Brokaw: Hussein Execution ‘Resembled The Worst Kind Of Nightmare Out Of The Old American West’
Brokaw: Hussein Execution ‘Resembled The Worst Kind Of Nightmare Out Of The Old American West’
Former NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw, who delivered a eulogy at President Gerald Ford’s funeral today, appeared this morning on the Don Imus radio show. Brokaw agreed with Imus that it is “difficult to imagine” how the execution of Saddam Hussein “could have turned out worse.”
“[W]e portray ourselves around the world as the champions of democracy and the rule of law,” Brokaw said, yet Hussein’s execution “resembled the worst kind of nightmare out of the old American West.” As a result, Hussein, who “had disappeared, in effect, as some kind of a symbol over there, suddenly becomes a martyr.” Watch it:
Full transcript:
IMUS: Could we have a worse turn of events with the Saddam Hussein video and all that?
BROKAW: No, it’s — you know, as we portray ourselves around the world as the champions of democracy and the rule of law — first of all, that began to unravel in the eyes of a lot of people in that part of world with Abu Ghraib and the great cruelties and indignities that were imposed on people there. The debate goes on here about Guantanamo and about access to people’s private records. And then to say that we are going to install in Iraq a judicial system and a democratic form of government and have something that resembled the worst kind of nightmare out of the old American West. Not much dignity. He was, he was a god awful man and he did have a trial, but not have control of the execution, and to have it really just fuel more sectarian violence at a time when we are trying to dampen that is not helpful, which is an understatement.
IMUS: Well, I guess the New York Times reported and I was also talking to Richard about that the United States apparently unsuccessfully prevailed about Maliki to delay this.
BROKAW: Yep.
IMUS: I wonder, I wonder why he refused? I mean…
BROKAW: I honestly don’t know either. But Saddam Hussein who had disappeared, in effect, as some kind of a symbol over there, suddenly becomes a martyr. He was a terrible tyrant who was responsible for an untold number of deaths, you know, waged his own jihad against the Shiite in that country, especially in the south following Operation Desert Storm in the early 1990s, and now he’s able to stand up there with the hood off and invoke prayer and even invoke the Palestinians, and go out in the eyes of his people at least as a martyr.
IMUS: I mean, it’s difficult to imagine how this could have turned out worse.
BROKAW: No, it is pretty difficult to imagine, and it’s, you know, just as the military commanders and the political people who are trying to run the war think that they’ve got something quieted over in one front, it pops up in another.
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Martyr.
The word is already being used in news stories coming out of Baghdad.
Way to chymp it, W.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:25 pmJeebus - How do you screw up an execution? The whole world is watching.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:32 pmI didn’t watch the FOX version, I watched the CNN version, which stopped right before they killed him.
I thought it was chaotic, creepy, and it just didn’t sit right. It was horrible. The Vatican condemned it.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:34 pmBrokaw: Hussein Execution ‘Resembled The Worst Kind Of Nightmare Out Of The Old American West’
Of course it did.
Three words.
Shock and Awe.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:34 pmAsk Florida how to screw up an execution.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:34 pmLife in prison was too dangerous. Saddam could spill the beans on all the not-so-savory things Bush Sr, Jr, and Reagan did to help him.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:35 pmChalk up another screw-up for W. The man cannot do anything right.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:36 pmAnd what has changed for the Iraqi people from the day before Saddam was hanged to the day after? Did killing Saddam bring back any of the dead? Was Saddam a danger to anyone while he was locked away in his prison cell?
To me, this execution was just another sad example of man’s inhumanity to man. I will not weep for this man’s death, but I certainly will not rejoice. People have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:36 pm#1 - That’s the only word to describe Saddam now.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:37 pmHere’s a word to describe what will happen next: Bloodbath.
Parrotlover,
I was hopful he would have spilled the beans. He knew too much.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:39 pmHe has nice opinions about Israel-based foreign policy that Brokaw.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:40 pmThe people who hanged Saddam were wearing civilian clothes and black hoods…and they were chanting ‘Muqtada, Muqtada,Shiate spiritual leader,who America listed him as ‘wanted’ to face criminal charges’ as symbolism of their victory over the Sunnis. Hanging was done in the first day of religious holiday Eid AL-Adha which according to Iraqi Constitution itself bans death punishment on religious days. If Iraqi Prime Minister Al-Maliki and Bush were looking to unite Iraq and heal the wounds ….the scenes of hanging Saddam did excatly the opposite.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:40 pmThere once was a guy who would become dictator. The US helped him too. He really thought life was good. He took examples from the US on how to do things. Then one day the US decided to remove him and kill him.
The end.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:40 pmHanging was done in the first day of religious holiday Eid AL-Adha which according to Iraqi Constitution itself bans death punishment on religious days.
I could be wrong about this (and apologies if I am), but my understanding was that the holy day “officially” began at sunrise that calendar day, and that the execution took place within the last hour before sunrise. So, technically, it may not have fallen on one of their holy days. (Though how it makes it okay to kill someone escapes me.) But I could be mistaken about any of that.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:44 pmBush Wild West Flashback:
“There’s an old poster out west, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive.’”
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:44 pmSo we have the this insanely idiotic execution of Saddam and bush will be announcing an escalation of troops in Iraq. Are they doing this crap on purpose to achieve total choas or are they really this stupid?
Its crazy how the bush administration is now saying they were asking them to handle the execution in a sensitive manner and wrned them to do it right. So if there was a concern why did we hand a military prisoner over to the Iraqis knowing that he would be executed even though that goes against international law?
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:45 pmdlet sez:
Exactly, dlet. No one is this stupid. This was designed specifically to foment unrest and further inflame the Iraqi conflict. This has Rove’s bloody handprints all over it.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:48 pm#16 - Uh, really this stupid…
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:49 pmMy best friend used to live in Kuwait. Once he sent me a picture from the front page of the newspaper showing two guys hanging by ropes from the neck. They were drug smugglers, and their hangings were right there on the front page.
Hard to imagine how Saddam’s execution could have been worse? It could have been broadcast live on TV, like Ceaucescu. They could have dragged his body through the streets, people spitting on and tearing at the corpse.
This looks bad to us, but for the standards of the region, it was a model of due process. He should have been tried by an international body in The Hague and sentenced to life in prison. But what he got could have been much worse — he’s lucky the Americans got him and not the Mahdi army, who would have hung his torched corpse from a bridge.
My friend’s wife grew up in Ceaucescu’s Romania and lived in Kuwait during the first war. He said she “seemed genuinely pleased” by the execution.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:50 pmWhy does Tom Brokaw hate freedom so much?
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:56 pmI am not on board with the argument that the execution was done before the holiday began, or because Maliki wanted to demonstrate his authority, or whatver — Hussein was in US custody until a very short time before the hanging — Bush&Co wanted him hanged ASAP because the longer he remained alive, the more risk there was to more of the truth of our history with him being remembered by the American public.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:58 pmI hate capital punishment.
I also hate Saddam.
But my principles come before my hatred for one man. I shudder at this whole ordeal.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:59 pmExactly, dlet. No one is this stupid. This was designed specifically to foment unrest and further inflame the Iraqi conflict. This has Rove’s bloody handprints all over it.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
If anyone thought you were out to lunch, this comment clinches it. Rove’s bloody handprints all over Saddam’s execution, what a cospiracy theory whack job you are!
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:59 pmOnly GWB could manage to turn a dispicable dictator and mass murderer into a sympathetic figure. Can this man do nothing right??? We have two more years of this nightmare to look forward to!
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:59 pmBush&Co wanted him hanged ASAP because the longer he remained alive, the more risk there was to more of the truth of our history with him being remembered by the American public.
Comment by Marie
Where do you get this stuff?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:00 pmfrankley I was reminded of the lynchings in the deep south, don’t get me wrong SH was not a nice charecter, but it still looked like a lynching and the world saw it and it’s firmly at americas doorstep.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:04 pm#26 - “….remembered by the American public.”Comment by Marie
“Where do you get this stuff?” - 20wordsorless
*******Dear 20 - She makes it up. (And having paranoid, extreme hatred for the US doesn’t hurt her script writing, either….)
Tooodles….
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:05 pm#8
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:08 pmWayne,
the only information that I know about the timing of the execution and Eid AL-Adha is that the Sunnis start to observe this holiday the day before the Shi’ites.
The way we should measure the hanging of Saddam should be linked to the safety of our troops and the stability of Iraq as whole. Did hanging Saddam help us, or the hanging created more trouble for us in Iraq and the region and created more symbolism that we will fight for years to come as a result.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:08 pm#26
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:08 pmthey are called books, 20words… perhaps youve heard of them
“….don’t get me wrong SH was not a nice charecter” Comment by blade
*******GOOD of you to NOTICE!…..Now get back to apologizing to the world…..Psssst…..did you come up with the South/lunching hyperbole ALL by yourself?
Later……
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:09 pm20wordsorless sez:
OK, 20wordsorless, what’s your explanation? This administration somehow turned an almost universally despised despot and mass-murderer into a martyr by accident?
If you think your heroes are that stupid how stupid does that make you for continuing to defend them, hmm?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:10 pm[…] Tom Brokaw on the Don Imus radio show this morning: …we portray ourselves around the world as the champions of democracy and the rule of law — first of all, that began to unravel in the eyes of a lot of people in that part of world with Abu Ghraib and the great cruelties and indignities that were imposed on people there. The debate goes on here about Guantanamo and about access to people’s private records. And then to say that we are going to install in Iraq a judicial system and a democratic form of government and have something that resembled the worst kind of nightmare out of the old American West. Not much dignity. He was, he was a god awful man and he did have a trial, but not have control of the execution, and to have it really just fuel more sectarian violence at a time when we are trying to dampen that is not helpful, which is an understatement… […]
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:13 pmMA & Wordless,
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:14 pmSpeaking of making stuff up, how about the reason we went into this hell hole?
Oh wait, reality isn’t what you two live in.
The Lynching was condemned throughout the World ( Literally Every country) America has lost total respect ( The final Nail in Bushes coffin), The Trial was a illegal court set up By Bremner , To An Actual International warcrime , done on the most Holi Day in the Islam Calender which started 12 pm the night before ,
The world has loft any faith in the USA and condemns It Full stop .
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:17 pmAmericans — and indeed the world — deserve better than this House of Shams. Bush was placed into office via a sham decision after a sham election. He declared a war via the use of sham intelligence. He has instituted sham policies, based on sham “science” and the sham “advice” of lobbyists and corporate interests disguised as consultants. He has given the American people sham “facts” about policies both foreign and domestic, and now he has killed Saddam Hussein in the wake of a sham trial.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:19 pmZimzone,
I’ve already asked 20wordsorless that question repeatedly. His response is that he refuses to ‘have that silly debate with me’ on what is, according to him, ‘no longer the issue’.
Further attempts to engage him in debate have been met with only a panicky silence.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:20 pmIdiots like 20words and MA always like to use the atrocities of America’s enemies to justify American atrocities.
We’re Americans, we’re supposed to be BETTER than them. That’s what we keep telling the world, anyway.
The Cheney Administration has ceded the moral high ground in order to make more money providing weapons to those fighting down in the valley.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:21 pmInternational Criminal Court (ICC), but threatening the use of military force in the event that any American national is tried before it.
( Just try it Bush I’ll start Taking out American Tourist faster than you can Invade Rome)
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:24 pmHI Mighty Aphrodite, got any new dead baby jokes for us you sick bitch?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:24 pmDid a mighty breeze just blow through the blogosphere?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:27 pmPeople have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
Amen
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:27 pmKrazy-b*^ch - No…..I have some dead Saddam jokes….pictures, too.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:29 pmOne thing that I haven’t seen addressed yet.
Why didn’t the US make Saddam’s body just disappear? They’ve already done this in other situations.
How is this site NOT going to end up being a shrine for Saddam’s supporters?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:29 pm#25 Nick Berg was killed by criminals Sadaam was killed by the governnment. Get the picture? The problem with Sadaams death is not his actual death but rather the clumsy manner in which it was carried out. It appeared to be an amatuer lynching by a highly partisan group and the mannner of the execution makes Sadaam appear dignified and composed while his executioners look manic and crazed. But then again the right wing does like their partisanship and they do love their executions to be venngeful so I fully understand your view.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:30 pmThere once was a guy who would become dictator. The US helped him too. He really thought life was good. He took examples from the US on how to do things. Then one day the US decided to remove him and kill him.
Comment by ForTruth — January 2, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
Yep. Sickening.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:30 pm“People have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.”
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
*******Please share that thought with Islamic jihadists…..
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:30 pmBut go ahead - try to Ghandi-ize them……your intentions are what count….
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
There’s a reason Gandhi was loved, famous and will be revered throughout history - because he was a man of conscience who valued peace, equality for all, and respect.
It’s the exact opposite of how people feel about you and why no one will ever remember you for anything positive.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:32 pmMA - it has been proven that they knew the WMD argument was false. Only dense idiots still believe that Cheney/Bush really thought he still had WMDs.
The “rest of the world” only believed what Cheney and bush told them.
THERE WAS NO RATIONALE FOR INVADING IRAQ. PERIOD.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:32 pmAnd here I thought it was President Bush who ordered the weapons inspectors to leave Iraq before they finished concluding that he didn’t have any WMD. I must not be watching Fox News enough to get that one wrong.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:33 pm/sarcasm off
The trolls who post here do not read, they do not think, they do not function but for what their leaders tell them.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:33 pmIf Fox says it, or any member of Bush&Co says so, then it is their truth -they question not, they simply believe.
#
Krazy-b*^ch - No…..I have some dead Saddam jokes….pictures, too.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:29 pm
Lose it much?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:33 pmShe makes it up.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
No, that would be YOU who makes crap up.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:34 pmSpeaking of deaf ears - the US went into Iraq because BUSH and CHENEY and RUMMY wanted to. They ‘determined’ that Saddam had WMD’s. But as we all know, the FIXED the intelligence to show what they wanted to show - not the facts. But deaf ears don’t matter when your mind is blinded.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:34 pmTom Brokaw and Don Imus missed the larger point which ThinkProgress could have clarified but dropped the ball on:
The trial and the sentence were conducted entirely under Iraq law. Any comparison of Saddam’s sentence of death by hanging with our system of laws is completely superfluous and off-base.
Any person who thinks or states that “We’re Americans, we’re supposed to be BETTER than them. That’s what we keep telling the world, anyway” has MISSED THE POINT.
If you want to complain, tell Tom Brokaw to bitch at the Iraq system, not ours. We don’t hang people for crimes against humanity.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:35 pm( Just try it Bush I’ll start Taking out American Tourist faster than you can Invade Rome) Comment by AntonioItaly
******Krazy, Wayne, PLC etc., would you be so kind as to ask your compadre, Antonio, if he’s thinking of “taking out” American TOURISTs or American Tourister luggage?? (You must be sooooo proud of the support your position has throughout the EU!!)
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:36 pm“People have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.â€
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
*******Please share that thought with Islamic jihadists…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Actually, I meant it more for people like you. But, please, do have a Happy New Year. Maybe lots more people will die so you can be even happier!
Noodles!
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:36 pmWe went in because the entire world thought SH had WMD’s - and his continued violation of UN resolutions.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
You figure a lawyer would know that pre-emptive attacks are a violation of International Law… But since you aren’t a lawyer, let me educate you on this matter.
International Law says that you cannot attack a country unless they have attacked you. Iraq did not attack us, therefore you have and continue to support criminal behavior.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:37 pmROME, Italy (Reuters) — Italy will campaign at the United Nations for a global ban on the death penalty, Prime Minister Romano Prodi said on Tuesday, after graphic images of Saddam Hussein’s hanging shocked people around the world.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:38 pmMy first post, even though Ive been looking at this site daily for last several months.
My reaction to this hanging was simple. Seems like we took Iraq away from one set of goons and thugs and have handed it over to a different set, and these new guys more closely aligned to Iran. From my reading of the news it seems that Moqtada is far and away the most popular politician/next despot in that land. I hate it that every time the Bush administration uses the principles of America - such as rule of law, and fair trial, in this case - we cant seem to take the high ground and do it correctly. I mean I know it was the Iraqis that actually carried out the hanging, but I mean cmon, we have advisors everywhere there. Cant we help them do anything correct? Bush and CO. crusaded on other principles of America - freedom and throwing off tyranny - and then we mess that up with Abu Ghraib. Unless we learn to actually carry out these principles correctly, we shouldnt be using them as our rationale for whatever it is were doing. We, and I mean all of us Americans that this administration is supposed to be representing, are only losing our credibility this way.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:38 pm“Please share that thought with Islamic jihadists…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Actually, I meant it more for people like you.” Comment by Wayne
******Of course you did Wayne. We call some people “sympathizers” for a REASON…..and you’re VERY sympathetic…..
AND, finally for RantTOM and rest of your ilk - I’ll play with you re: WMD’s when you admit the previous administration thought the exact same thing about Saddam AND the traitor, Jimmy Carter is responsible for GUTTING our intelligence agencies. Until then, go play with Wayne, and be nice…..
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:42 pmOK MA, SH is dead, there are no WMD’s, there are no more links to the official govt in Iraq and Al Qiada and the country is in a civil war. My beef with this admin. won’t be about how poorly they tried to connect the dots or how much the feared us with mushroom clouds. My contention is how pitiful the execution of this mess has become.
If it’s this global war on terrorism then it’s not something that should be funded by emergency requests from this administration. As a prudent, conservative wouldn’t you want to see how efficient the spending was being done? Why won’t this administration open up the books on most of what’s being spent?
They won’t because it would show how piss poor they have been all along.
500 billion for this. That would have never been accepted if this was an actual business. The upper management would have been kicked to the curb a long time ago.
So here’s a question for you MA. Why won’t this administration all oversight on the spending and why would you continue to support an administration if they don’t allow oversight?
Answer that.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 pmjust as the military commanders and the political people who are trying to run the war think that they’ve got something quieted over in one front, it pops up in another.
In other words, Mr. Brokaw, the occupation is an unmitigated disaster. There is no end in sight to the civil war, and there are no metrics to judge whether or not the US is making any progress in imposing an American-made democracy on Iraqis -although all the signs point to the opposite.
It seems like only halfwits like Mitey Coprolite are still in full support of the occupation.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 pmAn opportunity to be civilized was missed.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:46 pmYou can bet that George W,. Bush had a live feed to the execution. This has been one of george’s primary goals and the sooner and more wild west like the better “george the executioner” liked it. They danced in the oval office and they danced in the Iraqi prime ministers office.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:49 pmIt’s on to Iran, soon! Damn everyone else. The decider decides all.
Maybe lots more people will die so you can be even happier!
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
In crazy Christianist lunatic world, it is okay to kill the following humans:
–Non-Americans
–Non-Christianists
–Non-lily white skinned people
–Non-neocons
–Poor people
–Hungry people
–Smart people who think for themselves (might be redundant with the non-neocon listing above)
–Innocent woman, children above the age of 1 and elderly people over the age of 65
But not the following:
–Blasocysts
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:49 pm–Embryos
–Snow white babies
–Imaginary offspring
“You figure a lawyer would know that pre-emptive attacks are a violation of International Law… But since you aren’t a lawyer, let me educate you on this matter.
International Law says that you cannot attack a country unless they have attacked you. Iraq did not attack us, therefore you have and continue to support criminal behavior.” Comment by unbelievable —
****Dear Unbe - It is a shame you infect so many young minds - but incorrectly reciting the “facts” you wish for does not make them FACTS. International Law was NOT violated as the US and Iraq were operating under a cease fire. A state of peace did not exist and to make this easier for a simpleton such as yourself to understand, think of this like parole. If SH had followed the agreement post the Gulf War, the 2003 attacks would not have occurred. But if a parolee is in “violation” of the terms of his/her parole, they resume fulfilling their sentence/punishment.
Do you lie and distort the facts in your classroom as much as you do here???
Planes here….
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:49 pmJoe - Bill Clinton said the same things in the ’90’s - get up to speed….
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:51 pmI’ll play with you re: WMD’s when you admit the previous administration thought the exact same thing about Saddam
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
You keep bringing up this complete nonsense, and ignore that -before March 2003- the inspections regime had been resumed and that inspectors were asking for more time to complete the assessment of Hussein’s compliance with international mandates.
You also purposefully ignore all the evidence of Pres Bush “fixing the facts around the policy”, all of which puts to rest your contention that other adminsitrations viewed Hussein’s regime as a threat to the US and the world (one of the stated reasons for the invasion).
If you have nothing of value to add to the discussion, Mitey Coprolite, please try not to make such a fool of yourself. You can at least try, can’t you?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:51 pmFine by me MA because, contrary to your ASSumption, I’m not a Democrat. Of course, it doesn’t take a Democrat to see how full of shit the Cheney/Bush administration is.
At least most Americans have finally woken to the facts, even if they still elude you.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:53 pm******Of course you did Wayne. We call some people “sympathizers†for a REASON…..and you’re VERY sympathetic…..
Okay, so if I am able to follow your twisted logic, you are calling me a “sympathizer” (and you did, don’t try to play word games) because I do not believe in using violence and killing to solve problems???
Mighty,I’m sorry to be the one to have to tell you, but there is something wrong with you. I sincerely hope that 2007 is the year you get the psychiatric help you so clearly need. But since you’re the type that doesn’t seem to want any sympathy from even a “sympathizer” me, you wont get any. In the meantime, I suggest you go visit RedState.org, where your “humor” might play better.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:57 pmIt is a shame you infect so many young minds - but incorrectly reciting the “facts†you wish for does not make them FACTS.
People like you wouldconsider education ‘infection’. It’s why the system is so screwed up to begin with. Your kind can’t handle the reality of evolution, so you fight against it and call it infection. The only thing infected around here is your… what did Zoo call it… your ‘whatever’ LOL
International Law was NOT violated as the US and Iraq were operating under a cease fire.
Yes, it was. You CANNOT attack pre-emptively. And we did. The first time for that matter as well… So if you wanna claim a ‘cease-fire’ (which is bull$hit), then you have to accept that the first war was also illegal.
A state of peace did not exist and to make this easier for a simpleton such as yourself to understand, think of this like parole. If SH had followed the agreement post the Gulf War, the 2003 attacks would not have occurred. But if a parolee is in “violation†of the terms of his/her parole, they resume fulfilling their sentence/punishment.
As less of a simpleton than you - I get that the first Gulf War was also illegal… so it was simply an extention of that criminal activity.
Here’s another violation for you. You cannot remove a sovereign elected leader. Spin that one.
Do you lie and distort the facts in your classroom as much as you do here???
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
Only you call truth and reality lies and distortions. It’s why you are such a miserable freak of nature who jokes about dead children. No wonder no one likes you.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:58 pmDid Saddam Hussein kill more Iraqi civilians per year than either George Bush?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:58 pmSorry RantingTommy,
Mighty agreed to play with you, ew.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:00 pmcan’t answer the questions in post 65 can you MA? Go ahead and keep attacking others. You hold nothing here for me if you can’t answer those questions.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:00 pmSo much for bringing the “Rule of Law” to the Iraqi’s.
MA Said:
MA, Even if Pres. Clinton did think this (I’m sure not taking your word for it) And Pres. Carter was responsible for “GUTTING our intelligence agencies” (again, not taking your word for it) your point has two major holes in it: Pres. Clinton didn’t go to War without any planing and Pres. Carter left Office in January 1981.
Ummm, What year do you think this is anyway??
Follow Along:
Pres. Carter left Office in January 1981.
Pres. Clinton left office in January of 2001.
Pres. GW Bush lead us into war in 2003 based on a falsehood.
It’s now January 2007. When do you allow Pres. GW Bush to bear any responsibility for his actions?? In 2207?
Back on topic: Regardless of who was being executed, you don’t video tape or photograph the actual execution. It’s Barbaric and says more about the people watching it then the criminal being executed. The “People” needed to see it? I think not. This was a late night Lynch mob, nothing else.
I refuse to watch it as it has no value to me and I’m not into Snuff films.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:02 pmAn opportunity to be civilized was missed.
Comment by Geri
You are talking about being civilized and this is what Bush was saying soon after 9/11.
Our nation is somewhat sad, but we’re angry. There’s a certain level of blood lust, but we won’t let it drive our reaction. We’re steady, clear-eyed and patient, but pretty soon we’ll have to start displaying scalps.
George W. Bush
In hindsight, it appears civilization lost out as we were looking for scalps. It appears that Iraqi scalps would just have to do since we couldn’t find bin Laden’s and the other terrorists whose links were being protected by the Saudi government.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:03 pmJoe - Bill Clinton said the same things in the ’90’s - get up to speed….
Comment by mighty aphrodite
My point exactly. Bill Clinton didn’t use faulty, misleading, or crafted intelligence to get us into what is becoming a Trillion Dollar War and a decade of fruitless nation building.
Perhaps a course in World History would help YOU get up to speed, my dear. You need to get a clue, girl.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:08 pmmighty aphrodite…Quite a big name for such a small mind. Very self congratulatory. I hate to get all
factual on you but it seems you have a script, a theme, a formula to answer your detractors. Here’s how you call out those that disagree with you. You call them whiners, You call them pacifists, you say things to the effect of “at least Bush has the balls to…” and then in your final and most transparent, most over used, most tired of responses you blame Clinton. It’s like a bad b-movie that’s so predictable, if I left halfway through, I’d still be able to give you the formulaic conclusion to your weak ass movie/argument.
Well, here’s some facts that cannot be disputed as they were said by all the players themselves a year before the invasion. Condolezza Rice, Cheney, Bush and Powell said that not only was Iraq not a threat, since they never reconstituted their Army after the first Gulf War, but their ability to threaten their neighbors because of sanctions and weapons inspections had remained weak and they were not considered a threat to anyone. Your weak and mealee mouthed attempt to justify an attack on a sovereign nation because of UN violations gives you and your war mongering bretheren an excuse to justify permanent war as there are countless countries who violate UN law and international law.
I don’t agree or disagree with the execution of Sadam Hussein, for all I care he could’ve been kept in prison for the rest of his life. Yet, when I look at the events objectively my hypocrisy meter keeps jumping into the red. Meaning, is it only a matter of time before Bush is hanged because of the countless number of innocent Iraqi women and children he’s killed by his illegal and immoral war? MA keep being that dutiful 20% er, it’s really of no consequence what you believe, you are outnumbered by not only the majority of this country, but the majority of the citizens of the world. So enjoy your newfound status of being a marginalized right wing fascist supporting maverick.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:08 pmIf Maliki was trying to tell Sadr and all of Iraq that the Mahdi army was not going to be curbed, having obvious Sadr supporters conduct the hanging in street clothes with masks was a PR stroke of genius. Dawn of Ied (for Sunnis) was perfect timing to piss off the Sunni world (inside and outside of Iraq) no end. Derisive chanting, etc. by the execution squad was a novel exercise in motivational speech. Letting someone shoot the whole thing with a cell phone, rather than an official documentary camera crew, is so YouTube friendly and hip.
And our brilliant folks who are supposed to be promoting coalition, compromise, and pacification didn’t see this coming…..sheesh.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:10 pmPeople have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
It’s not about solving problems Wayne — it’s about justice. He got what he deserved.
Maybe other thug leaders (hello Chavez!) will now thing more carefully before murdering their own people.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:11 pm“Of course you did Wayne. We call some people “sympathizers†for a REASON…..and you’re VERY sympathetic…..”
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Yeah, and we call some people “shit for brains” for a REASON…and you have SHIT FOR BRAINS.
Why do you keep cheerleading for GWB? You’d think that someone who is as smart as you keep telling us you are would be able to see right through the lies. Do you keep coming back here out of guilt or something, because it certainly isn’t for the warm welcome anymore.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:12 pmCynicon ImplantL: Are you suggesting we imitate the fine job we did in Iraq in Venezuela?!?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:15 pmSo enjoy your newfound status of being a marginalized right wing fascist supporting maverick.
Comment by Fascism Americana — January 2, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
Excellent post!
And now having marginalized said lunatic, let’s get back to the subject at hand…
It’s now been two months since we fired the Republican controlled Congress. Anyone know what world opinion is? Do people get that We The People do not condone the Bush Regime? Just curious, since our media dedicates so little air time to the rest of the world.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:15 pmCynicon Implant,
Violence begets more violence. Killing people does not solve problems, nor is it the only avenue open for “justice”. And to say that someone who was hanged “got what he deserved” displays a remarkable lack of humanity. Nobody deserves to die. That’s inhuman.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:17 pm#57 Mr large point,
You missed a point bigger than your head. The govt of Iraq is a US puppet. The US handed Saddam to the Iraqis and is therefore responsible They could have handed him over to the to the Hague. He could have had a fair trial. But no GWB just had to have his hanging. That JT is the large point which apparently escapes you.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:17 pmWe can also view the non-apprehension of a particular Saudi Arabian mastermind of terrorism through the prism of the evolving martyrdom of Saddam Hussein……………
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:17 pmDid any sentient person actually believe the execution of Saddam would have a positive result?
# 83, Fascism Americana…..
Very well said.
A little offtopic and tangential to this thread, but 25% of Americans predict that Jesus is coming in 2007. I would bet that these are the same 20%ers who support Baby Bush.
“The Rapture is not an exit strategy”
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:17 pmIt’s not about solving problems Wayne — it’s about justice. He got what he deserved.
That’s not justice - it’s revenge. And it makes you the very thing you claim to be against (a murderer).
Maybe other thug leaders (hello Chavez!) will now thing more carefully before murdering their own people.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 2, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
Unlike you, not everyone is manipulated by rightwing fear-mongering tactics.
And incase you failed to notice - Chavez was re-elected in a landslide…
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:19 pmCynicon ImplantL: Are you suggesting we imitate the fine job we did in Iraq in Venezuela?!?
Comment by S.D
Not my point at all SD — just that the spectacle of Hussein’s death might serve to make others like him think twice. And that might prevent us from getting into another Iraq.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:20 pmIt’s not about solving problems Wayne — it’s about justice. He got what he deserved.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Hummph. I must have missed something. Back in the 1980’s, President Ronnie, Cheney, and Donald Rumsfelt thought he was a standup guy while he was killing all those Iranians in an eight year war we backed him in.
Perhaps we need to bear some resonsibility for helping to create this monster to begin with?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:20 pmNobody deserves to die. That’s inhuman.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
What about animals?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:21 pmCynicon Implant- Perhaps Bush will get justice too! How cool would that be? Thug leaders? Where do you get your information about Chavez murdering his own people? Or are you just parroting Faux News? Or are you making it up?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:22 pm#92….
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:25 pmmy view of the rapture dogma in its present form is that it is a “cut and run” paradigm…
Cynicon Implant said:
Whew! Good to know!
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:25 pmI agree with those who have written that the Execution was:
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:26 pmA) Creepy…it was very strange..there was a really “creepy” element to it..at first I did not know why I felt…weird…when the images were shown…but as I thought about it…I definitely came to the same adjective…it really was/is…CREEPY…something NOT RIGHT there…just..off.
B) I too, was REALLY hoping that Saddam would “Spill the Beans”..Why did he not do that? Did he think he might get off, or get life if he kept his mouth shut? Did they tell him his ENTIRE family would be wiped out? (Not that he himself had too many compunctions about killing his kids..) In fact, as much as I believe Der Junior and his handlers have been invloved in EVERYTHING that has happened…the fact that Saddam, and others…are NOT spilling the beans..is really the best evidence, and maybe, frankly..the ONLY evidence..that some of the scenarios that have occurred have been more…complicated than just…Bush Did It!…I hate to admit that..but WHY are the leaders of countries that have Intelligence apperatus’ NOT telling what they know?
Finally…
C) MARTYR..Yup! that is for sure..and INHANCES my own belief that; THIS WHOLE “WAR” AND ALL THAT HAS ACCOMPANIED IT…IS NOT ABOUT “WINNING”…NOT ABOUT DEFEATING “TERRORISM”…NOPE! IT’S ABOUT DESTABILIZATION OF THE MIDDLE EAST, AND FAR EAST..MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE CHINESE, RUSSIANS, OR ANYONE ELSE…TO PLOP A MILITARY FORCE DOWN ON THAT O-I-L. AS LONG AS THERE IS ‘VIOLENCE’ THERE WILL BE AN EXCUSE TO KEEP THE BOOTS ON THE GROUND…ON TOP OF ALL THOSE ROTTING DINOSAURS…
Jeezis, Folks..we are really in DEEP SHIT!
I for one am hording supplies for the End Times…and because THERE WILL BE GIANT INSECTS AFTER THE APOCALYPSE..We have to be ready for that too..what a drag..I wish Geroge Peppard were here…damn! How am I gonna fend off all the Hordes of Screaming City Vermin in their zooped up dune buggies…without his help?..eeeeek!
Well…my words for ‘07..? “don’t forget to duck..”
Over and Out…
Hussein lived mercilessly and was executed without mercy.
Yet the man — the human being — died with courage and poise. In contrast, the cowards who executed him covered their faces, hurling insults they dared not express publicly. In a way, I guess, he found himself a victim of his own creation. Dictators make cowards by punishing the most outspoken. Examples must be made.
From among our current world leaders, finding themselves in Saddam’s circumstances, who would have shown the same sort of courage? The point of a trial — an honest, non-political trial — is to establish facts and to give the world (our peers) an opportunity to judge the man based upon those facts. Would we have done the same thing in his position? Are his crimes the direct result of his leadership? Should he have to assume responsibility for those killed?
A trial gives credibility to our leadership — those who purportedly act in our name. When that trial becomes a farce — a staged event like those in the old Soviet Union — then while the verdict may stand, the outcome remains a matter of political controversy.
The circumstances of Saddam’s hanging will make a martyr of him. His political supporters will dismiss his actual crimes as necessary or even understandable under the circumstances. We see that same dynamic operate here in the US as supporters of our leadership continue to defend the slaughter of 650,000 Iraqis.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:27 pmSaddam’s execution is no moral victory
Saddam’s execution in and of itself will likely have a relatively incremental impact on the world’s views regarding the US’s observance, or lack thereof, to the rule of law — the war itself has already set those views in place. To be fair, also, the hanging was technically a product of Iraqi law.
The problem is that Bush can’t do anything right with this war anymore, simply because there is no good course of action left. There’s only the least destructive of the various bad choices at this point. Saddam was bound to be a martyr — not in the standard religious sense, but rather because of the stability he brought to the region during his twenty years in power. By most estimates, far more Iraqi civilians have died over the past four years than during Saddam’s rule, and as Shiites come to power, Iran’s power may prove far more deadly still.
I have presented a more thorough argument in the article linked to at the top of this post.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:27 pmActually, it would be a huge blessing if that particular 25 or 30 percent of Americans would be raptured next year, think of the PROGRESS that could be acheived without all that dead weight holding our country back?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:29 pmOkay, unbelievable. I know what your stance on this is, and I don’t want to get into a fight with you. But I, like all other homo sapiens sapiens, am a natural omnivore, so I will eat both plants and animals. Yes, I’ve read your posts about how going vegan has improved your life, and I am glad that this has worked out for you. But it simply wouldn’t work for me.
But, if it makes you feel even a little bit better, I am totally opposed to sacrificing animals for religious purposes. And I oppose hunting animals for sport. (So the Vice President was wroing even before he shot a 78-year-old man in the face and then sent his friend out to lie about it.) But humans have to eat, and humans have developed into omnivorous creatures. And I’m not ready to give up my hamburger and french fries, thank you.
But I do sincerely wish you continued success with your dietary ways. I mean that. I couldn’t do it. But I won’t kill any animals to please non-existent gods, and I won’t kill them just for the sport of it. Deal?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:32 pm“The Rapture is not an exit strategyâ€
Comment by nanlichi — January 2, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
I would love to have that as a bumpersticker… (well, if I didn’t think the violent 20%ers in Georgia would vandalize my car).
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:33 pm“There’s an old poster out west, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive.’â€
Well, angry one, that has to be a sore reminder of yet another Bush failure: to capture OBL, one way or the other. That’s the reference within the quote.
But then, Bush never did want to capture OBL, whose only “admission” that he partook in the planning and/or execution of the 911 events came from a phony film and a poor stand-in lookalike for OBL, prepared especially for US consumption by the Office of Disinformation, or the Office of Special Plans, or the Propaganda Bureau– take your pick.
OBL wanted US troops off Arabian “sacred” soil. This demand was promptly obeyed by Bush shortly after 911. Bush knows who has the money, and he knows to which family he and the other Bushes owed allegiance. OBL, if still alive, will never be caught. He’s an untouchable, just like Neil and Jeb and Poppy and George W. All of them are neck deep in crime, and all of them will never be held accountable.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:34 pmIt’s obveous that the liberals cant count! All the do-badders that get caut are the ones beeing kilt. The comparrisions to Vietnam are spirrious at best. Bush has one ofthe finest foregn policy teams assembled that is possible. We ARE winning in Iraq - Every day! If you can’t get on board and come in for the big kill on the enemies of liberty, than you should just go and kill yourself! Let’s support the presient 100% in everyting he does! If the past 6 years has tought us anything, it’s that the Repubilcans have restored intelligense, dignitty, and morels to the White house and the country. We are respected not only for our mite, but our integritty everywhere in the world. No peace without 100% victory and death to all enemies of America and Bush. Down with Fashists - Support Bush!!!
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:34 pmjust that the spectacle of Hussein’s death might serve to make others like him think twice.
About what?
This is really a very disturbing thing to say.
You either are paranoid and think everyone is going to act like us (pre-emptive attacks) - or you think we are the world police who have some divine right to intimisate others.
Either way, your comment is why so many people hate America.
And that might prevent us from getting into another Iraq.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 2, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
This has nothing to do with the first part of your post as you suggest. Let me clarify…
Iraq did not attack us. Venezuela will not attack us, not because we scare them, but because they are more ethical than we are.
The only way to prevent another Iraq is if we don’t attack another sovereign country. It has nothing to do with anything anyone else does or doesn’t do…
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:37 pmThe Rapture is not an exit strategyâ€
Comment by nanlichi……
That is hilarious.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:37 pmMan, I hope that #107 (Carl Gordon) is a joke!
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:43 pmComment by Carl Gordon —
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:45 pmhere’s a link to kindercare - good news! They’re enrolling and have room in the pre-kindergarten for you.
They have spelling games and read books too!
http://www.kindercarefordummies.com
Okay, unbelievable. I know what your stance on this is, and I don’t want to get into a fight with you.
No fight, just wanted to make it a visible issue. I think it’s too easy to forget about because we are not cows or chickens.
But it simply wouldn’t work for me.
Why not?
But humans have to eat, and humans have developed into omnivorous creatures. And I’m not ready to give up my hamburger and french fries, thank you.
Why is that?
But I won’t kill any animals to please non-existent gods, and I won’t kill them just for the sport of it. Deal?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Not my point. I have also said that I understand things eat and I understand why (I accept evolution). I just don’t see how we can say that it is wrong to kill humans and okay to kill animals. If it’s okay to kill and eat animals, why do we then shoot to kill lions and bears and other predators who eat humans.
This isn’t personal Wayne. Just was a valid question about how we’ve elevate speople to a demi-god status that even non-religious people still seem to adhere to the system
The more I join reality, the more glaring the human hypocrisy becomes. I know how the religious justify it. I just wondered how the non-religious do. Because I am against killing anything I don’t absolutely have to.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:46 pmIf #107 isn’t a joke, we’re screwed! If it is a joke, well, it’s almost as funny as “The Rapture is not an exit strategy”
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:47 pmGwbush has secured his legacy.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:47 pmIn the future, the first image to apear in ones mind upon hearing his name will be
a (very large) hangman’s noose.
Yeah, I’m operating on the assumption that the numerous spelling errors in #107 are intentional and supposed to convey that the “speaker” is an ignorant rube. Otherwise, the speaker is an ignorant rube.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:48 pmIt cracks me up that all you conspiracy theorists think that Bush executed Saddam. It was an Iraqi trial and an Iraqi execution. Maybe President Bush caused Enron to go bankrupt too.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:48 pmMighty Aprodite must masturbate to pictures of Bush, Cheney and Jeff Gannon every night. He/She sounds like it’s trying to be the next Mann Coulter. Ignore this sociopath and leave her/him to their own self hatred.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:49 pmIt’s obveous that the liberals cant count! All the do-badders that get caut are the ones beeing kilt. The comparrisions to Vietnam are spirrious at best.
Comment by Carl Gordon — January 2, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
Dude, I can’t get past your horrific spelling and grammatical errors to read that. If you can’t even spell ‘killed’ properly, you don’t have any credibility anyway. Seriously - if you don’t care about basic spelling, how can we accept that you care enough to form your own opinions?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:51 pmjust that the spectacle of Hussein’s death might serve to make others like him think twice.
About having the US plant you into power and being an ally of them? Yeah I agree with you. I don’t think any wanna-be-dictator will ever trust the US again to put them into power and not use them as a testing ground for their new weapons systems later when they tire of him.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:51 pmlick of siberals
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:53 pmDid Pontius Pilate crucify Christ?
Hey there “sick of liberals”… Way to chime in there. It’s funny that you choose to comment on one or two posts out of 117 or 118. Just looking for an argument you know you can’t lose or what? President Bush didn’t cause Enron’s bankruptcy but I bet he knew it was coming. By the way, who said Bush executed Saddam?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:54 pmIt was an Iraqi trial and an Iraqi execution.
Comment by sickof liberals — January 2, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
If it was an Iraqi trial, then why did we have to hand custody of Saddam over to the Iraqis after the trial? Hmmm?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:54 pmEveryone stop your name calling and shouting and read this excellent article that pretty much tells it like it is about the whole SH incident.
US Buries the Truth
Saddam’s Execution Eliminates the Main Witness against Accomplices
by Eric Margolis
On my first visit to Iraq in 1976, so-called “Israeli spies” were being hanged in front of my Baghdad hotel.
While covering Iraq just before the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam Hussein’s secret police threatened to hang me as an American/Israeli spy.
I always considered “President Hussein,” who was hanged Friday, a sadistic bully and a loathsome megalomaniac.
No one can accuse me of sympathy for Saddam or his fellow thugs who terrorized Iraq. But I was thoroughly disgusted and ashamed by the kangaroo court created and stage-managed by the U.S. that condemned Saddam.
It was a disgraceful farrago of Soviet-style show trial and judicial circus. Washington, which claimed to be bringing the fruits of democracy to the benighted Arab World, put on a sinister legal farce worthy of, ironically, Saddam’s courts.
Iraq’s deposed president, whom Osama bin Laden called “the worst Arab despot” should have faced real justice at an international legal tribunal like the UN Hague Court. That would have served warning to other despots who violated human rights and committed aggression.
The United States did right to hand over Serb tyrant Slobodan Milosevic to the Hague. But Saddam had to be silenced before he told the world about his long collusion with the United States. Dead men tell no tales.
Saddam’s biggest crime was not killing rebellious Kurds or Shia. As ruler of the unnatural, British-created Frankenstein state Iraq, Saddam was forced to keep putting down rebellions.
Saintly Winston Churchill authorized the RAF to bomb Iraq’s rebellious Kurdish tribesmen with poison gas — exactly as Saddam later did. Saddam’s most brutal repression of Kurds and Shia occurred when they revolted during Iraq’s wars with Iran and the U.S.
Saddam should have faced trial for his unprovoked 1980 aggression against Iran that ended up causing one million dead and wounded.
But in this crime, Saddam was covertly backed by his principal accomplices, the U.S. and Britain. Donald Rumsfeld even went to Baghdad to offer Saddam arms, finance and intelligence. Hanging Saddam eliminated the main witness.
Saddam was helped into power by the CIA, which stood by while he slaughtered Iraqi communists and Nasserites.
The U.S. and Britain, as I discovered in Baghdad in 1990, supplied Saddam with poison gas and germs to make battlefield weapons (these were not “weapons of mass destruction.” The germs were never successfully weaponized).
So long as Saddam was killing and torturing people America and Britain did not like, he was “our SOB.”
But when Saddam grew too big for his britches and invaded Kuwait, he went from being the West’s regional bullyboy to devil No. 1.
Once he touched the West’s oil in Kuwait, he was marked for death.
Some of the tame U.S. media have been spinning Saddam’s execution as a justification for the Bush/Cheney administration’s unprovoked invasion of Iraq, without ever asking why Saddam was an ally in 1988 yet a devil in 1991 and again in 2003.
Nor has there been much reporting that under Saddam, Iraq became the Arab world’s most industrialized nation, a leader in women’s rights, medical care, education, and public projects.
Back in 2003, I predicted that once the U.S. got rid of old pal Saddam, it would look for another Saddam-clone to replace him. The mutant state of Iraq and its feuding peoples can only be ruled by an iron fist. Saddam’s greatest error was believing he had frightened Iraqis into a national unity that would support invasions of his neighbours. He was dead wrong.
There are plenty of other brutal regimes that rival Saddam’s Iraq for nastiness. Most are close U.S. allies. As Henry Kissinger once quipped, being America’s ally is far more dangerous than being its enemy.
After jubilation among Shia and Kurds over Saddam’s execution subsides, Iraq will return to its daily bloody chaos. Saddam called himself a martyr. In years to come, many Arabs will forget his many crimes and remember him as a flawed hero and martyr who dared challenge the United States and Israel, and paid the price for his audacity.
© 2006 Toronto SunOn Dec 31, 2006
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:55 pmSeriously everybody, I’m pretty sure 107 is a joke.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:56 pm#107 has to be a gag…
“sickof liberals”? maybe I should change my Nickname to “sickof labels“…
Don’t get me started on Enron!
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:56 pmThe comparrisions to Vietnam are spirrious at best.
Comment by Carl Gordon — January 2, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
I doubt anyone who could use the word ’spurious’ properly is either a parody or just mimicking a FAUX talking head…
Yeah Jane and Wayne - you’re probably right that it’s not real.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:57 pmYou either are paranoid and think everyone is going to act like us (pre-emptive attacks) - or you think we are the world police who have some divine right to intimisate others.
Either way, your comment is why so many people hate America.
Comment by unbelievable
All I am saying is that sitting by passively while facist leaders repress and kill their own people is not a great long term strategy (for them or us). I don’t think we have a divine right to “initimisate” (sounds kinda kinky!) others, but I’m glad Saddam is dead and the world is better for it.
If that opinion is making people hate America then so be it. My question to you is why do YOU hate America?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:57 pmMighty,
Would you think the Vatican is a terrorist sympathiser, since they condemned Saddam’s execution?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:57 pm#83 - “Meaning, is it only a matter of time before Bush is hanged because of the countless number of innocent Iraqi women and children he’s killed by his illegal and immoral war?” - Comment Fascism Americana
*******Your mediocre “argument” was plodding along fairly well until you fell in the ditch you dug with your statement above. You make the mistake of labeling a war “illegal and immoral” without understanding the concepts which would make your statement universally true. You foolishly forget to include any atrocities and deceptions by Saddam, reserving such descriptions only for your ideological enemies. Nice try…..please come back and play again!
P.S. Your other AKA wouldn’t be AntonioItaliano, would it???
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:00 pmDK#124 - Nice post. But I still want Carl to enroll at kindercarefordummies
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:00 pm113 unbelievable,
When it comes to killing in general, I do not believe it’s justified except to save your own life or the lives of those in your care (your kids or spouse or others in your charge). If a lion or bear or other predator were actively killing humans in an area, then I could accept killing that animal if it was trying to harm Jane or me. And if they want to send a posse out to kill it, then I hope they kill the right animal (and not one that wasn;t hurting people.)
And if you want to know the real truth, I’m a fussy eater, and my hamburgers and french fries are one of the few foods I like to eat. I won’t give them up voluntarily because I like them. It may not be the best answer in the world, but it is the truth.
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:01 pmWe missed our chance to mess with the heads of our enemies:
We should have said that Saddam’s crimes were indeed terrible, but in the name of Allah the Most Merciful, we were commuting his sentence to life in prison. (!)
Then the Shiites and Sunnis would have been *totally* confused about how to feel about the US. :-)
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:02 pm“The Rapture is not an exit strategy” isn’t original, I picked up the meme here and I thought it was great. I told the poster then that I was going to steal it. It captures the religious aspect of Bush’s War, as well as the lack of a plan, and the deus ex machina wishful thinking of the neocons.
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:03 pmAll I am saying is that sitting by passively while facist leaders repress and kill their own people is not a great long term strategy (for them or us).
But it’s okay for us to kill other people? That IS what we are doing in Iraq.
There are alternatives to violent force that winds up making us what we said we are against by killing more innocent people that Saddam did. Have you considered that?
I don’t think we have a divine right to “initimisate†(sounds kinda kinky!) others, but I’m glad Saddam is dead and the world is better for it.
My typing sucks… (the ’s’ is next to the ‘d’)…
How is the world better that he is dead rather than in prison? Seriously - please explain that to me.
If that opinion is making people hate America then so be it. My question to you is why do YOU hate America?
Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 2, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
I don’t hate America. It’s why I want it to stop doing things that make it hated. We live on this planet - we need to figure out how to get along with our co-inhabitants, instead of attacking them because we think they might do something….
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:04 pmDon’t they get it? The worst thing that can happen to Islamic extremists is being locked up, and throw away the key. Good old progressive treat’em as criminals justice!
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:04 pmI like the way you think. :-)
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:06 pmYou have to love it when people say that the Bushies tried to stop the Iraq government from executing Saddam. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. I would be willing to bet anything that Bush ordered Malaki to immediately execute Saddam, to keep him quiet. It doesn’t really matter, though. Any reasonably intelligent American knows how former american presidents (including Bush’s daddy) helped Saddam become what he was and only turned on him once he told us to take a hike.
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:08 pmIn response to 121, I hope to God you aren’t saying that Saddam was Christ, and either way that is the weakest argument I have ever heard. 122, you are absolutely right. I don’t want to fight all 100+ posts, because I dont have time to argue with all of you, and I should have not said “Bush” but “Bush and Co.” as stated in the numerous posts above. 123, we handed him over before the trial started, and it was an International Tribunal. America had nothing to do with the decision to execute him and he got what he deserved. All you liberal wimps need to get tough or we will all soon be speaking Arabic. Remember, Hitler never attacked us either.
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:10 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
Wayne - thanks for your answer. I may wholly disagree with it and not think it is one of your usually convincing arguments :), but I appreciate your response.
I think that the better solution to preventing animals from killing people is for people to stop violating their habitats with human communities. We really have zero respect for the other living things on this planet, and force them to conform and cater to our human-centric existence. And when they do what they are naturally inclined to do - we murder them and say it is because people are better. I think it helps explain why we’ve polluted and destroyed the planet to the point that we have.
I used to like steak myself. I guess I just couldn’t live with the guilt.
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:11 pmThe world did NOT think Saddam had WMD. Only the U.S. did based on known FALSE information.
Second. Saddam was in fact cooperating with the U.N. It was Bush who
kicked the U.N. out of Iraq. Bush wanted to attack Iraq before 9/11.
The U.N. resolution did NOT give authorization to anyone to attack Iraq.
Third, Saddam didn’t do anything another country wouldn’t do in the name of National Security. Including the U.S. Which is holding people without trial and murdering them in jail.
Fourth, The U.S. supported all of Saddam’s actions in the 1980’s , INCLUDING the gassing of the Kruds. In Fact, Reagan stopped Congress from holding hearings on the matter.
Fifth, The U.S. government, with U.S. private industry, helped Saddam start his WMD programs during the 1980’s. Those same programs were destroyed after the first Gulf War. They did not exist by 2003.
Saddam was an over zealous Bush. Bush would use the exact same tactics and methods if Bush could get away with it.
Before 2003, there was one Saddam in Iraq; Now you have dozens upon dozens of Saddams in Iraq.
The main point about Saddam wasn’t about executing him. The main point was to show that the new Iraq was BETTER than when Saddam was in power: The new Iraq FAILED miserably.
It’s no different than Saddam.
The execution could have been done correctly. The trial could have been done correctly. There were not.
Shakespeare was right: “What fools these mortals be!”
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:12 pm#76 - “People like you wouldconsider education ‘infection’. It’s why the system is so screwed up to begin with. Your kind can’t handle the reality of evolution,…” - Comment by unbelievable
******You’re