Contrary to Previous Reports, Cheney Was ‘Basically Summoned’ By Saudi Crown Prince
Contrary to Previous Reports, Cheney Was ‘Basically Summoned’ By Saudi Crown Prince
Last weekend, Vice President Cheney traveled to Saudi Arabia in a visit that “was originally portrayed as U.S. outreach to its oil-rich Arab ally.” Cheney made the trip purportedly to discuss a “range of regional issues,” Cheney’s spokeswoman said. The Associated Press reported that Cheney was “seen as a US diplomatic push to stem surging violence in Iraq.”
But today’s Washington Post reports that the push for the meeting came from the Saudis, not the other way around:
Saudi Arabia is so concerned about the damage that the conflict in Iraq is doing across the region that it basically summoned Vice President Cheney for talks over the weekend, according to U.S. officials and foreign diplomats.
What does it say about the nature of U.S.-Saudi relations when the Vice President can be “summoned” by the Saudi Crown Prince?
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I knew there was more going on there than it appeared. Usually is with Cheney and/or the Saudis.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:32 pmI think that pretty much sums it up. We go where the oil tells us to. Now I wonder how the message that Cheney recieved from the Saudi’s is aligned with the tripe that Bush is spouting at the NATO meeting. My guess is “not much”.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:35 pmThe Saudis want to talk with Dick “Hung Like a Whale” Cheney?
Like he can do anything about Iraq… Oh, he can get us into the mess… but he can’t see that there’s a problem… and he can’t see that a solution would help his a** out of the sling it’s currently in…
November 28th, 2006 at 12:35 pmWhat does it say about the nature of U.S.-Saudi relations when the Vice President can be “summoned†by the Saudi Crown Prince?
The Crown Prince usually summons his employees and subjects, nothing strange about that.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:36 pmThe Saudi Royal Family implored “W” to get the Bin Ladins out of the US post-haste on 9/11.
Why should their sway over the VP be any sort or surprise? From a business perspective they and the Chinese own this country anyway.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:36 pmCheck out the link from BAGnewsNotes. A picture tells a 1000 words.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:37 pmThe Saudi Royal Family implored “W†to get the Bin Ladins out of the US post-haste on 9/11. —- Pity The Fool
The order came from Cheney.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:40 pmBush was busy peeing on “My Pet Goat” on 9/11.
Gee… I hope Dickie can speak truth to power.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:45 pmNo change folks, just another example of Poppy’s friends stepping in to deal with Dubya’s mess.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:45 pmlots of good, correct guessers in this crowd (TP) from what i remember…
November 28th, 2006 at 12:48 pmHeel! OK now Sit! Good boy…
Me, I’m waiting for that “Roll Over and Die!
November 28th, 2006 at 12:51 pmAnyone bother to check out the link to the Washington Post story? It doesn’t link to what it’s supposed to,
November 28th, 2006 at 12:52 pmYour link is bad, did no one even try to read the article before posting?
November 28th, 2006 at 12:54 pmWe have long known that the Cheney character is fashioned after Darth Vader. Now we know who is playing the role of Emperor.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:55 pmThese clowns drive planes into our buildings (if you believe that version), practically own our economy( along with China), and now summon our government officials. Bushes, Cheney, the Neocons, the corprotocracy, have sold our friggin’ country to a bunch of rich ass Arabs. I hope all you hypocritcal racist redneck morons who voted for these asses are happy. Ready to bow to Mecca, idiots???
November 28th, 2006 at 1:03 pmIt says this:
Do not f@#k with my buddies Baker and Papa Bush’s plan for Iraq. I have so much oil that if I pull it from the market, your people will hang you by your balls so you can feel their pain.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:08 pmThe link works for me, but you may have to register with the WaPo to enter.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:11 pmThis story was also in the NYT this morning.
Looks like Shooter met his maker.
Of course, he’s been kicking around with Arabs since his days as Sec/Def.
Was that before or after he sent Rummy over to give Saddam WMD’s?
What does it say about the nature of U.S.-Saudi relations when the Vice President can be “summoned†by the Saudi Crown Prince?
Er…that Vice-President of the United States is Dick Cheney’s night job.
His day job: King Abdullah’s gas station attendant.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:12 pmno – he’s SA’s bootlick.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:14 pmOh, come on americans! Are you now going to act surprised that your present administration is in bed with the Saudis and big oil? Are you going to act the victim? Are you going to claim ignorance? Or are you going to do the honorable and dignified thing and re-establish control of yourselves by exerting the power that you have irresponsibly proxied out to these evil fools? When are americans going to stop whining and playing the victim and start doing the right thing?
So many here claim to know what the right thing is but then immediately offer countless excuses as to why they cannot do it. “Time”, “patience”, “complex agendas”, et al will be thrust out in an attempt to excuse the complacency. Yet those who are bearing the brunt of your actions (and inactions) – the Iraqis, Africans, Palestinians, and your own impoverished – do not have the luxury of the “time” that you so cavalierly demand. They may be dead tomorrow due to your indifference and laziness. You acknowledge the urgency of the situation only in the context of how it can or will inconvenience you.
This sounds harsh, I know. But is it not the reality? How many of you have already made your plans for the Christmas holiday? How many have already put up their decorations and/or already began their shopping fest? Yet, how many of you have began organizing demonstrations to get your troops home? How many of you have decided to not buy gifts this year and instead are donating the monies to veterans groups, or humanitarian groups, or funds to help your own citizens in New Orleans? Sure there are some, and to you I bow in respect. But a large number? I think not.. I feel comfortable in stating that there is not even a substantial, if even measurable, number.
The time has been ripe for americans to stand up and effect change for quite some time now. Yet the vast majority remains seated and complains that no one has yet commanded them to rise up. What are you waiting for? The president? The administration? Your politicians? It is you, the people, who have to take the lead. You lead your country, not the other way around. Quit hiding from your responsibility and rise up and become the americans that your parents and grandparents were. You have a history rich with examples, and yet you resign yourself to having to follow your current “leadersâ€. You have made that choice and then you complain about it. That is not conjecture, that is fact. Get comfortable with it or change it. That is the dilemma that you are facing right now. Anyone who tells you different is lying to you.
I challenge each and every one of you to stand up today and start the change that must happen. Speak with your voice. Speak with your actions. Speak with your money. Do you really need those new Christmas lights or presents more than Iraqis need urgent medical care and assistance rebuilding their shattered lives? Or the people of New Orleans need homes? Or Africans need, gee, recognition? Or that homeless veteran that you walk past every day needs love, care, and assistance to deal with the monsters that you sanctioned to be put into their head?
Merry Christmas to each and every one of you. What your retailers say with disingenuousness I say with utter conviction and determined purpose: It is the time of giving. Give until you cannot give anymore. Practice the “peace†that is one of the most prominent themes in your Christmas carols and tales. That, my friends, will make a difference that will change the world. It is your choice.
May peace be with us all.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:15 pmGot his ass chewed, did he? Too bad.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:16 pmHow Cheney feels about our allies and those who died on D-Day
(see http://d-day.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_d-day_archive.html) vs
How Cheney feels about the Saudi Royals.
Amazing stuff!
November 28th, 2006 at 1:19 pmAs I said when this story was first reported here, Ceney went to meet with his true masters. They call the shots.
I am glad all of the trolls are happy with the fact that Saudi Arabia can tell the Vice President of the United States what the hell to do.
Just wait until China wants their loans paid back.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:27 pmDick: Well, we’ve spent and borrowed until our credit is maxed out . . . I’ve personally cashed in nicely . . . what else do you want from me ?
November 28th, 2006 at 1:30 pmYou always gotta appease the masters, no matter how high up you might think you are.
Someone has always got their hand up that puppets ass
November 28th, 2006 at 1:30 pmIt means Dick is their bitch.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:33 pmI see no reason to believe this explanation any more than the last one. Why should I? Why should you?
November 28th, 2006 at 1:36 pm#26-motherlowman,
No, it means that YOU are their bitch. And, more disturbingly, you have accepted that position without resistance. But you will exercise your “right” to complain. Just before, of course, you willingly bend over in compliance to whatever it is “they” choose to do to you next.
Good luck to you on that.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:41 pmWe knew that Bushie had his chain yanked by the Royal Saudi family… I guess that means Cheney is too.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:41 pmCheney is a traitor to America. He must be arrested, tried, convicted, and executed.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:46 pmNo, it means that YOU are their bitch. And, more disturbingly, you have accepted that position without resistance. Comment by Humanist
[whistle], [red flag] FOUL!
November 28th, 2006 at 1:46 pmYou don’t know anything about this person and what he or she does or does not accept. Your holier-than-thou anti-American rants are getting beyond irksome.
#20 Humanist, great post, Thank You for the work you are doing…I agree and have for year’s..My closest friend’s get a jar of home made freezer jam and my money goes to the Salvation Army, they were the first on site in N.O. to feed and help with little support or fanfare….Blessings all, we need them..
November 28th, 2006 at 1:50 pm[whistle], [red flag] FOUL!
You don’t know anything about this person and what he or she does or does not accept. Your holier-than-thou anti-American rants are getting beyond irksome.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
I agree. That was uncalled for.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:52 pmLinkee no workee
November 28th, 2006 at 1:55 pmCheney is a traitor to America. He must be arrested, tried, convicted, and executed.
citizen_pain
Stop beating around the bush, OK?
November 28th, 2006 at 1:55 pm#31-PLC,
Yes it was a foul! Yes it was disgusting and inappropriate. Yet you blow the whistle on me and puff up your chest with a rant of harrumph all the while giving a pass to the person who just claimed that the democratically elected second-in-command of your nation is the “bitch” of the alternately evil and bestest-of-friends, the Saudis.
I point out the hypocrisy and the duplicity only. Call me what you will but, go ahead, deny that I am correct.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:57 pm#33-Sharon Cox,
To you go my respect and thanks. May your example shine bright and clear so that even those in the densest fog of indecision can follow it.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:59 pmOkay, you are wrong.
You come on here like somebody with a split personality. One minute you give great input and tell things like it is, then in the next post you attack somebody on the same team as you. You are like a person with tourrets syndrome.
So, even if the information in your post is “correct” the way you go about attacking those on your side is wrong.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:07 pm#20, Humanist: Yet those who are bearing the brunt of your actions (and inactions) – the Iraqis, Africans, Palestinians, and your own impoverished
Bearing and will continue to bear the brunt for generations if history is any guide.
How so?
Prior to the deposing of Saddam Hussein, Iraqis of all creeds and deeds use to sit in Bagdhad’s cafes and bash the marauder Ghengis Khan.
As you probably know, Ghengis Khan sacked and defiled sacred Babylon almost 800 years ago.
800 years ago!!
With that figure in mind, I ask how long do you think it will take the Iraqis to forgive Americans for what Pres Bush has done to Iraq?
With that figure in mind and now the images of Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, etc. in mind, how long do you think it will take for Muslims to forgive Americans for what Pres Bush has done?
Americans are in a world of shit: Most do not even know it.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:07 pm#26-motherlowman,
No, it means that YOU are their bitch. — Humanist
deny that I am correct.— Humanist
And you are just a ranting bitch.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:11 pmAnd I deny you are correct with that post, Idiot.
Humanist – I appreciate your frustration. I really haven’t seen a whole lot of whining or people playing the victim on this web site though. People here seem to mostly vent, because they are PISSED OFF!
Almost no-one who posts here would ever claim to be “surprised” by anything that is currently going on. I’m sure that I am not the only one on this site that predicted this whole damn mess before the war even started. (Any politician or anyone else in any kind of position of power who claims that they are surprised is either lying or so incompetent that they should be thrown out on the street!) All I can hope is that all of the people who I talked to before the war started are now recalling my words and now look at what their so-called leaders tell them with a lot more skepticism.
I’ve been to demonstrations and all it seemed to do quite frankly was make us all feel better and get us all filmed. Doesn’t mean that I won’t go to some more.
Suggestions to achieve improvements are always welcome. Thank you for caring.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:16 pmPeace
#40-SpudgeBoy,
I understand and appreciate your suggestion. I know that I can be harsh and offensive in my approach, but contrary to what many might believe, it is not intentional or personal. Unfortunately the subject matter is currently very uncomfortable and disturbing in its reality. I will try to be more sensitive where appropriate, though.
Perhaps you can explain to me how constantly complaining about your current leadership and hurling derogatory and repugnant insults in their direction thereby relieves you, as a collective, of responsibility for their actions? And I’m not talking about their personal foibles but rather the actions that they take on your behalf, as your agents, as your democratically elected representatives and servants.
I propose that the complaining and insulting stop and that the actions begin. I apologize if my “style” offends. But please consider this, no one here ever apologizes for the subject matter itself. And the vast majority here seem to be doing much complaining and blaming, yet very little, if any, reconciliation or atonement.
Thank you for the civil response, by the way.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:23 pm#20 Humanist…that post could have also begun with a: Come on, mexicans/argentinians/peruvians/columbians/danes/swisses/germans/etc…!
The whole world is messed up. We have our priorities upside down. I celebrate that post.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:25 pmPlease people, stop the infighting. One small post or two of critical content does not a nation build….Seperation and distruction has been brought down on our head’s by a bunch of neocons and war-mongers…Nothing pleases them more than to continue the devide if we the people…..I’m not a christian and yet my hear bleeds for our losses, here over in Iraq, Lebanon and the world…..History and our own people will also hate this bunch long after all of us are gone…..
I have known long before 2000 that this bunch in power is evil, 9/11 and the safety of the Benlaudens above our own was evident in the plane load’s of them being allowed to leave when no one else could fly….For the capitalest and the christians this is an important time of year, for this pagan all life and every day is most important…Please stop the waring everywhere…Blessings, will heal, pass them on
November 28th, 2006 at 2:32 pmWhen the truth comes out about his war profiteering, Cheney will go down as one of the most dispicable traitors in American history.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:33 pm#41-goodscarrier,
Valid questions.
I believe that americans have but one honorable and compassionate option regarding Iraq, and that is to leave and leave right away. This will definitely end some of the violence and killing. I’m not saying all, but it will most definitely be a start.
Then, however, comes the hard part. And that will be to begin to atone for the crime. That atonement will come in the form of apologetic words and behavior. It will also involve actions and resources necessary to assist (NOT LEAD) the Iraqis in restoring their lives and rebuilding their future. Also, there can be no limits on the aid or atonement.
I am convinced that such an approach will find great forgiveness within the Iraqi population. Deservedly so by the way. Then, and only then, can you begin the process of bringing to justice those directly responsible for this crime.
There is a peaceful and prosperous option and I implore you to choose it.
May peace be with us all.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:33 pmHumanist: Why do you sit back and let this administration screw you and your family over with actions like these? It’s hard to believe that people like you can just sit back and take it while these guys take your money and run. Why are you such a victim? I’m telling the truth. Deny it if you will, but I am right.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:33 pmFrom a business perspective they and the Chinese own this country anyway.
Comment by Pity The Fool
Most poignant quote here EVER.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:34 pmPerhaps you can explain to me how constantly complaining about your current leadership and hurling derogatory and repugnant insults in their direction thereby relieves you, as a collective, of responsibility for their actions? And I’m not talking about their personal foibles but rather the actions that they take on your behalf, as your agents, as your democratically elected representatives and servants.
If I were teaching a creative writing class, I’d consider using overblown drivel like this as an example of how not to express oneself. Total bloviation: self-important, flowery, embarassing…
November 28th, 2006 at 2:35 pmSo much for the idea of BushCo’s super-machismo. *barf*
November 28th, 2006 at 2:38 pm#46-Bill C’s alter ego,
I appreciate the well intentioned criticism and will consider your kind words and suggestions.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:39 pmYou may not think it is personal, but take a look at how you started the post.
That is a personal attack. I know, I do it to the trolls here everyday.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:42 pmThat is a personal attack. I know, I do it to the trolls here everyday.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Ha! :)
November 28th, 2006 at 2:45 pmHow come Cheney isn’t holding the dear man’s hand?
November 28th, 2006 at 2:48 pmEXACTLY. And the U.S. government is ONCE AGAIN complicit in creating havoc in the World, in order to feed the War Machine “economy” (see Policy for a New American Century).
My God, if the Oil and Pharmecuetical companies can influence our government and policy so easily, and the Military can be called to action on the whim of some economical forecast, then what power do we actually hold as citizens? Nothing, if not for our sheer STRENGTH IN NUMBERS.
WHAT’S IT GOING TO TAKE FOR YOU PEOPLE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?
There HAS to be aggressive, focused, intense action on all our parts to cause any desired changes.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:48 pmWhat does it say about the nature of U.S.-Saudi relations when the Vice President can be “summoned†by the Saudi Crown Prince?
Who’s your daddy?
November 28th, 2006 at 2:49 pmThat is a personal attack. I know, I do it to the trolls here everyday.
— SpudgeBoy
lmao =)
November 28th, 2006 at 2:50 pmHumanist
Why are you posting on this site instead of doing something “active”, as you would define the term? I would suspect that it is for the same reason that most of us progressives post here – to add our little breath to the breeze until it becomes a wind of change. America is a country whose whole political process depends on the voices of its constituents as much as, if not more than, any militant/military action it might take. Post #26 was such a voice and you stiffled it with your personal attack. Your passion, your intellect, and even your moral correctness are worse than useless if you continue to insult those here doing what may be the only thing they can do for whatever reason.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:52 pmHold in you’re memory the above picture and the one of bush holding hand’s with the saudi prince and walking in the crawford garden….Also never forget this same prince and his wife supplied financial support for 16 of the terrorists and now they also have a hold on our port’s along with bush and cheney’s ball’s…….Keep it all front and center and work toward’s ending the war’s created by this evil bunch and don’t give up untill every last one of them is in jail for war crimes and crimes against humanety….Blessings…Peace
November 28th, 2006 at 2:53 pmI suspect the message from the Crown Prince was that Dick and George better fix Iraq before it spreads to other middle eastern countries and if it doenn’t get better, higher oil prices are comming.
Maybe that will get their attention… then again maybe not, higher oil prices makes Cheney’s and Bush’s stocks rise.
A wierd Win-Loose-Win…..
November 28th, 2006 at 2:58 pmgreat postings today.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:58 pm#56-SpudgeBoy,
What I attempted to point out to that poster was that it was claiming that their appointed representative, the vice president, is in a subservient position to something yet they were somehow detached from this. Such a position is akin to a supervisor pointing out that their employees are beholden to the “man” but they are not.
Put another way, I guess the question is “Who works for whom?” Your Constitution describes the hierarchy quite clearly and succinctly. There are those who will say that your Constitution is being compromised and bypassed. To those I have to say, whose fault is that?
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:58 pmpinocchio comes to mind
November 28th, 2006 at 3:07 pm#58
Cause Rev. Ted Haggard ain’t around so they can have a good time. LOL :-)
November 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pmAmericans are in a world of shit: Most do not even know it.
Comment by goodscarrier — November 28, 2006 @ 2:07 pm
Amen.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:16 pmWho is surprised. Hands?
November 28th, 2006 at 3:18 pmposts like #26 will RUIN your credibility if it has not already.
Comment by Bill C`s alter ego — November 28, 2006 @ 2:25 pm
It already has. That was a typical drive-by ad hominem attack by Humanist.
Whenever called on it, he feigns contrition -and then manages to insult again while apologising.
I’d say he is passive-aggressive twit in looking for some human interaction. Even if it’s the negative kind.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:18 pm#68-Bill C’s alter ego,
I understand. However, that perception in itself is part of the problem and let me explain before you misinterpret that as being a personal attack.
The american people have become fooled into believing that they are controlled by their “leaders”. This is simply not true. A prime example being that you all claim that a majority of you want to get out of Iraq, yet you are still there. Why? Because bush and his administration will not bring them back. But contemplate this, what if each and every american who wants the troops home decided to stop working, or strike, until that happens? What effect do you think that would have?
The true power lay where it always has, and always will, the people. You have been convinced through some very sophisticated and complex messaging and programming that such is not the case. That is the truth. There is no wizard, only a bald fat man pulling the levers to serve his own agenda.
It is time for americans to rise up and regain their control, civility, and dignity. The honor you once had, however, will have to be re-earned. But this will be a good start.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:19 pm#26-motherlowman,
No, it means that YOU are their bitch. And, more disturbingly, you have accepted that position without resistance. But you will exercise your “right†to complain. Just before, of course, you willingly bend over in compliance to whatever it is “they†choose to do to you next.
Humanist, I agree with your statement and I believe other posters have taken it out of context. What I drew from his statement is that it is not Dick Cheney that pays the price for his bullsh*t, it is YOU, ME and the rest of the complacent public. Yeah, Dick Cheney may be the Saudis bitch, but you can rest assure, that the American people have been made this administration’s Bitch.
To Humanist, you are one of the most intelligent, insightful and truthful posters on this blog. Peace be to you!!!
November 28th, 2006 at 3:20 pm#20, Humanist: “Timeâ€, “patienceâ€, “complex agendasâ€, et al will be thrust out in an attempt to excuse the complacency.
Perhaps you have failed to completely see the vast myriad of complexities still lurking behind the last few years in GOP dominated American politics?
Apparently, a coup de tat may now occur quite silently and with tremendous force.
What comes to your mind when you read words such as voter suppression, hanging chads, Florida, James Baker, Katherine Harris, Bush v. Gore, Diebold, 9/11, WMD, Iraq, Texas Redistricting, Tom Delay, recalling of Gray Davis, Ohio, Karl Rove?
There has been an extremely well organized seizing of power.
Americans got sucker punched right after 9/11.
Many Americans love justice.
Many Americans love a happy ending.
There will be justice for all.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pmOn topic,
Cheney being all but “summoned” by the Saudi Royals is a more likely explanation to Cheney’s trip to Saudi Arabia.
The prior explanation given (”trying to engage Saudi Arabia in building a secular, democratic Iraq”) didn’t make much sense to me.
The Saudis are really worried about the turn events are taking right next door to them. They can hardly afford being in denial, Bush-style.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pmNo worries America/World, juts another secret National Energy Policy Development Group meeting.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pmwhat if each and every american who wants the troops home decided to stop working, or strike, until that happens? What effect do you think that would have? Human…
November 28th, 2006 at 3:27 pmI, for one, would be fired. Probably lose my home, get divorced, drink a lot.
But, I guarantee that there isn’t one progressive here that voted for this jackass or Bush. We knew ahead of time that these guys were going to screw up our country and others too.
What do you think we should all take up arms and march to Washington? How do you think that would go over? Do you think it would work?
I guess what I am saying is that if you think the Americans should start a civil war of their own, it ain’t gonna happen. We have voted a lot of bums out and will vote more out when another election comes.
If the Democrats that were just voted in don’t impeach Bush, then they need to be voted out. Because that is how we do things in the USA. We vote.
We don’t march to the Capitol. We don’t riot. Unless some cops get off for beating somebody up. Americans are lazy, unless they need free diapers.
If you don’t like that, I am sorry. I personally don’t like it and think that Americans should be in the streets protesting. But, we are lazier than our Latino workers.
But, you don’t see me attacking my fellow posters, because they are not the problem. It is America in general. We are not average Americans. We are the ones who care, so stop attacking us.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:30 pm#73-Gregor Samsa,
I’m confused on something. I have been here all morning responding to each and every one of the questions or comments that have been directed at me, whether they be pleasant or critical. I have done so with courtesy and respect, and have attempted to reply in detail and with substance.
Then you come in, pull one partial critical quote, spew a slew of insulting insinuations, and accuse me of doing a drive by ad hominen attack.
So, sir, do you have a question for me? Is there something I can help you with or do you have some information or wisdom that you wish to supply to me? I will gladly respond to such. But, I would prefer to not just be used as a screen for you to project upon.
May peace be with us all.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:39 pm#75-not impressed with the U.S.,
I appreciate your kind words and that you were able to interpret my comment as it was intended. Yet the fact that many didn’t means that my communications skills are not perfect and require further development.
Thank you for your blessings.
May peace be with us all.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:42 pm#79-RUCerious,
Yes, I can see those all as possibilities. Yet, you did not mention “die” or “get maimed” or “be raped”. These are the repercussions facing Iraqis and your troops, your own sons and daughters, due to your collective inaction.
I don’t know about you, but I would happily lose my job, or my spouse – especially one who would abandon you during such a time – if it would save the life of one Iraqi child, or one misled soldier.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:50 pmI don’t know about you, but I would happily lose my job, or my spouse – especially one who would abandon you during such a time – if it would save the life of one Iraqi child, or one misled soldier.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:57 pmComment by Humanist — November 28, 2006 @ 3:50 pm
Just curious. Why haven’t you?
I noticed you didn’t say I happily lost my job, or my spouse, in order to save an Iraqi child
PEACE (TRULY)
#80-SpudgeBoy,
No, sir, I don’t see you attacking your fellow posters, except for me. Or someone that you don’t agree with, by your own admission that is.
But I do see you attacking Latinos:
But, we are lazier than our Latino workers.
And your dark folks:
We don’t riot. Unless some cops get off for beating somebody up.
And 300 million of your fellow citizens:
Americans are lazy, unless they need free diapers.
And then you propose that I sit back, accept that you are generally good folks, and be patient while you all figure out how to stop pulling that damned trigger and killing innocent people. Oh, and if you don’t get it accomplished in the next two years, well, give you another chance to vote for a change. You tell me, sir, who is being unreasonable.
Oh, and for the record, I do not support violence. Passive resistance and civil disobedience are far more powerful and effective and, well, humanistic.
Peace to you.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:00 pmThen you come in, pull one partial critical quote, spew a slew of insulting insinuations, and accuse me of doing a drive by ad hominen attack.
Comment by Humanist — November 28, 2006 @ 3:39 pm
Aawww… did I hurt your feelings?
I see you also have problems counting: I made three (that’s right: 3) accusations against you, not a slew. And I stand by them.
Don’t play the shrinking violet with me. And stop hiding behind the skirts of the Iraq debacle to try to get a free pass for your condescending treatment of others.
You happen to be on the correct side of the Iraq issue, but after reading your posts and realising you have a penchant for ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, and completely misrepresenting the views of other posters here, I have concluded you came to this stance somewhat haphazardly.
The situation in Iraq simply provides you with a convenient cover for your self-congratulatory, feel-good-about-myself, patronising attitude. You may care about Iraqis, but you want to feel good about your self even more.
I had ignored you until you tried to pick a fight with me yesterday in one of your merry-go-round attacks on everyone. From now on I will treat you as the troll that you are.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:02 pmHumanist, a sad fact here is that we are not run by our leaders but by our apathy. We value material goods and are quick to avert our attention to the next blunder by a famous person or gaffe of some celebrity.
The conflict in Iraq has put us in a dark corner for years to come. We will be paying for this financially and politically for years to come. Fear was used as a great tool to scare us into believing our comfortable way of life would be harmed and we ignorantly allowed this slow talking, christian gentleman to protect us.
Time will show this folly. Time will also allow the wounds to heal of being betrayed. When that time comes, there will be a turn around in this country. When that time comes we will demand accountability from our leaders. Maybe I should say If that time comes.
The removal of our troops now will not end the bloodshed and we as a nation have to come to terms with what our leaders have gotten us into.
I will not ignore the great injustices that have been allowed and I will push for accountability. I do this here and I do this in the physical world.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:07 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/profile?user=seeprogressWatch videos produced by and/or featuring the Center for American Progress.
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November 28th, 2006 at 4:09 pm#84-DRxJ,
I will take that challenge. I will quit my job this instant if you can assure me that it will save Iraqi or american lives. Or, if you stage a general strike I will join and support you.
May peace truly be with us all.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:12 pm#84-DRxJ,
November 28th, 2006 at 4:23 pmI will take that challenge. I will quit my job this instant if you can assure me that it will save Iraqi or american lives
but yet your condensending posts suggests we have failed for not “uprising” against the administration. Assure me and other progressives that when we quit our jobs and/or lose our spouses it will save an Iraqi or an American soldier. You can’t of course. Most of us are not Cindy Sheehan, but most of us are not complacent, either. Nov 7th was the first step. A baby step p’haps for you, but none the less a step in the right direction.
#86-Gregor Samsa,
I am sorry to disappoint but I am neither fazed or hurt by your rhetoric. But I support your right to freely speak such. And I support your right to your own opinion.
However, I do not support your “right” to complacency when it affects the lives and well being of others. You can go on being offended by my vociferous objection to that practice.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:31 pmGregor Samsa: Sorry to bring this back to you from an earlier thread. But it makes sense in all this discussion.
Somehow I doubt it. That line of reasoning is absurd. Yet you have no problem doing it towards Americans. Why?
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Sorry for the delay. Please, dont get offended. People, like you and me are very sensitive when it comes to nationalism, I guess thats why propaganda works so much. I am pretty much the same as anyone here, if somebody says something bad about my country I would jump right to defend it.
Anyway. Your line of reasoning is wrong. Of course, I blame us (latinamericans) for the governments we have and had, for being ignorant, for being racists, for being lazy, idiots consuming I world garbage. If those countries/examples you gave me had the whole population convinced that the only way to overcome tiranny, dictatorship or other internal/external impositions, then those governments probably wouldnt have happened. Nobody can stop the people when they are organized; thats why americans defeated the english, thats why soviets defeated the germans. Not even US touches Cuba because cubans are organized. One example: there was a terrible earthquake here in Mexico in 9/19/1985. Thousands of dead people and hundreds of buildings down. Due to the inability of the government to provide the urgent measures to rescue people, organize brigades, etc., the people began organizing by themselves logistics, health services, communication networks and so on. If that same week the people would have realized that they could do whatever the hell they wanted in terms of achieving political or economical goals, I think they wouldnt have done it, because it must be so damn exhausting to get involved in everything. Instead of that, we prefer electing people to represent us in the government. I guess we rather prefer to get our resources stolen and corrupt governments that involvin ourselves with our duties as citizens.
So, we, the people are guilty for the governments we have.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:32 pmIsn’t it weird to see lard-ass smiling like the consummate ass-kisser that he is?
November 28th, 2006 at 4:33 pm#90-DRxJ,
I agree that it is not easy. And I understand the challenges that face you and all of us in regard to solving this heinous situation. You have support my friend.
If I can I would like to offer up what I feel is an extremely pertinent observation: You all ran into this adventure like your ass was on fire. Now you want to crawl out of it at a pace that makes a snail look like a rocket. It seems to me that you have your priorities reversed. Stated another way, you were in an extreme rush to kill, but you are taking an unending pause before stopping the murder.
How many deaths (murders) are acceptable during your “contemplation” of options?
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:42 pmI do this here and I do this in the physical world.
Comment by hellinabucket
Well spoken.
Now if I may add a comment about the discussion Humanist vs Other intelligent, passionate TP bloggers. The thread is divided in people who are uncomfortable or offended by the form in which Humanist writes which is very neat and pompous and between people who agree with him no matter what. My humble suggestion is that we should take what enriches us as human beings from HUmanist´s posts (or some other poster for that matter) and what doesnt, lets just let it go. I agree with Humanist in the sense that we are all guilty about this, and yes, american citizens more than any other, buts thats another discussion. This guilt he is placing upon us is what other posters sees as an offense, a questioning of patriotism, intelligence, etc. I couldnt care less if he sounds pompous or is as boring as a one night stand with Hal-9000, he is right in the content of his posts and admitting this doesnt make me feel less intelligent, argentinian, proud about my life, etc. It makes me aware of what our decisions are affecting other people.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:46 pmAlso, Im not going to bomb anyone in order to make a change, but I will talk with my children (when I have it), friends, parents, relatives, people at work, etc. about what are we doing to this world. Thats my little contribution.
I wish you could all see that content is correct and form is wrong and somewhat boring and obnoxious. Take from that what you need. Thats all.
You all ran into this adventure like your ass was on fire. Now you want to crawl out of it at a pace that makes a snail look like a rocket.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:51 pmNot true. Some of us were not ready for war. Some of us value life, and remember that fateful day in March 2003 when Bagdad was exploding, fearing for fatalities among all people
And some of us are extremely irritated over the lack of withdrawal from Iraq. SEND OUR TROOPS HOME NOW! has been a battle cry for years, but fell on deaf ears (the right, who werein control)
I would suggest on future posts you preclude someinstead of you with your statements
How many deaths (murders) are acceptable during your “contemplation†of options?
If you’re addressing me personally, the answer would be none. I have been against this Iraqi invasion since day one, and have felt the troops could have been better served searching for Bin Laden
You can go on being offended by my vociferous objection to that practice.
Comment by Humanist — November 28, 2006 @ 4:31 pm
Don’t flatter yourself. Your emotionally manipulative, pompous posts do not “offend” me. I find them -and you- annoying, patronising, and irksome. Exactly the way you wanted them to be.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:51 pmHowever eloquent you appear to be humanist you are wrong in posting 94. When going into Iraq there were great pains taken to minimize the killing and damage. Our military did a magnificent job in executing the task they were given. The problem has been with what to do after the take over of Saddam. This wasn’t planned out and this is where our problems stem from. The speed in which the initial operation occured minimized the death and destruction. The ignorance and incompetence afterward has led to the massive loss of life. Just leaving would create a larger vaccum.
The answer lies within getting the region to take ownership. Not that they had a hand in creating it or do they have to but it is in their region and if we leave they alone will have to deal with this growing civil war. Our leaders have to understand they blew it and allow countries like Syria and Iran to take a large role in creating stability. It’s a stability that wasn’t comprehended by the likes of Dick n’ Bush but the only way we can now create stability would be to unleash all of our military might. That is not what is wanted or needed.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:53 pmOur military did a magnificent job in executing the task they were given.
Comment by hellinabucket
What task was that? Seize the Oil Ministry?
November 28th, 2006 at 4:57 pm#94: Humanist: You all ran into this adventure like your ass was on fire. Now you want to crawl out of it at a pace that makes a snail look like a rocket. It seems to me that you have your priorities reversed. Stated another way, you were in an extreme rush to kill, but you are taking an unending pause before stopping the murder.
You all?
All is a powerful word.
You sit here all day and bash Americans for being stupid but at the same time display a strong likeness to that very stupidness that you are criticizing.
What is clear is that you are fundamentally un-able to think in a critical manner that would prevent you from characterizing all Americans.
What is also clear is that you have been voraciously gobbling up all the MSM bullshit about American support for the war.
You are like a racist who acts, speaks, and thinks toward the object of hate due to being informed by way of stereotypes passed along by the intellectually feeble.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:59 pmI never said anything about me attacking anybody. This is about you. Project much?
How is this attacking Latinos? I said that Americans are lazier than Latinos. If anything that is propping them up.
How is this attacking dark people? White, blacks and Latinos rioted in LA, Denver, Detroit, etc. etc. But you wouldn’t know that, since you aren’t American and don’t live in the USA.
No problem there. Americans are a fat lazy society.
Once again, stop using the term “you” meaning the people on this board. You want to say “Americans” or “America” fine, but stop saying things like “while you all figure out how to stop pulling that damned trigger” because there ain’t one person on this board who has pulled a trigger in this illegal war.
Then stop phoucing attacking us. The people on this board take part in civil disobedience on a daily basis. Do you know me personally? Do you know anybody here personally? No you don’t. You have no idea what the phouc we do in our day to day lives. You assume you know and that is the begining of your problem.
Stop being an ass to people. You make great points and then destroy them by attacking your own team. You are much like Terrell Owens. You are a great player, but you attack your own team mates, which causes people who are on your side to dislike you.
Oh and by the way, if you think I have attacked you, you haven’t been paying attention. People on our side need to have a little thicker skin that what you should in your last post. You came real close to sounding just like a troll.
November 28th, 2006 at 5:01 pmHowever deceitful the task was the actions of the military for the initial invasion was superb. The powers that be decided to first secure the Ministry of Oil. The same powers that decided there was no need to have additional troops to secure the areas after the invasion.
I’m not defending the rationale for the invasion. I have been staunchly against it from the beginning. But my thoughts and worries have always been with the soldiers.
November 28th, 2006 at 5:03 pmbut I will talk with my children (when I have it)
Sorry. Its really dormant my parental instinct. I meant them.
November 28th, 2006 at 5:04 pmNo we all phoucing didn’t. We here were yelling at the top of our lungs how wrong it was. Where were you then? Huh?
This is a prime example of what we have been trying to get across to you all day phoucing long. Stop putting us “ALL” into the same phoucing group. Only 33% of this country supports this war. 66% DO NOT. Stop implying that we do.
Is it possible for you to not lump every American into one group? Do you have the English language skills to allow you to speak about the Americans that support the war without using the term “ALL”
November 28th, 2006 at 5:06 pmHumanist
Why be so nationalistic in this era of globalism?
Is our time not characterized by the tearing down of the walls of space and time through flight, the media, etc?
In this era of globalism, how many Iraqi lives have you saved?
November 28th, 2006 at 5:06 pmBut my thoughts and worries have always been with the soldiers.
Comment by hellinabucket
I have one truthful question: Why US troops dont disobey orders? I mean, as far as I know there is great anger within the US forces towards US government due to a variety of issues, one of them the futility of the war. Why US troops dont revolt?
November 28th, 2006 at 5:13 pmThe same reason why the general public doesn’t revolt.
They don’t want to get carted off to a secret prison in Romania and tortured until they confess to working for al Qaeda.
You could call it the American Inquisition.
November 28th, 2006 at 5:17 pmOkay Humanist
November 28th, 2006 at 5:22 pmI await your reply another day
PEACE (OUT)
Why US troops dont revolt?
Comment by Juan C — November 28, 2006 @ 5:13 pm
That is easier said than done. Look at history, Juan.
Why didn’t Nazi troops revolt? Why didn’t the Khmer Rouge troops revolt? They certainly had a lot of reasons to do it (no, I am not comparing US troops to either. I am merely taking two extreme examples to make a point).
November 28th, 2006 at 5:28 pm107. The troops have a bond between them and their number one priority is the safety of that soldier next you him/her. They have been trained to handle harsh environments. They’ve been pushed further then they ever would have in the civilian world. There is a great sense of pride the comes from this.
They aren’t blind though and there is questioning within on why. A revolt though would be dealt with in very severe terms. Desertion on the battlefield can be punishible by death.
The soldiers leaders are continuing to question the logic of the civilian leaders and this is helpful.
I believe you can find cases of soldiers going AWOL and soldiers refusing to go to Iraq so there is dissention just not an all out revolt.
I’m also fairly certain that orders have been disobeyed in Iraq. Something that won’t be openly known about for years to come.
November 28th, 2006 at 5:29 pmStunning. I very much wish to respond to each and everyone of the specific responses, but time and space warrant that I attempt to do so as a group.
In regard to me “lumping†all americans together and using the term “you all†or when I use the royal “youâ€. Truly, who am I to address in regard to your collective action? When america launches an invasion it is done in the name of all Americans. This is even more so due to your representative government structure. Now, the reply will be that the current administration and government is not representative. I understand your position, but put forth that americans do not understand their responsibility. Over 600,000 Iraqis have died. Countless more have been wounded either physically, mentally, or both. Virtually the entire country exists currently under a barbaric siege and under the constant threat to life and limb. The US military is the prime contributor to this carnage. Are ANY of these facts in dispute? No. So, specifically, who is Constitutionally responsible for your military and its actions? I know the answer, do you? Please, in all sincerity, look it up and correct me with specific reference to the materials and documents that support your position if you feel that it is not, in fact, the people.
Next, many take offense at my saying that the USA (notice that I am acquiescing to your requests) ran into this horrific situation but is crawling out of it. My information tells me that the public “run up†to the invasion, that time in which you were publicly debating the invasion and your public officials were doing their sales pitch, took approximately 5 months. A generous assessment of the time it took for the WMD and terrorist link justifications to be completely exposed as the deceptive farce that they were would be approximately 9 months. For the sake of simplicity we’ll say that Jan 1, 2004 is the date of collective “enlightenment†for the majority of the USA. Today is November 27, 2006. Almost 3 full years. What is currently the exit date? None established yet. So, the math works out to be 0.42 years to get into it, 3 years and counting (with no end in sight) to get out. How is my description inaccurate?
Now this is specifically for SpudgeBoy:
You say: “I never said anything about me attacking anybody. This is about you. Project much?â€
You said: “That is a personal attack. I know, I do it to the trolls here everydayâ€
Gee, how did I misinterpret that?
Much is being offered up as reasons and explanations for why the USA will not stop the murder and atrocities. Yet over 600,000 Iraqi CHILDREN (just like your little Johnny and Suzie), WOMEN (just like your mother, sister, grandmother, and daughter), and MEN (just like your father, brother, grandfather, and son) have already been murdered. Many more are dying every day either directly by your troops or by the chaos that you have caused and are causing. Who amongst you weeps for these souls each night? Who amongst you attends their funerals? Or comforts the families? Come on, answer that question. Is human life precious only if it wears a red white and blue lapel pin?
Finally one poster points out that we are in a one-world situation and that everyone needs to do what they can. I agree. But then it comes down to a question as to what I have done to end this, what am I doing to save the Iraqis. My standard response has been to say “everything I can†but it seems that is not specific enough, so I am forced to elaborate. Fine. I am currently bringing truth and reality to those who for reasons that I cannot understand refuse to accept or acknowledge it. Diplomacy, dialogue, and straight forward discussions and conversations are the approach I have chosen and intent to pursue with vigor. Now, my formal training in such matters is a bit more severe and extreme. I am former military and will leave it to your imagination as to what “skills†and “tactics†that I have expertise in. I am fully capable of having an “impact†if so desired. But those are my demons. I know that there are better solutions and I know that destruction is far easier than diplomacy. But the “right†thing and the “easy†thing are rarely the same thing.
I implore you to begin the change now. Wake up, speak up, and start doing something substantial. Please, I beg of you. How long do you think you have before the members of the world community are forced to resort to plan “B� Step outside your arrogance and realize that in the eyes of the world there is no difference between a human being who is Iraqi and a human being who is american. Think about that sans your nationalistic hubris.
May peace be with us all.
November 28th, 2006 at 6:35 pmI wonder if he would respond so quickly to a summons for Congress. Ya right!
November 28th, 2006 at 6:36 pmHe can’t see the importance of stopping the war and listening to the outcry from the American people especially the troops…but he can be “summoned” by the Saudi prince…
What additional proof does everyone need to see where his loyalties lie…what a scum!!!
November 28th, 2006 at 6:36 pmHow can a v.p.’s trip abroad not produce any positives for the Americans? What a waste of time and taxpayer money? He is a rogue veep!!!
DC scares me!!!
May peace be with us all.
— Humanist
If you meant that you would not have attacked poster at 26, and you would have apologized for that attack.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:30 pmYour credibility here is spent, and you come across as a lame pompus hypocrit.
Now go back to preening in the mirror, telling yourself how “good” you are.
I am not sure why you are intentionally being boneheaded, so here we go.
You said:
I don’t consider trolls “fellow posters” and neither does anybody else on this site, except the other trolls.
And once again, I haven’t attacked you yet.
And I see from your post that you will insist on lumping us all together. So, then I guess we are done. If you are going to insist on lumping us all together, because your language skills are good enough, then I will consider you a troll from now on.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:40 pm#113, Humanist: I implore you to begin the change now. Wake up, speak up, and start doing something substantial. Please, I beg of you.
Why don’t you `be the change you wish to see’?
Why be so fetishistic with Americans?
Why be so wishy-washy with Humanity?
Why be so nationalistic in this era in which the walls of space and time have been demolished with flight, American English, the Internet, etc.?
Why does our connection of Humanity get trumped by Nationalism?
From one side of your mouth you speak of blessed Humanity BUT from the other you speak in terms of NATIONALISM?
Iraq is a HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.
Is it not time you think in terms of Humanity as opposed to nationality?
As a global citizen, why do you not go to Iraq and lead by example?
You are anti-American, that’s all.
You are using the debacle and tragedy in Iraq to express your hatred toward Americans who are not all alike despite your absolutist Bushian thinking (You all).
November 28th, 2006 at 7:42 pm#116-Wayne,
I’ll tell you what there sport, stop the murder that is occurring in your name in Iraq. Then apologize to each and every Iraqi for murdering their friends and family, maiming them and their fellow citizens, and torturing the entire country based upon lies that you discovered 3 years ago (if not before) but took your sweet time to address.
After that I will apologize to each and every person who has ever been offended by the truth that I have communicated.
Oh, and when you speak of credibility issues, I suggest you take a peek into that mirror that you speak of. Merry Christmas to you and yours. Well, unless they are Iraqi, and then, it seems, no one really gives a sh*t about them nor do their odds look good to survive until December 25th so they probably won’t be around any way.
But I am amused that you would have the audacity to call me the hypocrite.
May peace be with us all. Except if you are Iraqi, at least according to Wayne.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:44 pmYou are anti-American, that’s all.
Comment by goodscarrier
Whats an anti-American?
November 28th, 2006 at 7:50 pmAt this point I would say anybody that is for truth, justice and the American way.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:54 pm#113, Humanist: For the sake of simplicity we’ll say that Jan 1, 2004 is the date of collective “enlightenment†for the majority of the USA.
Again, this shows that you have been gobbling the M$M bullshit which is basically a stenographic report of propoganda from criminals in positions of power. (See TP yesterday: Dana Priest: Washington Post Avoids ‘Civil War’ Language Because Iraqi Gov’t Does Not Use It)
Even with “majority”, you do violence against so many people who have been against the war from before the beginning.
You keep lumping everyone together.
Like Bush, you think un-critically and in absolutes.
You are anti-American plain and simple.
You are using all the maiming, torturing, killing, malnutritioning, drowning, sodomizing, etc. going on Iraq as basis for your passive aggressive anti-American rants.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:55 pm#119-goodscarrier,
When you encounter a rape in progress, the first thing that you need to do is to stop the rapist. That is what I am attempting to do. How you see that as “nationalistic” is confusing to me.
But I guess I could call Palau. I understand they have like 3 troops there. Obviously THEY must be in charge because no american seems to think that they can do anything about it. By the way, who is paying for the Iraq debacle? Isn’t the first rule of investigation “follow the money”?
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:57 pmHey, what’s the problem with Saudi Arabia summoning our VP?… It’s not like it was some country antithetical to our values, like France or Germany!
November 28th, 2006 at 7:58 pm#118-Spudgeboy,
Ah, it’s an issue of semantics. My apologies there.
Now, in regard to me “lumping” together, I thought that I addressed that clearly and sincerely. Tell me please, who is, per your Constitution, responsible for the actions of your military?
I am being sincere, by the way.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:02 pmAt this point I would say anybody that is for truth, justice and the American way.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
I liked that. Well said.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:07 pm#124, Humanist: When you encounter a rape in progress, the first thing that you need to do is to stop the rapist. That is what I am attempting to do. How you see that as “nationalistic†is confusing to me.
Woman being raped = Iraq (et al)
Rapist = Bush admin
Passer by = Citizens of the world, not just Americans
Despite this…..
Let’s do speak in terms of nation: What has your nation done to stop Bush from raping? What sanctions has your nation passed against the USA? How exactly has your nationed pulled Bush off object of rape?
Let’s say, Bush is Hitler. The invasion of Iraq is an American vision of Lebensraum and the Muslims are the Jews. What is your nation doing about it?
November 28th, 2006 at 8:13 pm#123-goodscarrier,
I would have listed the date and time of the moment of enlightenment, regarding the deception and fallacy that led you into the Iraq atrocity, for each and every one of the 300 million americans but I don’t think this site would have appreciated the length of the post. That is why I said “for the sake of simplicity”.
Holy cow! I’ll tell you what, why don’t you all tell me who is the lone motherf*cker who you feel is responsible and in control of this whole mess. It is OBVIOUSLY none of you and many of you cannot point your finger fast enough. So tell me, who is it?
And then, since we all agree that this is a crime in progress, sanction me to extinguish the problem. That is what you want, right? Someone to clean up your mess? Someone to stop the USA from the continuing its atrocity?
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:16 pmThen go to redstate and bitch at them. They are the people who support this war, we don’t. Of course you already know that, because we have been telling you all day, but continue to lay it on us. Jerk.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:23 pm#128-goodscarrier,
I am a member of the human race and an inhabitant of the planet Earth. So, what is my “nation” doing, everything it can.
I find it curious that you claim the following: “Rapist = Bush admin”
List specifically how many Iraqis each and every member of the bush administration has personally killed. Specifically, of course.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:23 pmAnd then, since we all agree that this is a crime in progress, sanction me to extinguish the problem.
Comment by Humanist — November 28, 2006 @ 8:16 pm
Anyone here who is in favor of naming Humanist as the person to fly into Iraq, the US, the UK, the UN, (and whatever other country, organisation, etc. might be needed) to end the horrible mess that Iraq has become say ‘Aye’
AYE
November 28th, 2006 at 8:26 pmIt is not semantics. My fellow posters are progressives, liberals and democrats.
The trolls are not my fellow posters, they are only trolls.
The Commander in Chief and the US Congress. That is why the Constitution also calls for a militia of the people. The Conress that was voted in doesn’t take office until January. They can’t do anything about the Commander in Chief until then. If they don’t then we will deal with them.
There will be no peace between us if you continue to lump all American in together. Jerk.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:28 pmPhouc you, you piece of shEt troll.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:30 pmOkay, fine, I’ll stipulate that virtually no one here supports the Iraq invasion. I’ll even stipulate, with reluctance, that every one here did everything in their power to avoid it. And I’ll stipulate that every one here knows that it is a mistake and a heinous atrocity.
That settled? Good.
Now, who SPECIFICALLY can stop it? What is their phone number? Where do they live? How many Iraqis have they personally killed? How do I reach them?
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:31 pmWow, almost 7 hours for you to stop lumping every person in the US together.
George W Bush
Call 411 and ask for The White House
They live at 1300 Pennsylvania Ave Washington DC. Not sure what the Zip Code is.
He hasn’t personally killed any Iraqis, but Charlie Manson didn’t personally kill anybody either.
You can reach him on Air Force one as he travels around the world trying to gain support for his illegal war.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:39 pm#133-SpudgeBoy,
Ah, a militia “of the people”, the people’s army. So these “people” of which the Constitution speaks, who are they? Where do they live? How do I contact them?
According to you they are not here, because YOU (no lumping there) denounce any responsibility so YOU (no lumping again) cannot be one of the “people”.
But you call me the “jerk”. Good luck to you there my friend.
May peace be with us all. (Except Iraqis. They’ll get it when “the people” get around to it.)
November 28th, 2006 at 8:42 pm#137-SpudgeBoy,
Charlie Manson’s executioners did go to jail though, didn’t they. So, are you proposing that your entire military be jailed?
Can you see yet the fallacy of your responsibility hierarchy? It is actually a circle, and it always leads back to the people.
Peace.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:46 pmI’m off to search for the mythical “people” of which your Constitution speaks.
For those who still refuse to even consider their responsibility regarding the actions of their nation, I say this: Enjoy your servitude for you have FREELY chosen it.
Now, off to find the masters. Good night all.
May peace be with us all.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:51 pmThe militia of the people was destroyed long ago.
No, I am not part of any militia. As was stated earlier, I do everything in MY POWER, short of getting arrested and shipped to a secret prison in fu*kyoustan. Do you get it? Or are you really that much of a dipsEt that you don’t comprehend English?
I am gonna go with you the fact that you have proven that you are nothing but an anti-American dipshEt.
What have you done to stop the war? What legislation have you gotten passed in your country to stop the war?
Nothing, you haven’t done a god damn thing to stop it, so get off your holier than thou trip and help out or STFU.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:54 pmThe United States Military is a sanctioned body that is only following the orders of the commander in chief. Just as the Nazi army was not jailed after WWII, just the leaders. Do you live on another phoucing planet.
Your types of arguments reek of republican neo-con scum.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:57 pmCharlie Manson didn’t personally kill anybody either.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — November 28, 2006 @ 8:39 pm
I also find it odd that Humanist wants us to name each victim individually, as if a prerequisite to hold Pres Bush and his cronies accountable, yet he is perfectly comfortable blaming us for the Iraq catastrophe without needing to name any of those poor Iraqis who have died during this occupation.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:57 pmI like how this jerk says that he is all for peaceful protest and civil disobedience, but thinks we should all take up arms and start a revolution. Dumb a** is too much of a chicken shEt to say it though.
In the words of the man pictured above”
“Go f*ck yourself”
November 28th, 2006 at 8:59 pmWhat nation are you from Humanist and what crimes can we accuse you of?
November 28th, 2006 at 9:53 pmWOW is this situation getting worse by the minute. Cheney may “retire” due to medical reasons.
November 28th, 2006 at 9:57 pmUntil he answers that simple question he is not worth talking to (like he ever was.)
November 28th, 2006 at 10:10 pm#150 – Spudge_Boy,
November 28th, 2006 at 10:20 pmI do not really know, but he, she or it lacks certain key elements of knowledge that are key to an existance in anEnglish speaking country. If an American – he, she or it would have to be in the third or forth grade.
“It’s like deja vu all over again” – Quote attributed to Yogi Berra but heard the world over by everyone of age to remember the Vietnam war.
So today, again, I become the nemesis. It would be humorous if it were not so tragic. Not a single claim or assertion that I have made has been challenged due to factual basis or foundation in truth. In effect, the “truth” then is the enemy.
But, I have been called every name that will pass through the filter. I’ve been called a “troll”, “neo-con scum”, “chicken shEt”, “jerk” and “america hater”.
I’ve been told to “STFU”, “Go f*ck yourself”, and it has even been implied that I and mighty aphrodite are one in the same. What I know of mighty aphrodite and from the conversations that I’ve had with it on this very blog, I can assure you that its head exploded upon reading that comment.
Yet, if you go back to my first comment on this thread, I predicted virtually all of the “conversations” that occurred with me that followed. Denying accountability, offering excuses, blaming of politicians, lack of substantive actions. They have all appeared in the “conversations” usually while insinuating that I lack intelligence or knowledge of the English language or something that the poster thought would insult me.
But in the end, no one answered the questions that I asked. Well, truthfully that is. Those who continue to speak of bush as if he is the source of all your evil and the overlord that controls you are merely looking for a scapegoat so as to ease their guilt. No Iraqi has died at the hand of bush, or cheney, or rumsfeld, or wolfowitz. No, each and every Iraqi who has been murdered in your name has been murdered by a fellow american.
I have read your Constitution numerous times. The beautifully crafted definitions, the eloquence, the brilliant foresight. But in the end, outside of the technicalities, the document can be summed up into three magnificent words – “We the People”.
Too many here no longer understand what that means. It has become “they”, “them”, “him”, “her” or, easily summarized as “not us”.
Seems I have a better grasp of the English language than many here. It also seems that my intellect is of the type that your founding fathers intended to speak to. You see, I know the accountability and responsibility that is attached to “We the People”. And I understand that in a representative government, the true power will always lay with the people. It cannot be taken away, only neglected.
I challenge anyone here to offer a different interpretation of your Constitution. I challenge all here to work now to achieve the peace that so many seem to fear. And lastly, I challenge anyone here to name an Iraqi that has been murdered in your name, for your nefarious cause. Because only a heinous coward would exterminate an entire country without talking to one face to face just once.
Extermination is what you are going for, right? Every day more Iraqis die and every day you ask for more time to end it. Time is plentiful, but Iraqis are finite in number. Eventually you will just run out of Iraqis to kill while trying to figure out how to stop killing Iraqis.
May peace overcome hubris.
November 28th, 2006 at 10:23 pmOops, I forgot the “u” – darn spell checker!
November 28th, 2006 at 10:31 pm#153 – Humanist,
November 28th, 2006 at 10:44 pmDo you mean “déjà vu”? Yogi got it right.
Humanist is funny!!!!! WOoHOOO!!!!! Chocolate cake!!!!!!
November 28th, 2006 at 10:51 pm…………………………
November 28th, 2006 at 10:51 pmSeems I have a better grasp of the English language than many here. It also seems that my intellect is of the type that your founding fathers intended to speak to.
Comment by Humanist — November 28, 2006 @ 10:23 pm
Yes, Humanist. Your superior intellect leaves all in the dust, clamoring for mercy, and hoping one day we will grow up to be like you, so omniscient, so self-confident.
Why did you cut your last self-praise so short? Did you run out of good things to say about yourself? You only typed, what, one page…
November 28th, 2006 at 10:53 pmDear Humanist – Due to your lack of “personality skills” a few tips for making friends and influencing others might br helpful. Your self-laudatory tone is a bit much. We’ll stipulate you are one well-read, well-spoken person. You might wish to stipulate that you are an intellectual elitist with few friends. Your attempt to lecture your fellows in the anti-war trenches is hilariously tacky.
Once again, you make an erroneous comparison of American troop action with a rape in progress. If you would be so kind as to demonstrate from your vast knowledge an instance in which no collateral damage have taken place in previous warfare, I will stand illuminated. The attack on Iraq for non-compliance of the 1991 Cease Fire and the subsequent UN resolutions repel your version of the story.
November 28th, 2006 at 11:31 pmFortunately, Dick Chenney will be remembered as much as we remember Garret Hobart.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:48 amAnother thread pwned by the trolls…
November 29th, 2006 at 12:54 amCheney-Rumsfeld were two administration staffers who realized decades ago that today’s executives delegate a lot. They figured out that if they had the right unintelligent weakling who had the name recognition to be elected President, the two of them would be able to run the country and play global games with the world. They themselves were unelectable, and they knew they didn’t have to; with the executive delegating everything to the underlings to handle and making his job nice and easy, they would run the United States.
Baker was summoned to clean up the mess that was made by Junior playing president while his babysitters, Cheney and Rumsfeld, ran things. Baker somehow managed to press the right buttons, and Rumsfeld is gone. Now Cheney is the roadblock. Cheney is dug in tight and not letting go of the steering wheel. Therefore, the Saudis have summoned Cheney to bring him to the woodshed. I’d love to have been a fly on the wall, to hear what they said to Cheney in an attempt to get this man to loosen his madman’s stranglehold on our country and the whole world.
November 29th, 2006 at 8:52 amI figured it would only be a matter of time before he became a Saudi whipping boy.
November 29th, 2006 at 8:55 amYou mean “summoned” as in painting a pentacle in the floor with brimstone and reading the bible backwards? Hmmm… sounds correct to “summon” Cheney…
November 29th, 2006 at 8:56 amHumanist,
You avoided my questions like Bush avoided the Viet Nam
#153, Humanist: No Iraqi has died at the hand of bush, or cheney, or rumsfeld, or wolfowitz. No, each and every Iraqi who has been murdered in your name has been murdered by a fellow american. I have read your Constitution numerous times. I challenge anyone here to offer a different interpretation of your Constitution.
Based on the US Constitution, why exactly has each and every Iraqi who has been murdered not been murdered by Messr Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz but instead has been murdered by a fellow american?
Based on the US Constitution, why exactly has each and every Iraqi who has been murdered not been murdered by Messr Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz but instead has been murdered by my great grandfather who is 94 years old?
Please cite the passage you are using as a basis,
If war trials ever come about, who exactly do you think will be hauled into the dock?
#153, Humanist: It also seems that my intellect is of the type that your founding fathers intended to speak to.
I would say you think more like Pres G. W. Bush
Back to your use of “You all”?
All is a powerful word.
You sit here all day and bash Americans for being stupid but at the same time display a strong likeness to that very stupidness that you are criticizing.
What is clear is that you are fundamentally un-able to think in a critical manner that would prevent you from characterizing all Americans.
What is also clear is that you have been voraciously gobbling up all the MSM bullshit about American support for the war.
You are like a racist who acts, speaks, and thinks toward the object of hate due to being informed by way of stereotypes passed along by the intellectually feeble.
But in the end, no one answered the questions that I asked.
I can say the same to you.
You never answered one of my questions.
Now that the walls of time and space between nations have collapsed due to American English, the Web, flight, etc., what have you done as a Global citizen to stop the murder and mayhem in Iraq?
What have you or your nation done to the citizens of the US whom you say are committing the acts of muder and mayhem in Iraq?
November 29th, 2006 at 9:04 amHumanist,
Enough typing and looking into the mirror.
It is time for action: Go to The Hague and say that all Americans are guilty of murder in Iraq due to their inaction which is in defiance to the US Constitution.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:14 amWake up people, those of you who think that the country is bieng governed from Washington are truly deluded. We are a country that is now OWNED by the Saudis, South Koreans and increasingly, the Chinese. These are the major players who now hold the handle (debt) on this country. We have the blade at our throats now. We have been sold out down the river for pennies on the dollar, so that we can keep up the facade of luxury living, lavish homes and SUVs. Pray that these masters dont decide to call in their debt all at once, because that’s when the party ends.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:30 amwhen will we stop bending over for oil? When congress stops being the lap dog for big oil and their money!.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:58 amWhich means never!
Humanist, after reading all the “hateful” posts to you from all these “so-called” progressives, you see why we are in the position we are in today. Do not expect many changes in our policy just because we voted in some Democrats. Many are jealous of your gift of clarity and truthfulness. All you psuedo progressive keyboard intellectuals should take note.
November 29th, 2006 at 10:07 am172, notimpressedwiththeUS: Humanist: Many are jealous of your gift of clarity and truthfulness. All you psuedo progressive keyboard intellectuals should take note.
Clarity and truthfulness?
Simianist is obviously an apologist for the Bush admin.
How so?
At #124, with Iraq in mind, Simianist metaphorically writes of rape but then goes on to question my fleshing out of the metaphor (#128) put for by him/her (#131): I find it curious that you claim the following: “Rapist = Bush adminâ€
More interestingly, Simianist then writes with his favorite Chimp in mind, List specifically how many Iraqis each and every member of the bush administration has personally killed. Specifically, of course.
So are you a Bush apologist too?
Like Humanist, do you think all Americans derserve to be hauled to the dock at The Hague or do you think the Bush admin officials should be?
November 29th, 2006 at 10:45 amHumanist, your mother was kind enought to post her support for you in #172. Your true name must be Humanist NotimpressedwiththeUS. Whew, with such a long name, I understand why you simply go by your first name here. I hope you see the enduring nature of a mother’s love – even when her kid does something REALLY stupid – like bash American Progs who are most in sync with your views. Remember, making friends isn’t always easy on the playground – the other kids who might be your friend don’t appreciate you poking them with a sharp stick.
November 29th, 2006 at 10:52 amHumanist v. Iraqis
Why is Humanist unable to distinguish between Americans and the American government?
Why does Humanist muzzle the voice of Iraqis?
Falih Hassan, a Sadrist legislator, said in an interview with The Associated Press. “Bush is a criminal who killed a lot of Iraqis and we do not want him to interfere in Iraq’s affairs. The Iraqi government should negotiate with the U.N. Security Council, not with the leader of the country that is occupying Iraq.”
#153, Humanist: No Iraqi has died at the hand of bush, or cheney, or rumsfeld, or wolfowitz. No, each and every Iraqi who has been murdered in your name has been murdered by a fellow american.
November 29th, 2006 at 10:53 amperhaps the saudi’s have selected a young boy for cheney.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:05 amI wonder if Cheney had a chance to have another chat with Saudi billionaire/terrorist financier/Ptech financier Yassin al-Qadi?
November 29th, 2006 at 12:05 pmWow, mighty aphrodite and me agree on something. Humanist has no people skills at all.
I think Humanist is one of those Mensa people. You know the kind of person that is so smart, that they are dumb as a rock? The kind of people I have to fire from time to time. When you talk to them in the interview, they seem really smart, but then after you hire them, you find out that they can’t operate a telephone.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:20 pm#175-Homer,
Ah, a fellow philosopher. Though I am but a novice in the field humbly striving to improve and grow until reaching the ultimate physical pinnacle, death. Thence on is the next adventure upon which we can speculate about, however foolishly ignorant, but today lets discuss the current state of existence of which we both share.
I am curious, wise one, how is my position flawed? In a society that is governed of the people, by the people, and for the people – as the Constitutional structure of the USA so clearly and brilliantly defines – does not the ultimate responsibility of actions of the collective then have to, by very definition, fall upon the people?
If I were to hire an attorney to represent me in court, that attorney will plead my case, present evidence and argument, and speak and act on my behalf. Yet the judgment, whether favorable or not, would apply solely to myself and would be my full responsibility. If that hypothetical court were to find me guilty of a crime, would the court then expect my “attorney†to serve my sentence or pay restitution? Of course not, nor would that make any sense.
A representative government is precisely the same as the relationship between a client and an attorney. The representatives in the government act on behalf of their clients, the people, but in the end the responsibility always lay with the people, not their attorneys.
Now, the only exception that applies is when an attorney, or representative, acts outside the wishes and directions of their client. Then, and only then, can the client be absolved of their responsibility, save where negligence on the part of the client can be shown. But in such a situation where the attorney acts outside the direction or intent of the client, and the client becomes aware of such yet does nothing to stop it, both the attorney and client share the guilt.
I welcome your challenge to this logic, if you can find flaw or error.
May peace and wisdom grace our lives in abundance.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:39 pm#173-god,
Strike me down dead with your vengeance or cease your slanderous use of the moniker.
Peace.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:42 pmYes, but did he swallow?
November 29th, 2006 at 12:42 pm#174-mighty aphrodite,
As you like to claim to be a sanctioned practitioner of the law, perhaps you would like to address the questions that I just posed to Homer.
Or would you like to continue your childish attempts at flinging insults and baseless disparaging comments in my direction?
I pity you that “truth” frightens you so. However, you do hold the keys to the chains of confinement that you have willingly placed yourself into. Your choice.
Peace.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:47 pm#173-god,
As I am still breathing, thinking, and living, all can see that you are the farce that I knew you to be. I believe that you will find that the one whom you petulantly and arrogantly attempt to impersonate provided to Moses a commandment that forbids that exact practice. When the time comes for you to meet the deity, if such is your fate, I would be interested in how you plan to explain that malicious transgression.
Good luck to you on that.
Peace.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:55 pm#172-notimpressedwiththeUS,
I appreciate the support and kind words. However, childish insults and malicious insinuations do me no harm and are expected. It is human nature to have the urge to fear the unknown and to lash out at that which one does not understand. No harm, no foul.
The “truth” is something that should never be hoarded or kept from sight. Those who desire it will see it and those who cherish it will share it. Those who choose to succumb to their fears and insecurities will hide from the truth and will do everything they can to fight it and attempt to quash it. Such is a fool’s errand, of course. But “freedom” is not just an inalienable right, but it is also a responsibility. Someone who refuses to accept the truth and be a fool is free to do so and, of course, fully responsible for that decision.
May peace be with us all.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:17 pmSomebody call the Saudis and tell them they can keep him!!!!!!!!!
November 29th, 2006 at 2:05 pmSo, mighty aphrodite, if I don’t agree with Humanist and you don’t agree with him, does that make him a moderate extremist is is there a different direction we can use for his type. You right, me left, Humanist up. As in heads in the clouds.
So, we could call Humanist an upward leaning moderate extremist.
November 29th, 2006 at 3:13 pmDoesn’t a picture tell more than a thousand words?
November 29th, 2006 at 3:31 pmJust look at those fists…
I’m confused. Why are stories like not being covered??? I’m struggling to find more on this story that isn’t coming from progressive/liberal sources (my favorite of all the sources, mind you). The Washington Post link does not appear to reflect this story. This is all a part of the bigger, uglier picture the rest of us has been seeing for the last 5-6 years.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:03 pmTo Mighty Asshole,
No, I am not Humanist’s mother. I would be proud if a son and/or daughter of mine was as eloquent as he and/or she. However, just so that you know who I am, I am the same one who told you on previous threads “get off your knees and get that neo-con d*ck out your mouth. It’s hard to understand you with your mouth full:D GET IT!!!!!
November 29th, 2006 at 4:09 pmthe correct link is Stepping Into Iraq
November 29th, 2006 at 4:15 pmOops — my bad. No, it ain’t. It’sCivil War in Iraq Near, Annan Says
November 29th, 2006 at 4:31 pmAlso, to all of you attacking Humanist, DO NOT ATTACK THE MESSENGER, LISTEN TO THE MESSAGE!!!!!!!!
November 29th, 2006 at 4:37 pmBy the bye, Humanist, well said. Do you have a website?
To the forum, I suggest we not be distracted from Humanist’s central point in a flutter and huff of indignation.
I have recently come to the position that blaming Bush, blaming the NeoCons, &c. is wasted ammo. The guilty party is the electorate. Questions like, “when are the Bush supporters going to face the atrocious calamity they have wrought upon posterity?” (I suggest it will be sooner than I once hoped), and “what will the general judgment of the American public be, say 50 years hence, if there is still a world and a country, of the Republican congress since 2000 (since Newt, really) and the so ill-named “Christians” that put them there.
How can there be anything but scorn, contempt, and astonishment at such Dark Ages throwbacks even 10 years from now?
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.” [Isaiah 14:12 ff.]
And heroic figures that I love, like Randi Rhodes, who is herself ex-military, are determined that no blame should go to the “troops” (which most people think refers to individuals. For the record, “troop” is a collective noun, a single-file string of walkers, traipsers, cf. Ger. “treppen”, or “trippin’ down the stairs”): that all the blame goes to the leadership.
But I cannot forget Buffy Ste. Marie’s great lyrics:
“He’s the one who must decide who’s to live and who’s to die
And he never sees the writing on the wall.
But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He’s the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can’t go on
He’s the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can’t you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.”
So I blame the braindead people that voted for slavery up to 1860 and Jim Crow thereafter, against Darwin after the Scopes trials and still can’t see straight, and let history heap shame upon those who supported Bush and let them stink like Ted Haggard for ever and ever, Amen. Let them never, never, never be able to raise their brainless heads again while the earth stands.
Ah! But Humanist goes a step further. He’s preaching to the choir, and saying, “Those cavement are the benighted. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. But you should know better. What are you doing? Are you getting off your fat ass and getting out in the streets and opening eyes? Are you shutting off the damnable sitcoms and instead streaming CSPAN? Are you guaranteeing government-by-the-people by deigning to govern? If not you, who? Read the papers for the answer to that question.
November 29th, 2006 at 5:12 pmCorrection:
I cut & pasted those lyrics from the web, but: “condemned him at Dachau” should have been “condemned them at Dachau”
November 29th, 2006 at 5:27 pm“cavement” should be “cavemen”
November 29th, 2006 at 5:28 pm#180, Humanist: I am curious, wise one, how is my position flawed? In a society that is governed of the people, by the people, and for the people – as the Constitutional structure of the USA so clearly and brilliantly defines – does not the ultimate responsibility of actions of the collective then have to, by very definition, fall upon the people?
As those who read already know, practice and precept often collide….
Before we go on…..
Please directly cite the passage(s) from the US Constitution which support(s) your interpretation.
I’d like for you to quote and then show through commentary how your interpretation is supported by that very same quote.
Let’s modernize the discussion too…..
In this age of Globalism, which makes the US Constitution hard to apply, what specifically has your country done to the perpetrators and facilitators of the crimes going on in Iraq, and what specifically have you done to the perpetrators and facilitators of the crimes going on in Iraq?
Why are you focussing on just Americans?
Are you not using murdered Iraqis as the basis of your anti-Americanisms?
Humanist v. Iraqis
Why is Humanist unable to distinguish between Americans and the American government?
Why does Humanist muzzle the voice of Iraqis?
Falih Hassan, a Sadrist legislator, said in an interview with The Associated Press. “Bush is a criminal who killed a lot of Iraqis and we do not want him to interfere in Iraq’s affairs. The Iraqi government should negotiate with the U.N. Security Council, not with the leader of the country that is occupying Iraq.â€
#153, Humanist: No Iraqi has died at the hand of bush, or cheney, or rumsfeld, or wolfowitz. No, each and every Iraqi who has been murdered in your name has been murdered by a fellow american.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:00 pmSimianist!
Humanist v. Iraqis
Why is Humanist unable to distinguish between Americans and the American government?
Why does Humanist muzzle the voice of Iraqis?
Falih Hassan, a Sadrist legislator, said in an interview with The Associated Press. “Bush is a criminal who killed a lot of Iraqis and we do not want him to interfere in Iraq’s affairs. The Iraqi government should negotiate with the U.N. Security Council, not with the leader of the country that is occupying Iraq.â€
#153, Humanist: No Iraqi has died at the hand of bush, or cheney, or rumsfeld, or wolfowitz. No, each and every Iraqi who has been murdered in your name has been murdered by a fellow american.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:02 pmTells you that American citizens have no say in our own policies or what the government does. Remember Cheney said he would not go along with any agreement in telling our congress the policies and what he has been doing in running our government. Bush & Cheney has sold us out to global corporations which include Saudi Arabia, UAE, Dubai, BP Britain owns our oil and pipe line from Alaska.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:15 pmBush has finish the plans for a 4 football length wide road that will run straight though our country, starting in a MEXICAN port and ending in CANADA. This will bypass our union workers, (Guess instead of Mexicans having to enter our country illegal, they will be working on the jobs created for other countries with this road. We will have no rights and have no security over this project, they will just use our tax money to build this for Global Corporations.
What jobs are left, what companies are left and what does the American citizen really own in the country anymore?
Our rights are gone, we can not speak our thoughts, we do not own our property, we have no say in our government policies in fact our votes are being electronically voted for us at the polls now.
“So, mighty aphrodite, if I don’t agree with Humanist and you don’t agree with him, does that make him a moderate extremist is is there a different direction we can use for his type. You right, me left, Humanist up. As in heads in the clouds. So, we could call Humanist an upward leaning moderate extremist.” Comment by SpudgeBoy
********Spudge – You’ve got a good idea – I would only modify it slightly – “Head up…. patuchie. (I don’t think you need the translation…) But the “moderate extremist” part…. too funny!! Mr. Aphrodite thought the term “extreme extremist” sounded more apropos – - I said the guy was so in your face non-sensical, the term “moderate extremist” fit the smug one.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:59 pm#190 – “Mighty Asshole, I would be proud if a son and/or daughter of mine was as eloquent as he and/or she. However, just so that you know who I am, I am the same one who told you on previous threads “get off your knees and get that neo-con d*ck out your mouth. It’s hard to understand you with your mouth full:D GET IT!!!!!”
Comment by not impressed with the U.S.
********Madam – With a mouth as filthy as yours, it is EXTREMELY understandable Humanists eloquence would impress you…..
November 29th, 2006 at 11:30 pmAll he needs to say is “we’re cashing in all our T-bills tomorrow if you aren’t here” and even Bush better run over and kiss his ring.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:21 amSince we have put off limits where we can drill for oil in our country it has to come from the Saudi’s. You can talk all you want about alternitive enegery sources which is good. But the need for oil is now!, Not next year.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:11 amThis is the choice we have made and have to deal with.
********Madam – With a mouth as filthy as yours, it is EXTREMELY understandable Humanists eloquence would impress you…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — November 29, 2006
YOU would know about filthy mouths would’nt YOU!!! Did you use mouthwash the last time you performed your duties??? :>D
November 30th, 2006 at 1:51 pmThis country was bought and sold a long time ago to the Saudis.
November 30th, 2006 at 5:44 pmThis has been in the works for at least 25 years. Greed, corporatism, globalization. You can call it a lot of things but basically what we are talking about is fascism. And man have they been smart, until now that is.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:37 amThese jaggofs that call themselves Neocons have managed to partner themselves with major money and power over the last generation and have basically bought themselves a government. Our government. In bed with the Saudis, Israelis and the Chinese.Yes the damn Chinese. We owe, thanks to Herr Reagan and Bush1&2, basically our first and second born children to these weasels.
And the money has been a’ flowin’,war profiteering is at an all time high.. The most brilliant bit was to allign themselves with the radical christians, mainly the Dominion Theonomists. That’s a name that doesn’t get bandied about often. Those freaks have been trying to buy a white house for 30 years also. If anyone is interested, their agenda makes for good bedtime reading…if you like nightmares that is.
The point is, yes I believe Cheney was summoned by the Saudis. I would imagine he has major personal money involved in that one. We know the family Bush does. Nothing that fat, evil, waste of human life does would surprise me in the least. All of them, Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfy, Ashcroft and the rest of that neocon stew of remorseless sociopathia should be tried by an international court, stripped of all monies, and incarcerated forever in Abu Ghraib, guarded by Iraquis.
This, of couse, will never happen unless we, as a people rise up and make ourselves heard. I, for one do not trust the Dems to do nearly enough. Don’t get me wrong, I was happy as hell when they took both houses, but they have to do something with their victory. You can bet BushCO will be fighting hard to impede their progress so it’s up to us to push this thing along. Fight back before it’s too late.
Move On.org is getting some meetings going now. Everyone should sign up and do something about these monsters. Make no mistake; these are not just bad, greedy politicians. This White House and its closest sphere of influence are evil and dangerous. They need to be dealt with now. I for one do not relish the thought of America being thought of as the next Nazi Germany or more likely, The next Stalinist Russia.
[...] Well, here’s another fine mess the Bush regime has kicked up in the Middle East. Remember a few weeks ago when Darth Cheney made a quick “visit” to Saudi Arabia, and it was billed as a consultation? It turned out that Cheney was summoned to the House of Saud on a moment’s notice for a “WTF? session”. As in, “get your ass over here now, Dick.” [...]
December 13th, 2006 at 5:29 am[...] Cheney is reportedly advocating taking the side of the Shiites in Iraqi civil war, a position which caused him to be “summoned” recently to Saudi Arabia and has stoked fears of a broader war in the Middle East. Whatever motivations Cheney has for remaining publicly silent, he seems intent on pushing his failed ideological vision to its disastrous ends. [...]
December 13th, 2006 at 11:47 amI think this is normal thing between two friends. You call your friends for dinner and so does Saudi Prince. Its absolutely normal.
December 15th, 2006 at 5:53 pm[...] Rumsfeld, whose resignation recently rocked the Department of Defense, fully expected to draw down to 35,000 troops by August 2003, a permanent and bucolic garrison residing in a peaceful kingdom of grateful Iraqis, presided over by Chalabi. This would be accomplished by a swift and overwhelming victory — shock and awe — that would serve the dual purpose of installing an acquiescent Iraqi government and demonstrating the futility of fighting Americans. The neocon advisors had predicted what they called a “democratic domino theory,” wherein the establishment of toy democracies within the Washington Consensus would begin in Iraq and then sweep through adjacent countries — where the grateful brown children would embrace their new rulers along with McDonald’s and The Gap. The target of their bizarre theory was none other than Saudi Arabia, though reality has driven the US again back into the arms of the despotic Royal Family. [...]
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