What Ward Connerly Doesn’t Want You To Know About Affirmative Action
What Ward Connerly Doesn’t Want You To Know About Affirmative Action
Tommorow, Michigan voters will be asked to vote on Proposition 2, Ward Connerly’s proposal to amend the state constitution to ban affirmative action programs in the state of Michigan.
Connerly says affirmative action harms African-Americans, claiming it has “perpetuated the notion that black people aren’t as smart.” Connerly’s views are not supported by the facts:
– In the most comprehensive study on affirmative action to-date, author William Bowen concluded, “This notion that we have somehow harmed the intended beneficiaries, that they are victims in fact, is really nonsense. There is just not an iota of evidence, certainly in what we have looked at that would support that proposition.”
– The same study found, African American students with lower SATs who went to schools where the average was higher did much better along any dimension, were more satisfied with their school, graduated in higher numbers, and were more likely to go to graduate and professional schools.
Does Connerly think white Anglo-Saxon men feel hampered by self-doubt for the decades of preferential treatment they received over women and minorities?
(LCCR and One United Michigan have more.)
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Quotas are wrong.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:32 pmum – “Next Tuesday”???
November 6th, 2006 at 3:34 pmmichigan has another election day?
The linked comments don’t seem to mention the perception that others have of those who’ve gone to college due to affirmative action, and it doesn’t seem to cover the impact of affirmative hiring once they’ve graduated.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:38 pmMay the best person for the job or the school win. Screw Race, let the best person for the position win already.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:44 pm1 Kevin
Quotas will be wrong once we have equity in our neighborhood schools, which won’t happen as long as our country continues to depend on property taxes as the basis for funding schools.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:46 pmWhere do all the doctors, dentists, lawyers, police, emergency personel come from you pratice in, for example, predominately African-American neighborhoods? In general, they come from those same neighborhoods. Affirmative Action is not about the individual, its about our communities and ensuring they have educated people who are able to serve them.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:46 pmagreed Roger_Roger
November 6th, 2006 at 3:47 pmAffirmative Action helps African Americans get equal footing at the starting gate after centuries of discrimination. We still have a long way to go to make things equal. Saying “Mission Accomplished” while we’re only halfway there is the same stupid metality of George Bush. Screw bigotry. Screw Ward Connerly.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:50 pmScrew Roger_Roger and Kevin.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:52 pmSomeday Republicans will employ their very best argument against affirmative action.
George W. Bush.
They’re just not ready to play the white, stupid and rich card yet.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:55 pmWARD CONNERLY, you ignorant slut! I feel better now. Sombody must have scolded little Ward as an affirmative action baby. Poor booby….
Truth is until we have equal access in society and real “multiculturalism” (saw u at the country club last night, wasn’t church fun last Sunday.), we will need affirmative action. Quota’s you can argue, they are probaly best suited to specific instances as silver bullets. A.A. serves as a societal levelor. This is a very complex dynamic and cannot be condensed into a sound bite.
I guess Ward Connerly forgot he is African American. Not all of us can or want to do that.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:56 pmI assume you’re refering to “The Shape of the River”, Bowen & Bok, Princeton University Press. I illustrated this book and I can tell you it refutes just about every argument against Affirmative Action.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:58 pmAffirmative Action doesn’t make people hire minorities. The only time AA comes into effect is when a ccompany has a proven record of NOT hiring minorities. At that point, the law says “Well, rather than leave you alone, you’ve proven you can’t be trusted to do the right thing. Now, you’ve got quota’s you have to meet.”
Of course, the right-whiners will perpetuate the myths because it’s a tactic to get people on their side.
What’s really going to chafe their butts is when caucasions become a minority and would be covered under AA, but by then it’ll be removed and whites won’t have anyone to complain to when they’re passed over for hiring or promotions based on them being white.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:01 pm#10 by clb72 – ROTFL!!!
November 6th, 2006 at 4:01 pmI agree Affirmative Action is a program that is needed, but is also inherently flawed. However, its flaw is not due to how Affirmative Action itself it is setup but how our system is inherently preferential towards whites. Everything needs to be reformed from the bottom up. The worse problem is our education system, which in urban areas where minority populations predominate, is totally broken. The problem there is we have no plan and just hope that by throwing more money at it will make it better. It won’t. We need an effective plan to allow a good education for everyone of every creed, and then they can have an equal chance at jobs based on ability and then Affirmative Action itself will no longer be necessary.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:02 pmOh, and we have to eradicate the endemic racism in this country. That would help a lot.
I just read an article on it here: ToTheCenter.com
November 6th, 2006 at 4:02 pmAll I’m saying is hiring someone because of his or her race is just as wrong as not hiring them. I am of the belief that a company should always hire the best person for the job.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:07 pmWard Connerly is against the very same programs that helped him. If it wasn’t for Affirmative Action he would be just another bitter, old, ugly man. Oh wait, he is.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:13 pmI have mixed feelings about affirmative action. I’ve seen it do good things, and I have seen some real incompetents in postitions they were not qualified for.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:25 pmThere are incompetent people in many jobs and it’s usually due to nepotism, kickbacks, and sexual favors.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:30 pm1 Kevin
Quotas will be wrong once we have equity in our neighborhood schools, which won’t happen as long as our country continues to depend on property taxes as the basis for funding schools.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — November 6, 2006 @ 3:46 pm
Then I guess property taxes are the thing to go after.
I’m against Afirmitave action for a simple reason: It shouldn’t be necessary. It is already illegal to discriminate on the basis of race. Every case of possible discrimination has to be dealt with individually depending on the circumstances, not enmass, across the country based on a set of rules that is supposed to ‘encourage’ diversity. The objective is to provide the same opportunities to minorities that whites enjoy. Beyond that it is up to all of us individually to take advantage of those opportunities.
When I tell people that there will come a time when the NAACP will be considered racist, they look at me like I just screamed “God Sucks” in a crowded church. If there were no racism, then the NAACP isn’t needed, and if it existed, it would be considered the same as an organization dedicated to promoting whites and giving them advantages. And if the day where there is no racism never comes, then whatever we’re doing right now isn’t working. You can talk to me all day about the way minorities are shafted in their neighborhoods, their jobs, politics, etc.. but at the end of the day, if one person is chosen above another for anything other than ability (ie job demographics don’t match, the company only advertises in white/black/hispanic/korean etc newspapers, etc) then that is discrimination. It is about providing opportunities, not getting even, or compensating for a hundred years of inequalities. Everyone should have equal opportunity.. period.
Education, not affirmitive action is the key, much like it is with everything.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:36 pmMay the best person for the job or the school win. Screw Race, let the best person for the position win already.
Comment by Roger_Roger — November 6, 2006 @ 3:44 pm
If the playing ground were anywhere even in some employment categories in the US and there was a federal mandate to equally share revenues for all schools then your point would ring more true…It’s a shame that this is not true
November 6th, 2006 at 4:37 pmI’m going to make a wild guess here: Roger and Kevin are white guys who feel racism is a thing of the past.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:54 pmRoger: “May the best person for the job or the school win. Screw Race, let the best person for the position win already.”
Yeah. Kind of like George W. Bush was the best candidate for a position at Yale.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:55 pmI am voting against this ill conceived legislation.
MD
November 6th, 2006 at 5:12 pm“Connerly says affirmative action harms African-Americans, claiming it has ‘perpetuated the notion that black people aren’t as smart.’”
BULL. Affirmative action does not support the idea that African-Americans are not as smart…the whole point is to thwart people who hold that idea! There are a lot of people who don’t want to believe that racism still exists in this country…but it does. How else can you explain a story which I recently saw in one of my local newspapers on real estate brokerage? The newspaper sent two male members of their staff, one white and one black, on an undercover assignment in which they posed as renters looking for a new apartment. Despite the fact that the background information for both supposed applicants such as income and employment credentials were purposely kept virtually identical, the white applicant was typically shown apartments with more square footage for the price than the black applicant was. I think it’s a safe bet that if things like this are still happening in relation to housing, they’re still happening in other areas as well…even if the people involved may not be consciously aware of it.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:14 pmDoes Connerly think white Anglo-Saxon men feel hampered by self-doubt for the decades of preferential treatment they received over women and minorities?
Ward Connerly believes whatever they tell that token to believe, otherwise he wouldn’t have a job.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:16 pm.
Roger: “May the best person for the job or the school win. Screw Race, let the best person for the position win already.â€
Kind of like how George W. Bush was the strongest candidate for a position at Harvard Business School?
November 6th, 2006 at 5:30 pmRoger, without affirmative action, one of your favorite supremes, Justice Clarence Thomas, wouldn’t have gotten into Law School (according to him.) Just thought you should know.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:44 pmRoger, Conde Rice was an outspoken supporter of affirmative action when she was Provost at Stanford University. So, she was for it before she was against it. What a flip-flopper. Outrageous, huh?
November 6th, 2006 at 5:48 pmTexas Juice and all the rest. Tell me, do YOU discriminate? I don’t. Do YOU need affirmative action to tell you to be fair to everyone?
Yes, there are losers in society that will never be fair to everyone, but for the most part discrimination is illegal.
Since discrimination is not legal, why are we discussing making CERTAIN types of discrimination LEGAL! That’s what affirmative action is, it’s legalized discrimination.
It’s a slap in the face to everyone it is SUPPOSED to benefit, because it says they cannot get ahead in the world on their own. It’s a slap to everyone who already gives everyone equal opportunity.
I think affirmative action is unnecessary. Especially in my area, there are no BLACK or WHITE schools, they are all very well integrated, and access to libraries, and computers are equal to all.
Of course we are more middle of the road here than democrat, OR republican.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:52 pmDougy: “That’s what affirmative action is, it’s legalized discrimination.”
That’s YOUR definition, not necessarily THE definition. And the fact that some white guy thinks it’s unnecessary, is irrelevant.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:56 pmDouglas G., there are black and white schools, maybe not de jure segregation but definately de facto. The fact is discrimination still exists. Just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. By your reasoning, which should stop prosecuting murder because homicide is illegal.
You need to read the book about affirmative action FIRST before you insist affirmative action in unnecessary.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:58 pmDear progs – Of course Dems and progs MUST uphold the nebulous concept of affirmative action. Leftist political parties have been in bed with the corrupt and vile teacher’s unions, whose members often do such a poor job educating their minority students that they should be ashamed. It is disgusting to note the half-truths promoted by the affirmative action “guilt wads”. The most glaring: failure to note the GRADUATION rate of students admitted under affirmative action programs.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:12 pm#33, actually, by my reasoning, since murder is against the law, we SHOULD prosecute, and since discrimination is against the law, technically, so would be affirmative action.
Also, to discriminate against ANYONE is a violation of law, so in the war of words, someone who was discriminated AGAINST because of affirmative action, would have cause for legal recourse, because they were discriminated against.
Affirmative action needs to go, and active respect for ALL of our anti discrimination laws needs to be followed.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:17 pmDear Doug – Don’t you wish Progs had the moxie to admit they approved of subtle racial discrimination in an effort to right the wrongs of the past. and be done with it? But Progs – earn some respect for a change – call it what it IS.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:24 pmWard Connerly is an idiot. Affirmative Action is such a blessing.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:49 pmActually what I really want is an equal playing field for everyone, progs, bugs, pugs, demoncrats. idiots, and all other associated riff raff.
We need to quit finding ways to waste time, and start just dealing with everyone farily.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:18 pmThis issue always exposes conservatives for the elitists they are. The reason: they wouldn’t think of eliminating “legacies,” affirmative action for the powerful.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:19 pmI hate to break it to you little Dougie, but the only people who even use the term “riff raff” are elitists.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:32 pmDouglas we would treat everyone fairly in a fantasy world, but this is reality my friend wake up. The only good conservative is a former one. Speaking for the riff raff, you can go blog on one of those so called conservative sites if you hate us so much. You my misguided friend are exactly what wrong with so called conservatives. You people hate everyone who does agree with you rigid views of society. It’s not your business if a women wants an abortion. You don’t catch me wondering what color underwear your wife or girlfriend wears do you. That’s because it’s not my business if she swallows or spits either. That’s up to her! I have an opinion to that, but I shouldn’t be telling her what to do, right.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:34 pmP.S. Jewish parents STRESSED education – not hand-outs….
November 6th, 2006 at 8:53 pmHey, MA, the Jews got a lot of handouts didn’t they? Wow.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:20 pmFord, Lindberg, Prescott Bush…MA loves em all.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:39 pmWhites have far more benefitted statistically from Afirmative Action that blacks. White women are a title 7 minority and the number of working age white women in America out numbers the whole population of blacks. I wish we didn’t need Afirmative Action in America but you can see discrimination in the CVD ranks of companies, finance, NCAA football (yeap, count the number of black head coaches vs the number of black players), judicial branch, .coms etc. There’s work that still needs to be done to even the playing ground and AA helps not hurts.
Thx
November 7th, 2006 at 12:32 amYay, AA helps black people. Let’s not forget that it creates institutionalized racism that is discriminatory against white people. The way to fix racism is not with more racism.
November 7th, 2006 at 10:59 am#58, actually it’s more discriminatory towards black people, in that it either by illusion, or by design, denotes an atmosphere that certain groups of people are unable to excel on their own merit, and fosters hatred.
Instead of enforcing laws of non discrimination, it provides for legalized discrimination.
November 7th, 2006 at 11:21 am#59, Douglas G.,
The first part was sarcasm. I too believe that it lowers the standard for minorities simply on the basis of skin color, and this is of course discrimination. This kind of legislation, just like the garbage going on with sexual harrassment, is creating victims where there aren’t any to be had. If AA were based on income (at least when applied to, say, the University of Michigan), I think it would do some good. But in its present form, worthless, institutionalized racism.
November 7th, 2006 at 12:50 pmThe thing that gets me most is that in the last two elections (Gay Marriage in 2004), we voters in the State of Michigan have had referendums restrictring the rights of various minorities. The Crow Restoration Initiative eliminates affirmative action for not only blacks but also for other ethnic minorities but for women too. Essentially, a bunch of white men voted to lower and strengthed the glass cieling. With that precedent, who’s rights are we going to vote on next election?? Who are we going to tell that you’re not as one of us as you think?? Who will we vote off the island?? How long will it be before I’m voting on whether or not I have the rights of full citizenship??
November 9th, 2006 at 4:36 amOkay, so the main point of those sitting against affirmative action is that a member of the majority may very well be denied a position for which they are more fit than their minority counterpart who was hired because the company has equal rights lawyers breathing law suits down their neck.
Now don’t get me wrong: I am quite aware that racism exists in America. I work with the public every day and I see and hear white, blacks, asians and hispanics alike make racist comments in regards to each other.
For both these reasons, I know that affirmative action is a catch-22. Somewhere someone’s rights are going to be sacrificed to ensure that another’s rights are granted.
And is it fair? Well, you know, something’s got to give somewhere, I suppose: its as fair as unfair can get.
November 9th, 2006 at 11:17 amAffirmative Action is needed in this country more than ever before… the legacy of African-American disenfranchisement, notwithstanding the wrongs perpetrated against Africans from the beginning of the African Holocaust in the 15th century, has created an American society of Blacks that are for the most part, socioeconomically disadvantaged… this MUST be substantively addressed,or things may only get worse. The apparent un-attentativeness to this glaring issue by the euro-american ‘gate-keepers’ is a clear indication of their apathy… To ALL Afican-American’s who will LISTEN, Educate yourselves(increase your awareness) the best way that you can…work together, as much as you can, talk, network…there are others from out-side the black community that have our best interests in mind…just not as many as you think.
Peace and Love,
Dave Myers
http://www.discussrace.com
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:14 pmAffirmative Action is needed in this country more than ever before… the legacy of African-American disenfranchisement, notwithstanding the wrongs perpetrated against Africans from the beginning of the African Holocaust in the 15th century, has created an American society of Blacks that are for the most part, socioeconomically disadvantaged… this MUST be substantively addressed,or things may only get worse. The apparent un-attentativeness to this glaring issue by the euro-american ‘gate-keepers’ is a clear indication of their apathy… To ALL African-American’s who will LISTEN, Educate yourselves(increase your awareness) the best way that you can…work together, as much as you can, talk, network…there are others from out-side the black community that have our best interests in mind…just not as many as you think.
Peace and Love,
Dave Myers
http://www.discussrace.com
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:19 pm