Americans Overwhelmingly Support Direct Talks With Iran And Syria
Filed Under: Iraq, International Relations
By on Dec 8th, 2006 at 10:34 am
Americans Overwhelmingly Support Direct Talks With Iran And Syria
One of the core recommendations of the Iraq Study Group was direct engagement with Iran and Syria without preconditions. President Bush quickly dismissed the idea:
If people come to the table to discuss Iraq they need to come understanding their responsibilities to not fund terrorists, to help this young democracy survive, to help with the economics of the country. And if people are not committed, if Syria and Iran is not committed to that concept, then they shouldn’t bother to show up.
The American people, however, overwhelmingly support direct talks with both countries. From a new poll by WorldPublicOpinion.org:
Check out the whole WorldPublicOpinon.org poll here.
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Yes, we do support the talks. However, the boy Chimperor cannot negotiate his way out of a paper bag.
December 8th, 2006 at 10:36 amYes, but most US Senators are bribed by Israel to not allow diplomacy with Iran and Syria! About half the members of the House of Representatives are compromised by Israel as well!
December 8th, 2006 at 10:42 amBush thinks the American people are stupid, so he’ll take this as confirmation that he’s right.
sigh…
December 8th, 2006 at 10:43 amThey work for us! They need to do what they’re damn well told. Get busy, and if you mess it up, your ass is on the front line.
December 8th, 2006 at 10:49 amWhether we americans think it’s a good idea or not is secondary to the fact that it is important to the region. Iran and Syria are already involved in Iraq.
Can’t remember who coined this phrase but it fits here “It’s better to have them inside the tent pissing out then outside pissing in”
December 8th, 2006 at 10:51 amIf Bush had taken diplomacy 101 we would have negotiated with them before the invasion! Unfortunately he was too busy cheerleading and snuffing cocaine.
#2 Jay,
If they are bribed by Israel, then likely it is with our own money, since we give so much financial support to the country.
December 8th, 2006 at 10:51 amDiscussions and discourse are always necessary. If the truth is involved, and people are willing to listen, then they allow for unconcealed honesty.
However, I think the prerequisite on each side is to recognized that no one is completely right, and each feels justified.
The first step to impasse is being inflexible, as I believe most politicians/diplomats/whatever are.
December 8th, 2006 at 10:51 amEven if the Bush regime wanted to talk with these countries, who could?
December 8th, 2006 at 10:54 amRice stutters & adds ‘ahhhs’ about every other word.
Bush can’t finish a complete sentence.
Bolton? gone
Rummy? gone
Cheney? Don’t even go there!
Hmmm, the Democrats can speak, how about Feingold?
OH NO! Bipartisanship! That would never work.
To this day I don’t know how OLd Bushies was re-elected for the second time.
The American people want us to talk to Iran and Syria which is a good idea. What every the American people want Bush does the opposite of what we want.
We need to break ties with Israel. They are the problem.
December 8th, 2006 at 10:55 amI read this morning that the Chimp gave permission for Baker to talk with Iran about working on the security issues in Iraq. So the president lets a retired political hack be the only political connection to Iran in a huge time of crisis while he sits back and refuses to have have direct talks between the two governments. Another half-assed attempt that won’t go anywhere. But I guess that’s what he wants.
December 8th, 2006 at 10:58 amThe Iranian president is by FAR the most intelligent man who would be at these talks. That isn’t going to help things any…….
December 8th, 2006 at 11:06 amDaddy Bush is back in the White House. It’s ok, maybe Bill will end up back in the white house as a stay at home dad.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:06 amI feel Isreal is perfectly capable of defending themselves.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:07 amAnyone see Baker yesterday? Lieberman complained that we can’t talk to Syria/Iran because they’ll be dicks and undermine us.
Baker came back: 16 years ago I persuaded Syria, terrorist baggage and all, to support us in Iraq. 4 years ago we got tacit support from Iran for Afghanistan. So don’t say we can’t do this again now.
And his overall posture was: Don’t you spineless maggots blame me for the fact we have no good options in Iraq. You don’t like what I’ve suggested?Fine. Stay the course. But it’s how you got us in this mess, and don’t try to pretend otherwise.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:08 amPretty hard to break ties with Israel when they are one of our biggest customers (of arms, since USA is one of the biggest producers).
December 8th, 2006 at 11:08 amWhat an ugly scene.
Well that’s got to be a big bummer for the communists at Redstate as well as for Israel.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:09 amPost 6 AshenShard > Yes Israel bribes our Congressional membership with our US aid money to them! Sweet deal because Israel gets a few billion yearly, then uses a few million to bribe our government! Strange relationship, but Americans must demand that it stop > PERIOD.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:11 amForTruth,
God if the Clintons get in office again, lord help us all. I can’t stand Hillary, I know why Bill was playing with Monica, cuz Hillary is such a pandering whore.
Stupid bitch was on her anti-video game rant yesterday while people in Iraq, well everywhere are dying by the 1000’s.
She’s WORSE than any GOP member with their anti-flag-gay-burning ammendments.
I would love to see a woman president, just not that skanky ho.
Bless Carter for having the courage to speak against Israel. Most blogs like this one don’t have the balls to speak of all the crimes Israel has done.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:15 amGeorge H.W. Bush has sent fear into the hearts of terrorists worldwide by his bold public display of weeping.
Tony Snow already wept publicly on his first day on the job.
Jeesh, what a pack of blubbering and wailing pansies.
-GSD
December 8th, 2006 at 11:17 amSo it’s OK for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth?
December 8th, 2006 at 11:17 amSo it’s OK for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth?
Comment by Kevin
I willl pick up the slack on your poor reading skills. NO.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:19 amKevin,
Sure, if their enemies can do it! Just as you feel it’s okay to go into Iraq and kill, and kill, and kill to establish our idea of govt there, which has failed, and will fail until those wacky religious fanatics can learn to live together, something we can barely do here.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:21 am#20 Kevin
No, it isn’t ok. But Israel shouldn’t be given a free pass to do whatever, and get whatever it wants at the expense of its neighbors and the Palestinian people.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:26 amAccording to Bush Syria and Iran have to cave before Syria and Iran come to the table. This rules out negotiations and promotes war which is, of course, the neo-con goal. The interesting thing about Bush’s statement is that it makes clear that despite this humongous disaster Bush is still on on his knees praying daily for more destruction.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:26 amSo we just went to Iraq to get our Kill on?
December 8th, 2006 at 11:27 amEven some Republicans see the benefits of having Iran as an ally rather than an enemy when it comes to Iraq.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:28 amIsrael is fully capable of defending themselves, because they have 200+ nuclear bombs, so not even Iran would be stupid enough to mess with them, but if Israel starts a war with Iran then the Iranians would try to fight back with everything they have including a nuke if they had one!
Diplomacy is the best option, because wars never solve anything, but cause massive destruction and slaughter of civilians!
December 8th, 2006 at 11:29 amSo we just went to Iraq to get our Kill on?
Comment by Kevin
Yes Kevin, you are catching on, very good, you get a smiley face. :)
December 8th, 2006 at 11:30 am#25
We went to Iraq because the boy king wanted to play soldier.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:31 amKevin,
Yah, are you stupid? (well you answer that with a big YES every day here with your Fuxnews, and Limpaugh talking points).
This is all about “Those islamofacists”, and oil of course.” We can’t have those islamofacists keeping the oil from the Christian-taliban. (dubya’s words, as well in the ISG)
December 8th, 2006 at 11:35 amThe US went into Iraq because the neo-cons gambled that the war would be a decisive defeat for US liberalism. The war was started for domestic reasons. The goal was a unitary Presidency, the crippling of civil rights, the crippling of US democracy and the creation of a security state. Cheney et al thought the war was going to be a cake walk. When this was added to the huge domestic ‘benefits’ Iraq was attacked.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:37 amSo it’s OK for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth?
Comment by Kevin
mmm, Kev, …last time I checked, it was Palestinians being wiped off by Israel.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:39 amI wonder if the French (60 years ago) would agree.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:44 amI wonder if we would be America if we keep talking it out with England.
I wonder if the French (60 years ago) would agree.
I wonder if we would be America if we keep talking it out with England.
Comment by Kevin
Kevin,
60 years ago there wasn’t a world full of nukes waiting to blow everyone up. 200 years ago, same thing.
It’s a different time now, we would rather try to avoid a nuclear detonation. And pissing off half the world with preemtive strikes, obviously ain’t workin’. See the ISG and anyone with half a brain.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:47 amLast I checked, any concession made by the ruling government is thanked with rockets in civilian villages.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:48 am33. I wonder if your knees are as brown as I think they are.
This military adventure was built up wrong, executed wrong and planned out wrong. We have lost all opportunities to turn it around.
Are options are we either start diplomatic relations with the entire region to get an Arab voice into the mix or we call for a draft and throw 250,000 more troops and 100’s of billions of dollars at this.
I choose the first.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:48 am“And if people are not committed, if Syria and Iran is not committed to that concept, then they shouldn’t bother to show up.” - g.w. bush
This is just one reason why I think he is stupid: verb - noun agreement.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:48 amKevin > do you want nuclear WWIII to start in the Middle East? Nukes could end up falling on the US too, so diplomacy is better option! A couple hundred years ago armies fought with muskets, and small cannons, but now wars can kill millions!
December 8th, 2006 at 11:51 am#33 Kevin
In WWII the French were bulldozed by the Germans because rather than conducting effective diplomacy, Europe caved to their every demand.
Also, before we started fighting the Revolution (or the War of the American Rebellion) and during the fighting there was vigorous diplomacy. Many of those in the Continental Congress didn’t want to seperate from Britain, and they did proffer an olive branch offering peace if the parliament would give them equal representation and reinstate rights that the colonies had enjoyed from the beginning. It was diplomacy that got the French in on our side .. and it was diplomacy that ended the war.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:53 am“The [Iraq] invasion has killed more innocent people than any other dictator”
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 08, 2006
Khedr Hussein, an Iraqi police major, said 32 people were killed at Ishaqi, 90km north of Baghdad. He said 32 civilians were believed to be inside and that of 25 bodies pulled so far from the rubble, eight were women and six children.
GET THE SHIT OUT OF IRAQ YOU MASS MURDERERS >>>> PRAISE TO THE INSURGENTS
December 8th, 2006 at 12:13 pmDon’t expect the Chimperor to listen to The People. As far as he is concerned, we are his subjects, therefore irrelevant to his Majesty’s decisions.
December 8th, 2006 at 12:16 pmIn a rejection of the ISG’s premise, Israel’s Prime Minister Olmert denies there’s any connection between Iraq and the Israel/Palestinian issue. In contrast, there have been statements by Islamist leaders that directly tie the Israeli/Palestinian issue to much of the anger and resultant terrorism. Joe Lieberman, when running for the Democratic presidential primary, had this to say:
Iraq victory opens door to Israeli-Palestinian peace
Q: What’s the correct road map now for Israel and the Palestinians?
LIEBERMAN: The overthrow and then capture of Saddam Hussein has made America safer and made the world safer. It has not ended all of our problems or all the threats to our security, but a president has to deal with more than one threat at a time. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is directly related. We have to stay the course in Iraq now and continue to build a stable, modernizing, democratizing country there. That will show the Arab world what happens as a result of American intervention, that you live better, freer lives, and will send a message to terrorists that we mean business.
Between the Israelis and the Palestinians, there is only one good solution, it is a two-state solution. As president, I would devote time, commit my secretary of state to it, appoint a special ambassador to be there to work with both sides to move along the path to peace. The doors are open now, in part because of our victory in Iraq.
http://www.issues2000.org/ 2004/ Joseph_Lieberman_War_+_Peace.htm
December 8th, 2006 at 12:23 pmBush has not learned one goddamn thing in his 6 years as president.
December 8th, 2006 at 12:24 pmPathetic.
#25 No, Kevin, we went to Iraq to maximize shareholder value for a small number of large energy companies and defense contractors, and, in that regard, the whole bloody mess has been a smashing success. It’s supremely ironic that the people who wouldn’t walk across the street to piss on you if you were on fire are the people you offer your support to. If you think, for even a second, that any of those people care one little bit whether you and your family lives, dies, or goes fishing, then you are, in fact, the most naive person in the world, and you have my sympathy.
December 8th, 2006 at 12:25 pmGET THE SHIT OUT OF IRAQ YOU MASS MURDERERS >>>> PRAISE TO THE INSURGENTS
Comment by Tobey Tall — December 8, 2006 @ 12:13 pm
Talk to your own government as well (British) about getting out. And praising the insurgents, who are killing YOUR people as well as ours, is hardly a way to get support of your position on this board. We don’t support the U.S. government’s policies on Iraq, but we sure as hell don’t support the other half of that killing field either.
December 8th, 2006 at 12:36 pmAmericans Overwhelmingly Support Direct Talks With Iran And Syria
But… but… that’s talking to terrorists and our Great (mis)Leader already said we don’t negotiate with terrorists…
Why do most Americans hate America?
December 8th, 2006 at 12:54 pmAnother of Kevin’s famous strawmen arguments. Bringing up Hitler???!!! OK, Kevin, here’s the deal: When a radical islamic cleric or leader commands a huge industrial capability, invades and annexes most of his part of the world, has a state-of-the art army and tank force and begins hearding people into concentration camps, then a comparison to Hitler will make some sense. Until then, it’s just a simple-minded strawman argument which shows a profound lack of appreciation for the dangers we faced before and during WWII.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:21 pmBush doesn’t believe in diplomacy. For him it’s “my way or no way”. After all, he’s the Decider (code word for wannabe dictator).
December 8th, 2006 at 1:33 pm51 Juan C, I’m not going to defend the brutal Israeli tactics. I especially didn’t like to hear about the use of shells that release depleted uranium. But every story has at least two sides. Please talk equally, and factor into your opinion making equally, the effects of several decades of suicide bombers blowing innocent Israelis to pieces. And please factor into your opinion making equally Israelis knowing that almost every neighboring country doesn’t believe you have the right to exist. That must be scary, especially considering the nightmare of the Holocaust born into the genetic coding of each of them.
From the surveys I see most Israelis are moderate and want to give up land to forge peace agreements. Trouble is, their government often doesn’t listen to the will of its citizens. Sound familiar?
As “progressives” and “independents” we are the thinking side of the political spectrum. We cannot let our emotions control our opinion/decision making. Otherwise we’re no better than the neo-cons.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:36 pmWhen a radical islamic cleric or leader commands a huge industrial capability, invades and annexes most of his part of the world, has a state-of-the art army and tank force and begins hearding people into concentration camps, then a comparison to Hitler will make some sense.
Comment by Bluedog49
Ouch, Kev, replace islamic with jewish and Bluedog is just describing Israel…
December 8th, 2006 at 1:39 pmThe biggest obstacle to solving the Iraq problem is that George Bush’s ego is tied to “winning” in Iraq. After all this is a man who is a failure at everything he’s ever done. He’s unable to “cut and run” from his legacy of failure.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:39 pmAs “progressives†and “independents†we are the thinking side of the political spectrum. We cannot let our emotions control our opinion/decision making. Otherwise we’re no better than the neo-cons.
Comment by Larry from C
Ok, Larry. Perhaps you are right. I dont support any action that kill or maim civilians.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:51 pmBut asking me to be fair about a conflict thats not fair at all is just wrong.
Juan, with all due respect, Israel has not used military force to annex and take over it’s neighbors. It has used its military to provide buffer zones around its borders and to control its Palestinian population. I find it difficult be an advocate for them, but I don’t think they deserve to be compared to the Nazi war machine.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:55 pmbut I don’t think they deserve to be compared to the Nazi war machine.
Comment by Bluedog49
What do you need in order to make that comparison? 6 million killed? Siemens ovens? Concentration camps?
December 8th, 2006 at 2:09 pmProposal for the New Middle East Security Alliance
From the FARS News Agency in Tehran, dated Dec 6:
December 8th, 2006 at 2:31 pmWhatever policy the Israelis put forth in the West Bank and Gaza will be our approach toward Syria and Iran.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:35 pmI bet on bombs and missles. Diplomacy is irrelevent to W.
George will not be leaving Iraq and will go headlong further east with the Israeli’s blessings.
The Democrats will be caught flatfooted and many will grin ear to ear.
Nothing should surprise.
Juan: “What do you need in order to make that comparison?”
How about if Israel pledges to remake the entire world in its own image with Zionists running everything through the barrel of a gun.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:37 pmWhat do you need in order to make that comparison?
IMO, You’d need a declaration from the Israelis that Palestinians/Arabs are an inferior race and should be exterminated from the earth. Then you’d need them to begin executing that plan. So far I’ve seen neither of these conditions take place.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:38 pmSorry Larry, those declarations have been in-place for quite some time now.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:45 pmIn fact, those declarations have been in-place since about 70AD. The Talmud is quite explicit on such matters.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:47 pmMajor Religions of the World
Ranked by Number of Adherents
(Sizes shown are approximate estimates)
Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million (approx. 8 million in Israel)
Baha’i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand
Just an interesting way of looking at the Israeli issue. So all the problems of 1.1 BILLION Islamists (many sitting on the most oil rich land in the world) are caused by a measley 8 million Israelis living on a tiny strip of land with no oil? From a purely statistical perspective (which is only one of many perspectives) this is an impossibility.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:53 pm66, Could you please name the section of the Talmud where I can find those declarations? Or quote the text from which you believe it gives Jews the directive to exterminate all Arabs?
Then please point me to evidence that Israelis have actually enacted the plan of extermination of all Arabs? I scour many sources of news. I’ve found evidence of excessive brutality. But I’ve found zero evidence of a comprehensive plan, currently being executed, to kill every Arab. Could you please point me to such information you may have. And the source must be reliable, not a Klan newsletter.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:02 pmThen please point me to evidence that Israelis have actually enacted the plan of extermination of all Arabs?
Comment by Larry from C — December 8, 2006 @ 3:02 pm
Israel’s government has no plans to kill every Arab, that I know of, but there has been talk of expelling every Palestinian from the country and the occupied territories from some time now.
Spurred on by public despair, Israeli advocates of a mass expulsion of Palestinians are gaining strength and legitimacy as the toll of Palestinian attacks inside Israel continues to rise.
Tourism Minister Benny Elon of the far-right Moledet party this week launched a campaign advocating “transfer,” a euphemism for expulsion, which he says can also connote an agreed relocation of Palestinians.
Israeli expulsion idea gains steam
There has also been much ado about preserving the “essence of the Israeli state” by denying Israeli citizenship to Palestinians, and making Palestinian-Israeli marriages illegal. These moves were done out of concern for the demographic trends in Israel that seem to indicate a higher fertility rate among Palestinians, very similar to the right-wing hysterical cries about the “Hispanic invasion”.
In short, there is active discrimination of Arabs in Israel, and the methods used to overpower the Palestinian population smack of Nazi tactics.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:18 pmHow about if Israel pledges to remake the entire world in its own image with Zionists running everything through the barrel of a gun.
Comment by Bluedog49
They think they are the chosen ones…whatever that means. That their god is better. They are a religious state = a discriminating state. If you were an arab and you had your former home taken by the barrel of a gun, I think you would agree, that it is just not that they want some land to live peacefully. I bet some do, some care about arabs, hell they were neighbors, but zionists changed it all. The road to Damascus wasnt written yesterday. I dont defend arab extremists, but when they occupy jewish territory, say, here in Mexico City, I will be the first to critize them.
So far I’ve seen neither of these conditions take place.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:22 pmComment by Larry from C
Look again, Larry. Go visit Palestine.
Children Killed in US Iraq Raid
Locals say 32 Civillians have died in an operation the US says targeted Terrorists
The US statement said: “This is another step closer to defeating al-Qaeda in Iraq and helping establish a safe and peaceful Iraq.”
“The [Iraq] invasion has killed more innocent people than any other dictator”
get out murderers
December 8th, 2006 at 3:27 pmLarry, you can read the Talmud yourself.
Here you will find the pertinent excerpts, and here you will find an excellent summary of the operational plan. As for your data, take a resort looking at the concentration of wealth and power. After that, take a look at who runs the media conglomerates. I’ll be back later to see if you are ready to get with fact-based reality. If so, then we’ll see about reframing this debate, as your premise of “Arab extermination” is unacceptable — it doesn’t work like that.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:32 pm70, I’ve quickly read your article in the CS Monitor. The idea of expulsion is presently only that, an “idea”. And it was introduced by the far-right party in Israel. The solid majority of Israeli citizens are CENTRISTS, who want to give land for peace. My prediction is that this idea will not come to pass because its too extreme.
And its a rather weak arguement to cite a specific random idea. In every society every idea, no matter how radical gets discussed. Doesn’t mean the idea will come to fruition. You could paint anybody a monster by citing an idea they expressed.
Now to the central issue. The “idea” of expulsion in no way, shape or form compares to Hitler’s “idea” of extermination. Which is what I’ve been arguing here. As I admitted in the first line of my first post (#56)…”I’m not going to defend the brutal Israeli tactics.”
My goal is to get to the truth of the matter. I try not to embrace any ideology as that gets in the way of the pursuit of truth. I see many here making that very mistake and I feel sorry because you’re only cheating yourself.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:36 pmI think my first post didnt go through:
The phrase “withdrawal from territories” has been a particular bone of contention. In most of the world (including Europe), it has been understood to imply Israeli withdrawal from all of the territories occupied during the war, with at most minor — and mutual — adjustments. At first, that was also Washington’s interpretation. UN Ambassador Arthur Goldberg informed King Hussein of Jordan that the US insisted that “there must be a mutuality in adjustments,” a classified State Department history observes: to both Israel and the Arab states, “U.S. officials emphasized that any territorial adjustments would be limited in nature and would not, of necessity, be detrimental to the Arab states”; there would be at most “minor reciprocal border rectifications” with no “substantial withdrawing of the [pre-war] map.” It was on this understanding, explicitly conveyed by US government mediators, that the Arab states accepted the resolution, and the US itself unequivocally held to this interpretation until 1971. In those years, Israel was alone among major actors in rejecting this interpretation of the document.
The disagreements over interpretation came to a head in February 1971, when UN mediator Gunnar Jarring presented a proposal to Egypt and Israel that called for full peace between them in return for full Israeli withdrawal from Egyptian territory. Egyptian President Sadat accepted the proposal. Sadat’s acceptance of Jarring’s “famous” peace proposal was a “bombshell,” Prime Minister Rabin recalls in his memoirs, a “milestone.” While officially welcoming Egypt’s expression “of its readiness to enter into a peace agreement with Israel,” the government of Israel rejected the agreement, stating that “Israel will not withdraw to the pre-June 5, 1967 lines. The reasoning was explained by Haim Bar-Lev of the governing Labor Party: “I think that we could obtain a peace settlement on the basis of the earlier [pre-June 1967] borders. If I were persuaded that this is the maximum that we might obtain, I would say: agreed. But I think that it is not the maximum. I think that if we continue to hold out, we will obtain more.”
December 8th, 2006 at 3:36 pmSo it’s OK for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth?
Comment by Kevin — December 8, 2006 @ 11:17 am
What Ahmadinejad said was that “The occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time”. Not a word about wiping Israel off the map.
Mind you Ahmadinejad was quoting a speech Khomeini delivered many years ago that didn’t raise any eyebrows at the time.
This time around, it seems it was a very convenient excuse to saber-rattle against Iran.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:39 pmThe “idea†of expulsion in no way, shape or form compares to Hitler’s “idea†of extermination. Which is what I’ve been arguing here.
Comment by Larry from C — December 8, 2006 @ 3:36 pm
I conceded that point at the very beginning of my post: “Israel’s government has no plans to kill every Arab, that I know of […]”.
You could paint anybody a monster by citing an idea they expressed.
Well, if that idea is about exerting collective punishment, I’d say the picture is pretty accurate.
I see many here making that very mistake and I feel sorry because you’re only cheating yourself.
What ideology would that be, exactly? Are you accusing me of being anti-semitic? Please do elaborate.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:46 pm71, Juan C. I’m running out of time at present to address all your comments. But let me address this one:
They think they are the chosen ones…whatever that means. That their god is better.
Much of the non-Christian world takes great offense when Christians tell them that the only way to have eternal life is to accept Jesus as their lord and saviour. That the only way to Heaven is thru Christianity. Does this not come off sounding like their god is better than your god? As if 4 billion people on this planet who are non-christians are doomed to nothingness.
You can find fault in every religion. I look at that as a challenge, not an offense. Unfortunately most people think like you and see it as an offense.
Also, please consider how very difficult it is to run a Democracy in that part of the world. Its no excuse for treating Palestinians brutally, but we’ve seen how our Democracy has come almost completely unhinged after just ONE attack. Think about it, we’ve lost 8 constitutional amendments from one attack!!
Lastly, Juan C, I thought you lived in USA. Now that I know you live in Mexico City I’ll have some questions for you at a future date concerning the recent election of Calderon. I like to play offense too!
December 8th, 2006 at 3:50 pmI have seen several posts that mention Israel “giving” land for peace.
I hope one understands that returning a portion of what you “steal” is not “giving” back!
I have a map of the world from 1947 and it shows Palestine and no Israel, so somebody wiped Palestine off the map, right?
Should not that somebody be denounced more for ACTUALLY wiping a country off the map, than for somebody who WISHES a country be wiped of the map, right?
If a person in not a FULL and EQUAL citizen of the country that currently resides at the lattitude and longitude where that person was born, then that country is an APARTIED state, right?
Since Israel has less than half the population of Palestine, what possible reason other than HYPOCRASY could there be for them deserving more than half the land, right?
December 8th, 2006 at 3:52 pmLast post for at least several hours.
#77, I’ve been talking with several people so if I mixed a statment of someone else with yours then I apologize.
What I’ve noticed in general is that people subscribe to an ideology. And this adherence to the ideology blinds them from a sharper vision of truth. We all make this mistake to one degree or another, from time to time. Whether or not you do, or want to admit that you do is entirely up to you. I don’t know you from Adam. You can choose to live or think any way you choose…until Bush takes that right away from you too.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:59 pm#80
What I’ve noticed in general is that people subscribe to an ideology…
Larry from C
Dude you hit the nail on the head here!
Palestine is a geographic region never state or country.
December 8th, 2006 at 4:06 pmRastafarianism: 600 thousand
Six hundred thousand and ONE mon. :)
December 8th, 2006 at 5:06 pmI like to play offense too!
Comment by Larry from C
:) If I can help…
Larry. IMO, this is not about religion. I mean, this is highly motivated by religion, but bottom line, it is about power and money. Religion, just as patriotism, is used by the ruling class to keep the ignorant masses from exerting criticism. So, if somebody tells me, my god is better than the other, that makes me feel good and I will try to defend everything that makes me feel good. Turn on the TV in Israel and what you will see is a bunch of arabs screaming death to Israel or something like that. Just like in the US.
For example: Every time a suicide bombing strikes Israel, mass coverage of the tragedy begins instantly. Whether landing on the front page of The Times or taking up the headline block on CNN.com, the pain Israeli people endure is shown endlessly. Israelis do suffer. Suicide bombings are horrific. Nevertheless, Palestinian pain occurs far more frequently, and yet often overlooked by the mainstream American media.
I watched this movie, The Protocols of Zion, made by a jewish director, and the only people I found deeply fanatic were the jewish. The movie concludes that the Protocols are pure fiction, some drunk guys having fun but after what you hear from the jewish they interviewed, you get pretty much the picture. My ideology, hopefully, is that one of justice, therefore some kids throwing stones to jewish tanks is a depiction of inequality.
Arab sovereignty in Jerusalem just cannot be. This city will not be divided-not half and half, not 60-40, not 75-25, nothing. Golda Meir
December 8th, 2006 at 5:28 pmOf course Neocons don’t want diplomacy…they want to attack Iran and Syria…but Neocons don’t furnish but talks because their kids don’t go to wars..it is the average American who get killed in wars…not the elite Neocons…!!
December 8th, 2006 at 6:52 pmHi Angie, how’s your
December 8th, 2006 at 10:22 pmhusbandcousin doin’?You can’t condemn whole nations as belonging to an Axis of Evil and afterwards go back to beg them to help you…. Not even in Bush’s ultra-simplified view of the world.
December 9th, 2006 at 5:16 am[…] Americans Overwhelmingly Support Direct Talks With Iran And Syria […]
December 9th, 2006 at 5:58 pm[…] Another ISG-specific question asked respondents if they favor diplomatic outreach to Iran and Syria “for help in stabilizing Iraq.” A clear majority (57%) agreed this approach should be taken, while only 34% disagreed. The President has already more or less dismissed this- one of the more significant recommendations the Group made. Another new poll shows 75% of Americans favoring talks with Iran and Syria in order to cooperate on Iraq. […]
December 9th, 2006 at 6:18 pm*****Dear “Critical” (??) thinker, Please give friends of Israel a rundown of Palestinian cities and towns. Jerusalem? Bethlehem? Nazareth? Jericho? Would you be so kind as to list the Palestinian leaders from 1847 to 1947?
Surprisingly, I support direct talks with Syria and Iran. (Indirect talks lead to confusion and punditry.) My suggestion for direct talks goes something like this:
US: “You two had better remove your filthy influence from Iraq and Lebanon.”
S: “You mean Hezbollah….and the jihadists we’ve allowed to use Syria as a launch site??
I: “You mean the assistance we are providing to Shiite “clerics” and their followers? And our threat to wipe out Israel?”
US: “Precisely……Pull the plug on this $h*t or the only discussion of Damascus and Tehran will be archealogical in nature. Is that clear?”
I see what you Progs mean! Dialogue CAN be a good thing…..
Happy Sunday!!
December 10th, 2006 at 1:28 pmTalks are a good thing - when there is belief that the other side is interested in solving the problem by talks as well.
December 11th, 2006 at 3:51 amHowever, when there is a strong possibility that the only thing the other side wants is to win time, to prepare better to war, why should one give the other side such a present?
What I mean is Iran - they are desperate for time. Every month brings them closer to nuclear bomb, and going to war with and without one is a huge difference. So they will try to talk, and to talk again, and again, because while naive west thinks that there is a chance for diplomatic solution, they come closer and closer to nuclear weapon
Agree with each word
December 11th, 2006 at 4:01 amThere is nothing Syria and Iran would love more than talks with the U.S. They will talk until the second coming of the Arab Caliphate and Persian Empire, all the while arming Hizbollah (second largest killer of Americans after Al Qaeda) and Hamas (Al Qaeda’s future base in the Middle East), and acquiring offensive nuclear capability. The problem is that the US has talked extensively and acted minimally, thereby compromising significantly its deterrent power. It is time for terse, candid talk with Syria and Iran, and if they still do not get the message, it is time for action; there are many options. Remembers, Arabs and the Iranians do not have respect for, or understanding of, Western civilization notions of discourse and negotiations; they perceive them as signs of weakness.
December 11th, 2006 at 4:07 amIran & Syria - the major sponsors of terror, including the terror in Iraq. What’s there to talk them about solving yhe problem wehen they’re the ones who created it in the first place. Talk to them about stop support terrorism!
December 11th, 2006 at 4:19 am>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
You have to like the Israeli Propaganda machine at work. The group GIYUS.org a.k.a Give Israel Your United Support is passing this link on to thousands of thier Israeli web propaganda soldiers so they can comment on this site. So take what most of these comments say worth a grain of salt as we all know Israel wants the USA to be trapped over in the middle east forever, heck that’s why we went to war in the first place was to protect israel. Just go to thier site and see all the web propaganda they are trying to spread:
http://www.giyus.org
December 11th, 2006 at 4:19 am>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
You have to like the Israeli Propaganda machine at work. The group GIYUS.org a.k.a Give Israel Your United Support is passing this link on to thousands of thier Israeli web propaganda soldiers so they can comment on this site. So take what most of these comments say worth a grain of salt as we all know Israel wants the USA to be trapped over in the middle east forever, heck that’s why we went to war in the first place was to protect israel. Just go to thier site and see all the web propaganda they are trying to spread:
http://www.giyus.org
December 11th, 2006 at 4:23 amI am Jewish, and if someone is threatening my homeland and saying the “holocaust~” did not exist, and yet still dancing a tune around them, what next for the world?
As long as Syria and Iran are funding terrorism there can be no direct talks with either of them. What’s the point of having a discussion while the other side is busy funding various terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to destabilize the Middle East region as a whole?
Facism has many sides to it. The koran is a facist book. It calls for the killing and destruction of non muslims. It calls upon its people to convert by the sword or die. It calls upon muslims not to take “non believers” ie non muslims as friends, but to lie *al takiyah* in order to promote and sustain islam.
The most important aspect of the koran, calls for the total destruction of the Jewish people, and next their brothers the christians.
Please people if we are seriously going to understand WHY the middle east is in Turmoil, as well as around the world, try and read the Koran, the hadiths and suras, and you will then understand WHY ISLAM is trying to make Sharia law in every country of the world.
This has NOTHING to do with LAND FOR PEACE, this has everything to do with THE DESTRUCTION of the NON believers.
December 11th, 2006 at 4:24 amI can’t believe what I am reading here. Americans must think everyone in the world is as benevolent, open minded, and pluralistic as they are. Wake Up America! Those Iranian and Syrian leaders you want to speak with have not a clue what civil service is and the honor of serving your constituents as is present in the US. Why do you think so many Iranians and Syrians have fled to the US, Canada, and Israel? Because people (no matter where you randomly were born) love freedom not dictatorial crazies with mad schemes of destroying productive free societies (ie Israel and the US). Why can’t you left of Lenin understand that you cannot dialogue with people who will give up their own lives, families, society, country for the opportunity to kill you and as many more as possible. In addition, nothing they say or do will be honest as they only have their fundamentalism and that is their directive so the English spewed at you and our governments is purely for deceptive tactics in ensuring we stay open and accomodating while their plans of our extermination go into high gear!
In short you well meaning people say dialogue with these monsters, murderers of innocent men, women, and children, because if you say no, don’t do that long enough they will change their ways and allow free expression of ideas to all their citizens and all those others they terrorize.
WAKE UP EVERYONE! HOW MANY 9/11s DO YOU NEED? SOMETIMES THERE IS A REASON FOR WAR. IT IS TO WIN AGAINST EVIL AND KEEP YOUR WAY OF LIFE AND YOUR PRECIOUS FAMILIES SAFE FROM DEVESTATING HARM!
December 11th, 2006 at 4:30 am>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
You have to like the Israeli Propaganda machine at work. The group GIYUS.org a.k.a Give Israel Your United Support is passing this link on to thousands of thier Israeli web propaganda soldiers so they can comment on this site. So take what most of these comments say worth a grain of salt as we all know Israel wants the USA to be trapped over in the middle east forever, heck that’s why we went to war in the first place was to protect israel. Just go to thier site and see all the web propaganda they are trying to spread:
http://www.giyus.org
December 11th, 2006 at 4:33 amYou talk about elite, Tarazan? What about the DNC? Everyone of them is more privileged then the next. All they know how to do is tell Americans you need us and BIG government. Without us taking every last $$ for taxes for this and that program you wouldn’t amount to anything. How ANTI-American can you get! Not the Democrat Party of my grandparents that is for sure.
Regarding the military: The difference is at least Neocons respect and support the US Armed Forces unlike the DNC whose agenda it is to weaken and reduce the support for our amazing men and women in uniform! Stop with your progressive hypocrisy!
December 11th, 2006 at 4:49 amTorn, what you are against a free exchange of ideas? Can’t stand a little misdirection of this lists one sided attitude? A “despise Israel for all the world’s evils” at all costs. I guess your rational thought doesn’t stack up to being questioned or scrutinized.
I really am sorry you can’t appreciate other thoughts on the subject. You might even learn something!
December 11th, 2006 at 4:57 amPropaganda is not the “free exchange of ideas” Wolfman, and yes I am against propaganda.
p.s. it’s “Tom” not “Torn”
December 11th, 2006 at 5:06 amRemember when, at the beginning of the “war on trrrr”, Syria and Iran were warmly commended for their cooperation ?
It seems Saudis are sending cash and weapons to the Iraqi Sunnis, weapons and militants also cross easily from Jordan, but it always Syria and Iran which get accused. Why ?
Kudos to the 75% of Americans who realise regional talks are the only way out of the mess they got themselves into.
December 11th, 2006 at 5:12 amAnti-Semitic propaganda alert!
Anti-Semitic propaganda alert!
Anti-Semitic propaganda alert!
Anti-Semitic propaganda alert!
Anti-Semitic propaganda alert!
Anti-Semitic propaganda alert!
Anti-Semitic propaganda alert!
Anti-Semitic propaganda alert!
Tom (see above) is terrified that one of you might actually be capable of listening to an Israeli without biggoted prejudice. One of you might actually give a shit that Iran and Syria are planning to nuke us and have repeatedly pledged to genocide all Jews. One of you might actually prefer that terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hizbullah not be empowered to speak on behaf of all Lebanese , Israeli Arabs, and Pallestinians.
December 11th, 2006 at 5:18 amOne of you might not be a manufactured product of psudo-progressive
dogma who devides the world into good guys and bad guys acording to ethnicity. One of you might be smart enough to tell the difference between legitimate critisism of an Israeli pollitician’s policy and Anti-Semetic journalism, as defined by the three “D’s”
Double standards
Demonization
Deligitimization
By directing readers to discount our voices because we’re Israeli
and labling us as “propaganda soldiers” (as if Tom isn’t), he has commited all three D’s.
Hey Tom,
Why don’t you just admit that you need your scapegoats like you need a Barney doll.
Why don’t you admit that you’re relieved to have a PC front for the Jew hatred you were weened on.
Why don’t you just admit that you’d be pleased if Iran and Syria did nuke us, and you’d be delighted if Hisbullah and Hamas did carry out their threats to rape and murder every last one of our children.
Then you can sit back in your armchair and pontificate some more.
People like you are the reason genocides continue to happen.
On behaf of every group who has been genocided in the past century,
pull your head out of your ass. You can not appease genocidal dictators by negotiation. Learn history’s lessons! You can run but you can’t hide.
There’s no grain of salt that will cover the stench of the bodies of those murdered because apathetic bigots like you allowed it.
Rule # 1 : Genesis 12:3. Everyone else Rule # 2: Proverbs 27:20
December 11th, 2006 at 5:34 amI think negotiating with terrorists, kidnappers and genocidal psychopaths is not a good idea unless you need time to prepare to defend yourself, remembering that while you do so you are also giving them peace and time to prepare to attack you. The primary goal of current Iranian leadership is to destroy the US. Israel is merely a stop along the route, and Iraq is a means to keep the US distracted while they prepare. Look at the things those leaders actually say, rather than the things people say they say, and you’ll understand their real goals. They are quite open and serious about it.
December 11th, 2006 at 6:28 amTerrorrist groups and the countries who support them only use talks and “negotiations” to give themselves time to do whatever they want. They think we are naive idiots and laugh at us while they keep building up arms supplies and giving money and arms to terrorist groups.
December 11th, 2006 at 7:13 amWe need to talk with Iran and Syria. We also need to stop funding Israli terrorism in Palestine. Israel and it’s ANTI-Gentile mindset should not receive another cent of American tax dollars. Israel refuses to allow inspection of it’s known nuclear weapons (Thank You Mr. Gates). Israel’s bigotry is the motivating factor behind much of the Arab terrorism. Look at history, Jews and Arabs used to get along, it is these Zionists with their “Hate All Non Jews” attitude who are creating much of the problem.
December 11th, 2006 at 8:14 amNegotiations with Iran and Syria are pointless these states will do what they’ve always done. Use negotiations as a tool to gain legitimacy in the region as a player, but do nothing. When Syria was in talks with Israel they were offered the Golan Heights back the only thing they were asked for was a REAL peace. The Iranian theocracy hates the US, remember the US backed the Shah, not because of Israel, but as a counter to the USSR during the cold war. Democracy is an hateful system to both regimes.
December 11th, 2006 at 8:17 amKUDOS KUDOS KUDOS KUDOS to #103 with his excellent lesson plan for Tom.
Appreciate the words of wisdom. Very well said!
December 11th, 2006 at 8:19 amMan. Most of you are pretty much rabid anti-semites. Thats pretty scary - Or is it just Mel Gibson writing under a load of different pseudonyms?
December 11th, 2006 at 9:14 amSure, get rid of Israel (ie - kill the Jews) and there will be no problems in the world. Very damn convenient. Now where have I heard that solution before…? Oh yes, I think it was actually called the Final Solution and a nice old dude called Hitler came up with it. You should hang your heads in shame.
These Islamists are YOUR ENEMIES. They want to kill you. Yes, sure, they want to kill the jews first - they always do. But mark my words - if you think being a jew hater makes you safe…boy, are you wrong!
Here’s a clue when it comes to our foreign policy - if the leaders of Iran and Syria thinks something is a good idea, it probably means we should not do it. DUH!
The scariest thing is, most of you people writing here can vote (except for the convicted felons, of whom I suspect there may be a few) - that is, if you can pull your heads out of your a**es long enough to get to the polling station.
It is never wise to talk directly with the devil.
December 11th, 2006 at 9:15 amwe all need peace.. all the people of the world want peace… the problem is with the leaders like Bush and Olmert who only want war and to kill more people… we should stop them now and force them to open dialogue and cooperate with Iran and Syria… those two countires are sincere to reach to stability in Iraq.
December 11th, 2006 at 9:37 amAs long as Syria and Iran are funding terrorism there can be no direct talks with either of them. What’s the point of having a discussion while the other side is busy funding various terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to destabilize the Middle East region as a whole?
December 11th, 2006 at 10:42 amHitler was also negotiated with and look where that went! Let’s learn from history. It does tend to repeat itself because naive leaders and people lack the conviction and determination to face terrorists and put them in their place early. Our only mistake in Iraq was to not leave after we took out Saddam. Leaving a clear warning to whomever took his place.
December 11th, 2006 at 10:50 amYeah build bigger gas chambers
December 11th, 2006 at 11:32 amFor those that claim israel is the problem or that we should disengage from israel. A little lesson in islamic beleif is in order. According to the koran ANY WHERE that muslims have previously conquered is sacred muslim ground and its an affront to islam if it is taken by someone else This is the reason israel is such a thorn in the side to jihadys.
So if israel is the problem what about spain who was a islamic conquest also, is spain a problem? How about france where the islamics were partually successful is that also a problem?
You see even if israel were to go away and make the muslims happy, you still have sudan, kashmir, uzbeckistan, checnia, phillipeans, indonesia, ethopioa, and many other lands the muslims claim as there own, not even to mention Spain and France!
Further according to koran the lands of the infidel, ie the people who dont beleive koran, is to be conquered and the people killed until they submit to islam. This is the core thing about jihad and what they beleive. So even if you solved all the above places gave them all to islam, you would have even more trouble spots appear as they would be embolden and would try to take over other lands, such as amsterdam where they are nearly a majority these days.
You dont have to beleive me, just read the freaking koran for yourselfs, youll see Im right. It is a duty for muslims with some exceptions to do jihad, most just give money for the battle, the hotheads go out to kill. This is what suicide bombings, bin landin, bombs in iraq etc are all about. Forget about muslims in the westernworld, if its just the arabs doing this its still a big big problem.
Islamic religious claims are the problem and will continue to be until islam undergos reformation or otherwise changes.
Time to wake up to the truth.
RichardRose
December 11th, 2006 at 11:51 amare we talking about the same american people who voted for Bush…twice?…i think they’re just sick of bush’s bad decisions on everything…and with iraq, no one has much of any idea on whats next.
Iran and Syria support terrorism and want Israel gone…
but they also know his poll numbers.
Bush GOT us here…and that tells us all we need to know…
the man is basically USELESS, and the world knows it.
the next two years will be filled with more dead american soldiers, and NO leader to help them.
its not just sad, its a war crime.
December 11th, 2006 at 12:12 pmAs long as Syria and Iran are funding terrorism there can be no direct talks with either of them. What’s the point of having a discussion while the other side is busy funding various terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to destabilize the Middle East region as a whole. Also, as long as they want the destruction of Israel, when it’s the only country in the Middle East that values life, values it’s citizens and their rights and is blamed for everything. If the people of all these terrorist countries took a good look at their life and what their terrorist gov’t is doing to them, maybe they will stop blaming Israel and blame themselves and their own government.
December 11th, 2006 at 2:10 pmI believe it is a bad idea to talk to either Iran or Syria.
December 11th, 2006 at 2:23 pmTalking to them will just show how weak our resolve is and embolden the enemy.
America has lost its resolve to win any war. It is allowing the polls to dictate how to fight the war.
There are no longer any real men or leaders governing this country. They let political opinion and political correctness dictate their moves.
We betrayed our young men in Viet Nam and now we are betraying them again in Iraq and in any other place we may send them.
Our government is not making it attractive or enticing to join the military.
That is probably why the liberals and democrats want to reinstate the draft.
If I were a young person or the parent of one I would not encourage them to join the military at this stage. In fact, I would very much discourage them at this time.
Notice the poll was taken before the Americans were told that Iran and Syria are supporting with arms, logistics, and training the Mahidi army. “Oh yeah that’s right they still have not been told that.” I would feel better knowing the demoncrats were simply to stupid to know that the problem of destabilization of the region is by the surrounding Arab countries that are fearful of Iraq being a successful competitor to OPEC as a democracy. But they of course have figured this out all to well. They are more than happy to use the media of which they control to obscure the facts and muddle the waters.
December 11th, 2006 at 2:58 pmTom do you lurk on giyus as well?
December 11th, 2006 at 3:13 pmI think their megaphone kind of back fired.
@Prussian Blue, yes I do lurk on giyus :) glad to see someone besides the israeli propaganda soldiers are here!
@OIF Being against Israeli propaganda does not make me Anti-Semitic, but it’s not like I care if you try to label me one or not, heck whos not called Anti-Semitic by you propaganda drones, even president Carter was just called Anti-Semitic because his book says Israel is making a mess for us to clean up
http://virtualmatter.blogspot.com/ 2006/ 12/ video-c-span-caller-to-carter-youre.html
I will say it again:
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
>>ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!
You have to like the Israeli Propaganda machine at work. The group GIYUS.org a.k.a Give Israel Your United Support is passing this link on to thousands of thier Israeli web propaganda soldiers so they can comment on this site. So take what most of these comments say worth a grain of salt as we all know Israel wants the USA to be trapped over in the middle east forever, heck that’s why we went to war in the first place was to protect israel. Just go to thier site and see all the web propaganda they are trying to spread:
http://ws.giyus.org/points/list
From the propaganda website:
Active alerts:
Direct Talks with Iran and Syria
A recent poll showed 75% of Americans would like to see direct talks with Iran and Syria, as a way out of the situation in Iraq. Iran loves this idea as well.
Voice your opinion
An article printed by The Guardian reads:
Israel ups the stakes in the propaganda war
Amir Gissin runs what he calls ‘”Israel’s Explanation Department”. Which is why it is surprising to hear him admit that many Israelis think “the whole problem is that we don’t explain ourselves correctly”.
Last week, as al-Jazeera launched an Arab view of the world into English-speaking homes worldwide, Gissin was a man under pressure. At the David Bar Ilan conference on the media and Middle East, he faced an audience of Israelis who were unhappy about the way the propaganda battle with Hizbullah was fought and lost during the war in the Lebanon. They wanted to know how it could be done better next time, because most people in Israel seem to think there will be a next time with Hizbullah soon.
Gissin said the words of his English-speaking spokespeople could not compete with the power of the pictures of civilians killed in the Israeli attack on Lebanese towns like Qana. And the Israeli parliament will not spend the money on an Israeli counterpart to al-Jazeera.
But Gissin was not down-hearted. He declared there to be a “war on the web” in which Israel had a new weapon, a piece of computer software called the “internet megaphone”.
“During the war we had the opportunity to do some very nice things with the megaphone community,” he revealed at the conference. Among them, he claimed, was a role in getting an admission from Reuters that a photograph of damage to Beirut had been doctored by a Lebanese photographer to increase the amount of smoke in the picture. This was first spotted by American blogger Charles Johnson, who has won an award for “promoting Israel and Zionism”.
To check out the power of the megaphone, I logged onto a website called GIYUS (Give Israel Your United Support) last Wednesday afternoon. More than 25,000 registered users of http://www.giyus.org have downloaded the megaphone software, which enables them to receive alerts asking them to get active online.
It did not take long for an alert to come through. A Foreign Office minister, Kim Howells, had issued a press statement condemning that day’s Palestinian rocket attack which killed an elderly Israeli and wounded other civilians. GIYUS wanted site users to “show your appreciation of the UK’s response”.
One click took me to a pre-prepared email addressed to Dr Howells, and a slot for me to personalise my comment. A test confirmed that the email would arrive at his office, as if I had spotted his comments on a news website, in this case Yahoo, and sent it to him with a supporting message. In the emails, there would be no indication of the involvement of GIYUS, although Howells may have been suspicious that so many people around the world had read the same Yahoo story about him and decided to email him. The Foreign Office confirms that emails were received last Wednesday but will not go into any more detail.
The most popular target of the online activists is the foreign media, especially the BBC, the news organisation which they love to hate. Earlier this year I was a member of the independent panel set up by the BBC governors to review the BBC’s coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We reported on the high number of emails we had received from abroad, mostly from North America, and the evidence of pressure group involvement. A majority of email correspondents thought that the BBC was anti-Israel, however if the emails that could be identified as coming from abroad were excluded, the opposite was true - more people thought the BBC anti-Palestinian or pro-Israel.
The BBC has already had one encounter with GIYUS - an attempt to influence the outcome of an online poll. BBC History magazine noticed an upsurge in voting on whether holocaust denial should be a criminal offence in Britain. But the closing date had already passed and the result had already been published, so the votes were invalid anyway. GIYUS supporters claim success elsewhere in “balancing” an opinion poll on an Arabic website by turning a vote condemning Israel’s attack in the Lebanon into an endorsement.
For some of Israel’s supporters, a primary aim of their war on the web is an attempt to discredit what they see as hostile foreign media reports, especially those containing iconic visual images.
One particular target has been the respected French TV correspondent, Charles Enderlin, whose Palestinian cameraman filmed 12-year-old Mohammed al-Dura being shot and killed, as his father tried to shield him at the start of the second intifada. Enderlin accused Israeli troops of shooting and killing the boy. French supporters of Israel went online to claim the report was a distortion based on faked footage. His network, France 2, responded with legal action and, last month, in the first of four individual cases, a French court found the organiser of a self-styled media watchdog website guilty of libel.
Another online target has been the TV footage of bloodshed on a Gaza beach earlier this year. A Palestinian girl was seen screaming as she saw the bodies of dead family members killed by what Palestinians allege was Israeli shellfire. When I mentioned the impact of these pictures at last week’s conference, members of the audience shouted “staged”.
One person came up to me afterwards to suggest that the family had somehow died somewhere else and that their bodies had been moved to the beach to be filmed. Where, for instance, was all the blood? I pointed out that I had seen everything that the cameraman had shot and that some pictures were too gruesome to be shown.
It is clear that the government of Israel wants to fight back against the impact of foreign media pictures like these. Amir Gissin talked last week of plans to get Israeli video onto sites like YouTube which he said were viewed by opinion “shapers”. And his cousin Dr Ra’anan Gissin, formerly Ariel Sharon’s media adviser, has endorsed the idea of having picture power at the country’s disposal ready for future conflicts. Referring to Israel’s opponents, he put it in his usual direct way: “You need to shoot a picture before you shoot them.” Stewart Purvis is professor of Television Journalism at City University in London. He is a former chief executive and editor-in-chief of ITN.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ israel/ Story/ 0,,1952099,00.html
December 11th, 2006 at 3:30 pmu all suk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!( except 4 people who dont wana talk to th bastards of Iran and Syria
December 11th, 2006 at 7:11 pmFunny; the GIYUS missive posted above (#122) by “tom” merely suggests to its subscribers that they voice their opinion; it does not tell them whatto say—a far cry from the moronic allegation of ISRAELI PROPAGANDA ALERT!!. People like “tom” should really strive to understand words before they use them.
As for the vile bigotry of “Prussian Blue”, it is not even worth addressing.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:33 amAs long as Syria and Iran are funding terrorism there can be no direct talks with either of them. What’s the point of having a discussion while the other side is busy funding various terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to destabilize the Middle East region as a whole?
December 12th, 2006 at 3:16 pm[…] http://thinkprogress.org/ 2006/ 12/ 08/ iran-syria-diplomacy/ […]
December 21st, 2006 at 6:41 pm[…] supports giving diplomacy with Syria a chance. A December World Public Opinion poll found that 75 percent of Americans — including 72 percent of Republicans and 81 percent of Democrats — […]
April 6th, 2007 at 10:53 am[…] know better than that. As Faiz notes: "A December World Public Opinion poll found that 75 percent of Americans — including 72 percent of Republicans and 81 percent of Democrats — […]
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