Bush Kneecaps Iraq Study Group: There Will Be No ‘Graceful Exit From Iraq’
Bush Kneecaps Iraq Study Group: There Will Be No ‘Graceful Exit From Iraq’
The Iraq Study Group will release its recommendations on Dec. 6. The New York Times reports that the commission will “will call for a gradual pullback of the 15 American combat brigades now in Iraq but stop short of setting a firm timetable for their withdrawal.”
Today, in a joint press conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, Bush sought to dismiss the commission’s recommendations before they have been officially released. Bush said, “I know there’s a lot of speculation that these reports in Washington mean there’s going to be some kind of graceful exit out of Iraq. We’re going to stay in Iraq to get the job done.” Watch it:
Transcript:
BUSH: So we’ll be in Iraq until the job is complete, at the request of a sovereign government elected by the people. I know there’s a lot of speculation that these reports in Washington mean there’s going to be some kind of graceful exit out of Iraq. We’re going to stay in Iraq to get the job done, so long as the government wants us there.
We want the people of Iraq to live in a free society. It’s in our interests. In my judgment, if we were to leave before the job is done, it would only embolden terrorists, it would only embolden the extremists. It would dash the hopes of millions of people who want to live in a free society, just like the 12 million people who voted in the Iraqi election. They want to live in a free society. And we support this government, because the government understands it was elected by the people. And Prime Minister Maliki is working hard to overcome the many obstacles in the way to a peaceful Iraq, and we want to help him.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
“There will be no graceful exit from Iraq”. Was that a Freudian slip? Any one with an I.Q. barely above 100 knows that the exit from Iraq will be “disgraceful”.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:57 am“To get the job done”. Uh, what is this job? You’re doin’ a heck of a job Georgie!
November 30th, 2006 at 9:58 amAnd Rumsfeld will remain the Sec. of Def.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:58 am“I know there’s a lot of speculation that these reports in Washington mean there’s going to be some kind of graceful exit out of Iraq. We’re going to stay in Iraq to get the job done.â€
Heh heh, Ah don’t do nothin’ graceful, heh heh. F*ck the troops, ah do what ah want, heh heh.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:01 amI know there’s a lot of speculation that these reports in Washington mean there’s going to be some kind of graceful exit out of Iraq. We’re going to stay in Iraq to get the job done, so long as the government wants us there.
What better way to say “Impeach me.”
November 30th, 2006 at 10:01 amWe want the people of Iraq to live in a free society. It’s in our interests.
What about the people of Iraq, King George the Incurious? Remember them? What about their interests?
November 30th, 2006 at 10:02 amAnd Prime Minister Maliki is working hard to overcome the many obstacles in the way to a peaceful Iraq, and we want to help him.
Prime Minister Maliki, from backstage: Please! Stop helping!
November 30th, 2006 at 10:03 amNo graceful entrance and no graceful exit.
Apply this to all:
November 30th, 2006 at 10:05 amBush
Iraq War
Rumsfeld
Republican Congress
Pelosi are you listening? This is why this man must be impeached. We must rid our nation of this PNC/Straussian/Neo-Con Cancer. And when we’re done with Bush with move on to Cheney.
I hope Waxman and Conyers are ready to begin investigating every single criminal act.
Bush is a Scopath. Sociopaths and can’t be dealt/reasoned with. Treatment almost always fails. A socipath is a person without a conscience:
Antisocial Personality Disorder is chronic, beginning in adolescence
and continuing throughout adulthood. There are ten general
symptoms:
-not learning from experience
-no sense of responsibility
-inability to form meaningful relationships
-inability to control impulses
-lack of moral sense
-chronically antisocial behavior
-no change in behavior after punishment
-emotional immaturity
-lack of guilt
-self-centeredness
People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior. They may
not work. If they do work, they are frequently absent or may quit
suddenly. They do not consider other people’s wishes, welfare or
rights. They can be manipulative and may lie to gain personal
pleasure or profit. They may default on loans, fail to provide child
support, or fail to care for their dependents adequately. High risk
sexual behavior and substance abuse are common. Impulsiveness,
failure to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability, irresponsibility,
and a reckless disregard for their own safety and the safety of
others are traits of the antisocial personality.
Socioeconomic status, gender, and genetic factors play a role.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:07 amMales are more likely to be antisocial than females. Those from
lower socioeconomic groups are more susceptible. A family history
of the disorder puts one at higher risk.
WE need more writers to help on this. Get the word out!
November 30th, 2006 at 10:07 am“Iraq has ties to Al-Queida”
“Iraq has WMDs”
“Cheney and Rumsfeld will stick it out until the end of my term.”
“Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job.”
“The Terrorists want a change in democratic leadership in America.”
and now….
“We’re staying to get the job done.”
Tell me why this should mean ANYTHING to us?
November 30th, 2006 at 10:09 amwonder who the bushwhore’s work for? they are anti american
November 30th, 2006 at 10:11 amand their executive branch are actively involved in treason. I’m guessing they are agents of a foreign power. what’s new
Tell me why this should mean ANYTHING to us?
Comment by Swordsbane
Those things mean something, Swordsbane, just nothing good. They also mean we need to get that idiot out of there before he destroys the whole world.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:12 amnot learning from experience
-no sense of responsibility
-inability to form meaningful relationships
-inability to control impulses
-lack of moral sense
-chronically antisocial behavior
-no change in behavior after punishment
-emotional immaturity
-lack of guilt
-self-centeredness
Wait wait wait… he’s not antisocial. I hear he’s pleasant to talk to… kind of like a retarded child. Then again, maybe Cheney’s using ths shock collar again to keep him “playing nice”
November 30th, 2006 at 10:14 am“Of course there will be no graceful exit, we’ll do it exactly the same way we did it from the roof of the US embassy in Saigon 30 years ago…..”
November 30th, 2006 at 10:17 am“go it alone” Bush.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:17 amSwordsbane,
GWB’s exchange with Jim Webb (ThinkFast thread 11/29), that was antisocial.
These freaks can fake it, you know.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:17 amI don’t know…there’s nothing quite as serene as a helicopter overladen with desperate people barely making it off the roof of the US embassy in Baghdad just as the insurgents break down the gate on the back of an Iranian tank…
November 30th, 2006 at 10:19 amIn Barack Obama’s book he relates the instance where Emperor Zero whipped around to get a glob of hand sanitizer, after shaking Obama’s hand in a receiving line, making a crack about “catching a cold or something”.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:23 amThat is anti-social, it is clearly mean spirited, and I doubt if KKKarl gave him the idea……….
And scenes shot in sepia tones, in slow motion, and with no sound… of the highway to the Bagdhad airport will have a horrid grace to them…………
November 30th, 2006 at 10:25 amI suspect there will be no graceful exit from the White House, either. I can picture him being dragged out by the ankles, screaming, grabbing at anything within reach, having his fingers pried loose from antique furniture. “No! No-o-o-o-o!!!” ” Laura… Mommy… Daddy… Barney!!! Help!!!!!”
November 30th, 2006 at 10:26 amThis is beyond what we should/can accept. He’s endangering all of us………….in serious serious ways. He is a rogue president gone wild. Our lives and futures are at stake. We, the American people, have to remove him and his thugs …..and SOON.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:26 amDear George & Dick,
You’re fired!
Dear Congress,
Kindly remove George Bush and Dick Cheney from the office of President of the U.S. since they have consistently demonstrated their incompetence and indifference to the will of We The People.
Thanks.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:33 amFlash!!
November 30th, 2006 at 10:36 am“Elmer” Cheney was spotted shopping in a south Georgia sporting goods store yesterday afternoon……. seems like he gave us the slip there in Talahassee……
Are ya stocking up on ammo, Unka Deadeye?
Or getting ready for a little war action?
Do they make ’scopes for yer fancy shotguns? Might help ya see what yer shootin’ at a little better…….
Maybe you just needed a new Hot Seat to keep your sorry ass warm when you get pooped out there long about 4 in the afternoon……….
He is mad. And he has lost whatever sense he might have had. He is not a dictator and the new democratically controlled congress will have to remind him of that - somehow.
What can the congress do to force him to chance his policies in Iraq? Does anyone know? Also, has anything at all been done to address the deepening civil war? Or the course changed in any manner, shape or form? Or is it just full speed ahead?
November 30th, 2006 at 10:36 amPoor little GDumbya. He is still flitting around the world meeting with people and speaking publicly as if he is in charge of anything.
The poor little twit still doesn’t realize that his Poppy took away his car keys and the American public took away his rubber-stamp Congress.
I sure hope that this worthless and irrelevant little piece of skin and bone has a Merry Christmas because he is in for a very rude awakening in 2007.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:38 amTest
November 30th, 2006 at 10:39 amHe is mad. And he has lost whatever sense he might have had.
Comment by roger_inkart
I don’t think he’s mad, roger, I think he simply does not give a shit — on any level. Maybe that is madness…
November 30th, 2006 at 10:40 amThe solution to this warmonger’s continued misadventures in the Middle East is to CUT OFF FUNDING in the first 100 hours. No $ to the War Department. Then rescind the resolution which permitted the illegal invasion of Iraq. Then proceed to impeach, which will take longer.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:42 amSome words come to my mind regarding George Bush:
Insane
Incompetent
Delusional
Selfish
Stubborn
Witless
Uninformed
Uncaring
Thoughtless
Heartless
Senseless
Foolish
Crazy
Maniacal
Petulant
Unreasonable
Vile
Dumb
Stupid
Retarded
If anyone can think of more, feel free to add to this list.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:43 amBush and the Neocons are just out of ideas. They can’t believe that their policies — that they’ve stewed over and put forth the American people for the past 20 years — have finally come to fruition and nothing works as they predicted.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:48 amPrime Minister Maliki is working hard to overcome the many obstacles in the way to a peaceful Iraq, and we want to help him.
Obstacles = Those pesky Sunnis who outlawed, murdered, and forced into exile Maliki, Hakim, et al who are now holding the reins of power in Iraq vis-s-vis Al Dawa, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution of Iraq, and Muqtada Al Sadr.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:48 am“we’ll be in Iraq until the job is complete”
The whole “coalition of the willing” is falling apart.
As Tonto said to The Lone Ranger… “What do you mean “we”, paleface?
November 30th, 2006 at 10:48 amWell, at least not you, then why use the word “we”? Thats why you have to picked up Jordan instead of Iraq to meet Maliki. Brave Commander-in-Chief, right there.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:48 amUnqualified
November 30th, 2006 at 10:48 amBrainless
Arrogant
Dangerous
Self-Absorbed (can I use compounds?)
Childish
Anti-Christ
Hey everybody.Only control of Congress was changed, not the Executive branch.To expect Bush or Cheney to change how they do things after 5 years is totally unrealistic.These people are convinced the Executive answers to nobody-Congress,the voters ,the Baker Iraq Study Group-nobody.This will continue until the next president is sworn in, and not a day sooner. Also, to those of you talking about impeachment-fugedaboudit!To impeach anyone there must be an investigation and all the President has to do to halt any investigation is to deny the investigators clearance to look into anything (exactly what happened when the Justice Dept back in March looked into NSA wiretapping-no clearance so investigation stymied)
November 30th, 2006 at 10:54 amWell it appears TP has banned me, perhaps because of some comments I made about them loving the Jews a little too much, and never posting bad things about them.
Want to solve half the problems in the middle east, move those friggen jews to Texas, declare it Israel.
We know what money is paying for this website don’t we?
ThinkProgress my ass, think censorship, you people on the left are just as bad as the right, why won’t Pelosi impeach? Simple you noodle heads, she’s paid off, blackmailed, what ever it takes by the World Bank, those same people who run our Federal Reserve.
Wand to truly fix the US & World?
1> BAN ALL RELIGION - It’s stupid to believe.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:54 am2> SHUT DOWN IRS & FEDERAL RESERVE
3> LASTLY NOT LEAST, TP CAN TONGUE MY DUMPER!
Bush Kneecaps Iraq Study Group: There Will Be No ‘Graceful Exit From Iraq’
Thanks to who, again?
November 30th, 2006 at 10:55 am37. Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the political spectrum?
November 30th, 2006 at 11:04 amThe decider will decide when the job is done.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:15 amMebbe what that there Iraq Research Group SHOULDA done was decide what the “job” IS so then we could all KNOW when it will be done!
And how.
And why.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:16 amNo one will make it stop.
In the immortal words of C3PO, “We’re doomed!”
November 30th, 2006 at 11:16 am37, Many of us here also suspect they’ve “gotten to” Pelosi. But we’ll give her opportunity to prove us wrong. If we suspect she’s acting in her own self interest/or the interest of corporate America we’ll go after her with venom. So please don’t say we’re as bad as the right wing loonies. They support blindly and never criticize. Most of us here are Pro-Constitution pro-Bill of Rights FIRST, Progressive or Independent Second.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:17 amNo graceful exit because there was no credible, graceful entry….this was a botched decision of humonguous proportions to even begin….fictional intelligence to defraud the people and the congress to give this cowboy the power of occupation of another country. This was a monumental error in judgment which this country will never recover in our lifetimes. Of course, there’s no graceful exit strategy; there never was a “strategy” of any kind to begin with so why fester about an exit strategy now? And exit strategy should have been part & parcel of the strategic plan for this war LONG BEFORE we even considered marching in there. To even further discuss this with any semblance of intelligence now is futile. It defies intelligent, cogent, logical thought processes because there never was a “plan”, an “enemy”, or even a loose definition of “victory”….it’s nothing more than a huge DEBACLE, an outrageous & illegal occupation and the descent of this country’s international and domestic image to levels it maintained 100 years ago. Just like Vietnam….there became a point of diminishing returns….and the people spoke out against what was happening and pressured the administration to take an about face.
This egomaniacal sociopath will never have the insight (mental illness?) to admit an error (he’s infallible, don’t you know?) and will dig this country in even deeper if given the opportunity…..just like he ran all of his businesses in the past into the ground.
Investigate, Impeach, and Indict - the only remedy to this debacle called Iraq! He’s drawn his line in the sand and will remain inflexible so he will have to be “removed by impeachment”. He’s really leaving the people no alternative now.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:22 am#36 Ken
To impeach anyone there must be an investigation and all the President has to do to halt any investigation is to deny the investigators clearance to look into anything (exactly what happened when the Justice Dept back in March looked into NSA wiretapping-no clearance so investigation stymied)
There’s a difference. He denied investigators clearance when there was a Republican-controlled Congress that wouldn’t challenge him on anything. The Dems have subpoena power now. They will investigate. If he tries to block investigations, then I guess they’ve got their grounds for impeachment.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:22 amAnd any of the lies listed above can be considered an “impeachable offense”….remember….Clinton Lied/Monica Sighed…..Bush Lied/Thousands Died - a huge difference here. Nixon Lied about illegal wiretapping….hello out there??? Let’s discuss the illegal wiretapping of citizens which has been going on for 5 years….long before he had any type of cockamamie immunity as he rammed in legislation to cover his ass, that is. He’s still culpable for all that was done before any new legislation.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:24 am#37 AnotherOneBitesTheDust
Well it appears TP has banned me
Gee, do you think it had anything to do with your being so vocal about hating Jews? Just a thought.
TP CAN TONGUE MY DUMPER!
They can’t. Your head’s in the way.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:25 amRemember: SUBPOENA POWER makes a huge difference!
November 30th, 2006 at 11:26 amNotice that little extra clause. W says “We’re going to stay to get the job done as long as they want us there“. It’s so fucking trasparent. W will say “They don’t want freedom and that’s their choice and we’re leaving.”
November 30th, 2006 at 11:27 am“Knee Caps”?
November 30th, 2006 at 11:27 amWouldn’t “Butt-F**ks be a more accurate term?
Bushit “Today we had a meeting that will accelerate the capacity for the prime minister to do the hard work necessary to help stop this violence.â€
November 30th, 2006 at 11:30 amHard work again…
Craparoonie. As if this jackanape ever knew what hard work is, was, or might have been!
APD must be second cousin to BPD with hallucinations….it’s definitely something to consider with continued actions we’ve seen. There’s definitely something very wrong with this man’s personality. I suspect serious psychiatric problems. He’s been medicated (from video evidence) since following the last election; I suspect his “jaunting around the world” right now is akin to “hiding out” (panic attacks anyone?)…which brings up a good point….he certainly had nothing resembling a panic attack while he sat reading My Pet Goat while people died in the WTC….hmmmm…sedated then? Or perhaps he knew his life was not in jeopardy? hmmmm…
. He can’t take the heat of the american people’s blatant rejection of him, his policies, and his personal level of corruption. Could be APD or BPD….alcoholism is part of the panoply of disorders associated with BPD …panic attacks fall into the same umbrella as well.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:31 am#30 + 35 - Hey, you forgot LIAR.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:35 amOne should be careful what they ask for - jokingly, he said that he doesn’t care if all he has left in his camp would be Laura and Barney - well, it’s beginning to look like that statement was quite prophetic. And, of course, Laura and Barney are being paid for and fed by him so that’s really a no brainer at all.
Mom and Pappy must be mortally humiliated by this misanthrope’s actions in the past and his continued personality disorder manifesting itself. Even old, broken down Pappy can’t fix that.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:35 am#30 #…you forgot the best of them all: INCORRIGIBLY EVIL
November 30th, 2006 at 11:38 amI don’t know, veritas, rumor has it that Barney may be putting in a resignation soon.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:38 am#60 - Would that ol’ Barney would turn on him and chomp his hand. Dogs have this sense of whose kind vs evil…Has anyone seen a picture of W cuddling ol barndogs?
November 30th, 2006 at 11:39 am54. Nevermind trying to decifer if the people fleeing are terrorist or just terrified people.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:40 amProcrastination, stay the course, or whatever you want to call it is what came out of today’s meeting in Jordon. Yet Bush expects different results this time around. At this point one has to wonder about the state of Bush’s mental health. This goes beyond mere stubborness.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:46 amIt appears that the changes to be proposed by the Iraq Study Group are so incremental as to be meaningless. Drawing down troops just means moving them onto the permanent superbases and keeping them there, ready for the invasion of Iran.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:47 amWe want the people of Iraq to live in a free society. It’s in our interests.
Then why isn’t Dafur in our interests? Just say it George. OIL
November 30th, 2006 at 11:48 amCAPTION:
“I’m a idiot”.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:49 amAnd what, does this idiot think “Shock and Awe” was a graceful entrance?
I think he should leave the White House the same way he entered… shamefully through the back door.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:50 amI am gravely concerned about the future of the USA. It seems, from an outside perspective, that the people have “spoken” and that the mandate is to “get out of Iraq”. But it also seems, very much so from the outside, that the USA has no intention of leaving Iraq and is also ramping up aggressively for more offensive military action, both in Iraq and also towards Iran.
I, much to the chagrin of many here, am very outspoken about my “opinions” in regard to the culpability of each and every citizen of the USA in regard to what I am convinced are criminal, immoral, and heinous activities by the USA and its military. The most common responses to my comments and challenges to your collective accountability have been that “we speak through our votes and our representatives” and “we are doing all we can”.
Putting aside my “opinions” about the validity of those responses for the moment, I have two questions: 1) How many here have contacted their representatives, both current and incoming, about an immediate and full withdrawal of your military from Iraq? And 2) How many here have contacted their representatives, both current and incoming, about your pending offensive military action against Iran?
Considering the stakes, I believe these to be incredibly pertinent and valid questions and would greatly appreciate specific and considered responses.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:50 amThe Madness of King George.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:56 amYou’ve seen the movie. Life imitates art.
Sixteen intel agencies, including the CIA and Mossad, have been telling Bush for over a year that staying in Iraq only hurts America and helps al Qaeda.
Doesn’t matter. Bush’s ego it too important, so it’s OK for him to go on hurting America and helping al Qaeda, just so long as he doesn’t have to admit he was wrong.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:00 pm.
No we have plenty of ideas left and up our sleeve
One wonders what you’ll screw up next, since you haven’t done anything right yet.
Then again, since you support the man who knows he’s only hurting American and helping al Qaeda, maybe screwing up America was the only “idea” y’all ever had.
It would make sense, since the right hates most of America outside their little trailer park.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:02 pm.
Should I or Shouldnt I? mmm…
Comment by Juan C
I would back you up, whatever you decide, Juan.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:04 pmThe Great Decider is correct and he, either through incompetence or Chrisitian fanaticism, has set the region on a course for a civil war that could easily blow up in his face and possibly draw Iran and Turkey and Saudi Arabia into it. The Rapture freaks are probably all working themselves into a tizzy.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:05 pm“We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly… (in) weeks rather than months.”
 Vice President Cheney [3/16/03].
The war “could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.”
 Rumsfeld [2/7/03].
“It’s hard to conceive that it would take more forces to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq than it would take to conduct the war itself and secure the surrender of Saddam’s security forces and his army. Hard to imagine.”
 Wolfowitz [2/27/2003].
Bush: US Troops Will Remain In Iraq…
November 30th, 2006 at 12:17 pm94. I’ll always converse with you. I have, in fact sent emails to my House rep and my senators regarding Iraq, Iran and several other issues. I will be sending more until I get an answer and I will probably send even more after that if the response is unsatisfactory.
Now answer my question. What do you think would happen if we immediately withdrew from Iraq?
I am not for this conflict and I am disgusted by the carnage. I also know that an enormous power vaccum will be created if we do just leave. This is in no way a show of support for Bush. It’s an understanding of the current situation.
I have answered your question. Now answer mine. Please don’t include fables or analogies.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:31 pmGood news: Bush finally announces his “adapt to win” strategy!
Bad news: The “new” strategy is STAY THE COURSE, v.2.0.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:32 pm#77, Humanist: I have two questions: 1) How many here have contacted their representatives, both current and incoming, about an immediate and full withdrawal of your military from Iraq? And 2) How many here have contacted their representatives, both current and incoming, about your pending offensive military action against Iran?
Excellent questions!
I have. It is easy. All one needs to do is go to their representatives website and fill out a form.
What about you?
Assuming you are from a democratic country……
How exactly have you been in contact with the representatives in your country?
What consequences have your proposed to your representatives if they do not act on your concerns in regard to the immediate and full withdrawal of the US military from Iraq
What consequences have your proposed to your representatives if they do not act in regard to the pending offensive military action against Iran?
November 30th, 2006 at 12:33 pmIt’s all one great big stage play ran by the elite of the world.Nancy works for the same skull and bones jerks as Kerry and Bush and Carter and Clinton.”Keep them entertained while we trample their rights” So simple.Ladies and Gentlemen” Iran just fired a russian made nuke at us”Details right after the football game”Could the South American president be in on this”We’ll clue you in right after this message from male enhancment for men over sixty.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:34 pm1) How many here have contacted their representatives, both current and incoming, about an immediate and full withdrawal of your military from Iraq? And 2) How many here have contacted their representatives, both current and incoming, about your pending offensive military action against Iran?
Peace.
Comment by Humanist
I have! But I live in Idaho, so I might as well spit in the wind.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:43 pmHumanist - Every month, sometimes twice a month, the honorable Jay Inslee and I have this conversation.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:44 pmI, much to the chagrin of many here, am very outspoken about my “opinions†in regard to the culpability of each and every citizen of the USA in regard to what I am convinced are criminal, immoral, and heinous activities by the USA and its military
Humanist, this is another example of your absolutist thinking. Each and every citizen? Does that include the children? How about people in nursing homes, or the mentally disabled? How about the millions of Americans who have dedicated a lot of money and time to fighting the Bush administration? Does that include George Soros? Does that include all the grandmothers-for-peace organizations forming out there? If Paul Wellstone were alive, would that include him?
You badly undercut your message, and indeed your moral authority, when you make these blanket smears against all Americans.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:45 pmHumanist,
And, by the way, answer your own questions. I don’t answer loaded questions from holier-than-thou moralizing jerks.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:46 pmHumanist, answer these questions:
1. What country do you live in, and what is your nationality/citizenship?
November 30th, 2006 at 12:59 pm2. What are you doing to stop or reverse the wrongs perpetrated by whatever you regard to be your home country.
And while you are answering those questions, quit dodging my other questions, like whether you think children are culpable for the actions of the Bush administration.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:01 pm#107
It’s been great, Humanist. I’ve so enjoyed this discussion. I know they weren’t my questions, but I thought RealScientist posed some good ones for you. How about answering them, your lordship?
November 30th, 2006 at 1:03 pm#104-RealScientist,
In sports, when a team loses a game or a match or a tournament, there are two approaches to identifying responsibility for the loss:
1. It was the fault of one player, or the coach, or a call by the official, or a myriad of other excuses that focus on an individual.
2. The entire team and its coaching staff take responsibility for the loss.
Which do you subscribe to?
And when I say “americans” I mean every american adult who is mentally competent. If you feel that I need to be that specific I will use such terminology henceforth.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:04 pmIn sports, when a team loses a game or a match or a tournament, there are two approaches to identifying responsibility for the loss:
Humanist, this analogy is, quite frankly, stupid. Your two choices amount to a false dichotomy, by the way. I see you are incapable of dealing with shades of gray. But it is obvious that subtlety isn’t your forte.
And when I say “americans†I mean every american adult who is mentally competent. If you feel that I need to be that specific I will use such terminology henceforth.
You should have been this specific to begin with if that is what you meant. But I want to point out that you dodged most of my questions. Very chickensh*t of you.
By the way, when do you graduate from junior high school?
November 30th, 2006 at 1:12 pm113. your assumption is faulty. You assume that the two teams are equals when they meet on the playing field. Are they equal in quality of players? Qualities of plays being called? Quality of the playing field? Try again.
In sports there are superior teams, superior players and superior coaches. Same goes for countrys.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:16 pm#107, Humanist: So, has anyone else done anything?
What about you?
Other than looking into the hand mirror and urging action from Americans while on TP, what have you done ?
Assuming you are from a democratic country……
How exactly have you been in contact with the representatives in your country?
What consequences have your proposed to your representatives if they do not act on your concerns in regard to the immediate and full withdrawal of the US military from Iraq
What consequences have your proposed to your representatives if they do not act in regard to the pending offensive military action against Iran?
November 30th, 2006 at 1:18 pmThat’s okay: there was no graceful entry into Iraq either.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:18 pm#109-RealScientist,
As you wish, here are the very specific answers that you seek:
1. What country do you live in, and what is your nationality/citizenship?
I live in the USA, in the state of California. Although I am a native (to both locales), I am the result of a union between an Italian and Portuguese americans, both 2nd generation. My citizenship status is in limbo. I began the process of renouncing my citizenship on March 19, 2003.
2. What are you doing to stop or reverse the wrongs perpetrated by whatever you regard to be your home country.
I have always considered the Earth as my home country. Home is where the heart is and I have friends and relatives in Portugal, Italy, USA, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Sweden, Britain, New Zealand, Australia, Germany, Korea, Vietnam, Russia, Finland, Japan, and, actually, the list goes on and is ever expanding. I have not yet been forced to choose “one” in my renouncement process. Currently the Earth is perpetrating no wrongs. However, there are substantial and grievous wrongs being perpetrated upon it.
I hope that answers your questions.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:20 pm#77, Humanist: I, much to the chagrin of many here, am very outspoken about my “opinions†in regard to the culpability of each and every citizen of the USA in regard to what I am convinced are criminal, immoral, and heinous activities by the USA and its military.
In this era of Globalism, how are you not guilty of the criminal, immoral, and heinous activities performed by the USA and its military?
As a humanitarian and citizen of a world without borders, how are you not guilty of the criminal, immoral, and heinous activities performed by the USA and its military?
As a humanitarian and citizen of a world without borders, what exactly are you doing to stop the criminal, immoral, and heinous activities performed by the USA and its military?
Please be specific: I wish to read of your ACTION.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:25 pmHumanist,
I have always considered the Earth as my home country (snip) Currently the Earth is perpetrating no wrongs.
In other words you are doing nothing. Hypocrite. I would tell you put down your bong for a minute, but I don’t want to slander the many fine and intelligent pot smokers of the world.
What a load of crap.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:27 pm#118-goodscarrier,
What I have done is made a conscious decision to not participate in or contribute to what I believe to be a heinous atrocity perpetrated by the USA against humanity. The ramifications of which are not yet fully determined but will almost certainly include expulsion from my home with the possibility of returning only for the funerals of my immediate family.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:27 pmI began the process of renouncing my citizenship on March 19, 2003.
Be sure to check with Mommy and Daddy before you attempt this.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:30 pm#120, Humanist
You are an American!
You bash Americans and have renounced your US citizenship due to your fellow citizens’ inaction in regard to the carnage in Iraq?
You are inciting Americans to uprise BUT you have in fact failed to uprise yourself?
You have asked who has contacted their representatives BUT then fail to admit that you have in fact contacted your representatives?
November 30th, 2006 at 1:34 pmDefinition of Insanity:
To continually keep doing the same thing expecting different results.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:34 pm#122-goodscarrier,
As a member of the human race and a resident of the planet Earth, I am a responsible member of that community. In regard to the criminal, immoral, and heinous activities being carried out by the USA and its military, I am attempting any and all peaceful measures to end them. Currently I am speaking to as many citizens of the USA as possible to convince them to take responsibility for their country and its actions.
May peace be with us all.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:34 pmJr isn’t going to listen to Sr’s men.
A wierd odepal thing going on in the Bush family to be sure.
Either that or George is just a total idiot.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:34 pm#124, Humanist: What I have done is made a conscious decision to not participate in or contribute to what I believe to be a heinous atrocity perpetrated by the USA against humanity.
You made a “conscious decision”?
What?
While people are being slaughtered and maimed, you sit and think and urge other people to act on what you think is correct?
Wow!
What a Humanist!!
So much for contacting your representives!
The hell with the uprising you’ve got thinking to do!!
November 30th, 2006 at 1:38 pm#126-RealScientist,
My father passed away last year at the age of 78. An honorable and very good man who does not deserve your slander. My mother is alive and well, thank you, and I look forward to seeing her this weekend when she comes to visit with my sister and grandmother.
Since I have not lived with my parents since I turned 18, which was 26+ years ago, I have not required their “permission” since that time. However, both have always been supportive of my philosophical pursuits. I am very fortunate in that regard.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:40 pmEssentially the answer from the president is Thank’s but no thanks. It at least give him the opportunity to say the issue was looked at independently and the white house has decided to not follow the recomendations. It gives him a measure of politcal coverage. But all along those who can see what Bush does have known that his only course of action was to follow his own course of action.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:40 pmThe war in Iraq was lost before we ever invaded, and not just because it was poorly planned, and inadequately executed with no clear tactics or strategy.
The war was lost because it was immoral. It was immoral because each pretext for going to war was a lie, and because there was never any threat from Iraq, direct or otherwise.
The Bush administration may call it a “preemtive strike”. The rest of the world is calling it, and rightly, an UNPROVOKED attack.
We need to leave, because we never had any justification for being there in the first place.
We need to leave, let happen what is inevitable, and then approach whichever faction wins with proposals for paying war reparations. We destroyed Iraq, and there is no way to fix it, or ‘exit gracefully’. We can only hope that if there is a God, He will forgive our fearfulness, stupidity, arrogance, greed and hatred.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:41 pmHumanist,
Since you are only in the “process” of renouncing your US citizenship, I have one question. Do you vote?
November 30th, 2006 at 1:44 pmWhile people are being slaughtered and maimed, you sit and think and urge other people to act on what you think is correct?
Comment by goodscarrier — November 30, 2006 @ 1:38 pm
Be fair. He’s doing what practically everyone else is doing here, speaking his mind, trying to convince everyone he’s right. If that’s doing nothing, then everyone here is guilty of that.
As for contacting your representative…. I do that all the time, and I get a nice form letter printed up by someone who didn’t really read my letter/email and no action…. I don’t know… maybe the paper I’m writing on is defective….
November 30th, 2006 at 1:46 pmMy father passed away last year at the age of 78. An honorable and very good man who does not deserve your slander.
Comment by Humanist — November 30, 2006 @ 1:40 pm
Okay, jerk, point out to me exactly where I slandered your father.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:47 pm#131-goodcarrier,
I suggest you educate yourself on the process of renouncing citizenship. I currently do not have “representatives”, I represent myself.
As far as what I am “doing”, I currently have two choices:
1: Peaceful dialogue and diplomacy
2: Wage war
I have chosen option #1, but reserve the right to option #2. Do you believe that I should reverse those?
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:47 pmOnly a complete idiot would remain in Iraq. Which unfortunately explains the rationale for Dubya’s unyielding position.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:47 pm#136-Zooey,
I am no longer eligible to vote in the USA.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:48 pm#129 Humanist: As a member of the human race and a resident of the planet Earth, I am a responsible member of that community. In regard to the criminal, immoral, and heinous activities being carried out by the USA and its military, I am attempting any and all peaceful measures to end them. Currently I am speaking to as many citizens of the USA as possible to convince them to take responsibility for their country and its actions.
Human race? That’s becoming a bit like you referring to yourself in the 3rd person. HINT: I am pretty sure we are all humans.
I am attempting any and all peaceful measures to end them? You are at TP. You are NOT a human shield in Iraq. Plus, you are bashing your fellow citizens for not taking up action which even you have not taken up.
I am speaking? Where, when, and how? Please post a list of your speaking engagements since 2003.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:49 pmBe fair. He’s doing what practically everyone else is doing here, speaking his mind, trying to convince everyone he’s right. If that’s doing nothing, then everyone here is guilty of that.
Comment by Swordsbane — November 30, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
It isn’t what he is doing, it is how he is doing it. Swordsbane, I simply don’t understand why you continue to defend this clown.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:51 pmHumanist,
Since you are only in the “process†of renouncing your US citizenship, I have one question. Do you vote?
—- Zooey
He is a freekin hypocrite Zooey.
I thought he was a hypocritical brit ( or scott ) like Tobey,that liketo bash americans while refusing to bash Blair and England for participating in the same war.
Come to find out, he is an american hypocrite, interesting……
November 30th, 2006 at 1:52 pmCurrently I am speaking to as many citizens of the USA as possible to convince them to take responsibility for their country and its actions.
Comment by Humanist — November 30, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
Until the process of renouncing your citizenship is final, you are also an American and hence personally responsible for the actions of the USA in Iraq -per your logic.
Furthermore, renouncing your citizenship instead of taking a proactive stance in regards to this absolute catastrophe is the easy, cowardly way out. It provides you a very convenient -however flimsy- excuse for your own inaction.
Your grandstanding about your “philosophical pursuits”, your emotional manipulation, your patronising and holier-than-thou attitude, your expectations that others live up to your standards, etc. are no different -no different at all- from what the self-proclaimed gatekeepers of public morality use to gain blind followers and keep them as obedient sheep.
I reject you (and your sad attemp at moral superiority) as I reject them.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:54 pmSwordsbane, what is fair about Humanist repeatedly excoriating others for allegedly doing nothing when he has admitted to doing nothing himself? It is flaming hypocrisy. Not to mention all the false accusations he throws around, like that I slandered his father.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:55 pm#139-RealScientist,
When you stated, and I quote: Be sure to check with Mommy and Daddy before you attempt this.
Your intent was to insinuate that I was a petulant child, which is intended as an insult to myself and my parents. You cannot insult me, so there is no issue there. However, if you challenge the honor of my parents I will respond accordingly.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:56 pm#140, Humanist: I suggest you educate yourself on the process of renouncing citizenship. I currently do not have “representativesâ€, I represent myself.
You `began the process of renouncing your citizenship on March 19, 2003′?
Where are you in the process?
So are you still a US citizen?
What exactly is your status?
November 30th, 2006 at 1:56 pmI am no longer eligible to vote in the USA.
—- Humanist
Well when you gave up your right to vote, you gave up your right to critique Americans and the government.
Your vote makes a difference you raging idiot.
Thanks for your help by voting this last election, NOT.
Idiot.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:57 pmWhen you stated, and I quote: Be sure to check with Mommy and Daddy before you attempt this.
Your intent was to insinuate that I was a petulant child, which is intended as an insult to myself and my parents.
Comment by Humanist — November 30, 2006 @ 1:56 pm
Sorry, punk, this is too far of a stretch for anyone here to swallow. By the way, thanks for revealing once and for all time that you are a dumb pompous jerk, full of yourself and full of sh*t.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:01 pm#146-Gregor Samsa,
You are woefully ignorant of the renouncement process. That is understandable.
Now, your claim that my actions are “inaction” is flawed both logically and intellectually. My choice has been made and action has been taken. I take full and complete responsibility for my choices and actions. If you do not agree with them, that is your right. But denying their existence is merely denial and most definitely disingenuous.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:03 pm3138, Swordsbane: Be fair. He’s doing what practically everyone else is doing here, speaking his mind, trying to convince everyone he’s right. If that’s doing nothing, then everyone here is guilty of that.
I am fair. I am also sort of saddened that Humanist took the petulant, pouty, and unwise step of renouncing his US citizenship.
Bush, whom he assigns no culpability to the ghastly events going on Iraq, is not the US. As the history of tyrants shows, Bush is going down, soon.
Like it or not, he’s a 3rd generation American soon to be without a country.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:05 pmIt isn’t what he is doing, it is how he is doing it. Swordsbane, I simply don’t understand why you continue to defend this clown.
Comment by RealScientist — November 30, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
Because you guy’s are attacking him for the wrong reasons. You said it yourself. It’s how he’s doing it, not what he’s doing. Look either you agree with his point of view or you don’t. I don’t agree with many of the things he says, but I understand where he’s coming from.
The ENTIRE United States citizenry shares SOME responsibility for what our government does. I don’t agree with Humanist when he says we have ALL of the responsibility. It’s a matter of perspective. We all choose to be United States Citizens. We could go and live in any other country in the world, but we choose to live here, dispite the fact that for the last six years, we’ve been practically the most malevolent country in the world.
I think we can accept some criticism as payment for that.
Having said that, Jeeze, you both agree that the government is being stupid, so stop worrying about where exactly how much responsibility is who’s and do something constructive. Otherwise, you’re both the same.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:06 pm#150-goodscarrier,
The renouncement process is an incredibly technical and complex one. There are numerous resources available to you for reference and specific details. I recommend that you look to those for your technical questions.
I am in the midst of the process dealing with my own specific technical issues. Technically I am not a citizen from a voting standpoint, but I am still paying into Social Security and Medicare though I am ineligible for both and have forfeited those “accountsâ€.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:11 pmI think we can accept some criticism as payment for that.
Comment by Swordsbane — November 30, 2006 @ 2:06 pm
I agree with the spirit in your post, with one caveat: I do not take criticism from hypocrites very well. And I do not see the need to let others patronise me.
Maybe you like it when people talk down to you. I take exception.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:11 pmAccording to the Borgen Project, the Bush could have achieved the UN Millennium Goals and eradicated poverty and hunger last year. That would have been a glorifying act for this administration. Instead, Bush is adamant still about his overspending in Iraq–It takes just $40 to 60 billion a year to end poverty and hunger…and we spent $420 billion on defense.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:13 pmSwordsbane, you are wrong on so many levels it is hard to know where to begin. I will try to make a few salient points, however.
Because you guy’s are attacking him for the wrong reasons. You said it yourself. It’s how he’s doing it, not what he’s doing.
In my world, how people do things matters a lot. I think if you ask around, a lot of people feel the same way. You may think we are attacking him for the wrong reasons, but that is your own value judgment.
Look either you agree with his point of view or you don’t.
Really? How simplistic. This is cut and run vs. stay the course logic, a false dichotomy. Of course our country is doing many things wrong, and I never said I disagreed with his points, at least those few points coherent enough to form a judgment about.
The ENTIRE United States citizenry shares SOME responsibility for what our government does.
Really? What about children? What about mentally challenged people? What about lawyers who have agreed to represent alleged terrorists, at considerable risk to themselves? Ridiculous.
We all choose to be United States Citizens. We could go and live in any other country in the world, but we choose to live here
You obviously don’t know anything about immigration policies in other countries. U.S. citizens cannot simply go and live anywhere they would like to. It is actually quite difficult for us to legally immigrate to many countries, especially in the developed world.
I think we can accept some criticism as payment for that.
No, we can’t, because the premise on which this statement is based is totally wrong.
Having said that, Jeeze, you both agree that the government is being stupid, so stop worrying about where exactly how much responsibility is who’s and do something constructive. Otherwise, you’re both the same.
No, we aren’t both the same, and you haven’t made a shred of a case that this is true.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:17 pmBegin impeachment hearings, stop funding Bush’s Iraqi War or begin the military draft. This arrogance needs to stop.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:17 pmNow, your claim that my actions are “inaction†is flawed both logically and intellectually. My choice has been made and action has been taken.
Comment by Humanist — November 30, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
I was talking about your own inaction regarding the Iraq debacle -which is what we are talking about- my morally weak fiend.
You have already admitted doing close to nothig, except renounce your citizenship. Instead of helping, you decided to take the exit. That is only an actual action in your self-deluded world.
But denying their existence is merely denial and most definitely disingenuous.
Coming here to deny you have a stake in this problem is actual denial. Patronise and condescend others when you have gone out of your way to not be politically engaged in order to end the occupation of Iraq is wholly disingenuous, and morally bankrupt.
You are part of the problem, not the solution. American citizens need to be engaged, as you say, not look the other way and take the easy way out -as you have done.
Your motto is: Do as I say, not as I do.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:19 pmNo, we aren’t both the same, and you haven’t made a shred of a case that this is true.
Comment by RealScientist — November 30, 2006 @ 2:17 pm
Oh.. well never mind then.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:20 pm#157, Humanist
What specifically is your status?
Are you are a “US citizen” who is in the process of renouncing US citizenship?
Are you a US citizen?
Are you not a US citizen?
Are you both a US citizen and stateless?
Are you neither a US citizen and stateless?
What is your status within the process?
There is classification to which you belong.
Please specify.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:22 pmIt’s interesting to me to see the reaction of many posters (perhaps with the exception of Swordsbane at the moment) the truly reactionary and defensive response to Humanist.I, personally, find that his posts make me think, even though sometimes I also get “offended” by his opinions. But let’s face it people. It’s always easier to blame others (specifically the Bush administration) and expect others to “do something” (the new Democratic majority). I’ve marched and protested, written letters to all my representatives, voted for people that I thought could bring this horror to an end and talked endlessly to my friends and neighbors about the situation, especially Republicans. The only thing that seems to have had any impact at all is talking to the Republicans, formerly strong supporters of Bush and this war, who voted for Democrats this year and are disgusted with the administration’s behavior and policies. How much that had to do with my input, and how much simple reality had to do with, I don’t know. But I certainly can’t disagree with this sentiment by Humanist. Can you?
I am gravely concerned about the future of the USA. It seems, from an outside perspective, that the people have “spoken†and that the mandate is to “get out of Iraqâ€. But it also seems, very much so from the outside, that the USA has no intention of leaving Iraq and is also ramping up aggressively for more offensive military action, both in Iraq and also towards Iran.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:27 pmGregor Samsa: You are part of the problem, not the solution. American citizens need to be engaged, as you say, not look the other way and take the easy way out -as you have done.
Exactly!!
When the going gets tough, when atrocities are being committed in our name, Humanist runs to the lofty perch of statelessness and then goes on snipe at his fellow Americans who are emotionlly and physically wounded, dying, distraught, etc.
Talk about APATHY!!
November 30th, 2006 at 2:29 pm#157, Humanist
What specifically is your status?
Comment by goodscarrier — November 30, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
Humanist’s status is “liar”. His story about renouncing his citizenship in some sort of process that has already taken 3 1/2 years but is not yet complete is just a tall tale.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:31 pmMany here have constantly criticized me for being harsh. So, I tone it down.
Then many criticize me for being pompous and condescending. So I consciously modify my normal vocabulary as much as possible and re-read and edit my posts to address those criticisms.
Many here questioned where I live and who I am. I provided specific answers.
Finally, many here questioned what I’ve done, so I provided specific answers there.
Now, I’ve acquiesced to the complaints and criticisms. I’ve responded specifically to your questions. What is the result?
Baseless Criticism and ignorant judgments on my actions.
Derogatory comments and insinuations.
How “progressive†are you my friends? How open-minded do you feel yourself to be? I have performed the most extreme act of civil disobedience possible and to some that is just not enough. Which leads me to the conclusion that many here feel that only violence yields result.
Perhaps your government is, after all, performing as an accurate representation of its people.
May peace be with us all.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:33 pmIt’s interesting to me to see the reaction of many posters (perhaps with the exception of Swordsbane at the moment) the truly reactionary and defensive response to Humanist.
Comment by impeachcheneythenbush — November 30, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
So you aren’t bothered by the hypocrisy, the lies, the absurd posturing, the baseless personal attacks waged against others, the phony victim complex, or any of Humanist’s other pathologies? Just because you agree with a few of his less garbled points? As I told Humanist earlier, he undercuts his points with all this extraneous crap, and he makes his cause look ridiculous when he makes himself look like a nut and a liar.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:40 pmI point to comment #169 as a perfect example of Humanist’s whiny crybaby victim complex, and also an extreme case of projection.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:41 pmWhen the going gets tough, when atrocities are being committed in our name, Humanist runs to the lofty perch of statelessness and then goes on snipe at his fellow Americans who are emotionlly and physically wounded, dying, distraught, etc.
Talk about APATHY!!
Comment by goodscarrier — November 30, 2006 @ 2:29 pm
If he were apathetic, he wouldn’t even be here, trying to argue you to his side.
Let me ask a question to all of the Democrats here.
Do you know how your representative voted when Bush wanted to invade? It wasn’t just republicans who sided with Bush then. Did you vote for one of those Democrats? You don’t have to tell me, but you better know the answer before you act like your conscience is clean. Some of us saw this coming before 9/11. And if there are any Democrats here who used to be Republicans when all this started, ask yourself this: Did you become a Democrat because you understand what a Democrat is and like what you see, or are you a Democrat because you don’t like the Republicans? Realscientist is right, it is difficult to cease being an American citizen. Not something to be entered into lightly. You’re giving up a lot of benefits in the process, so who’s got more guts, someone who decides to give up being a citizen of the US, or someone who stays in their cushy citizens life and votes for Democrats because they believe, dispite the historical record, that Democrats will somehow fix everything?
November 30th, 2006 at 2:46 pm#167-goodscarrier,
So, you think that having to separate oneself from the country of their birth is easy. That making a decision of conscience that will result in losing physical contact with one’s immediate family is a cowardly act. That acknowledging that in order to fulfill and maintain my oath to serve and protect the Constitution of the United States of America that I would have to detach myself from it was just flimsy whim.
Perhaps for you, but not for me, my friend.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:46 pm169, Humanist: Perhaps your government is, after all, performing as an accurate representation of its people.
Your government?
HINT: Humanist, your mask has been yanked off.
ROTFLAMOL!!
It is our goverment, i.e. one which you have failed to engage, one which you have urged others to engage despite your own lack of engagement.
Like it or not, you are an American, i.e. a 3rd generation American by birth and also legally an American.
You may have “begun” to renounce your citizenship BUT you are and always be an AMERICAN.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:47 pmWell when you gave up your right to vote, you gave up your right to critique Americans and the government.
Comment by Wayne
Excuse me?
November 30th, 2006 at 2:48 pmWhere did you come up with that? Do I have to be a US citizen to criticize US government? Do I have to be a Rwanda citizen to criticize that government? US citizens criticize other country´s governments all the time: Venezuela, Bolivia, France, Iraq, Cuba, North Korea, etc…
Humanist
You have continually failed to answer the question about your status.
I do not care what you think you status is.
What does the US goverment think your status is?
Waiting…….
Be truthful my fellow American (snicker)….
November 30th, 2006 at 2:49 pmHumanist - I appreciate your posts. I am extremely ashamed of our country and saddened that the American people were brainwashed and lolled into a deep, deep sleep. Many are starting to wake up, but it may be too late to save this once great nation.
I marched against this war and have attended demonstrations renouncing bu$hco and their policies. I vote and I write my senators and congressman regularly. I put up signs in my yard and I have an “Impeach Bush” bumper sticker on my car. I talk with people and I listen. For the past five years people have been afraid to speak out; afraid of being labeled a terrorist or unpatriotic. Just what bu$hco intended as they whittled away our rights. But We, the People, let them. It seems to me that the only way to retain our rights is by exercising them - no matter what the consequences might be.
Most Americans are beginning to realize that the “war on terra” is a hoax and that the real terrorists are occupying our White House. There is a do it yourself Impeachment website and I encourage everyone to participate. Print it out, fill it out and send it to your representative, Nancy Pelosi and John Conyers — and keep doing it and doing it and doing it.
Bu$hco must be impeached, removed and imprisoned. Let’s get to work!!
November 30th, 2006 at 2:50 pmI’ve responded specifically to your questions. What is the result?
Baseless Criticism and ignorant judgments on my actions.
Derogatory comments and insinuations.
Comment by Humanist — November 30, 2006 @ 2:33 pm
Aaahh… playing the passive-aggressive card now, aren’t we?
What has happened is that we have finally pissed off people enough, and we have figured out what a condescending hypocrite you are.
You have spend days criticising others, and judging their actions. You have made nasty insinuations about other posters here. I’d say Karma is a bitch.
How “progressive†are you my friends? How open-minded do you feel yourself to be?
What does being progressive or open-minded have to do with anything at all? Do you really expect people who are open-minded to lay down and take a beating without raising as much as a finger? Do you really expect progressive people to respond well to condescension?
What planet are you from?
I have performed the most extreme act of civil disobedience possible and to some that is just not enough.
An action is considered sufficient or not based on what it accomplishes.
Has the renouncing of your citizenship ended the occupation of Iraq? No.
Has it ended US military actions against other nations once and for all? No
Has it ended the corruption in Capitol Hill? No
Has anyone in position to take action towards any of these noticed you? No
Reality 4, Humanist 0
Which leads me to the conclusion that many here feel that only violence yields result.
Yet another false dichotomy, courtesy of Humanist: Either all Americans take up arms or renounce their citizenship.
If all Americans who oppose the occupation of Iraq renounced their citizenship, the occupation -and the carnage- would still continue. Any child would understand this concept.
Perhaps your government is, after all, performing as an accurate representation of its people.
Didn’t you just critise people who judge? And you are in no position to be a judge yourself.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:50 pmGeez, I went to lunch thinking Humanist was a pompous blowhard from some other country. I come back to find out he’s a pompous blowhard American living in America!
Humanist, you’ve blamed everyone in the USA for Iraq. You damn well better be blaming yourself for it, too. You don’t get to condemn everyone else and grant yourself absolution. And it doesn’t sound to me like you’ve done nearly as much to try to stop the Bush administration as others here have done. Yeah, I’ve talked to a lot of people, too. And, I door-knocked and phone-banked and organized and held signs and protested and worked my butt off for candidates in the last three elections. I don’t accept blame from you and I don’t see any indication that you’ve done anything that would make you any less culpable than the rest of us.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:52 pm#171-RealScientist,
I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, a victim. I take full responsibility for my actions and any consequences from those actions. I have never claimed differently nor would I ever do so.
And please show specific examples of the “hypocrisy†that you accuse me of so that I can respond accordingly. Otherwise you are just throwing out baseless accusations driven by cowardice and insecurity.
Peace.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:53 pm#176, Humanist: So, you think that having to separate oneself from the country of their birth is easy. That making a decision of conscience that will result in losing physical contact with one’s immediate family is a cowardly act. That acknowledging that in order to fulfill and maintain my oath to serve and protect the Constitution of the United States of America that I would have to detach myself from it was just flimsy whim.
Easy, au contraire, I think it would be hard and incredibly stupid at this time of civil unrest throughout the world. I never even thought or suggested it would be easy.
The rest of your post is Diva-queen-ish.
All I can say is tough shit.
I am really sort of saddened that you did that.
But, what the hell, long live diversity!
November 30th, 2006 at 2:53 pmPERFECT
Bicker amongst yourselves. You must know that was the plan all along. Pitt dems vs. repubs… conservs vs. libs…. blacks vs. whites. Anything to distract you from the truth. Just argue about gays and bigots. Spend hours debating abortion and stem cells. Scream at the top of your lungs declaring that your party / religion / country / ethics / race / color / morality / science / intelligence / integrity / gender …. that your God… is superior. Oh how they love it. While we wage these ego wars our souls are stolen and sold to the highest bidder. Our freedoms and those of our sons and daughters are raped before our very eyes while we blindly point the finger at our brother. Keep it up. Stay the course and see how long before our entire existance is contained within a piece of plastic. Bicker like children while we are gradually reduced to mere numbers in a database to be added or deleted at the whim of the truely insane. Oh how easily we are divided by borders of ink and steel. While we embrace our divisions we are conquered as a whole. Our lives will be steadily invaded and manipulated by the ones who hold the puppet strings. “Dance little ones! Dance!” chant the men with fat fingers. As they bask in the blood of our children’s children they cheer:
“Praise to the slaves of the United States of Fascism”
November 30th, 200