In Vietnam, Bush Repeats Kissinger: ‘We’ll Succeed Unless We Quit’
In Vietnam, Bush Repeats Kissinger: ‘We’ll Succeed Unless We Quit’
Today, during his first visit to Vietnam, President Bush was “asked about the war here over three decades ago and the comparisons to the war in Iraq today.” Bush said there was a comparison: As in Vietnam, “We’ll succeed unless we quit.” Watch it:
Bush’s remarks virtually mirror those made by former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. As Bob Woodward detailed in his book State of Denial, Kissinger is a frequent advisor to President Bush and has delivered the message to top administration officials that “victory over the insurgency is the only meaningful exit strategy”:
Kissinger sensed wobbliness everywhere on Iraq, and he increasingly saw it through the prism of the Vietnam War. For Kissinger, the overriding lesson of Vietnam is to stick it out.
In his writing, speeches and private comments, Kissinger claimed that the United States had essentially won the war in 1972, only to lose it because of the weakened resolve of the public and Congress.
In a column in The Washington Post on Aug. 12, 2005, titled “Lessons for an Exit Strategy,” Kissinger wrote, “Victory over the insurgency is the only meaningful exit strategy.”
He delivered the same message directly to Bush, Cheney and Hadley at the White House.
Victory had to be the goal, he told all. Don’t let it happen again. Don’t give an inch, or else the media, the Congress and the American culture of avoiding hardship will walk you back.
The lesson from Vietnam is exactly the opposite of what Bush suggested. In fact, we can succeed by leaving. Bush acknowledged as much, stating Vietnam has show progress in recent years. Vietnam’s recovery demonstrates that a U.S. withdrawal does not doom a country to civil strife. America’s venture in Vietnam failed not because we left too soon, but because we left too late.
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82 Responses to “In Vietnam, Bush Repeats Kissinger: ‘We’ll Succeed Unless We Quit’”
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HAHA,
Vietnam is a communist country. That means that since we pulled out to early, these people are now doomed to lives without democracy and freedom. The same will hold true for Iraq. Of course I really don't need to argue this with you since your Dem leaders won't actually pull out of Iraq. They'll pay it lip service, but they know that it is a bad idea like most people. Iraq was a mistake but leaving now would be an even worse mistake.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:29 pm....via Froomkin:
Julie Mason blogs for the Houston Chronicle that this joke is in circulation:
Q: How is Vietnam different from Iraq?
A: Bush had a plan for getting out of Vietnam.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:30 pmWhen Henry K. says we were winning in 1972 but lost only because of public pressure, he knows better. We were not doing that well as Nixon was seeking an exit strategy even well before 1972. OK, Henry K. lies now like he lied in Oct. 1972 ("peace is at hand"). So what is Bush's excuse for basically saying to his hosts that we should have continued that war against them? I guess Bush is determined any foreign policy credibility this nation ever had before he leaves office.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:31 pmVietnam is a communist country...
November 17th, 2006 at 12:36 pmComment by Roger_Roger — November 17, 2006 @ 12:29 pm
followed by this:
The same will hold true for Iraq.
History was never your strong point, was it Roger_Roger?
A little hint for you, Roger (deux): Iraq is a democracy, and will be when we finally leave (whether today or a decade from now)
Sorry...he should have waited another two decades before making such an insane remark to those of us who "experienced" it....I think he's totally lost it now. He hid out in the Reserves rather than go to Vietnam and now he's in Vietnam to get out of Washington. Is the heat really that bad?
This futile attempt to rewrite history only makes him appear more out of touch with reality. He's becoming more toxic to his constituents....when his lameduck-ness rears it's ugly head, he'll be a total pariah to his party.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:39 pm“Victory over the insurgency is the only meaningful exit strategy.â€
Military offices all over the world must be laughing. Hows victory a strategy?
November 17th, 2006 at 12:39 pmRoger_Roger....hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Submerge yourself in a good history book for openers...
November 17th, 2006 at 12:39 pmThe hypocrisy of this president attempting to validate staying in Iraq to that of Vietnam is simply breathtaking as well as appalling. Bush's family and friends did everything they could to make sure that Bush would never go, much less stay, in Vietnam yet here we have Bush advising America and the world that the U.S. will never leave Iraq until "the job" is done, whatever that nebulous job may be. Bush seems quite content to advocate staying and fighting in a war as long as it is not he and his children who have to end up fighting in those wars. I have not seen or heard the Democrats express outrage over Bush's words. They had better speak out long and loud concerning Bush's desire to keep this country bogged down in another Vietnam.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:41 pmWe entered the VietNam conflict to counter China's growing sphere of influence in SE Asia. Our fear of the Red Menace seems to me similar of the fear of Radical Islam, the excuse de jour for attacking Iraq.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:44 pmOur failure to prevent the North from taking over South Vietnam had much more to do with the mishandling and failed strategies of LBJ and Nixon than anything else. We underestimated the Cong and the NVA repeatedly. We would have needed many more than the half million troops to invade, defeat and occupy the North. And that was the only way to "win" the war.
Of course the Chinese threatened a Korea style response if we attempted that, so it was never on the table.
There are so many comparisons, and so many contrasts.
Oh the sad irony. Think Chimpy will visit Iraq in 30 years? In order to stay in Iraq and defeat the "insurgency" (whatever that is) we would have to reinstate the draft and be there for another 10+ years. Does he really think that the US public would be for that? Does he really think the US economy could last through that? Does he really think the Iraqis (who are the people that are killing US troops aka. the insurgency) will stand for us being in their coountry for that amount of time? This idiot needs a clue.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:49 pmThis is typical Bush, reciting some of Sec. Kissingers Viet Nam talking points. Obviously Bush forgot that we lost Viet Nam after Kissinger and the others claimed they could see the light at the end of the tunnel. Oh, that's right, Bush was too coward to go to Viet Nam, and the light they saw was an oncoming train.
So when they start seeing in tunnels you can believe it's a train wreck waiting to happen.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:53 pmThe only way these mass murdering terrorists can win is if they're able to some how seize control of Iraq's oil. These Christian terrorists would need to slaughter every last brown person who worships the "wrong" gods in the entire region in order to "win."
God damned religious f*cking terrorists!
November 17th, 2006 at 12:55 pmThis type of comment plays well with the republican faithful. Rush and the other windbags have spent the last 30 years blaming the left for the loss in Vietnam. So sure the comment comes across as sounding idiotic to many, but it is meant for rapid right. They will cheer up, because thier leader has said this, and they believe him to be infallible.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:57 pmW is so stupid, it is a scientific mystery as to how he remembers to breathe.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:58 pmBushiva is condemning more Iraqis and American service personnel to death and maiming...
...when as a young man he refused to fight for his country, instead showing his cowardice and arrogance...
...by drinking and gay sexing his way through the Vietnam era...
...yet the TREASONOUSLY faithful 31% still worship him...
...they still give their souls and those of their sons, daughters, husbands and wives to this DEMON!
...these are your family members...
...your friends, co-workers and neighbors...
...may the hell that the Iraqi people suffer daily touch the lives of EVERY mass murdering Bush-loving inbred, corksucker in America (and their gods Bushiva and L'il Dick)...
November 17th, 2006 at 1:01 pmMonkey see , monkey do
November 17th, 2006 at 1:03 pmSo he goes to Vietnam to reveal his secret plan for victory. Makes about as much sense as everything else he does.
Here we have it in a nutshell. Our strategy: “We’ll succeed unless we quit.â€
Make no plans to quit (end the war). Prolong the war to postpone failure (it'll be someone else's in 2009).
It's not enough to refuse to follow this madman. How can he be stopped?
November 17th, 2006 at 1:10 pm#2 = GREAT!
This Country is run by mentally ill people. They are either on drugs, are pedophiles, or hypocrites = beguilers, cheaters, deceivers, tricksters, slickers, cheats.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:11 pmAnother one:
November 17th, 2006 at 1:14 pmVietnam = Communist
Cuba = Communist
Vietnam = $$$
Cuba = Embargo
Administration = Trial + Jail
He finally said it. ... True believers, you thought it ended back in the day with the Nam episode, #49. But no. There's a new underroo-wearing dude on the block proving those 60's baddies wrong. Now, Kulture Warrior Komix presents, episode #72: "Enter THE DECIDER."
November 17th, 2006 at 1:16 pmtreason, impeach.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:19 pmStupid is as stupid does.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:20 pm#18
November 17th, 2006 at 1:25 pmHow did THEY stop the Kennedys?
#8
I have always said it was wrong to invade Iraq. I have also said that it would be even worse to leave now. We made the mess, we need to clean it up.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:28 pmWe made the mess, we need to clean it up.
Comment by Roger_Roger
You broke it you bought, right Rogerx2? Well, it's 3 1/2 years after we broke the f*cker, Rog, the shopkeeper wants us to get the hell out of there.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:44 pm#27,
It is funny how you guys and gals support the Dems so much even though they only pay you lip service. They run campaigns against the war and so forth, but still fail to do a thing about it. Do you honestly think they will vote to cut the money or the troop levels? Hell no they won't and thank God. Either way, who is looking out for your point of view? Are you satisfied that your leaders only say things you want to hear, yet don't actually do what they say? The conservatives got fed up with lying Repugs that spent to much and voted them out. Are you prepared to do the same thing in 2 years. We all know we will still be in Iraq and that means we will be in Iraq for the next 2 years until Dem control and supervision. These are the people that paid you lip service for your vote yet now fully support the direction of the Iraq war. It just strikes me as "off".
November 17th, 2006 at 1:54 pmWell of course Monkey Oil Jr. would know what he was talking about in Vietnam - he was protecting Alabama from the Vietcong back in the day! What an expert. My 4 year old nephew could beat the tar outta Bush in a simple game of Risk for Chrissakes!
November 17th, 2006 at 1:57 pmTalking to yourself is a sign of mental collapsation 27.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:58 pmIt is funny how you guys and gals support the Dems so much even though they only pay you lip service. They run campaigns against the war and so forth, but still fail to do a thing about it.
Comment by Roger_Roger
You do realize that the Congress changes at the end of the year don't you? And if theyt don't do anything about in the next two years I think that most here would be calling for changes to be made. The incumbents still have to win primaries.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:03 pmIt just strikes me as “offâ€.
Comment by Roger_Roger
I'm going to assume you were responding to me, Rogerx2.
Can you say PROJECTION?
November 17th, 2006 at 2:03 pmBut we had a military victory,because Saddam's government and army no longer exist...that makes it even harder with the collapse of Saddam's regime...because now there is no group fighting us now in Iraq that either can talk to us, or we can talk to them. Right after the defeat of Japan..a surrendering ceremony closed the war chapter,the same with Germany. Here in Iraq and Afghanstan, there is nobody that Bush can sign anything with,or even willing to talk to. So the war will go on...and the shadow of victory and the 'Mission Accomplished' banner that was displayed to the public in the early stages of war is no longer meaningful or can bear fruits...the people we fight are underground groups and an invisible ones. Winning against Saddam created more of these groups on both sides (Shiate & Sunnis) that are now fighting us while also fighting each others. So, when Bush and his shadow mentor talk about 'Victory',there is nothing really both of them can put their hand on at the moment that can be called victory,and there is no sign that there is one coming very soon.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:12 pm#33
I am not a Bush Whore. I have always said Iraq was wrong. We just dissagree on if we should leave or not. I simply think that leaving now would cause the problem to escalate and potentially hurt the entire Middle East. We broke it, we fix it. I am also against the fact that Bush has signed all these spending bills. He has approved more spending then even Dems have. These things upset me greatly. In the end, I still can't vote BUsh out of office because HE ISN'T RUNNING. My main issue against the Dems is the fact that are generally the party that likes to have bigger government. Hell, I already hear Pelosi talk about Social Secuirty even though it cost this country a little over $3 TRILLION a year in debt. That is alot more then the entire cost of the Iraq war by the way. If you want to talk about "costs" lets talk about the debt Social Secuirty alone cost us each year. $3 trillion extra in debt just from Social Secuirty is in fact killing this country.
Check this report out for more info:
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20060803/1a_coverart03.art_dom.htm
November 17th, 2006 at 2:25 pmRoger_Roger writes: "I have always said it was wrong to invade Iraq."
A lie.
All you have to do to prove that you are not lying is to provide a link to a comment you made prior to the invasion expressing the belief that it is wrong to invade Iraq, and you have not done so.
Will you do so now please?
Right, why'd I ask.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:33 pmI said that Iraq was wrong. I thought it was the right thing to do when I believed just like most Repugs and most Dems including Kerry that Iraq had WMD's. Once we learned that intel was false, I changed and now think the invasion was wrong. That isn't to say that we should leave however. That would be even a larger mistake.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:44 pm#38
It isn't about violence levels. It is about making Iraq a place that is a democracy and can protect itself. Currently, that isn't the case. Once it is, our job is done and we can leave.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:44 pm"The lesson from Vietnam is exactly the opposite of what Bush suggested. In fact, we can succeed by leaving." - - Nico
*******"In fact. we can succeed by running, hiding and pulling the covers over us." Progs never wanted Saddam removed. Forget President Clinton's 1998 Plan to Remove Saddam, forget his violation of the Cease-Fire.
Seriously, if it is impossible for a collaborative government to succeed in Iraq (with the entrenched tribal/ethnic hatreds) Senator Biden's idea of a three state partition might be a viable solution. The real trick will be keeping the filthy fingers of Iran out of it.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:58 pm[...] Watch Video [...]
November 17th, 2006 at 3:15 pmYeah, #20, I never thought of that one.
BTW, here's another gem from Bush:
WTF does that mean in the context of Vietnam?
Does he mean that it took the Vietnamese a long time to trump our hatred? Nice one, Bush.
November 17th, 2006 at 3:28 pmThe similarity with Vietnam is simple to understand...we are losing and will one day soon suffer the indignity of having to leave like we left Saigon.
Better to leave now with our pride intact!
November 17th, 2006 at 3:36 pmMonkey see , monkey do
Comment by Grey Eagle
Seems more like Monkey pee, monkey poo.
November 17th, 2006 at 3:53 pm"That same logic would dictate that if you came upon a rape in progress that you should wait until the rapist is “finished†before doing anything to stop it. " comment by humanist
*******humanist - Thankfully, you have just proved that you are not an acedemic elite! Whew!! I always suspected you were one sick BA$^@RD but this is SO sick it borders on the indefensible. While you do not believe the removal of Saddam was a correct course of action - THAT is your opinion. Their is NEVER any defense for a rape to occur - THAT is not opinion - THAT is FACT. I can't read through any more of your twisted garbage....
November 17th, 2006 at 3:54 pmdid mighty just post something?
November 17th, 2006 at 3:58 pmMighty Aphrodite correctly pointed out how sick and venemous poor "Humanist" is....
November 17th, 2006 at 4:06 pm#57-mighty aphrodite,
So, regime change was the primary reason for the invasion of Iraq? Is that what the american people were told? Is that what the world was told? We all know the answers to those questions.
And your attempts to twist what I said to fit your agenda are laughable. I agree that rape is NEVER justified. That was the point that I made very clearly and your feeble attempt at selectively pulling one sentence out of context to skew it meaning is silly and immature. Unlike you, though, I practice what I preach. The Iraqi crusade is just as horrific a crime as that of rape and unfortunately is made even more heinous by the magnitude, both in severity and number, of the crime.
The crime of the Iraq crusade has been exposed. The devastation of the crime (600,000 plus murdered Iraqis, rapes, torture, theft, etc...) is public knowledge as well. Yet the course that the warmongers present as the ONLY option is to continue the crime until it's finished. Your attempt to defend your asinine position by attacking me with slander and name calling is indicative of how weak and wrong you know your position to be.
Stop the rape, mighty aphrodite, don't just cheer on the rapist to hurry up and finish so that you can begin the process of blaming the victim.
Peace.
November 17th, 2006 at 4:18 pm#59-michael,
Please elaborate on your slanderous accusations. Specific examples only, of course.
Obviously my message's truth struck quite a nerve since the only responses have been personal attacks. I am curious as to why it appeared and disappeared from the comments and, since it contained no profanity or threatening language or personal attacks, why the editorial staff at TP were compelled to remove it.
Peace.
November 17th, 2006 at 4:25 pm#60
Because of a few bad apples in the armed forces you call them all rapists? At least you come right out in the open and proclaim that you hate the american armed forces. Also, do you truly believe that if we pulled out, Iraq would become a Democracy that could defend itself? If so, how?
November 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI also think you guys should lay off the attacks and focus on helping the poor and needy more. You talk about it so much, yet it is a fact that the right-wing conservatives donate much more then the left does. Odd but true:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20419_1.html
November 17th, 2006 at 4:40 pmHumanist - My initial response was correct - Your attempt to equate YOUR opinion of the Iraq War with rape - which is NEVER justified was intellectually dishonest hyperbole.
Why your comment "disappeared"?? MY guess is that the moderators here at Think Progress found your Iraq War/rape comparison so ugly and incredulous as to embarrass the progressive community....
November 17th, 2006 at 4:41 pmroger_roger,
I did not say, or imply, that all service-members are rapist. It is sad that your simplistic mind would see it that way, but that's your problem not mine.
Both you and mighty aphrodite are doing all you can to avoid addressing the point that I made because of its validity. The Iraq crusade is a crime. It has been publicly identified and acknowledged. Your solution is to allow the crime to continue until it is finished. That is a monumentally vile and absurd position and is akin to cheering a rapist on to hurry up and finish so that you can start the process of blaming the victim. Now, explain how that is NOT the case.
And since I am a veteran of military service I can say that I am appalled at your continued twisted exploitation of military members and their service for the purpose of trying to validate your position. Yours are the acts of deceitful cowards and your attempt to cloak yourself in the honor of others is pathetic. I am but a thread in that cloak and I know that my brothers and sisters who make up the multitude of other threads in that cloak agree that attempted theft and abuse of that cloak is not sanctioned or appreciated by us.
Now, stop the rape (Iraq crusade) and quit cheering the rapist (your government and its administration) on to hurry up and finish (achieve victory) so that you can start blaming the victim (the Iraqis).
Clear enough for you? I would hope so.
May peace be with us all.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:09 pmSo the Kissingerian solution is to simply crush the Iraqi insurgency, which for all intents will involve laying the nation to complete waste, not unlike Vietnam. Clearly, our mistake in Vietnam was that after laying the nation to complete waste, we didn't finish the job and waste it even further.
Given current rates of 'progress' toward that end in Iraq, we can project, what, about 50 years or so necessary to achieve 'complete waste'?
I'm good with that. Why not? We probably won't have any other pressing issues that come up in that time, which will end before you know it.
One modest suggestion: We should begin a program of either forced sterilization of all Iraqi women of child-bearing age, or a program where the US captures and inters all Iraqi males at birth.
It might not make the 50 year war end sooner, but it will damn well ensure it ends---assuming we contain all immigration into Iraq.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:25 pm#65
We could certainly argue that the invasion of Iraq was a crime since we the american public didn't get the correct reasons for the invasion. But once again, the potential crime was the invasion. The current situation isn't a crime however. The current situation is a mess that needs to be cleaned up. In the USA, if you attack someone or damage there personal property, it is your responsible to pay them back. The same holds true for Iraq. We messed it up, we should fix it. It would be immoral to leave now and leave the poor peoples of Iraq defenseless. It is our duty to fix the situation and leave only when Iraq is a demcracy that can defend itself. It would be beyond selfish to leave now.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:27 pm[...] And, although it is hard to tell from the sliced footage of CNN that the folks over at Think Progress have, Bush, seems to continue his response, sticking to his tired guns, saying, “We’ll succeed until we quit.” Apparently, the big/important lesson from Vietnam seems to have slipped his mind. [...]
November 17th, 2006 at 5:51 pmroger_roger,
So, to clarify your position: The Iraq invasion was a crime but it would be immoral to stop committing the crime because it would be abandoning the victims, poor defenseless Iraqis, and you would be selfishly leaving the place in a shambles.
So now you are saying that the rape (Iraq invasion) should continue and that the rapist (your government and its administration) should be cheered on to hurry up and finish (achieve "victory") so that you can then immediately perform an abortion (clean up) on the victim (the Iraqis) and then begin the process of criticizing the victim (Iraqis) for being such a harlot in the first place.
That is the most despicable thing I have ever heard. Shame on you.
Peace.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:52 pm#71-mighty aphrodite,
I do equate the crime of the Iraq invasion with the heinous act of rape. Never denied that. I objected when you and roger_roger attempted to deceitfully claim that I was calling the military a bunch of rapists, which I most surely didn't.
You, mighty aphrodite, are the one cheering on the rapist and that is your problem, not mine. I say that the rape (Iraq invasion) must end and the victim (Iraqis) cared for and assisted in their recovery and, of course, the rapist (your government, its administration, and its supporters) should be appropriately punished.
I am very comfortable with my position. Your squirming and backpedaling suggests that you are not comfortable with yours and that is the only ray of hope I see for you.
Peace.
November 17th, 2006 at 6:28 pmUh, HELLO????
November 17th, 2006 at 6:31 pmHas anyone thougt about impeaching this president before he does anymore damage?
We've got the congress now...let's do it
Is it really such a good idea to make the suggestion, or at least imply, that it was a bad thing that N Vietnam won that war, while on a state visit to N Vietnam?
(Yes, I know N Vietnam no longer exists.)
Isn't this comment by Bush an affront to his hosts? It's one thing to believe that S Vietnam would be better off somehow had the US prevailed, but surely protocol dictates that you don't say that out loud while on a state visit to that very same country.
November 17th, 2006 at 6:36 pmMark - The Vietnamese are lucky Bush doesn't hurl on Uncle Ho's grave.
November 17th, 2006 at 6:43 pmThe lesson from Vietnam, should have been; don't get involved in a land war in Asia.
November 17th, 2006 at 6:53 pmLet's take it from the top -
#71 - "I do equate the crime of the Iraq invasion with the heinous act of rape."
******You are free to do so - thanks to people who have secured YOUR freedom. Nonetheless - your "feelings" of equation are not FACT.
"I objected when you and roger_roger attempted to deceitfully claim that I was calling the military a bunch of rapists, which I most surely didn’t."
******I did NO such thing - I accused you of sick and faulty "logic".
"You, mighty aphrodite, are the one cheering on the rapist and that is your problem, not mine. "
******I want the US and her partners to kill or quell terrorists. Period. You try equating ejaculation of a violent rapist with completion of a military operation, you sick-O.
"I say that the rape (Iraq invasion) must end and the victim (Iraqis) cared for and assisted in their recovery and, of course, the rapist (your government, its administration, and its supporters) should be appropriately punished."
November 17th, 2006 at 7:08 pm******As is your right to opine. Personally, I hope you live in a place that we would NEVER assist militarily should you ever get into trouble. ESAD.
#77 - Ahhh... The Princess Bride....
November 17th, 2006 at 7:09 pmThe problem is what US is currently doing there -- supplying and training Shia "troops" that then turn into militias and death squads -- doesn't help situation in any way. Al-Maliki and his Islamist buddies know that there will be a civil war and they are glad to suck as much money and weapons out of US as possible. There could be a way out of the situation, but not with Bush in charge, who's in denial. He still thinks that "Al-Maliki will make it". He still thinks it's "freedom vs. hate".
November 17th, 2006 at 7:56 pmIt's not about fixing, it's about making it worse, and worse, and worse.
Nice to see Bush showed up for duty in Vietnam as he skipped out when the country needed him. What a joke Bush is as he was a drunk cowardly soldier and now he's the same as a President. I know his Dad is proud he finally got to Vietnam even if he was scared before. Maybe Cheney will visit as those 5 deferments worked when needed it's all about show time.
November 17th, 2006 at 8:43 pmThe possible democratic future of Iraq would most likely follow the current pattern in Palestine and The Palestinian Authority. Washington, London Paris et al will tolerate 'democracy' only and until it threatens their interests.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:08 pmMust of found some good weed over there Georgie!
November 17th, 2006 at 11:28 pmMust have found some good weed over there Georgie!
November 17th, 2006 at 11:28 pmhow 'bout this, George--how 'bout you and Cheney and Halliburton and Carlyle and KEN LAY (who I suspect is "laying low" in Paraguay right about now) go ahead and continue this debacle ON YOUR OWN DIME?
November 18th, 2006 at 8:25 amYou LOVE privatization so much--hire your own damned army to continue your SUCCESSFUL campaign to bring Democracy to Iraq, and when you're finished, claim the spoils (OIL) for yourself and charge us whatever you like.
You're right, we just don't have the stomach for this kind of thing, so just take your game somewhere else, and you can make us pay for kicking you out of our yard later, 'kay?
Dubya is a drunken AWOL coward who never served in combat...dodged service in Vietnam and has started a war just as stupid as Vietnam was. Dubya is supported by the 31%ers of the bottom dwelling delivernce wing of the GOP...the party that was defeated handily most recently and which the majority of Americans has turned away as stupid, crooked, dishonest, cowardly, hypocritical. That wing of the party supports profits of the militray industrial complex and oil companies and hides the closeted gay pedophiles they have entrusted leadership roles. Dubya is a worthless swine who will go down in history as the greatest mistake the USA ever made.
November 18th, 2006 at 10:01 amI know a tall, dark, sexy heart-o-pine 2 X 4 that would love to date Henry Kissinger. Just a metaphor for how ridiculous Kissinger's input is into our current dilemma, and Bush's totalitarian double speak to indicate we have the insurgency right where we want them. His ability to keep a step ahead in adding to the catastrophic end game is unprecedented. It's like he's running forward from in hope of finding a resolve and continuous stream of conformation for his skewered, reckless policies. Every time Bush goes behind a microphone we are witnessing the historic unraveling of a modern day Attila. By his own hand and his will many have been made to suffer.
November 18th, 2006 at 5:28 pmThis is exactly the talking point used by the rightwing..That american lost in Vietnam because we didn't try hard enough. This despite the fact that we spent 15 years fighting there and in the end were worse off than when we started. More war materiel was expended there than in both theaters of WW 11 together.
November 18th, 2006 at 11:17 pm"We made the mess, we need to clean it up.
Comment by Roger_Roger"
just curious.........does the "we" include you or your relatives?
November 19th, 2006 at 8:59 amBush says we stay until we are victorious. Why don't we just declare victory and go home then? What is victory in Iraq? Why should we worry about their civil war? Who cares if ElQaida takes up residency in Iraq? No Tora Bora caves in Iraq. They sould be easy to monitor there.
November 19th, 2006 at 9:14 pm[...] The same thing is now developing in Iraq. It used to be confined to the fringe right and neoconservative intellectuals, but lately it’s been creeping into the mainstream, to the point that Bush is saying, “We’ll succeed unless we quit” (via Amanda). [...]
November 22nd, 2006 at 1:04 amOK.. now victory in Iraq. Whose side are we on? Shia' or Suni? I ask because they will fight until one dominates the other. To win, we must either render both sides so much death and destruction they have no will to fight even each other, or bring them to the table to be friends. How likely is EITHER scenario? The Three State Solution is the only way to Get Out with minimal loss of life and property. REMEMBER Iraq is only an artificial creation of UK/Allies after WW I in order to secure the OIL RESOURCES for western exploitation. There is NO REASONABLE LOGIC to maintain the current borders and "NATION" now that all semblance of a unified government nad infrastructure has been totally anhilated by yours truly.
Please, quit your personal attacks, and start defining in detail "VICTORY" and "SOLUTION" ok?? I gave you my solution, what is yours?
November 22nd, 2006 at 1:57 pm[...] He has no facts to back up this concept, but that doesn’t matter. He is saying that this folly that we are spending trillions of dollars on boils down to overcoming “hate” with “freedom”. Apparently, this can be accomplished by sheer stubbornness. I don’t know about you, but I have never heard of such an asinine foreign policy in my life. You can watch the video of Bush telling us to stick it out here at ThinkProgress. [...]
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:26 am[...] The selection reflects an increasingly unified position on Iraq advocated by Kissinger, McCain, and President Bush. Bush is reportedly set to adopt McCain’s plan to escalate the war with tens of thousands of additional U.S. troops, and has taken up Kissinger’s mantra that victory in Iraq simply requires “sticking it out”: Kissinger sensed wobbliness everywhere on Iraq, and he increasingly saw it through the prism of the Vietnam War. For Kissinger, the overriding lesson of Vietnam is to stick it out. [...]
December 19th, 2006 at 3:12 pmIs it just me or does it make sense to anyone else:
If you lose a war and it has no impact on your strategic position, then the war must not have been all that dang important in the first place.
The soviet system fell less than twenty years after we "lost" the war in VN, and the chi-coms and the Vietcong opened their markets to the west and asked to join the WTO as dues paying members shortly thereafter. Is this the agony of defeat?
What was the alternative in VN? Were we going to occupy Hanoi and deal with the kind of insurgency we now have in Iraq? Or, were we just going to kill with Nukes all the people we were allegedly liberating?
Obviously I don't get the deep wisdom of Kissinger and dubya. I guess I'm just an idiot.
And another thing, the Repugs claim Raygun defeated the USSR, but the Taliban also claim the credit for the fall of the USSR. If Raygun was trying to scare the USSR by running up huge deficits, can somebody tell poor ignorant me why the USSR didn't just hunker down like Cuba or N. Korea? Could it be they really were scared of the Moslems more than they were the awesome ability of the US to pour money down a rat hole? Put yourself in their shoes: Hmmm, we can either get the US to sink billions in our oil fields like they do the military industrial money pit, or we can face the Moslems alone --- what to do? Gee, I guess we'll take the money. Tough choice!
Like I say, I'm really dumb. So just spell it all out for me without out all the sarcasm, double entendres and sophisticated witicisms. All that clever right-wing rhetoric is lost on me anyhow. Just make it simple, so a simpleton like me can understand: How are we helping ourselves by endlessly pouring money and blood onto the burning quicksands of Iraq?
Is this really what Machiavelli would have advised a renaissance Prince? But wait, Venice destroyed Constantinople on that kind of advice, thereby dooming millions of Christians to future Moslem domination. So, I guess the advice of Kissinger doesn't seem so out of line with the history of stupid wars down through the ages.
Oh, but wait, I know. It's all so that we can speed up Armageddon and the rapture --- so we can be lifted up into the thin frigid air of the stratosphere, or the crystaline spheres, or whatever the flat earth society thinks is above the clouds. Am I getting warm?
Oh, Oh! I know! We play the role of Shiva, the destroyer, to save mankind by destroying it. Now I get it. Mel Gibson, are you listening? Let's you and me collaborate on a script. When in doubt, do something violent. Our salvation is at hand.
December 22nd, 2006 at 4:13 ambredan fraser
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