One year ago today,
By on Nov 17th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
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Yes he did, I commend him.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:45 pmYay Jack Murtha! You’ve got big brass ones.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:50 pmI listen to the comparasions with Vietnam with an open mind. But I did run across this about George Washington in a book on American Presidents written 40 years ago:
“Washington and his men spent the bitterly cold winter of 1777-78 at Valley Forge. Washington’s steadfastness to the American cause and his closeness to his troops held the army together, even while some of the leaders of Congress were wondering whether he should be replaced. ”
Although you can say it would be detrimental to stay the course in Iraq, image the consequences if the Congress had quit on Washington in 1778. Sometimes it is simply a matter of will.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:51 pm#3 Paul,
You can also say the same about Lincoln, or FDR. G.W. Bush, however, is neither a Washington, a Lincoln, or an FDR. The war in Iraq is also not as important to the very existence of our country as the Revolution, the Civil War or World War II. In fact, the principles that those three wars embodied, the principles of our country, are lacking in the Iraq war despite the claims in the rhetoric supporting the war.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:59 pm#3. If we were fighting to keep our country together (Civil War) or to gain independence from tyranny, you would be right. But, we are not. We are OCCUPYING a country that happened to have oil and be geographically close to the country that we had already invaded. Moot!
http://www.getsomejosh.com
November 17th, 2006 at 10:00 pmAshenShard – Great minds think alike
November 17th, 2006 at 10:01 pmPlus… Heh …he he …. He tried to kill my Daddy…. Heh… he he
November 17th, 2006 at 10:04 pmWashington froze his balls off at Valley Forge in 1777-78, whereas Bush, during the Vietnam war, took it easy in the Champagne division of the National Guard.
Bush has felt zero physical discomfort from the deserts of Iraq.
Bush has never smelled the dead flesh stinking in the deserts of Iraq.
Bush desrves to be renditioned to the deserts of Iraq.
November 17th, 2006 at 10:39 pmThey tried to paint him liberal, I remember that and it wouldn’t stick.
November 17th, 2006 at 10:40 pmA lot of military were ticked at the “swiftboating” attempts of a fellow soldier with an excellent military record.
By the way, the name origin of Paul, from the Latin, is small, as in “of small mind”. Before all of you go tearing off, the origin of Walter is Germanic and Scandinavian and means “strong sword”.
November 17th, 2006 at 10:45 pm#3 paul: Washington and his men spent the bitterly cold winter of 1777-78 at Valley Forge.
So Washington froze his ass off in Valley Forge.
What actual discomfort from the war in Iraq, or any other war for that matter, has Bush directly experienced?
Bad comparison.
You just pointed out what a puss Bush is in comparison to Washington.
ROTFLAMOL
November 17th, 2006 at 10:45 pmpaul
even while some of the leaders of Congress were wondering whether he should be replaced.
You mean…oh, horrors…the civilian leaders…had…OVERSIGHT…on…the…military…even at the….beginning of our country?
November 17th, 2006 at 10:47 pm“Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.”
November 17th, 2006 at 10:57 pmGeorge Washington
“One year ago today,Rep. Jack Murtha (D-PA) changed the Iraq debate” …. and then was overwhelmingly rejected as leader by his fellow Democrats.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:38 pmSomeone had to at least broach the subject. The dreamy haze of war and fear and subordination had to be broken. Should we pack up and leave in 10 days, No. Should we change our strategy and get our troops out of harms way ASAP, YES.
When Russ Feingold presented the measure to censure the President, did he think it would pass? NO. He did it to send a message of resistance.
http://www.getsomejosh.com
November 17th, 2006 at 11:42 pmBad comparison.
You just pointed out what a puss Bush is in comparison to Washington.
Comment by goodscarrier
I wonder how many soldier’s funerals Washington went to. Then compare that to Bush…which is zero. Again the comparision falls way flat.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:42 pmhttp://www.LouDobbs4President.com Petiition
November 17th, 2006 at 11:53 pmThank you for what you did for the Dems, Mr. Murtha. Now go clean up your house.
November 18th, 2006 at 12:08 amAmerica’s Least Wanted
Our 1 year anniversary of the road back to freedom. Thank you, Jack.
November 18th, 2006 at 1:23 amand then was overwhelmingly rejected as leader by his fellow Democrats.
—- Exley
That is so lame Ex. Sorry, I already covered that in another thread.
All the myths being passed by the right wing pundits about the election is pure BS.
Simple, It’s the dishonesty, stupid.
Not that I am calling you stupid.
5 Myths About the Midterm Elections
MYTH: Joe Lieberman’s victory proves the netroots don’t matter.
REALITY: The netroots had some key victories
MYTH: Democrats won because they carefully recruited more conservative candidates.
REALITY: Democrats won because their candidates were conservative about their message.
MYTH: The losses Republicans sufferend this election were no different than what you usually see in a President’s sixth year in office.
REALITY: Redistricting minimized what might have been a truly historic shellacking.
MYTH: The election was all about the war.
REALITY: It’s the dishonesty, stupid.
MYTH: Republicans lost their base.
November 18th, 2006 at 1:59 amREALITY: The base turned out, they just got beat.
Rep. Murtha carried the banner for the democrats leading up to the mid-term. His loss of the House Maj. Seat was more about the party’s need to say that going forward in the years to come we must look to the even greater issues; though the war is a great issue. Perhps the party felt his banner on the war, although a legitmate one, would be waived in the public’s face each time he appeard to champion other issues. He is now free to say what he feels on all issues; more so than if he had been majority leader. This was no defeat, but a shrewed democrat move. Something we have had not had in quite some time. The fear mongering tribe, who tell us what’s wrong with America and who’s to blame for it are nearly over. Common sense in America will prevail. That was what the election was about.
November 18th, 2006 at 4:17 amMurtha got swiftboated by Hoyer, but eventually the dirt will get thrown back on the one who threw it > lol.
November 18th, 2006 at 5:56 amJay- I agree. The old ABSCAM stuff was ridiculous. But, it was our own dems that Swiftboated. But, not to worry. He will be a stronger player for the Dems as a voice unfettered by the politics that comes with the House Majority position. I believe dems showed some savvy here. Wait and see.
November 18th, 2006 at 7:25 am#17. My post wasn’t really about George Bush, but more about giving up on the war in Iraq. It is an example, that even in the most important struggle in our nations history, there was self doubt. Murtha’s stand on Iraq was as courageous as his stand in ABSCAM. (I’m not interested in your bribe, at this point?). It is easy to give in to self doubt. And as my example provides, it is sometimes the best course of action to stay the course.
November 18th, 2006 at 8:33 amJack’s been swiftboated by the bluedog crew…
…al Cracker Dems need to be put in check ASAP…
…by the by…
…has anyone else heard about the Repulsivescum vote to reinstate that criminal degenerate horse racing gambler…
…to the Chairmanship of the FCC?
The first step in controlling the people…
…is controlling the message…
November 18th, 2006 at 8:38 am… and yet, the Dems in congress dismissed Murtha as too extreme to actually hold a position of power …
I suspect that’s because the Dems resorted to stuffing ballot boxes in late reporting Dem precincts to win tight elections, and not any groundswell on issues pushed by Murtha ….
November 18th, 2006 at 8:50 amActually, Cindy Sheehan changed the debate the previous summer. Funny that everybody’s chosen to forget about her.
November 18th, 2006 at 9:26 amNot everyone has chosen to forget about her. After the election I posted an address where everyone could send her a thank-you card.
November 18th, 2006 at 10:07 amOff-topic, but I can’t hang around waiting for a thread on this:
What Congress can do is de-fund the position. Unfortunately, either way, teens who desparately need services will be denied.
This is yet another attempt at using fear to control people. In this case, fear of pregnancy and STDs to control the human sex drive. However, the drive to procreate is not controllable, and in the past, attempts to control it by denying birth control have only resulted in more unwanted pregnancies and more STDs. Anyone care to guess what becomes of an unwanted baby, born into a life of poverty?
November 18th, 2006 at 10:15 amBlair finally admits that Iraq is a “disaster”:
Intervention in Iraq ‘pretty much of a disaster’ admits Blair, as minister calls it his ‘big mistake’
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,,1951267,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=1
November 18th, 2006 at 10:31 am#26, paul: My post wasn’t really about George Bush, but more about giving up on the war in Iraq.
Yeah right.
Your post [#3] was about “Washington’s steadfastness” and Congress’s wavering thoughts about replacing Washington who was freezing his ass off along with wounded and dying men at Valley Forge.
With “I listen to the comparasions with Vietnam” and Iraq in mind, you linked Bush’s steadfastness on Iraq to Washington’s steadfastness and also you linked the thoughts of Congress of 1777-78 to the thoughts of the Congress of 2006-07 which is planning on drastically changing the course in Iraq which is essentially replacing the commander.
Shame on you paul: It is no wonder that you do not criticize Bush who has felt zero physical discomfort from the deserts of Iraq, or of any other war; who has never smelled the dead flesh stinking in the deserts of Iraq, or of any other war; who, despite this, continually condemns tens of thousands to be killed or crippled without a care in the world.
Sick, sick, sick!!
Go to Iraq paul: The Shiite fundamentalists need canon fodder for the Sunnis. Its time you act instead of yapping away like a coward in TP. Easy for you to say be steadfast as you sit at home.
November 18th, 2006 at 10:56 amWell said, goodscarrier.
November 18th, 2006 at 11:12 amJack and Nancy need to work on re-deploying our troops out of harms way and I will work on re-deploying Dick Cheney from his secure bunker to one with bars.
http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com
November 18th, 2006 at 12:12 pmThe day Jack Murtha stood up and spoke the truth was the day the Democratic party finally got a backbone.
Well done Congressman Murtha.
November 18th, 2006 at 1:27 pmPaul, in comparing this war on Iraq to our struggle for independence from the Monarchy of Britain, you are willing to sh*t on some of our most cherished historical traditions to support your dear leader. Disgusting. And, a new low for you. Congrats!
“As mankind becomes more liberal they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protection of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations in examples of justice and liberality.â€
– George Washington, Letter to the Roman Catholics, March 15, 1790
November 18th, 2006 at 2:00 pm#38: comparing this war on Iraq to our struggle for independence from the Monarchy of Britain
And what a comparison of wartime presidents it was!!Washington’s experience of being the commander in chief is so different than Bush’s.
Washington in fact froze his ass off with the men who were actually doing the killing and being killed and wounded. I am sure he could not help but see plenty of the blood and guts that war brings.
Contrarily, Bush has NEVER spent any real time with those in the US armed forces in Iraq.
Bush has never had to deal with the heat, dust, blood and guts, etc. which are re-shaping the hearts and minds of tens of thousands of people in Iraq.
Bush’s greatest moment in Iraq was sneaking in and posing like Martha Stewart with a fake turkey!!
November 18th, 2006 at 2:38 pmIf Notre Dame beats Army today then I must say that Notre Dame hates the troops and loves the terrorists.
(Note to dense right wingnuts: The above is irony making fun of the silly arguments right wingers make about progressives supporting terrorists.)
November 18th, 2006 at 3:32 pmSomeone Tell Bush We Lost in Vietnam
by Larry Johnson
Sat Nov 18th, 2006 at 03:24:27 PM EST
[snip]
What in God’s name is he talking about? I realize W missed the last few months of his time with the Air National Guard during the Vietnam War, but I had not realized, until now, that he completely ignored what happened in Vietnam. Mr. President. We fought in Vietnam for more than twelve years. More than two million U.S. soldiers fought there. Almost 57,000 American soldiers died and several hundred thousand were wounded. We trained hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese troops, we killed almost one million North Vietnamese and Viet Cong, we dropped more explosives on Vietnam then we used during World War II, and we defolitated significant portions of Vietnam’s rain forest.
And what did we achieve in the end? The United States fled the South Vietnamese capital, Saigon, to escape the invading North Vietnamese Army. North Vietnam “freed” the South from yankee imperialists and set about “reeducating” the South Vietnamese. News flash George. WE LOST!
So, what lesson are we to draw from all of this? Are you arguing that if we had stuck it out in Vietnam and spilled the blood of another 50,000 Americans and one million Vietnamese that things would be better today in Vietnam? Mr. President, that is bullshit.
The lesson of Vietnam for our policy in Iraq is that we should not waste the blood or limb of one more American soldier without a clear vision and plan of what we are trying to achieve. Most of the violence we face today is from indigenous Iraqis who see us as occupiers. The insurgents may not agree among themselves what the future of Iraq should be politically, but they are united in expelling us from the country.
We shed precious blood and treasure in Vietnam and then we abandoned the South Vietnamese to the North. Politicians in that day issued dire warnings that our retreat from Vietnam would lead to the communist takeover of Southeast Asia. That never happened. Instead, Vietnam developed on its own, fought a war with China, and is now adopting capitalism rather than communism as its model for growth. So much for falling dominoes.
There are several applicable lessons from Vietnam relative to Iraq. The Vietnamese actually had first rate military units that could fight on their on. Iraq’s military and police forces are essentially proxies for sectarian militia groups. Putting our troops in the midst of a civil war or war of national liberation without the force structure and size to confront the threat is a futile expenditure of U.S. lives. You have either forgotten or never learned that the deaths of 57,000 Americans in Vietnam achieved nothing other than inflicting sorrow and suffering on their surviving family members.
November 18th, 2006 at 4:22 pm