Gerald Ford opposed the Iraq war.
By on Dec 28th, 2006 at 10:57 am
Gerald Ford opposed the Iraq war.
In an interview in July 2004, the former president said he “very strongly” disagreed with the justifications the Bush administration gave for invading Iraq. “I don’t think, if I had been president, on the basis of the facts as I saw them publicly,” Ford said, “I don’t think I would have ordered the Iraq war. I would have maximized our effort through sanctions, through restrictions, whatever, to find another answer.” The interview “took place for a future book project, though he said his comments could be published at any time after his death.”
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Business
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Education
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Global Warming
Health Care
Hoffman
Immigration
International Relations
Iraq
Justice
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Media
Military
O'Reilly
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Politics
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Tea Party
Terrorism
Veterans
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
Well, to quote C. Montgomery Burns, who sarcastically said in a Simpsons episode, “Thank you, President Ford!”
December 28th, 2006 at 11:02 amI saw on the BBC website yesterday in the comment section a spot where you could “Voice Your Tribute to President Ford”. I wonder what they will post when GW pases on and finally does this world a favor. Will they have a “Release Your Vile Venom for Jackass Bush” page ready?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:04 amJust another example of party loyalty over loyalty to the American people.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:05 amThis disclosure polished off any good feeling buzz I ever had about Ford. Let me get this straight. He held off a critical comment about the war while our soldiers are dieing over there right now? He covered for Nixon, and now, he was covering for Bush until he died.
Sorry, no bonus points for divulging after he died. He could have layed there in a coma for another two years.
The interview “took place for a future book project, though he said his comments could be published at any time after his death.â€
Hell yeah!! F*ck America!
Ford didn’t want to get swiftboated at this late stage of his life?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:07 amGo figure.
Does this mean it is now OK to call him a traitor, a coward and the worst president ever?
-Karl Rove
December 28th, 2006 at 11:08 amFord said, “I don’t think I would have ordered the Iraq war.”
Saying this 3 years earlier might have saved a lot of innocent lives, don’t you think?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:08 amFord didn’t want to get swiftboated at this late stage of his life?
Go figure.
Comment by Zooey — December 28, 2006 @ 11:07 am
Or he wanted there to be information in the book that noone knew so that they would buy it.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:08 amIf we can’t think for ourselves, if we’re unwilling to question authority, then we’re just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit. In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:09 am– Carl Sagan
Democrat John Edwards: I’m running for president
In his message to supporters, Edwards listed five priorities to change America. Among them: “Guaranteeing health care for every single American,” “Strengthening our middle class and ending the shame of poverty,” “Leading the fight against global warming,” and “Getting America and the world to break our addiction to oil.”
He has positioned himself as a serious contender. He’s been strengthening his ties to labor and other Democratic activists behind the scenes, rebuilding a top-notch campaign staff and honing his skills. The efforts have made him the leading candidate in early polls of Iowa Democrats who will get the first say in the nomination fight.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/12/28/edwards.ap/index.html
December 28th, 2006 at 11:09 amHow brave of you, Mr. Ford. I’m certain that in your many years of public service that you may have done some good, and for that I thank you.
However, your insistence that your “opposition” to the Iraq war not be made public until after your death displays a cowardice that is becoming all too familiar with recent republican presidents. It is quite pathetic and not at all in tradition with men (and women) of honor and integrity.
Rest in peace. We will clean up the mess that frightened you so.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:11 amOr he wanted there to be information in the book that noone knew so that they would buy it.
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 11:08 am
Uh, slight problem with that logic – he’s dead…
December 28th, 2006 at 11:11 amZooey –
Maybe he was worried he might have to be called back to office to pardon Darth Cheney and his sockpuppet Dubya beofe he died.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:12 amWill we see the right-wing noise machine attack Ford, whom the preznit just praised as a “great man”, or will it be sufficient to attack Woodward?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:13 amSadly, Harry Reid is such scum he won’t even attend the funeral of a president. Man the Dems know how to really piss the mass’ off.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:14 amExplain this:
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=297
December 28th, 2006 at 11:15 amIn every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights.
Comment by Larry from C — December 28, 2006 @ 11:09 am
Don’t get me started on this… If more people knew what they are actually taught in high school Government classes…
Time to abandon NCLB. You can get rid of the tiny percentage of bad teachers though evaluations – not by forcing standardized tests and curriculum on the students. It just makes them hate politics and not get involved. Hence, an entire generation that can’t do more than reguritate memorized facts long enough to pass a test….
December 28th, 2006 at 11:16 amOr he wanted there to be information in the book that noone knew so that they would buy it.
Comment by Tundra
That’s the best reason to hold back I’ve heard so far! NOT.
I hope you’re being sarcastic, Tundra.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:16 amRoger_Roger,
December 28th, 2006 at 11:17 amCould you provide a full list of people that won’t be attending the funeral? I would like to decry everyone that does not attend. Thanks.
Maybe he was worried he might have to be called back to office to pardon Darth Cheney and his sockpuppet Dubya beofe he died.
Comment by upside00
He’d be the man for the job, apparently.
Ya really gotta watch the quiet ones, don’t ya?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:18 amMan the Dems know how to really piss the mass’ off.
Comment by Roger_Roger — December 28, 2006 @ 11:14 am
Which is why they voted them INTO the majority position in both the Senate and House in November?
Roger – go learn some logic and then get back to us….
December 28th, 2006 at 11:18 am#8 – Nice one, Larry from C
December 28th, 2006 at 11:19 amGerald Ford was NOT ultra vocal about his opposition to the Iraq war, because I never heard about it till after he died, but perhaps the corporate warmongering press did not want us Americans to know that Ford opposed the war?!
December 28th, 2006 at 11:19 amI agree with hit_escape. I’m tired of all of the hype about Ford having “helped heal the nation …”. His pardon of Nixon prevented a full airing of Nixon’s crimes and prevented justice. This is all in service of the facile notion that impeachment will “tear the country apart”. What impeachment will do is re-establish the rule of law and help prevent subsequent abuses. Furthermore, it wasn’t the impeachment that was tearing the country apart, it was the crimes of the president and his suppression of criticisms of a futile and unpopular war.
This action again shows that Ford put the Republican party’s needs ahead of those of the country.
President Ford was a kindly, grandfatherly figure, and I’m sorry he’s dead, but as both a president and an ex-president, he’s hardly an exemplar.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:21 amUh, slight problem with that logic – he’s dead…
Comment by unbelievable — December 28, 2006 @ 11:11 am
Does not want stuff released so people buy book. Does not care after he dies, because he can’t spend the money from the grave.
I realize the logic is difficult for you, but sometimes those with such high IQ’s miss those simple things :)
December 28th, 2006 at 11:21 amVery good points about him waiting until his death. Sad but true. That is a cowards way out. I hope it won’t get covered over though.
Roger Roger, are you more pissed off about Harry Reid than you are a former president dissing your boy’s actions in Iraq? Are you attending?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:24 amHis family could spend the money. I would think it was more he was a party loyalist, then anything else.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:26 amDoes not want stuff released so people buy book.
But he gets nothing out of it…
Does not care after he dies, because he can’t spend the money from the grave.
This actually is why your argument was not logical.
I realize the logic is difficult for you, but sometimes those with such high IQ’s miss those simple things :)
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 11:21 am
Well, at least you admit I’m smart :)
Oh, logic is just common sense. Something you Righties never let stand in your way of saying something just for the sake of saying something… Come on – you used to have a functioning sense of humor… Did the Libertarians make you give it up? :D
December 28th, 2006 at 11:29 amOnly Bush,Jr. and Cheney will go for this war, thinking the whole world will adopt to the NeoCons new ideologies that you need tanks,bombers to start a war so you can bring peace…
December 28th, 2006 at 11:29 amI see that the article was written by Bob Woodward.
Hmmmmm, I wonder who had the book deal with Ford…?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:30 amHis family could spend the money.
Nah with Estate Taxes it wouldn’t be worth considering.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:31 am#26… You are right on point! Ford covered for the party and never said one thing in public that might conflict with the cheney/rove/bush policy or decisions. It is now obvious that he felt it was more important to protect the party then the country. I’m sure the 3,000 dead American soldiers and their families appreciate his restraint.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:34 amNah with Estate Taxes it wouldn’t be worth considering.
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 11:31 am
Well how much was Mr. Ford worth? Under 2 million, and it won’t matter, besides, his wife is still alive, so the estate tax won’t take effect until her death.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:34 amGerald Ford was 91 years old when he gave the Woodward interview. At that point in life he has the absolute right not to be involved in politics. Even if he had gone public with his opposition to the War in Iraq, he just would have been called a senile old man by the Bush enabling press.
I did not vote for Ford in 1976, but I believe he did the country a real service. He was a decent man who unexpectedly found himself in the Oval Office. While I did not think so at the time, I believe history has shown him to be right in pardoning Nixon. In 1974 the country was obssessed with Watergate. It was time to get back to business.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:34 amhis wife is still alive, so the estate tax won’t take effect until her death.
Comment by Krazny — December 28, 2006 @ 11:34 am
Don’t confuse Tundra with those silly facts… :D
December 28th, 2006 at 11:37 am27,
Ok Ford gives memoirs for future book, does not want information released so as people buy book. (Logical in itself?)
If book sells well, he stands to gain alot of money (Logical in itself?)
If he dies he cannot spend the money (Logical in itself?)
If he dies he says “Screw the publisher, give the knowledge away” (Logical in itself)
Sense of humor? How could anyone look at my posts on this topic and not laugh?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:37 amSense of humor? How could anyone look at my posts on this topic and not laugh?
Comment by Tundra
I know I’m laughing….
December 28th, 2006 at 11:39 amRemember that “long national nightmare” that Ford told us was over? It wasn’t some bi-partisan national nightmare. It was a power-grabbing Republican national nightmare that dragged the nation to the brink.
They have lived to do the exact same thing again under Bush. Soon we will be hearing the calls to “heal the nation” and put partisanship aside.
Boy, these assclowns are predicatble if nothing.
-GSD
December 28th, 2006 at 11:39 amOk Ford gives memoirs for future book, does not want information released so as people buy book. (Logical in itself?)
Why would someone eho is dead care about book sales? He won’t get money or fame from it… In fact, he won’t be around to defend against the critics – ot for that matter to do the talk show circuit to promote it.
Not logical.
If book sells well, he stands to gain alot of money (Logical in itself?)
But he is dead – he can’t spend it. It does him no good. Therefore saving it until he dies is not logical…
If he dies he cannot spend the money (Logical in itself?)
This is an argument against your initial post. Aren’t you supposed to be defending it?
If he dies he says “Screw the publisher, give the knowledge away†(Logical in itself)
Screw the publisher? That’s not logical either. Who goes around wanting to screw publishers in this manner?
Sense of humor? How could anyone look at my posts on this topic and not laugh?
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 11:37 am
Maybe at you… :D
December 28th, 2006 at 11:41 am#33,
You are viewing this from its most simplistic approach and buying into the excuse that has been put into history books, but is not history.
Consider the logic for the moment. Ford pardoned Nixon so as to protect the American people from the unpleasant truths that would have been exposed during Nixon’s criminal trials. Me, I always want the truth, no matter how “inconvenient” or “uncomfortable” it may be to some. The only people that Ford did a favor to were the members of his party and administration that would have been exposed, as well as the subversive political machinery that exists in DC.
You may consider that a “favor”, I consider it a disservice to truth and justice.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:43 amVery strange how the mainline press tries to whitwash things after a former president passes away. Gerald Ford was a caretaker president, whose job was to fill in the office after Nixon was forced to resign, then in 1976 the voters rejected him to elect Jimmy Carter. Ford accomplished basically nothing as president, and covered up Nixon’s crimes by pardoning him, so historians will not be kind to Gerald Ford.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:44 amComment by Peter — December 28, 2006 @ 11:21 am
We got more of the same in an editorial in today’s local paper. One comment that stuck out was that “history has proven that pardoning Nixon was the right thing to do.”
I don’t see how folks can make that claim considering it seems to be widely accepted that Ford’s action cost him the election in 1976. Thus it doesn’t seem that great of a leap in logic to conclude the nation would have survived putting Nixon on trial and would have welcomed it.
Besides…we’ll never know what the alternate history would have been since we didn’t go down that path.
And consider that 30 years later we have a runaway administration whose attempts at obtaining unlimited power put Nixon to shame. Had Nixon been put on trial and justice been served, it likely would have sent a message to future administrations.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:44 amI believe history has shown him to be right in pardoning Nixon.
I agree with that. Many Prominent Democrats and Republicans hold that view as well. Looking back it was the right choice.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:46 amConsider, that Ford lost to Carter, most likely because of his pardon of Nixon, and the gaff at the debate, where he stated eastern europe wasn’t under the control of communist russia.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:46 am“history has shown him to be right in pardoning Nixon”????
W has taken off from Nixon’s unprosecuted starting point and committed abuse after abuse. If Nixon had been prosecuted and punished, W may not have gone as far as he has.
I agree Ford was a decent man who had an absolute right to be removed from politics, but I don’t think it would have been a bad thing for the MSM to have attacked him as senile. That would have been another obvious example of a subserviant corporate press carrying water for a corrupt and morally bankrupt administration. With every subsequent example, a few more people wake up to the sorry state of political discourse in the MSM these days.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:47 am#2
Flags are at half-mast in honor of ex-President Ford. When DUHbya’s demise and/or impeachment occurs I intend to raise my flagpole by half and fly the American flag as high as I can.
Ford may have played center for the Michigan football team but he was at the end of the line as President until DUHbya was crowned.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:47 am#41 WC, I agree with this post 100%. By NOT going through with the trials and public disclosures of what Nixon did, it left the door open for future presidents to duplicate those actions. I’ll bet Nixon is green with envy right about now (if not from mold.)
December 28th, 2006 at 11:50 amWC > yes you are correct! Ford’s pardoning of Nixon allowed the hidden corruption in DC to continue and now has exploded with Bush in the White House. The failure to prosecute Nixon, and put him in prison, has caused the severe problems in DC today. Nixon going to prison would have prevented the Bush Regime from ever existing.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:51 amWhile I did not think so at the time, I believe history has shown him to be right in pardoning Nixon. In 1974 the country was obssessed with Watergate. It was time to get back to business.
Comment by Jeffrey Kohan — December 28, 2006 @ 11:34 am
No, Jeffrey, I think you were right at the time. I believe that while, yes, the country was obsessed with Watergate, the country also needed to see a President made responsible for and accept the consequences of his criminal actions. I believe that this was necessary not just for the country at that time, but for future generations, so that Americans will always remember that even the President is subject to the law. I do not believe that ‘justice served’ would have ‘torn the country apart’, as so many claim.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:52 amYou may consider that a “favorâ€, I consider it a disservice to truth and justice.
Comment by Tuber — December 28, 2006 @ 11:43 am
And it sent a message to the Republican Politicians that as long as you were wearing expensive designer suits and sporting an Ivy League degree that your Daddy’s money bought you – you were a welcomed criminal in their party. After all – look what they’ve become since he left office.
And before the neocons start. I think it’s been generations since we last had a great President – from either party.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:53 amThe interview “took place for a future book project, though he said his comments could be published at any time after his death.â€
Why would someone eho is dead care about book sales?
Ok this is a toughie for ya. He wasn’t dead when he gave the interview. I know details, details. He also wasn’t dead when he had them agree that they would not release it until a future book deal OR his death (Because dead people don’t care about book sales)
You are scarring me. Yes it was meant as a joke, but the logic is sound.
Do interview so someone else writes book.
Wait out book writting and make deal that it everything has to be hush hush till book is done.
Cash in big money for book deal when complete.
But if I die between the interview and time book is completed, to hell with it, spill your guts (Because I can’t cash in because I am dead)
December 28th, 2006 at 11:54 amOk Ford gives memoirs for future book, does not want information released so as people buy book. (Logical in itself?)
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 11:37 am
But Ford said it was OK to release the info in the book, or upon his death.
If he said it was OK to release upon death, he surely knew he may die before the book was published. So why would he be worried about it affecting book sales?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:56 amSo, now that the information is out there is no reason to buy the book. Very logical.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:58 amJeez the body hasn’t even become cold yet and we’re gonna argue over what he said.
What would Yoda say about the Iraq war?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:59 amYup, more party loyalty than loyalty to the American soldier. Typical politician.
If he actually had the stones to come out in July 2004 publicly, maybe things would’ve been different. That would’ve been just a few months before his Republicans were up for re-election, so there was no way he’d do it.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:59 amSo, now that the information is out there is no reason to buy the book.
And because he is dead he doesn’t care if people do or not. Had he been alive and the book went to the top of the Best Seller lists, he would have made good money.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:01 pm#48 “I believe that while, yes, the country was obsessed with Watergate, the country also needed to see a President made responsible for and accept the consequences of his criminal actions. I believe that this was necessary not just for the country at that time, but for future generations, so that Americans will always remember that even the President is subject to the law.”
This was a great post. Thank you. If Nixon had been held responsible for his criminal actions, there may never have been a Ronald Reagan or a George Bush, which means that a republican might never have been elected again. Perhaps this is why Ford pardoned Nixon.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:03 pmYou “heal” a nation with truth and reconciliation, not with whitewash and the sealing of books and records. The whole of Washington feared a thorough investigation of Nixon’s crimes because of the vast number of politicians who would have been exposed as spineless or complicit. With the pardon, a whole host of characters could stay in the shadows to re-emerge as “elderly statesmen”. We suffer under them now, when they should have only lived on in infamy.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:03 pmAnother republican working in a darkness of secrecy? He might have known the truth but just couldn’t come to spit it out. That doesn’t say much for him except that the Party comes before the country. Very disappointing.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:06 pmThe World: wrong
The genius that is Bush Jr and his followers: always divinely right
When everyone in the world is crazy except you… who is the crazy one?
December 28th, 2006 at 12:09 pmWhat was the title for the book going to be anyway? I have some thoughts:
1. Pardon me
2. Nothing to see here, move along
3. Being President for Dummies
Any other ideas?
December 28th, 2006 at 12:10 pmPeter, #57, you’re so right! Look at how many of the players back then are still playing the same game now, only even more evil.
#56, Faux News, thanks!
December 28th, 2006 at 12:14 pmLooking back it was the right choice.
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 11:46 am
Perhaps for you – as there might not be a Libertarian Party had the Republicans actually punished their own law breaker.
Otherwise, I think it’s a component in why we are in such a bad state today. It sent the wrong message.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:14 pmThis, from a different thread regarding Bush’s War in Iraq:
Comment by robert — December 28, 2006 @ 11:18 am
Which “original” reason was that, robert? Maybe it wasn’t the same original reason cited by President Ford.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:21 pmOtherwise, I think it’s a component in why we are in such a bad state today. It sent the wrong message.
Comment by unbelievable — December 28, 2006 @ 12:14 pm
I just agree with Jimmy Carter, I think he has wisdom that many can’t imagine. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is the wrong one :P
December 28th, 2006 at 12:24 pmIf you don’t use punishment even primary school children would give you run for your money, forget terrorists.
http://www.tekno-world.blogspot.com
December 28th, 2006 at 12:25 pm“When the country needed healing, reconciliation and restoration of confidence, Gerald Ford provided it.” – Bob Woodward.
If Woodward’s statement had the least bit of truth to it, then why didn’t Gerald Ford win the presidency in 1976 in a landslide???
If Gerald Ford healed, reconciled, and restored confidence then why did people show their gratitude by voting for Carter???
Looks like Woodward is trying to build a legacy built on false information, as usual.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:28 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider — December 28, 2006 @ 11:50 am
Thanks…and it’s good to see you and Jane posting today!
One other thing to consider that I think bolsters the argument that the country would have survived a trial unscathed: the fact that Nixon resigned is pretty much an admission of guilt. Given this, I think you would have been hard-pressed to find any citizen on the street who would have defended Nixon. Oh sure, there would have been some folks, but their percentage would have been very small.
True, this country went through some bad times with the Vietnam War and the Watergate scandal, but to claim that it couldn’t survive a trial of a president — all three events in the same decade — isn’t saying much about our strength as a nation and our will to survive.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:29 pmWe will likely never know how this played out behind the scenes, with Nixon resigning followed by Ford’s pardon. But this is important to note:
“[The President] shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.” U.S. Constitution, Article 2, Section 2.
Had the full House voted for Impeachment, Ford could not have pardoned Nixon. Was that, then, the ultimate cover-up?
December 28th, 2006 at 12:31 pmI just agree with Jimmy Carter, I think he has wisdom that many can’t imagine. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is the wrong one :P
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 12:24 pm
Of course Jimmy agrees that pardoning Nixon was the right thing to do. It delivered the election for him, after all.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:34 pmAnd because he is dead he doesn’t care if people do or not.
He wouldn’t have allowed an interview to begin with if he didn’t care. Besides,it’s not like he wrote it or that it was about him. If people don’t read it – it’s not a reflection on him or what he said. This is hardly justification for his silence.
Had he been alive and the book went to the top of the Best Seller lists, he would have made good money.
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 12:01 pm
Depends on how much of the royalties go to the interviewee… Most likely he was just paid a fee. Though if he did get a cut – it probably wouldn’t have made him any more of a millionaire than he already was…
December 28th, 2006 at 12:34 pm“When the country needed healing, reconciliation and restoration of confidence, Gerald Ford provided it.†– Bob Woodward.
Comment by Republicans are the fear and smear party — December 28, 2006 @ 12:28 pm
Funny…up until Ford’s death, I could have sworn it was Ronald Reagan that provided those things. All I’ve heard for the last 26 years has been how Reagan healed the nation after a decade that gave us the Vietnam War, Watergate, and the resignation of a president.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:37 pmHi, WC, it’s good to be here, it’s a slow day at work (at least for me!) I’m glad to see that you feel the same way we do. Ford definitely did NOT do our country any good by pardoning Nixon. Our country would have been the stronger for exercising the rule of law.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:39 pm#68 Briseadh,
Excellent point! It was only the House Judiciary Committee that recommended (or was about to) Articles of Impeachment to the full House, is that correct? So if the vote went forward and the vote for impeachment passed, Ford’s pardon would have been an unconstitutional option.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:39 pmIn 2001, President Ford was the recipent of John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award at a ceremony at the John F. Kennedy Library and Museum on Columbia Point in Boston. In awarding President Ford the honor, Carline Kennedy said, †“As President, he made a controversial decision of conscience to pardon former president Nixon and end the national trauma of Watergate. In doing so, he placed his love of country ahead of his own political future.â€
Sen. Edward Kennedy, who bitterly denounced the pardon of Richard Nixon, also praised Mr. Ford in 2001, recanting his earlier harsh waords. Sen. Kennedy said that Mr. Ford, by that pardon, had proved that “politics can be a noble profession … I was one of those who spoke out against his action then. But time has a way of clarifying past events, and now we see that President Ford was right. His courage and dedication to our country made it possible for us to begin the process of healing and put the tragedy of Watergate behind us.â€
The Kennedys were correct in 2001. We Americans owe a debt of gratitude to Gerald Ford.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:41 pmYou are scarring me. Yes it was meant as a joke, but the logic is sound.
Not really… but whatever. You seem to keep missing that you’re trying to justify opposing actions…
(Because I can’t cash in because I am dead)
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 11:54 am
That was my point. Anyway… Next…
December 28th, 2006 at 12:47 pm#71…Funny how it’s always republicans who healed the nation. Nice that we have two options. If you don’t like Ford you can choose Reagan. Or if you’re a real party-liner, you can choose both!
December 28th, 2006 at 12:50 pm#71…Funny how it’s always republicans who healed the nation. Nice that we have two options. If you don’t like Ford you can choose Reagan. Or if you’re a real party-liner, you can choose both!
December 28th, 2006 at 12:50 pmHey Wayne, I was just over at your site. I got a kick out of the Edgar Allen Poe paradoy of Once Upon a Midnight.
http://www.pickwaynesbrain.blogspot.com/
Thanks for a holiday lift, my friend.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:50 pmHey, Exley, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Go JETS!
But I have to disagree with you (and, apparently, Teddy Kennedy.) See my earlier posts.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:54 pm#73, Wayne, ….Even if the House had voted for Articles of Impeachment, Nixon still would have been President. Thus, Ford would not have been able to pardon him. It is only upon a trial and conviction in the Senate that Nixon would have been removed from ofice and Ford become president. However, even after conviction in the Senate (in which the only penalty is removal from office), President Ford could still have pardoned Nixon for all crimes commited while in office and thus precluded the possibility of criminal prosecution in the court system.
December 28th, 2006 at 12:56 pm#79 Hey Jane! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and Wayne too! BIG game on Sunday! Hopefully we will have TWO reasons to celebrate on New Year’s Eve….2007 and the Jets in the playoffs!
(p.s. Did you see that Barry Zito sugned with the San Francisco Giants? The Mets have SERIOUS pitching problems!)
December 28th, 2006 at 12:58 pmIf you don’t use punishment even primary school children would give you run for your money, forget terrorists.
Comment by Rajeev Vashisht — December 28, 2006 @ 12:25 pm
I know it seems like semantics, but – being a school teacher myself, I prefer to use the word ‘consequences’. As in – there are negative consequences for negative actions. It’s then less about revenge (which I don’t support because it is based in anger) and more about justice (which I do because it is based in preventing people from making negative choices in teh first place.).
December 28th, 2006 at 12:59 pmThe Bush dictatorship exists now, because Ford pardoned Nixon! The corruption in Washington has exploded, because members of Congress preferred a coverup of Nixon’s crimes! Now impeachment has become a sick joke, because it was used falsely to try to remove a president for lying about getting BJs! Bush and Cheney must both be removed from power, but how can it be done with the Congress filled with cowards and complete idiots?
December 28th, 2006 at 12:59 pmPresident Ford could still have pardoned Nixon for all crimes commited while in office and thus precluded the possibility of criminal prosecution in the court system.
Comment by Exley
How can a person be pardoned for crimes they were not convicted of? Aren’t the pardoning powers of the President only able to be used on convicted criminals not “might be” defendants? How can a person be pardoned of a crime when they were not convicted of such crime? Not attacking you but that doesn’t seem right to me.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:00 pmFord sort of respected the tradition of former presidents not second-guessing a sitting president while in office (should have said not to publish until Bush was out of office).
At least he showed a little class and restraint — something that cannot be said about our two biggest narcissists: Clinton and Carter. Those guys combined don’t have the class and dignity of Gerald Ford. Carter in particular should be swept to the dustbin of history for not only being obnoxious but also completely wrong about everything he takes a stand on.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:03 pmIf Gerald Ford healed, reconciled, and restored confidence then why did people show their gratitude by voting for Carter???
Comment by Republicans are the fear and smear party — December 28, 2006 @ 12:28 pm
Exactly!
December 28th, 2006 at 1:05 pmYeah Iraq sucks. We should’ve never attacked Iraq. They could’ve been an ally against the real threat. The Religious Nazis of Iran. We should withdraw from Iraq by marching across Iran and leave that nation a deset and 2/3 of their population dead.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:10 pmDeath to Iran!
If Gerald Ford healed, reconciled, and restored confidence then why did people show their gratitude by voting for Carter???
Because Ford was not as articulate as Carter. People often mistake loquaciousness for ability when choosing who to vote for. That’s why Clinton was elected twice and why the Dems should have beaten GW twice — and they would have if they didn’t pick the two biggest dorks on the planet.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:11 pmIt’s then less about revenge (which I don’t support because it is based in anger) and more about justice (which I do because it is based in preventing people from making negative choices in teh first place.).
Comment by unbelievable
Great post.
On topic, my opinion about the death of Gerald Ford is the same I could have about any human being. What I think is that we have this idea that people in power, presidents, quaterbacks (so Ex get the idea), generals, etc have some superpowers that we, the common people, do not have. We have people talking about virtues like leadership, power of command, success, clarity and therefore, cuz we dont own those values, thats why they are in higher positions than us. Give it a thought and it is really not different from a feudalist society: A divine enlightened man/woman and the ignorant, unable and admiring mass. Thats why we idolize movie stars, rock stars, sport stars and politicians. Because we dont value ourselves enough, which is not the same as having a huge ego.
About Gerald Ford, if he did a good to society, then he should be remembered for that. But for all of you that mourn his death as if you were intimate friends, 30,000+ kids die everyday. Not a word of that.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:11 pmJoe Sixpack,
Thank you veyr much. Poe’s “The Raven” (which begins “Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary…”) has always been one of my favorite poems. I was looking for the right subject to use it for a parody. I appreciate the kind words and free plug. Enjoy your holidays. :-)
December 28th, 2006 at 1:11 pmCynicon Implant,
#85,
I think you are totally missing the point here. President Ford agrees with “the two biggest narcissists: Clinton and Carter” that Bush made a huge mistake and lied to get into a war. So if you wqant to bash Clinton and Carter you better start whipping up on Ford to. In my opinion Ford didn’t have the balls or fortitude of Clinton and Carter because he kept silent on an issue he disagreed with and thought was bad for America. After all isn’t that what the government is supposed to do….make America better. Not the Republican Party, not only the rich, not the Democratic Party, not the corporations, not only the poor, not only friends that agree with you but the whole country.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:13 pmDlet, The pardon power does not require conviction. A president may issue a pardon for any crimes that may have been committed. Presidents of both parties have issued such pre-conviction pardons.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:14 pm22 Jay thats right thats one reason to release info after his death so he would not be ridiculed by the Bush admin
But theres another reason and its not about Book sales :: I think ::
The answer is Ford is trying to warn the America people about the Bush Cabal , He knows Bush is going down the road to more wars by ignoring Diplomacy with Iran etc
Sometimes people can be greater in death than Alive and this is his message to the American people Take Heed ???
December 28th, 2006 at 1:18 pmClinton and Carter. Those guys combined don’t have the class and dignity of Gerald Ford.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Yeah, Ford is going to go down in history as one of one of our most beloved and classiest Presidents, huh, pal? I mean, not counting the pardon for Nixon and being Nixon’s lap dog, how about all those wonderful accomplishments he made while he was president? You know, like, uh, er….ah….
Still, why don’t you show some class of your own, Brain Implant, and at least wait until his body is cold and in the ground before you use it to attack Clinton and Carter, huh, dipstick?
December 28th, 2006 at 1:18 pmHmmm…lets expand on Exley’s point and assume Nixon had been impeached but not removed from office. Had Ford pardoned him for crimes committed, which obviously were the reason for the impeachment, wouldn’t that have nullified the impeachment itself? Wouldn’t this create a paradox? How would Article 2, Section 2 of the Constitution been affected?
December 28th, 2006 at 1:19 pmExley,
Happy Holidays to you and I stand corrected. I had not thought that out thoroughly. Your reasoning sounds correct. Until he was removed by the Senate he would still have been president, and nothing Ford could have done as Vice President would have stopped that (unless the Senate vote resulted in a tie. Does the Vice President break ties on impeachment votes? I don’t have that part of the Constitution memorized yet.) If he could, that might have been an interesting spin on the whole story. I have no recollection of the party makeup of the Senate back then, or even of the ideologies of the Senators (were there enough authoritarian types to vote no for removal to prevent it from happening?)
A win and the Jets are in! And if Barry Zito wants to be associated with Barry Bonds, that’s his problem. But this is not the time or place to discuss sports (as we have both been warned before.) Enjoy the game this weekend and do have a safe and happy holiday celebration. Happy New Year!
December 28th, 2006 at 1:19 pmExley,
December 28th, 2006 at 1:21 pmI have been looking for something like that but what I have read says nothing of the sort about pre-conviction pardoning. Everything I see is about after conviction. If you have some info please link.
In my opinion Ford didn’t have the balls or fortitude of Clinton and Carter because he kept silent on an issue he disagreed with and thought was bad for America.
Comment by dlet
dlet, I get your point but in my opinion it’s not about having balls or fortitude — it doesn’t take either of those to criticize someone. All it takes is an overwhelming desire to get attention and try to make yourself look better.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:21 pmExley got it. Saw something about pre-conviction pardoning.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:22 pmJuan C,30,000+ “kids die everyday.”
December 28th, 2006 at 1:22 pmWho cares. No one gives a crap. Take care of yourself!
You stupid geek loser!
Hey Joe Sixpack,
did you even read what I wrote? or are you down to a one-pack now?
December 28th, 2006 at 1:23 pmThat’s treading on new ground. Had Nixon been impeached, then resigned before the trial, could Ford have pardoned him prior to trial, or would the House impeachment vote have sufficed to preclude a pardon. My inclinations go towards the later, but a split decision by the Supreme Court, even then, is not out of the realm of possibility.
Exley,
#80. Wrong again. As usual.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:25 pmYou stupid geek loser!
December 28th, 2006 at 1:26 pmComment by Puff Daddy
Those kind of words come from kids who get picked in high school by football players. Im sorry.
All it takes is an overwhelming desire to get attention and try to make yourself look better.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
So you would disagree with President Ford writing his book and saying that he disagrees with Bush. After all writing a book draws a lot of attention to yourself and tries to make you look better. Carter and Clinton did it after their presidency. Reagan didn’t write one himself because I think he was incapacitated since the mid-second term and probaly couldn’t think straight but he could still run the country.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:27 pmWayne….Good question about a tie Senate vote for impeachment. I am not sure how that would work. My “gut” tells me a tie vote would be a non-conviction. Since the Chief Justice of the United States presides over the Senate trial, I believe the Vice President would have no role in a Senate trial.
LET’S GO JETS! And yes, I agree with you about Zito…If he didn’t want us, I don’t want him!
HAPPY 2007 Wayne and Jane.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:28 pmThe average person can’t name a single thing Ford did. He was default President after Watergate. So what?
December 28th, 2006 at 1:30 pmHypothetically speaking, if a President during the Cold War gave the Soviets some highly classified material he might be all right. Congress could vote to impeach him and if it passed then they could vote to remove him. If that paseed then he would no longer be President. Then the next President could pardon him of all charges before he even goes to trial for those crimes. Sad and wrong.
I understand the reason why these powers were put in the Constitution but they seem a little to open for a law abiding society.
The presidential power of pardons and commutations was controversial from the outset; many Anti-Federalists remembered examples of royal abuses of the pardon power in Europe, and warned that the same would happen in the new republic.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:33 pmActually, BnF, you are quite incorrect…again. If Nixon had been impeached by the House and then resigned before the Senate trial, there would have been no Senate trial. The only punishment following conviction in the Senate is removal from office. If Nixon had resigned before the Senate trial, the Senate would no longer have jurisdiction over him. Any post-resignation adjudication of Nixon’s alleged crimes would have had to take place in the court system.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:33 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider — December 28, 2006 @ 1:19 pm
Article 1, Section 3:
The Senate shall have the sole power to try all Impeachments. …When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present.
A tie vote is not possible.
But because the Constitution separates the Impeachment from the trial, it seems likely that a post impeachment, but pre-trial resignation would preclude a pardon.
I would have to research the case law on pre-conviction pardons. All I can note at this time is that to my knowledge, Ford’s pardon was not challenged by any federal prosecutor.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:35 pmSo you would disagree with President Ford writing his book and saying that he disagrees with Bush.
comment by dlet
Yes — while Bush is still in office
Exley, I’m sorry but the Jets suck. They better hope they don’t get the Pats in the first round (if they make it).
December 28th, 2006 at 1:35 pm105 Gerald Ford said that he though that going to war in Iraq was stupid. plain and simple.
He also slagged Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney in one clip have you seen the 3 clips he left
Its simply a warning about Bush, something he could not do while alive, Ford wants the american people to know , Its a big warning he has forsight into an even bigger mess
December 28th, 2006 at 1:37 pm109 – and you studied Constitutional Law for how long? You took the Bar in which state?
December 28th, 2006 at 1:38 pmArt I, Sec 3, Clause 4: The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
It sounds from this like it is possible that Ford could have been asked to break the tie should there have been a trial in the Senate and the vote ended in a tie. It doesn’t have the caveat “except in cases of impeachment” that appears elsewhere.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:39 pmFDA OKs food from cloned animals
So now we can have Cloned animals eating genetically modified grains mixed with crushed up unused reamins of other cloned animals. Who wants to start a poll on the first born mutant? And I’m not talking the X-Men kind.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:40 pmFords statement should be a kick in the teeth for Bush, Nothing more nothing less ,, the rest is spin
December 28th, 2006 at 1:41 pmI am very confused over this whole discussion — is Ford a douchebag for pardoning Nixon or a hero for dissing Bush? Or maybe both, making him a bad president who somehow became a wonderful ex-president. Kind of like Carter — oh wait, Carter is still a douchebag…
December 28th, 2006 at 1:41 pmdid you even read what I wrote? or are you down to a one-pack now?
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Yes I did and I can agree with some of it. yes, Carter was a weak leader. But just because you have a bias against Clinton and Carter does not give you a pass on this. You talk about Ford like he is some kind of wonderful republican icon with all that crap about class and dignity. Carter has that. It didn’t make him much of a leader.
My point is this: Clinton will go down in history as one of our most effective and able presidents, regardless of the Lewinski affair. While Ford will join the ranks of other dignified and classy presidents, like James Buchanan, John Tyler, and Franklin Pierce. Or as GWB would say, a “comma” in history.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:42 pmBriseadh,
Once again, I am wrong. I just don’t seem to have my thinking cap on today. Of course the “tie” question is mute, since a tie would have meant no conviction! Boy am I being stupid today. I better stop now and stay out of this conversation before I lose what little credibility on the subject I gained yesterday. (I know. Too late!)
Thanks for setting me straight. Seriously. I need to know this stuff, and I appreciate being corrected as needed. I’ll let you decide how to handle the other person in this dialog. :-)
December 28th, 2006 at 1:42 pmCarter in particular should be swept to the dustbin of history for not only being obnoxious but also completely wrong about everything he takes a stand on.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — December 28, 2006 @ 1:03 pm
Let’s see… Carter – Noble Peace Prize? Yes.. Ford? Hmmm… Nope.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:43 pmThere is NO such thing as a tie vote in the Senate for impeachment of a president. It takes 2/3 of the Senate to remove a president, so that means 67 votes for conviction! 50-50 tie means nothing!
December 28th, 2006 at 1:45 pmAbout Gerald Ford, if he did a good to society, then he should be remembered for that. But for all of you that mourn his death as if you were intimate friends, 30,000+ kids die everyday. Not a word of that.
Comment by Juan C
Well said.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:46 pm#121….Yikes. Good point, Jay….Wayne and I are really not being sharp today at all….Must be all the holiday merry-making.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:49 pmCarter in particular should be swept to the dustbin of history for not only being obnoxious but also completely wrong about everything he takes a stand on.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — December 28, 2006 @ 1:03 pm
They say that opinions are like a certain part of the body. Everybody has one.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:50 pm115 FDA OKs food from cloned animals
So now we can have Cloned animals eating genetically modified grains mixed with crushed up unused reamins of other cloned animals. Who wants to start a poll on the first born mutant? And I’m not talking the X-Men kind.
Simply dont eat this meat then , Thats how mad cow (BSE) disease came about, also how sheep get scrapie
Cows eat grass or hay NOT haggis
Sheep eat grass and hay NOT McD_nalds Burgers made of Cows feet and toenails
the one to watch out for is genetically modified terminator technology ,,
December 28th, 2006 at 1:51 pmResults of Post #120:
Cynicon Implant: 0
unbelievable: 1
December 28th, 2006 at 1:51 pmGreat post.
Thanks :)
What I think is that we have this idea that people in power, presidents, quaterbacks (so Ex get the idea), generals, etc have some superpowers that we, the common people, do not have.
Comment by Juan C — December 28, 2006 @ 1:11 pm
Excellent post yourself!
December 28th, 2006 at 1:52 pmFrom the Federalist Papers:
This again strengthens the argument that once Impeached, no pardon could issue, even if the person impeached resigned from office.
Wayne, your questions were good ones. Constitutional Law is a year-long course. And most of the other classes dealt heavily with Supreme Court decisions – hence, Constitutional Law. Much of how the Senate operates is changed when it sits in an impeachment trial. When you start to see how the pieces fit together, you gain a great deal of respect for the collective wisdom of the drafters of that document.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:53 pmPresidents of both parties have issued such pre-conviction pardons.
Comment by Exley — December 28, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
If it’s such a great thing to do – then why hasn’t your boy king used it on Scooter? Fear of backlash for pardoning criminals just because they are your political friends?
December 28th, 2006 at 1:54 pmMust be all the holiday merry-making.
Comment by Exley
Yeah after that giant chocalate bar, doughnuts, cake, pie, eggnog, soda, chips, and dip, I can’t make sense out of anything.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:57 pm#14, roger
Reid and several Dems AND Repugs are going to be out of the country on a long-planned trip to shore up badly tattered relations.
I seem to recall Bush failing to attend a state funeral and he didn’t have a plausible excuse.
December 28th, 2006 at 1:57 pmWho cares. No one gives a crap. Take care of yourself!
You stupid geek loser!
Comment by Puff Daddy — December 28, 2006 @ 1:22 pm
Plenty of people care about him. That’s what upsets you enough to insult him… the fact that no one actually cares about YOU.
Now shoo…
December 28th, 2006 at 1:57 pmNo problem Exley > in the House of Representatives a simple majority can win by one vote in impeaching a president, so a tie vote can happen there. Founding fathers set the bar very high for convicting and removing a president hence 2/3 or 67 Senators needed to vote for impeachment. Only serious crimes like Nixon’s are intended to lead to impeachment of a president!
December 28th, 2006 at 1:58 pmSimply dont eat this meat then
Comment by Corpus Mentis Teuchter
That’s fine for me. But get out of the “only me” box and its a bigger problem than that. We are talking about the government allowing this to get to the people of this country. Plus how do you choose to not eat this type of meat if the label doesn’t say what it is? Again, think about others…like ones that don’t have access to organic farms, etc.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:01 pmWell, here we are again….I stated the other day I hoped they would not do like they did with regan and go on for day’s with pomp and ceramony used for pope’s and king’s and ofcourse they are doing just that….Ford was in office 28 month’s and I am sure loved by friends and relatives, not so much by the enlightened public….He did not do anything great after his presidency, except golf if my memory serves me…..I am on burn out to all this.
Seem’s to me James Brown left a better legacy with his music and non violance stance even though he served some prison time. When are the reich going to stop with their piety and pure dogma beyond belief about ordinary people…By the time this administration is done flying ford all over the country and having the media blitz us with the couple of thing’s he did and should not have, me and most of the public will be worn out……Most of these people expounding their tributes only want their own 15 minutes of coverage anyway…Blessings to ford and his family, enough already.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:04 pmWho wants to start a poll on the first born mutant? And I’m not talking the X-Men kind.
Comment by dlet — December 28, 2006 @ 1:40 pm
Morlocks and Eloi?
We’re silly to think that we are done evolving… Unfortunately, we’re screwing up the system so much that our next step is far more likely to be Cannibalistic mutants than something less viral.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:06 pmThey say that opinions are like a certain part of the body. Everybody has one.
Comment by WC — December 28, 2006 @ 1:50 pm
And some keep their cleaner than others… So that they stink less.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:09 pmUnB. ;)
robert, thanks.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:10 pm#41 said
And consider that 30 years later we have a runaway administration whose attempts at obtaining unlimited power put Nixon to shame. Had Nixon been put on trial and justice been served, it likely would have sent a message to future administrations.
And I say I agree entirely!
BTW I understand that Ford’s comments, had they been expressed two years ago, would have caused an old man much distress. On the other hand, his not expressing his opinion didn’t serve the nation well. I don’t think Ford’s words would have changed anything then, or now, for that matter, but as a former president, no matter how aged, his comments should have been expressed publicly for the sake of the nation.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:10 pmThanks, Briseadh, and you’re right. The more I’ve been learning about just how different our government was to be from every other government attempted in human history, the more I admire them.
Don’t worry. I’m not trying to get a free legal education off of you so I can try to pass the bar. Just trying to learn and make sense of our government and some of the inconsistencies I’ve seen.
Like, if the president and vice president are chosen on separate ballots when the electoral votes are counted, then why are the levers for these two guys tied together in my voting booth? If they have to count their electoral votes separately, then shouldn’t “We the People” get to choose them separately? (In case anyone wants to know why anyone would do that, go back to 1988 and the Bush/Quayle v. Dukakis/Bentsen race. Because Quayle did not impress a lot of people (outside the Bush circle), I believe most people would rather have had Bush over Dukakis but Bentson over Quayle, so you would have had to split your vote to do that. Of course, in order for the tied-lever option to be challenged, someone would have had to have standing, which means that someone would have to have wanted to vote that way and feel denied in order to challenge. That much I believe I understand correctly. There are rare exceptions for being able to challenge something constotutionally with no one yet being affected.)
But you’re not here to give legal advice pro bono.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:12 pmSimply dont eat this meat then
Comment by Corpus Mentis Teuchter
My understanding, is the milk and meat will not be marked in any way to show it came from a cloned cow. It will sit next to the real stuff in the grocery store.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:12 pmYeah after that giant chocalate bar, doughnuts, cake, pie, eggnog, soda, chips, and dip, I can’t make sense out of anything.
Comment by ForTruth — December 28, 2006 @ 1:57 pm
Just reading that list made me nauseous… :)
December 28th, 2006 at 2:17 pmCows eat grass or hay NOT haggis
Sheep eat grass and hay NOT McD_nalds Burgers made of Cows feet and toenails
Ummm, never worked on a farm huh?
December 28th, 2006 at 2:22 pmtry a local butcher with local meat products and get your food standard agency to change its food laws – asap ??
December 28th, 2006 at 2:23 pm#143 Unbelievable, me to……Yikes! Another heart attack anyone, not me thank’s I’ve already had one…Blessings
December 28th, 2006 at 2:24 pmJuan C,
December 28th, 2006 at 2:26 pmIt’s ingrate Americans like you that get beat up. Look at the mass murders you support like Castro, Che, Ayatollah Khomeeni and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. You’re pathtic scum. I say deport scum like you and bring in grateful people.
#141 Wayne, If you are receiving legal advice from BnF pro bono, you are still paying too much! :)
Under the Twelth Amendment, it is the Electors (as in the Electoral College) who cas the ballots separately for president and vice president. Technically,you could have a vice president elected different from the presidential candidate’s running mate. But realistically, that will never happen.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:30 pmYeah after that giant chocalate bar, doughnuts, cake, pie, eggnog, soda, chips, and dip, I can’t make sense out of anything.
Comment by ForTruth — December 28, 2006 @ 1:57 pm
Just reading that list made me nauseous… :)
Comment by unbelievable — December 28, 2006 @ 2:17 pm
Yeesh, just reading that list gives me a sugar headache! Good thing Wayne doesn’t really eat all that crap!
December 28th, 2006 at 2:30 pmnot me thank’s I’ve already had one…Blessings
Comment by Sharon Cox — December 28, 2006 @ 2:24 pm
Ouch! Hope it’s your one and only…
Gotta imagine hugging all those trees is goodfor the heart? :)
December 28th, 2006 at 2:31 pmSoylent Green, anyone?
December 28th, 2006 at 2:32 pmYou’re pathtic scum. I say deport scum like you and bring in grateful people.
Comment by Puff Daddy
Whatever.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:35 pmAnd the electorial college is one more thing that should be eliminated…..Blessings
December 28th, 2006 at 2:35 pmSeem’s to me James Brown left a better legacy with his music and non violance stance
Provided you are not a woman.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:36 pmJames Brown has pleaded no contest to a domestic violence charge, but will serve no jail time. Instead, the 71-year-old singer will forfeit a $1087 bond as punishment for the January incident at the South Carolina home he shared with wife Tomi Rea Brown (Brown was charged with pushing her to the ground during an argument). According to cops, Brown’s wife suffered “scratches and bruises to her right arm and hip” during the bedroom beef.
I’ll have me a rare, prime rib from a cloned mutant steer that died at 18 months of age due to genetic birth defects (think Dolly), with a side of Monsanto genetically-modified, trademarked mashed potatoes and dish me out some of that e-coli laced baby spinach sauteed in trans fats and garlic. Yummy.
I think I’ll just eat veggies grown in my own garden or what comes from my trusted organic food market, thank you very much. I’ll stick to meats from organic farmers or trusted free range sources. Watch the DVD, The Future of Food, from Deborah Koons Garcia for a view of where our food is heading.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:39 pmProvided you are not a woman.
Comment by Tundra
Ha! That was funny.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:40 pm#151…What is Soylent Green again?
December 28th, 2006 at 2:43 pmyou could have a vice president elected different from the presidential candidate’s running mate. But realistically, that will never happen.
Comment by Exley — December 28, 2006 @ 2:30 pm
They used to have the president and vice-president, be the first and second place winners in the electoral college. Can you imagine the heart attacks the replicans would have had if Al Gore had been vice to Bush.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:43 pmBut the powers at be need to feed us genetically modified vote republican foods
December 28th, 2006 at 2:46 pmCynicon: “Carter in particular should be swept to the dustbin of history for not only being obnoxious but also completely wrong about everything he takes a stand on.”
Yes, Carter was so, so wrong about energy independence, wasn’t he. After all, if we had taken Carter’s advice on renewable energy, we wouldn’t be having so much fun in the middle east right now. Thank god Reagan took all those solar cells down. And, of course, we can all see now that Carter was wrong to call the invasion of Iraq a mistake. And that Nobel Peace thing — wrong, wrong wrong.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:47 pmtry a local butcher with local meat products and get your food standard agency to change its food laws – asap ??
Comment by Corpus Mentis Teuchter
Yep that butcher in the Queens gets his beef and ham from that big farm in Brooklyn.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:48 pm#148 Exley,
Yes, I know that. But my point was that when I go into the voting booth, the levers for the Democratic candidates for president and voice president are tied together (same for Republicans), so that if you pull the lever for your presidential pick, your vice presidential pick is auotmatically made for you. Why is that if the electoral votes for them have to be counted separately? It makes absolutely no difference if it is unlikely that a “split” election result could happen. That would be up to the people voting to decide that.
Look at it another way: Suppose I wanted to vote for a candidate for vice president, but I didn’t like ANY of the choices for president and I wanted to leave that vote out. I couldn’t, because the levers are fixed so that I have to choose both or neither. Now, unless and until someone actually wants to do that, the issue of it being constitutionally correct will never be answered because it will never be brought into court. (At least, that’s how I understand it. But as we all know by now, I didn’t go to law school.)
December 28th, 2006 at 2:49 pmWhen you start to see how the pieces fit together, you gain a great deal of respect for the collective wisdom of the drafters of that document.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — December 28, 2006 @ 1:53 pm
Indeed, with all due respect to Pres. Ford, if anyone deserves respect for putting the country before personal gain, it is the founders of our great country. They weren’t looking for short term gains or personal wealth or favoritism. They were looking out for the future of our then young country. We’ll never again see the likes of their intelligence or fortitude.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:54 pmI love you Juan C and Unbelievable..Tree hugging doesn’t do as much good as hanging onto the end of Bear’s leash…A walk (drug) by 125 pound black lab doe’s wonders and requires a nap to recoup….So very sorry I offended you Tundra, not…..I happen to be a R&B fan along with a lot of other music and by the way I don’t judge domestic dispute’s I know nothing about…On the other hand laura bush did a number on her boyfriend many year’s ago and he didn’t live to tell about it, remember.?//……Blessings
December 28th, 2006 at 2:54 pmthats why america needs a proportional representation voting sytem like all of Europe except the UK ( that figures)
That way no need to vote tactically , whoever you vote for being independent or Liberal it actually counts
December 28th, 2006 at 2:56 pmI say deport scum like you and bring in grateful people.
Comment by Puff Daddy — December 28, 2006 @ 2:26 pm
LOL… Juan doesn’t live here silly troll.
But if we’re gonna deport people – it should be haters like you who would be better off in Iraq putting your a$$ where your mouth is.
December 28th, 2006 at 2:57 pmI’ll have me a rare, prime rib from a cloned mutant steer that died at 18 months of age due to genetic birth defects (think Dolly), with a side of Monsanto genetically-modified, trademarked mashed potatoes and dish me out some of that e-coli laced baby spinach sauteed in trans fats and garlic. Yummy.
That’s what I am having for dinner!!! How did you know?
Seriously, I feel that there should be lableing to mark the “cloned” thing from the “real” thing for at lease some time until we know the full effects. But on the bright side, it could also go a long way towards ending hunger IF done correctly.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:00 pmJuan C,
December 28th, 2006 at 3:00 pmha ha ha your Idol Che died at the hand at CIA bullets.
Ha ha ha ha!
They turned that criminal into swiss cheese.
ha ha ha ha!
LOL… Juan doesn’t live here silly troll.
Comment by unbelievable
You just gave another subgroup for Puff Daddy to hate. Illegal Immigrant Bloggers.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:01 pmunbelievable,
Then Juan has no right to comment on our politics.
Juan you’re not America so shut up. Your opinion is meaningless!
December 28th, 2006 at 3:04 pmLike Che’s corpse. Hah ha ha ha ha !
But on the bright side, it could also go a long way towards ending hunger IF done correctly.
Comment by robert — December 28, 2006 @ 3:00 pm
Not 100% sure on that Robert, a cloned cow, still takes the same amount of food, and space, and produces the same amount of waste as a non-cloned cow. I don’t see how it would have an impact on world hunger one way or the other. Making disease resistant grains, or similar ideas sure, but not meat so much.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:05 pmWhat is Soylent Green again?
Comment by Exley — December 28, 2006 @ 2:43 pm
Dead people are turned into food in a future in which over-population of humans has left the planet lacking in food sources.
Pretty much the future if we don’t stop growing the population.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pmit could also go a long way towards ending hunger IF done correctly.
Comment by robert — December 28, 2006 @ 3:00 pm
I’ll have to look up an article for ya. The U.S had food in warehouses in a third world country. The European Union was so against genetically enginerred food, that they talked the nation into forcing the food out. They talked this country into letting their people starve because they were against cloned greenbeans and wheat.
Also Greenpeace is known for stopping shipments of GE food to poor countries.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pmI love you Juan C and Unbelievable..
Comment by Sharon Cox — December 28, 2006 @ 2:54 pm
Ditto!
December 28th, 2006 at 3:08 pmI vote for Puff Daddy to suit up and head off to Iraq.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:08 pmha ha ha your Idol Che died at the hand at CIA bullets.
Ha ha ha ha!
They turned that criminal into swiss cheese.
ha ha ha ha!
Comment by Puff Daddy
I won’t speak for the rest of you, but I find it disturbing when someone can be so delighted that a human being was killed. Really makes me wonder what else he finds so amusing.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:08 pmI could be wrong, but I think that GE food, is far different from cloned animals.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pmHay, puffy troll, take a hike, we are tired of you’re hate speel’s and squeel’s….
Consumers have 90 day’s to request or comment on the cloned meat and it’s packaging with or with out labeling..Get busy and send email’s and letters to the FDA, it might do some good…Maybe not..Me I’m going vegetarian with a tiny sprinkling of home grown anything….Blessings
December 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pmha ha ha your Idol Che died at the hand at CIA bullets.
Puffy, do bullets have hands?
Listen buddy, one troll at a time, and it is my turn.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pmI order all my food from Unbelievable’s garden.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:10 pmNeed a lawyer to answer this
US urged not to hand over Saddam
Saddam Hussein’s chief lawyer has urged the US not to hand over the ousted leader to Iraqi authorities for execution because he is a “war prisoner”.
On Thursday Khalil al-Dulaimi called on international and legal organisations, including the Arab League and the UN, to “rapidly prevent” the Americans from handing Saddam to the Iraqis.
“According to the international conventions it is forbidden to hand a prisoner of war to his adversary,” he said on Thursday.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:11 pmBut on the bright side, it could also go a long way towards ending hunger IF done correctly.
Comment by robert — December 28, 2006 @ 3:00 pm
That’s not how you end hunger – by producing more food. It’s actually how you increase it. Populations have been proven to increase to meet an increase in food growth. Unfortunately, the last thing we need is more people. We’re already well beyond capacity.
Go read “Ishmael’ by Daniel Quinn.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:11 pmJuan C,
ha ha ha your Idol Che died at the hand at CIA bullets.
Comment by Puff Daddy
As Mario Benedetti put it:
December 28th, 2006 at 3:12 pmThey can cut a thousand flowers
but they cant stop Spring.
Go read “Ishmael’ by Daniel Quinn.
Comment by unbelievable — December 28, 2006 @ 3:11 pm
Good story, I should re-read at some point, been a few years.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:13 pmYou just gave another subgroup for Puff Daddy to hate. Illegal Immigrant Bloggers.
Comment by dlet — December 28, 2006 @ 3:01 pm
Except that Juan doesn’t live here, legally or illegally – so it would make him look like an even bigger moron that he already does. :)
December 28th, 2006 at 3:13 pmNot 100% sure on that Robert, a cloned cow, still takes the same amount of food, and space, and produces the same amount of waste as a non-cloned cow. I don’t see how it would have an impact on world hunger one way or the other. Making disease resistant grains, or similar ideas sure, but not meat so much.
Comment by Krazny
If we increase food production and drive down the cost, it can help locally. Excessive food production can be distributed Globally. I know I am talking about “perfect world” situations here, but if we have the technology, we need to use it. Beats the hell out of Soylent Green
Tundra, the EU and GreenPeace can both kiss my ass.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:14 pmThanks, Sharon. :)
Robert, the problem of hunger is not the production of food, but its distribution. Just like wealth and social dignity.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:15 pmFord’s comments are not the words of a hero. Just like George H.W. Bush’s alleged disapproval of his son’s war on Iraq (alleged because he has NEVER confirmed what pundits have speculated about), Gerald R. Ford’s words are those of a coward. A Republican party-loyal coward.
The time to have come forward was in the days leading up to Bush’s push to attack Iraq. When those who were coming forward were losing their jobs over their position against the war. When their patriotism was called into question, when their future livelihoods were being threatened. Former presidents (Bill Clinton included) had special knowledge and access to the same intelligence that George W. Bush was getting. It is one of the benefits of the job – if you want the CIA’s pdb, you could have it. Any former president who disagreed with Bush’s plans for invasion had a responsibility as an American first to enter the public debate.
This is yet another Bob Woodward interview that was held back from the public, ‘embargoed’ (his word) until after Ford’s death.
Why would anyone laud Ford or Woodward for publishing this now?
Woodward, Bush 41 and Ford (and Clinton) should be condemned for trying to come out on the correct side of history at this late date. If you choose to go silent in this democracy when it counts (when the people haven’t made up their minds and are listening to all of the arguments), have the decency to remain silent and take your lumps for backing the losing hand.
All of these men, every one of them, put party politics before people and national interest. These are NOT great people.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:15 pmI think from the rampant typo’s and bare grasp of the english language, that Puff Daddy, and our friend Akbar are one and the same.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:15 pmIts the introduction of terminator technology with genetically modified foods thats what the US want to do ………..Basically America holds the seed stocks for all foods ………controlling or what
December 28th, 2006 at 3:16 pmif we increase food production and drive down the cost, it can help locally.
Comment by robert — December 28, 2006 @ 3:14 pm
Agreed, but I don’t see how a cloned animal will do either. Like I said; would it not still take the same amount of food to raise a cloned animal, as it would to raise a normal animal?
December 28th, 2006 at 3:19 pmThe “war on food” has begun…
December 28th, 2006 at 3:20 pmterminator technology
1. V-GURT This type of GURT produces sterile seeds meaning that a farmer that had purchased seeds containing v-GURT technology could not save the seed from this crop for future planting. This would not have an immediate impact on the large number of farmers who use hybrid seeds, as they do not produce their own planting seeds, and instead buy specialized hybrid seeds from seed production companies. The technology is restricted at the plant variety level – hence the term V-GURT. Manufacturers of genetically enhanced crops would use this technology to protect their products from unauthorised use.
2. T-GURT. A second type of GURT modifies a crop in such a way that the genetic enhancement engineered into the crop does not function until the crop plant is treated with a chemical that is sold by the biotechnology company. Farmers can save seeds for use each year. However, they do not get to use the enhanced trait in the crop unless they purchase the activator compound. The technology is restricted at the trait level – hence the term T-GURT.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:20 pmJust for fear factor
IF YOU THINK THIS IS GOOD IMAGINE AN ARAB COMPANY HAVING RIGHTS ON THE SEED STOCK AND NOW THE USA HAVING TO BUY FROM ARABS
Former presidents (Bill Clinton included) had special knowledge and access to the same intelligence that George W. Bush was getting.
Comment by Maeven — December 28, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
Although I agree with your larger point, I don’t believe this statement to be accurate. I highly doubt former presidents retain their security clearance.
Not even the members of the Senate Intelligence Committee got the same intelligence reports Pres Bush got. It is known now that these were withheld from Congress.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pmFood cloning will “benefit” the rich before anyone else. They will get to clone the best steaks or whatever they want for themselves. Let them find out its all messed up…
December 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pm#173
Off topic but: There are numerous arguments against genetically modified food. The only arguments in favor of them are the ones produced by, oddly enough, the same people that make money off of gene technologies used to produce said modified food.
Carter is the only American politician to regognize the Israeli-Palestinian situation for what it is, a 60 year land grab by Israel. And if you really want to get to the bottom of the the Middle East issues, the role this US supported land grab has played cannot be ignored. Energy issues would have created conflict, becasue rsource issues always will. But it is the massive injustice done to the Palestinians that is at the roots of the inflammation in the Middle East, allowed to happen, ironically enough, in the name of correcting the massive injustices visited upon Jewish peoples.
Two wrongs never make a right.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:23 pmAgreed, but I don’t see how a cloned animal will do either. Like I said; would it not still take the same amount of food to raise a cloned animal, as it would to raise a normal animal?
Yes, but the point of cloning animals is for the copyright protection. The intention is to eliminate non-cloned animals in food production, so that corporations can exclusively own food production, and all profits derived from food production.
I’m not kidding.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:23 pmComment by Corpus Mentis Teuchter
That stuff freaks me out, can I just have a banana?
December 28th, 2006 at 3:24 pmExcept that Juan doesn’t live here, legally or illegally – so it would make him look like an even bigger moron that he already does. :)
Comment by unbelievable
Yeah I remember Juan said he said he didn’t leave in the US. I was projecting that Puffy probaby thinks that the internets is somehow within the US boundries and any foreigner would be here illegally. See Puffy at #170 in all his simple minded glory. I liked your post #82 by the way.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:27 pmI’m not kidding.
Comment by Maeven
You are not, of course.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:28 pmWhy does that have to be the case? Why can’t it be the honest opinion of a former President? And furthermore why can’t this opinion be seen as a move which is in the best interests of the people.
Perhaps, what President Ford saw in his expertise was a way to resolve conflict without shame and therefore retain the moral highground and honor of the nation. But instead we have a darker summary to subscribe to as suggested by Prof. Akbar Ahmed,
December 28th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Tundra, the EU and GreenPeace can both kiss my ass.
Comment by robert
High values, no doubt.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:31 pmComment by Maeven — December 28, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
Although I agree with your larger point, I don’t believe this statement to be accurate. I highly doubt former presidents retain their security clearance.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Actually he may be right, Gregor. My understanding was that former presidents could, upon leaving office, elect to continue to receive intelligence briefings. Bush 41 sure did it, and I thought I heard that Clinton elected to keep getting them. It’s up to them.
I think they allow it so that former poresidents could more competently advise current presidents without needing weeks to catch up on what’s going on. Of course, the rules for handling classified information still apply, and they very likely would no longer be allowed to classify and de-classify things.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:31 pmFood cloning will “benefit†the rich before anyone else. They will get to clone the best steaks or whatever they want for themselves. Let them find out its all messed up…
Comment by ForTruth
I don’t see it that way. After the meat producing companies, which are owned by the rich, develop the cloning technique that will become the staple for the masses. Lower the cost of food production and the profits will rise. The rich won’t eat what the masses eat so the exotic naturally raised animals will become more expensive and only available for the rich to purchase. Probably grown in ivory stables with golden water troughs.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:32 pmHigh values, no doubt.
Comment by Juan C — December 28, 2006 @ 3:31 pm
Blocking food to the people that are hungry because you are against GE food makes you have high values?
December 28th, 2006 at 3:35 pmGood point dlet,
That makes more sense than what I said.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:36 pmThen Juan has no right to comment on our politics.
Juan you’re not America so shut up. Your opinion is meaningless!
Like Che’s corpse. Hah ha ha ha ha !
Comment by Puff Daddy — December 28, 2006 @ 3:04 pm
I don’t know which is sadder – the fact that you think that or that you hypocritically commented on Foreign affairs while saying that…
Enough of you. Shoo fly.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:37 pm#202, Juan, I ment in this situation. Greenpeace has done good things, but sometimes they stand in the way of good things. The EU can be against GE food all they want, but should not be imposing there will on others.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:38 pmThey can cut a thousand flowers
but they cant stop Spring.
Comment by Juan C — December 28, 2006 @ 3:12 pm
Excellent!
December 28th, 2006 at 3:39 pmBlocking food to the people that are hungry because you are against GE food makes you have high values?
Comment by Tundra
I wasnt making reference to you. It was for robert´s comment.
I guess Greenpeace knows far more better what Monsanto and other corporations are trying to give to the people than you and I to make that simplistic comment.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:40 pmNeed a lawyer to answer this _ come on all you would be lawyers have a crack at this one and watch you dont get shot
US urged not to hand over Saddam
Saddam Hussein’s chief lawyer has urged the US not to hand over the ousted leader to Iraqi authorities for execution because he is a “war prisonerâ€.
On Thursday Khalil al-Dulaimi called on international and legal organisations, including the Arab League and the UN, to “rapidly prevent†the Americans from handing Saddam to the Iraqis.
“According to the international conventions it is forbidden to hand a prisoner of war to his adversary,†he said on Thursday.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:40 pmAlthough I agree with your larger point, I don’t believe this statement to be accurate. I highly doubt former presidents retain their security clearance.
Not even the members of the Senate Intelligence Committee got the same intelligence reports Pres Bush got. It is known now that these were withheld from Congress.
Members of the Senate Intelligence Committee did not get the same intelligence reports that Bush got, that’s true. But a member of the Senate, no matter how senior, does not have the advantages and access that a former president has once he leaves office.
Pretend for a moment that you’re a former President of the United States who began each and every day of your term in office in a meeting with your own personal intelligence briefer. You also could demand and receive assessments from all of the government’s intelligence agencies on anything that you wanted to know (NIE). It’s on paper for you to read, to question, to get verbal answers to.
By the time that you leave office, you know what to ask and you know how to read between the lines. You also have relationships with foreign heads of state, and you can (and do) pick up a phone and speak to them. When George H.W. Bush left office, it was these briefings and these relationships that made him such an attractive partner for defense and security firms, like the Carlyle Group.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pmGood story, I should re-read at some point, been a few years.
Comment by Krazny — December 28, 2006 @ 3:13 pm
The Story of B was a good third follow up if you’re ever inclined. I heard the End of Civilization didn’t really give any ideas for how to fix the problem though…
December 28th, 2006 at 3:43 pmComment by robert
I seriously think that you really dont give a f*ck about the EU and Greenpeace in ALL situations, robert, right?
GE food have unknown consequences on living beings. Thats the issue. There are few studies concerning the consequences of eating a tomato which has north fish´s genes in order to endure winters. Meanwhile, we have to eat their monopolized stuff.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:44 pmThe EU can be against GE food all they want, but should not be imposing there will on others.
Comment by robert
But the US should impose people to eat GE food? Why not give them the naturally grown food and keep all the GM stuff here where we Americans accept this type of crap for some reason. Why give it to the people that have no choice but to eat it or die? To get an economic foot hold? Nothing this country does is for the goodness of the act when it involves corporate money and opportunity.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:44 pmIf we increase food production and drive down the cost, it can help locally. Excessive food production can be distributed Globally.
Comment by robert — December 28, 2006 @ 3:14 pm
Again – if you increase food production – you will increase the population on the planet. There are not enough other resources to support that.
So, you produce this surplus food, but it will not get to the people it is meant to feed (just like it doesn’t now) – it will stay in the US making Americans even more obese by feeding them someone else’s meals – because the greedy corporate gluttons can make more money by selling it to fat Americans than developing nations.
Make sense?
December 28th, 2006 at 3:48 pmperhaps the answer is to take Saddam Hussien back to George Bushes ranch and keep him in a large parrot type cage and let bush throw some peanutz in every now and then and show Daddy his new pet
December 28th, 2006 at 3:48 pmThat stuff freaks me out, can I just have a banana?
Comment by ForTruth — December 28, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
That’s what I do…. :D
Beyond the cloning issues is the issue of mistreatment of the animals. I refuse to contribute or support that system by buying their products. I believe it was Gandhi who said that you could judge the morality of a culture based on how they treat their animals. We’re not doing so well…
December 28th, 2006 at 3:52 pmdlet, I did not say to ONLY give GE/Cloned food to poor nations and keep the natural stuff to ourselves. I said it could increase food production and be used to ASSIST in helping hunger.
Juan, No, not to concerned with the EU as we have enough problems here in the U.S. And I say again, GreenPeace has done good things in environmental protection and protection of sea life, etc. But letting people starve is not a good thing. And I agree that GE foods need more study before release to the mass population (though I said that *scratch head*)
December 28th, 2006 at 3:53 pm“I’ve never publicly said I thought they made a mistake, but I felt very strongly it was an error in how they should justify what they were going to do.”
I read all of the Ford’s comments and there was a lot of duplicity. But this comment I agree with. I felt that there were many good reasons to go into Iraq (Saddam was a tyrrant and a threat; Saddam’s failure to comply with the 17 U.N. resolutions; the idea of sandwiching Iran with two democracies as another front on the war on terror; and of course the idea the Saddam could have been cooperating with Al Queda and the widely held belief, at that time, that he possessed WMD that could be shared with terrorists). I never understood why the administration focused solely on the WMD charge when there were multiply good reasons for the action. With all their eggs in one basket, I believe that plan backfired.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:53 pmI was projecting that Puffy probaby thinks that the internets is somehow within the US boundries and any foreigner would be here illegally. See Puffy at #170 in all his simple minded glory.
I’m sure you’re right… His kind can’t see past tehir own skin color, heritage and gender…
I liked your post #82 by the way.
Comment by dlet — December 28, 2006 @ 3:27 pm
Thanks :)
December 28th, 2006 at 3:53 pmGE food have unknown consequences on living beings.
Unlike starvation which has known issues.
But the US should impose people to eat GE food?
December 28th, 2006 at 3:56 pmThey don’t have to. And their government kicked the grain out of the warehouses. Which I am sure is what the starving people wanted. So now the U.S is wrong again, typical. We aren’t sending better food than what we feed ourselves with.
unbelievable, I understand what you are saying. I though that I used the terms “perfect world situation” and “if done right”(*scratch head again*) After all, we are talking theory here.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:56 pmJuan C. I, for one, am more interested in your comments because you are not living in America. Thank you.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:56 pmBut letting people starve is not a good thing. Comment by robert
Greenpeace dont let people starve. Governments do.
December 28th, 2006 at 3:57 pmRussian zarist state starved to death 5 million of people.
I loved being In Iraq ?????
December 28th, 2006 at 3:58 pmI said it could increase food production and be used to ASSIST in helping hunger.
Comment by robert — December 28, 2006 @ 3:53 pm
It won’t help in the future because it is not helping NOW…
Why do you think there are starving people in the world TODAY? Because someone else has eaten their food (why we are so grossly obese – we make and eat the majority of the food)…
Come on, it’s not that complicated to see that if that idea isn’t working now – it won’t work no matter how many times you repeat it while hoping for different results.
You have noble theories robert – the problem is that they don’t work in reality.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:02 pmI hope you’re wrong on that.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:02 pmBy the time that you leave office, you know what to ask and you know how to read between the lines.
Comment by Maeven — December 28, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
Ok, so you are talking about unofficial channels? If that is the case then, yes, you could argue that former presidents receive some of the same information.
I am more intrigued by Wayne Schneider’s comment about former presidents retaining their clearance. I did a quick search on the web and came back empty-handed. All I could find was Alfred Cumming’s memo to Sen. Feinstein where he states that “The President is able to control dissemination of intelligence information to Congress because the Intelligence Community is part of the executive branch. [...] Thus, as the head of the executive branch, the President generally is acknowledged to be “the owner” of national intelligence.”
He is talking, of course, about the sitting president.
At any rate, as I said before: I agree that other people had the responsibility to speak out. I have to question the motives of those who spoke against it after the fact, once it was obvious that things were not going well.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:02 pmSaddam was a tyrrant and a threat; Saddam’s failure to comply with the 17 U.N. resolutions; the idea of sandwiching Iran with two democracies as another front on the war on terror; and of course the idea the Saddam could have been cooperating with Al Queda and the widely held belief, at that time, that he possessed WMD that could be shared with terrorists
comment by paul.
In that order:
1) The same can be said about Bush or the Saudi king.
2) Israel failed to bey +70 UN resolutions
3) Iran is a democracy
4) Al-Qaeda and Saddam ties were a myth for an interested-in-the-truth average citizen.
5) WMD was a made up claim. Only scared ignorants believed that.
I never understood why the administration focused solely on the WMD charge when there were multiply good reasons for the action.
Comment by paul
I agree, they are: Oil and Geostrategy.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:04 pmWe might have had the Sedition Act II. If you recall, the first one criminalized speech disparaging the President, but not the Vice President!
December 28th, 2006 at 4:05 pmComment by Puff Daddy — December 28, 2006 @ 3:04 pm
You need to read your Plato more often.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:07 pmI understand what you are saying.
If you did – then you wouldn’t think this “grow more food” theory was valid… It’s noble, but it’s not the solution.
I though that I used the terms “perfect world situation†and “if done rightâ€(*scratch head again*) After all, we are talking theory here.
Comment by robert — December 28, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
If ‘done right’, there is already enough food to feed everyone alive. THAT is the problem – as Juan pointed out – it is not being distributed to those for whom it is meant.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:07 pmJuan C. I, for one, am more interested in your comments because you are not living in America. Thank you.
Comment by paul — December 28, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
Agreed! Plus Juan is insightful, brilliant and has a far better command of the English language than any of the trolls who were born into an English speaking country.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pmIf I remember correctly, the situation in Ethiopia, was caused by warlords preventing food reaching starving people, not that they were unable to produce enough food.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:11 pmvidi vici veni Marine
Then you weren’t in Iraq.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:12 pmJuan,
Iran an democracy? That’s a joke. The clerics must approve of the candidates and Revolutionary Guard members intimidate people into voting for certain candidates.
Let me guess in your twisted mind Stalin and Mao were great humanitarians right?
December 28th, 2006 at 4:13 pmIf America is so bad why do Millions want to come here?
Answer that one mass muredering loving fool!
Giving food to those who need it most makes no profit.
How hard is that to understand Robert?
December 28th, 2006 at 4:16 pmJuan C. I, for one, am more interested in your comments because you are not living in America. Thank you.
Comment by paul
I know this is onboxious but I live in America. I just dont live in the US.
paul, thank you, I wish I can help, but Im afraid you wont like it. Even the latinamerican citizen who dont have access to proper education knows that US is all about war. You make wars to pump your economy, its a war based economy, and to pump weapon sells all over the world. You invade to protect your interests: political and economical. If a country turns to other companies to get something, it is very likely that Marines will be sent to that place. You will get the usual propaganda that that country were planning a leninist-marxist revolution or nowadays a terrorist action is the favorite excuse. You see, paul, one thing that surprises me is that US citizens are, by far, the most uniformed people in the world. Your leaders just tell you to go shopping and forget about the real issues. Thats why you have war propaganda like: Support the troops. Which is a phrase that means nothing. Nobody will dare to question that. Therefore, nobody questions the foreign policy of the US.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:16 pmI agree we need to get the CURRENT distribution problems taken care of, i.e. distribute more food to those who need it.
BTW, I too like Juan Cs posts, even if we rarely agree.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:16 pmControl the food supply and you control the people.
The oceans are being emptied. One more generation (if that long) and there will be no more food in the sea. The only seafood that will be available to eat will be farmed seafood – that means corporate owned.
There are very few family farms-ranches in existence in the U.S. today. There are so few left that it’s fair to say that they’re extinct and all that exists are corporate-farms-ranches. Corporate pig farming is destroying both the lands and rivers (and seas, creating dead zones around the world).
The purpose of gmo in the short term is to be able to slightly change the DNA and then own (by copyright) the gmo-animal. We have Bill Clinton to thank for that. We do not own our own, individual DNA any more. The DNA that makes you you, separate and distinct from another person in your own family, you do not own and you have no right to own. Big Pharma owns your DNA.
In the long term, corporate farming can change any of the DNA in farmed-ranched animals to affect the consumers of their animals. If the corporate government wants to change the population in some way (birth control, for example) they can do it through our food.
The people of Iraq are an unwilling and unwitting group being experimented on by Big Agra. One of the 100 orders of Paul Bremer that were included in the Iraq Constitution was the outlawing of any seed in farming that wasn’t purchased from Big Agra (gmo). Iraq had the biggest and the oldest seed store in the world (’heirloom’ seeds going back 7000 years), and the U.S. destroyed it.
Most Americans know nothing about this, or how they are being experimented on, without their knowledge or permission. Europeans have the right approach, to be skeptical of ‘franken’-foods. The U.S. used to have protocols that required long-term research and an informed (and ‘with-consent’ population) before any new product was released for us in the public. Our government agencies were to protect and serve the people of the U.S., not the corporations, not the businesses. Corporatism (Republican-deregulation, privatization) eliminated protocols protecting the health of the people.
Just because we have full stomachs doesn’t mean we’re well-nourished. Americans are experiencing more diseases (strange illnesses, chronic conditions), less vitality, poorer quality of life, than ever in our past.
It’s going to take a widespread populist movement to drive corporate control out of government and return the U.S. to the people.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pmForTruth,
Did I say I was concerned with profit? I don’t have stock in any food companies or GE labs.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:19 pmHey Juan,
December 28th, 2006 at 4:23 pmYou’re an America hater. You’re just a commie slime who’s upset that your immigration Visa was rejected.
If this nation is so bad, Why do people want to come here.
You’re probably one of those rich spoile Latin American Leftists that hate America because you’re jealous that Latins that come here make it. They make it here because we don’t have Che lovers like you.
Hey Che swiss cheese that’s a good product!
Che got killed by the CIA!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Agreed! Plus Juan is insightful, brilliant and has a far better command of the English language than any of the trolls who were born into an English speaking country.
Comment by unbelievable
:) Thank you!!! Really undeserved, but thanks.
Iran an democracy? That’s a joke. The clerics must approve of the candidates and Revolutionary Guard members intimidate people into voting for certain candidates.
Comment by Puff Daddy
The same can be said about US with less aggressive methods. Do you call democracy what happened in Florida and Ohio in the 2000 elections?
If America is so bad why do Millions want to come here?
December 28th, 2006 at 4:23 pmBecause of necessity.
GE food have unknown consequences on living beings.
Unlike starvation which has known issues.
Starvation has more to do with distribution problems associated with war, and not because of anything that creating franken-food will solve.
Why aren’t Americans demanding that GMO-foods be labeled as such? Our government is allowing corporations that produce GMO-foods to force it on us because “if consumers knew it was GMO, they wouldn’t buy it.”
So much for informed consent, and so much for freedom of choice in America.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:26 pmThey don’t have to. And their government kicked the grain out of the warehouses. Which I am sure is what the starving people wanted.
Comment by Tundra — December 28, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
I was trying really hard to stay on topic, but I need to respond to this one.
The reason why many governments area against importing genetically altered crops, is simply because some are sterile: They have been modified in such a way that the plants do not produce viable seeds/grains. The seeds collected in the “second generation” do not germinate, thus forcing farmers to purchase grains everytime they want to have a crop. Which in turns creates a dependency on a foreign country or multinational corporation for basic food production. No leader in his sane mind would put his nation in a situation like that.
The concerns with the fertile crops involve the unintended pollination of non-genetically altered crops, or maybe even other types of plants. It sounds like a minor nuisnace until you consider the millions of dollars spent on preserving indigenous echo-systems that are under enormous pressure due to imported “alien” species.
I agree with posters who say that genetically altered foods, or cloned animals are not necessarily the panacea to solve world hunger. The world poor’s plight is not due to a shortage of food production, but a lack in fairness in its distribution. Producers and farmers all over the world will send their products to whoever can afford them, not necessarily to those who need it the most. For example, as hunger and humanitarian catastrophe looms in Sudan, vegetables produced in that that country can be purchased in European markets.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:26 pmJust because we have full stomachs doesn’t mean we’re well-nourished. Americans are experiencing more diseases (strange illnesses, chronic conditions), less vitality, poorer quality of life, than ever in our past
And the theory of evolution in action will take care of stupidity.
I have noticed the drastic decline in the quality of food even since I was a kid.
“The mentality that man can control, and even defy nature will be his extinction”
– ForTruth, 2006
December 28th, 2006 at 4:28 pm#211
I offer a compromise: The US will keep Sadam and turn DUHbya over to the Iraqis. Sadam will become head of the RNC (Republican National Committee) as he couldn’t do any more harm than has already been done and it is a dead-end job. DUHbya will get a first hand look at the mess he has made in Iraq and can spend the time building his legacy while mucking camel dung.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:30 pmSince when have international conventions stopped Bush? (Or, for that matter, domestic law and the Constitution?)
I don’t know which Conventions Saddam’s lawyer is citing, but if it’s the Geneva Convention, he may be out of luck.
The Military Commissions Act of 2006:
TREATY OBLIGATIONS NOT ESTABLISHING GROUNDS FOR CERTAIN CLAIMS.
(a) In General.–No person may invoke the Geneva Conventions or any protocols thereto in any habeas corpus or other civil action or proceeding to which the United States, or a current or former officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent of the United States is a party as a source of rights in any court of the United States or its States or territories.
…
Interpretation by the president.–
(A) As provided by the Constitution and by this section, the President has the authority for the United States to interpret the meaning and application of the Geneva Conventions and to promulgate higher standards and administrative regulations for violations of treaty obligations which are not grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions.
In other words, Bush gets to intrepretate the Geneva Convections.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:36 pmJuan,
December 28th, 2006 at 4:37 pmYou’re boy Castro is dying? Any words on that loser that looks like a walking heap of Bones? He’ll join your swiss cheese looking here Che in Hell.
Hey people come here because there’s oppurtunity here.
You’re just a hater because your Visa was rejected.
Ha ha your Visa was rejected loser!
No leader in his sane mind would put his nation in a situation like that.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:40 pmComment by Gregor Samsa
That doesnt apply for III World countries. Otherwise, Great post.
Puff Daddy,
Your bigotry is showing.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:40 pmPuff Daddy thinks having sex with a cloned sheep is just as safe as having sex with a normal sheep.
Now discuss…
December 28th, 2006 at 4:43 pmPuff,
December 28th, 2006 at 4:44 pmJuan C is a supporter of Iran. He’s planning on moving there. Hopefully when we bomb those ragheads he’ll be in one the sites we hit! Juan you’re a loser and a hata.
You hate America cause we’re the best and your half starving country ain’t shit you herb! We’re a nation of playas that wear shining bling! Half your nation eats roaches for breakfast! ha!
Puff talks to his imaginary friend, Dre. Dre
December 28th, 2006 at 4:46 pm#121….Yikes. Good point, Jay….Wayne and I are really not being sharp today at all….Must be all the holiday merry-making.
Comment by Exley
So why don’t both of you a*sholes, shut the f*ck up!!!:D
December 28th, 2006 at 4:47 pmWe’ll never again see the likes of their intelligence or fortitude.
Comment by WC — December 28, 2006 @ 2:54 pm
I hope you’re wrong on that.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — December 28, 2006 @ 4:02 pm
Just so you know, that comment was in the context of creating a new country and government and the checks and balances they built in to them, and was, in a way, a comparison to the gang we have in our gov’t today. But as far as seeing evidence of their level of intelligence now or in the future, I agree with you and hope I am wrong, too.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:48 pmThat doesnt apply for III World countries. Otherwise, Great post.
Comment by Juan C — December 28, 2006 @ 4:40 pm
Thanks Juan, but it also applies to 3rd World Countries. Unless you are talking about a dictator who can be swayed by the mighty dollar and who can seek personal gain out of genetically altered crops.
More nationalist leaders (like Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Lula, Mandela, etc.) are unlikely to mortage the future of their nations to a multinational.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:49 pmGregor Samsa,
December 28th, 2006 at 4:55 pmAh an admirer of Ahmadinejad. So you deny the Holocaust like him right? You probably admire Hitler and Stalin.
By the way Iran’s economy is in the dumps and their oil revenue is going down.
Wow a Leftists who admitts he admires Ahmadinejad. So Holocaust denail is cool right?
More nationalist leaders (like Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Lula, Mandela, etc.) are unlikely to mortage the future of their nations to a multinational.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I think privatizing strategic industries is to mortage the future of nations to foreign multinationals. Having said that: Menem privatized everything. In Uruguay, they privatize strategic industries and they came up with the doubling of the external debt. In Bolivia, they privatized gas…before Morales…sort of. In Mexico, for example, oil is still a “national” industry which is managed, extracted and produced by multinationals. And a year ago, there were discussing a law in the Mexican Congress about Biosecurity, called the Monsanto Law. Guess who won.
December 28th, 2006 at 4:58 pmUnless you are talking about a dictator who can be swayed by the mighty dollar and who can seek personal gain out of genetically altered crops.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I know it may sound odd to you, cuz you live in a country where the people have a real saying in matters of the country. Here we rarely do. ALL politicians, no dictators needed, seek to their personal gain out of ANYTHING.
Water = Soda companies (Coke), Oil = Shell, Schlumberger, Standard oil, BP. Woods = Paper and other related companies.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:05 pmAh an admirer of Ahmadinejad.
Comment by Puff daddy — December 28, 2006 @ 4:55 pm
You need a reading comprehension course. Badly.
You still have to produce a post that is not disjointed. The last one to me is specially worrisome -if I cared enough to worry, that is.
Now please, try putting down the bong.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:07 pmJuan C,
December 28th, 2006 at 5:07 pmHow does it feel to have no dick?
Actually you are a dick. I can understand. Your Visa was rejected ha ha ha !
That isn’t flatulence you smell, it’s Puff Daddy, cuz of how much of an asshole he is.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:15 pmNow please, try putting down the bong.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — December 28, 2006 @ 5:07 pm
Gregor, he can pass it my way, I don’t have any trouble with reading comprehension! ;-D
December 28th, 2006 at 5:15 pmBy the time that you leave office, you know what to ask and you know how to read between the lines.
Comment by Maeven — December 28, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
Ok, so you are talking about unofficial channels? If that is the case then, yes, you could argue that former presidents receive some of the same information.
I’m talking about both – unofficial and official channels.
As a democrat, I was being particularly hard on Clinton (and Hillary), who should be held to account by all democrats. There is no way that the Clintons didn’t know we were being rushed into that war based on lies – and that once in it would be nearly impossible to get out.
I am more intrigued by Wayne Schneider’s comment about former presidents retaining their clearance. I did a quick search on the web and came back empty-handed. All I could find was Alfred Cumming’s memo to Sen. Feinstein where he states that “The President is able to control dissemination of intelligence information to Congress because the Intelligence Community is part of the executive branch. […] Thus, as the head of the executive branch, the President generally is acknowledged to be “the owner†of national intelligence.â€
My understanding is the same as Wayne Schneider’s, with this addition:
We, the People, are generally misinformed about classified information and its leakage. We are giving this idealized vision of what goes on in Washington, that laws are uniformly followed and when they aren’t, they’re uniformly prosecuted. Policing authority can’t be everywhere (or up until the NSA warrantless wiretapping, that was true), so the people have to believe that they will be prosecuted if they break the law.
If this administration has taught us nothing else, it’s that who gets prosecuted depends on who has the power at any given time. If you’re a Republican and Republicans are in power, you’re not going to get in trouble for sexually harassing pages. I know that the republican trolls will go insane seeing that and look for ways that Democrats don’t go after their own. But Democrats do go after their own, and Democrats do let Republicans go after Democrats. In the last 35 years, the reverse is less often the case.
Information, classified or not, is regularly leaked. Information is the coin of the realm, and anytime that you add ‘people’ to the mix, information is going to get leaked. People talk. Whether it’s classified or not, people run off at the mouth. It is the nature of the beast. I can tell you that from personal experience and I can point you to any number of accounts in recent news. George Tenet used gossip on both Bush and Rumsfeld to get job security for himself once the 2000 election was decided. And wasn’t Richard Armitage’s disclosing of Valerie Plame’s identity couched in terms of Armitage being a “known gossip”?
We know that this administration has gone to lengths not seen before in keeping secrets from everyone. Bush may have clamped down on the information given to former presidents in their CIA briefings, but consider this:
Two of the four former presidents aren’t really retired – they have current and future interest in politics. One of them (Bush 41) is not only a former president, but the former head of the CIA. A beloved head of the CIA, the man whose son (the current president) is feeding them to the wolves for 9/11. He also has another son with presidential ambitions. 41 is not out of politics, and seems to see his sons as having princely rights to the job, with his guidance.
The other former president has a wife whom he and she plan to become the first woman president. This former president and Bush 41 have also become fast friends – Do you really believe that they aren’t talking about world affairs and problems and what the current president is up to? Do you believe that either one of these former presidents just accepted what was being told to them without pressing for more, testing other channels? Bush 41 is in the oil business and his livelihood depends on current, accurate intelligence – Does anyone believe that he wouldn’t know the truth of Saddam Hussein’s WMD and the impact of a war on oil worldwide?
It doesn’t pass the giggle test.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:17 pmAnother good reason to go into Iraq was to go on the offense in the war on terror. Terrorist organizations, like Al Queda, declared war on the U.S. during the late 90’s. There have been many attacks against the west since. On 9/11, the U.S. lost close to 3,000 citizens on one day. In the more than 5 years since, we have lost about the same number in Iraq. I prefer to be on offense rather than waiting and debating. Restricting ourselves to only diplomacy, gives terrorist more opportunity to plan and execute terror activities against Americans at home.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:18 pmSamsa,
December 28th, 2006 at 5:20 pmI rather have bad spelling than support a Holocaust denier like Ahmadinejad.
The so called tolereance of the Left. Nice allies you have in Islamists and Neo-Nazis.
ALL politicians, no dictators needed, seek to their personal gain out of ANYTHING.
Comment by Juan C — December 28, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
Right, I am aware. I was thinking of a scenario where one person, or a very small group of people singlehandedly decide to replace all crops with genetically altered ones.
What you are saying is also true of practically any country. You say the US is different because people “have a real say in matters of the country”. Need I remind you of Iraq? See, what you say also applied to the US as well.
All I am saying is that more nationalist leaders (specially those at the receiving end of US foreign policy) are less likely to bend to American designs. Doing so would spell disaster for their countries, as well as them personally, given -as it is- that most of these genetically altered crops are patented. Who owns those patents? American corporations. It would only take a presidential ban on trade with those nations for their agriculture to go into chaos. Or an embargo, Cuba-style.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:20 pmPaul,
Your adult diaper needs a changing.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:22 pmJuan and Samsa,
December 28th, 2006 at 5:25 pmSupporters of Terrorists, Nazis and Communists. Nice people to admire!
I rather have bad spelling than support a Holocaust denier like Ahmadinejad.
Comment by Puff Daddy — December 28, 2006 @ 5:20 pm
I didn’t mention your spelling. I said “reading comprehension”; which is still piss-poor by the way.
I did, however, mention another troll’s poor spelling yesterday, Puff Daddy/Redman/Akbar/Nasty Nas -you just blew your cover.
Are you usually this slow-witted, or has all the imbibing gone to your (one and only) brain cell?
December 28th, 2006 at 5:28 pmBoy, the trolls are really stinking up the place today!
I have to run, see you all tomorrow!
December 28th, 2006 at 5:29 pmPuff daddy, Dre. Dre, and Dr. Dre
All the same person, moron.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:29 pmForTruth. I respect your opinion. Let me ask you this. If you were a terrorist, wouldn’t you think that it is important that the U.S. fail in Iraq? (They do from their own admissions). If that is the case, wouldn’t you put your efforts into Iraq, instead of planning attacks against civilians in U.S. cities?
December 28th, 2006 at 5:30 pmHappy New Year, progs and Progettes! Well, I knew if I was patient and listened to the predictable comments of Chris “where’d that second chin go?” Matthews, Bob Woody and the AP I would get BOTH sides of the Dead President story.
a.) “we have the somewhat bumbling, stumbling former President who just some how managed to do an OK job,”
b.) “we have a 91 year old rocket scientist who KNOWS what an idiot GWB is.”
It’s fun to be back!
December 28th, 2006 at 5:30 pmComment by Gregor Samsa
Agreed.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:32 pmGregor Samsa,
December 28th, 2006 at 5:33 pmYou support Nazis, Marxists and Terrorists. You’re a great humanitarian!
Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Ayatollah Khomenei, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Sheik Nasrallah, Bin Laden and Zarqawi all great men I bet!
Er Paul – “go on the offense in the war on terror”? There were no 9-11 terrorists in Iraq, the Al Qaeda cadre was actively being pursued by Hussein or was in hiding in the kurdish sector….soo exactly what does “going on the offensive” mean as a reason for invading Iraq? Has the invasion reduced hatred and terror sympathies against the US? Please enlighten us with your answer…. Dude – Chimpy invaded the wrong country…..
December 28th, 2006 at 5:34 pm#279 – “….There were no 9-11 terrorists in Iraq, the Al Qaeda cadre was actively being pursued by Hussein or was in hiding in the kurdish sector…….” – Comment by Terry the Turtle
******And you know this factoid …because..?????? In truth, you have NO evidence for this “statement”….
December 28th, 2006 at 5:40 pmma…all that shows is that Ford was a lot stupider when he was younger. Who wasn’t?
December 28th, 2006 at 5:41 pmYou support Nazis, Marxists and Terrorists.
Comment by Dr Dre. — December 28, 2006 @ 5:33 pm
You are such a bore, and barely worth the time I will spend typing this message.
Your nonsense is laughable, your rambles are beyond incoherent, your posts disjointed, and your non sequiturs would make a case study for Freud.
If you have nothing meaningful to say, go back to watching the Power Rangers. Try not to slip on your own drool.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:42 pmComment by Gregor Samsa — December 28, 2006 @ 5:07 pm
I think he has already taken a reading comprehension course, badly.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:43 pmHey Puff Daddy,
I have read your numerous posts. You sound like some ignorant, junior high school idiot with too much time on your hands before schools starts! Get off the computer with the grown-ups and go play somewhere (try a freeway):-)
December 28th, 2006 at 5:48 pmP*** off MA – you are a name hijacking scumbag. I don’t deal with lying scum like you.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:49 pmComment by paul — December 28, 2006 @ 5:18 pm
Well, we have certainly succeeded in becoming the most offensive Terrorist State in the world.
Comment by paul — December 28, 2006 @ 5:18 pm
Then you must have been outraged that Bush stalled and delayed the criminal investigation into the events of 9/11. Oh, wait. There wasn’t a criminal investigation. Congress was limited to investigating the “failure in intelligence.” Guess what? The “official explanation” no longer passes the “straight face” test. The latest? Commercial aircraft have to install special equipment in order for passengers to be able to use their cell phones in flight. You want to find the “terrorists” responsible for 9/11? Better start taking a close look at individuals within our own government.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:49 pmRe; #285 – -
December 28th, 2006 at 5:51 pm*****Dear RATF&SP – To this day I would rather have a dead Gerald Ford on my ideological side…. than a “live” Jimmey Carter….
And on that note, good night everyone.
And both Jane and I want to wish EVERYONE who visits here a safe, happy holiday celebration.
Have a Happy and Prosperous New Year. Jane may stop by tomorrow but I am off and will be back Tuesday.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:52 pmMighty A, back again, I see. Ready for another Rune?
December 28th, 2006 at 5:53 pmTerrytheturtle. How’s it going? If you goal is gaining sympathy for the U.S, I agree with your assessment. The Czechs, Pols, and French were able to to garner alot of sympathy during WWII. I prefer protecting our freedoms and lifestyle and reducing our exposure to terrorism, even if makes it more difficult to elicit sympathetic feelings from others.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:53 pmTerry – You obviously find it a tad easier to fling insults than provide FACTS….Really, why am I surprised?
December 28th, 2006 at 5:53 pm#287…of course, because peace and helping people who are less fortunate than you are not your thing.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:54 pmWayne: Happy Holidays to you and Jane.
December 28th, 2006 at 5:56 pmForTruth. I respect your opinion. Let me ask you this. If you were a terrorist, wouldn’t you think that it is important that the U.S. fail in Iraq? (They do from their own admissions). If that is the case, wouldn’t you put your efforts into Iraq, instead of planning attacks against civilians in U.S. cities?
Comment by paul
By this logic I agree with you. I don’t know how organized all the terrorists are. And I don’t know what they feel they should concentrate thier efforts on. I’m sure they concentrate their efforts on US interests. The other side of the same coin is: If we get out of there, we aren’t interested in Iraq anymore. But I know its too late, we built a city and a bunch of bases. We aren’t going anywhere. I think the terrorists want to attack civilians in our country and put efforts into Iraq. Which is more important to you?
December 28th, 2006 at 5:57 pmBraid Fairy – I’m surprised you have time to play with your runes considering your vast “research” into the “inside job” of 9/11. Go play with that whack case, Jew-hating, plunger…..
You remind me of a hairless, harmless Bill Kuntsler….why is that?
December 28th, 2006 at 5:58 pmBriseadh na Faire. I have read alot of your postings and believe you to be very intelligent. Please explain to me how the Bush administration can be responsible for 9/11 and not be able to plant WMD in the Iraqi desert to justify the invasion. Also, how does the Administration keep the media at bay if there is any legitamacy to the claims?
December 28th, 2006 at 5:59 pmFact: you posted under my handle MA, Bruce Gorton and I caught you red-handed – lying scumbag – there’s your fact. P*** off scum.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:00 pmYou obviously find it a tad easier to fling insults than provide FACTS
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 28, 2006 @ 5:53 pm
Says the twit who, to this day, is unable to provide a link with facts to back up any of the claptrap he posts.
Welcome back, Mitey Coprolite. I was running out of trolls to bash.
How are your imaginary friends, co-workers, and relatives doing? Did you have a nice imaginary Christmas dinner with them?
December 28th, 2006 at 6:00 pmI love the idea of peace – - but NOT at ANY cost like toooo many Progettes espouse. Jimmy Carter should HELP even more people and move to Palestine! or Venezuela…..That POS has been a hinderance to most American foreign policy during the last 28 years. Look up “Domestic enemy” – his face is prominently depicted…..
December 28th, 2006 at 6:01 pm“I don’t think, if I had been president, on the basis of the facts as I saw them publicly,†Gerald Ford – -
*****Since I doubt Gerald saw much more than the rest of us, what DIFFERENCE does it make what he would have done had he been in charge?? I’ll save you time….NOTHING.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:04 pmAgain, President Jimmy Carter warned America about the effects of being dependent upon foreign oil back in 1978. If we as a country had taken Carter’s advice, the middle east would not be on fire today. High demand and the corresponding high price of oil, fuels terrorism. Carter was right and some of the most profound problems we face today would be non-issues if we had gone Carter’s way. And, we now know that Carter and Ford agreed that the invasion of Iraq was a huge mistake.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:08 pmDear Timid Terry – I have had MORE “people” post phony garbage using my moniker than you ever thought of. Were you always such a wussy crybaby? Still….I suppose if I could not provide a scintilla of evidence for my “statement”….I might play”wounded”.
Go cry to your mom – she loves you regardless of what a panty waist you are….. And when you come back, tell us how you KNOW Saddam was dealing with AlQueda….
December 28th, 2006 at 6:10 pmHey if someone isn’t going to believe our own CIA, our Pentagon and our State Department, nothing’s going to convince that someone of anything, so why try?
December 28th, 2006 at 6:10 pmComment by paul — December 28, 2006 @ 5:59 pm
Search back through the threads, paul. I’ve already answered that question.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:10 pm#294. ForTruth. Reasonable post. I have been a soldier. The cold truth for me is: I would rather terrorist be plotting against armed U.S. soldiers in Iraq, than unarmed civilians in the U.S.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:12 pmPaul, does “Operation Northwoods” ring a bell? How about “Remember the Maine!”? Have you heard the one about how the Nazis blew up their own government building and blamed the “terrorists?” Just wondering. Because, I’m not saying it did happen. I’m just saying these things DO happen.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:16 pmI’m also believe that Jimmy Carter’s interference in foreign policy is damaging to the U.S., but I agree with Bluedog49 that Carter’s idea about energy independence was right. If we were wise, we would commit to a similar plan today.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:17 pmPaul,
I agree with you, that fighting the enemy is important. I disagree with how Bush decided to go about it. Very little has been gained by entering Iraq. The terrorist enemy is not a large government, it is small fast moving groups. It would be better fought using civilian law enforcement, backed up by federal agencies, like the DIA, CIA, etc, and use groups of special ops troops not just from the US, but also from the rest of the civilized world. If we had done that, we would not be bleeding money from our treasurey, the world would not hate us, and maybe just maybe the men responsible would be on trial.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:17 pmPaul: “The cold truth for me is: I would rather terrorist be plotting against armed U.S. soldiers in Iraq, than unarmed civilians in the U.S.”
What on earth makes you think this is an “either/or” situation?
December 28th, 2006 at 6:18 pmJimmy Carter, the Paper Eagle…..That poor putz could manage his way out of Billy’s 6-pack holder…..He did own some rather “interesting” cardigans – I wonder if Miss Lillian or Roslynn poicked them out?
December 28th, 2006 at 6:18 pmMighty Aphrodite,
Any sort of empathy I may have had for you was eliminated, when you did the “botched joke” about your deceased child. You are at best sociopathic. Please leave the conversation to normal people, and leave all of us alone.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:19 pm#307…same lame Vietnam mentality. There are ways of dealing with terrorists besides starting a war to create more. Europe has been dealing with terrorists for decades. But instead of learning something from them, Bush wants to invade other countries, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, and create more terrorists. Then he’ll have to invade more countries, kill more innocent people, and create more terrorists, ad infinitum. Makes a lot of sense.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:22 pmPaul, according to the Wash. Post, the State Dept. and the CIA believe al Qaeda recruiting is up 200 to 300%. Where is it written that new recruits have to fight in Iraq.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:22 pmMighty A, remember the Camp David Accord that brought about peace between Israel and Egypt? That was on Carter’s watch. And that peace is still lasting today.
Imagine that. A sitting President able to forge a peace agreement between two warring nations, without having bomb one or the other of them back to the stone age. I guess diplomacy worked.
But then came Reagan, selling arms to Iran to fund an illegal war in central America…so much for diplomacy….now we just kill people.
This was my first post on yesterday’s ThinkFast, reposted here for your edification:
Ok…I just got in and haven’t read the comments…but I WANT TO FRIKKIN’ SCREAM!!!
Seven U.S. troops were killed in Iraq
I just spent all day piping at the funeral service for Cpl. Joshua Daniel Prickard, 20 years old, Killed in Iraq on December 19, 2006.
I WANT EVERY G*D TROLL ON THIS SITE THAT POSTS SUPPORTING BUSH’S WAR TO GO TO THE FUNERAL OF A FALLEN SOLDIER AND LOOK INTO THE EYES OF HIS OR HER MOTHER AS THEY HAND HER THE FLAG FROM HER SON’S OR DAUGHTERS COLD COFFIN.
now, if you’ll excuse me…I need some quiet time.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — December 27, 2006 @ 7:52 pm
Now, Mighty A. Why don’t you attend one of those funerals, and spout your bile to the mother after she receives her flag…. I doubt even you could assemble a jury that would convict her if she broke your nose.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:23 pmKrazny – I have never made a joke about my deceased child. Period. But the fact you would even think such a thing, says a great deal about you….and none of it’s good…..
December 28th, 2006 at 6:23 pmI’ve got to go, but, I would like to say, “Happy Holidays” to everyone here. I value your opinions and appreciate that you respond to my posts, even though I don’t agree with much. I wish you all a safe and prosperous New Year.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:29 pmI read an interpretation of Mr. Woodward’s interview with President Ford which was parsing words so as to indicate that President Ford was actually for the war in Iraq. I believe that is a disservice to the former President and an incorrect indication. Why try to put President Ford in middle of this mess in that way, at this time… Those who created this mess should clean it up without the help of smearing the image of such a decent man.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:29 pmOne of the first things Reagan did upon taking office was remove Carters solar panels from the roof of the Whitehouse. Heck of a job, Ronnie! As far as the mighty a-hole is concerned, I keep pointing out that she comes here to provoke and be annoying. Just review a few of her posts. The bile is just dripping off her chin. My advice is forgetaboutit!
December 28th, 2006 at 6:29 pmHappy Holidays to you too, Paul.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:31 pmI have never made a joke about my deceased child.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 28, 2006 @ 6:23 pm
I was ready for this. First you lied about your child, and then you lie about having lied -just like your Great (mis)Leader.
Not only you did make the joke, you defended it tooth and nail after you were called on it. You even enlisted another poster to defend you and your so-called joke.
Here is the original “joke”, in its garbled glory:
But a funny thing happened on her last birthday – I was outside gardening and two of my children came up. I had been crying and they could see my eyes were a mess. One of my sons said, †You know Mom, I know you’re sad because it’s our sister’s birthday…but maybe it’s better she died early – I mean what if she grew up and became a bank robber and was not allowed to go to heaven??†His sister just ahead of him, chimed in, “Or worse, Mom,…what if she grew up to be a DemoRAT???†I went on to tell them I was a recovering DemoRAT….Aren’t some kids just too precious????
Wishing you and yours a wonderful Easter!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 15, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
You can’t run away from what you wrote, Mitey Coprolite. It is there for everyone to see. You called it a “funny thing”. People can also scroll down to see your reaction after you were called on it, and how you stood by it.
You are one sociopathic, compulsive liar.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:32 pmI agree Gregor,
Anyone who would make such a statement is sick, and disturbed. It would explain a great deal of Mrs. MA’s behavior. MA my thinking you made such a joke says very little about me, except it indicates what a poor opinion I have of you. Please take you sick, elitist attitude, and do the world a favor and shove off.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:38 pm“Mighty A, remember the Camp David Accord that brought about peace between Israel and Egypt? That was on Carter’s watch. And that peace is still lasting today.” –
Comment by Braid Fairy
*****I’ll give you the Camp David Accord….That peace is still lasting because of $$$ – nothing more – nothing less.
“Now, Mighty A. Why don’t you attend one of those funerals, and spout your bile to the mother after she receives her flag…. I doubt even you could assemble a jury that would convict her if she broke your nose.” – BF
December 28th, 2006 at 6:54 pm*****And I doubt YOU could defend such a mother……in a court of law, I mean….
Gregor,
laughing my ass off about the coprolite.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:56 pmThanks for the link, Gregor. I’ve bookmarked it.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 15, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
That wasn’t a joke, huh? Well, I’ve got something special in mind for you. And it ain’t gonna be pretty. Think about that every time you look into a mirror. But you brought it on yourself.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go out and buy a black candle.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:56 pmKrazny, me too!!!
December 28th, 2006 at 6:59 pmYou are one sociopathic, compulsive liar.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
You should post that warm and fuzzy little dead kid story on every thread on which Hagette comments.
No actual parent could tell a story like that.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:59 pmMitey Coprolite?
Holy shit!
Heh.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:01 pm“Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go out and buy a black candle. ”
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
****Oooogah boooogah….don’t catch that kilt on fire…..
December 28th, 2006 at 7:03 pmGregor, as Homer would say,
December 28th, 2006 at 7:04 pmMmmm, coprolite!
I see Roger is still stuck in neo-speak bizarro world. Did you, Roger, attend Reagans funeral or just watch it on TV like the rest of the scummy mass’?
December 28th, 2006 at 7:07 pm****Oooogah boooogah….don’t catch that kilt on fire…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Try not to be frightened, Hagette.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:09 pmSaid the Anne Coulter regurgitate alike winner–
December 28th, 2006 at 7:10 pmSo you guys liked the “coprolite” nickname, eh?
I thought it was fitting, given the rubbish he posts everytime he is here. ;-)
December 28th, 2006 at 7:10 pmBut WHY let facts get in the way of the closed Prog mind….
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Or yours.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:11 pmZep,
I am still trying to figure out, what Harry Reid attending, or not attending has to do with the thread about how Gerald Ford didn’t support the Iraq war.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:11 pmZoo – I don’t wear kilts….
December 28th, 2006 at 7:12 pmZoo – I don’t wear kilts….
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Maybe you should — you know, air out your……whatever.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:14 pmKrazny – If Gerald Ford had no classified info, why should ANYONE care what he thought of the Iraq War? His suppositions were no more valid than yours or mine.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:15 pmGerald Ford was NOT privy to classified info…
And the nice folks over at PNAC and AEI were?
December 28th, 2006 at 7:15 pm“Maybe you should — you know, air out your……whatever. ”
Comment by Zooey
*****Spoken like a “lady” who is familiar with the results of poor hygiene and casual interludes…..
December 28th, 2006 at 7:18 pmI am still trying to figure out, what Harry Reid attending, or not attending has to do with the thread about how Gerald Ford didn’t support the Iraq war.
Comment by Krazny
Only a Troll knows for sure what they know, but don’t know, but think they do. Its a ugly abyss of spite not worth pondering =)
December 28th, 2006 at 7:21 pmKrazny – If Gerald Ford had no classified info, why should ANYONE care what he thought of the Iraq War? His suppositions were no more valid than yours or mine.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
I think MA has suppositions confused with suppositories.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:23 pmwhy should ANYONE care what he thought of the Iraq War?
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 28, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
Because it is interesting to contrast what a more able and capable president (which is to say, almost all previous presidents) would have done. Duh.
His suppositions were no more valid than yours or mine.
Did you read the article? Ford is not speculating on whether or not Hussein had WMD, but about the rationale, i.e. excuse, for the war.
And if you think your opinion is as valid as Krazny’s, then you are sorely mistaken; most of your “opinions” reveal a thin grasp on reality.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:24 pmSpoken like a “lady†who is familiar with the results of poor hygiene and casual interludes…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Aphrodite means what again?
According to Hesiod, she (Aphrodite) was born when Uranus (the father of the gods) was castrated by his son Cronus. Cronus threw the severed genitals into the ocean which began to churn and foam about them. From the aphros (”sea foam”) arose Aphrodite,
Really MA, your a riot!
December 28th, 2006 at 7:26 pm*****Spoken like a “lady†who is familiar with the results of poor hygiene and casual interludes…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
“Lady” — Hey, thanks for the upgrade.
Yeah, when I worked at the OB/GYN’s office, we
smelledsaw “ladies” like yourself all the time. Put us off taco dinners, let me tell you.Whatever you do, don’t flash that thing at anyone. Small children will be damaged for life, and pregnant women will miscarry.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:32 pm#364 – “….Did you read the article? Ford is not speculating on whether or not Hussein had WMD, but about the rationale, i.e. excuse, for the war.”
******Dear Gregrrrr – - So if Ford did not consider “whether or not Saddam had WMD’s” how much rationale went into the formulation of the opinion?
December 28th, 2006 at 7:35 pmOMFG!
I go away for a couple of days and the trolls are not only running amok, they are dissin’ my friends?!!?
Oh No They Didn’t!!!
(Channeling Miss Piggy)
December 28th, 2006 at 7:37 pm“Hhy -Yyahhhh!”
Hi true,
You know Hagette and I are dear friends from way back.
Bless her heart, he/she/it has declined significantly…
December 28th, 2006 at 7:40 pmI am still trying to figure out, what Harry Reid attending, or not attending [...]
Comment by Krazny — December 28, 2006 @ 7:11 pm
Plus, it’s not as if Sen Reid is going on a trip to the beach. He is in a group of senators on a Congressional trip to meet meet with presidents of a few SouthAmerican nations. The group also includes Republicans, by the way, but you wouldn’t know it because these trolls only mention Sen Reid.
Funny thing is meetings with presidents of other countries are called “junkets” by these rightwingers. Go figure.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:41 pmSo if Ford did not consider “whether or not Saddam had WMD’s†how much rationale went into the formulation of the opinion?
Talk about a moot point.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:41 pmTalk about a HAG, Zooey!!!
December 28th, 2006 at 7:43 pm;)
how much rationale went into the formulation of the opinion?
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 28, 2006 @ 7:35 pm
Once again, showing that you are not a lawyer.
In the interview, Ford does not seem interested in discussing the existence of the WMD, but on how the war was sold to the American public.
Surely even you can understand the difference between a stated motive and an actual reason.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:44 pmDamn.
Are these threads all we’re getting out of TP today?
December 28th, 2006 at 7:45 pmBTW, Zooey,
#370: Gross and Funny.
Only you could accomplish that…..
December 28th, 2006 at 7:46 pmTalk about a HAG, Zooey!!!
;)
Comment by trueblue
It doesn’t even wear kilts!
December 28th, 2006 at 7:46 pm*eyes rolling*
Hello, true. Hello, Zoo.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:47 pmHow are you, ladies?
you and kilts…….
:)
December 28th, 2006 at 7:48 pmBless her heart, he/she/it has declined significantly…
Comment by Zooey — December 28, 2006 @ 7:40 pm
Not to nitpick, but I think you meant decayed.
Hard to believe, I know, but it can happen even to Mighty. I don’t want to imagine what it will look like at the end ::shudder::
December 28th, 2006 at 7:49 pmGross and Funny.
Only you could accomplish that…..
Comment by trueblue
High praise, indeed, trueblue.
My niece and nephews call me their crudest Auntie.
**sniff** So proud….
December 28th, 2006 at 7:49 pmIn reponse to Zooey,
I wrote this on the third of three whole threads today!….
Well, Krazny,
How often has TP worked this week?
Didn’t you all go back to work the day after Christmas?
All the other sites I visit have gone back to work, except for TP.
They must be in the School Teachers’ Union…….
;)
Comment by trueblue — December 28, 2006 @ 7:41 pm
December 28th, 2006 at 7:50 pmHow are you, ladies?
Comment by Juan C
Again with the upgrade!? My request must have been pushed through headquarters…
I’m great, Juan! How are you?
December 28th, 2006 at 7:51 pmJuan!
Good Evening! How are you?
December 28th, 2006 at 7:51 pmColumbus Ohio is losing it’s Progressive talk station to a right wing line up. Please sign the petition and let them know what you think. http://www.ohiomajorityradio.com…ndex.php? page=1
December 28th, 2006 at 7:53 pmAll support is welcome but people signing from Columbus area have the biggest effect. Columbus zip codes 43215, 43217, 43214, 43228
You’re dismissed you idiot!
Comment by Puff Daddy
Soooo, Gregor…..you’ll be leaving now?
*snort*
December 28th, 2006 at 7:55 pmFine, we are all squished here without more threads.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:56 pm:P
Not to nitpick, but I think you meant decayed.
I agree. Decayed is the better word.
Hard to believe, I know, but it can happen even to Mighty. I don’t want to imagine what it will look like at the end ::shudder::
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I just don’t want to smell it. :P
Where is Haggie anyway?
December 28th, 2006 at 7:57 pmSo Pudd Daddy what is this plan of the current administration to create a 10 billion dollar FDR ‘new deal’ in Iraq then?
December 28th, 2006 at 7:58 pmDear Greggrrr – If you ever find yourself in the ufortunate position of needing a criminal defense attorney, don’t tell her that evidence is NOT important to YOU…
December 28th, 2006 at 7:59 pmI prefer to use jungle rot.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:01 pmSeems as though some posters picked up right where they left off, didn’t skip a beat. I am impressed.
It almost seems like this sentence could illustrate the atmosphere:
“I wouldn’t hate you so much if I didn’t care about you.”
Likely, I am projecting my own reality on the situation.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:01 pmI didn’t know there was anything besides a “B” xxx rated movie.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:03 pm“How often has TP worked this week? Didn’t you all go back to work the day after Christmas?” – trueblue
*******No, but I’m self-employed – but in true Prog fashion, the allergy to work must have kicked in….
December 28th, 2006 at 8:04 pmI didn’t know there was anything besides a “B†xxx rated movie.
Comment by ForTruth
I think it’s time for more internet research.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:07 pm*******No, but I’m self-employed – but in true Prog fashion, the allergy to work must have kicked in….
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Thanks for letting us know your schedule, Hagette. Are you going to be out and about town with the un-dead minis tomorrow? I’m gonna rob your house.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:09 pmPlease don’t use my snark on TP to make ANY of your points, Mighty Assbag.
No Offense.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:09 pmJust haven’t liked you for about a year and 1/2 now….
and I know the feeling is mutual. (Hell, you don’t like humankind.)
I think it’s time for more internet research.
Comment by Zooey
I will get right on that.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:11 pmFine, we are all squished here without more threads.
:P
Comment by Juan C
It’s all cuddly and cozy, don’t you think?
December 28th, 2006 at 8:12 pmYou have no moral authority. You support Terrorists, Marxists and Nazis. You’re dismissed you idiot!
Comment by Puff Daddy
Dismissed from what?
December 28th, 2006 at 8:12 pmtesting the TP filter
December 28th, 2006 at 8:12 pmThat is so totally Mighty Afrodighty, she thinks I hate the Jews. I just see both sides. I think we should keep Isreal, as long as they obey the prog wishes.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:17 pmIt’s all cuddly and cozy, don’t you think?
Comment by Zooey
It’s actually a bit smashed together in here. Someone’s ass keeps rubbing against me.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:20 pmComment by trueblue — December 28, 2006 @ 7:41 pm
Hey! I resemble that remark!
December 28th, 2006 at 8:20 pm“Just haven’t liked you for about a year and 1/2 now….
and I know the feeling is mutual. ” –
*****Dear trueblu – What did you do – go to crybaby school with TerryTurtle?? I should care that you don’t like me? You are too precious! I don’t like or dislike you – I simply disagree with you 96% of the time….don’t worry, I have a Kucinich/Obama/Clinton loving sister-in-law who takes disagreements personally, too….
December 28th, 2006 at 8:21 pmGregor,
I notice that mighty a*shole has had absolutely nothing to say about you calling her on her bullsh*t about her dead offspring.
I also had to laugh about her actually having the nerve to comment on someone’s loose morals when she sucks neo-con d*ck for a living!!:-)
December 28th, 2006 at 8:21 pmI only meant that teachers are off this entire week, BnF. :)
I would never mean any disrespect, even to teachers.
It was used to illustrate the fact that TP has been showing up ~ 10:30 – 2:00 these past few days.
Plus, the Miss Piggy chop extended to you as well.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:25 pmHow dare they talk to you that way? D*ckheads.
oops… did I let that slip???
Someone’s ass keeps rubbing against me.
Comment by ForTruth
Sorry! Gosh…
December 28th, 2006 at 8:28 pmNo actual parent could tell a story like that.
Comment by Zooey — December 28, 2006 @ 6:59 pm
I’m not a parent and it offended me then as much as it still does now.
The fact that, after that, he continues to show up here where he is greatly disliked by everyone demostrates just how deep his mental illnesses run.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:28 pmSorry! Gosh…
Comment by Zooey
That was yours?
December 28th, 2006 at 8:28 pmGregor,
I notice that mighty a*shole has had absolutely nothing to say about you calling her on her bullsh*t about her dead offspring.
Comment by not impressed with the U.S.
She doesn’t have any.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:28 pmShe’s a liar, of the worst kind.
Karma.
She’s not sorry, For Truth!
December 28th, 2006 at 8:30 pm;)
It’s all cuddly and cozy, don’t you think?
Comment by Zooey
I dont want to get into that. :O
December 28th, 2006 at 8:31 pmShe’s not sorry, For Truth!
;)
Comment by trueblue
She’s not sorry? Oh yeah? What else did she say?
December 28th, 2006 at 8:32 pmI don’t know much about the whole MA/dead kids story, I don’t think I want to know.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:33 pmShhh…ForTruth likes to do internet research on porn…I think it’s a specialty of his. :)
Comment by Zooey
I do prefer the actors to at least be somewhat convincing that they care, just a little.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:34 pmShe’s not sorry, For Truth!
;)
Comment by trueblue
She’s not sorry? Oh yeah? What else did she say?
Comment by ForTruth
Can’t say…..
icks-nay on the ooey-zay….
December 28th, 2006 at 8:41 pm;) ;) ;)
ForTruth,
If you change your mind, the cute little story about MA’s alleged kids is at #326. It’s sick.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:43 pmicks-nay on the ooey-zay….
;) ;) ;)
Comment by trueblue
Oh my god…. *eyes rolling*
What? You don’t rub your butt on guys in a crowd? Am I the only one?
December 28th, 2006 at 8:50 pmI don’t have any links, those went with my laptop’s cpu. (it lasted through the Bar exam…after that, it’s cpu was fried.)
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
That’s what the Bar exam does to you — it fries your brain!
That’s why you have to pass the first time… :)
December 28th, 2006 at 8:51 pmNot to chase anyone off, but I keep meaning to mention there’s fresh thread above.
December 28th, 2006 at 8:52 pmI would never mean any disrespect, even to teachers.
Comment by trueblue — December 28, 2006 @ 8:25 pm
I know. I’ve been such a sloth the last two weeks. Sitting around in my kilt, checking out ThinkProgress to slay the occasional troll…taking an extension class in bilingual education….when I finish that, I’ll be a cunning linguist. Only 9 more class hours to go, then the inevitable homework….
December 28th, 2006 at 8:53 pmicks-nay on the ooey-zay….
;) ;) ;)
Comment by trueblue
Oh my god…. *eyes rolling*
What? You don’t rub your butt on guys in a crowd? Am I the only one?
Comment by Zooey
Yes.
Yes you are.
:) :) :) :)
….yep… feelin’ feisty tonight!….
December 28th, 2006 at 8:54 pmYou don’t rub your butt on guys in a crowd?
Comment by Zooey
Yeah, true, come on. Lighten up. :)
December 28th, 2006 at 8:55 pmI’ll be a cunning linguist.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
For shame!!!!!!!
You do have too much time on your hands!
;)
December 28th, 2006 at 8:56 pmSitting around in my kilt…
Nice. :)
…checking out ThinkProgress to slay the occasional troll…
Well done.
…taking an extension class in bilingual education….when I finish that, I’ll be a cunning linguist….
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Oooo-kay!
Heh.
December 28th, 2006 at 9:00 pmComment by unbelievable — December 28, 2006 @ 8:28 pm
I read your response, unbelievable. If I were posting back then, I would have written, “Well said!”
I’ve long realized MA was demented, but that went beyond all bounds of decency. And especially it’s response to you.
December 28th, 2006 at 9:01 pmYeah, true, come on. Lighten up. :)
Comment by Juan C
Juan, Zooey,
Have you not noticed the halo surrounding me???
Never, ever, ever…….
;)
December 28th, 2006 at 9:02 pmI hear a guy can really breathe in a kilt. That fresh feeling.
December 28th, 2006 at 9:11 pmNever, ever, ever…….
;)
Comment by trueblue
Aww come on, true!! Just try it once. There must be crowded anchor stores or fish net repair stations on Cape Cod…
Out here it’s county fairs — always good for butt rubbing. :-D
December 28th, 2006 at 9:11 pmI hear a guy can really breathe in a kilt. That fresh feeling.
Comment by ForTruth
Yeah…..
December 28th, 2006 at 9:15 pm**eyes glazing over**
Zoo – have you travelled through the Continental terminal of Newark airport anytime in this December?
December 28th, 2006 at 9:17 pmJuan,
A train hit a bus just north of Mexico City today —
that’s awful…..
Any survivors?
December 28th, 2006 at 9:17 pmZoo – have you travelled through the Continental terminal of Newark airport anytime in this December?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle
That’s a good one. Moscow, Idaho. Heh.
December 28th, 2006 at 9:18 pmZoo – have you travelled through the Continental terminal of Newark airport anytime in this December?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle
Hot damn, I wish!!
But I was in a Costco in Washington State… :)
December 28th, 2006 at 9:19 pmNothing like that where I am, Zooey.
Just friggin’ souvenier shops. “Cape Cod” enblazoned on every damned piece of clothing.
Hate It.
A lot of places are closing down until next May / June.
No wonder there are tons of alcoholics here…..
(grrrrrrr. sorry…. )
December 28th, 2006 at 9:21 pmWell I guess that means there is phantom butt rubber haunting the Garden State, but then since it was an airport, she could be anywhere by now…
December 28th, 2006 at 9:23 pmThat’s a good one. Moscow, Idaho. Heh.
Comment by ForTruth
Go ahead, party pooper! Remind me how far away I am from Newark airport!
Geez!
December 28th, 2006 at 9:25 pmIsn’t New Jersey for lovers anyway?
December 28th, 2006 at 9:27 pmWell I guess that means there is phantom butt rubber haunting the Garden State, but then since it was an airport, she could be anywhere by now…
Comment by TerrytheTurtle
It was trueblue. She’ll deny it here, but I learned the art of butt-rubbing in a crowd from her.
Yep.
December 28th, 2006 at 9:27 pmIt was trueblue. She’ll deny it here, but I learned the art of butt-rubbing in a crowd from her.
Yep.
Comment by Zooey
Ok. I admit it. Zooey learned it from me.
December 28th, 2006 at 9:34 pmThere were many things I taught Zooey.
…don’t you remember, dear?….
:):):):):)
Gotcha!
December 28th, 2006 at 9:35 pmThere were many things I taught Zooey.
…don’t you remember, dear?….
Comment by trueblue
Oh yeah, chugging beer topless at frat parties
and
Shoplifting condoms.
Thanks, true!
December 28th, 2006 at 9:38 pmDAMN!
Just when I think I got you…!!!
I should know better than to try and out-do you.
It’s like a bb gun going up against a Sherman Tank!
December 28th, 2006 at 9:43 pmWow. I had to step away from my PC for a few hours and I see Mitey Coprolite is making more friends. He’s so endearing, indeed.
don’t tell her that evidence is NOT important to YOU…
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 28, 2006 @ 7:59 pm
Once more, showing that, should anyone believe you are a lawyer, they’d need to be brain dead.
I didn’t say *I* don’t value evidence. I said that -in the article- Ford seems less concerned with whether or not Hussein actually had WMD than how the occupation was sold to the American people. I can type it even slower if I am leaving you behind with this one.
You still haven’t read the article, have you?
December 28th, 2006 at 9:48 pmI also had to laugh about her actually having the nerve to comment on someone’s loose morals[...]
Comment by not impressed with the U.S. — December 28, 2006 @ 8:21 pm
You should read his claptrap about others being elitists while she touts her own life-long private school education. Or when she calls others dishonest, even as he had to make up a biography for himself (fake children, etc.).
Double-standards never end with Mitey Coprolite.
December 28th, 2006 at 9:50 pmDear Puff – Ahmidinejead and David Duke belong together.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 28, 2006 @ 8:14 pm
Mitey, your reply to Puff is mighty suspicious: He has already been shown as a name-changing troll. Why would you reply to someone who is clearly not in full control of his mental faculties? Unless, that is, you are Puff Daddy/mandolin/Akbar/Nasty Nas.
That would explain a few things, come to think of it…
December 28th, 2006 at 9:55 pmIt’s like a bb gun going up against a Sherman Tank!
Comment by trueblue
Squirt gun….I don’t want you shooting your eye out!
Heh.
December 28th, 2006 at 10:11 pmFinally, Zooey, yes -maybe I should post that dead child story in every thread Mitey shows up. That way new people to the blog will know who they ar edealing with.
Mitey Afrodite, such a sorry excuse of a human being.
December 28th, 2006 at 10:13 pmZooey you are frikin hilarious.
December 28th, 2006 at 10:15 pmA bit like the ‘best of Iri’ we had going for a while…sounds good to me.
December 28th, 2006 at 10:17 pmZooey you are frikin hilarious.
Comment by ForTruth
I don’t know why they wouldn’t let me into clown college….
December 28th, 2006 at 10:20 pmThat way new people to the blog will know who they ar edealing with.
Mitey Afrodite, such a sorry excuse of a human being.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
It has driven off trolls before. If Hagette insists on being here and spouting off in it’s assholierthanthou manner, we can let people know just exactly what it’s capable of.
I wouldn’t do it for every troll, but this one represents itself as something it’s not, and should be exposed.
December 28th, 2006 at 10:26 pmZooey,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I am really not overly territorial when it comes to trolls.
We can all share in the whack-a-troll fun ;-)
December 28th, 2006 at 11:07 pm(thus sayeth the man in the kilt, giving a new meaning to the term ‘backdraft’)
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
I’ll wish for a sand storm….kilt man.
Fair warning… :)
December 28th, 2006 at 11:08 pmGood thing Zooey is on our side, she can come up with some material.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:12 pmA sand storm in Idaho?
December 28th, 2006 at 11:13 pmA sand storm in Idaho?
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Hell yeah! Southern Idaho! We have everything here.
If you want to stay there, I’ll just hire a guy with a sandblaster….and a fan.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:18 pmI prefer protecting our freedoms and lifestyle and reducing our exposure to terrorism, even if makes it more difficult to elicit sympathetic feelings from others.
Comment by paul — December 28, 2006 @ 5:53 pm
We are in Iraq protecting the Iraqis. Our soldiers are doing nothing to protect us. “Fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them here,” eh? Only an ass would believe that. You think all the terrorists capable of carrying out an attack on the U.S. are in, or heading to, Iraq?
Reducing our exposure to terrorism. Pardon me while I laugh. Seems I recently read that our actions in the Middle East has increased the number of terrorists.
You want to reduce your exposure to terrorism? Then become a hermit and stay home for the rest of your life, and stock up on plastic sheeting and duct tape. Plan you trips to the store accordingly…I’d suggest going grocery shopping one day out of a month, and clothes shopping another day. And go after dark…makes it harder for the terrorists to see you.
Do all your banking and bill-paying via the Internet, and get your car washed, serviced, and filled up with gas while getting food or clothes; hell, do it all at one store…Wal-Mart… and swing by the touch-free car wash on the way home. Also cut out seeing movies at the local cinema and eat out only by going to restaurants with a drive-through. Blockbuster.com has a great mail order movie option.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:29 pmWC,
You are too funny.
I’m sure Paul will find your suggestions helpful.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:38 pmI’m sure Paul will find your suggestions helpful.
Comment by Zooey — December 28, 2006 @ 11:38 pm
Me, too. I hope Paul isn’t still too confused by the situations in the past. Remember Bush raising the terror threat level and then getting on TV and telling America to get out and go shopping? I believe Roger Moore in F/911 pointed this out quite eloquently.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:58 pmDamn. Michael Moore. I think there’s a subliminal message embedded here on TP that’s telling me to go see the new James Bond movie.
December 29th, 2006 at 12:01 amA Quark by any other name is still a Quark. Love the ode to MA.
December 29th, 2006 at 12:39 amThere once was a troll called Aphrodite,
December 29th, 2006 at 1:01 amWho posed as a lawyer most erudite,
She put on such airs,
In posts full of errs,
Until she at last turned to Coprolite.
508, maybe it was the corbomite I used.
December 29th, 2006 at 1:14 amoops, there goes another 9/11 post. (505 – pffft.)
December 29th, 2006 at 1:15 amHang on one minute…
Now Aphro claims to be a lawyer right?
Now, suddenly, I see it…
She is one of those many schmucks who studied legal degrees only to go nowhere in the field of law because they lack any real legal ability, or interest aside from the TV inspired glamour.
She studied it purely out of wanting to be Ally McBeal, a fictional lawyer who throughout the series’ storyline suffered from anorexia induced hallucinations.
That would explain how she is now stuck in a one person practice (A decent lawyer tends to be in a partnership) how she always has so much time to post on these threads (In a partnership there are still reasonably set working hours) and how she manages to remain so detached from reality (She just doesn’t eat.)
December 29th, 2006 at 2:33 amoops, there goes another 9/11 post. (505 – pffft.)
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — December 29, 2006 @ 1:15 am
Was that mine? Damn it. I spent 30 minutes typing that out.
December 29th, 2006 at 9:19 amBriseadh na Faire
Sure, sometimes a sole practitioner is who you want, but when you are talking about something like criminal defence…
You want a partnership. Not a big partnership, those are as bad as the small guys unless you are super-rich, no you want a partner in a small to medium sized firm.
December 29th, 2006 at 9:47 amBruce, or Perry Mason. He was a solo practicioner…or Matlock….
:-)
What gets me are those “defense lawyers” on the latest crime shows…silently sitting in the interrogation room while their client keeps on talking and talking and talking and confessing….
December 29th, 2006 at 10:27 amCool. Bruce Gorton is a smart guy, Briseadh na Faire. I believe I said something similar… :)
I know of a guy here in town who does only patent law, he’s the only one around here. It’s a very specialized field. He’s a rich dude.
Good morning!
December 29th, 2006 at 10:32 amDry as a popcorn fart.
Good one.
December 29th, 2006 at 10:43 amI should know by now not to eat my cereal and read this shit…
December 29th, 2006 at 10:56 amThis has to be more attention than the subject of G.Ford was given in his entire 2 years in office. THAT is funny.
December 29th, 2006 at 2:10 pm#515 – “….That would explain how she is now stuck in a one person practice (A decent lawyer tends to be in a partnership)….”
Comment by Bruce Gorton
*******Dear Bruce, I would have thought your time was so valuable that you might have better things to do than discuss me. Apparently not.
December 29th, 2006 at 6:14 pmYou are correct, I do not have partners but employ several associates. Excellent defense attorneys utilize the resources of excellent investigators….as Braid Fairy can surely attest….
Hey Mighty Moron; As your New Year resolution, name “our friends and allies who did not desert us during our civil war”
December 29th, 2006 at 6:23 pm#505 Bnf: snark
December 29th, 2006 at 6:27 pmMA is
December 29th, 2006 at 8:43 pma man, pretending to be a woman, pretending to be a lawyer, pretending to be a parent of a deceased child, pretending to have other children making anti-Democratic jokes regarding said dead child
Nice.
Your lying $hit was called out yesterday, to which you had no defense, to which you left or changed the subject.
Nice.
MA. Fraud. Synonymous!
Testing
December 30th, 2006 at 2:58 amAphro
You claim to be a parent, yet you make jokes about how it was better your child died then took a differing political stance to you, you claim to be a Jewess, yet you post after six on a Friday, you claim to be a lawyer, yet your legal knowledge has repeatedly been shown lacking, you claim to be against gays for their “sluttish” behaviour (While naming yourself after a movie about a prostitute) and yet when they want to dedicate themselves to a monogamous relationship enforceable by law you claim it is an abomination.
You are a great big mess of contradictions, so sorting out just what the heck your online persona is supposed to be is one heck of a puzzle. It is a time waster, I’ll agree, but trying to figure out the common thread through just how bad a liar you are, is amusing if nothing else.
December 30th, 2006 at 3:08 amBruce incorrectly notes, “You claim to be a parent, yet you make jokes about how it was better your child died then took a differing political stance to you, …”
*******Bruce, apparently reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit. I made NO such “joke” about my deceased daughter. I simply relayed the sweet attempt of a little boy to comfort his crying mother – me.
My religious observations are none of your business – as your atheist/agnostic/religious beliefs are none of mine.
My notations on Padilla v. US (re: lack of due process, “enemy combatant” status, and inaccessibility of Padilla’s legal counsel – complete with arguments and amicus brief filings) may have been deleted due to length.
If trying to figure out the exact personnas of folks on the internet is your singular form of entertainment, you might wish to get out a bit more – your closet sounds a tad claustrophobic….
Happy New Year!!!
December 30th, 2006 at 1:05 pmTesting…some of my posts have not been appearing on other threads. Trying this one.
December 30th, 2006 at 10:56 pmben kingsley biography
Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts..
March 17th, 2008 at 4:54 ambilly bob thornton movies
Man i just love your blog, keep the cool posts comin..
March 17th, 2008 at 7:56 amAdult Baby Diaper Cover
Your blog makes very interesting reading. I’m sure others will think so too I look forward to reading their comments.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:28 amRalph Wiggum
Wow! This was a really enlightening article.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:11 pmSusan
I could not believe the amount of quality material on this site. The site is extremely eyecatching and pulls the reader straight it, the articles are great quality and are very professionally written. I have seen too many of these sites where it looks…
March 20th, 2008 at 2:49 amMaud
People are as happy as they make up their minds to be.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pmPaid Surveys Online – How Easy Is It To Make Money From Them?
Paid surveys are being promoted as an easy way to make money online. Some ads promise you up to $250 per hour for taking paid surveys. Are they realistic? Can one really expect to earn that much money from online paid surveys? Let us find out the answe…
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:47 amSkin Care Award Winners
Please keep these excellent posts coming.
March 22nd, 2008 at 5:12 pmSex Gay Sex Anime Sex
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 23rd, 2008 at 4:49 pmsouth carolina college football recruiting
Your site regarding %TITLE% looks very interesting to me. I found it doing a search for %KEYWORD%.
March 25th, 2008 at 1:21 amPayday Loans
Superior aphonic pay day loan for Lawyers
March 26th, 2008 at 10:27 pmAnimal Sex Free Animal Sex Stories Sex With Dogs
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 1st, 2008 at 8:06 pmVera
Ordinary people believe only in the possible. Extraordinary people visualize not what is possible or probable, but rather what is impossible. And by visualizing the impossible, they begin to see it as possible.
April 7th, 2008 at 6:25 pmbest ways to get out of debt in north carolina
April 8th, 2008 at 9:02 amSex Free Sex Pictures Office Sex
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 8th, 2008 at 9:26 pmretaining a lawyer
The point of this post is not to deter people from being lawyers or scare the daylights out of them. Rather, it aims to prepare aspiring lawyers for what lies ahead of them in the real world of the law. The more prepared you are, the better the oppor…
April 11th, 2008 at 1:17 amPee Female Pee Pee Hole
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 11th, 2008 at 1:52 amCell Phone Comparison Shopping
Thanks for this post!
April 11th, 2008 at 4:31 amMilf Milf Ass Lesbian Milf
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 13th, 2008 at 2:20 am