Klein: Saying We Need A Timetable For Iraq ‘May Well Be True, But It’s Wrong To Say It’
Klein: Saying We Need A Timetable For Iraq ‘May Well Be True, But It’s Wrong To Say It’
On the Chris Matthews Show yesterday, Time magazine senior writer Joe Klein said of Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-IL) support for setting a timetable for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq: “That may well be true, but it’s wrong to say it.” Watch it:
Obama has argued that the Bush administration should begin redeploying U.S. troops out of Iraq in the next four to six months. That is the same position articulated by incoming Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-MI). Last June, the Levin amendment proposed the withdrawal of U.S. forces, earning strong support. Levin’s new amendment is expected to also gain strong support from the new majority.
Voters favor setting a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq by a 54-39 percent margin. Klein himself, after first arguing that it was not “responsible,” has embraced the call for withdrawal from Iraq. And yet he wants us to believe that a position that is right, supported by a majority of Americans, and favored by the new majority in Congress should not be uttered in public.
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Would it also be wrong to say, write it on a napkin>?
December 4th, 2006 at 10:57 amMoron.
I think this pretty much sums up the midset of conservatives today. They believe that it is wrong to speak the truth and accept facts if they make your side look bad, or if those things get in the way with your ideological/nationalist agenda.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:03 am“That may well be true, but it’s wrong to say it.â€
Just my opinion from observing the media closely for the last 6 years but…
We need media people who aren’t afraid to say what’s true you freakin moron! That’s how we got in this mess! How the hell did this guy get to be senior writer at Time? I wouldn’t give a coward like him a column in my free penny-shopper!
December 4th, 2006 at 11:07 amBolton is stepping down as UN ambassador!
Let’s cross our fingers and hope the admin doesn’t try to replace him with another wacko.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:10 am“That may well be true, but it’s wrong to say it.â€
Yeah because we all know the way to get things done is to keep your mouth shut about it and never mention that they need doing don’t we? /sarcasm
December 4th, 2006 at 11:10 amIn a just world, Joe Klein would be sorting light and brown bottles for change, not appearing on national news programs.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:12 am“That may well be true, but it’s wrong to say it.â€
Yes, that’s correct. It’s never a good idea to tell the truth. People who work in the mainstream media in Washington understand that.
Please continue to help keep the country misinformed, Mr. Klein. You’re doing the Lord’s work.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:12 amJoe Klein was born a certified idiot, so who cares what he thinks or spews!
December 4th, 2006 at 11:14 am“That may well be true, but it’s wrong to say it.â€
Does that mean that Klein won’t be writing any more pieces for Time? Or that everything he does write will be untrue? This reality-based living gets hard sometimes.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:15 amIt’s true that Joe Klein is a wishy-washy douchebag, but it’s probably wrong to say it. ;)
December 4th, 2006 at 11:15 amKlein and Matthews are two of a kind. They’ll be the last ones to admit that the administration has screwed something up, but then they’ll try to convince everyone that they were leading the charge. Matthews has now re-invented himself as an early opponent of the war in Iraq.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:17 amMaybe it would be okay if we said it in Pig Latin or Ubby-Dubby language.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:21 amI didn’t realize that Joe Klein was an expert on anything besides talking out of his ass. Which is a pretty amazing anatomical feat, but doesn’t really qualify you to speak with authority on international security issues.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:31 amf.u.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:32 amEway eednay a imtayabletay orfay rakIay.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:34 amI’ve been reading TIME for about a year and wondered who this idiot, Joe Klein, was. Now I know.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:35 amIt may be right to have Joe Klein on your television show, but it’s wrong to let him say anything.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:36 am“Let’s cross our fingers and hope the admin doesn’t try to replace him with another wacko.”
I hear Rummy is looking for a job….
December 4th, 2006 at 11:55 amKlein is a moron and it IS ok to say it.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:57 amJoe Klein said of Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-IL) support for setting a timetable for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq: “That may well be true, but it’s wrong to say it.â€
If that isn’t a scary statement coming from a man in charge of a widely distributed and followed news magazine I don’t know what is.
Mr. Klein has got to find that ticket stub he lost for the Ball Check Room.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:57 amWhy yes, it would be much better to sneak all our troops out in the middle of the night when no one was looking, catching everyone unprepared! We should withdraw, but talking about it would only allow the Iraqis to make plans to cope with it! Who’d want that?
If you’re going to withdraw the troops, you’ll need a timetable for doing it, either now or later. Wrong to say it??? You’d think Klein would occassionally say something that wasn’t absurd, just by accident, but no.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:00 pmThe problem is how they’re training the Iraqi troops. The redeployment asssumes Iraqi troops are trained enough to take over, but that couldn’t be further from the truth.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:02 pmEway eednay a imtayabletay orfay rakIay.
Comment by RUCerious
Put that in letter form and send it to the White House. Don’t forget the ampstay.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:02 pmThe problem is how they’re training the Iraqi troops. The redeployment asssumes Iraqi troops are trained enough to take over, but that couldn’t be further from the truth.
I fully agree, but supposedly everyone wants us out NOW, so why not make them happy and leave right now, and let them fend for themselves, and let the rest of the world that says we should leave immediately, see how big of a mistake that would be.
we need to stay till the job is done, we dont need a time table, we need to make more progress faster, but stay till the job is done, otherwise we are opening the doors for huge problems in iraq. because as we have seen throughout history, it is the strong, not the right (correct) that take over, whether it be for the better or the worse.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:08 pm“Let’s cross our fingers and hope the admin doesn’t try to replace him with another wacko.†I hear Rummy is looking for a job…. Comment by Mysticdog
No, NO, NOOO!!! Don’t give them any ideas!!
Put that in letter form and send it to the White House. Don’t forget the ampstay. Comment by Zooey
And to every member of Congress. And to all the talk show hosts.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:09 pmI sometime wonder if this guy ever think before he says or write things. This is one pathetic human beigh
December 4th, 2006 at 12:16 pmdid someone say moustache ride?
Comment by john bolton
Hi j,
Um, mustache ride….er, what have you heard?
December 4th, 2006 at 12:17 pmSaying Joe Klein is a moronic knuckledragger may well be true, and really, is it so wrong to say it?
December 4th, 2006 at 12:21 pmJoe Klein says a lot of things as ‘fact’ which the only fact is that they are coming from Joe’s wankerific brain.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:29 pmwow that’s stupid. was he drunk? i say ridiculous things when i’m drunk. of course, nobody’s life is in the balance during my bourbon-fueled quests to impress people with ironic ‘battle of the network stars’ references.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:30 pmJoe Klein may well be an idiotic, fascist retard, but I suppose it would be wrong to say that, wouldn’t it.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:37 pmI think it’s way, way cool that we have influential writers who think really hard about what sort of truthful information needs to be kept from the American public.
Man, I bet the founding fathers would be so proud that a mere 227 after independence the public commentators still think it’s their job to kiss up to the powerful and to help cloak the stink of their lies in sweeter perfumes.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:38 pm“That may well be true, but it’s wrong to say it.â€
December 4th, 2006 at 12:54 pmClassic enabler denial tactics.
You have to love Washington DC elitism, parsing words over warfare, while our troops are caught in the middle of a sectarian, civil war.. People like Klein believe there is a “Third Way.” Not in this case, either send more troops or leave.
December 4th, 2006 at 12:56 pmFor Obama to advocate for troop withdrawal in four to six months is hardly cause for celebration. Those troops are getting blown up and burned and brain damaged and becoming psychologically scarred for absolutely no legitimate reason. Having those troops remain in Iraq for more than one day makes no sense at all. Bring them home- safely- as quickly as possible.
December 4th, 2006 at 1:03 pmTIME magazine?
December 4th, 2006 at 1:06 pmPiss on that turd.
#25 jon dough
we need to stay till the job is done, we dont need a time table, we need to make more progress faster, but stay till the job is done, otherwise we are opening the doors for huge problems in iraq. because as we have seen throughout history, it is the strong, not the right (correct) that take over, whether it be for the better or the worse.
What does it mean to “stay until the job is done”? Is there no amount of time, regardless of whether or not the job is done, that would be too long? Twenty five years, for example?
We’ve been over that again and again, and I’ve never seen anything but the most pie-in-the-sky description of what a ‘done job’ would be. The people who are insisting on staying until the job is done never want to get into details. They want everyone to shut up and let them just keep doing what they’re doing regardless that there’s no plan and no attempt to measure success. How about some metrics? Business people understand that term. It’s how you determine whether or not you’re effective or even moving in the direction of a goal. This administration, and Rumsfeld in particular, have refused to let anyone establish a set of metrics. They don’t want anyone to measure progress for fear that it would expose that there’s been no progress.
December 4th, 2006 at 1:06 pmDon’t say “timetable” around the Royal Bush; he may just melt away on the spot…
The Boy-Emperor is totally insane and Mr. Klein doesn’t want to disturb the poor dear lying treasonous SOB…
Time ,the weekly fascist lies review magazine and Time magazine senior writer Joe Klein, another neoconical bush-butt kissing moron, what a parley of stupidity greed and evil…
Training Iraqis to oppress Iraqis, so Bush can steal the oil: ’tain’t going to work, buster bush boy.
Cheers.
December 4th, 2006 at 1:29 pmJoe Klein and the gang also nodded sagely at the notion that you arent a “serious, responsible Democrat” unless you voted FOR the Iraq War. The blindness of these people is unbelievable if you dont see it with your own eyes. The whole project is crashing and burning spectacularly (quite literally) before our eyes but if you foresaw that you arent “serious and responsible”
December 4th, 2006 at 1:39 pmUbi dubon’t knubow hubow tubo subay “Wube nubeed uba tubimetubable fubor Ubirubaq” ubin Ububbuby-Dububbuby.
December 4th, 2006 at 2:11 pmWhat does it mean to “stay until the job is done� Is there no amount of time, regardless of whether or not the job is done, that would be too long? Twenty five years, for example?
We’ve been over that again and again, and I’ve never seen anything but the most pie-in-the-sky description of what a ‘done job’ would be. The people who are insisting on staying until the job is done never want to get into details. They want everyone to shut up and let them just keep doing what they’re doing regardless that there’s no plan and no attempt to measure success. How about some metrics? Business people understand that term. It’s how you determine whether or not you’re effective or even moving in the direction of a goal. This administration, and Rumsfeld in particular, have refused to let anyone establish a set of metrics. They don’t want anyone to measure progress for fear that it would expose that there’s been no progress.
youre absolutely right that there is a point where its too long, but the thing is, we’ve been there so long and have so much invested, it seems like a waste to just pull out and let things go back to the way they were.
i think there needs to be less of a “time table” and more of an “accomplishments table”, like you said in your “metrics” point. we need to see proof that progress is being made, but just based on the fact that things arent going the way they should be, we cant just abandon it like a bad stock because of its implications on the people of that nation, and possibly for our country down the road. the last thing anyone wants is some lunatic taking power.
i think taht we need to have the iraqi military/government able to protect its self and maintain some semblance of order in the streets before we leave.
the secular violence is something that i think will always be there, look at ireland, but like ireland, you can still have a “peaceful” country with a government that is at least somewhat in control and able to maintain order.
December 4th, 2006 at 2:21 pm[...] That may be true, but it’s wrong to say it. Add to: Bloglines | document.write(”Del.icio.us”) | Digg it | +Google | Y! MyWeb [...]
December 4th, 2006 at 2:26 pmWell, if somebody said it then Joe and Chris and all the gang wouldn’t have their little secrets anymore, would they? And what fun would that be?
December 4th, 2006 at 2:32 pmJoe figures, if he utters the troops “come home”, he is out of a job. He doesn’t want to get the Phil Donahue treatment.
December 4th, 2006 at 3:11 pmDon’t say “timetable” around the Royal Bush; he may just melt away on the spot…
The Boy-Emperor is totally insane and Mr. Klein doesn’t want to disturb the poor dear lying treasonous SOB…
Time, the weekly fascist lies review magazine and its senior writer Joe Klein, another neoconical bush-butt kissing moron, what a parley of stupidity greed and evil…
Training Iraqis to oppress Iraqis, so Bush can steal the oil: ’tain’t going to work, buster bush boy.
Cheers.
December 4th, 2006 at 3:13 pmWhat the heck is wrong with Klein? It’s not right to state your opinion? Maybe he should return to script writing.
December 4th, 2006 at 4:14 pmLike Chris Matthews (and Andrea Mitchell who subbed for him yesterday), Klein beat the drums for the war early on – only recently, when things really started going badly there have they begun to re-state their opinions, thinking we all forgot their cheerleading at the start.
They would have more credibility if they’d admit they were wrong to have misled us – but modesty is not their strong suit – On the other hand, even if they were to admit they misled us, some of us would find it hard to believe them again. So in the minds of people like myself, they have painted themselves into a corner – a corner they wouldn’t be in today if they had exercised integrity and truthfulness (truthiness?) before this god-awful war began. Now they all simply look desperate to justify their existence as journalists.
#42 jon dough
the secular violence is something that i think will always be there, look at ireland, but like ireland, you can still have a “peaceful†country with a government that is at least somewhat in control and able to maintain order.
I honestly don’t know whether there will ever be an end to the sectarian violence. I don’t know if it will ever be possible for Iraq to govern itself and be able to control the violence. I doubt it will be possible without some long-term intervention by other countries, but the U.S. shouldn’t be one of them. Our presence is not a calming influence. Thanks to Bush, it can’t be. We’re responsible for so much death, destruction, pain and impoverishment, that most of the country will see us as an enemy for a long time to come. It’s past the point where we can do any good for them by physically being there. We need to leave as soon as we can.
December 4th, 2006 at 4:32 pmThats a good point chimpeach, but who else would be willing to do it? I myself am very sick of the US taking the “peace keeper” role all over the world, it costs us billions of dollars and hundreds of lives.
but there are really no other acceptable solutions at this point, its either us or no one.
As iraqis seeing us as enemies, i think for us to leave would only make the situation worse in that regard. They would see the US coming over, destroying everything they had , and leaving. As it is now, i think its better to stay “till the job is done” or at least untill we have helped them get back on their feet after all we’ve done. Other counties have no motive to help these people.
its certainly a tricky situation, no one wants to be in it, but we are all tangled in it, so we may as well do as much as we can not to let it happen again (or at least soon).
December 4th, 2006 at 4:52 pmhe is the creepy high school math teacher busted for ogling his female students on a regular basis – “Shauna, please see me after class about that last quiz”
December 4th, 2006 at 5:16 pmCan we perhaps say it in coded language? Like:
“E-way eed-nay a-way ime-tay able-tay.”
Perhaps we can try doing it charades-style, or go pictionary. Or maybe we can come up with some universal symbol for necessary timetables, the way we have universal stop and yield signs?
Maybe we really can talk about timetables, but we just can’t do it around Joe Klein’s sensitive ears.
Obviously, people ARE talking about timetables. But Joe can continue to pretend that it’s not, for now, because the people talking about timetables aren’t “serious” foreign policy wonks like him and the nitwits that got us into this quagmire.
December 4th, 2006 at 5:47 pmThis from the man who said publicly that we shouldn’t take striking Iran with nuclear weapons off the table. Prompting the normally meek and pliable George Stephanopolous to exclaim, “What? That’s insane!”
It’s not wrong to think that Joe Klein is an idiot who, if he was a monkey, couldn’t be counted on to successfully fling feces at a wall – but it’s wrong to say it.
December 4th, 2006 at 6:48 pmThese pundits have minds like broken, rusty, toothless steel traps.
December 4th, 2006 at 7:05 pmIt’s true that Joe Klein is a wishy-washy douchebag, but it’s probably wrong to say it. ;)
Comment by Theo
That’s funny! :D
December 4th, 2006 at 7:14 pmJoe Klein is the biggest pussy the DLC has ever payed.
December 4th, 2006 at 8:34 pm#48 jon dough
but there are really no other acceptable solutions at this point, its either us or no one.
If you’re trying to glaze windows and the only tool you have is a ten pound sledge hammer, after you’ve broken the first twenty or so panes you’ve tried to install, you really should have reached a point where you start asking yourself if it’s just time to stop. Under the circumstances, you may not ever be able to get the job done. Consider the possibility that the U.S. is the sledge hammer and cannot help install a pane of glass without shattering it. Someone else might be able to provide the right toolset.
December 4th, 2006 at 10:08 pmJoke Line!
December 4th, 2006 at 11:06 pm[...] A complete summation of the conservative worldview, courtesy of Joe Klein, who on Chris Matthews’ show on Sunday responded to a reference to Barack Obama’s proposal to set a timetable to withdraw from Iraq by saying “That may well be true, but it’s wrong to say it.” [...]
December 5th, 2006 at 6:14 pmIt is silly to assume that the administration did have a time table. But a strategic play to start demanding one knowing that the administration cannot show its hand. Then when one is implemented they @#$%bag left can say see I told you so!
They want their power back and do not care if they take our country down to get it.
December 6th, 2006 at 5:58 pm