U.S. soldiers punished for having PTSD.
By on Dec 5th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
U.S. soldiers punished for having PTSD.
“A new investigation by National Public Radio looked at troops diagnosed with mental health disorders and concluded that ‘officers at Ft. Carson punish soldiers who need help, and even kick them out of the Army.’” Paul Rieckhoff, head of the Iraq & Afghanistan Veterans of America, has details.
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Isn’t that Klinger’s dream, to get kicked out on a section 8?
Seriously, to acknowledge the PTSD as real, the officers would have to acknowledge that many soldiers just cannot function in that kind of chaos, and would have to acknowledge that war causes mental problems in soldiers. They would also have to take responsibility and pay for PTSD treatment.
December 5th, 2006 at 3:40 pmI heard this in the car yesterday. Best part of the story is the end when they have a footnote for one of the men who admitted to punishing the soldiers, and who had said his own girlfriend claimed he himself had anger issues. Turns out, that after the interview when he said he refused to go to therapy because he didn’t see himself needing it, turned around and decided to go to therapy himself, and hopes to encourage others to go.
Another part really had me shaking my head. Because those with depression turn to drugs to cope with the pain – their fellow soldiers shun them. They see the drug use as a slap in the face to the group. As if the depressed soldiers are intentionally doing drugs to anger everyone else.
So they see the drug use as a slap in the face, and refuse to talk to the soldier. They say you have to be a “man” and suck it up. It’s so sad to see that in our society, we want men to live without emotion.
But men have just as much emotion as females, and you are NOT less of a man for wanting to cry, or if you’re depressed. Those are natural feelings that break any race and sexual orientation boundary.
I hope these soldiers learn this soon.
December 5th, 2006 at 3:41 pmi heard this yesterday. it was a ‘driveway moment’ . *outstanding* journalism. i hope the higher ups at fort carson use this as an opportunity to push for a more service-wide reform of mental health care.
December 5th, 2006 at 3:42 pmBut let’s gather 20,000 more and get the job done. Let’s strike Iran.
The enlistment age will be 13-60 years old, if they can’t deploy troops who are unstable.
Then think of all the troops who will hide their ilness to be deployed and not be a disgrace to their fellow soldiers. In this way putting themselves and those they fight with in more danger, perhaps.
It’s so sad. Somewhat OT, but my brother said some guys that he was in Baghdad with (he came home TODAY!!! Thank GOD!!) re-signed because they got about $20k in non-taxed bonuses for signing abroad…only to come back home and find that their friends re-enlisted for much more here in the States. Just amazes me the things they say and do to get these kids in there, and then dismiss them before the ink is dry.
December 5th, 2006 at 3:54 pmThey would also have to take responsibility and pay for PTSD treatment.
Comment by ForTruth
Ah, the sticking point…
December 5th, 2006 at 3:56 pmMakes me sad to be reading about this from a computer…on Fort Carson.
December 5th, 2006 at 3:56 pmMy Dad made 11 beach-heads in the South Pacific in WWII.
He was a radioman, which meant he was among the first to hit the beach. He had 2 purple hearts & the Bronze Star for his service. One landing found him the sole survivor of his entire Company.
When he got home, they said it was ’shell shock’. (PTSD).
That was for a war everyone believed in.
I have two first cousins on full disability from PTSD suffered in ‘Nam.
These were the type of guys you would have wanted with you as point guards on night patrol. Tough. Unwavering. Combat ready.
Soldiers have suffered PTSD in every war in history. It goes with the territory. Still, it’s no different than WTC survivors with nightmares, panic, nausea, etc. It can happen to anyone; it’s just that soldiers are nearly guaranteed to suffer from it.
Those that deny it are in denial. They do not get better. They may go off the ‘deep end’, just trying to cope with the denial.
Let’s all hope the new congressional majority recognizes this fact and fully funds the VA for treatment.
We may not agree with our reasons for going into Iraq, but it’s still an American war.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:04 pmSupport the Troops! Bring them home, while providing the help they’ll need.
I guess this is what the Republicans call supporting the troops …
#1 ForTruth
December 5th, 2006 at 4:04 pmMaybe if the soldiers actually took Klinger’s lead they could wear dresses and get out … though for the men that would be interpreted as breaking the don’t ask don’t tell policy. And remember, Klinger couldn’t get that section 8 cause his want to get out of the war meant he was perfectly sane … one would have to be insane to want to stay, but then they wouldn’t want to leave, so no need for the section 8. There’s a catch-22 for ya.
Makes me sad reading about this on a computer any where…Blessings
December 5th, 2006 at 4:06 pmThe hypocrisy regarding Paul Rieckhoff should be self-evident. Rieckhoff will, justifiably, point out how shabbily veterans are treated when they return from the Middle East but will still stubbornly insist that those troops should not be withdrawn from that quagmire in Iraq. It should be obvious that in order to prevent more veterans from ending up in a VA hospital, that those soldiers should not be forced in that position in the first place and that advocating immediate withdrawal would ensure that a lot less veterans would have to cope with PTSD. One wonders how many more Americans have to needlessly die in Iraq- perhaps 58,000, about the same number who died in Vietnam?- before macho Paul Rieckhoff would ever advocate rapid withdrawal, thus making sure that fewer soldiers are forced to confront what they had gone through, unnecessarily, in Iraq.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:06 pmI heard this during my commute yesterday as well. Thank the gods for NPR! Talk about supporting the troops. How dispicable. This reminds me of the old stigma that someone who needs therapy is an embarassment. There is nothing wrong with therapy when it’s actually needed. Hell, the majority of these troops are seeking therapy to become the best troops they can be.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:13 pmThis is another disgusting disgrace brought to you by George Bush and family, at the cost of our Military personnel and theirs.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:18 pmI cannot think of how I would counsel a soldier on how to be a better killer.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:21 pmI heard most of this yesterday too. Outstanding journalism. This is an example of what the TV news should be covering rather than Britney and Borat.
We are going to be dealing with the psychological consequences of this misguided adventure for decades after these folks eventually come home.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:24 pmThis story is so incredibly sad, on so many levels.
Thank you for your story, Zimzone. It must have been difficult trying to figure out “what was wrong” with Dad, as they probably didn’t do much in the way of treatment.
This affects families, and extends out to the community. It’s actually like a ripple in a lake; it expands and touches more lives than we can fathom.
That we are treating our soldiers like this even now is unthinkable. Uncaring. UnAmerican.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:29 pmInhuman.
Because those with depression turn to drugs to cope with the pain…
Comment by NewNameAcquired — December 5, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
it’s not clear to me if you refer to anti-depressants of illegal drug use…
i would guess it could be either…
how any of these people face a war situation and come back unscathed at all would be a miracle… so, doubtful any do…
December 5th, 2006 at 4:31 pmsad…
This story needs to be posted at every recruitment center and should be a prime material used by all counter recruiters.
I have to offer the army props, though, for truth in advertising when they came out with the line “An Army of One”. I guess I didn’t see the mouse type that furthered with “Because you will truly be on your own”.
War is such a nasty and despicable business. I wonder why we have chosen it as our central industry.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:34 pmI guess we’re all dorks ;) I was also listening to this yesterday and left it on while (ironically) pumping gas, which brought several other customers over to listen… It was quite a moment with many shaking their heads… Especially at the part where they explained that the military discharges combat vets, who they knowingly have PTSD, for minor offenses so that they don’t have to spend the money to treat them for it later.
I personally know a Vietnam Combat vet, diagnosed with PTSD, who has only now (last year) finally qualified for the full benefits he deserves… over 30 years after serving there.
Hopefully, we will treat our Iraqi vets better, but we are certainly not off to a good start. It is hard for many people, including myself, to get over the terrible administrations and policies that send our boys to fight these un-just wars, and to not see them as simply enablers of those policies. Its just not that simple. Whether we like it or agree with it or not, these guys have put their lives on the line for our country and they need the respect that act clearly deserves.
We also need to be more steadfast as a country in making sure they are only put in danger for the right reasons, with the right equiptment, and with the right strategies and exit strategies. No longer can we allow soldiers to be considered simply expendable pawns for Corporate interests and we can no longer afford to confuse Corporate interests with “American Interests”.
Our country is too diverse to allow such a small, elite (yes, I said it) group decide who our enemies are and when we go to war.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:34 pmAmen June.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:44 pm#18,
Actually, for reasons including many that you state, it requires an act of congress to declare “war”. “War” has not been declared on Iraq so all the formal checks and balances have been bypassed. Yet we call it a “war” which is wrong but not odd considering that our mainstream propaganda…uh, media machine has made sure that we the public are inundated with the term.
I think I just blew a fuse in my head trying to contemplate the meaning of all this. phzzzt.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:52 pm“American Kick ass Pride” comes before the actual well-being of any given citizen. And if it means sacrificing citizens to maintain it, so be it.
December 5th, 2006 at 4:52 pmThis story saddens me. I truly believe that there is no alternative for us to win. Yes, I’m a reichwingnut, but we truly need to bring our men and women home. We can’t force liberation on a nation that doesn’t want to accept it. I’m tired of hearing the death of service members as well as fellow officers. Even though I don’t recognize this holiday season, this is a time to be gleeful, but with this continuous war how can you. I truly feel sympathetic for those families’ who have love ones over there during this season. I can no longer allow this administration to use these soldiers as pawns, they’re human beings. I was in tears yesterday because I viewed the CNN report on the war, and watched an Iraqi civilian spit at the foot/face of a soldier, that disturbs me dearly. True, I can say that I’m blessed because I have a house, car, successful profession, but I could care less about me and my material items. What about them?
December 5th, 2006 at 4:53 pm#22,
Your crocodile tears couldn’t be more contrived. The story of our soldiers is tragic. Yet the story of what we’ve done to Iraq is horrific and shameful. You try to act like a humanitarian regarding a relatively small block of humans while ignoring a substantially larger block of humans that has far greater harms being done to them.
I’m looking through the various religious doctrines to see where they state that only Americans deserve compassion and respect.
December 5th, 2006 at 5:05 pmDaryll,
That’s the most sensible thing you have ever said. Well done.
December 5th, 2006 at 5:07 pm#22,
Your crocodile tears couldn’t be more contrived. The story of our soldiers is tragic. Yet the story of what we’ve done to Iraq is horrific and shameful. You try to act like a humanitarian regarding a relatively small block of humans while ignoring a substantially larger block of humans that has far greater harms being done to them.
I’m looking through the various religious doctrines to see where they state that only Americans deserve compassion and respect.
Comment by Tuber — December 5, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
I completely agree.
December 5th, 2006 at 5:11 pmTuber,
No, I get it. I guess I am referring to any military action as “war”.
December 5th, 2006 at 5:11 pm#26 June,
I hear ya. I don’t know what’s more disturbing, the fact that we have done it so many times (as humans) that we have rules for war, or that there are people who are so evil that they have to break the rules of war.
Phzzzt. Damn, there goes another fuse.
December 5th, 2006 at 5:30 pmBeing deemed psycologically unfit by an “army psyche” that rivals that of hannibal lecter, would be a compliment.
December 5th, 2006 at 5:48 pmThese men and women do not need counseling on how to be a better killer. They know they have been far too capable of killing.
They need counseling on how to become human again.
December 5th, 2006 at 7:52 pmIn WWI, people used to get shot for being shell shocked. There is _some_ improvement, I see.
On a totally related note, the WaPo pumped out an article dismissing ‘Gulf War Syndrome’ saying that “scientific consensus” was against it. _That_ scientific consenus must have rapidly built in the last forthnight or so because I always remembered hearing the contrary. At least the ’scientific consensus’ of the UK says that GWS is for real (took some time, too). Weird. Note that the article’s complaints about inappropriate funding might well be true, but that’s basically another question.
More here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/02/AR2006120201291.html
December 5th, 2006 at 8:24 pmThis nation was FOUNDED on other peoples misery,pain,pillage,rape,slavery and murder.
Anyone who stood in the “invaders” way got dealt with.
Succinctly.
I guess the Moslem world has learned and adhered to our own history better than even we ourselves have.
That is what is sad.
All the “glorification” about what a “great nation this is”.
Charlie Manson could have been somehow made out to be an American hero instead of what he really is/was.
All at the stroke of the pen,in one fell swoop,his can be altered.
The American Indian knows this better than anyone.
December 5th, 2006 at 8:26 pmI read a report a few years back that some “selected” soldiers were
“taken out”(killed) by us (our own military/CIA) after being deemed unfit for duty anymore.(PTSD/psychological misgivings)
I wonder what they would have really enlightened us with.I don`t suppose that would have made very good print/tv though right?
I will let it rest and mark it up to one of those “national security” state secrets this administration adorns itself in whenever it gets into trouble.
“It is not in our national security interest to eat jellybeans anymore.”
Do you see the folly in this administration.
December 5th, 2006 at 9:46 pmcannot think of how I would counsel a soldier on how to be a better killer.
Comment by ForTruth — December 5, 2006 @ 4:21 pm
These people do not need counsel on how to be a better killer. They need help in dealing with what they have seen and done.
These men and women do not need counseling on how to be a better killer. They know they have been far too capable of killing.
They need counseling on how to become human again.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
They also do not need counseling on how to be human again. The issue is that they are human and have had do see and do things that thousands of years of human evolution and theocracy have told us is wrong. They have been subjected to things that humans were not designed psychologically to deal with. This is an illness that takes so many forms that there is no simple plan or single treatment. It can range from just bad dream to violent outbursts. All are very human reactions to traumatic experiences.
I will say that what the Army is doing to these Soldiers is dead wrong and should not be tolerated. When I heard this on the radio yesterday, I was shocked.
Remember, they are human, and as such they too are subject to weakness.
December 5th, 2006 at 10:19 pm#7 I guess my GP was lucky, he was shot down on his first mission and spent the war in Stalag 17B (yep, the inspiration for the movie and the TV show, Hogan’s Heroes). It wasn’t the rip roaring time that HH showed but at least he didn’t see most of the butchery of war.
December 5th, 2006 at 10:42 pm#22 What the hell is winning and why aren’t you over there???
December 5th, 2006 at 10:43 pmComment by robert — December 5, 2006 @ 10:19 pm
robert, you miss my point. In a shaman’s terms, they are in need of a soul retrieval. Part of their soul is missing. I don’t expect you to understand, but please do not contradict merely because you misunderstand. You really have no clue as to what they are going through, nor the pain that empaths, healers, and shamans are dealing with on a daily basis right now.
December 6th, 2006 at 12:55 amNetwork Executive: “For God’s sake, Chris! The whole world is watching. We can’t let him die in front of a live audience!”
December 6th, 2006 at 4:50 amI’m blessed because I have a house, car, successful profession, but I could care less about me and my material items. What about them?
Comment by Daryll — December 5, 2006 @ 4:53 pm
What about them?
You can keep yourself Daryll,I`ll take all your material items.
December 6th, 2006 at 4:53 amhttp://prisonplanet.com/video/171106beating.wmv
This Is Why The Iraqis Hate Us
Another beating snuff video shames coalition of the killing, You Tube censors it
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, November 17, 2006
British troops punch, beat and kick pleading Iraqi children as a sadistic comrade films the brutal scenes of torture, laughing, screaming, growling and frothing like a serial killer filming a snuff movie. This is why the Iraqis hate us.
Iraqi children throw rocks as they flee from running British troops, are grabbed, brought inside a gate and beaten half to death. Watch the video below. The censorship spies at You Tube rejected it 2 minutes after upload so I re-named it “Fluffy Happy Poodles In Heaven,” to try and bypass their keyword filters and it was still rejected. I even renamed the actual ‘wmv’ filename but it was still blocked for “terms of use violation.” I finally managed to get it posted on Google Video. If it disappears again, here’s the Windows Media link on our server.
November 19th: Google removed the video too! So here’s an old copy the censors at You Tube missed.
—————————————
I picked up the video and the link http://prisonplanet.com/video/171106beating.wmv
for the video.It`s windows format.Download it while it lives.
Probably won`t be around too long.Pass it around.
This guy keeps getting his video censored,so please share with all you know.
slipknot
December 6th, 2006 at 5:43 am#36 BnF
After reading this post I decided to take a little time and let it absorb before saying anything. Maybe you are trying to stir me up and maybe you are forgetting what I do for a living.
You talk about the work that shaman, empaths, and healers are doing every day to deal with this situation. What you are talking about is mysticism. All the same could be said for Rabbis, Priests, and Ministers. They are all working hard to help returning Vets. I see the programs that the Marine Corps has in place to help those returning. I have taken part in the services they offer. I can not speak for what the other branches are doing.
Every day I see the TRUE effects of PTSD. I work with some of those that suffer. I have neighbors and friends that have lost their families or turned to “other means†in order to cope with what they are going through. To me, they are not a news story or a statistic, they are my community (I live on base).
Some of us that have come back just get the occasional bad dream. I have a Buddhist friend tell me it is the ghosts of what we have seen. We are the lucky ones. I had one of my troops driving down the road in his pick-up truck and suddenly felt like he was back in Iraq, started looking for signs of IEDs and driving in a very aggressive manner. This of course brought the attention of the local police department. When he called me that night and told me about the ticket he had gotten, all he could say was “Staff Sergeant, I forgot where I was.†The next morning I referred him to medical for a PTSD Screening. He is doing much better now as a result of his treatment.
No, I may not know what every individual is going through, but I do know what those around me are going through. The bottom line is these people need trained psychological help, not mysticism. They do not need to learn to be HUMAN again; they need to learn how to be THEMSELVES again.
December 6th, 2006 at 8:36 amD’ya think maybe when you say the soldiers are being punished for having PTSD you could tell us what “PTSD” is? Not all of us are up on the latest psychological acronyms.
A commenter, bless him or her, said it’s what they used to call “shell shock.” Cool. Thanks. But s/he erroneously said that it’s been suffered by soldiers through history. Actually, it’s fairly new, collaboratively invented by U.S. Grant and R.E. Lee in 1864. In the older days, the army would fight a battle for a few hours, take a few months off, then fight another battle. Terrifying, but not shell-shocking. Shell shock comes from being put into line of battle and left there, day in, day out, for months. From wondering, every minute, whether the next bullet or explosive device has your name on it.
December 6th, 2006 at 10:47 amReminds me the movie “Patton”, when the general visits the infirmary tent, how 1940’s…
December 6th, 2006 at 11:42 am#40 Robert
December 6th, 2006 at 2:39 pmI’m not sure Brisneadh na Faire knew what you do for a living, but should now have a better understanding. I feel compelled to say to BnF that there is much in this world than empaths, et al. Whatever a soldier, active-duty or not, needs is what should be provided to allow them to become who they were. BnF, please don’t contradict because YOU don’t understand.
Oops. “that there is much in this world than empaths, et al.” should be “much more in this world”
December 6th, 2006 at 2:40 pmLisa, thank you, honestly and sincerely.
And for the record, I have much respect for BnF although he and I rarely agree.
December 6th, 2006 at 3:47 pmWe lost our Josh to Military PTSD also. He took his own life almost a year after his 11 mo. tour of duty in Iraq. PTSD can take 6-12 mo. typically to form full force. Since we’ve advocated for the rights of these men and women who are returning at a rate of ONE IN THREE w/PTSD. We’ve met WAY too many families dealing with this demon disorder. Josh’s “story” and those of other families is here, please share it everywhere you can. The American Public MUST KNOW about this:
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