Haggard Confesses: ‘I Am a Deciever and a Liar’
By on Nov 5th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Haggard Confesses: ‘I Am a Deciever and a Liar’
From a statement read in right-wing evangelical leader Ted Haggard’s church this morning: “The fact is I am guilty of sexual immorality, and I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar. There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring with it all of my adult life.” Haggard previously denied having sex with a male prostitute.
Video at HuffPost.
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Aaaamen
November 5th, 2006 at 12:39 pmare we supposed to feel bad for this guy? I mean, he goes around preaching hate and influencing other people to a hilt and then he himself is one immoral bastard. Honestly, I don’t even know how to react to this because it’s so insanely bizzare (although, I’m sure the circumstances exist much more than anyone of us would like to think about)
November 5th, 2006 at 12:41 pmI guess all that initial evangelical support from Dobson et al really backfired, huh?
November 5th, 2006 at 12:41 pm“I Am a Deciever and a Liar”
Rev. Ted Haggard
Yeah, you certainly are, Ted. Or is it Art? You forgot to mention drug using sexual pervert. You are also a typical, two-faced, rightwing, Republican-voting, hypocrite.
And I personally will add you are a cheezy-looking dipstick who squats to pee.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:41 pmWow.
Maybe the rest of the Rupublicans can follow his example and confess for thier sins.
George, Rummy, Cheney…. Is there anything that you have been hiding that you would feel better getting off your chest? We promise not to make too much of a big deal out of it.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:41 pmWhy do these neocons only take “responsibility” after their caught? And what does taking responsibility mean to them? Going to a luxury rehab resort? Living off their millions? Why doesn’t it ever mean compensating their victims?
November 5th, 2006 at 12:45 pmThis is a classic case of someone so feverently homophobic and a gay basher, because he hates himself for being a homosexual.
Look at all the damage his rage against himself has caused against innocent gay people who are just trying to make their way in this world. Look at all the discrimination this one man has caused because of his own self hatred.
I think behind every face that is a feverent gay basher is probably another closeted gay that hates themselves, this just proves that theory.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:47 pmHaggard still doesn’t get it.
His lifelong sexual “problem” is that he’s gay. He needs to stop pretending to be something he’s not, and accept himself for who he is.
His life won’t be the same as before, and I’m thinking that’s really not a bad thing in the long run, but it could be better.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:48 pmthere still should be some semblance of respect for the fact that he finally DID thoroughly admit what was going on without equivocating or minimizing. Instead of having to swear this one off into the helplessly crazy bin, to an extent this one came down to earth, when many other’s haven’t.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:48 pmFrom now on I will automatically assume all the right wing blowhards whp screams loudly about the homosexual tide are closet queers. That seems to be a safe assumption.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:48 pmPot, Kettle, Kettle, Pot
How do al of the Hypo-christians feel today.
I’m glad that my Grand-Mother is not here to see what is being done in her faiths name.
RIP
SGT Stephen R Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (Stryker)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
Died because Saddam had in his focus the “Preparation of Nuclear Weapons”
Or as the President of these DIVIDED States of America so eloquently calls him, comma # 1492
November 5th, 2006 at 12:51 pm….
TP, this was looking to be a boring day. Thanks for the fun.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:53 pmHopefully this “shocking” announcement will wake up some of these sheep who give money to these creeps evey week. Hopefully they will realize that gay people are not immoral but hypocrisy and lying is. Perhaps, just a few, may even realize that being gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, and entire range in which we humans express our sexuality, isn’t a “sexual problem”. People are just people and our sexual expression is just “normal”. Attention homophobes – THERE IS NO NORMAL!
Perhaps if Haggard prays hard enough, Bush and Co. will come out and confess their crimes. Imagine Bush reading this statement “…I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar.” Bush wouldn’t confess a spelling error on a grocery list.
Although I wish Haggard could just find that God (however you define that) doesn’t give a f#@k what he does in the sack with another consenting adult, at least he has the guts to confess this all to tens of millions of people.
After reading about the polls this morning coupled with this piece of news, I guess am feeling optimistic. It is going to be a good day on Tuesday.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:54 pmIs it too soon to set him up with Mark Foley? I think they’d make a cute couple.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:54 pmColorado jyms- #5
Well said.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:56 pmFar be it from me to tapdance on the grave of Ted Haggard’s career…ah, Hell…who am I kidding??
May you all be enjoying this even half as much as I am…. ;p)
November 5th, 2006 at 12:57 pmSadly this seems very typical of the supposed Christian Conservatives, hate what you are, deny when caught, then step down and disappear, when you cannot deny anymore.
As for him and Mr. Foley dating, I have to say that the former Rev. Haggard, is a bit old for Mr. Foley’s tastes.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:59 pmHypocrisy runs deep in illusionary morals
November 5th, 2006 at 1:01 pmVote out the GOP on Nov.7.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:01 pmStop the Church/State takeover.
It’s all hypocracy anyway.
also at huffpost
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-goldstein/whos-to-blame-for-pastor_b_33279.html
lordy!
November 5th, 2006 at 1:01 pmThe people really hurt by this pervert are his five children and his wife. They are the only ones I feel sorry for in all of this. For his drug use and possession and his lying, he deserves to be sent to prison where no doubt he will be well received.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:02 pmLesson: just be suspicious of ANYONE who rages against something too much….this hypocrisy is getting tiring. Is it just me, or does it seem like being on the “right” is turning out to be merely a cloaking device???
November 5th, 2006 at 1:04 pmWait a second – “repulsive and dark”?
If Haggard found everything he was doing to be so “repulsive” then why did he do any of it? I for one don’t get sexually aroused by things that repulse me. This confession, aside from its obvious admissions, isn’t even coherent.
It sounds like another in his self-admitted trail of “lies and deceit”.
This man is a pathological liar. He keeps on lying even as he admits he is a liar. His trail of blatently obvious lies is on display for everyone to see. That alone ought to be telling regarding not only the immorality of Haggard but everyone who flocked to him when he was in his church.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:05 pm#14 & 17…ROTFLMAO!!!
November 5th, 2006 at 1:06 pmThat is pathetic and sad. pathetisad? Sad for his wife that she married this hate filled pathetic loser.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:10 pmA man of God and a Paster to the President. Now we know why George W. Bush lies it’s the teaching of the church leaders. How do we teach our children to tell the truth when our religious leaders/President continue to lie until they get caught. The church sould be asking the families about their kids involvement with Paster Haggard as they should with fingers Foley. Yes I understand the friends/family feeling sorry for the sinner but he took their hearts and money and used it for sin. I wonder if he gave some meth to President Bush during those visits to the White House. Americans should learn from this when you use God’s Name for sin, greed and power Satan is in control. Beware of the down fall as God takes back control. Look for others to have the hand of God touch them in ways we could never understand.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:11 pmI DO FEEL SORRY FOR THIS GUY.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:16 pmHe is part of the human condition : any one who hates himself for his condition whatever that condition is , sexual , religious , spiritual ,or physical is bound to condemn all with the same conditions .
We know many who respond in the same manner . Bush , limbough , hannety dodson etc… etc… alas too many of them too may emotionally sick who can ply their deseases on so many just for profit . This corporations who give them a platform should be ashamed .
I am going to say something unpopular here:
The man is discredited, his preaching has been discredited, and any future preaching against gays will always be discredited by his own hypocrisy, and that is enough. The dog is down, we don’t have to kick it anymore.
Besides, eventually the right will start calling us homophobes if this nonsense keeps on much longer. It isn’t like Haggard diddled little kids.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:20 pmI dont understand why anyone would be so shocked about this. Jer 23 clearly states that pastors lead flocks astray. I dont even bother going to church because the very people up there on the pulpit preaching to the masses are doing evey sin imaginable. Besides I can read the Bible for myself!
November 5th, 2006 at 1:20 pmOf course the real “sexual problem” he has is one of self hate and denial. He’s a clone of Roy Cohn. He’s a gay man bent on destoying all other gay people because he hates what he is so very much. But to his credit, he is right on when he calls himself a Deciever and a Liar.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:21 pmOh Daryll…. Where’s that apology you owe TP?
November 5th, 2006 at 1:22 pmTrue colors revealed.
Lets see your smarmy smug grin again as you lied in front of your wife and 5 CHILDREN. Lets see your Pious condescending glare as you jusged homosexuals as deviants headed for Hell.
Sack of Sh*t is too coward that he has someone else read his apology
True Christian Taliban
November 5th, 2006 at 1:22 pmI hate to say it #13, but they won’t wake up. They gave money to Swaggart, Baker, and others we never even heard of. They gave money to Haggard. Now they’ll pray for him, then find someone else to give their money to. Someone else who considers free thinking to be immoral. Someone else who feeds their hate.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:25 pmI completely agree with Bruce. The man is a victim of the branch of organized religion he was born into. They told him his entire life that homosexuality was deviant and evil and was to be hated. He spent his life in denial because that is what he was taught a person with integrity would do.
Instead of attacking Revend Ted for finally cracking from the pressure, we should use this as an example of what a culture breeds when they force humans to live in the reality that they wish existed rather than the one that does.
And the reality that exists is that gay people are not evil.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:25 pmIt isn’t like Haggard diddled little kids.
Comment by Bruce Gorton —
No, he just diddled with their immature, young minds. Did you see Jesus Camp?
November 5th, 2006 at 1:28 pmI wonder how he was able to conceive 5 children… Was that what the meth was for?
November 5th, 2006 at 1:28 pmAlmost makes me wish that someone could prove that Jesus was gay.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:31 pmFollow the 3
=8^]
[I agree with Bruce Lets move on and let this mans [Haggard] conscience do it’s justice.]]
November 5th, 2006 at 1:34 pmAS-Colo
It is because he really believes it is evil. He is as brainwashed as those that follow him, and this is a part of himself which he loaths and is incapable of understanding. The man sees it as his flaw, when his real flaw is his need to cover it by projecting his worst instincts onto others.
The man is human, just like everyone else – and given time he can be brought to the real truth, that the God he has tortured and damned himself for does not exist, that all of that self loathing that has spilled onto others was for nothing. I pity him, not for his downfall, but that he had to hate so hard to try to hide it from himself.
If there is a hell, it is contained within the mind of a person who hides behind hate. If there is a heaven, it is in the mind of a person who doesn’t have to.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:34 pmThere are others on his side of the aisle that could say the same.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:40 pmGo ahead and speak up fellas.
There are others on his side of the aisle that could say the same.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:40 pmGo ahead and speak up fellas.
Even after he got caught he was still lying. Now all of a sudden he’s truthful because the evidence against him is so strong that his lies can’t hold up to scrutiny anymore. He is not a total victim of a hateful religion. He is an adult and could still make conscious choices. He could have been honest with himself at any time, not just when he got caught. He totally preyed on other people because he liked the millions, the spotlight, and the access to the White House. Even now, he won’t admit he’s gay. He’ll go into rehab and come out a “cured” homosexual and become the president of Exodus, making even more millions.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:42 pmAnother gay, anti-gat crusader fails the Republicans’ own Boy Scout Test.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:43 pmIf there is a hell, it is contained within the mind of a person who hides behind hate. If there is a heaven, it is in the mind of a person who doesn’t have to.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — November 5, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
Once again, excellent post…
November 5th, 2006 at 1:43 pmOur Pastor today for the sermon focused on Mark’s Gospel about ‘love your neighbor’. This to me is what the conservative slant of religion, tolerance and love for fellow human beings goes lacking. I simply do not want to be part of a religion that hates in any form. It is not what Christ was teaching in my opinion.
Tuesday’s national referendum will surely be on Iraq, but I think genuinely people want to feel better about themselves and to uplift not only Americans in need by any ‘neighbor’ in need. It’s who we are at the core….I firmly believe that.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:49 pmRepublican Christian forgiveness calls for an endless supply of love and compassion for the fallen Republican faithful. It also calls for a never ending tirade of hate, venom and neverending remembrance of Democratic sins….witness Barney Frank, Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd.
IOIYAAR.
-GSD
November 5th, 2006 at 1:56 pmBoo hoo, I have sinned. Spare me.
1. Is there a transcript? I’ve yet to see anything where he says “Yes I had sex with a male hooker.” Sexual immorality covers a lot of ground.
2. If he has said “Yes I had sex with a male hooker,” then this is the same thing as a vocal rascist caught banging an African-American hooker. Do we say “Aww, the poor man, he must really be black,” or “Dear me, he’s just a victim of his upbrining”?
Only if we’re idiots.
I hate it when creeps like this get one ounce of pity (or Meth) because they get their kicks with other men. Save your sympathy for the people who live in fear of fundy wingnuts smashing out the windows of their homes. The people who can’t visit a spouse in all but law in the hospital because they aren’t “really married.” Who’ve had the crap kicked out of them by “God fearing” bigots. I don’t care who (or what) Haggard screwed. His fetish got him in trouble and it won’t be any fun now that everyone knows. That’s the only reason he’s sorry, if he’s sorry at all.
November 5th, 2006 at 1:56 pmHeh, the only thing harder than trying to figure out republicans, is trying to figure out why some of my posts disappear, reappear, and disappear again. Kinda freaky…
November 5th, 2006 at 1:56 pmAlmost makes me wish that someone could prove that Jesus was gay.
It would be hilarious just to see the reactions on the faces of these hypochristian f*ckers!!!
November 5th, 2006 at 2:02 pmI agree with unbelievable: The Christian culture teaches people to be ashamed of their own nature and to hide behind a veneer of disgust for the very acts they’re committing. While I know that a majority of male Christians routinely indulge in pornography and masturbation, they’re expected to show public disdain for these actions, rather than admit that they enjoy them.
Ted Haggard is no different, except that the pressure was even greater upon him to hide his desires, and this pressure likely forced him deeper into those “sins.” Of course, that doesn’t get him off the hook, and he went quite far in propogating the harmful culture he was a victim of.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:03 pmTalk about mass suicides!!!
November 5th, 2006 at 2:05 pmWhen will the faithful awaken to the clay feet of their idols?
November 5th, 2006 at 2:05 pmThe hypocritical leaders continue to demonstrate their deceit and lies, then beg forgiveness.
The christian faith teaches that you are saved by faith, and faith alone.
In other words, if you believe you are saved by jesus, you will be rewarded in heaven. So their leaders repeat this so often, they believe they are free to do whatever they want and they’ll see jesus in heaven later.
It doesn’t matter to them that they have perverted their own message – they have the get out of jail free card.
That’s one of the many reasons why I think religion is demagoguery, preying upon the superstitious.
Haggard, his Meth, and his Men!
November 5th, 2006 at 2:06 pmHow many times I gotta say it…These idiots don’t serve the God I serve. They serve the God of politics.
Practical politics consists of ignoring facts. — Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
We need a list of outed gay republicans. Somebody call Jeff Gannon get his list of clients. I even suspect Rove is a lover of the anus. Did anybody see how he was dancing around like a fairy in the documentary, “Bush’s brain” when the reporters were trying to hit him with the snowballs? Of course, this will all be washed up under the bridge cause’ now Saddam is going to die. Two more news cycles and we will be going into the election with exactly what they want America to hear and see before they go into the polls on Tuesday.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:09 pmThey seem to be following a Hegelized/Schmitt version of Jesus that I don’t recognize either…In fact, I don’t know them at all. I don’t recognize them in any way….
November 5th, 2006 at 2:12 pm#39 If there is a hell, it is contained within the mind of a person who hides behind hate. If there is a heaven, it is in the mind of a person who doesn’t have to.
Comment by Bruce Gorton
I really like that statement.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:13 pmTom Delay said it best:
“Just think of what we could accomplish…if we spent less time on our soapboxes and more time on our knees.”
November 5th, 2006 at 2:13 pmIn 10 mins: Bush on TV
He will defend the death sentence for Saddam Hussein.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:14 pmIs it just blamable self-justification for a war with bad reasons or is it just verdict against a cruel and inhuman dictator who was unknown to human mankind?
Saddam shouted “traitors” and “long live the people” only seconds after the judge said hanging. The judge that is in place for the other judge.
You guys just don’t understand. But neither do most Christians/evangelicals. If you did you wouldn’t be that surprised. Being a pastor doesn’t make you Jesus Christ, you’re still a sinning human. People that get caught up on hipocracy just don’t get it. Its not about them its about yourself. Theres no hate in their agenda. Anyone who uses this to derail the conservative or republican groups just doesn’t see the whole picture. The biggest test of a liberal’s agenda is when they have children, if they past that test they’re children will fail. Everytime someone does something you don’t want your kids to do, the chances are that much more that they will do it, younger and younger. Plain and simple.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:19 pmTime for Ted to get honest and accept the gift of his sexuality as a gift from God and stop denying it. That is the worst part. He sees sin where there is none. The real sin is the lying and drug abuse, and that should be forgiven. Of course his church has expunged him from their web site already. So much for forgiveness.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:20 pmAmericans should learn from this when you use God’s Name for sin, greed and power Satan is in control. Beware of the down fall as God takes back control. Look for others to have the hand of God touch them in ways we could never understand.
Comment by Jackie
Follow the 3
=8^]
[I agree with Bruce Lets move on and let this mans [Haggard] conscience do it’s justice.]]
I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD EXPRESS WHATEVER THEY FEEL…WHY ARE YOU SO UPSET BY OTHERS WANTING TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES? WHY DO YOU THINK EVERYONE IS GOING TO STOP TALKING BECAUSE YOU THINK ITS ENOUGH ALREADY? LET EVERYONE TALK…IF YOU HAVE AN OPINION GREAT BUT DON”T TELL PEOPLE TO STOP WHEN EVERYONE CLEARLY WANTS TO GO ON
November 5th, 2006 at 2:24 pmYou cannot seperate the sin from the sinner. Period. Isn’t this the way they derailed Clinton? I use the same yardstick they used against him agains this idiot.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:25 pmWhat is the plan for when the Republicans steal this midterm through the voting machines? Here in Upstate New York, several loyal Democrats have said they will defect from the party if we allow it to happen a third time.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:28 pmComment by publickindness — November 5, 2006 @ 2:13 pm
It would be hilarious just to see the reactions on the faces of these hypochristian f*ckers!!!
Comment by Lee — November 5, 2006 @ 2:02 pm
And, it might finally get us some peace and quiet from those wishing to force their religion upon us…
November 5th, 2006 at 2:39 pmAt least he had the balls to say “Im a deceiver and a liar”. How sweet those words would be from Dumya and Darth!
November 5th, 2006 at 2:41 pmWhile I know that a majority of male Christians routinely indulge in pornography and masturbation, they’re expected to show public disdain for these actions, rather than admit that they enjoy them.
Comment by Squints — November 5, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
Great analogy… and we’re only talking about looking at pictures of naked people and touching oneself. If they are willing to deny and condemn these “minor” natural inclinations, I’m not surprised when they condemn even more loudly the ones they deem really bad.
We’ve raised generations of liars. It’s because we punish honesty. Think about it…
November 5th, 2006 at 2:42 pm#31 un -
November 5th, 2006 at 2:43 pmIsn’t it convenient for Daryll to be absent today? I’m sure he is at church, trying to figure out how he could have gotten this so wrong!
Now is the time for all bible thumbers to say:
“TED WHO”…. falwall just did…next?
November 5th, 2006 at 2:44 pm59 – josh T”he biggest test of a liberal’s agenda is when they have children, if they past that test they’re children will fail.”
I hereby nominate this post as the most gibberishy of the day.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:46 pm“Just think of what we could accomplish…if we spent less time on our soapboxes and more time on our knees.â€
Comment by AvengingAngel — November 5, 2006 @ 2:13 pm
So, you’re advocating blowjobs? :)
Actually, prayer doesn’t change anything. Actions do. You can certainly prya before or acfter you’ve been pro-active, as I don’t think it matters one way or another – but far too many people substitute prayer for action, and that has gotten them no where.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:46 pmIt sounds like we have some hurting people who think that identifiying with a political party, church, or an organization makes you somehow a very bad person or a very good person. I hate to break it to you, it doesn’t work that way. “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”, if it wasn’t for the forgiveness of sins found only in Jesus Christ, not in a six pack of beer, saving the spotted owl, driving a Lexus, or bashing others to make ourselves feel better, we are all “up the creek without a paddle”. Let’s pray for Ted’s children and his wife… these people are going to grow up with a lot to face and they are the real victims here.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:46 pmPlain and simple.
Comment by josh — November 5, 2006 @ 2:19 pm
Actually josh, your post was neither plain nor simple…
November 5th, 2006 at 2:48 pmIt is one thing to sin. It is another to outright lie and put the very people you sleep with under the political bus.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:51 pmI emailed this to a friend last Thursday:
If God is omni-present, then God is all genders.
If God is Love, then Love is not gender-specific, because God is all genders.
The Biblical prohibition against homosexuality is a translation of a prohibition against pederasts, men who use boys as sex slaves. The change in translation is enlightening, for the Church railed against homosexuality while harboring pedarists.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:51 pmIsn’t it convenient for Daryll to be absent today? I’m sure he is at church, trying to figure out how he could have gotten this so wrong!
Comment by RUCerious — November 5, 2006 @ 2:43 pm
Yes, quiet convenient indeed… I’m sure that if he ever shows up again, he will either revert to using his middle name, or he will wait until the matter is old news.
You really think Daryll ‘figures’? :)
November 5th, 2006 at 2:51 pmLet’s pray for Ted’s children and his wife… these people are going to grow up with a lot to face and they are the real victims here.
Comment by Reality Check — November 5, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
Praying will do them no good. Let’s get them therapy in a support group of other people who have gay fathers. Let’s DO something more helpful than ‘wish’ them better. Nice sentiment, but it doesn’t work.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:54 pmSays the bible: What do we do if thine eyes offend thee? Pluck them out.
Better hide the knives in the Haggard house because it looks like his weenie has offended thee.
-GSD
November 5th, 2006 at 2:57 pmThe White House is already distancing themselves from Haggard, as they did Ken Lay and Jack Abramoff. But in a Time Magazine Cover Story:
http://www.tedhaggard.com/time.jsp
November 5th, 2006 at 2:59 pmhttp://www.time.com/time/covers/1101050207/photoessay/11.html
hate breeds hate, bittterness is a symptom of hate, wasn’t it Jesus who said “he who is without sin, cast the first stone…”?
November 5th, 2006 at 2:59 pmhalllllllalllluah, jesus christ, almighty, glorious god, the glory of all glory, man of magic, aaaaaaamen.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:04 pmhe is now saved.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:04 pmWell said, Bruce Gorton & Briseadh na Faire.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:04 pmWhat I find most amazing about this is that Haggard preached the word of god for millions. People accepted his word as a preacher as the word of god. They accepted him. They loved him. They trusted his guidance to help them in their own lives. He probably helped many. But once it is found out that he has had homosexual relations all that get sthrown out the window by these people. Its like he never existed anymore to them. These god following people have shunned a man that they onced loved and will cast him aside as easy as a used napkin. Granted Haggard was an idiot to fight against things that he did himself but this to act the way this church is acting is below anything Haggard has done……godly speaking.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:13 pmColorado Springs’ New Life Church just announced that it has fired Pastor Ted Haggard for his “sexually immoral conduct.” The much publicized meth and gay hooker scandal has elicited a little bit of soul searching and a lot hemming and hawing from Haggard’s fellow Evangelical leaders, but perhaps the most ridiculous response came yesterday from Pastor Mark Driscoll of Seattle’s Mars Hills mega-church-wannabe.
“Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors’ wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband’s sin, but she may not be helping him either.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-goldstein/whos-to-blame-for-pastor_b_33279.html
November 5th, 2006 at 3:14 pmThis is a situation where a married man paid for sex outside the marriage, whether it is called massage or not, begs the point. Prostitution ought not to be confused with marriage, for they are two separate things. In western civilization female prostitution and heterosexual marriage have co-existed side by side for millenia.
So, can someone please tell me how male prostitution, allegedly enhanced by the use of meth, how it promotes the agenda of gay marriage? Because I don’t see it! I think it hurts it. I agree with all the bloggers I’ve read who say the Jones/Haggard scandal presents the seedier side, overshadowing the beauty of same-sex couples — those who love and commit till death do them part. Prostitution is prostitution, marriage is marriage — so come on everyone, and the twain shall never meet.
The wife and the five children, innocent victims, have just had their lives torn apart by two men. By one man who can’t control his sexual desires, and by another man who gets paid to scintillate another man’s desires. Sheesh, this is really really sad. I believe the core issue here is self centeredness and false ego enlargement.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:19 pmShouldn’t the trolls be out of church by now? On both coasts?
**crickets chirping**
November 5th, 2006 at 3:20 pmShouldn’t the trolls be out of church by now? On both coasts?
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 3:20 pm
I saw Hendler on another post – the one about Saddam.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:25 pmI believe the core issue here is self centeredness and false ego enlargement.
Comment by Skyridge — November 5, 2006 @ 3:19 pm
The core issue here is the hate-mongering and guilt his religion put upon him by denying him the right to be who he is – gay.
If someone told you it was wrong to go to the bathroom (a natural urge), could you hold it in permanently? You can no more stop people from sexual urges either.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:28 pmI saw Hendler on another post – the one about Saddam.
Comment by unbelievable
He’s still over there, talking to himself, I guess.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:29 pmA republican hypocrite arsehole who actually ADMITS something?!
Took him long enough though.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:32 pmHe’s still over there, talking to himself, I guess.
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 3:29 pm
We should invite him over here… :)
November 5th, 2006 at 3:33 pmPlease; try to put yourself in his shoes. Can you imagine the pain and humiliation this man is feeling right now? Whether we agree with him politically, socially or theologically, he remains a human being deeply in need of love and respect at this moment. No need to pile on.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:38 pmI do feel bad for him.
Homosexuality is just as natural as heterosexuality.
Haggard is a victim of the religious culture that is convinced otherwise. I have no doubt that he believed everything he preached. And that’s why I feel sorry for him.
The letter that he wrote (the entire text is available at the denver post page) firmly asserts that “sensuality” itself is a sin. That belief is the true sickness here.
It is not his homosexuality that has caused him so much pain in life. It is his belief that this is an evil dirty thing. And the letter just shows that he still believes that more than ever.
It’s very sad.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:38 pmWe should invite him over here… :)
Comment by unbelievable
I wouldn’t…
November 5th, 2006 at 3:41 pmrobert I agree with you to a point, however the pain and humilation this man is feeling, is caused by himself. He and those like him, want to make homosexuality illegal, and eliminate, or “cure” homosexuals. If our society was able to get over the issue, and noone cared who you prefered then there would be no shame and no humility.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:42 pmThe tragic thing is Ted Haggart still considers his lusting for sex with other men as a perversion/sin, but his hypocrisy as a pastor preaching hatred for Gays, and his own acts with a male escort, are the real sin!
November 5th, 2006 at 3:43 pmHe should accept the fact that he is Gay, be proud of it, and not live a phony life of shame! If he tries to cure his homosexuality, then he will fail and end up committing suicide, so he needs to admit being Gay and stop using crystal meth as a bad habit that harms himself!
The letter that he wrote (the entire text is available at the denver post page) firmly asserts that “sensuality†itself is a sin. That belief is the true sickness here.
…
It’s very sad.
Comment by Paul Jackson
Agreed. That is extremely sad. I wonder if he’ll ever be able to accept his sexuality…
November 5th, 2006 at 3:45 pmI wouldn’t…
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
He won’t come.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:47 pmTed still doesn’t get it. What is so “repulsive and dark” about him is not his same-sex attraction, nor is it his drug abuse; it is the many layers of lies and deception he has erected, the hypocrisy of presenting himself as a paragon of family values, and his ardent opposition to gays. Even now, with his half-hearted confession that has followed a chain of lies until he was backed into a corner and could lie no more, he still insists on vilifying homosexuals. This is not taking responsiblity for your actions, Ted. This is realizing you’ve been caught and trying to minimize the deleterious consequences to yourself. I don’t care that you had sex with a male prostitute and used meth (though that behavior was terribly unjust to your wife and kids). What bothers me is that you continued to deny everything with that self-righteous, shit eating grin of yours.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:48 pmThe reality is that once you’ve been culturally indocrinated into a belief system, it is very difficult and rare that people escape it.
For Rev. Ted to suddenly accept himself is unlikely. I think it is only possible if he seeks therapy from non-religious sources and surrounds himself with people who accpet him as he is. My guess is that after being a preacher, he won’t and at some point now the road, the news will be even worse than this…
November 5th, 2006 at 3:51 pmAnyone else find it highly ironic that the least forgiving and most condemning commentary in here comes from those who claim to be Christians?
November 5th, 2006 at 3:54 pmHe won’t come.
Comment by unbelievable
He probably won’t be here either. :)
November 5th, 2006 at 3:55 pmi before e except after c……
November 5th, 2006 at 3:57 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinded_by_the_Right
“Blinded by the Right: The Conscience of an Ex-Conservative (ISBN 1-4000-4728-5) is a 2002 book written by former conservative journalist David Brock detailing his departure from the conservative movement. It is also the story of his coming out as a gay man. In the book, he recounts visiting gay bars with Matt Drudge and other conservatives.”
This was the conservative columnist who tried to undo the Clinton presidency… notice a thread here…
November 5th, 2006 at 3:58 pmPoor little “man”. He’s going to burn in HELL for sure. But since sodomy is welcome there, good for him!
November 5th, 2006 at 4:00 pmIronic yes, surprised…not so much.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:01 pmIf someone told you it was wrong to go to the bathroom (a natural urge), could you hold it in permanently? You can no more stop people from sexual urges either.
Comment by unbelievable — November 5, 2006 @ 3:28 pm
I would need to defer to a scientist to adequately respond to the issue your comment raises. Your assumption that sexual desire is a bodily function equivalent to kidney elimination, at least I posit, may prove to be a gross oversimplification of the process that actually occurs when engaging sexual desire.
But what I would posit, assuming your assumption that kidney elimination and sexual orgasm are actually the same function, what I would posit is this: It would behoove gays to legalize prostitution in order to ensure health standards are attained to prevent infection of the bladder, instead of seeking to legalize marriage as an institution. Marriage is not about kidney elimination. Marriage is a legal status whose goal is to promote the interests of society, enhancing social stability and protecting the interests of children. Prostitution has not ever been considered to be in the interests of society. Prostitution spreads disease and weakens the marriage institution, causing social instability which harms the child.
This is why this scandal hurts the cause of gay marriage: there has been confusion in the Jones/Haggard scandel between the concept of male prostitution and the concept of gay marriage. In other words, to speak of gay marriage in the same breath as male prostitution, demeans and undermines the institution of marriage. It makes it look like to the public that gays want to institutionalize prostitution by calling it ‘marriage’, and getting health benefits, insurance, etc., to bout.
Here is one of the confused assumptions expressed in blogs:
If gay marriages were legalized, Ted Haggard would be openly gay, would divorce his wife and marry a man. But this is like saying that a heterosexual man who visits a female prostitute is going to leave his wife and children. It doesn’t happen that way. It is far more complex than bladder elimination.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:01 pmHas anyone ventured over to Freeper Land to see what sort of bile they’re spewing?
November 5th, 2006 at 4:04 pmHaggard is such a sleazebag that he’ll get “cured” and then make more millions preaching that gays can be cured. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of this slimeball.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:07 pmIronic yes, surprised…not so much.
Comment by Dog_named_Boo — November 5, 2006 @ 4:01 pm
I noticed that even the most sympathetic Christians still fell into the “hate the sin” trap. I know I shouldn’t be surprised, but the longer I’m an Atheist, the more their inability to sympathize with others shocks me.
It seems to obvious that he was a product of his environment, and that his anti-gay mentality is the result of his self-loathing. How does that evoke anything but pity for the man? And a desire to see him get help accepting himself.
If you don’t first love yourself, you cannot love anyone else.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:10 pm[...] This video is kind of old but relevant. For those who don’t know Richard Dawkins has just published “The God Delusion” and Ted Haggard was just busted for having drug fueled sex with male prostitutes (kind of goes against his evangelical christian faith)… How the mighty have fallen. Update: Haggard just confessed. [...]
November 5th, 2006 at 4:14 pmI would need to defer to a scientist to adequately respond to the issue your comment raises.
I’ll help you out. You cannot.
Your assumption that sexual desire is a bodily function equivalent to kidney elimination, at least I posit, may prove to be a gross oversimplification of the process that actually occurs when engaging sexual desire.
Not really. I’ve experienced both urges. Ignoring the need to pee is a lot harder.
But what I would posit, assuming your assumption that kidney elimination and sexual orgasm are actually the same function,
Huh? I didn’t say orgasm. I said the urge to have sex. Those are not the same things. Are you about to set up a strawman… ?
what I would posit is this: It would behoove gays to legalize prostitution in order to ensure health standards are attained to prevent infection of the bladder, instead of seeking to legalize marriage as an institution.
A pretty scary strawman at that. Dude, I’m not sure if I’m amused or scared that you’re saying this…
It’s like you don’t get that gay people love just like you love . Their love isn’t deviant.
Marriage is not about kidney elimination.
This strawman is getting more and more bizarre…
Marriage is a legal status whose goal is to promote the interests of society, enhancing social stability and protecting the interests of children.
Then explain the nearly 60% divorce rate, extra-marital affairs and associates impacts on children growing up in such environments… No marriage is not what you’ve suggested. Nice fairytale though…
Prostitution has not ever been considered to be in the interests of society. Prostitution spreads disease and weakens the marriage institution, causing social instability which harms the child.
I suppose you have valid, non-religious proof that actual Scientists approve of? Because I’m skeptical.
If gay marriages were legalized, Ted Haggard would be openly gay, would divorce his wife and marry a man. But this is like saying that a heterosexual man who visits a female prostitute is going to leave his wife and children. It doesn’t happen that way. It is far more complex than bladder elimination.
Comment by Skyridge — November 5, 2006 @ 4:01 pm
I’m not sure how your though process thought that was even a remotely logical or relevant argument… but you clearly are under the influence of an excessive amount of denial.
I’d attempt to explain it to you, but I understand it’s pointless… Sheesh.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:19 pmHas anyone ventured over to Freeper Land to see what sort of bile they’re spewing?
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 4:04 pm
No, but I can guess that he has evolved into Satan trying to fool the true Christians, or something in nonsensical like that… I’m pretty sure it’s not compassion or sympathy.
But, hey, I dare you to check it out : )
November 5th, 2006 at 4:21 pmBut, hey, I dare you to check it out : )
Comment by unbelievable
I’m not contaminating my computer with that mess…
I double dog dare YOU to check it out!
November 5th, 2006 at 4:24 pmToday’s church service at New Life Church was tremendously spirit -filled. It was our celebration of God and how great and wonderful and loving he is. Pastor Haggard is just like every other man who is in the midst of crisis – in the midst of fighting against a sinful life. We are praying for him. He never preached hatred – not once – but he did teach from the Bible- God’s word – that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination to God. These are God’s words, not Pastor Haggard’s. If you take issue with them, you need to take it up with God. It is wrong for people to condemn this man. It is wrong to judge him so harshly, especially when we are all sinners and all have our personal struggles. I hope his courageous admission will help others see that God will not turn from anyone – that He will love and embrace anyone who seeks him earnestly. Perhaps the public thinks it was Mike Kelly who exposed the truth, but we in the Church of Christ know that God will reveal all in His time, and, in Ted Haggard’s case, it was now. I will never take pleasure in anyone’s downfall or struggle, I ask you to do the same. One day you will stand in the midst of your crisis and hope no one will be there to spurn or ridicule you. I pray that Pastor Haggard can fight the demons he has within and win the battle that the devil is so fervently waging with him now.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:26 pmIf anyone thinks preachers, pastors, priests don’t think about sex or masturbate you are dead wrong. Every man that has lived is incapable of ignoring women. Infact if you were trying to practice chasity that would make you more sexually driven, but this man had a wife, so think of how hard it is for preists. There are great men in the preisthood but the majority are crazy loons.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:29 pmI double dog dare YOU to check it out!
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 4:24 pm
Why, what do they do to your computer over there? Hijack your IP?
I TRIPLE dog dare you to go…
November 5th, 2006 at 4:29 pmIt is entirely probable that if homosexual marriage was legal and acceptable, that many homosexuals would not have gotten into heterosexual marriages in the first place. By having the option of a committed homosexual marriage, they could avoid the heartache to themselves as well as the heartache to the wives and children of the heterosexual marriage used in a futile attempt to “pass”.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:30 pmHey Nancy,
I haven’t condemned the man once. There’s nothing wrong with Pastor Haggard. He’s simply gay. The only demons he has to battle are self-hatred and judgment — from people not in the liberal community.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:31 pmIf you take issue with them, you need to take it up with God.
Comment by Nancy — November 5, 2006 @ 4:26 pm
There is no god Nancy. just people. The best thing you can do for that man is accept him the way he is and stop torturing him to think he is evil and must hate himself.
You want to be kind? Stop worrying about your religious rules and face reality.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:31 pmthis is perfect for all the hopeless followers of arrogant, self-absorbed leaders. they are all suspect and certainly they all suck. …and the followers are all typically stupid. from swaggart to bakker to any form of organized religion – they’re all as bad as any other corrupt entity.
whatever. they can all rot in hell. …oh, yeah, there IS no hell.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:32 pmRepulsive and Dark? Yup, the closet is both of those things.
However, Ted Haggard made it clear in the remainder of his statement that he intends to stay firmly in the closet. He’s working with leaders of the church to begin a process of healing. LOL, ya, that’ll work…….
Ted, you don’t need to be healed from being gay. How many thousands of men (some much better than you) have tried and failed? Stay married (if you want), keep preaching (if you want), but don’t ever believe for one second that if you work hard enough and have faith enough that you’ll be healed.
God made you JUST the way your are. Maybe you should take a page from Mel White and focus your preaching career on ending bigotry, hatred, and lies about gays and lesbians. Just a thought…
November 5th, 2006 at 4:33 pmWhy, what do they do to your computer over there? Hijack your IP?
No idea! I have a personal relationship with my lord and savior Dell computer, and I just can’t expose my personal jeebus to Freeper Land.
I TRIPLE dog dare you to go…
Comment by unbelievable
In the voice of Bush 41 — Not gonna do it…
November 5th, 2006 at 4:34 pmHomosexuality is wrong. God greated us to have union with the “opposite” sex.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:35 pmTed Haggard is simply a sinner like the rest of us. His homosexual sin is no worse than any hetrosexual sin. The grace of God is extended to him in the same way as it is to openly homosexual & hetrosexual sinners.
The day is coming when all the blasphemies written above will be judged. In that day, Ted Haggard will be found justified before God, not because he was a perfect man but because he has received forgiveness from God. The same forgiveness is on offer to anyone, it’s free, just ask.
I do not understand how everyone can sit here and say that Christians are a bunch of idiots because they followed this guy and they are all a bunch of self hating closet homos and that is why they have to gay bash. If any of you truly knew anything about Christianity it is not about hating yourself. It is about loving anyone REGARDLESS of the things that they do. Do I think that what Ted did was immoral and wrong? Absolutely. And am I going to feel bad for him? Not one bit. But I will definitely be praying for his wife and 5 children that now have to live with shame because of his terrible decisions. I am an on fire for God Christian and I do not hate myself because the Bible does not teach that and neither did Jesus. But according to The Bible homosexuality is a sin and is judged by God in the same way that any sin is. So don’t think that we just run around hating gay people because that is not what TRUE Christians are all about.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:36 pmBy having the option of a committed homosexual marriage, they could avoid the heartache to themselves as well as the heartache to the wives and children of the heterosexual marriage used in a futile attempt to “passâ€.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — November 5, 2006 @ 4:30 pm
Sorry, but see how you are the exception… ?
I have known many gay men over the years (a lot go onto architecture or interior design), and I wholly agree with you. Some of the men, and women, I have known tried to be in heterosexual relationships, even marriage, because they were taught to hate who they are. It’s a horrible, horrible thing to see them go through.
Jesus would have loved them as they are. I’m glad you get it. I just wish others of your faith would think this way…
November 5th, 2006 at 4:37 pmToday Haggard. Tomorrow, Dobson!
November 5th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI’m sure it won’t be long before we find out (probably from Daryll) that rev. ted is a democratic plant, perhaps a Clinton operative, who infiltrated the christian right years ago and assended to power with the intent of bringing them down them down through a sordid sexual scandal just before the ‘06 election. An agent of satan and, like Foley, a member of a ‘gay mafia’ sleeper cell who had been planning this attack for years.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:40 pmThe same forgiveness is on offer to anyone, it’s free, just ask.
Comment by Rick Evans
Rick, you are an arrogant prick.
Please forgive me…
November 5th, 2006 at 4:40 pmNo idea! I have a personal relationship with my lord and savior Dell computer, and I just can’t expose my personal jeebus to Freeper Land.
I’m not sure you should expose your sanity to freeperville…
Where are the boys? They’re usually willing to go over there and report back…
In the voice of Bush 41 — Not gonna do it…
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
Chicken…
November 5th, 2006 at 4:40 pm#99 – “Ted still doesn’t get it. What is so “repulsive and dark†about him is not his same-sex attraction, nor is it his drug abuse …” Comment by CY
*******Dear CY, THANK YOU for your succinct example of moral relativism. In the make-believe world of “Progressivism”, NOTHING is evil except specific morals and conservatism. The attraction is not what he is criticized for. He is criticized for his BEHAVIOUR. Needless to say, I am shocked. I thought Progs would welcome another gay perv with open arms.
I do agree with you on the hypocrisy bit – - but this fine example of a sneaky “Saturday Sinner & Sunday Christian” is an excellent example that
November 5th, 2006 at 4:44 pmchurches and synagogues are not museums for saints but hospitals for sinners.
Homosexuality is wrong. God greated us to have union with the “opposite†sex.
See Zoo, you wished for them and they came…. happy now?
Ted Haggard is simply a sinner like the rest of us.
What a horrible way to view mankind – as inherently bad. No wonder you people dream of a magical afterlife from which you’ll escape this miserable life. No wonder you hate yourselves and one another. No freaking wonder.
The same forgiveness is on offer to anyone, it’s free, just ask.
Comment by Rick Evans — November 5, 2006 @ 4:35 pm
Forgiveness from invisible idols is not necessary. Lindness and love form his fellow human beings is. It’s free – just do it.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:45 pmHey Zooey, love your poetry (Rick/prick), consider yourself forgiven.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:45 pmWhere are the boys? They’re usually willing to go over there and report back…
They have both flown the zoo, so I am no longer able to use them so horrendously.
Chicken…
Comment by unbelievable
Hey, I’m the one waiting for the Mormon boys to come around so I can ask to see their holy underoos. It’s not my fault they keep sending the Mormon girls to my door…
November 5th, 2006 at 4:45 pmWhat’s Daryll’s middle name? Is it Rick?
November 5th, 2006 at 4:46 pmSo don’t think that we just run around hating gay people because that is not what TRUE Christians are all about.
Comment by Blinded by Ignorance — November 5, 2006 @ 4:36 pm
Actions speak louder than words. And the actions of most Christians are hateful toward homosexuals.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:46 pm“Homosexuality is wrong. God greated us to have union with the ‘opposite’ sex.”
Rick was apparently in on the planning meetings.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:48 pmNeedless to say, I am shocked. I thought Progs would welcome another gay perv with open arms.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — November 5, 2006 @ 4:44 pm
We do welcome you. We’d welcome you more if you’d just admit that you are gay.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:50 pm126 – as you have noticed, others who profess Christianity are not of the same faith as PLC.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:50 pmThey have both flown the zoo, so I am no longer able to use them so horrendously.
Was thinking the TP boys… In fact, Quadrajet just showed up. Lets’ get him to go… :)
Hey, I’m the one waiting for the Mormon boys to come around so I can ask to see their holy underoos. It’s not my fault they keep sending the Mormon girls to my door…
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 4:45 pm
Could you ask them to send their brothers next time? That you need a boy to speak to, as girls are second-class citizens not equally capable (they’ll fall for that nonsense I bet…)
November 5th, 2006 at 4:52 pm#124
“Ted Haggard will be found justified before God, not because he was a perfect man but because he has received forgiveness from God. The same forgiveness is on offer to anyone, it’s free, just ask.”
Why would I ask for forgiveness from the non-existent Christian god for non-existent sins committed against the non-existent Christian god?
Sounds kinda odd, but I do respect your right to self-flagellation.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:52 pmWhat’s Daryll’s middle name? Is it Rick?
Comment by Quadrajet — November 5, 2006 @ 4:46 pm
Funny… :) Daryll wasn’t quite that grammatically fluent though…
Hey, Zoo and I think you should go check out RedState.org and see what they are saying about this…
November 5th, 2006 at 4:53 pm126 – as you have noticed, others who profess Christianity are not of the same faith as PLC.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — November 5, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
If he were the majority I probably would still be one (No, not an invitation to convert me, trolls. I’m happier as an Atheist). Sadly, as we’ve discussed, he’s not typical. Too bad. For everyone.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:56 pmSo if two people, of the same sex, decide to get married it would not matter to the evangelicals because God would forgive them for not being perfect?
Talk about confusing….so the evangelicals condemn liberals, homosexual and sinners so God can forgive them later?
Huh. So we must create laws so people wont sin, but if they sin we should punish them, so God can forgive them for having us punish them for sinning so God can forgive them so we can punish them for sinning so God canforgive them so we can punish them for sinning so God can forgive…
What a horrible crazy loop!!
November 5th, 2006 at 4:56 pm“I thought Progs would welcome another gay perv with open arms.”
The brilliance of this is in how “gay” and “perv” are yoked together. The judgment and condemnation is built right in, and furthermore does double-duty: 1) a gay person is judged a “perv,” and 2) anyone who accepts a gay person is a horrible “perv-accepter.” It’s fantastic.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:58 pmWas thinking the TP boys… In fact, Quadrajet just showed up. Lets’ get him to go… :)
Comment by unbelievable — November 5, 2006 @ 4:52 pm
Give me a minute UB, I’ll throw on some protective clothing and head over there, hehehehe
November 5th, 2006 at 4:58 pmHey Dog_named_Boo, good effort. You’re really coming along. There is help available for reading and comprehension, JUST ASK! Love your heart.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:01 pmI did take it up with God. And God told me that several centuries ago a bunch of homophobic old men got together and twisted the Word of God to suit themselves. And God is sick and tired of the continued onslaught against allowing two people to love each other, regardless of gender. God said that S/He is going to continue to take down these self-annointed hypocrites preaching their word in God’s name.
Remember, Revelations speaks of two witnesses coming forward in the end times. Will you recognize it if one of them should speak to you today? Could you say with 100% certainty that I am not one of those of whom Revelations speaks? Have you ever breathed away a cloud?
November 5th, 2006 at 5:03 pmUnbelievable
Sorry, but see how you are the exception… ?
I admit that I am an exception trying to create a new rule.
Jesus would have loved them as they are. I’m glad you get it. I just wish others of your faith would think this way…
Yes. Me, too. I’m working on it!
November 5th, 2006 at 5:04 pmOkay fine, Zookeeper…
You owe me briilo pads…
Oddly, there was an ad for CNN across the header…
And it took a while to open the page (no doubt while they uploaded redneck spyware…)
There was nothing on this subject on the front or second pages… Just crap about Death to Saddam, smearing Harold Ford and Laura Bush’s birthday. So, denial as usual… Ignore it and it will go away… Figures.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:06 pmIf Christians love gay people so much then why don’t they campaign for equal rights instead of against them?
November 5th, 2006 at 5:06 pmHey Zooey, love your poetry (Rick/prick), consider yourself forgiven.
Comment by Rick Evans
I bet you get that a lot…I thought I felt an horrible burden lift off of me just now. Thank you Pri…..er, Rick.
I hope I’m one of the blasphemers….did I make the cut?
November 5th, 2006 at 5:06 pmSave me Rick Save ME!!
ROTFL!!
November 5th, 2006 at 5:09 pmI hope I’m one of the blasphemers….did I make the cut?
You, Zooey, are a precious person who is loved by God and by all who truly serve Him.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:11 pmOkay fine, Zookeeper…
You owe me briilo pads…
Comment by unbelievable
But you sent Quadrajet….and he went!
Note to self: FedEx brillo pads to unbelievable….tuck in some Hershey kisses for comfort…
November 5th, 2006 at 5:11 pmGive me a minute UB, I’ll throw on some protective clothing and head over there, hehehehe
Comment by Quadrajet — November 5, 2006 @ 4:58 pm
I stepped up…
Here are some comments from he Saddam post:
“I was actually a little surprised by this. Given the hand that we’ve had in setting up the incipient Iraqi justice system, clemency wouldn’t have been unexpected. Of course, Hussein may now get the obligatory twenty-five year stay on death row, complete with a big-time book deal and NPR stardom. Then I thought, thank God at least we won’t have yet another butcher dying peacefully in his bed to thumb his nose at humanity for the rest of time. And then I thought, what the heck is wrong with people, that butchers like this keep coming to power? Is there any way to keep it from happening again?” (Oh no… that pre-emptive mentality again).
“When Iraqis were setting up their judicial system, they looked around at the failures of others in order to learn from others’ mistakes. Apparently one of the mistakes they avoided was our habit of leaving people on death row for 30 years. I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant’s faithful 100 percent.” (From a woman named “My husband said this”. Gag!)
“Gaddafi was VERY quick to publically abandon his WMD programs after we invaded Iraq. We got 2 for the price of 1 there. ”
“We should NOEVER confront our enemies! It’s much better that we build a huge wall around ourselves and just let the rest of the world alone! Better still, let’s NOT build a wall, just let the rest of the world alone, and let them come to us. Heck, who needs tall building anyhow?” (I think he was trying sarcasm, but failed miserably)
“Watch out Luxembourg, here we come! http://gamecock.townhall.com and http://www.race42008.com
“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan”
“You’re truely dense if you believe that North Korea’s nuclear programs have ANYTHING to do with out removing Saddam from power. North Korea has admited to building their weapons since the 1990’s under the nose of Clinton’s negotiation.”
Have enough? If not… http://www.redstate.com/stories/breaking_news/death_for_the_butcher_of_baghdad#comment
November 5th, 2006 at 5:13 pm142 – redstate.org is now redstate.com.
this story is not there. no mention of it. nada. nil. zip.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:13 pmSo, denial as usual… Ignore it and it will go away… Figures.
Comment by unbelievable — November 5, 2006 @ 5:06 pm
You have to go back to the 4th and earlier UB. Then it’s mostly “Ted who?” articles – they don’t seem to be too familiar with Ted over there. I find that a bit surprising since he’s been a huge, errr, ’supporter’ of the bush syndicate – I mean administration.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:14 pmYes. Me, too. I’m working on it!
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — November 5, 2006 @ 5:04 pm
Good luck! I hope you succeed.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:15 pmNote to self: FedEx brillo pads to unbelievable….tuck in some Hershey kisses for comfort…
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 5:11 pm
It was scary. I read a few comments from the Saddam thread. Tried to post them here, but it will probably get zapped by the FBI spyware…
The difference between here and there is about 50-100 IQ points…
November 5th, 2006 at 5:17 pmthey don’t seem to be too familiar with Ted over there. I find that a bit surprising since he’s been a huge, errr, ’supporter’ of the bush syndicate – I mean administration.
I am not suprised, living in the great Red State of Texas I see alot of these types, they are CHINOS. Christian in name only.
They will jump on the moral bandwagon every chance they get but fall off at the first saloon they pass! =)
November 5th, 2006 at 5:21 pmYou have to go back to the 4th and earlier UB. Then it’s mostly “Ted who?†articles – they don’t seem to be too familiar with Ted over there. I find that a bit surprising since he’s been a huge, errr, ’supporter’ of the bush syndicate – I mean administration.
Comment by Quadrajet — November 5, 2006 @ 5:14 pm
I couldn’t hold my breath that long, and my eyes were starting to bleed.
Ted who? They really were saying that? If their god is all-knowing, then who do they think they are fooling with that line?
November 5th, 2006 at 5:22 pmTo my fellow Christians, of the fundamentalist pursuasion. Remember how the church of ancestors treated the following”
1. Epileptics as possessed/owned by the devil.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:22 pm2.
You, Zooey, are a precious person who is loved by God and by all who truly serve Him.
Comment by Rick Evans
I think that means I made the cut!
*high five!*
November 5th, 2006 at 5:23 pmQuadrajet & unbelievable,
Thanks for taking one for the team. Have a nice evening out, and some strawberries & champagne on us. :)
November 5th, 2006 at 5:24 pmIt’s been on the Local [non-cable] news here in Dallas =)
Funny you said that I was just reading this;
http://www.highiqsociety.org/iq_tests/
I scored a 100 on the TA3, so nanner nannah boo boo to you and your reeedong komperhension! Rick Evanns Heh!
November 5th, 2006 at 5:27 pmIt’s now for alll the bible-thumping homophobes to come out of the closet. snark. heh-heh.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:28 pmI scored a 100 on the TA3, so nanner nannah boo boo to you and your reeedong komperhension! Rick Evanns Heh!
That’s awesome! God has big plans for your life. JUST ASK!
November 5th, 2006 at 5:30 pmSpeaking of strawberries, it’s time to go feed things, including my stomach and a couple of starving 15 pound cats…
November 5th, 2006 at 5:31 pmTed who? They really were saying that? If their god is all-knowing, then who do they think they are fooling with that line?
Comment by unbelievable — November 5, 2006 @ 5:22 pm
Yes UB, they sure are saying just that. Here’s a couple of headlines…..
Ted Who?
Story – Erick – 2006-11-03 18:11 – 84 comments – 0 attachments
and this……
Who Is Ted Haggard? Redhot Article – Dan McLaughlin – 2006-11-03 01:01 – 0 comments – 0 attachments
As for who they think they’re fooling, I’m guessing it’s the ‘50-100 points below’ crowd. And I’m sure they’re fooled, hehehehe
November 5th, 2006 at 5:31 pmYah, I can envision it already — a circle of robed men pointing fingers at one another damning each other to hell so God can forgive them later.
Hey Rick, why not just cut out the middleman?
November 5th, 2006 at 5:34 pmDog named boo – I’m in Texas too, and I hear you my friend.
Now that I’ve been over to redstate, it’s time for me to grab the laptop and head into the decontamination chamber….
November 5th, 2006 at 5:34 pmHas this now become the republican mantra of 2006?: ” I am a deceiver, I am a liar.”
November 5th, 2006 at 5:35 pmMind boggling things!! …is it reallly possible for a 15 pound cat to starve? =)
November 5th, 2006 at 5:36 pmMight just wanna burn it!! =)
November 5th, 2006 at 5:37 pmQuadrajet & unbelievable,
Thanks for taking one for the team. Have a nice evening out, and some strawberries & champagne on us. :)
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 5:24 pm
Thank you Zooey, I’ll kick back and enjoy while my pc is in the autoclave….
November 5th, 2006 at 5:41 pmPI COT ORION!
SAPERE AUDE RICK!
November 5th, 2006 at 5:41 pmThen explain the nearly 60% divorce rate, extra-marital affairs and associates impacts on children growing up in such environments… No marriage is not what you’ve suggested. Nice fairytale though…
Comment by unbelievable
Be amused.
Back to the central point: Internet Blogging on the Jones/Haggard prostitution scandel continues to mix up and confuse male prostitution with gay marriage. It does so at a sensitive political time just before Tuesday’s election when the gay marriage referendum will be voted upon. This confusion is hurting gay marriage rather than helping it. The discussion on the Internet is focusing on religion and politics as it relates to male prostitution as engaged in by a married man. It belittles marriage, and just as you so clearly pointed out with your words “marriage is a fairytale”. So, I ask you, if you believe marriage is a fairytale, why do you think gays want to get married and become a portion of that fairy tale???
November 5th, 2006 at 5:41 pmIt’s now for alll the bible-thumping homophobes to come out of the closet. snark. heh-heh.
Yes there are many homophobes in the church, but there are many millions who love Jesus and just want to get on with following Him. I for one, am someone who helps homosexual & hetrosexual people through difficulties in their lives. Our church is a respectful safe place for people of all persuasions. We don’t judge people just because we think they’re wrong, but we help them in any way we can, unlike many who judge us because they think we are wrong.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:43 pmI don’t Haggard fathered 5 kids. Someone else must have gotten in there ahead of him. snark.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:44 pmI don’t believe Haggard fathered 5 children, someone else must have gotten in there ahead of him. snark.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:45 pmMind boggling things!! …is it reallly possible for a 15 pound cat to starve? =)
Comment by Dog_named_Boo
I’d be tempted to find out…
I like dogs.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:45 pmHow anyone can suggest we should sympathise with this creep is beyond me. Have you seen him in action? He’s a bullying child-brainwashing hypocritical fanatical hate-spreading bigot of the worst kind and a danger to all. He has zero sympathy for anyone who thinks outside his literal interpretation of the bible.
And he’s only admitted what he has in the face of undeniable evidence, that’s not evidence of high morals as some have claimed.
Maybe we should also sympathise with Hitler. It’s highly likely that he was also only expressing his inadequacies – poor little fellow.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:46 pmBy having the option of a committed homosexual marriage, they could avoid the heartache to themselves as well as the heartache to the wives and children of the heterosexual marriage used in a futile attempt to “passâ€.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — November 5, 2006 @ 4:30 pm
Thank you for your response!
November 5th, 2006 at 5:47 pmContact Ted here
November 5th, 2006 at 5:49 pmhttp://www.tedhaggard.com/
Ask him to spill the beans on the homo hypocrites in the White House.
Thank you Zooey, I’ll kick back and enjoy while my pc is in the autoclave….
Comment by Quadrajet
Ouch. Let us know how that works out for you…..try anyway. :)
November 5th, 2006 at 5:50 pmThis hypocrite was out getting some strange, cheating on his wife, all the while preaching about the evils of gay marriage and gay behavior.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:52 pmI’m glad for Nancy, that she is a forgiving person, but that doesn’t excuse his behavior or hypocrisy.
By the way, how well does Taggert know Rove?
say it once with me: “I have sinned against you!”
pics of Foley, Haggard and Crist coming Monday!!!
November 5th, 2006 at 5:55 pmI’ve still been waiting for anyone to ask the real question:
November 5th, 2006 at 5:56 pmMore beans, Mr. Taggert?
I have to agree with gazxsw. Had this not come to light, Haggard would be preaching his bigotry and then heading off for a little bump-n-rump. He’s sorry he’s been caught and that’s it. Consider for a minute the folks who have suffered discrimination and worse as a result of his constant inflaming of the redneck right. I feel sorry for his wife and children, and the victims of those who Haggard has ‘inspired’, but not this fool.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:56 pm“The fact is I am guilty of sexual immorality, and I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar. There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring with it all of my adult life.â€
And don’t forget to say “I’ve been projecting my guilt onto millions of people lives making their lives horrible and guilt-ridden all because of me.”
Jackass. Now for every stick-in-the-mud republican to do down with him.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:58 pmStem cell Research. Benign Illegal Drugs. Gay Marrage. Iraq War. Abortion.
Could they all be some nutcases guilt trip being projecting on the million in the population? I think so
Mind boggling things!! …is it reallly possible for a 15 pound cat to starve? =)
Comment by Dog_named_Boo — November 5, 2006 @ 5:36 pm
Only they think so… :)
November 5th, 2006 at 6:01 pmHey Rick did you know that some people believe Amenhotep was actually Moses?
November 5th, 2006 at 6:01 pmNo one as of yet on this blog has responded to my earlier question:
How does a male prostitution scandal involving a married man who allegedly enhanced the sex by the use of meth, how does this scandal further the cause of legalizing gay marriage?
The answer: ?
November 5th, 2006 at 6:01 pmWhy does Haggard look like those “Hardly Boys” on Southpark, you know, with how their mouths move and look funny.
“I got such a CLUE!”
November 5th, 2006 at 6:02 pm“It was HUGE.”
So, I ask you, if you believe marriage is a fairytale, why do you think gays want to get married and become a portion of that fairy tale???
Comment by Skyridge — November 5, 2006 @ 5:41 pm
They are just as suceptible to the idealism as any other person who has been read “Happily ever after” stories as children at bedtime. It’s cultural.
November 5th, 2006 at 6:04 pmI’d be tempted to find out…
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 5:45 pm
Hey…!
November 5th, 2006 at 6:05 pm#195 – The answer: ?
Comment by Skyridge
Well, it’s a pretty ridiculous question, in my opinion. Maybe that’s why it’s not getting answered.
November 5th, 2006 at 6:08 pmHey…!
Comment by unbelievable
Ok, so you can find out how long it takes to starve a 60 pound dog. I’ll send her to you. But she’ll probably eat your cats before you find out…
Heh.
November 5th, 2006 at 6:10 pmDon’t forget he had weekly conference calls with the Bush administration. Every Monday to be specific.
November 5th, 2006 at 6:11 pmSkyridge, perhaps I’m missing something here, but I don’t see the connection between a male prostitution/drug scandal and the gay marriage issue, which I believe is about equal rights and protections under the law as I understand it and not so much about being part of the ‘fairytale’.
November 5th, 2006 at 6:16 pmWell, it’s a pretty ridiculous question, in my opinion. Maybe that’s why it’s not getting answered.
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 6:08 pm
It is important not to ridicule others for one’s own intellectual shortcomings. The below link provides one response to my question in a well-reasoned and thoughtfilled manner:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/203/story_20331_1.html
What a pity that may all too often speak before they think. Perhaps you might enjoy the new film that is out: Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
November 5th, 2006 at 6:17 pmSkyridge,
Bite me.
Oh my god! I’m confirming your suspicions about my super-low IQ! Good thing I don’t care what you think of me…
November 5th, 2006 at 6:23 pmOh, and Skyridge? It’s still a ridiculous question.
November 5th, 2006 at 6:24 pmThank you Quadrajet. I, too, do not see the connection between a male prostitution scandal and the legalization of gay marriage, which is why I raised the question. The source of my question goes back to the interview with Mike Jones that was broadcast on the major networks. During the interview, Mike Jones stated that he was coming forth with his allegations against Haggard at this politically sensitive time in order to help the gay marriage referendum. Clearly, that does not make any sense to me, so I am asking the question just in case I may be missing something.
It appears I haven’t missed anything because no one has been able to tell me that this scandal is helping…
November 5th, 2006 at 6:28 pmSkyridge,
Bite me.
Oh my god! I’m confirming your suspicions about my super-low IQ! Good thing I don’t care what you think of me…
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 6:23 pm
Please do try and distinquish between IQ and Cultural Learnings, between intelligence and not giving a darn…
November 5th, 2006 at 6:33 pm…not giving a darn…
Comment by Skyridge
You’re so cute.
November 5th, 2006 at 6:39 pmThe source of my question goes back to the interview with Mike Jones that was broadcast on the major networks. During the interview, Mike Jones stated that he was coming forth with his allegations against Haggard at this politically sensitive time in order to help the gay marriage referendum. Clearly, that does not make any sense to me, so I am asking the question just in case I may be missing something.
It appears I haven’t missed anything because no one has been able to tell me that this scandal is helping…
Comment by Skyridge
If you will check Youtube, you will see it was Ted that was claiming it was about the gay marriage amendment, not Mike Jones. With that in mind, isn’t your question now irrelevant?
November 5th, 2006 at 6:45 pmSkyridge
One of the leading proponents of anti-gay rheotric and ban on gay marriage has been revealed as self-hating gay, illustrating the feeble basis behind such rhetoric. Even Haggard understands the connection. Why is this confusing to you?
November 5th, 2006 at 7:13 pm#63 – “What is the plan for when the Republicans steal this midterm through the voting machines? Here in Upstate New York, several loyal Democrats have said they will defect from the party if we allow it to happen a third time.” Comment by publickindness
*******What is the plan to ensure that dead people don’t count and ACORN gathered voter registration cards aren’t filled out in the handy dandy 15 page pack?? The Dems have election rigging down pat – I suppose that is why they are SO suspicious of their losses….
November 5th, 2006 at 7:39 pmThank you barfly! Mike Jones explained the gay marriage drivers causing him to whistleblow either on CNN or MSNBC. I also viewed the video from his interview in the radio station where he explained he was stepping forth before the elections to help gay marriage. I think it hurts, and doesn’t help at all. There is so much confusion and personal vitriol in the Internet blogs, that the issues are being clouded by emotion. That is not what we need at this time. What we need is mature dialogue exchanges such that promote greater understanding, reduce animosity, and lead to our doing the right thing, and knowing why. To only say that one man is a self-hating gay doesn’t help the dialogue. Let’s develop our logic and reason a bit here.
So good stuff in this blog. Thanks to all who helped to increase my understanding!
November 5th, 2006 at 7:42 pmThis man will be ok.
We must forgive.
November 5th, 2006 at 7:53 pmI have to ask myself if there is a subculture in Conservatism that knows, if they ferociously bark at the very thing that they try to hide, that they will not be persecuted or found out.
November 5th, 2006 at 7:54 pm#148 – “I did take it up with God. And God told me that several centuries ago a bunch of homophobic old men got together and twisted the Word of God to suit themselves. And God is sick and tired of the continued onslaught against allowing two people to love each other,…” Braid Faire
*******God didn’t let you know anything of the kind. You’re seem to be confusing God with your pagan witches, druids and leprechauns. If He did, He would have let you know that since the “puzzle pieces” do not fit together, you must have conveniently misunderstood what He had in Mind. How long have you been hearing these voices in your head?
November 5th, 2006 at 7:54 pmThis will help gay marriage because it exposes the hypocrisy of the anti-gay neocons and republicans. It helps people realize that preachers of hate are really no better than anyone else. People will get tired of being told to hate and this will bring about an end to hatred of gays.
November 5th, 2006 at 8:06 pmAll right-wing Republicans are hypocritical nut-jobs. Just look at Haggard and Katherine Harris.
Katie Harris now wants to convert all Jews to her fire-breathing Jihadi-Christian faith ( http://www.polibuzz.blogspot.com ) That’s scary.
November 5th, 2006 at 8:09 pmTo those of you who heard what happen to Ted Art Haggard, You need to
November 5th, 2006 at 8:41 pmbe careful of what you say with your mouth, I don’t condone what Ted Haggard did. God and you have to forgive him, Where will you stand when
you get to heaven?
Ok, so you can find out how long it takes to starve a 60 pound dog. I’ll send her to you.
I like dogs too. Cats are just easier, and well, I know I’m gonna catch hell for this, smarter to live with. No, they don’t chanse burglers – not that I have that sort of problem that people want to steal what I have – but the female does really cool tricks (high-five, beg, shake hands :) And they’ve both been cross country – twice.
But she’ll probably eat your cats before you find out…
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 6:10 pm
My mother’s 90 pound lab won’t mess with my female cat. She’s a tough one…
November 5th, 2006 at 8:53 pmWhat Mr. Haggard did was unacceptable because he is human. But this is probably the only thing wrong this man has done in 20 years. Sin is sin!! But we, the ones critizinging Mr. Haggard, are no better. Maybe we’ve never done ANYTHING like what he has done but when we sin we’re worthy of death. Those saying he’s a “Bastard, Republican-Voting loser, etc.” are no better. Have any of us ever gossiped? The end results of such an action has the same consequences. Pastors are not God. But remember the only difference, the only, is that Mr. Haggard is forgiven. Are you? Please consider what you say and chose carefully before you say it, because you may have to eat your words. Think of your own personal sins. Realize you’re no better or no worse.
November 5th, 2006 at 8:55 pmWhere will you stand when you get to heaven?
Comment by Danielle Wales — November 5, 2006 @ 8:41 pm
We’re not going to Heaven… If we get an after-life, we definitely don’t wanna hang out with the hypocrites and Christonazis.
We’re going to The Flying Spaghetti Monster’s Heaven. Rivers of beer and all the pasta you can eat with no weight gain. http://www.venganza.org
November 5th, 2006 at 8:59 pmPeople saying Mr. Haggard hates himself are only saying such hate things because they themselves hate truth. Let’s look past deeds of one man and realize that we all hate ourselves. The reason for that is that there is a God sized hole in our hearts. I’ll leave it to you to figure out what will fill that hole.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:05 pmHomosexuals are doing these deeds 24/7 but we’re not allowed to bash them. What this one man has done is terrible but he confessed it. What millions of men and women are doing to men and women of the same sex is the same, and they make it no secret. But they haven’t confessed it. They simply don’t deny that they are perverts whose ways led one thing to another and now they can’t live with themselves. We keep saying these things about him that are worse than what he has done. It’s more perverted than what has happened. This man is sorry, and we’re going to keep beating him into the ground because he’s sorry. If he said he wasn’t sorry, we would applaud him and condone what he has done. How sick are we?
So, god declares that homosexuals are evil scum of the earth then creates one his biggest fans with irresistible homosexual urges.
That’s one sick god.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:07 pm#191 – QuadraJet – Well stated. These assclowns do more damage than they’ll ever take responsibility for.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:10 pmIsaiah Tyler,
The only people Haggard has to ask for forgiveness from are his wife and children. We want him to be himself.
You’re being judgmental.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:11 pmWhere will you stand when you get to heaven?
Comment by Danielle Wales — November 5, 2006 @ 8:41 pm
We’re not going to Heaven… If we get an after-life, we definitely don’t wanna hang out with the hypocrites and Christonazis.
We’re going to The Flying Spaghetti Monster’s Heaven. Rivers of beer and all the pasta you can eat with no weight gain. http://www.venganza.org
Comment by unbelievable — November 5, 2006 @ 8:59 pm
November 5th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
People saying Mr. Haggard hates himself are only saying such hate things because they themselves hate truth.
That makes absolutely zero sense. Were you just going for effect by using the word ‘hate’ as many times as you could in one sentance? It didn’t backfired.
Let’s look past deeds of one man and realize that we all hate ourselves.
We ALL hate ourselves? Nonsense. I don’t hate myself. That would be asinine considering I’m the one driving the ship…
The reason for that is that there is a God sized hole in our hearts. I’ll leave it to you to figure out what will fill that hole.
If there was a hole in your heart, you wouldn’t be typing right now…
So, which god? Zeus? Vishnu? Apollo? Zoroaster?
They simply don’t deny that they are perverts whose ways led one thing to another and now they can’t live with themselves.
That’s a result of your silly religion that keeps people oppressed and obedient by telling them how terrible they are. It’s not actually because they ARE terrible.
If he said he wasn’t sorry, we would applaud him and condone what he has done. How sick are we?
Comment by Isaiah Tyler — November 5, 2006 @ 9:05 pm
We? Speak for yourself Isaiah. Many of us reject that absurd logic in favor of reality that accepts people for who they are. You should try it. You wouldn’t feel so ill all the time.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:13 pm#223-gazxsw- God declares that homosexuality is evil, so evil it is an abomination, why? Because it’s a law. It’s His law. He did not create Mr. Haggard that way. He simply created him. God can not love someone who’s moves he controls. We have a free will. Every time we make a decision we have the choice of a million options. Think about that
November 5th, 2006 at 9:15 pmWhere will you stand when
November 5th, 2006 at 9:16 pmyou get to heaven?
Certainly not in line behind W, Darth and Rumdum!
Oh, that’s right, heaven is fictional. Never mind.
These assclowns do more damage than they’ll ever take responsibility for.
Comment by RUCerious — November 5, 2006 @ 9:10 pm
I still blame the system for creating the problem than the individual who is a victim himself.
You know how children who are molested will grow up to molest children if they do not receive therapy early enough? I think it’s the same viscious cycle with hate. If someone teaches you to hate yourself, how can you ever do anything but teach the same to others?
November 5th, 2006 at 9:16 pmUh-oh.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:19 pmJesus freak alert.
I’m getting flack for not accepting Mr. Haggard for who he is. But what he’s doing has been outlawed for 6,000 years until now. Why? Because we have a sense of morals. People who rob banks, why aren’t they accepted for who they are? They’re theives, you can’t trust them. But why aren’t they legal? Why don’t we just accept them and then come home to a house with a broken window and 20,000 dollars worth of equipment gone? The consequences of these acts go farthur than you know
November 5th, 2006 at 9:20 pmIsaiah Tyler,
I suggest you not act on those homosexual fantasies…
November 5th, 2006 at 9:22 pmAre we forgetting that this man was drugged by a satanist when this happened?
November 5th, 2006 at 9:22 pmUn –
November 5th, 2006 at 9:22 pmAbsollutely. How does a guy like Haggert rise to a position of prominence, mostly by being the best gay basher in the congregation, while secretly living with the lie he’s also living?
The evangelicals promote those who spew the most hate, so I guess he’s a victim of his own success and failure at the same time.l
I’ll tell you there is an afterlife.
You can also tell me that there are flying invisible unicorns and I wouldn’t believe that either….
Listen to the people that were not Christians, and who had near death experiences and realized there is a hell.
Near death is not death. I wanna talk with someone who died and came back weeks later. Then, I might buy it. Otherwise, it’s ridiculous to think someone’s dream should be taken as proof.
You’re creating a dream world that is not possible unless you go to Olive Garden with a million dollar gift card.
So your heaven is possible because an ancient textbook written by some heat stroked desert dwellers says a god said it, but not mine because it’s too incredible. LOL. That was hilarious, and I bet you don’t even know why.
There is forgiveness. What would be the fun in going to a heaven like you described where you would enjoy that only for a day?
It’s not for one day – it’s for eternity. Though frankly, your heaven sounds like a bore-fest. Eternal slumber is a far more appealing alternative than hanging out with hypocrites.
Living on earth would be “better†than that. There is a love that is greater than drinking beer and eating spaghetti.
Comment by Isaiah Tyler — November 5, 2006 @ 9:12 pm
Depends on how you define love Isaiah… I spell it r-a-v-i-o-l-i.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:23 pmIsaiah,
There’s an old saying.
It goes:
“If God didn’t make people gay,
Then there wouldn’t be any.”
We’re not slamming him. We would like him to accept himself for who he is:
November 5th, 2006 at 9:23 pmA worthy member of the human race who happens to be gay.
Every time we make a decision we have the choice of a million options. Think about that
Comment by Isaiah Tyler — November 5, 2006 @ 9:15 pm
Yes, we have the choice. Not some mighty puppet master pulling the strings. Stop being a puppet, Isaiah. It’s making you feel bad about yourself.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:26 pmPeople who rob banks, why aren’t they accepted for who they are? They’re theives, you can’t trust them.
Comment by Isaiah Tyler — November 5, 2006 @ 9:20 pm
You’re comparing bank robbers to guys who think Russell Crowe is hot? Are you serious here?
Isaiah, dude, really… You’ve lost your grip on reality. We suggest you get in your car now and go back to church. Stay there until you’ve forgotten the web address to Think Progress. Hurry, Jesus is waiting for you.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:28 pmTotally OT:
Cheney to spend election day hunting with his daughter.
One word of advice.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:29 pm“Duck!”
The evangelicals promote those who spew the most hate, so I guess he’s a victim of his own success and failure at the same time.l
Comment by RUCerious — November 5, 2006 @ 9:22 pm
A festering cycle of hatred… How sad and utterly ironic.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:31 pmIf somebody took the word ‘hypocrisy’ away from you, your political faction would collapse.
“The Christian culture teaches people to be ashamed of their own nature”
The multicultural ideology teaches people to be ashamed of their own nation and history. (just an unrelated potshot)
“We need a list of outed gay republicans.”
Call Joe McCarthy’s ghost.
Haggard may be a sleaze and a bigot, but this confession seem to be an honest deed. He’s out now, at least politically.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:35 pmI sure hope Daughter of Darth has her life insurance payments up to date.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:36 pmRandom thougts
November 5th, 2006 at 9:41 pmIf somebody took the word ‘hypocrisy’ away from you, your political faction would collapse.
Your point is?
If somebody took all the Republican (and Democrat) hypocrites out of congress, there would be a real big echo when anyone spoke on capitol hill.
We’re going to The Flying Spaghetti Monster’s Heaven. Rivers of beer and all the pasta you can eat with no weight gain. http://www.venganza.org
Comment by unbelievable — November 5, 2006 @ 8:59 pm
UB, are you a fellow Pastafarian? All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster….
November 5th, 2006 at 9:44 pmIf somebody took the word ‘hypocrisy’ away from you, your political faction would collapse.
Nah. It’s not the word that makes you all hypocrites – it’s your behavior.
The multicultural ideology teaches people to be ashamed of their own nation and history. (just an unrelated potshot)
Except that your potshot is not true.
Haggard may be a sleaze and a bigot, but this confession seem to be an honest deed. He’s out now, at least politically.
Comment by Random Rightie — November 5, 2006 @ 9:35 pm
How big of you to judge him RR. You took time out of your busy schedule of condemning people to do that for us? Not necessary. Really.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:45 pmUB, are you a fellow Pastafarian? All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster….
Comment by Quadrajet — November 5, 2006 @ 9:44 pm
You’d better be wearing a Pirate uniform when you say that Quadrajet. :)
There’s a rumor that the noodly one will be on South Park this week… I guess if they can see Jesus in grilled cheese and torillas, we can see FSM in cartoons on Comedy Central : )
By the way, what’s a quadrajet?
November 5th, 2006 at 9:53 pmIf somebody took the word ‘hypocrisy’ away from you, your political faction would collapse.
Comment by Random Rightie — November 5, 2006 @ 9:35 pm
Actually Rightie, we’d still have deceptiveness, dishonesty, falsity, pretense, self-righteousness, duplicity, fakery, falseness, and fraudulentness
November 5th, 2006 at 9:55 pmBy the way, what’s a quadrajet?
Comment by unbelievable — November 5, 2006 @ 9:53 pm
It’s a 4 barrel carburetor used on GM cars. I restore classic cars as a hobby.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:01 pmWe’re going to The Flying Spaghetti Monster’s Heaven. Rivers of beer and all the pasta you can eat with no weight gain.
God is not mocked. Whatever you sow, you will reap. The fact that you say you don’t believe in God is neither here nor there. You live in a land so corrupt and inward looking that you think you are at the centre of the universe. Many here in New Zealand consider America to be a deluded, self interested cesspool of every type of wickedness. Your atheism is fuelled by what you see in the church of America, which has largely lost it’s way and no longer resembles the glorious church that Jesus intended. You need to get a bigger picture and see that God is not like your war-monger president or like your hate-preaching televangelists or like your loose-lipped atheists. He has never changed from all eternity and extends mercy and grace freely to all who ask.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:05 pmIt’s a 4 barrel carburetor used on GM cars. I restore classic cars as a hobby.
Comment by Quadrajet — November 5, 2006 @ 10:01 pm
Cool!
November 5th, 2006 at 10:08 pmWhat else is new? I am seriously sick of these MF people.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:10 pm#25 – Hmmmm Hilary, got a little tamborine music to go with that?
November 5th, 2006 at 10:11 pm#253 should have referenced our friend Hilary at #250
November 5th, 2006 at 10:13 pmHilary,
I’m sorry for our image abroad. When Clinton was President, everyone liked us.
We, Americans, have not changed.
The pinhead in the Whitehouse has changed, and has brought down the perception of America with him.
Even his own father disagrees with him.
Please do not judge us based on a tiny-brained man who is surrounded by brilliant people able to steal 2 elections.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:15 pmIt’s cool that we have these “hit & run” trolls, so our regulars can have a day off.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:15 pmGod is not mocked. Whatever you sow, you will reap.
I’m imagining the Wizard of Oz floating head, booming voice and spitting fire when you say that…
(Not only do I mock you god, but evidently, I will mock you when you try to intimidate me liek a schoolyard bully).
The fact that you say you don’t believe in God is neither here nor there.
Apparently it’s both here and there enough for you to respond to my post…
You live in a land so corrupt and inward looking that you think you are at the centre of the universe.
That’s pretty much absolutistic and condescending. And wrong.
Many here in New Zealand consider America to be a deluded, self interested cesspool of every type of wickedness.
Many in America condier it that as well. Your point? That your opinion of America is somehow more correct?
Your atheism is fuelled by what you see in the church of America, which has largely lost it’s way and no longer resembles the glorious church that Jesus intended.
Nope. My Atheism is fuelled my the complete and total lack of proof of any god of any variety. The obsoleteness of the religious organization dedicated to worshipping your god is just icing on the cake.
You need to get a bigger picture and see that God is not like your war-monger president or like your hate-preaching televangelists or like your loose-lipped atheists.
Sounds like I need to get a high to buy that nonsense… Because otherwise, the only thing I see is a bunch of monkeys who evolved a big brain they can’t figure out how to work properly…
He has never changed from all eternity and extends mercy and grace freely to all who ask.
Comment by Hilary — November 5, 2006 @ 10:05 pm
Except molested children and cancer patients… or anyone one else with a real problem. Then, your god is missing in action. Just like most of your fellow “Christians”.
Really, Jesus would be disappointed what you all are doing in his name.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:16 pmHilary #250
“Your atheism is fuelled by what you see in the church of America”
Actually, it’s fueled by my firm grip on reality and my rejection of the hubris of people like you who think you know the mind of god.
“Many here in New Zealand consider America to be a deluded, self interested cesspool of every type of wickedness.”
Can’t argue with you there. Some of us are trying to fix that.
Here’s one hint, though: the non-religious don’t pose a threat to anyone.
BTW, say hi to Frodo for me.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:19 pmReligion is the biggest hoax of all time.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:22 pmIt’s cool that we have these “hit & run†trolls, so our regulars can have a day off.
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 10:15 pm
They probably are the regulars in disguise… I’m just not convinced there are that many nuts running around out there for there not to be overlap : )
November 5th, 2006 at 10:23 pmBTW, say hi to Frodo for me.
Comment by gorn — November 5, 2006 @ 10:19 pm
Funniest thing I’ve read today…
November 5th, 2006 at 10:24 pmExcept molested children and cancer patients… or anyone one else with a real problem. Then, your god is missing in action. Just like most of your fellow “Christiansâ€.
Ahem! Excuse me, your bitterness is showing. Very shallow.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:25 pmI’m just not convinced there are that many nuts running around out there for there not to be overlap : )
Comment by unbelievable
You may have lived in Idaho, but you didn’t live in Northern Idaho. Just sayin’
November 5th, 2006 at 10:28 pm#260
“They probably are the regulars in disguise… I’m just not convinced there are that many nuts running around out there for there not to be overlap”
Ted Haggard’s 30 million followers provide a richer pool of potential nutcases than the Taliban has in Afghanistan (population ~ 29 million).
Your fun fact for the day.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:30 pmAhem! Excuse me, your bitterness is showing. Very shallow.
Comment by Hilary
Oh, bravo. Nice turn around….not.
Jeebus.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:30 pmAhem! Excuse me, your bitterness is showing. Very shallow.
Comment by Hilary — November 5, 2006 @ 10:25 pm
I’m bitter and shallow because your god choses to allow children to be molested and people to suffer from incurable diseases?
You have totally lost touch with reality. Not that that wasn’t already blaringly obvious from your first post acting as the spokeswoman for a non-existent deity.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:31 pmYou may have lived in Idaho, but you didn’t live in Northern Idaho. Just sayin’
Comment by Zooey — November 5, 2006 @ 10:28 pm
I live in Georgia. You think there’s that much difference?
November 5th, 2006 at 10:33 pmOh boy the far-right religious trolls have come onto this thread. If they would listen to themselves, then they might realize what a hate filled bunch they are, and maybe they might stop spewing crap. Haggard believes his attraction for other men is demonic, but he was born Gay and unable to accept it, because some preacher told him when he was young that sex with other men is sin. The self hatred gets passed from one generation to the next in US evangelical churches and it must end!
November 5th, 2006 at 10:35 pmTed Haggard’s 30 million followers provide a richer pool of potential nutcases than the Taliban has in Afghanistan (population ~ 29 million). Your fun fact for the day.
Comment by gorn — November 5, 2006 @ 10:30 pm
gorn – Jon Stewart needs to hire you… Seriously….
November 5th, 2006 at 10:35 pmHilary #262
“Excuse me, your bitterness is showing.”
How can he be “bitter” about something he doesn’t believe in?
If you believe in your god, and you see misery and despair in the world, then you have cause to be bitter.
If one doesn’t believe in your god, then one looks at the misery and despair and says, “What can we do to try to improve this situation?”
Please explain how a non-believer can be bitter about what they don’t believe in?
November 5th, 2006 at 10:36 pmCan we *please* not go into the God thing?
No one knows for sure either way.
So can’t we respect other people’s opinions? As long as they can respect the other person’s…
Bad things happen to good people.
Good things happen to bad people.
It doesn’t mean there is a God. It doesn’t mean there isn’t a God.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:38 pmIt means that sh*t happens.
unbelievable #269
“gorn – Jon Stewart needs to hire you… Seriously….”
Jon Stewart – now there’s a god I could happily follow! :-)
November 5th, 2006 at 10:40 pmOh crap, I have to go to sleep now. Damn it.
By the way, gorn, I’m a she. :)
Alright – night everyone. Enjoy the Sunday Night Troll-fest…
November 5th, 2006 at 10:41 pmI live in Georgia. You think there’s that much difference?
Comment by unbelievable
Um, yes.
Gorn: unbelievable is a chick.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:41 pm#271 trueblue
“Can we *please* not go into the God thing?”
Tough to do given the subject matter of the thread, but I’ll try to play nice…
November 5th, 2006 at 10:43 pmIt doesn’t mean there is a God. It doesn’t mean there isn’t a God.
It means that sh*t happens.
Comment by trueblue
I worship you now, trueblue…
November 5th, 2006 at 10:45 pm#273, #274
So sorry, unbelievable. Must be my chauvanistic assumptions showing through. As penance I will now watch six consecutive viewings of Thelma & Louise.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:46 pmIt’s just that the discussion of whether their IS a God or not is fairly mute.
Talking about Mr. Haggard, and how he got there – that’s a different story.
I hope I clarified my earlier statement.
I don’t want to be a party pooper, but really, no one knows squat.
Just my 2 cents…
November 5th, 2006 at 10:48 pmGreat, Zooey….
now send me lots of money!
oops,… channeling Televangelists….
;)
November 5th, 2006 at 10:50 pmAs penance I will now watch six consecutive viewings of Thelma & Louise.
Comment by gorn
I was thinking “Steel Magnolias.” :P
November 5th, 2006 at 10:51 pmOhhhh, that’s a harsh penance, even to a chick like me.
How about throwing in “Fried Green Tomatoes”?
November 5th, 2006 at 10:52 pm“we’d still have deceptiveness, dishonesty, falsity, pretense, self-righteousness, duplicity, fakery, falseness, and fraudulentness ”
Yes! Synonyminess is what I was after, you lot sound rather repetitiveyist.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:53 pmOk, gorn, watch “Steel Magnolias” three times, and “Fried Green Tomatoes” three times.
If you don’t want to throw both of us out of a window by the end of that, watch them one more time…
November 5th, 2006 at 10:54 pmHAHA!
Same wavelength, Zooey!
How about “Truly, Madly, Deeply”?
November 5th, 2006 at 10:54 pmNow there’s a chick flick!
Okay, I’m writing down everything you are all putting on my penance list, and I’ll top that off with a Meg Ryan marathon. Let’s see, I got When Harry Met Sally, and French Kiss. That, plus two boxes of Puffs, and I’m ready to go…
November 5th, 2006 at 11:00 pmHow about “Truly, Madly, Deeply�
Now there’s a chick flick!
Comment by trueblue
Ok, I liked that one, even though it was pretty silly — Alan Rickman!! And the chick looked like a tranny…
November 5th, 2006 at 11:04 pmJeez, how could I forget Sleepless in Seattle. Sigh.
November 5th, 2006 at 11:05 pm#271 – It doesn’t mean there is a God. It doesn’t mean there isn’t a God.
November 5th, 2006 at 11:07 pmIt means that sh*t happens.
That it does, that it does.
gorn,
I think you know more chick flicks than I do.
November 5th, 2006 at 11:07 pmAlan Rickman *totally* made that movie!
November 5th, 2006 at 11:08 pmI am just waiting to see what ol’ Rush has to say about this whole thing.
November 5th, 2006 at 11:14 pmEating Happens! =)
November 5th, 2006 at 11:24 pmThe man is a poet. Besides everything else ,it’s a fantastical mind. Anyone who speaks in front of 11,000 people on Sunday, meets with White House on Monday and then head on up to Denver for a hot hotel session under the guise of Art from Kansas City is just the outrageous kind of character Hunter S. Thompson would be proud of. If he chooses to remain openly gay he should take a lover, move to Cuba and write incredible twisted, bent-up, love tattered, I-misdirected-miliions-of-souls poetry. This man has a second life in the literary world. Art from Kansas City. Go for it brother. We forgive you.
November 5th, 2006 at 11:29 pm#290 zooey (re-post)
“I think you know more chick flicks than I do.”
Comes from being married 20+ years and having two teenage daughters. Even my dog’s a girl.
It’s a wonder I don’t sprout D-cups with all the hormones flying around here.
November 5th, 2006 at 11:44 pmLet me regale you with a true tale of Xian hypocrisy.
November 5th, 2006 at 11:56 pmEaster morning, 1969.
DaNang RVN
I usually volunteered for duty on Sunday morming, as I didn’t go to church.
As the hymnns rose up from the chapel across the muddy street, the B52 bombers began a carpet bombing run just north of the airfiled.
The ground began to shake like a low intensity earthquake.
The praisers just raised the volume of their hymnns to offset the low pitched rumbling of the bombing.
As hundreds of villagers were running and being blown to bits, these assholes were praising their god at the top of their lungs.
Made me physically sick.
Every since then, I have this thing about religious hypocrites.
It’s a wonder I don’t sprout D-cups with all the hormones flying around here.
Comment by gorn
Oy, thanks for that….really. :)
Well, I only made it 16 years, but in my house it was Jackass and South Park.
November 5th, 2006 at 11:58 pmAs hundreds of villagers were running and being blown to bits, these assholes were praising their god at the top of their lungs.
Made me physically sick.
Every since then, I have this thing about religious hypocrites.
Comment by RUCerious
That is horrifying, RUCerious.
November 6th, 2006 at 12:00 amEvery since then, I have this thing about religious hypocrites.
Comment by RUCerious
Me, since Maradona went to the Vatican and asked: why doesnt the Pope take all the gold from the walls and give it to poor kids in Africa?
Maradona was hated for those words when he was playing in Barcelona.
November 6th, 2006 at 12:16 amIt’s a wonder I don’t sprout D-cups with all the hormones flying around here.
Comment by gorn
Gorn, I dont know if you already know the rules here but we are extremely strict about posts without links. So, about your last post, please provide links. :)
November 6th, 2006 at 12:17 amJuan,
I didn’t know you liked dudes with boobs. :)
November 6th, 2006 at 12:28 am#301
Well, I certainly wouldn’t want to break the rules. Here.
Enjoy, Juan.
November 6th, 2006 at 12:46 amI did some research and I belive that scientists are using the flu shots to infect Republicans with homosexuality.
http://www.liberalsmustdie.com/Home/tabid/36/EntryID/253/Default.aspx
It all make sense…
No wonder they want healthcare for “everyone”…
November 6th, 2006 at 1:16 amIt’s unfortunate, I hear a lot of throwing stones.
And with that, we have the same result, disunion and disharmony.
Why keep doing what hasn’t worked? Isn’t that the definition of insanity?
Let him/her who has no ’sin’ throw the first stone.
My experience is that in the past I have acted in “hypocrisy”- living one lifestyle but pretending to lead another; taking drugs, drinking alcoholic, ’sexual sin’ because I am an addict; drug addict, alcoholic, sex addict. It is not an excuse, it just is. It is a spiritual condition that needs a spiritual remedy.
It is my personal experience that I needed something bigger than me to help me have a daily reprieve from my addictions. I choose to call that entity, God.
Unfortunately, my experience is the ‘church’ often doesn’t look honestly at the reality of addiction. I don’t propose that homosexuality is an addiction. I do propose that pursuing meth is addictive behavior. Also, the definition of sexual addiction is, going against what one believes, morally and spiritually when one doesn’t want to, acting compulsively. What I hear Ted Haggard speaking about in his shame is the going against who his own spiritual integrity and belief system.
Part of tolerance is my acceptance that maybe for him acting homosexually is a sin even though maybe it is not for him. Maybe I don’t get to demand he accept he is homosexual but I get to accept that he doesn’t accept his homosexual tendencies but frames them differently than I do. Isn’t that part of being liberally minded and progressive, being opened minded? To consider another persons perspective on theological issues.
Also, part of addiction is the denial, rationalization, guilt, remorse and shame cycle.
These are all the symptoms I hear in Ted Haggards statements over the last week; denial of knowing his accuser; renegotiation, “yes, I know x but …”; rationalization, guilt, remorse, shame. All very common behaviors of an addict.
And, maybe he will go off to a really nice rehab unit. Hopefully, there are some really crappy ones that don’t help you at all and waist your money, time and tear your life and lives of the people you love apart.
Why be so resentful that people have money?
Don’t worry. “You reap what you sew.” “What goes around, comes around” etc. etc.
It’s not ALL BAD, OR ALL GOOD.
I know the church did some good (they provided housing, meals, medical assistance to individuals and family’s in need and other services to the community )and he definitely did harm.
I am just hoping that rather than perpetuating the hate cycle or perceptions of hatred that have gone on that there would be an effort toward peace.
I know for myself, I have enough rocks to throw at myself (if I chose to) and therefore not throw at anyone else. Who am I to judge?
When I take a look at my side of the street, I am too busy working to keep it clean and trying to do the next right thing.
Life has enough pain in it already.
Why perpetuate it anymore by hateful, mean or unpeaceful statements?
I have struggled with homosexuality, alcohol and drug addiction, physical and sexual child abuse, rape and am in recovery for all of them.
My experience in recovery and working with others professionally and personally is people need compassion and love.
We all are hypocrites. If we did everything we said we believed, we would be perfect and if that were true…we’d walk on water. :)
love and tolerance has always led to progress and that is through peace not war
and war starts with our thoughts and than with our words
after our words, than with our actions
after our actions, we have wars, divisions “right-wing” and “left-wing”
no longer talking and people hating
Let’s work toward the solution
LOVE
Love is kind
Love is gentle
Love is patient
Love is tolerant
Love forgives
BE WELL, BY BEING THE CHANGE YOU WISH TO SEE
Love yourself today
and
Love someone else
“Pay It Forward” …
[If you haven't seen the movie "Pay It Forward," inspiring movie toward progressive change]
November 6th, 2006 at 2:03 amIt’s unfortunate, I hear a lot of throwing stones.
And with that, we have the same result, disunion and disharmony.
Why keep doing what hasn’t worked? Isn’t that the definition of insanity?
Let him/her who has no ’sin’ throw the first stone.
My experience is that in the past I have acted in “hypocrisy”- living one lifestyle but pretending to lead another; taking drugs, drinking alcoholic, ’sexual sin’ because I am an addict; drug addict, alcoholic, sex addict. It is not an excuse, it just is. It is a spiritual condition that needs a spiritual remedy.
It is my personal experience that I needed something bigger than me to help me have a daily reprieve from my addictions. I choose to call that entity, God.
Unfortunately, my experience is the ‘church’ often doesn’t look honestly at the reality of addiction. I don’t propose that homosexuality is an addiction. I do propose that pursuing meth is addictive behavior. Also, the definition of sexual addiction is, going against what one believes, morally and spiritually when one doesn’t want to, acting compulsively. What I hear Ted Haggard speaking about in his shame is the going against who his own spiritual integrity and belief system.
Part of tolerance is my acceptance that maybe for him acting homosexually is a sin even though maybe it is not for him. Maybe I don’t get to demand he accept he is homosexual but I get to accept that he doesn’t accept his homosexual tendencies but frames them differently than I do. Isn’t that part of being liberally minded and progressive, being opened minded? To consider another persons perspective on theological issues.
Also, part of addiction is the denial, rationalization, guilt, remorse and shame cycle.
These are all the symptoms I hear in Ted Haggards statements over the last week; denial of knowing his accuser; renegotiation, “yes, I know x but …”; rationalization, guilt, remorse, shame. All very common behaviors of an addict.
And, maybe he will go off to a really nice rehab unit. Hopefully, there are some really crappy ones that don’t help you at all and waist your money, time and tear your life and lives of the people you love apart.
Why be so resentful that people have money?
Don’t worry. “You reap what you sew.” “What goes around, comes around” etc. etc.
It’s not ALL BAD, OR ALL GOOD.
I know the church did some good (they provided housing, meals, medical assistance to individuals and family’s in need and other services to the community )and he definitely did harm.
I am just hoping that rather than perpetuating the hate cycle or perceptions of hatred that have gone on that there would be an effort toward peace.
I know for myself, I have enough rocks to throw at myself (if I chose to) and therefore not throw at anyone else. Who am I to judge?
When I take a look at my side of the street, I am too busy working to keep it clean and trying to do the next right thing.
Life has enough pain in it already.
Why perpetuate it anymore by hateful, mean or unpeaceful statements?
I have struggled with homosexuality, alcohol and drug addiction, physical and sexual child abuse, rape and am in recovery for all of them.
My experience in recovery and working with others professionally and personally is people need compassion and love.
We all are hypocrites. If we did everything we said we believed, we would be perfect and if that were true…we’d walk on water. :)
love and tolerance has always led to progress and that is through peace not war
and war starts with our thoughts and than with our words
after our words, than with our actions
after our actions, we have wars, divisions “right-wing” and “left-wing”
no longer talking and people hating
Let’s work toward the solution
Love is kind
Love is gentle
Love is patient
Love is tolerant
Love forgives
BE WELL, BY BEING THE CHANGE YOU WISH TO SEE
BLESSINGS!
Love yourself today
and
Love someone else
Pay it forward…
November 6th, 2006 at 2:04 amSIMPLE….
GOD IS LOVE
UNFORTUNATELY, MAN/WOMAN HAS CONFUSED THAT.
I DO IT ALLLLLL THE TIME!
BECAUSE I AM NOT GOD!
BUMMER…
November 6th, 2006 at 2:36 am#305
“It is my personal experience that I needed something bigger than me to help me have a daily reprieve from my addictions. I choose to call that entity, God.”
Hey, BE, you’ve obviously got plenty of problems. I’m glad you found a solution in religion, really. I would never say no good comes from churches, as that would plainly be false. If you have resolved your destructive problems with religion, super. Other people would find resolution with professional counseling and/or appropriate medication. Others who can never be “fixed” are destined to a life of incarceration.
I have no problem at all with religion or the religious, so long as it is not a function of government, either directly or indirectly.
Regarding your vices, I’m fortunate to say I don’t share ANY of them, so it is somewhat difficult for me to relate. Sometimes people who are fighting additictions, and resolve them via religion, make the assumption that everyone suffers the same addictions, and therefore needs the same solution. In fact, this is very much a false assumption.
My only comment on your vices is that they are not all equivalent.
Physical and sexual child abuse and rape are horific crimes and cannot be equated with homosexuality, alcohol, and drug addiction (although the latter two obviously can drive you to other destructive activities).
Homosexuality is not a vice provided the activity is consensual. If it is not consensual, then it falls under the rape category and thus need not be mentioned at all in your list of personal flaws because it would be redundant (rape is already listed).
Certainly we are, but it is a matter of degree and of impact. For most of us, our hypocricies are essentially personal or very localized. Where hypocrisy becomes a problem worth discussing is when it involves our leaders, who have stature to influence millions of people, impact legislation, and be intrusive to the daily lives of others. This is obvious for political leaders, but our religious leaders have a special responsibility because they claim a divine connection to truth. Hypocrisy from religious leaders is especially heinous (and unfortunately it is very widespread).
It is important that people in powerful and influential positions conduct themselves with objectivity and integrity, and that they maintain a deep respect for our hard-fought social institutions and civil protections. If they can’t keep their personal flaws distinct and firewalled from their public activities, they need to go.
Haggard is such a person. He is not condemned (on this blog) for his homosexuality – such condemnation would typically come from evangelicals and similar. Rather, the condemnation here is related to Haggard’s hypocrisy derived from his own self-loathing directly influencing government policy.
November 6th, 2006 at 2:44 amSorry for the double submission above. Thought it didn’t go through the first time! whoops! :/
November 6th, 2006 at 2:47 amHillary:
I am a South African Atheist. I have always had something of an interest in the world at large and I have noticed something: The Yanks aren’t in any way unique in the perversity of their Christianity. Christianity by its very nature is perverse, how else can you explain witch burnings? How Christianity at its height of power and influence killed anyone who questioned its precepts? How during WWII the Catholic Church cut a deal with the fascists Hitler and Mussolini, that it exchanged its voice for its possessions? How after WWII the Church helped war criminals escape prosecution?
How do you explain the religiousity of groups like the South African Nationalist Party? Or the Freedom Front? How do you explain that the most Christian of the first world countries, which America is, is also the first world country which has now made torture legal and done away with Habeaus Corpus?
Isaiah
You criticise us Atheists for being what we are: People who don’t believe your god even exists. You criticise us and yet looking at what your religion has wrought, and how it has only been with the rise of groups such as the secular humanist movement, the free thinkers, and yes, us Atheists, that things like Slavery, Equality, and what is considered today to be sheer human decency have come into play.
Christianity was used to argue for slavery back during the period prior to the civil war. It was used to argue against equal rights back when Black people couldn’t vote, and back when women were considered second rate citizens. It was the free thinkers, that challenged this.
The poor treatment of members of other religions was a central theme to Christianity for a long time. You had crusades, accusations lobbed at the Budhists calling them Idolators, and at the same time a culture that would gladly export highly addictive drugs into China if it meant making a buck, all because non-Christians were somehow deemed to be non-human. Then the humanists came, the free thinkers came, and the Atheists came and said “No, this is not right.”
It is with the weakening of Christianity that the world has become a better place. It is with us turning around and fighting over issues of scientific truth, such as the study of medicine, the study of Astronomy, the study of Geography, the study of biology, and the study of non-biblical sources for our history, that we have also learned to question the moral judgements of the Bible.
We do not believe a father has the right to murder his son. We do not believe that it is okay to own slaves, provided they come from another country. We do not believe that any nation should be relegated to being second rate citizens. We do not believe in this because we as Atheists do not believe your God exists, and as such it is up to us, as human beings, to look not to some construct born of the fevered imaginings of a man who the Bible proclaims to have gone 30 days in the desert without food, water or a hat.
We believe that as human beings it is for us to figure out what constitutes right and wrong, because ultimately if we cause harm to others it is not a sin against god it is a reflection on ourselves. We don’t believe that if you wrong somebody you go to church and pray for forgiveness and it will all be okay, we believe that you go to the person you wronged and make amends. We don’t believe that you should act morally just because to act otherwise would mean you are going to hell, but because we believe that to act morally is good in and of itself.
Now look at this thread all about Haggard. Haggard believes in his words, he honestly believes in what he says, that his desires make him evil, that being gay is his greatest sin. He is more afraid of what he is, then what he does, he is more afraid of being gay, which harms nobody, then spreading hatred, which leads to people getting seriously hurt, and not just emotionally.
We Atheists? We condemn the hatred he has spread, but we admit our own humanity and thus we pity him.
You Christians? You condemn the homosexuality, and applaud the hatred.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:38 am
Oh, and PLC: When I say Christians, recognise that I am talking about the extremist nutjobs, not you.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:46 am#309 Bruce
AMEN BROTHER! Well said.
I had missed this from Isaiah:
Isaiah, my friend, speak for yourself.
I recall debating this same meme, oh, well over a decade ago on some Usenet news group or other – talk.origins, talk.religion, alt.atheism – one of those I think. You know, the ancient days, before the world wide web and blogs, just a step or two beyond punchcards.
It is astonishing how these things live on and on. Paraphrasing Abe Lincoln, posterity will little note nor long remember the words that we type here. But the memes, they live on forever.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:50 amWhen it comes down to it, Christians are just scared cowards. They don’t know what will happen after they die so they create their own destiny by following a 2,000 year old book. I call it “After Life Insurance”. They will do anything to hold on to their eternity.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:30 amAnd I thought the right-wing blogs neverending coverage of Kerry’s joke was an excercise in pointless fluffing of a non-issue.
WTF relevence is this to anyone on day 1 let alone day 5 ?
November 6th, 2006 at 4:36 amit is progress to be calling people nut jobs?
November 6th, 2006 at 4:38 amMaybe he could move to California and hook up with the aging blond-wigged hag who always dresses in the frilly little girl dresses on CBN, the Christian Broadcast Network. We always fondly refer to her as the Whore of Babylon. Maybe she could set him straight. At the least they could go for manly rides in one of the luxury vehicles that surround their compound. I once walked by it while on a stroll when I was in business in California. They had Mercedes, BMWs, you name it, if it was expensive, it was parked in their gated, guarded lot at their offices. I am sure many prayer offerings were said to chunk out the change for their chariots.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:56 amI am certain there is a special circle in hell reserved for televangelists and scum like Haggard. I also grow more certain everyday that it is and will be filled to overflowing.
How can someone like this have even an iota of respect for telling the truth only now after he has been preaching just the opposite for most of his adult life? No respect at all for this low life form.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:01 amGays have respect so do some drug users loads of people who get mixed up in things that are not quite socially acceptable but took responsibility for the way they are, these individuals are due respect for their lives like anyone else we aren’t all perfect. BUT someone who professes to be the perfect preacher, preaching morals and turns on us is not fit to be called human. This man should be put out on public display and stoned! by all the well behaved gays and drug users alike.
what’s he going to tell us now, that Jesus was a opium addict, alcoholic and botty basher? Go and rot Ted Haggard I’m no Christian thanks to you
[...] Enter Ted Haggard, Christian conservative pastor and founder of the New Life Church of Colorado. The church takes the bible literally and interprets it to condemn homosexuality as a sin, preach young earth and creationism. Haggard is a strong supporter of George W. Bush and apparently wields quite the political power1. In the news: The fact is I am guilty of sexual immorality, and I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar. There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring with it all of my adult life. Source [...]
November 6th, 2006 at 6:42 amQuote: “This man should be put out on public display and stoned!”
Progressive.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:46 amThere is no way I’m going to accept such a half-assed “Oh poor me I couldn’t help myself” excuse for an apology. He’s gay. He’s got nothing to apologize there. He couldn’t help himself? What? Couldn’t help it that he had sex with a man, or couldn’t help that he lied about it? Couldn’t help that he’s a meth-head? Maybe. Couldn’t help that he lied about it? BS. He’s the American equivalent to a bishop in the Vatican, and he want’s us to believe that this is a little “problem”
No… A problem is cheating on your taxes or embezzling a little money. A problem is having a rocky marriage. This guy is a fraud. He is nothing like what he preaches. If his conscience was bothering him, he would have stepped down as this high, mighty evangalist and given it up a long time ago. If this was a problem he was fighting all his adult life, he would have gotten help, or he would have long since gotten past the ‘ashamed’ part and reconciled himself with what he was. He was what he himself calls evil. How can he take on the job of an evangelist for such a large congregation… heck for any congregation, and be anything other than a fraud in his peoples eyes and the eyes of his God, and his own eyes for that matter?
I don’t think he HAS a struggle. I don’t think he is sorry (except maybe that he got caught). I don’t think he had any problems with the life-style he was leading and I don’t think he felt any shame over it or the lies he created to let him keep his apparently well paying “job” Calling of the Lord my left butt cheek. If he was a true man of god, he would not be in so high a position while he had that sort of ‘problem’ To do otherwise was to violate everything he claims to believe in, so he lied not only about being gay and being a drug addict, but he lied about being a believer.
I do not accept this as an apology. I wouldn’t if I was a member of his church and I don’t as a citizen of the country he lied to.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:47 amDon’t you think calling a preacher “a deceiver and a liar” is a bit redundant?
November 6th, 2006 at 8:28 amNow maybe someone will change those billboards on I-25 near Colorado Springs to read:
November 6th, 2006 at 8:50 amFocus on the Fanny Please
Exit 1 Mile
Rev. Debra Haffner (http://debrahaffner.blogspot.com) writes this morning, “Ted Haggard dramatically illustrates how soul damaging the denial of the blessing of sexual difference is. How different his life would have been had he accepted his own sexual attractions and made decisions about his sexuality that were life affirming rather than so now ultimately destructive to himself and his family.”
November 6th, 2006 at 9:45 amWhy does god hate amputees? He’s never given them a miracle of regeneration no matter how many people have prayed! He’s cursed them from day one! God hates amputees!
November 6th, 2006 at 10:12 amIs bible the book of mercy and peace ????????????? http://islamplanet.jeeran.com/mercy%20and%20peace.html
“The conversion of Paul was no conversion at all: it was Paul who converted the religion that has raised one man above sin and death into a religion that delivered millions of men so completely into their dominion that their own common nature became a horror to them, and the religious life became a denial of life.” – George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
November 6th, 2006 at 10:28 amA retired priest committed suicide by setting himself on fire in a German monastery in protest at the spread of Islam and the Protestant Church’s inability to contain it. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2434625.html
November 6th, 2006 at 10:29 amProfessor Keith Moore, one of the world’s prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology. University of Toronto, Canada “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur’aan about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from Allah, or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of Allah.”
http://www.islamherald.com/asp/explore/fastest/news_excerpts.asp
November 6th, 2006 at 10:32 amTed Haggar . forgate people , fOllow your God your god is more mercifull that Human being . Read Quran Return to your natural status. revert to Islam. may Allah(swt) guides all human to his right way .
“Sense of justice is one of the most wonderful ideals of Islam, because as I read in the Qur’an I find those dynamic principles of life, not mystic but practical ethics for the daily conduct of life suited to the whole world.” –Lectures on “The Ideals of Islam;” see SPEECHES AND WRITINGS OF SAROJINI NAIDU, Madras, 1918, p. 167.
“The doctrine of brotherhood of Islam extends to all human beings, no matter what color, race or creed. Islam is the only religion which has been able to realize this doctrine in ractice. Muslims wherever on the world they are will recognize each other as brothers.” Mr. R. L. Mellema, Holland, Anthropologist, Writer and Scholar.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:36 amhttp://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfsection/index.php?category=1 Former Christian Priests and Missionaries who have Embraced Islam
http://www.jewsforallah.org/
“And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allah, and that which has been revealed to you and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah: They will not sell the Revelations of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account.” — ( Holy Quran 3:199 )
November 6th, 2006 at 10:40 amAll christians preachers FOLLOW the TEACHING of DEVIL PUALNOT JESUS(peace and blessing of be up him) :
” But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? ” ROMANS 3:7
November 6th, 2006 at 10:47 amBible Led Me to Islam .
Abdul Malik LeBlanc tells how he discovered Islam within the pages of Bible .
Taken from International Edition Voice of Islam November 1998, Page 25
http://www.islamawareness.net/Converts/blmti.html
November 6th, 2006 at 10:51 amWhy do we even care? I mean he is such a hypocrite that it sickens me to no end.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:52 amOh and Zooey,
November 6th, 2006 at 12:02 pmIdaho isn’t so bad now, we actually have an openly gay member who was elected to our legislature! Gasp! I blame this blueness on the influx of Californians. (cheap housing) ;-)
Mujaahid
Give it a rest, ok?
This isn’t a religious proselytizing blog. If you find peace with Islam, that’s great. For me, it’s a heap of superstitious lies and self-deception, mixed with some truth, wisdom, and history, wrapped in myth. In other words, it’s just as flawed as Christianity and any other man-made religion. But, to each his own.
November 6th, 2006 at 1:03 pmHe doesn’t have a lifelong problem, he just likes men.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:07 pmSell your sh*t to someone else.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:03 pmHow many more? Being gay isn’t the issue, its painting gays as evil. How did Haggart stand in front of all those people and preach hate in the name of god. Which was ultimately directed at himself. Dennis Hasert and Tom Delay should release their demons as well. They are what they hate.
There is a GOP closet list…
November 6th, 2006 at 10:55 pm[...] Ted Haggard was one of the most prominent evangelical leaders in the nation until he admitted to having a sexual relationship with a male prostitute and buying meth. [...]
November 23rd, 2006 at 4:07 pm