ThinkFast: November 10, 2006
ThinkFast: November 10, 2006
Unnamed White House officials say that President Bush is aware of Defense Secretary nominee Robert Gates’ “critique of current policy and understood that Mr. Gates planned to clear the ‘E Ring’ of the Pentagon, where many of Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld’s senior political appointees have plotted Iraq strategy.”
Meanwhile, “Rumsfeld’s abrupt resignation from the Pentagon the day after Republicans lost both chambers of Congress has infuriated some GOP officials on and off Capitol Hill,” the Hill reports.
Twenty-three U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq in the first ten days of November.
During his press conference yesterday, President Bush “made it clear that, for now, his idea of how to ‘put the elections behind us’ is to use the Republicans’ last two months in control of Congress to try to push through one of [his administration's] worst ideas…: a bill that would legalize his illegal wiretapping program and gut the law that limits a president’s ability to abuse his power in this way.”
The election “only spells more trouble for politicians under federal investigation” who were voted out of office — including Sen. Condrad Burns (R-MT) and Reps. Curt Weldon (R-PA) and Katherine Harris (R-FL) — since it prompts prosecutors “to pursue more aggressively a case since the potential defendant no longer has the institution of Congress defending him or her.”
“Massachusetts’ lawmakers on Thursday took a giant step toward killing a proposal to ban gay marriage in the only U.S. state where it is legal,” delaying a decision “on whether to back a constitutional amendment that would have given voters a chance to ban gay marriage.”
Speaking to Democratic House leaders Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Steny Hoyer (D-MD), President Bush said yesterday that “all three of us recognize that when you win, you have a responsibility to do the best you can for the country.” Except, as the New York Times notes, there was a fourth person in the room: Vice President Dick Cheney.
In a “closely watched race” for the Ohio School Board, pro-science candidate Tom Sawyer “handily defeated incumbent Deborah Owens-Fink,” who had “consistently supported antievolution measures” and described the idea that there is a scientific consensus on evolution as “laughable.”
And finally: Someone call Will Smith. Former British Ministry of Defense chief Nick Pope has warned that Earth “could be attacked by extraterrestrials at any time.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Robert Gates is IRAN CONTRA>>>BEWARE AND REJECT
November 10th, 2006 at 11:29 amGreat News!!!
Irans terrorist leaders are also sending there praise for the Democrat win. They are calling it a win for all of extreme Islam and the terrorist leaders of Iran. Check it out:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyid=2006-11-10T140135Z_01_L10266591_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-ELECTIONS-IRAN.xml&src=rss&rpc=22
November 10th, 2006 at 11:30 amGrover’s soon gonna feel another bump in the road when Cheney’s thrown under the bus.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:37 amRoger_Roger
If you were an Islamic extremist and you saw the Republicans as being the best chance for America’s destruction, and you knew the average American viewed you along the same lines as you viewed Israel: Which side would you cheer on? It is called bloody blatant reverse psychology.
Back to the topic at hand:
As Drudge proved during the elections: Conservatives are incapable of seeing Nancy Pelosi. It is an ability which I am sure the military is trying to find a way to exploit.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:41 amHey rogerX2: give it a rest. Your hero King George tried that same tack over the last couple of months — the American people ain’t buying your crap any longer, asshat. This kind of saber-rattling has been going on in Iran since the Islamic Revolution in the late 70’s — it didn’t scare us then, and it won’t scare us now, even though you and the rest of your terrorist-loving brethren try to bring it up every five minutes.
Oh, and by the way — learn how to spell before you post on blogs inhabited by those who are obviously far more intelligent than you (it’s “their praise”, not “there praise”, genius…).
November 10th, 2006 at 11:41 amKatherine Harris’s involvement in the stolen election of 2000 in Florida is a good starting point to begin to unravel the EVM’s threat to our democracy – by stopping the recount and make a travesty of the system at that time (hanging chads, etc.), it paved the way for VoteHere (a huge voting industry lobbyist upon whose board none other than Rumsfeld’s replacement sits! ahem!) to ram through HAVA (with now indicted Bob Ney and cohorts) and usher in the machinery which corrupted our election in 04 (thanks to Blackwell in Ohio as well!)….So the jumping off point would be a thorough investigation of both Harris and Jebbie….and from that starting point to the now-obvious planned vulnerabilities in our election machinery, I’m certain that many heads will roll……not the least of whom may be Bush’s latest appointee…..Gates himself. Just check out the money trail of VoteHere and see for yourself……they raised more money as lobbyists for the HAVA Act than Diebold, ES & S, and Sequoia combined!! Go to http://www.bradblog.com for the details….
November 10th, 2006 at 11:42 amRoger x2
AS ususal you got it wrong you moron. When are you GOP bastards are going to stop spinning. Get over it, you are out.
Your comments are so off the mark; and here is why
Mr. Ahmadinejad is correct. American people are dissatisfied and fed up with the policies of the Bush administration and that is why we showed up in droves on Tuesday to vote the scum bags out of office.
Now go pour yourself a stiff drink and wollow in your own self-pitty.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:43 am#5
It ain’t my crap. Read the report. The terrorist leader of Iran himself said it is a victory for him and all of the terrorist leaders of Iran. It is pretty obvious though. Would you want someone in charge that will attack you if you even kinda threaten us or would you want a bunch of tree hugging hippi’s in charge that simply want to hold hands and help you build your nukes? That choice is simple.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:43 amRobert Gates was also investigated and nearly indicted for his role in intelligence tampering during Irangate….and Pappy Bush’s presidency…..people need to do the research and send a clear message of rejection of this “shady” individual. Is there not someone among this present GOP body who does not have serious skeletons in their closet?? Is there not one honest, qualified individual in the whole mess of a party left?? I think we know the answer to that question, don’t we?
November 10th, 2006 at 11:44 amRobert Gates was also investigated and nearly indicted for his role in intelligence tampering during Irangate….and Pappy Bush’s presidency…..people need to do the research and send a clear message of rejection of this “shady” individual. Is there not someone among this present GOP body who does not have serious skeletons in their closet?? Is there not one honest, qualified individual in the whole mess of a party left?? I think we know the answer to that question, don’t we?
November 10th, 2006 at 11:44 amCAIRO, Egypt – Al-Qaida in Iraq claimed in a new audio tape Friday to be winning the war faster than expected in Iraq, saying it had mobilized 12,000 fighters. The leader meanwhiled vowed his fighters will never rest until they have blown up the White House.
The group also said it welcomed the Republican electoral defeat that led to the departure of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.
The speaker praised the outcome of Tuesday’s elections in which Democrats swept to power in the House and the Senate, in large part due to U.S. voter dissatisfaction over the handling of the war in Iraq.
“The American people have put their feet on the right path by … realizing their president’s betrayal in supporting Israel,” the terror leader said. “So they voted for something reasonable in the last elections.”
Associated Press
November 10th, 2006 at 11:45 amNovember 10, 2006
the defeat of the bush agenda, which is based on religious extremism and the philosophy of pre-emptive invasion and occupation of any country on the planet is a victory for the civilized world. the defeat of the bush agenda is a victory for all countries that do not want to suffer the fate or iraq at the hands of this madman.
i am sorry, #2, but you say “they are calling it a win for all of extreme Islam and the terrorist leaders of Iran. Check it out:” well, i did ‘check it out’ and i could not see any mention of a ‘win for all of extreme islam and the terrorist leaders of iran’.
i might suggest you continue listening to fox news and collecting bush talking points and stop putting words in the mouths of people you do not understand, and whom you misquote to fit your own radical agenda.
the defeat of the bush empire is the best thing that can happen to this planet; the elections on tuesday are a small first step in the correct direction to those goals, and the world recognizes it as such. and, i suggest that any american with a brain agrees with the grand ayatollah and not with you and your fox comrades.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:48 amUnnamed White House officials say that President Bush is aware of Defense Secretary nominee Robert Gates
From Chomsky:
November 10th, 2006 at 11:49 amThe death toll in Nicaragua from the U.S. terrorist war based in Honduras per capita, relative to population, would be the same as about 2.5 million dead in the United States, which turns out to be higher than the total number of American deaths in all wars in the U.S. History, including the Civil War. So, from the Nicaraguan point of view, this was not a small event. It did lead to establishing democracy. With a gun at their heads after Bush warned them this was going to go on unless they vote for our candidate – this is Bush I – Nicaraguans voted for the U.S. candidate and were rewarded for that by, uh – there was tremendous applause in the United States and “The New York Times” had big headlines saying ‘Americans united in joy…’, kind of like North Koreans, ‘Americans united in joy at the victory for U.S. fair play’. You know, that’s pretty much what happened. Since then — since the U.S. took it over again, Nicaragua’s declined to the second poorest country in the hemisphere after Haiti. Again, by accident, Haiti happens to be the main target of U.S. military intervention in the 20th century. Nicaragua is second. But that’s just another coincidence. About 60% of the Nicaraguan children under two are now suffering from severe anemia from malnutrition, meaning probable permanent brain damage. Half of the active labor force is out of the country because there’s no way to survive there. But it is regularly described in the “Wall Street Journal”, too, as an economic miracle where you can buy anything that you want. Which is true. There are 24-hour malls open for people that can afford it. You can buy computers and plenty of great things — great place for retired Americans to go. They can live a very cheaply in wonderful mansions and so on. But for children under two, their prospects are permanent brain damage. And that’s what we call a victory for democracy. That tells you something about the Bushs’ messianic vision to bring democracy to Iraq using the same experienced official. And, we don’t have to go on about the kind of democracy that he brought to Honduras or that the present incumbents and their Reaganite face brought to the rest of Central America, but that we’re supposed to forget about.
Roger x2
Did all that cheap booze you drank to forget Balck Tuesday make you blind too?
I read the report. Nowhere it suggests that the Iranian leader is a terrorist or he is speaking for terrorists.
Robert Gates, and Jim Baker, whome Shrub has chosen to get him out of Iraq, have advocated a regional dialogue, especially with the Iraninas.
It seems Mr. Khamenei’s remarks address that issue that as they have said all along, Iranians are willing to come to the table to talk, and now with the new Congress they can.
Have another stiff drink and wollow in self-pitty.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:51 amIsn’t it amazing how life imitates nature? You turn on the light and the cockroaches all run!
November 10th, 2006 at 11:51 am“The American people have put their feet on the right path by … realizing their president’s betrayal in supporting Israel,†the terror leader said. “So they voted for something reasonable in the last elections.â€
Comment by Exley
Ex, you are still angry, I would guess.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:54 amUnnamed White House officials say that President Bush is aware of Defense Secretary nominee Robert Gates’ “critique of current policy and understood that Mr. Gates planned to clear the ‘E Ring’ of the Pentagon, where many of Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld’s senior political appointees have plotted Iraq strategy.â€
I’m glad Rummy is gone, because he was a terrible Sec Def, but I wonder if the day may come when we are longing for him. The enemy you know…
November 10th, 2006 at 11:55 amGates was up to his neck in Iran/Contra. Just be aware of what he’s capable of.
Still, it’s interesting that Bush The Smarter is trying to save Bush The Dumber’s a**.
It’s funny to watch ReichWingNuts Cut and Run. It’s sad that so many innocent people had to die for the WingNuts to come to the realization that something is very wrong in Iraq.
I realize Nancy has taken impeachment off the table. Let’s make sure it gets back ON the table right now! Afterall, would you let criminals roam freely through your city if you had the means of arresting and jailing them?
ITMFA!!!
November 10th, 2006 at 11:55 amTwenty-three U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq in the first ten days of November.
Resuce the Troops, Bring Them Home Now.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:56 am#2 is clearly a paid troll….don’t give him the time of day or waste any of our new air of enthusiastic energy given by the historic taking back of Congress and our democracy be depleted by the clear losers in this election! They need to “get over it”….they’re OUT and many will be job hunting next week. I suspect the paid GOP trolls will definitely be on the unemployment lines soon and our blogs will be rid of these misanthropes.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:58 amRoger and Exley,
Two more GOPpers using jihadist propaganda to justify their political views. Are you guys that in awe of America’s enemies? Do Islamic fundamentalists make you feel better about your pathetic existence?
Man, you guys are almost as insecure as our southern border.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:59 amOk…first you reich wing wackos let the terrorist control the war and our foreign policy, now you want them to control our elections. The one thing that is obvious to anyone with a brain is that they are smarter than you are. The only possible effect they could have on an election by saying anything is to make more people vote for the side they claim to want to lose. They know that; you are idiots and can’t see that. Fortunately for us all (you included) the American people didn’t buy it.
Your stupidity is profound.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:59 amDuring his press conference yesterday, President Bush “made it clear that, for now, his idea of how to ‘put the elections behind us†is to use the Republicans’ last two months in control of Congress to try to push through one of [his administration’s] worst ideas…: a bill that would legalize his illegal wiretapping program and gut the law that limits a president’s ability to abuse his power in this way.â€
Lieberman will vote for it.
If Bush is able to push through any legislation, even the pardon of that stupid Thanksgiving turkey, I’ll be disappointed.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:59 amRoger x 2: Of course, it is a fact that Bush created a terrorist breeding ground in Iraq. Oh, and where’s bin Laden, the guy who killed 3,000 Americans while Bush read “My Pet Goat” to school children? Bush’s record on terrorism is pathetic, and the American people clearly agree.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:01 pm#14 Pissed Off
It seems Mr. Khamenei’s remarks address that issue that as they have said all along, Iranians are willing to come to the table to talk, and now with the new Congress they can.
But they where also willing to talk for the year plus when they ‘negotiated’ with the Europeans, and despite all sorts of Goodybags offered by Europe, all the Iranians did was delay. Odds are that if the Dems use the majorities to force Bush into talk the Iranians will just use it as anouther delaying tactic to further their nuclear (the s is silent) development. However, with the US probably unwilling to allow a serious military action capable of reducing the Iranians nuclear abilities, there is also no real point to the current attempts at Bravado by Bush and Co. I say we just leave the ball in Europe’s court so when they inevitably drop it we can at least pass the blame to them.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:01 pm#16, Juan…I am not angry at all. I am disappointed, but not angry. I understand this is how politics works in this country. You win some, you lose some. We had a nice little streak going — three electoral victories in a row (2000, 2002, 2004), but change is the only constant. Plus, the president’s party almost always suffers losses in the midterm elections. Since World War II, the average loss in the House of Representatives is approximately 27 seats. So, this election fits within the historic norm. Election 2006 is over. The only thing to do now is get ready for 2008 and try to win then.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:02 pm#14
It is nice of you to take this extremist praise. I salute you for thinking if this mad man as a friend. I hope your party will be able to go to Iran and get a warm welcome. I am sure the Terrorist leader of Iran will be more then all ears to hear how your party wants to back off on the war of terror. It will buy them enough time to get there nuke and destroy Isreal. It should also be enough time for them to arm AQ for an attack on the White House.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:03 pmSpeaking to Democratic House leaders Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Steny Hoyer (D-MD), President Bush said yesterday that “all three of us recognize that when you win, you have a responsibility to do the best you can for the country.†Except, as the New York Times notes, there was a fourth person in the room: Vice President Dick Cheney.
Ah, the proverbial Freudian Slip.
Although it could be an honest mistake. I’ve heard that if “Dick” doesn’t get warm puppy blood each morning, he starts to lose his molecular structure. Georgie just didn’t see him there…
November 10th, 2006 at 12:04 pm#22 Chris H
The only possible effect they could have on an election by saying anything is to make more people vote for the side they claim to want to lose. They know that; you are idiots and can’t see that. Fortunately for us all (you included) the American people didn’t buy it.
Your stupidity is profound.
Tell that to the spanish.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:04 pmFormer British Ministry of Defense chief Nick Pope has warned that Earth “could be attacked by extraterrestrials at any time.â€
I needed a new tinfoil hat anyway.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:05 pm#29 squegeeboo
We are not the spanish…
November 10th, 2006 at 12:07 pmGreat News!!!
Irans terrorist leaders are also sending there praise for the Democrat win. They are calling it a win for all of extreme Islam and the terrorist leaders of Iran. Check it out:
Why would you believe them?
Bush is still the Commander in Chief. Remember RrOoGgEeRr?
The ‘Decider’?
November 10th, 2006 at 12:09 pmquote of the day:
“The US government of Republicans and neo-conservatives, which is a reckless government of idiots, will be reined in with the Democrats taking over the House,” Oraib Rintawi, President of the Al Quds Centre for Political Studies in Amman, told SPIEGEL ONLINE before it was clear that the Senate had also tipped toward the Democrats. ”The ability of the US to fuel crisis and start wars in the region will drop drastically.” The Democratic take-over of Congress “is in the interest of all parties in the region.”
November 10th, 2006 at 12:11 pmTell that to the spanish.
Comment by squegeeboo
Spaniards think.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:12 pmRoger Roger
Would you rather the terrorists influenced the results of our election EITHER way? Now THAT would be a win for the terrorists. Who gives a rats ass about what they say of our elections? WE decide what the direction of the country should be NOT the terrorists.
Why do you hate democracy???
November 10th, 2006 at 12:14 pmj,
Thanks for clearing that up.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:15 pm#8
Would you want someone in charge that will attack you if you even kinda threaten us or would you want a bunch of tree hugging hippi’s in charge that simply want to hold hands and help you build your nukes? That choice is simple.
Or try this one:
If you knew the people in the White House were homicidal maniacs who wouldn’t think twice about launching a war against a country that did absolutely nothing to warrant it, and then made up a lot of excuses and offered a lot of lies to try to justify it, would you rather see a bunch of rubber-stamp Republicans in Congress letting the president do whatever he wanted no matter how wrong or dishonest they knew it was? Or would you rather see some responsible adults in there who would assume the Legislative branch’s traditional Constitutional role, and highly necessary job at this time in our history, of congressional oversight?
Bonus question:
If you were Iran and you knew that the U.S. had a policy of pre-emptive war, and had already proven itself ready to act on it, would you:
November 10th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
Roger, there’s a real good answer for you.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:16 pmHow about we give you a truck, a nuke and drop you off at the Iranian border. You can drive your truck and nuke to Tehran and set it off.
Everybody’s then happy.
The rest of the world is cheering that the people of america have finally shed the light on our country…..yep….and all of the cockroaches are running for the hills!
November 10th, 2006 at 12:17 pmIt will buy them enough time to get there nuke and destroy Isreal. It should also be enough time for them to arm AQ for an attack on the White House.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Dont worry. Neo would defeat them.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:18 pmKeep on being afraid. In fact, wasnt that neighbor of yours looking really suspicious last night?
ps. Everybody else, shhh, I’m just trying to mollify Roger*2. He couldn’t figure out how to shift the gears in the truck let alone set off a real nuke…
November 10th, 2006 at 12:18 pmHe prolly has been reading thoht…=)
November 10th, 2006 at 12:18 pm#8 – what the hell is a “tree huggin’ hippie”….boy are you dating yourself?? hahahah! I can determine both your age as well as your IQ from that remark. Go back to the woods, please.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:19 pmRoger_Roger
If I was a terrorist who would I want in charge?
The Conservatives. Wanna know why? Look throughout history. The Conservatives tend to win a lot of battles, but the liberals have this disturbing tendency to win the wars.
The more liberal Spaniards beat the Aztecs (Human sacrifice was the ultimate religious conservatism) the more liberal English beat the Spanish, the more Liberal revolutionaries in America beat the English, the liberal north beat the conservative South. Liberalism has not always been the nicer side, look at the Boer War when the more liberal English stuck the Afrikaaners in concentration camps, but it has almost always been the side that has prevailed.
Even in the sixties, those same hippies you deride managed to kick your racist, homophobic, anti-everything conservative forebears figurative asses on every issue that mattered. The only reason why the sixties protest movements faded out was because those movements actually won. They got what they wanted, equality, peace and a greater freedom of expression.
Aside from the history, thanks to the war in Iraq, and the possible war in Iran, my supporter base would include far greater numbers of people, while America’s supporter base would continue to shrink thanks to the economic realities conservatives, being asshats, tend to ignore. Thanks to Conservative America’s wish to never, ever get off of oil, I would always have the funds to rebuild should I lose (Thereby meaning I never really lose, most of the time when a nation surrenders and loses a war it is because it no longer has the capacity to rebuild without the opposing side’s help) and thanks to conservative America’s fear of me, I now have a great deal of clout in a world where I have previously had next to none.
The best part of having conservatives in power over my enemies? Conservatives are incapable of actually following through on anything – be it building a big fence or capturing me. If I was Osama I would be worried about having a Democrat controlled Congress and Senate, because that means America would be in the hands of people who want me dead far more desperately then the Republicans ever did (Remember Bush closing down a certain branch of the CIA dedicated to a certain Bin Laden?)
So what would I do about it? I would release videos of me, my allies, and anybody I knew saying “Yay the Democrats.” I would capitalise on the BS propaganda the Republicans spread, and make a big deal of this meaning victory, all in the hopes of hurting a potential threat within America’s political system: America gaining a goverment which actually can govern.
I would fully realise that Americans hate me. I would recognise it and capitalise on it in every way I can, because I would know that so long as Americans are asshats and don’t realise that I am not a total dumbass, I would be able to shape their opinions and through them, control the war.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:20 pmIn fact, wasnt that neighbor of yours looking really suspicious last night?
Comment by Juan C
Juan, why do you hate the neighbors?
November 10th, 2006 at 12:20 pmyou’re “over and out….roger_roger”……troll!
November 10th, 2006 at 12:21 pmchimpeach ~ Rock Solid Award for your reply to RogerRabbit.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:21 pmHe prolly has been reading thoht…=)
Comment by Dog_named_Boo
Well, if he’s been reading my thoughts, I hope he has the decency to blush…
November 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pmRoger Roger:
November 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pmWhen the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts looking like a nail.
There’s no help or Rogerx2. He’s a chronic bedwetter.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:24 pmRrOoGgEeRr. If they were no terrorists you would be scared that the illegals would take over, if there were no Illegals you would be scared that the canadians would take over, and if their were no canadians would fear that the Indians would take over, and if there were no Indians you would be scared that the sky would fall, and if the sky didn’t fall you would be scared that an earthquake might swallow you up.
Roger_Roger actually embraces fear factor management, though he prolly doesn’t even realize it because of the decades of conditioning.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:26 pmJuan, why do you hate the neighbors?
Comment by Zooey
Hey, Zoo. Youre right. Now Im afraid for Roger Roger´s neighbor integrity. :P
November 10th, 2006 at 12:27 pmThe more liberal Spaniards beat the Aztecs (Human sacrifice was the ultimate religious conservatism)
mmmmm…Bruce…
November 10th, 2006 at 12:28 pmTell that to the spanish.
Comment by squegeeboo
Why?
The Spanish election was about their leaders lying to them, and telling them it was Basque seperatists that attacked them.
Nice try though, Squeegy.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:28 pmLOL. Actually it makes sense, UFOS, in the fear factor game it’s the next logical step! Could you imagine the amount of money that could be spent building, then blowing up unmanned UFOs in space?
November 10th, 2006 at 12:29 pmRe: During his press conference yesterday, President Bush “made it clear that, for now, his idea of how to ‘put the elections behind us†is to use the Republicans’ last two months in control of Congress to try to push through one of [his administration’s] worst ideas…: a bill that would legalize his illegal wiretapping program and gut the law that limits a president’s ability to abuse his power in this way.â€
Ahhhh…here we go again.
Gen. Michael Hayden:
And from Atty. Gen. Gonzales:
So the program targets specific individuals or groups. Funny, then, that the government tried to get the phone records of tens of millions of Americans (comprising several trillion calls) from 3 phone companies.
Also funny that Qwest refused, and asked for a warrant. The government simply turned and walked away. So much for their interest in tracking terrorists and keeping us safe.
More from Gen. Hayden:
But the WH gets court approval, obviously via FISA, for domestic wiretapping:
So where’s the concern with speed in this case?
From Atty. Gen. Gonzales:
Sensitive program? Leaking information? BS. From CNN.com in Oct. 2001:
And finally, again evidence that Bush broke the law:
November 10th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
The proposed PATRIOT (Provide Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism)
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!! These guys know how to keep idiots on their side. Laughing. So. Hard.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:33 pmHe prolly has been reading thoht…=)
Comment by Dog_named_Boo
Well, if he’s been reading my thoughts, I hope he has the decency to blush…
Comment by Zooey
Oy!
November 10th, 2006 at 12:35 pmThe Spanish election was about their leaders lying to them, and telling them it was Basque seperatists that attacked them.
Nice try though, Squeegy.
Comment by John Bolton
And 80% of Spain was against spanish troops in Iraq. Remember, Europe has a strong left.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:38 pmThey’re very happy in Europe. In England, a vast majority, over 70% see this as a positive step. People in Blair’s administration are worried about more Downing Street Memo stuff coming out. In the far east, people are very happy Dems have taken congress. Aids activists in Africa are feeling good about it. Latin America is relieved. And, yes, I suppose people in Iran and other places like that are happy. Almost everyone throughout the world is glad that there will be checks and balances imposed on the Bush administration.
If double-Roger has a point, I don’t get it yet.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:41 pmTIMES OF LONDON:
Troops fear Rumsfeld’s exit will end their Iraq mission
From Martin Fletcher in Baghdad
“Half of America and the upper echelons of the US military may be cheering Donald Rumsfeld’s resignation from the post of Defence Secretary, but there was no rejoicing yesterday among those most directly affected by his decisions: the frontline soldiers in Iraq.
Troops expressed little pleasure at the departure of the man responsible for their protracted deployment to a hostile country where 2,839 of their comrades have died.
Indeed, some members of the 101st Airborne Division and other troops approached by The Times as they prepared to fly home from Baghdad airport yesterday expressed concern that Robert Gates, Mr Rumsfeld’s successor, and the Democrat-controlled Congress, might seek to wind down their mission before it was finished.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2446536,00.html#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=World
November 10th, 2006 at 12:41 pmWelp I gotta go walk the Dog, take a Hendler and wipe the Roger_Roger off my MA, maybe plan for the impending Alien attack, and change my affiliation from Sovereign to Neo-Conservative!!
Later!!
November 10th, 2006 at 12:41 pmI really derailed this thread, right? Sorry.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:42 pmExley, you evidently think a reporter for the London Times has a better feel for how the troops think than all of our major military papers. They have all called for the ouster of Rumsfeld (I’m pretty sure you didn’t miss it, they all called for it last week) Are you arguing that the London Times knows our troops better than the Army Times???!!! Whatever.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:49 pmJuan C
Hey, the Spaniards at that point were challenging their notions about the shape of the world and all that, Columbus was going against Church doctrine in a big way back then. Not only did he somehow survive the contradiction, he actually even managed to get funding for his voyage to India.
Meanwhile the Aztecs were fairly honourable traditionalists who did what their priests told them. While Collumbus was in a position where he could say a priest was wrong, an Aztec of similar rank would have just gotten sacrificed so he could explain his theory to the gods. I don’t think all that many Aztecs raised arguments against the priests back then.
Comparitively speaking I would say that the Aztecs were the more conservative of the two nations at that time.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:50 pmyeah, the soldiers have their collective undies in a bundle because some old silly war-criminal got his walking papers…sure they do:
nice try though…
/reload the troll gun and send another in/
November 10th, 2006 at 12:51 pmExley,
I encourage you to read the whole Times article. Farther down from the excerpt you posted, you will find that:
But one US army colonel, who did not want to be named, said that such positive views were uncommon in the higher ranks of the US military. “We are the ones closer to the problem. We are the ones who have the broader picture,†he said.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:51 pm[...]
Certainly the rank-and-file are trained not to question the decisions of their superiors. “We don’t question why we’re sent here. Our job is to do what we’re told and we do it with pride,†said Sergeant Jason Gomez, a military policeman. When pressed, some also admitted that to question Mr Rumsfeld’s execution of the war would raise doubts about the value of their mission and of their comrades’ deaths.
[...]
But these men are also some of the last believers — people who are still convinced that Iraq can survive its present violence to become a stable democracy. “We’re losing a lot of people over here, but they’re not dying in vain,†Sergeant Gomez insisted.
Oy!
Comment by Juan C as Yenta
Heh.
I have taught you well, grasshopper.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:59 pmBlueDog49….I was simply passing along what I thought was an interesting article. I found what these troops had to say intriguing. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss what they are saying. These are quotes from actual frontline troops, as opposed to the Military Times editorial board, which consists primarily of civilian editors sitting out in Springfield, Virginia.
For the record, I think that Rumsfeld’s departure is a good move. But apparently, these troops who have actulayy served in Iraq, think otherwise.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:00 pm#25 Squegeeboo
You could be right. Iranians may try the same delay tactics as before. Here is what gets me thinking a little differently than you.
Jim Baker’s ISG had been around a while (6 months or more). Robert Gastes is Sec. Def. and he is an open advocate of dialogue with Iran.
The Europeans see the Tuseday results as positive step forward for the US.
Iranians hold the key to the Iraq insurgency and the Hezbollah. If we can get the Iranians to come on board the Iraq situation will have a viable solution.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:01 pmWhile Collumbus was in a position where he could say a priest was wrong, an Aztec of similar rank would have just gotten sacrificed so he could explain his theory to the gods. I don’t think all that many Aztecs raised arguments against the priests back then.
Comparitively speaking I would say that the Aztecs were the more conservative of the two nations at that time.
Comment by Bruce Gorton
I misunderstood. I thought that your point was that liberalism made Cortes win over aztecs. Horses, gun power, europe diseases and aztec superstition defeated aztecs. Stalin wasnt even near to be a liberal and he won WWII.
Human Sacrifices were part of ceremonies created by a cosmovision, where the Sun had to be fed with blood in order for it to keep shining. It was not a punishment like death penalty. (Im sure it wasnt pleasant, also). I agree, it was a very hierarchical (?) society. Now, there were human sacrifices in both shores of the Atlantic, dont forget the Saint Inquisition.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:06 pmI just saw my very close friend who is deployed in Iraq. He came back on leave last month. He told me that most of the enlisted me think that Rummy is an idiot. He also explained that when he first joined the guard 15 years ago, the enlisted me didn’t even know who the secdef was. Now the new recruits come in saying that Rummy is an idiot. His words were “it’s another Vietnam.’ His words, not mine. The solders over their had no confidence in their civilian leaders. They realize that we shouldn’t have been there in the first place. They also recognize what would happen if we just pulled out. It’s a pickle that is going to be really hard to get out of. Maybe some of you RRW’s should talk to some folks that you know that are or have been there. Oh yeah…republicans don’t fight in wars…I forgot…
November 10th, 2006 at 1:08 pmI cant get off the Yenta thing!
November 10th, 2006 at 1:08 pm:)
Lance Cpl. James L. Davis Jr. looked up from his cigarette. “Who’s Rumsfeld?†he asked.
…i don’t know; this guy looks pretty ‘actual’ to me
November 10th, 2006 at 1:09 pmThese are quotes from actual frontline troops, as opposed to the Military Times editorial board, which consists primarily of civilian editors sitting out in Springfield, Virginia.
Comment by Exley — November 10, 2006 @ 1:00 pm
The same article you linked to has a quote from a high-ranking official who dismissed the upbeat opinion of the rank-and-file because they do not have “the bigger picture”.
Moreover, the article also explains that the troops hold on to that opinion because 1) they are trained not to question and 2) questioning Rumsfeld’s conduct of the invasion and occupation would mean that their deaths were in vain.
Finally, the article is clear in that men who want to stay are “some of the last believers”.
But apparently, these troops who have actulayy served in Iraq, think otherwise.
Overall, the article is hardly a ringing endorsement of Rumsfeld’s tenure at the SoD, and it’s clear those troops want to believe Iraq can be salvaged.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:09 pmHey Juan, change your name…
Heh.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:10 pmStalin won WWII??? All by himself???
November 10th, 2006 at 1:10 pmI cant get off the Yenta thing!
:)
Comment by Juan C
That’s what you said last night…
November 10th, 2006 at 1:11 pmStalin won WWII??? All by himself???
Comment by Chris H.
Well, no, Chris. Soviets workers did that for him.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:14 pmAbu Hamza al-Muhajir, also known as Abu Ayyub al-Masri, said in the recording posted on the Internet on Friday that the group had 12,000 armed fighters and 10,000 others waiting to be equipped to fight U.S. troops in Iraq.
“I tell the lame duck (U.S. administration) do not rush to escape as did your defense minister…stay on the battle ground,” he said.
I guess this means that we should leave Iraq now…since the terrorist want us to stay…
November 10th, 2006 at 1:15 pmThat’s what you said last night…
Comment by Yenta
Knew it… ;)
November 10th, 2006 at 1:15 pmYour stupidity is profound.
Tell that to the spanish.
Comment by squegeeboo — November 10, 2006 @ 12:04 pm
Dear Spain,
Squeegeeboo’s stupidity is profound. Thanks for listening.
In a “closely watched race†for the Ohio School Board, pro-science candidate Tom Sawyer “handily defeated incumbent Deborah Owens-Fink,†who had “consistently supported antievolution measures†and described the idea that there is a scientific consensus on evolution as “laughable.â€
And I’m sure right after that, I’m sure Mrs. Fink brought forward all of her evidence that there is scientific consensus on “intelligent design.”
November 10th, 2006 at 1:15 pm#70. Pissed Off. Are you concern that the President of Iran has denied the holocaust ever happen and has made statements to the effect that Israel should be eliminated?
November 10th, 2006 at 1:24 pm#75 Gregor,
I guess what I found most intriguing (and admirable) in the article is not what the troops said about Rumsfeld. As I said, I think Rumsfeld’s departure is a good thing. Not that I villify him, but I do think the “fresh eyes” approach is a good one. No, what I was most struck by was the troops dedication to the mission and wanting to get the job done. I have come to the conclusion that we should probably leave Iraq. But I must admit that when I read troops like this saying they think that we can get the job done over there, I do have second-thoughts and think that since they most likely know more about conditions on the ground in Iraq than you or I do, that maybe we should listen to them before making any final decisions on how best to proceed in Iraq.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:24 pmWow, so I leave for lunch, and the thread finally takes off….figures…
#70 Pissed Off
The Europeans see the Tuseday results as positive step forward for the US.
Right, but how does this help us with Iran at all? Europe has already failed to deal with them, unless your hoping that a combined US-EU front will make the difference.
Iranians hold the key to the Iraq insurgency and the Hezbollah. If we can get the Iranians to come on board the Iraq situation will have a viable solution.
So once again it boils down to can we get the Iranians to play ball with us, I think with a proper dialouge, we can expect a normalization of dialogue to a degree, such as a return to diplomatic relations and proper trade relationships, but that on issues such as Hezbollah and Nuclear stuff, we won’t see eye to eye in the short term, and the nuclear issue is only a short term issue. (Short term being under 10 years in this case)
However it could help with Hezbollah, and if not, at least it’s keeping a proper line of communication open to the enemy, sort of like the phone from the White House to the Kremlin.
#77 Chris H.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:25 pmStalin won WWII??? All by himself???
Of course not, but the Russians deserves most of the credit for the victory in Europe, it was their men, and their tanks that wore-down the German war machine. All the US and GB did was supply the Russians with some of their raw materials, and provide minor, in comparision, distractions for the Germans
Juan C as Yenta
Stalin was no liberal, but he was just that little bit more liberal then Hitler, though on a whole one heck of a lot bloodier. At least Stalin didn’t claim to be acting in the name of God.
In the cold war though, ultimately “Communism” failed because it was less liberal then balanced capitalism, it allowed less freedom and had less room to adapt.
The reason why I say “Communism” in inverted commas is because when you get right down to it, what happened in Russia was not what Marx predicted – Marx’s idea required a industrial nation that had already gone through a strongly capitalist system whereas Russia was a agricultural nation which had only really just been through a feudal system. What Marx predicted is actually a lot closer to what happened in America after the great depression, just without the violent revolution. In short the very fundementals of Soviet Communism disagreed with the fundemental ideas of the guy who came up with the idea of communism in the first place.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:28 pmOf course not, but the Russians deserves most of the credit for the victory in Europe, it was their men, and their tanks that wore-down the German war machine.
Comment by squegeeboo
20 million russian civilians died due to Nazis (not counting Stalin murderous regime). Tell them (not you, Squegee; its rethorical) they didnt win the war by themselves.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:29 pm#87 So, Juan, are you saying that the thousands of American, British, Canadian, and other Allied troops buried at Normandy died in vain? That their role and sacrifice in defeating Nazism was meaningless since the Soviets could have done it all by themselves?
November 10th, 2006 at 1:36 pmand other Allied troops buried at Normandy died in vain? That their role and sacrifice in defeating Nazism was meaningless since the Soviets could have done it all by themselves?
Those troops died to stop the Communist take over of Western Europe, and as a bargining chip to make sure the Soviets would join in against Japan if needed.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:41 pmThis is off topic, did anyone else been surprised how biased the MSM is in their political coverage. I mean, when is Nancy Pelosi going to get her sainthood?
For those of you here that think the MSM carries water for Republicans, you really need to start the meds again. Really, you don’t need to be afraid — reality is not that bad!
Consider this jaw-dropping fact: Since Pelosi was elected as the House Democratic leader in November of 2002, all the way through to late October of 2006, the networks have not once described her as a “liberal.” You read that correctly. Not once. That’s not news coverage. That’s a four-year masquerade party. In 1994, Gingrich was the “national poster boy for resentment and rage.” In 2006, Pelosi was “a mother and a grandmother” who was “known for her trademark smile.”
But no, I guess that’s not biased at all.
This election was a result of the Dems running to the center and the MSM cheerleading them on all the way.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:42 pmEven better News!!!!
Al Qaeda Themselves are now sending there congratz to the new progressive congress. They seem to love the idea that Democrats will control the US government as they feel you guys won’t bother them anymore. Man you guys are getting all kinds of praise from some of your biggest supporters today!!
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-11-10T172059Z_01_IBO132069_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ.xml&src=rss&rpc=22
November 10th, 2006 at 1:43 pmIn short the very fundementals of Soviet Communism disagreed with the fundemental ideas of the guy who came up with the idea of communism in the first place.
Comment by Bruce Gorton
Brilliant post.
My dad (who was in the “communist” party in Argentina…until he found out, what “communism” meant for those “communists”) says that Bolsheviks were mainly farmers and peasants, and few factory workers. No surprise, Russia was a feudal country. Farmers cant made a collective change in society due to the fact that (this is all speculation, of course) farmers dont work together in the sense that factory workers indeed do, they lack the conscience of working pal. For example, cooperativism was invented by 28 textile workers in Rochdale. Communism will be stablished by the working class…somewhere soon, at least in III World countries.
I would say that, communism in America was closer in the days of Parsons and the Chicago Martyrs.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:45 pm#88 In fact, the communism scare from the allies was a primary factor in the invasion. If not, USA allies would have been very eager to simply bomb from the air the germans forces out of existence and wait for the rendition. The war was a trasformed in a race to conquer Europe first, and the better demonstration was the conquest of Germany.
In addition i would bet a couple euros that Squeeg can’t even place Spain in a map, much less know the politics here.
And, in the demonstrations against the Iraq war in 2003, the attendants were from all the political range, left to right, and they were milions, around 2 milions in Madrid (pop ~6 milion), and of 1 milion in Barcelona (pop ~2 milions), among many other demonstrations. Was an unprecedented show of unanimous thinking.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:46 pmI am glad that talk of impeachment is off the table, for now.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:48 pmThere aren’t enough votes in the Senate to convict, so it would be a waste of political energy.
However, when the “oversight” investigations begin, and these clowns are falling all over each other stabbing one another in the back and the full extent of the malfeasance is made public, we may wind up with an impeachment trial anyway.
#92 In the thirties, in fact, existed a Communist Party in the USA, but was actively exterminated (police raids, beatings, incarcerations, murdering of leaders) by the oligarchy of that time. The left has had a little chance of revive in the country. Only remain the ones who want to play the Rep-Dem game, or simply not vote, disfranchised by the futility of creating a new party, due primarily to the enormous private financing needed to run even a minimum PR campaing to have a chance to succeed in a State, or even a city. And, well, if you go to your local bank searching for a credit to fund a communist party in the USA, good luck.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:53 pmmaybe we should listen to them before making any final decisions on how best to proceed in Iraq.
Comment by Exley — November 10, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
Again, the article is clear that these are the “last believers”. How much stock would you put on the opinion of the last believers -of any cause? How much weight does wishful thinking should carry in establishing a plan of action?
If it is clear for the military leaders that the effort is futile, isn’t it their duty to get the troops out of harm’s way?
November 10th, 2006 at 1:54 pmRoger_Roger,
Relax, no one can take away your freedom to be a twit, no one.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:56 pm#92…Juan, Ever see Warren Beatty’s Reds? Great movie…It just FINALLY came out on DVD. I highly recommend it. Fascinating.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:56 pmSo, Juan, are you saying that the thousands of American, British, Canadian, and other Allied troops buried at Normandy died in vain? That their role and sacrifice in defeating Nazism was meaningless since the Soviets could have done it all by themselves?
Comment by Exley
I knew you would jump. I cant find in my post: the thousands of American, British, Canadian, and other Allied troops buried at Normandy died in vain. That their role and sacrifice in defeating Nazism was meaningless since the Soviets could have done it all by themselves
But I will post this: Any person that fought,physically or ideologically, against a totalitarian and murderous regime won that war.
Now, come on, everybody knows that russians stopped Germany in Stalingrad, and then began the landslide.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:57 pmConcerned Conservative
In political language, resentment and rage are good things, they speak of passion. Being grandmotherly isn’t. Rage leads to action, being grandmotherly leads to someone being a total push-over. Resentment means you are at least in touch enough to resent stuff, being Grandmotherly has the exact opposite implication – you are very forgiving because you are too senile to remember you were slighted.
In politics, being called grandmotherly is an insult, being called angry and resentful is a compliment.
So yeah, the media is still conservative.
November 10th, 2006 at 1:58 pm#96 Gregor, I don’t necessarily disagree with you. It is just that this is not the first article I have read in which troops actually stationed in Iraq say that they believe they can “win” or stabilize Iraq if they are given enough time so that a democratic society can take root. There was an excellent article in The Washington Post along the same lines about two or three weeks ago. I will see if I can find it and, if I can, I’ll post it here. I am just staying that when I read what the troops have to say, it gives me pause.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:00 pmThat their role and sacrifice in defeating Nazism was meaningless since the Soviets could have done it all by themselves?
Comment by Exley — November 10, 2006 @ 1:36 pm
The soviets could have, indeed, done it all by themselves. The opening of the second front in Europe was done in part because of that distinct possibility (look at a map and tell me which side covered more terrain).
Having said that, I don’t think their deaths were meaningless: Even though the scale seemed to be tipping towards the Soviet side, a war is not over until it’s over.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:00 pmAnd, well, if you go to your local bank searching for a credit to fund a communist party in the USA, good luck.
Comment by Evil Spaniard
???? But is the land of the free.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:00 pm/sarcasm off
Ever see Warren Beatty’s Reds? Great movie…It just FINALLY came out on DVD.
Comment by Exley
No…Clueless. He is still making movies?
November 10th, 2006 at 2:02 pm#92. Juan C. I agree with you that Soviet communism was not what it was supposed to be. The point I would like to make, is, in theory communism is wonderful. In practice, it is an abomination. I believe that liberals think that an appropriate response to Islamic fundamentalism is to let them be and there will be peace. I think the same naivety that entrusts communism with the common good, advocates the position that terrorists will desist if we respect them and not interfer with their rights.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:03 pmRoger Roger
Did it ever occur to you that terrorist leaders would say they wanted whomever we elect to office, just to add doubt in the minds of Americans, as a act of fear-mongering? I, for one, don’t care who THEY think is right for OUR country. If you do, then you are helping them.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:04 pmOh and as a PS:
Post 100 was not intended to insult grandmothers. It was more intended to point out what getting called grandmotherly means when you are a politician. Out of a political context being called grandmotherly is a good thing, inside the political context though, is another story.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:05 pm#97,
I am just letting your guys see all your “fan mail” from abroad. I figured you would be pleased with all the foreign support your getting. I mean,m screw beating terrorist, lets be friends and “understand” them. Either way, AQ and the Terrorist leaders of Iran look to be more then supportive of your progressive agenda. Good for you guys for making friends so quickly!!!
November 10th, 2006 at 2:06 pmI am just staying that when I read what the troops have to say, it gives me pause.
Comment by Exley — November 10, 2006 @ 2:00 pm
It gives me pause too, Exley. It gives me pause and it breaks my heart.
There will always be people who cling on to the last straw of hope that they will win, due to thoughts of honor, fear of shame, trying to make sense of their life, etc.
Now that the WWII subject has cropped up, there were German troops on the ground who wanted to keep fighting, even after the Führer had committed suicide. Should their government continued the fight? What would that have accomplished? That is, besides polonging the bloodshed and destruction.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:06 pm#104 Juan, “Reds” was released in 1981. Beatty won the Best Director Oscar for it. It is the story of the American Communist Party in the early 20th Century. Beatty plays radical journalist John Reed, who wrote “Ten Days That Shook the World.” You should rent or buy it. I think you’d enjoy it. It’s very good.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:10 pmPaul, Exley, Roger, many Democrats feel that we will be able to fight the war on terrorism more effectively if we cooperate better with the rest of the world. That’s a far cry from “just letting the terrorists be.” Can we give the straw men a rest, guys. You lost. You don’t need to be spouting talking points for at least a year. Take some time off and relax. The world is not going to come to an end.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:10 pmExley, Concerned Conservative, Roger_Roger and others. The liberals here were saying that conservative ‘trolls’ would be nowhere to be found if the Democrats won the election. Were they wrong? I almost feel that I’ve stumbled on to a conservative blog. Thank you for providing some sanity to this site.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:11 pmIn practice, it is an abomination. Comment by paul
One question: Why is it an abomination equal chances for every human being? Welfare, Healthcare, 100% literacy, no greed, no pollution?
November 10th, 2006 at 2:12 pmI think you’d enjoy it. It’s very good.
Comment by Exley
Thank you…I will.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:13 pm#99…Juan, Absolutely, the Russians played a major, major role in defeating Hitler (They also played a role in helping Hitler build up his war machine, but that is a different story)….Would the Soviets have ultimately defeated Hitler on their own? Possibly…Maybe even probably. But the war certainly would gone on longer and been much bloodier if the Second Front was not opened up by the other Allies at Normandy.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:14 pmNo Bush impeachment, no investigation into the 4 trillion missing from the U.S. Treasury, no repel of the Patriot Act or the Military commissions Act or the torture Bill….etc.
Your Bill of Rights is dead … what good is freedom of speech or any of the other rights – if the government can lock you up forever without a trial? This applies to U.S. citizens my friends … not just foreigners in far off lands.
What has changed since the election? … these guys are all in it together.
Rumsfield or no Rumsfield the machine rolls on.
http://stopspp.com/stopspp/index.php
November 10th, 2006 at 2:15 pmhttp://www.jonesreport.com/articles/021006_american_union.html
I almost feel that I’ve stumbled on to a conservative blog. Thank you for providing some sanity to this site.
Comment by paul
How that comment helps the discussion?
November 10th, 2006 at 2:16 pmThank you for providing some sanity to this site.
Comment by paul — November 10, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
“some sanity to this site”? Does “Democrats want the terrorists to win” sound like coherent, sane talk to you?
How about “would you want a bunch of tree hugging hippi’s in charge that simply want to hold hands and help you build your nukes” ? Or “Let’s be friends with the terrorists”?
Do these statements seem sound and sane to you? Really?
November 10th, 2006 at 2:17 pmFrom the latest Roll Call: “The hundreds of Republican staffers — not to mention more than a few Members — who will lose their jobs in the next few weeks are going to face a hostile marketplace on K Street as unemployed Republicans flood the market.”
What, you mean sliming around kissing asses at the Heritage Foundation doesn’t automatically get you a job anymore???!!! That’s just not fair to young college republicans! Poor things.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:17 pm#111 BlueDog, I have never said the Democrats just want to let the terrorists be. I have heard many, many Democrats say that they support sending more troops to Afghanistan (with which I fully agree)…I do disagree with those who Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with the War on Terror. It is a battle in that war. Maybe not the central one, and maybe one we cannot win, but a battle nevertheless.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:18 pm#85
You read my mind. Your take on what I was trying to say is correct and to the point.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:18 pm#80
I guess this means that we should leave Iraq now…since the terrorist want us to stay…
That raises a good question. When the terrorists announce what they want us to do, does that mean they really want us to do it? Or are they figuring that we’ll do the opposite of what they say they want, and that’s really what they want us to do? Or do they know that we think they’re using reverse psychology and then tell us what they really want us to do, knowing that we’ll do it because we think they want us to do the opposite of what they say they want us to do? Oh no, I’ve gone cross-eyed.
At any rate, no matter how you react to the statements of the terrorists, you stand about a 50-50 chance of outsmarting yourself and doing exactly what they want you to do. Give or take a percent.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:19 pmWow the richest man in the world is now the Secretary of Defense.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:20 pmGovt. Mule: “No Bush impeachment, no investigation into the 4 trillion missing from the U.S. Treasury, no repel of the Patriot Act or the Military commissions Act or the torture Bill….etc.”
Here’s a thought. Rather than get hysterical now, why don’t we let them take office in January and see what happens. And, please, we’re not repubs. We don’t say “let’s impeach him” and then go about finding a way to do it. I would think that we fulfiill our constitutional duty to investigate and provide oversight. If constitutional crimes are unearthed, you take it from there. Not the other way around, OK?
November 10th, 2006 at 2:20 pmExley, I think it was Paul who erected that particular straw man.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:21 pmThey also played a role in helping Hitler build up his war machine, but that is a different story
100% agreed. Im for justice, not for colors. I was talking about the russian people. They won the war. Her women were raped and tortured, their kids burned, their houses destroyed (I could be describing palestinians). In Stalingrad, women and children fought nazis in their houses while workers fixed tanks in factories under German fire. Now, I could say the same for the polish resistance, etc.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:22 pmWhy is it an abomination equal chances for every human being? Welfare, Healthcare, 100% literacy, no greed, no pollution?
Comment by Juan C
You mean like in Cuba, Juan? That sure seems to be paradise to me…
The problem is that the goal is unattainable due to human nature — i.e. you can’t govern greed away, you can only try to moderate it.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:23 pm#113. Juan. you are missing my point. I would sell everything and give it to the state if your vision were possible. I’m just asking you to think about where communism has been tried and exam the results. Human Rights in the former Soviet Union? China? The only positive thing people say about China is that they have adopted western style economic reform. I wish the world could be the way you want it to be. I am just skeptical about adopting the theory into practice (for good reason).
November 10th, 2006 at 2:24 pmThe Soviet Union lost at least 20 million of their citizens fighting the Nazis. It would be nice if we could simply appreciate their sacrifice without turning it into a political issue.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:26 pm#90
This is off topic, did anyone else been surprised how biased the MSM is in their political coverage. I mean, when is Nancy Pelosi going to get her sainthood?
The MSM stuck their collective finger in the air on Tuesday and figured out which way the wind is blowing. After 6+ years of blowing in a rightward, ‘let’s-give-Bush-a-great-big-smooch-on-the-ass’ direction, they ‘think’ the wind has shifted in the other direction. As Fox News’ ratings continue to plummet, the others may have stopped trying to model themselves after the “fair and balanced” ones.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:28 pm#128 Roger_Roger
While your thoughts may work in theory, in reality AQ and the Terrorist leader of Iran have both come out publicly for the Democrats and even offered congratz for the win. They both went on to say how they like the Dems much more because you won’t prosecute the war on terror. I can’t think of a better way to guess which side these groups choose in our elections.
Funny. Our own intelligence agencies said the exact opposite about the ‘04 election. And, are you pretty sure the terrorists would tell us what outcome they really want from our elections and expect us to deliver that outcome? Wouldn’t public statements like that tend to make Americans vote against the purported wishes of the terrorists?
The terrorists aren’t stupid. If they were, we wouldn’t be so afraid of them. The Republicans who follow your logic, on the other hand…
November 10th, 2006 at 2:35 pm#122. Exley. We could win the war in Iraq if we had the will to win it.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:36 pmConcerned Conservative
The major product Cuba produces is sugar. Their second biggest product is tobacco. They are a agricultural nation whose prior governments were fascist, which in real terms is a political system that is even more primitive then feudalism.
True communism (as Marx described it) requires a state to first be fully industrialised and to have gone through a stage of pure capitalism for it to qualify as even being possible for it to become communist. Otherwise it just degenerates into being a totalitarian dictatorship, which is precisely what Cuba is.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:36 pmMSM giving Pelosi sainthood???!!! You must be watching a different set of MSM networks. All I hear is “you’ve got to be bipartisan” and “the American people don’t want impeachment,” and “let’s move forward — don’t worry about the past.” I hear Bush insulting the winners “Terrorists shouldn’t be celebrating,” “allies shouldn’t be afraid,” “Troops shouldn’t be disheartened.”
And, I see talking heads demanding an answer on Iraq from Dems after not demanding an answer from the adminsitration for three years.
I don’t remember them telling repubs that they had to be bipartisan. I seem to recall that the media was on board with spending over $100 million investigating a 20-year old land deal. What I remember is republicans and talking heads repeating speeches about “the rule of law.”
November 10th, 2006 at 2:37 pmJust to be clear hear…this lefty thinks that you commies are as bad as the repugnicans and the terrorist.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:40 pmPaul: “We could win the war in Iraq if we had the will to win it.”
Just warmed over, Viet Nam-era B.S. We heard that before, Paul. Turns out even people like Henry Kissinger, who were saying things like that in public, didn’t even believe it. You couldn’t define exactly what that would look like then and you can’t do it today.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:40 pmWe could win the war in Iraq if we had the will to win it.
Comment by paul — November 10, 2006 @ 2:36 pm
Says the man who claims to have an open mind.
Now I know there is no way you can measure anyone else’s mental sanity, because you are repeating Vietnam-era talking points.
I guess you think it’s the media’s fault for not conveying the “good news”, and that the problem is not a wrong policy but a poor execution. Puh-leeze…
November 10th, 2006 at 2:43 pmwho gives a royal crap who’s celebrating our democratic victory? We’re celebrating and that’s all that matters – besides, in this Orwellian Bush white house, a lie is truth, peace is war, democracy is fascism, and a vote for a dem is a vote for a terrotist. What nonsense! To even intelligently begin to discuss what terrorists are saying/feeling about the salvation of our democracy is not only inane and stupid but totally “out there” and without any intellectual substance. Perhaps you’re “hearing voices” as a symptom of your paranoid schizophrenia so you absolutely “know” what all terrorists are thinking….get some meds, please.
In the meantime, no sense allowing Trolls (Totally Repulsive and Out of (their) League Liars) to hijack our victory celebration into a dissection of drivel and nonsense……
Hooray for the Democrats and the people for throwing the bums out of office….Now that’s what really matters!
Who gives a flying f— what some quasi-terrorist-german-frenchman-hitman-terrorist thinks about our victory anyway??
November 10th, 2006 at 2:44 pmMy previous post was directed to RogerRogerRabbitFood!
November 10th, 2006 at 2:45 pmpaul:
Here is how you win in Iraq: Define victory, achieve it, get out.
So far the Republicans have failed on the first third of that statement.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:45 pmBluedog49
You have to have congressional oversight to discover something and their is NO oversight on most of Bush’s programs … the fact that 4 trillion is missing – proves somethings wrong.
So Dems arenot the Republicans huh … hard to tell from here.
It took alot of Dems in Congress voting alongside Bush to get all these laws passed – including Sherrod Brown voting FOR the torture Bill. which allows for the torture of young children and INNOCENT 3rd party’s … spin that and make it look good.
North American Union http://www.spp.gov/ has Jimmy Carter and John Kerry sitting on the board right along with the Republicans.
Nothings changing but the weather.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:47 pmMule: “Nothings changing but the weather.”
Again, Mule, change doesn’t happen until they actually have the power. That happens in January. So far, they’ve made it clear that they will impliment the suggestions of the 9-11 commission, re-introduce stem cell funding, lower the interest rate on college loans and break legislative ties between lawmakers and lobbyists. I would call that a very nice, almost veto-free beginning. It’s called “the system,” and as much as you don’t appreciate it, if it works like it’s supposed to, it’s one of the best in the world.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:53 pmSaid the Klingon commander of the 109th chickenhawk to his underling as they sat safely revolving the tiny world in the narrow universe they lived in.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:57 pmTo even intelligently begin to discuss what terrorists are saying/feeling about the salvation of our democracy is not only inane and stupid but totally “out there†and without any intellectual substance.
Comment by Isis — November 10, 2006 @ 2:44 pm
Perfect description of the strawman argument tactic the trolls are so fond of.
Not only that, they would refrain from a sane course of action because of what others might think or say.
Talk about lack of self-assurance and convictions.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:00 pmBruce Gorton
Hey, my posts don’t take very long at all, though sometimes they seem to take a while appearing.
At least your’s always appear.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:01 pm(but I’m not bitter)
#154…lower the interest rate on college loans I’m all for that!!!!! Will this be retroactive (he asks hopefully)?
November 10th, 2006 at 3:01 pmThe old saying what goes around come around is at it again. Just read where Noreago has won the president of Nicaragua which the US spent so much money helping Contra oust him back in the eightys. The same thing will happen in Iraq down the road no matter which side wins today
November 10th, 2006 at 3:09 pmHooray!!!! my comments are back, thanks TP. To everyone else sorry for the repetiveness of my last couple, just trying to see if I could get one past the filter.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:09 pmNo your not.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:14 pm#164 Dog_named_Boo
No your not.
Of course not, I’m a conservative libertarian, we don’t care about anyone/thing besides ourselves, so there is no chance for us to have empathy for people who may have to read something that is repetitive, but I can at least put on the proper social facade can’t I?
November 10th, 2006 at 3:18 pmHere is how you win in Iraq: Define victory, achieve it, get out.
So far the Republicans have failed on the first third of that statement.
Comment by Bruce Gorton
Bruce, you are absolutely correct!
November 10th, 2006 at 3:19 pmI think I now love you!
November 10th, 2006 at 3:21 pmRoger:
“a bunch of tree hugging hippi’s in charge that simply want to hold hands and help you build your nukes”
Come on now, that’s no way to talk about your buddies at Halliburton. You do know that Halliburton has been charged in providing Nuclear technology to Iran, don’t you?
You do also realize under which Administration Iran has become more nuclear capable, I’m sure.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:25 pmI think I now love you!
Comment by Dog_named_Boo
SqeugeeBOO… DogNamed BOO… hey, wait a minute — you guys have the same last name! That’s kinda wierd in an incestual kinda way.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#167 Dog_named_Boo
I think I now love you!
I’d like to say that I care, but you know how it is…
Just kidding, thanks, whenever I can, I try to bring a laugh into politics, and I always appreciate it when it’s well recieved.
June
You do also realize under which Administration Iran has become more nuclear capable, I’m sure.
Bush also got the most votes EVER for president in 2004, so it must mean that everybody loved him, no?
November 10th, 2006 at 3:30 pmJust like Clinton signed NAFTA into law – which was Reagan and Bush Sr’s baby – when he could have flushed it down the toilet for the turd it is.
Take a look or vote in this current poll on Bush’s impeachment – tell me what the people really want and what the Dem’s are giving them.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/
Nothing will change come Jan. – Dean and Pelosi and the sellout Conyers already made nice with Bush – like they were ever on opposing sides.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:33 pmWWF tactics – and most people eat it up with a spoon.
Thanks for the post and poll above….the people overwhelmingly are calling for impeachment and if Pelosi and Dean fail to listen to the voice of those who elected them, then the people will have to express their outrage otherwise – by ejecting them from office next time.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:36 pmI guess it’s getting to be time for the paid trolls to “punch out” soon – they’ve become noticeably silent. Hooray!
November 10th, 2006 at 3:38 pmsqueegeeboo,
You are aware it is currently 2006, right? You do have some understanding that this most recent election was a referendum on the President and his policies, don’t you?
Okay, good.
November 10th, 2006 at 3:39 pm#171
Nothing will change come Jan. – Dean and Pelosi and the sellout Conyers already made nice with Bush – like they were ever on opposing sides.
Okay, we gotcha, Eeyore. How about if you come back in early February and you can tell us that the Dems have done absolutely nothing different than the Republicans. Sound good?
November 10th, 2006 at 3:58 pmChumpeach:
Ill be here will you?
what story will it be then – when/if your wrong?
Did you even read the SPP docs?
November 10th, 2006 at 4:04 pmhttp://stopspp.com/stopspp/?page_id=11
That’s a great poll, 87% say impeach!
But here’s a newsweek article indicating a very different perception – Poll taken 19=0/19-20
Other parts of a potential Democratic agenda receive less support, especially calls to impeach Bush: 47 percent of Democrats say that should be a “top priority,†but only 28 percent of all Americans say it should be, 23 percent say it should be a lower priority and nearly half, 44 percent, say it should not be done. (Five percent of Republicans say it should be a top priority and 15 percent of Republicans say it should be a lower priority; 78 percent oppose impeachment.) Rolling back some of the Bush tax cuts would be contentious too: 38 percent of Americans say the Dems should make that a top priority; 28 percent say it should be a lower priority; and 28 percent say it shouldn’t be done at all.
The political reality is that there aren’t enough votes in the Senate to convict.
After hearing all of the evidence and closing arguments, the Senate deliberates behind closed doors then votes in open session on whether to convict or acquit the President. The vote to convict must be by a two thirds majority, or 67 Senators
Unless the investigations and hearings uncover and document the Bush atrocities to the point where all Democratic and Independents AND 16 Republican Senators vote for conviction, all you get is a dog and pony show.
If the Democrats are to impeach, they need to remove the mofo, not just put on a charade. Anything less helps the Republicans in 08.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:05 pmHey, Exley’s back again! The commentator who was wrong on nearly every post leading up to the election is trying again to push through his wrong ideas. Why would anyone listen to you, Exley? You’re track record is horrible.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:09 pm#177. chimpeach. how’s it going? Let’s say you get your impeachment. What do you think about this scenerio?
The impeachment is a drawn out affair with lots of subpoenas and media coverage (maybe a full year and half). The Democrats are charging that Bush overreached, lied about the intel, went too far with the torture bill and the domestic spying. In the middle of all this there is a domestic terror attack similar to 9/11 with plenty of dead Americans. (not because Democrats have taken back congress, just due to happenstance). It could happen; we both know the borders are still wide open and terrorists are still upset. Have you given any thought to how it would play with middle America? Democrats accusing Bush of criminal overreach, at a time when many might be wondering if we went far enough to protect Americans? Just curious.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:11 pm“Of course not, I’m a conservative libertarian” Comment by squegeeboo
Libertarians are a hoot. They’re like a political crazy cousin; standing in the middle of the street, trying to convince everyone they’re going the wrong way.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:13 pm#180….Hey AYTRWS…I am surprised to see you back so soon after I showed everybody how wrong you were yesterday when you falsely claimed that I predicted the GOP would prevail on Tuesday, when in fact I correctly predicted back on Oct. 2 that the Republicans would in fact lose both Houses of Congress….
“This disgusting incident is SO going to turn off the base of the party, keeping so many religious conservatives home on Election Day, that it is not even a question any more — The GOP loses both houses of Congress…and deservedly so.â€
Comment by Exley — October 2, 2006 @ 3:49 pm
But that’s okay, pal…I accept your apology and forgive you for your ignorance. But try to do better next time..Okay?
November 10th, 2006 at 4:14 pmHave you given any thought to how it would play with middle America? Democrats accusing Bush of criminal overreach, at a time when many might be wondering if we went far enough to protect Americans? Just curious.
Comment by paul
Well, if it’s a major catastrophe, like a chemical plant explosion, the first thing that would become apparent is that we still don’t have the National Guard troops to respond, and if it came to apportioning blame, this would also be a factor.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:18 pmbarfly
Libertarians are a hoot. They’re like a political crazy cousin; standing in the middle of the street, trying to convince everyone they’re going the wrong way.
Nonsense, were trying to get people off the street, and onto the dirt path next to it, which everyone used to have to use until the nanny state funded road construction to help commerce. (The military roads, we don’t mind so much)
November 10th, 2006 at 4:19 pmI am absolutly concerned. However, unlike the neo-cons, I can separate the rhetoric from the reality.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:19 pmPaul, the only reason the Democrats should wait to impeach Bush and Cheney is to have enough time to build an airtight case such that at least sixteen Republican Senators have NO ALTERNATIVE but to vote for conviction.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:22 pmThay may happen sooner than you think. Middle America will be outraged when they find out the inner workings of this administration that has been screwing them for six years.
Say Halliburton, say KelloggBrownRoot, say missing billions traced to secret accounts…
test comment
November 10th, 2006 at 4:23 pmtest commentzzzzzzzz
November 10th, 2006 at 4:25 pmYou mean like in Cuba, Juan? That sure seems to be paradise to me…
Comment by Concerned Conservative
I would like to see US under a 40 y/o embargo…
November 10th, 2006 at 4:37 pmoh, wait, some parts of US DO seem under a 40 y/o embargo!
We could win the war in Iraq if we had the will to win it.
Comment by paul
Too many of our troops have already had to use their wills for this useless war, thanks to George “Widowmaker” Bush.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:38 pmTest Comment, and Commentzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz successful.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:38 pm#170 – squegeeboo,
November 10th, 2006 at 4:41 pmNo, just Diebold.
We could win the war in Iraq if we had the will to win it.
Comment by paul
Is this a matter of honor to you, paul? Why dont you go there and fight for your honor? Is this about not wanting to lose? US has already lost some wars. Wont be the first time. Why dont you see that you cant define victory? There will be always people who would like to blow some US soldiers if you keep KILLING THEIR FAMILIES.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:44 pmRUCerious – I agree. Let the oversight investigations lead where they will. If they uncover irrefutable evidence that Bush/Cheney failed to uphold the Constitution and failed in their sworn duty to faithfully execute the law of the land (which, by the way, includes treaties) then, there should be enough votes to impeach and convict.
It would be nice if there were bipartisan cooperation in the investigation committees, with Republicans just as interested in uncovering the truth as Democrats. In fact, that would do more to restore the credibility of the Republican Party than just about anything else they can do for the next two years.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:46 pmThat’s cute – Paul is acknowledging that the Iraq war is a failed experiment, just like Viet Nam, then trying to cover his dishonest tracks with the false characterization that’s been applied to Nam ever since we left, that it could have been won if we’d stuck it out. I’m sure some Germans were saying the same thing vis a vis France in ‘46, and some Russians no doubt said it about Afghanistan in ‘88-89…..false in every instance of course, but cute, to see Paul trying to stretch out his little rhetorical wings and attempt to take flight….sometimes, Paul, there just isn’t anything to win – the game ends and no one is a winner and no one is a loser (aside from those killed and maimed in the process of demonstrating there was nothing to “win” in the first place).
Conservatives take naive to levels no acid-tripping Hippy could ever hope to achieve.
November 10th, 2006 at 4:52 pmGoodnight all, have a funtastic weekend.
November 10th, 2006 at 5:23 pmBNF – Wouldn’t that be something! I trust politicians to do one thing. Put a finger to the fair wind and go the way it blows.
November 10th, 2006 at 5:34 pmIt doesn’t matter if 95% of the people say they want him impeached. You don’t decide to impeach and then look for a good excuse. You examine and investigate possible constitutional crimes, take testimony into record, and build a case. Remember, Democrats are in charge now. They have respect for our civil government and our constitutional system. And, believe me, I’m not saying he shouldn’t be impeached. I’m just saying that congress must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that constitutional crimes worthy of impeachment have been committed before they start talking about impeachment.
Besides, the Dems have some serious work to do in those first 100 hours. Don’t worry, nobody has flushed Charlie Dingle’s list of possible crimes down the toilet. It will come into play in good time. Personally, I think there is legislation they should get to quickly first before they move on to investigations, but I think things will happen concurrently, so it’s probably not even an issue.
November 10th, 2006 at 5:34 pm#178 Govt. Ass
Ill be here will you?
what story will it be then – when/if your wrong?
We got your point. No difference between Democrats and Republicans. Just like Nader said. Obviously it wouldn’t have made any difference whether Gore or Bush won. We’d have had global warming and a war with Iraq either way. We’re so lucky to have clairvoyants like you.
November 10th, 2006 at 5:36 pmBlueDog – `~ Spot on.
November 10th, 2006 at 5:44 pmLet’s start with an off-the-wall assumption, that members of the PNAC inside our government had more to do with the events of 9/11 than Bin Laden. The power of the Presidency has increased while civil liberties have decreased. War Profiteers have raked in billions and American Imperialist interests have expanded.
Now there’s a Democrat controlled Congress, and the “necessary tools” of illegal wiretaps and “coercive interrogation” are discontinued. If you were the PNAC and wished to discredit the Democratic Congress and create a need to permanently allow the President dictatorial powers, would you have a back-up plan for a repeat 9/11, only on a broader scale?
Think of it: a “terrorist” attack, hitting dozens of sites on the same day, could be used to “prove” the Democrats wrong on terror and wrong to impeach Bush/Cheney. People would forget that 5 years of suspended civil liberties produced no viable terrorist cells in the U.S. which then suddenly sprang up and executed successful attacks within 6-8 months of Democrat control of Congress.
yeah, that would kick of the 2008 campaign season with a bang. sorry. just sayin’
November 10th, 2006 at 5:53 pm#181 paul
The impeachment is a drawn out affair with lots of subpoenas and media coverage (maybe a full year and half). The Democrats are charging that Bush overreached, lied about the intel, went too far with the torture bill and the domestic spying. In the middle of all this there is a domestic terror attack similar to 9/11 with plenty of dead Americans.
Actually, we had something almost like that already. When Clinton was in office, we had not only impeachment, but the Republicans handing him over a 1,000 subpoenas for the most trivial things, certainly nothing on the scale of lying us into a war, killing 1,000s of our own troops, dangerously weakening our nation’s defenses, and attempting to subvert the Constitution. At the same time we did have attempts at domestic terror attacks, all but one of which were foiled. The WTC attempt was prosecuted and the perps were jailed.
So often I’ve heard Republicans defend Bush by saying that he doesn’t really need to be a hands-on president, because he’s got so many capable people around him to handle things. On the morning of 9/11, he certainly wasn’t running things. So, I don’t know that we need to worry about him being distracted by an impeachment. Distracted from what? Bike riding?
I think there’s plenty there to impeach, and I wouldn’t want to see anyone of either party getting away with the stuff he’s pulled. But, I’m willing to wait out the investigations into war profiteering, politicization of every office of the administration, and the Phase II investigation of the White House’s use of intelligence. I’m really being brief here, because I could fill a couple of pages if I just start a laundry list of all the potential crimes in all the different areas of interest that need to be investigated. It’s funny to hear Republicans throwing the word “overreach” around as if it’s not something they’ve spent the last six years doing. Bushco had its fingers in many many pies, not content to just mess around a little bit. It’s going to take a long time to unravel this mess. Like I said, I’ m willing to wait it out. It may take so long that he’s out of office by the time they can compile the articles of impeachment. As much as I’d love to see the little f*cker go down, I think it’s much more important for this country to learn what he and his cronies have done. At that point, he may have to be incarcerated just to keep the angry mobs from tearing him limb from limb.
November 10th, 2006 at 5:56 pmAs Clinton was trying very hard to kill bin Laden with cruise missles and Special Forces, Republicans were forcing Clinton to stay in four-hour depositions in which he was asked questions about oral sex. And I’m sure all the while Paul stared off into space with a big smile on his face. Now, he’s deeply concerned about what an impeachment proceeding could do to the operational ability of the executive. Hey Paul, why the sea change?
November 10th, 2006 at 6:12 pmBriseadh na Faire. So the Bush administration can mastermind the 9/11 attacks and cover them up, but they can’t figure out a way to plant WMDs in Iraq to legitimize the war? And while there at it, why not pull 10,000 votes out of their hats to take the Virginia Senate seat (that would be easy). You seem like a sincere thoughtful person, but on this 9/11 conspiracy, you are on another planet.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:12 pmAnd, Breasidh, “democrat” is a noun. The adjective is “democratic.” Just because republican spin masters have taught their cultists to use the word wrong doesn’t mean we have to follow along.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:14 pmTo all us veterans, I wish each and every one a peaceful veterans day tomorrow. I salute your service, and I hoist a single finger salute to the present CINC.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:21 pm#194. Juan. I spent 10 years in the military. I have some combat time. I would do it again. I don’t have a problem losing or admitting when I am wrong. I believe the answer to Islamic fundamentalism (or Christian fundamentalism for that matter) that promotes hatred of non-believers (westerners and Jews) is democracy and freedom. I just believe there is no other plausible solution. I could be mistaken, but I get the feeling from the left that if we just leave the middle east alone and give up Israel, there could be peace. I don’t believe that. I see the pre-9/11 terrorist attacks (on the towers, cole, embassies, etc), 9/11, the train bombings, the danish cartoon incident, the pope incident, the attempt to kill the middle eastern christian simply for being a christian, the German play cancellation, and others, as unacceptable attacks on western values and beliefs. I am not getting the sense that progressives see the same thing. Liberals are to busy blaming westerners for the problems they can’t see the intolerance and hate coming from the middle east.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:36 pmyeah, that would kick of the 2008 campaign season with a bang. sorry. just sayin’
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Shit. I hope you’re wrong.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:52 pm#196. tom baker. I wouldn’t try to belittle you, because I’m not afraid of the points you make. The way you talk, you make it sound like no war has ever been won in the past. Or maybe no war has ever been worth fighting. If you agree with the idea that some wars are won, I’m sure you might agree that the will of the people involved in the war has bearing on the outcome of the war (not the size of dog in fight but size of the fight in the dog). If you are satisfied with that rationale, you would probably agree that political division hinders rather than helps achieve victory (united we stand, divide we fall). Regardless of whether you think the war is just or not, the idea that something can be accomplished if you have the will is universally accepted. I guess the opposing view might be: Give up at the first signs of adversity. I’ll say it a different way. We can win this war if we have the will to do it.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:58 pmPaul, freedom and democracy may truly be the ultimate answer to Islamic Fundamentalism, but the question is whether or not you can spread democracy and freedom with the barrel of a gun. I don’t think it works that way.
And, regarding your “why didn’t they pull 10,000 votes” thing, you should know that two of the only places in America where exit polling did not match results were Virginia and Montana. There may have been some computer-based fraud that wasn’t sufficient to overcome the Democratic turnout. At least we have a better chance now of finding out if something like that did happen.
November 10th, 2006 at 6:59 pmOh come on, Paul, we all know there have been wars worth fighting. If we don’t fight the axis, we’re all either dead or speaking German. The question is whether we die for a truly strategic reason or a political reason. All of our wars since WWII have been political. That’s why there has been more resistance to them than there was to WWII.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:06 pmPaul – I totally see what you’re saying to Juan there. I agree with you that the radical wahabbi muslim guys are vermin – I would shoot them myself without remorse. The big point a lot of people around here are sticking to isn’t that their evil is our fault (or that it’s excusable), it’s that we can’t change them forcibly. All throughout civilized history that has been tried, and it has always failed. The only way the radicals there will change stripes is through natural obsolesence (evolution, if you will), the same way every other radicalized social group does. We may not feel we have the patience for that, but that’s our feelings talking, not reality operating.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:07 pm#205. Bluedog49. You are talking to someone who believes that the President didn’t lie to get us into the war. There is a difference between poor performance and criminal activity. Do what you want to do. Besides the distraction from all the other issues, I would welcome an impeachment to watch Democrats expose themselves as the party of conspiracy theory. It would give us an excellent opportunity to groom another one of ours to be the next President of the United States.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:08 pmThe real way to fight Islamic fundamentalism is 1. economic development aimed at poverty in the middle east; 2. keeping the price of a barrel of oil down under $50, 3. cooperate with the rest of the world’s law enforcement agencies, and, 4. Fully fund more Special Forces for quick-strike operations.
As we have seen, attacking countries in the middle east and killing hundreds of thousands of their people, for some reason, isn’t working.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:13 pm212, 213, 214. Bluedog49 and tom baker. Okay, this is a rational debate even I can understand. Can you believe that the neocons actually thought that after we took out Saddam that we would be greeted as liberators?
November 10th, 2006 at 7:18 pmIf they actually believed it and they thought it would provide the democracy that would neutralize the radicalism, are they guilty of lies and war crimes or bad judgement?
November 10th, 2006 at 7:22 pmPaul, if your only problem were trying to prove that he didn’t lie us into war, it would be a lot easier. Unfortunately, there are many other issues, some big, some not so big. Just secretly transfering $700 million of taxpayer money dedicated to Afganistan to Iraq, for example, is a clearer constitutional crime than anything Clinton was impeached for. Threatening your own OMB accountant with termination if he tells congress the true cost of the Medicare Bill is actually more of an impeachable offense than lying about a blowjob.
Not that I don’t think a case will be made that they lied us into war. John Dean has already written a book on that called “Worse than Watergate.”
November 10th, 2006 at 7:22 pmThe joke below is a bit old (I was passing it around last year). But since my cousin in Texas (a former Republican) sent it to me in the past week, I thought I may as well share it with people who may not have seen it yet.
Question: How many members of the Bush Administration are needed to change a light bulb?
Answer: TEN.
1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be changed;
2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs to be changed;
3. One to blame Clinton for burning out the light bulb;
4. One to tell the nations of the world that they are either for changing the light bulb or for eternal darkness;
5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton for a new light bulb;
6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor and standing on a step ladder under the banner “Bulb Accomplished” ;
7. One administration insider to resign and in detail reveal how Bush was literally “in the dark” the whole time;
8. Another one to viciously smear #7;
9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has had a strong light bulb-changing policy all along;
10. And finally, one to confuse Americans about the difference between screwing in a light bulb and screwing the country.
And after all is said and done, no one will notice that they never actually managed to change the light bulb.
Pass this on. Help cure Mad Cowboy Disease
November 10th, 2006 at 7:23 pmPaul: “Can you believe that the neocons actually thought that after we took out Saddam that we would be greeted as liberators?”
Of course, but so what. Are you suggesting that their beliefs somehow absolve them of accountability for mistakes. And, their belief might have embolden them to tell some lies to congress, thinking it would all work out well in the end.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:27 pmPaul, I don’t want you to think I’m running away from a good argument on this, but gotta go. Bye.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:31 pmBluedog49. Me too. Good crowd. Gotta go. #220. Lora. hilarious. Thank you.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:36 pmWill they all just walk away? Will the criminals who planned and carried out an illegal war with huge consequences simply fade away into history at the end of their terms of office? Many already have, and many more will follow.
The new power that the Democrats have in Congress will be a telling moment for the resurrection of their lost backbones. The root of so much evil in the past six years has been hidden in the secret world of DICK CHENEY
It’s time to pull back the curtain.
This excerpt is part of a challenge to the Democrats in Congress to take on Cheney…who has already stated he would not answer a subpoena issued by any investigating committee. It’s time to test that assertion. Let’s see if anyone conjures up the guts to do so:
Full editorial:
HERE
http://www.tvnewslies.org//blog/?p=486
November 10th, 2006 at 10:01 pmPaul, are you referring to the war on drugs, or are you just on drugs.?
November 10th, 2006 at 10:38 pmhey #2 ROGER ROGER MACHO MACHO MAN!!!… I hear the Iranian regime supports good dental hygiene. does that mean if i brush my teeth regularly im helping the terrorists?
as I’ve said, hating bush isnt indicitive of someone character or lack thereof.
its simply indicitive of a persons intellect.
this moron deliberately fooks over anyone who disagrees with him, and through his incompetence and insincerity, he fooks
over his biblehumping supporters as well. thats why so many turned on him.
im sure there were alot of members of the KKK who are mourning the Right wing’s loss of congress….. so does it follow that anyone else who also mourns their loss of congress (as you presumably do) is the same moral character as Klansmen? wait.. don’t answer that
honestly, theres a reason the uneducated and ignorant are more likely to vote republican. its because people who actually think deeply enough to follow an ideas “logic” to its ultimate conclusion often discover reality’s dreaded liberal bias.
and no Roger, I dont want someone running this country who blindly lashes out at anyone who doesnt like us.
because:
a) there are only so many bullets in any gun. i intentionally included a firearm in this metaphor so a good ol hillbilly like yourself can understand it.
if we shoot at every person who flips us the bird, what are we going to do when someone else comes after us with a knife and we’re out of bullets?
oh no wait.. USA CAN DO ANYTHING! USA CAN CREATE A ROCK SO BIG IT CANT LIFT IT. USA IS INVINCIBLE> GO USA GO USA GO.
b) blindly lashing out creates new enemies. tell me roger, how many new enemies are we creating by filling the tv screens of the world with pictures of dead iraqi women and children killed by our bombs? I know feeebs like you CANT understand this concept, but if you create 3 new enemies for every one you kill, the only people on our side who wins are the blood merchants who sell the bombs. Yes, I hate to tell you this, but in the future there WILL BE some people who want to do as much damage as possible to us simply because our method of “protecting ourselves” is so misguided and indistriminate. I suspect your one of those “kill em all and let god sort em out” types, but thank god people like you are as rare as broken condoms, otherwise we’d still be in ‘Nam scraping our boys off bamboo instead of palm trees like we’re doing now..
How many of the iraqis killed since the war began were culpable for 9-11?
November 11th, 2006 at 10:01 amIf the case against Bush and Cheney was so ironclad, Pelosi wouldn’t even meet with Bush. That’s an indication that those of you insisting on a war crimes tribunal are insane. If the Democrats decide not to pursue impeachment, it is not because they don’t have a backbone. It is because they understand that it would be crazy.
November 11th, 2006 at 3:31 pm207 –
I used “Democrat” as a noun.
November 11th, 2006 at 9:10 pmComment by paul — November 10, 2006 @ 6:12 pm
First, as I acknowledged, I started with “an off-the-wall assumption.”
Second, to continue with that assumption, and reconcile it with the failure to find WMD’s in Iraq: it’s a matter of access. If the PNAC did contribute to the events of 9/11, there was approximately 8 months of access to the targeted buildings. Access to Iraq was somewhat more limited, due to the fact that a dictator who was not all that friendly with the Bush Administration was still in control of much of his country.
Third, I am as surprised as anyone that the votes turned out as they did. I honestly believed that they had the election rigged several months ago. But, that’s why I chose to do what shaman’s do; travel in other realms to affect this one. Perhaps that’s why they couldn’t pull an extra 10k votes out of their hats.
November 11th, 2006 at 9:22 pmClear the E ring? If you remember, prior to 911 (an inside job to sway the people into a illegal war with Iraq) Bush cleared a bunch of Generals from the pentagon. Will Gates now put THEM back or replace them with even worse scum?
November 12th, 2006 at 11:54 am