What happened to Ted and dozens of other Christian leaders is mainly a result of 2 things.

The 1st: Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, and others were all “puffed up” with pride and became “self-made” men. The Bible says that pride always comes before a fall — sometimes the fall is exposed and sometimes it’s not.

The 2nd: America has become a nation where selfishness reigns supreme. Americans are increasingly doing whatever give them pleasure with less and less sense of how it effects others. Women and children usually pay the heavier price. I used to live in San Francisco and anyone who is an honest gay man would tell you that gays are hurt more buy fellow gays than anyone else. The vast mojority of gay relationships are frought with infidelity. Most gay sex is about a selfish desire to get one’s pleasures met. I know, because I watched gay people in S.F. struggle through numerous relationships, hurting and being hurt.

Ted Haggard did what he did because he had become prideful and obsessed with getting “his”. The truth is… that’s where most Americans are heading — the non-religious more so than the religious — but almost all are going in that direction one way of another. I wish it weren’t so.

Yeah, totally. Only people who would throw up any excuse not to face up to their own sin. I join you in that prayer

The free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. Aren’t happy and should you not be grateful that someone took your judgment upon him? Jesus paid the price for our sins through his death and RESURRECTION!

If you have problem understanding this, call me or visit my website.
In the last days of judgement, you will not be asked what you thought about Ted Haggard or other people you knew in this life.

Now that you have heard about what Jesus did for you, the question to determine your eternal destiny (Heaven or Hell) will be: What did you do with the good news about Jesus Christ?

I pray that God releases his peace and love in your heart right now! Won’t come to him?

This is what Jesus meant when he said that the way to destruction was wide and many entered in by it. The way to life is narrow and few find it.
The majority of nominal christians do not represent the true followers of Christ, but only those who actually practice Christ’s teaching (these are few in number). Unfortunately the hypocrites and haters and war-mongers parade themselves more publicly than those who just wanna get on with following Jesus.

Yesssss!

Fornication
for·ni·ca·tion
n.
Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.

Point is (as you note) no matter how you parse is, fornicating can and often does lead to pregnancy. And not to be so self-promoting, but as I said up-thread about Daryll’s post… “dumbest post ever.”

By CAROL McGRAW THE GAZETTE

The three men chosen to oversee the Rev. Ted Haggard’s spiritual restoration are well-known in conservative Christian circles and are old pros at such work.

That includes a polygraph test and extensive investigation, according to the Rev. Larry Stockstill, chairman of the overseer board.

They’re gonna’ pray the gay away!

And Rev. Ted better get used to standing in a stall with two guys looking over his shoulder.

Most religious people understand “fornication” to mean intercourse between unmarried people and/or for a purpose other than procreation.

From that perspective, married couples can be “fornicators”. The same logic can be used against unfertile couples, and those who use birth control.

At any rate, whatever your take -Daryll is wrong. End of story.

(Good luck chastising people for using birth control, Daryll)

These whacko GOP Fright-Wing thecon freaks simply don’t understand how the whole sex and reproduction thing it seems.

Should read:

These whacko GOP Fright-Wing thecon freaks simply don’t understand how the whole sex and reproduction thing works it seems.

We won’t see an effect on our economy because of this issue, but this will effect our society because human reproduction will decrease.

Comment by Daryll — November 6, 2006 @ 5:25 pm

Dumbest post ever.

I noticed.

I had a reply to your last post, but it went *poof*

Oh well.

I don’t know what to tell you -Romans prayed to their gods when they wanted a son, or a good crop, to finalise a good business, or to win a battle. That is not just for social purposes anymore.

I think they considered their gods to be more like the Hindus see theirs – as guides.

I have several Hindu friends. You will have to trust me on this one. Lord Khrishna is real, and so are Ganesh, and Rama. That Hindus don’t interpret their gods as something that needs to be worshipped in a specific way or else is a whole other story.

Hindus do care more about the essence rather than the form, but Hindu gods are real, they exist (and are different from Abraham’s god or Buddha), and perform miracles for the faithful too -if you subscribe to that religion that is.

No, they were pagan symbols first – just like the wreath and tree used at Christmas were originally of pagan origins.

But Romans were pagans, understanding by ‘pagan’ anyone who is not Judeo-Christian, weren’t they?

They partially represented what they were – tools of fertility.

Right. They were religious symbols -fertility wasn’t understood as a biological process but as something the gods bestowed on people, right?

Censorship frustrates me…

Later.

I disagree. They built Greek buildings, including temples dedicated to their version of Greek gods, but used them for social purposes. I think they considered their gods to be more like the Hindus see theirs – as guides.

Official business could only be conducted after securing the gods’ favor.

It was largely ceremonial. They’d taken their culture from the Latins and Greeks, and just followed ceremony without a real faith in what they were doing. Kind of like many Christians today. They just go through the motions without understanding or believing.

This is a Christian perspective, Unbelievable. Phalli were religious symbols.

No, they were pagan symbols first – just like the wreath and tree used at Christmas were originally of pagan origins.

They partially represented what they were – tools of fertility. It’s both what I studied in art school and later was told by the Italian historian who gave us the tour. He was pretty clear on their pagan symbolism.

That was an AWFULLY long post just to say “there isn’t any secular reason to deny homosexuals the right of marriage, because there wouldn’t be any negative effects on society”.

The only remote reason you gave is that human reproduction would decrease. The only reduction in number of children born to homosexuals would be ones that have been produced in fake marriages to “pass” as heterosexual because of society’s stigma. Plus, I think we’ve got the “populate the earth” thing pretty well taken care of already.

Er, no.

The issue is whether or not having a religion -per se- impairs people to the point of not being able to make rational decisions, and whether or not religious people can make contributions to art, science, politics, or all of the above.

You said “There were 10 centuries when the occidental world was incapacitated.” in reference to the Middle Ages and as an example of a period where heightened religiosity hampered human progress.

My response to that is that religion alone cannot be blamed for that, and as counter-example I offered the classical Greek and Roman civilisations.

Whether or not there is god(s) is a whole other issue, right?

Wha!? How do you make that (il)logical leap?

Newsflash: Gay people are having sex with other gay people already, and not for the purpose of reproduction.

As a matter of fact, heterosexual couples are using birth control methods, hence having sex with a purpose other than reproduction, aka “fornicating” (gasp!).

Same-sex marriage laws would only recognise a reality. Duh!