Does The Iraq Study Group Report Call For A Timetable?
Does The Iraq Study Group Report Call For A Timetable?
Yesterday, Tony Snow claimed that the Iraq Study Group report contained “no suggestions for drop-dead dates or benchmarks” for the redeployment of U.S. forces. While the ISG report is filled with so many caveats that it’s difficult to tell what it is actually saying, one implication is clear: the Iraqis have one year to take over military operations — or else.
In other words, yes, it’s a timetable, Tony.
On page 72, the report calls for “all combat brigades not necessary for force protection to be out of Iraq. At that time, U.S. combat forces in Iraq could be deployed only in units embedded with Iraqi forces.” Recommendation 42 of the report says that we should “seek to complete the training and equipping mission by the first quarter of 2008.”
By indicating that “combat brigades” should be out of Iraq by early 2008, the clear implication of the ISG report is that the Iraqis have a little more than a year to fully take over military operations. What has caused confusion is that the report leaves open the possibility of “embedding” an unspecified number of U.S. troops in Iraqi units after the first quarter of 2008. This has led many to believe that the troop redeployments called for by the ISG report would be very limited.
But the embedding of U.S. troops is conditional on the Iraqis having a capable fighting force. You cannot embed U.S. forces unless there is a stable, disciplined, and effective Iraqi fighting force. As Michael Gordon pointed out today, many in the military do not believe the Iraqi military will be capable of supporting embedded forces in a year. But that is precisely the challenge that ISG is putting to the Iraqis.
And if the Iraqis are unable to support embedded U.S. troops, the report states that the U.S. “carry out its plans, including planned redeployments, even if Iraq does not implement its planned changes.” The implication, in other words, is that if Iraqis don’t ’stand up,’ we are all out of there in 14 months.
– Max Bergmann
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By the next Presidential election, of course, perfect timing.
December 7th, 2006 at 8:21 pmTony Snow claimed that the Iraq Study Group report contained “no suggestions for drop-dead dates“… – - Cheeky Tony, very cheeky.
December 7th, 2006 at 8:21 pmI’m afraid there’s a little bit too much nuance in those recommendations for GDumbya. If they really wanted him to understand their report, they should have limited all sentences to not more than five monosyllabic words.
December 7th, 2006 at 8:29 pmThe only viable “plan” for our presence in Iraq is that offered long before there ever was an Iraq invasion, and it was in regards to The Amityville Horror, offered by Eddie Murphy in his stand-up movie Raw and it truly is a very clear and easy plan to grasp:
December 7th, 2006 at 8:42 pm
“Get Out!!â€
Yup, that’s a good plan . . . at least now that the best plan is no longer feasible:
‘Don’t Go In In The First Place!!’
December 7th, 2006 at 8:45 pmSorry, but the Iraq Study Group Report is a cover to justify keeping troops in Iraq for the rest of Bush’s term in office. 2008 is a presidential election year, so some baloney is put into the report to try to pacify voters to think the occupation is ending later in 2008, but is untrue. Irregardless for the next year 2007 nothing will change, so that means another 1 to 2 thousand US troops slain and another 10,000+ wounded/maimed, just for 2007. Anyway do not fall for the report, because Baker works for the Bush family and always will be their fixer pal.
December 7th, 2006 at 8:51 pmIt took these people 8 month’s to come up with all this crap that most of us knew day one of this miserable bush war…While they fiddled and diddled over 600 of our troop’s and who know’s how many Iraq men, women and children were killed…Upon compleation of this piece of late trash it is already obsolete…..I would of given them 90 day’s to get in and out on day one. Let me take that back I never wanted this war to begin with…What the hell is wrong with the water and people in DC.? Are they all brain dead..????? We know bush is, is it possible he and cheney were handing out kool aid for all their break’s…..Watch, bull shit bush will either do nothing or pick one or two item’s and drag his feet untill his terrible blight on our country is complete….The worst mass murderer since the holacost and the worst president in our countries history…We need Blessings
December 7th, 2006 at 8:55 pmtimetable… no timetable… i maintain it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever WHAT is in the report… it’s been clear from the outset that the isg was intended to be nothing but smoke and mirrors, to buy time and provide cover for the bush administration to keep on doing exactly what it pleases, but and i disagree with with aj on americablog that the group “caved…” i think they were quite well “caved” before they started, and we americans, endlessly hopeful that the wise ones sitting on the dais really do know best, ate it up, hook, line, and sinker… we’ve been hoodwinked and bamboozled yet again… everyone’s aflutter – over nothing… i would also suspect that the report is being used as toilet paper over in bush’s private quarters…
December 7th, 2006 at 9:03 pmAnd, yes, I DO take it personally
I knew it was a mistake to go into Iraq in the 1st place –but am I the only one who bought $50,000 worth of Iraqi dinars?
December 7th, 2006 at 9:05 pmIraq Study Group page 1, Iraqi oil fields must be privatized .
The president said it himself,” imagine terroist in control of of that much middle east oil”, whom we can’t control .
Would you ask your son or daughter to die for oil?
December 7th, 2006 at 9:05 pmBaker, Eagleberger Halliburton all make money off this war, and who knows how many more .
Given that violence is worsening every day, a year is way too long for the troops to remain. Hell, a month may be too long.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:09 pmWhat if the Iraqi people turn against our soldiers? Bush ordered torture against innocent Iraqis, and I imagine neither Shia nor Sunni are very happy with the U.S.
How about drop dead — now?
December 7th, 2006 at 9:12 pm$50,000 in Iraqi dinars? Can some one tell me what this is worth? This is like “Buffalo ’66″!!! I got screwed!!!
December 7th, 2006 at 9:24 pmIf McCain and Lieberman take over America, then half the population of this country would seek asylum elsewhere! McCain apparently has severe abnormal brain damage, and Lieberman is a paid spy for Israel, so the 2 of them together would be worse than Bush and Cheney!
December 7th, 2006 at 9:25 pmHey Max, take it easy. You act as if the ISG’s report is somehow the gospel. Just because it leaves open the possibility for US troops to come home in 14 months, certainly doesn’t make it so, even if Iraqi forces aren’t capable of having embeds.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:29 pm50,000 Iraqi dinars is probably worth about 50 cents in US! Before we invaded Iraq a dinar was worth about the same as American dollar, but now that currency is next to worthless!
December 7th, 2006 at 9:30 pm16. Lieberman is a paid spy for Israel? We demand proof here on TP. Can you back that up? Don’t get me wrong –bush lied, people died.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:35 pmSo $50,000 in Dinars doesn’t = $50,000 in US dollars? I should have gone to private school.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:43 pmMike > Lieberman is rated the number one top supporter and defender for Israel in the Congress! In fact Israel helped to get him reelected in November election! Plus he has connections up the yazoo in Israel, including a cousin who is now the vice PM there! Joe works for Israel, but nobody likes to talk about it, because saying anything gets one attacked!
December 7th, 2006 at 9:46 pmI agree Jay Randal!!! –you mean Israel was stolen, right?
December 7th, 2006 at 9:51 pmstumbling, bumbling snowjob Tony again has his head where the sun doesn’t shine! This report is simply another distraction to fend off the wishes of the people….Like a ping pong ball, this report will be bantered and lobbed back and forth. Bottom line is: The people want action now – they’ve spoken with their votes. Isn’t that enough for any logical, level-headed, PAID public servant to acknowledge? Pappy Bushbag tried to assist with the stalling tactic to forestall Jr.’s impeachment but it isn’t distracting the people from hollering for impeachment one iota. The stree demonstrations are kicking into higher gear, even in small towns, all across the country. Our paid, public servants (yep, Bush and Cheney, too) need to listen to the people they “serve”. It’s not the reverse and it’s time to bring them either to their knees via impeachment or make them do the job they are being paid to do…..and that is to WORK FOR THE PEOPLE AS A PUBLIC SERVANT.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:53 pmThe ISG report is meaningless, whether it has a timetable or not. Bush’s ego has a timetable, and it’ll pile up death and debt until his last day in office.
Except for Bush’s rhetoric, there’s little evidence that he cares at all about “victory” in Iraq. His adherence to a failed plan makes that obvious. AWOL when it was his time to fight, Bush has made it clear that his status as a tough “war president” is all-important to him. The quagmire is working fine for him, and he won’t allow any interference from Americans.
“One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.†…Presidential candidate George W. Bush, 1999
December 7th, 2006 at 10:02 pmZooey –tell them what it was like in the 40’s…
December 7th, 2006 at 10:06 pmI suspect the reason the plumber visited the white house this morning was the ISG report made terrible toilet paper.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:09 pmliberal mike, you need to get a job. Something to keep your mind off of all those voices in your head.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:10 pmIf Bush plugged up a White House toilet with the Iraq Study Group Report, then I hope the plumber takes pics to prove it > lol.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:20 pmbeginning jan.4 – email, phone, us mail each of your reps and senators this simple message:
GET OUT NOW.
every day… tell them what you want, every day… start jan.4…
December 7th, 2006 at 10:22 pm.
I’m a lib just like you JPark. I don’t know why you are attacking me in such a mean way –that hurts. ;-(
December 7th, 2006 at 10:24 pmInteresting that this embed US forces with Iraqis comes up in the report. Rumsfeld tried to get Australia to agree to do this with our forces, but we said “No way”
Why? Our prime minister is terrified of casualties, and besides, we’re pulling out in June, 2007.
Rumsfeld Asked Australia, Twice, To Allow Troops To Be Embedded With Iraqi Forces, Australia Said “No!” Both Times
December 7th, 2006 at 10:28 pmmr jay randal,
the democrats who aren’t joe lieberman will not save you either…
why are BILL AND HILLARY CLINTON sharing the stage with a genocidal maniac this weekend?
here are some of the highlights of mr lieberman’s past:
# In 1998, Avigdor Lieberman called for the flooding of Egypt by bombing the Aswan Dam in retaliation for Egyptian support for Yasser Arafat.
# In 2002, the Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth quoted Lieberman in a Cabinet meeting saying that the Palestinians should be given an ultimatum that “At 8am we’ll bomb all the commercial centers…at noon we’ll bomb their gas stations…at two we’ll bomb their banks…â€
# In 2003, Haaretz reported that Lieberman called for thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel to be drowned in the Dead Sea and offered to provide the buses to take them there.
# Also in May 2004, he said that 90 percent of Israel’s 1.2 million Palestinian citizens would “have to find a new Arab entity†in which to live beyond Israel’s borders. “They have no place here. They can take their bundles and get lost,†he said.
# In May 2006, Lieberman called for the killing of Arab members of Knesset who meet with members of the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority.
some concerned progressives and democrats are sending the following letter to HILLARY to ask her to cancel her meeting with him while he is in new york. is this the woman you want to be president????
if you are concerned, her contact information can be found at the top of the letter.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:28 pmIt is a very simple matter:
“Orders for General …., Commander, US Troops. Iraq,
You shall immediately, repeat immediately, commence the evacuation (relocation, redeployment, rescheduling or whatever term doesn’t scorch your shorts as long as you get their collective ass home where it belongs) of all, repeat all, activity duty military and military support personnel. and other American citizens from the Country of Iraq. Contractor personnel, and other employees of all contracting corporations approved by the Bush Administration are to be included but are to be detained outside the Country (Guantanamo Bay, Cuba) for investigation of any criminal activity. Said reassignment will be done with consideration given to the protection of the last man (Yourself) to leave the Country. The logistic assets required will be assigned upon your request. No response in the negative is expected nor will it be considered. Don’t tell us it can’t be done; just do it. We understand they may not all be home for Christmas but you should plan on spending Valentine’s Day at home with your young Bride or in Kansas. Unless Dubya, Dick, Don, and Condom, ET AL, change their names it ain’t gonna be with Alice and Toto. Your choice.
The True American Citizens.”
December 7th, 2006 at 10:30 pm#33 You aren’t even a good fake troll.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:31 pmI hope Karl asks for a refund.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:32 pm# 35
“nostradamus asked ‘is this the woman you want to be president?’ ”
Probably!
December 7th, 2006 at 10:34 pmYes, get angry JPark… finally you aren’t being such a pussy.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:35 pmMike, I am not angry. I am very sorry Rove has to scrape the absolute bottom of the barrel for trolls now.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:38 pmcan we have putin have one of his ‘friends’ have dinner with george and dick…
December 7th, 2006 at 10:39 pmIt looks like the wingnuts have dispatched the truly f*cked up trolls.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:39 pmnostradamus > I have no idea why Bill and Hillary Clinton want to meet with Avigdor Lieberman?! It perplexes me that Hillary likes Joe Lieberman who called her husband a pervert during the Monica affair scandal. Maybe Hillary is Jewish? I know she rabidly supports Israel, so she acts like a Zionist. Thanks for posting that info on Avigdor!
December 7th, 2006 at 10:41 pmZooey at least Seixon is not on here > lol.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:43 pmJay,
He was for a little while a few days ago. Still superior to all of us!
December 7th, 2006 at 10:44 pmso, just which thread is evidently the rotting pile that has attracted these new, mostly obnoxious, unbalanced trolls? … an announcement of an upcoming birth did this? … yeesh…
December 7th, 2006 at 10:45 pmit is my pleasure, mr randal…
z, please read post #14 above…it is from mr malloy’s show tonight :)
December 7th, 2006 at 10:46 pmDear ren???
I don’t get it. Maybe some smarter libs can explain your logic to me. If they can’t, I’m right. And you are just stupid.
M
December 7th, 2006 at 10:47 pmI agree Jay Randal!!! –you mean Israel was stolen, right?
Comment by liberal_Mike — December 7, 2006 @ 9:51 pm
The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, with the Jewish area consisting of roughly 55% of the land, and the Arab area roughly 45%. Jerusalem was planned to be an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status
Yeah basically, the U.N took over and everything improved as it always does with them.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:47 pmThere is nothing worse than gay facial expressions at the end of your sentences…
Comment by ren — December 7, 2006 @ 10:41 pm
Is that a negative conotation about homosexuals?
December 7th, 2006 at 10:48 pmMeanwhile, back at Guantanamo:
By the numbers: 25% of the “terrorists” weren’t terrorists after all. They have been innocent, yet held prisoner for years. (Were they tortured?) We were wrong at least one fourth of the time.
Only 3% have been charged with any crime. This after years of being tortured.
Now, how would you feel if you were taken prisoner by a foreign power, held and tortured for years without ever getting so much as a hearing. That’s what we’re doing to citizens of other countries. If 97% of the foreign citizens in Guantanamo haven’t even been charged with a crime, what are we doing holding them prisoner? Because we guess they are a “terrorist?”
Oh, and we just borrowed another $37 million to build yet another prison at a facility that international human rights investigators said should be shut down. I guess since we spent all that money building the thing, we have to use it, human rights be damned.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:49 pm#53 …says Tundra, the pro-gay Republican. You like gays now???
December 7th, 2006 at 10:50 pmso, just which thread is evidently the rotting pile that has attracted these new, mostly obnoxious, unbalanced trolls?
So far looks like this one :)
(Because making that gesture may be considered gay, I did it anyway. Just to show how I support the homosexual community)
December 7th, 2006 at 10:51 pm#53 Coming to the defense of a scumbag like that does nothing for your credibility.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:51 pmz, please read post #14 above…it is from mr malloy’s show tonight :)
Comment by nostradamus
I knew it, I just knew it! Heh.
I noticed a certain Mr Stewart “appropriated” a joke I’ve been using for a while now. Thanks for the heads up, j.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:52 pmJPark,
Tundra is winding you up.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:54 pm#53 …says Tundra, the pro-gay Republican. You like gays now???
Comment by JPark — December 7, 2006 @ 10:50 pm
I support gay marriage, always have (It’s the libertarian part of me). I’ve never had any issue with anyone because they were homosexual.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:54 pmmost of the children are asking for ‘two more magic bullets‘ for christmas…
December 7th, 2006 at 10:55 pmTundra, yes, many gays have certain mannerisms.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:57 pm#53 Coming to the defense of a scumbag like that does nothing for your credibility.
Comment by JPark — December 7, 2006 @ 10:51 pm
It’s not so much defending him as showing what a bigot ren is. Terms like Jewie/gay just aren’t acceptable anymore, but he continues to use them here. The other thing is noone calls him out on it because he is liberal. It’s sort of like Republicans defending Bush regardless of what he does (Or at least not saying anything), when he is clearly out of line.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:58 pmI’m sure you know them all too… dirtbag…
December 7th, 2006 at 10:59 pmThere is no way that McCain, Liebermann or Clinton will EVER be elected president or vice president.
Each may have a good idea from time to time, but they’re all just too freaking boring, and dislikable. You know anyone who would want to have a beer with any of these three?
Nope, I didn’t think so. Personalitywise they suck! Besides America is alreadysick of their faces and their insipid political histories. It takes someone fresh on the national scene to get elected.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:00 pmWho can blame them, santa’s elf? But children should not be playing with bullets. :)*
*sorry, is that gay?
December 7th, 2006 at 11:01 pmliberal_Mike is a tweaker.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:02 pmTundra, you just defended a royal prick and you are lecturing liberals that they should denounce ren? Are you kidding?
December 7th, 2006 at 11:03 pm#65 Oh, mikey, I cringe for you. It is just so embarassing being you.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:04 pmNot sure Zooey, but this symbol might have more meaning ()==> lol.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:07 pmTundra, you just defended a royal prick and you are lecturing liberals that they should denounce ren? Are you kidding?
Comment by JPark — December 7, 2006 @ 11:03 pm
How did I defend anyone? I said.
Is that a negative conotation about homosexuals?
Comment by Tundra — December 7, 2006 @ 10:48 pm
I haven’t made any comments to the person you are debating with. I never made any comments supporting any position he has. I simply made the point that using the term gay was not appropriate. He may very well have upset homosexuals by associating liberal_mike with them.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:08 pmNo, of course you didn’t make any comments against the real homophobe. Why would you?
December 7th, 2006 at 11:10 pmDoes my denouncing something said by one side make me defend the other? Is it an “Either you are with us or against us type thing”
December 7th, 2006 at 11:10 pmUm, thanks Jay. :}
December 7th, 2006 at 11:11 pmYes, I do think so Tundra, Mikey boy is the real offender but you deflect criticism of him by attacking someone else.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:13 pmAngie, you need to grow a personality. Maybe then you will get the positive attention you crave. Pissing on the bed may get you attention but it is not GOOD attention.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:14 pmNo, of course you didn’t make any comments against the real homophobe. Why would you?
Comment by JPark — December 7, 2006 @ 11:10 pm
This is the first thread I have seen him in. I am not one to assume he hates gays because he is obviously on the right wing of the fence. I don’t see anything in this thread from him about the subject. But if he does hate homosexuals then yes I would consider him a bigot as well.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:15 pmThen you keep reading Tundra.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:16 pmI’m a progesive just like you JPark.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:19 pmliberal_mike, quit trolling for reactions, if you have something intellegent to say, please say it.
Ren, I use emotes such as =) =P =D
So the Fsck what?
I am definately not gay.
I do however however have friends and some family that are. I don’t like seeing that name used as a slur.
I agree with Tundra. Stop the bigot crap. It is not good for debate and conversation and it makes you much less credible. It makes you look like a bigot.
67 —- Zooey
LMAO =D
December 7th, 2006 at 11:21 pmYeah, you are Mike. I have run across a lot of Brownback liberals.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:21 pmThank you Tundra. I feel the same way. Although, dammit, can you get rid of the right wing trolls??
December 7th, 2006 at 11:22 pmMikey, I have never, ever, called myself a progesive.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:23 pmWow, The response blows me away.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:23 pmWayne,
Do you have any wisdom to share with JPark about getting rid of trolls? I’ve used up my allotment of wisdom for the day.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:26 pmAngie, your potty-mouth is such a turn-on. I am betting Jesus would get all how and bothered over you.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:27 pmNo, ren, his dog is not named JPark. I am sure it is loyal and all but…
December 7th, 2006 at 11:28 pm#92 Actually Zooey, I am not sure what I would do with myself without trolls. It is my me time.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:29 pmThank you Wayne for the consistancy you have always shown.
Mikey, I have never, ever, called myself a progesive.
Comment by JPark — December 7, 2006 @ 11:23 pm
JPark a progressive hehe. He’s about as progressive as I am. Liberals and Libertarians share alot of the same Rights to privacy and treat each other equally type concerns regardless of race/religion/sexual orientation/color etc.
Thank you Tundra. I feel the same way. Although, dammit, can you get rid of the right wing trolls??
Comment by JPark — December 7, 2006 @ 11:22 pm
December 7th, 2006 at 11:32 pmYeah but then no one would be deflecting from me. See with alternatives like him, my ideas don’t look so bad.
Wow -your all really weird…
December 7th, 2006 at 11:35 pmTundra, we do but please reconsider the view on business. It isn’t healthy to have unregulated greed.
Things wouldn’t be fun without trolls for me, I guess.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:35 pm#92 Actually Zooey, I am not sure what I would do with myself without trolls. It is my me time.
Comment by JPark — December 7, 2006 @ 11:29 pm
Cheaper than therapy and keeps health costs down.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:35 pmI will take McCain over this shyster any day of the week.
http://www.lcrga.com/archive/200010251159.shtml
And I`m a liberal.
Imagine that.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:36 pmI’ve used up my allotment of wisdom for the day.
— Zooey
Usually ignore them or in some cases show them for what they are, totally destroy their points and they poof, run away.
Late night trolls are usually either children or drunk right wing fanatics that post so much crap and then get banned and deleted.
Hard to believe someone not drunk or a little child could be so stupid hahaha.
Thats my theory at least =)
I think they make fine examples of the 30 percenters for the world to see and laugh at.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:36 pmAngie, dude, your crossdressing is getting in the way of your trolling. Yes…you really are a queen.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:36 pmWow, lonnie just used the same post as angie/tim. Guess it is angie/tim/lonnie now.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:39 pmThanks Wayne, they sure are fun, though,.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:40 pm#99 Just so you know it is you’re (don’t really care but I don’t much like you so I figured I would needle you).
December 7th, 2006 at 11:41 pmActually Zooey, I am not sure what I would do with myself without trolls. It is my me time.
Comment by JPark
As long as you’re happy, I guess. But it only encourages them to ruin these threads.
Thanks anyway, Wayne! It was very fine wisdom.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:43 pmHey Wayne, Zooey isn’t 3 years old dumb-ass…
Comment by ren
Quit being a prick, ren. You’re better than that.
Read further back in the comments to see where I asked Wayne for his wisdom.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:44 pmYeah but then no one would be deflecting from me. See with alternatives like him, my ideas don’t look so bad.
—- Tundra
hahaha, good one
And I will still debate you on the facts if I think your wrong =)
Thank you Wayne for the consistancy you have always shown.
Your welcome. Anytime.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:44 pmTundra, we do but please reconsider the view on business. It isn’t healthy to have unregulated greed.
Absolutes are bad in general. Because the same token completly regulated business isn’t healthy either. So let’s start in the middle and I’ll push for less and you can push for more :)
If people don’t care enough to vote with their feet, why should I care enough to defend them? Our country was founded on people standing up for what they believe in and fighting for it. If someone hates Wal-Mart they shouldn’t shop there. They should also mount a campaign to get their friends/neighbors not to shop there. They can stand in front of the store and picket their benefit packages, make it known about the low amount of American Made goods they have. Expecting the government to save you just results in the government getting more involved in your life. It’s like wiretapping, enough people yelled that the government didn’t do enough to prevent 9-11. The government said “Well, what can we do to protect these poor people”. Ahhh we know better we can tape all calls to protect them because they didn’t do anything themselves (report activity etc)
December 7th, 2006 at 11:48 pmZooey – the Rune for the day, drawn especially for the trolls is:
Family: Reversed.
They’re sort of like that oddball relative at reunions…the one nobody want’s to hang around, but shows up every single year…
December 7th, 2006 at 11:49 pmAnd I will still debate you on the facts if I think your wrong =)
Wouldn’t have it any other way.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:50 pm#115 I am all for that Tundra!! I figured since you are a libertarian you were for unfettered robber-barony. Good to know you aren’t. Have a good night.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:50 pmangie/tim/lonnie 2 parts man, one part woman. I would tell you to Cheney yourself but I am afraid I would have to watch while you did it.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:52 pmBut it only encourages them to ruin these threads.
Thanks anyway, Wayne! It was very fine wisdom.
Comment by Zooey — December 7, 2006 @
Or…………..OUT YOU as the lesbian that you ARE
Barney Frank Rule is in session here zooey!!
Fess up.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:52 pmTundra > WalMart has protestors arrested if they stand in front of their stores, but yes Americans should do more but kinda hard when Bush calls dissenters terrorists and such!
December 7th, 2006 at 11:52 pmloonie james – get a life.
Those two parted ways long ago:
“Gore has earned Phelps’ ire because, according to Phelps, his son ’sold his soul to the fag agenda.’”
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1999/03/lauerman.html
December 7th, 2006 at 11:53 pmFamily: Reversed.
They’re sort of like that oddball relative at reunions…the one nobody want’s to hang around, but shows up every single year…
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Exactly why I avoid family reunions. :)
Thanks for not drawing that for me. Really…
December 7th, 2006 at 11:53 pmGoodnight, ren.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:55 pmAngie, speaking purely as a shaman capable of looking into one’s soul, I can attest that Zooey is definitely not a lesbian.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:56 pmComment by ren — December 7, 2006 @ 11:57 pm
strap-on, strap-off….the strapper!
December 7th, 2006 at 11:59 pmAngie, speaking purely as a shaman capable of looking into one’s soul, I can attest that Zooey is definitely not a lesbian.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Thanks, friend. Goodnight.
December 7th, 2006 at 11:59 pm“glad they got that Study Group together,
December 8th, 2006 at 12:03 ambut the test was 3 years ago…”
(paraphrasing) – jon stewart
WalMart has protestors arrested if they stand in front of their stores
I certinally wouldn’t advocate aresting any protestor (Provided they were on company/state land and not Wal-Marts property)
Bush calls dissenters terrorists and such!
The word has been sadly cheapened because of overuse. If you are a protestor you are a terrorist, if your company didn’t send my rebate quick enough you guys are terrorists. Yes Bush did help weaken the word so much that the real terrorists are considered misunderstood.
Heck let’s start a nifty little campaign against Wal-Mart. We come up with a slogan WEDEE (Wal-Mart Employees Don’t Earn Enough) but we don’t tell anyone what it actually stands for. Then everyday we try and get one person to each Wal-Mart location for 30 minutes (All of them same time 5-5:30 or something). They get all required permits and stand out front with a sign WEDEE. Nothing more.
The hype will begin to build until it is nationwide news. Everytime someone is asked they say nothing but point at the sign. Finally let the cat out of the bag and more publicity. Perhaps then they carry coupons from other retailers in the area and as people come to them they offer them up.
I don’t know just throwing something out there
December 8th, 2006 at 12:06 amTundra sounds good to me, because I dislike WalMart corporation. Vermont has refused to allow WalMart to build super-stores there, so other states and towns should fight them too.
December 8th, 2006 at 12:12 amSorry about being belligerent
Sorry if I offended anyone
Comment by ren — December 7, 2006 @ 11:52 pm
Thank you ren!
December 8th, 2006 at 12:21 amWe have the most transparent troll with its hoaxes tonight. Jeeeesh. Not even inventful enough to change its words when posting under different names.
“You’re a little touched, ya know, Angie baby.” ” livin in a world of make believe…..”
December 8th, 2006 at 12:52 amJay, I did some looking after you mentioned Vermont and came across this article. I thought it was worth the read.
http://vtcommons.org/node/170
And there are more interesting things we could try yet. I was in Wyoming this summer—not liberal Vermont, but conservative Wyoming, in a county that voted 4:1 for President Bush. But the people of that county decided that when a Wal-Mart moved in twenty miles away, they were not simply going to shutter their downtown and give up. The found a thousand citizens who kicked in $500 apiece to start their own community dry goods store. It looks like the kind of clothing store that any of us who grew up in small towns remembers. Racks of jeans and shirts hanging from metal rods—nothing fancy. But it’s doing well, and so are the surrounding stores and cafés and bakeries. Similar community ventures are going into other towns in Wyoming and Nevada and Montana.
Now that’s a heck of an idea. That’s the way to fight against Wal-Mart and it requires no government interference.
December 8th, 2006 at 12:53 amTimetable for Iraq progress or pullout = Waltmart activism = Al Gore innuendo = What kind of a meandering thread is this?
Heck’va job hijackers.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:01 amglobal warming? big deal.they are gonna put colonies of humans in
space in about 20 years,and with all the money I made in both
Bush`s terms I expect I will be on that shuttle bus to the sky.
Back to work you govt. mules!!
The more you work the more I make!Keep working for my safety in
about 20 years.I will see ya there!!
Or maybe not if you don`t have enough moolah!
Oh well no matter I do and that is all that counts.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:12 amA LOCAL GROUP, gathering MONEY and SPENDING IT COMMUNALLY – IS GOVERNMENT!!
No, that was an example of 1000 people going in on a business together. See I realize this may be hard for you to realize but that community had more than 1000 people in it.
See those 1000 people were banking on the fact that they could get away with higher prices, by paying better wages and having the personal touch. See a government would represent all the people where as a business wouldn’t. I understand the concept can be difficult for you to grasp with your affliction and all, but we can work on it slowly.
Then again I guess in your world it could be said shareholders govern over a business so therefore are government. So if the government institution of Microsoft and the government institution of Cisco are working on merging certain aspects of their “Businesses”, you aren’t governed by those bodies it means squat to you. Which is how much influence you alone would have over Wal-Mart. Unless you wanted to run to the Federal Government and whine that there was a problem because you lacked the intelligence to find another way to compete.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:16 amTimetable for Iraq progress or pullout = Waltmart activism = Al Gore innuendo = What kind of a meandering thread is this?
Heck’va job hijackers.
Comment by Eargy Earp — December 8, 2006 @ 1:01 am
Well yeah but most people want us out now, defending a report that says in a year isn’t a good way to gather points around here.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:18 amWhy Americans Hate Democrats — A Dialog
Just because it is such a damned good piece of writing, the following is an exerpt from Jane Smiley’s seminal piece in Slate Magazine:
The reason the Democrats have lost five of the last seven presidential elections is simple: A generation ago, the big capitalists, who have no morals, as we know, decided to make use of the religious right in their class war against the middle class and against the regulations that were protecting those whom they considered to be their rightful prey—workers and consumers. The architects of this strategy knew perfectly well that they were exploiting, among other unsavory qualities, a long American habit of virulent racism, but they did it anyway, and we see the outcome now—Cheney is the capitalist arm and Bush is the religious arm. They know no boundaries or rules. They are predatory and resentful, amoral, avaricious, and arrogant. Lots of Americans like and admire them because lots of Americans, even those who don’t share those same qualities, don’t know which end is up. Can the Democrats appeal to such voters? Do they want to? The Republicans have sold their souls for power. Must everyone?
Progressives have only one course of action now: React quickly to every outrage—red state types love to cheat and intimidate, so we have to assume the worst and call them on it every time. We have to give them more to think about than they can handle—to always appeal to reason and common sense, and the law, even when they can’t understand it and don’t respond. They cannot be allowed to keep any secrets. Tens of millions of people didn’t vote—they are watching, too, and have to be shown that we are ready and willing to fight, and that the battle is worth fighting. And in addition, we have to remember that threats to democracy from the right always collapse. Whatever their short-term appeal, they are borne of hubris and hatred, and will destroy their purveyors in the end.
Although it originally appeared shortly after the last election, I think the article is so fundamentally honest and insightful that it bears dissemination until every American has read it. You can read the whole thing here.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:42 amWhy Americans Hate Democrats — A Dialog
Just because it is such a damned good piece of writing, the following is an exerpt from Jane Smiley’s seminal piece in Slate Magazine:
The reason the Democrats have lost five of the last seven presidential elections is simple: A generation ago, the big capitalists, who have no morals, as we know, decided to make use of the religious right in their class war against the middle class and against the regulations that were protecting those whom they considered to be their rightful prey—workers and consumers. The architects of this strategy knew perfectly well that they were exploiting, among other unsavory qualities, a long American habit of virulent racism, but they did it anyway, and we see the outcome now—Cheney is the capitalist arm and Bush is the religious arm. They know no boundaries or rules. They are predatory and resentful, amoral, avaricious, and arrogant. Lots of Americans like and admire them because lots of Americans, even those who don’t share those same qualities, don’t know which end is up. Can the Democrats appeal to such voters? Do they want to? The Republicans have sold their souls for power. Must everyone?
Progressives have only one course of action now: React quickly to every outrage—red state types love to cheat and intimidate, so we have to assume the worst and call them on it every time. We have to give them more to think about than they can handle—to always appeal to reason and common sense, and the law, even when they can’t understand it and don’t respond. They cannot be allowed to keep any secrets. Tens of millions of people didn’t vote—they are watching, too, and have to be shown that we are ready and willing to fight, and that the battle is worth fighting. And in addition, we have to remember that threats to democracy from the right always collapse. Whatever their short-term appeal, they are borne of hubris and hatred, and will destroy their purveyors in the end.
Although it originally appeared shortly after the last election, I think the article is so fundamentally honest and insightful that it bears dissemination until every American has read it. You can read the whole thing here.
http://www.slate.com/id/2109218/
December 8th, 2006 at 1:44 amWhy Americans hate Bush and Republicans:
Bush lied about the connection between Iraq and 9/11 and the WMD’s in IRAQ, although Bush’s father sold Saddam chemical weapons back in the 80’s and taught him how to gas Iranians against Geneva convention protocols. 9/11 occurred under Bush’s watch despite warnings passed on from the Clinton administration. Bush and his PNAC Cronies needed a “cataclysmic event” the likes of a “second pearl harbor” in order to justify invading and occupying Iraq. Iraq is the 2nd largest oil producing country in the world. The Bush/Cheney Cabal desperately want control of that Iraqi oil and they want to keep making big money from defense contracts. 2 for the price of 1. The American people were fooled and taken advantage of because of our frustration over 9/11 resulting in trillions of tax dollars being siphoned and spent on big war contracts instead of American families. But Americans are realizing that Bush allowed 9/11 to occur, ignoring all the reports leading up to that event. The American people are tired of being lied to. This is why we overwhelmingly turned out on November 7th and will do so again in 2008. And we will continue to throw out of office anyone that supports the Bush/Cheney oil and war profit monopoly. To do anything less would be “UNAMERICAN.”
December 8th, 2006 at 2:12 amRCOW
You know absolutely nothing about diplomacy and international affairs.
Keep beating your drum about “bushdidit” someplace else
example:
The American people were fooled and taken advantage of because of our frustration over 9/11 resulting in trillions of tax dollars being siphoned and spent on big war contracts instead of American families.
since WHEN did America become a free WELFARE state?
American families need to go out and get a JOB!
December 8th, 2006 at 2:19 amI wonder whether it would be considered “progressive” or “progress” to figure out what the job of the White House spokesperson is after 6 years.
You often post stories about religious leaders. Why none pointing out that they continually refer to the existance of an interventionist god despite all evidence to the contrary and nothing to support this assertion ?
Sure it’s their job to avoid disagreement with their superiors on matters like that but after all, here’s yet another story about the press secretary failing to disagree with the President.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:55 am#154 Corporate Welfare State / Outsourcing America
since WHEN did America become a free WELFARE state?
Comment by pickles — December 8, 2006 @ 2:19 am
Since the Outstanding Public Debt as of 08 Dec 2006 at 08:32:02 AM GMT is
$8, 657, 625, 614, 232.10
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $2.16 billion per day since September 29, 2006!
The estimated population of the United States is 300,413,647
so each citizen’s share of this debt is $28,819.02. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
“Each year, U.S. taxpayers subsidize U.S. businesses to the tune of almost $125 billion, the equivalent of all the income tax paid by 60 million individuals and families. These corporations receive a wide range of favors: special corporate tax breaks; direct government subsidies to pay for advertising, research and training costs; and incentives to pursue overseas production and sales. While Congress institutes dramatic cuts in funding for traditional support programs for individuals and families, corporate giants continue to live off the dole. Each dollar spent on these “aid for dependent corporations” welfare programs means one dollar less for environmental programs, support for education, assistance to those in need, tax breaks for families, or deficit reduction. Public Citizen is helping to lead a major push to reduce corporate welfare.” http://www.citizen.org/congress/welfare/index.cfm
Military Waste & Fraud: $172 billion/year: Take the Rich Off Welfare
American families need to go out and get a JOB!
Comment by pickles — December 8, 2006 @ 2:19 am
What job?
The outsourcing of America’s jobs
“Today, consistent with economic globalization policies, corporate America is either importing less-costly immigrant labor or shipping jobs out of America and into underdeveloped countries, where profits can be maximized. Jobs are being taken out of the U.S., while President Bush is busy telling Americans that they will see more jobs.”
“Millions of employees are being threatened with the loss of homes, cars and medical benefits. Several companies have been forced into bankruptcy as a result of not being able to compete with the movement of manufacturing businesses, from electronics to furniture, to China. According to the August 25, 2003 Financial Times, China is becoming the leading location for foreign investment, attracting $52.7 billion. Workers are being paid 50 cents an hour, which American industry cannot compete with. The American Textile Manufacturers Institute has pointed out that textiles from Communist China and Vietnam are flooding the American market. In 2008, all import quotas on Chinese textiles will be removed and the Chinese will completely dominate the market.”
“Since 1992, as many as 760,000 jobs have been lost due to the U.S.-China trade deficit. A comparative number of jobs have been sent to Mexico.”
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_1137.shtml
December 8th, 2006 at 4:14 amOff topic…..Today the media is reporting that US troops killed 20 al qeada millitants. Interesting how we havent heard about al qeada lately untill bush once again uses them as a boogeyman. This manchild has gone from dangerous to cancerous……scapel please.
December 8th, 2006 at 6:12 amPersonally, I wish that Paul Krugman had written about his nasty little experience with Neil Cavuto. But I’m glad that he decided to write about people saying they told you so.
December 8th, 2006 at 6:33 amI think to keep the situation amicable till the force withdraws the US Army should take up some confidence building measures, by helping local people and taking community building measures and using the PR machinery to depict the same in popular and Iraqi media.
December 8th, 2006 at 6:41 amHow many more oceans of blood and treasure must be spilled in Iraq for the sake of a fundamentalist Islamic Republic?
I’d like to know right now if the cowardly Trolls are willing to give up his/her life/arm/eye/etc for the sake of an Shiite theocracy led by the `Death to America’ chanting Al Sadr, Al Dawa (Al-Maliki), and Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (Al-Hakim):
Mister Death Squad Goes to Washington
by Ahmed Amr
Sunday December 3, 2006
[snip]
To get a measure of the man, you need to see past Hakim’s wardrobe. This guy is more than a religious missionary. He’s certainly no ordinary politician. You can’t even consider him a military man – although he was the leader of the Badr Brigades – the military wing of the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq – SCIRI. Still, he’s so much more than that. The source of his political clout is his control over the Shiite death squads that have infiltrated the American-trained security forces.
And there’s more to recommend this man for the task of getting “the job done.†The death squads under Al Hakim’s command aren’t your run of the mill assassins. They usually leave their signature on their victims before grinding them up. Al Hakim’s dedicated cadres like to drill holes in other people’s skulls before dumping the mutilated cadavers on Baghdad’s streets as a warning to any real or potential adversaries.
Bush surrenders Iraq to Maliki’s death squads
by Ahmed Amr
Saturday November 4, 2006
[snip]
The Prime Minister is the defacto chairman of the death squads – a radical partisan leader who is out to insure Shia supremacy in the new Iraq. Maliki, Bayan Jabr and Moqtada Sadr are cut of the same ideological cloth. They are men who have spent a lifetime in the quest to convert Iraq into a Shia theocracy – by any means necessary.
Iraq: Bush’s Islamic Republic
By Peter W. Galbraith
[snip]
Real power in Shiite Iraq rests, however, with two religious parties: Abdel Aziz al-Hakim’s Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and the Dawa (”Call,” in English) of Iraq’s Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari. Of the two, SCIRI is the more pro-Iranian.
[snip]
SCIRI and Dawa want Iraq to be an Islamic state. They propose to make Islam the principal source of law, which most immediately would affect the status of women. For Muslim women, religious law—rather than Iraq’s relatively progressive civil code—would govern personal status, including matters relating to marriage, divorce, property, and child custody. A Dawa draft for the Iraqi constitution would limit religious freedom for non-Muslims, and apparently deny such freedom altogether to peoples not “of the book,” such as the Yezidis (a significant minority in Kurdistan), Zoroastrians, and Bahais.
This program is not just theoretical. Since Saddam’s fall, Shiite religious parties have had de facto control over Iraq’s southern cities. There Iranian-style religious police enforce a conservative Islamic code, including dress codes and bans on alcohol and other non-Islamic behavior. In most cases, the religious authorities govern—and legislate—without authority from Baghdad, and certainly without any reference to the freedoms incorporated in Iraq’s American-written interim constitution—the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL).
[Keywords: Iraq, Islamic fundamentalists, Islamic fundamentalism, Shiite fundamentalists, Al Sadr, Al-Maliki, Al-Hakim, Bayan Jabr, Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, SCIRI, Al Dawa, Death Squads]
December 8th, 2006 at 8:39 amre: #143 The winner signs the oil contract
Question for Trolls
How many more oceans of blood and treasure must be spilled in Iraq for the sake of a fundamentalist Islamic Republic?
Comment by goodscarrier — December 8, 2006 @ 8:39 am
Do you honestly believe anyone supporting the war in Iraq cares which religion prevails? The side that will prevail will be the side that supports an exclusive oil deal with Bush/Cheney.
RCOW said it best…
#136 Why Americans hate Bush and Republicans:
Bush lied about the connection between Iraq and 9/11 and the WMD’s in IRAQ, although Bush’s father sold Saddam chemical weapons back in the 80’s and taught him how to gas Iranians against Geneva convention protocols. 9/11 occurred under Bush’s watch despite warnings passed on from the Clinton administration. Bush and his PNAC Cronies needed a “cataclysmic event†the likes of a “second pearl harbor†in order to justify invading and occupying Iraq. Iraq is the 2nd largest oil producing country in the world. The Bush/Cheney Cabal desperately want control of that Iraqi oil and they want to keep making big money from defense contracts. 2 for the price of 1. The American people were fooled and taken advantage of because of our frustration over 9/11 resulting in trillions of tax dollars being siphoned and spent on big war contracts instead of American families. But Americans are realizing that Bush allowed 9/11 to occur, ignoring all the reports leading up to that event. The American people are tired of being lied to. This is why we overwhelmingly turned out on November 7th and will do so again in 2008. And we will continue to throw out of office anyone that supports the Bush/Cheney oil and war profit monopoly. To do anything less would be “UNAMERICAN.â€
Comment by Republican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly — December 8, 2006 @ 2:12 am
December 8th, 2006 at 8:56 am“Orders for General …., Commander, US Troops. Iraq,…
Comment by DonD
While this is a very nice fantasy to have you have absolutely no idea about the logistical implications. I will tell you that trying to have all the forces home by Valentines Day (’07) would be nothing short of impossible. In 2003 when we initially started to pull out of Iraq (before everything went to complete hell), it took the Marine Corps 7+months to “retrograde” all out equipment out of theater. That is with several thousand Marines working 24 hours a day.
Now, if you were to say Valentines Day 2008, maybe. But it would still be a stretch considering all the equipment and infrastructure we have built to support operations over there.
December 8th, 2006 at 9:14 am[...] Read the rest of this story at thinkprogress.org [...]
December 8th, 2006 at 9:29 am#52Now, how would you feel if you were taken prisoner by a foreign power, held and tortured for years without ever getting so much as a hearing. That’s what we’re doing to citizens of other countries.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Funny you should mention this. I seem to remember some Americans being held for 444 days in Iran and not one “Human Rights Group” did a thing about it. These people were guilty of nothing more than being American. I still have yet to hear ANYONE in the HR world condemn Iran for that or for calling for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth, or Ahmadinejad saying the Holocaust did not happen, or Irans support of Hezbollah, etc.
December 8th, 2006 at 9:31 am#134, DemPopulist vs RepublicanMonopolists: Do you honestly believe anyone supporting the war in Iraq cares which religion prevails?
Which religion prevails?
HINT: My post concerns the oceans of blood and treasure being spilled for a Shia theocracy. How many thousands of people need to be maimed or killed for the sake of a fundamentalst Islamic govt which the US will have to fight again later on ? How many hundreds of billions of dollars need to be wasted for the sake of a fundamentalst Islamic govt which the US will have to fight again later on ?
#134, DemPopulist vs RepublicanMonopolists: The side that will prevail will be the side that supports an exclusive oil deal with Bush/Cheney.
An exclusive oil deal with Bush/Cheney?
Huh?
Ever heard of Lukoil, China National Petroleum Corporation, and TotalFinaElf ?
As shown by the ISG report, the oil in Iraq is far from the greedy hands of the white trash oil executives in the USA.
December 8th, 2006 at 10:26 amre: #138 Iraq Study Group outlines Bush/Cheney strategy for control of Iraqi oil
Goodscarrier, I agree with DemPopulist. The civil war in Iraq is merely a means to keep out oil competitors while the US backs the side that agrees to amend the Iraqi constitution for the privatization of Iraqi oil. Bush/Cheney and their friends in the oil industry don’t care which faction they have to deal with in Iraq, as long as that faction can guarantee an oil amendment to the Iraqi constitution and unrestricted access to Iraqi oil for Bush/Cheney. I think the issue regarding the “shea theocracy” is merely a smoke screen clouding the real issues surrounding an oil driven agenda.
On the point of “the oil in Iraq is far from the greedy hands of the white trash oil executives in the USA”, I would say this is the reason the US continues to occupy Iraq and will continue to occupy Iraq until its guaranteed that the “white trash oil executives” have unrestricted access to Iraqi oil. The Iraq study group published a report saying as much. Here are some exerpts from today’s article in the LA times. I recommend you read the entire article.
It’s still about oil in Iraq
Chapter 1 of the Iraq Study Group report lays out Iraq’s importance to its region, the U.S. and the world with this reminder: “It has the world’s second-largest known oil reserves.”
“It states in plain language that the U.S. government should use every tool at its disposal to ensure that American oil interests and those of its corporations are met.”
“It’s spelled out in Recommendation No. 63, which calls on the U.S. to “assist Iraqi leaders to reorganize the national oil industry as a commercial enterprise” and to “encourage investment in Iraq’s oil sector by the international community and by international energy companies.” This recommendation would turn Iraq’s nationalized oil industry into a commercial entity that could be partly or fully privatized by foreign firms.”
“This is a crucial issue, with trillions of dollars at stake, because only 17 of Iraq’s 80 known oil fields have been developed. Recommendation No. 26 of the Iraq Study Group calls for a review of the constitution to be “pursued on an urgent basis.” Recommendation No. 28 calls for putting control of Iraq’s oil revenues in the hands of the central government. Recommendation No. 63 also calls on the U.S. government to “provide technical assistance to the Iraqi government to prepare a draft oil law.”
This last step is already underway. The Bush administration hired the consultancy firm BearingPoint more than a year ago to advise the Iraqi Oil Ministry on drafting and passing a new national oil law.”
It doesn’t sound like the oil in Iraq is so far from the “greedy hands of the white trash oil executives in the USA” afterall…
December 8th, 2006 at 12:11 pm#139, Republican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly: The civil war in Iraq is merely a means to keep out oil competitors while the US backs the side that agrees to amend the Iraqi constitution for the privatization of Iraqi oil.
The civil war in Iraq is merely a means to keep out oil competitors?
Well, obviously China is moving fwd despite that (see below). Do you know of any contracts signed by US companies?
Ahmed Chalabi is long gone. Since he is gone and there is no longer a stooge, American companies are not having exclusive rights to the oil. Thus the concern expressed in the ISG report.
Hussain al-Shahristani is not a stooge of the USA. He’s a member of the United Iraqi Alliance which is dominated by the two major Shia parties, Prime Minister Al-Maliki’s Islamic Dawa Party, and al-Hakim’s Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI). These groups have been trying to make Iraq a Shiite fundamentalist republic for the last twenty years: They are not pro-American. They are pro-Hezbollah, pro-Iranian, etc.
Here:
Iraq, China to revive 1997 oil deal
Associated Press
BEIJING – China and Iraq are reviving a $1.2 billion deal signed by Beijing and Saddam Hussein’s government in 1997 to develop an Iraqi oil field, Baghdad’s oil minister said Saturday.
Officials will meet next month to renegotiate the agreement over the al-Ahdab field, said Iraqi Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani. He was wrapping up a three-nation tour to secure investment for Iraq’s oil industry.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:00 pmre: #140 What Bush/Cheney are willing to do to anyone that doesn’t submit to Bush/Cheney Oil Interests.
Goodscarrier, I appreciate your position but as history has clearly shown, anyone that opposes the Bush/Cheney/Saudi Oil Cartel will be bombed and invaded into submission. This has been happening since the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, was installed by the US and British Oil interests back in the 50’s.
Oil nationalization and 1953 coup
“In the early 1950s, there was a political crisis centered in Iran that commanded the focused attention of British and American intelligence outfits. In 1951, the Iranian parliament, under the leadership of the nationalist movement of Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh, voted unanimously to nationalize the oil industry. This shut out the immensely profitable Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), which was a pillar of Britain’s economy and political clout. A month after that vote, Mossadegh was named Prime Minister of Iran.”
“In response to nationalization, Britain placed a massive embargo on Iranian oil exports, which only worsened the already fragile economy. Neither the AIOC nor Mossadegh was open to compromise in this period, with Britain insisting on a restoration of the AIOC and Mossadegh only willing to negotiate on the terms of its compensation for lost assets.”
“Under the direction of Kermit Roosevelt Jr.’s (a senior CIA officer and grandson of the former U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt), the CIA and British intelligence funded and led a coup d’etat to overthrow the democratically elected prime minister with the help of military forces loyal to the Shah through Operation Ajax.”
“The deposed Mossadegh was arrested, given a show trial, and placed in solitary confinement for three years in a military prison, followed by house arrest for life. Zahedi was installed to succeed Prime Minister Mossadegh.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi
Does this sound familiar? I appreciate your point about Hussain al-Shahristani not being a “stooge” but if he doesn’t play ball with Bush/Cheney and agree to their oil contract privatization and constitutional amendment, they’ll take him out. There are only two reasons the Bush/Cheney are in Iraq, Oil and big Defense Contracts of which Bush/Cheney’s companies have exclusive rights to. 2 Billion dollars a week it being spent on Iraq and this amount will no doubt increase until Bush/Cheney are out of office. I know your concerns are with the factions involved in Iraq but the US, Republicans in particular, historically support the most tyranical leaders abroad as long as they support US, British, and Saudi oil interests. Keep in mind that Britain is struggling to maintain supremacy in the European union and Saudi Arabia pretty monopolizes the market on oil as long as Iraqi oil sits in the ground or they have partnership rights when this deal goes through.
My gut feeling on all this pro american/anti american sentiment among the factions resulting in conflict in Iraq is merely a smoke screen to conceal the war for oil. I also believe that Bush/Cheney wanted a conflict between Hezbollah and Israel to continue to ensue in order to continue the destabaliziation of the region. China and Russia’s plans to build an oil pipeline through Afghanistan into Iraq were completely disrupted because of the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq. I believe Bush/Cheney’s people were disappointed that the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel ended so quickly and why they sat back and basically did nothing to help mediate peace in the region. Hezbollah and the people of Israel and all these factions fighting amongst themselves are getting played by Bush/Cheney…its really tragic.
December 8th, 2006 at 7:18 pm#141, Republican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly: I appreciate your position but as history has clearly shown, anyone that opposes the Bush/Cheney/Saudi Oil Cartel will be bombed and invaded into submission. This has been happening since the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, was installed by the US and British Oil interests back in the 50’s.
The US bombed and invaded whom into submission?
What precedent do you have in mind specifically?
That is to say, in the history of the USA, when exactly did the US bomb, invade, and take the oil from a ME country.
Obviously, the US did not do to Iran what it just did to Iraq.
You are also obviously ignorant as to who is holding the reins of power in Iraq.
The US is fuct: One the one side there is the Sunni Saddamists. One the other side there is the pro-Hezbollah, pro-Iranian Shia fundamentalists.
With the empowering of the Al Dawa (Al-Maliki) and the Supreme Council for the Islamic revolution of Iraq (sic!!), Iraq is basically a vassal state of Iran.
Iraq: Bush’s Islamic Republic
By Peter W. Galbraith
NYRB, Volume 52, Number 13 · August 11, 2005
Real power in Shiite Iraq rests, however, with two religious parties: Abdel Aziz al-Hakim’s Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and the Dawa (”Call,” in English) of Iraq’s Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari. Of the two, SCIRI is the more pro-Iranian. Both parties have military wings, and SCIRI’s Badr Corps has grown significantly from the five thousand fighters that harassed Saddam’s regime from Iran in the decades before the war; it now works closely with Iraq’s Shiite interior minister, until recently the corps’ commander, to provide security and fight Sunni Arab insurgents.
SCIRI and Dawa want Iraq to be an Islamic state. They propose to make Islam the principal source of law, which most immediately would affect the status of women. For Muslim women, religious law—rather than Iraq’s relatively progressive civil code—would govern personal status, including matters relating to marriage, divorce, property, and child custody. A Dawa draft for the Iraqi constitution would limit religious freedom for non-Muslims, and apparently deny such freedom altogether to peoples not “of the book,” such as the Yezidis (a significant minority in Kurdistan), Zoroastrians, and Bahais.
This program is not just theoretical. Since Saddam’s fall, Shiite religious parties have had de facto control over Iraq’s southern cities. There Iranian-style religious police enforce a conservative Islamic code, including dress codes and bans on alcohol and other non-Islamic behavior. In most cases, the religious authorities govern—and legislate—without authority from Baghdad, and certainly without any reference to the freedoms incorporated in Iraq’s American-written interim constitution—the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL).
Dawa and SCIRI are not just promoting an Iranian-style political system —they are also directly promoting Iranian interests.
December 8th, 2006 at 8:01 pm#141, Republican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly: I appreciate your point about Hussain al-Shahristani not being a “stooge†but if he doesn’t play ball with Bush/Cheney and agree to their oil contract privatization and constitutional amendment, they’ll take him out.
Take out Hussain al-Shahristani?
HINT: There is no pro-American politican within the United Iraqi Alliance
Mister Death Squad Goes to Washington
by Ahmed Amr
Sunday December 3, 2006
[snip]
To get a measure of the man, you need to see past Hakim’s wardrobe. This guy is more than a religious missionary. He’s certainly no ordinary politician. You can’t even consider him a military man – although he was the leader of the Badr Brigades – the military wing of the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq – SCIRI. Still, he’s so much more than that. The source of his political clout is his control over the Shiite death squads that have infiltrated the American-trained security forces.
And there’s more to recommend this man for the task of getting “the job done.†The death squads under Al Hakim’s command aren’t your run of the mill assassins. They usually leave their signature on their victims before grinding them up. Al Hakim’s dedicated cadres like to drill holes in other people’s skulls before dumping the mutilated cadavers on Baghdad’s streets as a warning to any real or potential adversaries.
Bush surrenders Iraq to Maliki’s death squads
December 8th, 2006 at 8:07 pmby Ahmed Amr
Saturday November 4, 2006
[snip]
The Prime Minister is the defacto chairman of the death squads – a radical partisan leader who is out to insure Shia supremacy in the new Iraq. Maliki, Bayan Jabr and Moqtada Sadr are cut of the same ideological cloth. They are men who have spent a lifetime in the quest to convert Iraq into a Shia theocracy – by any means necessary.
re: 142 & 143 Political smoke and mirrors obscuring the Bush/Cheney oil interests in the middle east
The US bombed and invaded whom into submission?
What precedent do you have in mind specifically?
Comment by goodscarrier — December 8, 2006 @ 8:01 pm
How do you explain this?
Lifting the Iraq Embargo After Almost 2 Million Deaths
On May 22, 2003, the United Nations Security Council passed resolution 1483 finally lifting the 12-year embargo on Iraq. The United Nations had imposed a comprehensive ban on trade with Iraq on August 6, 1990, under resolution 661, amounting to a complete siege on the country. The embargo was then enforced by a military land, air, and sea blockade. This blockade continued until the end of the recent 2003 war, with land border checkpoints in Jordan, naval interdiction of ships, and no-fly zones imposed in the north and south of the country.
After the imposition of the embargo, a devastating bombing campaign against Iraq in 1991 destroyed the country’s civilian infrastructure (water, sewage, and electrical power infrastructure, among other sectors). Much of the diseases rampant in Iraq are due to the destruction of the civilian infrastructure and lack of spare parts in the 1991 war. Some of which was modestly repaired between 1991 and 2003, was destroyed again in the 2003 war. Contaminated drinking water and lack of electricity for hospitals are a major cause of the suffering for Iraq’s twenty five million people today.
In addition, the depleted uranium (DU) shells used in both the 1991 and 2003 wars have caused a significant increase in radiation-related cancers and birth defects. Iraq still does not have the necessary tools (primarily due to the embargo) to clean up the DU contamination.”
3 million post-invasion excess deaths in Iraq & Afghanistan
“A top US medical epidemiological research group has recently published their estimate of 655,000 post-invasion Iraq excess deaths in the top medical journal The Lancet (October, 2006).”
“Using this latter figure for Iraq and a UN-derived estimate for Afghanistan, the post-invasion excess deaths in Occupied Iraq and Occupied Afghanistan total 0.9 million and 2.1 million, respectively – a total of 3.0 million deaths, 1,000 (one thousand) times the number of people murdered on 9/11.”
Real Shock & Awe: After 15 Years War, Sanctions over 1,000,000 Iraqis Dead
You are also obviously ignorant as to who is holding the reins of power in Iraq.
Comment by goodscarrier — December 8, 2006 @ 8:01 pm
That would be George Bush and Dick Cheney and I’m well aware that they have all the power that 14 US military bases and nearly 200,000 troops in Iraq can muster. You’re obviously ignorant to the genocide committed by Bush/Cheney and their cronies against the people of Iraq. How sad.
Goodscarrier you’ve obviously never served in the US military nor are you apparently capable of fathoming the firepower and destruction the US military is capable of when wielded by War Mongers and Oil Monopolists.
None of your so called terrorists in the middle east are capable of or responsible for the sheer death and destruction Bush/Cheney are directly responsible for. Anyone that believes otherwise is utterly naive.
December 8th, 2006 at 10:02 pm#144, Republican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly: You are also obviously ignorant as to who is holding the reins of power in Iraq. Comment by goodscarrier — December 8, 2006 @ 8:01 pm That would be George Bush and Dick Cheney and I’m well aware that they have all the power that 14 US military bases and nearly 200,000 troops in Iraq can muster.
Again, George Bush and Dick Cheney are not holding the reins of power. That is pure bullshit. I urge you to start reading.
If they are in control, why did Iraq’s parliament ignore Bush and Cheney and just recently pass a law that would allow the creation of autonomous Kurdish, Sunni and Shiite regions?
If they are in control, why is the Shiite south governed by the Shiite religious parties who enforce an Iranian-style Islamic law with militias ?
You have no idea how bad things are in Iraq.
You actually think America is in control.
This is why we are where we are today.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:49 pmNothing typifies blind naiveté and delusion than a president who invokes Nixon and yammers incessantly of leaving Iraq with honor. I’ve just one question: How the hell does one “honorably†leave a war that they did not start “honorably?†And on another note, the first two sentences to the Iraq Study Group Report reads as follows:
“There is no magic formula to solve the problems of Iraq. However,
there are actions that can be taken to improve the situation
and protect American interests.”
American interests.
No much mention of Iraqi interests, remember, the people who were supposed to benefit? I don’t know about you, but if an unenlightened guest came into my house, trampled my belongings, and expected me to clean up the mess in thanks for the “privilege†of their “good intentions,†I’d be more than a little reluctant to comply with their demands as well.
Meetings in Jordan? Yes, obvioulsy Iraq is secure. What a mess…some really do lead by example, don’t they?
December 9th, 2006 at 6:20 amIndeed Xenon. Bush/Cheney have no interest in promoting Iraqi interests. And to make matters worse, the various factions in the middle east, the Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites, for example, are doing exactly what Bush/Cheney want. Until these various factions throughout the middle east from Iran to Israel, realize they are all puppets and their division and strife assists those who seek to control the region, they will continue to be slaves to their own sense of ego and blind retribution.
Bush/Cheney only stand to benefit and gain from the ongoing conflict in the middle east. As long as that conflict continues, Bush/Cheney are in control. Can you imagine if all the peoples in the middle east came together…Kurds, Sunnis, Shiites, Iranians, Palestinians, Israelis…all at the same table, all suddenly realizing they must wash away the past and through peace, build a new middle east? Cheney/Bush would suddenly be powerless.
December 9th, 2006 at 11:27 amRepublican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly: I said Bush/Cheney are in control.
HINT: The US lost badly in Iraq. The pro-Iranian Shiite fundamentalist state in Iraq is not what Bush and Cheney planned for. Iran is the victor.
Plan Floated to Divide Iraq Along Ethnic Lines
PETER GALBRAITH: Our ability to influence events in Iraq is extremely limited. I see no purpose for a continued U.S. presence in the Shiite southern half of Iraq.
The New Middle East
Richard N. Haass
From Foreign Affairs, November/December 2006
Summary: The age of U.S. dominance in the Middle East has ended and a new era in the modern history of the region has begun.
“Iraq Is Not Winnable”
SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD HAASS
The old Middle East — an era which I believe has only recently ended — was one in which the United States enjoyed tremendous dominance and freedom of maneuver. [snip] It’s one of history’s ironies that the first war in Iraq, a war of necessity, marked the beginning of the American era in the Middle East and the second Iraq war, a war of choice, has precipitated its end.
IRAN’S GROWING POWER IN THE MIDDLE EAST
The Spider’s Web
By Georg Mascolo and Bernhard Zand
More people than ever are dying in Iraq while the United States looks on powerlessly. In the wake of its invasion of Lebanon, Israel is riven with self-doubt, while Europe tries to establish peace. But there is one country that is benefiting from every crisis in the region: Iran.
The Iranian nightmare
December 9th, 2006 at 12:11 pmBy Michael Schwartz
Now, over two years after Baghdad fell and the American occupation of Iraq began, Kagan’s prediction appears to have been fulfilled – in reverse. The chief beneficiary of the occupation and the chaos it produced has not been the Bush administration, but Iran, the most populous and powerful member of the “axis of evil” and the chief American competitor for dominance in the oil-rich region. As diplomatic historian Gabriel Kolko commented, “By destroying a united Iraq under [Saddam] Hussein … the US removed the main barrier to Iran’s eventual triumph.”
re: #149 Who’s losing BIG in the war in Iraq and who’s really winning BIG/strong>
HINT: The US lost badly in Iraq. The pro-Iranian Shiite fundamentalist state in Iraq is not what Bush and Cheney planned for. Iran is the victor.
Comment by goodscarrier — December 9, 2006 @ 12:11 pm
HINT: The people of Iraq having been dying in the millions. The infrastructure of Iraq has been utterly decimated.
HINT: The US tax payer is currently shelling out 2 billion per week to pay for an illegal war and occupation of Iraq. Much of the entitlement programs that were paid for with US tax dollars were destroyed as a result of the tax money diverted to Iraq.
HINT: George Bush and Dick Cheney are big time oil and defense guys that make billions upon billions of dollars in oil and defense contracts.
HINT: Every day that US forces continue to occupy Iraq, the Bush/Cheney cabal gets richer.
Ok…lets add up the hints here…
It looks like the losers in Iraq are the Iraqis and the American Tax payers.
It looks like the winners in Iraq are Bush and Cheney who are billions if not trillions of dollars richer as a result of their campaign.
I hate to break the news to you goodscarrier because I know you want to believe in the people killing eachother in the middle east and that their doing so is for a just cause…but at the end of the day, Bush and Cheney will continue to be wealthy beyond anyone’s wildest dreams while the people that fight and die in the middle east will do so for the crumbs that fall from the Bush/Cheney/PNAC/Haliburton/Carlyle Group table…They have already won the war in the middle east because their bank accounts are fuller than ever before.
Oil industry awash in record levels of cash
“ExxonMobil’s earnings announcement that profits rose 75 percent from last year followed a BP announcement of $6.5 billion in profits, up 34 percent and ConocoPhillips reporting its income grew to $3.8 billion, up 89 percent”
“Up to $US194 billion ($263 billion) in Iraqi oil revenues are going to multinational oil companies under long-term contracts, and not to the Iraqi people, a social and environmental group said.”
Bush’s Petro-Cartel Almost Has Iraq’s Oil
Wake up and smell the trail of money leading all the way to the banks of the real winners in Iraq. It leads all the way to Bush and Cheney and their Oil and Defense Cronies.
December 9th, 2006 at 5:05 pm#149, Republican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly
What sane person does not know/agree that Iraq is one of the gravest humanitarian crises?
Duh!!!
What sane person does not know/agree that oil companies are making unprecedented profits?
Duh!!!
#149, Republican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly: I know you want to believe in the people killing eachother in the middle east and that their doing so is for a just cause
Just cause?
F*ck you: I have never even though that. That is despicable to attribute that to someone.
From you own article which does not support you claim that the US is winning Bush’s Petro-Cartel Almost Has Iraq’s Oil (Part Two)
HINT: The US lost badly in Iraq and is losing ground throughout the ME.
NOTE: There’s not one serious paid ME expert that espouses your views which can only be cooked up under a tinfoil hat.
I am looking foward to the war criminals and profiteers being frogmarched into The Hague or some other court.
December 9th, 2006 at 6:36 pmRepublican Corporate Oil & War Machine Monopoly
The oil of Iraq is not in the hands of the USA. Note the word “almost” in the article you posted.
Most of the oil of Iraq is in the Kurdish and Shia regions. In the Iraqi Constitution, Article 108 states that “oil and gas are the ownership of all the peoples of Iraq in all the regions and governorates”.
What makes you think that Bush/Cheney are going to be able to rob them of this oil?
What makes you think that Bush/Cheney are going to be able to
convince the Shias to stab their Iranian brethren in the back as a favor to Bush/Cheney ?
Please, show the history of co-operation btw Shiite extremists and the USA.
This ought to be great!!
Again, the US is fuct.
It is a matter of time before the US is expulsed from Iraq with nothing but several hundred thousand bloodied bodies and $400+ billion in debt.
December 9th, 2006 at 6:59 pmre: 151 The Winners in Iraq: Bush/Cheney, War Profiteers, and Big Oil Richer than ever before.strong>
NOTE: There’s not one serious paid ME expert that espouses your views which can only be cooked up under a tinfoil hat.
Comment by goodscarrier — December 9, 2006 @ 6:36 pm
Try checking Bush & Cheney’s bank accounts before and after the war in Iraq.
I am looking foward to the war criminals and profiteers being frogmarched into The Hague or some other court.
Comment by goodscarrier — December 9, 2006 @ 6:36 pm
At least we finally agree on something. :)
But since you still don’t believe Bush, Cheney, the War Profiteers and Big Oil won the war in Iraq, take a look at the list of winners in 2004:
The Top Ten War Profiteers in 2004
December 9th, 2006 at 7:08 pmBush/Cheney/Big Oil/Big Defense won big in Iraq
“This is a crucial issue, with trillions of dollars at stake, because only 17 of Iraq’s 80 known oil fields have been developed.”
The oil of Iraq is not in the hands of the USA. Note the word “almost†in the article you posted.
Comment by goodscarrier — December 9, 2006 @ 6:59 pm
I tried to explain this earlier to you. They don’t need to pump oil out of Iraq to control the oil. The fact that the oil in Iraq remains in the ground means that Saudi Arabia is the primary source of oil in the world. This means they have a MONOPOLY on oil anc can artificially inflate prices at will claiming there is a shortage. This is very simple economics and can be easily understood if you grasp the concept of “Elasticity.” All the US has to do is block oil production in Iraq to control the oil in Iraq. They have been very successful at this thusfar.
Here’s the bottom line, Bush an Cheney have more money than ever since they invaded Iraq. This is a HUGE victory for them. Everyone with half a brain realizes that the only real losers in the war in Iraq are the Iraqi people and the American people that were sold a bill of goods by Bush/Cheney.
Even if the factions in the middle east somehow manage to thwart the Bush/Cheney occupation, the damage is done to Iraq and the US and the Bush/Cheney bank accounts are full.
December 9th, 2006 at 7:31 pmAll you bleeding heart liberals need to Sit Down and Shut Up!
This report is the biggest Waist of Time and foo-ha ever, if these are ‘great minds’ that put this report together then I am Albert Instein (Einstein).
Should we have gone in? That is a mute point, we are there now.
Was this war executed properly? NO, the government was too conserned with liberal bleeding hearts in America. War is ugly, War is Hell. America knows how to fight a war and it is Not done with a bunch of ’suit and tie’ political monkeys leading!
Iraq is country of people who themselves are not united as a people, they are a country of a hatred religion which is broken into dozens of little secs all following it in a different way. Any ‘peaceful’ people in Iraq are held hostage by brutal heathens who only know brute force, death, and torture – Saddam point one.
Now that liberals have failed and created a complete mess of this whole thing, there is ONLY way to bring it to a close, and it is much more messy then had we gone in properly the first time and leveled a few main cities.
Go ahead, “Get Out Now” – you think that will bring closure to the matter? You think that will end this? Then you are really really stupid, dumber then dumb, and you will die.
December 10th, 2006 at 11:39 amJeff, since you’re such a pro war guy, tell me why you’re not in Iraq as we speak. There are 60 year old grandmothers in Iraq. You sound like you’ve never served in the military because you take it so lightly. Put your ass on the front lines tough guy.
December 10th, 2006 at 12:30 pm