“Casey Sheehan’s Sergeant asked for volunteers. Sheehan had just returned from Mass. After Sheehan volunteered once, the Sergeant asked Sheehan again if he wanted to go on the mission. According to many reports (and according to his own mother), Casey responded, “Where my Chief goes, I go.”

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/08/army_specialist.html

Dedicated or disillusioned?

I agree, although I don’t know, in this thread at least, what we could move on to. I can only make assumptions about Casey based on the facts. Here are some letters from Casey Sheehan, but I don’t really think you can read into them very much. The letters are at the end of the article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/03/20/INGIGBNC46129.DTL

Comment by Tracy —

My whole point was that you are in no more position to infer about Casey Sheehan’s feelings during his last weeks of life than I am. Get it? I think his mother may (and mind you, I write “may”–not “definitely”) have known more than you and I. However, if you don’t agree, that’s your business, just as it is my right to tend to believe his mother more than you. Okay? Can we move on?

Sorry about that. I will do that from now on as long as you do the same and respect his choices and not infer what you “feel” his he might have been thinking after he re-enlisted.

Comment by Tracy —

Hey, please show some respect for the late Casey Sheehan–a “he” (ie. “his mother”)–not “her mother,” okay?

“In May 2000, Sheehan enlisted in the United States Army as a light-wheeled vehicle mechanic, MOS 63B.”

Which means he was serving in his first commitment in the Army from May 2000 untill untill he decided to re-enlist in August 2003. Enlisted serve a minimum of 2 years to max 6 years with four years being the most common. before choosing to re-enlist.

“Near the end of his tour of duty, the US invasion of Iraq began. Sheehan re-enlisted, knowing that his unit would be sent to Iraq[citation needed].”

My dates are not wrong and as your quote says, AFTER the invasion began Casey Sheehan’s tour of duty ended after the invasion began and then he re-enlisted in August 2003.

“Moreover, as I pointed out in #194, Sheehan re-enlisted after serving in the US–not in Iraq. It is quite possible that he got disillusioned after going over there, but that is something neither you nor I can boldly assert either way.”

Right, but give the man some credit in choosing to engage in something that he definately was on board with at the time he re-enlisted. BTW only her mother was the only one that we know who became “disillusioned” with the war.

“And you see no hypocrisy in calling the Iraq War a “noble cause,” while choosing not to have any family members fight in it?”

Those kid are not joining the military not to serve because the Iraqi war isn’t noble. They are choosing not to serve because they don’t want to be in the military. Again in any of the conflicts in the 1990s where troops were sent there wasn’t any more or less congressional leaders children serving than there currently are now.

“In May 2000, Sheehan enlisted in the United States Army as a light-wheeled vehicle mechanic, MOS 63B. It has been reported that he had originally considered enlisting as a Chaplain’s assistant MOS 56M. (Sheehan had acted as an altar server during the Palm Sunday mass on the morning of his death).[3]

Near the end of his tour of duty, the US invasion of Iraq began. Sheehan re-enlisted, knowing that his unit would be sent to Iraq[citation needed]. Sheehan’s division, the First Cavalry Division, was sent to Iraq. On March 19, 2004, Sheehan’s unit, Charlie Battery, 1st Battalion , 82nd Field Artillery Regiment arrived at FOB War Eagle in Sadr City. Just a few weeks later, on April 4, 2004, Sheehan was killed in action after volunteering as part of a Quick Reaction Force to rescue American troops.”

In other words, your dates appear to be all wrong. Moreover, as I pointed out in #194, Sheehan re-enlisted after serving in the US–not in Iraq. It is quite possible that he got disillusioned after going over there, but that is something neither you nor I can boldly assert either way. To borrow your own words, ” if you were truel(SIC) objective,” you would stop trying to put words and attribute ideas to people you don’t know nor have ever met, ranging from telling all of us who don’t agree with Bush things like we “want Al Qaeda to win” to trying to speak for the late Casey Sheehan.

Comment by Tracy

And you see no hypocrisy in calling the Iraq War a “noble cause,” while choosing not to have any family members fight in it? There were, after all, Democrats who voted invading Iraq; Lincoln Chafee was the only Republican Senator who did.

“n any case, it was neither Gore nor Clinton (whom you just can’t get over) nor Rangel who started a pre-emptive war in a country that did not attack us.”

Clinton and NATO bombed the Serbians who didn’t “attack” the U.S. or any other NATO county led to the removal of Milosivic from power. NATO did not have the backing of the UN Security Council nor was their ANY resolution authorizing the bombing. Now I agreed with NATO’s actions to put a stop to the genocide, but even Bush had a UN Resolution that authorized far more in the way of military action against Iraq than Clinton or NATO did against the Serbians.

“Moreover, you haven’t answered my question if anyone in the current administration or GOP Congressional leadership has family members fighting for the “noble cause” in Iraq. ”

I did a while back (#187) by saying it was the same reason the 99.9% of the members of congress Democrat or Republican don’t have sons or daughter serving, i.e. like everyone in this country they CHOOSE not to.

I don’t need to check out Ann Coulter’s website; I actually believe you on this point. However, there are some websites on which her columns appear that do not have spaces for Comments. Check them out if you want to call me “liar.”
The Wikipedia article also mentions that Gore was sometimes a field reporter. That may have put him close to danger, but I will not insist on that point now you have at least admitted that Bush’s military service is no more impressive than Gore’s. In any case, it was neither Gore nor Clinton (whom you just can’t get over) nor Rangel who started a pre-emptive war in a country that did not attack us. Moreover, you haven’t answered my question if anyone in the current administration or GOP Congressional leadership has family members fighting for the “noble cause” in Iraq.

“I have just checked the jewishworldreview website, a conservative site with both Jewish and several non-Jewish columnist and where I sometimes read Ann Coulter’s blog in the past. I could still not find a space for Comments.”

Then check out HER web site. Again here it is, if you didn’t bother the first time.

http://chat.anncoulter.com/phpBB2/

“Bien Hoa Air Base near Saigon”

“With its close proximity to the international airport at Saigon, Bien Hoa Air Base was the easiest tactical air base to be reached by visiting news reporters, and therefore it received the greatest amount of news and photographic coverage during the war.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bien_Hoa_Air_Base

Like I said not near any danger. My uncle was fighter pilot in Vietnam i the 3rd TFW and flew many missions from this well protected airfield.

“who was actually sometimes within shooting range,…”

From this airbase he was NEVER in shooting range. Bush and Al Gore did as much to defend against the “enemy” as you or I have.

Comment by robert — December 1, 2006 @ 10:26 am

True but it was the draft that raised the alarm bells of the middle class and forced Americans to wake up and stand up for eachother. Right now the Soldiers in Iraq are out of sight and out of mind and most Americans are distracted by trival crap like whether or not Madonna is adopting another baby or who won Dancing with the Stars. A draft might not drag in all the rich kids but it will prevent Amerians from being lulled into complacency which is precisely why the corporate war machine doesn’t display images of war on network tv or the coffins coming back draped with flags and why Republicans don’t want a draft. They want to keep us barefoot and pregnant while they siphon tax dollars and wage corporate wars abroad.

If you want to insist that George W. Bush put himself more in harm’s way by protecting Houston from the Vietcong than Al Gore who was actually sometimes within shooting range, I won’t even try to convince you otherwise. Enjoy the Kool-Aid.

“Ps. I have no idea how old Rangel’s son and daughter are.”

They would both eligible for the draft if were to come back. I think they are both in their early 30s.

“So how does that compare with the “records” of Dumbya and Dickhead–not to mention all the other chickenhawks so prevalent in this administration?”

It’s much better, but Bush has a much better military service record that BJ Clinton. Oh, I forgot he doesn’t have one! And not to mention Al Gore’s five month Vietnam service record as a war opposition journalist, in which he was never in a live combat zone.

http://www.rightgrrl.com/carolyn/goreserve.html

“Still, I wonder on what basis Tracy can state this–twice, in fact. Did Tracy ever meet Sheehan’s late son Casey?”

Casey Sheehan was sent to Iraq initally in March 2003 and then he RE-ENLISTED in August 2003. That pretty much means that he believed in the job he was doing over there was “noble”.

“Finally, whether Cindy Sheehan was accurately representing the late Casey’s feelings or not, she is certainly entitled to express her own.”

ABSOLUTELY and I had no problem with it or have one currently.

“Or, like Newt Gingrich, does Tracy feel the Constitutional right to free speech ought to be reconsidered and perhaps abolished?”

Just because I disagree with her trying to pass off her feelings as her son’s own doesn’t mean that I think she should be silenced. That’s reserved for our tolerant liberal universities where “free thinking” is supposed to fostered, but as we all know that isn’t the case.

http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/1999/march_1999_2.html

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=11426

And if you are wondering how I came the conclusion that most universities are liberal….

http://www.leadershipinstitute.org/resources/resourcesmain.cfm?section=bluecampus

“I believe Rangel suggests reinstating the draft, specifically because it would equalize the social classes in the military–in other words, making the richer class to join in the sacrifice for this supposedly “noble cause.””

That’s not what Rangel himself said. He want’s to reinstate the draft so under the assumption that if everyone, including the children of congressmen and congresswomen, would be less likely to commit troops to any type of military engagement.

“I myself haven’t tried to post on rightwing websites, but most of the ones I have looked at in the past, such as Ann Coulter’s, don’t even have spaces soliciting for comments.”

Well you either are lying or actually haven’t been to her web site to make such a statement LOL!. There is a chat room, but like many blogs you have to register.

http://chat.anncoulter.com/phpBB2/

Eric Alterman on the other hand use to have a blog (LOL! if you wanted to call it one) on MSNBC and I had posted dozens of comments but they obviously went thru a screener first and only the ones the HE wanted to be posted were, i.e. 99.9% of them were those either praising him or they were in line with his left wing politics.

“Also, several posters here have mentioned being banned from certain other neo-con sites. I tend to believe them; but if you can prove this wrong, I will certainly accept it.”

LOL! I think if you were truely objective that you would demand that the prove their claim about being banned on conservative sites is right! BTW this hypocritical blog has a “terms of use” page that says…

“You agree not to:
• Post any messages or provide links to any messages that endorse or oppose a particular political party or candidate for office.
• Post any private information or otherwise harvest, collect or disclose information, about another Blogger without his or her express consent.
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• Post any content to the Blog that infringes any third-party’s intellectual property or other rights.
• Use the Blog for any unlawful purpose, or transmit or otherwise make available in connection with the Blog any material that would give rise to criminal or civil liability.
• Use the Blog for advertisements, chain letters, “spamming,” survey solicitations, junk mail or solicitations.
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• Imply that APAF endorses any of your statements or positions.
• Transmit any harmful, invasive or disruptive code or other materials (such as viruses, worms or web bugs) through or to the Blog, or otherwise “hack” or deface any portion of the Blog.
• Frame or mirror any part of the Blog without our prior written authorization.”

http://thinkprogress.org/terms

…well we all know how useless and hypocritical this part of TP’s web site is! LOL!