Murtha Raises Alarm Over Study Group, Warns ‘Kissinger Came Out With The Same Type of Thing’
Murtha Raises Alarm Over Study Group, Warns ‘Kissinger Came Out With The Same Type of Thing’
Tonight on CNN’s Situation Room, Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) said that the Iraq Study Group’s reported recommendations for troop withdrawals from Iraq were “unacceptable.” According to the Washington Post, the group will recommend that roughly half of U.S. forces be redeployed from Iraq by 2008.
“[T]he problem is they say it depends on the circumstances on the ground,” Murtha said. “Well, if it depends on circumstances on the ground it’s not a lot different than what President Bush is saying.” He added, “Kissinger came out with the same type of thing in the 1960s and three years later we got out of there, but we lost 20,000 troops.” Watch it:
Murtha noted that he is “going to meet with the White House officials sometime next week and try to convince them that it’s just not going well. It’s not going to be better.”
Full transcript:
MURTHA: Now, the commission is saying let’s redeploy, let’s change the policy of stay the course to redeployment.
The problem, as I understand it, and I haven’t seen the report either, Wolf, but the problem is they say it depends on the circumstances on the ground. Well, if it depends on circumstances on the ground it’s not a lot different than what President Bush is saying. And then President Bush says he’s going to ignore it anyway.
Now, we have to have a change in policy here and that’s what we’re going to work on all this year, trying to work with this president in trying to reduce our number of troops in Iraq and do it as soon as practicable.
BLITZER: Leon Panetta, a former White House chief of staff under President Clinton, OMB director, former member of the House himself. Did he give you any sense of how specific, though, they might be in terms of a time line?
MURTHA: Well, he said, I think, the end of 2008 have all the troops out, but that’s unacceptable.
BLITZER: You mean all the troops or just the combat troops?
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Because half of the troops are combat troops; the other are support troops or trainers.
MURTHA: Yes, that’s true. He said combat troop. But that is unacceptable to me. We’re costing $8 billion a month, Wolf. Since I spoke out there were 400 attacks a day. Now there’s 800 attacks a day. All the measurements which you and I have talked about before, oil production, electricity production, below prewar level. The Iraqis want us out of there, the world wants us out of there. We have to find a way to redeploy the troops and we have to do it sooner rather than later.
Now, we have to work on it this year. I’m going to meet with the White House officials sometime next week and try to convince them that it’s just not going well. It’s not going to be better.
Kissinger came out with the same type of thing in the 1960s and three years later we got out of there, but we lost 20,000 troops. We’re just not making the progress. And then they say, well, we need 300,000 Iraqis trained. Then they say we need 100,000 more Iraqis trained. They keep changing the guidelines. That’s the problem with this report.
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You tell’em Jack.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:03 pmMurtha noted that he is “going to meet with the White House officials…”
good luck with that, sir… really…
but i won’t be holding MY breath…
December 1st, 2006 at 8:05 pmIn February 2003, a month before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, the Saudi foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, warned President Bush that he would be “solving one problem and creating five more” if he removed Saddam Hussein by force. Had Bush heeded his advice, Iraq would not now be on the brink of full-blown civil war and disintegration. (Nawaf Obaid today in the Washington Post)
On 9/11 nearly three thousand people died horrible deaths and tens of billions of dollars in damage were incurred.
What does Bush do?
Bush removed Saddam Hussein by force and thereby created the perfect conditions in which a Shiite fundamentalist repunlic could thrive.
9/11 + Iraq = Bush’s Islamic Fundamentalist Republic
WTF?
December 1st, 2006 at 8:10 pmJack Murtha, you are a true American hero, but you will be disrespected to your face at this White House. I know you can handle that, and good luck to you.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:13 pmI’m not holding my breath either, Bush and his cronies are stuck on dumb (and corrupt). But thank god someone is beginning to stand up to them and call them on their shit.
Give hell Jack!
December 1st, 2006 at 8:14 pmThe study group is turning out to be a complete joke.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:18 pmIf an intelligent person hears what Murtha said, which is that there are an astonishing 800 [not 80] attacks against U.S. troops, not in a week, but in one day, then surely an intelligent person would realize that those troops are being kept in a slaughterhouse and would, in order to prevent further losses, get them out of that hellhole as quickly as possible. But that may presuppose that Bush actually cares for the welfare of those troops. It certainly appears that to our not too caring leader, war and all it entails is simply an abstract concept when in reality those troops are getting blown up and ripped apart for absolutely no legitimate reason. Murtha, unfortunately, is in for an uphill battle if he expects Bush to change course now.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:26 pmIf an intelligent person hears what Murtha said, [...]
Comment by Erroll — December 1, 2006 @ 8:26 pm
You already left out the stubborn 30-some percenters at “if”.
For them, “support the troops” means to keep the troops right in harm’s way -in this war of choice- while they wring their hands, and cross their fingers hoping nothing bad will happen to the soldiers in Iraq.
Anyone else would think it insane, but that is not the way these people’s brains work.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:39 pmi think it ought to be crystal clear to one and all at this point, including murtha, that trying to convince the bush white house of anything is a colossal waste of time and energy… the isg was created as nothing but a smoke and mirrors distraction, creating the appearance of reasonable people, doing reasonable research, coming up with reasonable recommendations, presenting them to a reasonable president, who would then make a reasonable decision… what a joke…! no way in hell is bush leaving vietnam iraq… iraq has been intended all along as the principal u.s. base in the middle east which is why there are 14 permanent bases and a massive embassy complex under construction… i’m tired of everybody going through the motions and pretending we’re having a serious discussion… we’re doing nothing of the kind…
December 1st, 2006 at 8:46 pmAnd, yes, I DO take it personally
I agree with Murtha. We have to set a timetable or we will never leave. If 2008 is the year, fine, but let’s not say 2008 “as the situation on the ground is evaluated”. I am sure we will not lose 20,000 troops, but it could be 2,000 and that is enough for me.
http://www.getsomejosh.com
December 1st, 2006 at 8:51 pmThe study group is turning out to be a complete joke. — RealScientist
Yeah, it’s a joke…Leon Panetta weighing in, just like I thought. How clever of them to use Clinton’s water boy to carry the message…not. If it’s not the neo-cons, it’s the CFR racketeers. Who you gonna call?
But, seriously, like I said yesterday, the ISG is sponsored by the US Institute for Peace, which is just another retread shop for Cold War slags. So, it’s no wonder this has already begun to devolve into Newspeak.
Lovely, just lovely.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:55 pmjack jack jack…i admire you and your tenaciousness, but, unless you are going in there with about 20,000,000 others carrying torches, nothing is going to happen….
Comment by andrea makris
j,
He has to do this. He has to leave a ‘papertrail,’ if you will. Imagine if no one ever says BOO because it won’t do any good anyway.
Those neo-con bastards will only use it against us, saying — Well if we’d known you wanted things to go differently, we would have done things differently, but how could we know?
I’m sure Murtha knows he’s pissing in the wind. It’s something he has to do.
December 1st, 2006 at 9:00 pmj – how do you get malloy?… i rather miss him on AAR nights…
which post is he reading? that’s very cool!
December 1st, 2006 at 9:13 pmRep. Murtha,
Whoever advised that this it is a waste of time to try and convince this WH of anything that does not fit in with their fantasy views is correct. Therefore when you go in there you better have some sort of ace in the whole. I suggest some sort of in-camera hostile motion which could be brought up on the floors of Congress. Convince the chimp and his handler that you are not prepared to see further slaughter for the sake of presidential ego, and unless demands are met the motion will go forward.
December 1st, 2006 at 9:17 pmYeah j, what katy said. Cough it up.
December 1st, 2006 at 9:18 pmMurtha should go with a copy of the Constitution. That will scare WH´s a-holes like cockroaches when there is a sudden light.
December 1st, 2006 at 9:30 pmoh, hi katy, i thought you were z! the ‘j’ threw me…
Comment by andrea makris
It was katy and me! Falafels are clouding your mind…
:-)
December 1st, 2006 at 9:35 pmOne thing that would work:
The Democrats refuse to fund the Iraq War via supplemental “emergency” authorizations and insist that the costs be included in the budget.
Next, the Democrats could ask for revised budget figures for the past 6 years which insert the cost of Bush’s Wars into the budget defict, thus showing just how much Bush has bankrupted this country.
Then they could match those figures up with how much the War Profiteers (Iraq for Sale) have made with their no-bid, profit-plus contracts, and the profits made by the energy industry since 2000. Add to that the amount of tax breaks given to the wealthiest 5%.
Once those figures are assembled, then we can talk about how long we are willing to stay in Iraq, and at what cost, both in terms of dollars, and in terms of American women and men killed each and every day and ask ourselves: “Who Profits?” and “Is it worth it?”
(anyone who answers the last question “yes” should immediately be drafted into the infantry and sent to Iraq and/or Afghanistan and stop-lossed until all soldiers are removed)
December 1st, 2006 at 9:45 pmand then we have britney’s whoooohaaaa discussions on fox every hour…
Comment by andrea makris
Too bad about BO, but he does find you HOT! ick
I’ll never understand the fascination with that no talent Britney and whatever part of her anatomy happens to reveal itself. :P
December 1st, 2006 at 9:47 pmoh yea… i went away for a while… surfing for gift ideas…
thanks for the link, “andrea”/j.
(what – you think zoo is the only one to have you pegged?… heh)
why o why is maher gone till february???
thinking out loud…
December 1st, 2006 at 9:53 pmComment by i am no longer andrea makris
You’ll always be ann coulter to me.
z-man
December 1st, 2006 at 9:56 pmA blistering new report in the British paper, The Guardian, which includes an interview with Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general of the Iraq reconstruction, found that:
* Oil smuggling is the region’s top problem and funds the insurgency
* 9 billion in oil revues are unaccounted for
* American incompetence in handling weapons may have helped arm the insurgents and death squads
and
* Contractors continue to make a killing, with nobody being held accountable.
“Corruption: The ‘Second Insurgency’ In Iraqâ€
December 1st, 2006 at 10:47 pmhttp://scootmandubious.blogspot.com/2006/12/corruption-second-insurgency-in-iraq.html
Anyone still lurking about???
December 1st, 2006 at 11:16 pm#31 – scootmandubious,
December 1st, 2006 at 11:18 pmSo, when was this news? We, the aware, have seen it for three and a half years. The war was launched for three purposes – Enrich Cheney, Enrich Cheney and Enrich Cheney. Why a man with a failing ticker and a lesbian daughter would desire more wealth than Midas eludes me. Do they accept US dollars in Hell?
#23 – stonehinge,
December 1st, 2006 at 11:20 pmI am, but the response time sucks!
via crooksandliars…
Ten Fallacies About the Violence in Iraq
By John Tirman, AlterNet. Posted November 28, 2006.
The distortions about the violence in Iraq persist even as the mayhem increases. Here are ten of the worst myths being spread in the media.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/44771/
December 1st, 2006 at 11:22 pm#10 profmarcus says:
Yes. And it is increasingly clear for anyone who has denied it that this is the plan – the Bush plan.
December 1st, 2006 at 11:28 pmHe stubbornly clings to his trite phrases in defense of his indefensible case. His greed and selfishness has brought the world to a crisis point. I believe the man has gone insane.
#24 BnF
December 1st, 2006 at 11:33 pmI tell my friends that I learn so much from the smart people who post here.
Yoy prove my point.
#37 – Marie,
December 1st, 2006 at 11:41 pmI am convinced that W has received massive injections of Botox into his cerebral hemispheres from birth. This is the only explanation for his vacant expression and senseless utterances.
Well, ok then, maybe we can lighten up just a bit?
This is just too…uh…well, I’m not really sure…check it out for yourself:
What the ACLU Hath Wrought
December 1st, 2006 at 11:45 pmMy Goodness, Murtha has big balls;This gentleman is not taking a back seat to the coverup study group(ISG).
December 1st, 2006 at 11:46 pm— How refreshing to hear a politician tell it like it is.The ISG is a sham.And please take note, That somehow Lee Hamilton is here on another group (previous 911 com.)to coverup corruption and inefficiency in our Govt.
#39 WtM
December 1st, 2006 at 11:54 pmThere must be an explanation like that – people like him are manufactured.
Talk about Bush’s vacant expressions – did you see Jon Stewart mock Bush in the kimono the other night?
Stephen A. Cambone, Under Secretary of Defense and a close associate of outgoing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, is resigning effective December 31.
December 1st, 2006 at 11:58 pmthat was great, stonehinge… did you scroll up to the top to read some comments from “Our Savior’s followers”? …”love thy neighbor”… right…
g’nite all…
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:27 amI think some comments must have been deleted, like the ones from “Our saviors followers”.
Don’t blame it on Yoko.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:45 amPlease ask your government to remove the Federal Police and the Military from Oaxaca immediately.
Please recommend your government allow the People of Oaxaca to get, by peaceful means, the justice that is being denied them through use of force.Justice is the only demand being made by the People’s movement in Oaxaca.
Justice is as well the only peaceful resolution to the problems caused by the corrupt Governor of Oaxaca, who serves the interests of the fraction few wealthy at the expense of the overwhelming majority of working poor.
Please inform your government that the word has already been spread about Oaxaca. Even average housewives from Iowa…along with their husbands and children, their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, cousins, co-workers, congregations, friends, acquaintances – even the young man who bags their groceries at the market – have become highly aware of the brutal, ugly, and violent abuse and oppression the Oaxacan people are suffering in their struggle for justice.
We are all watching.
We are all reporting.
We are all watching and reporting the indefensible multiple murders, rapes, kidnappings, home invasions, detentions, tortures, attacks and assaults being experienced by our unarmed brethren, the Oaxacan teachers, students, Indians, union members, protesters, citizens, civilians, and innocent bystanders – whose only demand is justice.
Please ask your government to remove the Federal Police and the Military from Oaxaca immediately.
Thank-you.
Sincerely http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=9476&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=de3a0ff12d52af57dc6a47c928eb2b0a
December 2nd, 2006 at 3:53 amVery true Jack the world wants you OUT asap ,, were all sick of war
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:12 amThe study group is turning out to be a complete joke.
Comment by RealScientist — December 1, 2006 @ 8:18 pm
Can’t say I’m surprised. Everyone with half a brain know the situations f**ked and a blind man can see what we need to do, but they formed a “study group” to figure it out? And what did they come up with? ONLY HALF our troops “redeployed” by 2008 IF the situation on the ground says so. Who makes that determination? I bet it’s the president.
Good one guys.
and good luck Murtha, but there are only two things the president will listen to: A congressional order or impeachment. I’m not real hopeful for either.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:06 amJessie James ( aka. BUSH) “rides” on…….. bleeding the USA into bankruptcy. Bleeding 1000’s of American soldiers lifes – all over his total reckless behavior. Bush needs an IV hooked up of “truth syrup”. Any takers here?
Will this “occupant” ever grow up and “own” his mistakes? Thank God I’m not married to him! Thank God I’m not his mother! As in both cases I would slap his face for a true wake up call.
Why is it that ONLY the past vietnam vets like Murtha and Kerry now see the clear writing on the wall? Answer: they had front line vietnam experience.
Next venue coming to us: iraq embassy fly outs just like saigon………………………………………
most sincerely
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:30 amconcerned mother
[Keywords: Neoconservatism, Iraq, Saddam Hussein, Likudnik, Likud, 9/11, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Max Boot, Council of Foreign Relations, SCIRI]
Get Feith and Exit Iraq without Bush
by Ahmed Amr
Inviting SCIRI’s Death Squads to the Interior Ministry
The death squads began infiltrating the security forces right under the eyes of Bremer and Feith. Thousands of hard core disciples of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution (SCIRI) in Iraq were ushered into the ranks of the Iraqi police and Special Forces. Many of their cadres had been trained and indoctrinated by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
Now, why would Feith set into motion an irreversible process that basically handed the security apparatus to Tehran’s allies? Well, because, at the time, the neo-con crystal ball predicted a spontaneous Iranian uprising that would convert Iran into a carbon copy of Turkey – a country that has cordial relations with Tel Aviv. Apparently, Mahmoud Ahmedinejad hadn’t shown up on Feith’s radar screen.
[snip]
“An Iranian-backed Ayatollah tipped to become Iraq’s first elected leader in decades said yesterday that he would carry out a purge of Iraq’s intelligence and security structures if his party wins power. Asked if he planned a sweeping purge of the intelligence and security forces that the Americans built up piecemeal after the war, the Ayatollah, who once commanded Sciri’s 10,000-strong militia, said: “For sure. If we want to improve the security situation. It’s natural and it’s one of our priorities.” In their place, he said he would install “loyal Iraqis and the believers (in God), and those who believe in the process of change in Iraq.â€
“If he forms the government, that will be a disaster. He’ll purge the army, purge the police and put his own men in it,” said Ghassan al-Atiyyah, a secular Shia commentator, who is trying to build bridges with the Sunni community and defuse the uprising. “This is the road to civil war.”
A strange thing happened when SCIRI emerged as the largest party in the Shia coalition that won the transitional government elections. Ayatollah Abdelaziz al-Hakim didn’t emerge as the Prime Minister. That position went to Ibrahim Jaafari of the Daawa Party. Al-Hakim had his sights on a much more powerful position – the interior ministry. Sure enough, one of his aides – Bayan Jabr – was appointed as Interior Minister in April 2005.
Bayan Jabr wasted no time in making his mark. As Iraq’s senior police officer – he started converting the ministry into the official residence of the death squads. By May, he had launched the purge promised by Al-Hakim.
“In May 2005, Shiite militia groups in Iraq began depositing corpses into the dumps of Baghdad. The victims, overwhelmingly Sunni, were typically handcuffed, their corpses showing signs of torture – broken skulls, burn marks, electric drill holes; by that October, the death toll attributed to such groups had reached 500.†(Harper’s Magazine – 08/06/2006.)
Jabr is the kind of thug who likes to get his hands dirty. The SCIRI operative who continues to serve as finance minister in Maliki’s cabinet was personally involved in death squad activities.
A year ago, Solomon Moore of the Los Angeles Times painted a pretty graphic picture of the Shiite death squads in the Iraqi police force (11/29/2005). It was a long feature that gave a vivid and disturbing account of the reign of terror orchestrated by the militia infested Baghdad security forces. But perhaps the most alarming thing about the article was the allegation that Jabr had a direct hand in drawing up death lists.
“This month, U.S. forces raided a secret Interior Ministry detention facility in southern Baghdad operated by police intelligence officials linked to the Badr Brigade, a Shiite militia that has long-standing ties to Iran and to Iraq’s leading Shiite political party. Inmates compiled a handwritten list of 18 detainees at the bunker who were allegedly tortured to death while in custody. The list was authenticated by a U.S. official and given to Justice Ministry authorities for investigation. It was later provided to The Times.
The U.S. military is investigating whether police officers who worked at the secret prison were trained by American interrogation experts. An Aug. 18 police operations report addressed to Interior Minister Bayan Jabr, who has ties to the Badr militia, listed the names of 14 Sunni Arab men arrested during a predawn sweep in the Baghdad neighborhood of Iskaan. Six weeks later, their bodies were discovered near the Iranian border, badly decomposed. All of the corpses showed signs of torture, and each still wore handcuffs and had been shot three times in the back of the head, Baghdad morgue officials said.â€
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:39 amFrom Howard Zinn:
Although some of us may pride ourselves that we were never fooled, we still might accept as our civic duty the responsibility to buttress our fellow citizens against the mendacity of our high officials.
We would remind whoever we can that President Polk lied to the nation about the reason for going to war with Mexico in 1846. It wasn’t that Mexico “shed American blood upon the American soil,†but that Polk, and the slave-owning aristocracy, coveted half of Mexico.
We would point out that President McKinley lied in 1898 about the reason for invading Cuba, saying we wanted to liberate the Cubans from Spanish control, but the truth is that we really wanted Spain out of Cuba so that the island could be open to United Fruit and other American corporations. He also lied about the reasons for our war in the Philippines, claiming we only wanted to “civilize†the Filipinos, while the real reason was to own a valuable piece of real estate in the far Pacific, even if we had to kill hundreds of thousands of Filipinos to accomplish that.
President Woodrow Wilson—so often characterized in our history books as an “idealistâ€â€”lied about the reasons for entering the First World War, saying it was a war to “make the world safe for democracy,†when it was really a war to make the world safe for the Western imperial powers.
Harry Truman lied when he said the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima because it was “a military target.â€
Everyone lied about Vietnam—Kennedy about the extent of our involvement, Johnson about the Gulf of Tonkin, Nixon about the secret bombing of Cambodia, all of them claiming it was to keep South Vietnam free of communism, but really wanting to keep South Vietnam as an American outpost at the edge of the Asian continent.
Reagan lied about the invasion of Grenada, claiming falsely that it was a threat to the United States.
The elder Bush lied about the invasion of Panama, leading to the death of thousands of ordinary citizens in that country.
And he lied again about the reason for attacking Iraq in 1991—hardly to defend the integrity of Kuwait (can one imagine Bush heartstricken over Iraq’s taking of Kuwait?), rather to assert U.S. power in the oil-rich Middle East.
Given the overwhelming record of lies told to justify wars, how could anyone listening to the younger Bush believe him as he laid out the reasons for invading Iraq? Would we not instinctively rebel against the sacrifice of lives for oil?
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:56 amZooey, what makes Murtha a “true American hero”? Really. Seriously I want to know the qualifications.
Is it because he served his country and was decorated(you of course would include Sen McCain and Sen Kerry then)? I know hundreds that meet that standard, and I know of thousands that do. I read it in my paper every day, but they are called “baby killers” and “war criminals” by some on this site.
Is is because he has called to withdraw the troops? Well, guess what? There are thousands that have said that too.
So, tell me, what makes Murtha a hero?
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:57 amSo, tell me, what makes Murtha a hero?
Comment by robert
He is against the war, robert. I dont know if that makes you a hero, but at least he is confronting the propaganda machine.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:05 amThe Iraq Study Group is just smoke and mirrors. A bunch of hand picked servants of the cause dealing behind closed doors. They mimmic the vp’s Energy Board. Decisions have already been made by this partisian group of has beens who continue to back peddle to cover their asses and polish their brass.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:12 amJuan
So the 21 year old that jumps on a grenade to save 4 others is what?
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:21 amJuan, remember that Murtha is part of the machine. He speaks out agains the war but then gets government projects that support the war sent to his district.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:25 amfortruth:
that was great, stonehinge… did you scroll up to the top to read some comments from “Our Savior’s followersâ€? …â€love thy neighborâ€â€¦ right…
Comment by katy — December 2, 2006 @ 12:27 am
I think some comments must have been deleted, like the ones from “Our saviors followersâ€.
Comment by ForTruth — December 2, 2006 @ 12:45 am
i was referring to the comments at the site stonehinge linked to:
What the ACLU hath wrought
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2006_11_26_patriotboy_archive.html#116495988070428575
if you scroll up from there you’d find a later posting with those comments here:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2006_11_26_patriotboy_archive.html#116502584429546553
if you’re not familiar with the jesus’ general site, place tongue firmly in cheek when reading and then you’ll get it… it’s great…
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:26 amMo Do starts out today’s column with, “If you call Barack Obama’s office to check the spelling of his middle name, the reply comes back: ‘Like the dictator.’”
It gets better…
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:43 amalways telling people how to think, act, feel and such. what a dumb and petty troll pretending to be a liberal.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:06 amIt is ironic – the Left touts the bold thinking of the Iraq Study Group. Progs and Progettes can hardly contain themselves with glee at the thought of returning military personnel! This feat, of course, is suggested when the Iraqi’s can step up the level of Iraq’s national security. Sounds a bit like what the President has been saying ALL along……The hypocritical Left demonstrates the following:
Messenger+Hate+Shoot……
Happy Weekend….
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:30 amThis so called Iraq Study Group should not deter the Congress from doing what it sees fit. After all these people in this Study Group are bunch of retirees assembled to help the President headed by his father’s best friend,while the President still listens to H.Kissinger ,another retiree, on this Iraqi war case. Congress are the elected people in power…and Murtha is right. They need to assert their Constitutional power..and not leave it to the power of the retirees….
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:31 amSo, tell me, what makes Murtha a hero?
Comment by robert
Robert,
Is it your belief or assertion that there is only one definition of an American Hero?
Jack Murtha is a hero because he served his country with distinction, like Kerry and McCain. He returned home and continues to serve his country to this day, like Kerry and McCain. Murtha saw this war coming and spoke up against it, spoke up for the men and women actually fighting this war, even though he knew it was unpopular, and that he would be smeared continuously and unjustly. He continues to speak up, speak truth to power, if you will, while he continues to be maligned at every turn. He will not back down.
Kerry and McCain, not so much. But they are still heroes for the things they did an do in service to this country. Each of them wanted something too badly, and compromised themselves for it.
In my book, that makes Jack Murtha an American Hero.
That in no way implies that there are no other American Heroes.
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:34 amZooey, remember that Murtha also voted for use of force in Iraq.
again, he is part of the machine.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:06 pmMurtha understands that GW is fighting this war with new technology and old strategy. The US doesn’t have to be in Iraq to accomplish whatever nonsensical vision G. Dubya sees in that alcohol/cocaine altered brain of his. This whole escapade is a tragedy on multiple levels. Enlisting in the military should involve a sacred promise by the government not to cook the intelligence and commit troops to the personal trivial whims of conscienceless government officials. Are you listening, Ronald Dumbsfeld?
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:24 pmZooey, remember that Murtha also voted for use of force in Iraq.
again, he is part of the machine.
Comment by robert
Murtha, like so many others in Congress, voted for use of force in Iraq with the information they were provided by this administration.
Thank you for reinforcing my point, Robert. Murtha is even more of a hero because he’s trying to make right what he inadvertently helped start.
Why do you dislike Jack Murtha? Or disrespect him? He takes nothing away from your own hero status, Robert.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:39 pmZooey, I dislike Murtha because he PUBLICLY, condemed the “Haditha” Marines before having any information on the case and before the military was able to completely investigate it. He saw fit to deny a basic right “innocent until proven guilty” and try to try the case in the court of public opinion.
Yes, charges have now been brought against some of the Marines involved. Still they are entitled to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
By the way, thanks for including me in the hero status, but I am not a hero, just a man doing my best in the world.
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:26 pm9/11, is the answer, how soon we forget, 3,000 innocent people, when i read all these sites i do not read of the instant fear,numbing mind confused state , the terror, the pain,the anguish, the total non understanding of what happened, (these words are to tame to what i want to use,I just cant think at the moment) just think in a few days of all the familys who will remenber, add to it the missing service personel
December 2nd, 2006 at 3:44 pmhas anyone started a site to 100% acurately know howmany in iraq are accounted for ? add all this to the xmas list. and you have all read about the russian with radiation, wait till all the people, military and cilvillans come home with D.U. add them to the xmas list.. go after your media, get you lawyers and stop him, but at the end of the day its not really him it is the other 15 and there satilites, start picking them off and work back to the boss… if we applied the same rules to them as to the detension, torture we apply to others we should have the world back on an well a liitle bit of an even keel, i like the part about stopping the money..from Briseadh na Faire that person has just spoken the first true healing words and the right path for the world to see, which leads me also, America/usa is not the only country in the world but for it we would be living different lives or not at all, so america we need you to heal, for the safety of the entire world.
Look we won the war in Iraq I think that needs to be established “Mission Accomplished” now what we have going on is a humanitarian effort regardless of its success the war already was won. Possibly then the leftist media will give up working with all their might to sabotage any success in Iraq and the world will take a compassionate position for the Iraqi people rather than a spiteful position against the right wing U.S.
The second thing we need to do since this is not a war of boards and statehood but one against terror. Is to stop tipsy toeing around the middle east like a bull in a china store, and go right into Lebanon and take out Hezbollah, go into Syria and take out their training camps and weapons supplies, Then do the same in Iran and while we are at it take out their nuclear production capabilities.
Will someone please forward this information to the commission? And while your at it punch that coward Murtha in the nose.
December 2nd, 2006 at 3:54 pmA damn shame that his fellow democrats can’t fight as hard as Murtha has to put an end to this destruction. Seems like they have already forgotten what the election was all about.
Seems like the only way to stop the idiot that has stolen the White House the last two elections is “IMPEACHMENT” and they have taken this option off the table. Shame on them….
.
Bush and Rove are starting the spin that the American people are too blame for the Iraq War. I guess he thought it was time to blame someone other than Clinton.
Bush says that since Americans have voted against him in the election, they have enable the enemy and he won’t be able to get the Iraqi to agree to stop the violence. Whom sounds more like the idiot and is responsible for the destruction of our nation. So again Bush tell Americans to go to h……..
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:05 pmPeople conviently forget, as soon as we pulled out of south vietnam, they were immediately conquered and are now under the control of the north vietnamese..
Nice work, pat yourselves on the back.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:26 pmWould you like for me to post the numerous quotes by Democrats and members of the Clinton administration stating that Iraq was a threat and pursuing weapons of mass destruction in spite of the inspections?
Say I’m bluffing I dare you.
I have a nicely compiled list of quotes with names and dates.
Remember that 911 occurred only shortly after Bush took office where was the intel handed to him from the previous administration? What was the intel? Well our nicely compiled list of public statements seems to indicate it came from the Demoncrats.
Facts little ole facts aren’t they so very annoying when they blow your stupid theories and ruined your world?
Ever considered what would happen if we had only went into Afghanistan? It was genius strategy to take the war in Terror to two fronts. We went into Iraq and took the war where it belonged to the most obvious threat and in doing so prevented Saddam from supplying the Taliban with weapons to use against the U.S. in Afghanistan. We attracted the Muslim extremist to a flat desert to die by the thousands like putting a “Black Flag Roach Motel” in the middle of the kitchen floor.
But the spineless amongst us will sit back and relish the opportunity to armchair qtr-back the Iraqi war. The fact that it is at the expense of America is fine with them.
I view the left like the mother in the biblical story of king Solomon’s wisdom She was more than willing to split the baby and destroy the life out of spite. There is the Demoncrat Party in a nutshell.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:34 pmComment by Joeslogic — December 2, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
Your bluffing!!
(I may need that list in a discussion somtime :)
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:38 pmOh and on the impeachment idea.
Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please I’m begging on my knees.
Please do that!
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:39 pmI hope Murtha gives him notice that he plans to begin impeachment procedings against the rat bastards.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:44 pmDouggie G.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:46 pmThe South Vietnamese gov’t fell not when we pulled out, but when we cut off military aid to the ARVN.
joeslogic, and tundra – we’ve all seen the list… no need to again…
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:53 pmhashed it over and figured it all out, numerous too many times…
*yawn*
Re: Comment by Joeslogic — December 2, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
Your bluffing!!
(I may need that list in a discussion somtime :)
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 4:38 pm
You got it one list comming right up.
Let’s see if I can get these html tags right
Quote:
October 9th, 1999 Letter to President Clinton Signed by Senators Levin, Lieberman, Lautenberg, Dodd, Kerrey, Feinstein, Mikulski, Daschle, Breaux, Johnson, Inouye, Landrieu, Ford and Kerry — all Democrats
“We urge you, after consulting with Congress and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Quote:
Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
“This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world, and this is a guy who is in every way possible seeking weapons of mass destruction.”
Quote:
Bill Clinton > February 17, 1998
“If Saddam rejects peace, and we have to use force, our purpose is clear: We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
Quote:
Chuck Schumer > October 10, 2002
“It is Hussein’s vigorous pursuit of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, and his present and future potential support for terrorist acts and organizations that make him a danger to the people of the united states.”
Quote:
Madeleine Albright > February 1, 1998
“We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and the security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.”
Quote:
Nancy Pelosi > December 16, 1998
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Quote:
John Kerry > January 23, 2003
“Without question we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator leading an impressive regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he’s miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. His consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction.”
Quote:
Al Gore > September 23, 2002
“We know that he has stored nuclear supplies, secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
Quote:
Sandy Berger > February 18, 1998
“He’ll use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has 10 times since 1983.”
Quote:
John Kerry > October 9, 2002
“I will be voting to give the president of the US the authority to use force if necessary to disarm Saddam because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
Quote:
Senator Carl Levin > September 19, 2002
“We begin with a common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.”
Quote:
Ted Kennedy > September 27, 2002
“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
Quote:
Senator Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002
“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock. His missile delivery capability, his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists including Al-Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
Quote:
Jay Rockefeller > October 10, 2002
“There was unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. We also should remember that we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”
Quote:
Madeleine Albright > November 10, 1999
“Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
Quote:
Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
“[H]e does have the capacity, as all terrorist-related operations do, of smuggling stuff into the United States and doing something terrible. That is true. But there’s been no connection, hard connection made yet between he and al-Qaida or his willingness or effort to do that thus far. Doesn’t mean he won’t. This is a bad guy.”
Quote:
Robert Byrd > October 3, 2002
“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of ‘98. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons.”
Quote:
Madeline Albright > February 18, 2002
Iraq is a long way from (here), but what happens there matters a great deal here, for the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest national security threat we face — and it is a threat against which we must and will stand firm.”
Quote:
Al Gore > September 23, 2002
“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
Quote:
Jane Harman > August 27, 2002
“I certainly think (Hussein’s) developing nuclear capability which, fortunately, the Israelis set back 20 years ago with their preemptive attack which, in hindsight, looks pretty darn good.”
Quote:
Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
“I think he has anthrax. I have not seen any evidence that he has smallpox, but you hear them say, Tim (Russert), is the last smallpox outbreak in the world was in Iraq; ergo, he may have a strain.”
Quote:
Dick Durbin > September 30, 1999
“One of the most compelling threats we in this country face today is the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Threat assessments regularly warn us of the possibility that North Korea, Iran, Iraq, or some other nation may acquire or develop nuclear weapons.”
Quote:
Bill Clinton > December 17, 1998
“Earlier today, I ordered America’s armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq…. Their mission is to attack Iraq’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.”
Quote:
Bill Nelson > August 25, 2002
“[M]y own personal view is, I think Saddam
has chemical and biological weapons,
and I expect that he is trying to develop
a nuclear weapon. So at some point,
we might have to act precipitously.”
Quote:
Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002
“In the four years since the inspections, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program.”
Quote:
Nancy Pelosi > October 10, 2002
“Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons.”
Quote:
Dick Gephardt > September 23, 2002
“(I have seen) a large body of intelligence information over a long time that he is working on and has weapons of mass destruction. Before 1991, he was close to a nuclear device. Now, you’ll get a debate about whether it’s one year away or five years away.”
Quote:
Evan Bayh > August 4, 2002
“I’m inclined to support going in there and dealing with Saddam, but I think that case
needs to be made on a separate basis: his possession of biological and chemical weapons, his desire to get nuclear weapons, his proven track record of attacking his neighbors and others.”
Quote:
Russell Feingold > October 9, 2002
“With regard to Iraq, I agree Iraq presents a genuine threat, especially in the form of weapons of mass destruction: chemical, biological and potentially nuclear weapons. I agree that Saddam Hussein is exceptionally dangerous and brutal, if not uniquely so, as the president argues.”
Quote:
Bill Clinton > February 17, 1998
“We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st Century…. They will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein.”
Quote:
Johnny Edwards > January 7, 2003
“Serving on the intelligence committee and seeing day after day, week after week, briefings on Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction and his plans on using those weapons, he cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons. It’s just that simple. The whole world changes if Saddam ever has nuclear weapons.”
Quote:
Hillary Clinton > January 22, 2003
“I voted for the Iraqi resolution. I consider the prospect of a nuclear-armed Saddam Hussein who can threaten not only his neighbors but the stability of the region and the world, a very serious threat to the United States.”
Quote:
John Kerry > January 31, 2003
“If you don’t believe…Saddam Hussein
is a threat with nuclear weapons, then
you shouldn’t vote for me.”
Quote:
Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
“We know he continues to attempt to gain access to additional capability, including nuclear capability.”
Quote:
Bill Nelson > September 14, 2002
“I believe he has chemical and biological weapons. I think he’s trying to develop nuclear weapons, and the fact that he might use those is a considerable threat to us.”
Quote:
Johnny Edwards > February 6, 2003
“The question is whether we’re going to allow this man who’s been developing weapons of mass destruction continue to develop weapons of mass destruction, get nuclear capability and get to the place where — if we’re going to stop him if he invades a country around him — it’ll cost millions of lives as opposed to thousands of lives.”
Quote:
Al Gore > September 23, 2002
“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
Quote:
Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
“First of all, we don’t know exactly what he has. It’s been five years since inspectors have been in there, number one. Number two, it is clear that he has residual of chemical weapons and biological weapons, number one.”
Quote:
Tom Daschle > February 11, 1998
“The (Clinton) administration has said, ‘Look, we have exhausted virtually our diplomatic effort to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements and with international law. Given that, what other option is there but to force them to do so?’ That’s what they’re saying. This is the key question. And the answer is we don’t have another option. We have got to force them to comply, and we are doing so militarily.”
Quote:
Senator Bob Graham > December 8, 2002
“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has and has had for a number of years a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.”
Quote:
Bill Richardson > May 29, 1998
“The threat of nuclear proliferation is one of the big challenges that we have now, especially by states that have nuclear weapons, outlaw states like Iraq.”
Quote:
John Kerry > February 23, 1998
“Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East.”
Quote:
Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002
“It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capability to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
Quote:
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:58 pmAl Gore > December 16, 1998
“[I]f you allow someone like Saddam Hussein to get nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, chemical weapons, biological weapons, how many people is he going to kill with such weapons? He has already demonstrated a willingness to use such weapons…”
Oh you will love this 1998 letter to the President in 1998 …… hmmm 1998. ….. :-0
Thats from the U.S. Senate Committee on Armed Services
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:07 pmJust imagine the rhetoric that would be coming from the left media and politicians if in any way wmd were used against Americans on out soil or against the troops abroad. Confirmed as being supplied by Saddam or not.
If the case were different, if the President had not taken any action to secure absolute knowledge that there was not a WMD threat in Iraq. Screw the idea of debating weather there was or was not.
Are you thinking? Are all those little cogs inside your little pinheads destined to forever turn counter clockwise?
If that had been the case you can be sure that the left would be in charge and they would have impeached the president and John Murtha would be whistling a Hawkish tune.
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:17 pmIn the world of Joe’s “logic”, the fact that all these quoted people weren’t the ones to start this fool’s war is completely irrelevant. “Ooooh, the Dems did it too — the Dems did it too !!” What a sophomoric grasping at straws in a last-ditch defense of what is now universally regarded as the largest foreign policy blunder in modern history by pundits and prosteltyzers of every political stripe. No, fella, your boy owns this one lock, stock, and barrel.
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:24 pmObviously Trippin is a brainwashed idiot. He calls the agreement by Bush with all the Dems that we need to go to war a “sophomoric grasping at straws”. Clearly, if Bush had done nothing and the US were attacked again, HE would be the person quoting all these Dems. He would be asking for impeachment because Bush didn’t go to war. He’s just another of the “hate Bush” crowd who will not let any facts or truth get in the way of his feelings.
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:55 pmconcerning the “Murtha Raises Alarm” article: Here’s the condensed version. Murtha says we should surrender as quickly as possible to the terrorists and pull out of Iraq. Unlike thousands of patriotic Americans before him, Murtha does not believe that freedom is worth even one American life. Is this man so stupid to believe that the terrorists will leave us alone if we will only leave Iraq? Apparently he has forgotten that we were NOT in Iraq when the terrorists attacked us right here in America and killed over three thousand innocent people. WHAT AN IDIOT!!!
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:01 pmThe last time America won a war was 1945 and the Democrats are bound and determined that it ain’t gonna ever happen again. Remember the phrase “I’d rather be red than dead”? Now the favorite Democrat phrase is “Worship Allah, to hell with America and it’s freedoms”.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:08 pmHey Trippin got a question for ya.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:12 pm
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:26 pm
I guess Trippin went off to find a forum where everyone agreed with him. Maybe one of those fantasy land threads that avoids facts.
I found him
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/rutrippin.jpg
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:29 pmJoeslogic, you dumbass, you never asked a question. Maybe your cut and pasting ability isn’t what you thought it was…sheeple.
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:33 pm85 was to let Trippin know I was still checking the post. 86 was for Mr. Trippin.
Your not the sharpest tack in the box are you JPark?
See I can still cut and paste.
http://digg.com/users/jpark/friends/list
December 3rd, 2006 at 1:00 amI love you all. Kaneh bosm.
December 3rd, 2006 at 9:59 amThank God (or whomever) for the “internets”! I’m not articulate enough to keep up with you guys, but damn it, I can read and I can think!
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:19 pm