ThinkFast: December 2, 2006
ThinkFast: December 2, 2006
“Opium production in Afghanistan, which provides more than 90 percent of the world’s heroin, broke all records in 2006.” A new World Bank report estimates that eradication will take decades.
“State Department and National Security Council officials said they do not expect any major policy shifts to emerge from either a White House review or the bipartisan panel” and the White House “has notified allies that it will not budge on certain aspects of Iraq policy.”
Stephen Cambone, the Pentagon’s top intelligence official, will resign at the end of the year. Cambone was part of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s original team, with few qualifications other than a “fierce loyalty to Donald Rumsfeld and an unshakeable right wing ideology.”
In an attempt to “get a few things done on the way out the door and show people that…we really can govern,” the lame-duck House next week will vote on a bill to open up the Gulf Coast to offshore drilling.
44 percent: Increase in Iraqi civilian deaths in November.
Iraq’s Interior Ministry has taken a lesson from the Bush administration and “is forming a special unit to monitor news coverage.” It also plans to “take legal action against journalists who don’t correct stories the ministry feels are incorrect.”
“The Supreme Court confronts whether race can be used in deciding where students to go to school on Monday, testing the willingness of President George W. Bush’s two newest court appointees to overturn programs to foster racial diversity.”
And finally: Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle (D), “a total Seinfeld fan,” was so “deflated” by Michael Richards’s (”Kramer”) recent racial tirade that he is boycotting everything Seinfeld. “I’m not going to watch a show with a guy who’s so openly racist. I’m not celebrating Festivus this year, I’m afraid, because of Michael Richards.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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“open up the Gulf Coast to offshore drilling.”
What, and decrease our dependance on Arab nations?
“overturn programs to foster racial diversity.â€
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:21 amRace should not be a determining factor where someone does or does not go to school. What ever happened to Merit instead of Quotas. Let me go to a school because I am Qualified, not because of my skin color.
Elizabeth de la Vega, Bringing Bush to Court
[snip]
In other words, in legal terms, there is probable cause to believe that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and Powell violated Title 18, United States Code, Section 371, which prohibits conspiracies to defraud the United States. Probable cause is the standard of proof required for a grand jury to return an indictment. Consequently, we have more than sufficient evidence to warrant indictment of the President and his advisers.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:28 am#1 robert,
I doubt opening the Gulf Coast to offshore drilling is going to help us at all in decreasing our dependence on oil and thus Arab nations. It would be years before there would be any production, and the amount of production by then would be a drop in the bucket that represents the amount of oil we use. The only way to end that dependence is to encourage development of alternate fuel technology, and punish corporations for not developing that technology rather than giving them more access to oil.
Also, i’ve come to the conclusion that Affirmative Action is wholely necessary and is mostly funtional. American society is very racist and sexist, and there needs to be a system in place to avoid that regression in the work place and education. Sure, we hear anecdotal stories of one person here and there that is white being left out because of the program, but in how many other cases is it a success? For every one of these instances there must be 100s if not 1000s of instances in which this system works. One just doesn’t hear about it because no one is going to complain when they are being treated properly by the sytem.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:31 amHey all — We were having some technical problems this morning with comments and believe that some disappeared…Our apologies for this. (Just want you all to know that it wasn’t deliberate!)
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:33 amWhy Bush Didn’t Use FISA
Once again I find myself in a position to say what everyone knows but few would feel comfortable saying. The reason that the President didn’t go to the FISA courts or inform more members of Congress about the interception of communications featuring al Qaeda members abroad and their contacts here in America was the concern that, with a Democrat party that puts its personal and ideological agenda ahead of America and Americans the chances of a leak that would undermine America’s safety was, well, just as sure as the fact that the New York Times did leak it to our enemies.
Remember, these “members of Congress” would include folks like Dick Durbin who, based on a supposed e-mail (which he would never show anyone) from a supposed FBI agent (unnamed, of course) preceded to attack American troops as being “like the Nazis” and Nancy Pelosi, the woman who gives standing ovations to lie-filled, anti-American propaganda movies like those of Michael Moore.
When Osama Bin Ladin is using Democrat party “talking points” to make al Qaeda’s points, the NY Times is leaking military secrets and the Democrats’ leadership is siding with America’s enemies, it’s a fine line between “consulting Congress” and leftist judges and seeing our secrets in the hands of the enemy.
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:36 amPoppies……
And what other cash crop or industry does Afghanistan have to drive its economy or any chance for a stable Government? NONE>
Eriadicate no! Tax and regulate: yes! Then look for other markets to get into. Unless the unemployment problem of Afghans is addressed, there will always be a willing mass for warlords and Taliban. Economic stability and security are the key. Then what ever Govt. that follows will be stable.
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:36 amI’m not celebrating Festivus this year, I’m afraid, because of Michael Richards.â€
but festivus was george’s family tradition… created “as an alternative holiday in response to the commercialization of Christmas.” (wiki)
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:38 amsilly silly people… back to the traditional commercial xmas for you, gov.
…
Hey all — We were having some technical problems this morning with comments and believe that some disappeared…
Comment by Amanda
thank you, Amanda. At first I thought I was having my first episode of the so called inevitible flashbacksfrom my college days!
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:38 amall kidding aside, with the idjit who keep posting (as well as copying and pastin’) pre-adolescent, vile remarks, I understand!
Good lord Doyle, why in bloody hell would you boycott Seinfeld? Why do people in this country overreact to the stupidest things?
We need to get our priorities straight.
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:39 am“Nancy Pelosi, the woman who gives standing ovations to lie-filled, anti-American propaganda movies like those of Michael Moore.”
Wow. Just, wow. Michael Moore doesn’t lie. Majorly biased, yes. Not a liar.
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:41 am“Opium production in Afghanistan, which provides more than 90 percent of the world’s heroin, broke all records in 2006.†A new World Bank report estimates that eradication will take decades.
Hey, they’re learning the USA values thanks to the Bush’s GOP: hard work, efficiency, maximize production…
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:42 amhey, spaniard! have you heard about your evil twin (davito) stirring up a rucus here on the view? funny…
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:45 amWisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle (D), “a total Seinfeld fan,†was so “deflated†by Michael Richards’s (â€Kramerâ€) recent racial tirade that he is boycotting everything Seinfeld. “I’m not going to watch a show with a guy who’s so openly racist. I’m not celebrating Festivus this year, I’m afraid, because of Michael Richards.â€
Wasn’t Seinfeld canceled? Don’t these political types run their blather by anyone else before going public?
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:47 amhey, spaniard! have you heard about your evil twin (davito) stirring up a rucus here on the view? funny…
Comment by katy
katy, I saw that clip, and I could tell he was a little lit up, but it didn’t seem like he was doing anything he wouldn’t have done sober. What do you think?
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:48 ami’m glad for those “technical problems”, amanda…
odd that a select few NON-TROLL posts went also… mine included…
will ask again, because i’m really curious:
robert – how do you feel about racial profiling? … for law enforcement purposes (”driving while black”), transportation security, etc…
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:49 am?
Wow. Just, wow. Michael Moore doesn’t lie. Majorly biased, yes. Not a liar.
Comment by jake3988
Nope. He just takes things out of context and twists them to meet his own agenda.
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:51 am44 percent: Increase in Iraqi civilian deaths in November.
But democracy is on the….march….
*crickets chirping*
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:52 amI heard nothing about DeVito latelly. What happened?
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:52 amIraq’s Interior Ministry has taken a lesson from the Bush administration and “is forming a special unit to monitor news coverage.†It also plans to “take legal action against journalists who don’t correct stories the ministry feels are incorrect.â€
Incurious George must be pleased…
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:53 am#16 Nope. He just takes things out of context and twists them to meet his own agenda.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 11:51 am
WMD are somewhat north, south, east and west of Bagdad. Yeah, right. In Russia, Israel, the USA, India, Pakistan…
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:56 amKaty, that depends on what you call profiling.
How many 80 year old white women blow up airplanes? None that I know of. But things like the 6 Imams taken off the plane last week are not profiling. They acted in a suspicious manner before and after boarding the plane.
Driving while black is not a crime at all. Now if you are in a predominantly white area, and there are reports of black men in Oldsmobile 442s playing “mail box baseball” in the area, would it not be reasonable to stop all black males in Oldsmobile 442s in the area and question them? Just like if you are in a predominantly black area and you have reports of white guys in a Ford pick-up truck burning crosses. You have a right to question them too. Some would call that racial profiling.
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:59 amNope. He just takes things out of context and twists them to meet his own agenda.
Comment by robert
The President of the United States, to beat the drums of war, took things out of context (WMD) and twists them (Imminent threat, mushroom clouds) to meet his own agenda?
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:00 pmHuh, whoda thunk?
meanwhile, over 2800 brave American soldiers dead, and possibly 600,000 innocent civilians dead.
Evil Spaniard, this is what I refer to:
A double-amputee Iraq-war vet is suing Michael Moore for $85 million, claiming the portly peacenik recycled an old interview and used it out of context to make him appear anti-war in “Fahrenheit 9/11.â€
Sgt. Peter Damon, 33, who strongly supports America’s invasion of Iraq, said he never agreed to be in the 2004 movie, which trashes President Bush.
In the 2003 interview, which he did at Walter Reed Army Hospital for NBC News, he discussed only a new painkiller the military was using on wounded vets. “They took the clip because it was a gut-wrenching scene,†Damon said yesterday. “They sandwiched it in. [Moore] was using me as ammunition.â€
Damon seems to “voice complaint about the war effort†in the movie, according to the lawsuit.
But what the father of two from Middleborough, Mass., was really talking about was the “excruciating†pain he felt after he lost his arms when a Black Hawk helicopter exploded in front of him. Damon wasn’t expressing any opinion about the war, the suit charges, but rather extolling the drug.
“I just want everybody to know what kind of a guy Michael Moore is, and what kind of film this is,†said Damon. He has appeared in two films attacking “Fahrenheit†-“Michael Moore Hates America†and “Fahrenhype 9/11.†…
Particularly outrageous to Damon is the fact that Moore never interviewed him or asked his permission to use the old clip.
But let me guess. Sgt damon doen’t matter.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:02 pmNope. He just takes things out of context and twists them to meet his own agenda.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 11:51 am
Yeah – Bush does that alot, dosen’t he!!
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:03 pm…But things like the 6 Imams taken off the plane last week are not profiling. They acted in a suspicious manner before and after boarding the plane.
Comment by robert
They were f*cking praying, Robert! Some Americans are ignorant bedwetters.
Talk about taking things out of context and twisting them to meet an agenda….
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:04 pmkaty, I saw that clip, and I could tell he was a little lit up, but it didn’t seem like he was doing anything he wouldn’t have done sober. What do you think?
Comment by Zooey — December 2, 2006 @ 11:48 am
honestly, i didn’t watch the whole thing cause it was so late when i linked and didn’t think it would be the whole segment…
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:05 pmyou’re correct… he was STILL lit… and admitted such… he’d been doing lemon liqueur shots with clooney the night before…
but, i didn’t see anything unusual… and he was on letterman last night – i don’t recall if it was even brought up – and he acted pretty much the same…
i was just ribbing spaniard though… he doesn’t come around much anymore… : (
robert – I suggest you look up what actual racial profiling is as it seems you haven’t a clue. For that matter – it seems you do not have a clue about much!
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:06 pmZooey, They were f*cking praying, Robert! Some Americans are ignorant bedwetters.
They were praying loudly before and after they boarded the flight. They moved from their assigned seats to the ones at the front, back, and exit aisles. They were not overweight but asked for seat belt extenders, then placed them on the cabin floor instead of using them. From the training I have had over 13 1/2 years, that constitutes suspicious behavior.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:10 pmZoo – katy – The media, as usual, is taking different clips and twisting them out of context. Kind of like robert here.
He was not that bad. He was making fun of Bush and it was pretty funny.
Anyway – who the hell cares. He is an actor on a talk show, not a judge on the bench, or a congessperson in session. Or for that matter – a president!!!
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:11 pmoops, sorry, spaniard… i missed your comment:
I heard nothing about DeVito latelly. What happened?
Comment by Evil Spaniard — December 2, 2006 @ 11:52 am
he was a guest on ‘the view’ morning tv show and was still feeling the effects from the heavy drinking of the night before and made some unflattering remarks about bushco and repugs… the wingers are pissed off, as you’d expect… boo hoo…
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:11 pmdear robert
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:11 pmI don’t recall that particular scene in F9/11
I’m just saying
Stop Total Information Awareness
Stop Democrats who guest on FOX
TIA and FOX are tools of communists.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:11 pmjules,
the example used was “driving while black”. that is not a crime. Wow, I think I said that already.
Arresting or harassing someone just because they are black IS a crime. Same applies to whites, latinos, asians, arabs, etc…
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:13 pm#31, it is the scene of the Soldier at Walter Reed getting wheeled into surgery. He is on a gurney and you can see he is rater beat up looking.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:15 pm#22, DRxJ: over 2800 brave American soldiers dead, and possibly 600,000 innocent civilians dead.
Let’s not forget that 2800 brave American soldiers died and possibly 600,000 innocent civilians died at the cost of approximately $400 BILLION!
More importantly, perhaps, let’s not forget those murdered and the tens of billions of dollars that were incurred on 9/11 which in truth serves as the basis of the 2800 brave American soldiers died and possibly 600,000 innocent civilians died at the cost of approximately $400 BILLION!
9/11 = Thousands of live ruined and destroyed + Tens of billions of dollars in damage
Iraq = Hundreds of thousands of live ruined and destroyed + Hundreds of billions of dollars in cost
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:15 pmJules, show me one thing I have taken out of context.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:16 pm#26 Katy, I’ll seek the clip in YouTube.
And I’m around now. I’m on illness leave, and then my Telecom company decided that my phone line was superfluous (to them), and then the TP spam filter decided that I was a virus… But I’m BACK :)
BTW, the last time Zooey, UnB, you and me chatted about alter egos, the mine was decidedly set to Antonio Banderas, by popular votation among women ;)
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:16 pmWhomever at Think Progress is deleting comments this morning,let me just say-YOU SUCK HARD.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:18 pmBetween your brainless deletions,and taking forever for something to post,this blogsite has turned into a piece of shit.
robert,
I still don’t remember that scene, or how it pertains, but I do have the F9/11 companion guide at home, and I’ll read it and get back to you
By the way, you have a problem with Michael Moore using facts to further his agenda?
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:20 pmrobert – the guy had to shop around for a lawyer for years before bringing up that bogus lawsuit… c’mon, man… you need to get real…
and “driving while black” is a term used for racial profiling…
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:20 pmand i see that you approve… that’s called racism… just sayin’…
.
They were f*cking praying, Robert! Some Americans are ignorant bedwetters.
Comment by Zooey — December 2, 2006 @ 12:04 pm
There are certain people on here who would say that’s suspicious activity. I mean our tax dollars pay for customs etc at an airport. Allowing prayer in there is insensitive to those who do not pray. Sort of like allowing government sponsored prayer.
:)
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:21 pmYOU SUCK HARD
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:25 pmComment by Bingo! — December 2, 2006 @ 12:18 pm
this particular troll (under many different names) is really…I mean really obsessed with the act of fellatio.
I’m about ready to send him a 50 spot so he can go downtown and relieve his stress!
unless his obsession is with the act of giving fellatio, then sorry, I can’t help him with that!
Jules, show me one thing I have taken out of context.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 12:16 pm
The case the SCOTUS has taken up deals with public school education. That is elementary, middle school and high school. NOT college entrance.
I am a high school teacher in what has historiclly been a lilly white school. We are a choice of school district but if you do not live in the area outlined for each school you need to provide your own transportation. I have many minority students who ride public transportation very early in the morning (classes begin at 7:30) because their parents want to provide them with a better education. It is very difficult for them.
You might ask why in the same district is there such a difference in education depending on where the school is located. Newer schools tend to be located in more affluent areas. Atmosphere tells a kid a lot. Parent involvement tends to be higher in affluent areas. Also the influx of funds from parents and business is higher in affluent areas. Bush may have created “no Child Left Behind,” but he failed to fund it!!!
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:26 pmBTW, the last time Zooey, UnB, you and me chatted about alter egos, the mine was decidedly set to Antonio Banderas, by popular votation among women ;)
Comment by Evil Spaniard
You’re right, Evil, I remember that. :)
Everyone: The default setting for Evil Spaniard’s alter ego is Antonio Banderas. Nice…
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:27 pmrobert,
I’ve seen the movie, I saw the articles about the lawsuit, and I’m a frequent visitor of the webpage of mister Moore. Check it yourself, you’ll find the info about the lawsuit, mister Moore doesn’t hides, and also a lot of additional info, as a lot of letters of servicemembers and relatives talking very disfavorably about Bush, his strategy, the whole mess in Iraq, the treatment of veterans, including the disabled ones, and all in context. You can read the full letters.
And, if you’ve seen the movie, you must know that all the facts have been double and triple checked for accuracy by a lot of people, including lawyers.
And all that you can say about the movie’s accuracy is that a veteran has said, two years later that his brief scene has been “put out of context”.
And the rest of the facts shown in the movie? None challenged by the GOP’s lawyers? After two years?
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:28 pmDrxJ, I have no problem with using facts. Facts are deluted when they are taken out of context, as that scene was.
Katy, how is it racist if it is a standard to be applied equally against all races. Judge each event individually, use training and this little thing called Probable Cause. Racist would be if you singled someone out ONLY based on race, but if you have other information that makes race only ONE variable it is not racial profiling.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:28 pmBetween your brainless deletions,and taking forever for something to post,this blogsite has turned into a piece of shit.
Comment by Bingo!
Bingo, Amanda responded to an email I sent this morning. She is trying to get rid the latest idiot troll, and some of our comments are getting caught up in it. It’s not personal.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:30 pm#44, Ok, but how did I take something out of context.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:30 pmthe mine was decidedly set to Antonio Banderas, by popular votation among women ;)
Comment by Evil Spaniard — December 2, 2006 @ 12:16 pm
well, that was MY idea, and it still is… i hear his voice when i read your comments… ’s’nice…
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:32 pmAllowing prayer in there is insensitive to those who do not pray. Sort of like allowing government sponsored prayer.
:)
Comment by Tundra
I will not be baited, Tundra. :)
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:33 pmrobert which twighlight zone do you live in if you have not heard, or witnessed, racial profiling?
The problem is the standard is NOT being applied evenly across races. Look at the case of the black man shot to death in NYC recently. Read all that has come about since this event happend.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:34 pmDRxJ:
You’re so damn smart,why don’t you name a few of those names.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:35 pmDRxJ:
You’re so damn smart
and I sincerly thank you!
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:38 pmRacist would be if you singled someone out ONLY based on race, but if you have other information that makes race only ONE variable it is not racial profiling.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 12:28 pm
In this case is a religion who includes a billion people, where a very little % is as fundamentalist as to do terrorist acts, as in every religion in the world. Remember Tim McVeigh, and I haven’t seen any new born treated like the imams. Remember Cat Stevens’ case (islamic new name is Yusuf Islam). He was stopped at an airport simply by NAME profiling (guess how many muslims in the world have a first name Yusuf or a second Islam?).
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:40 pmZooey:
If that’s the case,then let me apologize to Think Progress.
Now if only someone can instruct DRxJ to get a life.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:42 pmokay, I’m off
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:42 pmEnjoy the continuous troll bashing, especially the fellatio obsessed loser.
Enjoy the weekend
robert – you tried to link this case – which regards access to equal eduation – with Affirmative Action – which is a highly volitile subject with neocons.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:43 pm#56 Ooops, replace “new born” with “born again”. The former are adorable, the later… well, not…
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:44 pm#56 Ooops, replace “new born†with “born againâ€. The former are adorable, the later… well, not…
Comment by Evil Spaniard — December 2, 2006 @ 12:44 pm
OK – that was my first big laugh of the day!!
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:45 pmI will not be baited, Tundra. :)
Comment by Zooey — December 2, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
Now would I bait anyone, especially you :)
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:46 pmNow if only someone can instruct DRxJ to get a life.
Comment by Bingo!
The troll is using DRxJ’s name. :{
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:49 pmDRxJ:
DOH! That should be ’sincerily’.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:49 pmAs far as this troll, doesn’t TP get the IP address of posters when they submit? One should easily be able to disallow a flagged one from posting comments.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:49 pmTundra,
I think TP is going to have to move to commenter registration, sadly enough.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:51 pmDOH! That should be ’sincerily’.
Comment by Bingo!
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:52 pmActually, we’re both wrong. sincerely is the correct spelling
Good day, all!
Now would I bait anyone, especially you :)
Comment by Tundra
Um, yes! You are the master of it. :)
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:52 pmYeah but Tundra – what fun would we have then? We would pretty much just be agreeing that Bush, and anyone in or connected to his administration, is a lying, theiving, murdering son-of-a-bitch.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:53 pmGood day, all!
Comment by DRxJ
Bye, DRxJ. Have a great day. I know that wasn’t you posting that stuff.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:54 pmCambone was part of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s original team, with few qualifications other than a “fierce loyalty to Donald Rumsfeld and an unshakeable right wing ideology.â€
Few qualifications other than being a rabid authoritarian and a suck-up… That sounds like the requirements for EVERY job in the Administration from hell.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:54 pm#56 Ooops, replace “new born†with “born againâ€. The former are adorable, the later… well, not…
Comment by Evil Spaniard — December 2, 2006 @ 12:44 pm
If someone on here posted:
#56 Ooops, replace “new born†with “Islamistâ€. The former are adorable, the later… well, not…
You guys would be all over them for being insensitive, facists etc. Screams of racist would flood that person. Comments about how a small percentage of them cause problems and don’t judge them all. There are plenty of Born Again people who don’t fall into the catagories they are often placed in on here. But it’s a Liberal making comments about Christians so it’s OK I guess.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:54 pmTrolls are so stupid (is that redundant?). Why don’t they wait until someone leaves to steal their ID? Wouldn’t that make their “fun” last a little longer?
Ron White said it best – you can’t fix stupid!!!
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:57 pmgood to see you here, antonio/spaniard… so i hate to leave now,
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:57 pmbut i have to get some things done around here, take a break…
later all…
I think TP is going to have to move to commenter registration, sadly enough.
Comment by Zooey — December 2, 2006 @ 12:51 pm
It’s cleaner to track the IP (I’m sure they allready are, kind of foolish not to). Just write up a script to allow a Mod to plug in a message_ID and find where it came from. Another to allow them to black list it (and reverse if needed for group IP’s) and a check on the submit to check the blacklist.
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:58 pmYeah but Tundra – what fun would we have then? We would pretty much just be agreeing that Bush, and anyone in or connected to his administration, is a lying, theiving, murdering son-of-a-bitch.
Comment by Jules — December 2, 2006 @ 12:53 pm
True, would get boring for y’all
hehe
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:00 pmAnother to allow them to black list it (and reverse if needed for group IP’s) and a check on the submit to check the blacklist.
Comment by Tundra
However they do it, I wish they would just do it. That filthy troll has started in on Sharon, and it is f*cking pissing me off!
I’m getting out of here, because this is just making me sick.
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:02 pm#63. Zooey;
The troll used a lower case j in the moniker.
The real DRxJ attacked me.
That’s O.K..
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:07 pmI’ll wait,I’ll watch.
ThinkProgress, Would you please remove the name-jacked postings #43 and #55?They contain vile and inappropriate language, and allowing them to remain posted is grossly unfair to those whose names have been hijacked, as well as to the person whom those childish and odious meassages are addressed.
TP was kind and effective to remove some name-jacked postings falsely attributed to me last week. I hope you can do the same here.
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:11 pmCan we start talking about the new HIV incident rates as a result of this increase of poppy production in countries that do not have the means to ward off this with progressive action such as needle exchange?
These countries are not even a blip on the screen at the moment…they soon will be.
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:18 pmAndrew Sullivan at the Daily Dish has a timely little Utube cartoon called Freedom River that is worth watching.
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:31 pm#59,Gee, I though that AshenShard threw it Affirmative Action card? I just said race should be a non-issue in education.
#56, in the case of the Imams. Look at ALL the behavior leading up to them being taken off the plane. These are the same behaviors the military are tought to watch out for as indicators of something being wrong or about to happen.
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:52 pmThank’s for sticking up for me Zooey….You are a kind gentle person…I can take the junk these vile little boy’s dish out, they are just mean spirited, unsupervised, little skin head’s….Real men, well educated and supervised young adult’s would never put such crap in print and adults other than the reich winged bush bunch would not steal, lie or murder…..Twisted mind’s are a seperate sickness…Flush, spray and ignore….Blessings…Peace and Impeach
December 2nd, 2006 at 1:59 pmrobert what legal issue is brought in a case does nothing to the underlying legal argument. In the US it is a well settled constitutional right to an education. The “separate but equal” argument was struck down over 50 years ago. There is nothing equal about minority filled schools. The government will not fully fund public education. This administration will not do so as they want public schools to disintegrate to the point that they can push through their voucher system. In the interim it is the parents who are filling in where the government will not.
These are the facts that I live with every day in one of the largest school districts in Texas.
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:07 pm#89, Did I say all of MMs comments were wrong? No I did not. I did say that some of it was out of context.
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:12 pmSpudge, what do you wish to discuss?
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:31 pmJules, you know how you avoid minority filled schools? Don’t live in a minority filled area.
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:33 pmSpudge, Tell Sgt Damon that he was not taken out of context.
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:35 pmOK – I’m done. I have heard about as many neocon arguments as I can stand for now. That last one was so…stupid is the only word that comes to mind. When you have no valid point to counter with just throw out an idiotic statement and see if it sticks. So very Bushlike!!
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:44 pm#100, Actually it calls for an end to segregation . No one forces anyone to live where they don’t want to.
If you live in an area that is predominantly minorities , then guess what, the schools will be predominantly minority schools. If you do not like that, then move to a more diverse area. Pretty simple. Don’t pocket yourself into any area then cry about your situation. If you are unhappy about your situation then change it. Take responsibility for yourself.
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:58 pmSo, What’s wrong with opium?
December 2nd, 2006 at 3:21 pmSo, Spudge, what is it called when blacks, latinos asians, etc. pocket themselves in their little communities? That is self segregation too, is it not?
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:08 pmCambone? Stephen Cambone?
“Thursday, February 16, 2006
DoD Staffer’s Notes from 9/11 Obtained Under FOIA
On July 23, 2005, I submitted an electronic Freedom
of Information Act request to the Department of Defense
seeking DoD staffer Stephen Cambone’s notes from
meetings with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on
the afternoon of September 11, 2001. Cambone’s notes
were cited heavily in the 9/11 Commission Report’s
reconstruction of the day’s events. On February 10,
2006, I received a response from the DoD which
includes partially-redacted copies of Cambone’s notes.
The documents can be viewed as a photo set on Flickr.
The released notes document Donald Rumsfeld’s 2:40
PM instructions to General Myers to find the “[b]est
info fast . . . judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H. [Saddam Hussein] at same time – not only UBL [Usama Bin Laden]” (as discussed on p. 334-335 of the 9/11 Commission Report and in Bob Woodward’s Plan of Attack).
In addition, the documents confirm the contents of CBS News’ Sept. 4, 2002 report “Plans For Iraq Attack Began on 9/11,” which quoted Rumsfeld’s notes as stating: “Go massive . . . Sweep it all up. Things related and not.” These lines were not mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report or Woodward’s Plan of Attack, and to my knowledge, have not been independently confirmed by any other source. (..)
Finally, these documents unveil a previously undisclosed part of the 2:40 PM discussion. Several lines below the “judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H. at same time” line, Cambone’s notes from the conversation read: “Hard to get a good case.”
http://www.outragedmoderates.org/2006/02/dod-staffers-notes-from-911-obtained.html
Ho-hum.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:10 pm#103 – As Homer Simpson would put it…
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:26 pmMmmm, Opium……..
Sometimes the twelve year olds should be indentified and removed from the adult discussions. If it takes registration or IP address blocking, so be it.
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:30 pm“Opium production in Afghanistan, which provides more than 90 percent of the world’s heroin, broke all records in 2006.â€
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:55 pmHey, if you dont have oil, you have to give something back for liberation, dont you think?
If someone robs a gas station and is wearing blue jeans, then Robert or anyone else passing by wearing blue jeans, should be detained and stopped also, because they “could” be the culprit, right Robert?
Robert fits the exact “profile” of a terrorist based on the physical descriptions of people who comitted past acts of terrorism, therefore he should not be singled out and put on a no-fly flist and subject to search by any police officer who see him!
1. He has two arms like all past terrorists.
2. He weighs between 100 and 400 pounds like all past terrorists.
3. He has five fingers on each hand like all past terrorists.
4. And so on…
Physical characteristics do not predict who is or is not a terrorist or criminal no more than race, skin color, nationality, number of fingers, or anything else does.
The reason that people like Robert advocate “profiling”, is that the physical characters in a profile is always race, and those people ACTUALLY believe race is predictor in who will become a terrorist or criminal, when these are acts of individuals and not groups.
Many white males are child molesters, so when the day comes that police stop all white males with a child, and verify that the child has not been abducted and kipnapped, and their vechicle, home, and computer does not contain kiddie porn, we will no longer hear people like Robert advocating “profiling”!
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:11 pm#108 Juan, you mean, like blood?
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:23 pmJules, you know how you avoid minority filled schools? Don’t live in a minority filled area.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 2:33 pm
All but four of my students are white. Two are black and two are first generation Latinos. Most are lower middle class to average middle class. A few are poor.
I still experience the same lack of public funding that Jules experiences. And I work in a public charter school in Georgia.
I agree with her. It’s about intentionally letting teh system decay to pushthrough a religious agenda.
If the Dems we elected in November want to keep their jobs, they will fix the education problem immediately after they get us out of Iraq and reverse the tax cuts to the rich.
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:44 pmJules, you know how you avoid minority filled schools? Don’t live in a minority filled area.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 2:33 pm
It’s not that easy Robert, you also have to take into account there are many teachers that just won’t work inner city. Many choose to work with mostly white kids instead of helping to raise the quality of the education in minority areas. I believe if we could get some of those “good” teachers to leave the burbs, it would do alot to help turn the situation around.
(OK, I really had nothing but I had to bait Unbelievable. She loves it when I do this to her :)
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:57 pm#109, Again you misunderstand what I said. We will take your scenario and add that the person that robbed the gas was a tall, black male, wearing blue jeans and a red t-shirt. Is there a need to stop short white men in blue jeans and a black t-shirt?
Your discription of me fitting the profile of a “terrorist” that took over aircraft in the U.S. is incorrect as well. One item you missed was that they were also Arabic.
So, do you think with ALL of the given information of the Imams that were removed from the plane that it was a case of profiling or maybe just a little extra caution was used.
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:00 pm#108 Juan, you mean, like blood?
Comment by RUCerious
Uhhh, true :(
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:01 pm#113, I wanna Play, My children are too young to serve, but I have gone twice. Does that count?
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:04 pmUnbelievable, what religious agenda is being pushed through? I haven’t seen any.
(Tundra, stand by, rounds coming down range)
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:06 pm(OK, I really had nothing but I had to bait Unbelievable. She loves it when I do this to her :)
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 5:57 pm
How’s your love life there Tundra? Hmmm? :D
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:30 pmUnbelievable, what religious agenda is being pushed through? I haven’t seen any.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 6:06 pm
Well, covering your eyes and ears will do that Robert.
If you don’t see that, I have given you too much credit by calling you ignorant…
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:32 pm(Tundra, stand by, rounds coming down range)
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 6:06 pm
Shot Over, Shot Out hehe,
How’s your love life there Tundra? Hmmm? :D
Comment by unbelievable — December 2, 2006 @ 6:30 pm
I don’t call it Love anymore, hehe
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:37 pm#119, They don’t talk about God in school, they do, however say the Pledge of Allegiance. So where is the agenda, please enlighten me. I am seriously curious.
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:50 pmthe White House “has notified allies that it will not budge on certain aspects of Iraq policy.â€
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:02 pmLike changing anything at all. This looks great for pappy. Send in the senior division clowns for a dog and pony show that winds up in the garbage.
Robert, describe the illegal practice of realtors and ‘redlining’.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:04 pmSo where is the agenda, please enlighten me. I am seriously curious.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 6:50 pm
You don’t get it do you? They teach things like caring about other people. Being nice to others, which are clearly items that were not thought of before religion. Before religion people would kill their neighbor for the weeks kill. After they started to make them believe there was an afterlife it gave them a reason to be nice. Now is thinking of others something we really want to start promoting in our schools? I agree with Unbelievable it is certinally not.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:04 pmrobert – Intelligent design in science class and abstinence only in health class, I’d say both of those qualify.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:07 pm#123, weren’t we talking about profiling for reasons of law enforcement and terrorism?
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:09 pmIntelligent design in science class and abstinence only in health class, I’d say both of those qualify.
Darwinism too, for that matter. It presents one side of the issue and can not be proven conclusively. Also it infringes on the rights of those that are believers.
And why teach abstainance? Why would we want our children to abstain from behavior that can put their lives and health a risk? Why would we think that is the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancy? Why let the parents decide to teach the children about alternative methods?
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:15 pmIntelligent design in science class
It is a theory. Because we no longer believe the world is flat we shouldn’t tell kids that it was a theory widly accepted? As much as you may not want to believe people believe in it, there is a large group that does and I think my kids need to be offered that up as well.
and abstinence only in health class
Again, I think it needs to be offered. While I realize that many believe it doesn’t work, there are people that follow it. It certinally is a viable option to prevent STD’s or whatever they call them now. Besides teaching kids to put on a condom, they also need to know they have the option of not having sex.
It’s like teaching kids how to drive and not explaining that they don’t have to and can use the bus if they prefer.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:16 pmand abstinence only in health class
Originally the religous movement didn’t want any sex taught in school, but caved because the realists wanted to arm kids with knowledge. They want kids to have all the knowledge, not just the parts pushed by one side.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:41 pmI don’t call it Love anymore, hehe
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 6:37 pm
Gee, I’m shocked.
:D
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:41 pmSo where is the agenda, please enlighten me. I am seriously curious.
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 6:50 pm
If the Bush Regime destroys the public school system by under-funding it, over-populating classrooms, standardize testing it to death, and forcing juvenile delinquents to stay in the classroom no matter how many times they’ve been arrested – then private Christian school vouchers will be an easy pass.
Bush wants to privatize Social Security, and religiousfy governmental social programs – can you really think he doesn’t want to do the same with our school system?
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:45 pmNow is thinking of others something we really want to start promoting in our schools?
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 7:04 pm
Religion made people start being nice to one another? Are you serious? What part of the Inquisition, conquering the “Americas” and burning people at the stake for being ‘witches are you ignorant of?
Religion has done more to teach people to be intolerant, murderous, incestful, demeaning, and hateful than any other form of human creation.
What happened to you? You used to be rational…
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:49 pmDarwinism too, for that matter. It presents one side of the issue and can not be proven conclusively.
Darwinism? I think you meant Evolution – which is not only proven, but is a fact.
Also it infringes on the rights of those that are believers.
No it doesm’t. They are free to go to church to be brain washed.
And why teach abstainance? Why would we want our children to abstain from behavior that can put their lives and health a risk?
You should meet some teenagers. Preaching abstinence to them as the only means for dealing with tehir raging hormones is ineffective.
Why would we think that is the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancy?
Beats the hell out of me – because it isn’t.
Why let the parents decide to teach the children about alternative methods?
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
Because they don’t. The current generation of children isn’t being raised at all – because parents expect the school system to do their job for them. There are exceptions – but they are the minority.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:53 pmWhat happened to you? You used to be rational…
Comment by unbelievable — December 2, 2006 @ 7:49 pm
Oh I still am, but someone has to be devils advocate around here.
Religion made people start being nice to one another? Are you serious? What part of the Inquisition, conquering the “Americas†and burning people at the stake for being ‘witches are you ignorant of?
Yes that happened too, but at least it was organized destruction as opposed to one guy simply clubbing someone else. You need to see the positives as well :)
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:54 pmAs much as you may not want to believe people believe in it, there is a large group that does and I think my kids need to be offered that up as well.
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 7:16 pm
Then take them to church. Science class is not the place for speculation. It’s teh place for knowledge based on proven facts.
Evolution is not just a theory – it is a fact. Of science.
December 2nd, 2006 at 7:56 pmYou need to see the positives as well :)
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 7:54 pm
I don’t need to do anything except eat, sleep and pay taxes…
Well, speaking of needs, I am gonna go take care of the eating part.
Enjoy being obnoxious, I mean Devil’s Advocate… :D
Later.
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:00 pm#126 – to your comment
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:01 pmJules, you know how you avoid minority filled schools? Don’t live in a minority filled area.
Because they don’t. The current generation of children isn’t being raised at all
Because there is a group that doesn’t teach their kids, I lose my right to raise them as I see fit? It’s better if you decide what my kids are taught?
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:02 pmI echo Tundra in 139. Just because others are irresponable, don’t take away my rights
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:13 pmScience class is not the place for speculation. It’s teh place for knowledge based on proven facts.
Well it’s a fact that your odds of getting a disease or pregnant are greatly diminished if you don’t have sex vs condom use.
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:25 pmDarwinism too, for that matter. It presents one side of the issue and can not be proven conclusively.
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:40 pmComment by robert
Oh.My.God.
#141 Sure it is Tundra, but teaching abstinence only is not going to help in real situations. You know this.
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:47 pmRe#144 Robert
I see you “forgot” to address the point about child molestors and the fact that you fit the “profile”, so since their are white male child molesters free in america right now, you are saying the police have the right to stop and detain you because you fit the profile, or are you a HYPOCRITE?
White men have committed acts of terroism, or have you forgotten Timothey McVeigh, do you not match that “profile”?
White men have highjacked planes, so do you not match that “profile”?
You must also logically agree that whenever the police have only the information that a white male wearing dark clothes commited a crime, the police should stop and detain all white males wearing dark clothes, or are you a HYPOCRITE?
How long after the crime has been committed and for how wide an area should those detentions be kept up, one hour over one mile, or over 365 days and 5000 miles?
How come you advocates of “profiling” never answer these questions?
I would love to hear your answers!
December 2nd, 2006 at 8:57 pmTundra – fact that your odds of getting a disease or pregnant are greatly diminished if you don’t have sex vs condom use.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:16 pmQuite true, now explain that to my hormone crazed fourteen year old neice who is fully developed sexually, but not emotionally. My brother in law keeps track of her so close it’s impossible for her to find five minutes to get in trouble.
Now why on earth does he want her to know about condoms, contraception and how her body works>?
Oh.My.God.
Comment by Juan C — December 2, 2006 @ 8:40 pm
Yeah, dinosaur fossils cannot be proven to be over a couple of weeks old.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:18 pmTundra – fact that your odds of getting a disease or pregnant are greatly diminished if you don’t have sex vs condom use.
They are also kinda lower if you are a man.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:19 pm#141 Sure it is Tundra, but teaching abstinence only is not going to help in real situations. You know this.
Comment by JPark — December 2, 2006 @ 8:47 pm
To make sure I am on the same page it’s “Abstinence Only” not “Only teach Abstinence” right?
I am all for teaching the “Abstinence Only” in conjunction with other health measures such as condom use, etc.
I am against teaching only abstinence and nothing else.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:32 pmQuite true, now explain that to my hormone crazed fourteen year old neice who is fully developed sexually, but not emotionally.
Here is where the fundamental differences are. Not so sound too coarse (which I am at times), but she isn’t my problem. She is your Sister’s and the rest of your family. I think those of you who know her are much better equiped to know how she learns, what lessons she will take away, how she acts than I am.
With an issue this important I think they need to be armed with everything, if we are going to arm them with anything. Otherwise we need to completely remove sex education in public schools and leave it up to parents.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:39 pmThey are also kinda lower if you are a man.
Comment by JPark — December 2, 2006 @ 9:19 pm
Touche :)
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:46 pmOK, tundra, we’re on the same side. Teaching abstinence only is the problem…She is our lil darlin, and we take great care and pride in her.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:53 pmShe’s a very well mannered kid. In our state we do teach sex ed, and she’s doing great!
I am all for teaching the “Abstinence Only†in conjunction with other health measures such as condom use, etc…
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 9:32 pm
then it isn’t “abstinence only”… but good for you…
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:55 pmwhat you advocate is “comprehensive sex ed”
http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/sexeducation.htm
.
Tundra and all, one final note:
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:59 pmMuch of what our kids learn they learn from our behavior as parents and partners. Other stuff they learn from each other. Then the school gets a crack at teaching them stuff.
Comprehensive sex ed is a must for most American kids.
Darwinism too, for that matter. It presents one side of the issue and can not be proven conclusively.
Comment by robert
In science, a theory is a proposed description, explanation, or model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists “theory” and “fact” do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
That’s all I’m saying about that, Robert.
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:59 pmOtherwise we need to completely remove sex education in public schools and leave it up to parents.
Comment by Tundra
In a perfect world, Tundra, I would absolutely agree with you. But a lot of kids would be left out in the cold about sex ed if it were only up to the parents, unfortunately.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:02 pmMy brother in law keeps track of her so close it’s impossible for her to find five minutes to get in trouble.
Comment by RUCerious — December 2, 2006 @ 9:16 pm
voice of experience… that could be a recipe for disaster…
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:04 pmnothing like saying “you can’t” to get a kid to WANT to do and/or try something… too much hovering and she will find a way to sneak around…
best to give lots of love and assurance and education and TRUST to do the right thing – AND instill the confidence she needs to be able to come to her parents and TALK to them about WHATEVER, WHENEVER she needs to… this is probably the hardest part, but you’ve got to let your kid know that they can talk to you without judgement or negative repercussions.
…for what it’s worth…
#149, disprove, 100% factually, creationism.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:07 pmbest to give lots of love and assurance and education and TRUST to do the right thing – AND instill the confidence she needs to be able to come to her parents and TALK to them about WHATEVER, WHENEVER she needs to
amen
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:09 pmRobert,
You cannot prove a negative! You didn’t read the link AT ALL.
Done.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:15 pmWhat’s left hmmmm..
Oh Yeah Creationism.
The thought of a billion years ago a group of aliens towing a large rock to this point and throwing some mold on it that they engineered for it’s quick adaptation effects, sounds plausabile. For the purpose that if their planet was hosed they could live here, Then things took off from there.
It would still fall under intelligent design though. Wouldn’t go against evolution, but would the big bang theory.
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:17 pmThe drug war is the greatest national security threat that America faces today.
The Afghan opium crop could and should be bought at the grower level. The farmers in Afghanistan will make maybe $ 2.5-3 billion for their crop selling to gangsters and terrorists. We could easily buy it from the farmers at a competitive premium and divert it to the poorest countries in the world that are are under-served in pain medication today.
A European drug policy/human rights group, the Senlis Council, that had offices in Kabul, proposed this in the spring. In September the U.S. drug warriors had the Afghans kick Senlis Council out of the country.
But there is a lot more to the national security disaster caused by the war on drugs. From al Qaida’s silent jihad, (Sen. John Kerry spoke to this issue as the World Trade Center still smoldered in September 2001: “That’s part of their revenge on the world,” Kerry said. “Get as many people drugged out and screwed up as you can.”), to the Justice Department assertions that the heroin black markets promise to bring together the Afghan producers with the Colombian gangster who control U.S. distribution. As NYU Professor Barnett Rubin told the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee in September, “Our drug policy grants huge subsidies to our enemies”.
I have written extensively on the fact that the growth of stateless terrorist armies in the world has happened concurrently with the growth of the global black market for drugs. A black market that the U.N. estimates is worth $ 322 billion annually. $ 144 for the U.S. market which is why we can never hope to control our borders. the drug market is so lucrative that entire industries have grown up dedicated to subverting our best border security efforts. SEE: Afghanistan Opium Crop Sets Record Bush failure
December 2nd, 2006 at 10:29 pmRobert, the issue is not ‘disprove creationism’ but show one piece of evidence that supports it – or f*** off
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:19 amAre there any academic courses being taught in schools or colleges in the subject of “recent history” if not there should be one started somewhere so our kids can ACTIVELY and “in your face” history classes in schools so people ACTUALLY know who they are voting for exactly.
Evidently,the Republicans are the best we could come up with as ONE nation and as a whole and is quite disturbing.
I would be all for you vote for national elections and have a number and would be REQUIRED as a citizen to vote or face a serious govt. penal policy.
That would keep Washington alot “cleaner.”
At the time of the Argentine coup of 1976, Vice President Richard Cheney was President Gerald Ford’s White House Chief of Staff, having served earlier in the Nixon administration and on the transition team that arranged the transfer of power after the Watergate crisis. The man he succeeded in that post was Donald Rumsfeld, who occupied the same position he does today—defense secretary—and oversaw the coordination of military aid to the junta in Argentina and to other Latin American regimes that were using their armies to brutalize their own people.
Together with Kissinger, Cheney and Rumsfeld were part of the core team that plotted US foreign policy during that period.
Kissinger is today sought by courts in Argentina, Chile, Spain, France and several other countries to answer questions about his role in plotting military coups that toppled Latin American governments and in aiding military regimes that carried out massive and criminal repression. He cannot travel abroad without first receiving guarantees that he will not be extradited.
There are ample grounds to place not only the former secretary of state on trial for crimes against humanity, but those who are principal policymakers in the current administration as well.
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:28 am#151 Katy – Agreed. They’ve filled up her plate with homework, after school sports, match league volleyball, and still she manages to use a couple thousand hours a month on her cell. But all seriousness, she’s got a level head on her shoulders. She hangs out with her cousin who’s a year older, that’s a little scary, but her cousin is also a smart young lady.
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:34 amOne good thing is that the extended family has several babies that these kids are around a lot. They see first hand how much effort it is to take care of a young one.
Thanks for the advice!
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 10:07 pm
First, there must be an agreed upon definition of “creationism.” This is from Widipedia:
And, for sake of argument, a rival definition from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
However, for the purposes of this discussion, it is enough to note that both definitions ultimately hinge upon accepting the existence of “God.”
In short, to disprove, factually, “creationism,” all one need do is disprove, factually, “God.” Since there is no factual basis for the belief in “God,” “God” cannot be proven to exist. Since “God” cannot be proven to exist, “creationism” has no factual foundation. Factually, “Creationism” is disproved.
One may believe in “Creationism” and “God” but such belief is without any factual support in this realm. Indeed, the foundations of belief which support “Creationism” would also support the contention that the Universe was created a second ago, and we were all created with memories of an existence prior to a second ago, including my memory of having written the first sentence of this paragraph. A “Creationist” would have to conceed that there is no way to disprove any contention regarding when creation occured. Each contention is just as valid as any other, because they are all based on a belief in the unprovable.
Now, what was your point in asking someone to disprove “Creationism?”
December 3rd, 2006 at 3:44 amcapable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation
Zooey, can you prove through empirical observation, that God does not exist. That is the key.
I am not one of those that think the earth is only 6000 years old. I am a little smarter than that.
December 3rd, 2006 at 8:27 amZooey, can you prove through empirical observation, that God does not exist. That is the key.
Comment by robert
Every 3 seconds a human being dies of hunger and deseases. There goes your proof.
December 3rd, 2006 at 9:33 amBecause there is a group that doesn’t teach their kids, I lose my right to raise them as I see fit? It’s better if you decide what my kids are taught?
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 8:02 pm
Not what I said, but the more you blather, the more I begin to think so… To save them from their ignorant parents. Because if you guys aren’t teaching them anything and you expect us to raise them, then by apathy you have given us the prerogative to teach them (though it is what the school board chooses, not individual teachers – and Evolution IS a DOE approved subject).
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:05 amJust because others are irresponable, don’t take away my rights
Comment by robert — December 2, 2006 @ 8:13 pm
No one is doing that. You have the right to sign the “I do not want my child to participate” opt-out forms for the controversial stuff like sex-ed – and make your kid an ignorant person nearly guaranteed to get an STD or unwanted pregnancy (because education actually prevents those things – not encourages them).
Or, if you want to be 100% in control of what they are exposed to (control freak always do), then don’t send them to school. Educated them from your limited knowledge at the dining room table for 6 hours every day and ensure they will be socially retarded and as limited as you are. Most people want better for their kids than that – which is why we have the public school system to begin with.
You can’t have it both ways.
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:13 amOtherwise we need to completely remove sex education in public schools and leave it up to parents.
Comment by Tundra — December 2, 2006 @ 9:39 pm
Again with the absolutes!
So what happens to the kids without parenst or bad parents? They get nothing?
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:22 amZooey, can you prove through empirical observation, that God does not exist. That is the key.
Robert – can you prove that the flying spaghetti monster does not exist? How about invisible unicorns that talk to my 6 year old niece? Prove there are no aliens on Mars.
Can’t? Why is that?
As Zoo said – you can’t prove or disprove a negative. The burden of proving existence is upon the one who claims it exists.
But, for me, the fact that there are children who are starved, neglected, molested and dying from cancer is enough proof that there is no Christian god.
The fact that with creation as the premise, the creator of the universe must have been created – otherwise if a creator can just exist – so too can the universe. And as Occum’s Razor states – that which is the simplest explanation is usually the most likely. Therefore Creationism is too complicated to be plausible.
I am not one of those that think the earth is only 6000 years old. I am a little smarter than that.
Comment by robert — December 3, 2006 @ 8:27 am
Just a little? Then how old do you ‘believe’ it is?
Anything other than about 4.5 billion years old is speculation (because we have scientific evidence that indicates it is about that old).
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:35 amUnbelievable, you do misunderstand me. That happens when I deliberately take the other side.
I am all for teaching BOTH theories of intelligent design AND Evolution, but not just one or the other. I am all for teaching Abstinence AND contraception, but not just one or the other. I do live in the real world and believe in the power of knowledge. But I do not believe in instructing something in the public school system that does not serve ALL parties involved. Things like Sex-Ed should not be a REQUIREMENT, but an ELECTIVE, (like you said, I should be able to opt out). But you can not tell me from a reasonable standpoint that Abstinence is not the best way to avoid unwanted pregnancy and STDs. There are other methods, but there is only one way that is 100%.
As far as Evolution, until you can prove CONCLUSIVELY that we are the produce of some “Cosmic Accident”; it remains a theory, just like intelligent design. Neither can be 100% proven or disproven. Evidence can point stronger to one or the other, but that is not conclusive proof. Therefore they BOTH remain viable theories. I do not advocate teaching ONLY intelligent design or ONLY evolution, but both. Present all the information and let them draw their own conclusion. Anything short of that is indoctrination.
You may think me ignorant, but I believe that educating children about all facets of an issue is the MOST responsible way, but at no time should the “State”, in this case schools, over ride the wishes of the Parent.
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:42 amRobert,
See Briseadh na Faire at #160, it’s as close as I could ever come to disproving your god — although that’s not what I’m here to do. I have no problem with your belief in your god. It’s actually none of my business.
What I do have a problem with is this statement: You may think me ignorant, but I believe that educating children about all facets of an issue is the MOST responsible way, but at no time should the “Stateâ€, in this case schools, over ride the wishes of the Parent.
Exactly how much money are you prepared to pay in taxes? So the “State” is supposed to teach every single facet of “an issue.” Will you allow the schools to decide the “issues,” since they are teaching your child? Is the “State” supposed to interview each and every Parent in order to establish their “wishes?”
Why don’t you just let the schools teach what they are able to teach in the 12 years they have your children, and wherever you think your children need more information — teach them yourself?
You still haven’t read — or comprehended — the link I provided to scientific theory.
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:14 amThere’s a fallacy in your basic assumption robert. Intelligent design is not and cannot be a theory. It is rooted in the belief of a supreme being. It is no more valid than any of the other creation myths from ancient history.
Why do you ask someone to disprove God? Can you not prove God? If you cannot prove your God to me through factual empirical evidence, then your God does not exist. Your God is a figment of your imagination. You are insanely deluded.
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:19 amZooey, I read your link, now prove to me conclusivly that I am a decendant of an amoeba.
From what you say, you would only have the schools teach what you believe and those of us that believe otherwise are “out in the cold”.
No, the school is not supposed to interview each parent, that is the purpose of the school board meetings, parent teacher conferences, etc..
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:26 amComment by robert — December 3, 2006 @ 10:42 am
Ok, robert. Pick an issue. Creation? Ok. Now teach children every creation myth from every culture. And every sub culture. And every fringe society. There are 390 million websites about “creation” on Google. Teach them all. And give them tests on what has been taught, to make sure they are all proficient in their knowledge of “creation.” The instructional day in schools is 6 1/2 hours (390 minutes) and there are 280 instructional days in a school year. So if you taught 1 website per minute, it would take you 3,571.43 school years to teach all facets of that one subject.
Oh, and parents can always opt their children out of learning the State adopted curriculum. Is that what happened to you?
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:35 amComment by robert — December 3, 2006 @ 11:26 am
prove to me conclusively that you exist independent of my own thoughts.
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:38 amRobert,
Prove to me that you are not being incredibly dense this morning. Oh that’s right, you can’t prove a negative. Silly me.
You say you read the link, and then you demand to be proven a non-descendant of an amoeba, which is completely asinine.
I’m not in the mood for it. Maybe someone else is.
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:39 amprove to me conclusively that you exist independent of my own thoughts.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Ok, that gave me a laugh on a cranky morning. :)
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 amComment by unbelievable — December 3, 2006 @ 10:05 am
No, you feel kids should only learn what you think they need to know or what you believe in. Personally I want my kids to learn as much as possible. Being a science teacher (At one time) I’m sure you can go back to things that were fact when I went to school and say, “yeah that was wrong”.
I want my kids to learn about the ideals behind all of it so they can make an informed choice. I don’t want my kids to be a little “me” like you advocate all of them being a little “you”. If belief in a god helps them to cope with things and makes life easier, that’s their choice. Besides unlike you, I know it is possible I am wrong and we are missing a piece of the puzzle that will change it all tomorrow.
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:45 amI am all for teaching BOTH theories of intelligent design AND Evolution, but not just one or the other.
Fine, they go to Science class in school and are taught Evolution. And then you take them to church on Sundays so they can learn ‘intelligent’ deisgn (it’s not intelligent by the way… I haven’t forgotten you couldn’t explain the intelligence in the human appendix either).
The classroom is no place for conjecture – which your hypothesis is. The Science that is taught is based on provable facts. If you want people to be offered an alternative – it should only be one that is provable, and as BnF so eloquently explained, there is no proof of your god.
Check out this site: http://www.venganza.org
It should explain our argument from a neutral point of view.
Things like Sex-Ed should not be a REQUIREMENT, but an ELECTIVE, (like you said, I should be able to opt out).
Again, as I asked Tundra – what happens to the kids who don’t have active parents what would not be educated? I disagree with you. I didn’t misunderstand.
But you can not tell me from a reasonable standpoint that Abstinence is not the best way to avoid unwanted pregnancy and STDs. There are other methods, but there is only one way that is 100%.
I can tell you that abstinence is not realistic. I spend my days with teenagers. They are not in full control of their hormones or bodies. Hell, most grown adults aren’t either and their brains are fully developed.
I just think you’re being too idealistic to the detriment of the kids. That we should address the reality that they have sex with knowledge. Knowledge is power.
As far as Evolution, until you can prove CONCLUSIVELY that we are the produce of some “Cosmic Accidentâ€; it remains a theory, just like intelligent design.
Evolution does not state that we are a cosmic accident. It describes the natural processes by which we exist. And it has been conclusively proven.
You really should learn what it is before you criticize it.
Therefore they BOTH remain viable theories. I do not advocate teaching ONLY intelligent design or ONLY evolution, but both. Present all the information and let them draw their own conclusion. Anything short of that is indoctrination.
You’re being emotional now Robert. You want your side presented so badly that you’re trying to say that evolution isn’t a fact to some how diminish it’s importance. You can have this viewpoint, but it makes you lose credibility to people who have studied both and want ID no where near Science – which would give people thefalse sense that it is a science when it is NOT. It’s conjecture based not on facts and evidence, but emotion, legacy, and faith.
You may think me ignorant, but I believe that educating children about all facets of an issue is the MOST responsible way, but at no time should the “Stateâ€, in this case schools, over ride the wishes of the Parent.
Comment by robert — December 3, 2006 @ 10:42 am
Robert, as I said, then home school your kids. Because if you send them to public school, you are accepting the fact that we teach them facts, not conjecture.
December 3rd, 2006 at 11:55 amI’m not in the mood for it. Maybe someone else is.
Comment by Zooey — December 3, 2006 @ 11:39 am
Nope… not really. I just feel it’s dangerous to let him go unanswered. Otherwise it looks like we accept his bullshit.
It’s like I told one of my students who was telling me about how incredibly over-protective his parents are even though he’s 18 – “It’s fear and you can’t reason with it. It’s not rational.”
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:03 pmNo, you feel kids should only learn what you think they need to know or what you believe in.
Oh, thanks Tundra for telling me what I think. I forgot I wasn’t capable of doing it myself… Sheesh.
No. I think they should be taught practical and useful information instead of a lot of useless crap. Ask them – they wish that’s what they were being taught, and it’s EXACTLY why they aren’t paying attention.
Personally I want my kids to learn as much as possible. Being a science teacher (At one time) I’m sure you can go back to things that were fact when I went to school and say, “yeah that was wrongâ€.
In science it often happens that scientists say, ‘You know that’s a really good argument; my position is mistaken,’ and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn’t happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.”
- Astronomer Carl Sagan – 1987
See, here’s the thing Tundra. And I’ll use a Biblical quote to keep you engaged – you can give a man a fish and he east for a day or youcan teach him to fish and he eats for a life time.
I wanna teach them how ‘to fish’. Schools aren’t doing that.
I want my kids to learn about the ideals behind all of it so they can make an informed choice.
And no one is stopping you from doing that. You just can’t expect the school system to teach them EVERYTHING you aren’t or can’t. As BnF pointed out, there aren’t enough years in their lives…
I don’t want my kids to be a little “me†like you advocate all of them being a little “youâ€.
Strawman.
If belief in a god helps them to cope with things and makes life easier, that’s their choice. Besides unlike you, I know it is possible I am wrong and we are missing a piece of the puzzle that will change it all tomorrow.
Comment by Tundra — December 3, 2006 @ 11:45 am
Again, whatever would I do without you telling me how I think.
You’re not very good at it so stop.
Willingness to revise one’s views in a scientific and progressive trait. It’s why I and people like me evolved away from organized religion.
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:11 pmMy definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular.
Adlai E. Stevenson Jr. (1900 – 1965), Speech in Detroit, 7 Oct. 1952
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:12 pm#151 Katy – Agreed. They’ve filled up her plate with homework, after school sports, match league volleyball…
there is such a thing as burnout, you know… she’s older, but i worry about TOO much planning for kids… it’s their job to be a kid…
But all seriousness, she’s got a level head on her shoulders. She hangs out with her cousin who’s a year older, that’s a little scary, but her cousin is also a smart young lady.
it would only be scary if her cousin is a bad influence… however – personal anecdote here: my son was friends with an angry-weird type, and i expressed my worries, and he replied, “maybe i am a GOOD influence for him”… that shut me up… another example of HELPING kids find the way…
One good thing is that the extended family has several babies that these kids are around a lot. They see first hand how much effort it is to take care of a young one.
lots of babies in my family also, and my daughter just swoons and croons… it used to worry me… but she has proven that she’s aware of how important it is to be mature and secure in herself…
Thanks for the advice!
Comment by RUCerious — December 3, 2006 @ 12:34 am
you’re quite welcome!
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:19 pm.
katy,
Good mama.
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:22 pmthank you, zooey…
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:28 pmtakes one to know one!
“Opium production in Afghanistan, which provides more than 90 percent of the world’s heroin, broke all records in 2006.†A new World Bank report estimates that eradication will take decades.
At least the blooms are very pretty. And methodone clinics will do really well.
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:40 pmStephen Cambone, the Pentagon’s top intelligence official, will resign at the end of the year. Cambone was part of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s original team, with few qualifications other than a “fierce loyalty to Donald Rumsfeld and an unshakeable right wing ideology.â€
Follow the Rummy.
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:42 pmAt least the Afghanis will greet us with flowers…
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:42 pmthe opium… i heard a certain radio personality express this much better than i could… (i decided it best not to print an actual name)…
December 3rd, 2006 at 1:03 pmbut, evidently there is some evidence that the south american cocaine helped finance the iran-contra deal… these days the bush crime family are counting on the heroin trade…
organized chaos… just like organized crime…
.
prove to me conclusivly that I am a decendant of an amoeba.
Comment by robert — December 3, 2006 @ 11:26 am
Sorry son, I don’t think you’ve evolved that far yet.
December 3rd, 2006 at 2:05 pmKaty look up Gary Webb, an LA investigative reporter’s stories about Ian-Contra, Manuel Noriega and crack cocaine. Where there’s a criminal scandal, there’s a Bush.
December 3rd, 2006 at 2:15 pmZooey, Unbelievable, and BnF,
One thing we agree on is that it is my responsibility as a parent to teach my kids what I want them to know about religion. I in no way endorse theology in a public school. But when evolution is taught in school and a child brings up the “what abouts” when it conflicts with their religious teaching, you can not tell them that that is wrong, just that it is unproven. Myself, I say that “I don’t know”, because that is an honest answer. I can look around and see all the scientific explanations for most things that happen, but not all. There are some that just can not be explained way with data and charts.
I know that using religion as an argument is ALWAYS a losing position as it can not be proven conclusively, that is why it is called faith. Personally, I do not care for the “organized” church because it does not favor questioning and is too full of hypocrisy and absolutism.
You are also right that sometimes in science new data comes to light that changes the known facts. Remember that at one time it was a fact that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the moon.
Somewhere there is a big piece of the puzzle missing either on the side of science or religion.
December 3rd, 2006 at 3:32 pmComment by TerrytheTurtle — December 3, 2006 @ 2:15 pm
thanks terry… but i’ve heard enough about it… others will learn from your information…
December 3rd, 2006 at 4:50 pmit will be interesting to learn of this latest “connection”…
I know that using religion as an argument is ALWAYS a losing position as it can not be proven conclusively, that is why it is called faith.
Comment by robert
Oh no, robert. You are confusing two BIG DIFFERENT things: religion and faith. Im an atheist but I have a lot of faith…well, sometimes.
December 3rd, 2006 at 6:53 pmThere are some that just can not be explained way with data and charts.
Such as? Be specific?
And just because Science doesn’t currently have an answer, we should turn to fairytales and unproven nonsense for the answer? No.
When I taught Science last year, I told them that they should talk to a religious person or their parents about the conflicts.
Personally, I do not care for the “organized†church because it does not favor questioning and is too full of hypocrisy and absolutism.
Yes it is. I’m beginning to understand why you are here…
You are also right that sometimes in science new data comes to light that changes the known facts. Remember that at one time it was a fact that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the moon.
Fact? Not exactly… A fact is something that is true regardless of public opinion.
Somewhere there is a big piece of the puzzle missing either on the side of science or religion.
Comment by robert — December 3, 2006 @ 3:32 pm
Religion. How am I so certain it is deficient? Because it never contains any reasonable answers to begin with – therefore, as I stated above, it’s just a matter of Science discovering the missing pieces – if we are capable as infinisimal beings in a vast universe. Something might just not be possible for us to know. But it doesn’t mean it’s magic…
December 3rd, 2006 at 8:27 pmrobert, tundra, et al – a must read:
Kansas Outlaws Practice Of Evolution
November 28, 2006 | Issue 42•48
TOPEKA, KS—In response to a Nov. 7 referendum, Kansas lawmakers passed emergency legislation outlawing evolution, the highly controversial process responsible for the development and diversity of species and the continued survival of all life.
“From now on, the streets, forests, plains, and rivers of Kansas will be safe from the godless practice of evolution, and species will be able to procreate without deviating from God’s intended design,” said Bob Bethell, a member of the state House of Representatives. “This is about protecting the integrity of all creation.”
The sweeping new law prohibits all living beings within state borders from being born with random genetic mutations that could make them better suited to evade predators, secure a mate, or, adapt to a changing environment…
…
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55807
smile!
December 4th, 2006 at 12:17 am“Opium production in Afghanistan, which provides more than 90 percent of the world’s heroin, broke all records in 2006.†A new World Bank report estimates that eradication will take decades.
A failed “war on terror” brings us back full circle to a failed “war on drugs.”
The Bush Administration’s “Drugs = Terrorism†Fraud
December 4th, 2006 at 12:26 am