McCain Claims Iraq Will Be Won Or Lost In ‘Next Several Months,’ Admits Previous Prediction Was Wrong
McCain Claims Iraq Will Be Won Or Lost In ‘Next Several Months,’ Admits Previous Prediction Was Wrong
Today on NBC’s Meet the Press, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) again claimed this is a “critical time” in Iraq and that “we’re either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months.”
Host Tim Russert noted that on December 8, 2005, McCain had said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have a fair amount of progress [in Iraq] if we stay the course.” McCain admitted he has “proven not to be correct.” Watch it:
On March 23, 2003, McCain predicted, “I believe that this conflict is still going to be relatively short.” Today also wasn’t the first time McCain has claimed we’re at a “critical time’ in Iraq:
– “The terrorists know that this is a very critical time.” [6/4/04]
– Q: You agree this is a critical moment in Iraq?
MCCAIN: I agree it’s a critical time, yes. [8/20/06]– “I think that, first of all, things are very serious there. And to say otherwise I don’t think would be an accurate depiction of events, and this is a very critical time.” [10/19/06]
Full transcript:
MCCAIN: If you talk to most military experts, we’re in a critical and crucial time. We’re either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months.
RUSSERT: But senator, people are going to make a judgment about your judgment. Less than a year ago you were saying this: “Overall, I think a year from now” — that’s now — “we will have a fair amount of progress in Iraq if we stay the course.”
RUSSERT: That’s proven not to be correct.
MCCAIN: It’s proven not to be correct.
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71 Responses to “McCain Claims Iraq Will Be Won Or Lost In ‘Next Several Months,’ Admits Previous Prediction Was Wrong”
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War supporter keep repeating the mantra "the next few months" or "the next six months", as if holding on to a waning hope.
They should just admit to themselves that invading Iraq was a bad idea to begin with, that all their initial assumptions were wrong, and that they've been wrong in supporting an occupation that is unpopular at home, abroad, and specially in Iraq.
Life would be so much easier for everyone if they did.
November 12th, 2006 at 1:08 pmWho does he look like? oh oh it Mumbles from Dick Tracy!!!
November 12th, 2006 at 1:10 pmDid McCain get brain-damage in Vietnam? Apparently he never learned anything from that war and wants to commit the same mistakes in Iraq!
November 12th, 2006 at 1:15 pmSo, if he was wrong last time - then why are we supposed to believe that he is right this time?
Oh, okay, because you said so, Joe... Sorry, it doesn't work that way anymore.
November 12th, 2006 at 1:16 pmMaybe Thomas Friedman did the Vulcan mind-meld thing with McCain and it went awry and that part of Friedman's brain that was stuck in that endless "crucial next 6-months in Iraq" mantra of his was permanently imbedded in McCain's thoughts.
November 12th, 2006 at 1:24 pmEvery politician in DC who backs sending more troops to Iraq must either send their children to Iraq to die, or they must go themselves to that vile worthless hell-hole > no exceptions granted, so Bush twins go first!
November 12th, 2006 at 1:37 pmWhat makes him think his prediction this time will be correct . These people historical ignorance's of Iraq is what led to this monumental disaster . Bush and co.have largely contributed to the genie of war out of the bottle .It will take decades of blood to find peace again.
November 12th, 2006 at 1:38 pmFor the moment we must leave Iraq , not in 3 or 6 months but pronto , tout de suite and regroup and prepare ourselves for a different warfare.
I am 80 years old to day , i have seen and participated to too many wars .
I hope for my old bones rest in peace and Bush and co to find hell where ever that may be . ADIEU
From CNN:
"Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was considering a shake-up in his government on Sunday as Baghdad suffered through another day of carnage that left dozens dead. Two suicide bombers killed at least 35 Iraqis and wounded 60 more at the city's national police headquarters, while at least 14 more died in six other bombings."
November 12th, 2006 at 1:38 pmThey'd be more convincing if they just kept the short skirts and pom-poms.
November 12th, 2006 at 1:42 pmOn the upside, maybe it is a good idea the media keep inteviewing Republican war supporters like McCain.
They will keep reminding voters who got the US in the Iraqi mess in the first place and why.
Even the 30-something percenters have to get tired of the "the next few months" meme at some point
November 12th, 2006 at 1:48 pmHow many times can they all just keep saying the same thing, over and over and over and over and over and over and over ...
... and over and over and over and over and over ...
... and never be right?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!
(one look?! ONE LOOK?! I don't think so!)
November 12th, 2006 at 1:56 pmi have to agree with Bill Maher. All the neocon cultists and bloviating pro-war moonbats who have been nothing but consistently WRONG on all their predictions need to shut their trap and stop making predictions. NO ONE FINDS YOU CREDIBLE.
These fools are like spoiled narcissistic eight years old.
GO TO YOUR ROOM. SPEAK ONLY WHEN SPOKEN TO. YOU HAVE LEFT A TERRIBLE MESS FOR US TO CLEAN UP. NOW GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!
November 12th, 2006 at 1:59 pmWar criminal Bush has been trying to terrorize the Iraqi people for the last three and a half years into accepting a Bush-run puppet regime that will allow US corporations to steal Iraq's oil and run its economy. So far, the Iraqi people are not going along with this imperial colonial gag...
U. S. out of Iraq now.
Cheers.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:00 pmHow many "critical times" do they get? It's getting harder to keep score.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:01 pmCharles
3 more months.....the next 3 months are critical, three months pass.....really the NEXT three months are what is very important.....three months pass...........from what we have seen the next three months are pivotal in determining the outcome.........three months pass, ELECTIONS OCCUR, AMERICA HAS SPOKEN.......we acknowledge that in the next three months will be a telling time........
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
These bafoons are an enemy to the American people. They are utterly and hopelessly lost. All the while we pull our hair out, tear at eachothers patriotism, implode as a people of laws and civility KNOW ONE RESOLUTE FACT, THIS WAS ALL THE DOING OF BUSH.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:04 pmIt's like the "end times" people--some day they will be right. About 4.5 billion years from now.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:16 pmIn other news:
McCain edges toward '08 presidential run
By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer 57 minutes ago
I can already see the ticket:
November 12th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Remember Tom Friedman kept saying "the next 6 months" for years.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:19 pmMcCain repeats "this is a critical time" for years.
Yogi Berra said "De ja vu, all over again."
[...] McCain says “we’re either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months.” [...]
November 12th, 2006 at 2:22 pmMcCain is finished once Dems run the clips. People probably don't remember him speaking at Bob Jones Univ but once we run the video, McCain is finished. I wish McCain gets the nomination though because he will be easily defeated.
Can you trust McCain ? The answer is NO and he is well-done.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:27 pmSorry John, but when you kept towing the Cheney and Bush lines (lies) and towing thier water, as well as the water for the now discredited "moral majority", you lost the right to use that "Maveric" title.
You are one of the Neocon clowns that the American people rose up and spoke against when we the people spoke against with our votes last Tuesday.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:36 pmMcCain has proved himself to not only be a complete political whore but also a lying and devious sack of shit. Only a fool would take this person seriously.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:38 pmFriedmania (n.): the inability to recognize that guessing wrong all the time isn't grounds for changing your mind. See Insanity (n.): doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome.
November 12th, 2006 at 2:46 pmOBVIOUSLY THEY ARE WAITING TILL THERE ARE NO MALES AGED BETWEEN 30 and 45 LEFT ..............Thats how they plan to win
Anybody watch the Channel 4 documentary how the american support the Militias of the Internal ministry by supporting them rounding up busloads of Sunnis and executing them ??? Ba**tards
November 12th, 2006 at 2:50 pm4 british soldiers just killed in Basra in a boat
November 12th, 2006 at 2:52 pmIf Bush is interested in true bi-partisanship, here's a deal: no investigations into the administration's uses of pre-war intelligence, in exchange for a credible plan to bring the troops home. It's a win for all concerned - and doesn't let him slip responsibility for other possibly impeachable offenses, like unwarranted wire-tapping.
November 12th, 2006 at 3:05 pmThreat to Blair as Democrats pledge inquiry on Iraq
Tony Blair, who narrowly defeated a recent parliamentary attempt to call an inquiry into the Iraq war, is facing a new threat from Washington, where victorious Democrats are expected to call British witnesses as they launch congressional investigations into the war.
"Now we are the majority party and we can hold hearings," said a senior member of the staff of John Conyers, who in January will become chair of the House Judiciary Committee. "We can hold any number of hearings."
Democratic Senators are also expected to seek hearings aimed at throwing light on how Downing Street and the White House co-ordinated efforts to claim that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction. All the claims that led to war, from allegations that Saddam was reconstituting a nuclear weapons programme to his alleged links with al-Qa'ida, could come under examination. Unlike their counterparts in Britain, congressional committees have the crucial power to subpoena witnesses and documents.
November 12th, 2006 at 3:05 pmThe obvious answer to that is, if you were so wrong then, why should we believe you now.
November 12th, 2006 at 3:08 pmSomeone create a video montage of all of McCain's "critical times" and get it up on YouTube quick...Put him on the defensive quickly...It can be the first ad of the 2008 election....
November 12th, 2006 at 3:08 pm-
Rule #1; the war was lost the day we started it.
November 12th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
BTW, IRAQ WAS NEVER "OURS' TO LOSE, WE DO NOT OWN IT. IRAQ FOR THE IRAQIS. YANKEE GO HOME!
November 12th, 2006 at 3:27 pm1. McCain is a selfserving politician.
2. He is deluded, and I feel sorry that he has kids in the military, who may at best come back broken in mind and body, if at all.
3. Why can't he admit that the reason he voted for the invasion of Iraq was that he couldn't believe that the president would LIE about WMD??
November 12th, 2006 at 3:28 pm'The next six months' will only be critical to the people who die and their families...
November 12th, 2006 at 3:34 pmthis is a very, very critical time for the losers lunatic brigrade led by like mccain and lieberman to once again prove themleves to be complete idiotic asses.
November 12th, 2006 at 3:46 pm.
What is critical is the health of McCain brains.
November 12th, 2006 at 3:48 pmThat DAMN John McCain - ACTUALLY admitting his crystal ball was oblique and his prediction was WRONG. (How unlike the false contrition of John Kerry - "I'm sorry-----if you were offended ....and took what I said wrong. I, however, am NEVER wrong.") I suppose Progs whine (and write internet articles) when someone admits they are wrong as this phenomena IS strange to progressives.....
Have you noticed how much more blue the sky is since last Tuesday? Isn't the air fresher? More birds singing?
Happy Sunday, Progs and Progettes...
November 12th, 2006 at 4:41 pm[...] Senator John McCain (R-Arizona) doing his best Thomas Friedman impersonation. From Think Progress: Today on NBC’s Meet the Press, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) again claimed this is a “critical time” in Iraq and that “we’re either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months.” [...]
November 12th, 2006 at 5:08 pmMA: John Kerry should have said "I am deeply sorry that my words were deliberately misinterpreted to pretend that I said something disparaging of my fellow members of the armed services. I apologize on behalf of the President, Karl Rove, Ken Mehlman, and others who would think you so gullible as to think that I think that you are not intelligent." There is no question Kerry was not even talking about the troops.
But congratulations on your troll piece. Now you can go pee-pee.
November 12th, 2006 at 5:08 pmHopefully by now, all of you DO understand that this is the game...to claim that right after the NEXT milestone, we'll be able to bring the troops home.
It's all an evil ploy.
They've invested billions in permanant bases and an embassy, to say nothing of their intention to occupy Iraq forever.
Don't believe a SINGLE WORD.
If they never do admit that their original plan was to stay forever, and that they have changed their plan, then rest assured, you can't trust a word they say.
November 12th, 2006 at 5:19 pmEveryday is like that when you don't have your head firmply planted up your rectum MA, you should try it you wretched earth hater!
November 12th, 2006 at 5:30 pmMighty Moron; you still have not answered just who were "our friends and allies who did not desert us during our civil war."
November 12th, 2006 at 5:30 pm
Flip Flop Flip!
And that would be pretty much BEFORE the dems take control!!
Bwhahahhahahaaaaaa!!!
[adding this tidbit to troll-o-dex]
November 12th, 2006 at 5:32 pmBetter!
November 12th, 2006 at 5:38 pm#40 - "I am deeply sorry that my words were deliberately misinterpreted..."
Another lame attempt to be humourous by John Kerry - er...Y & L
********Dear Yahtzee - - Stop spinning already. The whirlpool you're creating will swallow your yacht. You remind me of the idiot pundits who tell me what I just heard while listening to a speech - I don't need your reflexive translation, thank you!
I heard what the disgraceful example of a veteran said on behalf of the Angelides campaign - His words were not deliberately misinterpreted - perhaps they were ignorantly delivered. Enough already....
November 12th, 2006 at 5:40 pmMOOT POINT!!
JAJAJAJAJAAA!!!
November 12th, 2006 at 5:42 pmLike the bubble boy bush butchers his buttheaded babbling?
Jajajajaaaaa!!
Great Point!!
November 12th, 2006 at 5:44 pmRelative? Relative to geologic time?
November 12th, 2006 at 6:41 pmMcCain is also a coward. John Kerry defended him in 2000 when Rove and his thugs attacked McCain in SC but McCain never returned the favor in 2004 when Rove did the same dirty tricks on Kerry. McCain is truely a coward.
Oh man you remember the McCain and Bush embrace during the 2004 campaign? It shows his true character.
November 12th, 2006 at 7:11 pmHe also said:
Hey! Clueless! You permanently lost that trust when you flipped and caved in on the issue of torture. I will work non-stop to prevent this creep from ever becoming president.
November 12th, 2006 at 7:14 pm[...] Here’s McCain today: [...]
November 12th, 2006 at 7:18 pm9/11 + Iraq = Bush's Islamic Republic
Iraq: Bush's Islamic Republic
By Peter W. Galbraith
NYRB, Volume 52, Number 13 · August 11, 2005
[snip]
Real power in Shiite Iraq rests, however, with two religious parties: Abdel Aziz al-Hakim's Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and the Dawa ("Call," in English) of Iraq's Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari. Of the two, SCIRI is the more pro-Iranian. Both parties have military wings, and SCIRI's Badr Corps has grown significantly from the five thousand fighters that harassed Saddam's regime from Iran in the decades before the war; it now works closely with Iraq's Shiite interior minister, until recently the corps' commander, to provide security and fight Sunni Arab insurgents.
SCIRI and Dawa want Iraq to be an Islamic state. They propose to make Islam the principal source of law, which most immediately would affect the status of women. For Muslim women, religious law—rather than Iraq's relatively progressive civil code—would govern personal status, including matters relating to marriage, divorce, property, and child custody. A Dawa draft for the Iraqi constitution would limit religious freedom for non-Muslims, and apparently deny such freedom altogether to peoples not "of the book," such as the Yezidis (a significant minority in Kurdistan), Zoroastrians, and Bahais.
This program is not just theoretical. Since Saddam's fall, Shiite religious parties have had de facto control over Iraq's southern cities. There Iranian-style religious police enforce a conservative Islamic code, including dress codes and bans on alcohol and other non-Islamic behavior. In most cases, the religious authorities govern—and legislate—without authority from Baghdad, and certainly without any reference to the freedoms incorporated in Iraq's American-written interim constitution—the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL).
Dawa and SCIRI are not just promoting an Iranian-style political system —they are also directly promoting Iranian interests. Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, the SCIRI leader, has advocated paying Iran billions in reparations for damage done in the Iran–Iraq war, even as the Bush administration has been working to win forgiveness for Iraq's Saddam-era debt. Iraq's Shiite oil minister is promoting construction of an export pipeline for petroleum from Basra to the Iranian port city of Abadan, creating an economic and strategic link between the two historic adversaries that would have been unthinkable until now. Iraq's Shiite government has acknowledged Iraq's responsibility for starting the Iran–Iraq war, and apologized. It is an acknowledgment probably justified by the historical record, but one that has infuriated Iraq's Sunni Arabs.
November 12th, 2006 at 7:41 pmbetween 2006 and 2025.
November 12th, 2006 at 8:01 pmI'm sorry Senator, relatively short is absolutely absurd. As of 11/10/06, our involment in Iraq has now lasted longer than our involvement in WWII, and I cannot think of anybody credible who believes that that was "relatively short".
Now that you have proven yourself to be an empty suit, would you please step away from the camera.
November 12th, 2006 at 8:05 pmBefore 11/7 they Republicans had no one to blame so we were always winning. Now they have someone else they can try to place blame on, so guess the f**k what, Iraq is suddenly hanging in the balance between peace and civil war.
Sheesh the man is 70 can't he come up with something a bit more adult to say about Iraq instead of making childish excuses.
November 12th, 2006 at 8:07 pmThe average crack whore has more integrity than John McCain.
The entire senior civilian leadership of the Bush Administration, to include those no longer in office such as Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, Bremer, Perle, etc.; should be prosecuted for war crimes and subversion. Senior military officers who knowingly participated in their crimes are a discredit to the profession of arms and belong in front of a firing squad.
M. Pebler
November 12th, 2006 at 11:44 pmSFC, U.S. Army (Retired)
With enough Friedmans, anything is possible.
November 13th, 2006 at 2:03 amA good and accurate comparison. I don't see how anyone with half an ounce of common sense or decency can support John McCain, and yet, there are even those who call themselves "liberals" who do. It scares me to think of this psychotic jerk being elected President, but I can envision it happening.
November 13th, 2006 at 6:50 amre: #38 Psychopathic NeoCon Holocaust inspires whining and need for fresh air
More than 650,000 people have died in Iraq since the U.S. led invasion of the country began in March of 2003. This is according to a new study published in the scientific journal, The Lancet.
"I suppose Progs whine..." Comment by mighty aphrodite — November 12, 2006 @ 4:41 pm
RADIATION detectors in Britain recorded a fourfold increase in uranium levels in the atmosphere after the “shock and awe†bombing campaign against Iraq, according to a report.
"Have you noticed how much more blue the sky is since last Tuesday? Isn’t the air fresher? More birds singing?" Comment by mighty aphrodite — November 12, 2006 @ 4:41 pm
Definitions of a Psychopath:
"an individual with no superego or conscience; because of this deficit, the person often engages in extensive antisocial behavior."
"Psychopaths are manipulative, charming, glib, deceptive, parasitic, irresponsible, selfish, callous, promiscuous, impulsive, antisocial, and aggressive individuals who have no concern for the welfare of others, experience little remorse or guilt as a result of their injurious and antisocial behavior, do not tolerate delay of gratification..."
November 13th, 2006 at 6:53 amAccording to Washington insiders, there are moves afoot to dump Vice President Dick Cheney and replace him with either John McCain or Rudolph Giuliani prior to the 2008 presidential election. Whoever succeeds Cheney will be able to campaign for the presidency with the perks that come with being an incumbent Vice President.
Since the increasingly-besieged Cheney has signaled he has no intention of voluntarily stepping down, the strategy by the Bush camp may be to force him out by presenting evidence before Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald that it was Cheney who was responsible for the compromise of CIA non-proliferation covert officer Valerie Plame Wilson and her Brewster Jennings & Associates cover firm.
Observers note the unusual professional relationship between Fitzgerald and Karl Rove's defense attorney Robert Luskin. Insiders believe that Fitzgerald may be proffered a carefully crafted deal by Luskin whereby Rove will testify to Cheney's primary role in the outing of Mrs. Wilson and her firm. The sealed indictment of Rove will then be retired permanently. If such a deal is worked out, Fitzgerald may then offer a deal to Lewis I. "Scooter" Libby, Cheney's former Chief of Staff, to also testify against Cheney. With such double-barreled testimony, President Bush will then be compelled to ask Cheney for his resignation or face a very nasty and public indictment.
November 13th, 2006 at 7:26 amMcCain is setting it up to lay the blame for this disaster in the middle east at the democrats feet. The republicans will do everything they can to spin the blame for this debacle on the democrats.
This is just the beginning.
November 13th, 2006 at 9:13 amThey will say they were going to send in more troops. If only the American people were more patient we would have won in Iraq. yada yada yada
I'd sure like to see McCain say that if he's wrong on this, he won't run for office in 08.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:05 amTell me why anyone would give McCain the time of day. he plays both sides and does his best to trick the ones on the Dem side and then jump back to the Republican side. He actually supported torture...wow. Get rid of this guy next, i hate two faced people. stand for something, mccain. he needs a backbone transplant
November 13th, 2006 at 10:38 amLet me try to get a picture of what McCain is seeing?
Some people are lied to by a group of "important People" about how terribly dangerous a particular other man is. The people give chase and attack that other man. But to the attackers surprise the man fighting for his life gives them a good fight. Another group of People have pointed out all along that the man was being attacked under false pretences that were originally concocted by the group that lied to the attackers. One of the original that supported the attack on the man now is saying we must fight harder because we can win the fight.
How is it possible to win an unjustified criminal attack on another person (or Country). Win or lose the actual battle you are still just a bunch of criminals and thugs! You certainly will not be harolded as winners by any but other thugs and criminals.
If you want a society operated on bar room morality just remember "You don't mess around with Slim."
November 13th, 2006 at 12:55 pmBlair: we can work with Iran
PM to set out terms for cooperation with Iran and Syria as part of new Iraq approach.
This is the new TRICK...... failed from the start and an excuse to invade IRAN .......... be warned
November 13th, 2006 at 3:14 pmbut bush had previously called mccain "crazy" ,from his days as a pow. surely bush would not lie about this man.
November 13th, 2006 at 7:45 pmhey, wait a minute--let me say this again....shouldn't this man be on suicide watch already? Didn't he say just last week that if Dems won he would kill himself? Can a crazy man with a death wish be elected?
November 14th, 2006 at 7:20 am[...] 11/30/06 Zalmay Khalilzad sez Maliki has a window of a couple of months.11/18/06 Joe Klein says we should give Iraq “One last shot.” Time ambiguous, so I gave him a Friedman.11/19/06 Lee Hamilton says next 3 months are critical.12/31/06 Joe Lieberman says significant troop withdrawals begin.1/06/07 Senator Warner sez “In two or three months if this thing hasn’t come to fruition and this level of violence is not under control,” Warner said, “I think it’s a responsibility of our government to determine: Is there a change of course we should take?”03/05/07 General George Casey says “This is a decisive period for everyone and everyone knows it. The next six months will determine the future of Iraq>”05/20/07 Obama says reduction should start in 4 to 6 months.05/26/07 Cornyn says we need another 4 to 6 months to get this right.05/26/07 McCaffrey says the next 4 to 6 months are crucial.06/12/07 McCain sez we’re going to win or lose this thing within the next several months.12/31/07 Joe Lieberman says half the troops will likely be home, with full withdrawal possible. [...]
November 26th, 2006 at 11:04 pmRUSSERT: But senator, people are going to make a judgment about your judgment. Less than a year ago you were saying this: “Overall, I think a year from now†— that’s now — “we will have a fair amount of progress in Iraq if we stay the course.â€
RUSSERT: That’s proven not to be correct.
i don't exactly remember being told WHAT the course is...other than sending combat trained machines for fighting terrorists to Iraq to just end up blown up by a roadside bomb, something you really cant train for too well...
November 30th, 2006 at 11:08 pmWho comes first, America or Iraq?
if we left now, political instability in Iraq would be definite, yet there comes a time where we have to choose our GI's lives or the instability of Iraq. call me heartless, but i care a little bit more for my military than i do whether peace in Iraq comes at all. sorry.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:21 pm[...] Think Progress has more: On March 23, 2003, McCain predicted, “I believe that this conflict is still going to be relatively short.” Today also wasn’t the first time McCain has claimed we’re at a “critical time’ in Iraq: – “The terrorists know that this is a very critical time.” [6/4/04] [...]
December 12th, 2006 at 12:51 pm[...] “We’re either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months.” - John McCain, November 12, 2006 [...]
April 10th, 2008 at 6:26 pm