More U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq
By on Dec 26th, 2006 at 11:02 am
More U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq
than the number of people killed in the September 11 terrorist attacks. At least 2,977 U.S. soldiers have been killed in Iraq, and the 9/11 milestone came on Christmas.
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Business
Cheney
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Education
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Glenn Beck
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration
International Relations
Justice
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Media
Military
O'Reilly
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Politics
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Tea Party
Terrorism
Veterans
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
Every one of those lives was wasted by George W. Bush et al.
Bring the troops home.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:09 amI’m really sorry, as this is OT, but I had to let someone know:
Judge publishes liberal-bashing book
He repeatedly refers to “femi-fascists”…. nice.
I gotta run. Thanks for listening.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:09 amThats why I had commented before, US war strategy was wrong they shold have used high tech missile tech. to destroy the enemies. Military presence was not required. Stellite Photos could be used to locatre enemies.
http://www.tekno-world.blogspot.com
December 26th, 2006 at 11:11 amMerry Xmas, Shrub, murderer.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:11 amRice’s Iraq comments are breathtaking – Moore
December 26th, 2006 at 11:12 amResponding to Condoleezza Rice’s comments that Iraq is ‘worth the investment’ in American lives and dollars, UK Liberal Democrat Shadow Foreign Secretary Michael Moore MP said: “The Iraq Study Group report ought to have been a reality check for the US administration.”
AND, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. I guess we showed Osama !
December 26th, 2006 at 11:14 amRajeev Vashisht – You are a Hindu therefore dont like Muslims generally , One thing catches my attention 70% of Hindus are vegetarian and most live by Gandhis non violence principals ………… As where you statement means you are a Kali worshipper
December 26th, 2006 at 11:16 amThat’s incredibly sad. There’s a special place in hell for the people who caused this, all for their own GREED.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:17 amWhere is Osama bin Laden?
December 26th, 2006 at 11:18 am#3. I’m not going to debate the rationale for invading Iraq, but just taking out one’s enemys without putting troops on the ground simply does not work. Show me a successful adventure where just missles without troops has been successful.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:21 amMore U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq – Good they deserved it - Kill or be killed -live by the sword – etc etc etc
“The troops want to go, all they want to do is fight. If you’re bothered about getting shot don’t join the Army.”
December 26th, 2006 at 11:24 amIraq’s Christmas present to Bush:
Court: Execute Saddam within 30 days
It looks like Bush will get to give his next state of the union address triumphant over the death of Saddam.
Yet, this may be a foreshadowing of Bush’s fate. Fortunately for Bush, international war crimes tribunals do not impose the death penalty.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:25 amThe difference between the two numbers of people killed on 9/11 and this number of soldiers killed in Iraq is that this nation is receiving young soldiers daily from the battlefield who might be handicapped for life. THE COST OF THIS ON THEIR FAMILIES AND THE NATION WILL LAST FOR TENS OF YEARS TO COME , NOT TO FORGET THE COST TO THE SOLDIERS THEMSELVES WHO RETURNED BACK INJURED TO THEIR COUNTRY, AND THEY ARE IN THE THOUSANDS……the cost to the nation will be in the billions of dollars . There are also Americans who went to work for defense contractors who died in Iraq….These people seems not to be mentioned neither by the media nor by officials…but they are still AMERICANS who died in the same country for the same war. But how many of these telivision pundets, warmongering chickenhawks writers journalists, ..and the NeoCons kids are on this big list of killed Americans…? Not many,if not any….
December 26th, 2006 at 11:26 amThat only tells part of the story.
Since the election over 150 more Americans have been killed.
Bush’s approval rating, according to Rasmussen, has improved by 4%.
Once again the American people are being fooled into thinking that Bush is doing something to turn Iraq around. We are currently in the most deadly run of the war and still nothing changes but the slogans. Oh, and Bush is camped out once again in Crawford, Texas. There seems to be a pretty close relationship between Crawford vacations and things going to hell. In the middle of previous vacations came the dire warning “bin Laden determined to strike inside the US” and poorly managed preparation and aftermath of Katrina.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:29 amComment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 11:21 am
Hiroshima and Nagasaki come to mind.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:30 amGallagher berated soldiers for complaining about the war in Iraq, saying: “The troops want to go, all they want to do is fight! They’re soldiers. They’re loving it, until they get shot – then they’re claiming compensation. If you’re bothered about getting shot – here’s a thing – don’t join the army.â€
December 26th, 2006 at 11:30 amThe DEM adult supervision and intervention in the Bushco NeoCon sandpile in January can’t come too soon!!!
December 26th, 2006 at 11:33 amExcellent point! For a look into how those Americans are treated by their employers, see “Iraq for Sale”
December 26th, 2006 at 11:33 amits a sad sad day for our republic. 2,977 americans have lost their lives to this filthy oil war and this administration continues to hem and haw and delay and deny.
it may seem odd, but a boston legal quote is highly relevant:
“We’ve had two thousand American trees fall in that forest over there and we don’t even know it. Not really. But, maybe we don’t wanna know about our children dying. So lucky for us this war isn’t really being televised. We’re not seeing images of soldiers dying in the arms of their comrades, being blown apart on the streets of Baghdad. But they are! By the thousands! And all the American public wants to concern itself with is whether Brad and Angelina really are a couple. At least with Vietnam we all watched and we all go angry!”
December 26th, 2006 at 11:34 amAnd remember, Bush is beating the drums for an increase in troops in harm’s way.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:35 am12Yet, this may be a foreshadowing of Bush’s fate. Fortunately for Bush, international war crimes tribunals do not impose the death penalty.
America and Iraq are not members of the ICC , Afghanistan are members of ICC – so Bush can be held accountable in Afghanistan
December 26th, 2006 at 11:36 amHello BnF, I believe that was the end result of WWII and we spent a decade or so afterwards in Japan with ten of thousands of troops. My point was to Rajeev is that it’s scary and simplistic to think that just using missles will solve problems. You can’t change a country without putting troops on the ground.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:37 amI wonder if Christians will see this as a message from God that enough is enough.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:41 amInsane – or perhaps China, using the same justifcations as the Bush Administration, could invade the U.S., install a puppet government, and put Bush and Company on trial.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:41 amWhat a Sad Christmas gift to the american people, indeed! The number of fallen heroes (in an illegal, amoral war) has now reached the number of “fallen innocents” in a unquestionably mysterious attack on 9/11. Any significance to be gleaned here? Getting to the truth about 9/11 will be the beginning and tying it into the lies which were spun to advance the US into this war of choice will become very “strange bedfellows” indeed. Just read between the lines, do your research (Theologian and Philosophy Professor DAVID RAY GRIFFIN is the place to begin – he’s done all the research about the ways in which the “official story of 9/11″ absolutely doe not add up – war games taking place on 9/10 and 9/11 – well, hello? Air traffic controllers (NORAD) being confused about the war game bogus blips on the radar and the real hijackers – hello, again…..and then some of the alleged hijackers being found alive and well in various and sundry parts of the world….double hello, people!…..connect THESE dots and we may begin to see how the “neocon-artist agenda to hijack this democracy” actually took place….from Step #1 (9/11) to today….it’s all beginning to make perfect and logical sense now.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:41 amThe big misconception this administration has is that if Saddam is toppled then all the problems of the Middle East will go away. The reality on the ground speaks otherwise,the Palestinian/Israeli problem still there, the Lebanese/Israeli problems still there, the Lebanese internal problems are still there. and the Iranians nuclear problem issue still there..with Iraq itself having more Shiate/Sunni problem that they ever had before the war..So, the talk about toppling Saddam somehow will turn the whole Middle East to beautiful democracy our style just like touching Aladdin lamp , it is an illusion and the reality on the ground speaks of that…We are having problems now after toppling Saddam worse than we had before due to rise of the Shiate powers in both neighboring countries Iran and Iraq that this war made possible.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:42 amOn a positive note, I spoke with my grandson last night, who’s fresh out of Army boot camp. His DI has been saying that since the election, the chances of recruits going to Iraq is just about nil. I don’t think even they are taking the surge talk seriously.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:43 amhellina – right. I wanted to emphasis how scary and simplistic it is by showing the only successful use of arial warfare in lieu of a ground invasion (in this case, of the Japanese mainland) was to resort to nuclear weapons and kill hundreds of thousands of children, women, and men in one massive bomb.
It doesn’t take a great deal of imagination to see the impact of using a nuclear bomb on Fallujah, for example. The problem with that tactic is that those who promote using nuclear weapons (and there have been extremists suggesting we nuke Iran) do not have the foresight to see the consequences of their actions.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:47 am#10: We kicked the Serbs out of Kosovo without ground troops. NATO flew 25,000 sorties with just two planes being shot down and both pilots ejected and were saved.
Besides, the no fly zones in the North and South of Iraq WERE working. Saddam was hemmed in and there was nothing he could do about it. He was NO threat to our country.
Meanwhile, Bin Laden walked out of Afghanistan as a free man while we shifted our attention from Afghanistan to Iraq. This decision will go down as the worse foreign policy decision ever to be made from the White House.
The mass murderer Bin Laden being allowed to go free and all of our brave troops dying and being maimed in IRAQ for absolutely NOTHING.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:50 amMy grandson also said the cultural indoctrination of recruits hasn’t improved much. For instance, he hasn’t a clue as to the differences between Shi’a and Sunni, but he can give basic control commands in Arabic. Perhaps the brass aren’t giving them the added training because they don’t think we’ll be there that much longer – or it’s because they will be used as fodder, and it would be a waste of precious time to train them. In either event, he’s going into artillery, which I hope keeps him out of Iraq. Iran’s a different story, though . . .
December 26th, 2006 at 11:55 am#19. You hit one of the many nails on the head. There is no collective sacrifice and there is no constant reminder. The reporting (or the lack of) is a lesson learned by the military from Viet Nam.
#26. This administration wrongly assumed the Iraqis would gladly walk in and become a stable, western leaning democracy. They didn’t plan on how to help them get there, they didn’t count on anyone being against it and they had forgotten (but the Iraqis didn’t) about how we let down the Iraqis after the Gulf War.
#27. I hope your Grandchild stays safe. Hopefully his DI has some more insight than they used to.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:55 amWow. In the back of my mind I knew that these two numbers were close to each other. I just didn’t know how close. In a poem I wrote (posted on my blog, click on my name to get there), I made a reference to this converging. I just didn’t think it would happen the next day after I posted it.
In any event, it’s still too many lives wasted for nothing, both in Iraq and on Sept 11. Too many.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:03 pm#29. This is from CNN on June 15, 1999.
Those are troops on the ground.
As for everything else you state, I agree. The no fly zone was keeping Saddam in check and our eyes were taken off the prize when the emphasis went away from Afghanistan to Iraq.
Only when the purpose and scope of a mission is clear should troops be used. All too often they are pawns used to play political chess with no regard to the individual.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:13 pmThis is a bitter pill to swallow indeed.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:15 pmBnF, It scares me to know that people will push forward the idea of using nuclear weapons anywhere. Truman was faced with a terrible decision between using this new weapon or have our troops die for many untold months jumping from island to island. Japan had no intentions of giving up and it was either continue to push forward with our troops and the fire bombing of Japan (which is a variation of the scorched earth campaign by Sherman during the civil war) or try to put an end to the war as soon as possible.
It was a terrible decision to make. Many more Japanese would have died if we had just conitnued with the fire bombing.
That is why it scares me. People selectively forget what it took to come to using nukes and now it’s tossed around as just another option.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:28 pm#29 -I agree with you hellina . Iraq before the war and under Saddam was the ideal country for sanctions,and that is why the sanctions worked beautifully..he was surrounded by many countries who will never help him..Kuwait/Saudi Arabia in the south and west(they had war with him in 1991)…,Syria also in the west (His enemies who sided with Iran against him), Iran in the east (Saddam had 8 years war with them)..and north is on of our NATO allied country Turkey and the Kurds. Iraq does not have big sea shores except 15-20 miles in the south…the skies were controlled by the USA and England(No fly Zone). His sales of oil is controlled by the UN and they count every dollar he makes…so he was actually totally controlled,before the war started.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:35 pmHiroshima and Nagasaki come to mind.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
All those thousands of killed civilians may think that was a pretty neat work.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:38 pm#3 Thats why I had commented before, US war strategy was wrong they shold have used high tech missile tech. to destroy the enemies. Military presence was not required. Stellite Photos could be used to locatre enemies.
Comment by Rajeev Vashisht — December 26, 2006 @ 11:11 am
Uhm, to fire at what WMD warehouse?
December 26th, 2006 at 12:51 pm#36. There will be healthy debate for years on if the Oil for Food programs implemented by the UN were working well or not, but Iraq was contained and watched. History will not be kind to this administration.
#37. It’s a very sad chapter. One that may have been written without nuclear weapons. It would have gone something like this:
Either option sucked. Either option was only thought of because of Japan declaring war on the US and attacking Pearl Harbor. Japan did so in hopes of destroying the Naval fleet and giving them ample opportunity to expand in the south pacific. They didn’t count on us retailiating.
December 26th, 2006 at 1:03 pmZooey at #1
Well said. Bring the troops home- safely- now.
December 26th, 2006 at 1:18 pm2979 And the good news is it higher now …..Ha Ha and lets hope a lot lot more
December 26th, 2006 at 1:26 pmJuan, you have valid points. The primary focus was Japan and a statement was made to the rest of the world with dropping the bombs. There is evidence that the 2nd bomb was not going to be dropped if Japan surrendered. The japanese, when told of Hiroshima being destroyed, didn’t believe a single bomb could have done this and were in general shock. Japan did not surrender after Hiroshima and they were still fighting everywhere they had soldiers. Only after the 2nd bomb did they understand it was over.
There was a mad rush on who was going to obtain a nuclear weapon. It was clear to that the country with the bomb would hold the power.
You are correct in the underlying message it sent to the USSR and the rest of the world but you are neglecting the USSR’s part in WWII. They had lost 1 million soldiers on the eastern front and were adament on exacting revenge (and gaining territory).
As for your statement why would Truman doubt using it and have them still built. The military had a very large say in it’s production and you negotiate from a stance of strength instead of weakness. The US was very tired of the War. With Germany surrendering there was now a focus to the Pacific theater. We had not reached the Homeland of Japan with ground forces like in Europe and the cost of American lives and time did weigh heavily on the President.
December 26th, 2006 at 1:41 pm“I wonder if Christians will see this as a message from God that enough is enough.”
That’s a tough call. The older part of their holy book features a god who seems to fairly get off on killing Others. The newer part says things like “turn the other cheek” and claims rich people will have a damned hard time getting into heaven. I can never figure out which part 99 44/100% of Christians (especially in this country, where JC is often confused with The Dollar) have more difficulty assimilating.
December 26th, 2006 at 2:10 pm“At each point that you fail to turn the corner, just create new corners.”
That’s Habit #3 of:
December 26th, 2006 at 2:14 pm“Iraq and the 7 Habits of Highly Defective Presidents.”
INSANE, your name says it all. You have absolutely no idea what the troops want and why they do what they do. All you can do is parrot the press statement of some rock singer. At least come up with your own thoughts. You are as stupid as all those that say more innocent Iraqis should be killed. Go Fu*k yourself.
BnF,
Yes, 2 bombs did the final job in Japan. So I guess you advocate nuking Iraq in order to get us out of there. Again, very stupid logic.
December 26th, 2006 at 2:45 pmYes, 2 bombs did the final job in Japan. So I guess you advocate nuking Iraq in order to get us out of there. Again, very stupid logic.
Comment by robert
You missed the point entirely, Robert. Try reading the entire exchange again.
December 26th, 2006 at 2:49 pmRobert, what rock singer is saying the same things as INSANE?
December 26th, 2006 at 2:50 pmZooey, that was a quote from th elead singer of Oasis taling about British troops.
December 26th, 2006 at 2:55 pmZooey, I will take back my comments toward BnF and restate it this way. Two bombs did not win the war with Japan. The sacrifice of THOUSANDS of American lives won the war with Japan.
People need to keep some historical perspective of things like this. While it is sad the number of people we have lost in Iraq over the past 3 1/2 years, during WWII, we lost more than that in a single battle.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:03 pmMore U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq – Good they deserved it – Kill or be killed -live by the sword – etc etc etc
“The troops want to go, all they want to do is fight. If you’re bothered about getting shot don’t join the Army.â€
Comment by INSANE — December 26, 2006 @ 11:24 am
Wow, of course I will fully disagree with what you said, but will fight and die for your right to say it (Kinda a shame you don’t have that kind of conviction for anything but your self, makes it easier to sit on your ass and expect other people to do things for ya?)
December 26th, 2006 at 3:06 pmFor McCain, push for troops in Iraq is personal
December 26th, 2006 at 3:11 pmHello BnF, I believe that was the end result of WWII and we spent a decade or so afterwards in Japan with ten of thousands of troops.
Comment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 11:37 am
-How many troops die in the occupation of Japan?
-Stop trying to compare Bush’s invasion of Iraq to WW2. There is no comparison to be made unless you want to compare it to Hitler telling his people Poland was a threat to Germany and Hitler’s response to the bogus threat.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:36 pm(Kinda a shame you don’t have that kind of conviction for anything but your self, makes it easier to sit on your ass and expect other people to do things for ya?)
Comment by Tundra
Funny how you assume INSANE is a US citizen. Thats how self-centerism works. Think how much sense his comment would have if he were an iraqi.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:37 pmZooey, that was a quote from th elead singer of Oasis taling about British troops.
Comment by robert
Well that guy has always has been a moron.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:38 pmNat, not sure where this venom is coming from but I don’t believe there was any direct comparison between WWII and anything but WWII.
I’ll attack Bush on the merits of his own actions. I don’t need an actual war to prove that.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:44 pmFunny how you assume INSANE is a US citizen. Thats how self-centerism works. Think how much sense his comment would have if he were an iraqi.
Comment by Juan C — December 26, 2006 @ 3:37 pm
Dearest Juan, I never assumed he was. Quite frankly he can hold what ever opinion he wants, Regardless of where he is from. Someone that says “Good they deserve to die”
“The troops want to go, all they want to do is fight”
Kill or be killed -live by the sword – etc etc etc
Speaks of a coward who has never done anything but stand around and expect others to fight for their freedom. Believe it or not I have alot more respect for the insurgents who are fighting for what they believe than I do people who sit in a comfy chair and talk tough but lack the stones to actually do something. The same people who use their freedom of speech to degrade others, demand satisfaction and then do nothing about it but talk. Some people get all upset, fired up angry and then go sit around Starbucks explaining how they would sacrifice, but never do.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:53 pmI’ll attack Bush on the merits of his own actions. I don’t need an actual war to prove that.
Comment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 3:44 pm
Anything regarding WW2 should not be included when talking about the Iraq invasion. It’s apples and oranges.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:57 pm#57, tundra,
Well said!
Nat, the only WWII comparison was in the arguement over winning wars with only bombs. Didn’t happen in WWII and wouldn’t be successful now.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:01 pmSo the military has no similiarities? Or occupying a country after it’s leaders have been killed shouln’t be talked about? Nat, get off that soap box. The logistics in amasing a military might can and does have similarities with every war and invasion.
I never did try to make a comparision and your strawman is in flames.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:01 pmEither option was only thought of because of Japan declaring war on the US and attacking Pearl Harbor. Japan did so in hopes of destroying the Naval fleet and giving them ample opportunity to expand in the south pacific.
Their primary reason for attacking us was oil and their war with China though.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:10 pmmakes it easier to sit on your ass and expect other people to do things for ya?
Comment by Tundra
That comment of yours imply that he is a US citizen critizicing soldiers for defending his freedoms. Yours are the typical words of belic propaganda. For example, Support the troops, but never support the policy, cuz thats questionable, the troops arent.
Speaks of a coward who has never done anything but stand around and expect others to fight for their freedom.
I dont agree with anyone advocating the death of anyone. I think he is discredited for those comments. No one here wants soldiers dead. But I have never read that you are a coward for supporting troops that kills innocent children and rape women. No iraqi has done that to an american woman or children, yet INSANE is the coward? Thats called double moral standard: you defend your own people, your soldiers. Fine. You are good US citizen. But you dont defend humanity. You are not a good human being.
As for the most part of your comment, I agree with you. I think we ALL should do more about it. But let me tell you this, a guy with a gun, american or insurgnet, is not a hero. Single moms, underpaid teachers and firefighters are the real heroes.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:14 pmI never did try to make a comparision and your strawman is in flames.
Comment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 4:01 pm
-I gave you an apt comparison and apparently you don’t agree with it.
-The best way to end the occupation of a country that the Bush administration had no business invading is to withdrew the troops.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:22 pmOff topic but telling. I went to RedState early today and they have a blog on Haditha. There were no comments from the right. Just went back now and still no comments.
Nat, I think we are on the same side. We had no right to invade Iraq. We never declared war on Iraq. New laws were created so this administration didn’t have to abide by the current ones.
I don’t want to see a greater mess in the middle east so I don’t think we can just leave right now. I don’t like the way the military has been used in Iraq and I’m disgusted by this administration’s perverse use of the word’s freedom and terrorists. But to remove our troops now may create a bigger problem.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:28 pmThat comment of yours imply that he is a US citizen critizicing soldiers for defending his freedoms.
No, I think your a coward who sits on his ass and you aren’t an American.
But I have never read that you are a coward for supporting troops that kills innocent children and rape women
I have never supported anyone who killed innocent children without any other options.
I have never supported a rapist either. But you like to group all soldiers into those groups. Well over half a million soldiers have touched ground over there, Lets say you could find 1,000 instances of rape and slaughter, it’s still less than .5% of them. But you stand here everyday and say they all are (I guess it’s easiest for you to paint people with broad strokes).
you defend your own people, your soldiers. Fine. You are good US citizen.
But you dont defend humanity. You are not a good human being.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:30 pmI never said I was first off. Second off while you would sacrifice your neighbors kid so that 2 kids a thousand miles away can live, I won’t. There are hard decissions to be made. It’s easy to move everyone into an equation, but when the rubber meets the road, I know who I prefer to protect me and mine (And no I am not talking about the president either).
Juan, you have valid points. The primary focus was Japan and a statement was made to the rest of the world with dropping the bombs. There is evidence that the 2nd bomb was not going to be dropped if Japan surrendered. The japanese, when told of Hiroshima being destroyed, didn’t believe a single bomb could have done this and were in general shock. Japan did not surrender after Hiroshima and they were still fighting everywhere they had soldiers. Only after the 2nd bomb did they understand it was over.
Comment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 1:41 pm
The reason why the Japanese kept on fighting is that they believed they were fighting for a God and that God was Hirohito. Japan would not surrender unless they got assurances that their God would not be harmed in any way and they could not get this from the U.S. After the two bombs were used, Japan got the assurance.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:35 pmNo, I think your a coward who sits on his ass and you aren’t an American.
I’m sorry Juan that was uncalled for. My sincere apologies.
What about the hundreds of thousands that have been killed by Saddam? What about the Kurds he regularly killed/tortured? I suppose they don’t matter to you. Oh wait the proper action is 12 years of sanctions, while his goons go around raping and killing.
At least I admit that I don’t care about them and didn’t when we started this mess. But I also admit I am a bad human. Do you support going to Darfur? If so what happens if a soldier commits a crime there, burn them all? Or don’t we go? And then you can be a bad human for letting genocide happen.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:39 pmNat, more to the story than what you and I can discuss. Here’s a tidbit from a WWII multi media site:
December 26th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
I don’t want to see a greater mess in the middle east so I don’t think we can just leave right now. I don’t like the way the military has been used in Iraq and I’m disgusted by this administration’s perverse use of the word’s freedom and terrorists. But to remove our troops now may create a bigger problem.
Comment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 4:28 pm
The troops destroyed Iraq’s military and removed Iraq’s despotic Government. They can’t do anything else there. What’s left to do is for the Iraqis to work out; we can’t make it work for them.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:48 pmNat, more to the story than what you and I can discuss. Here’s a tidbit from a WWII multi media site:
Comment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 4:45 pm
I got my information from an article that says the opposite of the one you posted; He’s a portion of it:
The list of World War II military leaders who felt the use of the atomic bomb was unnecessary is very long. It includes men such as General Henry H. ‘Hap’ Arnold, commander of the U.S. Army Air Forces; Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet; Admiral William Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet; Curtis LeMay, Army Air Force major general and commander of the 21st Bomber Command; and many others. We also know that General George C. Marshall, chief of staff of the U.S. Army, who shortly before his death in 1959 gave interviews defending the decision, expressed very different views inside the government before the bomb was used. A top secret memorandum from 1945, dated two months before Hiroshima, records that:
“He [Marshall] thought these weapons might first be used against straight military objectives such as a large naval installation and then if no complete result was derived from the effect of that, he thought we ought to designate a number of large manufacturing areas from which the people would be warned to leave—telling the Japanese that we intend to destroy such centers.… Every effort should be made to keep our record of warning clear. We must offset by such warning methods the opprobrium which might follow from an ill-considered employment of such force.â€
One of the reasons so many American military leaders felt as they did was that Japan was already essentially defeated and everyone knew it. Japan had virtually no navy, almost no air force, very little fuel or ammunition, and few of the basic supplies required to make war against the most powerful nation in the world. Furthermore, U.S. intelligence experts had broken Japanese diplomatic codes early in the war and were secretly listening to all Japanese cable traffic between Tokyo and its embassies around the world. It was clear that Japan was searching for a way to somehow end the war.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:56 pm-By Gar Alperovitz
Nat, that should have been hashed out before we went in like a bull in a china shop. The rest of the world is looking at the US and saying “you broke it, you bought it”. This does weigh heavily on all other dealings we have in the world. It was short sided and ill thought out to invade Iraq, it shouldn’t be the same way when we leave.
December 26th, 2006 at 4:59 pmthe 9/11 milestone came on Christmas.
and the day after Christmas….I get a call to pipe Amazing Grace for one of the fallen….
December 26th, 2006 at 5:00 pmThis is a Christmas to remember. May God speed to all.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:04 pmThe rest of the world is looking at the US and saying “you broke it, you bought itâ€.
Comment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 4:59 pm
So you’re saying that the rest of the world wants us to stay in Iraq?
December 26th, 2006 at 5:10 pmNo, I think your a coward who sits on his ass and you aren’t an American.
Are you talking to me? Or to INSANE? I think I touch a fiber. It wasnt my intention to do that.
If that was directed to me:
1) There is no other way to sit other than on my ass.
2) Im an american. I was born in Argentina which happens to be in the American continent.
Well over half a million soldiers have touched ground over there, Lets say you could find 1,000 instances of rape and slaughter, it’s still less than .5% of them.
Can I ask what are those forces doing there? Is there a legal reason for them to be there? Your argument is ridiculous: imagine that somebody rapes your wife or kids, you go to the police and they say: Hey, what are the odds? 0.5%. Sorry. That doesnt mean, it didnt happen. I havent read you condemn those acts or the abuses made by US forces in Abu Ghraib, while no iraqi has ever abuse an american in US soil, yet Im the coward? Im not saying that you are a coward, but you are a failure as a human being if you only defend one side of the conflict where unjustice has been made.
I never said I was first off.
I was catching the picture.
Second off while you would sacrifice your neighbors kid so that 2 kids a thousand miles away can live, I won’t
Idiocy and war propaganda at its best.
I wouldnt sacrifice ANYONE. You would. Thats you. I would just sacrifice myself but ONLY for my OWN GOD DAMN REASONS and not for the reasons of my government. Your government tells who to hate, whos the enemy, that bombing is cool while beheading is evil, that killing soldiers is an atrocity but killing civilians is called collateral damage. There are no iraqi vans cruising your streets looking for kids to kidnap in order to avenge their dead kids. YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT takes your kids and puts them in a land where they are not wanted and where they can be killed. President Bush and all those f*ckers in the government sit and discuss situations pretending they give a f*ck about your troops or the thousands of dead civilians. But, Im the coward?
You are so fed up with war propaganda that you have lost the ability to criticize the doings of your own troops, just because they are YOUR troops. I know you may have friends in the force and that you served once, it is obvious, US is a country based on wars, you have a war economy, therefore you have to have a big army. Now, have you ever criticized why so many of your friends have to be exposed to danger if there is no real terrorist threat and if there was one, police agencies have to be in charge? I have read you criticizing INSANE for his words, which I dont agree with, but I have never read you criticizing the killing of 600,000 civilian victims. Thats double moral standard.
There are hard decissions to be made.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:10 pmMore stupid war propaganda. Yeah, there are tough decisions, but only poor and innocent people pay for them.
No Nat, I’m saying the rest of the world has an “I told you so” attitude. Or, if you don’t understand that one how about “Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread”.
We ignored the world when we invaded Iraq. The UN was saying the sanctions were sufficient and inspectors had found no new evidence of the dreaded WMD’s. But we wouldn’t listen. So now there is a cynical enjoyment by other countries and they like to see the Great America take one on the chin.
You don’t see that?
December 26th, 2006 at 5:14 pmWhat about the Kurds he regularly killed/tortured? I suppose they don’t matter to you. Oh wait the proper action is 12 years of sanctions, while his goons go around raping and killing.
I matter, of course, your government didnt seem to matter when Saddam was their buddy. So, you went to Iraq to stop the killing of the kurds? I thought it was WMD´s or 9/11 or something.
12 years of sanctions that only starved iraqi people, Saddam lived in a golden castle. Now, Tundra, hows the situation in Iraq right now, that people is willing to die to kill the invading army, but when they were with Saddam they werent willing to do that? That tells a lot.
About Darfur, STOP SELLING GUNS AND WEAPONS TO GENOCIDES. That would help, Tundra.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:16 pmsince only american lives count to americans guess it’s still a long shot from the 50,000 needed to stop a massacre such as Vietnam; by then the Iraqi count will be well in the millions but that’s beside the issue (it already is over a million taking into acount ALL 15 years of this war)
December 26th, 2006 at 5:22 pmOk Juan,
Choice. Send U.N troops (Which of course are U.S. Soldiers) to Darfur or not. According to you they are all rapists and killers, so do you advocate sending them or not?
Can I ask what are those forces doing there? Is there a legal reason for them to be there?
I’ve stated a thousand times that we never should have gone. Why? because I don’t give a rats ass what he was doing to them over there. I don’t care if they are finding mass graves with thousands of men/women and children in them. You don’t either, but I’m the morally bankrupt one? What solution did you have for the Kurds?
I havent read you condemn those acts or the abuses made by US forces in Abu Ghraib
Then you haven’t been paying attention. I stated that I would reserve judgment till after the trial. Guess what guilty, they are pieces of shit who have no right to wear the uniform.
Now, have you ever criticized why so many of your friends have to be exposed to danger if there is no real terrorist threat
Umm yes, I have repeatedly stated that they should have never been there in the first place. Soldiers are a tool. A tool which is used to destroy, not a building force, not a police force. Their job is to find the enemy and neutralize them. Simple as that.
but I have never read you criticizing the killing of 600,000 civilian victims.
First off that number changes around this crowd daily. Secondly, care to break that up by U.S ordanance and Insurgent ordanance (Oh wait the U.S soldiers are responsible for all of it). If they were never sent them none of those casualties by U.S ordanance would have happened, and you could sit there and complain that the U.S isn’t doing anything for the people Saddam is torturing. what was happening at Abu Ghraib before the U.S took it over, oh that’s right it doesn’t count. See here is where I don’t care what he did there (Which makes me morally bankrupt again and you can just pretend none of it happened to maintain your moral standards)
Thirdly All those civilian casualties are due to a flawed system, a reason that never should have happened. I don’t blame the troops on the ground for it. I blame the administration for sending them there. Drag a bull into a china shop and then complain at the bull that he broke something.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:33 pmWe ignored the world when we invaded Iraq. The UN was saying the sanctions were sufficient and inspectors had found no new evidence of the dreaded WMD’s. But we wouldn’t listen. So now there is a cynical enjoyment by other countries and they like to see the Great America take one on the chin.
You don’t see that?
Comment by hellinabucket — December 26, 2006 @ 5:14 pm
-So what.
-Also, some people try to equate Bush with the country and it looks like your doing it. Bush and the country are two separate entities.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:34 pmI matter, of course, your government didnt seem to matter when Saddam was their buddy. So, you went to Iraq to stop the killing of the kurds? I thought it was WMD´s or 9/11 or something. (Umm how many times do I have to say I never wanted to go? But I also don’t care about the Kurds, what’s your excuse?)
12 years of sanctions that only starved iraqi people, Saddam lived in a golden castle. Now, Tundra, hows the situation in Iraq right now, that people is willing to die to kill the invading army, but when they were with Saddam they werent willing to do that? That tells a lot.
Wow you sure know a thousands things that went wrong, still waiting for the right thing to do there? Please explain to me “World Citizen” What should have been done to saddam over the kurds?
December 26th, 2006 at 5:37 pmWhat should have been done to saddam over the kurds?
Comment by Tundra
He should have been punished by the UN and not protected by the US. If you sell weapons to a dictator, I guess he will use it sometimes. My advice for Darfur, “ONLY US CITIZEN”, applies to almost every case.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:44 pmI’ve stated a thousand times that we never should have gone. Why? because I don’t give a rats ass what he was doing to them over there. I don’t care if they are finding mass graves with thousands of men/women and children in them. You don’t either, but I’m the morally bankrupt one? What solution did you have for the Kurds?
Comment by Tundra — December 26, 2006 @ 5:33 pm
These mass graves were made when Saddam was our friend 15 to 20 years and we continued to sell him precursor to make the weapons after the Kurd gassing. Anyway, what does the Kurd gassing have to do with now?
December 26th, 2006 at 5:46 pmIf they were never sent them none of those casualties by U.S ordanance would have happened, and you could sit there and complain that the U.S isn’t doing anything for the people Saddam is torturing.
Comment by Tundra — December 26, 2006 @ 5:33 pm
What U.S. ordinance?
December 26th, 2006 at 5:51 pmI get a call to pipe Amazing Grace for one of the fallen….
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
My condolences on your community’s loss, and thank you for doing your part to honor our nation’s fallen. I’m sorry it was necessary at all.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:59 pmwhat does the Kurd gassing have to do with now?
It’s really quite simple. Juan said I am moraly bankrupt because I defend my soldiers because he says they are all rapists and killers. He further says I am morally bankrupt because my primary concern is not the Iraq civilians. My point was: If I am morally bankrupt for not caring about them now, and you didn’t care about the Kurds then, what does that make you?
Basically I admit I am morally bankrupt he claims to care about every life (Of course this is only when it suits his argument because Darfur is an atrocity that he wants to do nothing about, except blame everyone who is not actually killing over there)
December 26th, 2006 at 6:00 pmWhat U.S. ordinance?
Comment by Nat — December 26, 2006 @ 5:51 pm
All 600,000 are dead because of direct involvement with U.S soldiers. None of them have been killed by their own people, it’s the soldiers fault. Not the government, not the insurgents, but the U.S soldier on the ground.
December 26th, 2006 at 6:03 pmSo whats next once Saddam has been hung . I hope you all leave Iraq as thats your mission accompliced GO HOME and STAY……. or is there more ??
December 26th, 2006 at 6:04 pmLet’s look at all the groups with an interest in continuing the chaos.
1 / First, of course, there is al-Qaeda. Bin Laden must be laughing every day to see America’s Army being hollowed out as the Army chief of staff describes. Further, every picture of Arabs being killed by Americans furthers bin Laden’s objectives. There are too many ways bin Laden is “winning” to describe here; for details, see “36 Ways U.S. Is Losing the War on Terror.”
2 / Iraq’s neighbors. Neoconservatives and Bush virtually threatened that Syria and Iran were the next in line to be attacked by America. This stupidity gave them every reason to want to see America tied down and weakened in Iraq for as long as possible.
3 / The Likud Party in Israel. Although most Israelis want peace, their electoral system gives overwhelming power to their aggressive minorities. It is not hard to imagine that many want Arabs to fight and weaken one another. Israeli agents are very active with the Kurds, even training them. The U.S. occupation brought in Israeli advisers to teach American soldiers how to suppress Arab resistance. Israel has Arab speakers who can easily “mix in,” as well as other resources. Dividing one’s enemies is the oldest strategy in the book. Some Israelis would like to see a massive Sunni-Shia war spread to other Muslim nations.
4 / The Kurds. They want a divided and weakened central government so they can gain their independence and take over the oil wealth of northern Iraq.
5 / Shia and Kurdish militias benefit greatly from being trained and supplied by America. The so-called Iraqi army and police are mainly composed of Shia and Kurds. The longer the strife continues, the better equipped they become for an eventual showdown against the Sunnis, who also bear the brunt of American “pacification.” Meanwhile, the Shia are gradually “ethnically cleansing” Baghdad of Sunnis.
6 / Mercenaries, some paid as much as a thousand dollars a day. They want a good business to continue.
7 / The Beltway Bombers and companies set up in Washington to hire retired commandos, Army Rangers, Navy SEALs. They have gained hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts from the Pentagon to help out in Iraq. There are indeed a reported 100,000 or so bodyguards, non-military consultants, advisers, support staff, etc., mostly paid by the U.S. Treasury.
8 / Other oil-producing nations. All are happy to see most Iraq oil production off the market, which helps to keep the price of oil high. Russia certainly would benefit the most if other Mideast oil producers had “troubles,” too.
9 / Weapons manufacturers in many lands selling millions and paying big commissions to all sides in wars.
10 / Gangster elements in Iraq, criminals who are thriving on the lawlessness, from petty thieves to big-time smugglers of oil and weapons.
11 / All the nations that want to see the U.S. weakened and humiliated. Russians are no longer friendly to America, and many fear us. The Chinese were once on notice from powerful Washington interests that they would be next, once America finished with the Muslim world. The Chinese understand that manufacturers of warships, missiles, and planes need a “real” nation with vast resources to justify spending for their products; fighting shoeless guerrillas in caves and cellars won’t cut it.
12 / The Armageddon lobby in America, which sees chaos in Iraq as helping along their fantasies of hurrying up God to fulfill His prophecies (as they see them) to kill most of the human race while giving them a quick pass to Heaven.
13 / Finally, there are smaller tribal elements in Iraq itself with their own agendas, which are almost impossible for Washington to discern.
December 26th, 2006 at 6:11 pmAll 600,000 are dead because of direct involvement with U.S soldiers. None of them have been killed by their own people, it’s the soldiers fault. Not the government, not the insurgents, but the U.S soldier on the ground.
Comment by Tundra — December 26, 2006 @ 6:03 pm
It’s ultimately Bush’s Fault. All of this stems from his decision to invade Iraq.
December 26th, 2006 at 6:12 pmI state the obvious: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
December 26th, 2006 at 6:38 pmYet this tragic milestone should be one that awakens the thickheaded ones to the fact that Bush created this war, he caused these deaths. This is his war, his crime, his legacy.
the 9/11 milestone came on Christmas.
and the day after Christmas….I get a call to pipe Amazing Grace for one of the fallen….
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
That brought an unintended gasp as I read it.
December 26th, 2006 at 6:41 pmYour talent is appreciated.
Comment by Tundra
If you wanted to discuss just with yourself, you would have told before. Whenever you want to discuss something seriously, without putting words in my mouth and dismissing the important issues, Ill be there.
December 26th, 2006 at 6:58 pmFor those that only want to believe Michael Moore and Air America
Slain soldiers’ parents make pilgrimage to Iraq
December 26th, 2006 at 7:56 pmGrieving families find a cause worth fighting for on visit to Kurdish area
Don’t forget the civilians, mercernaries and contractors who have also been killed in the boy king’s excellent adventure
December 26th, 2006 at 8:46 pmGoals and Results
If there was no oil in Iraq, then there would have been no war.
In the PNAC letter to Clinton in 1998, the goals were implied in this quote:
“if Saddam does acquire the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction… the safety of (1) American troops in the region, of (2) our friends and allies like Israel and the moderate Arab states, and (3) a significant portion of the world’s supply of oil will all be put at hazard.” [my numbering added]
And we have the results:
1. The safety of American troops in the region has been put at hazard. About 3,000 are dead, and 20,000 have been injured.
2. The safety of Israel and the moderate Arab states is now lower than it could have been because the resources spent on Iraq could have been spent on: a) developing better relationships, rather than damaging relationships; b) building moral authority for future endeavours, rather than damaging moral authority.
3. And safety of the oil…? That’s been secured.
That’s 1 “good” result out of 3.
December 26th, 2006 at 9:19 pmRobert, if there is such a compelling reason to fight…why aren’t you?
December 26th, 2006 at 10:53 pmBuck Fush!
December 27th, 2006 at 12:36 amJPark, #97, I have already served 2 tours over there and I am currently in what is known as “Dwell time” at Camp Lejeune. About half my unit is going back after the first of the year.
In short, I am serving now as an Active Duty Marine.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:30 amI get a call to pipe Amazing Grace for one of the fallen….
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
I’ve thought about this for a long time and I can’t put into words how much I respect and appreciate that from you.
Thank you!
December 27th, 2006 at 9:45 amAnger in Iraq’s Najaf after U.S. kills Sadr aide
NAJAF, Iraq (Reuters) – Thousands of supporters of anti-American Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr marched through the holy Iraqi city of Najaf in an angry funeral procession after a senior Sadr aide was killed by a U.S. soldier on Wednesday.
Chanting “No to America” and carrying placards decrying U.S. occupation, mourners, including black-robed clerics, carried the coffin of Saheb al-Amiri through the streets.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061227/ts_nm/iraq_sadr_dc
December 27th, 2006 at 2:13 pm#101 robert,
Thank you for your service to our country. Stay safe over there, and that goes for your friends and fellow Marines, too. May you all be home safe soon.
December 27th, 2006 at 3:31 pmSpeaks of a coward who has never done anything but stand around and expect others to fight for their freedom. Believe it or not I have alot more respect for the insurgents who are fighting for what they believe than I do people who sit in a comfy chair and talk tough but lack the stones to actually do something. The same people who use their freedom of speech to degrade others, demand satisfaction and then do nothing about it but talk. Some people get all upset, fired up angry and then go sit around Starbucks explaining how they would sacrifice, but never do.
Comment by Tundra
You mean kinda like YOU!!!!! Member of the 101st Keyboard Division:D
December 27th, 2006 at 4:38 pmYou mean kinda like YOU!!!!! Member of the 101st Keyboard Division:D
Comment by not impressed with the U.S. — December 27, 2006 @ 4:38 pm
Umm I served, I went places because a President decided we were the world police. He was unhappy with one group of people so he sends soldiers. Happens all the time.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:30 ami think that bsh should bring the troops home…idont think it’s worth it trying to save our country ya i can understand that but why risk your life. if you get killed in that war and you have a family how do you think its making them feel right now!!!!! i think we should bring the troops home fortheir families!!!
January 5th, 2007 at 5:51 pmGentlemen!
Why not having a pause in all discussion and try to find a way to make Mr Bush quit the whole thing? Something like chain e-mails to all the world… We ourselves got to do something… something… Our nation is leading the world, and I appreciate that. Couldn’t be different. But we have already made a new Vietnam, if we don’t stop right now it will be a great loss. A great defeat to America, and giving UN the controll of the planet.
January 6th, 2007 at 5:19 pmBush screwed up in the begining by only sending 1/8 of the strengh we needed to get in and out as fast as possible with as little casulties as possible. We should have sent in 20000 soldiers in the begining. If he would have done that in the first place there would’nt be all thoughs casulties. We could have covered more ground faster and aboul to find that ugly dode that we are looking for. thankyou for reading this. this is my oppinion and l’m only in eigth grade. Thankyou
January 19th, 2007 at 11:40 amI think that the war is a great thing cause it shows the other countiers that we as Americans dont back off from anything or anyone. An I’m so amazed at the brave men and women that are serving owr country. An I think that if we stick in this for a little bit longer then we could make something of that comunist country. An what the persident said about the soldiers not being smart efune that they have to joyin the war just to be noticed whatever. Who is he to say anything about being stupied his the one who keeps making these countries stay mad at us. Anh plus I’m going to be so glade when he is out of office and we can have owr soldiers back home. That’s what I think about the war we are in!
February 1st, 2007 at 7:19 pm