We need someone who has a progressive world view……..war is so old fashioned…..promative, if you will. All things can be politically negotiated……..but you got to share.
Bush doesn’t plan on working with the Democrats. He thinks it is business as usual. Well, it isn’t. The king has been knocked off his thrown. If he isn’t careful, Nancy Pelosi and company will start the proceedings that America is calling for; Impeachment and removal from office, which may lead to trials for war crimes.
#2, don’t mean to bust your bubble, not ALL things are politically motivated, and cannot be negotiated. If you have ever deal with someone who wants to do something, at any cost, you are NOT going to be able to negotiate with them. It’s nice that you think you can, but the cold hard truth, there are people in this world, that no matter how much you attempt to use give and take to negotiate, will refuse to anything except their own view. They will in no way negotiate.
How do you negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate?
#2, don’t mean to bust your bubble, not ALL things are politically motivated, and cannot be negotiated. If you have ever deal with someone who wants to do something, at any cost, you are NOT going to be able to negotiate with them. It’s nice that you think you can, but the cold hard truth, there are people in this world, that no matter how much you attempt to use give and take to negotiate, will refuse to anything except their own view. They will in no way negotiate.
How do you negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate?
Comment by Douglas G. — November 10, 2006 @ 6:22 pm
We are not talking about Bush. We are talking about Bolton.
WASHINGTON – Just one year ago, Democratic Leader Harry Reid announced on the US Senate floor that it would take a “miracle†for Democrats to win enough races to take back Congress’s upper chamber from the Republicans.
“What kind of “Assistant†post will Dubya make for Revoltin’ Bolton, though?
And will our new and improved Congress stand for it?
Comment by trueblue — November 10, 2006 @ 6:03 pm”
Don’t worry about Bolton. He will go back to the same rock he crawled out from under at American Enterprise Insitute (AEI) and plot and conieve about how to overthrow governments with Richard Perle, Elliot Abrams, Douglas Feith, Bill Kristol and the rest of the neo-con crap
This fascist regime has already brought numerous convicted war criminals out of retirement to engage in yet more crimes against humanity.
Henry Kissinger has been brought back big time, as has Jean Kirkpatrick.
These Christofascists have delved deep into their storehouse of mass murdering terrorist butchers which we had probably all thought were safely dead. Hell, even that mass murdering traitor Oliver North is still walking around freely.
from the nyt link: …a de-facto ambassador position could be created…
Such a move would almost certainly inflame relations between the White House and ascendant Democrats, and might kill any further talk about bipartisan cooperation.
once again – they don’t give a shite about “relations” with the dems… or about “bipartisan cooperation”… they don’t give a shite about anything but their own power…
…How do you negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate?
Comment by Douglas G. — November 10, 2006 @ 6:22 pm
see, at first i really thought douglas was talking about bushco…
might as well have been…
Ok, Tony, it’s passed on! It is no more! It has ceased to be! It’s expired and met its Rummy! It’s a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed it to the Foreign Relations Committee agenda, it would be pushing up the daisies! Its diabolic processes are now history! It’s off the list! It’s kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain, and joined the bleeding choir invisible! This is an EX-NOMINATION!
It is quite obvious Bush intends to change the title and re-nominate Bolton, followed by another recess appointment until Bush is no longer in office.
Thus Bush eliminates yet another of the checks and balances of the Constitution. Senate confirmation of Presidential appointments is no longer required.
Day by day Bush will shed his tough guy act forged by lack of oversight as he slowily realizes how truly powerless and vulnerable he is to a Democratic Congressional majority. He has lost public support and political support. His only option is to play nice, because the first time he tries to cross the public and or the Democrats he’s going to get stomped on with a somewhat excessive amount of force.
I see the opposite happening: Bush will assume even more power using Executive Orders, signing statements, and Administrative Rulings to thwart the will of Congress in the coming days and months.
Look for another massive “terrorist” strike by next fall at the outside.
If he does those things, nothing will get through congress in his last two years, and he will be handing the Democrats and Republicans who would like to see him investigated and impeached a reason to do so that the public would support. Keep in mind that the elections were a mandate against Bush and his presidency. If he doesn’t cooperate like he is now claiming he will do, “everyone” (Dems, GOPers, Major Media, Bloggers) will be calling for his head. We can agree to disagree and just wait and see.
What exactly are you basing your comment that we should “look for another massive “terrorist” strike by next fall at the outside” on? A comment with such deadly consequences should not be made frivilously. Some noted Republicans have been making similarly scary predictions of pending attacks. What do you know that we don’t?
How in the world could anyone be so deceived as to think that King George plans to “work with the democrats”. Hell, he doesn’t even work with his own Repugs! We’ve all heard how he conducts his meetings…walks in, tells everyone what he’s going to do and leaves. What a negotiator! What incredibly charismatic profesional style!
katy, See #10.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — November 10, 2006 @ 7:41 pm
yep, spudge, i did… after i posted… am late getting here, catching up on reading some of the comments…
i don’t mind at all being in agreement with you…
seems the threads are few and relatively “light” today… TPers take the day off? … just curious… i noticed earlier today that the FAST thread was posted way late… something’s in the works (?)…
.
see you later, howard…
howard dean heading to the uk? perhaps that is why people are saying ford will be running the dnc??
Labour has enlisted one of the engineers of this week’s Democratic victory in the US midterm elections in an attempt to boost its flagging fortunes before the local elections in May.
Howard Dean, the former presidential candidate and one of the men credited with masterminding the trouncing of the Republicans, will visit the UK next month to brief party officials about his pioneering campaigning techniques.
Hey James Risser – Dean isn’t changing his citizenship. He’s going to advise and consult the Brits on how to win elections for Labour. The same way he and the 50-state strategy DNC helped the netroots engineer the Dems victory last Tuesday night.
Too bad that Carville, that oily little snake, is stupid enough to declare war on Dean. Carville will lose that war.
Happy Vets Day! Especially to our vets!
I didn’t have it off, small non-profits don’t follow the same work schedule unfortunately.
But yes, it did seem a bit light, I thought maybe everyone was coming up for air after clutching our keyboards so hard all Tuesday…
NPR was running some crap artist earlier today who was trying to say that the Bolton confirmation would be a slam dunk, I laughed so hard! Can’t these idiots see that THEY LOST? Pitiful.
Wayne, have a great gig, what instrument do you play?
We could probably put together an online band with all the TPers…
Wayne, have a great gig, what instrument do you play?
We could probably put together an online band with all the TPers…
Comment by SKdeA
Guitar, any type, electric acoustic.
I work full time, so I stick with “sub” work, fill-ins for local bands that need an extra guitar for a gig or for recording a demo. If it fits my current time off.
Can play rock, country, folk.
Do it mainly just for fun and keep my day job, hehe
Katy, I even went to hbo.com thinking his “after show” Q&A would be where he outed the gays he promised on Larry King.
Do you think Mehlman’s leaving was announced at this date in order to take some of the attention from Maher? Note that CNN censored the original video – perhaps HBO nixed it as well.
i’m not sure what to think about tonight’s deal, marie… have a hunch there may have been some intimidation involved… hard to imagine maher being intimidated though…
but he got his shot in with mehlman and maybe that was enough…
i would even bet that it was the impetus behind his leaving…
that cnn TRIED to censor the original video is ridiculous – they had to know it was out there at other sites besides youtube… (well, i am guessing it is still up at crooks and huffington)… and now it’s known that it has been edited and that just looks worse… imagine that…
burrrr… 70s today, then rain with the front and it’s windy 30s now…
early day tomorrow – going to champaign for the last ILLINI game…
senior’s day :( and dad’s day also (which i usually avoid, but the girl wants pictures and as she is a senior so must do my duty)…
yay… freezing my buns while waiting for the main event (half time)…
g’nite all…
What exactly are you basing your comment that we should “look for another massive “terrorist†strike by next fall at the outside†on? A comment with such deadly consequences should not be made frivilously. Some noted Republicans have been making similarly scary predictions of pending attacks. What do you know that we don’t?
Comment by osage — November 10, 2006 @ 8:25
how familiar are you with shamanism? My comment was just based on a feeling I have…and some logic, based on an assumption.
If members of PNAC were involved in the first 9/11 (an assumption), they will be highly motivated to put together a repeat performance after Democrats move to eliminate warrantless wiretapping, coercive interrogations, the suspension of habeus corpus, etc. (a logical conclusion). Such an attack can be blamed on the Democrats and used to push for permanent suspension of civil liberties. It would also be highly effective in sidetracking Congressional investigations/impeachment hearings.
Of course, even if PNAC didn’t have anything to do with 9/11, the motivation for a repeat attack is still great.
If Bush thinks that the American people want John Bolton on their payroll, then he seriously misunderstood Tuesday’s elections. I believe that the repudiation of his policies was quite evident from the results. The American people do not want to do things Bush’s way any more, so don’t go looking for some excuse to keep Bolton around. We didn’t want him before (Bush made us take him) and we don’t want him now. So let him go. He makes a lousy diplomat.
Oh, and I don’t mean to nit-pick, but from reading the second linked article, it appears that it is “a State Department official” who says that Bolton’s nomination is dead, not Tony Snow. But I may have interpreted that wrong. I wanted to be certain because if it clearly was Tony Snow saying both, then I had this whole Gollum/Smiegel thing I was going to work out to everyone’s amusement. But, no! It had to be some stupid anonymous state department official who contradicted Snow, not Snow himself.
47. my personal belief is that they knew about 9-11 and intentionally did nothing to stop it, knowing the power it would give them. i wouldnt put it out of the realm of possibility that they somehow egged someone to do it, but I think its more likely they can’t just pull another attack out of thier evil hats. although there was that anthrax thing, which I strongly suspect was sent by people from our own government. if you look at the targets of the anthrax theres a strong argument to be made it was someone in our goverment. apparently the tabloid guy who died from it had some uhm… history with the bush twins and certain compromising photographs of them..
I dont know that for 100 percent so If I’m wrong dont sue me..
What kind of “Assistant” post will Dubya make for Revoltin’ Bolton, though?
November 10th, 2006 at 6:03 pmAnd will our new and improved Congress stand for it?
We need someone who has a progressive world view……..war is so old fashioned…..promative, if you will. All things can be politically negotiated……..but you got to share.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:05 pmSnow: The Bolton Nomination Is Not Dead.
Tony, it’s dead.
“The Night of the Living Dead Nomination “
November 10th, 2006 at 6:10 pmI think I have said this before but…
“there are no amarican forces at the bagdad airport…we are crushing the amaricans…”
November 10th, 2006 at 6:13 pmOh, to rub Tony’s nose in the stinking carcass of Bolt-on’s decomposing political life.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:14 pmBush doesn’t plan on working with the Democrats. He thinks it is business as usual. Well, it isn’t. The king has been knocked off his thrown. If he isn’t careful, Nancy Pelosi and company will start the proceedings that America is calling for; Impeachment and removal from office, which may lead to trials for war crimes.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:18 pm#2, don’t mean to bust your bubble, not ALL things are politically motivated, and cannot be negotiated. If you have ever deal with someone who wants to do something, at any cost, you are NOT going to be able to negotiate with them. It’s nice that you think you can, but the cold hard truth, there are people in this world, that no matter how much you attempt to use give and take to negotiate, will refuse to anything except their own view. They will in no way negotiate.
How do you negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate?
November 10th, 2006 at 6:22 pmAfter getting a big dose of reality, these lame duck neocons just won’t leave the fantasy behind.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:28 pmCharges sought against Rumsfeld over prison abuse.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1557842,00.html?cnn=yes
Will anyone be held accountable?
November 10th, 2006 at 6:44 pmWe are not talking about Bush. We are talking about Bolton.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:44 pmOH: It’s a miracle!
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2006/November/theworld_November345.xml§ion=theworld
WASHINGTON – Just one year ago, Democratic Leader Harry Reid announced on the US Senate floor that it would take a “miracle†for Democrats to win enough races to take back Congress’s upper chamber from the Republicans.
Thank you, Mormon Jesus!
November 10th, 2006 at 6:53 pmDon’t worry about Bolton. He will go back to the same rock he crawled out from under at American Enterprise Insitute (AEI) and plot and conieve about how to overthrow governments with Richard Perle, Elliot Abrams, Douglas Feith, Bill Kristol and the rest of the neo-con crap
November 10th, 2006 at 6:56 pmEvery Nazi has his Nuremberg.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:58 pmThis fascist regime has already brought numerous convicted war criminals out of retirement to engage in yet more crimes against humanity.
Henry Kissinger has been brought back big time, as has Jean Kirkpatrick.
These Christofascists have delved deep into their storehouse of mass murdering terrorist butchers which we had probably all thought were safely dead. Hell, even that mass murdering traitor Oliver North is still walking around freely.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:02 pmanother one bites the dust…..bop, bop, bop……and another one down, and another one down….another one bites the dust…..
November 10th, 2006 at 7:06 pmBush’s Orwellian empire is also know as the “land of the living dead”.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:07 pmanother one bites the dust…..bop, bop, bop……and another one down, and another one down….another one bites the dust…..
Comment by Isis
I have a gig this weekend, subbing in a friend’s band for his lead guitarist,whose wife just had a baby girl Monday =)
gonna cover that and dedicate it to the F**kin Neocon Clowns loss.
War Pigs will be dedicated to Rummy’s retirement, thats is already on the playlist. hehe
November 10th, 2006 at 7:15 pmPerhaps Snow thinks that if he repeats it enough times then it’ll make it so. Poor deluded righties…
November 10th, 2006 at 7:24 pmAmerica’s Least Wanted
from the nyt link:
…a de-facto ambassador position could be created…
Such a move would almost certainly inflame relations between the White House and ascendant Democrats, and might kill any further talk about bipartisan cooperation.
once again – they don’t give a shite about “relations” with the dems… or about “bipartisan cooperation”… they don’t give a shite about anything but their own power…
…How do you negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate?
Comment by Douglas G. — November 10, 2006 @ 6:22 pm
see, at first i really thought douglas was talking about bushco…
might as well have been…
just sayin’
November 10th, 2006 at 7:28 pmGeorge may have “The Joker” in his pocket.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:35 pmDon’t forget the “decider” is still in charge??
Somebody better do a Monty Python take …
Ok, Tony, it’s passed on! It is no more! It has ceased to be! It’s expired and met its Rummy! It’s a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed it to the Foreign Relations Committee agenda, it would be pushing up the daisies! Its diabolic processes are now history! It’s off the list! It’s kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain, and joined the bleeding choir invisible! This is an EX-NOMINATION!
November 10th, 2006 at 7:38 pmkaty,
See #10.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:41 pmIt is quite obvious Bush intends to change the title and re-nominate Bolton, followed by another recess appointment until Bush is no longer in office.
Thus Bush eliminates yet another of the checks and balances of the Constitution. Senate confirmation of Presidential appointments is no longer required.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:52 pmDay by day Bush will shed his tough guy act forged by lack of oversight as he slowily realizes how truly powerless and vulnerable he is to a Democratic Congressional majority. He has lost public support and political support. His only option is to play nice, because the first time he tries to cross the public and or the Democrats he’s going to get stomped on with a somewhat excessive amount of force.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:56 pmosage,
I see the opposite happening: Bush will assume even more power using Executive Orders, signing statements, and Administrative Rulings to thwart the will of Congress in the coming days and months.
Look for another massive “terrorist” strike by next fall at the outside.
November 10th, 2006 at 8:01 pmBriseadh na Faire
If he does those things, nothing will get through congress in his last two years, and he will be handing the Democrats and Republicans who would like to see him investigated and impeached a reason to do so that the public would support. Keep in mind that the elections were a mandate against Bush and his presidency. If he doesn’t cooperate like he is now claiming he will do, “everyone” (Dems, GOPers, Major Media, Bloggers) will be calling for his head. We can agree to disagree and just wait and see.
November 10th, 2006 at 8:10 pmHow do you negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate?
Comment by Douglas G. — November 10, 2006 @ 6:22 pm
I do not know, try asking somebody who has dealt with Chimpy McFlightsuit.
November 10th, 2006 at 8:15 pmLook for another massive “terrorist†strike by next fall at the outside.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Please keep saying it…..
But, please be wrong.
November 10th, 2006 at 8:17 pmDeny, Inveigle, Obsfuscate.
They got the deny part DOWN, bayBEE!!!
(the other two have more than two syllables, so give them time)
November 10th, 2006 at 8:21 pmBriseadh na Faire
What exactly are you basing your comment that we should “look for another massive “terrorist” strike by next fall at the outside” on? A comment with such deadly consequences should not be made frivilously. Some noted Republicans have been making similarly scary predictions of pending attacks. What do you know that we don’t?
November 10th, 2006 at 8:25 pmHow in the world could anyone be so deceived as to think that King George plans to “work with the democrats”. Hell, he doesn’t even work with his own Repugs! We’ve all heard how he conducts his meetings…walks in, tells everyone what he’s going to do and leaves. What a negotiator! What incredibly charismatic profesional style!
November 10th, 2006 at 8:26 pmkaty, See #10.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — November 10, 2006 @ 7:41 pm
yep, spudge, i did… after i posted… am late getting here, catching up on reading some of the comments…
i don’t mind at all being in agreement with you…
seems the threads are few and relatively “light” today… TPers take the day off? … just curious… i noticed earlier today that the FAST thread was posted way late… something’s in the works (?)…
November 10th, 2006 at 8:28 pm.
in a state of
November 10th, 2006 at 8:33 pmkaty,
I think TP is on light duty for Veteran’s Day. It’s weird, because probably most of the people not working today, like me, are not veterans.
November 10th, 2006 at 9:14 pmsee you later, howard…
howard dean heading to the uk? perhaps that is why people are saying ford will be running the dnc??
November 10th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
I think TP is on light duty for Veteran’s Day…
Comment by Zooey — November 10, 2006 @ 9:14 pm
oh yea… once again, i’m out of the holiday loop, forgetful… oops…
November 10th, 2006 at 9:33 pmBolton is done. As long as the Dems have Congress, Bush will have no choice but to deal with it.
November 10th, 2006 at 9:53 pmForgive Tony. Old habits die hard.
November 10th, 2006 at 10:58 pmHey James Risser – Dean isn’t changing his citizenship. He’s going to advise and consult the Brits on how to win elections for Labour. The same way he and the 50-state strategy DNC helped the netroots engineer the Dems victory last Tuesday night.
Too bad that Carville, that oily little snake, is stupid enough to declare war on Dean. Carville will lose that war.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:07 pmHappy Vets Day! Especially to our vets!
November 10th, 2006 at 11:17 pmI didn’t have it off, small non-profits don’t follow the same work schedule unfortunately.
But yes, it did seem a bit light, I thought maybe everyone was coming up for air after clutching our keyboards so hard all Tuesday…
NPR was running some crap artist earlier today who was trying to say that the Bolton confirmation would be a slam dunk, I laughed so hard! Can’t these idiots see that THEY LOST? Pitiful.
Wayne, have a great gig, what instrument do you play?
We could probably put together an online band with all the TPers…
Wayne, have a great gig, what instrument do you play?
We could probably put together an online band with all the TPers…
Comment by SKdeA
Guitar, any type, electric acoustic.
I work full time, so I stick with “sub” work, fill-ins for local bands that need an extra guitar for a gig or for recording a demo. If it fits my current time off.
Can play rock, country, folk.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:43 pmDo it mainly just for fun and keep my day job, hehe
huh. … either bill maher chickened out, or his promise to out some gays tonight was a just a tease…
November 11th, 2006 at 12:02 ami sure didn’t hear anything new…
Goes to show you Tony Snow never lets the truth or facts get in the way. Who does he think he is fooling?
November 11th, 2006 at 12:13 amKaty, I even went to hbo.com thinking his “after show” Q&A would be where he outed the gays he promised on Larry King.
November 11th, 2006 at 12:19 amDo you think Mehlman’s leaving was announced at this date in order to take some of the attention from Maher? Note that CNN censored the original video – perhaps HBO nixed it as well.
i’m not sure what to think about tonight’s deal, marie… have a hunch there may have been some intimidation involved… hard to imagine maher being intimidated though…
but he got his shot in with mehlman and maybe that was enough…
i would even bet that it was the impetus behind his leaving…
that cnn TRIED to censor the original video is ridiculous – they had to know it was out there at other sites besides youtube… (well, i am guessing it is still up at crooks and huffington)… and now it’s known that it has been edited and that just looks worse… imagine that…
burrrr… 70s today, then rain with the front and it’s windy 30s now…
November 11th, 2006 at 12:43 amearly day tomorrow – going to champaign for the last ILLINI game…
senior’s day :( and dad’s day also (which i usually avoid, but the girl wants pictures and as she is a senior so must do my duty)…
yay… freezing my buns while waiting for the main event (half time)…
g’nite all…
31 – osage;
how familiar are you with shamanism? My comment was just based on a feeling I have…and some logic, based on an assumption.
If members of PNAC were involved in the first 9/11 (an assumption), they will be highly motivated to put together a repeat performance after Democrats move to eliminate warrantless wiretapping, coercive interrogations, the suspension of habeus corpus, etc. (a logical conclusion). Such an attack can be blamed on the Democrats and used to push for permanent suspension of civil liberties. It would also be highly effective in sidetracking Congressional investigations/impeachment hearings.
Of course, even if PNAC didn’t have anything to do with 9/11, the motivation for a repeat attack is still great.
November 11th, 2006 at 2:37 amIf Bush thinks that the American people want John Bolton on their payroll, then he seriously misunderstood Tuesday’s elections. I believe that the repudiation of his policies was quite evident from the results. The American people do not want to do things Bush’s way any more, so don’t go looking for some excuse to keep Bolton around. We didn’t want him before (Bush made us take him) and we don’t want him now. So let him go. He makes a lousy diplomat.
Oh, and I don’t mean to nit-pick, but from reading the second linked article, it appears that it is “a State Department official” who says that Bolton’s nomination is dead, not Tony Snow. But I may have interpreted that wrong. I wanted to be certain because if it clearly was Tony Snow saying both, then I had this whole Gollum/Smiegel thing I was going to work out to everyone’s amusement. But, no! It had to be some stupid anonymous state department official who contradicted Snow, not Snow himself.
November 11th, 2006 at 8:57 am47. my personal belief is that they knew about 9-11 and intentionally did nothing to stop it, knowing the power it would give them. i wouldnt put it out of the realm of possibility that they somehow egged someone to do it, but I think its more likely they can’t just pull another attack out of thier evil hats. although there was that anthrax thing, which I strongly suspect was sent by people from our own government. if you look at the targets of the anthrax theres a strong argument to be made it was someone in our goverment. apparently the tabloid guy who died from it had some uhm… history with the bush twins and certain compromising photographs of them..
November 11th, 2006 at 9:03 amI dont know that for 100 percent so If I’m wrong dont sue me..
im not quoting this as scripture but it IS interesting:
http://www.newsgarden.org/columns/anthrax/anthraxtargets.shtml
November 11th, 2006 at 9:15 am50 – thanks for the link.
November 11th, 2006 at 10:21 amNote:
…get matching orange prison jumpers for Bushiva, L’il Dick, Bolton, Snowjob et.al…
P.S.
…also matching gallows…
November 11th, 2006 at 8:41 pmTP site messed up again……
November 11th, 2006 at 8:52 pm#48 I see where I went wrong. My mistake. Sorry.
November 12th, 2006 at 8:52 am