Ellison To Be Photographed With Koran Owned By Thomas Jefferson
Ellison To Be Photographed With Koran Owned By Thomas Jefferson
Conservatives have repeatedly argued that Muslim Rep.-elect Keith Ellison’s (D-MN) decision to take an unofficial swearing-in photograph with his hand on the Koran was un-American.
Rep. Virgil Goode (R-VA) warned last month that “if American citizens don’t wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran.” Talk show host Dennis Prager said Ellison’s act “undermines American civilization.”
In a symbolic decision showing how misguided this argument is, Ellison has chosen to take his photograph with a personal copy of the Koran once owned by Thomas Jefferson:
Jefferson’s copy is an English translation by George Sale published in the 1750s; it survived the 1851 fire that destroyed most of Jefferson’s collection and has his customary initialing on the pages. This isn’t the first historic book used for swearing-in ceremonies — the Library [of Congress] has allowed VIPs to use rare Bibles for inaugurations and other special occasions.
Jefferson was a champion of religious tolerance. His 1777 Draft of a Bill for Religious Freedom states…
…that our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right.
In an ironic twist, the Washington Post reports that Virgil Goode “represents Jefferson’s birthplace” of Albemarle County, Virginia, but had no comment on Ellison’s book choice.
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This is why Virgil Goode tops “The Avenging Angel’s List.”
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:34 ambecause Jefferson hated Democracy…
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 amA brilliant move by Keith Ellison. The new Democrats sure seem to have some brains.
Now if it can rub off on the old Republicans this nation may not be doomed after all.
-GSD
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 amGoode will have black grandkids and they will hate him.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 amCheck. Mate. Bravo Ellison!
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 am**snort**
Nice one, Rep Ellison.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 amBravo, Ellison! We need many more of these in-your-face, what-are-you-going-to-do-now symbolic actions.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 amWho knew?
Thomas Jefferson was a terrorist, hated the troops and wanted us to lose the war!
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 amPrager and other miscreants are so stupid as to be embarrassing.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:40 amWhy would taking an oath on a book you don’t believe in have any significance? The Koran is the book Ellison has faith in, so why is it so hard to think that it is the appropriate book for him?
Frankly, were I in that position, I would prefer NO book of faith, because they swear to uphold the secular Constitution of the USA.
Thomas Jefferson: Destroyer of American Civilization!
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:40 am2007 is not looking so good so far, since Bush lynched Saddam, and plans on escalating the Iraq war in the coming months!
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:41 amWhat’s the over-under on how long it will take before it’s brushed off as one of Jefferson’s many “philosophical/historical documents”?
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:42 ami wondered about that too, keith.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:45 amTrolls, trolls??!!??? Come out, come out where ever you are.
I can’t wait to hear how they spin this.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:45 amThere should be no religious texts of any kind in a government swearing in ceremony. The Bible, Koran, et al are filled with ritual slayings, gang rapes, calls to war, farcical timelines and social constructs that are hopelessly outdated.
If there was no religion, the twin towers would still stand.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:54 amHUH! Who knew that Jefferson was un-american? I mean, a champion of religious tolerence does not mold well in today’s pseudo-Christian intellect.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:55 amCan I get an A-MEN!
“The Gothic idea that we were to look backwards instead of forwards for the improvement of the human mind, and to recur to the annals of our ancestors for what is most perfect in government, in religion and in learning, is worthy of those bigots in religion and government by whom it has been recommended, and whose purposes it would answer. But it is not an idea which this country will endure.” –Thomas Jefferson to Joseph Priestley, 1800. ME 10:148
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:55 amGame > Set > Match to Congressman Ellison
BIG LOSER > Rep. Virgil Goode (R-VA)
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:56 am“It [has] been the wise policy of these states to extend the protection of their laws to all those who should settle among them of whatever nation or religion they might be and to admit them to a participation of the benefits of civil and religious freedom, and… the benevolence of this practice as well as its salutary effects [has] rendered it worthy of being continued in future times.” –Thomas Jefferson: Proclamation, 1781. Papers 4:505
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:58 amOh the irony of Goode representing Jefferson’s birthplace. It was said somewhere on another posting but it rings true.
When taking an Oath. You aren’t swearing to up hold the bible, koran, or any other book upon which you lay your hand. You are swearing that you will up hold the office which you were elected/appointed and abiding to all of the parameters previously set forth i.e. Constitution.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:59 amWhenever… preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science.” –Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815. ME 14:281
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:02 pm# 8
TOUCHE`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:08 pmLet the Jefferson bashing begin.
I heard he fathered a black child…just like McCain did.
Jefferson also spoke French. He also paid the French for some land out west instead of starting a war over it….what a wuss.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:10 pmI completely agree with TP on this one. People bashing religon are losers and they are wrong. TP got this one right. America should be about religon. Thank you TP for supporting religon. I look forward to you pushing more use of the Bible, the Ten comandments, and the Koran in the Federal Government. It is certainly refreshing to see Libs that understand that the USA is a country founded on Religon.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:10 pmGoode on ‘ya, Rep. Ellison!
Virgil, when Americans need your crap we’ll squeeze your head, OK?
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:11 pmWhooooosh!!!
That’s the sound of this topic going right over the head of RRoogeerr.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:15 pm“Thank you TP for supporting religon”
Reli-Gon is indeed a great product. I squeeze a little from a tube every day and - hey, all those people who (ostensibly) lead their lives based on a book compiled millennia ago by crazed, hallucinating desert-dwellers now just leave me and my science the hell alone! I support reli-gon as well! @_@
“Want religion GONE? Use /reli-gon/!”
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:19 pmWhy does Thomas Jefferson hate our freedom?
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:19 pmDlet,
Was the topic about how people should show more religious tolerence and that we should accept folks that are Muslim? If that was the topic, then I once again completely agree. TP should amke a point to delete any post and remove anyones access from posting here if they ever posts things that are not tolerant of others religion. People that Bash Christian or Muslims are complete fools. TP seems to agree. I look forward to TP posting some articles that rip those that are intolerant of Christianity next!!
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:20 pmQuestion with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:25 pmRRooggeerr,
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:27 pmThen you agree that people that speak ill about other people’s religion like Rep. Goode should be derided for their remarks. It would be better to hear you say that though. How do you feel about religious extremism? Can that be condemned? I think so. Christian exteremism….Islamic extremism, Jewish extremism…they all are hate filled puss sacs that need to be lanced. Your feellings.
If all the founding fathers came back and said their peices, they would be renditioned to a far away place.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:33 pmHow ‘ya gonna “idiocize” this one, Beck? Bravo for Ellison!
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:39 pmCheap bigoted congressman- 25 cents
Air time for bigoted comments about another congressman’s choice of the Quran for photo ceremony. 30 cents.
Copy of Thomas Jefferson’s Quran for said photo ceremony- Priceless, absolutely priceless.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:40 pmForTruth
I’ve been fantasizing how the founding fathers would be using blogging to advance their ideas. Many of them, particularly Jefferson, were prolific writers and much of what they wrote continues to be so germane to today’s issues. I can imagine them being more appalled than many of us progressives are at the philosophical, political climate of our time. Yeah, they might be renditioned but I bet they wouldn’t go quietly. Neither should we.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:41 pmFunny how 20wordsorless is so eeriely silent on this issue…he had so much to say earlier…
Pretty entertaining how he went on and on about the ‘principles of our founding fathers’, only for Ellison to use a Qur’an that was formerly owned by one of those very people he pretends to idolize so.
C’mon, 20wordsorless…I know you’re lurking around…I saw your mudslinging match with GooseEgg earlier. How do you respond to this?
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:43 pmThank you PLC.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:43 pmI don’t think the Trolls believe Jefferson had one of “those” books.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:44 pmTripMaster Monkey
20WOL wants to respond but he used up his 20 words as follows:
“um, well, you know, it is obvious, you see, that, um, this issue, of course, is, you know, rather, like…”
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:53 pmThere IS no religion in the official swearing ceremony. All the new Reps hold up their right hand and swear to uphold the Constitution.
There are no Bibles or Korans or Torahs or anything else at this ceremony.
The Bibles come out later, during the photo-ops. These are re-enactments of the ceremony for the voters at home.
So, the Repukes are bitching about a photo op. Repukes are losers.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:59 pm“TP should amke a point to delete any post and remove anyones access from posting here if they ever posts things that are not tolerant of others religion.”
And I think they should “amke” a point to delete posts by people who have no ability to check for spelling mistakes and grammatical gaffes because, quite frankly, they offend me.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:07 pm[…] So, we all know that the first Muslim congressman was elected to the US House of Representatives in November. I’m not sure how many of you have been following the ensuing controversy over his choice to be photographed/take the oath of office with the Qur’an. Here’s the lowdown… Keith Ellison (the Muslim Congressman-elect) said in an interview that he intends to be sworn in on the Qur’an rather than the Bible. An obvious choice for anyone who… well… isn’t an idiot. Unfortunately, a few “conservative” commentators and one Republican congressman went nuts, claiming that using the Qur’an was un-American and warned that there was an impending Muslim invasion. They demanded that Ellison swear on the Bible out of respect for a Christian nation. What they failed to acknowledge was the following: 1) The US Constitution (Article VI, Clause III) states: “The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” 2) No Congressman actually takes the oath of office with a Bible, either. They have a group swearing-in ceremony where they do not swear in on anything. The Bible only comes into play when they do their own private ceremony which is actually just a photo opportunity. Mr. Ellison simply plans on using the Qur’an in this private ceremony. Which, of course, makes sense given that he is Muslim. Anyway, to show how ridiculous this whole thing has become, Mr. Ellison has chosen to be photographed with the copy of the Qur’an that was owned by Thomas Jefferson. An excellent choice, given that the Republican congressman who criticized him, Virgil Goode from Virginia, claims to represent “Jefferson’s birthplace”, but obviously has contempt for Jefferson’s ideals of religious tolerance and the separation of church and state. Bravo, Mr. Ellison. For further reading: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 01/ 03/ AR2007010300075.html http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/03/ellison-jefferson/ http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/19/goode-islam/ […]
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:15 pmWhy does Thomas Jefferson hate America?
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:24 pmbut no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Some might call it un-American to call for a religous test in politics…
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 pmThere should be no religious texts of any kind in a government swearing in ceremony.
Comment by hepwa
You are right, and there isn’t. Religious texts are uses in private ceremonies and for photo ops.
Good for Ellison. Classy move.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:09 pmMy retarded belief in an imaginary Bronze Age thunder deity is more American than your retarded belief in an imaginary Bronze Age thunder deity!!!
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:09 pmMy retarded belief in an imaginary Bronze Age thunder deity is more American than your retarded belief in an imaginary Bronze Age thunder deity!!!
Comment by Murple
Nicely said! Or how about: My rumor is stronger than your rumor.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:15 pmOh the Irony of it all. Virgil Goode, from Va. having to accept Mr.E, a Muslim
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:22 pmusing a Koran, once owned by the Virginian of Virginians, to swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. Man, I love Karma.
See? back then people spent much of their time learning and philosophizing. No TV, you see. They took time to learn about other cultures and ways of thinking. Not only did it help them deal with other people, politics, and government, but it also helped them become better people.
Virgil Goode would do well to emulate Jefferson a bit more.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:29 pmPeople forget the ‘evangelization’ of the US is NOT our heritage, and is a recent and threatening trend…
“As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion….
“The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation.”
– Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, US Consul)
#48 Dr. Dre, You’re ignorant. Back then, Islam was powerful, not now. In Jefferson’s time, there was a place called the Ottoman Empire, which was quite huge and based on sharia law. As you see the U.S signed a treaty (tripoli1797)) because muslims (muslim pirates) controlled( sacked) the Mediterrenean sea. So , go to school moron.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:39 pmHow different could two men be?
One a so called patriot in Virgil Goode who is consumed by fear and will use fear to make his voice heard.
The other, Keith Ellision and by virtue of this story Thomas Jefferson, who will confront the notion of fear with truth, tolerance and an open mind.
Virgil Goode has been made a fool!
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:40 pmSorry, the original #48(DR DRE) has been removed. No offense to anyone.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:42 pmRogerRoger: “It is certainly refreshing to see Libs that understand that the USA is a country founded on Religon.”
“I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”
–Thomas Jefferson
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
–John Adams
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pmRogerRoger: “It is certainly refreshing to see Libs that understand that the USA is a country founded on Religon.â€
It would be helpful if you would list the number of references to god in the Constitution to everyone here. That should show them.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:54 pm[…] Is to be used in Keith Ellison’s ceremonial swearing-in, which amounts to little more than a photo-op. The Founding Fathers were well aware of the likelihood that “pagans, deists and Mohammedans” might obtain office when they wrote Article VI of the U.S. Constitution.  Hat tip: Sisyphus. Quote: Henry Abbott at North Carolina Ratifying Convention. […]
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:00 pmThis great nation was founded on religious freedom.
Not religion. Religious freedom.
You Rapture Repukes are too stupid to know the difference.
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:31 pm#31
I think that Rep. Goode is a fool and yes, he should be punched in the nose for acting like a jackass. Extremism in itself isn’t a bad thing when it comes to religon. It only is bad if violence is part of it. I have no problem with you or anyone else being Christian or Muslim extremist within your faith as long as it doesn’t involve violence. The moment violence occurs, it isn’t religon, it is simply a crime. Once again, I thank TP for standing up for American Values like Religon. It is very good to see that TP understands that religous freedoms and religon in general are founding cornerstones of America. Anyone that talks down about religion should be called out as religion is what makes this country great.
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pmIt is very good to see that TP understands that religous freedoms and religon in general are founding cornerstones of America.
Comment by Roger_Roger
I must have missed that where TP stated such understanding. Can you point that out to me? Because if you can’t it’s just in your head.
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:51 pm#57 - “religion is what makes this country great. ”
Comment by Roger_Roger — January 3, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
No, sweetie, it’s our freedom to practice or not practice religion that makes this country great.
Remember that the Bible supports slavery, and we all know how much that worked out for us, and almost tore our country apart a little more than one hundered years ago.
Freedom OF religion must include freedom FROM religion, or it is a meaningless freedom.
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:55 pmWow… “religion is what makes this country great” has to be one of the most moronic things I’ve seen online in a while. Religion is a social cancer and leads only to crippled dogmatic thinking and reluctance to better the world because, hey, Yahoowahoo or whatever will make it better if He wants to.
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:58 pmPracticing no religon is a religon. Again, religon is what makes this country great. I appreciate sites like TP that call out those that deride someone for there faith. It is completely unacceptable and TP understands that. When people talk down about Christians, Muslims, or Jews they should be called out. I also hope that those of you that support TP for calling out Rep. Goode would also support calling out anyone that talks down about Christianity.
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:58 pmRoger1: he should be punched in the nose for acting like a jackass
Roger2: The moment violence occurs, it isn’t religon, it is simply a crime.
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:01 pm#62 Violence in the name of religon is wrong as it truly isn’t part of religon. Violence for the sake of violence is completely different. While still wrong, it has nothing to do with religon sir.
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:06 pmleads only to crippled dogmatic thinking and reluctance to better the world
murple, that’s pretty dogmatic thinking there. Many of us are religious/spiritual, social activists, and rational.
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:06 pm#63 - “Violence in the name of religon is wrong as it truly isn’t part of religon.” Comment by Roger_Roger — January 3, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).
God orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3).
He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses†(Joshua 6).
In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!
In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).
http://www.evilbible.com/
Roger_Roger, why does God and the Bible hate religion so much?!?!?
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pmPracticing no religon is a religon.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Religion
1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Please pick which definition of religion leads you to believe that not believing in religion is considered practicing religion.
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:17 pmGod can do what he wants. He is the religon and all powerful, thus he doesn’t live by the rules, he does what he wants. Violence in the name of God is wrong however. God himself doing what he does is a whole different story.
Although you may be on to something. God and Jesus did in fact no like those that turned religon into what it isn’t. Worshipping the Bible or the Church Building is wrong. God demands that we worship only him. Religon isn’t about the Bible, or a Church, or a Preist. It is simply the faith and relationship we have with God himself.
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm#67 - Roger_Roger, I agree whole heartedly with your second paragraph! ;-)
One of my favorite quotes from the Bible is:
Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.”
- Jeremiah 14:13
My partner considers himself a pagan, but I believe in live & let live. We get along because we respect our right to practice our faith as we feel it calls to us.
Of course some of my Christian friends think I’m wrong for being gay, but that’s their problem. Not mine. ;-)
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:36 pm#67 God is not religion. Religion is how you woorship all the ritual and ceremony etc… God is simply god period.
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:54 pm[…] Update: In true Washington showmanship, Ellison will swear in holding not just any Koran, but the personal copy of none other than Thomas Jefferson. Bookmark to: […]
January 3rd, 2007 at 5:31 pmPoor Roger Roger! So very, very confused…
Practicing no religon is a religon. Again, religon is what makes this country great. I appreciate sites like TP that call out those that deride someone for there faith.
Comment by Roger_Roger — January 3, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
Religon? Is that the stuff in a tube?
I don’t deride anyone for their beliefs, to their face. But I am entitled to think they are deluded idiots, that’s my own right to free thinking.
January 3rd, 2007 at 5:47 pmOn the other hand, I love to deride people’s lousy spelling! Roger Roger, if you don’t want us to dismiss you as an ignorant foll, try proofing your posts before you hit “post - I agree”!
damn commies! how can we get these communist freaks out of the states? what happened to good old belief in god? now all these muslims and there satinism is taking over the halls of congress. what are we to do? i have some ideas on my blog for starters.
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:04 pmThis in only interesting in the sence that while Thomas Jefferson was enlightened enough to own both a Koran and a Bible (I also suspect that he read them and did not just keep them on a shelf to impress his friends). I very much doubt we will be able to find a bible for the Christian democrats to swear in with that was in the possesion of some great Islamic leader. Somehow those bibles keep ending up as tinder. Also lets just say that a Natzi won election to the House and FDR happened to have a copy of Mein Kampf in his library. Would it mean anything in particular… Not really, almost every library (even ones in Germany and Israel) have copies of that book. In short, this is a stunt and it unfortunately seems to be working.
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:05 pm[…] From Think Progress (article about Keith Ellison being photographed with a Qur’an). The above linked article quotes Thomas Jefferson’s 1777 bill for religious freedom, and I found the quote to be well worthy of posting here: …that our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right. […]
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:45 pmFool, not foll! Ha, I must attend to that mote in my eye…
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:43 pmAnyone with common sense knows that religious freedom is the very essence of the American way of life. We can’t engage in the same vile hatred that radicals espouse around the world.
The question is does Ellison have the ability to be an effective Representative of his district and the voters have made a choice.
http://www.enewsreference.com
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:59 pm[…] story No Comments so far Leave a comment RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI Leave a comment Line and paragraph breaks automatic, e-mail address never displayed, HTMLallowed: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <em> <i> <strike> <strong> […]
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:04 pmSKdeA said:
Roger Roger, if you don’t want us to dismiss you as an ignorant foll, try proofing your posts before you hit “post - I
agreeâ€!
You misspelled “fool” in your own post being critical for bad spelling. Nice.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 pmWhen will the Christians ever learn. The intolerance is both mind-boggling and hypocritical. Their own Bible preaches tolerance and forgiveness. Yet, instead, they bestow prejudice and hatred on all that is different. Their own hatred of atheists is especially mind numbing. They have yet to figure out that atheists are their best defense against the ‘attacks’ they perceive to be under. Atheists believe all religions to have the same merit. Therefore we would not allow one to run roughshod over another. Why would any rational person object to someone using a Quran? Wouldn’t that same person using a Bible be then a lying hypocrite himself?
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:33 pmWho would you rather work beside…a Muslim or a spineless liar?
America is not Christian. So says the Treaty of Tripoli. The pilgrims fled to America to avoid religious persecution where they now live to exercise themselves. Shame.
Everyone here speaks as though there is no history. If this were true I might be somewhat persuaded by your arguments. However, we do have a 4000 year history of the Arabic people. We have a 1500 year history of the Muslim people since Islam reared it’s ugly head. What on earth makes you think Islam is good? Where do you find your comfort? Have you seen any change for the better in the past 1500 years? I see only a worsening if that be possible. All but 2 of the many wars now raging in the world are involving Muslims as the aggressors. Yet without any reason or logic you keep telling me these are peaceful people. Even the Muslims living in our country where they have very little strength are contending with our laws and government. They are trying and in some cases are succeeding to force our towns, schools and prisons to bow to and accommodate them. I have some real problems with our “justice system.†Still they have finally realized that a person who keeps indulging themselves in criminal and antisocial behavior are not going to change. Now many states have what’s called the 3 strikes you’re out tolerance procedure. If anything is criminal and antisocial, then that would be Islam. How many strikes do we need to provide them before we can no long tolerate their behavior? Personally, I see them as striking out centuries ago. If they desire to show me how peaceful they are and how much they love my country, then let them come and accept our laws, our way of life and stop confronting and demanding that I conform to theirs. Do you really desire to be ruled under Islamic law? I say to all who do desire this, go away. There are many opportunities in this world to have this imposed upon you without troubling me with your evil.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:39 pmLloyd
Lloyd, if it had not been for the relatively enlightened Muslim world of the middle ages, you would still be sticking flowers up your nose to ward off the pox and setting fire to people’s grannies. Forget history? Did you forget the Crusades - thousands of well-armed, homicidal, religious maniacs who appear without warning in the muslim lands, waving a Bible in one hand and putting babies on spits in the other?
Sure, religious zealotry is all around us and if you think you should cast aside 500 years of western civilization in order to go back to the middle ages to refight the Crusades then you need to understand - this time they will win. The demographic is not in the West’s favor if and 25,000 committed Iraqis can paralyze the most dominant military force in history, you are left contemplating nuclear genocide.
The answer lies in confronting religious extremism everywhere and holding up the fruits of the Enlightenment and Age of Reason with a chance for for everyone to share.
Do you really desire to be ruled under Islamic law?
Oops that’s a straw man Lloyd, you must have been getting frustrated.
January 4th, 2007 at 12:33 amYes roger_roger this country was founded on religion..freedom of it and freedom from it..wait…wasn’t George Washington a Quaker? Free Masonry is a religion!!
January 4th, 2007 at 12:51 amPracticing no religon(SIC is a religon(SIC). Again, religon(SIC) is what makes this country great. I appreciate sites like TP that call out those that deride someone for there(SIC) faith.
Comment (repeated a number of times) by Roger_Roger
R_R,
January 4th, 2007 at 1:06 amIf you want to discuss religion so much, you might start by learning how to spell it.
….but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.â€
“Ellison has chosen to be photographed with the copy of the Qur’an that was owned by Thomas Jefferson…..”
Why is this Muslim man, Ellison, allowed to become part of the US Government? Any Muslim should be banned from taking any sort of role in the Government of the USA, at all levels… even School Boards and Municipal bodies, because all Muslims are extremely backward and ignorant, and do not deserve the so-called religious tolerance that is apparent in the USA.
Muslims believe in Sharia law (which degrades women horribly, bans proper education of citizens, and allows innocent women to be stoned to death). Muslims are backward as they still live in the era of 14 centuries ago. Muslims are wicked and dangerous, as the Koran calls for all infidels (unbelievers) to be executed and destroyed.
Muslims are extremely corrupt, dangerous and weird, as they say that their prohet must be believed and obeyed… this is extremely dangerous, because their prophet Mohammed was a deranged psychopath who was also a pedophile who married a nine-year-old girl and sexually diddled her willingly. The Islam way of life, and the Muslim religion, are backward and ignorant and should be banned totally from all Western contries.
Ellison, a believer in Mohammed - a child molester and pedophile, should be banned from any Government post, period.
January 4th, 2007 at 2:01 am[…] Other Bloggers Weigh In: MemeOrandum (great collection of links!); Wonkette (another “must read” Wonkette report on Rep. Virgil Goode HERE); Political Animal; Hot Air; DownWithTyranny; Riehl World View; Daily Kos; Think Progress; PoliBlog ™; AMERICAblog; Don Surber; Crooks and Liars; skippy the bush kangaroo Technorati Tags:Â 2006, Civil Liberties, Congress, Current Events, Democrats, Elections, Headline News, Headlines, Hipocrisy, Keith Ellison, Koran, Muslims, News, News and Politics, Politics, Religion, Religious Right, Republicans, Senate, Separation of Church and State, Virgil Goode […]
January 4th, 2007 at 2:29 am[…] The religious bigotry continues in Washington DC without shame however it has a sweet twist. Story is here and additional story is here  […]
January 4th, 2007 at 2:40 amYeah Roger Roger, lack of religion is a religion about as much as baldness is a hair color.
January 4th, 2007 at 9:33 amRoger Roger you are morally bankrupt if you feel that God can kill, murder, and order rapes and animal sacrifices.
I don’t care if you’re creater of the effing universe, killing, rape, and slavery are effing wrong. Glad that phuck of a god doesn’t exist.
January 4th, 2007 at 9:37 am[…] Think Progress brings us an interesting update to the recent Virgil Goode bigot eruption over the democratic election of Keith Ellison, a Muslim. Goode, you’ll remember, has equated the Ellison victory to helping bring about an environment making the next September 11 a reality. In fact, you would think Ellison’s plan to use the Koran in an unofficial, swearing-in photograph - to listen to the Goodes, Glenn Becks and Dennis Pragers of the world - means the end of America as we know it. […]
January 4th, 2007 at 9:59 am# 89 .. America is already not the America we knew. I can no longer rush to the airport .. get there 10 minutes before my flight departs, get my ticket and run down to the gate and make my flight. The fun of flying has been reduced to the fear of flying. My child isn’t allowed to pray in school, but many schools are setting up prayer rooms to accommodate the prayer needs of the Muslim children. Prisons are doing the same thing. I would never be allow to preach for 2 minutes 5 times a day over loudspeakers covering my town. Yet in some towns this is what Muslims have pushed for and received. No .. the America we knew isn’t here anymore. I grew up in a very different environment. Is it the Muslim’s fault this has happened. No .. it’s our fault for allowing this to happen. Sleep on America .. sleep on.
January 4th, 2007 at 12:23 pmOh please …you can pray in any school you want. You poor saps just feel martyred because you’re not allowed to force the entire student body to pray your way.
January 4th, 2007 at 1:28 pm[…] Today, following the official swearing-in process for the 110th Congress, newly elected Rep. Keith Ellison (D-CA) posed with his wife Kim and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Ellison and Pelosi placed their hands on a copy of the Koran once owned by Thomas Jefferson: […]
January 4th, 2007 at 5:28 pmSome of the news stories like to make it sound like Jefferson believed and followed the Koran. Owning the Koran means nothing about what Jefferson believed about it. He was a deist. I have a Jehovah’s Witness Bible in my library and don’t believe or follow it. Congress is never perfect, whoever is in control, but Lord help us from more social engineering now that you liberals are in charge again.
January 5th, 2007 at 8:57 amSocial engineering? What do you think the whole Republican party has been doing this last decade and more? Asking the government not to engage in social engineering is like asking the driver not to steer. Here’s what I call social engineering: forming a more perfect union, establishing justice, insuring domestic tranquility, providing for the common defense, promoting the general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. Providing equality before the law, and not regarding the devotees of one religion as “more American” than another is forming a more perfect union, establishing justice, promoting the general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty. Why is it that when “liberals” seek to establish justice, conservative cry foul?
January 6th, 2007 at 3:28 pm[…] One blogger I ran across coyly pointed out the following excerpt from Jefferson’s 1777 Draft of a Bill for Religious Freedom, once more, a further attempt to infer justification for Keith Ellison’s actions: …that our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right. […]
January 14th, 2007 at 11:53 amWhy don’t they swear in on the Constituition or Declaration of Independence? It is the office of the GOVERNMENT you are swearing to uphold - not a church or mosque and neither God or Allah are president.
January 30th, 2007 at 4:08 pmIt would do well for our citizens to be acquainted with their US History which clearly showed that Thomas Jefferson was no fan of the Quran. In fact its reading served to help him conclude that the only way to end the Barbary Coast piracy was not tribute or diplomacy but to respond to the declaratiopn of war by the caliphates when their demands were not met with war. The US involvement (which we won) freed the Barbary Coast and the world from Muslim terrorism of the seas.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:25 pmCheck out articles by Christopher Hitchens in Time Magazine , “To the Shores of Tripoli”and Dr. Rand Fishbein (PHD from John Hopkins Univ.) article in The National Interest Magazine entitled Echoes from the Barbary Coast” and Kevin J. Hayes ” How Jefferson read the Quran”- March22, 2004 in the journal of Early American Literature……just to name a few…..also read history books prior to 1947….Humanists managed to distort history after 1947.
[…] reading: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 01/ 03/ AR2007010300075.html http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/03/ellison-jefferson/ http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/19/goode-islam/ […]
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