Powell: Iraq Is In A Civil War And Bush Should Stop Denying It
Powell: Iraq Is In A Civil War And Bush Should Stop Denying It
Speaking with CNN reporter Hala Gorani in Dubai today, former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Iraq’s violence meets the standard of a civil war and thinks President Bush needs to acknowledge that. According to Gorani’s report, Powell said if he were heading the State Department right now, he would recommend that the Bush administration adopt that language “in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.” Watch it:
Full transcript:
GORANI: Well, within the context of the leaders conference in Dubai and also within the context of this debate, this semantics debate, over whether to call what is going on on in Iraq a civil war, the former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he thinks we can call it a civil war and added if he were still heading the State Department, he probably would recommend to the Bush administration that those terms should be used in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.
I’m paraphrasing what he told me. This was closed to cameras and this was something he said within the context of this academic debate with 2 or 3,000 people watching on in the region.
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i just goggled “Bush,troops,civil war” and this was one link:
Exclusive: Iraq—Plans in Case of a Civil War
Newsweek
Aug. 14, 2006 issue - The Bush administration insists Iraq is a long way from civil war, but the contingency planning has already begun inside the White House and the Pentagon. President Bush will move U.S. troops out of Iraq if the country descends into civil war, according to one senior Bush aide who declined to be named while talking about internal strategy. “If there’s a full-blown civil war, the president isn’t going to allow our forces to be caught in the crossfire,” the aide said.
…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14206642/
i’m sure there’s more with better search words…
November 29th, 2006 at 11:34 amwhen did Powell “grow some”???
November 29th, 2006 at 11:35 amthe former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he thinks we can call it a civil war and added if he were still heading the State Department, he probably would recommend to the Bush administration that those terms should be used in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.
Or attack another country with false info about WMD´s, right, Colin?
November 29th, 2006 at 11:35 am(Thank you, Mr.Powell…..)
November 29th, 2006 at 11:36 amSpeaking of Secretary of States, someone aked a day or so ago, regarding the whereabouts of the current secretary..
anybody got any clues?
What with Dubya’s diplomatic offensive,(CBS, I believe, used this term as he was preparing to leave, truth can come from strange quarters……),
and Deadeye’s summons to Saudi Arabia for a meeting with his king, one has to wonder where our top diplomat can be…… maybe someone has access to security tapes from Pic-Way, and can try to catch a glimpse of her……
Too little, and too late, Colin. But at least you’re capable of recognizing the truth now. Unfortunately you didn’t recognize it in late February 2003 when you lied to the United Nations and the world about non-existent weapons of mass deception.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:36 amI was hoping TP would really take on the ineffective UN (that many of you seem to have great affection for) for it’s inability to condemn the government of Sudan. But since you swear Colin Powell lied to the UN when Iraqi resolutions pass - - this little nugget will have to do…..
November 29th, 2006 at 11:37 am~Freedom h8r!~
November 29th, 2006 at 11:38 amfor it’s inability to condemn the government of Sudan.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
I dont know much but isn´t that wrong…for a LAWYER?
November 29th, 2006 at 11:40 amRe: contingency plans for civil war in Iraq…
November 29th, 2006 at 11:43 amPerhaps the key words are “full-blown” civil war…
Guess we’re not there yet, finally getting around to admitting it for what it is…..
I give it till April or so, when it comes down to helicopters pulling people off the roof of the U.S. Embassy there in the Green Zone, if they time it right, they can make it a 30 year anniversary event, maybe bring a few antique Hueys, just for the nostalgia of it….
Bush [to Powell, via grumbling from sycophant spokespeople]: You are dead to me. Be gone!
November 29th, 2006 at 11:43 am#6… hijack much?
November 29th, 2006 at 11:45 amI never understood why it’s pronounced “colon”? Who the hell want’s their first name to be synonymous with an ass? Unless…
November 29th, 2006 at 11:45 amThrasher,
as the holiday-shopping season is in full swing, she might be found in some store. Try the shoe. department. ;)
Doro
November 29th, 2006 at 11:45 amPowell remains so full of it.
If he were Secretary of State, he, Armitage, Wilkerson and the rest would be doing exactly what they did 2001-2004: losing to Cheney and OSD and then peddling the Administration’s Kool Aid to the public.
NONE of those guys — Powell, Armitage or Wilkerson — said a word to the American people before November 2004 when that information might have made a difference. They valued their careers, book deals and “loyalty” to the Administration over conscience or the Nation.
Powell, Wilkerson and Armitage deserve a collective kick in the ass.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:51 amSomeone wants to know where Condi is? She’s trying to find her way out of the dressing room at Saks. Trump had it right. She’s accomplished nothing. Shows up for meetings and photo ops and then leaves and nothing ever gets done.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:53 amWith no disrespect here’s the man who openly lied to the UN for the Bush Administration. Powell knew the leaders didn’t believe Bush so he told the lied and asked them to trust him at his word. Now he wants to start telling the truth. Powell is just as guilty as the rest of his so called friends in letting thousands of young men/women die for White House greed. At lease we know Bush is a coward, drunk and idiot. Cheney scared to serve his country with 5 deferments. Rummy living in the FDR days. But Powell was a military man who knew what would happen to our troops and did nothing about it. Powell is no hero in my book just another suck up for money so he can talk to the hand the ears aren’t listening.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:54 am# 11. Succint and perfect! Busted the little troll for the non-sequitur and nonsense posting whose intent is to detour the threads into tangential pissing matches.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:55 amNice to see mr. powell accepting reality. Too bad you sold your soul to the devil in the run-up to the war in iraq. Once it is sold, it cannot be bought back.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:55 amPresident is the reality immune person. He never faced it in his whole life. I t seems that Powell is the only person on this planet, who does not know it.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:57 amWho is Colin Powell?
Bob in Petaluma
November 29th, 2006 at 11:58 amWas he holding up a vial of anthrax or showing film clips of CGI mobile weapons labs when he made that statement?
November 29th, 2006 at 11:58 am[…] Powell: Iraq Is In A Civil War And Bush Should Stop Denying It - ThinkProgress.org […]
November 29th, 2006 at 12:01 pmNow he speaks out.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:01 pmPowell, Wilkerson and Armitage deserve a collective kick in the ass.
Comment by Leo Strauss
You’re right. If Powell weren’t on the outside looking in, he’d be doing the same old shit.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:03 pmIt must be difficult for Powell to look in the mirror knowing his culpability for promoting this horrific debacle.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:03 pmOf course, Bush will never admit to this being a civil war for the key reason that once he does everyone in America will want us to pull out. Bush will continue to deny it as long as his last shreds of credibility rely on it.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:05 pmSay what you like about Mr. Powell but he is a major threat to the President and his administration. Let the far right do the character assasination of Powell. He is still respected world wide and this will push the “Civil War in Iraq” more into the forefront.
There won’t be any resolution until we do come to grips with the situation on the ground. Accept the past failures and address the current failures so we all can move forward.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:06 pmUN (that many of you seem to have great affection for)
November 29th, 2006 at 12:07 pmMA,
Not as much affection as we have for you.
You always bring such salient points to the table & then scurry away like a little rodent, afraid of the light.
Piddles…
[…] I suppose Powell might still have some ability to move the conversation forward, but this has always been the problem. The Iraq war has always been packaged purely for domestic political consumption, and specifically for the glorification of Commander Codpiece. The “rebuilding of the schools,” the obsession with first “dead enders” then “foreign fighters” and “al Qaeda in Iraq,” the constant turning of corners, the denial of the existence of civil war, were all an elaborate reality denial dance. What made it worse was they believed their own propaganda. […]
November 29th, 2006 at 12:09 pmToo little, and too late, Colin. But at least you’re capable of recognizing the truth now. Unfortunately you didn’t recognize it in late February 2003 when you lied to the United Nations and the world about non-existent weapons of mass deception.
Comment by Curlew — November 29, 2006 @ 11:36 am
Exactly. It is too late for Powell to ever wash the bloodstains off of himself.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:11 pmHe is still respected world wide and this will push the “Civil War in Iraq†more into the forefront.
Comment by hellinabucket — November 29, 2006 @ 12:06 pm
Colin Powell is not respected world wide by any stretch of the imagination. He lost that respect long ago.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:12 pmPowell said if he were heading the State Department right now, he would recommend that the Bush administration adopt that language “in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.â€
Uh-huh. And then Cheney and Rumsfeld would have laughed, Bush would have said “No way, Jose,” and Powell would have left the room in his usual ineffectual style, satisfied that he’d done his utmost to halt the senseless loss of hundreds of thousands more lives in Iraq.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:12 pmOnly an idiot could remain in denial with so much evidence to the contrary. Then again its little wonder that Dubya’s still DEEP in the STATE OF DENIAL.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:13 pmI was hoping TP would really take on the ineffective UN (that many of you seem to have great affection for) for it’s inability to condemn the government of Sudan.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — November 29, 2006 @ 11:37 am
Yet you continue to support the Bush administration which has done everything possible to cripple the UN. What a lying putrid hypocrite you are. If nothing else, you are consistently vile, though.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:13 pmBy the way MA, are you still working furiously on that manifesto you are writing about how the Democratic party has “embraced an anti-Semitic philosophy”?
November 29th, 2006 at 12:14 pmpowell and mccain- scurrying around to be on the winning side
November 29th, 2006 at 12:15 pmColin Powell was too late in voicing his opinions publicly with this travisty.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:18 pmHowever, Let’s not give bush, Rumsfeld or Cheney a free pass.
Powell was out numbered in this administration and Condi is not fit to be Sec. of State.
#31. Powell knew going into the UN that the evidence was shakey. He was pushed by Cheney to present the case for military action. Powell insisted that Tenet sit directly behind him with the intent that if my ass is on the line so is his. This will always be a blot on Powells career but it’s not the only thing. He has long standing relationships with leaders around the world and his voice does get attention outside the US.
Members of the UN know that Powell was doing the bidding of his boss. They also know that his advice wasn’t followed before, during and after the invasion of Iraq.
Your personal disgust for Powell is understandable, but his presence in this matter is needed.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:21 pm…for # 20…Colin Powell killed Polly Klaas and that mini-drag queen, uh…Jon Bonet-Ramsey.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:21 pmhttp://drunkandbroke.blogspot.com
November 29th, 2006 at 12:23 pmThe Continue jumping overboard from the Bush Titanic. The Neocon did it last week and now powell. The only people on board now is Laura and Barney. He told us they will be the last to leave.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:24 pmThe continuing jumping overboard of the Bush Titanic. The neocon cut loose last week and now Powell, Although he was gone a long time ago. The only people is remaining is Barney and Laura. He stated they will be the last to leave.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:28 pmThe only important part of this is: “I’m paraphrasing what he told me.”
November 29th, 2006 at 12:29 pmI f he makes no recommendation for pulling out , it is just another chicken shit comment .
November 29th, 2006 at 12:29 pm[…] Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, speaking in Dubai, labeled Iraq a Civil War and called on president Bush to quit debating the semantics of the violence on the ground there. […]
November 29th, 2006 at 12:29 pm[…] Watch Video […]
November 29th, 2006 at 12:32 pm(Hiding and ducking for cover) I think Powell made the speech he made helping to get us into Iraq because he was relying on information that was deliberately “hatched”. His biggest mistake was trusting the source but who could blame him? Up until now, when we know the information was manufactured, who would have doubted the credibility of one of the most highly respected agencies that the United States had going for it in world information?
November 29th, 2006 at 12:34 pmIf anything, I think Colin Powell is embarrassed by his actions and would like to distance himself from what was surely a major political and moral mistake. The man did have enough integrity to resign when the truth started to come out. (Me, running from the scene…..)
I love Hala Gorani!!
November 29th, 2006 at 12:34 pmLike he recommended that Shrub adopt a 10 year old report from the First Gulf War as bases for the current war. Powell has no more integrity left no matter how hard he tries.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:35 pmThis sorry, cowardly excuse for a human being is dripping with the blood of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and nothing will wash it off.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:35 pm1) its unbelievably stupid that the “semantics” debate even exists, and that a US Administration would put so much effort into trrying to control the language of an issue.
2) the bush adminstration used up powell in feb. 2003. They are not the lleast bit intersted in anything he has to say. And for the most part, neither is anyone else, but for a different reason.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:38 pm.
[…] Since 2001, Colin Powell has always been the Sancho Panza to George Bush’s Don Quixote. And now that he’s no longer doing the President’s bidding on the floor of the United Nations with the fleeting hope of securing the governorship of some distant insula, he’s trying to speak reason to his former master. But Powell should know better than anyone that the President cannot be swayed by reality, that Bush is still confident that Staying The Course is akin to the magical balm of Fierabras, and that these violent fits of vomiting the magical potion produces are Progress. […]
November 29th, 2006 at 12:47 pm[…] If Powell was still Secretary of State, he’d call it a civil war. […]
November 29th, 2006 at 12:51 pmGeneral Powell will never get the blood off his hands.
He should have resigned rather than lie to the world at the UN. He staked his reputation at the UN, he should be treated accordingly.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:52 pmwho was that who presented to the world “facts” he knew were false regarding Iraq and WMD’s, oh yes Colin Powell. Once they leave the talons of the Bush administration they are then “realists.”
November 29th, 2006 at 12:56 pmPowell is right of course, but it would’ve been better if he spoke up a long time ago. He got conned into presenting at the U.N. and will never be able to live it down.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:18 pmI guess Powell is tired of seeing the U.S. army be used as cannon fodder for Israel.
NEXT STOP ON THE ZIONIST WAR PATH - IRAN
November 29th, 2006 at 1:20 pmOf course it would have been better if Powell spoke up 3 years ago. It would have been better if a lot of people spoke up. It would have been better if this country didn’t go along with the fear mongering in the last Presidential election.
None of that happened and we are here today. I’m glad he spoke up now.
Wash. Post, ABC, CNN, Rolling Stone and Reuters are all posting this story. It will be talked about now.
Funny, not a word of it on Fox.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:25 pmIran’s Proxy Army = Hezbollah
Israel’s Proxy Army = U.S. Military
D.C. IS OCCUPIED TERRITORY JUST LIKE THE WEST BANK
November 29th, 2006 at 1:27 pmDeep down Powell is a good guy, I can forgive his transgressions.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:31 pmAIPAC owns Congress
so none of this illusion matters
November 29th, 2006 at 1:39 pmCourage is to speak the truth when it is not popular and convenient. Honor is to protect the truth even at the risk of personal sacrifice.
powell now speaks the truth only when it is already common knowledge and there is no risk to his “career” in an attempt to regain some semblance of credibility.
powell has no courage or honor. Those who praise him are cheering deception and its practitioners. Those who listen to him are fools.
Peace.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:40 pmHumanist, It also takes courage to admit mistakes and take action to correct them. From CNN report: In 2003, Powell set out a lengthy argument at the United Nations that buttressed the eventual invasion, including supposed evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Asked Wednesday whether he regretted those statements, he said he does. He noted he was working with the information that was available to him at the time.
Powell can be one of the voices you so desperately want to hear that speak out.
It’s all or nothing with you but it’s not that way in the real world and it’s not that way in the US of A.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:54 pm(In a booming voice)’Pay no attention to the civil war behind the curtain.’
November 29th, 2006 at 2:02 pmIf Mr Powell had only resigned rather than do this presentation. He hasn’t.
He owns this war now, along with his fellows in the Administration. There were many people who had information other than the one presented and said so out loud.
It is simply not true, that Mr Powell was working with (all) the information that was available to him, only the information he chose to use. I’m fed up with being taken for a fool. I remember the live broacasting very well and even I, getting my info from msm, knew I was being led.
It was in all the papers in Europe, “We’re being fooled!”. But the Administration chose willingly to call french fries “freedom fries” in an effort to disgrace the voices in “old europe”, voices that were loud and clear and said: “Stay away from it!” Remember Mr Blix? He said it loud and clear, “wmd not proven”. The US Administration had its agenda and people died. Period.
Please forgive this outburst, I know you people here were warning voices, too (except the trolls) but I am furious about this senseless bloodshed.
November 29th, 2006 at 2:24 pmMr. Powell, a nation was 100% behind you. Bush played you like a Texas fiddle to be his front man to lead us into war. Now with tens of thousands dead…and no end in sight to stop the bloodshed and choas, you now come out and speak the thruth! You have lost a lot of respect. Just think, you had the ability and opportunity to be president, but defered to Bush. You should take a lot of the responsibility for what has happened.
November 29th, 2006 at 2:25 pmToo bad there is no actual interview with Powell, or transcript. I’ve seen a lot of righty blogs claiming that this is coming from “unreliable sources.”
Terry
November 29th, 2006 at 2:46 pmI took a lot of crap at the time for telling some co-workers that I thought it was merely propaganda and we were being spoon fed a line of B.S.. Colin Powell was only telling people what they wanted to hear then and he’s doing the same thing now. He is a tool.
November 29th, 2006 at 2:48 pmThe is one consolation prize for us as Bush continues to lie and stonewalling reality… He’s just going to come out looking even stupider in the end. Even his most stalwart apologists will have given up on him. The Neo-con experience of our times will have burned itself into the psyche of America, as the ultimate failure!
November 29th, 2006 at 2:52 pmhis integrity and credibilty were simultaninputeoulsy extingusihed on that faithful day in Feb 2003 before the UN when he wantonly decided to show fabricated images of a non-event. Does he stay awake at night thinking of all the death and destructuon his has played in this fiasco? Apparently not. He has no contrition or perhaps worse…no soul….
November 29th, 2006 at 3:05 pm#63-hellinabucket,
I will provide powell with due respect if and when he tells the truth about the run up to the war.
You act as if powell has redeemed himself with his current comments. How so? He speaks now an obvious truth and you want to instantly forgive and forget his past transgressions, which contributed to the invasion that has costs the lives of well over a half million humans, and prop him up as a credible and reliable voice?
I’m curious, if it was your daughter, or sister, or mother who died as a result of the deception and consequent actions that this man was not just a participant in, but the lead public salesman for, would you be so quick to bow down again at this man’s alter?
The american people wonder why their politicians are devious and deceptive. I would be willing to bet that if this man ran for president, with his best caring and trustworthy facade put in front of the people, that you would vote for him. I don’t recall the name of the governor who made the claim about it taking him being caught with a dead girl or live boy for him to lose the election. Seems, though, that the phrase needs to be updated to include “in the last five minutes†in order to accurately reflect the current american public’s gullibility.
If you buy a lemon from a used car salesman, you can justifiably look upon that salesman with disdain. If you go back to that same salesman and buy another car from them, you get exactly what you deserve and are fully responsible. And, I might add, you also forfeit your right to claim that you were swindled or even complain at all.
If it is your choice to give powell credibility, so be it. But are you really now going to offer up your credibility in his defense? Good luck to you on that.
However, all I see is an unrepentant liar and murderer. powell would have much work and effort to do in order to gain any respect or credibility with me. But I guess that’s just me. Literally.
Peace.
November 29th, 2006 at 3:14 pmI will not defend the actions of Colin Powell but he is the senior most member of this administrations cabinet that is now speaking the truth. He’s not a band wagon to jump on or off and the more he is in the forefront the more he will have to explain his actions in front of the UN.
This site is a place that has been asking for change and here is a person who was on one side of the fence and is now on the other. That is change and progress.
Pissing and moaning about that past won’t change it. Here is another voice speaking out and you want to shut it up because you think he lied to you.
If Powell continues to speak the rest of the world will listen. Whether you do or not.
November 29th, 2006 at 3:18 pmThis White House is not going to call this a Civil War until all of the Sunnis dress up in blue and are lead by a man named Grant and all the Shiites are dressed in gray and are led by a man named Lee.
Lincoln, Lincoln, my kingdom for a Lincoln.
November 29th, 2006 at 3:30 pm#72-hellinabucket,
You trust the man, I do not. I’ll agree to disagree with you on that.
One thought though, if you never hold your politicians accountable, how do you expect them to be accountable? Then there’s that “definition of insanity” thing but I think that would be beating a dead horse.
May colin powell be cursed with the constant vision of the faces of those that have been murdered, tortured, and abused in the atrocity that he was instrumental in propagating until such time as he comes forward and tells the full un-edited truth about his involvement. Him telling me that smurfs are blue isn’t going to cut it.
Peace.
November 29th, 2006 at 3:37 pmHumanist, I am not Powell’s defender and you are not Aesop so just cut it with the fables. Change will not come in some glorious revolution or peace loving hug fest.
Personally I don’t give a shit what you see Powell as. If you want to help with the continual character assasination rather than welcome another voice that takes the covers off this mess than so be it. I’m going to listen to Powell and others whose voices are gaining strength.
I don’t give credibility to Powell, nor do I take it away. I see no easy solution to the horrific tragedy in Iraq. Opportunities at the beginning of this conflict are long gone and hell has been unleashed. The question is what can and will be done now.
The answer is not to just leave and the answer is not just to stay. The answer lies within the region, it’s religion and politics. The sooner the situation on the ground is understood the sooner real steps can be taken to create stability and eventually peace.
Isn’t that what you want?
November 29th, 2006 at 3:43 pmPowell has only one problem - he is and was a loyal soldier. The basic tenet is that a loyal soldier follow his leader, right or wrong. The only exit is war crimes - history will offer a judgement on that, but I believe he is holding the short straw on that particular area.
November 29th, 2006 at 3:44 pmColin Powell is not a bad guy. He was working for an administration that compelled him to take their position. One does not see open antagonism at this level of public service. The environment in which he worked has a great deal of politic, which he had to deal with. He refers to his talk at the UN as being the low point in his career, because he was given incorrect information that he then fed to the public. His open break at this time is quite extraordinary. The expectation is for silence from those who held his position.
November 29th, 2006 at 3:48 pmHumanist, Clarification for you. Powell was not and is not a politician. He has never been elected to office. He was appointed and, as posting #76 points out he is a loyal soldier and he fell on his sword for his boss. He will have to live with that forever.
November 29th, 2006 at 3:50 pmIt’s good to see people can be so meanspirited and opinionated. It’s no wonder were in this war. If you dont know all the facts keep your mouth shut. Although I didnt support the war I thought they had weapons of mass destruction based on the info they fed us. We dont know th whole truth and may never know it.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:06 pmI agree with Hellinabucket. A good soldier is loyal to his commander in cheif as long as he holds his position. Its called honor and if the person you are working for is undeserving they you wind up taking a bullet. Some people take oaths and patriotism seriously.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:09 pmhellinabucket,
Being a “politician” has nothing to do with whether you were elected or not. But really that’s an issue of semantics.
Having been a soldier, though, I can tell you that your first duty is not to your commander. Taking the fall for your boss is not the act of an honorable warrior, it is the act of a loyal servant. Huge difference. And when the stakes include the lives of innocents, protecting your one boss at the expense of the multitudes of innocents is an unforgivable act.
Peace to you my friend.
May peace be with us all.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:28 pm#80-toaster,
Based on your post I can tell two things about you:
1: You have never been a soldier or warrior.
2: You have no idea what “honor” and “patriotism” mean.
I recommend that first you read through your ENTIRE Constitution. Then, actually read the oath that your service members take. Then, join the military and learn about war, death, destruction, and peace. Then, identify ten people that you believe are honorable and talk to them about “honor”.
You have much to learn and should be careful about throwing around such hallowed and complex terms so cavalierly.
May peace be with us all.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:38 pmHumanist. I agress with your first duty is not to your commander. As I said before I will not defend him or his past actions. Having been a soldier myself I know and believe my first duty is to my country. All too often that is obscured with distasteful orders with no explaination. When told to jump the only correct response from a soldier is “how high”.
Since you work in hypotheticals you may understand this. If he knew the information was false then he will stand before God and be judged. And all the venom spewed towards him will be justified.
If he did not know the information was fabricated he was taking the enormous responsibility on his shoulders.
Before being Sec. of State he was a career military man earning his CIB in Vietnam. He has seen death. His Powell Doctrine was based on if the military is used then it should be with overwhelming force. One, to obliterate the enemy and Two, to have enough show of force to create stability in the region. it’s not too different than what General Marshall did after WWII.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:51 pmPerhaps it’s important to distinguish between judging Powell as a person and judging the utility of comments by a former US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and Secretary of States. One’s judgments on the former don’t determine one’s options on the latter.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:59 pm#83-hellinabucket,
The moment powell stood in front of the world and held up a vile of baking soda to scare the hell out of everbody, he sacrificed whatever credibility he had at the time (if any) for the pursuit of a dubious agenda. A CIB does not act as a badge of honor for life, preemptively excusing future dishonorable behavior. Duke Cunningham was a decorated veteran as well. He sold out his fellow soldiers for Persian rugs.
I could speak the next few hours about the flaws in the “powell doctrine” and although it would be an interesting conversation and debate I’m sure, there is no need. powell has disgraced, dishonored, and discredited himself. Were I in his shoes, I would be focusing my efforts on atonement by helping and serving those that I brought grievous harm upon. But that’s me.
Instead, powell is attempting to make a political comeback and I’m sure that he will flash his medals whenever convenient in the process. Not realizing, probably, that by doing so he spits upon all other recipients by doing so. I truly do hope that he lives well and causes no further harm. But I will not give him the keys to the city, nor would I trust him beyond my sight.
Peace.
November 29th, 2006 at 5:17 pmHumanist, The point of his failures have already been made. I have already stated I am not here to defend him. Whether you want to believe this or not doesn’t make any difference to me.
What I am saying is he still has a voice that leaders of this world listen to and now that the Bush administration is crumbling other countries will look for other options. Powell is not making a political comeback. He will not be running for any office. That what makes his voice more clear.
You spout off for people to take action and when one does that had been deeply involved you still piss and moan.
Never said a CIB is a badge of honor. Rather it’s a greater understanding than most what truly happens in war. Do you even know what a CIB is?
November 29th, 2006 at 5:34 pmhellinabucket,
CIB=Combat Infantry(man?) Badge.
I understand what you are saying and fully respect your opinion. That is why I said that I would agree to disagree with you there.
My issue is that powell is performing no action. Anyone here could have stood in front of that assembly and said the exact thing that powell did with just as much credibility. He brought nothing new to the table, no new information. Rather, everyone is excited that “colin powell” said it.
So, it’s not the information, but who is delivering it. Witness Michael J. Fox talking about stem cell research and ask yourself if a top level researcher with the most stellar credentials possible would have had the same effect.
In the case of powell, he actually detracts from the message’s credibility to me and I suspect many others. The last time he presented information to me, through his presentation at the UN and broadcast around the globe, he lied and deceived and waved a vile of baking soda in my face telling me that I should be afraid, very afraid. It did not convince me or the UN, but it sure as hell sold the american public.
So, you can believe that he now has a new agenda of servitude and that his intentions are pure and he is working to the betterment of all the worlds people, especially those he was personally involved in bringing grievous harm to. I choose not to because in my eyes past experience says that such a leap of faith would be foolish and contrary to reason.
The way I see it, he first sold you a lemon of a used car that blew up and killed many pedestrians and even some of your family. Now he’s telling you that the subsequent car that you purchased on your own is a great car and that it was a good decision to buy it. And you want to put him on the board of Consumer Reports in charge of evaluating cars.
Sorry, but that’s how I see it.
Peace.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:00 pmProgress is a slow process…. for neocons.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:05 pm#79
November 29th, 2006 at 6:10 pm“If you dont know all the facts keep your mouth shut.” Please enlighten us or follow your own advice.
If powell was so principled, he should have resigned in Feb 2003 before making all those misleading statements at the UN. He lost his reputation the day he made those statements by not standing up against the neocons in the administration.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:04 pmHello Humanist,
You spent an entire paragraph setting up a straw man and then shooting it down. I never said Powell has an agenda, nor am I supporting one.
You have stated his words distract from the message. You may believe that but it was important enought to be reported in Canada, Syria, Bahrain, the UK, Romania, Australia, Malaysia and India. He’s being listened to.
It holds no bearing on whether you respect him, or find him principled, your opinion is just that. What is a fact is this man still carries weight internationally.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:12 pmhellinabucket, Humanist has nothing but strawmen. It is pointless to debate him.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:21 pmColin Powell is the worst excuse for a principled public figure that I have ever seen. He has compromised every stated principle that he allegedly holds dear as it pertains to warfare. The 2800 American deaths in Iraq should haunt him every day of his miserable life.
Get lost Colin, and don’t let the ashbin of history hit you in the ass on the way out.
All you had was your credibility and you wasted it on King George. Are you happy with that choice?
No, I didn’t think so.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:30 pmI personally don’t give a damn what Powell says or thinks. He had his chance and failed.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:32 pmHow many people in this administration is saying this:
“We should talk with Syria and Iran… Syria is part of the solution.. I visited Syria twice when I was a Secretary of State because she is part of the solution,” Powell said at the annually “Forum of Leaders” in Dubai.
Everyone will blame him for being the face in front of the UN trying to sell the world on the evils of Saddam. Why will everyone just stop there when an actual sane voice is being heard.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:45 pmPowell must have a lot of sleepless nights since he sold his soul to Bush&Co and they played him for a fool. He probably thinks he should have seen it coming - he should have been smarter.
November 29th, 2006 at 10:25 pmHe can comisserate with Tony Blair, who, after following Bush like a puppy, he is now being tossed like a used tissue. Blair has lost his reputation, lost his legacy and will be known in British history as a failure.
So, too, will Colin Powell. It’s a sad way to end.
People don’t realize how ruthless GWB can be. He grew up from the school yard bully who delighted in torturing frogs to the college frat boy who used his family wealth and influence to get what he wanted, while mocking others with sarcastic humor that skewers them.
That’s how Bush gets his jollies - making other people subservient to him. It makes up for his own failures and lack of abilities.
Bush is an amoral, lying psychopath.
[…] Former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Iraq’s violence meets the standard of a civil war and thinks President Bush needs to acknowledge that. http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/29/powell-civil-war […]
November 29th, 2006 at 10:37 pmMarie,
You’re right. But the history books will also show what a failure this president is/was.
November 29th, 2006 at 10:48 pmThe United States is a great nation, too bad it is run by a bunch of idiots and morons. If they were executives of a large fortune 500 company they would be either fired or put into the mail room. What a bunch of dickheads.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:11 pm#99 Unfortunately, Jerry, if they were execs they would get the old 50 million dollar golden parachute. Incompetence is now only a good way to get bought out of your contract.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:15 pmWho the hell cares what powell has to say! he was a good nazi and did as he was told!
November 29th, 2006 at 11:31 pm#101 I am torn. Yes, he was a good little pawn. But now, if he is willing to expose the Bushes I don’t think I want to complain.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:37 pmFor me to take whatever he says seriously, hemust firstly, get infront of the world and appologise for his mistakes, just like he went infront of the world in February 2003 and lied to them about Iraq’s yet-to-be-found WMD!!!
November 30th, 2006 at 5:24 am#83 You are wrong about my having never been a soldier and you are making a lot of assumptions based on a four line post. Of course you have a duty to your fellow soldiers and those who serve under you. A good leader looks out for the people who serve under him or her. It goes both ways.
November 30th, 2006 at 8:28 am#89 I’m not saying I know anything either. Thats why there needs to be a more thourough investigation after the war to determine exactly what was known and full responsibility. It may be quite some time before all the info comes out.
November 30th, 2006 at 8:31 amYou all are funny …..
HELLO !!! NONE OF THIS MATTERS AS LONG AS THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS OCCUPIED BY ZIONIST AGENTS FOR ISRAEL.
Look at how many top people in the U.S. Government have dual citizenship with the U.S. and Israel … and then look at how much $$$ AIPAC gives to members of Congress ….
The Center of American power is not D.C. but Tel Aviv
November 30th, 2006 at 8:44 amCollen Powell shows why he should never have been commissioned as an
officer or appointed to the cabinet.
I must presume that Affirmative Action was the cause.
November 30th, 2006 at 8:56 amSure , they use affirmative action for cabinet post.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:20 am107. Huh? Bold type and a bold opinion. But just like a$$holes, everybody has one. And yours is full of sh*t
November 30th, 2006 at 9:47 amPresident Bush is the biggest douche ever… I wouldn’t have trusted him to manage a McDonald’s… but Colin Powell isn’t that bad of a guy… he did a good job serving the American public under many administrations. There’s nothing he could have said or done to stop the war.
If anyone is to blame it’s the people that voted for Bush and all the conservatives in this country that use fear tactics and accuse pacifists as being unpatriotic for simply asking questions.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:20 amShame, shame, shame on you Colin Powell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 30th, 2006 at 3:13 pmYeah because when it comes to interpreting evidence presented about the state of Iraq, Powell is your man.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:02 amPretty good on doing the presentation too.
Comics of mobile bio-labs on the floor of the UN ring any bells ? Most significant diplomatic justification for the invasion ? No ?
TRIANGLE FOR US POWER =
AIPAC OWNS CONGRESS
ADL INSULATES ZIONSTS FROM CRITICISM
CHRISTIAN RIGHT IS USED AS PAWNS FOR ISRAEL
December 1st, 2006 at 8:32 ampowell was at once time a person to be admired, smoozing with bush has caused him to lose his morals and integrity.
December 1st, 2006 at 1:03 pmwho gives a sh#t what he thinks now.
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December 1st, 2006 at 8:02 pm[…] News is just pouring in and overwhelming today. I think an important story is getting lost. I’m not saying it is more important than civil war in Iraq or deterioration in Darfur. No. Those stories rip my heart out every day. The days of Colin Powell’s acceptance of Pottery Barn foreign policy are over. (He says it’s a civil war.) I think more time is being spent on the vocabulary of uncontrolled violence than on the violence itself. Death and suffering are difficult to face, but they are there. We need to SEE it without allowing ourselves to turn away. […]
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:52 pmUnderstand President Bush I disliked Bolton so much I asked Christ to kill him, you’re firing him most likely saved his life. Now the Vice president I asked God to make it vacant quickly in order for the third ruler to be in line to take over in preparation for Hillary to run in 2008 she will be Prime minister and the third ruler (speaker of the house) also a woman will be spared from an automatic death sentence from God for being a democrat. Only those covered under the Hidden Book receive any protection formely reserved for paid religionist now the leaders of both government aand churches will suffer under the same demonic control they left all america under. on paper 70,0000 murders a year happened in USA only half ever get charged against someone. 35,000 unsolved murders each year guarantees that demons who kill (men women, children}have enough pratice to take care of government and church leaders. The judgment from Christ for 200 million dead Americans stands (don’t try to surpress this or it will just increase the number of dead make the judgment greater) until everyone receives the Hidden Book last chapter click on here plus letter to you on internet click on here and automatic death sentence for paid religionist click on here in their mail boxes. If you have kept the information suppressed about the fifty thousand ministers being killed in their church by demon controlled people as a political policy then the counting of those dead ministers only begins when their deaths are published which means you not me increased the number of dead ministers. Islamic paid religionist should also be notified since the Punishment for false islamic teachers is much greater than christian false ministers Mohammad will kill at least 200,000 world wide click on
December 5th, 2006 at 1:46 pmThis knowledge once released will stop all suicide bombings cold. The suggestion from Christ for the New UN ABASSADOR from USA is Bubba Clinton Christ wants him to keep on redeeming himself for the African mess on his watch as a strong supporter for humanitarian aid. Have aa nice day. Love edward called Enoch by Christ.
Question Is this God’s Will? To destroy George Bush and his government because it seems like too much fun to be true? President Bush: I told you when This Iraq government was created to be ready for its fall. I told you not believe or trust the Man you picked because he was willing to do anything you wanted to be in charge. I told you the paid religionist was the real power in Iraq only by bringing them on board did you have any hope of success. You have done one thing real well disobeyed every suggestion Christ had me send you for the demon controlling your mind. You thought business interest would maintain peace in a nation filled with religious zealots waiting for the chance to commit a sucide attack to get even & out of the Hell the west created for them since the end of World War II. If it was not so tragic it would be funny.
Did anyone here watch the Larry King show on which President and Mrs. Bush appeared? Bush intended to find a way to go into Iraq the day he took the oath of office. He stated on Larry King that he would have gone in with or without WMD.
Bush was going after Hussein for a number of reasons, the least of which was the assassination plan by Hussein against his father.
Powell would have known all of these things upon accepting the State position. Has anyone here read Powell’s quotes on the UN appearance?
I thought not…
January 5th, 2007 at 1:52 amthere shouldn’t be a god damn war in iraq!! i hope that these people dying out there will haunt bush for the rest of his life! I read Powell’s quotes on the UN appearance and he can suck bush’s dick for all i care! The United States is a great nation don’t get me wrong, too bad it is run by a bunch of idiots and morons. If they were executives of a large fortune 500 company they would be either fired or put into the mail room. What a bunch of dickheads. I will provide powell with due respect if and when he tells the truth about the run up to the war. You act as if powell has redeemed himself with his current comments. How so? He speaks now an obvious truth and you want to instantly forgive and forget his past transgressions, which contributed to the invasion that has costs the lives of well over a half million humans, and prop him up as a credible and reliable voice? I’m curious, if it was your daughter, or sister, or mother who died as a result of the deception and consequent actions that this man was not just a participant in, but the lead public salesman for, would you be so quick to bow down again at this man’s alter? The american people wonder why their politicians are devious and deceptive. I would be willing to bet that if this man ran for president, with his best caring and trustworthy facade put in front of the people, that you would vote for him. I don’t recall the name of the governor who made the claim about it taking him being caught with a dead girl or live boy for him to lose the election. Seems, though, that the phrase needs to be updated to include “in the last five minutes†in order to accurately reflect the current american public’s gullibility. If you buy a lemon from a used car salesman, you can justifiably look upon that salesman with disdain. If you go back to that same salesman and buy another car from them, you get exactly what you deserve and are fully responsible. And, I might add, you also forfeit your right to claim that you were swindled or even complain at all. If it is your choice to give powell credibility, so be it. But are you really now going to offer up your credibility in his defense? Good luck to you on that. However, all I see is an unrepentant liar and murderer. powell would have much work and effort to do in order to gain any respect or credibility with me. But I guess that’s just me. Literally. With no disrespect here’s the man who openly lied to the UN for the Bush Administration. Powell knew the leaders didn’t believe Bush so he told the lied and asked them to trust him at his word. Now he wants to start telling the truth. Powell is just as guilty as the rest of his so called friends in letting thousands of young men/women die for White House greed. At lease we know Bush is a coward, drunk and idiot. Cheney scared to serve his country with 5 deferments. Rummy living in the FDR days. But Powell was a military man who knew what would happen to our troops and did nothing about it. Powell is no hero in my book just another suck up for money so he can talk to the hand the ears aren’t listening.
Thank you for listening and i hope you all understand my concern.
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