Because he resigned and got out of there immediately, this will have a minimal impact on Christianity and on society in general. In fact, Ted has shown, through his resignation, that sin is WRONG.

How many of you sanctimonious non-Christians would do the same? Remember US Rep Gerry Studds? When he was censured by the House of Rep, he wouldn’t even face the Congress! He arrogantly “apologized” for an “error in judgement”! And how about US Rep Barney Frank? His live-in lover was running a prostitution ring from Frank’s residence!

Because he resigned and got out of there immediately, this will have a minimal impact on Christianity and on society in general. In fact, Ted has shown, through his resignation, that sin is WRONG.

How many of you sanctimonious non-Christians would do the same? Remember US Rep Gerry Studds? When he was censured by the House of Rep, he wouldn’t even face the Congress! He arrogantly “apologized” for an “error in judgement”! And how about US Rep Barney Frank? His live-in lover was running a prostitution ring from Frank’s residence!

“Halls of Shame” — Contemplating Haggard’s situation from a spiritual perspective.

http://www.spiritualcommentary.com

“Halls of Shame” — Contemplating Haggard’s situation from a spiritual perspective.

http://www.spiritualcommentary.com

I suppose the millions of conservatives who listen to Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, Michelle Malkin, Ted Haggard, and the many other religious leaders, poliical commentators who spend day after day spewing bigotry, prejudice are a “limited sample” in your opinion.

However, I know lots of conservatives, and none of them are the kind of person you describe.

Of couse, being conservative doens’t necessaily means they are completely stupid. They know better than to say those things out in the open.

But thanks to the anonimity this blog gives, conservatives can let themselves loose and unload all their anger. This is where they show who they really are.

And it’s not a pretty picture.

you owe it to yourself to get to know what mainstream conservatives think based on who they are, not based on what some public figure says.

So now I suppose you will say none of the people I mentioned before are mainstream.

If conservatives were not the bigoted, hateful, prejudiced lot they are, none of the hatemongers I listed would find an audience. Nobody would buy their books, listen to their radio shows, etc. Fact is they find plenty of people to buy their hateful message.

Don’t try to make me believe those people are not mainstream conservatives. Were that true, it would mean the loony fringe have taken over the airwaves, while not being disavowed by anyone else in the conservative movement. A hard to believe proposition.

you insist on blaming people who think differently than you of being mindless.

Not all the people who disagree with me are mindless. There is a special breed, however, who is.

There is a reason why Limbaugh calls his listeners dittoheads, and its not because he thinks his fans are open-minded free-thinkers.

We didn’t find WMDs.

The main justfication for the invasion and it doesn’t bother you.

You have to make mental gymnastics to justify your continuing support for the war. The Republican party has played on your fears and you still haven’t figure it out. Let me remind you Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

You claim to be pro-life, and you stand by the ongoing carnage -which includes many of the unborn you claim to care so deply about.

Of course, they’re dying over there. Maybe if Iraqis were Christians you’d find it in your heart to feel sorry for them.

so, first of all, to gorn – i appologize for any offense to you…
“blah blah blah” was just a way of saying i thought you were bloviating and pontificating unnecessarily about such a simple thing as “sin”…

i pointed out that sin is not always related to religion, and that is just a fact… “the seven deadly sins” may have been noted in the proverbs chapter of the bible, but PRIDE, ENVY, GLUTTONY, LUST, ANGER, GREED and SLOTH are sins that have no more to do with religion than any of all the “virtues” – except that they were all adopted by theologians for obvious purposes… philosophers have been weighing and discussing these issues forever…

as to my comment: sometimes i’m not sure which is more annoying – the religious or the atheistic proselytizers – i could make that clearer only by inserting “TO ME”, unnecessary because it is implied… and i don’t think it needs any further explanation really… those who may be offended – ALL the proselytizers, by the way, courtney – have their own reasons, but i won’t take responsibilty for that… i just think there is too much ridicule coming from both sides and each sounds like the other too much of the time…

i don’t consider myself a very religious person… i was raised in a catholic family, but found out very early about the hypocrisy therein…
i do consider myself a good enough person, trying to avoid those “deadly sins” and striving to involve the “virtues” as much as possible… i find it interesting that some have chosen to make personal attacks about my intelligence and motives – what sin would that be?
but, of course, coming from a poster who feels obliged to change his screen name to do so, says alot about that person…

i’m gone for the day, so have at it…
thanks again zooey, trueblue and even juan… g’day all…

(btw – the hbo rosanne show was a hoot… women of “a certain age” will appreciate it most, i suppose)
.

Forget Kerry, Saddam, etc. This is the only headline that needs attention as we approach the midterm election. Republicans, you beat the gay marriage, flag burning, abortion drum in 2004. Its our turn in 06. Reap what you sow!

However, tempted as I might be to consider it a triumph for the democrats’ cause, the bigger picture here is that he’s still human and capable of being forgiven.

So what if the Kid is never born!, Thats Life!

Imagine, Women, being pregnant your whole life to protect life!

Why soon mankind would be extinct to protect life!

Why didn’t we Liberals think of this earlier, why God doesn’t want to destroy mankind, Jesus Does! And Satan wants you to have more Sex because being immoral creates Life that the conservatives say they care about! But only until it is born then………….. who cares?
Not us Conservatives, By God your not gonna steal my money, thru the Government to protect life!!

Typical Bizarro conservative; only cares about life from conception to birth, after that it’s who cares? We don’t need no welfare, screw life! Who wants to adopt a bunch of black kids anyway…Madonna? right? So what if people die in war, they volunteered.

Life? Only in the mothers womb is it worth living!
[hOW bIZarre!]

Life? Bizarro Conservatives don’t care about innocent children dying in Iraq, after Birth why? Because they are not ‘Christian’? Because thet do not prey to the ‘Godhead’ you pray too?

Bizarro Conservatives are hypocrites and always will be because they follow two sets of laws and cannot differentiate one from the other. A belief becomes law and a law becomes a belief. They are irrational and for that reason we need to keep religion and government seperated, not because I am against religion, but because we cannot set one [any] religion above the law for the good of the Secular Democratic Society and the Salus Populi.

A) Thanks for being reasonable.

b) Sadly, your reasonableness is effectively irrelevant, since people like you arent in charge of anything. The fact you tow the line for people who ARENT so reasonable makes you guilty by association.

c) I honestly suggest you educate yourself better before you form opinions about, well.. anything. Theres a reason we havent been constantly attacked like Israel is. And its not the reason you think. The real reason is that while there are many, many people who hate us, there arent many people who hate us enough to take the trouble of coming over here and throwing thier lives away by committing acts of large scale violence. The only “sleeper cells” rounded up since 9-11 have been poseurs and wannabees. Look it up sometime. 9-11 was a grossly overexagerated, hyped, hollywood moment, callously exploited by the people you support to take us into some bizarro 1984 world where we will be at war until there are no more smelly men in caves that hate us. With all due repsect to everyone who died that day, americans kill more of their fellow americans EVERY WEEK than the terrorists did in 9-11. You’ve got as much chance as being hit by a terrorist attack as you do dying in your bathtub.

I dont think people like you ever, ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe, there isnt more terrorism over here because well, the bad guys aren’t numerous or powerful enough to accomplish much.

And can you please, oh please, give me a definition of how we will definitely and permanently “win” a “war” against smelly guys in caves? By killing more children and having thier dead faces plastered on TV sets across the arab world.

And what is your definition of “victory” in the war on terror? When 19 angry guys can never fly a plane into a building again? When acts of mass violence somehow become impossible to commit by non-state actors? Can we catch Osama and its done? I asked a supreme court justice how he would define “victory” in this so called “war” and he couldnt come up with an answer. Can you?

And as far as Iraq.. come on.. Hussien and Osama were.. ENEMIES>>>.. one was a radical islamist and the other was a secular dictator who gassed religious nuts and who was given the only WMD he ever had by US. (look it up sometime). Saddam had wealth and palaces.. he was brutal (maybe we are starting to see why), and he ruled with an iron fist, but he was NOT insane, and I and any other rational, informed person would realize that a man who values palaces and power is not going to sign his own death warrant by giving highly ineffective, overhyped WMD to a religious fanatic.

And theres a reason rumsfeld shook saddams hand and sold him gas. It was because reagan feared Iran gaining power in the region, just like they are gaining now. We’ve gotten rid of a mean, nasty, but secular dictator who did kooky things like give Iraqi women more rights than they have in almost any other ME country, and replaced him with equally viscious Iranian backed Islamists what openly advocate killing homosexuals and forcing women to wear veils.

I congratulate you trying to be reasonable, but until you start thinking logically, and start being able to see the world through other peoples eyes, without the facial Star Warsian notions of “good guys” and “bad guys”, your just as guilty as malignant leaders you support. I hate to tell you this, but there are no “good guys” in this world.

Ironic how you are so concerned with killing clumps of cells but yet you support a man who has killed tens of thousands of living breathing children with nerve receptors and pre-existing emotional attachments with his ill conceived war.

There were many, many, decent people who fueled the German war machine with their ignorance and naivette. Now people like you, good intentioned though they may be, are fueling another war machine, and yes, even though you can’t see it, there is blood on your hands as well, and another holocaust happening now, as we speak, in the middle east, because of the people you support. Where it will end, I dont know.
All I know is we’ve opened the gates of hell. And I’m proud to say I was speaking as loudly as I could against it from the very beginning.

BTW, conservative, I don’t mean to be generalizing about you. No doubt you’re a fine guy. As an example, I have a great friend who I have worked with for a decade who is a staunch evangelical conservative. We debate the issues all the time, always disagreeing at the beginning but generally finding common ground and consensus in the middle (what a concept!) He’s still a good guy, and so am I.

Thing is, he surrounds himself with the right wing hacks all day long, every day. You listen to hack talk radio all day and read nothing but one-sided blogs, it’s not drinking koolaid, but swimming in it.

It can take quite a bit of time and energy to hack away at the onion layers to find the decent guy underneath, but he’s there.

Problem is, he then goes right back to the same hacks and blogs, rebuilding the layers of skin again…

Well at least I can see where you stand. The central issue in your worldview is abortion.

My view of conservatives is somewhat broader than that. I view conservatives as fundamentally cautious in fiscal matters, restrained in foreign policy, and generally against government interference in business and private affairs. Conservatives by my definition would be against the unrestrained pork spending, huge deficits, attacks on the Constitution, and the unprovoked invasion of Iraq that are the hallmarks of this administration. Mainstream Christians by my definition would be against war without goal, torture, and lack of compassion to the downtrodden, again hallmarks of this administration.

If you place the abortion issue as preeminant above all of these issues, in my view you are not a conservative. Your description is suggestive that you are a religious moralist of some sort, which is not the equivalent of a conservative. Of course, you are free to label yourself any way you want, but that’s my view of it.

Regarding abortion, while personally I am not a fan of the pracitice (who is??), I am fundamentally suspicious of government attempts to legislate morality. Evidently you fall in the camp that is insistent on government interference. Thus, we are fundamentally opposed.

I will fight to the death for your right to promote your moral view, but I also will fight to the death to prevent the government from promoting it on your behalf.

In short, no I don’t think the current regime is using you for incompatible ends. I believe it is using traditional conservatives and mainstream Christians for incompatible ends, but from your description of yourself, you are neither a traditional conservative nor a mainstream Christian by my definition.

You still don’t mention any issues. You say they are using me for their own incompatible ends, but you don’t say what those ends are.

Maybe your saying because they take a stance on the gay marriage thing I should be worried about my religious freedoms?

As I said before, I don’t see that as a religious issue.

As far as voting Democratic because I disagree with the current regime…
1st I don’t vote solid democratic or republican. Truth be told, I vote to protect the innocent lives of babies who still reside in their mother’s wombs. I vote each issue and each candidate according to the merits and according to my convictions.
2nd I would never vote the lesser of two evils. That’s just not me.
3rd I don’t disagree, like you do, with much of what you call the regime.

As far as being Bush worshippers goes…
Again, you insist on blaming people who think differently than you of being mindless. That’s not progressive thinking. That’s not even an issue to discuss. I happen to agree with President Bush on many issues. I am appauled by some of the ways things have been handled by this administration. – Katrina aftermath topping my list. I disagree with you about the war in Iraq. While I hate that our country is at war, I believe we are correct in being there. I disagree that this war is a mistake. I hate that any of our soldiers has died, and every single life is important. Compare the number of deaths during Vietnam, the Korean War, WWII, WWI, the Civil War, the Revolutionary War. Every death is horrid, but as far as wars go, this war has a low body count. I honestly believe it is better that we are fighting in Iraq than in New York. I thought that 9/11 was the beginning of a new era in the US. I thought that we were going to become like Israel. Bombings in the malls, constant terror attacks. I mean, we are much larger than Israel, and it would be easy for terrorists to blend in. Yet 5 years later, there have been no attacks on the scale of 9/11. Some people say Iraq is a breeding ground for terrorism now. Well, it’s been going on for several years, and still no attack on our soil. We didn’t find WMDs. That doesn’t change the fact that Saddam had them in the past, used them on his own people, and vowed to take down America. Again, I honestly believe it was right to remove him from power.
As far as what is happening in Iraq now…
Think about what happened in countries after the fall of the USSR. There was terrible civil war, and genocide. The communist government, with all its problems, had kept the people from killing eachother. Hatred has been brewing over there in Iraq for hundreds of years. Where there is that kind of hatred, free people are going to take revenge and bloodshed is inevitable. Look at the bloodshed when America became a country. You have to remember that the British were our countrymen. Look at the bloodshed during our civil war. Bush didn’t create the hatred between the Sunni and Shiites. You can’t blame him for everything. It’s not good when anyone is killed, but I’d rather not have terrorist attacks on American soil. You have to agree that it’s amazing that there haven’t been any more in 5 years.

I have to go to bed. You may have already gone. Sorry there isn’t more time to go into more issues.

I hear you when you say the bloggers on here call conservative all these names because that’s been their experience, but if you’re going to call yourselves progressive thinkers, then it seems to me you shouldn’t generalize like that. It really comes across that you think anyone who disagrees with you is a moron.

The thing is, you have listened to a small, yet public, slice of conservative thought, and you assume anyone who has conservative beliefs must be mindless idiots.

Conservatives are not the problem. Christians are not the problem.

The problem is neocon fascists masquerading as normal conservatives, and Christo-fascists masquerading as normal Christians. These groups have hijacked the Republican party, cowed the Democratic party, and crushed dissenting voices for the past six years.

I feel that true conservatives and those who have respect for the Constitution would want to vote Democratic on Tuesday, not because they agree with Democrats, but because they agree with the current regime even less.

True conservatives believe in fiscal restraint, small government, and cautious foreign interventions. Ordinary Christians understand that government neutrality in matters of religion and morality is the best protection for their own religious rights. Look at what has happened over the past 6 years and it should be obvious that these ideals have been demolished.

These monsters who currently have a stranglehold on the government are using conservatives and using Christians for their own largely incompatible ends.

You should vote Democratic for that reason alone. If you can’t bring yourself to do that, then withhold your vote as a personal protest.

He was posting comments in the other thread about Haggard asking apologies from the ThinkProgress crowd because Haggard was such a man of god who had committed no sin and the whole thing was a liberal ploy, blah, blah, blah…

Well, Daryll? Care to retract your asinine comments? Care to show some intellectual honesty?

I won’t hold my breath…