Think Progress

Brokaw: Hussein Execution ‘Resembled The Worst Kind Of Nightmare Out Of The Old American West’

Former NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw, who delivered a eulogy at President Gerald Ford’s funeral today, appeared this morning on the Don Imus radio show. Brokaw agreed with Imus that it is “difficult to imagine” how the execution of Saddam Hussein “could have turned out worse.”

“[W]e portray ourselves around the world as the champions of democracy and the rule of law,” Brokaw said, yet Hussein’s execution “resembled the worst kind of nightmare out of the old American West.” As a result, Hussein, who “had disappeared, in effect, as some kind of a symbol over there, suddenly becomes a martyr.” Watch it:

[flv http://video.thinkprogress.org/2007/01/brokaw.320.240.flv]

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Full transcript:

IMUS: Could we have a worse turn of events with the Saddam Hussein video and all that?

BROKAW: No, it’s — you know, as we portray ourselves around the world as the champions of democracy and the rule of law — first of all, that began to unravel in the eyes of a lot of people in that part of world with Abu Ghraib and the great cruelties and indignities that were imposed on people there. The debate goes on here about Guantanamo and about access to people’s private records. And then to say that we are going to install in Iraq a judicial system and a democratic form of government and have something that resembled the worst kind of nightmare out of the old American West. Not much dignity. He was, he was a god awful man and he did have a trial, but not have control of the execution, and to have it really just fuel more sectarian violence at a time when we are trying to dampen that is not helpful, which is an understatement.

IMUS: Well, I guess the New York Times reported and I was also talking to Richard about that the United States apparently unsuccessfully prevailed about Maliki to delay this.

BROKAW: Yep.

IMUS: I wonder, I wonder why he refused? I mean…

BROKAW: I honestly don’t know either. But Saddam Hussein who had disappeared, in effect, as some kind of a symbol over there, suddenly becomes a martyr. He was a terrible tyrant who was responsible for an untold number of deaths, you know, waged his own jihad against the Shiite in that country, especially in the south following Operation Desert Storm in the early 1990s, and now he’s able to stand up there with the hood off and invoke prayer and even invoke the Palestinians, and go out in the eyes of his people at least as a martyr.

IMUS: I mean, it’s difficult to imagine how this could have turned out worse.

BROKAW: No, it is pretty difficult to imagine, and it’s, you know, just as the military commanders and the political people who are trying to run the war think that they’ve got something quieted over in one front, it pops up in another.



1,058 Responses to “Brokaw: Hussein Execution ‘Resembled The Worst Kind Of Nightmare Out Of The Old American West’”

  1. RUCerious says:

    Martyr.

    The word is already being used in news stories coming out of Baghdad.

    Way to chymp it, W.


  2. Tom says:

    Jeebus – How do you screw up an execution? The whole world is watching.


  3. ForTruth says:

    I didn’t watch the FOX version, I watched the CNN version, which stopped right before they killed him.

    I thought it was chaotic, creepy, and it just didn’t sit right. It was horrible. The Vatican condemned it.


  4. TripMaster Monkey says:

    Brokaw: Hussein Execution ‘Resembled The Worst Kind Of Nightmare Out Of The Old American West’

    Of course it did.

    Three words.

    Shock and Awe.


  5. ForTruth says:

    Ask Florida how to screw up an execution.


  6. Parrotlover77 says:

    Life in prison was too dangerous. Saddam could spill the beans on all the not-so-savory things Bush Sr, Jr, and Reagan did to help him.


  7. Rebel In CA says:

    Chalk up another screw-up for W. The man cannot do anything right.


  8. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    And what has changed for the Iraqi people from the day before Saddam was hanged to the day after? Did killing Saddam bring back any of the dead? Was Saddam a danger to anyone while he was locked away in his prison cell?

    To me, this execution was just another sad example of man’s inhumanity to man. I will not weep for this man’s death, but I certainly will not rejoice. People have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.


  9. Zooey says:

    #1 – That’s the only word to describe Saddam now.
    Here’s a word to describe what will happen next: Bloodbath.


  10. ForTruth says:

    Parrotlover,

    I was hopful he would have spilled the beans. He knew too much.


  11. Jeff says:

    He has nice opinions about Israel-based foreign policy that Brokaw.


  12. tarazan says:

    The people who hanged Saddam were wearing civilian clothes and black hoods…and they were chanting ‘Muqtada, Muqtada,Shiate spiritual leader,who America listed him as ‘wanted’ to face criminal charges’ as symbolism of their victory over the Sunnis. Hanging was done in the first day of religious holiday Eid AL-Adha which according to Iraqi Constitution itself bans death punishment on religious days. If Iraqi Prime Minister Al-Maliki and Bush were looking to unite Iraq and heal the wounds ….the scenes of hanging Saddam did excatly the opposite.


  13. ForTruth says:

    There once was a guy who would become dictator. The US helped him too. He really thought life was good. He took examples from the US on how to do things. Then one day the US decided to remove him and kill him.

    The end.


  14. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    Hanging was done in the first day of religious holiday Eid AL-Adha which according to Iraqi Constitution itself bans death punishment on religious days.

    I could be wrong about this (and apologies if I am), but my understanding was that the holy day “officially” began at sunrise that calendar day, and that the execution took place within the last hour before sunrise. So, technically, it may not have fallen on one of their holy days. (Though how it makes it okay to kill someone escapes me.) But I could be mistaken about any of that.


  15. Angry One says:

    Bush Wild West Flashback:

    “There’s an old poster out west, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive.’”


  16. dlet says:

    So we have the this insanely idiotic execution of Saddam and bush will be announcing an escalation of troops in Iraq. Are they doing this crap on purpose to achieve total choas or are they really this stupid?

    Its crazy how the bush administration is now saying they were asking them to handle the execution in a sensitive manner and wrned them to do it right. So if there was a concern why did we hand a military prisoner over to the Iraqis knowing that he would be executed even though that goes against international law?


  17. TripMaster Monkey says:

    dlet sez:

    Are they doing this crap on purpose to achieve total choas or are they really this stupid?

    Exactly, dlet. No one is this stupid. This was designed specifically to foment unrest and further inflame the Iraqi conflict. This has Rove’s bloody handprints all over it.


  18. RUCerious says:

    #16 – Uh, really this stupid…


  19. Laszlo Panaflex says:

    My best friend used to live in Kuwait. Once he sent me a picture from the front page of the newspaper showing two guys hanging by ropes from the neck. They were drug smugglers, and their hangings were right there on the front page.

    Hard to imagine how Saddam’s execution could have been worse? It could have been broadcast live on TV, like Ceaucescu. They could have dragged his body through the streets, people spitting on and tearing at the corpse.

    This looks bad to us, but for the standards of the region, it was a model of due process. He should have been tried by an international body in The Hague and sentenced to life in prison. But what he got could have been much worse — he’s lucky the Americans got him and not the Mahdi army, who would have hung his torched corpse from a bridge.

    My friend’s wife grew up in Ceaucescu’s Romania and lived in Kuwait during the first war. He said she “seemed genuinely pleased” by the execution.


  20. redpretzel says:

    Why does Tom Brokaw hate freedom so much?


  21. Marie says:

    I am not on board with the argument that the execution was done before the holiday began, or because Maliki wanted to demonstrate his authority, or whatver — Hussein was in US custody until a very short time before the hanging — Bush&Co wanted him hanged ASAP because the longer he remained alive, the more risk there was to more of the truth of our history with him being remembered by the American public.


  22. joe says:

    I hate capital punishment.

    I also hate Saddam.

    But my principles come before my hatred for one man. I shudder at this whole ordeal.


  23. 20wordsorless says:

    Exactly, dlet. No one is this stupid. This was designed specifically to foment unrest and further inflame the Iraqi conflict. This has Rove’s bloody handprints all over it.

    Comment by TripMaster Monkey

    If anyone thought you were out to lunch, this comment clinches it. Rove’s bloody handprints all over Saddam’s execution, what a cospiracy theory whack job you are!


  24. pk says:

    Only GWB could manage to turn a dispicable dictator and mass murderer into a sympathetic figure. Can this man do nothing right??? We have two more years of this nightmare to look forward to!


  25. 20wordsorless says:

    Bush&Co wanted him hanged ASAP because the longer he remained alive, the more risk there was to more of the truth of our history with him being remembered by the American public.

    Comment by Marie

    Where do you get this stuff?


  26. blade says:

    frankley I was reminded of the lynchings in the deep south, don’t get me wrong SH was not a nice charecter, but it still looked like a lynching and the world saw it and it’s firmly at americas doorstep.


  27. mighty aphrodite says:

    #26 – “….remembered by the American public.”Comment by Marie
    “Where do you get this stuff?” – 20wordsorless

    *******Dear 20 – She makes it up. (And having paranoid, extreme hatred for the US doesn’t hurt her script writing, either….)

    Tooodles….


  28. dlet says:

    #8
    Wayne,
    the only information that I know about the timing of the execution and Eid AL-Adha is that the Sunnis start to observe this holiday the day before the Shi’ites.


  29. tarazan says:

    The way we should measure the hanging of Saddam should be linked to the safety of our troops and the stability of Iraq as whole. Did hanging Saddam help us, or the hanging created more trouble for us in Iraq and the region and created more symbolism that we will fight for years to come as a result.


  30. hil says:

    #26
    they are called books, 20words… perhaps youve heard of them


  31. mighty aphrodite says:

    “….don’t get me wrong SH was not a nice charecter” Comment by blade

    *******GOOD of you to NOTICE!…..Now get back to apologizing to the world…..Psssst…..did you come up with the South/lunching hyperbole ALL by yourself?

    Later……


  32. TripMaster Monkey says:

    20wordsorless sez:

    If anyone thought you were out to lunch, this comment clinches it. Rove’s bloody handprints all over Saddam’s execution, what a cospiracy theory whack job you are!

    OK, 20wordsorless, what’s your explanation? This administration somehow turned an almost universally despised despot and mass-murderer into a martyr by accident?

    If you think your heroes are that stupid how stupid does that make you for continuing to defend them, hmm?


  33. Smithers MINNEAPOLIS » What a total disaster says:

    [...] Tom Brokaw on the Don Imus radio show this morning: …we portray ourselves around the world as the champions of democracy and the rule of law — first of all, that began to unravel in the eyes of a lot of people in that part of world with Abu Ghraib and the great cruelties and indignities that were imposed on people there. The debate goes on here about Guantanamo and about access to people’s private records. And then to say that we are going to install in Iraq a judicial system and a democratic form of government and have something that resembled the worst kind of nightmare out of the old American West. Not much dignity. He was, he was a god awful man and he did have a trial, but not have control of the execution, and to have it really just fuel more sectarian violence at a time when we are trying to dampen that is not helpful, which is an understatement… [...]


  34. Zimzone says:

    MA & Wordless,
    Speaking of making stuff up, how about the reason we went into this hell hole?
    Oh wait, reality isn’t what you two live in.


  35. los cuellos rojos son asesinos says:

    The Lynching was condemned throughout the World ( Literally Every country) America has lost total respect ( The final Nail in Bushes coffin), The Trial was a illegal court set up By Bremner , To An Actual International warcrime , done on the most Holi Day in the Islam Calender which started 12 pm the night before ,

    The world has loft any faith in the USA and condemns It Full stop .


  36. los cuellos rojos son asesinos says:

    Americans — and indeed the world — deserve better than this House of Shams. Bush was placed into office via a sham decision after a sham election. He declared a war via the use of sham intelligence. He has instituted sham policies, based on sham “science” and the sham “advice” of lobbyists and corporate interests disguised as consultants. He has given the American people sham “facts” about policies both foreign and domestic, and now he has killed Saddam Hussein in the wake of a sham trial.


  37. TripMaster Monkey says:

    Zimzone,

    I’ve already asked 20wordsorless that question repeatedly. His response is that he refuses to ‘have that silly debate with me’ on what is, according to him, ‘no longer the issue’.

    Further attempts to engage him in debate have been met with only a panicky silence.


  38. RantingTommy says:

    Idiots like 20words and MA always like to use the atrocities of America’s enemies to justify American atrocities.

    We’re Americans, we’re supposed to be BETTER than them. That’s what we keep telling the world, anyway.

    The Cheney Administration has ceded the moral high ground in order to make more money providing weapons to those fighting down in the valley.


  39. AntonioItaly says:

    International Criminal Court (ICC), but threatening the use of military force in the event that any American national is tried before it.

    ( Just try it Bush I’ll start Taking out American Tourist faster than you can Invade Rome)


  40. Krazny says:

    HI Mighty Aphrodite, got any new dead baby jokes for us you sick bitch?


  41. PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) says:

    Did a mighty breeze just blow through the blogosphere?


  42. unbelievable says:

    People have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.
    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 1:36 pm

    Amen


  43. mighty aphrodite says:

    Krazy-b*^ch – No…..I have some dead Saddam jokes….pictures, too.


  44. Dogjudge says:

    One thing that I haven’t seen addressed yet.

    Why didn’t the US make Saddam’s body just disappear? They’ve already done this in other situations.

    How is this site NOT going to end up being a shrine for Saddam’s supporters?


  45. Mark says:

    #25 Nick Berg was killed by criminals Sadaam was killed by the governnment. Get the picture? The problem with Sadaams death is not his actual death but rather the clumsy manner in which it was carried out. It appeared to be an amatuer lynching by a highly partisan group and the mannner of the execution makes Sadaam appear dignified and composed while his executioners look manic and crazed. But then again the right wing does like their partisanship and they do love their executions to be venngeful so I fully understand your view.


  46. unbelievable says:

    There once was a guy who would become dictator. The US helped him too. He really thought life was good. He took examples from the US on how to do things. Then one day the US decided to remove him and kill him.
    Comment by ForTruth — January 2, 2007 @ 1:40 pm

    Yep. Sickening.


  47. mighty aphrodite says:

    “People have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.”
    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 1:36 pm

    *******Please share that thought with Islamic jihadists…..


  48. unbelievable says:

    But go ahead – try to Ghandi-ize them……your intentions are what count….
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:00 pm

    There’s a reason Gandhi was loved, famous and will be revered throughout history – because he was a man of conscience who valued peace, equality for all, and respect.

    It’s the exact opposite of how people feel about you and why no one will ever remember you for anything positive.


  49. RantingTommy says:

    MA – it has been proven that they knew the WMD argument was false. Only dense idiots still believe that Cheney/Bush really thought he still had WMDs.

    The “rest of the world” only believed what Cheney and bush told them.

    THERE WAS NO RATIONALE FOR INVADING IRAQ. PERIOD.


  50. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    And here I thought it was President Bush who ordered the weapons inspectors to leave Iraq before they finished concluding that he didn’t have any WMD. I must not be watching Fox News enough to get that one wrong.
    /sarcasm off


  51. Marie says:

    The trolls who post here do not read, they do not think, they do not function but for what their leaders tell them.
    If Fox says it, or any member of Bush&Co says so, then it is their truth -they question not, they simply believe.


  52. Krazny says:

    #

    Krazy-b*^ch – No…..I have some dead Saddam jokes….pictures, too.

    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:29 pm

    Lose it much?


  53. unbelievable says:

    She makes it up.
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:05 pm

    No, that would be YOU who makes crap up.


  54. Yikes says:

    Speaking of deaf ears – the US went into Iraq because BUSH and CHENEY and RUMMY wanted to. They ‘determined’ that Saddam had WMD’s. But as we all know, the FIXED the intelligence to show what they wanted to show – not the facts. But deaf ears don’t matter when your mind is blinded.


  55. JT says:

    Tom Brokaw and Don Imus missed the larger point which ThinkProgress could have clarified but dropped the ball on:

    The trial and the sentence were conducted entirely under Iraq law. Any comparison of Saddam’s sentence of death by hanging with our system of laws is completely superfluous and off-base.

    Any person who thinks or states that “We’re Americans, we’re supposed to be BETTER than them. That’s what we keep telling the world, anyway” has MISSED THE POINT.

    If you want to complain, tell Tom Brokaw to bitch at the Iraq system, not ours. We don’t hang people for crimes against humanity.


  56. mighty aphrodite says:

    ( Just try it Bush I’ll start Taking out American Tourist faster than you can Invade Rome) Comment by AntonioItaly

    ******Krazy, Wayne, PLC etc., would you be so kind as to ask your compadre, Antonio, if he’s thinking of “taking out” American TOURISTs or American Tourister luggage?? (You must be sooooo proud of the support your position has throughout the EU!!)


  57. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    “People have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.”
    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 1:36 pm

    *******Please share that thought with Islamic jihadists…..

    Comment by mighty aphrodite

    Actually, I meant it more for people like you. But, please, do have a Happy New Year. Maybe lots more people will die so you can be even happier!

    Noodles!


  58. unbelievable says:

    We went in because the entire world thought SH had WMD’s – and his continued violation of UN resolutions.
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:27 pm

    You figure a lawyer would know that pre-emptive attacks are a violation of International Law… But since you aren’t a lawyer, let me educate you on this matter.

    International Law says that you cannot attack a country unless they have attacked you. Iraq did not attack us, therefore you have and continue to support criminal behavior.


  59. Antonio Italy says:

    ROME, Italy (Reuters) — Italy will campaign at the United Nations for a global ban on the death penalty, Prime Minister Romano Prodi said on Tuesday, after graphic images of Saddam Hussein’s hanging shocked people around the world.


  60. n1K says:

    My first post, even though Ive been looking at this site daily for last several months.

    My reaction to this hanging was simple. Seems like we took Iraq away from one set of goons and thugs and have handed it over to a different set, and these new guys more closely aligned to Iran. From my reading of the news it seems that Moqtada is far and away the most popular politician/next despot in that land. I hate it that every time the Bush administration uses the principles of America – such as rule of law, and fair trial, in this case – we cant seem to take the high ground and do it correctly. I mean I know it was the Iraqis that actually carried out the hanging, but I mean cmon, we have advisors everywhere there. Cant we help them do anything correct? Bush and CO. crusaded on other principles of America – freedom and throwing off tyranny – and then we mess that up with Abu Ghraib. Unless we learn to actually carry out these principles correctly, we shouldnt be using them as our rationale for whatever it is were doing. We, and I mean all of us Americans that this administration is supposed to be representing, are only losing our credibility this way.


  61. mighty aphrodite says:

    “Please share that thought with Islamic jihadists…..
    Comment by mighty aphrodite

    Actually, I meant it more for people like you.” Comment by Wayne

    ******Of course you did Wayne. We call some people “sympathizers” for a REASON…..and you’re VERY sympathetic…..

    AND, finally for RantTOM and rest of your ilk – I’ll play with you re: WMD’s when you admit the previous administration thought the exact same thing about Saddam AND the traitor, Jimmy Carter is responsible for GUTTING our intelligence agencies. Until then, go play with Wayne, and be nice…..


  62. hellinabucket says:

    OK MA, SH is dead, there are no WMD’s, there are no more links to the official govt in Iraq and Al Qiada and the country is in a civil war. My beef with this admin. won’t be about how poorly they tried to connect the dots or how much the feared us with mushroom clouds. My contention is how pitiful the execution of this mess has become.

    If it’s this global war on terrorism then it’s not something that should be funded by emergency requests from this administration. As a prudent, conservative wouldn’t you want to see how efficient the spending was being done? Why won’t this administration open up the books on most of what’s being spent?

    They won’t because it would show how piss poor they have been all along.

    500 billion for this. That would have never been accepted if this was an actual business. The upper management would have been kicked to the curb a long time ago.

    So here’s a question for you MA. Why won’t this administration all oversight on the spending and why would you continue to support an administration if they don’t allow oversight?

    Answer that.


  63. Gregor Samsa says:

    just as the military commanders and the political people who are trying to run the war think that they’ve got something quieted over in one front, it pops up in another.

    In other words, Mr. Brokaw, the occupation is an unmitigated disaster. There is no end in sight to the civil war, and there are no metrics to judge whether or not the US is making any progress in imposing an American-made democracy on Iraqis -although all the signs point to the opposite.

    It seems like only halfwits like Mitey Coprolite are still in full support of the occupation.


  64. Geri says:

    An opportunity to be civilized was missed.


  65. theswan says:

    You can bet that George W,. Bush had a live feed to the execution. This has been one of george’s primary goals and the sooner and more wild west like the better “george the executioner” liked it. They danced in the oval office and they danced in the Iraqi prime ministers office.
    It’s on to Iran, soon! Damn everyone else. The decider decides all.


  66. unbelievable says:

    Maybe lots more people will die so you can be even happier!
    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 2:36 pm

    In crazy Christianist lunatic world, it is okay to kill the following humans:

    –Non-Americans
    –Non-Christianists
    –Non-lily white skinned people
    –Non-neocons
    –Poor people
    –Hungry people
    –Smart people who think for themselves (might be redundant with the non-neocon listing above)
    –Innocent woman, children above the age of 1 and elderly people over the age of 65

    But not the following:

    –Blasocysts
    –Embryos
    –Snow white babies
    –Imaginary offspring


  67. mighty aphrodite says:

    “You figure a lawyer would know that pre-emptive attacks are a violation of International Law… But since you aren’t a lawyer, let me educate you on this matter.

    International Law says that you cannot attack a country unless they have attacked you. Iraq did not attack us, therefore you have and continue to support criminal behavior.” Comment by unbelievable —

    ****Dear Unbe – It is a shame you infect so many young minds – but incorrectly reciting the “facts” you wish for does not make them FACTS. International Law was NOT violated as the US and Iraq were operating under a cease fire. A state of peace did not exist and to make this easier for a simpleton such as yourself to understand, think of this like parole. If SH had followed the agreement post the Gulf War, the 2003 attacks would not have occurred. But if a parolee is in “violation” of the terms of his/her parole, they resume fulfilling their sentence/punishment.

    Do you lie and distort the facts in your classroom as much as you do here???

    Planes here….


  68. mighty aphrodite says:

    Joe – Bill Clinton said the same things in the ’90’s – get up to speed….


  69. Gregor Samsa says:

    I’ll play with you re: WMD’s when you admit the previous administration thought the exact same thing about Saddam
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:42 pm

    You keep bringing up this complete nonsense, and ignore that -before March 2003- the inspections regime had been resumed and that inspectors were asking for more time to complete the assessment of Hussein’s compliance with international mandates.

    You also purposefully ignore all the evidence of Pres Bush “fixing the facts around the policy”, all of which puts to rest your contention that other adminsitrations viewed Hussein’s regime as a threat to the US and the world (one of the stated reasons for the invasion).

    If you have nothing of value to add to the discussion, Mitey Coprolite, please try not to make such a fool of yourself. You can at least try, can’t you?


  70. RantingTommy says:

    Fine by me MA because, contrary to your ASSumption, I’m not a Democrat. Of course, it doesn’t take a Democrat to see how full of shit the Cheney/Bush administration is.

    At least most Americans have finally woken to the facts, even if they still elude you.


  71. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    ******Of course you did Wayne. We call some people “sympathizers” for a REASON…..and you’re VERY sympathetic…..

    Okay, so if I am able to follow your twisted logic, you are calling me a “sympathizer” (and you did, don’t try to play word games) because I do not believe in using violence and killing to solve problems???

    Mighty,I’m sorry to be the one to have to tell you, but there is something wrong with you. I sincerely hope that 2007 is the year you get the psychiatric help you so clearly need. But since you’re the type that doesn’t seem to want any sympathy from even a “sympathizer” me, you wont get any. In the meantime, I suggest you go visit RedState.org, where your “humor” might play better.


  72. unbelievable says:

    It is a shame you infect so many young minds – but incorrectly reciting the “facts” you wish for does not make them FACTS.

    People like you wouldconsider education ‘infection’. It’s why the system is so screwed up to begin with. Your kind can’t handle the reality of evolution, so you fight against it and call it infection. The only thing infected around here is your… what did Zoo call it… your ‘whatever’ LOL

    International Law was NOT violated as the US and Iraq were operating under a cease fire.

    Yes, it was. You CANNOT attack pre-emptively. And we did. The first time for that matter as well… So if you wanna claim a ‘cease-fire’ (which is bull$hit), then you have to accept that the first war was also illegal.

    A state of peace did not exist and to make this easier for a simpleton such as yourself to understand, think of this like parole. If SH had followed the agreement post the Gulf War, the 2003 attacks would not have occurred. But if a parolee is in “violation” of the terms of his/her parole, they resume fulfilling their sentence/punishment.

    As less of a simpleton than you – I get that the first Gulf War was also illegal… so it was simply an extention of that criminal activity.

    Here’s another violation for you. You cannot remove a sovereign elected leader. Spin that one.

    Do you lie and distort the facts in your classroom as much as you do here???
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:49 pm

    Only you call truth and reality lies and distortions. It’s why you are such a miserable freak of nature who jokes about dead children. No wonder no one likes you.


  73. Empires Fall says:

    Did Saddam Hussein kill more Iraqi civilians per year than either George Bush?


  74. ForTruth says:

    Sorry RantingTommy,

    Mighty agreed to play with you, ew.


  75. hellinabucket says:

    can’t answer the questions in post 65 can you MA? Go ahead and keep attacking others. You hold nothing here for me if you can’t answer those questions.


  76. S.D. says:

    So much for bringing the “Rule of Law” to the Iraqi’s.

    MA Said:

    the previous administration thought the exact same thing about Saddam AND the traitor, Jimmy Carter is responsible for GUTTING our intelligence agencies.

    MA, Even if Pres. Clinton did think this (I’m sure not taking your word for it) And Pres. Carter was responsible for “GUTTING our intelligence agencies” (again, not taking your word for it) your point has two major holes in it: Pres. Clinton didn’t go to War without any planing and Pres. Carter left Office in January 1981.

    Ummm, What year do you think this is anyway??

    Follow Along:
    Pres. Carter left Office in January 1981.
    Pres. Clinton left office in January of 2001.
    Pres. GW Bush lead us into war in 2003 based on a falsehood.
    It’s now January 2007. When do you allow Pres. GW Bush to bear any responsibility for his actions?? In 2207?

    Back on topic: Regardless of who was being executed, you don’t video tape or photograph the actual execution. It’s Barbaric and says more about the people watching it then the criminal being executed. The “People” needed to see it? I think not. This was a late night Lynch mob, nothing else.

    I refuse to watch it as it has no value to me and I’m not into Snuff films.


  77. Joe Sixpack says:

    An opportunity to be civilized was missed.
    Comment by Geri

    You are talking about being civilized and this is what Bush was saying soon after 9/11.

    Our nation is somewhat sad, but we’re angry. There’s a certain level of blood lust, but we won’t let it drive our reaction. We’re steady, clear-eyed and patient, but pretty soon we’ll have to start displaying scalps.
    George W. Bush

    In hindsight, it appears civilization lost out as we were looking for scalps. It appears that Iraqi scalps would just have to do since we couldn’t find bin Laden’s and the other terrorists whose links were being protected by the Saudi government.


  78. Joe Sixpack says:

    Joe – Bill Clinton said the same things in the ’90’s – get up to speed….

    Comment by mighty aphrodite

    My point exactly. Bill Clinton didn’t use faulty, misleading, or crafted intelligence to get us into what is becoming a Trillion Dollar War and a decade of fruitless nation building.

    Perhaps a course in World History would help YOU get up to speed, my dear. You need to get a clue, girl.


  79. Ellen McLean says:

    If Maliki was trying to tell Sadr and all of Iraq that the Mahdi army was not going to be curbed, having obvious Sadr supporters conduct the hanging in street clothes with masks was a PR stroke of genius. Dawn of Ied (for Sunnis) was perfect timing to piss off the Sunni world (inside and outside of Iraq) no end. Derisive chanting, etc. by the execution squad was a novel exercise in motivational speech. Letting someone shoot the whole thing with a cell phone, rather than an official documentary camera crew, is so YouTube friendly and hip.

    And our brilliant folks who are supposed to be promoting coalition, compromise, and pacification didn’t see this coming…..sheesh.


  80. Cynicon Implant says:

    People have got to learn that killing people does not solve problems.

    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider

    It’s not about solving problems Wayne — it’s about justice. He got what he deserved.

    Maybe other thug leaders (hello Chavez!) will now thing more carefully before murdering their own people.


  81. JaneESchneider says:

    “Of course you did Wayne. We call some people “sympathizers” for a REASON…..and you’re VERY sympathetic…..”

    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 2:42 pm

    Yeah, and we call some people “shit for brains” for a REASON…and you have SHIT FOR BRAINS.

    Why do you keep cheerleading for GWB? You’d think that someone who is as smart as you keep telling us you are would be able to see right through the lies. Do you keep coming back here out of guilt or something, because it certainly isn’t for the warm welcome anymore.


  82. S.D. says:

    Cynicon ImplantL: Are you suggesting we imitate the fine job we did in Iraq in Venezuela?!?


  83. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    Cynicon Implant,

    Violence begets more violence. Killing people does not solve problems, nor is it the only avenue open for “justice”. And to say that someone who was hanged “got what he deserved” displays a remarkable lack of humanity. Nobody deserves to die. That’s inhuman.


  84. pk says:

    #57 Mr large point,

    You missed a point bigger than your head. The govt of Iraq is a US puppet. The US handed Saddam to the Iraqis and is therefore responsible They could have handed him over to the to the Hague. He could have had a fair trial. But no GWB just had to have his hanging. That JT is the large point which apparently escapes you.


  85. Raven says:

    We can also view the non-apprehension of a particular Saudi Arabian mastermind of terrorism through the prism of the evolving martyrdom of Saddam Hussein……………
    Did any sentient person actually believe the execution of Saddam would have a positive result?


  86. unbelievable says:

    It’s not about solving problems Wayne — it’s about justice. He got what he deserved.

    That’s not justice – it’s revenge. And it makes you the very thing you claim to be against (a murderer).

    Maybe other thug leaders (hello Chavez!) will now thing more carefully before murdering their own people.
    Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 2, 2007 @ 3:11 pm

    Unlike you, not everyone is manipulated by rightwing fear-mongering tactics.

    And incase you failed to notice – Chavez was re-elected in a landslide…


  87. Cynicon Implant says:

    Cynicon ImplantL: Are you suggesting we imitate the fine job we did in Iraq in Venezuela?!?

    Comment by S.D

    Not my point at all SD — just that the spectacle of Hussein’s death might serve to make others like him think twice. And that might prevent us from getting into another Iraq.


  88. Joe Sixpack says:

    It’s not about solving problems Wayne — it’s about justice. He got what he deserved.
    Comment by Cynicon Implant

    Hummph. I must have missed something. Back in the 1980’s, President Ronnie, Cheney, and Donald Rumsfelt thought he was a standup guy while he was killing all those Iranians in an eight year war we backed him in.

    Perhaps we need to bear some resonsibility for helping to create this monster to begin with?


  89. unbelievable says:

    Nobody deserves to die. That’s inhuman.
    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 3:17 pm

    What about animals?


  90. Raven says:

    #92….
    my view of the rapture dogma in its present form is that it is a “cut and run” paradigm…


  91. S.D. says:

    Cynicon Implant said:

    Not my point at all SD — just that the spectacle of Hussein’s death might serve to make others like him think twice. And that might prevent us from getting into another Iraq.

    Whew! Good to know!


  92. EctoEndoMezo says:

    I agree with those who have written that the Execution was:
    A) Creepy…it was very strange..there was a really “creepy” element to it..at first I did not know why I felt…weird…when the images were shown…but as I thought about it…I definitely came to the same adjective…it really was/is…CREEPY…something NOT RIGHT there…just..off.
    B) I too, was REALLY hoping that Saddam would “Spill the Beans”..Why did he not do that? Did he think he might get off, or get life if he kept his mouth shut? Did they tell him his ENTIRE family would be wiped out? (Not that he himself had too many compunctions about killing his kids..) In fact, as much as I believe Der Junior and his handlers have been invloved in EVERYTHING that has happened…the fact that Saddam, and others…are NOT spilling the beans..is really the best evidence, and maybe, frankly..the ONLY evidence..that some of the scenarios that have occurred have been more…complicated than just…Bush Did It!…I hate to admit that..but WHY are the leaders of countries that have Intelligence apperatus’ NOT telling what they know?
    Finally…
    C) MARTYR..Yup! that is for sure..and INHANCES my own belief that; THIS WHOLE “WAR” AND ALL THAT HAS ACCOMPANIED IT…IS NOT ABOUT “WINNING”…NOT ABOUT DEFEATING “TERRORISM”…NOPE! IT’S ABOUT DESTABILIZATION OF THE MIDDLE EAST, AND FAR EAST..MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE CHINESE, RUSSIANS, OR ANYONE ELSE…TO PLOP A MILITARY FORCE DOWN ON THAT O-I-L. AS LONG AS THERE IS ‘VIOLENCE’ THERE WILL BE AN EXCUSE TO KEEP THE BOOTS ON THE GROUND…ON TOP OF ALL THOSE ROTTING DINOSAURS…
    Jeezis, Folks..we are really in DEEP SHIT!
    I for one am hording supplies for the End Times…and because THERE WILL BE GIANT INSECTS AFTER THE APOCALYPSE..We have to be ready for that too..what a drag..I wish Geroge Peppard were here…damn! How am I gonna fend off all the Hordes of Screaming City Vermin in their zooped up dune buggies…without his help?..eeeeek!
    Well…my words for ‘07..? “don’t forget to duck..”
    Over and Out…


  93. BButler says:

    Hussein lived mercilessly and was executed without mercy.

    Yet the man — the human being — died with courage and poise. In contrast, the cowards who executed him covered their faces, hurling insults they dared not express publicly. In a way, I guess, he found himself a victim of his own creation. Dictators make cowards by punishing the most outspoken. Examples must be made.

    From among our current world leaders, finding themselves in Saddam’s circumstances, who would have shown the same sort of courage? The point of a trial — an honest, non-political trial — is to establish facts and to give the world (our peers) an opportunity to judge the man based upon those facts. Would we have done the same thing in his position? Are his crimes the direct result of his leadership? Should he have to assume responsibility for those killed?

    A trial gives credibility to our leadership — those who purportedly act in our name. When that trial becomes a farce — a staged event like those in the old Soviet Union — then while the verdict may stand, the outcome remains a matter of political controversy.

    The circumstances of Saddam’s hanging will make a martyr of him. His political supporters will dismiss his actual crimes as necessary or even understandable under the circumstances. We see that same dynamic operate here in the US as supporters of our leadership continue to defend the slaughter of 650,000 Iraqis.


  94. Barunio says:

    Saddam’s execution is no moral victory

    Saddam’s execution in and of itself will likely have a relatively incremental impact on the world’s views regarding the US’s observance, or lack thereof, to the rule of law — the war itself has already set those views in place. To be fair, also, the hanging was technically a product of Iraqi law.

    The problem is that Bush can’t do anything right with this war anymore, simply because there is no good course of action left. There’s only the least destructive of the various bad choices at this point. Saddam was bound to be a martyr — not in the standard religious sense, but rather because of the stability he brought to the region during his twenty years in power. By most estimates, far more Iraqi civilians have died over the past four years than during Saddam’s rule, and as Shiites come to power, Iran’s power may prove far more deadly still.

    I have presented a more thorough argument in the article linked to at the top of this post.


  95. Raven says:

    Actually, it would be a huge blessing if that particular 25 or 30 percent of Americans would be raptured next year, think of the PROGRESS that could be acheived without all that dead weight holding our country back?


  96. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    Okay, unbelievable. I know what your stance on this is, and I don’t want to get into a fight with you. But I, like all other homo sapiens sapiens, am a natural omnivore, so I will eat both plants and animals. Yes, I’ve read your posts about how going vegan has improved your life, and I am glad that this has worked out for you. But it simply wouldn’t work for me.

    But, if it makes you feel even a little bit better, I am totally opposed to sacrificing animals for religious purposes. And I oppose hunting animals for sport. (So the Vice President was wroing even before he shot a 78-year-old man in the face and then sent his friend out to lie about it.) But humans have to eat, and humans have developed into omnivorous creatures. And I’m not ready to give up my hamburger and french fries, thank you.

    But I do sincerely wish you continued success with your dietary ways. I mean that. I couldn’t do it. But I won’t kill any animals to please non-existent gods, and I won’t kill them just for the sport of it. Deal?


  97. unbelievable says:

    “The Rapture is not an exit strategy”
    Comment by nanlichi — January 2, 2007 @ 3:17 pm

    I would love to have that as a bumpersticker… (well, if I didn’t think the violent 20%ers in Georgia would vandalize my car).


  98. Eyeball Kid says:

    “There’s an old poster out west, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive.’”

    Well, angry one, that has to be a sore reminder of yet another Bush failure: to capture OBL, one way or the other. That’s the reference within the quote.

    But then, Bush never did want to capture OBL, whose only “admission” that he partook in the planning and/or execution of the 911 events came from a phony film and a poor stand-in lookalike for OBL, prepared especially for US consumption by the Office of Disinformation, or the Office of Special Plans, or the Propaganda Bureau– take your pick.

    OBL wanted US troops off Arabian “sacred” soil. This demand was promptly obeyed by Bush shortly after 911. Bush knows who has the money, and he knows to which family he and the other Bushes owed allegiance. OBL, if still alive, will never be caught. He’s an untouchable, just like Neil and Jeb and Poppy and George W. All of them are neck deep in crime, and all of them will never be held accountable.


  99. Carl Gordon says:

    It’s obveous that the liberals cant count! All the do-badders that get caut are the ones beeing kilt. The comparrisions to Vietnam are spirrious at best. Bush has one ofthe finest foregn policy teams assembled that is possible. We ARE winning in Iraq – Every day! If you can’t get on board and come in for the big kill on the enemies of liberty, than you should just go and kill yourself! Let’s support the presient 100% in everyting he does! If the past 6 years has tought us anything, it’s that the Repubilcans have restored intelligense, dignitty, and morels to the White house and the country. We are respected not only for our mite, but our integritty everywhere in the world. No peace without 100% victory and death to all enemies of America and Bush. Down with Fashists – Support Bush!!!


  100. unbelievable says:

    just that the spectacle of Hussein’s death might serve to make others like him think twice.

    About what?

    This is really a very disturbing thing to say.

    You either are paranoid and think everyone is going to act like us (pre-emptive attacks) – or you think we are the world police who have some divine right to intimisate others.

    Either way, your comment is why so many people hate America.

    And that might prevent us from getting into another Iraq.
    Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 2, 2007 @ 3:20 pm

    This has nothing to do with the first part of your post as you suggest. Let me clarify…

    Iraq did not attack us. Venezuela will not attack us, not because we scare them, but because they are more ethical than we are.

    The only way to prevent another Iraq is if we don’t attack another sovereign country. It has nothing to do with anything anyone else does or doesn’t do…


  101. JaneESchneider says:

    Man, I hope that #107 (Carl Gordon) is a joke!


  102. RUCerious says:

    Comment by Carl Gordon —
    here’s a link to kindercare – good news! They’re enrolling and have room in the pre-kindergarten for you.
    They have spelling games and read books too!
    http://www.kindercarefordummies.com


  103. unbelievable says:

    Okay, unbelievable. I know what your stance on this is, and I don’t want to get into a fight with you.

    No fight, just wanted to make it a visible issue. I think it’s too easy to forget about because we are not cows or chickens.

    But it simply wouldn’t work for me.

    Why not?

    But humans have to eat, and humans have developed into omnivorous creatures. And I’m not ready to give up my hamburger and french fries, thank you.

    Why is that?

    But I won’t kill any animals to please non-existent gods, and I won’t kill them just for the sport of it. Deal?
    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 3:32 pm

    Not my point. I have also said that I understand things eat and I understand why (I accept evolution). I just don’t see how we can say that it is wrong to kill humans and okay to kill animals. If it’s okay to kill and eat animals, why do we then shoot to kill lions and bears and other predators who eat humans.

    This isn’t personal Wayne. Just was a valid question about how we’ve elevate speople to a demi-god status that even non-religious people still seem to adhere to the system

    The more I join reality, the more glaring the human hypocrisy becomes. I know how the religious justify it. I just wondered how the non-religious do. Because I am against killing anything I don’t absolutely have to.


  104. If #107 isn't a joke, we're screwed says:

    If #107 isn’t a joke, we’re screwed! If it is a joke, well, it’s almost as funny as “The Rapture is not an exit strategy”


  105. Raven says:

    Gwbush has secured his legacy.
    In the future, the first image to apear in ones mind upon hearing his name will be
    a (very large) hangman’s noose.


  106. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    Yeah, I’m operating on the assumption that the numerous spelling errors in #107 are intentional and supposed to convey that the “speaker” is an ignorant rube. Otherwise, the speaker is an ignorant rube.


  107. sickof liberals says:

    It cracks me up that all you conspiracy theorists think that Bush executed Saddam. It was an Iraqi trial and an Iraqi execution. Maybe President Bush caused Enron to go bankrupt too.


  108. Cliff says:

    Mighty Aprodite must masturbate to pictures of Bush, Cheney and Jeff Gannon every night. He/She sounds like it’s trying to be the next Mann Coulter. Ignore this sociopath and leave her/him to their own self hatred.


  109. unbelievable says:

    It’s obveous that the liberals cant count! All the do-badders that get caut are the ones beeing kilt. The comparrisions to Vietnam are spirrious at best.
    Comment by Carl Gordon — January 2, 2007 @ 3:34 pm

    Dude, I can’t get past your horrific spelling and grammatical errors to read that. If you can’t even spell ‘killed’ properly, you don’t have any credibility anyway. Seriously – if you don’t care about basic spelling, how can we accept that you care enough to form your own opinions?


  110. dlet says:

    just that the spectacle of Hussein’s death might serve to make others like him think twice.

    About having the US plant you into power and being an ally of them? Yeah I agree with you. I don’t think any wanna-be-dictator will ever trust the US again to put them into power and not use them as a testing ground for their new weapons systems later when they tire of him.


  111. RUCerious says:

    lick of siberals
    Did Pontius Pilate crucify Christ?


  112. unbelievable says:

    It was an Iraqi trial and an Iraqi execution.
    Comment by sickof liberals — January 2, 2007 @ 3:48 pm

    If it was an Iraqi trial, then why did we have to hand custody of Saddam over to the Iraqis after the trial? Hmmm?


  113. DK says:

    Everyone stop your name calling and shouting and read this excellent article that pretty much tells it like it is about the whole SH incident.

    US Buries the Truth
    Saddam’s Execution Eliminates the Main Witness against Accomplices
    by Eric Margolis
    On my first visit to Iraq in 1976, so-called “Israeli spies” were being hanged in front of my Baghdad hotel.

    While covering Iraq just before the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam Hussein’s secret police threatened to hang me as an American/Israeli spy.

    I always considered “President Hussein,” who was hanged Friday, a sadistic bully and a loathsome megalomaniac.

    No one can accuse me of sympathy for Saddam or his fellow thugs who terrorized Iraq. But I was thoroughly disgusted and ashamed by the kangaroo court created and stage-managed by the U.S. that condemned Saddam.

    It was a disgraceful farrago of Soviet-style show trial and judicial circus. Washington, which claimed to be bringing the fruits of democracy to the benighted Arab World, put on a sinister legal farce worthy of, ironically, Saddam’s courts.

    Iraq’s deposed president, whom Osama bin Laden called “the worst Arab despot” should have faced real justice at an international legal tribunal like the UN Hague Court. That would have served warning to other despots who violated human rights and committed aggression.

    The United States did right to hand over Serb tyrant Slobodan Milosevic to the Hague. But Saddam had to be silenced before he told the world about his long collusion with the United States. Dead men tell no tales.

    Saddam’s biggest crime was not killing rebellious Kurds or Shia. As ruler of the unnatural, British-created Frankenstein state Iraq, Saddam was forced to keep putting down rebellions.

    Saintly Winston Churchill authorized the RAF to bomb Iraq’s rebellious Kurdish tribesmen with poison gas — exactly as Saddam later did. Saddam’s most brutal repression of Kurds and Shia occurred when they revolted during Iraq’s wars with Iran and the U.S.

    Saddam should have faced trial for his unprovoked 1980 aggression against Iran that ended up causing one million dead and wounded.

    But in this crime, Saddam was covertly backed by his principal accomplices, the U.S. and Britain. Donald Rumsfeld even went to Baghdad to offer Saddam arms, finance and intelligence. Hanging Saddam eliminated the main witness.

    Saddam was helped into power by the CIA, which stood by while he slaughtered Iraqi communists and Nasserites.

    The U.S. and Britain, as I discovered in Baghdad in 1990, supplied Saddam with poison gas and germs to make battlefield weapons (these were not “weapons of mass destruction.” The germs were never successfully weaponized).

    So long as Saddam was killing and torturing people America and Britain did not like, he was “our SOB.”

    But when Saddam grew too big for his britches and invaded Kuwait, he went from being the West’s regional bullyboy to devil No. 1.

    Once he touched the West’s oil in Kuwait, he was marked for death.

    Some of the tame U.S. media have been spinning Saddam’s execution as a justification for the Bush/Cheney administration’s unprovoked invasion of Iraq, without ever asking why Saddam was an ally in 1988 yet a devil in 1991 and again in 2003.

    Nor has there been much reporting that under Saddam, Iraq became the Arab world’s most industrialized nation, a leader in women’s rights, medical care, education, and public projects.

    Back in 2003, I predicted that once the U.S. got rid of old pal Saddam, it would look for another Saddam-clone to replace him. The mutant state of Iraq and its feuding peoples can only be ruled by an iron fist. Saddam’s greatest error was believing he had frightened Iraqis into a national unity that would support invasions of his neighbours. He was dead wrong.

    There are plenty of other brutal regimes that rival Saddam’s Iraq for nastiness. Most are close U.S. allies. As Henry Kissinger once quipped, being America’s ally is far more dangerous than being its enemy.

    After jubilation among Shia and Kurds over Saddam’s execution subsides, Iraq will return to its daily bloody chaos. Saddam called himself a martyr. In years to come, many Arabs will forget his many crimes and remember him as a flawed hero and martyr who dared challenge the United States and Israel, and paid the price for his audacity.

    © 2006 Toronto SunOn Dec 31, 2006


  114. S.D. says:

    #107 has to be a gag…

    “sickof liberals”? maybe I should change my Nickname to “sickof labels“…

    Don’t get me started on Enron!


  115. unbelievable says:

    The comparrisions to Vietnam are spirrious at best.
    Comment by Carl Gordon — January 2, 2007 @ 3:34 pm

    I doubt anyone who could use the word ’spurious’ properly is either a parody or just mimicking a FAUX talking head…

    Yeah Jane and Wayne – you’re probably right that it’s not real.


  116. Cynicon Implant says:

    You either are paranoid and think everyone is going to act like us (pre-emptive attacks) – or you think we are the world police who have some divine right to intimisate others.

    Either way, your comment is why so many people hate America.

    Comment by unbelievable

    All I am saying is that sitting by passively while facist leaders repress and kill their own people is not a great long term strategy (for them or us). I don’t think we have a divine right to “initimisate” (sounds kinda kinky!) others, but I’m glad Saddam is dead and the world is better for it.

    If that opinion is making people hate America then so be it. My question to you is why do YOU hate America?


  117. ForTruth says:

    Mighty,

    Would you think the Vatican is a terrorist sympathiser, since they condemned Saddam’s execution?


  118. RUCerious says:

    DK#124 – Nice post. But I still want Carl to enroll at kindercarefordummies


  119. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    113 unbelievable,

    When it comes to killing in general, I do not believe it’s justified except to save your own life or the lives of those in your care (your kids or spouse or others in your charge). If a lion or bear or other predator were actively killing humans in an area, then I could accept killing that animal if it was trying to harm Jane or me. And if they want to send a posse out to kill it, then I hope they kill the right animal (and not one that wasn;t hurting people.)

    And if you want to know the real truth, I’m a fussy eater, and my hamburgers and french fries are one of the few foods I like to eat. I won’t give them up voluntarily because I like them. It may not be the best answer in the world, but it is the truth.


  120. Marshall says:

    We missed our chance to mess with the heads of our enemies:

    We should have said that Saddam’s crimes were indeed terrible, but in the name of Allah the Most Merciful, we were commuting his sentence to life in prison. (!)

    Then the Shiites and Sunnis would have been *totally* confused about how to feel about the US. :-)


  121. nanlichi says:

    “The Rapture is not an exit strategy” isn’t original, I picked up the meme here and I thought it was great. I told the poster then that I was going to steal it. It captures the religious aspect of Bush’s War, as well as the lack of a plan, and the deus ex machina wishful thinking of the neocons.


  122. unbelievable says:

    All I am saying is that sitting by passively while facist leaders repress and kill their own people is not a great long term strategy (for them or us).

    But it’s okay for us to kill other people? That IS what we are doing in Iraq.

    There are alternatives to violent force that winds up making us what we said we are against by killing more innocent people that Saddam did. Have you considered that?

    I don’t think we have a divine right to “initimisate” (sounds kinda kinky!) others, but I’m glad Saddam is dead and the world is better for it.

    My typing sucks… (the ’s’ is next to the ‘d’)…

    How is the world better that he is dead rather than in prison? Seriously – please explain that to me.

    If that opinion is making people hate America then so be it. My question to you is why do YOU hate America?
    Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 2, 2007 @ 3:57 pm

    I don’t hate America. It’s why I want it to stop doing things that make it hated. We live on this planet – we need to figure out how to get along with our co-inhabitants, instead of attacking them because we think they might do something….


  123. cwbaris says:

    Don’t they get it? The worst thing that can happen to Islamic extremists is being locked up, and throw away the key. Good old progressive treat’em as criminals justice!


  124. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    I like the way you think. :-)


  125. Kate says:

    You have to love it when people say that the Bushies tried to stop the Iraq government from executing Saddam. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. I would be willing to bet anything that Bush ordered Malaki to immediately execute Saddam, to keep him quiet. It doesn’t really matter, though. Any reasonably intelligent American knows how former american presidents (including Bush’s daddy) helped Saddam become what he was and only turned on him once he told us to take a hike.


  126. sickof liberals says:

    In response to 121, I hope to God you aren’t saying that Saddam was Christ, and either way that is the weakest argument I have ever heard. 122, you are absolutely right. I don’t want to fight all 100+ posts, because I dont have time to argue with all of you, and I should have not said “Bush” but “Bush and Co.” as stated in the numerous posts above. 123, we handed him over before the trial started, and it was an International Tribunal. America had nothing to do with the decision to execute him and he got what he deserved. All you liberal wimps need to get tough or we will all soon be speaking Arabic. Remember, Hitler never attacked us either.


  127. unbelievable says:

    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 4:01 pm

    Wayne – thanks for your answer. I may wholly disagree with it and not think it is one of your usually convincing arguments :), but I appreciate your response.

    I think that the better solution to preventing animals from killing people is for people to stop violating their habitats with human communities. We really have zero respect for the other living things on this planet, and force them to conform and cater to our human-centric existence. And when they do what they are naturally inclined to do – we murder them and say it is because people are better. I think it helps explain why we’ve polluted and destroyed the planet to the point that we have.

    I used to like steak myself. I guess I just couldn’t live with the guilt.


  128. James says:

    The world did NOT think Saddam had WMD. Only the U.S. did based on known FALSE information.

    Second. Saddam was in fact cooperating with the U.N. It was Bush who
    kicked the U.N. out of Iraq. Bush wanted to attack Iraq before 9/11.

    The U.N. resolution did NOT give authorization to anyone to attack Iraq.

    Third, Saddam didn’t do anything another country wouldn’t do in the name of National Security. Including the U.S. Which is holding people without trial and murdering them in jail.

    Fourth, The U.S. supported all of Saddam’s actions in the 1980’s , INCLUDING the gassing of the Kruds. In Fact, Reagan stopped Congress from holding hearings on the matter.

    Fifth, The U.S. government, with U.S. private industry, helped Saddam start his WMD programs during the 1980’s. Those same programs were destroyed after the first Gulf War. They did not exist by 2003.

    Saddam was an over zealous Bush. Bush would use the exact same tactics and methods if Bush could get away with it.

    Before 2003, there was one Saddam in Iraq; Now you have dozens upon dozens of Saddams in Iraq.

    The main point about Saddam wasn’t about executing him. The main point was to show that the new Iraq was BETTER than when Saddam was in power: The new Iraq FAILED miserably.

    It’s no different than Saddam.

    The execution could have been done correctly. The trial could have been done correctly. There were not.

    Shakespeare was right: “What fools these mortals be!”


  129. mighty aphrodite says:

    #76 – “People like you wouldconsider education ‘infection’. It’s why the system is so screwed up to begin with. Your kind can’t handle the reality of evolution,…” – Comment by unbelievable
    ******You’re not very good at guessing what people “consider”. And being incapable of arguing competently, you throw in “evolution”, which I believe in. Your bias would prevent you from becoming a good teacher – that same bias allows you to infect the minds of your students. Poor kids – - I feel sorry for their poor parents….

    “So if you wanna claim a ‘cease-fire’ (which is bull$hit), then you have to accept that the first war was also illegal.”
    ******According to the BBC:
    “1991: Jubilation follows Gulf War ceasefire
    The guns are silent and the war is over in the Gulf.

    A ceasefire was announced in Washington by President George Bush after Iraq accepted all 12 resolutions made by the United Nations. ”

    Evidence once again that you are an idiot. The first War in the Gulf followed the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq, which may have been fine with you, but was not in America’s best interest – yes, OIL.

    “Here’s another violation for you. You cannot remove a sovereign elected leader. Spin that one.” –
    *******You can if they have invaded their neighbours…..moron.

    I’ll allow you continue posting your exaggerated lies and other worn-out philosophies without challenge. You’re not worth the effort and honest people – right, left, or center – may agree you don’t know much, as I’ve just demonstrated…..


  130. Matthew C. Nisbet says:

    Over at Framing Science, I’ve got those posts comparing US media coverage of the execution to worldwide reaction.

    http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/2007/01/us_media_ignores_world_critici.php


  131. Yikes says:

    “The Rapture is not an exit strategy”
    Comment by nanlichi — January 2, 2007 @ 3:17 pm

    I would love to have that as a bumpersticker… (well, if I didn’t think the violent 20%ers in Georgia would vandalize my car).
    Comment by Unbelievable

    Unbelievable, what you do is buy a few hundred bumper stickers with “The Rapture is not an exit strategy” and then place them on vehicles you see that have any religious crap on or in it.


  132. unbelievable says:

    123, we handed him over before the trial started,

    No, we didn’t hand him over until December 29th. We handed him over and they then executed him.

    and it was an International Tribunal. America had nothing to do with the decision to execute him and he got what he deserved.

    Says who? You? Your invisible sky god? LOL

    All you liberal wimps need to get tough or we will all soon be speaking Arabic. Remember, Hitler never attacked us either.
    Comment by sickof liberals — January 2, 2007 @ 4:10 pm

    Again – your fear mongering might work on you – but it doesn’t work on us. Because, sol, if what you say were even remotely true, then why aren’t Islamic Extremists attacking Sweden or Switzerland for that matter?

    Hitler declared war on us, after which his ally Japan did attack us. Remember?


  133. Yikes says:

    MA – “Your bias would prevent you from becoming a good teacher”

    But your bias makes you a good lawyer? Your so funny MA. Do you do parties?


  134. Tom says:

    Comment by sickof liberals

    we handed him over before the trial started, and it was an International Tribunal. America had nothing to do with the decision to execute him and he got what he deserved.

    While I am sure everybody agrees Saddam ‘got what he deserved’, you are incorrect in saying that the US handed Saddam over ‘before the trial started’. The US had its hand in EVERY decision by the Iraqi courts and counselors. According to USA Today, the US officially ‘handed him over’ a few minutes prior to his hanging party. And BTW, you are not fighting 100+ comments, you are fighting over 60% of the American public. You know, your neighbors and friends. Your comment about Hitler not attacking us is naive and historically questionable given the many treaties we had/have with countries in Europe (now and before WWII).


  135. James says:

    >Hitler never attacked us either.

    acculy , He declared open war on us.

    The odds were in Hitler’s favor at that moment:

    German Army: 2 million+ professional troops with 3 years war experience with better guns and tanks than U.S.

    American Army: 130,000. Low hitting powered guns, Hardly any tanks, Bad tanks to boot. Gas driven vs. German diesel.

    Yep. American army was a laughing stock at that time period.

    Not percieved by Hitler. American manufacturing power that could make up the difference over time. Good thing Germans couldn’t bomb the plants making all that war hardware.


  136. S.D. says:

    “Remember, Hitler never attacked us either.”
    “sickof liberals” Actually, Nazi Germany declared war on us first…


  137. mighty aphrodite says:

    For Truth – Re: the Vatican Terror sympathizer?

    *******I am nominally anti-death penalty. But the thought of the murdering Saddam dangling didn’t keep me up at night. Like GWB, I slept like a baby. The Vatican generously advocates peace anytime, everywhere under any circumstance. (Sounds a bit like your crowd…) They should probably stick to spiritual issues and leave political commentary to politicians.

    Off to confer…


  138. Tom says:

    #145 – unbelievable is wise.


  139. worldvisitor says:

    What a shame that a tyrant was treated to a mickey mouse sham of justice rather than being handed over to the criminal court in the Hague.
    The hanging itself may have been done by “Iraqis”, but don’t forget these justices have been pulled together by Americans and taught how to conduct this trial. Shows again that the goings on in Iraq are a sad excuse for democracy. Saddam’s trial shown in bits on Tv was a major joke and the removal of a judge and the murders of three or more of Hussein’s defence team and others too afraid to even enter the country show this was nothing more than a quickie show to say “He had a “”fair”" trial”. Since he was under the guard of Americans until the time of execution and then it was announced immediately after the death he was handed back to Americans to dispose of the body, leads one to believe that the Bush administration holds just as much blame for this spectacle as Iraqis. No one will cry over his death, but Iraq could have been a better beacon of justice rather than now being considered that their only form of justice is any means to exact revenge. The joke is what about the second trial they were in the middle of? Why did they even start it in the first place when they knew they were going to hang him within the 30 day time limit?
    Now American soldiers who will have something to look forward to as more are sent over in the “surge” that we will all know Bush will decide on soon. I guess he can use the anger over the hanging to justify his going against every other sane voice in America telling him it is time perhaps to back off a little and make Iraqis accountable for themselves. Unfortunately, accountability seems to be sorely lacking in both countries.


  140. hellinabucket says:

    MA, you never did (could) answer my questions.

    Why won’t this administration allow oversight on the spending and why would you continue to support an administration if they don’t allow oversight?

    There is no bias in these questions. It’s not slanted to the left. They are honest questions that any true democracy would want answered. It’s been 3 years of emergency spending. When will this administration come out from under the shroud and show us where our dollars are going.

    You sound so tough bantering with others on this site but you have no answer for these that would hold up to any scrutiny.


  141. James says:

    oops – :actuality.

    bad keyboard bad.


  142. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    My comment in #137 was actually meant for Marshall’s comment in #133, but I would say the same for cwbaris in #136. (I accidentally typed over the opening comment.)

    unbelievable,

    Yes, human encroachment on animal habitats is a problem and often one of the causes of attacks on humans and, from the animal’s perspective, justifiable. And it would certainly benefit mankind to have a greater understanding of our place in nature, whatever that may be. (That reminds me, there’s a great company at http://www.despair.com that sells “de-motivational” office supplies. They ridicule all those “motivational sayings.” Two of my favorites are, “The race for quality has no finish line so, technically, it’s more like a death march.” and “It could be that your purpose in life is to serve as an example to others.” Though I am still firmly atheist, I sometimes wonder if this wasn’t supposed to man’s intended role.)

    Peace to you, friend.


  143. mighty aphrodite says:

    Yikes – You would need help at parties – you’re NOT funny….I am paid to advocate for my client. I am paid to make sure their Constitutional Rights are not abridged. Period. My bias is for my client. A teacher is not supposed to infect students – the teacher is supposed to uplift students through infor mation and critical thinking.
    ’til later……


  144. ForTruth says:

    Mighty,

    Deciding whether or not to take a human being’s life is purly political to you? How does that not involve spirituality? Removing the spirit from a person’s body, ie: killing them.


  145. Republicans are the fear and smear party says:

    #150…you and GWB slept like babies because you are babies. The death penalty is barbaric, even for Saddam, GWB, or you.


  146. The Radical Left says:

    I think the left has exposed themselves yet again as radical terrorist sympathizers. Brokaw should be forced to live in Sadam’s regime for a month and then see how he likes it.


  147. Robert says:

    Mighty aphrodite,

    The “whole world” thought Saddam had WMDs?
    You need to get out more. And while you’re at it, don’t let the shills shout down those who said Saddam didn’t have WMDs, like–oh, I don’t know–the UN Weapons inspectors maybe.


  148. unbelievable says:

    You’re not very good at guessing what people “consider”.

    Of course I am, it’s why you hate me so much. I see through all your bull$hit and call you on your lies.

    And being incapable of arguing competently, you throw in “evolution”, which I believe in.

    LOL. You don’t ‘believe’ in Evolution… you either accept it or not. It’s silly religious nonsense that needs tobe ‘believed’ in… LOL You really are way too old to be that childlike in your poor use of the English language.

    Your bias would prevent you from becoming a good teacher – that same bias allows you to infect the minds of your students.

    As I pointed out already, you demonstrate regularlythat you think education is infection.

    Besides, you have no reasoning or logical ability at all. So, you can speculate all you want – but your lack of credibility makes your opinion worth less than air you spout it into.

    Poor kids – - I feel sorry for their poor parents….

    Why? Do they tell sick dead children jokes likey ou do?

    ******According to the BBC:
    “1991: Jubilation follows Gulf War ceasefire
    The guns are silent and the war is over in the Gulf.

    LOL… you are such a joke. The BBC using the word does not make it a mandate. LOL

    A ceasefire was announced in Washington by President George Bush after Iraq accepted all 12 resolutions made by the United Nations. ”

    Bush using the word does not make it a fact either. LOL. Damn, you really are bad at this. How can you expect anyone to honestly thinkyou’re an attorney? No way in Hell… LOL

    Evidence once again that you are an idiot.

    My IQ gets me into Mensa. My deflating of your arguments further demonstrates that the only idiot between us is you. LOL. You are really funny… You think you’re actually making an argument. ha ha ha

    The first War in the Gulf followed the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq, which may have been fine with you, but was not in America’s best interest – yes, OIL.

    So you admit to being pre-emptive… You just busted your own argument. Incompetent people usually do at some point. LOL

    You can if they have invaded their neighbours…..moron.

    Cite that International Law… moron.

    I’ll allow you continue posting your exaggerated lies and other worn-out philosophies without challenge. You’re not worth the effort and honest people – right, left, or center – may agree you don’t know much, as I’ve just demonstrated…..
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 4:15 pm

    Translation: MA cannot actually refute anything I say with facts, so he pretends to be dimissing me after he’s spent the last few hours at work attempting to insult me.

    LOL. Now this is cheap entertainment…


  149. unbelievable says:

    Unbelievable, what you do is buy a few hundred bumper stickers with “The Rapture is not an exit strategy” and then place them on vehicles you see that have any religious crap on or in it.
    Comment by Yikes — January 2, 2007 @ 4:16 pm

    LOL… that is truly priceless. :)


  150. ForTruth says:

    Comment by The Radical Left

    Is the Pope and the entire Vatican radical terrorist sympathizers?


  151. Krazny says:

    Saddam is dead numbnuts, noone is going to live in his regime anymore.


  152. worldvisitor says:

    In regards to 159
    I think the left has exposed themselves yet again as radical terrorist sympathizers. Brokaw should be forced to live in Sadam’s regime for a month and then see how he likes it.

    Comment by The Radical Left —

    I would imagine that most Iraqis would much prefer to live under the Saddam regime than what they are being forced to endure today.


  153. jOE sLATER says:

    I watched CNN for several minutes and then turned it off. I can think of nothing more grusome than hanging. Beyond that, what purpose did it serve? It only showed how dispictable our country & Iraq has become.
    Unfortunately, the world already knows that our President has damaged, not only our respect, but everything else we stand for. It will take decades, if ever, to repair the damage he has inflicted.


  154. Debate - unbridled naivete says:

    [...] Take, for example, this page from ThinkProgress. It outlines comments from Tom Brokaw’s appearance this morning on The Don Imus Show. Brokaw, commenting on the execution of Saddam Hussein, agrees with Imus that there are is almost no way the execution could have gone worse. [...]


  155. James says:

    >Brokaw should be forced to live in Sadam’s regime for a month and then see how he likes it.

    Aw shoot. That’s easy.

    Support the boss, like the GOP supports Bush and you’ll get all kinds of goodies.

    Brokaw would be living a pretty good life.


  156. Tom says:

    I think the left has exposed themselves yet again as radical terrorist sympathizers.

    Comment by The Radical Left

    I guess now we should start packing for those not so secret prisons being built by halliburton, huh? I think the Iraqi people have said that living under Saddam WAS better than it is now. Well, what do they know, right? Another unwise comment by a chickenhawk. Please stop drinking the kool-aid.


  157. ForTruth says:

    What does organized religion say about revenge?


  158. JaneESchneider says:

    “I’ll allow you continue posting your exaggerated lies and other worn-out philosophies without challenge. You’re not worth the effort and honest people – right, left, or center – may agree you don’t know much…”
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 4:15 pm

    Why, it’s almost like it’s trying to parrot human speech! Has the mighty parrot heard these words spoken to it so many times that it can repeat them verbatim? What a clever parrot! All those big words!


  159. Marie says:

    I hope #107 Carl Gordon will return and confirm that his post is a parody. He mimics the ignorant and yet faithful followers of Bush&Co, Fox news and other propagandists because they are simply too ignorant to read anything and learn anything other than what they are told. His rant full of misspellings and distorted thoughts exemplify what many of the trolls, and 28% of the people around the nation believe. And I say believe because their belief is based solely on faith which requires no evidence of fact or proof.


  160. unbelievable says:

    unbelievable is wise.
    Comment by Tom — January 2, 2007 @ 4:25 pm

    Why thank you. I have to give most of the credit to reality. Ever since I met it, I just sorta call it like I see it, and it’s been working pretty well :)

    I actually grew up in a religious rightwing family. :D


  161. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    My IQ gets me into Mensa.
    Comment by unbelievable

    Hey, me, too! I was in it for a couple of years while I was stationed at Andrews, AFB, back in the early eighties.
    (I ate burgers there, too! :-) )


  162. angry.in.NJ says:

    Has anyone heard of the CONTRA WARS. What is happening right now in Iraq is the classic Divide and Conquer strategm. It is called in military parlance THE SALVADOR OPTION because thats where it was believed to have been used to perfection. Divide and Conquer is a classic way to leave a war that has become unwinnable example: What was formerly India and is now Pakistan and India. Pakistan now mostly Muslim and India mostly Hindu only formented through England.


  163. terri says:

    Americans — and indeed the world — deserve better than this House of Shams. Bush was placed into office via a sham decision after a sham election. He declared a war via the use of sham intelligence. He has instituted sham policies, based on sham “science” and the sham “advice” of lobbyists and corporate interests disguised as consultants. He has given the American people sham “facts” about policies both foreign and domestic, and now he has killed Saddam Hussein in the wake of a sham trial.

    But the money changing hands is real and bushco shammers are laughing all the way to the bank.


  164. Republicans are the fear and smear party says:

    Every civilized country in the world condemns the death penalty. Bush believes that the death penalty is the “common ground” that will unite America and Iraq and enlighten the rest of the world to what a great thing killing is.


  165. bascombe says:

    If you want more violance, so you can have an excuse to send more troops, while further dividing Iraq along sectarian lines and similtaneously mounting an offensive against the Shia (Moqtada), while trying to placate and then incite the Sunni, well, you have the bush plan in a WINGNUTshell.


  166. Joe says:

    as an american living in europe, i think that we should forget about what the arabs think of us and our system. some of our friends right here in western europe believe we are atrocious cowboys out of control and don’t trust us one iota or our supposed legal system. of course the reality is better than perception, but perception is what counts. just ask the neocons. if we aren’t living up to our potential as examples for the rest of the civilized world, how are we going to convince the animals in the middle east? let’s fix our house before we try to fix others. the ‘06 elections were a start. let’s all be hopeful.


  167. James says:

    >faith

    faith? You must have meant “pretend”.

    Remember. There is a reason why religion is based on “belief” and not fact.

    No one, and I mean no one seems to record anything when a religion begins as eyewitness.

    I guess it’s not all that important to get the beginning correct so there’s no dispute later on.


  168. Losalmon says:

    MA-

    If you subscribe to the “but they do it” mindset then you are either a child or have no moral integrity.


  169. Tom says:

    Comment by unbelievable

    Why thank you. I have to give most of the credit to reality.

    I love reality. It is not as complicated as some would imagine. Maybe MA can give reality a try – he may like it.


  170. Navin says:

    Tom Brokaw is an idiot. The public execution is a deliberate attempt to other thugs, inspite of our civilization, we can get down and dirty, if you want us to. We leaked the execution, so that other thugs like Hugo Chavaz, Ahmedinezad and Assad etc would be shitting in their pants.

    Let’s face it, the execution is grusome and all the thugs will see it as grusome and it will give them shivers.


  171. Navin says:

    Tom Brokaw is an idiot. The public execution is a deliberate attempt to other thugs, inspite of our civilization, we can get down and dirty, if you want us to. We leaked the execution, so that other thugs like Hugo Chavaz, Ahmedinezad and Assad etc would be shitting in their pants.

    Let’s face it, the execution is grusome and all the thugs will see it as grusome and it will give them shivers.


  172. tablogloid says:

    #107, Here are your typos:
    obveous caut beeing kilt comparrisions spirrious foregn presient tought intelligense, dignitty, and morels mite integritty Fashists.

    I hope your post is a joke otherwise you are a great spokesperson for the Bushies.


  173. bennofs says:

    I heard rumor MA was actually Ann Coulter. Doesn’t that just fit ? She’s not getting much press these days what with pending litigation and possible voter fraud and everything. So it’s probably best to just ignore her/him, whatever it might be.
    Starve the beast.


  174. unbelievable says:

    Though I am still firmly atheist, I sometimes wonder if this wasn’t supposed to man’s intended role.)

    I suppose it’s possible… Though I personally think that the only purpose one has is the purpose which he or she assigns to his or her own existence. The universe regularly demostrates its indifference to us and the things we do.

    My ex-boyfriend was an Atheist – but unhappy about it. He felt that life would be easier if someone would just tell him his purpose and save him the pain of trying to divine it for himself. I never told him how funny that sounded… :)

    Peace to you, friend.
    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 4:28 pm

    You as well :)


  175. unbelievable says:

    Yikes – You would need help at parties – you’re NOT funny….
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 4:28 pm

    Wrong yet again… Yikes is hilarious. It is YOU who is not funny.


  176. kimo says:

    Wrong one was executed


  177. Tom says:

    Let’s face it, the execution is grusome and all the thugs will see it as grusome and it will give them shivers.

    Comment by Navin

    No it won’t sir. Everyday the world sees what mr bush has created and what he created is a paper tiger.


  178. unbelievable says:

    Mighty aphrodite,
    The “whole world” thought Saddam had WMDs?
    You need to get out more.
    Comment by Robert — January 2, 2007 @ 4:31 pm

    Oh, MA, ouch! Really – ow! You’re getting spanked by your fellow conservatives for your ignorance. That’s gotta hurt!

    Good job Robert.


  179. hellinabucket says:

    Since MA can’t seem to answer some simple questions I’ll open it up to any other right winged poster.

    Why won’t this administration allow oversight on the spending and why would you continue to support an administration if they don’t allow oversight?

    Is this question too hard?


  180. alex dobos says:

    I’m not usprised at all. Bush is the first politician in the entire history of mankind who systematically screws up EVERYTHING… without exception. Saddam’s lynching is just the latest one. This Iraq war is about the dumbest thing anybody could have done in the middle-east.
    1. We stay & the entire region blows up in about a year.
    2. We wthdraw & it blows in 1/2 a year.
    3. We attack Iran & it explodes instantly.
    And, of course, there will be no oil. You figure the rest.
    No solution at this point!


  181. impeachcheneythenbush says:

    #

    Did Saddam Hussein kill more Iraqi civilians per year than either George Bush?

    Comment by Empires Fall — January 2, 2007 @ 2:58 pm

    The number I’ve seen is 300,000 over a period of about 30 years. So far, GW has enabled the killing of 3,000 American troops and over 600,000 Iraqis in a period of under 4 years. And some believe close to 3,000 on U.S. soil on 911 (if there’s any truth to the 911 conspiracy idea).


  182. ForTruth says:

    So if MENSA lets you in, then you have a TBI, do they still keep you?

    TBI=Traumatic brain injury.

    MENSA kicked me out for saying girls are smarter than boys. /sarcasm


  183. unbelievable says:

    What does organized religion say about revenge?
    Comment by ForTruth — January 2, 2007 @ 4:36 pm

    That it is good…. And that is its bad.

    You know – the whole contradictory problem…


  184. RUCerious says:

    #139 – You really are an idiot!
    I was comparing culpability. Just because Pilate didn’t crucify Jesus doesn’t exculpate him, does it? Just because Bush handed over Sadaam to the Shia for execution doesn’t exculpate him, does it?
    He was no danger to anyone locked up, and what of the Kurds and other groups who wanted to try him for the other crimes he committed?
    Aren’t they denied justice and having their grievances aired?
    To make a martyr of him at this point in time was a dumbass decision from a dumbass decider.


  185. Dawn Shev says:

    America has become the monster it seemed so hell-bent on destroying. We (Americans) have lost our credibility with our allies and the world as a whole. We’ve allowed an inept administration to lead us into the abyss. We cannot stand on the world stage as a leader without our big, bullying club, which has lead us nowhere. Who are we going to hunt next now that GW has tasted blood?


  186. unbelievable says:

    I love reality. It is not as complicated as some would imagine. Maybe MA can give reality a try – he may like it.
    Comment by Tom — January 2, 2007 @ 4:49 pm

    I’ve never met anyone on the right who tried it and didn’t. But most of them see it as a college boyfriend did blue cheese. He’d never tried it, but he hated how it tasted just the same… LOL


  187. ItsJustKarma says:

    It’s easy to imagine:

    Published By Harper’s:

    © Saddam Hussein – ‘God Damn America And Bush’
    ‘My Life With The Lies And Betrayals Of Uncle Sam’


  188. Bluedog49 says:

    Brokaw thought this swaggering, insecure bully who likes to pretend he’s a cowboy was preferable to Al Gore. Bush just seemed like a nicer guy to Tom. Nice going, Tom.


  189. M. Manojlovic says:

    I’ve come to believe that the Bush regime is neither stupid nor incompetant. They are simply championing their own cause, domination being the end game. We’re all busy talking about what a mess they’ve gotten us into but has anyone stopped to think that this is maybe part of the package, causing us to look away from what is really going down. It’s quit simple, DIVIDE AND CONQUER. Let them kill each other off as much as possible then we can more easily divide up the country into factions that will ultimately be easier to control, US friendly states. Oh, how nice that would be. It’s not a cooincidence. The assassinations in Labanon,(then blaming the Syrians..ridiculous), Palestinian civil unrest(uh-huh) Iraqi civil war(ooh). Can someone plaease define INSURGENT? It’s all by design! Plans are in the works for a strike on Iran, with the help of Israel of course which is why they must keep the troop levels up, surging as they call it. As for Saddam….the amount of coverage his execution received was off the charts according to any reasonable minded person’s sick-scale. How dare they turn that into such a pathetic circus that FOX was all too happy bite their teeth into. Then their comments, I mean….” So now the Iraqi people can finally be assured that this terrible dictator will never return…..blah-blah-blah”. Are you kidding? At this point Iraqi’s are longing and praying for the good ‘ol Saddam days gone by. They are living in sqallor, filth, devestation, disgrace and fear, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Bush’s war crimes, and wait, here’s the best part, the US is responsible for S.H’s bad behavior. He was our bitch for so long, and we did love our bitch, make no mistake about it. The US paid it out long and hard for good ‘ol Saddam and there was a time when he was grateful to his masters, but this weekend all that changed. We’ve been showing ‘em the ropes since the 60’s but Saturday the rope sure showed him! So keep shuck’n and jive’n Dubya and voila, now it’s really gonna hit the fan.


  190. unbelievable says:

    Let’s face it, the execution is grusome and all the thugs will see it as grusome and it will give them shivers.
    Comment by Navin — January 2, 2007 @ 4:50 pm

    Oh, let me point out the fallacy in your logic…

    If capital punishment was a valid deterent, then after thousands of years of killing criminals, why do we now have considerably more criminals instead of none? Hmmm?


  191. pony says:

    Saddam killed before they kill him. We are doing the same kill before they kill us. Why we are in this mess for goodness sake? Is it OIL, WMD, or SADDAM. I think Saddam became a martyre because he was hanged while his country is occupied by a foreign country.


  192. hellinabucket says:

    FA, you have a way with words. Still waiting to hear from MA on why is it permissible for this administration to continue to obscure the actual costs of the conflict (never been declared a war by congress) and why would someone support an administration that doesn’t submit to oversight.

    She’s much more comfortable thrown incindiary slants than defending any actual position.


  193. Wayne A. Schneider says:

    What does organized religion say about revenge?
    Comment by ForTruth — January 2, 2007 @ 4:36 pm

    I may be just another God-denying atheist, but I seem to recall hearing things like, “Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.” So it sounds like humans are not supposed to be in the revenge business, according to “organized religion” (at least one of them, anyway.) Sorry, Inigo Montoya.


  194. mighty aphrodite says:

    “Why won’t this administration allow oversight on the spending and why would you continue to support an administration if they don’t allow oversight?” – Hellinabucket

    ******I don’t know – maybe they went to the President Johnson Institute of Accounting. I am a proponent of oversight -and I suggest you write many editorials on this issue ……


  195. Karl Rove Ees A Nutcase! says:

    Marie #172 — I think #107 was high. Either that of W was allowed to use the computer when nobody was watching!


  196. unbelievable says:

    So if MENSA lets you in, then you have a TBI, do they still keep you?
    Comment by ForTruth — January 2, 2007 @ 4:58 pm

    No clue. I never joined – just took the test. The ones I knew were social lepers and I’m about balance.

    Isn’t the highest IQ recorded that of a woman? Marilyn vos Savant (interestingly)… The highest grade in my Architecture class last semester was a girl. And I gave her considerably less assistance with her projects than the boys who were always saying “I need your help with this.” She would just say “I’m good.” And obviously she was… :)


  197. Bluedog49 says:

    Saddam’s hanging will “send shivers” down the spines of other dictators???!!! Not on this planet. Capital punishment doesn’t even keep guys from killing their girlfriends. It’s not about to mean anything to a despot.


  198. pony says:

    Saddam killed before they killed him. We are doing the same kill before they kill us. I think he will be a martyre because he was executed while his country is occupied by a foreign country.


  199. unbelievable says:

    Sorry, Inigo Montoya.
    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 2, 2007 @ 5:09 pm

    Inconceivable! :D


  200. hellinabucket says:

    Great non answer flighty far righty. For over 3 years now this current (keep it current so we don’t confuse any other issues) administration has not provided proper projections, proper accountability on the money that they have been requesting. They have been asking for emergency spending that doesn’t get the same scrutiny as an actual budget.

    You only half assed the first part of the question and ignored the second part. Why would you continue to support an administration that has not allowed oversight.

    Simple question and it goes to the heart of my issue with this president. So if you want to continue throwing your crap around but can’t answer why you would support someone in this free society that will not show us where the money is going you have no argument.

    None.


  201. Gregor Samsa says:

    [...] than the boys who were always saying “I need your help with this.”
    Comment by unbelievable — January 2, 2007 @ 5:13 pm

    Well… this can be explained in a couple of other ways… ;-)


  202. mighty aphrodite says:

    “My IQ gets me into Mensa.” – unbelievable….

    *****They felt sorry for you and put a “1″ in front of the 5 and the 7. Seriously, You’re sooooo precious – you have this weird NEEED to produce your resume and be loved by all breathing creatures. The really good news – you’re not in a position to do too much damage.

    You poor thing – I demonstrate the fallacy of your argument and you discuss religion and evolution. Pitiful……


  203. johnny plumber says:

    Here’s what one famous clergyman had to say about Christianity and war:
    Address to The League of Nations, Geneva 1925 [excerpt]
    by Harry Emerson Fosdick

    “The early Christian Church”, says a recent writer, “was the first peace society.’ Then came Christianity’s growing power – the days when Christians, no longer outcast, were stronger than their adversaries, until at last the imperial household of Constantine himself accepted Christianity. Then Christianity, joined with the state, forgot its earlier attitudes, bowed to the necessities of imperial action, became sponsor for war, blesser of war, cause of war, fighter of war. Since then the Church has come down through history too often trying to carry the cross of Jesus in one hand and a dripping sword in the other, until now when Christians look out upon the consequence of it all, this abysmal disgrace of Christendom making mockery of the Gospel, the conviction rises that we would better go back to our first traditions, our early purity, and see whether those first disciples of the Lord were not nearer right than we have been.

    We cannot reconcile Jesus Christ and war – that is the essence of the matter. That is the challenge which today should stir the conscience of Christendom. War is the most colossal and ruinous social sin that afflicts mankind; it is utterly and irremediably unchristian; in its total method and effect it means everything that Jesus did not mean and it means nothing that he did mean.
    It would be worth while, would it not, to see the Christian Church claim as her own this greatest moral issue of our time, to see her lift once more a clear standard against the paganism of this present world and, refusing to hold her conscience at the beck and call of belligerent states, put the kingdom of God above nationalism and call the world to peace? That would not be the denial of patriotism but its apotheosis.


  204. RUCerious says:

    Comment by Navin —
    Navin? Navin Johnson? That You?
    You still owe me for going crosseyed with those goddamn glasses grabbers, you SOB!


  205. el kanuckistani says:

    85
    Maybe other thug leaders (hello Chavez!) will now thing more carefully before murdering their own people.

    Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 2, 2007 @ 3:11 pm

    At least Chavez was elected, then re-elected (and as well had his first election re-affirmed midterm). bush has accomplished none of the above, and has probably “executed” more people in his time as Governor of Texas then Chavez has (if he has) in his lifetime.
    I know the spin machine is trying to make Chavez out to be a dictator, but just because he doesn’t take orders from a non elected president of the U.S. does not make him a dictator. Unlike bush, he has the numbers to truely claim to be an ELECTED leader of a DEMOCRATIC country.

    94
    Not my point at all SD — just that the spectacle of Hussein’s death might serve to make others like him think twice. And that might prevent us from getting into another Iraq.

    Comment by Cynicon Implan
    The only thing that will prevent the U.S. from getting into another Iraq will be people like those posting on sites like this.

    107
    f the past 6 years has tought us anything, it’s that the Repubilcans have restored intelligense, dignitty, and morels to the White house and the country.

    Morels are mushrooms. Intelligense and dignitty are the result of cutbacks to spending in education!

    128
    All I am saying is that sitting by passively while facist leaders repress and kill their own people is not a great long term strategy (for them or us). I don’t think we have a divine right to “initimisate” (sounds kinda kinky!) others, but I’m glad Saddam is dead and the world is better for it.

    If that opinion is making people hate America then so be it. My question to you is why do YOU hate America?

    Comment by Cynicon Implant

    But you don’t sit by while facist leaders repress and kill their own. You put them in place and prop them up as long as they follow orders from the U.S. That is what people hate about the U.S. (few people hate Canada, Mexico and all the rest of America) Does that answer your question?

    139
    All you liberal wimps need to get tough or we will all soon be speaking Arabic. Remember, Hitler never attacked us either.

    Comment by sickof liberals — J

    No, Hitler attacked your allies and it took you around two or so years to jump in. Guess you had to wait till he was out of bullets!
    Morels


  206. Gregor Samsa says:

    you have this weird NEEED to produce your resume [...]
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 5:18 pm

    Says the twit who is constantly reminding everyone else what a good lawyer he is, as if we were supposed to be in awe over it.

    When you were thinking up your imaginary career, couldn’t you think of any other, more prestigious degree?

    I demonstrate the fallacy of your argument and you discuss religion and evolution. Pitiful……

    What fallacy? That the attack on Iraq was part of Pres Bush’s doctrine of pre-emptive strike? Is that what you think is a “fallacy”?

    During the run-up to the invasion the White House did not argue it was a follow-up military action to the first Gulf War. That exists only in your head, much like your imaginary family and career.


  207. Mark says:

    #194 are the figures for Deatths under Sadaam including Irann/Iraq casualty figures? I’ve seen figures that tend to include those as part of his deatth count.

    #209 So what does Johnson have to do wiith anything? Regradless of what came before him, shouldn’t Buush be honest and accountbale on his own merits? Or dooes everything have to be payback or evening up of some sort? Face it there has been no administration in my lifetime (starting in the Ike era) that hhas been as adverse to accountability as this one. There has been no administration in my life time that has been as power hungry as this one (including Nixon) annd when time plays everything out, there eill not have ever been a larger criminal administration (Including Nixon and the Iran COntra admins) than this one has been.


  208. hellinabucket says:

    218. Flighty far Righty you prove nothing. You will support an adminstration that refuses to show where the money has been going in the GWOT. If you can turn a blind eye to this just to justify your republican views you aren’t doing any true republicans any good.

    How can you support a President that won’t be honest.

    no answer from you means your arguments are hollow.


  209. unbelievable says:

    Well… this can be explained in a couple of other ways… ;-)
    Comment by Gregor Samsa — January 2, 2007 @ 5:17 pm

    LOL


  210. Chad says:

    Watch the right-wingers flip out over this. He’s part of the evil MSM, saying something that doesn’t conform to my faith-based worldview (like the execution was good for Iraq). They’ll probably claim that Brokaw said Saddam was actually a pretty cool guy who was the victim of an unjust brutal murder. Just wait and see.


  211. Bluedog49 says:

    Wow, unbelievable, amazing how persnickety some posters get around here when you bring up the issue of IQ. Must be a tender subject for them.


  212. jms says:

    I was trying to wait to be post #156, but, I couldn’t. Why 156? Well, as governor of Texas, Dubya signed off on 152 executions in just six years; more than all other states combined. As president, he’s signed off on 3; the first federal executions since 1963.

    For a Chickenhawk like him, is it any wonder Saddam got whacked so quickly?


  213. JaneESchneider says:

    you have this weird NEEED to produce your resume and be loved by all breathing creatures. Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 5:18 pm

    An you have this weird need to produce your false resume and be hated by all breathing creatures. At least, that’s what I’m getting out of your pointless posts.


  214. unbelievable says:

    They felt sorry for you and put a “1″ in front of the 5 and the 7.

    Translation: MA does NOT qualify for MENSA.

    Also, MA is not funny…

    Seriously, You’re sooooo precious – you have this weird NEEED to produce your resume and be loved by all breathing creatures.

    Not at all, I just demonstrate your lack of correctness when you call me names.

    The really good news – you’re not in a position to do too much damage.

    LOL… Funny considering you just said a couple rants earlier than I was. You kept using the word infected… LOL. Your memory is seriously shoddy. All the excessive estrogen you inject so that you can claim to be female is affecting your memory.

    You poor thing – I demonstrate the fallacy of your argument and you discuss religion and evolution. Pitiful……
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 5:18 pm

    Obviously I didn’t, or you would have been able to refute specifics of my post with facts… Instead you made a vague blanket statement of opinion and expect it to count for anything. Hint: It didn’t. You’re as transparent as a plate glass window. And about as fragile.


  215. hellinabucket says:

    MA can blather all it wants. Until it answers why it would support an administration that won’t be open with it’s own people (and then support attacking others that do the same, the irony).

    There is no argument that can be brought up. MA can’t answer it because MA would have to first come to grips with the forked tongue this administration speaks with.


  216. Bluedog49 says:

    Mighty A-hole: “I am paid to advocate for my client. I am paid to make sure their Constitutional Rights are not abridged. Period. My bias is for my client.”

    A little later: “you have this weird NEEED to produce your resume…”

    As I always point out, it is especially useless to engage a person like this. She’s just so f*cking ridiculous!


  217. unbelievable says:

    Morels are mushrooms. Intelligense and dignitty are the result of cutbacks to spending in education!
    Comment by el kanuckistani — January 2, 2007 @ 5:22 pm

    Coke through the nose funny!


  218. kenba says:

    while much of the american public prefers not to see snuff films under the guise of news reporting ,the bush crowd is steadily working overtime to create an american consciousness which will accept a tolerance for a revival of southern style justice (legal lynchings and third degree confessions). for those of you not familar with the history of iraq, the baathists have been thrown out of power three or four times only to rise out of the ashes like a phoenix (which by the way hails from those parts)neither the british,nor the french nor us will overcome their determination unless we plan to commit wholesale genocide.they are the most educated and the most organized of any of the factions. and now with the death of saddam they really have a chip on their shoulder.


  219. Gregor Samsa says:

    You’re as transparent as a plate glass window. And about as fragile.
    Comment by unbelievable — January 2, 2007 @ 5:34 pm

    Only a lot cheaper. With the purchase of one Mighty, the store will throw in the second one for half the price and a free leash.

    Is it me, or Mitey Coprolite’s rhetorical skills are seriously wanting for someone who claims to have successfully defended death penalty cases?


  220. unbelievable says:

    Wow, unbelievable, amazing how persnickety some posters get around here when you bring up the issue of IQ.

    Especially when the only ones here who can claim this are all liberals… :)

    Must be a tender subject for them.
    Comment by Bluedog49 — January 2, 2007 @ 5:30 pm

    Which they reinforce every time they make a derogatory comment about it :)


  221. Florida's Ruler says:

    Saddam was murdered before the larger trial for the American-backed massacre could finish. If they were truly interested in justice like they pretend, they would have let Hussein document his knowledge for history in the unfinished trial or somewhere else. Killing Hussein and destroying the evidence before the trial was finished and then calling it a fair trial while a chorus of international observers condemned the trial reveals Bush’s secret Un-Christian character as America’s Sore Loserman.


  222. ItsJustKarma says:

    Okay, this is what I ask myself if neccessary:

    Is, what I am intending to do, hurting or harming
    Anybody else or Myself?
    If the answer is YES
    No Can Do.

    Bush wants the Arab Nations to fight with each other.
    That will weaken them. When a Martyr is born,
    a New Leader will pop up out of Nowhere.
    Because the nature of Martyrdom is Unity against the
    enemy, which in this case is the USA.
    Thus war between the Arab Brothers does the job
    the Administration wants to get done anyway.
    But wait and see when a Muslim Uniter steps up to
    unite all different factions of Islam.

    Saddam was as good or as bad as Augusto Pinochet
    or any other Military leader. And what about Fidji?
    Whatg about Democracy in Fidji? No need?


  223. Bluedog49 says:

    Saddam Hussein was executed for crimes he committed while he was an ally of the United States and using weapons provided to him by the United States. Just a reminder.


  224. hellinabucket says:

    Tighty Stained Whiteys has seemed to have left the blog. MA, when you do come back I will be asking the same question.

    How can you support an administration that won’t disclose on where the money is spent for the GWOT.

    So for now MA, Toooooooooooooodles.


  225. unbelievable says:

    Only a lot cheaper. With the purchase of one Mighty, the store will throw in the second one for half the price and a free leash.

    LOL!

    Is it me, or Mitey Coprolite’s rhetorical skills are seriously wanting for someone who claims to have successfully defended death penalty cases?
    Comment by Gregor Samsa — January 2, 2007 @ 5:42 pm

    It’s not you. One problem with people like MA is that because he does not have the capacity to accept that there are people smarter than he is, he cannot understand why he isn’t able to fool us… Much like a teenager who thinks he can stumble in the door, reeking of alcohol, and actually convince his parents that he is not drunk. LOL


  226. unbelievable says:

    Go ahead. Jump in.
    Comment by Bluedog49 — January 2, 2007 @ 5:44 pm

    You are seriously cracking me up…


  227. Mr.Murder says:

    Saddam walked the green mile…

    sadly they made him look brave in facing his end.


  228. Bluedog49 says:

    Thanks. You’re awsome.


  229. mighty aphrodite says:

    “What fallacy? That the attack on Iraq was part of Pres Bush’s doctrine of pre-emptive strike? Is that what you think is a “fallacy”?”
    Comment by Grgrrrr

    Greggrrrr – You must have been accepted at the same MENSA chapter as our other resident savant. The spinster school marm said,
    “So if you wanna claim a ‘cease-fire’ (which is bull$hit), then you have to accept that the first war was also illegal.” The BBC covered the cease-fire in accordance with 12 UN conditions. Fact trumps fiction everytime….


  230. Bluedog49 says:

    He was a tough bastard to the end, wasn’t he. We turned him into a folk hero. Very stupid of us. Top-down stupidity.


  231. ItsJustKarma says:

    #107 is proof that they are drifting into 13% now. The lower the approval numbers the dumber the approvers.


  232. Kilgore Trout says:

    Hussein was tried for the murder of 180 -200 Kurds.

    BushCo has killed how many civilians? Labeling these deaths as unintended is a convenient way to justify “smart” bombs which have the same unintended consequences as IEDs.

    Whose crimes are worse?


  233. Bluedog49 says:

    Carl Gordon: “If the past 6 years has tought us anything, it’s that the Repubilcans have restored intelligense, dignitty, and morels to the White house and the country. We are respected not only for our mite, but our integritty everywhere in the world. No peace without 100% victory and death to all enemies of America and Bush. Down with Fashists – Support Bush!!!”

    Was that a joke? It’s got to be a joke. Please tell me it’s a joke….


  234. mighty aphrodite says:

    #227 – I told you once, Ms. Bucket, I support budgetary oversight. I also support killing our enemies. Is that clear enough for you?

    #234 – “An you have this weird need to produce your false resume and be hated by all breathing creatures. At least, that’s what I’m getting out of your pointless posts.” Comment by JaneESchneider

    *******Dear Jane – What you believe or don’t believe is none of my business. Your posts were much more amusing when you were defending the sympathetic Wayne…..


  235. Krazny says:

    our posts were much more amusing when you were defending the sympathetic Wayne…..

    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 6:09 pm

    and your posts were much less amusing when you were talking about your deceased child.


  236. unbelievable says:

    The BBC covered the cease-fire in accordance with 12 UN conditions. Fact trumps fiction everytime….
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 6:00 pm

    Need me to type this more slowly?

    We never declared war in the first place.

    Because BBC called it a cease-fire doesn’t make it so.

    I asked you to cite the law that allows them to invade Iraq (this would eb a fact), and you have not.

    Slow enough for you?


  237. Earl says:

    Your IQ gets you into mensa and my dick gets me into your wife, what a pig, there was a long line behind me.


  238. Gregor Samsa says:

    The BBC covered the cease-fire in accordance with 12 UN conditions. Fact trumps fiction everytime….
    Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2007 @ 6:00 pm

    LOL – so, there was a cease fire. A cease fire the US violated by launching a pre-emptive strike. The UN’s Annan already said the invasion was illegal, and even staunch neo-con Richard Perle admitted that much.

    Lest you forget: The White House did not claim the 2003 invasion of Iraq was a follow-up to the 1st Gulf War. That war was solely to end the occupation of Kuwait by Iraq.

    The stated objective of the current occupation of Iraq was to rid Hussein’s regime of WMD, and to end Hussein’s support for terrorists. Your statement that Hussein was like a parolee in violation of his terms is pure, unadulterated BS.


  239. Abby says:

    Since we were going to lynch Saddam instead of hanging him, wouldn’t pointy white hats with masks have been more appropriate?


  240. Bluedog49 says:

    Beautiful, Earl, beautiful. Very penetrating comments. May I assume you are a Bush supporter?


  241. unbelievable says:

    Your IQ gets you into mensa
    Comment by Earl — January 2, 2007 @ 6:17 pm

    I’m sure you’ll get deleted and banned… but before you do, let me tell you additional stupid person who is displaying his envy – I am a straight woman. Therefore, I have no wife.

    And even if I did, I doubt your nub could get you into anything. It’s why you’re so nasty. It’s a fact. Men with tiny hoo hoos try to compensate by domination. It’s sad… very, very, very sad.


  242. Bluedog49 says:

    So, so true, unbelievable. Poor little Earl.


  243. DieNowForPeace says:

    This is SO low rent, embarrasing and humiliating, to the USA.


  244. nanlichi says:

    Bluedog 49,

    #107 was a joke, a parody of our pet troll MA. Except for the typos, it was a pretty fair synopsis of the court reporter’s logic.

    I thought it the typos were entertaining. Mites and morels????

    Earl is probably telling the truth about a long line behind him. And they probably all want a reach-around, don’t they Earl?


  245. Aaron B. says:

    The coup de grace is that it probably wasn’t the real Saddam that got hung, but one of his body doubles.

    So for the guy talking about the never-ending sequence of “shams” add this one to the list.


  246. Bluedog49 says:

    It’s exactly what we should by now expect from a sociopathic, insecure bully who likes to pose as a cowboy.


  247. unbelievable says:

    Poor little Earl.
    Comment by Bluedog49 — January 2, 2007 @ 6:30 pm

    Little indeed : )


  248. Bluedog49 says:

    Thank you, nanlichi. I needed to be told that was a joke. I really did.


  249. katy says:

    Comment by DieNowForPeace — January 2, 2007 @ 6:32 pm

    WARNING – i clicked on that link and safari quit… f.y.i.

    you should warn of what people are about to see – the hanging?


  250. Krazny says:

    Give a guy a little warning DieNow, I have no desire to see Saddam hung. Might give MA a hard-on though.


  251. Dons Blog says:

    The execution did what was desired. Intimidated the Sunni’s, shut up hussein before he could implicate US accomplices, and took the issue off the plate before 2007 started.

    The execution took place on the Sunni Eid, not the Shia Eid.


  252. JollyRoger says:

    I’m sick to death of the Chimpleton “12 UN resolutions” catechism.

    Using this Chimpleton “logic,” might I ask when we’re saddling up for Israel?


  253. its says:

    What, Tom? It couldn’t be worse because he was allowed to say SOME last words, which he wasn’t even allowed to finish. No, it was worse because thugs with leather jackets and ski masks carried out a sentence on a man who the U.S. has lost 3,000 lives and hundreds of billion$$ to capture. Tom’s media has failed to inform the people of what we’re doing over there and it’s a total joke. Allowing a man to say some last words isn’t what makes us look bad, destroying our economy and citizens’ lives to hang a man who was a clown to the world is the joke. Rumsfeld met with him while he was in power and approved of his tactics then, yes he was bad and evil, but we don’t hold any of the evil people on this world accountable, unless eliminating them can boost your poll results, which doesn’t say much about the intelligence of americans.


  254. Raven says:

    Hey, did I miss the voting for
    Troll of the Year?
    Who won?


  255. Marra says:

    My, the comments are getting off-target.

    I watched the whole execution video last night. This is what I take away:

    - The trial should have been at The Hague.
    - The execution was barbaric and appeared to be from another time,
    long ago. Or maybe out of fiction like “Dune”. On the level of “Left
    Behind”?
    - The appearance that the U.S is ineffectual, or you could say impotent,
    was reinforced once again.

    So much looks like a parody of 1940’s western movies; I wonder why . . .


  256. JULIE says:

    WELL, SADDAM IS DEAD! OR IS HE? WAS THE HANGING STAGED SO THE WHOLE WORLD COULD BE GLAD OR SAD? OR WAS IT DONE QUICKLY BEFORE HE COULD “TELL ALL”? I SMELL TWO RATS, BUSH AND CHENEY!

    HOW IS AMERICA GOING TO PUT UP WITH THESE IDIOTS FOR TWO MORE
    YEARS? AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN AND TAX PAYER, I DEMAND THAT THESE
    TWO “RESIGN”! IF THEY DON’T, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR
    IMPEACHMENT!

    JULIE


  257. dav says:

    That’s a pretty bad sign when a guy who speaks at a Former Republican president’s funeral calls this decision a bad one


  258. Bluedog49 says:

    Maybe Brokaw’s trying to mend some fences. After all, Brokaw was another one of these “news” anchors who repeated lie after lie about Al Gore during the 2000 election. Brokaw gave Bush a free pass and sold a story to us about how Al Gore was “inauthentic.” Brokaw is dripping with blood. Maybe he knows it.


  259. Hanging is tough at Antony Loewenstein says:

    [...] NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw on Saddam’s execution: [...]


  260. paco says:

    Grudge match: WP v NYT ….winner controls the truth!!

    The NYT’s AP filler says Sunni demonstrators “broke the locks off” a Shiite shrine on 1/1/2007 in Samarra. In direct contradiction, the WP says they “were allowed by guards and police to enter the holy place”.

    Angry Protests in Iraq Suggest Sunni Arab Shift to Militants
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/world/middleeast/02Iraq.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    Iraqi Government to Investigate Saddam Hanging, Leak of Video
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/02/AR2007010200421.html

    If police allowed access to this Shiite shrine, it’s not likely that Shia officers would permit a Sunni demonstration there. Which means that possibly a Sunni or Kurdish officer was involved. Which should at least be constructive to the ‘civil war’ or ‘sectarian strife’ debate they/we are pottery-barn-bound to engage in.

    Don’t worry msm, papers will still sell if the occupation ends.

    Remember folks…msm pieces discussing the middle east have ‘violent death wrap-ups. This one starts with a revelation that the US military likely used machine guns from helicopters to kill 6 people inside the offices of a member in Iraq’s budding Parliament.

    Then the somehow-diverse-yet-always-severe Iraqi “government” possibly closes a television station because the “newscaster wore black mourning clothes.”

    A line allows progress a circle does not. It’s a good song.


  261. Cranky Greg says:

    He’s dead isn’t he?

    Sometimes there is justice.

    May not have been pretty or dignified, but mission accomplished!


  262. rider says:

    Grudge match: WP v NYT ….winner controls the truth!!

    The NYT’s AP filler says Sunni demonstrators “broke the locks off” a Shiite shrine on 1/1/2007 in Samarra. In direct contradiction, the WP says they “were allowed by guards and police to enter the holy place”.

    Angry Protests in Iraq Suggest Sunni Arab Shift to Militants
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/world/middleeast/02Iraq.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    Iraqi Government to Investigate Saddam Hanging, Leak of Video
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/02/AR2007010200421.html

    If police allowed access to this Shiite shrine, it’s not likely that Shia officers would permit a Sunni demonstration there. Which means that possibly a Sunni or Kurdish officer was involved. Which should at least be constructive to the ‘civil war’ or ‘sectarian strife’ debate they/we are pottery-barn-bound to engage in.

    Don’t worry msm, papers will still sell if the occupation ends.

    Remember folks…msm pieces discussing the middle east have ‘violent death wrap-ups. This one starts with a revelation that the US military likely used machine guns from helicopters to kill 6 people inside the offices of a member in Iraq’s budding Parliament.

    Then the somehow-diverse-yet-always-severe Iraqi “government” possibly closes a television station because the “newscaster wore black mourning clothes.”

    A line allows progress a circle does not. It’s a good song.


  263. Lokki says:

    Watching the cell phone version on utube was disturbing. I did it so my kids wouldn;t have to know, so I could tell them why they shouldn’t. I did it so they wouldn;t.

    But Christ everything Brokaw says is true. Add this to the continuing endless retinue of disatsters and incompetence of this Bush Admin.

    I mean, really, Jesus H. Christ.


  264. Pete_Bogs says:

    for a “fledgling democracy,” Iraq’s execution of Saddam was distinctly old school… not that they executed him, but that they allowed hecklers in, and didn’t stop people from filming it for their own enjoyment… they really could have done better with a man who deserved to die…


  265. Bluedog49 says:

    Cranky Greg: “May not have been pretty or dignified, but mission accomplished!”

    OK! Now, Greg, can you tell us which national security issue this fixes? Are we more safe from terrorism? Are there fewer terrorists in the world? Is Iraq now a “model of democracy?” Is the middle east more stable? Is the world more peaceful? Are our interests in the region more secure? Just what mission is it that we have accomplished?


  266. M Amell says:

    This does really put the exclamation point on the phrase: Bush is an idiot!
    Public executions, having a hanging? Where was the tallest tree in the county? Who knows about these bozos? For once I’m at a loss for words.. Unbelievable..


  267. volum says:

    If GWB did to us for 25 years, what Saddam did to the people of Iraq, people would be lined up for miles to drag his bloated corpse behind their car.


  268. James C. Smith says:

    As usual George Bush’s America comes off looking like a punk a** B**ch. Is there no end to this administration’s incompetence?

    Senator Skidmark


  269. Zooey says:

    #268 – Jeebus, a little warning would be nice.


  270. kaes says:

    Saddam’s Execution Eliminates the Main Witness against Accomplices
    http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2605.htm


  271. Karim says:

    Final justice: Texas-style.


  272. Zooey says:

    I wonder how many billable hours the not so mighty Hagette has spent here today?


  273. Republicans are the fear and smear party says:

    I am against the death penalty so I don’t even want it for George Bush. This may be a stretch, but he is much more valuable to us alive. Only he will be able to tell prison psychiatrists what was going through his mind when he ordered the American military to invade a country and slaugher thousands of people who had nothing to do with 9/11.


  274. Bluedog49 says:

    Volum: “If GWB did to us for 25 years, what Saddam did to the people of Iraq, people would be lined up for miles to drag his bloated corpse behind their car.”

    OK! Maybe you can you tell us how our national security is helped by this. Are we more safe from terrorism? Are there fewer terrorists in the world? Is Iraq now a “model of democracy?” Is the middle east more stable? Is the world more peaceful? Are our interests in the region more secure? How has this helped the United States?


  275. Bluedog49 says:

    Why is it that nobody who thinks this execution was the right thing to do can offer a cogent argument on how it has helped us as a nation?


  276. nikto says:

    It would have been more dignified and less inflammatory
    if they just had Cheney shoot him in the face.

    And the dialogue would be less-disturbing as well—-
    Something like, “More Beefeater, driver!”


  277. Patricia says:

    It’s obveous that the liberals cant count! All the do-badders that get caut are the ones beeing kilt. The comparrisions to Vietnam are spirrious at best. Bush has one ofthe finest foregn policy teams assembled that is possible. We ARE winning in Iraq – Every day! If you can’t get on board and come in for the big kill on the enemies of liberty, than you should just go and kill yourself! Let’s support the presient 100% in everyting he does! If the past 6 years has tought us anything, it’s that the Repubilcans have restored intelligense, dignitty, and morels to the White house and the country. We are respected not only for our mite, but our integritty everywhere in the world. No peace without 100% victory and death to all enemies of America and Bush. Down with Fashists – Support Bush!!!
    Comment by Carl Gordon

    #107–Carl, unless you are deliberately misspelling words in an attempt at satire, you are living proof of the failure of the American school system. Your use of the English language is pitiful. For God’s sake, get away from the computer right now and start reading a dictionary.


  278. Totally Choice » Browkaw Hits the Noose on the Neck says:

    [...] Review: Browkaw: Hussein Execution ‘Resembled The Worst Kind Of Nightmare Out Of The Old American West’ Source: thinkprogress.org [...]


  279. Republicans are the fear and smear party says:

    I think Carl Gordon did a very good job at satire. I couldn’t have done it better myself.


  280. mighty aphrodite says:

    “I wonder how many billable hours the not so mighty Hagette has spent here today?” Comment by Zooey

    *******About 2.5 – In between meeting with two new clients. But unlike yours, mine was a productive day….



  281. Zooey says:

    About 2.5 – In between meeting with two new clients. But unlike yours, mine was a productive day….
    Comment by mighty aphrodite

    Thanks, Hagette.

    It’s interesting that you feel compelled to answer to me — for anything.
    Heh.


  282. Lascaux says:

    The execution video deserves an academy award for a short documentary into the heart of darkness.

    Saddam knew he was going to die and he played it to the end. No matter how cruel he was to his enemies — he appeared to go out like a man. That deserves some measure of respect.

    He will probably become a popular symbol of martrydom.


  283. Carl Gordon says:

    I saw Mighty Aphrodite eating a log. Bluedog had part of it as well.


  284. unbelievable says:

    It’s interesting that you feel compelled to answer to me — for anything.
    Comment by Zooey — January 2, 2007 @ 8:33 pm

    Probably because we’re the only people who will speak to him. It’s not kind and loving, but it’ll do for attention when it’s all he’s got…


  285. katy says:

    hello, patricia reglin… just chill… ignore any attempt at intimidation…
    we’ll all be better off… hopefully…


  286. hellinabucket says:

    little miss diite, you never did answer the question. You side stepped it in a most predictable way. The question was “Why won’t this administration allow oversight on the spending and why would you continue to support an administration if they don’t allow oversight?”

    I’ll expound on that question since you support oversight but don’t answer the question on why you would still support this administration while they don’t support oversight. You don’t see the contradiction so I’ll slow it down for you, idgit.

    The US Military is spending over 2 billion a week. The Pentagon doesn’t specifically ask for money for Iraq. They put it under the big umbrella GWOT even though over 75% of that money goes to Iraq. The Pentagon’s method for Iraq budgeting makes it impossible to calculate the true cost of the war. The Pentagon does not report back to Congress on what the money is actually spent on but has continued to have “Emergency requests” that circumvent the normal oversight that you have stated your for.

    There have been formal requests from the last (republican) congress to have the budget requests from the Pentagon in a normal budget but guess who shot that down? No it wasn’t Cheney but close. A signing statement took care of that. The ISG also said this is an important step but we all know what GW thinks of the ISG.

    So once again you self indulgent pile of leftover right wing scare tactics and catch phrases. How can you support this president when he is purposely hiding on where the money is spent?

    So you believe in killing our enemies. Good for you. Do you believe in letting someone else telling you who your enemies are? Yes, I believe you do. Someone who poses to be as smart as yourself has such a nack at exposing what a complete mental midget you are.

    Answer the question. How is it possible for you to stand so strongly with an administration that is robbing you blind? By the way, none of the “emergency” funding has yet to make it on to an official budget so we have no idea how much they’ve screwed our children out of.


  287. Algol 510 says:

    Patricia??
    Wasn’t that the soundtrack for Fellini’s movie “La Dolce Vita”?


  288. JessePowermaker says:

    Every once in a while I come back to TP.

    And, yet again, have somehow wasted the last couple of hours reading….so many billable hours down the drain. : )

    But, I’ve been rather entertained and also encouraged by the evidence that there are indeed cogent human beings out there.

    Mighty Aphrodite?…don’t you get that really really smart people, many with very high high IQs, really enjoy playing with you?

    ….that we enjoy seeing you get all hot and bothered? We prod you because you’re so fun to prod. Hey, I’d almost think you were just playing “devil’s advocate” and just doing it to get everyone worked up in order to get other smart people inspired to REALLY take action to make sure our newly elected congress DOES something instead of just saying they will.

    Yet…

    The most potent question asked of you has been repeated several times…the issue of accountability of the funding for this “conflict.”

    All you can say, other than the odd Pres. Johnson remark, is: I support accountability.

    So DO something about it as it is clear that this admin is not practicing accountability.

    MA, please stay and continue to make your comments. Otherwise the rest of us will lose out on a lot of fun…

    For, the response to your comments are not really for you..they’re for the rest of us…the majority in this country and on this board.

    The comments reinforce our solidarity in making sure that you and your kind have a “say” in our democracy…as that is your right…a right for which I will fight…if only for the amusement.

    Yet, more importantly, to paraphrase the ideas of Thomas Jefferson and his reasons for an electorate, “Stupid people should be allowed to speak their mind. However, they shouldn’t be allowed to govern or chose those who govern. Smart people (the electorate) can make up their own minds if a bunch of stupid people pick the wrong guy.”


  289. USA says:

    I’m not concerned with the martyrs of stupid people.
    Mass Murders are not thought highly of in the REAL WORLD!


  290. Gregor Samsa says:

    Hellinabucket,

    You will have to excuse Mitey Coprolite.

    You see, he is still busy with the first pat of the question: Writing down $2 billion. That figure’s got many more zeros than the two she can handle.

    Once he’s done with that, she will get on with the second part: Findind out if anemonae are the same thing as an enemy.


  291. hellinabucket says:

    317 and 319 thanks for the input. I’m not going to have an argument on the merits of why we are in this conflict but I’m not going to stand by and allow MA or anyone else to spout supposed virtues while not looking at what this administration is doing.

    I do hope MA and the rest continue to post and speak out. And as long as it’s the same mindless drivel without self examination, I’ll ask the same questions.


  292. D.G. Bowman says:

    Do you realize just how stupid, myopic, puerile, misinformed and just downright ridiculous and contemptible all of you “America Can Do No Wrong” types are? Reading your reich-wing pro-Shrub tripe, I am reminded yet again that truth and reality do indeed have a liberal bias. (Brief aside here: Jesus and the Founding Fathers were liberals.) Sheesh, get a grip and educate yourselves about our nefarious dealings with our former patron Saddam (see: well-documented photo of fellow mass killer Rumsfeld shaking hands with Mr. Hussein in the early ’80s) before getting all orgasmic with blood lust over his unseemly demise. Know what would be fair and equitable justice? For Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Rove to have all joined Saddam on the gallows. Rogues, thieves and war criminals all.


  293. Patricia says:

    Dear Patricia Reglin et al,
    This is the first time I have ever posted a message to this website. In the space for “name,” I typed in Patricia, which is my name, as it is the name of thousands of other people. I didn’t intend to insult, offend, or intimidate anyone (Post 314 seems to suggest that I am attempting to intimidate), and if I inadvertently did so, I apologize. As for this comment—#308,
    “Dont know who the other patrica is.Probably phase two in the plan so I can never come back.” —I don’t even know what it means, so cannot apologize. I don’t know anything about a phase two or a plan. All did was make a comment and use my given name. This time I’ll include my surname.
    Patricia McDermott


  294. Zooey says:

    #317 – JessePowermaker

    Heh.


  295. katy says:

    Patricia McDermott
    Comment by Patricia — January 2, 2007 @ 9:21 pm

    welcome aboard!
    patricia reglin had some troll problems last night… a little skittish…
    it’s all settled now, thank you!


  296. canuckistanian says:

    Do you know what’s hilarious,bush,rumsfeld,blaire and straw have been banned for life from the church of the nativity in Bethlehem.Oh well,there’s always colorado,eh george.


  297. patricia reglin says:

    No that was not it at all Patricia with a big P. LOL

    I has some troll troubles last night and figured someone had grabbed my handle.

    Sorry about my paranoia.

    You are doing fine. It is fine.

    Welcome aboard!


  298. D.G. Bowman says:

    Do you realize just how stupid, myopic, puerile, misinformed and downright contemptible you “America Can Do No Wrong” types are? Your reich-wing, pro-Bush tripe reminds us yet again that truth and justice and reality itself have a well-established liberal bias. (Brief aside: Jesus and the Founding Fathers were liberals. But you knew that.) It might behoove you to learn more about our previous involvement with Saddam before you get all orgasmic with blood lust over his unseemly demise. (One exhibit: that well-documented photo of the spectral Rumsfeld shaking hands with Mr. Hussein in the early ’80s. Two killers doing business.) If justice truly were fair and equitable, Mssrs. Shrub, Cheney, Rummy and Rove would have joined the Butcher of Baghad under the hangman’s noose. Now — shut up and go educate yourselves.


  299. D.G. Bowman says:

    Please pardon the duplicate post. It’s hard to tell when some websites have indeed posted your material. (I did vary the verbiage a bit for some of you intellectually bereft Republican mouth-breathers out there.) Cheers, and may compassion and intelligence and sanity one day again grace the office that was stolen from President Gore in 2000 and from Sen. Kerry in 2004 …


  300. JessePowermaker says:

    I have a question. T’day was my first comment…even though I’ve been coming back to TP on occasion for months. And I read through all 316 posts before mine…formerly #317…now, as I write this it’s #304. Came back and the numbers had changed.

    A couple of people referred to my comment which now refer to the wrong comment.

    What posts were deleted and why? I don’t recall anything libelous or off color.

    Maybe I’m wrong.

    And no, I don’t believe it’s some kind of plot. Just seeking information here.


  301. jhink465 says:

    Watching the hanging of Saddam reminded me of the closing scene in the movie Agels With Dirty Faces when they are taking Rocky Sullivan (James Cagney) to the Chair. A guard tries to manhandle Rocky and is shoved away. A fellow death row inmate says “atta boy Rocky spit in their eye”. Saddam spat in their eye even as he plummeted to oblivion. He went down strong. He had convictions. Ya gotta give him that.


  302. bill peppin says:

    #94, do you actually believe that any despot in history has ever been
    moved to more moderate behavior by the death/execution of somebody
    else? Evidence supports that capital punishment is no deterrent to
    capital crimes (look it up, a solid, well-supported result). Aside from which, in what sense is capital punishment excusable or warranted, especially in a Christian [sic] country such as the U.S. of A? F’God’s sake, the POPE, a former Hitler youth, spoke out strongly against Saddam’s execution! And exactly why do you call Chavez a dictator/despot comparable to Saddam? Do you assert he has killed any in numbers comparable to Saddam? How about a solid link to an international news story documenting any such thing as this? So far as I can see, the major opponents of Chavez are those who, before his presidency, were awash in the loot extracted from Venezuelan oil, taken out of the country into foreign bank accounts for their own frolicking on the glorious resorts for the rich folks of the world. He is now the most popular leader in South America, if indeed not the entire world, so there just might be something wrong with your equating him with such despots as Saddam.


  303. mighty aphrodite says:

    #314 – “It might behoove you to learn more about our previous involvement with Saddam before you get all orgasmic with blood lust over his unseemly demise. (One exhibit: that well-documented photo of the spectral Rumsfeld shaking hands with Mr. Hussein in the early ’80s. Two killers doing business.)” More comment from D.G. Bowman

    *******An unseemly demise for Saddam would have been subjecting that SOB to the woodchipper – ALIVE. NOW that’s unseemly. But of course, it probably didn’t bother you much that such a person wielded that much power.

    It might behoove you to know a bit more history than the tripe you pick up on the Progressive Dems of America website. We assisted Saddam to keep our largest enemy of the day (Iran) busy – we assisted Iran because the best thing to do with meglomaniacal Islamic dictators is to keep them busy killing each other. (Not that theyhave historically needed much provocation.)

    You might be right about Gore – he could have just bored the two enemies to death…..


  304. C Gray says:

    Give it a rest Mr. Brokaw, you who call yourself a journalist!

    Do not for one New York second try to suggest Saddam “had a trial” – what he got gives new meaning to the terms

    joke

    and

    kangaroo court

    Neither should you ever attempt to suggest that because he was an

    awful

    man that somehow his extermination was either justified or needful.

    America and Americans have been disgraced for the past eight years because the so-called journalists out there have been content to promulgate the corporate media’s propaganda, pretty much as ordered.

    Your comments insinuate that if they only got the extermination part wrong – and fails to condemn the whole travesty of his staged capture, prosecution and execution!

    I am so totally ashamed of my government and the corporate media which lies, bald-faced, to us daily – speaking of our gloriousness, while killing abroad with abandon.

    If you with the power to tell the truth continue to pass on so many of the lies, our chances of regaining our dignity – and more importantly of survival itself, have about as much a chance as a polar bear on the melting artic ice.


  305. Darlene Poffel says:

    It seems to me there is no hope of real communication (that is, exchange of ideas) happening so long as there are such nasty exchanges between different factions. Why do certain people have to express pure hatred for the ideas of other people? You know you’re being insulting – what, exactly, do you think you’re gaining by that? From my perspective it seems to me that conservatives here are hurting their cause by such inane rsponses. I would love to read something constructive – but I begin to wonder if maybe some people don’t want to be constructiive, just disruptive. Let’s not encourage them, OK?


  306. Dennis says:

    Had the Bush administration wanted to stop this execution, it would have been stopped. It is the US that is being brought down by the Bush administration, not the insurgents. You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.


  307. Zooey says:

    “It’s interesting that you feel compelled to answer to me — for anything.Heh.” Comment by Zooey
    *****No more interesting than your need to address me…..
    Comment by mighty aphrodite

    See, I had a bet that you would ignore me, Hagette, insignificant as I am in Hag World. But you just can’t do it, can you? Now I owe Mr Aphrodite $1.


  308. Dana says:

    ” Are they doing this crap on purpose to achieve total choas or are they really this stupid?

    Exactly, dlet. No one is this stupid. This was designed specifically to foment unrest and further inflame the Iraqi conflict. This has Rove’s bloody handprints all over it.”.

    Like if you were trying to create a war on terror where none was there before, and make the defense industries happy, and can be exploited to control the U.S. electorate, etc. A great plan for the neocons, and the neocons in chief.


  309. JessePowermaker says:

    “They did not advocate pursuing justice through the pockets of others. They did not believe in the mother’s milk of the liberal cause, income tax. They believed in volunteerism, sacrifice and charity. They did not believe in punitive treatment for the honestly successful.”

    I smell a straw man here in your comments, MA.

    As you know, and are quite adept at utilizing, a straw man is citing some global “they” and by inference, attributing it to a specific “they.”

    And, you do use it as a kinda-double-negative. Pretty clever, yet very transparent.

    You, of all people..you know? a legal person?….um…professional, should understand that hearsay, even disguised by association, is not allowed in arguments given as proof.

    As one example, trying to “prove” that somehow “some people”, don’t believe in “volunteerism” for instance.

    Which is a great way to “move the target” in order to move the argument off to another topic…because “some people” get mad when they think that you’re accusing them of not believing in “volunteerism.”

    And we all drive off on our prog/con bumper car arguments.

    “Saddam being hung in the inhumane way he was most definitely hung.”

    This is the core issue…

    Nobody deserves to die that way, and it be shown all over the net.

    The key question? Who is ultimately responsible?

    This is not a right/left argument.

    It’s about the humanity our “founding fathers” advocated, and the accountability for all actions executed by the executive branch…something else advocated by those wise dead guys.


  310. hellinabucket says:

    Still can’t answer can ya MA? Nope, can’t put that logic into your little brain.
    It must really suck being you. Trying to believe in what a true patriot should believe but having all this mounting evidence show up against this administration that shows they aren’t that patriotic.

    The same six brain cells that voted for Bush are now having to contend with how unpatriotic Bush has been.

    How can you support a president that talks about freedom but is denying us our rights, circumventing the constitution and the congress.

    You, as a conservative, should be demanding from this administration oversight but your castrated. You long ago gave Bush a free pass to do whatever he thought was the right thing to do to fight terror.

    Now that it’s being shown to you that Bush isn’t only doing a poor job at that, but he’s incompetent in so many other areas. Those six brain cells are working overtime.

    So what do you say MA? Can you elaborate on your blind devotion to an administration that is robbing us blind and won’t allow oversight?

    Remember now, none of your other arguments matter if you can’t justify this. You’ll become as it was put earlier, someone who loves this country like a 3 year old.


  311. bill peppin says:

    Wow, 320, so it’s perfectly OK with you if, when somebody is held to be an “enemy,” to abet his demise through a third person? Do you then hold that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a Christian concept? And you represent people in legal matters? This is quite frightening, I deem.


  312. mighty aphrodite says:

    Dear Jesse – If you smell a straw man in my factual presentation that the Founders did not provide for an income tax – a “progressive” one at that – you might wish to have


  313. Just Me says:

    Post # 124……Veyr good post…..Thank You……MA…..you might have your therapist explain grandious thinking to you and include it in your diagnosis…..by the way are you off your meds again????


  314. hellinabucket says:

    Where’s your venom MA? Can’t staunchly defend the Decider?


  315. hellinabucket says:

    MA, your’e still amazed at the shadows on the cave floor instead of seeing what and who are making the shadows.


  316. pat bill says:

    Mr Brokaw, I agree with your comments and like seing you here.

    There is a truth I have come to understand since Bush became President.Our country is as susceptible to fanaticism as any other. My hope comes from the comments I see from ordinary Americans who know we can overcome this.

    Bless, our troops


  317. Zooey says:

    MA, your’e still amazed at the shadows on the cave floor instead of seeing what and who are making the shadows.
    Comment by hellinabucket

    Ouch, that’s gonna leave a mark.

    Heh.


  318. hellinabucket says:

    like anything registers with MA. But if it did, then good.


  319. D.G. Bowman says:

    Aside from the salutary civic attributes of classical enlightened liberalism — and there are many, of course — it is safe to say that convervatism by its very nature is inimical to good governance. Since its very philosophical core is tied to an unyielding hostility to the concept of commonwealth and social welfare and the common good — remember, the amiable dunce Ronald Reagan galvanized a lot of dimwitted folks with his empty-headed attacks on the entire notion of government — it is patently unsuitable as a framework for governing. As practiced by the soulless, heartless ideologues of the Bush Crime Family, “conservatism” (don’t even think about yoking it to the word “compassionate”; that would be oxymoronic in the extreme) is anti-life, anti-environment, anti-labor, anti-women, anti-middle class, anti-egalitarian, anti-minority, anti-liberty and anti-social. It sneers at equality and fairness and justice. It respects only greed and selfishness and ruthlessness and insularity and militarism and corporatism. Its rotting ideological hull has been exposed through the malign administrations of Nixon and Reagan and Bushes I and II; it is now time to kick it once and for all onto the dustbin of history.


  320. mighty aphrodite says:

    Dear Ms. Bucket – It must suck to be you – never worrying much about the trillions of dollars of waste that is the core of governmnet bureaucracy. If government waste is really what eating you alive, do your self a favour and check out the projected cost of Medicare in 1966. They did a thirty year projection – and needless to say, they were off by more than a tad.

    So yes, I will repeat this to you for a third time – I am very much in favour of government oversight. This is apparently a BRAND NEW concern of yours. But when the Dem pols have the nerve to call smaller than requested budget increases, “program cuts”, your side doesn’t have alot of credibility.

    Poor President Clinton – he did the best job he could with what he knew, but we now know more of the enemys’ objective. Your real problem appears to be a Clintonista view of terrorists. It is NOT a law enforcement issue – the SOBs declared war – didn’t you get the memo? Figures…….And if you don’t like THIS answer – so what?


  321. mighty aphrodite says:

    Dear d.g. – The “Dustbin of History” is already full of failed collective governments. Red China is is becoming Gold, Cubans still die trying to get out, North Korea is a starving failure, Sweden is having to re-vamp their tax and benefit system as they’re not keeping up with each other, and European unemployment is double and triple ours because of a limited amount of industrial growth. Thank you for not refuting the clearly delineated differences between “Classical Liberalism” and you. That would have been just a bit tedious…..

    Good night….


  322. hellinabucket says:

    You sorry sack of shit MA. You side stepped it again. Can’t just get yourself to wrap around the concept that the commander and chief is bypassing the constitution and congress. Just because you put all your money on that horse doesn’t mean you have to follow it to the glue factory. And look at your sorry ass talking about 1966 like that matters. Can I bring up Bush’s AWOL and piss you off? Don’t care to but did any ways. And Clinton? I’ve never discussed him on any of these threads.

    I asked how you can support this administration. I live in the present and presently this president is not living upto his office. Didn’t bring up any law enforcement strawman either so drop that back into your little bag of scare tactics.

    You don’t have an answer. Besides you ignorant bat, it was Cheney and Rumsfeld there last go around with power that made the biggest cuts in the military.

    My problem has nothing to do with some conjured up idea of Clinton fear (just give that up, you’ll feel better). My problem lies with the current administration using scare tactics with smoke and mirrors. I have a right to see where my tax dollars are going and I’m smart enough to know that something along the lines of the GWOT is not going to be a continual “emergency”.

    They (and apparently you) are afraid to have transparency with the spending for Iraq.

    And who f#ck declared war? Did the country of Iraq? No and your a shit head to even think that holds up. Some religious fanatics did. So let’s throw our money and our soldiers into the most secular country in the region to get religious fanatics.

    Where do you get your talking points?

    You can’t possibly stand by a true conservative viewpoint and a true patriot and still hold the notion that allowing a free pass to this administration is good for this country. Because it’s not.

    Don’t you ever question authority or are you just happy you were invited to the party so you better just shut up and go along with all the cool kids.


  323. God is a Nihilist says:

    “never worrying much about the trillions of dollars of waste that is the core of governmnet bureaucracy.”

    Sadly, I agree with this cheap whore, but she does not realize how much a hypocrite she is. Now, mighty aphrodite, how does america have cheaper gas than europeon countries, or any other country really??? What about halliburton and its government involvement??? You do support bush don’t you?

    China, the soviet union, and cuba are in no way communist or collective, and you suffer from not having logic. Have you ever read any marx???


  324. Lynne says:

    Yes, it was one sick spectacle for sure – a good old boy kind of lynching – right out there for the world to see what the good old US of A now stands for.


  325. john m. carpenter says:

    Time to take a Stand !! Everyone!! Check-Out ‘ALEX JONES’..AUSTIN,TXS…
    RADIO SHOW…90.1 FM…. OR GOOGLE FOR YOUR ENLIGHTMENT AND STATION ON RADIO,….PEACE, LOVE AND HARMONY


  326. JessePowermaker says:

    “Dear Jesse – If you smell a straw man in my factual presentation that the Founders did not provide for an income tax – a “progressive” one at that – you might wish to have”

    No, I smelled a straw man in the other stuff…which I pointed out to the majority of people here that saw it too. Kinda a “wink wink” thing.

    How can you assume I’m a progressive? I paraphrased Thomas Jefferson. I’m pretty old school, here.

    I didn’t expect you to read my whole comment. Just up to the point that pissed you off.

    Which was my first line…about the smelling straw man stuff.

    Yet, it has nothing to do with you “Dear” MA. You’re just an amusing catalyst…or side line. Kinda like that spoiled three year old that someone else mentioned here…the kind of brat that you say, “Can’t those parents let them let go of the apron strings and think for themselves? Let them fall for once. Otherwise they’re gonna think that they never make mistakes and refuse to admit such.”

    There are a lot of smart and informed people here…and I like what they have to say. It’s difficult stuff that they say….yet, necessary.

    (I’m guessing that MA hasn’t the patience to read thus far).

    Hey, MA, I’m just using you to talk to my peeps and to get you to react!!!

    You amuse me…like a clown, as Joe Pesci questions in that movie.

    Our country “Right or Wrong” has done pretty well up until a few years ago…because the system did work its way out. Imperfect…yet the best the world had ever seen.

    The thing about our country “Right or Wrong?” We support our country when it’s right and support our country when it’s wrong provided we are free as outlined by our “founders” to point out its wrongs and to come together to make them right without the risk of being called a traitor.

    Yeah, the founders didn’t provide for an income tax. That happened later.

    But, they did say something about no tax without representation.

    And, in our society today…we do need services in our country because the technology and the number of people has changed. And the constitution has provided for that. How can we fund our system without taxes? Income or otherwise? …as long as they are represented for the good of society.

    And when my taxes are being used without oversight…to go back to a salient point made often here today.

    That’s when I’ll speak out.

    You should too, MA. Oh, I forgot he stopped reading a few paragraphs ago…it’s not ’bout right or left. It’s about what’s correct and right in the best sense.

    jp


  327. DM says:

    Ok, if the common Republican opinion is that “if the President does it then it’s not illegal” and Saddam was the President of Iraq (popularly elected leader) then on what hypocritical grounds does Bush judge Saddam to be in violation of law?

    And what the hell did he do SINCE THE LAST TIME WE WERE THERE to deserve the death penalty???

    It’s bullsh*t. I don’t like Saddam, but I DETEST BULLSH*T.


  328. Jay Randal says:

    Saddam was lynched by Iraqi Shia thugs, but Bush allowed it to take place! The cellphone video of Saddam being hanged was not expected, so Bush is mad only about that and not that he wanted Saddam lynched!


  329. Jerry S says:

    Interesting thread! I am still waiting for MA’s answer to the questio about spending oversight. I may have missed something, but it appears that MA is against taxation while expecting the American people to “support the troops” and her war through what? Charity? The American voters have had their say on the war, finally, and I expect the Democrats to do the right thing, and cut spending for the war. Hard task, but its got to be done. I have grandchildren who will pay for this idiotic war.


  330. Dan says:

    The video was more than likely intended to be leaked and to cause discontent in the region. The longer civil and sectarian unrest continues, the longer the defence contractors and associated industries are making money. Look at the case of those 2 SAS soldiers who were caught by Iraqi forces with fake beards and explosives in their vehicle a couple of years ago, and were then busted out by UK forces. Who stands to benefit from the ‘war’ going on for a long time? $$$


  331. hellinabucket says:

    You are probably correct Dan. I suspect the video was made for Sadr and his followers. You can hear the chants of “Moqtoda” right before he drops. I’m not sure on the defense contractors. They have already made their money and now they don’t have much in the way of progress to show for it. The violence has made it difficult to build up the infrastructure (probably the number 1 thing that all involved should focus on).

    But now there is mounting evidence of missuse of the no bid contracts. From feeding the troops to building training complexes the scandals are an epidemic.

    So why is it that we aren’t allowed to have oversight and to see where the money has been spent and where they think it should go next? Because it would blow the cover off of what has already taken place. Which is the robbing of US citizens in the name of fear.


  332. Happy Guy says:

    Is Tom Brokaw a total A$$hole? We did not kill him, they did. Even after killing millions of people if this jerk was in America he would still have 12 years of appeals left.

    We should learn from them. Sentance to be carried out, 30 days!


  333. mighty aphrodite says:

    “….My problem lies with the current administration…”
    Comment by Helen Bucket

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  334. mighty aphrodite says:

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  335. el kanuckistani says:

    317
    *******Dear Mr./Ms. Bowman – Do you realize how sick 51% of this country is with the “America Can Do No Right” crowd? Is this place perfect? Not by a long shot – it’s run by humans who are incapable of perfection. BUT it is the greatest concept and attempt at freedom in history.

    I’m not so sure about the “run by humans” part. My theory is the alliens have landed, have taken human form (bush, Rumsfeld,Cheney,etc) and are using the planet and the people for their own purpose……much like humans did to everyone else as they conquered them. Just ask an Indian.
    Can’t believe I’m actually responding to ma. Must be a personality flaw I wasn’t aware of!


  336. hellinabucket says:

    350. Well little miss pissy you do see how poorly this administration has pushed this military conflict. Good for you. Now you have to stay away from the Stupid Soup and make those uncomfortable realizations that this current administration is not the conservative republicans they said they were.

    This country is at it’s strongest when the principles of the Constitution is openly followed. Not when it’s circumvented in back room deals.

    That’s not against republicans and for democrats. I’ll be pointing out failures to abide by the Constitution whenever it happens.

    You, my little hankerchief, are just a verbal punching bag.

    Keep coming back and showing your hypocracy. I’ll keep asking the same question.

    How can you support freedom and Bush at the same time. Logical heads would explode.



  337. Nick says:

    The execution turned into a sordid little circus, and managed to provide Saddam Hussein with the moral high ground for probably the only time in his life. Add this to the litany of disgrace that is this conflict.


  338. MarchDancer says:

    Too many commenters who know each other from ‘way back.

    Too many foul-mouthed trolls. However, are they really trolls or just commenters with a different viewpoint? Did some of you get side-tracked by the words of argument?

    If the ones who know each other as commenters would step up to the plate as honest debaters, this could be a great site. I see the signs of that.

    I do know that some trolls are only here for the nastiness that starts their days off right. I’d hate to be in their families or to be their co-workers after they’ve had their daily shot of the nasties! BTW, I mean on both sides of the hatefulness in this blog.

    Suggestion I hope will not be tossed aside immediately: ignore the nasty ones, carry on your dialog as if you had hit an “ignore” button on AOL. I’ve been on other sites, as the leader, and that worked. Just announce at the very first comment: All who are here for the Nightly Fights will be ignored by all other commenters. This boxing ring has closed {{shrug of shoulders}} as I see the looks of disdain on too many faces.

    I’ll check in once in a while to see if anyone has calmed down their rhetoric.


  339. Political Waves » Notes on the lynching says:

    [...] Brokaw: Hussein Execution ‘Resembled The Worst Kind Of Nightmare Out Of The Old American West’ ThinkProgress [...]


  340. Chris in NM says:

    Hey, MA. Rush is in the radio. It is time for you to get your ‘education’.


  341. Craig R. Lane says:

    Is the time for everyone to get along well past? Would it be better for all of us to be “United” even if we are ALL wrong. The people who want to get along are usually the good eggs. The “people” that the good eggs believe that they want to get along with are usually the ones holding the guns. I think that the whole ‘Harry Reid says that Arlen Specter is such a dear friend’, (w/ Arlen all the while selling out our freedoms-at the same time giving the appearance of being a GOP centrist or moderate), is explicitly wrong. Maybe it is time that we all exploded and didn’t get along. Maybe it is time to find out if, in fact, the meek SHALL inherit the earth. I hope they do, even if they inherit a burned out husk of a corpse riddled planet, they stand a better chance than WE do right now.


  342. hellinabucket says:

    I’ll go on a limb here Craig and say……..No, we aren’t past getting along. What’s needed is more involvement. by all sides. When less than 20% decide who run this country we get what we deserve. If we had 60% or higher involvement in our govt. then more would not slip by.

    Most people here and in this country are middle of the road folks. We just let the radical extremes do our deciding for us.

    I can’t give up trying and I’m not ready to give my children any less than my best.


  343. Carl Gordon says:

    All peice-nicks should get haircuts, take baths, and get a job! Peice sign = footprint of the american chicken!


  344. sheik_sebir says:

    SH was America’s man in the Middle East. How did the Bush Crime Family know that SH had WMDs? Halliburon’s CEO, Dick Cheney, personally sold them to him, illegally, of course. The US put him in power to serve “Our” national interests – the same butcher they now condemn, and supported his war with Iran with all the weapons he wanted.
    SH was told by the US that the US would do Nothing if he addressed his grievances over slandted oil drilling by Kuwait, then Bush41 sent troops to “defend” Kuwait, a known advocate of democracy ;-> – no Kuwait is ruled by an aristocracy! Dubya used US troops to set up an Islamic Republic – who has far more in common with IRAN!
    SH did not throw the weapons inspectors out of Iraq – Dubya all but told them to leave because he was going to invade, along with the Coalition of the Coerced. But when SM threatened to sell oil in Euros was apparently the last straw – but Dubya had planned the invasion of Iraq, and had his Coalition of the Coerced ready, even before 9/11.
    Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 – Dubyal has said so himself – why can’t you believe him? Is the new US foriegn policy to invade any country whose government “we” don’t like? Do you younglings feel a strong cold draft ?
    There are far worse tyrants than SM- Oh, most of them are our allies.


  345. bill peppin says:

    362, I recommend you to the following book by Michael Nagler, “Search
    for a Nonviolent Future.” In this book, and others more recent, the simple point is made that ONLY! through grass-roots nonviolent (”peiceful”) means has ANY! real democracy emerged anywhere in the world at any time. Before you equate those who advocate “peice” with chickens or the like, compare yourself and your views/actions with those of Gandhi. He was able to start a movement that created the world’s most populous democracy, strictly through nonviolent means and his great strategy of satyagraha. In pursuit of these ends, entirely unselfish, he underwent quite considerable personal suffering over tens of years and eventual assasination. Was the American woman Rachael Corrie a chicken when she placed her body in front of Israeli bulldozers to stop the destruction of Palestinian settlements in the West Bank, only to have the Israelis run over her with said bulldozers?


  346. Nelson says:

    “It’s obveous that the liberals cant count! All the do-badders that get caut are the ones beeing kilt. The comparrisions to Vietnam are spirrious at best. Bush has one ofthe finest foregn policy teams assembled that is possible. We ARE winning in Iraq – Every day! If you can’t get on board and come in for the big kill on the enemies of liberty, than you should just go and kill yourself! Let’s support the presient 100% in everyting he does! If the past 6 years has tought us anything, it’s that the Repubilcans have restored intelligense, dignitty, and morels to the White house and the country. We are respected not only for our mite, but our integritty everywhere in the world. No peace without 100% victory and death to all enemies of America and Bush. Down with Fashists – Support Bush!!!
    Comment by Carl Gordon — January 2, 2007″

    OK, come on, this has to be a joke. I can’t believe the possibility that anyone could make so many ludicrus spelling misteaks! The illiterate are not necessarily stupid, but the stupid are often illiterate.

    obveous = obvious
    cant = can’t
    caut = caught
    beeing = being
    kilt = killed
    comparrisions = comparisons
    spirrious = spurious
    presient = president (not all that prescient either)
    everyting = everything
    Repubilcans = Republicans
    tought = taught
    morels = morals (morels are great mushrooms though)
    intelligense = intelligence
    dignitty = dignity
    mite = might (although we are mites in terms of our morels)
    integritty = integrity
    Fashists = fascists

    No, this HAS to be a joke. Nobody is that stoooopid, er, except for our presient. And if anyone is a “Fashist” it is George W. Bush and his grandfather Prescott, who was an actual Nazi collaborator and war profiteer. The nut didn’t fall far from that tree.

    It scares me that this might be real…


  347. mighty aphrodite says:

    Nelson – You might want to congratulate Carl – he only had one spelling error in the following sentence:
    “All peice-nicks should get haircuts, take baths, and get a job!”

    It should have read:
    “All peace-nits should get haircuts, take baths, and get a job!”

    (You’re welcome, Carl…)


  348. hellinabucket says:

    Nice to see you again Mighty. interesting how instead of answering my question and attempting to defend your stance you assume I’m a flag bearer for the democrats. And then you proceed to regurgitate talking points that aren’t backed by sqwat.

    Just for fun I’ll tear your little piece apart.

    a.) Dems are the censors behind “hate-speech”. What, where and why is this little ditty here? So it’s ok to say “If the Democrats win the election, Al Qiada wins and America loses. No it’s not OK and that is a hateful speech. I won’t even go into Mr. Goode’s blabble.
    b.) Dems hope to appease our enemies so they won’t terrorize us. Prove this our shut the f#ck up. Or better yet, if you continue with this complete nonsense I will be digging up the DUI’s, AWOL allegations and cocaine use of the current holder of the WH.
    c.) Dems rely on the behemoth bureaucracy of the UN and other One-worlders… and then wonder why things are MORE screwed up. Oh yeah well………well nothing, this is crap. Nothing more than a scared ranting from a feeble mind.

    I could just as easily say how the republicans are sucking us dry to feed the special interests and lobbys while they line there pockets. Or that it’s common knowledge that real republican men have erectile disfunctions so they get “special training” from young male pages. Or how about how republicans are so adamant about protecting all human life, that is until it’s born, then f#ck em. Unless of course they can die for our country.

    All of the above is just ramblings that have nothing to do with what my argument was but you couldn’t honestly answer it so you jump off to the side and throw mindless crap.

    You are supporting a President that has yet to be held accountable for the money that has been misshandled. See, I didn’t go off on any other issues I may have with Republicans. I stuck to the issue. You can’t so I’ll deal with you on your own little level. But remember this, none of your arguments will mean anything if you can’t answer how you can support an administration that is not following the rules of law and has not been conducting proper oversight.


  349. Raymond Emerson says:

    Let me twist a little and paraphrase Ghandi. I do not feel elevated because I am a citizen of country whose hand picked government in Bagdad killed Saddam. I do not feel elevated.


  350. Zip says:

    Brokaw’s “he did have a trial” masks the reality: it was a show trial, with hearsay evidence, defense lawyers being murdered serially, and many other irregularities that mocked our oft-stated goal of establishing democracy in Iraq. It was shameful, so the rushed and disgraceful execution is really no surprise, just a logical outgrowth.


  351. mercury says:

    Darkness and light…
    ‘I call on you not to hate because hate does not leave space for a person to be fair. It makes you blind and closes all doors of thinking.’ The man who said this was hanged on Saturday. Even in the coldest hearts, there are places where the warmth of wisdom still shines. Conversely, even in the most enlightened minds, there can still be areas where the ugly shadows of ignorance fall. As long as any human being on this earth sees justification in killing another human, no matter how terrible their crimes… we are all living in darkness.
    - Jonathan Cainer


  352. John says:

    Mr Brokaw is absolutely right on this issue here as we look like we’re coming out of the OLd West here. This incident resembles the old Hollywood Western of Hang ‘Em High. These people that participated in this fiasco are like a rock but dumber.


  353. confused says:

    As my name states, I am truly confused….I thought that Hussein’s trial was held by his countrymen? Wasn’t the judge middle eastern? I do realize the trial as a whole seems farcical, but at least he was given something along the lines of jurisprudence.

    Also, in reference to the comment by “Mercury”…um, it seems slightly naive to believe that Saddam’s words truly came from his heart, yes? It is easy to use words to sway people, and if you, mercury, are any measure of it’s yield, it worked. That letter was released just in the nick of time to gain support and add to his martyr status, don’t you find that lucky? Hmmm.

    And what exactly would you have the world do with mass murderers? People seem to be high and mighty saying Saddam’s execution was something out of the old west, and too quick, but it followed the laws of the land, right? Their condoned method of execution is death by hanging, and it makes sense that it should happen quickly…only in America does it take 20 years for someone’s sentence to be carried out. But back to my original question: what would you have the world do with such a terror? Would you like to see Hitler tucked away in some jail, getting all the food and sustenance he needs while people touched by his hatred still have nightmares about it? Would you prefer that Stalin had lived out his days in the same manner? Offer some other solution that will truly keep people safe….I’m listening (well, reading). Until then, death to such an evil man seems due.


  354. Vic Anderson says:

    WHILE our Constitutional rights are being equally egregiously execute by the Busher of Bagmen on our posts as of 12/20/06.


  355. kman says:

    Wow, I just read alot of these posts and they are quite interesting. The hanging was creepy but it’s done. Now we have to deal with the mess again that we caused. Any American who denies this war was a HUGE mistake is clueless. Billions of dollars being spent over there that need to be spent domestically, (national security, education, health care, etc.) and more importantly ALL of the lives lost that has caused pain and suffering to millions. If congress doesn’t not impeach Bush, although i would like to see it, they should at least expose the questionable policy decisions and faulty intelligence that this failure of a president has overseen.


  356. bugjackblue says:

    I don’t understand why so many people keep insisting this whole Iraq thing is such a “failure.” Wasn’t the whole point of the invasion to remove a unified central government which could enforce a national oil policy and replace it with perpetual civil war? US troops’ forever-after presence could thus be justified and when they retreat to the huge permanent bases we’ve built to support/protect the oilfields, the mission will have been truly accomplished. Bush’s war has in fact been a tremendous success in all regards, at least for those on whose sole behalf the entire strategy was designed. Saddam in his underwear, Saddam’s execution, Abu Ghraib… none of it accidental, all of it designed to inflame the mobs and those wacky paranoid clerics. Civil war good.

    Now I’m fairly sure Bush didn’t think these things up himself. He’s not that creative. But then he’s not as stupid as he’s portrayed to be either. And Cheney and his neo-con think-tankers are certainly not stupid (or careless) either. And oil company execs are surely amongst the shrewdest, most pragmatic, and most viciously amoral specimens in our society. Nope, it was all supposed to work out more or less just this way, and those who whine about the interests of the “American people,” or America as a nation, or the Iraqi people, or indeed humanity in general, just don’t get it. It was never about any of that. Get with the program, ok? Buy some oil-company stock with those huge tax-breaks you got. You did get a huge tax-break, didn’t you? Oh, yeah, well whose fault is that? Why didn’t you contribute to W’s campaign? Aw, stop whining and get back to mopping that floor…


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  358. Pablo says:

    Tom Brokaw’s “Greatest Generation” fire-bombed Dresden, obliterated Berlin, nuked both Hiroshima and Nagasaki and he’s upset over the way Saddam Hussein was hung? And for which he blames the U.S. !!!! When did Tom change his stripes????????????


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