“Former President Gerald R. Ford, who was thrust into the presidency in 1974 in the wake of the Watergate scandal but who lost his own bid for election after pardoning President Richard M. Nixon, has died. He was 93, making him the longest living former president, surpassing Ronald Reagan, who died in 2004, by just over a month.” The New York Times has an extensive obituary.
I’m just glad the old fucher didn’t die before the elections.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:01 amI’m just glad the old fucher didn’t die pre-elections.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:04 amTwo more frail past presidents could also pass away very soon: Jimmy Carter and George Bush Senior. That would leave only Bill Clinton who is not doing so well with a weak heart, so all the past presidents could pass away leaving Bush Junior. Kind of makes me ill thinking about it!
December 27th, 2006 at 2:14 amThis is off topic,but now that I have your attention:
Have you noticed how all of a sudden the Bush admin. is hell bent on executing Saddam Hussein? And yes,the Iraqi law all of a sudden insists that the hanging take place within 30 days.
BushCo. knows this will provoke even more violence–BOOM-BAM,all of a sudden you have another rationalization for escalating troop levels.
This whole thing is a scam;just like announcing Saddams sentence before the election was.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:25 amPost 4 > Yes Bush wants Saddam hanged before he gives his State of the Union Address in January, and yes Saddam’s hanging will probably cause more bloodshed in Iraq as well. Plus to make it even worse, CNN is reporting that Saddam’s body might be cremated, which is against Islamic religion so that could cause Sunni Iraqis to riot in the streets. Bush Junior apparently wants more anarchy in Iraq!
December 27th, 2006 at 2:35 amBush Jr. does want more violence in Iraq,it plays right into his plans for more troops–and then,perhaps,on to Iran.
Cremated? Of course they’re going to do everything they can to infuriate the Arab street.That and more.
December 27th, 2006 at 3:05 amI guess people will wake up later this morning to post on here, so goodnight to anyone lingering on TP threads.
December 27th, 2006 at 4:38 amwhen Saddam gets hanged - Leave Iraq
No WMD
No Saddam left
Leave
December 27th, 2006 at 5:28 amYears from now when GWB kicks the bucket, people all over the world will be celebrating. First thing that popped into my head this morning upon hearing about Ford’s death.
December 27th, 2006 at 7:52 amGreat news!! One less Repugnican voter befouling the air and wasting earth’s precious resources.
I guess if Ann Coulter can wish the Supremes dead and “christian” Pat Robertson can wish the president of Venezuela to follow suit, its only fair to be doing backflips with joy now that there is one less Repugnican out there.
December 27th, 2006 at 8:03 amwell bye Ford. Thanks for pardoning Nixon. I am sure that is what the country needed then. NOT!!!!
See it cost him the Presidency the next time around.
We’ve only got Jimmy Carter, Poppy Bush and Big Dawg Bill Clinton left? wow, even old presidents go fast. Especially when one of the old president’s son is ruining the world. If I was him I’d want to go fast and not see how much more damage junior is going to subject this country and the world too.
December 27th, 2006 at 8:29 amThis serves as a direct comparison and reminder of how this country’s morality has descended into darkness since the l970’s! Ford was sworn into office following the impeachment of Richard M. Nixon - for the illegal wiretapping of the Dem. headquarters at Watergate. We sit here with a garbage pile of high crimes & misdemeanors surrounding this president and still have not the courage or patriotism to impeach him. What’s happened to the backbone and soul of this country?
Maybe Ford’s passing before the new Congress takes office is symbolic and will certainly serve as a reminder to those still alive how far this country has descended since that time. It will also serve to highlight just how moral this country was at one time…during the 70’s…..and how low we’ve gone since then.
These old clips should serve as a “wake up call” to all americans who have been poisoned by the continued media propaganda to a life a fear - who have traded their constitutional rights for the seduction of the lie of “safety” - and we’ve handed over all of our rights in exchange for safety so easily. As Jefferson said: “He who would trade freedom for safety will have neither freedom or safety and the “enemy out there” is really an “enemy within”. I think people are finally waking up to the reality that the enemy we are truly fighting is within the confines of this country…..the enemycalled corruption…..the enemy called lying to the people…..the enemy called usurption of and unchecked power…..
Ford’s passing willl remind americans that the time is “now” to rid this country of the corruption within and impeach this entire administration. Ford’s passing will clearly provide the backdrop for doing so as we move into our new congress in January and will provide that significant contrast we’ve needed to clearly see what’s been happening in this country since the days of Gerald Ford.
December 27th, 2006 at 8:42 amSo long, President Ford. (Any relation to Harold? Didn’t think so.)
When I think of Gerald Ford, I am always reminded of those goofy “WIN” buttons, which were meant to inspire us to “Whip Inflation Now”. This was, of course, an extrememly silly and pointless measure as there was virtually nothing the average person could do to control the interest rates banks charged each other, so we weren’t going to able to bring them down, which meant there wasn’t much we could do to “whip inflation now” except to wear the silly buttons.
And pardoning the man who inspired the current Bush-Cheney regime to reach for the stars and grab all the power for the executive office that they can didn’t help our country, either. (Though it did eventually lead to my latest poem, available on my blog, just click my name.) Still, hardly a fair trade-off.
As I was listening to the radio this morning, the DJ did point out one good thing that came from the tragedy of the Fords’ tenure in the White House, and that was the public disclosure of the alcoholism of First Lady Betty Ford. The admission of her problem helped shed a whole new light on the problems alcoholics faced in this country, and it also helped to turn the disease around from one to be ashamed of to one for which you could get community support to help fight. (In turn, this also led to better understanding and acceptance of substance abuse problems as being more a medical problem than simply one of lack of will power.) And now there’s the world famous Betty Ford Clinic, which we never would have had if they chose to keep her alcoholism secret, as was the practice of so many Americans at the time. I view this as one bright, shining positive that came out of Gerald Ford’s term as president.
Requiescat in pace, President Ford.
December 27th, 2006 at 8:51 amCurlew
Great news!! One less Repugnican voter befouling the air and wasting earth’s precious resources.
I guess if Ann Coulter can wish the Supremes dead and “christian†Pat Robertson can wish the president of Venezuela to follow suit, its only fair to be doing backflips with joy now that there is one less Repugnican out there.
So you believe that two wrongs make a right? In other words, bad behavior does not excuse bad behavior and you are as bad as those you rant about.
December 27th, 2006 at 8:54 amFord was an accessory to any crime Nixon commited while in office because he pardoned him. He’s idolized inside Washington because he brought this country together and healed it by allowing Nixon to stay out of prison.
When you give a criminal like Nixon a stay out of jail card, that makes Ford a part of the whole coverup that all of Nixon’s aides served time in prison for. Quid pro quo. You make me president, then you stay out of jail Tricky Dick.
Poppy Bush did the same with Casper Weinberger and 6 others who committed crimes covering up the Iran/Contra scandal. Republicans believe in the “rule of law” unless it’s their own who have committed the crimes.
December 27th, 2006 at 8:58 amveritas,
You need to read a little more if you think the “moral decline” of this country started with Ford. It goes much further. Maybe the “Illegal” involvement in Viet Nam by Kennedy, the escalation of forces by Johnson, the continued escalation (and subsequent withdrawal of forces) by Nixon.
In reality, all these things illustrate that we, as Americans (yes, it is traditionally capitolized) were kept blind to government actions and Viet Nam just pulled the curtain back for us.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:00 amJerryTheAngel,
Don’t even start that, look at all the pardons Clinton handed out. Here are a couple of examples:
Marc Richthe billionaire commodities trader,the financier fled to Switzerland to avoid prosecution on 51 counts of tax evasion, fraud and violating a US trade embargo with Iran.
Carlos Vignali, 30, had his 15-year sentence for conspiracy to sell cocaine reduced to time served, and walked free on Mr Clinton’s last day in office. His father, Horacio, is a rich and powerful leader in the Los Angeles Hispanic community who has made large donations to the Democratic party. A number of high-profile Los Angeles figures, including the archbishop, the man who is now sherrif and two current mayoral candidates appealed for clemency for Vignali, but several have now said they should not have done so.
Roger Clinton,
Roger Clinton has been arrested on new charges
the former president’s younger half-brother, was pardoned for a 1985 cocaine-related offence. Roger Clinton pleaded guilty to the charge and served more than a year in prison. The presidential pardon erases his criminal record - but he was arrested and charged with drink driving in California a month after the pardon. He also faces a charge of disturbing the peace for allegedly challenging a nightclub doorman to a fight.
Gee, that last one sounds like an abuse of power to me.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:08 amwell we need to have that curtain pulled back again. This administration is EVEN MORE secretive than the Nixon Administration. We cannot guarantee accountability without being able to see the workings of our government. It’s time the PEOPLE realize that we need to have impeachment proceedings in order to show everyone that NO ONE in this country is above the law, not even George W. Bush and Richard “dick” Cheney.
As for Betty Ford, yes, SHE is a great woman. Publically admitting she had a drinking problem takes courage and strength. She had it. Those of us who are recovering alcoholics have her to thank for many things. She made it easy for people like me to get help.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:09 amFarewell Mr President and my condolences to his family.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:09 amfreebird,
You’re right, Betty Ford is one great lady. She went through public hell, but she toughed it out better than anyone I can even imagine. She’s the one with the great legacy.
My condolences to the Ford family.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:18 am#14 C’est le vie. Any time there is one less Repugnican slithering across the landscape I’m a happy camper. Is it 2008 election time yet?
December 27th, 2006 at 9:18 amCurlew,
Well maybe the do-no-wrong Dems will outlaw the Republican party and you can have the one party system you desire. After all, it worked so well in the FORMER Soviet Union.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:26 amThough I’m willing to give Ford the benefit of the doubt that it was made for best of reasons, The Pardon is unpardonable.
The great lesson of Watergate was that the Rule of Law is greater than the political power of men or parties. Ford’s decision to short circuit this lesson resulted in the fact that ultimately, politics went on as usual. Money rules, dirty tricks are allowed, winning is everything and there is little consequence for misdeeds. If you liked Iran-Contra, Lee Atwater, Willie Horton, McCain/Bush in SC, Karl Rove, Mellon-Scaife, the Arkansas Project, Florida in 2000 and Swiftboating, well then you probably liked The Pardon. It was our best opportunity squandered to reform the political process. I cannot forgive Gerald Ford for this.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:27 amWell maybe the do-no-wrong Dems will outlaw the Republican party and you can have the one party system you desire. After all, it worked so well in the FORMER Soviet Union.
Comment by robert
Oh please.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:30 amCranky this morning, Robert?
http://www.jfklibrary.org/ Education+and+Public+Programs/ Profile+in+Courage+Award/ Award+Recipients/ Gerald+Ford/ Remarks+by+Senator+Edward+M.+Kennedy.htm
December 27th, 2006 at 9:32 amZooey, I am always cranky, you know that. Not enough coffee, too much rap music.
Anyways, I was just following Curlew’s logic. The two main political parties in this country are the Reps and Dems. If you advocate the death of all Reps, you are left with only Dems, therefore a one party system.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:35 amIt was our best opportunity squandered to reform the political process. I cannot forgive Gerald Ford for this.
Comment by not the senator
It was that little escape trick that probably emboldened the lawlessness since that time. This was the first time KNEW about the shit going on, because it came right into our living rooms. Those criminals and this country should have experienced the consequences of such actions. I think we would have been better off today.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:38 amIf you advocate the death of all Reps
Yes, but not everyone on this site feels that way. The left has it’s few wackos just like the right. While a couple people may rejoice in the death of an ex-president of the United States, most real Liberals I know aren’t happy with anyones death.
Those that do sort of go against most of the Democratic values. I can’t explain the logic of some of them (Basically the ones that are democrats just because they hate Bush).
December 27th, 2006 at 9:41 amZooey, I am always cranky, you know that. Not enough coffee, too much rap music.
Comment by robert
I don’t recommend either rap or coffee, but turn off the stereo and crank up the coffee machine!
Following Curlew’s logic this morning — yikes.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:41 amTundra gets a gold star this morning!
December 27th, 2006 at 9:46 amThe two main political parties in this country are the Reps and Dems. If you advocate the death of all Reps, you are left with only Dems, therefore a one party system.
Comment by robert
I don’t mean to sound disagreeable (especially when you’re getting more rap music than coffee), but what you are saying is at the very core of our political problems in this country: that too many people think we have two, and only two, political parties in this country. There are other choices, and they’ll all get stronger when people stop looking to the two major political parties as the only solution. They’re not the solution, they’re the problem.
We desperately need to have more diversity of opinions and ideas in our national government, not just the ones in charge and the ones who oppose them. Neither of these parties has served the nation in the past as well as they could have, because they viewed each other as the enemy.
I am a liberal libertarian who usually votes for Democrats (because I’ve never met a Republican whose platform I liked), but I will vote for alternative liberal candidates. And I do it in order to help them get more votes, which in turn could help them eventually get federal funding and exemptions from having to collect signatures to get on ballots. These other parties are not all nutcases and unelectable people. They are often fine people even more deserving than some of the losers serving now, but they are hampered by the fact that the Dems and Repubs have rigged the system to favor them above all other political parties.
Democracy takes courage, a great deal of it, and we need to find ways to inspire people to vote for the candidate who represents their views better, especially if that candidate is not a Democrat or Republican. When more and more incumbents get voted out in favor of other parties, the country will be in better shape. The greater the diversity in Congress, the better our nation is served. I honestly believe that, and it’s what I work to achieve.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:50 amFord indeed left a big impact on the political life and history in the US that will never be forgotten…he brought two men to work for him then in the seventies one called Cheney and the other called Rummy….
December 27th, 2006 at 9:53 amComment by Wayne A. Schneider — December 27, 2006 @ 9:50 am
Well Said!
December 27th, 2006 at 9:54 amRemember when Ford tried to eat a tamale and didn’t take off the corn husk?
December 27th, 2006 at 9:54 amWhat a Chump!
Whip Inflation Now!
Well, good riddence…..
there’s a special room for you at Motel Hell between
Nixon and Reagan!
Wait I take that back…you were never elected….
Well maybe there’s a special wing at Motel Hell for
people like you and George W. Bush!
Yay, Wayne! Well said!
Click on Wayne’s name to go to his blog — it’s the best blog since ThinkProgress!
Wayne, you can buy me an extra drink at Milliways for my shameless blog whoring. :)
December 27th, 2006 at 9:58 amThough Ford was a likable man, I never forgave him for pardoning Nixon. He said it was to “end the national nightmare”, but in reality it was only to end the nightmare for Republicans. We simple voters saw the truth behind the curtain for a brief time, that people in power have more rights than average citizens. That is not acceptable in our Democracy.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:59 amThe guy actually had a great life, but would’ve been better off playing for the Green Bay Packers. Who turns down a chance to play in the NFL?
December 27th, 2006 at 9:59 amWayne A. Schneider
Well said, indead!
Tundra,
Well said as well. I know not all, as a matter of fact, not many on this site feel the way Curlew does. All my venom is directed at a single target.
Zooey, I just refilled the cup on fired up my Kiss greatest hits, I should be better soon.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:00 amZooey, I just refilled the cup on fired up my Kiss greatest hits, I should be better soon.
Comment by robert
As long as you’e alright, Robert.
Kiss…?
December 27th, 2006 at 10:04 amWell maybe the do-no-wrong Dems will outlaw the Republican party and you can have the one party system you desire. After all, it worked so well in the FORMER Soviet Union.
Comment by robert —
robert,
December 27th, 2006 at 10:05 amI don’t know of any Dems who advocate outlawing the Republican (aka Repugnacant Party). If you know of any, please tell us. On the other hand, recently disgraced Repug House Majority Leader headed a group for a permanent GOP rule (somewhat like Hitler’s 1000-year reich) and uber-conservative pundit Grover Norquist until very recently was discussing how to reduce Dems to something akin to docile, domesticated farm animals.
Tundra gets a gold star this morning!
Comment by Zooey
I agree. It’s always a sad day when we lose one of our former presidents, regardless of which political party he belonged to or how many crimes he committed while in office. Ours is one of the few nations on Earth that, under normal circumstances, enjoys a completely peaceful transfer of power, even when the results were as hotly contested as the ones in 2000. Yes, we’ve had some leaders assassinated, but these were all political in nature and not part of any coup. Even in 2001 there was no bloodshed, and to listen to some of the trolls who visit here, you would think we would have been tearing them to pieces up there. But no, the worst that happened was that Bush’s limo got pelted with eggs. (You gotta love the First Amendment.)
I’ve said it before and I will again. I will not rejoice in another one’s death. For some, I will not weep as much. James Brown’s death was one worth weeping over, but Gerald Ford’s was, I must confess, not.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:07 amAll my venom is directed at a single target.
Yeah I do that too, then I end up in a debate with someone who defends them (About a completely different topic). I really need to start stopping myself when that starts (Of course I won’t, but I should try harder)
December 27th, 2006 at 10:07 amThe guy actually had a great life, but would’ve been better off playing for the Green Bay Packers. Who turns down a chance to play in the NFL?
Comment by PoliticalCritic
I believe it was President Lyndon B. Johnson who said about Ford something like, “While I wouldn’t call him stupid, maybe he spent too many years playing football without a helmet.”
December 27th, 2006 at 10:12 amThis is not meant as my own personal feeling about Ford, as I never met the man. My gut feeling is that he may not have been the brightest but at least was honest compared to Tricky Dicky and, most of all, showed great taste in his choice of wife.
Now is not the time to be harsh in our assessment of President Gerald R. Ford. But there is no reason to make up things either, like one of the talking heads when this new broke last night.
The talking head proclaimed that Ford was the last moderate Republican. Well, Ford was hardly a “moderate”. His two Chiefs of Staff were Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. And he launched the political career of George H. W. Bush. His Vice Presidential running mate in 1976 was Bob Dole. While Ford may have been less conservative on some social issues (abortion) than Ronald Reagan I find it laughable for this talking head to describe Ford as a moderate unless one would also call George H. W. Bush a moderate as both had much in common.
Most view Ford as a caretaker President and he served well in that role. And that is not a bad legacy to have.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:20 amJames Brown’s death was one worth weeping over,
Now, that was a death that was a tragic loss to the world.
BTW, Zooey, Yes Kiss.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:20 amGood Morning all, Good post’s, I don’t have much to offer this morning except to say Thank’s to Wayne for the good post and I agree…..Ford was not a favorate of mine because of his pardon of Nixon and hiring of cheney and rummy…I don’t wish any one to die but we all will, none of us is getting out of this alive, everyone crosses over…Everyone, and to fear death only inhibit’s life….All is the process….I just hope we will not see a repeat of the regan fanfare, treating these guy’s like king’s or popes after death is disgusting…..Here’s hoping you all have a Blessed, safe New Year…Impeach in 2007
December 27th, 2006 at 10:24 amZooey,
Hell I’ll buy you the whole bar! And then we’ll slip out to the parking lot to see if Hotblack Desoto has any spare stunt ships we could steal. :)
Thanks for the free advertising for my blog which is itself free of advertising.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:24 amThanks for the free advertising for my blog which is itself free of advertising.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Anything I can do to help, Wayne. :)
Demolition Zone!!
December 27th, 2006 at 10:34 amI do have to agree that Wayne A. Schneider has a great site! And there is no need to buy me a beer, of course my saying it is a great site may work against you, sorry.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:41 amRobert
Ford’s motivation, which you can look up yourself if you want, for pardoning Nixon? So that the Nixon trial wouldn’t overshadow his presidency.
Oh, and so that the faith Americans have in the American legal system can be restored, because, shit, we all know how letting someone get away with a crime really restores people’s faith in the legal system.
Clinton’s?
Marc Rich: Marc Rich had agreed to pay a fine that was quite hefty even for this billionare - in other words, rather then leaving him in Switzerland and having America getting no benefit from it, Clinton managed to get the guy to pay ($100 mil to be exact) thereby deriving some benefit from him.
Oh yeah and do you know who his defence lawyer was? Scooter’s got some ’splainin’ to do if the rightwing is going to us this talking point.
Carlos Vignali: Wasn’t pardoned - therefore doesn’t count. What had actually happened with him was his sentence was commuted. Further, he was part of a batch of drug offenders whose sentences were commuted due to the fact that the war on drugs campaign had meant harsher then fair sentences.
Roger Clinton: Was nothing unusual and no big deal. Indeed his pardon was just one example of the most common pardons given. He had served his time, back in the eighties and indeed all that pardoning him did was clear his record and allow him to vote.
His latest drunk driving charge of course, is also blown out of proportion given the fact that the rightwing sees a man pardoning his brother, after the said brother had long since done his time, as being on a par with pardoning a president whose crimes were of such a scale as to force him to be the first President in American history every to have been forced to resign.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:44 amGeorge W. is praising Ford’s service to the country. Of course, praise from Bush to a fellow conservative is worth nothing, given the fact that he awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to three people each with a disgraceful record: Tommy Franks, George Tenet, and Paul Bremer. Bush also told Michael Brown he was doing a “heckuva job” after Katrina. And, Bush also praised Rumsfeld as having made the country “better off” as a result of his leadership. … I’m sure the list goes on.
It should be clear to everyone that praise from Bush is completely disingenuous. The man is a puppet.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:44 amGeorge W. is praising Ford’s service to the country. Of course, praise from Bush to a fellow conservative is worth nothing, given the fact that he awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to three people each with a disgraceful record: Tommy Franks, George Tenet, and Paul Bremer. Bush also told Michael Brown he was doing a “heckuva job” after Katrina. And, Bush also praised Rumsfeld as having made the country “better off” as a result of his leadership. … I’m sure the list goes on.
It should be clear to everyone that praise from Bush is completely disingenuous. The man is a puppet.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:44 am#31
I could not agree more. I am a Green in NC (after 2000, when it was made clear to me that the Dems wouldn’t fight back). I have spent the time since on varius progressive projects, but largely on third-party ballot access. Most people don’t realize the extent to which the Dems and Rethigs have carved up the country, state by state and county by county, into fiefdoms that will not allow thrid-party candidates. In some states, they simply pass laws forcing anyone who is not a D or R to jump through impossible hoops, like mind-boggling signature numbers. If they are lucky enough to get on the ballot, then unless they poll an equally ridiculous percentage of the vote, they are kicked off and have to start over again.
This happens to Libertarians, Greens, Constitution Party, and any third-party that threatens to cut votes from the Ds or Rs. They think they “own” the voters, and thrid-partis are thieves taking away their rights to ownership of the system.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:45 amTP, y’all are a great blog. But it’s really hard to carry on a conversation here because of the post delay.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:49 amI can’t believe that newspapers are referring to Gerald Ford as “a great American who united the country.” Since when does pardoning a traitor make you “a great American”? And if he “united the country,” then why didn’t he win the election in 1976?? Typical media-sponsored republican propaganda.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:49 amThank you, robert. I haven’t had the time to devote to it that I would like, and I have to post things from work. Some day I will be able to spend more time researching things and do more of the non-parody entries. In the meantime, I try to post the silly stuff when I get the chance (after I write it). If you like Billy Joel and hate Bill O’Reilly, you might enjoy “Lying Man”. There’s a link to it on the sidebar on my blog.
Thanks for the kind words.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:51 amBruce Gorton,
I have never said that Ford was right to pardon Nixon. I pointed out the ALL presidents have pardoned people that were questionable and many have abused the power of pardon.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:53 amGeorge W. is praising Ford’s service to the country. Of course, praise from Bush to a fellow conservative is worth nothing
Typical media-sponsored republican propaganda.
Sponsored by Senator Byrd (D),
What a disgraceful man huh, looks like the Republicans pulled the wool on Ford’s true intentions over his eyes as well.
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/ apps/ pbcs.dll/ article?AID=/ 20061227/ NEWS01/ 61227012/ 1001/ NEWS10
Ford’s motivation, which you can look up yourself if you want, for pardoning Nixon? So that the Nixon trial wouldn’t overshadow his presidency.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:55 amMay I ask what authority can speak for the true motivation of president Ford?
Wayne,
I am not a Billy Joel fan, and find O’Reilly “entertaining”, but void of real journalistic merit, but I did look at “Lying Man” and laughed my a** off. Good stuff, indead.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:56 amThis is one registered Democrat that is extremely disappointed with what I read here this morning.
Gerald Ford was a humble and decent man who served his country honorably. He was a 13 term Representative that did a fine job of representing the views of those who elected him. He never sought the Presidency, but when he had it thrust upon him he again served admirably. He brought honesty and integrity to an address that had forgotten what those traits were.
Ford is by no means responsible for the behavior of those who came after him. There will be a special place in Hell for the likes of Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, but to place the blame of their dishonesty on Gerald Ford is silly.
There is no doubt that Nixon deserved to rot in prison for his actions, but Ford was right to pardon him. This country did not need to wallow in the excesses and abuses of power that Watergate represented.
What bothers me most today, however, is the hypocrisy that I see on this board. We blast the right for their divisive politics and blasphemous rhetoric I see nothing but a mirror image in most of these posts. If those who are NOT members of the radical right of this country do not begin to LISTEN to those who do not agree with us, and recognize that there are a plethora of points of view in this country…not just “left/right”, “liberal/conservative”, we will never pull ourselves out of the pit we are digging!
May President Ford rest in peace, his family be comforted and history treat him well.
Dan Bell
December 27th, 2006 at 10:59 amRequiem Aeternam, Gerald Ford. Dona nobis pacem.
Ford will forever be remembered as the man who pardoned Nixon. And he was the first non-elected President of the United States.
He came into power under difficult circumstances, politically, following the first impeachment in decades, and economically, as the effect of removing Nixon’s wage and price controls would trigger the rampant inflation that eventually helped to bring down Carter.
I may not have agreed with pardoning Nixon, but I did respect Gerald Ford.
Requiem Aeternam, Gerald Ford. Dona nobis pacem.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:01 amrobert
The right to pardon is one of the few real powers presidents have, and whatever pardon one gives will always be questionable, its just a matter of degree.
To my mind Ford was a wholly unremarkable president in most things, just too loyal for the good of the country but at least his economy wasn’t bad, which is quite an achievement gÃven what oil was doing back then.
That said, a lot of what is being said about him is a load of kack. He lost that election to Carter for a very good reason, and to pretend otherwise would be hypocrisy in and of itself. If Carter died tomorrow he would not be lauded for what ultimately was his worst failure, the Iranian hostage crisis, though he would be honoured for the good he did.
That said, my feelings on the whole thing is one should not celebrate the demise of others, one should note the good they did, and move on. Any more smacks of gloating, which is just crass whether it is over a dead president, or a dead ditch digger.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:04 ambut at least his economy wasn’t bad
Respectfully, I beg to differ, Bruce. I was fourteen when Ford ascended to the presidency, but one of the things I remember from his term were the “WIN” buttons (to inspire us to “whip inflation now”). I remember long gas lines and rationing. I don’t blame Ford for any of it. (In fact, I wish that Nixon hadn’t publicly mused that the price of oil was too low.) But I confess that my memory isn’t what it used to be, at least, what I can remember of what it used to be.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:11 amFord’s motivation, which you can look up yourself if you want, for pardoning Nixon? So that the Nixon trial wouldn’t overshadow his presidency.
Oh, and so that the faith Americans have in the American legal system can be restored, because, shit, we all know how letting someone get away with a crime really restores people’s faith in the legal system.
Which is it?
That said, my feelings on the whole thing is one should not celebrate the demise of others, one should note the good they did, and move on. Any more smacks of gloating, which is just crass whether it is over a dead president, or a dead ditch digger.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:12 amTundra
http://www.time.com/ time/ magazine/ article/ 0,9171,912403,00.html
December 27th, 2006 at 11:14 amTundra
Both. People are complicated enough to have more then one motive for doing something.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:17 amSorry to be OT here, but I just heard a snippet of news — maybe someone has heard more of the details than I caught:
December 27th, 2006 at 11:18 aman American soldier who has been missing for two years with no word — apparently the army has finally admitted that it has known for a long time that he was tortured and killed, and they just informed the family.
I suppose this is a good time to release news items like this because people are preoccupied elsewhere this week, and with Ford’s death, the media can cover only one story.
Bruce,
Ford recalls that after becoming President, he learned from Watergate Prosecutor Leon Jaworski that the case against Nixon was “wide-ranging” and could “take years” to settle. He feared that Nixon “would not spend time quietly at San Clemente.” Says Ford: “It would be virtually impossible for me to direct public attention to anything else … [At Yale Law School] I learned that public policy often took precedence over rule of law.” Consequently, he decided to pardon Nixon “to get the monkey off my back one way or the other.” Ford adds: “Compassion for Nixon as an individual hadn’t prompted my decision at all.”
Did you read that as
December 27th, 2006 at 11:21 amSo that the Nixon trial wouldn’t overshadow his presidency.?
Tundra
Telling the truth over someone’s achievement or lack thereof is in no way distasteful, even when they are dead. Truth ultimately trumps good manners.
What does not is…
December 27th, 2006 at 11:22 amGood to see that most of you are being respectful on Ford’s passing (Wayne, Tundra, Zooey)
A few of you, however, can’t see past your blind hatred of all things republican. Comments to the effect of “good riddance, rot in hell” are repulsive and do nothing to further your cause — in fact they do the opposite by making the average person turn away from your ugly rhetoric.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:25 amAfter all, it worked so well in the FORMER Soviet Union.
Comment by robert
Soviet Union was hardly a democracy.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:30 amTundra
That and another source; the book.
The whole thing is, think about this for a second, how many long, high profile cases have been, that were not dissuaded by the bullshit argument that they would disrupt goverment? The Mafia was taken down. The KKK was taken down. Heck Robert Kennedy even had a go at the labour unions, all went ahead even though the people at the top were noisy, powerful figures that took a lot of taking down.
Even the Jacob Zuma trials in South Africa were not dissuaded by the fact that Jacob is a noisy Zulu with a lot of popular support.
No, his argument betrayed his true motive, he was afraid that his legacy would forever be suffocated by Nixon’s trial, which would have taken years, been a press bonanza, and ultimately not been the only thing on the news because, get this, even back in the seventies people didn’t have that long a attention span.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:41 amTruth ultimately trumps good manners.
Agreed,
Ford’s motivation, which you can look up yourself if you want, for pardoning Nixon? So that the Nixon trial wouldn’t overshadow his presidency.
Is an attack on his character. I have read alot on the subject and I have never read anything that gave me the impression that he was a selfish man. In fact everything I have read by people from all walks of life, was that he was a man of great character who cared more about the country than his personal achievements. Call his decision wrong, fine. But saying he did it for himself so that his presidency wouldn’t be overshadowed is insulting to his memory.
December 27th, 2006 at 11:43 amTundra
No, it is remembering him for what he was, not some fairy tale uniter-of-the-people and restorer-of-the-faith. In a lot of ways I see that as being more insulting, because it doesn’t touch the complexity of Gerald Ford as a person, it just turns him into another political talking point, a martyr to some cause rather then a person.
Besides, it is my direct take on Ford’s own words, filtered through what I have observed through my own life. Like I said, there have always been big cases, sometimes even bigger ones *cough*Nuremberg*cough* but his argument, that it would take attention away from his own presidency, ultimately showed his motive in pardoning Nixon.
We can discuss the motives of the dead, so long as we are honest and don’t do it with rancour, what we shouldn’t be doing is celebrating that they have died.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:01 pm#36 HH
December 27th, 2006 at 12:07 pmThough Ford was a likable man, I never forgave him for pardoning Nixon. He said it was to “end the national nightmareâ€, but in reality it was only to end the nightmare for Republicans.
I agree with you. He always impressed me as a fairly nice man, but that pardon of Nixon is one of the reasons he later lost to Jimmy Carter.
The press treated Ford as a buffoon, and while he may have been in over his head as President, he did put an end to the nightmare of the Nixon years and the Repugs should be eternally grateful.
Was Rumsfeld his Chief of staff?
The media were correct in treating Ford as a buffoon because he was one. Whats unfortunate is that the same media treats the current buffoon like he’s the king. Whats up with that?
December 27th, 2006 at 12:11 pmWe have the right to say what we want about Gerald Ford; the man, the president; dead or alive. We still live in a democracy.
It amazes me that posters on this thread take Gerald Ford at his word; that he did not want the country to got through the nightmare of a Nixon trial. What Nixon did was treasonous. Nixon and Ford had a deal worked out.
Where was Gerald Ford and the other honorable republicans when their party was putting the country through the nightmare of trying to impeach Clinton? Why didn’t they say that tearing the country apart over sex was just as disgusting as tearing the country apart over treason?
December 27th, 2006 at 12:11 pm.
Years from now when GWB kicks the bucket, people all over the world will be celebrating. First thing that popped into my head this morning upon hearing about Ford’s death.
Comment by Kurt — December 27, 2006 @ 7:52 am
no time to read all the comments, and this is about as far as i got -
but, the first thing i thought of this morning, and of course it was wall-to-wall ford coverage on the a.m. shows, was:
this could be the perfect diversion for something big and bad from bushco…
could have been mentioned already, no doubt was… we’ve been programmed to expect the dirty tricks…
December 27th, 2006 at 12:13 pmjust sayin’…
.
Where was Gerald Ford and the other honorable republicans when their party was putting the country through the nightmare of trying to impeach Clinton? Why didn’t they say that tearing the country apart over sex was just as disgusting as tearing the country apart over treason?
Comment by Republicans are the fear and smear party — December 27, 2006 @ 12:11 pm
a most excellent point.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:16 pm.
Gerald Ford was a marginal unimportant president who was appointed to the position, not elected, after Tricky Dicky Nixon resigned from the presidency. Ford accomplished absolutely zero as president and was soundly rejected by the voters in 1976 and Jimmy Carter became president. Gerald’s passing away sould be given the dignity of any American, but to crown him with praises is rediculous, since our leaders are not kings nor gods either!
December 27th, 2006 at 12:20 pmWhy didn’t they say that tearing the country apart over sex was just as disgusting as tearing the country apart over treason?
Because you lack the ability to research
http://www.pub.umich.edu/ daily/ 1998/ oct/ 10-05-98/ news/ news3.html
Ford joined the ranks yesterday of those who are looking for a way out of the current imbroglio. In an essay in yesterday’s New York Times, he wrote that, although he is not interested in “rescuing” Clinton, he is deeply concerned that the scandal is deflecting focus from more important government issues.
“I do care, passionately, about rescuing the country I love from further turmoil or uncertainty,” he wrote.
To that end, Ford proposed that Clinton stand in the well of the House and, before live television cameras, be subjected to a public scourging that would culminate with his censure.
“No spinning, no semantics, no evasiveness or blaming others for his plight,” Ford wrote. “Let all this be done without partisan exploitation or mean-spiritedness. Let it be dignified, honest, and above all, cleansing. The result, I believe, would be the first moment of majesty in an otherwise squalid year.”
At the White House, special counsel Gregory Craig did not reject the idea. Instead, Craig said Ford is “absolutely right” in suggesting that impeachment is not the proper punishment for Clinton’s errors.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:22 pmWhere was Gerald Ford and the other honorable republicans when their party was putting the country through the nightmare of trying to impeach Clinton? Why didn’t they say that tearing the country apart over sex was just as disgusting as tearing the country apart over treason?
Comment by Republicans are the fear and smear party — December 27, 2006 @ 12:11 pm
Had Clinton been a Republican, you can bet Ford and the other honorable Repubs would have been vocal. Now that you mention it, I also recall that some politicians are downplaying calls for impeaching Bush for similar reasons…they don’t want to put the country through it.
Funny that the founding fathers gave us the power to remove a President from office who had stepped out of bounds, yet we are too timid to follow through when it’s most needed.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:25 pmWhere was Gerald Ford and the other honorable republicans when their party was putting the country through the nightmare of trying to impeach Clinton?
As noted he was there, you just don’t listen to Republicans so you couldn’t hear him.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:26 pmi just heard on thom hartman that ford did call for CENSURE of clinton, instead of impeachment (?)…
December 27th, 2006 at 12:30 pmjust to make a note of that…
back to my day…
.
Had Clinton been a Republican, you can bet Ford and the other honorable Repubs would have been vocal.
A New York Times editorial wasn’t vocal enough?
December 27th, 2006 at 12:33 pmMay he rest in peace. Ford was a loyal GOP and did what any loyal soldier would do that is protect the President of the United States. When Nixon lied to Americans and committed so many crimes his other loyal cabinet members couldn’t get the impeachment committee to believe their lies. Yes Nixon got caught. We had Spiro Agnew who already resigned as a criminal now Nixon did the right thing. Always a smart man Nixon picked Ford. An honest loyal Republican and his job was to heal America and pardon the President. We knew Nixon was going to be impeached after John Dean’s testimony. Ford did his job well. He said what needed to be said at a time our country had the worse crook in office. Ford pardon Nixon to save the Republican party from the history of the first impeached President.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:35 pmDeja vu As Cheney used the Nixon corrupt plan and now Bush and Cheney will fall as did Spiro and Nixon who will be the next loyal soldier appointed to save the President and Republicans this time. As the Bush/Cheney corruption and criminal acts has surpassed Nixon and become the number one scandal in the history of the United States. They say if you live long enough you see the same thing again well here we have another Presidential corruption by Bush and it does harm national security.
A New York Times editorial wasn’t vocal enough?
Comment by Tundra — December 27, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
Sorry…your post hadn’t appeared when I submitted mine. And thanks for posting Ford’s take on Clinton’s impeachment.
On the other hand, unless Ford’s distaste for a Clinton impeachment had been plastered on the front page of newspapers across the land, and/or had been the topic of discussion for several days on TV (you know…like missing white girls or the divorce of a certain young singer), I doubt many people would have known or remembered it. Not everyone subscribes to the NYT.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:41 pmRichard M. Nixon should have been tried for the crimes with which he was accused.
Gerald Ford, after he promised Congress that he would NOT pardon Nixon, broke his promise, making his first promise perjury.
He and Nixon became co-unindicted co-conspirators.
You will never hear me refer to either of them as “President” anything. They both resigned their entitlement to that title.
They are just irrelevant hucksters who fooled some of the people for a little while. They never fooled me. My flag will not be at half-mast for this huckster, just as it was not a half-mast for the unindicted co-conspirator.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:45 pmkaty
It was co-authored by Ford and Carter.
Personally I feel it was basically a way to get the same result the Republicans wanted, without actually forcing them to bring a case forward.
After all, the case basically can be summed us as Bill Clinton lied about having consentual sexual relations with a rather plain looking Jewish chick while within earshot of his wife, a woman most Republicans find kinda scary.
Not exactly the strongest grounds for Impeachment I have ever heard.
But then again, this is me just being cynical.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:47 pmTundra…I seriously doubt that Gerald Ford ever said anything about anyone because I “lack the ability to research.” I don’t have that kind of power over people. If I did, then George Bush would never have been born.
Just because I did not remember what Gerald Ford said doesn’t mean I don’t listen to republicans. That’s a connection that only a neocon could make. Ronald Reagan, “the great communicator,” said “I don’t remember” about 100 times during the Iran-Contra hearings.
And where was the chorus of republicans who agreed with Ford about sparing the country from the nightmare of impeachment proceedings? Deadly silent for some strange reason.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:48 pmComment by Republicans are the fear and smear party — December 27, 2006 @ 12:48 pm
Basically you said.
Where was Gerald Ford and the other honorable republicans when their party was putting the country through the nightmare of trying to impeach Clinton?
And now instead of saying, wow I was wrong, Ford didn’t want to put the country through it, I shouldn’t have made that assumption about former President Gerald Ford, you are saying.
Neocon
But Regan
Other Republicans
This is a thread about Gerald Ford. You are the one that decided to throw up a bogus claim that was very easily disputed. Typical for you, you redirect the problem to be about other people.
Here’s a little tip, if you start looking at his opinion of Jr, you may be surprised at how much he didn’t like him (And made public statements). But you know what they are both Republicans so he is automatically wrong.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:56 pmRead about Gerald Ford’s burial plot and how kids used to skateboard in it:
http://blogs.zmag.org/node/2915
Neither the NYTimes nor the Washington Post talk about Ford’s role in the Indonesian invasion of East Timor. But Democracy Now! gave it extensive coverage:
http://www.democracynow.org/ article.pl?sid=06/ 12/ 27/ 1638254
December 27th, 2006 at 12:59 pmTundra…Instead of understanding what I wrote and answering the question you say:
bogus claim
redirect the problem
automatically wrong
project much?
December 27th, 2006 at 1:06 pmI can’t remember what he did?
December 27th, 2006 at 1:15 pmComment by Republicans are the fear and smear party — December 27, 2006 @ 1:06 pm
OK, which question would you like answered?
Regan, couldn’t care less what he said. I wasn’t defending him and won’t on Iran Contra.
Other Republicans standing behind Ford. I can’t speak for them, as they weren’t the basis for your original claim that I disputed. I never disputed that many other republicans were for impeachment. But then again I never said they weren’t. I’m not defending them against your claim.
I defended Gerald Ford against your extremely ill informed (Almost ignorant)post.
Where was Gerald Ford and the other honorable republicans when their party was putting the country through the nightmare of trying to impeach Clinton?
By providing you a link to him being against it in a national magazine. Stories and articles ran all over from October 4th (When it was pushed) until after October 30th.
Now if you are looking for defense of Regan or Defense of all the republicans the did support Impeachment you aren’t going to get it from me. I was simply expecting you to admit you were wrong and your post was wrong. Of course I know better from you.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:16 pmTundra
Here is a basic translation:
Of course, you have to play the whiny-titty-baby and pretend the Republicans, currently known for corruption, ineptitude and stupidity are a movement of martyrs don’t you?
December 27th, 2006 at 1:22 pmI did not remember Gerald Ford saying anything about the disgraceful impeachment hearings. That is not the same thing as being wrong. It is the same thing as not remembering.
I asked “Where was Gerald Ford..?” and you answered. This is not a matter of wrong and right, it is a matter of question and answer. But your claim that another poster is “wrong” is what I expect from you.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:28 pmWhy do liberals hate so much? Gerald Ford was a good man. Democrats are just as dirty as the GOP - please stop hating.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:28 pm#84 - Where was Gerald Ford and the other honorable republicans when their party was putting the country through the nightmare of trying to impeach Clinton? Why didn’t they say that tearing the country apart over sex was just as disgusting as tearing the country apart over treason?
You got me there - evidently, when the shoe is on the other foot, the rules change.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:29 pmThe Repugs owe Ford for pardoning Nixon (against public opinion, including mine) and I will never forgive the Repugs for impeaching Clinton over a lie about sex (against public opinion, includine mine).
If the congress ever gets around to impeaching Bush for his numerous violations of federal laws and international treaties, there should be no one pressing for his pardon. After his impeachment and removal from office, he should stand trial at the Hague - but I will wager that the Repugs will want to “look forward” and not dwell on the past with impeachment and trials.
I would prefer to call Bush’s impeachment small justice for unforgiveable crimes.
Tundra…You are obviously an antagonistic troll. Republicans aren’t just currently known for corruption. They have been known as the party of corruption since Nixon and his pardon by Ford. Please do the research.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:36 pmRepublicans, currently known for corruption, ineptitude and stupidity are a movement of martyrs don’t you?
You must eat paint chips. I defended one person against a clearly wrong claim.
Now somehow I give a rats ass about the rest of the Republicans?
Somehow I feel Regan was right with Iran Contra
I’m trying to say that the rest of the republicans have the same conviction that Ford had?
Yeah OK…
Try this one on, (Fear and Smear) there said Ford never did this.
Katy said yeah, WC said Yeah
I say yes see here (Include Link)
Katy and WC said ‘Oh I was wrong”
He says “Regan, Iran contra, rest of repubs”
I say “I could care about them”
He says “Yeah rest of repubs”
I say “Umm you were wrong, just friggin admit it”
You say “Yeah you are defending all republicans, whinny-titty-baby”
I say “Focus, I realize it may be difficult without your medication, but I am not a republican. I couldn’t care less that they are known now for all their screwups.”
All I was asking is for (Fear and Smear) there to say “Oh I was wrong, that was a bad statement”
But in true slanderous rabid dog syndrome he won’t. Of course now he has brought you along for the ride. What other things do we want to try and redirect or associate to me?
Since obviously this statement:
December 27th, 2006 at 1:36 pmWhere was Gerald Ford and the other honorable republicans when their party was putting the country through the nightmare of trying to impeach Clinton?
(The only one I disputed) Means so much more.
Bruce Gorton is Hateful
Why do Republicans whine so much? When Gerald Ford okayed the invasion of East Timor, pardoned what was probably the biggest crime in American history, and failed to even win one term of office?
Why do Republicans constantly accuse others of being hateful, when ultimately their spokesmen, and women, are the first to call the widows of 9/11 “The witches of East-Brunswick” when those women disagree with them?
Why do Republicans, who impeached a president over getting a blowjob from a pentagon secretary, get so indignant when a liberal mentions that illegal wire-taps are, you know illegal?
Why do Republicans get to act like martyrs to some goddamned cause, when ultimately they are the guys who made it illegal for detainees to complain about being tortured, and made it perfectly legal to accept evidence gained by torture in America’s court rooms?
Tell me, why are Republicans such babies about people wanting to hear the truth, and not a bunch of fairy tales?
December 27th, 2006 at 1:38 pmI believe Ford was wrong to pardon Nixon - I think seeing a disgraced president stand trial would have been the best proof that this is ‘ a country of laws, not of men.”
The biggest problem with Ford was that he was totally unprepared to be president - his highest aspiration was Speaker of the House. He was appointed when Agnew resigned as a benign placeholder - neither he nor Nixon expected him to become the president. As the only un-elected president ever, he does have a place in history.
I voted for Carter instead of Ford because of the pardon - I was a protest organizer and ran the information table for the peace group at my college, and have voted democratic in ever election but one (Tom McCall of Oregon) but for those of you too young to remember, back in the 1960’s and ’70’s there WERE decent republicans. Today they’d get booted in the primary by the religious right.
All that said, Ford was a decent man, republican or not, and while he didn’t spend his retirement doing good like Carter, he didn’t spend it doing evil like GHWB. Mostly he golfed for charity, I think.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:46 pmOh, what’s that? Read that first bit. Yes Tundra, that bit where he says “Just because I did not remember what Gerald Ford said doesn’t mean I don’t listen to republicans”
You know, where he actually admits to having gotten it wrong, but then turns around and points out that he does listen to what Republicans have to say, and even gives an example he remembers quite clearly.
Of course, distorting what he had to say and then acting like the Republicans are some kind of martyrdom movement, really is so much easier then actually reading what he had to say now isn’t it?
December 27th, 2006 at 1:47 pmFord was a criminal for his pardoning of Nixon and his work on the Warren Commission, and he was well compensated for his ( evil ) deeds.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:54 pmdistorting what he had to say
OK, Who’s distorting?
and then acting like the Republicans are some kind of martyrdom movement
Where did I ever defend the Republicans, much less act like the Party as a whole is a martyrdom movement?
See I tend to judge people and instances, I don’t drag down a whole party because of one person or incident. I also don’t raise the whole party up because of one good person. Do I think because a Democratic congressman was investigated by the FBI that they are all corrupt? Nope.
Also the rest of the republican party doesn’t get credit for Gerald Ford standing against the Clinton Impeachment.
See when you don’t have to look at the whole world, you don’t have to group people as tightly.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:01 pmpowkat
Ford wasn’t actually a bad president when all is said and told. The fact is that he was supremely, forgettable. His place in history is a place-holder, and sadly that is not the place any of us would choose. He was badly advised (Kissinger no less) and generally treat unfairly by the press, but he had his successes, such as the final withdrawal of the US from Vietnam, the Helsinki accords (Which led to human rights watch) etc…
The thing of it is, one just wishes those very real successes were the emphasis of media attention, rather then some amorpheous “Uniter ot the people” myth that was proved mythical when Carter beat him.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:01 pmWhy do Republicans whine so much? When Gerald Ford okayed the invasion of East Timor, pardoned what was probably the biggest crime in American history, and failed to even win one term of office?
Well then, by your markers Al Gore and John Kerry must be defective too. Neither of them have won a single term in office either.
Why do Republicans constantly accuse others of being hateful, when ultimately their spokesmen, and women, are the first to call the widows of 9/11 “The witches of East-Brunswick†when those women disagree with them?
What gives these 5 women any special “moral authority” over the hundreds of 9/11 families that have supported the Afghanistan operation? For the record, I do not agree with them being called “The witches of East-Brunswickâ€, but if you put yourself in the public eye, you become a target to someone.
Why do Republicans, who impeached a president over getting a blowjob from a pentagon secretary, get so indignant when a liberal mentions that illegal wire-taps are, you know illegal?
Why do SOME Democrats believe that the rule of law should be subjective. Lying under oath is a crime, period.
Why do Republicans get to act like martyrs to some goddamned cause, when ultimately they are the guys who made it illegal for detainees to complain about being tortured, and made it perfectly legal to accept evidence gained by torture in America’s court rooms?
While I disagree with abuse, it is a military issue, not a law enforcement issue.
Tell me, why are Republicans such babies about people wanting to hear the truth, and not a bunch of fairy tales?
Same reason that SOME Democrats do the same thing.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:08 pmComment by Bruce Gorton
Tundra:
You want to know?
Right there. You pretend we automatically consider all Republicans wrong - just one of many common cliche’s used by Republicans to play the martyr. We give a reasoned argument, you respond with that crap, and that particular phrase always makes me see red - including when people substitute themselves for the word “Republicans.”
December 27th, 2006 at 2:08 pmRight there. You pretend we automatically consider all Republicans wrong
Um I never said you did. If you are associating what I say to him as directed at you as well, I can’t help you.
I made that comment to someone who uses the name:
Republicans are the fear and smear party
Pretty much tells me that he sees all of them together. I never associated you with it or anyone else on this site for that matter. You are using WE and aligning yourself with HIM and what I say to HIM. You are also associating me with republicans, I am not, and still have not defended them.
I have not said Democrats are bad, I did not say Bruce Gorton is bad, I said “Republicans are the fear and Smear party” doesn’t listen to Republicans, makes outragous claims and then goes off the wall.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:18 pmWhy do SOME Democrats believe that the rule of law should be subjective. Lying under oath is a crime, period.
Comment by robert — December 27, 2006 @ 2:08 pm
So the severity of the crime has no bearing on the punishment? Theft is a crime, too. Should a person who shoplifts a t-shirt from Wal-Mart spend as much time in prison as someone who robs a bank of $3 million?
December 27th, 2006 at 2:24 pmrobert
Al Gore won the 2000 election on a clear majority, and a recount would have meant he would have become president. The fact is that the highly conservative (Count the Republicans) supreme court, you know the same one that Republicans whine about being liberal, stopped the recount.
Kerry, is defective. The guy is just about the worst candidate you could imagine. He lost that election, but still came quite close given that Bush is a war-time president and people tend not to change presidents in a war.
Neither of them have, to my knowledge, okayed a genocidal invasion of a foreign country by a dictator, and neither of them had pardoned a high ranking official of a high crime or misdemeanor.
Further, I am not arguing that losing made Ford defective, Ford losing simply demonstrated that he had not united America - hence trying to turn him into a uniter is dishonest.
As to what gives the women who lost loved ones in 9/11 moral authority? Nothing. Of course they have never asked for any. Most of their views are based off of research they had gone to the trouble to put together, after being motivated by the loss of their loved ones.
But do you know what, you start going on about how the widows of Republican soldiers are happy their husbands are dead, the way Coulter did about the 9/11 widows, then you are going to quite deservedly lose some teeth and be vilified for it. So far, I have only heard a few distance themselves, the vast majority, such as yourself, make up arguments to try and defend her.
As to making court procedings like, you know, what constitutes legal evidence, something other then a legal issue, well you are just stupid. Sorry, that is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:25 pmTundra
Ag, I’ll accept that then if you will accept my apology, its just I see that phrase and it literally drives me up the wall. I have been hearing this from people who defend apartheid so I think you can see why it is a trigger phrase for me.
That said, if you read what RATFASP was saying, he admitted to having gotten it wrong in the end.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:28 pmI do listen to republicans.
I did not make an outrageous claim.
I did not go off the wall.
Please stop getting hysterical. Thank you.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:28 pmComment by Tundra — December 27, 2006 @ 1:36 pm
Er….I didn’t say I was wrong. I simply thanked you for posting an excerpt of Ford’s words. I don’t remember him saying what he did in respect to the Clinton impeachment.
But if you are going to translate my response into “I was wrong,” then you can do the same for “Fear and Smear.” I didn’t remember Ford’s words. Neither did F & S.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:30 pmBut do you know what, you start going on about how the widows of Republican soldiers are happy their husbands are dead, the way Coulter did about the 9/11 widows, then you are going to quite deservedly lose some teeth and be vilified for it. So far, I have only heard a few distance themselves, the vast majority, such as yourself, make up arguments to try and defend her.
Gee have I ever defended Coulter? Sorry, the answer is no. But at the same time, their opinions are theirs and that does not make them untouchable. Like I said, if you put yourself in the public eye, someone will shoot at you.
As to making court procedings like, you know, what constitutes legal evidence, something other then a legal issue, well you are just stupid. Sorry, that is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.
The point is that we need to try the detainees as either Enemy Combatants or as Criminals and stop making the line in between so fuzzy. If they were shooting at troops in a combat zone, they are Combatants.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:36 pmAg, I’ll accept that then if you will accept my apology None needed, messageboards are hard to “Read” what someone means.
Its just I see that phrase and it literally drives me up the wall.
I know that feeling, seeing his name kinda does the same for me. I just get the feeling that anyone who would use that name is so close minded that they will only listen to one side of an argument. His posts do it too, everytime something happens it’s “All republicans”
That said, if you read what RATFASP was saying, he admitted to having gotten it wrong in the end.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:38 pmPoint noted and accepted.
I am not apologizing for anything. I asked a question and Tundra answered it, then expects an apology for providing an answer to a question. What sense does that make?
December 27th, 2006 at 2:40 pmGod bless Gerald R. Ford and his family.
In 2001, President Ford was the recipent of John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award at a ceremony at the John F. Kennedy Library and Museum on Columbia Point in Boston. In awarding President Ford the honor, Carline Kennedy said, ” “As President, he made a controversial decision of conscience to pardon former president Nixon and end the national trauma of Watergate. In doing so, he placed his love of country ahead of his own political future.”
Sen. Edward Kennedy, who bitterly denounced the pardon of Richard Nixon, also praised Mr. Ford in 2001, recanting his earlier harsh waords. Sen. Kennedy said that Mr. Ford, by that pardon, had proved that “politics can be a noble profession … I was one of those who spoke out against his action then. But time has a way of clarifying past events, and now we see that President Ford was right. His courage and dedication to our country made it possible for us to begin the process of healing and put the tragedy of Watergate behind us.”
The Kennedys were correct in 2001. We Americans owe a debt of gratitude to Gerald Ford. And we mourn his passing.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:44 pmI have decided to change my name to Tundra.
That ought to make everything I post sound fair.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:46 pmEr….I didn’t say I was wrong. I simply thanked you for posting an excerpt of Ford’s words. I don’t remember him saying what he did in respect to the Clinton impeachment.
Sorry…your post hadn’t appeared when I submitted mine. And thanks for posting Ford’s take on Clinton’s impeachment.
My Apologies, I took the “Sorry” as an “Oops, made a mistake, lets go on”
I took Katy’s i just heard on thom hartman that ford did call for CENSURE of clinton, instead of impeachment (?)…
just to make a note of that…
back to my day…
As a “Here are the correct facts, ignore my previous post”
I took his barbs as
“So, Republicans still suck, see Regan. Where is everybody else then, huh huh”
Either way, it’s a dead horse with him. I shall accept that his “I did not remember what Ford said” is admitting that the article exists.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:47 pmrobert
In which case they are subject to Geneva, they get all the rights and protections therein, including the right to a fair trial should they be charged with crimes, and including the right to send censored letters to their loved ones with a return adress.
POW’s don’t have to stand trial and nor should they, they aren’t criminals, but they do have rights, including the right to humane treatment. They also have a right to make their grievances known, to send letters home telling their families they are okay and in enemy hands (With a return postal address) etc… There are even provisions for civilian POWs.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:47 pmTundra…FINALLY you understand! You finally made a non-judgmental comment! I do acknowledge that the article exists! And you are the person who pointed it out! And it’s real! And Ford really did say it! And it was during the impeachment proceedings and not after! Now I know where Gerald Ford was and what he said! Thank you!
December 27th, 2006 at 2:55 pmBruce Gorton, #132,
I argee 100%. THey should be treated as combatants and handeled in accordance to the Geneva Conventions. With that said, the GC also allows them to be held until the end of the conflict. Dare to guess a date for that?
December 27th, 2006 at 3