Pundit Admits Forcing Congressman To Swear In With Bible ‘May Well Be’ Unconstitutional
Pundit Admits Forcing Congressman To Swear In With Bible ‘May Well Be’ Unconstitutional
Right-wing talk show host Dennis Prager has raised a firestorm charging that Rep.-elect Kieth Ellison (D-MN), the first Muslim elected to Congress, must swear in using a Bible. He said that if Ellison swears in with a Quran, it would undermine “American civilization” and be akin to swearing in with a copy of Hitler’s “Mein Kampf.”
In an interview with USA Today, Prager acknowledged that “trying to ban Ellison from choosing to use a Quran ‘may well be’ unconstitutional.” As various commentators have pointed out, Prager’s demand violates the Constitution’s provision that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
Also, as ThinkProgress noted yesterday, the entire controversy is moot, since the swearing-in ceremony for the House of Representatives never includes a religious book.
Nevertheless, Prager said today “that he’s going to keep pressing the issue,” and that he’ll “be writing and talking about this issue again.” In a show of support, the American Family Association has launched a campaign urging Congress “to pass a law making the Bible the book used in the swearing-in ceremony of representatives and senators.”
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You gotta love it when right wing radio and talk show hosts are constantly shooting themselves in the foot with the batsh*t things that they’re saying.
We should all thank Dennis Prager for making sure that no Muslim will ever vote Republican.
December 1st, 2006 at 5:45 pm“In a show of support, the American Family Association has launched a campaign urging Congress “to pass a law making the Bible the book used in the swearing-in ceremony of representatives and senators.†”
. . . make me puke.
December 1st, 2006 at 5:47 pmIn a show of support, the American Family Association has launched a campaign urging Congress “to pass a law making the Bible the book used in the swearing-in ceremony of representatives and senators.â€
And to show how I feel about Prager and the American Family Association, I think I’ll go have a weenie roast over a stack of burning bibles. They won’t want to miss how I extinguish the fire when I’m done.
December 1st, 2006 at 5:47 pmJesus Christ…
December 1st, 2006 at 5:48 pmIf Kieth Ellison had to swear an oath in court, would he be required to swear on the Quran? Could he lie if he used a Bible? Will courts across America now have to have a ready supply of whatever religious tome is needed to swear an oath upon? Are we the Balkans yet?
December 1st, 2006 at 5:50 pmInteresting how he feels perfectly comfortable saying basically that the Constitution is wrong and should be defied.
December 1st, 2006 at 5:54 pmWhy would Congressmen and women have to swear over any religious book at all?
Swearing on a religious book or symbol implies they are accountable to a higher power, not the voters. But their responsibilities and political power are not bestowed upon them by any god, but by the people who voted them into office and whose interests they are supposed to represent.
If god is now expected to provide them with moral guidance and authority, why vote at all then? Might as well let whatever god choose who will be the next ruler -however mysterious the god’s ways may be.
December 1st, 2006 at 5:55 pmOur founding fathers saw this coming a mile (and 230 years) away, which is why we have a seperation of church and state. Or so I thought. Really, I swear on a stack of…
Seriously, this guy admits its unconstitutional and then says that he’ll press on with the issue. What’s his premise, that the constitution is unconstitutional?
December 1st, 2006 at 5:55 pmI say use a copy of MAD magazine. I doubt that is offensive to anyone.
December 1st, 2006 at 5:55 pm“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen…”
—Treaty of Tripoli
December 1st, 2006 at 5:56 pmI would also be curious to know if the American Family Association contemplate the possibility that Catholics might refuse to swear on a Protestan Bible.
December 1st, 2006 at 5:57 pm#5-If you worship the flying spaghetti monster, would you then swear in with your hand on a cookbook?
Mmmm…spaghetti.
December 1st, 2006 at 5:58 pmWill courts across America now have to have a ready supply of whatever religious tome is needed to swear an oath upon? Are we the Balkans yet?
Comment by Badmoodman — December 1, 2006 @ 5:50 pm
This is why separation of Church and State is such a good idea. The best solution to this problem is to do away with the use of a religious book altogether.
The legal authority of the courts does not emanate from any god, but from the government that has the capabilities to enforce the laws it has created.
The document that created that government is the constitution. All citizens pledge allegiance to it. If any, that is the document that should be used during the swear-in ceremony.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:01 pmwhere’s our resident newly minted lawyer. BnF?
i THINK it is not a requirement to swear on any religious book…
December 1st, 2006 at 6:02 pmi THINK you only have to “raise your right hand…”
Shorter Prager: I know I’m a f*cking idiot. Look!! A basket of cute puppies!
December 1st, 2006 at 6:02 pmYou’re right, katy. Hence, Prager’s idiocy.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:04 pmClue to Dennis Prager: Wacko Christians are undermining American civiliation.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:06 pm#5-If you worship the flying spaghetti monster, would you then swear in with your hand on a cookbook?
Mmmm…spaghetti.
—- Tuber
And the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster says,” Eat of me and ye shall be full”
December 1st, 2006 at 6:07 pmWe should all thank Dennis Prager for making sure that no Muslim will ever vote Republican.
Ironically, you could lose quite a few other votes with this line of reasoning. Like demanding that Jews swear on the New Testament, or that Catholics swear on the King James version. This is the sort of right-wing “thinking” that should be encouraged…
December 1st, 2006 at 6:08 pmat least two representatives have used a torah, hundreds have used a bible, if this guy wants to use a koran, big Fcuking deal!!!!
Comment by andrea makris
How about one hand in my pants, one hand in someone else’s pants, and my pet iguana on my head?
December 1st, 2006 at 6:12 pmIs Dennis auditioning for a writer’s position on SNL, The Daily Show or The Colbert Report? If not, he should. His material is some kind of funny!
December 1st, 2006 at 6:12 pm#17 andrea makris
you can take it with your hand on a bible, the torah, the quran, a copy of ‘vanity fair’, your hand can be in your pants, in someone else’s pants, with both of your hands removed, or holding your pet kitty!
I think swearing with one hand on your package is about as serious as you can get. That would be my choice, anyway.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:12 pm#21-I think it would depend on whether or not the iguana was circumcised or not. Any lawyers in the house?
December 1st, 2006 at 6:15 pmthanks, zooey - i thought you might also know that answer too, but i didn’t want to put you on the spot… heh…
December 1st, 2006 at 6:15 pmI think it would depend on whether or not the iguana was circumcised or not….
Comment by Tuber
Oh my, is there a polite way to look?
December 1st, 2006 at 6:20 pmOh, Jesus H. Christ in a minivan. WHAT IS IT with these people?! They would rather work towards making have some bigoted piece of trash ‘law’ than solve the real problems facing the country.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:20 pmI linked through the AFA’s site & asked to send an e-mail to all my representatives (and some others).
I then changed the subject line & text of the letter to say what I thought & it wasn’t kind nor polite what I thought of the AFA or Prager. Bozo’s.
However, I highly recommend everyone allowing the AFA to pay for our e-mails to congress telling them what assholes and dumbshits the AFA & Prager are.
Happy Friday all.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:21 pmIf you worship the flying spaghetti monster, would you then swear in with your hand on a cookbook?
Comment by Tuber — December 1, 2006 @ 5:58 pm
Does this mean Playboy will soon become a religious manuscript? Because I know far more men who worship The Vagina than Jeebus…
December 1st, 2006 at 6:22 pmThe document that created that government is the constitution. All citizens pledge allegiance to it. If any, that is the document that should be used during the swear-in ceremony.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — December 1, 2006 @ 6:01 pm
That is the most reasonable solution. So… We can expect neocons to be against it then.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:25 pmThank God for our Constitution that permits freedom of religion. Defend it don’t pick it apart.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:25 pmPrager does not care about the constitution, just like Bush and the rest of the Republicans.
They have spent the last 6 years trying to dismantle it and shread it.
In the oath for military service, you swear to protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. If you are a vet, that oath still holds.
These Repukes make me sick and if the Dems cannot stop them, it may be close to the time for the military and vets to step up and stop these domestic enemies.
This crap of letting them violate and undermine the Constitution has to stop one way or another.
Yeah, I am pissed….
December 1st, 2006 at 6:26 pmCongressmen shouldn’t be swearing anyway.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:27 pmHow about one hand in my pants, one hand in someone else’s pants, and my pet iguana on my head?
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 6:12 pm
This is why I don’t drink and read Zoo’s comments… LOL!
Okay, Zoo - but only after you’ve interrogated a Mormon boy about his sacred underpants… :D
December 1st, 2006 at 6:27 pmWhoo-hoo! Now we’re talking!
I meant to say above, just too irritated to get it right:
They would rather work towards making some bigoted piece of trash ‘law’ than solve the real problems facing the country.
Had an extra word in there.
This is why we haven’t been paying attention to them. Because what they say and want to endorse is so mindnumbingly stupid that we have just walked away shaking our heads. Gotta call them on their shit; they’re destructive as termites.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:28 pmat least two representatives have used a torah, hundreds have used a bible, if this guy wants to use a koran, big Fcuking deal!!!!
Comment by andrea makris
How about one hand in my pants, one hand in someone else’s pants, and my pet iguana on my head?
Comment by Zooey
ok, now that was soda out the nose funny, both of you. =D
December 1st, 2006 at 6:29 pmThank God for our Constitution that permits freedom of religion. Defend it don’t pick it apart.
Comment by Kevin Good — December 1, 2006 @ 6:25 pm
Your god had nothing to do with the Constitution. It was composed by a bunch of free thinking Humanists who detested Christianity, and all other organized religions, in private.
Why they gave us freedom FROM religion.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:30 pm“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
–James Madison
December 1st, 2006 at 6:36 pmyou all should go to http://www.townhall.com where pragers article appeared and read for yourself the hate and bigotry spwed at this web site. thank god these people are out of power.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:40 pmOkay, Zoo - but only after you’ve interrogated a Mormon boy about his sacred underpants… :D
Comment by unbelievable
I did wave to them on the street today. I must be putting out some sort of vibe, because they are not coming to my door.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:42 pmIt was composed by a bunch of free thinking Humanists who detested Christianity, and all other organized religions, in private.
whoa! i gotta say - that’s quite an amazing blanket statement…
December 1st, 2006 at 6:44 pm“detested”? …that’s not what i got from their history… just sayin’…
but oh well…
Christianist are going to be gunnin’ for our Democratic congress so be prepared for oh so much more of this nonsense. And let’s be ready to pummel them into the ground everytime they do.
If you guys haven’t seen this, you are missing one of the funniest videos I’ve seen yet:
December 1st, 2006 at 6:46 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8×14cLGh5o
I did wave to them on the street today. I must be putting out some sort of vibe, because they are not coming to my door.
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 6:42 pm
And that’s a bad thing? :)
December 1st, 2006 at 6:46 pmAnd that’s a bad thing? :)
Comment by unbelievable
Not in my humble opinion, but you are dying to know about the Mormon boys’ sacred underpants, so…..
December 1st, 2006 at 6:52 pmI was just over at Redstate, lurking…They booted me from posting there years ago. I was surprised to see one thread or Erick’s where most of them, including Erick thought Prager was wrong. Mind you, it had enough idiots to make it interesting but shockingly most of ‘em thought reasonably.
One of ‘em even linked to the ThinkProgress post up from yesterday showing the Clerk saying no book is used.
Enjoy all.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:52 pmKaty: “that’s not what i got from their history… just sayin’…
but oh well…”
Jefferson: “I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”
and this gem from Jefferson: “Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies.”
Katy, my history teacher in high school also forgot to mention some of these Fouders’ views.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:54 pmThanks for all the great info, j.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:57 pmI have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies.
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Woods (undated), referring to “our particular superstition,” Christianity, from John E Remsburg, Six Historic Americans: Thomas Jefferson, quoted from Franklin Steiner, Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents (1936), “Thomas Jefferson, Freethinker”
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason: The Morning Daylight appears plainer when you put out your Candle.
– Benjamin Franklin, the incompatibility of faith and reason, Poor Richard’s Almanack (1758)
I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshiped by many who think themselves Christians.
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price from Paris, January 8, 1789. (Price had said, “There has been in almost all religions a melancholy separation of religion from morality.” Surely Jefferson is using the word atheism as a synonym for wickedness or immorality; this was a common and accepted usage of the word 200 years ago. — Cliff Walker)
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
– Thomas Paine, (1737-1809), The Age of Reason, pt. 1, “The Author’s Profession of Faith” (1794), quoted from The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations
Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
– Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82
I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.
– Benjamin Franklin, quoted from Victor J Stenger, Has Science Found God? (2001)
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
– John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
… the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced or knew that such a character existed.
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Major John Cartwright, June 5, 1824 (see Positive Atheism’s Historical section)
Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.
– Benjamin Franklin
Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.
– John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816, from James A Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief
Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system.
– Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine (which contains no pagination or source citations)
I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!
– John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, from George Seldes, The Great Quotations, also from James A Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief
It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.
– Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine (which contains no pagination or source citations)
The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on nothing; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing and admits of no conclusion.
– Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1793-5), quoted from Jonathon Green, The Cassell Dictionary of Cynical Quotations
Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle.
December 1st, 2006 at 6:59 pm– Thomas Jefferson, to Richard Rush, 1813
Okay, Zoo - but only after you’ve interrogated a Mormon boy about his sacred underpants… :D
Comment by unbelievable
I did wave to them on the street today. I must be putting out some sort of vibe, because they are not coming to my door.
— Zooey
OK, no more soda when reading TP. =)
I laughed out loud and 2 of the people with desks near mine came to look and now they are busting up. LOL
December 1st, 2006 at 6:59 pmNot in my humble opinion, but you are dying to know about the Mormon boys’ sacred underpants, so…..
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 6:52 pm
Me? You wanted proof. So I was creative in how you obtained it… So, shoot me :D
December 1st, 2006 at 7:02 pmOne of ‘em even linked to the ThinkProgress post up from yesterday showing the Clerk saying no book is used.
Enjoy all.
— kindness
Thats why we had such a big idiot troll invasion yesterday…….
December 1st, 2006 at 7:02 pmBlueDog — re: James Madison
Here we are some 230 years later, and Madison’s words are more cogent than ever for it is clear that our long battle with religious fundamentalism has only increased in intensity. There is a reason for this — it didn’t happen by accident. I already posted this article from the Atlantic Free Press, but it is worth posting again, because it is crucial to recognize the pernicious role of Zionism in this fight to retain our freedoms. The foul stench from these Evangelical Dominionists would not exist without the philosophical and financial support of Zionism.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:06 pmI laughed out loud and 2 of the people with desks near mine came to look and now they are busting up. LOL
Comment by Wayne — December 1, 2006 @ 6:59 pm
Only in a liberal blog :)
December 1st, 2006 at 7:08 pm“The Army doesn’t massacre the Indians. It massacres demons, and the Indians are demon possessed; they are communists. We hold Brother EfraÃn RÃos Montt like King David of the Old Testament. He is the king of the New Testament.”
– Unnamed Pastor, quoted in “Sectas y religiosidad en America Latina,” pub Instituto Latinoamericano de Estudios Transnacionales, Casilla 16637, Correo 9, Santiago, Chile, October, 1984, p 23. When Jimmy Carter cut off aid to Montt, Pat Robertson and other fundamentalist Christians sent millions to support his regime in the name of Christ. Quoted from Therion Ware, “Christianity — Killing For Christ?.”
December 1st, 2006 at 7:10 pmMe? You wanted proof. So I was creative in how you obtained it… So, shoot me :D
Comment by unbelievable
You don’t think I’m going to admit that, do you? :)
December 1st, 2006 at 7:11 pmAs regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power.
– Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
December 1st, 2006 at 7:11 pmFor the first time in a long time, our leaders in Washington understand what Americans of all religious backgrounds have long held to be true: through faith, all things are possible.
– John Ashcroft, baiting atheists, separationists, and non-Evangelicals in a speech given at a January 13 political function in Denver, Colorado, on supporting faith-based initiatives, during which Ashcroft quoted the Bible and said fear and bigotry lead to discrimination against faith-based charities in the past, quoted from the Associated Press (January 14, 2003) †â€
We are a nation called to defend freedom — a tradition that is not a grant of any government or document, but is an endowment from God.
– John Ashcroft, as if deliberately ignoring the very document he allegedly swore to uphold, speaking to a group of Christian broadcasters, on February 18, 2002, quoted from Rob Morse, “The gospel according to John (Ashcroft)”
December 1st, 2006 at 7:13 pmI laughed out loud and 2 of the people with desks near mine came to look and now they are busting up. LOL
Comment by Wayne
Sorry about the pop up the nose, Wayne. :)
Several months ago, I told unbelievable that next time the Mormon boys came to my door I was going to ask to see their sacred undergarments. The only Mormons to come to my door since that day have been two Mormon girls, and I couldn’t bring myself to ask them. Naturally Zoo Jr is in the kitchen rolling around on the floor laughing, watching his mama lose her nerve.
I’m here to bring joy to the masses….
December 1st, 2006 at 7:16 pmYou don’t think I’m going to admit that, do you? :)
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 7:11 pm
Only after you’ve seen the sacred panties. They are so mesmerizing that you won’t be able to help yourself :D
December 1st, 2006 at 7:17 pmHoly cow, I had never seen the Townhall site before today. I could not imagine a more revolting collection of writers. Did they set out to attract every one of the most decadent pundits in America or do these kinds of people just naturally congregate? I wonder.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:18 pmi trust you have seen the photographs of actual mitt romneyesque mormon underwear?
Comment by andrea makris
Oh my god, j, those are some HOT underpants. Not!
unbelievable, look at j’s link in #55.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:21 pm“The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles.”
John Adams
December 1st, 2006 at 7:22 pmZoo - would it be a shock to your sensibilities if you were to learn Mormons went “camando?”
Not starting rumors, mind you, just wondering!!!
December 1st, 2006 at 7:24 pmZoo - would it be a shock to your sensibilities if you were to learn Mormons went “camando?â€
Not starting rumors, mind you, just wondering!!!
Comment by Jules
Sensibilities, schmensibilities!!
December 1st, 2006 at 7:29 pmAfter looking at j’s link at #55, it would be a relief.
I think the mormon undies are rather sexy…..in a celebate sort of way!!!
December 1st, 2006 at 7:32 pmgreat job of “copy and paste”, un… as per your usual…
but, even of those 3 listed signers of the Declaration of Independance (thomas paine was not), i didn’t get even a hint of “detest”… no matter…
whenever someone tells me about how this country was founded on christian ideals i like to refer them to a very good article in the nation by brooke allen, Our Godless Constitution…
December 1st, 2006 at 7:33 pmshe is working on a book form, i’ve heard… should be great…
.
unbelievable, look at j’s link in #55.
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 7:21 pm
I bet you’re gonna buy some aren’t you? :)
December 1st, 2006 at 7:34 pmHall of Fame QB Steve Young wore sacred underwear while setting records in the NFL. When asked if he thought it gave him an advantage, he answered that he wasn’t sure.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:35 pmI think the mormon undies are rather sexy…..in a celebate sort of way!!!
Comment by Jules — December 1, 2006 @ 7:32 pm
LOL
December 1st, 2006 at 7:36 pmLet’s take a look at the religious book in question, that people think strengthens their faith:
My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.
– Song of Solomon 5:4 (AV)
There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
– Ezekiel 23:20 (NIV)
Think not that I (Jesus) am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother…
– Matthew 10:34-35 (AV)
Thy navel is like a round goblet, … thy belly is like an heap of wheat.
– Song of Solomon 7:2b (AV)
If a man [meets] a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her … He must marry the girl … He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:40 pm– Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV)
unbelievable, those biblical quotes are simply unbelievable!
December 1st, 2006 at 7:45 pmDenial is a very powerful force. What a sad state of affairs this has become. Swaring in using any religious reference Christian/Muslim/Whatever is unconstitutional IMO. So is that Under God thing in the Pledge.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:47 pmI bet you’re gonna buy some aren’t you? :)
Comment by unbelievable
Why start wearing underwear now…?
December 1st, 2006 at 7:47 pmMan, why do these conservative windbags hate the United States Constitution so much? Why are they always so eager to hate the legal foundation the United States of America?
December 1st, 2006 at 7:51 pmZooey goes commando!!! Could be a movie in your future! :)
December 1st, 2006 at 7:53 pmThe American Taliban continues to rear its ugly head.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:57 pmZooey goes commando!!! Could be a movie in your future! :)
Comment by Jules
Actually I prefer the itchy long red flannel underwear with the flap in the back, but it’s embarassing to admit it. :-D
Hey Jules, long time no see.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:57 pmunbelievable, those biblical quotes are simply unbelievable!
Comment by Bluedog49 — December 1, 2006 @ 7:45 pm
Aren’t they though? Many Atheists say that reading it made them give up religion.
In fact, some Atheists are promoting National Bible Week (or whatever it’s called) on the premise that it will educate many who have never have.
December 1st, 2006 at 7:58 pmWhy start wearing underwear now…?
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 7:47 pm
It’s not a state law in Idaho that you must?
December 1st, 2006 at 8:01 pmHey Jules, long time no see.
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 7:57 pm
I’ve been lurking but no time to post. I had to take a part time job for awhile to pay DR bills for my child. It is so sad that most teachers I know, especially the ones with kids, need to have a second job.
On an up note (so tot speak). The thought of the back flap brings to mind a whole new idea for a movie.
I swear my mind is in the gutter!! It must be from working with all of those hormonal teenagers!
December 1st, 2006 at 8:05 pmNo, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.
– George Bush, to American Atheists’ reporter Robert Sherman in 1987, while serving as vice-president
December 1st, 2006 at 8:06 pmIt’s not a state law in Idaho that you must?
Comment by unbelievable
Don’t ask, don’t tell.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:09 pmFunniest part of the article: USA Today’s Mark Memmott describing Glenn Reynolds as “an often independent voice”.
Gotta love that liberal media.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:11 pm51 - Unbelievable, great post.
I believe the more organizations like the American Family Association in particular and Evangelical Christians in general push thier agenda, the more people will turn away from believing in Christ as the Son of God, and the more people will turn away from believing in the Bible as the Holy Word of God.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:12 pm“I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood.”
“Here’s another question I’ve been pondering — what is all this shit about angels? Have you heard this? Three out of four people belive in angels. Are you f*cking stupid? Has everybody lost their mind? You know what I think it is? I think it’s a massive, collective, psychotic chemical flashback for all the drugs smoked, swallowed, shot, and obsorbed rectally by all Americans from 1960 to 1990. Thirty years of street drugs will get you some f*cking angels, my friend!
I noticed that of all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers that I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50 percent rate. Half the time I get what I want. Half the time I don’t. Same as God — 50-50.
– George Carlin
December 1st, 2006 at 8:15 pmDon’t ask, don’t tell.
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 8:09 pm
What’s the punishment if you tell? Six months in Mormon undies?
December 1st, 2006 at 8:17 pm“Indeed, one modern President abjured God altogether, ending speeches with a chaste ‘Thank you very much.’ This was Jimmy Carter, the most genuinely devout President of the postwar period.”
– Jonathan Rauch, “McGod Bless America,” National Journal, June 26, 1999
December 1st, 2006 at 8:17 pmThe thought of the back flap brings to mind a whole new idea for a movie.
I swear my mind is in the gutter!! It must be from working with all of those hormonal teenagers!
Comment by Jules
Hey, I throw them out there, and ya’ll keep bringing on the good stuff. :)
I hope your child is ok now, Jules.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:19 pmWhat’s the punishment if you tell? Six months in Mormon undies?
Comment by unbelievable
Hair shirt. Don’t remind me…
December 1st, 2006 at 8:20 pmSwearing in on a Bible is just plain silliness. Since the very act shows that the swearer doe not believe that the book is truth, for it says in the Bible that one should never swear to anything positive or negative.
Matthew 5:34-37, Let your yes be yes and your no be no. To strengthen your promise with a vow is evil.
James 5:12, Do not swear, simply say yes or no so you do not sin and fall into condemnation.
Leviticus 5:4 To swear, pronouncing with your lips to do evil or good, whatever you pronounce with an oath you shall be guilty of…free thinkers don’t necessarily have the mind of Christ.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:20 pmWhy start wearing underwear now…?
— Zooey
Thats what I say. Its so, so confining.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:21 pmThings adjust better with that underwear out of the way, hehe
Comment by Jules — December 1, 2006 @ 7:53 pm
Ah yes, our dear Zooey as a Scottish lassie staring in “Bravepart” the true story of the path to September 11, 1006, the date the “highland fling” was invented! See the fortunes of the Scottish Kings rise and fall as Zooey beguiles them all in a Scottish version of Scheherazade as she performs to the skirl of the bagpipes that seductive “Dance of the Seven Kilts.“
December 1st, 2006 at 8:21 pmI believe the more organizations like the American Family Association in particular and Evangelical Christians in general push thier agenda, the more people will turn away from believing in Christ as the Son of God, and the more people will turn away from believing in the Bible as the Holy Word of God.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — December 1, 2006 @ 8:12 pm
Thanks… My principal actually stated that this country was founded upon Christian ideals by Christian men, so I put this together for the next time she said that. It won’t go over well, I’m sure, but I didn’t show up in the education system to make friends :). She actually sent us an email for our faculty “Christmas Party”. I declined on the basis that it was a religious celebration… In a government institution - and that it didn’t respect me as someone who is admittedly “not religious”…
I hope you are right. It is basic Physics, after all, that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction…
December 1st, 2006 at 8:23 pmI swear my mind is in the gutter!! It must be from working with all of those hormonal teenagers!
Comment by Jules — December 1, 2006 @ 8:05 pm
Whew! I’m glad it’s not just me… :)
Everything I look at looks like a sexual body part lately…
December 1st, 2006 at 8:26 pmZoo - she is so much better. Her closest guy friend died in a very horrible car accident the Sat before school started in August. He was like her brother. I know that sounds trite but it is true. She is an only child and they were very, very close. She went downhill fast. She would not talk with me and I finally convinced her to see someone she might be able to talk with. It has worked wonders. She will never be as happy and carefree as she was but at least she is smiling again!!!
December 1st, 2006 at 8:28 pmHair shirt. Don’t remind me…
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 8:20 pm
Hair shirt? You have a lot of goats in Northern Idaho eh?
December 1st, 2006 at 8:29 pm“Dance of the Seven Kilts.“
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
I literally have tears running down my face, because I’m laughing so hard.
You sure you want to be a lawyer…?
December 1st, 2006 at 8:29 pmJules,
That is terrible. I’m so sorry. I’m glad she got the help she needed. She’ll be a new happy and carefree one day.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:32 pmShe will never be as happy and carefree as she was but at least she is smiling again!!!
Comment by Jules — December 1, 2006 @ 8:28 pm
Life is tough. Sucks when children die.
December 1st, 2006 at 8:32 pmHair shirt? You have a lot of goats in Northern Idaho eh?
Comment by unbelievable
Yeah. So?
*not sounding defensive at all*
December 1st, 2006 at 8:33 pmBDF- that song sounds familiar. Can you hum a few bars?
Actually - the idea of the scottish kings fortunes rising and falling puts a whole new twist to the movie!!!
December 1st, 2006 at 8:35 pmYeah. So?
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 8:33 pm
How exactly do you “pluck” one for making hairshirts?
December 1st, 2006 at 8:38 pmHair shirt? You have a lot of goats in Northern Idaho eh?
Comment by unbelievable
Yeah. So?
*not sounding defensive at all*
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 8:33 pm
Must a “hair shirt” be made from a goat?
December 1st, 2006 at 8:38 pmHow exactly do you “pluck†one for making hairshirts?
Comment by unbelievable
As if I’d know. Like a chicken…?
Must a “hair shirt†be made from a goat?
Comment by Jules
I believe one could also make a hair shirt from horse hair. But I don’t know how to pluck a horse, either.
Why are you picking on me? **sniff**
December 1st, 2006 at 8:43 pmUnbe - you would have liked this kid. He was funny and smart and just a really good kid. And it does suck.
I do hope you are right about her being happy and carefree again.
In any event, she is nagging me to go out for pizza. These days I jump whenever she wants to do anything out of the house!!!
December 1st, 2006 at 8:47 pmOK - while I am out I am going to look for some chicken hair undies.
Get this- I showed my daughter the mormon underwear as she has friends who are mormon. She is now researching it on her computer. Now that’s funny!!!
December 1st, 2006 at 8:52 pmThings adjust better with that underwear out of the way, hehe
Comment by Wayne
Um, thanks Wayne! I’ll keep that in mind. :)
December 1st, 2006 at 8:55 pmWhy are you picking on me? **sniff**
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 8:43 pm
I thought we were batting the silliness of human culture back and forth like a badmitton birdie?
December 1st, 2006 at 8:55 pmJules -
Enjoy your pizza!
If there is to be light out of the dark it is that you and your daughter are valuing your lives more than ever.
People think I am nuts that I don’t care for babies, but love teenagers. I meet very few that I don’t adore. Makes the job meaningful. And why we tolerate the Administrators and bureaucrats who tell us what a good teacher is with recipies and lists…
December 1st, 2006 at 9:00 pmI thought we were batting the silliness of human culture back and forth like a badmitton birdie?
Comment by unbelievable
Just honing my emotional blackmail skillz.
December 1st, 2006 at 9:02 pmJust honing my emotional blackmail skillz.
Comment by Zooey — December 1, 2006 @ 9:02 pm
Ah… I see.
Well, this has been fun, as always, but it’s time for tearing myself away from the computer to go feed the kitties.
See ya tomorrow…
Have a good evening everyone!
December 1st, 2006 at 9:10 pmShe actually sent us an email for our faculty “Christmas Partyâ€. I declined on the basis that it was a religious celebration… In a government institution - and that it didn’t respect me as someone who is admittedly “not religiousâ€â€¦
Your kidding right? I guess everyone sees different things.
Some see Christmas as the birthday of their diety.
Some see it as a “False holiday” and anything that says it is an insult to them
Still others see it as a wonderful time of year where people are generally nicer to each other. As an occassion that brings families together from across the country. A reminder that we have to think about others and take that break in our daily lives to appreciate each other. (My personal favorite) The looks on the kids faces when they are opening presents, the couple hours afterwards where they are so entranced and jumping from toy to toy like a mongoose on crack.
Here is something pretty funny (to me anyway and it’s a friday), our old CEO was jewish. The first year he started the company everyone wanted a Christmas party. They made him dress up as Santa for the party for all the kids of the employees. They had to teach him what to do because he never experienced it. Every year till he retired you couldn’t take that outfit away from him (No he didn’t turn christian, he just loved the looks in the kids eyes when he talked to them), there is even a rumor that he is going to come in for the christmas party just for that this year.
December 1st, 2006 at 9:55 pmTuesday,
Tuesday is considered either the second or the third day of the week, between Monday and Wednesday. The word “Tuesday” comes from Middle English Twisday, from Old English Tiwes dæg, a rendering of Latin Martis dies. The English and Scandinavian names are derived from the Nordic god Tyr (in Old English, Tiw, Tew or Tiu. In Swedish, Tisdag, Danish: Tirsdag, Finnish: Tiistai and in Norwegian: Tirsdag, Icelandic: Þriðjudagur.) Tyr was the Norse equivalent of the Roman war god Mars, hence Martis dies (”Mars’s day”).
Sure hope she doesn’t have the audacity to send an e-mail stating there will be a meeting on a Tuesday :)
December 1st, 2006 at 10:20 pmDang Tundra - I’m glad all of oour meetings are held on Wednesdays! :)
I love Christmas. I love the fact that everyone, for at least one month out of the year, is actually nice to one another when they meet on the street. I love the carols. I love finding the perfect presents for my family. I love midnight mass. I know this is not the “true meaning” or what we are supposed to be celebrating, but I have loved this time of year since I was a child and I will always love it!!!
December 1st, 2006 at 10:49 pmThis article completly misrepresented what Dennis said. anybody who knows Dennis knows that he is not racist whatsoever.
the point he is trying to make is not even mentioned. what he is saying is that the values of America are based on the Bible - that is the value system of our country. It does not matter what Ellison wants to swear on, the country asks (but does not demand) that he use the tome on which American values are based. This is a tradition honored ever since George Washington brought a Bible to swear on when he took his oath of office. Jews and secularists alike have done the same thing.
December 1st, 2006 at 10:51 pmPrager and the AFA are a set of douchebags. But everyone here already knows that.
December 1st, 2006 at 10:58 pmPrager has no standing to demand anything, much less violate the Constitution. He’s a religious zealot who wants to use the power of government to promote his religion.
December 1st, 2006 at 11:05 pmIn a show of support, the American Family Association has launched a campaign urging Congress “to pass a law making the Bible the book used in the swearing-in ceremony of representatives and senators.â€
The AFA can shove it up their arses first.
December 1st, 2006 at 11:16 pmfor you, bobby:
December 1st, 2006 at 11:17 pmwhenever someone tells me about how this country was founded on christian ideals i like to refer them to a very good article in the nation by brooke allen, Our Godless Constitution…
.
the point he is trying to make is not even mentioned. what he is saying is that the values of America are based on the Bible - that is the value system of our country.
Bobby
…only its not. We’re not based on christianity. We don’t want to be based on any religion.
Hell, The first amendent is DIRECTLY against the teachings of the bible. Freedom of Religion is completely discouraged in the bible. Encouraging stoning as a punishment.
December 1st, 2006 at 11:18 pmooops
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:18 amThe American Family Association is clearly an unamerican terrorist organization that wants to subvert the Constitution of the United States of America.
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:49 amRunning away, again, coward?
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:50 amI own this siteâ€
Bwahahahahaaaaaaa
Comment by Osama Bin Democrat — December
You don’t own anything coward.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:51 amAre you going to run away again?
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:52 amOsama is a Democrat
*******
Extra ignored
*******
Comment by Osama Bin Democrat — December 2, 2006 @ 4:19 am
What a bone-head.
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:55 amDennis Prager never compared the Quran to Mein Kampf, you are a liar. Are you trying to get another Jew killed in the name of Islam? Please get your facts right.
Sincerely,
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:07 amBrian Ganek
MoonBatPatrol (aka numerous other names)
Therapy not working yet? I see you still post under several different names to hijack a thread
I also see your debate skills come from cutting and pasting from a rightwing web site.
Can you not offer material (i.e. thoughts) of your own?
Can you not debate (mano e mano) without constantly degrading to a pre-adolesence ability? (actually, that’s not fair to pre-adolesents. My toddlers have better debating skills than you)
Your “tough man” drivel is pathetic. But I really do understand that you’re crying…screaming for attention. Lonely, partnerless, living in your basement can reek havoc on anyone’s psyche. Get out, see the real world, experience “the human touch”…….LIVE, lil buddy, LIVE
Oh, in case I forgot to address your multiple post names regurgitating the same rightwing nonsense:
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:10 amCOWARD!
once again
COWARD!
please - even moonbat wasn’t as pathetic as this one…
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:36 amit’s embarrassing that anyone here engages with it at all…
I love Prager because he puts the lefts panties in a bunch.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:56 amwhat’s embarrassing is you being such a judgemental butt-in-sky. just shut up already. you have no room to criticize others. you are petty and that’s embarrassing too.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:03 amI warmly recommend y’all listen to Dennis Prager’s own elaboration and elucidation of this ‘firestorm’ and of his position and his original column.
You can listen to it all here:
Tripleheader
More On the Oath Issue
I also recommend Prager’s maxim and motto: “Prefer Clarity to Agreement”.
In contradistinction to that very helpful principle, many of the commetators on this thread seem determined to deliberately misunderstand and misrepresent their opponent, and then to use tags, labels, names, charicatures and stigmata to demolish their straw man.
Handy. No need to follow the argument. Just misrepresent, slander and defame.
By the way, did you all listen to Malik, speaking for Muslims, on Hannity and Comes? It’s replayed on the podcast linked above.
What did y’all think of his claim that our Western heritage and democracy was dependent on Islam?
What did you think of his beginning to chant the name of Islam, as if he were praying in the Mosque, just as the debate ended?
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:20 pmMuslims who love America’s values (ie Liberty, e pluribus unum, In God we trust) would consider whichever party upholds more of their values.
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:17 pmAre you not open minded enough to accept the fact that at some times in history in some cultures stoning was part of punishment? The Bible transmits values and its stories should be read in the context of their era.
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:24 pmAre you not open minded enough to accept the fact that at some times in history in some cultures stoning was part of punishment?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4477003.stm
Even still is, with certain groups in some places.
The Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission said the woman had been sentenced to death by a decree from the local religious scholar
During the Taleban’s rule, women were regularly stoned to death for adultery.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:28 pmYour kidding right? I guess everyone sees different things.
Why would I be kidding? Just because you don’t have the spine to admit your are an Agnostic or Atheist doesn’t mean I don’t.
Christ-Mass it’s pretty much right there in the name. Even if tehy did steal the concept from the pagans…
Some see Christmas as the birthday of their diety.
Some see it as a “False holiday†and anything that says it is an insult to them
Some people believe the sun revolves around the Earth. Some accept that it does not.
Still others see it as a wonderful time of year where people are generally nicer to each other. (snip) The looks on the kids faces when they are opening presents, the couple hours afterwards where they are so entranced and jumping from toy to toy like a mongoose on crack.
Oh, I get your point… because it is acceptable to you, then everyone must accept it? I keep forgetting that you expect people to do things your way even if they must lie to themselves to follow tradition. What makes you a conservative and me not.
Every year till he retired you couldn’t take that outfit away from him (No he didn’t turn christian, he just loved the looks in the kids eyes when he talked to them), there is even a rumor that he is going to come in for the christmas party just for that this year.
Comment by Tundra — December 1, 2006 @ 9:55 pm
Are you 12? It would explain a lot.
You seem to have forgotten that I work for the US government. Throwing a Christmas Party, as well at the secret Santa program they are running, ignores everyone else who either isn’t Christian or who hasn’t changed their view of it to follow along.
It’s my right to boycott such ignorance. It’s yours to be intolerant of my right to abstain.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:47 pmJust because you don’t have the spine to admit your are an Agnostic or Atheist doesn’t mean I don’t.
My Dog Tags said no religious Preference. My mother is upset none of her children believe in god. I have admitedly never been “treated any different for it” I suppose I could run around trying to find things people are doing against me. If they didn’t invite you, then they are treating you different because you are an athiest. If a group of them are on break and discussing it and you walk in the room. They all shut up and leave to somewhere else to discuss Christmas plans, is that wrong or are they being considerate of your beliefs? You enjoy the confrontation.
You seem to have forgotten that I work for the US government.
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:38 pmNo, I didn’t. I realize that you are using Government funded computers, on a government funded internet line, with electricity being paid for by government funds, While being paid a government funded salary, to post on political websites demanding regulation and accountability of funds.
It’s my right to boycott such ignorance. It’s yours to be intolerant of my right to abstain.
Comment by unbelievable — December 2, 2006 @ 4:47 pm
Does your boycot include not accepting payment for the 2 weeks off you get during Christmas?
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:51 pmCool, I never knew the Taliban liked to get stoned. Spark one up Mullah!
-GSD
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:00 pmDoes your boycot include not accepting payment for the 2 weeks off you get during Christmas?
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 5:51 pm
* * * *
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:23 pm?
#21 I am not sure about the iguana but your other ideas are golden.
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:01 pm#29 But most of us don’t call it a vagina. That makes us feel kinda ookey. :)
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:02 pm#75 The bible is the pre-Penthouse Letters!!
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:05 pm#95 I agree. If Ellison did swear on the bible these same losers would be calling it blasphemy. He can’t win with this group of mouthbreathers.
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:07 pm#117 Well, Tundra, I, as an atheist and former Xtian, celebrate Christmas (I DO keep the Christ in Christmas for traditions sake…and Mas just doesn’t have that pizzazz). However, I think that just assuming everybody does is just egocentric. I think knowing your coworkers would go a long way in deciding whether to ask somebody to participate. I am guessing that your Jewish CEO was ok with it and had a sense of humor. Otherwise, that would be an awful thing you did. Do you really want to be the ghost of Kwanza past (yeah, I know, there probably isn’t any such thing.)
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:14 pmOK - as unbe is not here I will answer the question Tundra asked.
Teachers are salaried. Our contracts are based on the DAYS TAUGHT. ie, we do not get paid for weekends and holidays. I receive pay for 183 days of work per year. They choose to pay me in equal monthly installments over 12 months. They say it is so we will have money during the summer. I think they just do not want to pay us what they owe us up front!!!
So….unbe is not receiving “vacation” pay for christmas. No teacher does.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:44 pmIf Ellison did swear on the bible these same losers would be calling it blasphemy.
Yeah, and why would you want someone to swear in on something they don’t believe in. It’s like saying swear on this Betty Crocker cookbook that you are telling the truth.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:48 pmOtherwise, that would be an awful thing you did.
Oh, I didn’t, it started long before I got there, I wouldn’t of had the audacity.
Do you really want to be the ghost of Kwanza past (yeah, I know, there probably isn’t any such thing.)
I don’t know, Intention means alot to me. If someone wishes me a happy “Kwanza” and means it, I am honored they care enough about me to include me in their holiday celebrations. If someone had a family tradition that on August 4th they invite their friends over and wash their feet. I would be honored that I was considered that important to them (Not sure how many people I would let do it, but I wouldn’t be insulted by it).
Then again this is just me, I do realize others feel different and that’s OK too (just don’t tell Unbelievable)
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:57 pmI think knowing your coworkers would go a long way in deciding whether to ask somebody to participate.
Agreed, this is Unbelievable’s first year at that school, so I’m sure they were trying to make her feel welcome and like one of the team. She felt insulted and replied with.
I declined on the basis that it was a religious celebration… In a government institution - and that it didn’t respect me as someone who is admittedly “not religiousâ€â€¦
I hope they got the hint and don’t invite her any more.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:01 pmSo….unbe is not receiving “vacation†pay for christmas. No teacher does.
Comment by Jules — December 2, 2006 @ 9:44 pm
Thank you, I learned something new.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:02 pm[…] US Representative-elect Kieth Ellison wants to be sworn into office with his hand on the Quran instead of the Bible. Some conservatives are condemning this act (specifically pundit Dennis Prager) because "the act undermines American civilization." The other argument is that it would embolden terrorists. A few facts: - Representative-elect Keith Ellison is a Democrat (the liberal political party) for the state of Minnesota. He was elected during last month’s elections in the US, and will take his office in January. - Representative-elect Keith Ellison is the first Muslim to be elected to Congress. - The official swearing-in ceremony does not involve any religious texts, but anyone being sworn in can hold a religious text if they choose. - The UNofficial swearing-in ceremony takes place after the official ceremony. This is usually for photo-ops and the member being sworn-in traditionally places one hand on the Christian Bible during that ceremony. It is this unofficial ceremony, where Representative Ellison would be using the Quran. - The US Constitution states that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” Historical background: - Supreme Court Justice Arthur J. Goldberg had used "the Tanakh" (the Hebrew Bible) during his swearing-in ceremony in 1962. - Republican Sen. Gordon Smith of Oregon, carried a volume of Mormon scriptures that included the Bible and the Book of Mormon at his swearing-in ceremony in 1997. Linkys: USA Today article. The Conservative Voice article Notice how the no-bias conservative article states that Rep. Ellison is "DEMANDING" the use of the Quran. ThinkProgress.org article The liberal response. Mercurynews.com article a little background information on the ceremony. —————————————— Personally, I think conservatives are making a big deal over nothing, but I’d like to hear other people’s opinions on this. […]
December 3rd, 2006 at 3:07 amI’d never heard of Prager until this stunt. I wonder if that was his intent all along, to ger his name out there.
Does Prager know that reps don’t swear in with any book? does the American Family whatever know? I’ve seen this issue covered on the 24 hour news stations in the past few days. I’ve yet to see one with the real facts rather than continuning to inflame the anger of some Americans. But that’s there purpose anyway.
Also, does Ellison know that no one uses any book for swearing in?
December 3rd, 2006 at 7:45 am[…] Remember our story on the show yesterday about the Rev. Don Wildmon and his pogrom to make sure incomming Congressman Keith Ellison uses a Bible for his swearing in? Well he ain’t the only one with a plastic bag cinched too tightly around his head. Indeed right wing talk show host Dennis Prager too is making hay out of this non issue… but lo even the National Review kiboshes him (yes folks, the National Review): To begin with, the oath is a religious ritual, both in its origins and its use by the devout today. The oath invokes God as a witness to one’s promise, as a means of making the promise more weighty on the oathtaker’s conscience. […]
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:04 amMy Dog Tags said no religious Preference.
Again - not the same as it saying Atheist or Agnostic.
My mother is upset none of her children believe in god. I have admitedly never been “treated any different for itâ€
You contradicted yourself.
I suppose I could run around trying to find things people are doing against me. If they didn’t invite you, then they are treating you different because you are an athiest. If a group of them are on break and discussing it and you walk in the room. They all shut up and leave to somewhere else to discuss Christmas plans, is that wrong or are they being considerate of your beliefs? You enjoy the confrontation.
No - it excludes me that they made it a holiday celebration that I don’t celebrate. It’s exclusion either way.
It would be like your work place having a party that celebrates those who have their periods (almost as ridiculous as Christmas). You could go - but would you feel comfortable? If you say yes, I’ll know you are lying.
No, I didn’t. I realize that you are using Government funded computers, on a government funded internet line, with electricity being paid for by government funds, While being paid a government funded salary, to post on political websites demanding regulation and accountability of funds.
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 5:38 pm
I’m not at work. I’m using my own electricity, computer and time to post here.
Unlike you.
Does your boycot include not accepting payment for the 2 weeks off you get during Christmas?
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 5:51 pm
That would be funny if I got paid for the two weeks off at Christmas - but I don’t.
Teachers are only paid for the actual hours they work. It is then divided by 12 months so you get a scheduled pay check.
So, in essence, yes, my boycott does include the break at the end of the semester during which Christmas falls.
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:01 amSo….unbe is not receiving “vacation†pay for christmas. No teacher does.
Comment by Jules — December 2, 2006 @ 9:44 pm
I heard that they used to let you decide whether it was broken up over 12 months or 9. This year mine was stretched over 13 with all the other teachers new to this district - so that they could have a check in August to take out our insurance and dental benefits for that month…
And, you’ll love this - we only get two teachers’ workdays per year… two.
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:07 amI don’t know, Intention means alot to me. If someone wishes me a happy “Kwanza†and means it, I am honored they care enough about me to include me in their holiday celebrations.
But that wasn’t what happened in my case. The person who planned is KNOWS I’m not a Christian.
If someone had a family tradition that on August 4th they invite their friends over and wash their feet. I would be honored that I was considered that important to them (Not sure how many people I would let do it, but I wouldn’t be insulted by it).
You might if you had an aversion to feet and they KNEW it.
Can you not differentiate?
Then again this is just me, I do realize others feel different and that’s OK too (just don’t tell Unbelievable)
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 9:57 pm
:I
Agreed, this is Unbelievable’s first year at that school, so I’m sure they were trying to make her feel welcome and like one of the team.
You make a lot of assumptions - incorrect assumptions.
It’s everyone’s first year at this school - it’s the school’s first year.
She felt insulted and replied with.
I declined on the basis that it was a religious celebration… In a government institution - and that it didn’t respect me as someone who is admittedly “not religiousâ€â€¦
Exactly. They know I’m not religious and I have specifically said that I do not celebrate Christmas, and then the principal who is quite self-absorbed has one anyway.
There were a lot of other things she could have called it - but she CHOSE to use an event that excludes people who aren’t Christians. Sure I could show up and then when people say prayer or ask how I’ll celebrate - I’ll stand out like a negative sore thumb for not just going along because I refuse to assist them in oppressing those of us who aren’t one of them by assuming everyone is a Christian in this country.
I hope they got the hint and don’t invite her any more.
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 10:01 pm
I’m sure Michael Newdow would like that. It would give him someone actually impacted by the religion impositions on the public school system to help him fight his case.
The only way women got the right to vote was by refusing to be submissing. Same for blacks with civil rights. Gays are working on their rights by being vocal and refusing to marry people of the opposite sex to just get along. Atheists must do the same and be vocal that it is not okay to just assume we are Christains and expect us to go along.
You can whine about that, but it won’t change the fact that I won’t participate in religious events held by