Hagel: ‘The Time For More Troops Is Past,’ McCain’s Plan Is ‘Not Realistic,’ ‘The Wrong Approach’
Hagel: ‘The Time For More Troops Is Past,’ McCain’s Plan Is ‘Not Realistic,’ ‘The Wrong Approach’
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), a prominent conservative member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said today on MSNBC that Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) plan to send 20,000 more troops to Iraq is “not realistic.”
“The time for more troops is past,” he said. “We don’t want to put more troops in now. Even if we had them, that’s the wrong approach.” Watch it:
Full transcript:
MITCHELL: Let’s talk a bit about some of the plans that the Pentagon is supposedly considering, first of all, sending 20,000 more troops into Iraq, a short-term surge, an effort to try to stabilize Baghdad. Is that realistic? And is that cover for more quickly phasing out and withdrawing?
HAGEL: Andrea, it is not realistic. General Abizaid noted that when he was here last week before the Senate Armed Services Committee. We don’t have the troops. That’s number one.
Number two, even if we did, it’s the wrong approach. The time for more troops is past.
We’ve been in Iraq now almost four years. We went in completely undermanned, under-managed. We didn’t understand what we were getting into. We didn’t have the plans. We should have gone in with three times the troops that we had.
Those days are over. We’re not going to recapture that and go back and unwind those bad decisions.
We don’t want to put more troops in now. Even if we had them, that’s the wrong approach.
There’s not going to be a military resolution that decides the outcome of Iraq. It will be a political solution. It will include the Iraqi people, countries like Iran, Syria, Jordan and other countries around it.
Our options there are very limited right now. I hope that the president will be able to use the Baker-Hamilton commission to build a new bipartisan foundation in order to start moving this country, the United States, out of Iraq.
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Hagel is all hat, no cattle when it comes to his criticisms of Bush and his fellow GOPers.
November 21st, 2006 at 12:57 pmRealScientist - To give Hagel some credit, he was speaking out about this almost a year ago, so we should cut him a LITTLE slack. Now, McCain…. that is a heifer of a different color!
November 21st, 2006 at 1:02 pmYou don’t reinforce failure.
Or troops need to leave ASAP.
November 21st, 2006 at 1:02 pm“We should have gone in with three times the troops that we had.” Like most conservatives, Hagel believes the wrong strategy was used instead of not seeing the elephant in the living room, which is that the invasion itself was the wrong decision to make. Now that the United States has illegally occupied Iraq, the main focus should be upon extricating those troops from Iraq as quickly and as speedily as possible.
November 21st, 2006 at 1:05 pmDavid Hume could out-consume
November 21st, 2006 at 1:08 pmSenator Chuck Hagel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.
You don’t reinforce failure.
But people keep on saying we should give public schools more money.
November 21st, 2006 at 1:11 pmKudos to Hagel:The time for more troops is past.McCain knows it and so he would later say that we did not use his plan hence the failure.
November 21st, 2006 at 1:12 pmLook, from day 1 we lost the war.anyone who have read Nir Rosen’s Bk would have realised by now that our policy was doomed.
I can’t see how Tommie Franks get afree pass.Rememebr he OKed the plan to go in with far fewer troops.
When they talk about sending another 20,000 troops into Iraq they never say what they are going to do. Nor the fact that the troop level has already been raised from 128,000 to 140,000. Did those 12,000 additional troops make a difference? None that I can see. Perhaps because our hands have been tied on what targets they can go after. Remember, only a few short days ago our troops got their butts kicked out of Sadr City when they were in hot pursuit for a captured American soldier.
It sounds all PR. They send in another 20,000 then declare mission accomplished and withdraw. Why not just bypass that first step?
November 21st, 2006 at 1:13 pmNo Republican that still has his / her job in DC will ever admit it was wrong to get involved in Iraq but it’s quite telling the divisive stances within the Republican party to have open dissent. The goon patrolls on this site were screaming how fractured the Dems were when the vote went to Steny instead of Murtha. That’s nothing compared to the eating of their own we are going to see about the Mess in Messopotamia.
November 21st, 2006 at 1:14 pmThere’s nothing Nietzsche couldn’t teach ‘ya ’bout the raising of the wrist.
November 21st, 2006 at 1:25 pmGeorge Bush, himself, was permanently pissed.
As a Vietnam combat survivor and invested observer of both of these cluster-f**ks, it is interesting that in both cases, most hard charging ChickenHawks were non-military men and women. Think there is any correlation here?
And I know that Hagel is a Vet as well, just too bad he didn’t see this one through those combat eyes, BEFORE we were duped in!
November 21st, 2006 at 1:27 pmI don’t care much for Hagel’s politics - but, dammit, why don’t the Democrats have anyone who can communicate as clearly and convincingly as he can? Watch out for Chuck in ‘08….
November 21st, 2006 at 1:29 pmPublic schools are failing because the money that is supposed to be going to them is going to the failure known as Iraq.
I would like to think that you aren’t as stupid as the other trolls here, let’s keep it that way.
November 21st, 2006 at 1:29 pmBut people keep on saying we should give public schools more money.
Comment by squegeeboo
Yeah, we should privatize everything. That will let out corruption and lazyness. *cough* Enron *cough*
November 21st, 2006 at 1:55 pmsquegeeboo (beelzebub?) provides a glaring and crystal clear illustration of why the USA is declining at such a rapid rate that a new system of measurement needs to be invented in order to accurately define the velocity.
Public schools - which provide a solid foundation for society by enriching both the individual and the community with core knowledge and enlightenment - are under funded, abused, and baselessly criticized. You mention “public education” amongst your elite (both parties) and you are most likely going to get a myriad of guffaws and harrumphs and other such examples of ignorant arrogance from their pickled minds.
Yet murderous crusades based on deception and greed, that horrifically murders hundreds of thousands of innocent children, women, and men, that come at a cost that is so astronomical that most standard calculators would not be able to accommodate the number, that the financial burden is so extreme that you have WILLINGLY placed a large part of it upon your children and grand children, these are accepted and even exploited by your business and governmental leaders.
One is an investment into a peaceful, enlightened, and compassionate future. The other is a fast track to total annihilation and involves fear, rage, abuse, rape and murder. Most kindergarteners would choose the former (I only say “most” because I assume that bush, cheney, and rumsfeld et al attended kindergarten), whereas most of your adult population have (although now backpedaling a little) chosen the latter.
And yet you have the audacity to label other civilizations as “barbaric” or “under-educated” or “backwards”. Only americans can be handed caviar on a silver platter, immediately and inexplicably turn it into a pile of maggots on a non-biodegradable plastic tray, and then turn around and blame the situation on their “friends”, neighbors, and relatives that they have been exploiting and abusing all along.
In a way I have no pity for you, as you are getting exactly what you deserve. My sympathy lay with those, with many amongst your own citizenry, who you have abused, ignored, and discarded. Those who squegeeboo preaches should not be “blessed” with a sophisticated education because it costs too much money. I find solace in the knowledge that the days are numbered for your “elites” and that soon, very soon, the tables will be turned.
Yet I also know that when the down trodden rise up and reclaim that which you have stolen from them, they will show you more compassion then you ever showed them. More compassion, I am certain, than you have ever even been capable of imagining.
Vengeance is for fools. After all, look at what it has gotten you.
Peace.
November 21st, 2006 at 2:12 pmFinally a Republican who has some common sense.
November 21st, 2006 at 2:20 pmIf you look at all the GOP names on the list of candidates,I think Hagel will be the best of them all,should he decides to run..but money, smearing, character assassinations and negative attacks is part of any winning and long campaign. Unless you are prepared for that…don’t even think.
November 21st, 2006 at 2:43 pmAh, the dueling limericks!
November 21st, 2006 at 3:04 pmI quote David Bowie, “Putting out fire, with gasoline.”
November 21st, 2006 at 3:32 pmSince McCain looks to be the ‘08 rethug candidate, let’s all get ready for the old flipflop tag to the pinned squarely on his foreheard. Those rethugs thought they were so clever calling Kerry a flipflopper; the rethugs thought they were oh so clever getting down on Clinton because he got a BJ from a fat broad — but look how they’ll pay for their self-righteous bullshit now. McCain has flipflopped on every issue, and we don’t even need to bring up the rethug sex scandals, there isn’t room enough here to write about them. Tsk tsk, rethugs, you’re paying now dearly for how you’ve treated America.
November 21st, 2006 at 3:58 pmSpudge
Public schools are failing because the money that is supposed to be going to them is going to the failure known as Iraq.
Public schools were failing before 2003, and they’ll be failing after we’ve left Iraq.
Juan
November 21st, 2006 at 4:37 pmThat will let out corruption and lazyness. *cough* Enron *cough*
Not corruption, but at least it’ll give us a chance to put some real accountability back into the system.
Nice herring, Squeegy! So shiny and red! Get back on topic.
November 21st, 2006 at 4:40 pmSKdeA
Nice herring, Squeegy! So shiny and red!
Plus, it can cut down the mightiest tree in the forest.
Humanist
November 21st, 2006 at 4:47 pmOne is an investment into a peaceful, enlightened, and compassionate future. The other is a fast track to total annihilation and involves fear, rage, abuse, rape and murder.
Well one involves an attempt to bring democracy to the middle east, and the removal of a brutal dictator, the other screws over inner-city kids and can be partially blamed, along with their parents and subculture, for the lower employement and literacy rates, and the higher crime rates. Sounds like this could go either way for which is which.
No shEt?
They have been failing since January 8, 2002 at 9:05 am EST.
That would be when George W Bush signed the attrocious No Child Left Behind Act.
Otherwise known as No CHild Left Behind is George W Bush’s Illegal War in Iraq Act.
Sorry, your red herring is lame. You can just admit it now.
November 21st, 2006 at 5:51 pmWell one involves an attempt to bring democracy to the middle east, and the removal of a brutal dictator
Comment by squegeeboo
Hey, squeegee, I think Bush just got back to the WMD´s and 9/11 excuses to bomb a little country…oh, wait, no, you are correct, those are the actual excuses so far…
November 21st, 2006 at 5:51 pmbut at least it’ll give us a chance to put some real accountability back into the system.
Comment by squegeeboo
Why do you hate so much democracy, squeegee? Did you know that privatizing means NO PUBLIC SCRUTINY? What kind of accountability did you mean? The ones the directors shows for company owners? If a private company takes over you or the people wont see any accountability. Or do you know exactly whats going on into Wal-Mart stock operations? I guess you dont.
November 21st, 2006 at 6:06 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ckKkQq_eQ
Watch CAP’s PJ Crowley share his thoughts on Go Big Go LOng or Go Home on YouTube
November 21st, 2006 at 6:08 pmPrivatization means just that. Making something private.
November 21st, 2006 at 6:20 pmBlah, blah, blah…
When it comes down to it, Sen Hagel votes the party line.
*yawn*
November 21st, 2006 at 7:06 pmbeelzebub (aka squegeeboo, squeegie),
Just to make certain that I understand you completely, your post #23 says the following to me:
According to you, the plan for Iraq is to build a nation and for that nation to be a democracy. Here is the definition of “Democracy”:
a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
Now, the Iraqi people tell you to leave, through their voice and other methods, and you say “we can’t leave because we’re not done yet and we’re going to send in more murderers, rapists, and incompetents (yes, they are incompetents because your military is NOT trained or designed for “nation building”) against your will.” You illustrate two things here. 1) You have absolutely no idea what a democracy is, and 2) You are engaging in deceit.
Also, it is interesting that you blame the teachers, students, and the parents for the problems at some public schools and their surrounding communities. That’s like blaming the patrons and the staff for a restaurant that serves crap for food. What, you think the owner has nothing to do with it? In the case of public schools, the owner is the public but the administration is left in the care of the government. A government that would rather kill and destroy than perform its duties regarding education. A government that would rather murder and rape than it would live up to its obligations in protecting and helping and ENTIRE city (I see that you have forgotten about all them dark folks down in New Orleans already) in its most desperate hour.
I can see that you received one of those coveted educations that you want to deny to everyone except the super rich. In fact, I would be willing to bet that you went to Yale. I suspect this because outside those ivy covered brick walls the rest of the world knows of Yale as the “Oxford for Idiots”. I hope that trust fund works out for you because you would starve if you were left to fend for yourself. Dolt.
May peace be with us all.
November 21st, 2006 at 7:23 pmI may think that Hagel is a more reasonable Republican, but in the end, he is still a Republican, and say what he might to the cameras, when it comes to aye or nay, he will go with Bush.
November 21st, 2006 at 7:36 pmThese guys are trying to sway Bush&Co as well as hoping their constituencies will appreciate their efforts, but what they say and what they do are usually not in agreement.
I would be willing to bet that you went to Yale. I suspect this because outside those ivy covered brick walls the rest of the world knows of Yale as the “Oxford for Idiotsâ€. Dolt.
Squegee Yale, LOL
I hope that trust fund works out for you because you would starve if you were left to fend for yourself.
Squegee Trust fund LOL
Actually Squegee is like me, Lower middle class. Working 40-50 hours a week. Sometimes pick up a second job to “catch up” or “Save for something nice”. Not wanting some rich yahoo to give me money for anything or pay my way. Because then I owe them and I would prefer not to do that.
I pay for myself and mine, telling me to pay for you as well is a sham. Raise taxes because we have no idea how to run a country on 30% of what the population makes.
November 21st, 2006 at 9:03 pmYeah, let’s just talk about this stuff endlessly on t.v. and do nothing. I’m sooo tired of these people.
More troops.
No, less troops.
I’m right.
No, I’m right.
They need to get their heads out of their bloody asses and do something now.
Congress fiddles as Iraq burns.
People are dying.
November 22nd, 2006 at 12:35 amEven though four star General Eric Shinseki testified before congress that we would need between 300,000 and 400,000 troops in Iraq in order to put down any resistance and restore order, that would not have made much difference in the outcome. Of course Shinseki was ignored anyway and he was eventually forced to retire.
The real problem was that nobody had a clue how to manage a country of deep sectarian divisions as well as how to control massive corruption in the entire Iraqi government.
Militarily, Iraq was a cakewalk for Bush since the Iraqis had no military to begin with. They had no navy, didn’t send up a single fighter aircraft, didn’t launch a single missile and most of the conscripts were ill-trained, under-equipped and totally lacking in disciplined fighting forces. In truth, the Boy Scouts could have marched into Baghdad and the results would not have been much different.
Now, as Chuck Hagel stated, it’s too late for military solutions and it’s too late to add more troops than we already have there. Call it a civil war or whatever, but the violence today is rampant throughout the entire country, not isolated to Baghdad as some Bush cheerleaders are falsely saying. Bush policies are so backward-thinking that they’re now belatedly training military to train the Iraqis to fight the insurgents. Insurgents isn’t even the right word — they are more like street gangs and criminals, many of them young, unemployed kids recruited by terrorist cells who send them out to loot, steal and kill anyone, friend or foe, with the sole purpose of getting control of the major source of wealth in Iraq — oil.
Bush is a lame duck. His once haughty Republican-controlled congress is now in the minority. Most of the Arab world now hates the United States and in particular, G. W. Bush. Six years ago 75% of the Indonesians had a positive view of the United States. Today, under the regime of G. W. Bush, that has now fallen to 30%.
The Iraq War is Bush’s war, not America’s. Yet in 6 years Bush has squandered all the good will and cooperation that we once enjoyed, even among once-friendly countries in Europe. Bush’s legacy is one grounded on fear, alarm, violence, threats and war. The latter, war, is Bush’s elixir. He thrives on division, spreading of hatreds worldwide and parades around acting as if he was God Almighty.
Our nation has suffered irreparable damage to our honor and prestige. G. W. Bush is a national disgrace and a blight on the freedom-loving citizens of our country who finally took the necessary steps at the polls in November to check this out-of-control petty little tyrant. “Mene, mene…” The message is clear: The Bush regime has been judged, and it’s finished.
November 22nd, 2006 at 2:25 amHagel is absolutely right– and, it’s too bad he doesn’t support Rangel’s call for a draft!
Let the brats of the neo-con war-mongers- the war-cheerleaders- and, the bums who got us into this bloody nightmare go fight in Iraq. Instead of the poor- the desperate- and/or the not terribly bright– how many rich kids are going to Iraq?
The Bush twins are party-party-party whilst others die in their imbecilic Poppy’s catastrophic fiasco! That’s a tragedy!
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:40 amMcCain’s still looking for a war he can win. In the process, he’ll only get more of our troops killed. At least someone has some sense. Hagel’s right. No moe troops but if he was serious and if the dems are serious about ending this calamity, all funding for the war would be cut off and immediately. Some would say that would put our troops in more jeopardy and of course the military is against it, but sometimes you just have to use a little tough love with the military when they don’t know what’s good for them. After all, this is the same military that botched this war from day one. Cutting funding for the war would save American lives and not waste them as Bush has done and continues to do.
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:01 amSome of OUR troops are on their FIFTH TOUR OF DUTY. Beyond Shame. Bush is deliberately trying to destroy our military and our safety for the New World Order and for the North American Union and to destroy US soveriegnty. BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!!
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:52 amWhat really happened in the Camp Falcon Explosions?
http://schema-root.org/ region/ middle_east/ iraq/ coalition_forces/ united_states/ u.s._bases/ camp_falcon/
http://www.shoutwire.com/ comments/ 35361/ Forward_Base_Falcon_Disaster
Forward Base Falcon Disaster
Over 300 American troops, including U.S. Army and Marines, CIA agents, U.S. translators and contractors were killed or injured outright or died immediately afterwards en route to hospital or in hospital and over 125 seriously injured, requiring major medical attention and 39 suffering lesser injuries By accounts, charred and totally unrecognizable fragments of personnel were scattered over an eight block area.
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:54 am“RealScientist” is unaware that Hagel has been outspoken against the Bsh administraion on Iraq from the beginning. I don’t know where he stands on other issues but he’s been good on Iraq.
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:55 amOut! Now!
November 22nd, 2006 at 8:01 amIt is scary when the prime minister of Israel states that they will attack
November 22nd, 2006 at 8:12 amand bomb Iran, but America would have to finish the job and clean up.
We can’t let any country, including Israel, make a determination of when
we go to war!
THE US AMRY IS A SACRIFICIAL LAMB TO ZIONIST ISRAEL !
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:02 amHagel is a duplicitous fool who only makes timed comments intended to gain publicity for his presidential ambitions. He’s far from the heroic man of his youth.
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:15 amDespite everybody saying what a disaster Iraq is (and it IS a disaster) the neocons secretly consider it a success, because they met their number one priority: they have 4 permanent superbases in another foreign country.
Look at history….are we still in Japan? Korea? Vietnam? Kosovo? Yep…and we’ll be in Iraq long after the MSM tells us “troops come home!”
http://joecrubaugh.com/ blog/ 2006/ 11/ 20/ iraq-were-here-to-stay/
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:38 am#
I quote David Bowie, “Putting out fire, with gasoline.â€
Comment by Xenon — November 21, 2006 @ 3:32 pm
In hind sight it looks like Neil Young exhibited remarkable prescience when he described the newly elected Bush and his administration as the “baby with a bomb.”
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:40 am[…] Sen. Chuck Rangel (R-NE) - a conservative, no less - says McCain’s plan to send more troops to Iraq is ‘not realistic’. ThinkProgress has video and a transcript of Andrea Mitchell’s interview. […]
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:40 amIf we Cut & Run, they will follow to the United States of America.
When Iran gets its Atom Bomb and a 200 mile Missile, it can sit offshore and kill 70% of the population.
Iraq needs to be cleaned up with a Bagdad Cordon, a progressive House to House Search, Confiscating all firearms, explosives and other contraband.
Install a Dusk to Dawn Curfew, Road Blocks, Check Points and shoot anyone out at night or who won’t answer the door.
The troops should answer with knocking down the door and grenades.
There must be Victory in Iraq or you all can kiss your life good bye.
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:54 amI didn’t see the “interview” with Chuck Hagel (RINO, France), but I am certain that dingbat Andrea Mitchell had multiple orgasms over Hagel’s “wisdom”.
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:57 amChuck has it nailed and he’s almost politically correct about it! I appreciate his speaking out as a Republican ’cause my major problem with Rs is that there always “on message”. “On Message” means they take their cues from the top (Cheney). It’s whatever C thinks today (sometimes Rove).
Good for Hagel. He’s showing courage, intelligence, and leadership… Something sorely missing from the current Cheney nightmare.
I can’t wait till Cheney’s administration finally leaves in ‘08.
November 22nd, 2006 at 10:55 amOnly the dead have seen the end of war. -Plato
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:00 amFace it, it’s over. Bush f*cked it up and it’s over. Those who are making a buck on it would like to spend some more taxpayer money but don’t really care if it results in victory. So it will go on for a while but we can’t win it now.
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:48 amYes, yes, yes, I agree whole heartedly with Sen. Hagel.
November 22nd, 2006 at 2:23 pmWe’ve been in Iraq now almost four years. We went in completely undermanned, under-managed. We didn’t understand what we were getting into. We didn’t have the plans. We should have gone in with three times the troops that we had.
[Mr. Rogers voice]
November 22nd, 2006 at 2:31 pmCan you say ‘Shinseki’? Sure, I knew could…
[/Mr. Rogers voice]
I don’t think the u.s. have any intentions of leaving Iraq. They went there for the oil and to have another permanent base in the mid east. They will eventually withdraw some troops, but have a large permanent base there.
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:25 amGet out of Iraq. Invade iIsrael, the real enemy.
November 23rd, 2006 at 10:04 amIf we Cut & Run, they will follow to the United States of America.
When Iran gets its Atom Bomb and a 200 mile Missile, it can sit offshore and kill 70% of the population.
Iraq needs to be cleaned up with a Bagdad Cordon, a progressive House to House Search, Confiscating all firearms, explosives and other contraband.
Install a Dusk to Dawn Curfew, Road Blocks, Check Points and shoot anyone out at night or who won’t answer the door.
The troops should answer with knocking down the door and grenades.
There must be Victory in Iraq or you all can kiss your life good bye.
lol. Sadly, if you know anything at all about American history (and not just the bunk that’s taught in grade school), this is a surprisingly realistic account of American “democracy.”
November 23rd, 2006 at 11:57 am20,000 more troops will not solve this problem!
We will just lose more men. This war is not a winable war. Anyone who thinks it is winable is a fool. We are not fighting an army. There are no front lines, or left flanks or right flanks. You cannot fight an enemy like this unless you simply decide to wipe the whole place out. You cannot differentiate who is friend or foe. We have no options that will equal victory. This is a fact. I have come to accept this. It does not matter how may troops we have, can send, or should have sent in the beginning. Only a strong man can run a country like Iraq. Democracy will not work in Iraq.
What would I do if I were President? I would give a rah rah speech and make the American people feel somewhat better than they do now and then declare victory and get the hell out. Unfortunatley we do not have a President who can articulate the english language well enought to pull this off.
Regards,
November 24th, 2006 at 3:14 pmAmes Tiedeman
[…] Approach Posted on 11/21/2006 9:02 PM by brianrApprove (6) | Reject (0) | My vote: None MSNBC Transcript… MITCHELL: Let’s talk a bit about some of the plans that the Pentagon is supposedly […]
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:55 pmYoung Girls Youngest Boys Gallery Young Girls Naked
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 9th, 2008 at 4:42 pmEric
Good Luck..
April 10th, 2008 at 6:00 pm