Rove’s irritated
By on Nov 6th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Rove’s irritated
that Flordia gubernatorial candidate Charlie Crist decided “not to appear with President Bush at a rally in Pensacola.”
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O waaaaaaaaa
Rove is using the delusions of religious people to get them to vote against their own self-interest.
Of course, if people grew up and realized that god, easter bunny, and santa are all myths, then Rove would be neutralized.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:13 pmCould the reality be creeping in for Turd Blossom? Seems like he’s getting a little uptight – This from the AP Story:
“All I know is that yesterday morning, they (Crist Campaign) apparently made a decision that rather than being with the governor and the president and 10,000 people in Pensacola, they made a last-minute decision to go to Palm Beach,” Rove said. “Let’s see how many people show up in Palm Beach on 24 hours notice versus 8- or 9,000 people in Pensacola.”
November 6th, 2006 at 4:17 pmNobody WANTS to appear with Bush these days. Some unfortunates have to because that’s their BEST strategy… poor bastards.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:17 pmRove added, “Mommy, the other kids don’t want to play with me anymore. Is is because I always lie to them and the only game I like to play is called ‘rob the poor and give to the rich’?”
November 6th, 2006 at 4:18 pmSeems Mr. Turd Blossom is a bit uptight as reality sets in:
“All I know is that yesterday morning, they apparently made a decision that rather than being with the governor and the president and 10,000 people in Pensacola, they made a last-minute decision to go to Palm Beach,” Rove said. “Let’s see how many people show up in Palm Beach on 24 hours notice versus 8- or 9,000 people in Pensacola.”
November 6th, 2006 at 4:18 pmShake, rattle and Rove
You’re being abandoned in Droves
All your puppet pols
Will throw you in the Hole…
You may substitute trolls for pols, if you wish
November 6th, 2006 at 4:18 pmJust wait until Wednesday, Rovie boy. We’ll see just how annoyed you can get!
November 6th, 2006 at 4:18 pmranting tommy – cut the anti-religion crap…
November 6th, 2006 at 4:18 pmYOU ARE NOT HELPING.
.
I think he better get used to it.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:20 pmI think it is about time to seize Rove’s passport. We don’t want him to slip the noose.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:20 pmWhat are you really getting at, RantingTommy.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:21 pmPoor Rove, his empire crumbles around him as his skill at dirty campaigning meets incompetence in governing.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:21 pmRove wants the GOP to loose?
November 6th, 2006 at 4:21 pm#
ranting tommy – cut the anti-religion crap…
YOU ARE NOT HELPING.
.
Comment by katy — November 6, 2006 @ 4:18 pm
You’re right, I’m not helping Rove, and I refuse to. Anyone pushing the existance of gods IS helping Rove.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:22 pmRove is irritating not irritated.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:24 pmthis crist guy is losing momentum to the democrat, who has gained about ten per cent on crist in the past month…
i love seeing the war-criminal thrown under the bus by republicans…doesn’t it just feel great!!!
stealing 2008 via voter fraud will be more of a challenge for rove since he will not have the governors and the attorneys-general of florida, ohio, pennsylvania, and illinois…
vote early and vote often!!!
November 6th, 2006 at 4:24 pmDid Rove oversleep?
November 6th, 2006 at 4:24 pmDoesn’t he know that time’s running out for the October surprise?
What?
You mean that it’s already November?
How sad to see the death of genius.
#
What are you really getting at, RantingTommy.
Comment by RealScientist — November 6, 2006 @ 4:21 pm
Just pointing out that religion has been the enabler for the rise of both Al Qaeda and the Republicans.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:24 pmIt’s about time the Mighty and Powerful Oz was exposed as just a fat old bald man by a little yippie dog…
November 6th, 2006 at 4:26 pmKarl Rove if you are mad at Charlie Crist now, then OUT him as a closeted hypocrite homosexual since you know he is one like you > lol.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:26 pmThe ‘base’ is unto you Rover.
Of course, if people grew up and realized that god, easter bunny, and santa are all myths, then Rove would be neutralized.
Comment by RantingTommy
Huh. What about the great pumpkin?
November 6th, 2006 at 4:26 pmRanting Tommy
Again, I ask, in what state are you licensed as a psychologist, qualified to render a diagnosis of “insane” for those who have a belief in God?
November 6th, 2006 at 4:27 pmRove needs therapy and understanding.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:31 pmDog named Boo
You’ve been called to duty – post #20!
November 6th, 2006 at 4:32 pmUncle Karl better get used to living with disappointment.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:32 pmRove was reportedly heard to say, “That’s it Charlie Crist! No extra Diebold votes for you!”
November 6th, 2006 at 4:32 pmTommy the word God does not necessarily denote a human form, magic man in the sky, many use it to describe the all that exists or ‘Reality’ Others see God as Action. In the Krishna they call the Stars in the Sky ‘Godheads’
November 6th, 2006 at 4:33 pmKKKARL ROVE and W, they were the basis for “Pinky and the Brain”. You know who the BRAIN was….
Could it be the hour of rekoning is at hand??? Probaly not but it is drawing closer…I am PRAYING for HAROLD FORD and JIM WEBB and hoping they win their seats. Those are tough. Is Tenn still RACIST??? Can Bubba vote for Harold Ford even though his earnings have stayed flat under W and his nephew or friends son have gone off to fight and maybe die in Iraq, for WHAT?
Will Bubba reject tax cuts for the rich. which he is not…will he vote for the party that truly wants to progress society or will he vote for the party that wants him to “know his NASCAR place” and lets him, no, helps him lay blame at the feet of blacks and hispanics (legal and illegal) for his plight and perceived problems in this great nation.
Wake up America, Karl and W are not you and me…
Texas Juice
Karl may look like you Bubba, so might W, but they are in 1000.00 suits and know country clubs like you know KFC. Don’t be fooled this time KARL isn’t inviting you to his party even if he can get your vote.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:34 pmJust pointing out that religion has been the enabler for the rise of both Al Qaeda and the Republicans.
Comment by RantingTommy
And the Amish who forgive those that murder their children. Maybe some other people in this world should take the Amish (rather than spouting tommy) as an example…
November 6th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI saw a damn bumper sticker, “we vote pro-life”
That said it all, people will vote for just one issue, even if it means they have to give up their legs and be in a wheelchair.
Democrats should just say, vote for us, we will do what you want us to do.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:38 pm#23 – I don’t need one.
Do I need an art degree to tell that the sky is blue?
Do I need a degree in politics to know Bush is a liar?
Why would I need a degree in psychiatry to know someone that declares belief in non-reality is insane?
I know Charlie Manson was insane, no degree needed. BTW, he thought there was a magic man in the sky, too.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:38 pmTurblossom soils his panties
November 6th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI thought liberals were supposed to support free speech?
You may not like what someone has to say, but stop telling people to shut up. It makes you a hypocrite.
If you don’t wanna hear an opinion different from yours, then don’t read those people’s posts. But telling them to shut-up is making you no different than the conservatives who think anyone who disagrees with them should be silenced.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:40 pmActually Tommy my God is a frog, but he isn’t a frog!!
November 6th, 2006 at 4:41 pm[Its alll around you! Air, Water etc etc Actions!]
Credibility….
November 6th, 2006 at 4:42 pm#19 RantingTommy
I don’t believe in God, either, but I don’t see the point in ragging on those who do. It’s a belief. It’s not something that requires proof of or proof against. If someone’s trying to jam their religion down your throat, that’s a different story. But, be respectful of people’s beliefs as you’d want them to be respectful of your non-beliefs.
And, besides, it’s way off-topic. I don’t think Karl Rove believes in anything but his ability to bullshit the American people. And I have a strong feeling he’s about to have his whole belief system blown to hell.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:43 pmLook at the back of your dollar bill Tommy, do you see Jesus on a Cross or do you see a pyramid with a light at the top?
November 6th, 2006 at 4:44 pmFor those interested in arguments against the existence of God, please read “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins. Ranting Tommy is right. The very basis for the radical right wing in America is fundamentalist Christianity. Why is it not ok to debate and defend one’s religious beliefs or lack thereof the same way one is expected to justify one’s political beliefs? Civilization can no longer afford to treat religious faith with kid gloves.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:45 pmSukit Rove.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:47 pmRove is annoyed because his/Bush’s betrayals of Republican conservatives and evangelicals are causing them to vote for Democrats or to not vote at all. They are no longer ignorant or guillible enough for him to successfully exploit and manipulate. A Democratic House majority will restore legitimate oversight and investigations requiring sworn testimony before Democratic led committees will expose much of what the Republican majority had previously covered up. The people who took their marching orders from Bush’s brain are going to have to choose between incriminating themselves or ratting out their leadership. Rove isn’t iritated, he’s scared shitless.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:48 pmIt is not off topic to discuss Rove’s use of religious delusions in a thread about Rove.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:48 pmOh the troubles,
November 6th, 2006 at 4:49 pmOh the pain…
To have the job
of Bush’s brain.
All your efforts
are in vain…
You’re just a Turd,
going down the drain.
unbelievable…good point.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:50 pmI disagree with some here,but they DO have the right to speak..
Hey, Rove! How’s that Mississippi Gulf Coast reconstruction that you were put in charge of going?
I’m happy because you’re not.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:51 pmAwww, poor Rovie-poo. Now I’m all sad.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:55 pmAmerica’s Least Wanted
Hey Rove-hole, your boss is political poison and you made him that way. One frigging genius you are, you turned a man with the support of the nation and the world into the mosti divisive decider the ever.
I hope you miss all those furtive meetings with Jeff Gannon in the Whitehouse closet you loser.
-GSD
November 6th, 2006 at 4:55 pmIt is not off topic to discuss Rove’s use of religious delusions in a thread about Rove.
Comment by RantingTommy
Correction; Rove is abusing the beliefs of these people for his deluded ideologies, not theirs.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:56 pmJust pointing out that religion has been the enabler for the rise of both Al Qaeda and the Republicans.
Comment by RantingTommy
And the Amish who forgive those that murder their children. Maybe some other people in this world should take the Amish (rather than spouting tommy) as an example…
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 4:38 pm
No offense intended to the Amish, and I think Ghandi was a wonderful human being, but Hitlers response to both of them would have been the same: “Less work for me if they don’t resist.” All it takes for pacifism to suddenly become suicide is an enemy who doesn’t care if you’re extinct. Someone other than a pacifist has to ensure their survival. They CAN’T do it.
That having been said, the Amish would never invade Iraq, but neither would they have come to the aid of the Europeans in WWII, or defended themselves after Pearl Harbor or kept the Jews from becoming extinct because of Hitler.
The problem with religion is not the belief in a magic-man in the sky, but the fixation on their place in the afterlife. They are so worried about the next life that they forget to try to make THIS life better.
November 6th, 2006 at 4:56 pmsimplicio (love the name and reference)
To me it is not only acceptable, but essential, that once a person intrudes their religious faith or absence of it into the political arena that there be challenges. However, personal faith or absence of it that is private and does not intrude into politics should be treated with respect, which does not mean agreement, contrary to some.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:00 pmMaybe Karl Rove should direct those robocalls at Mr. Christ’s home tonight. Check out Josh Marshall’s coverage of this as it is excellent. Meanwhile, one of the National Review nitwits is upset that he has gone four phone calls in the last couple of weeks. Try four phone calls in five minutes!
November 6th, 2006 at 5:00 pmRanting Tommy, it may not be off-topic, but it is definitely off-putting. Maybe you should consider the fact that most people on this board problably agree with you on politics and leave it at that.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:00 pmBecause thats exactly what drives them to vote as a group instead of free thinking sovereign individuals..
November 6th, 2006 at 5:00 pmWhy are people ganging up on Tommy? These neocons , ie Bush or anyone who follows Bush, who claim to be better than everyone else because of a belief are insane.
I read about this lady in Georgia who still supports Bush because she believes he is a christian. That is the definition of insanity right there.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:00 pm#39 simplicio
Why is it not ok to debate and defend one’s religious beliefs or lack thereof the same way one is expected to justify one’s political beliefs? Civilization can no longer afford to treat religious faith with kid gloves.
Because it’s like listening to a French person speaking French, and telling them they’re speaking English incorrectly. Knowledge and belief are two different universes. There’s no point in trying to debate a belief. What are you going to do when (not if, but when) the believer refuses to accept the logic of your argument? Beat them up? Have them thrown in jail?
I can logically deny the likelihood of God’s existence. I can point out logically how most people’s beliefs about God are contradictions or are even nonsensical. But, I can’t disprove the existence of God. Nobody can. And I have no more interest in disproving God’s existence than I do in proving it.
If you’re going to get bent out of shape because someone believes in something you think is nonsense, good luck getting along in life. It’s going to be uphill all the way.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:01 pmHere’s what irritated Rove:
But Crist isn’t canceling appearances with all national Republicans. He was joined by Arizona GOP Sen. John McCain, the maverick senator who often finds himself at odds with the White House, at a rally in Jacksonville Monday afternoon.
that’s like salt in the wound.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:02 pmLet’s see how many Diebold vote KKKarl Rove can steal.
I sure hope it’s not Turd Blossom who gets the last laugh on Wednesday.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:02 pmIt is not off topic to discuss Rove’s use of religious delusions in a thread about Rove.
Comment by RantingTommy — November 6, 2006 @ 4:48 pm
I am beginning to think you are a troll, since you are so inclined to derail the conversation.
Discussing Rove’s manipulation of religion is not off-topic, but your belittling of religious people is way off the mark.
Your self-assured diagnose of religious people as “insane” is laughable.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:03 pmFor those interested in arguments against the existence of God, please read “The God Delusion†by Richard Dawkins. Ranting Tommy is right. The very basis for the radical right wing in America is fundamentalist Christianity. Why is it not ok to debate and defend one’s religious beliefs or lack thereof the same way one is expected to justify one’s political beliefs? Civilization can no longer afford to treat religious faith with kid gloves.
Comment by simplicio
Ranting Tommy is not “right” …
The idea of whether a god exists or not is irrelevant to his argument. Religions can have moral virtual despite what fairy tales they have in their books. Take Zen for example. It is a religion. yet is not about gods and demons etc. Same with christianity. Jesus had moral truths he was telling that are not exclusive to “god” reasoning. His truths are the same ones in the U.S. Constitution. Many of the Jesus parables are the same truths from Zen Koans.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:05 pmActually Tommy my God is a frog, but he isn’t a frog!!
[Its alll around you! Air, Water etc etc Actions!]
Comment by Dog_named_Boo — November 6, 2006 @ 4:41 pm
I know several people who have redefined god from Jesus’s daddy to something natural – like the electric field we all live in. I did too for a while, but then realized that by saying I believed in god, that people thought I supported their hypocritical organized viewpoint.
I’m certainly willing to say that the electric field in which we all exist- that thing that seperates us from a rotting corpse could be something spiritual… but to call it god doesn’t work for me… Because it’s better than what the word god represents.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:07 pmI heard someone comment that Rove is a “genius” in the same way that cigarette companies were “geniuses’ in that they convinced sick and dying smokers that cigarettes didn’t cause cancer, emphysema or heart disease. American soldiers and Iraqi civilians are needlessly dying in Iraq as a direct result of the “genius” of Karl Rove.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:07 pmGot an irritated turd blossom?
Sounds like a Job for
PREPERATION H
November 6th, 2006 at 5:07 pmBecause it’s like listening to a French person speaking French, and telling them they’re speaking English incorrectly. Knowledge and belief are two different universes. There’s no point in trying to debate a belief. What are you going to do when (not if, but when) the believer refuses to accept the logic of your argument? Beat them up? Have them thrown in jail?
I can logically deny the likelihood of God’s existence. I can point out logically how most people’s beliefs about God are contradictions or are even nonsensical. But, I can’t disprove the existence of God. Nobody can. And I have no more interest in disproving God’s existence than I do in proving it.
If you’re going to get bent out of shape because someone believes in something you think is nonsense, good luck getting along in life. It’s going to be uphill all the way.
Comment by chimpeach — November 6, 2006 @ 5:01 pm
But see that’s the problem. Politics is a lot about belief. We KNOW the republicans don’t have a plan and couldn’t give a ticks butt-hair if they did right now, but we can’t prove it, so officially its a belief. We’re allowed to call it stupid, insane, and even dangerous to agree with the Republicans simply because they insist they’re right.
However, it is legally okay but socially unacceptable to do the same with a religion. If you do, you are intolerant and rude. The difference is supposed to be the depth of that belief. Religion is supposed to be all encompassing, something you base your entire life around. Never mind the fact that most people simply go through the motions and tend to bend the rules when it doesn’t suit them, rationalizing it away when they are called on it, whereas the Republicans are apparently willing to kill other people, risk wrecking the country and in some cases to kill for their beliefs.
Yeah.. that’s a real balanced standards we have there. Thank you, but I’ll go ahead ridiculing religion any time I find a stupid rule in it (and that will be a lot) I consider it a responsibility as a free-thinking life form to question what doesn’t make sense and demand explanations. Don’t like it? Tough.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:09 pmCivilization can no longer afford to treat religious faith with kid gloves.
Comment by simplicio — November 6, 2006 @ 4:45 pm
I agree. We have just as much right to speak out against a philosophy or belief system as those people have to speak out for it.
Telling people to shut-up is not progressive.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:09 pmunbelievable…good point.
I disagree with some here,but they DO have the right to speak..
Comment by wisedup — November 6, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
Thanks. It just upsets me when liberal start trying to censor…
November 6th, 2006 at 5:11 pmThat having been said, the Amish would never invade Iraq, but neither would they have come to the aid of the Europeans in WWII, or defended themselves after Pearl Harbor or kept the Jews from becoming extinct because of Hitler.
The problem with religion is not the belief in a magic-man in the sky, but the fixation on their place in the afterlife. They are so worried about the next life that they forget to try to make THIS life better.
Comment by Swordsbane
That is the secret of a democracy. It is about a circle of wise people each sharing their strengths to create a composite stronger than any one of them.
It is the same idea as how medical science isnt all about science. There are also ethicists that the scienctists work with to act as experts on going “too far”.
The Republican warmongers + the pacifist Amish + the civil rights Democrats == A strong America that never commits wars of aggression, but DOES go to war to protect the weak and stop tyranny without turning the losers of the wars into slaves…
If you look at the times when America has gone wrong it is because one group refused to listen to the other groups when making calculations.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:11 pmggibson, Dawkins doesn’t really see Zen as a religion. He sees it as a way of living. Among the differences are that Zen does not demonize those who do not agree.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:13 pmThat terrorist needs INDICTED!
So the mass murdering Christian terrorist is annoyed?
Man, that baby killing monster needs to be indicted and stand trial for his crimes against humanity.
Send him to the Hague and hand him over to the people of Iraq for justice and maybe then he’ll find out how “irritating” things can get for him.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:13 pmI consider it a responsibility as a free-thinking life form to question what doesn’t make sense and demand explanations. Don’t like it? Tough.
Comment by Swordsbane — November 6, 2006 @ 5:09 pm
Well said. I couldn’t agree more.
Religious people are allowed to say all sorts of horrible things about the non-religious. Why do they get a higher standard than we do? Especially when their actions have caused war, violent deaths, and destruction – and our are just words?
November 6th, 2006 at 5:18 pmI can find many stupid rules in the law books, what good does it do to attack a book when it’s the people who created it?
You can no more attack the bible for a lying ass politician than you can attack the Bible for Haggards lies.
It simply isn’t responsible for these mens actions.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:19 pmThe thing that irks me is that Malveaux refers to McCain as a maverick. What the hell is all that about? That is lazy journalism and biased as well. Clearly CNN has bought the GOP spin.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:20 pmggibson, Dawkins doesn’t really see Zen as a religion. He sees it as a way of living. Among the differences are that Zen does not demonize those who do not agree.
Comment by Bluedog49
Exactly which is why the liberals discredit themselves everytime they bitch about the religious right and then demonize anyone who “dares” be religious even if not religiouos right… dont be hypocrites. Escpecially if the democrats get the government back dont use the Patriot act to rape the christians… dont start gloating and acting like asses like the neocons and their cheerleaders have been acting … otherwise you are no different from them.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:21 pmReligious people are allowed to say all sorts of horrible things about the non-religious. Why do they get a higher standard than we do? Especially when their actions have caused war, violent deaths, and destruction – and our are just words?
Comment by unbelievable
Because leading by setting the example is the way to go… it is what christians are supposed to do. If the non-christians act just like the religious right then all you get is a circle of a bunch of jerk offs poking each other in the eye.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:23 pm#63
Rather than ridiculing religion, I think you’d be better off pointing out to those people how their actions or votes are inconsistent with their own beliefs. But, all you’re going to accomplish by ridiculing religion is to end up with a lot more enemies than you had to begin with.
You have a right to be pissed about people who claim to be Christians saying that Bush is a good Christian. They don’t even understand their own religion and appear to be just making it up as they go along. Regardless of ones beliefs, I think that’s just terribly disrespectful to the memory of a great person like Christ. As far as I’m concerned, they might as well be spitting on him.
But, that doesn’t justfiy going around ridiculing people for having religious beliefs. There’s a huge distinction.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:24 pmDid Jeb attend this rally? Can’t locate anything on the web about it.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:27 pmAny time Rove’s irritated I’m a happy camper.
He should be really irritated that his party is losing 40-50 seats in Congress tomorrow.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:28 pmThey still have the audacity at CNN to call McCain a “maverick” ?
November 6th, 2006 at 5:33 pmRight.
http://thumbsnap.com/v/vR4GzUeg.jpg
That, to me, is the problem with group think.
Lets take say a group of thieves, neither get a higher standard, until you ask group A about group B. Group A says, of course, we are better than group B.
From Religion to Football it’s the same contest. Who’s better. My God or My team?
November 6th, 2006 at 5:34 pmSwordsbane
I like wine, you might be a tea-totaler. I like cashews, you might prefer peanuts. I am Christian, you are atheist. No science, truth, facts, or “sense” is involved – only differences in preference. We have harmony when those differences are respected, that is simply allowed to be. If one of us demeans, oppresses, or denies the other that preference, we have disharmony and immorality.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:34 pmif the democrats get the government back dont use the Patriot act to rape the christians… dont start gloating and acting like asses like the neocons and their cheerleaders have been acting … otherwise you are no different from them.
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 5:21 pm
There is a VAST difference between speaking out against your oppressors and being oppressive.
Reality shows that those who have been persocuted (and the non-religious are), tend to not reciprocate – unless they are religious. Revenge, it seems, is a religious trait… not a Humanistic one.
So, your argument is speculation without merit.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:35 pmHas the smirk gone from Dubya face yet?
That’s what I’m waiting for.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:36 pmThat is the secret of a democracy. It is about a circle of wise people each sharing their strengths to create a composite stronger than any one of them.
It is the same idea as how medical science isnt all about science. There are also ethicists that the scienctists work with to act as experts on going “too farâ€.
The Republican warmongers + the pacifist Amish + the civil rights Democrats == A strong America that never commits wars of aggression, but DOES go to war to protect the weak and stop tyranny without turning the losers of the wars into slaves…
If you look at the times when America has gone wrong it is because one group refused to listen to the other groups when making calculations.
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 5:11 pm
But the Amish don’t want our protection. They want to be left alone, but if we granted their wish and made them responsible for protecting themselves, they wouldn’t. And it IS religion that makes people act this way. Ghandi, for instance decided that killing would destroy his soul, so he would rather have died than killed someone else. That’s all very good for him to say that and he’s a better man than I for believing it, but he sold it to others based on the idea that by peacefully resisting they could accomplish anything. If he hadn’t been dealing with a (relatively) rational nation like Britain, he might have been tragically proven wrong. He would have been the first to die demonstrating it and he would be a sad footnote to history instead of the great man of peace he is revered as. Certainly if he had run into a racial purist like Hitler, he would have been toast. Against some people, peaceful resistance is just a non-moving target; easier to hit. I don’t consider that a strength. It is an idea, and an extremist stance, and extremist stances are rarely a good idea for a society to embrace.
And they are dangerous ideas. The bible has caused more bloodshed because of it’s ideas than any other publication in the history of mankind. If it wasn’t a religious book it would be banned in the United States as more dangerous than the Anarchists Cookbook. Instead we protect it. It is a personal choice, we say. Some say (wrongly) that it is the foundation that our country was built on. We protect it better than we protect the rights our constitution grants us. We protect it in spite of the harm it does, not because of the good things it does.
All in all, a funny way to run a country.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:38 pmRemember, everyone! If you have any problems voting on Tuesday, MSNBC says you should call the National Voter Hotline at 1-866-MYVOTE1.
Those numbers again:
1-866-MYV-OTE1.
1-866-698-6831.
Good luck!
November 6th, 2006 at 5:38 pmBecause leading by setting the example is the way to go… it is what christians are supposed to do. If the non-christians act just like the religious right then all you get is a circle of a bunch of jerk offs poking each other in the eye.
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 5:23 pm
You prefer people jsut stop speaking then if they disagree?
I’m saying that if one side gets to have their say, then so too should the other side. My point was that if Christians can criticize Athiests, then denying Atheists the right to criticize Christians is hypocritical. And after all, words don’t kill people.
And certainly, better to have a heated argument than to start killing, torturing, bombing, etc. the people who are unlike you. Wouldn’t you say?
November 6th, 2006 at 5:39 pmPeople’s personal religious beliefs used to not be an issue in the political arena. But now that the radical right wing has tapped into the masses of people who base their entire lives on things they have no evidence for, the sanity of religious beliefs is on the table. The best thing that can happen for America and the world is if credulous, willfully ignorant people who believe the bible is literally true and that the Earth is 6,000 years old simply live out their lives with their comforting illusions and stop injecting their ignorance into the political discourse.
As to not being able to prove God does not exist, I can’t prove lots of things don’t exist. I can’t prove there are no unicorns. I can’t prove there isn’t a purple elephant wearing a spacesuit orbiting Mars. I can’t prove Zeus doesn’t exist. But I don’t believe in any of these things. But you know what, if people choose to believe such things on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, so be it. Whatever gets them through their life and gives them peace of mind. But what makes the current religious fervor dangerous is that these people want to base real-world decisions on their unprovable religious beliefs. This is what holds up stem cell research, causes people to refrain from handing out condoms in Africa to fight AIDS, and makes people not worry about creating a sustainable civilization because, after all, Jesus will return to rapture them up within their lifetime. Faith, the encouragement to give utmost value to things you have no evidence for has dangerous consequences for our world. And it needs to be said out loud and often.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:40 pm“Foolish rules of ancient date
Designed to make you all feel great
While you bend, fold and mutilate
Those unbelievers in the neighboring state.”
— Frank Zappa
November 6th, 2006 at 5:42 pmFrom Religion to Football it’s the same contest. Who’s better. My God or My team?
Comment by Dog_named_Boo — November 6, 2006 @ 5:34 pm
And why Bush thinks his god is on his side when Osama thinks his god is on his and they start killing one another’s team members.
Tommy just called someone a name. Hardly the same thing.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:43 pmPreferring cashews to peanuts is a taste and it’s about something real and tangible. Religion is not.
Speaking of “Peanuts,” Linus believed in “The Great Pumpkin” who flew through the air on Halloween night delivering presents to all the children of the world. When he tried to proselytize about it he was ridiculed although nobody forced him not to believe. But children’s fantasies are usually harmless and a part of growing up. It’s when those beliefs are carried into adult life and people start killing each other, or demonizing others who don’t believe as they do, or trying to take away civil rights, that you realize that religious belief is a mental illness. But if 85% of Americans want to choose mental illness over mental health, it’s definitely not going to do any good to tell them that. In fact, it might get you killed.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:46 pm#79 Very nicely stated. Sounds kinda like the founding principles of a certain country we know, doesn’t it?
November 6th, 2006 at 5:46 pmFaith, the encouragement to give utmost value to things you have no evidence for has dangerous consequences for our world. And it needs to be said out loud and often.
Comment by simplicio — November 6, 2006 @ 5:40 pm
And no matter how much those who ‘believe’ don’t want to hear it.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:47 pmPLC: “We have harmony when those differences are respected, that is simply allowed to be. If one of us demeans, oppresses, or denies the other that preference, we have disharmony and immorality.”
Do you respect agnosticism? How about polytheism? Do you respect paganists or wiccans? Because, I don’t see a lot of respect for those philosophies in our culture.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:52 pmSo, your argument is speculation without merit.
Comment by unbelievable
Go read RantingTommy comments again and tell me there is no merit. He is acting just like the neocons. Attacking anyone that dares be religious. I am NOT religious. I completely have given up on all of that since I was a teenager (now in my 30s). Just because I KNOW in my most inner parts that when I die … dust in the wind… does not mean that everyone else has to have that same perspective or else they are INSANE…
November 6th, 2006 at 5:53 pmsimplicio
Again, I agree with your position. I am concerned that if a person starts their argument about this position with “Religious people are so stupid that…” there is no dialogue because the other person will not hear anything else.
Preferring cashews to peanuts is a taste and it’s about something real and tangible.
The preference, the taste is NOT objectively tangible. Besides, my point is that the preference is an opinion, not factual, and therefore, not debatable. Religious beliefs are not debatable in the same way that the actions which come from them can be. I might share some religious beliefs with the fundamentalist Christian Pharisees, but I certainly do not share their actions. Let’s discuss the actions, which we can objectively see and not the underlying beliefs which we cannot.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:59 pmFor moral sake, VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!! I recently had the honor of meeting George Allen Friday. I’m really impressed with his views.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:02 pmAll in all, a funny way to run a country.
Comment by Swordsbane
Ghandi may have acted very differnt if faced with Hitler. Take the Dali Lama for example. His people faced the Chinese. They knew their peaceful ways would not work on them and tried to fight… and eventually the Dali fled. You cant say that the way Ghandi chose is worthless. It depends on the situation. If the Amish were faced with Hitler you very well may see them pick up guns.
As far as your criticizing this country for protecting religion.. that is a WONDERFUL way to be cast out of power and never let in again… keep it up if you want to be a loser.
If you cannot distinguish between a peoples right to be religious and people that abuse religion then what is the difference between you and Stalin?
November 6th, 2006 at 6:02 pmDo you respect agnosticism? How about polytheism? Do you respect paganists or wiccans? Because, I don’t see a lot of respect for those philosophies in our culture.
Comment by Bluedog49
Yes, I do, although I may not agree or prefer to accept those beliefs for myself. And, more importantly, I respect the holders of those beliefs, at least unless and until their beliefs impinge on my rights.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:02 pmdoes not mean that everyone else has to have that same perspective or else they are INSANE…
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 5:53 pm
But it’s his right to think that… and say it outloud… which was my original point.
I figure he’s just escaped his religious past and is angry. He’ll mellow out a bit when he’s had the chance to vent his frustrations with having wasted years of his life being a devout member of a religion based on a lot of nothing real. I said on another thread that my own brother was like this when he gave up religion. Angry for having been deceived. And I personally think that’s it’s better that he vent his frustration through words than hurt people… and worse.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:05 pmIt is the eve of an (hopefully) Historic vote,
November 6th, 2006 at 6:06 pmAnd this is what we get?
A pissing match of the existence of an all-knowing being?
WAKE up!
We are on the precipice of a dictatorship/the ruin of our country vs. freedom and the American way.
Can we focus our karma on that, please?
plc, et al – you see, just when you think you night be making headway a nut job like Daryll rears its ugly head to prove Tommy’s point!!
November 6th, 2006 at 6:06 pmYou prefer people jsut stop speaking then if they disagree?
I’m saying that if one side gets to have their say, then so too should the other side. My point was that if Christians can criticize Athiests, then denying Atheists the right to criticize Christians is hypocritical. And after all, words don’t kill people.
And certainly, better to have a heated argument than to start killing, torturing, bombing, etc. the people who are unlike you. Wouldn’t you say?
Comment by unbelievable
WTF are you talking about?
Is this Bill O’Reily using unbelievable as his posting name?
Who is denying anyone ANYTHING? Have you gone mad? Are you pissed that someone calls out RantingTommy? Did anyone threaten RantingTommy to stop posting? Are you trying to stop me from responding to him? WTF are you trying to say?
RantingTommy can AND HAS said any damn thing he wants. And I have called him out for his childish point of view just as I have every neocon that has got on here and acted like their shit dont stink.
You dont like that? Get bent. You sound just like Ann Coulter. Oh no! We cant respond because you have an opposing arguement!!! Who the hell said you cant respond? Who?
November 6th, 2006 at 6:07 pmFor moral sake, VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!! I recently had the honor of meeting George Allen Friday. I’m really impressed with his views.
Comment by Daryll
If you were moral Daryll, you would have appologized for the attacks on the democrats when you falsely accused them of smearing, your “godly” Pastor Ted.
You said some nasty things that were not true.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:08 pmA real christian would have apologized by now. You haven’t
For moral sake, VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!! I recently had the honor of meeting George Allen Friday. I’m really impressed with his views.
Comment by Daryll — November 6, 2006 @ 6:02 pm
Huh? You consider it moral to start a war over oil, invade a country that had not attacked us, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent children, steal from the poor to give tax cuts to the rich, revoke our civil liberties, take bribes from lobbiests, be pedophiles, drug-users, philanderers, etc?
Daryll, Jesus is mad at you. You’re supposed to vote Democrat – the people who want to feed the poor, like Jesus did – and work toward world peace. Jesus is really mad Daryll. You better vote against that false prophet Geoege “macaca” Allen or he’ll send you some where very, very hot…
November 6th, 2006 at 6:10 pmPLC,
I agree with you that you can’t call someone stupid and then expect them to listen to you. On the other hand, anyone who insists that the Earth is 6,000 years old (roughly half of the U.S. population) is choosing willful ignorance and boasting it with pride because it says so in the bible. How does one have a rational dialogue with someone who chooses to reject reality?
In order to be seen as a tolerant person, do I really have to give equal consideration to someone’s belief that God breathed life into dirt and created us instead of the well-supported and testable scientific theory of evolution? It’s really not just “you say tomAHHto, I say tomAto.” And like I said, it used to not matter very much that a significant fraction of the US population willfully chooses ignorance, but now it does. They are the rock solid base for the corrupt Republican party. And we are seeing the danger that ensues when the party in power knows they have a solid block of people who will never question them because they have “faith.” My position is that it is unquestioning faith itself which is at the root of the problem.
And as you rightly point out, taking this position strikes many as intolerant and unnecessary. My question is, if we continue to give faith a privileged status in our public discourse, then how will we ever be able to challenge people to come up with good reasons for the way they vote? Currently, if someone says “I vote my faith” that’s a conversation killer. It is impolite to push the dialogue further. I think that needs to change.
Would we consider someone fit for office who believes that Elvis is still alive? NO. However, currently, we have a president who literally thinks he can communicate with God and who believes the bible is literally true. That is scary.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:11 pm#
For moral sake, VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!! I recently had the honor of meeting George Allen Friday. I’m really impressed with his views.
Comment by Daryll — November 6, 2006 @ 6:02 pm
I am the Grand Wizard of the Imperial Ku Klux Klan and I approve this message.
White Power!
-GSD
November 6th, 2006 at 6:12 pmso be it. Whatever gets them through their life and gives them peace of mind.
Comment by simplicio
That should be the standard. As far as the religious right… well of coarse you are correct. Their witch hunting tendancies are dangerous. They get themselves all stired up into a frenzy and then can commit any evil act and think it justified… ever see the twilight zone where the towns people attack a guy just because his car starts and none of theirs will… humans can act in a mob mentality. The way around that is NOT to attack their religion… it is to educate them on the difference between the unthoughful acceptance of anything they are told and reasoning for themselves. Sometimes you can do that through education … sometimes through setting an example.
When the Nazism used their “christian” beliefs to attack people it was evil. When Stalin used his hate for religious people to destroy them that was evil. The balance can be found in the U.S. Constitution. Seperation of Church and State AND Freedom of Religion are of EQUAL importance.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:13 pmJules
I think Daryll and Ranting Tommy are the polar opposites of the same stick. I find both to be egocentric, grandiose, mean-spirited, and intolerant. Just my opinion.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:14 pmIf I believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus, should I respect people to respect my beliefs and consider me for public office? NO.
If I believe that Jesus will come back down to Earth within my lifetime during the end times, however, I’m a viable candidate. Never mind that believing in the end of days theology leads people to neglect the creation of a sustainable planet for future generations to live on. Why should someone who believes God will end the world soon bother to worry about developing alternative energy sources or global warming? Jesus is just going to come and save the righteous. This is a dangerous belief system that has very real implications for our species. It is imperative to have a dialogue regarding the virtues of such beliefs based on nothing more than the bible.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:16 pmWTF are you talking about?
Oh, that’s mature…
Is this Bill O’Reily using unbelievable as his posting name?
Ad hominems? And you talk about us losing credibility for calling others ‘crazy’?
Who is denying anyone ANYTHING? Have you gone mad? Are you pissed that someone calls out RantingTommy? Did anyone threaten RantingTommy to stop posting? Are you trying to stop me from responding to him? WTF are you trying to say?
To stop telling him to shut-up, because that’s exactly what people were doing. Ganging up on him, and trying to insult him into silence.
You have a short temper.
RantingTommy can AND HAS said any damn thing he wants. And I have called him out for his childish point of view just as I have every neocon that has got on here and acted like their shit dont stink.
And you don’t take it very well when you get called out for your hypocrisy… clearly.
You dont like that? Get bent. You sound just like Ann Coulter. Oh no! We cant respond because you have an opposing arguement!!! Who the hell said you cant respond? Who?
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 6:07 pm
Wow, your true colors come out. What a little obnoxious brat who can’t debate the issues and has to resort to attacks, bullying and cursing. LOL. My six year old niece has better manners than you.
here’s the first post telling him to shut-up: “ranting tommy – cut the anti-religion crap…
YOU ARE NOT HELPING.”
Get it yet, or do you just need to be nasty to get your way? Won’t work on me.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:17 pm#100 Yes, people did threaten Tommy to stop posting.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:17 pmggibson,
Agreed that education is the way forward. But when you’ve got millions of people who take the bible to be literally true and get such comfort out of that belief, how do you reason with them? This is a group of people who actively seeks ignorance in regards to scientific facts about our origins like evolution simply because it threatens their comfort zone. Pointing out how wrong the bible is about scientific matters (and morality in the old testament) is off-putting and causes people to be defensive, but why should someone expect respect for believing the Earth is 6,000 years old? No one wants to start respecting people who believe in UFOs or that Elvis is still alive. Why are irrational religious beliefs treated any differently?
November 6th, 2006 at 6:21 pmI think Daryll and Ranting Tommy are the polar opposites of the same stick. I find both to be egocentric, grandiose, mean-spirited, and intolerant. Just my opinion.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian
Bingo
November 6th, 2006 at 6:22 pmTo stop telling him to shut-up, because that’s exactly what people were doing. Ganging up on him, and trying to insult him into silence.
Comment by unbelievable
Talking about a conspiracy theory … maybe I missed it but I didnt see anyone tell him to shut up… as far as ganging up on … well that is what are done on these blogs… duhh… Daryll comes on here in all his egocentric glory and what do we all do … gang up on him …
November 6th, 2006 at 6:24 pmPLC – People like Daryll I will never get. But I think I understand what Tommy was getting at.
People like you do not stand up and scream about your religion. You do not hold it up as if it makes you a more moral person. At least that is not what I see from what you have written at TP. It seems as if is a part of who you are, not ALL of who you are. People like Bush and Rove who use religion to gain power I believe are sociopaths. Then there are those who would follow them no matter what they do because they believe Bush is a christian. My opinion is that these people are either crazy or stupid. Take your choice. Anyone who will give Bush a pass on what he has done to this country and the world because they believe he is a religious man cannot be all there.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:24 pmggibson – you missed it!!!
November 6th, 2006 at 6:27 pm“ranting tommy – cut the anti-religion crap…
YOU ARE NOT HELPING.â€
Comment by unbelievable
ok so someone said that… who cares? I believe I saw you tell them to back off and then you went on attacking everyone that argued with him… as far as my language… well I tell you the same thing I tell my boss… get over it… this is America.
And as far as hypocrisy … are you not telling us to SHUT UP and leave poor little tommy alone? heheh … ya … and where is my hypocrisy? Can you show it? I didnt think so. If I take on the neocons you are ok with that… if I take on some raving lunatic that hates all religious people … well I have gone too far… hehehe..
November 6th, 2006 at 6:28 pmWhy are irrational religious beliefs treated any differently?
Comment by simplicio — November 6, 2006 @ 6:21 pm
The examples you list are only true for Bible literalists. Most denominations do not think the Earth is 6,000 eyars old, and do not read the Bible literally.
To persist in saying that all religious people are wackos bent on converting you, or boiling you if you don’t, is an oversimplification.
For instance, Catholics do accept the Theory of Evolution as the most likely explanation for the diversity of life in our planet. Episcopalians just named a gay Bishop.
Not all denominations are the same. If you make a more pointed comment about Bible literalists, you have a very strong argument. When you extend it to include all of them, well, you miss the mark.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:29 pm#100 Yes, people did threaten Tommy to stop posting.
Comment by Republicans are the fear and smear party
Where?
I saw ONE #1 person say he wasnt helping … dont tell me your so sensitive you take that as a threat…hehe… jeese…
November 6th, 2006 at 6:30 pmHow the heck did this thread degenerate to a religion argument?
Oh, I see RantingTommy
RantingTommy has been attacking plc and others in other threads too.
I am about as anti Organized Religion as anyone can be, but RantingTony has gone over the line in most the threads I have seen him post.
Debate on the issue is fine, but personally attacking someone for their belief is wrong. RT went over that line into wrong.
I respect anyone’s personal belief, long as you don’t try to convert me. We have freedom of religion in this country and that also includes freedom from someone pushing theirs on everyone else, like the repugs and the laughable “Moral Majority” try to do.
My perspective as a student of many religions and philosophies? The Wiccans have the best example because they LIVE BY “Do what ye will, but harm none”
Christianity AND Islam has the blood of innocents on their hands because they have tended to, historically, kill anyone who doen’t believe what they believe.
When you take up the religion, make sure you understand you also take the innocent blood shed by that religion onto your own hands. Your choice. Mine is not to follow hypocritial “churches” ofany religion.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:32 pmGhandi may have acted very differnt if faced with Hitler. Take the Dali Lama for example. His people faced the Chinese. They knew their peaceful ways would not work on them and tried to fight… and eventually the Dali fled. You cant say that the way Ghandi chose is worthless. It depends on the situation. If the Amish were faced with Hitler you very well may see them pick up guns.
As far as your criticizing this country for protecting religion.. that is a WONDERFUL way to be cast out of power and never let in again… keep it up if you want to be a loser.
If you cannot distinguish between a peoples right to be religious and people that abuse religion then what is the difference between you and Stalin?
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 6:02 pm
I never said that Ghandi’s way was worthless. It worked, when and how he used it, but I can envision when and how a “peace at all costs” tactic will get one result, your extermination. Ghandi actually stated in one of his speeches that there was never a cause in which he was prepared to kill. Against Hitler, to whom extermination was already being conducted, you tell me what the result would be.
And I never said that protecting the right to practice religion was a bad thing. I said that protecting it just because it is religion IS wrong. The United States Constitution protects free speech and freedom of thought. On that basis, and ONLY that basis should it protect religion. Instead, religion get’s a tax exemption, our government houses promote Christianity, we raise up Creationism to be equal to Darwinism, priests are allowed to be shuffled around a chruch when they should be in court defending themselves from pedophile charges, we protect the sanctity of marriage when it is only sactified because it is (in this country at least) religious in origin. The social mood of this country is such that because I don’t believe in God, I am somehow a threat to others when I really couldn’t care less. I don’t advocate limiting any religious folk in whatever they want to do, but like I said, I’m going to call them as I see them. My life and the lives of my friends and loved ones depends on it.
I don’t ridicule religion. I ridicule stupidity. It just so happens that where I find one, I often find the other. I’m not going to say “hands off” just because it happens to have a particular label attatched to it.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:33 pmDaryll comes on here in all his egocentric glory and what do we all do … gang up on him …
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 6:24 pm
You chose not to get it. Your choice. And your choice to be an ass. Whatever. There is no debate with poeple like you. Just as there is no debate with those who believe Jesus loves them…
November 6th, 2006 at 6:34 pmAgreed that education is the way forward. But when you’ve got millions of people who take the bible to be literally true and get such comfort out of that belief, how do you reason with them? This is a group of people who actively seeks ignorance in regards to scientific facts about our origins like evolution simply because it threatens their comfort zone. Pointing out how wrong the bible is about scientific matters (and morality in the old testament) is off-putting and causes people to be defensive, but why should someone expect respect for believing the Earth is 6,000 years old? No one wants to start respecting people who believe in UFOs or that Elvis is still alive. Why are irrational religious beliefs treated any differently?
Comment by simplicio
I grew up with these religious right types… I work with some of them. I have debates with them in the office and they keep coming back to me saying well what about this… and they go on about how the sun is making the world hot not just polution… and you know what? I REASON with them… “Well if the sun is making the world hot why would we be so stupid to make things even hotter?” Then they go and try to find some other point they can get me on…. and I walk over and pull up google and show them how wrong they are… and on and on it goes… THAT is how you do it. Most of the “CRAZY” religious right people are not that crazy… they just dont want to lose their security blanket… if you let them keep their blanket and reason with them they change… they will NOT stop believing in GOD but who cares as long as they stop trying to force positions that are bad for the country….
Take for example the death penalty… they say they are pro-life… then why are they not trying to stop the death penalty? Why are they not the first to try to stop unjust wars? Stare them striaght in the eye and ask them if they are pro-life how can they support these other things? Not all of those people are like I-RIGHT-I …. in fact most of them are not… when they hear people like RantingTommy they stop listening and assume that their preacher is right and the non-christain world is OUT TO GET THEM… That CAUSES them to act nuts…
November 6th, 2006 at 6:35 pmIt is the eve of an (hopefully) Historic vote,
And this is what we get?
A pissing match of the existence of an all-knowing being?
WAKE up!
We are on the precipice of a dictatorship/the ruin of our country vs. freedom and the American way.
Can we focus our karma on that, please?
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 6:06 pm
Perhaps you didn’t see my post because you were all so busy with your various beliefs…..
Who gives a freakin’ crap?
We are here because we care about our country and the direction it has taken.
Can we *please* drop the religion thing and focus on our commonality – our Country???!!!
November 6th, 2006 at 6:41 pmThere is a vast difference between telling someone they cannot speak their mind, and calling someone hypocritical for oppressing them. That fact that you don’t get that ggibson is not surprising…
And your temper tantrum shows you to not to be someone who reasons with people as you say you do. Your actions do not match your words.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:41 pmInstead, religion get’s a tax exemption, our government houses promote Christianity, we raise up Creationism to be equal to Darwinism, priests are allowed to be shuffled around a chruch when they should be in court defending themselves from pedophile charges, we protect the sanctity of marriage when it is only sactified because it is (in this country at least) religious in origin.
Comment by Swordsbane
Very true… the seperation of church and state is being violated in this country.
I don’t ridicule religion. I ridicule stupidity. It just so happens that where I find one, I often find the other. I’m not going to say “hands off†just because it happens to have a particular label attatched to it.
Comment by Swordsbane
And you should NEVER stop that. If a religious person says something stupid… call them on it. As in refute their claim… dont threaten their right to exist or their right to be stupid… Dont ever be afraid to call it as you see it and let them do the same without it degenerating into a fight… ever see the movie “V”? If we EVER let others tell us that we cannot disagree then we will all end up like that comedian that gets his face bashed in right before he gets the black bag…. and that goes for the religious and non-religious… defend their rights as well as your own…
November 6th, 2006 at 6:43 pmFor instance, Catholics do accept the Theory of Evolution….
After years of torturing people who did not believe as they did
November 6th, 2006 at 6:45 pmCan we *please* drop the religion thing and focus on our commonality – our Country???!!!
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 6:41 pm
More like trying to be polite by not saying anything.
The Religious Right have hijacked our country. Rove is one of their masterminds… it’s clearly a relevant issue to be discussing in teh hope of taking back our country. And reviving the support for seperation of church and state.
For too long, we non-religious have been expected to tolerate the abuses of religious beliefs on our system. Where has that gotten us? I agree with Simpactico that we can’t fix what’s wrong if we don’t first acknowledge the problem.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:46 pmThere is a vast difference between telling someone they cannot speak their mind, and calling someone hypocritical for oppressing them. That fact that you don’t get that ggibson is not surprising…
And your temper tantrum shows you to not to be someone who reasons with people as you say you do. Your actions do not match your words.
Comment by unbelievable
Pray tell… how can someone oppress someone on a blog? (Other than the managers of the site itself)
But if it makes you feel better I will say “You win.” or… “You are right.”
It doesnt bother me to say that… you know what I really think …hehehe.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:47 pmFor instance, Catholics do accept the Theory of Evolution….
After years of torturing people who did not believe as they did
Comment by Republicans are the fear and smear party
Thats called PROGRESS….
Hmmm…
November 6th, 2006 at 6:48 pmIt doesnt bother me to say that… you know what I really think …hehehe.
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 6:47 pm
Did you say you were twelve? Sheesh…
I was trying to have a civil conversation with you and you suddenly flipped out over nothing, and called me O’Reilly and Coulter when I’m a very vocal liberal Atheist. Doesn’t exactly make me care what you think after that…
November 6th, 2006 at 6:51 pmRove needs to have the ever-loving shit kicked out of him. Then, if he ever again does even one of the nefarious things he has done, he should get the ever-lovin shit kick out of him again, and again and again.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:53 pmMore like trying to be polite than to say something directly to you, Unbe-
Can we please drop it?
November 6th, 2006 at 6:54 pmAs the pendulum of life swings the goal for America should be balance. The RIGHT has gone too far and now the pendulum is starting to swing back. What will we do? Over react right back at them? Will we become everything that Rush Limpballs said we were out of revenge for what they have done? Will we go from ultra right to ultra left both of which are disaster? When the aristocracy was finally over thrown in Russia did balance take its place? No. Stalin did. Lets not attack as we have been attacked. Lets do as we would want done to us not what they have done to us. Only then will the Middle Way be found. I oppose Pat Robertson. And RantingTommy. Neither is good. It is like Chavez… how many of us get a chance to be seen before the whole world and talk? Wasnt there a million better things that he could have said that were true besides calling Bush “The Devil”? Yes. But he squandered the chance and made himself look like a teenager. Look for The Middle Way. And i mean that literally … go to Google and type in “The Middle Way” …
November 6th, 2006 at 6:56 pmHi, Trueblue! I’m staying out of the above religion wars, but I do agree with Simplicio for the most part.
Just lurking here before I head home to watch Keith, thought I’d say hi.
I’m getting really nervous about tomorrow, but I know that there’s nothing I can do except vote. Hopefully we’ll all be in a better mood on Wednesday!
See you tomorrow.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:59 pmCan we please drop it?
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 6:54 pm
No. Sorry.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:59 pmI grew up with these religious right types… I work with some of them. I have debates with them in the office and they keep coming back to me saying well what about this… and they go on about how the sun is making the world hot not just polution… and you know what? I REASON with them… “Well if the sun is making the world hot why would we be so stupid to make things even hotter?†Then they go and try to find some other point they can get me on…. and I walk over and pull up google and show them how wrong they are… and on and on it goes… THAT is how you do it.
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 6:35 pm
You mean like this:
You dont like that? Get bent. You sound just like Ann Coulter. Oh no! We cant respond because you have an opposing arguement!!! Who the hell said you cant respond? Who?
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 6:07 pm
What a hypocrite.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:02 pmHi, Jane,
Guess I’m going to have to leave as well.
I am nervous about tomorrow, but I think any funny business will be met with massive protests.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:04 pmWe’ll have to let them have their recess histronics, I guess.
Then the adults can speak.
Crist should send Rove an UP YOUR ASSagram
November 6th, 2006 at 7:06 pmYou dont like that? Get bent. You sound just like Ann Coulter. Oh no! We cant respond because you have an opposing arguement!!! Who the hell said you cant respond? Who?
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 6:07 pm
What a hypocrite.
Comment by unbelievable
Hello???? You specifically told me to STOP debating with Tommy… and why? Because you imagined in your head that the debate was me telling Tommy to SHUT UP …. even though those words were NEVER used any where in this thread except by you… spin spin spin… all you want … but anyone can read this thread and see you went nuts because someone told poooor tommy that he wasnt helping…
November 6th, 2006 at 7:07 pmGoodnight, Trueblue!
Goodnight, everyone, I’m going home to my atheist husband now (I’m glad he left earlier!)
‘Til tomorrow!
November 6th, 2006 at 7:08 pmThe problem with religion is not the belief in a magic-man in the sky, but the fixation on their place in the afterlife. They are so worried about the next life that they forget to try to make THIS life better.
Comment by Swordsbane — November 6, 2006 @ 4:56 pm
Yes-Yes-Yes. Well put. That is why they do not care about global warming, over fishing, pollution. a large deficit. I am o.k with the religous if they keep it in check. Let’s be real here, the belief in a “God” is just a way to try and cheat death. This is the greatest “snake oil” you can sell.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:13 pmCongressional republicans have worked to maintain a system of forced slave labor and forced abortions in the Northern Marianas. Daryll, I think you need to back and check the definition of “morals.”
November 6th, 2006 at 7:15 pmHello???? You specifically told me to STOP debating with Tommy…
I specifically said that people should stop telling him to shut-up. NOT the same thing as not debating him.
Shutting him up is denying him the right to debate. So, therefore you’ve invalidated your own argument… Thanks…
and why? Because you imagined in your head that the debate was me telling Tommy to SHUT UP …. even though those words were NEVER used any where in this thread except by you…
I didn’t say anyone specificallyu said “Shut-up Tommy”, I said that people were trying to shut him up, silence him, keep him from speaking… There’s a difference. If you don’t understand that, pitching a temper tantrum and being extremely nasty and derisive doesn’t exact;y fit in with your ‘reason with others’ philosophy, now does it?
spin spin spin… all you want … but anyone can read this thread and see you went nuts because someone told poooor tommy that he wasnt helping…
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 7:07 pm
The reality is that two people have already read this thread and commented on our exchange. They both agreed that you were wrong…
I don’t care that you don’t agree with me, I just think you are being a huge hypocritical jerk and am calling you on that. And will continue to do so. After all, you now seem to be supporting Tommy by doing exactly what he did – being insulting and outrageous. LOL
November 6th, 2006 at 7:17 pmI wonder which moral value of Allen’s Daryll liked, the confederate flag or the noose?
November 6th, 2006 at 7:22 pmI mean this in the nicest way, Unbe-
Can you just get laid and stop being such a pit bull about the atheist thing?
Aye Aye Yi!
We are all here for a common reason.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:28 pmYou telling me (”No, Sorry”) and everyone else here, says that your opinion is above everyone elses.
I though us Dem’s accepted everyone.
Just chill, please.
Ha ha!
November 6th, 2006 at 7:29 pmggibson, unbelievable, trueblue,
Can we stop this acrimony, please?
I really don’t care who said what to whom.
Let’s focus on what’s important: Sharing information, points of view with other like-minded individuals, and learn from each other. I trust that is the reason why we were all drawn to this blog in the first place.
Let’s let this bitternes be bygone. Shall we?
November 6th, 2006 at 7:34 pmGregor,
I’ve been asking for it to end – Twice!
Please don’t lump me in!
November 6th, 2006 at 7:36 pmShutting him up is denying him the right to debate. So, therefore you’ve invalidated your own argument… Thanks…
Comment by unbelievable
OK I see you have a vivid imagination.. cool … no problem .. but when you are ready for reality again … there is something you should know … only the people that moderate this website have any PHYSICAL way to shut someone up … for the rest of us it is called “debate” …
P.S… I would re-read the thread … several people pointed out that pooor tommy wen over board…
November 6th, 2006 at 7:37 pmread my posts….. please.
I only had to say it because she told me, “NO!” to a compromise.
I am not part of this crappola.
November 6th, 2006 at 7:37 pmThanks, Gregor
I’ll tell you what’s good for irritation Karl…swinging on the end of a rope…..
November 6th, 2006 at 7:48 pmin a children’s playground near the swings….very good for tnesion, but we dont have to tell you about children’s playgrounds do we…
November 6th, 2006 at 7:52 pmI mean this in the nicest way, Unbe-
Can you just get laid and stop being such a pit bull about the atheist thing?
Aye Aye Yi!
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 7:28 pm
Only if you can get laid and stop being a pitbull about telling me what to do.
The condescention doesn’t really give you much credibility.
Sheesh.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:02 pmI’ve been asking for it to end – Twice!
Please don’t lump me in!
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 7:36 pm
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but that guy who said that you whine unless you get your way was right. You’re doing it now.
The more people tell me to shut up, the louder I will be. Try me. I have no patience for those who are unwilling to tolerate free speech. And I don’t care what side of the aisle you claim.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:06 pmOK I see you have a vivid imagination.. cool … no problem .. but when you are ready for reality again … there is something you should know … only the people that moderate this website have any PHYSICAL way to shut someone up … for the rest of us it is called “debate†…
You wouldn’t know reality if it bit you. And your strawmen are pathetic.
Telling someone to ‘drop it’ is not debate. It’s a demand.
http://www.dictionary.com It’s free.
P.S… I would re-read the thread … several people pointed out that pooor tommy wen over board…
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 7:37 pm
I never said he didn’t. I just said that he has a right to speak his mind. As usual, you need to twists what I say to avoid responsibility for being hypocritical. Explains why you thought to project your delusions of ‘vivid imagination’ on me. LOL.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:10 pmYah.
Attack anyone who doesn’t lockstep with your Atheism.
Why can’t you accept other people’s beliefs, like we accept yours?
Just let it go.
That’s right,… You told me, “No.” earlier.
No one has any right to enforce religion or lack of onto anyone else, and that’s what you are guilty of.
I asked twice, G. Samsa asked,….
you are too blinded by having to be right.
How about those twin towers?
You do the same thing there.
YOU are right. WE are all wrong.
Can’t you just *please* accept other people’s opinions and move on?
November 6th, 2006 at 8:12 pmand stop attacking katy. She’s an old woman, and a worthy person of Think Progress.
I only had to say it because she told me, “NO!†to a compromise.
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 7:37 pm
“Drop it ” is not a compromise. It’s a demand. And you got pissy because you were ignored, so you re-posted your demand. And when I didn’t capitulate, you insulted me by assuming I needed to have sex. Nice.
A compromise is going to another thread and leaving us to this one, as several people were involved in the discourse and not just me posting by myself…
What is your problem?
November 6th, 2006 at 8:13 pmComment by unbelievable
The problem is you are a lefty version of a righty.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:20 pmYah.
Attack anyone who doesn’t lockstep with your Atheism.
That’s absurd. It’s like calling black people oppressors of white people. Fallacious and untrue.
Why can’t you accept other people’s beliefs, like we accept yours?
I do. I just stand up to the hypocrites. Show me once where I’ve attacked your beliefs.
Just let it go.
That’s right,… You told me, “No.†earlier.
Oh, because you say, I am supposed to just shut up? No is right. I don’t have to do what you tell me. You have some imagined problem, you deal with it. Don’t read my posts. But stop telling me what to do, and then attacking or insulting me when I don’t do what you want me to do.
And, for the record, there were several others in here who are Atheists, who regularly pojnt out the hypocrisy in religion, but yet you single me out.
No one has any right to enforce religion or lack of onto anyone else, and that’s what you are guilty of.
I’m not forcing my view, I’m pointing out the ypocrisy in the Christians who are trying to force tehir views. Big difference.
I asked twice, G. Samsa asked,….
you are too blinded by having to be right.
Just because you ask doesn’t mean I have to obey. Get over yourself. Life isn’t about getting your way or demonizing those who refuse to stand down on issues that are inportant to them.
How about those twin towers?
You do the same thing there.
YOU are right. WE are all wrong.
It’s not just me. There are several others who agree with me. I only argue about the towers because I do have a knowledge of building design. It’s my right to debate the issues. Sorry if you can’t handle that, but my opinion of myself isn’t tied to you. You can be a passive mouse if you want, but don’t get angry if I refuse.
Can’t you just *please* accept other people’s opinions and move on?
It’s you who cannot accept mine. And no, I’m not going to do what you say no matter how much you try to bully me.
and stop attacking katy. She’s an old woman, and a worthy person of Think Progress.
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 8:12 pm
LOL! Its is katy who routinely attacks me. She started it and despite my asking her to leave me alone, she instigates it. I stopped reading 99% of her posts several months ago and haven’t spoken to her since.
In fact, why don’t you do the same and stop speaking to me. Clearly it is you who does not respect my right to my beliefs, as I have NEVER told you to stop having a conversation or attacked you. I don’t need you telling me how to behave when obviously, you can’t follow your own ideology.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:27 pmWhat is your problem?
Comment by unbelievable — November 6, 2006
You, at the moment.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:27 pmYou never let go. You never accept.
You are doing it again and again….
We have bigger fish to fry.
Stop with the “I’m right because I’m an Atheist” stuff. Learn to accept.
Learning to accept people is wrong?
We are all different.
We need to respect each other’s differences. Not cram a view down someone else’s throat.
You don’t KNOW if there is a God or not. Imperical evidence? Of Course Not!
You believe one way. At least respect someone who feels the other.
That’s what I’ve been trying to say to you for hours now – first hints, and now full blown because you keep pushing and pushing.
Please,… can we go to the issue at hand????
Tomorrow? Votes?
The problem is you are a lefty version of a righty.
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 8:20 pm
Yes, you are. You cannot accept others who disagree with you so you call them silly names. A real liberal would have had a discussion.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:29 pmwhich you have been spewing since post 35!
Let it go, for your own health.
Let go of your obvious anger.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:31 pmI’ve been nice. You haven’t.
Comment by unbelievable
The funny thing is you DONT disagree with me… we are both atheists.
You are stuborn however. You somehow got it in your head that someone had some kind of power to make RantingTommy stop posting when clearly that is not possible. You then go on and on ad nauseum at every post anyone makes commenting on RantingTommy posts saying “dont tell him to shut up” … “stop telling him to shut up” … “tommy has the right to say what he believes like everyone else” … and NO ONE IS TELLING HIM TO SHUT UP… it is all a delusion in your head…. sound familiar?
November 6th, 2006 at 8:41 pmwhich you have been spewing since post 35!
You’re forgetting I deal with children who regularly try to get their way through such tactics… Doesn’t work for them and it certainly won’t work for you.
Let it go, for your own health.
LOL… I’m not angry. Just because I don’t sugar-coat things doesn’t mean I’m angry. I’m just not afraid to go nose-to-nose with the bullies and call them on it.
Let go of your obvious anger.
I’ve been nice. You haven’t.
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 8:31 pm
You’re being passive-agressive. That’s not nice. It’s manipulative.
And you were both insulting and condescending after I said no and sorry. That’s not nice either.
You called me intolerant and tried to guilt me into appeasing you. Also not nice.
Nice would have been accepting that we weren’t going to stop having the debate and going to join another thread, having accepted that we wanted to continue. But you wouldn’t accept that we weren’t going to do things your way and you started insulting me.
I’m brutally honest. Not interested in changing that. You can keep demanding, but you’ll keep being disappointed.
I suggest you skip my posts, stop telling me what to do, and quit trying to guilt me into obeying you. It won’t happen.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:42 pmI was asking if we could move on, but you are rabid.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:49 pmThere’s no reasoning with a rabid person.
You are as bad as the righties. You just don’t realize it.
I feel badly for you, Unbe-
I’m hoping your mind will open up in time.
I have no ill feelings toward you whatsoever.
That’s what a real progressive does.
Accepts.
Moves on.
The funny thing is you DONT disagree with me… we are both atheists.
Good.
You are stuborn however.
Yes. And so are you, which why we are still here. Had you never insulted me, I’m sure the dialog would have gone much differently. In fact, our cause could always use the discussions.
You somehow got it in your head that someone had some kind of power to make RantingTommy stop posting when clearly that is not possible.
Seriously, that is not what I said nor intended. When believers tell non-believers to be quiet, I call them on it. I am not delusional. I know that people can’t physically make him be quiet.
I just don’t think so-called progressives should tell him to stop posting. Fine to askhim to tone it down, but that wasn’t what happened.
We are expected to respect the religious beliefs of others, but we do not get that same respect of espousing our views in return. At least not most of us. Maybe you live in Portland or Seattle where it’s different – but I live in Georgia.
You then go on and on ad nauseum at every post anyone makes commenting on RantingTommy posts saying “dont tell him to shut up†… “stop telling him to shut upâ€
So? According to your logic, you going on ad nauseum telling me to stop defending him is not really any different, now is it?
… “tommy has the right to say what he believes like everyone else†… and NO ONE IS TELLING HIM TO SHUT UP… it is all a delusion in your head…. sound familiar?
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 8:41 pm
Familiar? Yep, you’re repeating yourself yet again.
People did tell him to stop posting here and on another thread. You can deny that, but it doesn’t stop it from being true.
November 6th, 2006 at 8:52 pmI was asking if we could move on, but you are rabid.
But you, continiuing to debate this issue aren’t? You don’t see how that’s hypocritical refusing to do the very thing you’re criticizing me for?
There’s no reasoning with a rabid person.
You’re proving that by doing the exactly opposite of what you’re telling me to do…
You are as bad as the righties. You just don’t realize it.
Again, you have no valid point, so you try to insult me into capitulation. Sad.
I feel badly for you, Unbe-
How condescending. Well, I feel worse for you. You just chitter chatter here, and occasionally insult Judd. At least I have something of substance to say.
I’m hoping your mind will open up in time.
Look whose talking, the people who couldn’t let others finsih their debate, had to intervene and tell them what was right. Okay, Revend, you made your point. I just won’t be manipulated.
I have no ill feelings toward you whatsoever.
You sure aren’t acting like it. You’re treating me with condescention. My friends don’t treat me that way. Go read it – you said that I should get laid. LOL… You don’t even get it. You refuse to look in the mirror, and instead outwardly judge others who won’t obey your commands. How terribly progressive of you.
That’s what a real progressive does.
Accepts.
Moves on.
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 8:49 pm
Oh, so you’re the official definer of what is and what isn’t progressive…. I see.
Funny, I thought you agreed with what Spudge said the other day after we politely disagreed with him on capital punishment, that progressive can agree to disagree. You refuse to allow me to disagree.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:01 pmComment by unbelievable
Lets end it like this shall we?
You live in Georgia… I live in Indiana… religious intolerance SUCKS!!!
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL
Agree?
Cool me to.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:10 pmI never disagreed with Spudge. Capital Punishment?
Was never there.
Wrong-O.
I feel you can disagree, but you have dominated this thread by arguing since #35.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:10 pmI’ve been asking to accept and move on.
Clearly something you are incapable of.
I feel so sorry for you.
I hope you work on your anger issues.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:12 pmPema Chodron is wonderful.
Lets end it like this shall we?
End… or begin. :)
You live in Georgia… I live in Indiana… religious intolerance SUCKS!!!
Agreed
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL
And women (I’m a Feminist :)
Agree?
Sounds like it…
Cool me to.
Comment by ggibson — November 6, 2006 @ 9:10 pm
Cool.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:13 pmI never disagreed with Spudge. Capital Punishment?
Was never there.
Wrong-O.
Wrong-O? What’s with all the condescention? It’s perverted the way to take out your anger on poeple who’ve been nothing but supportive of you.
A real friend who felt anything for me would have thought “well, she’s not perfect. She says things I don’t agree with or support, but part of being a friend is accepting people inspite ofthe things we don’t like about them.” Because I assure you, the very thing you don’t like about me, others love about me. I can’t please everyone, so I am only going to be myself. At least I stand up for what I believe in. But rather than see it that way, you treat me like this? No thanks. I’m not interested.
I feel you can disagree, but you have dominated this thread by arguing since #35.
So what? Why are you acting like you are some how personally damaged by what I say? There are dozens of other active posts out there for you to join if you didn’t want to talk about what everyone else was talking about in here.
So I think and type fast – you’re going to insult me with that now? Running out of other absurd insults so soon?
I’ve been asking to accept and move on.
Again, you can ask, but I don’t owe you obedience. Why can’t you accept that just because you ask, I have to comply? It’s not like this is your blog.
Clearly something you are incapable of.
Incapable of being manipulated? Yup. You will not guilt, insult, annoy or harass me into obedience. Accept it.
I feel so sorry for you.
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 9:10 pm
You said that. It didn’t work the first time either. In fact the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. I’ll save you the madness. It won’t work the next 1 billion times you try it. My students learned that the first week of classes.
Why don’t you go spend time with your daughter.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:25 pmI hope you work on your anger issues.
Pema Chodron is wonderful.
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 9:12 pm
Obviously, you’re the one with the anger issues. You’re trying to manipulate and insult me to force me to do what you want. Passive-agressive is a form of anger.
I have no idea what that is, but since you do – I’d say you’ve proven that you’re the one with the anger problems.
Get help. Stand up to the teachers at your daughters school. Put your anger into something pro-active and productive. I assure you, this isn’t either.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:28 pmWhy don’t you go spend time with your daughter.
Comment by unbelievable — November 6, 2006
NOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
WHY DON’T YOU LEAVE MY DAUGHTER OUT OF THIS!
November 6th, 2006 at 9:30 pmYOU HAVE A PROBLEM, YOU ADDRESS ME.
DON’T EVER MENTION HER AGAIN.
Does anyone have an opinon on what “Ranting Tommy” had to say? Like should we tell him to “shut up” or give him/her free speech? This “God” thing has me confused. Are some of the non God peeps off their rockers? Just asking you decide. The BIG news- the rethugs lose the house. Wow! if there was a BIG GUY in the sky maybe the senate would change hands (folded in prayer).
November 6th, 2006 at 9:34 pmNOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
Not we…
WHY DON’T YOU LEAVE MY DAUGHTER OUT OF THIS!
YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, YOU ADDRESS ME.
You really should go spend time with her. It was actually a genuine suggestion. As when my father had cancer, I learned that one the hard way. Attacking me over this silliness is not a good use of your time.
The fact that this inflames you is proof that you are angry about something and are just using me as a target.
Seriously, true, you should go.
DON’T EVER MENTION HER AGAIN.
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 9:30 pm
Well, I figured this was the real issue here. The rest is really nonsense.
Don’t you have a healthier outlet than this? Is there someone who could come spend time with you and help ease some of the stress? If you keep it to yourself, it’s going to eat you away.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:39 pmI feel like I am in Bagdad! So the old saying-”if you want to remain friends do not discuss politics or religon” only applies to religon here. How about the best way to cook a turkey (if your not a vegan).
November 6th, 2006 at 9:41 pmJoefriday,
I think that without the obnoxious trolls around, liberals are starting to vent their frustrations on one another.
Kinda like that episode of South Park last week, where without religion, the Atheists began to segregate themselves into fractions and fight with one another.
I’m beginning to think it’s simply human nature.
Maybe some good news tomorrow would help? Well, just for a week or so : )
November 6th, 2006 at 9:43 pmyou are the biggest asshole I have seen here
Don’t ever speak to me again.
MiniBlue said,”Tell her you prefer Santo over her crap.”
I wasn’t going to post it, until YOU kept at it.
We LAUGH at you now.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:43 pmGood night, from me and my DAUGHTER!
I feel like I am in Bagdad! So the old saying-â€if you want to remain friends do not discuss politics or religon†only applies to religon here.
So it seems…
How about the best way to cook a turkey (if your not a vegan).
Comment by Joefriday — November 6, 2006 @ 9:41 pm
Actually, I heard that deep frying it is… I’ve never tasted it cooked that way, but it’s what the meat-eaters around here all claim. Something about it keeping in the juices, I think.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:46 pmand I’ll be copying and pasting every hateful word you’ve said on every new post.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:47 pmWe LAUGH at you now.
Good night, from me and my DAUGHTER!
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 9:43 pm
Good luck with that true.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:47 pmand I’ll be copying and pasting every hateful word you’ve said on every new post.
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 9:47 pm
How sad.
I wasn’t the hateful one…
November 6th, 2006 at 9:50 pmHow we doin’? Anyone a little tense before the elections.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:51 pmTell her you prefer Santo over her crap.â€
November 6th, 2006 at 9:52 pmTell her you prefer Santo over her crap.â€
Tell her you prefer Santo over her crap.â€
she’s dominated since #35
November 6th, 2006 at 9:55 pmthen brought my CHILD into the mix
November 6th, 2006 at 9:56 pmTotal ass move
How we doin’? Anyone a little tense before the elections.
Comment by ForTruth — November 6, 2006 @ 9:51 pm
I think some… yes. Others are dealing with personal issues. Easier to take it out on those who care about you, I suppose.
I really am expecting the Republicans to steal it again.
And if they do…. we’re in bigger trouble than we are now…
November 6th, 2006 at 9:56 pmtrue – go sober up. You’re gonna regret this ridiculous display when you do.
November 6th, 2006 at 9:58 pmtrue – go sober up. You’re gonna regret this ridiculous display when you do.
Comment by unbelievable — November 6, 2006 @ 9:58 pm
My Dad drank. He’s dead.
I don’t.
NICE.
Managed to insult me again, but I’m supposed to take it because you can’t let go.
You are an idiot and I asked you never to address me again.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:05 pmThis is the second time. Talk about berating….
Actually, I heard that deep frying it is… I’ve never tasted it cooked that way, but it’s what the meat-eaters around here all claim. Something about it keeping in the juices, I think.
Comment by unbelievable — November 6, 2006 @ 9:46 pm
You are right. On Thanksgiving I deep fry up about ten of them. I use peanut oil. Has a higher smoking point. I inject them with cajun spices. I think trueblue will be with us soon. I hope there is not an underlying problem that has caused this. True , I love your posts. Tomorrow-tomorrow- We can look forward to Herr Jason Hindlers leture on why we lost the Senate but, won the House-if we had only listened to HIM. Fingers crossed-maybe the Senate also!!
November 6th, 2006 at 10:16 pmYou are an idiot and I asked you never to address me again.
This is the second time. Talk about berating….
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 10:05 pm
You know what, mine too. But I don’t go around taking it out on people who have tried to support me.
I actually asked first – three times I think. But somehow my requests are not valid. But, whatever, I’m not taking any of this personally because I know you’re under a lot of stress. Hope it works out for you.
Have a nice life.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:17 pmGo Dick Cheney yourself……………
November 6th, 2006 at 10:21 pmI hope there is not an underlying problem that has caused this.
There is. Maybe she’ll tell you about it when she calms down. Stressful stuff.
Tomorrow-tomorrow- We can look forward to Herr Jason Hindlers leture on why we lost the Senate but, won the House-if we had only listened to HIM.
Comment by Joefriday — November 6, 2006 @ 10:16 pm
Joy, oh joy… I so look forward to that! :)
Poor Jason. I can’t help it, even though I knock him as much as everyone else, to feel that he is a victim who doesn’t even know he’s been taken advantage of…
It’s sort of a struggle between wanting to feel empathy, but not letting them think it’s okay to behave as they do.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:22 pmGo Dick Cheney yourself……………
Comment by trueblue — November 6, 2006 @ 10:21 pm
Wouldn’t it be great if Cheney shot someone again? This time in the rear.
So do we have a pool going yet. Bet on the number of House seats picked up and the Senate? O.k, My forecast. House net gain Dems=33, Senate net gain Dems=5.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:29 pmSpeaking of Jaosn, he’s on the upper thread talking about us losing tomorrow…. just like you predicted…
Cheney is going hunting tomorrow with his daughter! LOL
That’ll take care of that gay issue… :)
November 6th, 2006 at 10:31 pmI hope the bastards don’t steal this election, I would like to think of fairness and Democracy.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:41 pmSilly me.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:43 pmThis thread seems apropo.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:46 pm[...] Bush, in Florida, doing a campaign event for Republican gubernatorial candidate Charlie Crist, who refused to show up, (apparently sparking Karl Rove’s ire): … the President of the United States was relegated to touting a candidate in absentia while standing on stage with his brother, Gov. Jeb Bush (R), and Sen. Mel Martinez (R), neither of whom are on the ballot tomorrow. [...]
November 6th, 2006 at 10:54 pmOnthe lighter side, I was listening to NPR today and they were interviewing two of the guys who provide voice-overs for commercials. They did a few fake bits that were hilarious. In one, they did a hit piece on Humpty Dumpty:”He said he could put things back together again – but after years of wasted effort, and millions in tax dollars, he has nothing to show for his efforts,” and “London Bridge is falling down – and whose fault is it?”
November 6th, 2006 at 11:03 pmForTruth “How we doin’? Anyone a little tense before the elections.”
Thanks dude. I needed that laugh! Personally, I’m a wreck! Yikes!!
November 6th, 2006 at 11:04 pmThis is Rove, ha.
ir‧ri‧tate  /ˈɪrɪˌteɪt/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[ir-i-teyt] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -tat‧ed, -tat‧ing.
November 6th, 2006 at 11:08 pm–verb (used with object)
1. to excite to impatience or anger; annoy.
2. Physiology, Biology. to excite (a living system) to some characteristic action or function.
3. Pathology. to bring (a body part) to an abnormally excited or sensitive condition.
–verb (used without object)
4. to cause irritation or become irritated.
[Origin: 1525–35;
Yeah, weird night. I can cut the tension with fork.
November 6th, 2006 at 11:09 pmDo you think Rove is down at Diebold master control center, shouting orders with his headset on?
November 6th, 2006 at 11:12 pmI want in on the pool. I say the Dems will net 30 House seats and 3 Senate seats. I’m trying to be as optimistic as possible but at the same time real.
November 6th, 2006 at 11:14 pmI have no time for Jason, he is a total penis.
In other news, Greg Palast lays out a case that the GOP just needs to be within 4-5% of the Dems at the polls for the election to be stolen (by that I mean a small gain in both Houses but not enough to change control):
http://www.gregpalast.com/how-they-stole-the-mid-term-election
…
November 6th, 2006 at 11:15 pm#206 FT – if you saw Hacking Democracy, all you need is a 4-5% swing programmed into the memory cards and Bob’s your Uncle and Chimpy is well, still a sock puppet. But it is more complex than that. My bet is that exit polls will be badmouthed all day tomorrow…
November 6th, 2006 at 11:17 pmThe pool: 10 Dem gains in the House and 3 in the Senate. GOP still in control.
November 6th, 2006 at 11:18 pmRove has been too quiet for my liking!
My instincts (and nerves) are jumping like the time I came within a whisker of being jumped one night in NYC.
One of the things that give me hope is the sense that people are a bit more feisty these days.
November 6th, 2006 at 11:30 pmWhoah, guess I can’t associate someone with a popular body part and yet this thread is filled with a somewhat unpleasant exchange….and my main IP is blocked again by TP….
November 6th, 2006 at 11:31 pmIndubetedly! But then again most everyone is at each others neck right about now..=)
The fundies are split, the republicans are split, the neo-cons are split, the libertarians are split, as well as the log cabiners, and well the Liberals would prolly also split but because they associate so loosely with one another, I think, they probably will just nit pick on each other for a while. The really weird thing about this election is that it will be won or lost depending on who suppressed more votes than got them….
Wow…
November 7th, 2006 at 12:37 amCharlie Christ propbably could not make it because he had to pick up some meth from a male hooker and get a “massage”.
hahahahaaa
http://www.getsomejosh.com
November 7th, 2006 at 1:09 amPosted Swordsband: I consider it a responsibility as a free-thinking life form to question what doesn’t make sense and demand explanations. Don’t like it? Tough.
I could not have said it any better.
November 7th, 2006 at 9:57 amWow, is everyone ok this morning? Trueblue? Unb? Gregor?
November 7th, 2006 at 11:48 amThere is only one truth for all people which applies to all people:
I am correct, and people who don’t think what I think are not.”
The differences among people stem from how willing they are to tolerate the beliefs of people who don’t hold the same belief. It’s not so much the belief which is dangerous, it’s the contempt with which you hold the people who disagree with you, as well as how willing you are to generalize about the people in a particular group.
November 7th, 2006 at 12:48 pmThere is only one truth for all people which applies to all people:
I am correct, and people who don’t think what I think are not.â€
Comment by David Carlisle — November 7, 2006 @ 12:48 pm
I have to disagree. I don’t believe that we are capable of knowing universal truths because we are such a small part of the system, therefore we form opinions based on our experiences in life and things we have been taught by those who raised us.
It’s when someone thinks that their perspective is the universal truth, and therefore forces or tries to force it on others that people have conflicts.
I think this sums it up:
“I am treated as evil by those who feel persecuted because they are not allowed to force me to believe as they do.”
November 7th, 2006 at 3:24 pmWow, is everyone ok this morning? Trueblue? Unb? Gregor?
Comment by JaneESchneider — November 7, 2006 @ 11:48 am
Thanks for asking. I was never not okay. I just refuse to be bullied. Comes from having had an alcoholic father with cancer who behaved like a bully because he thought he was a victim. My then 17 year old brother, who is 5 years younger than me, went to high school with a black-eye more than once. And back then, I had to tolerate it. Now, I refuse.
We all have our issues. That one is and always will be mine. I don’t back down from those who try to dominate me. It might not be an ideal, but it sure beats being an legacy alcoholic…
November 7th, 2006 at 3:34 pmSorry, unb, it just bothers me when all of us who should be united start bickering. I’m normally pretty non-confrontational (except to MA). I like you guys, and I was concerned about what seemed to be misdirected anger. Sounds like you’ve got you’re head on straight. :-)
November 7th, 2006 at 4:51 pmJane,
Yes, I am still around and doing fine.
I tried to intervene in a utterly needless and pointless bitter argument, to no avail. I am a little disappointed cooler heads didn’t prevail. Oh well.
November 7th, 2006 at 5:53 pmSorry, unb, it just bothers me when all of us who should be united start bickering.
Comment by JaneESchneider — November 7, 2006 @ 4:51 pm
I don’t get it either. Sometimes I wonder if it’s our culture that makes people see things as either ‘good’ to be loved, or ‘bad’ to be attacked, with no middle ground.
I think MA likes the attention… even if negative. I rarely read any of her posts. Not worth the energy.
I’ve been on pins and needles all day… I really hope there’s some good news today. I think we could all use it.
Thanks for your concern. You’re a very thoughtful person. :)
November 7th, 2006 at 5:57 pmI tried to intervene in a utterly needless and pointless bitter argument, to no avail. I am a little disappointed cooler heads didn’t prevail. Oh well.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — November 7, 2006 @ 5:53 pm
Gregor,
There was no acrimony in my posts. Sorry you read them that way. I’m just a very dry and to the point kind of person. Probably works better for me in person, since I am the one assigning the tone and it’s not up for interpretation.
It takes a lot more than this to make me angry.
November 7th, 2006 at 6:02 pmIt takes a lot more than this to make me angry.
Comment by unbelievable — November 7, 2006 @ 6:02 pm
I realise your posts are a little dry. Mine are too and I have a hard time making them “cute and cuddly”. Not my style I guess.
As for the animosity part, long, drawn-out arguments accomplish little, and are a good way to build resentment. I, for one, refuse to let myself be dragged into these arguments with people with whom I agree for the most part, least of all over something that really isn’t worth it. Seems to me all parties had some emotional investment on the subject, hence the touchiness.
Finally, please know that although I am addressing you, my post is not personally directed at you. You just happen to be the lucky winner ;-)
November 7th, 2006 at 6:22 pm[...] – 9:57 PM ET: NBC News projects that Republican (and President Bush-dodger) Charlie Crist will be elected Florida governor, taking the place of fellow Republican Jeb Bush. [...]
November 7th, 2006 at 9:58 pm#217 by unbelievable
Yeah, I was kind of joking with the “universal truth” thing, trying to poke fun at making universal truths. As a rule I can’t make any broad statement without then really, really wanting to qualify it. I can only speak for myself in anything and I’m not prepared to assert that anything is true for anybody other than me.
But the second part of my statement feels mostly right to me, that the sticky part about beliefs is how people deal- whether indulgently, tolerantly, apathetically, or with hostility and contempt- with other people’s beliefs. I believe in a whole lot of things which I haven’t figured out empirically, I just take the word of other people on it. I live in my own universe, but I’m not going to bug or bully other people because their beliefs haven’t come about by personal empirical analysis. It’s actions
November 8th, 2006 at 4:38 amwhich are more worrying than beliefs.
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