Hersh: Bush, Cheney Stovepiping Intelligence On Iran, Hiding Information From CIA
Hersh: Bush, Cheney Stovepiping Intelligence On Iran, Hiding Information From CIA
On CNN, New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh reported that a new CIA assessment concludes that “there’s no evidence Iran is doing anything that puts them close to a bomb.” Despite the intelligence agency’s conclusion, Hersh reports that the White House is still aggressively moving ahead with preparations for a military conflict with Iran.
As part of the White House’s preparations for Iran, Hersh says President Bush and Vice President Cheney are “stovepiping” intelligence and keeping information provided by the Israelis hidden from the CIA.
The Israelis are telling the White House, according to Hersh’s new article “The Next Act,” that they have a reliable agent inside Iran who reports that the nation is working on a trigger for a bomb. “Of course the people in the CIA want to know who [the agent] is, obviously,” Hersh said. “They certainly want to know what other evidence he has of actual making of a warhead. This is the internecine fight that’s going on — the same fight, by the way, that we had before Iraq.” Watch it:
Prior to the Iraq war, the White House set up intelligence stovepipes to “get information they wanted directly to the top leadership.” Cheney and company relied on information provided by the Iraqi National Congress, an exile group headed by Ahmad Chalabi. “Chalabi’s defector reports were…flowing from the Pentagon directly to the Vice-President’s office, and then on to the President, with little prior evaluation by intelligence professionals.”
State Dept. intelligence expert Greg Thielmann said that prior to the Iraq war that “garbage was being shoved straight to the President.” A U.S. official confirmed that defectors from Chalabi’s organization “had provided suspect information to numerous Western intelligence agencies. ‘It’s safe to say he tried to game the system,’ the official said.”
Hersh’s article suggests a similar breakdown in the intelligence process is happening with regards to Iran and may open to door to possible intelligence manipulation.
Full transcript:
HERSH: We can’t find, the new assessment says, we cannot find — the CIA says there’s no evidence that Iran is doing anything that puts them close to a bomb. There’s no secret program of significant bomb making.
BLITZER: The Israelis have a different assessment.
HERSH: Absolutely.
BLITZER: They think the Iranians may be within a year of getting to the threshold of having a point of no return, if you will, from having a bomb. When I was there in July, I had briefings. That’s what they suggested.
HERSH: They’ve been saying for, as you know, for five or ten years. The fact is Israelis have coming up with new human intelligence, sort of the counter CIA assessment, they’ve come up with an agent inside Iran. They have more than one. And this agent is — who’s been reliable so the Israelis claim in the past — who now says the Iranians are secretly working on making an actual trigger for a bomb. Even though they may not — we don’t have any specific evidence of a facility where they’re doing this work, the Israelis say yes they are, they’re getting ready to start detonating a weapon. Once they get the fissile material, the enriched material. Now, that information is being handled pretty much by the white house and various offices in the pentagon. And the CIA isn’t getting a good look at the Israeli intelligence. It’s the old word stovepiping. It’s the President and the Vice President, it’s pretty much being kept in the White House.
BLITZER: They’d like to get more access to this Israeli agent, is that what you’re saying?
HERSH: Of course, the people in the CIA want to know who he is, obviously. They certainly want to know what other evidence he has of actual making a warhead. This is the internecine fight that’s going on — the same fight, by the way, that we had before Iraq.
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Hersh is correct > Bush is having fabricated evidence gathered to support an attack on Iran, which could still happen this year, so a new war looms!
November 19th, 2006 at 1:00 pmI’m sure Israel has our best interests in mind…
November 19th, 2006 at 1:00 pmYou know what I would be happy for Iran to have a bomb or 50 ,
They would be able to stop america from threatening them day in day out
Grow up and talk to them - everyone else is , we all have embassies there
November 19th, 2006 at 1:02 pmA ‘Grand Bargain’ with Iran
Few political leaders are aware of the substance of the 2003 Iranian proposal, because major news media have never fully reported it. But that proposal, which is now a matter of public record, responded to U.S. interests on all four issues on which the Bush administration had made public demands on it. The proposal offered to use Iranian influence in Iraq to support “political stabilization and the establishment of democratic institutions and a non-religious government,†disavowing the aim of imposing a Shiite theocracy on Iraq. And it offers “full transparency†to provide assurances that it is not developing weapons of mass destruction.
Most important politically for the United States, however, Iranian leaders offered to stop “material support to Palestinian opposition groups…from Iranian territory†as well as “pressure on these organizations to stop violent actions against civilians within [Israel’s] borders of 1967.†And it offered to accept the Arab League “Beirut declarationâ€â€”a Saudi-sponsored initiative in March 2002 which proposed a comprehensive peace, including the establishment of normal relations, with Israel based on Israel’s withdrawal to pre-1967 war lines.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:04 pmMIstakes??? Those are not mistakes, those are lies so the ignorant mass of people supports any illegal action its government will take.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:12 pmBLITZER: The Israelis have a different assessment.
HERSH: Absolutely.
BLITZER: They think the Iranians may be within a year of getting to the threshold of having a point of no return, if you will, from having a bomb.
Hey, Isarelis think they are the chosen people. THat tells a lot about credibility.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:15 pmi hope bush does attack iran and venezuela and no korea, too
then and only then will the settler nation learn its lesson
November 19th, 2006 at 1:16 pmMIstakes??? Those are not mistakes, those are lies so the ignorant mass of people supports any illegal action its government will take.
Comment by Juan C
Absolutely, Juan. Let’s call them what they are — lies.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:17 pmWell then, Gates is their man. He knows all about messing with the reports.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:18 pmCertainly it is just another cake walk and they want their freedom. We’ll be greeted as liberators.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:22 pmLet’s call them what they are — lies.
Comment by Zooey
Exactly. (I thought I was alone in here :)
November 19th, 2006 at 1:22 pmWhat would motivate this administration to start another war? I’m just guessing, but I think it would be a pre-emptive strike against the new Congress who will be starting investigations in 2007. If I ignored warnings of a 9/11 attack that killed 3000 Americans;if I lied about the casus belli for starting an elective war in Iraq;if I drained the US Treasury to enrich my friends;if I strummed a guitar while New Orleans drowned….what would I do to avoid accountability? Start a real war that will assure a real scorched Earth result? And hope I can use this as an excuse to shutdown Congress and make myself a dictator beyond the bounds of Constitutional law? These guys are really dangerous now…they are wounded but still in the wheelhouse of the ship of state.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:24 pmYou’re not alone… do you think anyone will buy the lie this time?
November 19th, 2006 at 1:33 pmExactly. (I thought I was alone in here :)
Comment by Juan C
No chance, Juan. I’m tired of the generosity of words such as, “misled,” “misdirected,” etc. Ugh.
Call it what it is, then maybe the people won’t be so confused.
Heh. I crack myself up.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:34 pmMy fear is that Congressional Democrats cut a deal with Bush, before the election, to attack Iran afterwards. Dubya could have attacked Iran just prior to the election to help the GOP, but he did not do so, and now a war with Iran appears even more likely before the new year. If Pelosi and Reid betrayed us, then they will rot in prison with Bush someday!
November 19th, 2006 at 1:34 pmI saw this interview, and Hersch has excellent sources within the government. When he says something you can pretty much take it to the bank.
We have to remember that the clowns in the White House are not reasonable people so we cannot expect reasonable and responsible behavior out of them. I firmly believe that Bush, Cheney, Rice et al., are jonesing for a dustup with Iran. I don’t believe a word they say.
I do however, believe Sy Hersch.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:35 pm[…] Watch Stovepiping […]
November 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pmYou’re not alone… do you think anyone will buy the lie this time?
Comment by SKdeA
30%
November 19th, 2006 at 1:41 pmdo you think anyone will buy the lie this time?
Comment by SKdeA
30%
Comment by Zooey
Sadly.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:44 pmThis is the centerpiece of Campaign 2008, and the only play that could save the GOP. They will need a war and another rally-round-the-flag effect or else ‘08 will be as big a disaster as ‘06, with the WH thrown in.
But will the people rally round this bunch any more? I doubt it.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:46 pmWe were warned a long time ago not to allow foreign countries to influence our political processes as it undermines our constitution and our Republic.
Here we have a President and a Vice President, both Chickenhawks, with extremely low approval ratings, in a democratic society, ignoring the wishes of the people and cherrypicking intelligence and basically telling the people to screw off and go to war because Evil knows best.
How is that Democratic?
They are trying to destroy the constitution and implement one party rule. They are destroying the checks and balances and undermine our intelligence apparatus which BUSH just spent billions on to ‘Fix’ [cough]
Bush overhauled intelligence agencies and put his cronies in charge of it just so he could ignore it?
That to me is the definition of nuts.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:53 pmMaybe I’m being a Pollyanna here, but I just don’t see how they could even consider aggressions toward Iran.
Bomb or no bomb, America is not suppossed to be the ones starting wars.
I also don’t see any rally around the flag moment that would give these bozos the support they want. (need)
I think we’re all pretty much fed up with war, period.
-Or should I remove these rose-colored glasses? :)
November 19th, 2006 at 2:09 pm[…] UPDATE: And check out this TV interview with Seymour Hersh. […]
November 19th, 2006 at 2:12 pmYou’re not alone… do you think anyone will buy the lie this time?
Comment by SKdeA
32% of Americans are so delusional that they approve of the way little boots is doing his job. So they already have the base down. Once the think tanks the warmongers in congress AIPAC and the corporate whore media start flogging the story in ernest they’ll have more than enough support for the next act.
November 19th, 2006 at 2:14 pm-Or should I remove these rose-colored glasses? :)
Comment by trueblue
No, they look cute on you.
And I really hope you’re right.
November 19th, 2006 at 2:20 pmA war on Iran would escalate rapidly out of control into a global WWIII, so an emergency draft would have to take place. Only wealthy Americans sons and daughters would be exempted from the draft. Pres. Bush’s two daughters have already been sent to South America and Sen. Hillary Clinton’s daughter is being sent to England as a Rhodes Scholar student, so tell me this war is not in the works, since their kids are getting sent away to avoid the draft. Americans must refuse to fight and die for Israel!
November 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pm(I thought I was alone in here :)
Comment by Juan C
That was a joke. :)
I’m tired of the generosity of words such as, “misled,†“misdirected,†etc. Ugh.
Call it what it is, then maybe the people won’t be so confused.
Comment by Zooey
Good post!
November 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pmThanks, Zooey.
To expand for one more sentence, I thought we sent a pretty clear message with the elections: “We’re not buying your crap anymore, Mr. President.”
Thanks.
November 19th, 2006 at 2:29 pmI’ll get off my soap box now.
If that becomes truth, Jay R.,
November 19th, 2006 at 2:34 pmI’ll be bunking with Juan!
;)
Hey, true. Hows everything?
November 19th, 2006 at 2:35 pmIf that becomes truth, Jay R.,
I’ll be bunking with Juan!
;)
Comment by trueblue
Heh. Now Juan is conflicted…
November 19th, 2006 at 2:36 pmtrueblue if I was not over 50, then I would flee to Canada, but emergency draft will be 18 to 30, then to 40, then to 50. At least it will be amusing to watch average GOPer kids yanked out of their homes and colleges for this war on Iran.
November 19th, 2006 at 2:38 pmI’ll be bunking with Juan!
;)
Comment by trueblue
Oy! :)
November 19th, 2006 at 2:39 pmto bunk:
intransitive senses : to occupy a bunk or bed : stay the night
transitive senses : to provide with a bunk or bed
Well, of course, true. :)
November 19th, 2006 at 2:46 pmOK. The question is how can we solve this problem. Remember when a large number of citizens took on the streets in the former German Democratic Republik? They simply surrounded the ‘Government’ and ended 30 years of oppression. And believe me there was a chance that the Russians would help a little bit like in Hungary. But in 1989 there were just TOO MANY PEOPLE on the streets. This is what has to happen here. To prevent WORLD WAR THREE and
November 19th, 2006 at 2:47 pmmake no mistake, that’s what we are looking at here, because there are players in this game who will of course use the chaos of a widespread conflict in the Middle East to gain control over the vast reserves of oil there. The other impact a Middle East war will have is the total collapse of the world economy. I talked to my dead in Germany the other day. Gas at the pump there is about to approach the equivalent of EIGHT DOLLARS PER GALLON. A Middle East conflict will send crude oil prices upwards to possibly $ 350 per barrel. What do You think will happen with the US economy itself with gas prices of ‘only’ $ 8 per gallon? Somebody mentioned it earlier and I share this assessment. Bush is planning to implement his ‘Executive Orders’ and abandon Congress and Senate. First they will attack Iran, then in the following economic chaos they will declare a national state of emergency and with it Martial Law.
These people need to be stopped NOW. And a Government reinstated: OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE. We will find out how we have to go about this AFTER WE ELIMINATE the gravest threat to human mankind after the Cold War. We have internet and we can blog stupid messages around the globe in an instant. Now its time to use the advantages of immediate communication and response. All the fuss about the internet and media lately is a well orchestrated attempt of the WH to disable widespread mobilisation of masses of people. But this I believe: Only with a couple of million of people in Washington DC we will be able to stop the biggest catastrophy in human history. Thank You for Your time.
Thought it was a creative way to say “Hello”, Juan!
Jay Randal,
Canada’s too cold! I’m 40, myself, so I don’t think I would personally have a problem.
I would hate to see any child yanked away from their homes for a trumped up, pointless war. (even the drunken twins, I guess…)
It just it so un-American to start a war.
That’s not what we’re all about.
Time will tell.
November 19th, 2006 at 2:47 pmBush Regime will also force all the illegal immigrants to join the military to fight Iran. A world war would require eventually the drafting of 10 to 20 million troops or more. It would be a major bloodbath!
November 19th, 2006 at 2:49 pmJuan,
November 19th, 2006 at 2:51 pmI wondered if you’d know what “bunk” meant! - If I wasn’t so darned old… :)
40 is still young trueblue > remember Bush just upped age of joining the military to 45, so you are safe for the first draft, and the 2nd too, but the third one it becomes iffy for you. My age group would be drafted in desperation, like Hitler did at the last before he died in Berlin, when he called up men up to 75 and kids down to 15, so Bush could try that before he dies in his bunker I suppose!
November 19th, 2006 at 2:56 pmBetween ItsJustKarma and Jay Randal, I’m going to have to go to my “happy place” for the rest of the afternoon.
November 19th, 2006 at 2:57 pmWith what happened two weeks ago, do you really think he’d try to pull that stunt? Do you think the military would go along with Martial Law, seeing as they were getting close to a mutiny with Rumsfeld already?
I don’t know.
I hope not.
Thought it was a creative way to say “Helloâ€, Juan!
Comment by trueblue
If creative means to make me spill my coffee all over the screen…then yeah, it was creative. :)
If I wasn’t so darned old… :)
November 19th, 2006 at 2:59 pmYou know youre not. ;)
Sorry, Juan!
November 19th, 2006 at 3:11 pmI have been against impeachment of Bush, preferring instead to let him and Cheney swing in the wind of their corruption. But if one bomb is dropped on Iran, not only should they be impeached, they should be tried for war crimes and put in prison for the rest of their lives. These two men are very dangerous to the world. They are the terrorists.
On second thought, I think I am now in favor of impeachment. We just can’t take the chance of having these two criminals in power.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:11 pmJuan,
trueblue is such a frickin’ chicken…an old chicken… :)
November 19th, 2006 at 3:13 pmJuan,
trueblue is such a frickin’ chicken…an old chicken… :)
Comment by Zooey
…anyone get the number of that bus…?
November 19th, 2006 at 3:17 pmtrueblue is such a frickin’ chicken…an old chicken… :)
Comment by Zooey
She is fine so far, Zoo. :)
November 19th, 2006 at 3:19 pmOn second thought, I think I am now in favor of impeachment. We just can’t take the chance of having these two criminals in power.
Comment by carollt
Yay! One bomb would be too many, we are too weakened by our involvement in Iraq.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:19 pmIran has close ties with both China and Russia. The forces of the United States are too tied down and depleted by the Iraqi occupation, Iran would be able to take out all US forces in Iraq and the Gulf in short order. After that I do not know what exactly would happen, but it does not look pretty. We could be facing Russia, China, North Korea and the entire Arab world.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:26 pmSurely someone in that Administration would tell him what a disaster that would be, right, Walt the Man?
November 19th, 2006 at 3:32 pmcarollt,
You know what impeaching the both of them would mean -
President Pelosi!
That would be sweeeeet.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:34 pmTheir fear mongering is a whole lot of hooey and the people know it. They absolutely will not get away with “another Iraq” in Iran. The Bush/Cheney regime is all over but the singing…..they’re both “lame excuses/lameducks”.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:35 pmJust like Dumbya told us that the CIA intel was “flawed”….hah! The only flaw it had, if it had one, is that it did not agree with the already-hatched plans of the neo-conartists. That’s the only flaws it had.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:36 pmImpeachment proceedings must begin NOW before this sociopath destroys any more of humanity. He’s perfectly capable of doing so….just like any run-of-the-mill sociopath.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:38 pmThis sociopath must be stopped before his ego propels him to make another devastating mistake…impeach him NOW before he does something very, very stupid. He’s a desperate egomaniac whose world is closing in on him. He’s a pariah and toxic to his constituents and party; a lameduck to the Congress and america and needs to be put out of office since his mental acuity with this Iran posturing is certainly extremely dangerous. After all, this sociopath is playing with OUR lives as well ….time to IMPEACH him now before he can do more harm to this country and others.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:45 pmShe is fine so far, Zoo. :)
Comment by Juan C
Still a chicken…or maybe a roadrunner — beep! beep!
November 19th, 2006 at 3:47 pmI believe I am younger than *other* posters here….
November 19th, 2006 at 4:06 pmMs. Zooey!
;)
I believe I am younger than *other* posters here….
Ms. Zooey!
;)
Comment by trueblue
Only chronologically, truechicken. :)
November 19th, 2006 at 4:20 pmOK.
November 19th, 2006 at 4:26 pmWhy am I a chicken?
I already said I’d bunk with Juan!
I’m bold. When I wanna be….
OK.
Why am I a chicken?
I already said I’d bunk with Juan!
I’m bold. When I wanna be….
Comment by trueblue
*ahem*
Thought it was a creative way to say “Helloâ€, Juan!
November 19th, 2006 at 4:31 pmI just didn’t want him to be all riled up at once, is all!
I hadn’t spoken to him in a while.
Didn’t want him to think I was easy.
;)
November 19th, 2006 at 4:34 pmWhat!?
Hey Juan, true is easy.
November 19th, 2006 at 4:40 pm*Not*
Although if it meant keeping miniblue out of a war….
November 19th, 2006 at 4:46 pmAlthough if it meant keeping miniblue out of a war….
Comment by trueblue
We all have our price…yours is really high. Mine, not so much…
November 19th, 2006 at 4:49 pmThese guys are really dangerous now…they are wounded but still in the wheelhouse of the ship of state.
Comment by Innocent Bystander — November 19, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
I agree with your assessment. An attack on Iran is Bush’s insurance against impeachment.
November 19th, 2006 at 4:59 pmZooey, Juan C, trueblue Zooey, Juan C, trueblue
Please consider taking your personal chats offline: I am past tired of having to scroll past your chit-chats which have nothing to do with the threads.
Again, you people are hijacking an important thread and wasting a lot of bandwidth.
You are making the trolls seem hospitable.
E.g.
11, 14, 25, 27, 28-34= 100% waste of bandwidth for people other than yourselves
38, 41, 44, 45, 46 = 100% waste of bandwidth for people other than yourselves
55, 57, 58-61 = 100% waste of bandwidth for people other than yourselves
November 19th, 2006 at 5:03 pmSeymour Hersh is usually correct - history validates his credentials as an investigative journalist. His article today suggests a redux of the run-up to the invasion of Iraq - only instead of Chalabi having the White House ear, an anonymous Israeli is providing “intelligence.”
November 19th, 2006 at 5:03 pmIt seems to me that Bush&Co would prefer their own (secret, unproven) intelligence sources rather than the agency designed for this activity - the CIA - in our own government. It’s like Washington is simply a facade of government, because in the White House, there are secret meetings, where secret individuals help make secret plans that are secretly advanced and the public learns the selected secrets when the secret plan has reached the point of no return.
Impeachment is imperitive to get these insane people away from the button. Thet cannot be trusted and are very dangerous.
November 19th, 2006 at 5:05 pm#65
Thank You very Much.
November 19th, 2006 at 5:20 pmI am younger than Methuselah. Does that count?
November 19th, 2006 at 6:19 pmThe Administration is already a train wreck….now it’s threatening to fall off a cliff as well….
Iranian diplomacy offered us all we wanted a few years ago as the above poster said. Hardline incompetants like Cheney told Bush to ignore it, and as Bush has little cognitive ability of his own he followed that advice, “WE don’t talk to nobody we don’t talk to!’
However if Iran is capable of a bomb in a year? That idiot president of theirs isn’t helping by being an equal size moron. And of course the Israeli’s are bipartisan in all this…Then as someone says bombing Iran would be a nice diversion from humiliation at home at the hands of Congress…
It all adds up to the final two years being worse than the previous 6…
‘You’re doing a heck of a job Duckya!’
November 19th, 2006 at 6:31 pm#66, Marie: His article today suggests a redux of the run-up to the invasion of Iraq
What I’d like to know is how the run-up to the bombing of Iran and eventually Syria corresponds to the `beating of the war drums’ by the old school Neocons prior to 9/11.
See what I am trying to get at?
The Neocons are still running the show.
But Bush appears not to be doing so many Chinese splits, cartwheels, and pom-pom tosses for them.
Plus, I do not think the US military is playing along this time.
Hersh’s article represents another dagger into the cold sick dead heart of the Neocons.
November 19th, 2006 at 6:44 pmThe comments here are interesting but I think you’ve all missed the point completely. The whole thing is not about WMD, it’s about the US dollar and the US economy. Since 1971, the USA decoupled the US dollar from the gold standard and has been printing Monopoly money and forcing the rest of the world to use its petrodollars to buy oil and gas via NYMEX and IPE. This gave the US dollar a tangible value because it was backed by oil.
Saddam Hussein did the unthinkable and started selling Iraqi oil for Euro and suddenly the Europeans discovered that they could dump their holdings of US dollars that they had been forced to keep to buy oil. The US dollar fell drastically against all other world currencies and the White House went into panic mode. Instantly Iraq became a danger to the world because of WMD and the USA invaded. The first thing that the Americans did was to switch Iraqi oil sales back to the US dollar and the US was safe - for a while. The Iraq invasion was also meant as a warning to OPEC not to try and sell oil for any other currency but the US petrodollar or else.
Iran has announced for some time that it was going to start trading its oil and gas for Rial or Euro and totally bypass NYMEX and IPE, in fact even set up its own Oil Bourse. Iran’s biggest potential clients are China, holding nearly $1 trillion and India. If China decides to dump even half of its US treasury notes and US dollars, the US economy would disintegrate, making the 1930 Depression look like a picnic by comparison.
The White House can see the catastrophe looming after 35 years of forcing the rest of the world to use its Monopoly money. Eventually this house of cards has to collapse and Iraq, although reversed in the short term, was the start. If Iran opens an Oil Bourse and other nations buy their oil for Euro, a currency with real tangible value, unlike the US dollar, the USA will find them knocking on the door of the Federal Reserve demanding to redeem their US dollars for gold, not empty promises.
Of course it this happens, precipitated by Iran’s action, the USA will not be able to cover its colossal debt and will commit an act of bankruptcy, the US dollar will be exposed as worthless fiat currency and the rest of the world may very well turn to the Euro as the new global currency to replace the petrodollar. That will signal the end of the USA’s global power.
This is why the USA has to stop Iran. It has nothing whatsoever to do with nuclear weapons. Even if Iran had a huge arsenal of nukes, it would not dare use them because the USA would turn Teheran into a smoking hole in the ground and the Iranians know it. So the real reason for White House conniving against Iran is to save the US economy from complete collapse. However it is only a matter of time, whether it is Iran or another oil-producing nation that puts the final nail into the US dollar, it will happen, all because the USA’s massive economic scam on the rest of the world is finally unravelling.
November 19th, 2006 at 6:52 pmGoodscarrier,
You do realize that when you’re bitching about a little fun, you’re not commenting on topic either?
Please, lighten up.
November 19th, 2006 at 7:03 pmI am hoping the Democrats and the investigations will keep Bush and Cheney far to busy to do anything.
November 19th, 2006 at 7:07 pmIn the meantime, Hersch is a national treasure
#73, Zooey
Apologies to the rest but I will quickly address the above so that the Cheers crowd (Zooey = Norm, Juan C = Carla, trueblue = Claven) can hopefully exercise some restraint and Netiquette.
A little fun?
When I spoke up, you guys selfishly seized no less than 22 out of 65 posts with your chitchat
.
Zooey: Please, lighten up.
Please, tighten up: This is not your personal chat room, blog, or website. People do not come here to read through your personal stuff. E.g. Still a chicken…or maybe a roadrunner — beep! beep! Only chronologically, truechicken. :)
That’s all.
November 19th, 2006 at 7:46 pmYou know where Cheney can put that stovepipe?
November 19th, 2006 at 7:48 pm#71 Goodscarrier
November 19th, 2006 at 7:49 pmI don’t have it figured out - I just see the repetition of game plan.
Many of the neocons have publicly split - but have they split with their game plan? Bush has been their puppet from day one, the monkey to put up front to read their scripts (albeit poorly), while they continue to strategize their self-serving, diabolical actions.
Once again, Mr. Hersh comes through.
November 19th, 2006 at 7:49 pmThat’s all.
Comment by goodscarrier
I say this with all grace: F*ck off.
November 19th, 2006 at 7:52 pm#72 ziggy
November 19th, 2006 at 7:59 pmGood writing on the real reasons for our govt’s intrusion into the affairs of the region. It’s always the money. When we use shorthand and say it’s for the oil, the full explanation is oil, and how it is traded on the market, vs. the value of the dollar.
I read articles in recent years expanding just what you write today - but people don’t take the time to educate themselves.
Iran should be wiped off the map! Death to Islam!
November 19th, 2006 at 8:08 pmHersh is an Islmic loving fool. he should be tied with bricks around his feet and dumped in a river!
November 19th, 2006 at 8:12 pmThis website should be called Think Dhimmitude. what a bunch of naive fools you guys are. If the Chinese or Muslims invaded this country you guys would welcome them as liberators probably. What idiots and fools!
November 19th, 2006 at 8:22 pmWhat really amazes me is the absolute gullibility of certain nations that have accepted the fabrication of WMD in Iraq, despite not one shred of evidence to support that they existed. In fact there was a mountain of data, supported by years of UN inspectors that proved conclusively that there were no WMD in Iraq, but it completely baffles me that the American public totally ignored this and just accepted the garbage and lies emanating from the White House and allowed Bush to wage war on a sovereign nation with no legal reason.
Now the American public and a few American sycophants such as UK, Germany, France and Australia seem to be accepting the fabrication that Iran has a nuclear weapons program, even though the most recent expose by renowned reporter Seymour Hersh shows that even the CIA has found that there is no evidence of this at all.
Why are the American people and a few US allies buying this crap? Why aren’t Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld being impeached right now for knowingly fabricating evidence about Iraq and lying to the American people about Iran, when they have reports from the CIA and other credible sources that show the exact opposite? Why haven’t these warmongering bastards been charged by the UN War Crimes Tribunal for their illegal war on Iraq?
Just as an aside, Bush constantly spouts that the world is worried about Iran’s alleged nuclear program, however at the last count, there were over 190 countries on this planet and credible reports state that the overwhelming majority of them totally support Iran’s legal right as signatory to the NPT to have the full nuclear cycle.
There are only a few nations that are against Iran’s nuclear program, the USA, UK, France, Germany and Australia among them. UN Security Council permanent members China and Russia seem to think that Iran does have the right to a civilian nuclear program. Unfortunately the USA and its allies have been manipulating the USSC for decades to get their own way. Iran has now exposed the UNSC as being nothing more than a weapon of US foreign policy.
The other 180 countries in the world have a totally different opinion, but as usual, are disregarded. It would be an interesting exercise if the entire membership of the UN was asked to vote on whether Iran should be permitted to exercise its legal right to have a nuclear program. The result would stagger the USA completely.
Bush constantly refers to Iran’s nuclear weapons program, but where is his evidence? How can he keep saying this nonsense without being challenged by somebody? Doesn’t anybody ever jump up at his press conferences and confront him to put up or shut up? I just find it astonishing that Bush can just keep ranting about Iran’s nuclear weapons, like he did about Iraq’s WMD and nobody does anything to make him produce some hard evidence.
Hell’s bells, we all know that the USA only invaded Iraq because Bush knew conclusively that Iraq had no WMD. Can you imagine the reaction of the American public if Saddam had lobbed a nuke at Dharhan and killed 50,000 US troops in one shot? Bush wouldn’t have dared order an attack on Iraq, knowing that Saddam had WMD, just as he will not risk attacking North Korea and find the entire US Seventh Fleet vaporised by a North Korean nuclear bomb. Bush knows that in the event that Iran does acquire WMD, he will not be able to invade and install a puppet regime that will reverse the Iranian decision to sell its oil for Rial and Euro, just as he did in Iraq.
What worries me is that if this situation is allowed to continue, with the White House gang of neocons trying to bully the rest of the world, that they might really precipitate a much larger conflagration than merely invading a nation like Iraq. Heck, the USA can’t even get control over a bunch of rag-tag insurgents in Iraq with 130,000 troops on the ground, so how the hell are they going to handle Iran, which does not hate its leadership and is three times the size of Iraq, all at the same time as US forces are getting a drubbing in Iraq? It’s lunacy.
It’s got to the stage where the American people probably need to grab Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld and hang them from lamp-posts, like the Italians did to Mussolini. Better still, send Dubya and Rummy on a hunting trip with Dick.
November 19th, 2006 at 8:42 pmFrom TP a few days ago:
“Iran’s president declared yesterday that his country’s nuclear program was nearing an important milestone,†the NYT reports, “even as international atomic inspectors reported that they had found unexplained traces of plutonium and that Tehran continued to be so uncooperative in answering questions that they had been unable to confirm earlier claims of progress.â€
Wasn’t this type of news one of the reasons for high gas prices a few months ago? And yet this comes out, and gas prices stay relatively stable?
It’s running as low as $2.09 here in NE TN.
November 19th, 2006 at 9:06 pmI pray the intelligence agencies put an end to Bush-Cheney stovepiping. Hopefully, with the help of the Democratic controlled house and senate, this deception can be suffocated and buried. We do not need to invade Iran. We need to include Iran in the diplomatic talks reagarding the restoration of Iraq.
November 19th, 2006 at 9:07 pmNice one, Jigga, it shows your complete and utter lack of knowledge and exposes your bias against the truth.
Of all the people to accuse of being “Islamic-loving”, you really had to pick a Jewish guy to aim at…….hahaha. What a moron you are.
Seymour Hersh would be the last person on earth to support Islam, Iraq or Iran, however his job is to report the truth and this is what he does best and this is why he has such credibility.
For the record, just before Jigga launches his expected diatribe against me and accuses me of also being an Islamic-lover, the fact is that I hate all religions with a passion, being a dedicated Atheist, however I have a special hatred for that evil quasi-political movement called Islam. My personal blog at has more than ample evidence to expose the vile doctrine of Islam, however I imagine that Jigga will ignore this as well.
My dislike of Islam does not extend to me ignoring the truth about the White House or the fact that Iran has a legal right under the NPT to possess the complete nuclear enrichment cycle. Right now, Brazil is enriching uranium to above civilian use levels, is preventing the IAEA from making full inspections and is a lot less transparent about its nuclear program than Iran, yet there has not been one peep out of the White House or the UNSC.
If international law is allowed to be applied selectively, then it is worthless. If Iran is to be dealt with by the UNSC for lack of transparency of its nuclear program, when Brazil is far more intransigent about allowing IAEA inspections, then there is something wrong. Either every nation has the same legal rights or the whole concept of international law is defunct and every treaty should be torn up immediately, starting off with the NPT.
Also, before somebody gets it into their heads to state that Iran is a state sponsor of international terrorism, maybe they are, but I would remind them to think of that old saying about the pot calling the kettle black.
Before ripping my head of with criticism, they should examine the litany of transgressions of the USA, which has spent at least the past 70 years deposing elected governments, waging war against sovereign nations without any legal reason, funding insurgents to depose elected governments and interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign nations by trying to impose “regime change”.
I wonder what the White House would think if a nation allocated $75 million to foment “regime change” on the USA, just as the USA allocated that amount to foment “regime change” in Iran, a blatant intrusion into the affairs of a sovereign nation?
Which nation has committed more acts of international terrorism in the past 70 years? It wasn’t Iraq or Iran. The evidence is there to see.
November 19th, 2006 at 9:14 pm#77, Marie: Bush has been their puppet from day one, the monkey to put up front to read their scripts (albeit poorly), while they continue to strategize their self-serving, diabolical actions.
I agree 100%.
As you probably know, candidate Bush in 1999 spoke of a `humble foreign policy’ and of the need for bringing home troops from overseas. He repudiated `nation building’. He said that he would employ troops only when an `exit strategy’ was in place.
The old school Neocons then got Bush to flipflop.
His gross inability to articulate his own namesake doctrine was most telling: He was like a lazy and confused school boy trying to imitate the polished school master.
November 19th, 2006 at 9:34 pm72, Ziggy; 80, Marie
From the James Baker Inst, 2001:
Strategic Energy Policy Challenges for the 21st Century
[snip]
Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to U.S. allies in the Middle East,as well as to regional and global order,and to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East.
Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets.
This would display his personal power, enhance his image as a “Pan-Arab†leader supporting the Palestinians against Israel,and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime.
The United States should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq,including military,energy,economic,and political/diplomatic assessments.
November 19th, 2006 at 9:50 pmThat’s all.
Comment by goodscarrier
The only thing you come up in your boring posts are ranting about Al-Dawa stuff. Get another book.
November 19th, 2006 at 9:52 pmHersh:
“Iran is emerging as a dominant power in the Middle East,†I was told by a Middle East expert and former senior Administration official.
“With a nuclear program, and an ability to interfere throughout the region, it’s basically calling the shots. Why should they coöperate with us over Iraq?â€
He recounted a recent meeting with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who challenged Bush’s right to tell Iran that it could not enrich uranium. “Why doesn’t America stop enriching uranium?†the Iranian President asked.
He laughed, and added, “We’ll enrich it for you and sell it to you at a fifty-per-cent discount.â€
November 19th, 2006 at 10:11 pmThe truth is that Bush did not lie or was misled in the Iraq war. He knew what he was doing. I believe that the White House has enough intelligent people who evaluate all different war games scenarios and their outcomes before engaging into one. Then the question is what went wrong? Nothing, nothing at all. The situation in Iraq was already an outcome of one of the pre-war scenarios and this administration knew how to deal with it (in terms of individuals profiting from it). One might ask what is in it for the rest of us. The answer again is nothing, but oil corporations and military industries( Bush family and friends) made historical record breaking profit. Also in the process they created a first invisible enemy ( the so called terorrists) that we and rest of the world have to pay the millitary industry to defend ourselves for years to come.
November 19th, 2006 at 11:42 pm[…] Seymour Hersh’s latest ponders the question (as he does on CNN.) […]
November 19th, 2006 at 11:54 pmNice writing Ziggy. I agree with the ultimate assessment as to the true motivation of why we invaded Iraq. Sad that our leaders couldn’t be honest about the real underpinnings of this decision. I guess the next question would have been: how did we get here? And no one wanted to explain the 30 year answer. The fact is that Reagan/Bush made a decision in 1980 to shitcan the Dept. Of Energy and do cheap oil with the princes of the ME. That kept Poppy and his friends happy in Houston. It made a lot of money for a lot of people connected with the Republican Party. Too bad for the rest of us that we didn’t invest in alternative/renewable energy technologies and conservation strategies as Carter started when the first OPEC oil shocks hit us. Instead, we got “Morning In America”….now the bill’s come due and we, as dependent as we’ve always been on ME Oil, are seeing the “Twilight in America” pass. Is it ironic that Bush I started the treason and Bush II is finishing it?
BTW, Bush has pretty much broken the Army…if he tries an air attack on Iran, I won’t be shocked to see the Navy broken in the Persian Gulf. I have no confidence that this dimwit is even capable of understanding the stakes and forces aligned against us. Maybe his buddy Jesus can explain it to him.
November 20th, 2006 at 2:02 am“On CNN, New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh reported that a new CIA assessment concludes that “there’s no evidence Iran is doing anything that puts them close to a bomb.— Faiz
*******An the CIA is getting it’s info from….the IAEA….President Achminijead……The Mullahs????
Let me get this straight - TP and the conspiracy Progs/Progettes suddenly believe the CIA to be credible???? SEEmore Hersch and his leftard cronies are working tirelessly for an American downfall so we can all be a bunch of OneWorlders united under the ineffective, corrupt flag of the UN.
So SEEmore, we should let them get really, really, really to having a bomb…..and then do what? Send Al Gore and John Kerry over to BORE them to death?? Whew, it is going to be fun having Dems in charge again!
Good night…….
November 20th, 2006 at 2:19 amIf things were going the way they should be going the word neo-”con” should get a whole new meaning. I’d suggest to rename Airforce One into Con-Air 1 as well.
I still refuse to believe that it’s possible to get another military adventure started. I wish to believe that in 2008 it will be over, like all bad dreams are over when you finally wake up.
November 20th, 2006 at 2:54 amAphrodite, the USA does not actually have any legal right to deny any nation from getting nuclear weapons and I simply cannot see why the Americans actually think that they have the right to dictate to any other nation what they should and should not be doing. As far as nuclear weapons go, the body in charge of that is the IAEA, not the USA.
There is a global legal mechanism called international law, which most nations, with the notable exception of the USA, adhere to. There are many international treaties, which most nations, with the notable exception of the USA, adhere to.
The USA demands that all other nations stick to the letter of the law when it comes to observing treaties, however the USA did not think anything of abrogating the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, but complained bitterly when North Korea did much the same thing and withdrew from the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, something that North Korea had a right to do.
The USA Congress has just approved the transfer of nuclear assistance and technology to India, a rogue nuclear power that is not a signatory to the NPT. This action by the USA completely violates its obligations to the NPT, IAEA and international law. But on the other hand, the USA demands that Iran ceases nuclear research and enrichment, something Iran has a perfectly legal right to do under the NPT.
Recently, North Korea test-fired some ballistic missiles and there were all sorts of dire threats from the White House, amid rumblings of war, regime change and other such nonsense. But the previous day, India, the rogue nuclear state, test-fired a ballistic missile with a range of 3500km and there was not one little peep out of the White House. In fact India test-fired another missile today and the silence from the White House is deafening.
I previously mentioned in this forum Brazil and its locking out of IAEA inspectors from its nuclear program and the lack of condemnation from the USA, as opposed to the warmongering belligerence the USA is heaping on Iran, whose nuclear program is far more transparent, not to mention perfectly legal.
Can you not see the amazing hypocrisy in this? Can you not understand why there is so much anti-Americanism on the planet, when the USA just selectively targets certain nations and totally ignores other nations conducting the same activity?
The USA needs to completely rethink its global strategy and revert to a policy of semi-isolationism, in other words, a policy of “We are going to mind our own business and not interfere in the internal affairs of any other nation.”
The best friends are those that do not impinge on your hospitality but who are there by invitation. The USA does not have the right to try and deny other nations anything whatsoever, including nuclear weapons and the USA does not have the right to try to impose regime change or anything else on sovereign nations.
I have been to the USA at least eight times and find the Americans to be amazingly hospitable and just terrific people. However the US foreign policy is abominable, akin to being the bully-boy of the planet and if the Americans want to stave off disaster and not be hated to the extent that people want to ram aircraft into buildings, then the entire US global policy has to change completely.
November 20th, 2006 at 4:08 amTehran Times Political Desk
TEHRAN - The Majlis gave a strong endorsement to a proposal for an investigation of the process of the rulings on Iran-U.S. claims in The Hague here on Sunday.
Some 122 MPs voted for the bill, 18 voted against, and 10 abstained.
Majlis National Security and Foreign Policy Committee rapporteur Kazem Jalali said that the proposal had been approved by his committee and gave a report on the process of the rulings on Iran-U.S. legal disputes at The Hague since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
He said that after the Algeria Accord of 1981, a special court in The Hague with three judges from Iran, three judges from the United States, and three judges from other countries was designated as the venue for adjudicating Iran-U.S. legal disputes.
Unfortunately, over the past twenty years there have been many deficiencies in the investigations of cases, and the public must be informed of the deficiencies, he said.
“More than ninety percent of the U.S. claims have been addressed and resolved, but Iran’s claims have not been settled, although Iran pays fifty percent of The Hague court’s costs,†the lawmaker noted.
“It should be determined what has happened to the ten billion dollars that the U.S. owes us and why the claim has not been resolved yet,†Jalali added.
Majlis also on Sunday ratified a bill according to which the government must take the fingerprints of all U.S. citizens entering the country at Iranian border checkpoints.
The bill was passed with 135 votes in favor, 29 no votes, and 10 abstentions.
“All U.S. citizens should be controlled and subjected to digital fingerprinting when they are issued with a visa and when they enter Iran,” according to the bill, adopted after a debate.
“This law comes in response to the American practice of taking digital fingerprints of sportsmen, political officials and other Iranians, sometimes with an insulting attitude,” MP Kazem Jalali said during the debate.
Until now, only U.S. journalists have been subjected to digital fingerprinting on arrival in Tehran.
BACKFIRE HA HA HA
November 20th, 2006 at 5:47 amWho’s Against a Ban on
Fissile Material?
by Michael Carmichael
In 2005, Mohamed ElBaradei was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his outstanding work in the international control of nuclear weapons. In 2003, ElBaradei had proposed a verifiable ban on the production of weapons-grade fissile material – a positive move that would severely limit the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
In a vote of the Disarmament Committee of the United Nations (UN), one and only one nation voted against ElBaradei’s proposal – George Bush’s America. In that same vote, Israel abstained, apparently fearing international interference with their own outlaw nuclear weapons program, and Britain abstained in an act of diplomatic fealty to the “special relationship” between Tony Blair and George Bush. The final tally was 147 nations to one with the two abstentions. In a later vote of the entire UN General Assembly, Israel and Britain abstained, while America and Palau voted against ElBaradei’s verifiable ban on fission, and 179 nations voted in favor of his proposal. The final vote on that occasion was 179 in favor, two opposed (U.S. and Palau), and two abstentions (Israel and Britain).
ElBaradei’s proposal would monitor all nuclear fission and guarantee that non-nuclear weapons states would be able to obtain adequate supplies for their nonmilitary usage of enriched plutonium.
One nation has publicly accepted ElBaradei’s proposal: Iran.
November 20th, 2006 at 5:50 amHersh reports that the White House is still aggressively moving ahead with preparations for a military conflict with Iran.
Wasn’t it like 2 years ago that Hersh was reporting that the war was already underway ?
Why don’t you tell us what Judith Miller has to say in regard to the possibility of this WMD threat if reporters who have already discredited themselves long ago isn’t a problem for you.
After all she only got the existance of WMDs in Iraq wrong. Hersh makes her look like a quitter when it comes to publishing fiction.
November 20th, 2006 at 5:58 amOne nation has publicly accepted ElBaradei’s proposal: Iran.
Comment by Tobey Tall — November 20, 2006 @ 5:50 am
Apparently you believe this counts for something.
Offhand I can’t think of a nation with a covert nuclear enrichment program which hasn’t done so in violation of their agreements not to.
In any event the US has publically accepted binding international agreements not to torture prisoners of war. That’ll be just as meaningful if you bold it as well.
November 20th, 2006 at 6:06 amTank your missing the point : spin doctor
99 - In 2005, Mohamed ElBaradei was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his outstanding work in the international control of nuclear weapons. In 2003, ElBaradei had proposed a verifiable ban on the production of weapons-grade fissile material – a positive move that would severely limit the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
In a vote of the Disarmament Committee of the United Nations (UN), one and only one nation voted against ElBaradei’s proposal – George Bush’s America.
we would be in a nuclear weapons free zone - If it were not for one nation voted against ElBaradei’s proposal – George Bush’s America.
……… Ask yourself WHY
November 20th, 2006 at 8:04 amThis caught my eye….
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t instructions for making “a trigger for a bomb” among the stuff that was disclosed in the untranslated Iraq documents that were put up on the internet, and recently taken down?
November 20th, 2006 at 9:09 am[…] CIA and Iran: a repeat of Iraq WMD lies? […]
November 20th, 2006 at 9:26 am[…] How Think Progress headlines the same interview is interesting: Hersh: Bush, Cheney Stovepiping Intelligence On Iran, Hiding Information From CIA […]
November 20th, 2006 at 11:19 am[…] The Israelis are telling the White House, according to Hersh’s new article “The Next Act,†that they have a reliable agent inside Iran who reports that the nation is working on a trigger for a bomb. “Of course the people in the CIA want to know who [the agent] is, obviously,†Hersh said. “They certainly want to know what other evidence he has of actual making of a warhead. This is the internecine fight that’s going on — the same fight, by the way, that we had before Iraq.” Full Story […]
November 20th, 2006 at 11:51 am[…] The Israelis are telling the White House, according to Hersh’s new article “The Next Act,†that they have a reliable agent inside Iran who reports that the nation is working on a trigger for a bomb. “Of course the people in the CIA want to know who [the agent] is, obviously,†Hersh said. “They certainly want to know what other evidence he has of actual making of a warhead. This is the internecine fight that’s going on — the same fight, by the way, that we had before Iraq.” Full Story […]
November 20th, 2006 at 11:53 am[…] On CNN yesterday, New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh reported that a new CIA assessment concludes that “there’s no evidence Iran is doing anything that puts them close to a bomb.” Despite the intelligence agency’s conclusion, Hersh reports that the White House is still aggressively moving ahead with preparations for a military conflict with Iran. […]
November 20th, 2006 at 12:19 pmISRAELI SNIPERS KILL US TROOPS IN IRAQ:
http://joannafrancis.wordpress.com/ 2006/ 11/ 10/ israeli-snipers-killi…
Proof: At the very beginning of this video clip, you see a rifle with a video camera attached to it. This weapon is made by the Rafael company, an Israeli arms manufacturer, that also makes IEDs. If you watch the video all the way through, it explains how this rifle works. CNN stated that the camera used to film these shootings was not a mounted rifle camera. But as you watch the video, you see that with each shot fired, the camera recoils. That would only happen if it were mounted on the rifle. Why is this significant? Because this kind of rifle-camera is extremely sophisticated and not available to your average Iraqi insurgent. I mean, it’s not exactly an easily obtainable Saturday night special! Something this sophisticated points to Mossad.
Mossad is a master at false flag operations, e.g., Oklahoma City, the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, the July 7, 2005 London bombings, the 9-11 attacks in New York, the assassination of the Prime Minister in Beirut, the stoking of Muslim riots in France last year, the bombing of the Hassan al-Askari Mosque in Samarra, Iraq, etc.
Israelis freely move among US and UK troops in Iraq, and have access to top-level US intelligence. Until July 2003, the head of all US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan was General Tommy Franks, a Zionist Jew. (He is now on the board of directors for Bank of America.) On November 7, 2006 another Zionist Jew became a principle liaison between Mossad and US forces in Iraq: Major General Richard F. Natonski of the Marine Corps. His title is Deputy Commandant for Plans, Policies and Operations.
Because of this access, the “insurgents” (i.e., Mossad agents) know exactly where US vehicles will be and who will be inside them. This allows them to target for maximum false flag effect.
November 20th, 2006 at 1:46 pm“There is a global legal mechanism called international law, which most nations, with the notable exception of the USA, adhere to. There are many international treaties, which most nations, with the notable exception of the USA, adhere to. Comment by Ziggy
********Dear Ziggy - Thank you for the recap. The next time your “mamby pamby” country is in trouble due to natural disaster or international enemies, please ask someone else to bail you out. (Do you think radical Muslims are out to make friends with the West and Israel? Grow up!) The naivete you display is reminiscent of the Chamberlain appeaser crowd and the despicable, cowardly Vichy French ….
November 20th, 2006 at 4:56 pm” This is the internecine fight that’s going on — the same fight, by the way, that we had before Iraq.”
>>>>>>>>limited hangouts
We’re seeing the not-so-Strange-Love faction of the oligarchy struggling to rein in the madmen. This game is more dangerous than any corporate media will acknowledge.
If WMD go off anywhere in the world, don’t look to the cave, the laptop, bin Laden; don’t look to the Axis of Evil. Look to Cheney and Cheney’s handlers.
November 20th, 2006 at 5:18 pmI’ve got schematics here on how to construct a thermonuclear device. It doesn’t mean that I am in the process of building an atomic bomb. I have also looked at the Anarchist’s Handbook on the Internet, but I’m no terrorist.
Just because somebody acquires knowledge does not mean that they are going to employ it.
November 20th, 2006 at 6:12 pmAphrodite, believe me, most people in Australia do not look towards the USA for assistance. We remember how the USA sold Taiwan down the river when the communist Chinese waved the prospect of extended trade with the USA in return for excluding TaI
November 20th, 2006 at 6:16 pmAphrodite, believe me, most people in Australia do not look towards the USA for assistance. We remember how the USA sold its friend Taiwan down the river when the communist Chinese waved the prospect of extended trade with the USA in return for excluding Taiwan from membership of the UN.
Australia generally gives assistance to many nations and gets very little if any in return, however we stand by our friends because we are loyal and we don’t change our allegiances because of the almighty dollar.
November 20th, 2006 at 6:19 pmThe Australian people were smart enough to elect Prime Minister Howard - why do I suspect you did not vote for him….hmmmm. Tell you what - you go right on trusting Iran - after all, you are just a hop, skip and plop away from them…I would as soon trust a failed, meglomaniacal Austrian paper-hanger as I would Achmidinejead and his band of radical mullahs….
November 20th, 2006 at 6:26 pmI have read some crap in my time, but the above pile of steaming horseshit takes the cake. So this person is saying that Mossad is responsible for literally every terrorist act and atrocity committed in the past ten years.
Normally I would not even lower myself to respond to such a completely moronic premise but I couldn’t resist on this occasion.
There is not one shred of evidence to support the involvement of Israel in any of these atrocities. Mossad may be the smartest and best intelligence service in the world, but there is no way known that they could false-flag this entire series of terrorist acts and keep it completely buried.
When one reads the entire article from which this tripe was extracted, one can immediately see that it is nothing more than anti-Zionist propaganda without any credibility. I bet that the author still thinks that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are really true.
November 20th, 2006 at 6:32 pmActually I did vote for John Howard and the Australian Liberal Party at every election. I’ve been a little right of centre all my life. That does not mean that I support everything Howard does. I didn’t support Howard sending Australian soldiers to Iraq, simply because I could see that the Iraq invasion was both illegal and immoral because it was based on a pack of lies.
I also voted for the Liberal Party in the 1960s, even though I did not support their decision to send Australian soldiers to Vietnam because I knew that this war was immoral and wrong. I have been proven correct regarding both Vietnam and Iraq.
Personally, I don’t trust Iran, I detest that quasi-political so-called religion of hate that is Islam and I think that Ahmedinejad is a mad dog and the quicker he is gotten rid of, the better. However, getting rid of Ahmedinejad is a job for the Iranian people, not the USA. Unless Iran or Ahmedinejad commit an act of aggression outside the borders of Iran, that is not the business of the USA or Australia.
Whether you trust Ahmedinejad or not, the situation is that under the NPT, Iran has a legal right to possess the full nuclear cycle. That’s it. Unless the NPT is scrapped by consent, every country in the world has the right to the full nuclear cycle. You cannot have a situation where one country, such as Brazil, can freely develop nuclear technology and on the other hand, a nation such as Iran is prevented from doing the same, even though it has that right.
My whole point is that the USA cannot continue to dictate rules and terms to the rest of the world. The world already has rules and they are called international laws and treaties. The USA is free to impose economic sanctions on Iran and this has been occurring for decades now.
This is fine by me - we all have the right not to do business with people we dislike. But we don’t have the right to tell them what they can do or what they cannot do within their borders. I bet you would scream blue murder if I marched up to your door, confronted you and told you that you couldn’t watch a certain program on the TV. I would not have the right to do that. Likewise, the USA does not have the right to tell Iran which leader it can have or whether it can develop nuclear power or not.
I keep labouring this legal principle, but if we don’t have laws, we have anarchy. Right now the USA is trying to dictate to the rest of the world while ignoring its own legal obligations. For instance, the USA has completely ignored its obligations under the NPT, but wants Iran to comply with it. No wonder Iran is intransigent and I don’t blame them. And no wonder the USA is detested for its domineering and hypocritical attitude towards the rest of the world.
November 20th, 2006 at 7:26 pmBush has lost his majority for war. By a large margin. That’s important. It’s not coming back because of any shaky intelligence, whether the CIA blesses it or not. This is politics. Bush will talk big on Iran and may decide to launch a few punitive bombing sorties (a la Clinton in Sudan) but he won’t invade because (a) THERE ARE NO MORE TROOPS and (b) the Congress has to declare that kind of war. They passed legislation to punt that decision to Bush on Iraq on a one-time basis. Many many democrats regret it. They won’t do it again. Not with Bush in charge. Even if a Democrat in Congress honestly believed that invading Iran is just and in the national interest (ha), it is now politically impossible for them to vote for giving THIS president the authority to do so. Maybe the next president. The only way there will be a war with Iran within the next two years is if there is another major terrorist attack that kills a lot of Americans and shifts the whole public opinion and congressional climate back to the commingled abject fear and willful stupidity (because understanding the enemy is for “traitors”) we had in the first couple of years after 9/11.
November 20th, 2006 at 7:50 pmSo if Bush actually does launch strikes on Iran, will Iran’s response be considered in the same vein? If Iran then sends one of its submarines off the coast of the USA and destroys half of Manhattan, or turns Norfolk Navy Yard into an inferno, would this not merely be the same situation?
The problem is that the USA has been doing this for years, firing cruise missiles without provocation at other nations (Sudan) being one, but only ever experiencing one act of aggression upon American soil, that is of course the destruction of the World Trade Centre - and look what trauma that caused to the American psyche.
I really worry about this, because I think there will come the time when nations or groups decide that for every act of American unprovoked aggression, they will mount retaliatory attacks on Americans in their own backyards, not just attacks against US navy ships in Yemen or embassies in foreign nations.
The USA cannot complain if it bombs another country and that country bombs the USA in retaliation. The method of delivery is immaterial. The USA has cruise missiles, other nations have tankers laden with high explosive or people on the ground in the USA to carry out attacks, but the effect will be the same, a massive loss of life.
American really needs to think long and hard before it launches unprovoked assaults on other nations because the response may be too high a price to pay. I cannot imagine that Iran will not respond to an attack by the USA.
November 20th, 2006 at 8:12 pmIf Israel was really just looking out for the “best interest” of the United States then why doesn’t Israel allow the CIA to see this “evidence” they have or is this just going to turn out like the “evidence” from Curve Ball?
November 20th, 2006 at 9:57 pmISRAELI SNIPERS KILL US TROOPS IN IRAQ:
Proof: At the very beginning of this video clip, you see a rifle with a video camera attached to it. This weapon is made by the Rafael company,
That isn’t an Israeli made rifle. Strike 1.
an Israeli arms manufacturer, that also makes IEDs.
An IED by definition is not made by an arms manufacturer. Strike 2.
If you watch the video all the way through, it explains how this rifle works. CNN stated that the camera used to film these shootings was not a mounted rifle camera. But as you watch the video, you see that with each shot fired, the camera recoils. That would only happen if it were mounted on the rifle. Why is this significant? Because this kind of rifle-camera is extremely sophisticated and not available to your average Iraqi insurgent.
Except for those insurgents who have been publishing the same videos of sniper activity taken with rifle-mounted cameras for about 3 years as part of their media releases. Strike 3.
I mean, it’s not exactly an easily obtainable Saturday night special! Something this sophisticated points to Mossad.
Comment by Share — November 20, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
There is no such thing as an electronics store which doesn’t stock portable video cameras. Insurgents are already employing a myriad of electronics devices in IED construction from mobile phones, wireless phones, pressure pads, motion sensors, and infra-red sensors, all of which are available by retail.
So you are saying that the insurgent groups known to use a lot of sophisticated electronics equipment publically available in electronics stores cannot be responsible for producing a sniper video which resembles all their other sniper videos because what ?
There’s no way they’d also buy from aisle 5 where the video equipment is ? That’s a Mossad-only area of the store ?
Hey who knows, maybe the Mossad has mind-controlled all the Iraqi store owners into only selling to them. After all, this would be a small feat after they somehow managed to convince all Iraqi and jihadist insurgent groups as well as the entire Arab world to never once express doubt as to the authenticity of these sniper videos they’ve been putting out for several years.
November 21st, 2006 at 2:19 amLucky we’ve got you on the ball there Adolf.
Further to my posting about the USA committing acts of war and interfering in the internal affairs