Only Social Conservatives Featured On Meet the Press Special ‘Faith In America’
Only Social Conservatives Featured On Meet the Press Special ‘Faith In America’
This weekend, NBC will air a special edition of Meet the Press addressing “Faith in America.” The only two guests scheduled are evangelist Rick Warren, author of “Purpose Driven Life,” and Newsweek editor Jon Meacham, author of “American Gospel.” NBC says the two will discuss the questions, “Can religion unite the country for the greater good and what role will God and values play in the 2008 presidential election?”
Though Rick Warren recently invited progressive Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) to speak to his California megachurch, Warren’s position on cultural issues skews far-right:
Warren is entirely orthodox when it comes to the culture wars: Like other evangelicals, he opposes abortion, gay marriage, stem-cell research, human cloning, and euthanasia. What’s more, on the eve of last year’s Presidential election, he wrote that those five moral issues are “nonnegotiable” and “not even debatable.” Leaving no doubt about his political leanings — Bush allied himself with evangelicals on all those issues — Warren urged pastors to “encourage every Christian you know to vote” and “pray for godly leaders to be elected.”
As MediaMatters has documented, Meacham has also espoused conservative views on a wide range of issues. Some notable points:
– During an appearance on The O’Reilly Factor earlier this year, Meacham stated he believed in “the secular battle against Christmas, against Easter,” calling it “one field” on which the purported struggle between the secular “left” and “the Christian Right” occurs.
– Meacham did not dispute O’Reilly’s claim about “the ACLU jihad…against Judeo-Christian tradition in this country.” Meacham said the country’s founders like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would have opposed the ACLU’s efforts because “what they wanted was religion in the country.” [Link]
Polls have shown the moral concerns of the American people do not mirror those of the religious right. Asked to name the most serious moral crisis in America today, 22 percent said “corruption in government/business” and 17 percent said “greed and materialism” or “people too focused on themselves”; only 3 percent cited “abortion and homosexuality.”
The progressive faith community is not hard to find. Meet the Press should include their views.
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Timmeh just feels bad for the religious right because so many of them have been outed recently. Or charged with pedophilia, etc.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:12 pm“Polls have shown the moral concerns of the American people do not mirror those of the religious right.”
They sure don’t mirror the far left either. The concerns lay basically in the middle.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:16 pmYeah, because religion has done so well bringing the world together in Iraq.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:21 pmMeacham is deluded.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:22 pmCheck this out:
Problem is that you are so far right that you think that people that are moderate and lean to the left are radical leftists. It is not our fault that you are so far out of the mainstream. That is your mental illness to deal with.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:22 pmI wonder if they’ll have Sam Harris on?
Didn’t think so.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:23 pmTo me its not about left v. right, but they should certainly have someone on who does not believe in Faith and Religion.
Maybe Dawkins would be a good pick, he does alot of british shows and is very concise with his views of religion.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:25 pmUgh… what is it with the media and their sucking up to these people??? I really don’t get it. I don’t get Russert either: he’s been to the puppet show, he’s seen the strings… why is he so intellectually lazy?
December 21st, 2006 at 4:25 pmLet me try that again:
http://www.opednews.com/ articles/ opedne_marc_mcd_061218_how_did_america_s_fo.htm
December 21st, 2006 at 4:25 pmCan’t they at least put an insane puppet on the same show?
December 21st, 2006 at 4:26 pmOh, they had the press conference yesterday? Never mind ;}
They sure don’t mirror the far left either. The concerns lay basically in the middle.
Comment by Tracy — December 21, 2006 @ 4:16 pm
And tell me, Tracy, just how many people are there on the “far left” in your world? Any comparison to the 30 percenters who support our Christian-Fascist emperoro Bush?
December 21st, 2006 at 4:26 pmBen Franklin was friendly with George Whitefield of the “Great Awakening†fame. Franklin, though, didn’t share Whitefield’s orthodox Christian beliefs. As a theistic rationalist, Franklin supported “religion†in general (thought society was better off with it than without it), but thought most if not all world religious were valid ways to God. Franklin was involved in building a church in Philadelphia for public worship and offered Whitefield this venue to preach when others were not available. Here is how Franklin described the experience.
Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service.
To Franklin, apparently, Whitefield’s orthodox Christianity was equivalent to the Mufti of Constantinople’s Mohammedanism.
http://positiveliberty.com/ 2006/ 11/ ben-franklin-v-dennis-prager.html
December 21st, 2006 at 4:27 pm#2 ….
December 21st, 2006 at 4:29 pmIs the implication that this site is a bastion of the far left?
If so, I must protest that such is not the case.
Trust me Tracy, I know what the exteme left looks like, and I don’t see it here……….
“Can religion unite the country for the greater good and what role will God and values play in the 2008 presidential election?â€
Maybe they also could say what role they think God played in the 2006 election. Looks like he voted Democrat in that one.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:30 pmThey sure don’t mirror the far left either. The concerns lay basically in the middle.
Comment by Tracy
From talking to people my whole life here in Indiana I can sure say this with confidence …
Do most people think gay MARRIAGE is ok? NO.
Do most people think it is any of their business or even care if gays have “civil unions”? NO.
Most Hoosiers dont think about gay people enough to care what they do as long as they dont try to have gay pride parades through the middle of churchs or schools.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:31 pmHey, General Jackass!
December 21st, 2006 at 4:33 pmWhat was your last unit command??
Nothing surprising here.
Meet the Press guests and panels tilts right. It is well documented by mediamatters.org
The right tilt has everything to do with corporate ownership. General Electric owns NBC. They receive big govt contracts from the Bush regime. They have benefited from GOP policies on regulations, taxes and loopholes. They promote pro GOP views on Meet the Press.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:34 pmthe should re-name the program “Fat in America” not “Faith”. That guy Warren looks obese.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:38 pmIsn’t it a traditon to have religious cartoons during the Christmas season? Looks to me like MTP is jumping on the bandwagon.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:39 pm#17 ggibson,
Do “most people” live in Indiana? No.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:41 pmAny idiot that still believes that religion and superstition is real should not be listened to at all.
They are insane. Not grounded in reality. We should tolerate their beliefs, but we do NOT have to respect them.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:44 pmComment by Tuber
Most people in Indiana are middle of the road conservatives that either consider themselves christians or actually go to church. So all the rest of you to the right of people in Indiana in my mind are a bunch of taliban loonies…
December 21st, 2006 at 4:44 pmIs it just me or does the guy on the left looks like he’s about to say:
“Dude, did you just fart?”
December 21st, 2006 at 4:45 pmcouldn’t you please be truthful about religion as a category? qualify it please. remember to subcategorize, fantasy, paranoia, greed, prostitution, et al.. ad infinitum, (corpus coitus interuptus)
December 21st, 2006 at 4:47 pmso that folks realize that all progressives are not all willingly involved with religion of any kind.
I am so ashamed of people speaking about it in public. why would someone openly admit they are retarded simpletons?
Bio:
December 21st, 2006 at 4:47 pmWilliam “Billy Boom Boom” Gunns
Born: February 29th 1991
Place: Lower Slobtown, Red State, USA
Education:Elementary and Middle school, left High School to join Blackwater Security Co. after failing US Army enlistment requirements.
Rose rapidly up the Blackwell ladder due to his exceptional talents in bullying, bullshipping, and general sociopathic behavior. Permanantly assigned to a covert detention facility outside Bagdhad, Iraq where requires everyone to salute and call him “General Gunny’son”
They are insane. Not grounded in reality. We should tolerate their beliefs, but we do NOT have to respect them.
Comment by RantingTommy
Once they cross the line from “beliefs” into putting their mental sicknesses into OUR laws then the time for tolerance is over. If the people of germany had taken that same stand in the 1930s hitler would have been left in jail where he belonged.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:47 pmThanks Little (familiar) Birdy,
I will take that into consideration.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:52 pmForTruth is not a troll.
Simply because he speaks with someone you obviously detest does not also make him detestable.
ForTruth is awesome.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:52 pmThanks Little (familiar) Birdy,
I will take that into consideration. Hope your not jealous of me, since I can score more ass married, than you could on your best day.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:53 pm#24 ggibson,
Yes, going to church makes you a superior being, right Mr. Hagga…I mean, Gibson?
Oh, and if I were right of the people in Indiana, wouldn’t that put me in Ohio? Are you saying that everyone in Ohio is with the taliban?
Scratch Cincinnati off of my vacation list.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:55 pmThe little birdy, AKA Micheal, AKA, General Pippy Longstocking, AKA IHL.
So you are resorting to affronts based on very little information you were able to collect from the last couple of days. You also took the “Mothership” idea from Happy Guy a little while ago.
Nice try, you are still completely stupid. At least your not spewing about Muslims taking over. I derailed your crap without even trying.
I don’t do men so stop picking up on me.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:58 pm“Can religion unite the country for the greater good and what role will God and values play in the 2008 presidential election?â€
1. Religion cannot unite the country; religion is divisive.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:04 pm2. God will not play any role in the election; people spouting nonsense about God will.
Tuber,
You seem to be attacking ggibson, who is a very reasonable person. I suggest slowing down to figure about what he might be saying.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:07 pmYou progressives are like a bunch of prepubescent children who made it through high school
Comment by Gen. Pippy Longstocking
Hey,
December 21st, 2006 at 5:07 pmIf we’re prepubescent, shouldn’t we be in 7th-8th grade?
Now the little birdy has turned into Abdul.
What’s next closet pole smoker?
December 21st, 2006 at 5:07 pmGive it a break, troll Abdul.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:09 pmYou aren’t scaring anyone.
(except maybe the General.)
SO now the General bird flipper is back to the theme of Muslims taking over. Cuz I reminded him of his original mission. Heh.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:09 pmThis is very simple. Next time somebody starts on you about God and salvation, just ask them to prove it. It is that easy. Prove it. As it is, God (everybody’s God) is a rumor. It is unfair to enter into a debate with someone who is factually unarmed, so don’t try to convince them of your beliefs. They feel their beliefs are right, and yours are wrong. They make it simple, then so should we. God would not want us killing other human beings in his name. Also, the General posting here is not a General - not even a soldier. Just a troll who is hell bent on clogging up the internets.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:09 pmThe birdie troll even lets me think for him, cool.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:09 pmTimmay should tap Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy from Air America. Unfortunately, the guy would make so much sense, the other two wing nuts would probably explode on contact.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:09 pm#35…America does not want a state religion. Republicans tried a Shiavo law but it was found to be unconstitutional.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:11 pmThat’s Meet the Press for you - you get the right and the far right. I’d like to remind Tracy that close to 75% of Americans polled these days favor funding stem cell research, a good 65% agree that there should be universal healthcare, over 70% don’t approve of Bush’s handling of the war, about 70% feel the wealthiest should pay more taxes, close to 70% believe marijuana should be decriminalized, 70+% feel a woman should have the right to choose an abortion before the last trimester and so on.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:11 pmPosting the same comment in all threads really is prepubescent. You have no argument. SSSSSSWWWWAAAAATTTTTTT There no more little birdie.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:11 pm#36,
Are you jealous because we made it through high school?
And there are only two Goofy’s, one is at Disneyland and the other is in the Whitehouse.
And yes, we are a help and support group for the misfits. We believe in the following:
“THE NEW COLOSSUS”
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
December 21st, 2006 at 5:12 pm#39,
Just having some fun with him/her/it because of the absolutist and righteous positioning. I’m still not going to Cincinnati though :)
December 21st, 2006 at 5:15 pmAbdul, we have a constitution here and it forbids government from making any law regarding the establishment of religion, so no, barring a complete breakdown of our entire system, our “Grankids” will not live under Sharia law. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:17 pm#5
This blog which you participate in IS far left….for the most part.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:17 pmPlease prove Allah’s existence. If you cannot, then go away.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:17 pmSTFU, Abdul.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:18 pmEnough already.
blow me, abdul (who is actually a nitwit troll, fighting against his very low i.q. to somehow prove a point)
is it a full moon, or are people really getting oxycontin from those spam emails? last couple of days here have been a non-stop parade of full-blown loonies.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:18 pmI’d like to remind Tracy that close to 75% of Americans polled these days favor….
Comment by Bluedog49 — December 21, 2006 @ 5:11 pm
Excellent points, Bluedog, but you are using numbers! Don’t you understand that 30 percenters like Tracy don’t do numbers? Sheesh, throwing out numbers like that is even crazier than bringing up facts with these people.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:19 pmComment by Tuber
Judging from your last comment I would have to say I misjudged your intent… though maybe not … you should clear that up… going to church makes no one superior. However the point was that the right wingers are extremists not regular middle of the road christians. And so they do NOT represent most Americans. They represent the taliban version of Americans. Most people dont care what gays or Osama or anyone else does as long as they keep it to themselves and dont go around forcing themselves on others. That is the real America. Dont like black people? Fine just dont enslave them or take away their rights. Dont like Americans? Fine then dont come over here blowing us up or kidnapping us when we visit the pyramids and you can not like us all you want. Dont like porn… fine dont watch it. Dont like gays then dont be gay. THAT is America. Ben Franklin didnt care what religion you were as long as you were not some foaming at the mouth “religionist” or “christianist” that wanted to force themselves on others…
December 21st, 2006 at 5:19 pmYour Grankids will live under Sharia law. America will be Islamic land!
Praise be to Allah!
Comment by Abdul
No they won’t. As divided as Americans have become in the last few years (thanks to mr bush), we (as a whole) would crush anybody forcing their religon on us. I mean, we would meet them on the shores of America and wipe up the floor with them. No problem. America may not know how to invade other soverign nations, but we do know how to protect ourselves from an enemy.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:19 pm#53,
Thanks for the heads up.
I’m going to start up a chain of restaurants called “Abdul in the Box” or “McMohammeds”. Ain’t capitalism great.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:21 pmAbdul —
“Your Grankids will live under Sharia law. America will be Islamic land!
Praise be to Allah!”
Americans don’t subjugate their Constitution to religious fanatics of any stripe: “Christian” “Islamic” or anyone else. And your attempt at an “argument” shows that you cannot reason. (You only see two very stupid possibilities—domination by Christians or dominations by Muslims; you don’t see the American position—no domination by anyone: FREEDOM.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:22 pm#12
I can’t speak for the world but as far as the U.S. is concerned….about 20-30%, i.e. those who would support someone like Kucinich or Nader. It’s probably about 1/3 for the right, left, and center.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:22 pm“Faith” has given way to doctrine…none, it would seem, better than the other.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:23 pmI’m going to start up a chain of restaurants called “Abdul in the Box†or “McMohammedsâ€. Ain’t capitalism great.
Comment by Tuber
Very cool, Tuber. LOL!
December 21st, 2006 at 5:23 pm#15
There are some here who are on the far left and I would agree that most here aren’t on the far left, so I would have to correct myself of my response I posted on #57.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:26 pmTuber - Your signature meal can be the pig on a prayer blanket
December 21st, 2006 at 5:27 pm#24
Dude you need to can it.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:28 pm#62 ggibson,
I believe that what makes the USA great is its foundation in compassion, acceptance, and the respect for the liberties of the individual. Regardless of whether you go to church or not. Regardless of whether you are rich or not. And, most importantly, regardless of whether you are an American or not.
This is a wonderful land, especially when you see it for what it truly is and not the exclusive anglo-only club that some want it to be.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:29 pmYes, Verbalkint, she doesn’t seem to have noticed my post. Oh well. I’m sure we could write a book with the various things she doesn’t notice.
Kinda reminds me of Laura Bush. When they were in Ireland, there were the largest demonstrations in that nation’s history against Bush. When asked what she thought about that, Laura said “Well, I haven’t seen any demonstrations. Everyone has been very nice.”
Tracy hasn’t seen the numbers, but she knows the breakdown.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:31 pmHey generalissimo!!
December 21st, 2006 at 5:32 pmYour last unit of command, what and where, you lying sack of pseudo-military crap.
Thanks RUcerious,
I was waiting for someone to ask the General some details about his “service”.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:35 pm#…69…
December 21st, 2006 at 5:38 pmThanks……
Sir, General Sir!: Message from Hitler!
I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so
December 21st, 2006 at 5:40 pm—Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941
Dude you need to can it.
Comment by Tracy
I will can it as soon as the extremist christians I knew grewing up stop acting like they think America is devil spawn.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:41 pmYup, the Riechstag fire got Hitler in the door General Pippy Longstocking. That terrorist act got Hitler elected. I would think a General would know this.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:52 pm#74
Oh I’m sorry were you speaking? I kinda overlooked your percentages considering you didn’t provide a link. Maybe next time? Make sure if you do, your link provides the all too important question they asked considering how they worded it has a huge impact on people’s answers.
BTW how many times do you have to get my gender wrong? 10…20 times?
December 21st, 2006 at 5:53 pm“Can religion unite the country for the greater good and what role will God and values play in the 2008 presidential election?â€
If this is the United States we’re talking about, then no, neither religion nor god should play any part whatsoever in the 2008 presidential election. Because in the United States we have a separation between church and state. If we’re talking about some third-world toilet like the Middle East, for example, then I think we can all see the good religion has done for them. I don’t think we want the United States to mirror that nightmare. And it will, if we do not put these religious charlatans in their place now. And that place is nowhere near a presidential candidate. Their place is in their own private homes where they may preach and proselytize to their own families as they see fit. They will not tell the rest of us or our country how we are going to live.
December 21st, 2006 at 6:03 pmI have always been totally flabbergasted that anyone who calls themselves religious or moral could have ever supported the war in Iraq. Funny how Christians ignore “Thou shalt not kill”.
And, why is banning gay marriage and saving stem cells more important than not killing lots and lots of people?
December 21st, 2006 at 6:10 pmHow about it, you phony ass “General”. your last duty station? I didn’t think so.
December 21st, 2006 at 6:17 pmGo away and play with your toys, stop blathering = put up or shut up!
tedious kook-a-doodles
December 21st, 2006 at 6:19 pmTracy, girl, you don’t have to get catty. Sure, if you’re too lazy to look up the real info yourself, I can provide you with a link. Just go to pollingreport.com and you’ll see lots of polls. And, girl, don’t get your biblethumpin panties in a bunch when you find out how unpopular you are.
December 21st, 2006 at 6:25 pm“Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies.”
Thomas Jefferson
“In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.”
James Madison
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
John Adams
December 21st, 2006 at 6:37 pm“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
James Madison
December 21st, 2006 at 6:44 pm#93,
Hey, I’m a REAL AMERICAN too. And I guess I’m even more of a REAL AMERICAN than Tracy because I state it not just in all capital letters, but also in bold.
Allah akbar my friend! Oh, and I’m dating your daughter and she’s pregnant.
December 21st, 2006 at 6:44 pmone would think that women had no views when it came to these issues yet, abortion affects women so much more hten men, so why do they only ask men to talk about abortion?
December 21st, 2006 at 6:45 pmno kidding. the topic was “faith in america” … why would they invite liberals?
December 21st, 2006 at 6:49 pmBastids.
December 21st, 2006 at 6:51 pmno kidding. the topic was “faith in america†… why would they invite liberals?
Comment by wingnutt
Many liberal churchs believe in Jesus instead of the South Park version of Jesus that the right wing churchs fantasize about.
December 21st, 2006 at 6:52 pm“It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service [formation of the American governments] had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven…â€
John Adams
December 21st, 2006 at 7:02 pm#102,
I’m saluting right now. Let me make sure I got it right - right hand in the air with just the middle finger extended and left hand cupping my crotch.
Happy Ramadan to you!
December 21st, 2006 at 7:02 pmComment by Tuber
step aside civilian coward.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:07 pmwingnutt,
My USMC ex tells a different story. A story of brainwashing. Of breaking recruits down during bootcamp, then filling their head with “the Corp is your life”. He even sports a “Grunt” tatoo.
Of course he still loves “Mailcall” with that ex-Gunny.
Mostly it’s stories of having to eat entire shrimp, shells and all, because he had the audacity to not want to eat them.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:07 pmGeneral to Wingnut: reach around, son, and that’s an order!
December 21st, 2006 at 7:12 pmComment by trueblue
‘brainwashing’ - not quite. but of course they ‘break recruits down’. if you think men and women shouldn’t be ‘indoctrinated’ into a warrior mentality, you’re putting more lives in danger than you know.
every organization practices some form of ‘indoctrination’. of course the USMC has drastic methods (relative to civilian orgs), but that’s because our job is far more drastic.
it makes sense. but the charge of ‘brainwashing’ is weak at best.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:16 pmComment by Bluedog49
sorry, the reach-arounds are taking place in san francisco. or as you liberals call it… Mecca.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:17 pm#108,
You can’t be that good because you haven’t got me yet. Look behind you I’m right there! Psyche!
Now I’m in front of you. Boo!
And now I’m under your bed. Waiting for you and your life-partner wungnitt to cuddle up, unsuspecting, until - SHAZAM! - I will instantly convert you both to Islam.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:18 pmMy USMC ex tells a different story. A story of brainwashing. Of breaking recruits down during bootcamp, then filling their head with “the Corp is your lifeâ€. He even sports a “Grunt†tatoo.
Comment by trueblue
It is not brainwashing really. Lots of momma boys, fat asses, and all around weak people grow up in America and go into the Marines. They dont have time to wipe away tears in the 3 months they have to turn that situation around. Years later friends of mine and I look back on those days with pride and laugh about being bent till our arms wouldnt work no more… it was harsh, but it worked… we all grew up in 3 months and had pride in what we had become.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:18 pmwhich one is the gay one?
December 21st, 2006 at 7:28 pmbrainwashing is the term he uses.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pmHe went in involuntarily. 1969.
howard, the general and the wingnutt are gay lovers. They enjoy doing manly things in the company of men and in manly ways. They take a manful approach to life in general. Manliness, for them, is next to godliness.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:39 pm#115,
Missed me again! Jim Neigbors (sp?) was “Gomer Pyle”. He was gay too so I think you would have liked him.
Gosh, for a “general” your aim sure is bad. Obviously the peter principle in practice.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:43 pmIt looks like the “General” likes military movies.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:47 pmI bet he likes gladiator movies, too.
Has the General ever been in a boys locker room?
December 21st, 2006 at 7:51 pmNo it isn’t. ANd just because you say it is, doesn’t mean it is. Why, because you are a radical righty, who can’t tell when they are completely wrong. Moron.
You are an 12%er. You are the one who has the issue with not being in tune with the rest of America whacko.
December 21st, 2006 at 8:25 pmActually, we’re kind of priviliged here at TP. A small percentage of people like, what was it? 12-25% range. We get to talk to folks in that percentile. What would be the chances of even seeing this person, let alone get to talk to them? A real minority here.
It’s like getting a glimpse at some type of endangered, rare species.
December 21st, 2006 at 8:38 pm#111 - I heard you could get better reacharounds (and some really good crank) at the New Life Evangelical Fellowship in Denver… SF is looking pretty tame these days, compared to the sin-dango the bible belt’s hosting. SF gays want to get married and have kids, and the “heartland values” crowd wants to screw teens and whores, get high, and shoot people. Wow.
There must be some additional thrill to getting your rocks off under the threat of eternal damnation…the spiritual equivalent of having a finger stuck in your butt when you come, or something (sheesh, and i thought i was “kinky”)
December 21st, 2006 at 8:56 pmWhy is Russert giving these creeps any credence?
December 21st, 2006 at 8:59 pmWho made Jon Meacham pope? This smug S.O.B. thinks he’s some kind of authority on religious matters. He’s not content with spreading his mantra in the pages of Newsweek, he also be found on the Washington Post website preaching with Sally Quinn, and making appearances on MSNBC as their resident Holy man.
December 21st, 2006 at 9:05 pmThey gave an internet connection to a gorilla in a University laboratory.
December 21st, 2006 at 10:30 pmWatching Tuber and Bluedog49 taking on Der General and Wingnutt has been rather like watching two tennis pros dismantling players with say, my level of skill… (none)…
December 21st, 2006 at 10:55 pmLots of fun watching you lobbing the ball back and forth and always too fast for them to even swing at it!
What a pair of idiots.
the answer is for true Americans to support American values by boycotting NBC - this Sunday and always. Leave NBC to their wack pack religionist audience.
December 21st, 2006 at 11:29 pm.
First, let me get this out of the way: A very large number of members of the muslim religion DO want to take over the world. They want their law in place and enforced by government agencies. If you don’t believe that, feel free to stick your head back in the sand.
Now, Always on Watch has outlined one way they’re doing that in England. They are instituing Sharia law. They ARE forcing their religion on everyone else. But they’re not stopping there. FrontPage Magazine and The Washington Post highlight an area of Maryland where Muslims are gathering. These are relatively peaceful muslims, in that they’re not openly beheading their opponents (yet). Instead, they’re trying to work within the American system to take it over. And yes, they’re working with Democrats.
The problem is that their system of law is simply not permitted in this country under the Constitution that formed this country– or is it? Now, they, with the aid of terrorists in CAIR, are trying to claim anything that prevents them from instituting their law in America is a supression of their religion, which they claim under the First Amendment. So we have a rather unique situation.
The First Amendment to the US Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Therefore, based on that text, muslims claim they are free to exercise their religion. And their religion requires them to “behead those that insult Islam.†In addition, there are dozens and dozens of laws that need to be enforced by government, in order for them to exercise their religion.
However, this conflicts with Article IV, Section 4:
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
Well, they simply overcome that idea by having “elections.†You know Saddam was “elected,†don’t you? That’s where Democrats and Republicans are moving with Gerrymandering, and the muslims are moving right along with them. Both the muslims and the Democrats agree that if the majority vote for no freedom, then you get no freedom. After all, there is no higher power in their minds than government.
So, what’s to stop Maryland and Dearbornistan from insituting Sharia law if they simply vote it in?
Well, there used to be Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution that defines the powers of Congress, but we tossed that out decades ago. Under current interpretations, the U.S. Congress’ power is literally unlimited.
The 19th Amendment to the Constitution (Women’s Suffrage) will certainly give them some trouble. They won’t like that one at all. It will slow them down, but then again, the majority of women vote Democrat anyway. Perhaps they’ll just have a majority vote and decide that voting shall be limited to muslims. They’ll say that’s not “establishing†a religion and the newly renamed AMCLU will support them.
How about the 10th Amendment?
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Oh right. That 1864 conflict made sure that one doesn’t really count any more.
Maybe the 8th Amendment might help ensure that Sharia law doesn’t gain a foothold in the US
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
No, it’s up to the courts (and judges appointed by Democrats and muslims) — they can decide beheading with a dull knife is not “excessive.â€
How about the 5th Amendment?
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
If the Grand Jury is made up of muslims, they’ll ensure Sharia laws of death are upheld. And we’ve already completely thrown out the last phrase in that Amendment anyway. Since we’re already ignoring some parts of the Constitution, it should be pretty easy to ignore more, right?
How about the second?
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Wait, that one was erased by court decisions decades ago, wasn’t it? Don’t believe me? Walk armed into New York City and see how far you get.
Maybe the first amendment could help?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
No, again, they’ll just claim that they’re NOT using religion as a basis for their laws. Or heck, they might even admit they’re basing new laws on Sharia law, but they can just claim it’s not an “establishment.â€
Do you see what’s going on here? Based on current events, muslims are trying to take over the world a little at a time. Some are using violence, but some are trying with peaceful means. If they can join together in one area and have “elections,†there will be nothing to stop them from forcing their will on everyone else in the area.
But you know what? There’s nothing in the Constitution that actually can stop them. Go back and read that sentence again. Do you fully understand that? They can, and are, working to use the current government system in America to force you to submit to their religion.
So where did we get the idea that America should be the land of the free? For that, one has to go back to the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
If you’ve never read the Declaration, or haven’t recently, please do read that excerpt above again.
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. None of those concepts exist with muslims in charge. And those are supposed to be unalienable rights. No one should be able to take those away. But the muslims will.
all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
That’s so accurate. The VAST majority of people will choose to just adapt. Why not join in Dhimmitude? It’s easy to do. It’s a whole lot easier than fighting. After all, if you don’t join them, you might be beheaded in front of your family. Just pay a little more in taxes, you won’t miss it. It’s only a few dollars a week - this time.
We are currently losing this battle for America. It’s going to take a huge, bold act like the one that created that Declaration to obtain freedom once again. And as happened so many years ago, it’s likely only going to be obtained by violence.
December 22nd, 2006 at 5:16 amDidn’t MTP have this last year? I seem to remember Rev. Sharpton and another progressive type amongst the group of 4.
December 22nd, 2006 at 8:03 amThey are insane. Not grounded in reality. We should tolerate their beliefs, but we do NOT have to respect them.
Comment by RantingTommy — December 21, 2006 @ 4:44 pm
They want more than that. They want to convert us to their way of thinking. Misery loves company after all…
An interesting thing is that they are pushing people away from organized religion. A lot of my students believe in some form of god, but most reject church or religion because of the hypocrisy and exclusive nature (all the monotheistic ones say that you must kill non-believers).
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:11 amWho gives a …..
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:14 amIt seems your playfriend here on TP ,unbelievable, has flown the coup.
Unlike you, I have a job and a life.
What gives?Yes you go ahead and try to defend of what is left of her honor.
My honor is fully intact. For you to suggest otherwise makes you a liar.
But you know what?At the end of the day,she is the same vile troll as you yourself are.
You are the troll. You never contribute to the threads - only post insults and tryto harrass those who you cannot force to accept your insane ideologies.
Let`s see now.Since you are a progressive,you are probably a -married single- then? Whatever works.Putz.
Your gross distortion of reality defines you. The problem is that you are too simple to understand that, and you persist in a lost argument.
Look out everyone!TP is on the loose.I see the -mothership- now!
Bwahahahahaaa.
Comment by little birdie — December 21, 2006 @ 4:48 pm
The words of the demented.
Care to post on topic for ONCE?
Cause your lack of an ability to do anything but insult validates that you cannot. Loser.
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:15 amThis blog which you participate in IS far left….for the most part.
Comment by Tracy — December 21, 2006 @ 5:17 pm
They condemn the 9/11 “alternative” theories, they research their facts before posting threads, and they allow you to post here.
This is left of center.
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:19 am“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.â€
–John Adams
Comment by Bluedog49 — December 21, 2006 @ 6:37 pm
One of the principals of my school - who holds a phd - actually make this mistake and said that this was a country founded upon Christian ideals by Christians.
I refered her to the writings of the Founding Fathers when I told her that that was not true - because the conversation actually had begun to devolve into the problems with the public school system started when prayer was removed. I was shocked that people actually believe that. Explains the 20 Xmas trees in our building I suppose…
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:27 amComment by Jeffrey Dahmer
You frightened bigots are crazy. Stop fantasizing and start using reason. No one cares if Islam says anything about controlling the law because religions are not allowed to control law in America. So what they wrote in their books means no more than what the christians wrote in their book. And how you can convince yourself that people would suddenly start listening to Islam when we already told the christians to go get bent I dont understand. The bible makes it clear that if we were following its laws we would all have to be stoned to death for one thing or another and no one cares what the bible says so we all are still alive.
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:55 amChristians need to stand up against these bigets and grand standers who use the Christian faith as their pulpit. If the Christian Churches will not stand up and be counted in condemning the attacks on People of various faiths then the Christians forfeit any claim to being “loving” and mericfully generous to all people. In withholding condemnation of those who attack the Muslem faith the Christians forgoe any right to continuing to have the protection of the State as a legitimate religious belief as oppose to an organization wishing to “terrorize” Islam, a recognized legitamate religious practice in the USA. As such all Christians would could be deemed as supporting “terrorist” organizations in the USA and subject to the penalties that the law provides for terroism against the law of the USA.
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:58 am#112
You’re an idiot and a history revisionist. I bet you don’t believe in absolutes either.
December 22nd, 2006 at 12:28 pmYou’re an idiot and a history revisionist. I bet you don’t believe in absolutes either.
Comment by 20wordsorless — December 22, 2006 @ 12:28 pm
Homeschooled, eh?
I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
—Thomas Jefferson
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
– John Adams
I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!
– John Adams
I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.
– Benjamin Franklin
An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
– Thomas Paine
Need more?
December 22nd, 2006 at 1:31 pmWhenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon that the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.
– Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794)
December 22nd, 2006 at 1:44 pmThe story of the redemption will not stand examination. That man should redeem himself from the sin of eating an apple by committing a murder on Jesus Christ, is the strangest system of religion ever set up.
– Thomas Paine
December 22nd, 2006 at 1:44 pmThe Bottom line…is simply this:
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:04 pmUnity is NOT possible, among American citizens when ‘Religion’ is considered as “Attached” to that process…the process of “Unity”
As long as America, as a culture, allows ANY religion to play a major role in Public Policy..again..NO unity is possible.
Modern “Religion” is simply a code word for “Corrupt Power Politics” it is not about being a good person, or being spiritual, or having Forgiveness, empathy and love in your heart…NO..it s about WINNING! Simple as that.
The ChristoFascists have one major and distinct attitude that will make UNITY impossible…and it is that they simply WILL NOT STOP trying to “LEGISLATE MORALITY”…Period!
It si..simply a foregone conclusion..a certainty..that if given the opportunity, the “Evangelicles” will continue right on to Corporate Militarism…which is completely antithetical to “Sprituality” but remains the subtextual message of the so-called Neocons, Evangelicles, etc…
Religion in America, in particular, ORGANIZED CHRISTIANITY, in ANY form, Mormon, Christian, Catholic, Muslim..etc..etc..is simply the New Right Wing…this is not a mystery…everyone knows this..
The shrillest…shreeking, clawing, manipulative, secretive, zealous, fanatical, TERROPRISTIC (murder of Abortion Doctors, bombings of Family Planning centers..etc..etc..) and DECIETFUL ploitical organizations are ALL “Religion” based..
The WILL to POWER is the REAL theme..and AGENDA of ALL organized religious groups.
Take for example the “secret’ takeovers of School boards accross America. The screaming ranting VIOLENT attacks on the Polling places after the 2000 election by CHRISTOFASCISTS demanding that there be NO RECOUNT…these people are not interested in “DEMOCRACY”…please..we all know this..
The citizens who support the Religion-ification of America have deep seated psychelogical needs to control others..it is NOT about “Religious freedom” hell they don’t even pay TAX’S..fer chris-sakes! talk about a BREAK..and yet…..alway’s MORE..MORE..MORE…and it will never stop…
That is the final point as regards the ChristoFascists…they will not stop with one victory and “getting their way” it will go on and on..the legisaltion of Morality is simply a slow road to Fascism…
Bush is NOT A CHRISTIAN…give me a break…WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB?
unbelief,
You have obviously selected quotes from John Adams that were taken out of context. Here are some things that he actually said…
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.â€
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.â€
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” –October 11, 1798
“I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen.” December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
“Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell.” [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]
I see you’ve also cherry-picked some misquotes from Benjamin Franklin. Here are some things that he actually said…
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel†–Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?†[Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin’s 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach “the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern.”
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as “a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone.”
As is your style, you’ve again selected misquotes from Thomas Jefferson.
Here are some actual quotes…
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.â€
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.â€
“I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.”
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.†(excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
And again with Thomas Paine. Here are some things that reflect his views…
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.â€
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.†“The Existence of God–1810â€
The question is do you need more?
In your atheism, you seek to deny the the religion of our founding fathers. You refuse to acknowledge the significance it has had in the building, and shaping of our nation.
That sort of intellectual dishonesty makes you an idiot, and your purposeful misquotes make you a history revisionist.
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:15 pm#116..Brilliant..THANK YOU…the revisionist and uninformed, yet CONSTANT shreeking by the Christo’s about the “Founding Fathers” is annoying..it is another example of their “desire to win small contests of will..by simply ignoring ALL EVIDENCE…which is fairly effective..because SMART people just break down argueing with them…the STUPID STUBBORNS..simply yap and yap and yet will not acknowledge even FACTUAL information, that is put right in front of them..if it means “not winning”..which again..leads me to believe that the great majority of so-called “christians” are in it..to be a part of what they percieve as the “winners” they are not interested in Spirituality..NO!…but WINNING! and that is psychelogical..not spiritual..it’s about some FEAR of the “unknown” which I put in quotation because it’s not as if they CAN’T understand “us” it’s that they simply don’t need to…because it’s not about “Understanding” either…again..it’s about WINNING small contests of will…these are the same people who are the WORST drivers..the ones whoa re pushy..etc..you get the point..
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:26 pmI have to chime in on the post regarding the “Demonic” nature of organized religion and the Bible in particular..
What BETTER trick could the “Devil” pull, than to create an Hierarchical, power based CULT that has been responsible for, quite literally, %80 of the Death, War, Horror and LOSS OF FREEDOM than the “Bible” it is really an Evil influence on mankind…from the destruction of ancient cultures, to the inquisition, the the “Crusades” ..both past AND present…DEATH..DEATH…….DEATH…gee..that’s a real “Religion” ya got yerself there…real friendly people…power mad death cult…is there any evidence to the contrary?
IF..Christ exsisted…and IF he was able to perform miracles..then it is really a tragedy….BECASUE IF JESUS CAME BACK TODAY AND SAW WHAT IS BEING DONE IN HIS NAME…..HE WOULD NEVER STOP THROWING UP…
Now for some Brevity: “I take my Wife everywhere..but she finds her way home..We were going on vacation, she said she wanted to go somewhere she’d never been before..I said ” how about the Kitchen”…Bah-Doom-Boom-Boom…
Thank you and good night..
You have obviously selected quotes from John Adams that were taken out of context. Here are some things that he actually said…
Nope. Typical of you Christianist to claim that only you know the correct context. and then making up stuff to fit your view.
Besides - there’s no other way to take “We are not Christian”.
And they made that very clear in the First Amendment. Deny all you want. It doesn’t make it any less true.
Let’s hear you spin the Treaty of Tripoli:
“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:42 pmunbelief,
Yeah go ahead, accuse me of making up those quotes–anything you have to tell yourself to avoid the truth. No one is claiming that America is founded upon a religion. The truth is that many of our founding fathers were indeed themselves Christians. The evidence is overwhelming that the morals, values, and ideals taught in the Bible were embraced by these men, and hence were a guiding force in forming our constitution and our nation.
To deny this is the height of ignorance.
December 22nd, 2006 at 4:07 pmYeah go ahead, accuse me of making up those quotes–anything you have to tell yourself to avoid the truth.
LOl.. Are you for real? It was you who accused me of making them up first. Ah, hypocrisy knows no shame…
No one is claiming that America is founded upon a religion. The truth is that many of our founding fathers were indeed themselves Christians.
Most were Deists. Know what that is? It’s not a Christian faith - it’s a belief in a god, but not in organized religion.
The evidence is overwhelming that the morals, values, and ideals taught in the Bible were embraced by these men, and hence were a guiding force in forming our constitution and our nation.
Not at all. The Bible is book filled with contradictions, violence, and ideologies that the opposed to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (what you call sin).
Try reading any version of that so-called holybook and perhaps you’ll be glad that our Founding Fathers were smart enough NOT to base our country on such a violent philosophy.
To deny this is the height of ignorance.
Comment by 20wordsorless — December 22, 2006 @ 4:07 pm
Actually to insinuate it is. But, you’re making me laugh. You still didn’t tell me how the Treaty of Tripoli is wrong. Come on, I gotta hear this… Quit dodging… LOL
December 22nd, 2006 at 4:15 pmUnbelievable!
I’m sure that’s what your principal said under her breath after interacting with you, it’s certainly what I’m saying, and that’s probably the common reaction everyone has when they deal with you–Unbelievable! You are aptly named.
I know that you cannot grasp this, but a follower of Christ is called a Christian–not a deist. It has been that way long before the United States of America was founded. Like it or not many of our founding fathers were followers of Christ, making them C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-S. The term Christian is not exclusively used to identify an organized religion. To strip our founders of their personal beliefs in Jesus and call them deists is absurd–you’re absurd. Both a follower of the teachings of Christ and a follower of organized religion can be identified as Christians, but they are not necessarily one and the same–I don’t expect you to know the difference. In fact all I expect from you is history revision, distortions, mis-quotes, and the redefining of terms in their historical context. Have you ever read the writings of the founding fathers outside of your carefully selected misquotes? I have. I have seen some of the actual letters they have written. They are filled with thanks to God, acknowledgement of Jesus His Son, and reference to Biblical morals and values. You can deny that there is God all you want, you can disagree with the founding fathers beliefs–that’s your right. But you cannot change history, you don’t get to assign your 21rst century humanistic meanings to our founders writings, and you cannot deny that their beliefs in God and the Bible influenced their ideals. The said so themselves! Only an absolute moron would stand in the presence of such overwhelming evidence and attempt to redefine it.
I’ve dealt with people like you before–you don’t have any meaningful interaction with what is being said. You don’t slow down long enough to truly understand and consider any opposing viewpoints.You’re even incapable of acknowledging any points from opposing opinions. Your tactic is to keep moving, keep throwing out variables, and to constantly open new issues. There is not enough time or space to deal with the likes of you in any organized fashion. You exhaust your opponents with your sheer mind-numbing lessons in futility, and then declare yourself to be the smartest person in the room. I can’t do anything about that, but I can avoid addressing you in the future.
December 22nd, 2006 at 7:10 pmYou progressives are like a bunch of prepubescent children who made it through high school
Comment by Gen. Pippy Longstocking
Jealous that we made it through high school, Jethro?
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:04 pm20words, unbelievable will eat your lunch. I suggest you shut up before she gets serious.
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:05 pmOf course, the founding fathers were men of their time, a period called The Enlightenment. I’m hoping we return to the good old days before the Christianists and other fanatics blow the world up.
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:50 pm20wordsorless,
Enough with your trifle suck up to the Chimperor Boy King God and your assumption that God chooses one party over the other based on how much the hypocritics speak of Him without thinking about their own sinister uses.
Unbelievable beat your ass down and all you do is try to belittle her with your silly rants. Go away, little boy and go play with your dolls or something.
While you go to your shrine and pray to the Chimperor Boy King God, we’ll be praying to the real God who picks out who uses His name for the greater good, meaning the regular folks around the world. Oh, and for those who use his name to do harm against those who deserve our charity, they can go straight to Hell. And if you don’t watch yourself, you’ll be down there too.
December 23rd, 2006 at 3:16 amI see how it is with you JIMBO… the enemy of my enemy is my friend. You clearly do not understand the issue here–so let me break it down for you. Unbelievable posted quotes from our founding fathers that were taken out of context , in order to make it appear that they were not Christians. I provided actual quotes that proved that they were. Her response? Denial! She will not stand corrected so she then insists upon the subject of the Treaty of Tripoli. And you call that beating my ass down? If I were to engage her on that topic, it would only be more of the same; denial and insisting that I address another topic that she’s introduced. I don’t want to play that game.
Let me ask you something dumbass, during my interaction with unbelievable did I at any time say that I was a Christian? Did I at any time say that I supported Bush? The answer is no…I did not. I only demonstrated an objective understanding of our history. I did not use the founding fathers quotes to reinforce any personal agenda, nor did I shrink away from the reality that they professed to be Christians. I only said it like it was. I defended reality, and you assume that I’m a Christian. Then you make a wild leap into dimentia–citing me for worshiping Bush and believing that God chooses the Republican party? That’s strawman argumentation Jimbo, and dishonest to boot.
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:46 amI see how it is with you JIMBO… the enemy of my enemy is my friend. You clearly do not understand the issue here–so let me break it down for you. Unbelievable posted quotes from our founding fathers that were taken out of context , in order to make it appear that they were not Christians. I provided actual quotes that proved that they were. Her response? Denial! She will not stand corrected so she then insists upon the subject of the Treaty of Tripoli. And you call that beating my ass down? If I were to engage her on that topic, it would only be more of the same; denial and insisting that I address another topic that she’s introduced. I don’t want to play that game.
Let me ask you something dumbass, during my interaction with unbelievable did I at any time say that I was a Christian? Did I at any time say that I supported Bush? The answer is no…I did not. I only demonstrated an objective understanding of our history. I did not use the founding fathers quotes to reinforce any personal agenda, nor did I shrink away from the reality that they professed to be Christians. I only said it like it was. I defended reality, and you assume that I’m a Christian. Then you make a wild leap into dimentia–citing me for worshiping Bush and believing that God chooses the Republican party? That’s strawman argumentation Jimbo, and dishonest to boot.
Comment by 20wordsorless — December 23, 2006 @ 7:46 am
As a troll, when you go up against us, we know,underneath anything you say, that you are a total suck up to the Government and, like Rick Warren and “so-called” political consultant Frank Luntz, you could be a closeted Republican who will lie and not admit to the truth until it’s too late. Of course, those characterizations also apply to outed Republicans.
Oh, and by the way, I’m more of a smartass than what what you refer to me as. Maybe that’s because you rant instead of presenting an opposing viewpoint in a diplomatic way. You definitely deserved to have your ass kicked. So quit hiding and admit that you’re a Bush Licker, so to speak.
December 23rd, 2006 at 10:55 amyou know?
This 20wordsorless…person..is..well..Quotes? SO WHAT?
We can at least ALL agree that the Founding Fathers were very smart, creative, men. That they tried to think of EVERY possible contingency when drafting the “Document” that is the foundation of our nation…and you know what?
THEY DID NOT MAKE THIS A CHRISTIAN NATION!!!!
Do you think for one minute that they would have HESITATED to put any NUMBER of CODICLES, by laws..etc.etc..into the Constitution simply OUTLINING the law of the land as “Christian” based???Hunh? DO you?
THEY D-I-D N-O-T….They PURPOSELY left OUT religion…CLEARLY defining a state that was to SEPERATE CHURCH AND STATE! They DID NOT COMBINE CHURCH INTO STATE…….
THEY DID NOT DO THAT…
So go ahead and hype any quote you want…do whatever you want to the “context” because the ACTUAL “Context” is that they FRAMED the CONSTITUTION to SEPERATE “religion” from State…again..PERIOD!!!!!
It irks me to no end…and this is why I side with those that call ChristoFascists “Revisionist” becasue it is in fact a “Revision” of History to try to indicate in ANY way that the Founders were at ALL CONFUSED about the SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE..
They made point after point, and codicle after codicle…to make sure that what is happening today would NOT happen…any ChristoFascist that tries to play the “…well…they were Christians themselves SO…..” is POLLUTING the VERY ideals of Those Men..and is taking their position on the matter…….”out of context” this is a simple fact..
U&nless you think that they simply….FORGOT to be clear on the matter…somehow forgot to put into the constitution the part about…CHRISTIAN ETHICS being MANDATORY TO THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY…
NO..they were QUITE CLEAR on the matter…and their position is clear…SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
So what’s left? well..that’s simple.
THE SLOW EROSION OF THE INTENT OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS BY CHRISTOFASCIST POLITICIANS USING THE WELL ORGANIZED FANATACISM OF A MINORITY OF AMERICANS TO LEGISLATE MORALITY..THE APPLICATION OF COMPLETELY OBECTIVE-LESS JUDGES TO THE FEDERAL BENCH’S…JUDGES WHO HAVE MADE CAREERS OUT OF….MISTAKING THE GAVEL FOR AN ASPERGILLUM…(DISPENSER OF HOLY WATER…TO BE CLEAR..)
Te rest of us are left ARGUEING with these DEVISIVE constitutional antagonists called…THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT….even though they are SO far from…..”right”…
It’s a cryin shame…it really is…
You know? if you leave the “Pledge Of Allegiance” the way it was originally written..with the section..about ‘one nation UNDER GOd..left OUT…it really becomes a …show piece for the reality of the negative impact so-called “Christians” have had on the devided nature of the country…think about it..if it is left in the ORIGINAL form…and simply say’s …..”…indivisible, with liberty and justice FOR ALL..” it indicates UNITY..HOWEVER..put in “Under God..” in the middle of the pledge and it becomes IMMEDIATELY and SUCCINCTLY……….DEVISIVE.
“GOD” as defined by ONE group is ANTITHETICAL to American “Values” the Founders were VERY carefull to N