FBI reports duct-taping, ‘baptizing’ at Guantanamo.
By on Jan 3rd, 2007 at 12:26 am
FBI reports duct-taping, ‘baptizing’ at Guantanamo.
“FBI agents witnessed possible mistreatment of the Koran at the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, including at least one instance in which an interrogator squatted over Islam’s holy text in an apparent attempt to offend a captive,” new documents show. In other incidents, “interrogators wrapped a bearded prisoner’s head in duct tape ‘because he would not stop quoting the Koran’”; another interrogator “dressed as a Catholic priest before ‘baptizing’” a detainee.
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if it’s true about the “baptizing” then it’s attempt at demeaning a religion suceeded. Just the wrong one.
I wonder how many churches are being built at the new Gitmo complex. I wonder how many mosques.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:34 am“FBI agents witnessed…”
who’s gonna argue with that? …uh, guess…
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:36 amyeesh…
Alberto is already working on a legal paper that will negate FBI agents with having to be saddled with anything resembling a conscience
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:48 amWe don’t need no stinking badges.
-Alberto the Torturer
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:05 amThe baptism allegation is interesting, in that any christian can baptize; you don’t have to be a priest.
Of course, as #1 points out, such a stunt only resulted in an unintended insult, not the one that was intended.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:07 amSome of the stories really make me wonder what in the world is going on in Guantanamo. Like this one:
interrogators [...], in one case, had inadvertently sprayed urine on a copy
How exactly does anyone “inadvertently” spray urine on a book?
Or this one:
one interrogator bragged to an FBI agent that he had forced a prisoner to listen to “Satanic black metal music for hours,” then dressed as a Catholic priest before “baptizing” him.
These people have very unsettling fetishes. They actually go to the length of playing “dress up” before abusing their prisoners.
I don’t see how any of the abuse described could help extract any kind of useful information from the prisoners -the rationale that rightwingers use to excuse torture and abuse. Seems to me the guards are abusing prisoners simply because they can.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:19 amWrong? Yes. Torture? No. Hell no. Frankly, if this is the best they can do, no wonder we’re losing the Iraqi Civil War. It seems pretty evident that the Beavis-and-Butt-Head-Generation is in charge of “interrogation,” and I’m thankful that this is The Decider’s definition of “deciding” what torture is. Good thing He’s an idiot, or they’d be pulling fingernails out with pliers.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:45 amGITMO is being run like a Nazi Concentration Camp, so nobody should be surprised about torture and other crap happening there! Bush would probably have the Muslims interned there gassed to death, if he could get away with it!
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:22 amthis may look like spam, but it aint!
i just want people who live round chicago to go see it
(they shouldve advertised this show on the blogs!)
Karen Finley’s The Dreams of Laura Bush/The Passion of Terri Schiavo Debuts Jan. 3-7, at Bailiwick Repertory Theatre.
January 3rd, 2007 at 6:43 amFresh Mo Do snark just up to start your morning right.
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:25 amThe agent, whose account was corroborated by a colleague, said that a civilian contractor laughed about the treatment and was eager to show it off.
It’s time to get rid of the civilian contractors. This “program” was a bad idea from the beginning and should never have been allowed by Congress. Some of these contractors are doing jobs that our own military should be doing. But the Bush administration, I guess, doesn’t want to ask its soldiers to torture people (just shoot them), so they have contractors come in and do the illegal work. And it is illegal, no matter how they think they can justify it. When will this president face justice for his crimes against humanity? (If he likes it so much, he can face “Texas Justice”.)
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 amHarmless pranks… if the reports are even real.
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:39 amHarmless pranks… if the reports are even real.
Comment by 20wordsorless
You can tell who enjoys cruelty in this world. They make light of it whether it’s real or not. They laugh while doing it and brag about it later. They elevate themselves in their own minds because they were able to humiliate another human being, as if this is the standard in life to which we all aspire. In my opinion, anybody who thinks that what was done (if it was done, and I believe it was) was “harmless” does not deserve to live in a civilized society. For that is what we’re talking about here: the difference between civilized and uncivilized behavior. It’s pathetic, embarassing, and disgusting that the Bush administration chose to hire uncivilized people to do its work in our name. It’s time for this president to go.
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:49 amWe are actually paying these torturers salaries. I hate the thought of subsidizing torture with my money.
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:57 am20wordsorless is an idiot troll. Ignore him.
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:57 amWhat… too many wedgies and titty twisters in your time?
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:01 amFBI agents witnessed detainees actually enjoying this treatment–it makes them feel like one of the boys.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:07 amI case you missed Keith Olbermann last night…
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:08 am20wordsorless sez:
And this is coming from the person who believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible?
20wordsorless, I think you may need to read your Bible a little more closely…it looks like you skipped the New Testament entirely.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:33 amCan’t recall this use for duct tape getting a mention on The Prarie Home Companion.
Then along came BushCo and Gitmo to restore our faith in good ol’ American Christian Family Values. The uses for duct tape, it would seem, are truly boundless.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:40 amLighten up tripmaster, I’m only joking. I don’t approve of mistreating anyone.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:41 am20wordsorless sez:
Because torture is such fertile ground for comedy, isn’t it?
You’re sickening.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:47 amTripMaster Monkey,
Maybe 20words-is-all-my-brain-can-handle should read this little gem
Btw 20word-
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:49 amIt’s not funny.
Is this the best we can do for torture alligations?
one instance in which an interrogator squatted over Islam’s holy text in an apparent attempt to offend a captive,
interrogators wrapped a bearded prisoner’s head in duct tape
They acknowledged that soldiers and interrogators had kicked the Koran, had stood on it and, in one case, had inadvertently sprayed urine on a copy.
subjected to sexually suggestive tactics by female interrogators.
“Satanic black metal music for hours,” then dressed as a Catholic priest before “baptizing” him.
wrapping a prisoner in an Israeli flag, subjecting others to extreme heat and cold, and aggressively using strobe lights on others.
special sleep-deprivation tactics. The prisoners were moved frequently from cellblock to cellblock at intervals of two to four hours to interrupt their sleep, the agent said.
This all may be childish and stupid, even moronic, but is it really torture? If being offended, having my religion offended, and being deprived of sleep are forms of torture then every time someone on this site makes a derogitory statement about Christians, it is torture.
I do not condone torture, but lets not make EVERYTHING seem like torture.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:58 amTwo Words,
Jose Padilla.
Link is in my post above.
We are torturing these people, Robert, whether you turn a blind eye or not.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:02 amIf being offended, having my religion offended, and being deprived of sleep are forms of torture then every time someone on this site makes a derogitory statement about Christians, it is torture.
Comment by robert
Big difference here. You can leave. And if you think sleep deprivation is not torture then you have no idea what it means.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:05 amI do not condone torture, but lets not make EVERYTHING seem like torture.
Comment by robert
Perhaps you ahould ask yourself if it would be acceptable to you that a foreign government did all these things to you while keeping you in prison without bringing you up on charges for anything, or even giving you some indication that you might one day get to see a judge at all? If all this were happening to you, would you still be able to avoid calling it “torture”? You know, you aren’t supposed to mistreat prisoners in your care, either. (Obviously, some form of punishment for violating facility rules can be meted out, but at least there’s a reason to do that.) I think you’ll agree that if all this doesn’t constitute “torture”, at least it constitutes “mistreatment”. And that is no way for a civilized people to behave.
Have a nice day, everyone. Gotta go.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:06 amRobert, while not torture, I think it may be the tip of the ice berg. Even if it isn’t anything other than acting juvenile, what is the purpose of it? IMO, it’s an indication of the lack of professionalism and incompetence that is endemic to everything this administration is part of.
Call me naive, but I expect people working for the US gov’t to at least behave professionally.
While I’m glad to hear it, It’s a sad testimony of our times that one needs to implicitly say “I do not condone torture”.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:08 amdlet, Wayne and S.D., I do not think it is appropriate, I just do not think it is torture. It is maltreatment, I agree.
dlet, Jose Padilla needs an independant psych exam to determine his mental state.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:19 amBecause torture is such fertile ground for comedy, isn’t it?
You’re sickening.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Don’t lecture me you pompous ass. I’ve seen the venom that you and others regularily spew on these message boards, and now you want to act highly principled and assume an air of superiority over duct tape. You’re not fooling anyone except yourself.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:21 amI just do not think it is torture. It is maltreatment, I agree.
dlet, Jose Padilla needs an independant psych exam to determine his mental state.
Comment by robert
Exactly. Do you think his mental state was affected by “maltreatment” or torture?
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:27 amOkay then, robert, but if you’re going to agree to call it “maltreatment”, you can’t also call it “harmless.” “Maltreatment” isn’t “harmless”. Okay, you can go back to having your nice day. Thank you.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:28 am20wordsorless sez:
I’ll lecture all I like, jackass. I’ll lecture you each and every time you spew your idiocy here.
My words may seem like ‘venom’ to you, but that’s only because the truth burns your ilk like salt burns slugs.
That may well be, but that’s only because I do in fact feel superior to a subhuman grub that claims the reason we invaded Iraq is ‘irrelevant’, believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible (although we’re still unclear on exactly which version), and now seems to think the torture and degradation of fellow human beings by officials of our own country is high comedy.
Yes, 20wordsorless, I suppose to a person like you, who is clearly bereft of anything resembling principles, I would come off as ‘highly principled’…how could anyone not?
Neither one of us are fooling anyone, 20wordsorless…the difference between me and you is: I’m not trying to.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:36 amWayne A.,
I never called it harmless, but kicking the Quran may be insensative, but not torture.
dlet, I will not pretend to know whether Padillas mental illness is real or not. 1) I am not trained to know that, 2) Even if I were trained, I have not been able to examine him. Can mental illness be caused by maltreatment or ONLY by torture?
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:40 ami saw this flashed oin a cnn screen this morning as FBI reports AGGRESSIVE TREATMENT OF PRISONERS”
well, not knowing the story, who would even be concerned by that headline?!?!?!?
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:41 amCan mental illness be caused by maltreatment or ONLY by torture?
Comment by robert
Assuming that Padilla has been mentally affected by his handling (since you won’t go there because you are not trained to examine him….lame excuse by the way) having your mental capacity broken would be torture. Calling it maltreatment is a liars way out. If I broke your bones in your arm would that be maltreatment or torture? I didn’t break all your bones so how can that be torture or waterboarding…..if you don’t actually drown how can that be torture…you only “feel” like you are drowning. Do you want to call that maltreatment as well?
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:47 am[...] And here. [...]
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:58 amrobert,
I apologize. I confused your comments with another poster’s. This was an error on my part completely. I promise to pay more attention in the future. But do have a nice day.
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:02 amWayne A.
No Problem at all, have a good one.
dlet,
IF padilla is mentally affected it COULD BE from torture. Thing is, torture is too subjective of a term.
Sleep deprivation for MONTHS on end is, in my opinion, torture. Sleep deprivation for a week, in my opinion, is not.
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:13 amMy words may seem like ‘venom’ to you, but that’s only because the truth burns your ilk like salt burns slugs.
You call knee-jerk reactions to news stories and your automatic attacks on Republicans and Bush the truth? You’re not interested in the truth–only your version of it.
…I do in fact feel superior to a subhuman grub that claims the reason we invaded Iraq is ‘irrelevant’,…
Invalidating the reasons doesn’t change the fact that we’re there now. You want immediate withdrawal, but none of the experts agree with that approach. I guess they’re not aware of your superiority.
…believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible (although we’re still unclear on exactly which version),…
You’ve repeated this lame statement enough. It implies that you think different versions of the Bible mean different things. You are beyond ignorant. With the exception of the Jehovah Wittnesses Bible, the message is the same in all translatiions.
…and now seems to think the torture and degradation of fellow human beings by officials of our own country is high comedy…
High comedy? What’s funny is you actully believe that the equivalant of some frat boy hazing is torture! I’m not condoning the mistreatment of others, I’m making jokes about your mock outrage and your over-reactions.
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:19 amYou have no perspective and you’re incapable of approaching a news story with any degree of fair-mindedness. You can’t even deal with current events with any intellectual honesty, yet you mock me for believing the Bible. You are indeed a petty, little, and hateful person.
Nazi concentration camp? How far from real are you idiots. Did the Nazi give the jews holy books to read? They should not even have the Koran, soaked in piss or not. If you want to stop bad treatment of prisoners then go to Iraq where people get their heads cut off for trying to help build roads.
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:53 amAll of the above is torture. And I believe that’s true because of the cultural differences between us and those we torture.
Their perceptions about these various sick activities is different than our own. Does anyone really think that someone innocently “baptized” a prisoner? Or innocently got urine on a Koran?
Please. The torturers know what they’re doing, and they also know that some Americans will look at what they’re doing and say, “That doesn’t look like torture to me. Mistreatment, yeah, but not torture”
Ok, offer up yourself (or your wife, husband or child) for a fun-filled weekend of culture-appropriate torture, and let’s see how it feels when it’s over.
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:56 amDid the Nazi give the jews holy books to read? They should not even have the Koran, soaked in piss or not.
Comment by Happy Guy
So you are saying that we should make our prison camps more like the Nazi concentration camps. oookkkaaayyyy…..
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:59 amZooey, You have children, right. I remember my middle one did not sleep through thte night for the first 9 months of her life and my wife worked graveyard shift. For 9 months of my life, I slept in 2 hour streaches and worked 60-75 hours a week.
Was I tortured?
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:06 amChild abuse and spousal abuse are not even considered torture. But add culteral differences and now it becomes torture? Talk about faulty logic!
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:08 amSo you are saying that we should make our prison camps more like the Nazi concentration camps. oookkkaaayyyy…..
Comment by dlet
You’d have to be an idiot to think that’s what he meant.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:12 amSend more duct tape.More priests and jackboots!Support our troops and president.I have sent a case of that really good 3m duct tape and hooked up gitmo with a really good costume company.This is how I have supported the war on terror what have you done?
Comment by pickled pete
At any moment TripMaster Monkey will leap in to lecture you for thinking this subject matter is high comedy–Unless he’s the double-standard hypocrit I think he is.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:17 amThis is provocation, pure and simple. It seems to be a running theme in all our administration and supposed allies actions. Incite anger, hatred, and action. “Bring em on!” is the in your face mentality of the day, and consequently a very good way to perpetuate war and mayhem.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:19 amWell you have all the types who run the admin and the military, they think like Happy Guy. Then you have the image of the United States as percieved around the world. Whats better for the country? Letting Happy Guys do as they please, or maintaining our supposed status of a beacon of human rights and an example for the rest of the world to follow. Which is better, breeding more hate, or preserving our Principles?
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:20 am20words,
You wrap hamsters in duct tape, so you can ph*ck em.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:21 amFor 9 months of my life, I slept in 2 hour streaches and worked 60-75 hours a week.
Was I tortured?
Comment by robert
My eldest never slept through the night until he was 18 months old. But I was taking care of a child I loved and was in an environment where I felt relatively safe. I knew where I was. I could leave my home whenever I pleased. Although I was in Louisiana, I understood and spoke the language.
I’m going to take a wild guess and say you felt no more tortured than I did, Robert.
But did I feel tortured in a marriage where I was mentally and emotionally abused for 16 years? Yes. But even then, once I got my head straight, I was able to leave. The prisoners in Gitmo, and who knows where else, have no such opportunity.
You can do better than that, Robert, but I don’t know why you’d bother. None of us here has any real concept of what being tortured feels like.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:22 am20words,
You wrap hamsters in duct tape, so you can ph*ck em.
Comment by ForTruth
Get back on your exercise wheel–you’re next.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:24 amProvocation – just like the inane comments of 20Words, Robert, Happy Guy, and Pickled Pete.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:24 amZooey
None of us here has any real concept of what being tortured feels like.
You are right, we don’t. At the same time some people would call almost anything torture. That is the point I am making.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:29 amI’m a boy hamster 20words…
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:34 amNow this is why I visit this site — to get happy news like this! Those Gitmo guys are hilarious!
“Baptizing” the muslims? Brilliant!
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:34 amGooseEgg
I just want to make sure the term “Torture” is not watered down so much that legitimate interrogation techniques are not allowed.
I do not advocate duct taping someones head, but stuff like that happens in high school locker rooms every day and it is not concidered torture, just hazing.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:34 amForTruth #58, Does that matter? What makes you think that would stop 20wol? Ever see Deliverance?
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:35 amYou are right, we don’t. At the same time some people would call almost anything torture. That is the point I am making.
Comment by robert
I would amend one of your sentences as follows:
“At the same time some [Americans] would call almost anything torture.”
I have known women who would feel tortured if they couldn’t get to the mall.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:42 amI’m a boy hamster 20words…
Comment by ForTruth
Can anyone really tell the difference on hamsters?
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:45 amMy definition of torture.Being held hostage by the feeble progressive mind.
Comment by pistol petey
By all means, don’t stay for our benefit.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:47 amRobert,
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:53 amLegitimate interrogation techniques? By legitimate I assume you mean techniques that produce results. Please enlighten me, what have the results been, other than PROVOCATION. Oh, I concede your point; “but stuff like that happens in high school locker rooms every day and it is not considered torture”. I would call this assault and a police matter.
Sure he can, he tastes them first . Time to go and unplug the sewer , 20 words or less , assume command .
Comment by pistol petey
I might need to go as well–my hands are full of duct tape and hamster fur…
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:55 amGooseegg,
How do you suggest we get results? Tea and cookies maybe? Sometimes things like sleep deprivation need to be used, but not to the extent that they cause major irreversable damage.
Pissing on the Quran, Bible, or Hustler Magazine are not forms of torture.
If every woman that was sexually suggestive to me and then backed out was charged with torture then there would be more than a few women in jail now.
So, tell me what you find as acceptable.
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:59 amAn example of provocation:
Robert is a pinhead, I dare him to post another mind numbingly stupid comment.
20Words is a dolt, and unworthy of our attention. If he dares post here again I will give him a duct tape turbin and piss on his bible.
Happy Guy if …
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:03 pmI could go on, but why bother.
I’m still here GooseEgg,
I rather enjoyed your cowardly threats, even though you thought they were made in my absence. It sounds like you’ve got nothing but blustering objections to anything outside of your tiny little perspective. So go on… do your worst.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:16 pm…20Words is a dolt, and unworthy of our attention. If he dares post here again I will give him a duct tape turbin and piss on his bible…
I hate to point out the obvious, but how does this make you any different than some of the guards at Gitmo?
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:19 pm“How do you suggest we get results? Tea and cookies maybe?”
We should probably just revert to tactics used in witch trials. Those worked really well.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:24 pm“I hate to point out the obvious”, than don’t. Were I in a position to give you a duct tape turbin and piss on your bible, and you were a military prisoner, I would be behaving exactly like the guards at Gitmo. You are so very very astute.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:24 pmWere I in a position to give you a duct tape turbin and piss on your bible, and you were a military prisoner, I would be behaving exactly like the guards at Gitmo. You are so very very astute.
Comment by GooseEgg
And yet another glittering jewel of hate-filled tolerance exhibited by the left.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:28 pm“And yet another glittering jewel of hate-filled tolerance exhibited by the left.”
Comment by 20wordsorless — January 3, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
Project much?
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:35 pmGoosegg,
Is name calling really necessary?
There is a difference between torture and interrogation, but you make it sound as if all interrogation is torture. You have yet to provide one reasonable method, instead you start name calling and bomb throwing.
Again, I ask: What do you see as an acceptable way of extracting information from those accused of attacking U.S. forces or plotting to attack U.S. interests?
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:43 pmrobert: Clue: What the US calls interrogation is torture. Bush and Gonzalez just changed the definition of the word, and gave themselves immunity, to suit their methods.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:56 pmHey #44 dlet, how clueless are you? I was referring to #8 Jay Randal comparing GITMO to Nazi concentration camps. That shows what idiots are out on the left. If it were anything like a concentration camp they would not have holy books and prayer rugs. Every time I hear these absolutely stupid comments I see products of a failed school system.
Lets see, millions of innocent people shot, gassed, burnt, starved . . .
Terrorists given 3 square meals, holy books, prayer rugs. . .
Good comparison you America hating left wing nut.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:00 pmWhat the US calls interrogation is torture. Bush and Gonzalez just changed the definition of the word, and gave themselves immunity, to suit their methods.
Comment by Republicans are the fear and smear party
No, many here are attempting to redefine the word to suit their sensibilities.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:03 pmHappy,
You said that in the Nazi concentration camps they weren’t allowed holy books and then said that the prisoners in our custody are allowed these things and you said they shouldn’t. What is not to get. You want our prisoners to be treated as in the Nazi concentration camps. Not that far of a leap of logic. And I never said that our prison camps are Nazi concentration camps….only followed your line of thought.
Try follwing your own illogical rants. It’s difficult I know but try.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:08 pmThis is like a Miss America pagent—-
Host Tell me what torture means to you.
Contestant Torture means hurting someones feelings to me, and that is bad, and you shouldn’t do that. That’s what torture means to me.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:10 pmThey capture us — and behead us.
We capture them — and give them 3 (middle east appropriate) meals per day, Korans, prayer rugs, etc.
Yet, to the loonies on this site, we are the barbarians.
You people need to reacquaint yourselves with reality.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:14 pmTerrorists given 3 square meals, holy books, prayer rugs. . .
Comment by Happy Guy
…..they are in the Caribbean too right. Just too bad they haven’t had any due process or charged with anything or been to a trial to face their accuser. Oh well they should enjoy their vacation.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:14 pmRobert,
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:17 pm“Is name calling really necessary?”
Yes. In fact it is down right helpful when one is trying to provoke another.
“There is a difference between torture and interrogation, but you make it sound as if all interrogation is torture.”
I have not said one word about torture. Perhaps you are misunderstanding my posts.
IMHO, the treatment of the detainees at Gitmo (whether torture or not), rendition, secret CIA prison networks, the handling of Saddam’s execution, troop escalations, every seemingly bungled damn decision in this stupid f**king war, is designed to PROVOKE. I do not see reasonable interrogation methods being employed. I see provocation. Is it a coincidence that this, as I’ve said, is a very good way to perpetuate war and mayhem?
“Again, I ask: What do you see as an acceptable way of extracting information from those accused of attacking U.S. forces or plotting to attack U.S. interests?”
I do not know, but perhaps when we capture Osama we can try something new.
Yet, to the loonies on this site, we are the barbarians.
You people need to reacquaint yourselves with reality.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Disregarding due process and law is goign in the wrong direction. YOu should reaquaint yourself with our Constitution.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:17 pmSo this is where the trolls hang out. You go get em guys. Fire off on all who don’t understand “Get them there before they get us here”. Nevermind on who your actually talking about or how you’ll actually “get them” but keep firing off.
It keeps your mind off of how horribly wrong this administration has handled this conflict. How piss poor they have trampled our own constitution in the guise of preserving it. Don’t start thinkng about asking your govt. for some accountability because that would just diminish your blood lust. And we all know you do your best thinking when you don’t do any thinking at all.
Don’t even ask our govt. How many of those held at Gitmo have actually done anything against this country. Doesn’t matter that every 6 weeks or so more people are released from Gitmo with no charges against them.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:27 pmDisregarding due process and law is goign in the wrong direction. YOu should reaquaint yourself with our Constitution.
Comment by dlet
dlet, remind me again where it says we are required to treat prisoners of war as if they were U.S. citizens?
News flash — we don’t have to and we shouldn’t.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:27 pm88. Show me (and more importantly yourself) where whe have declared war.
Bigger news flash your an idiot.
There is no declaration of war. The US govt. is making up rules and making up charges and not having to show anybody what’s going on. You like that fine, live in the dark. I demand to know where my money is going and what is being done under my name as a US citizen.
Again, there is no declaration of war. War on Terror has less meaning than the War on Drugs or poverty. Terror is a tactic you jack ass. Quit feeding the fear goat.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:36 pmCynicon Implant sez:
You’re absolutely right, Cynicon…we don’t have to, and we shouldn’t, treat prisoners of war as if they were U.S. citizens.
However, we should, and we do have to treat prisoners of war as if they were prisoners of war.
The treatment of prisoners of war is spelled out very clearly in the Geneva Conventions, which your fearless leader, in his infinite wisdom, has seen fit to circumvent.
In case the Geneva Conventions aren’t enough for you, there’s other laws that apply here. You would do well to educate yourself.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:41 pmGooseEgg, Sorry if I misunderstood your point.
I agree that there are a lot of things that should have been done differently.
We should have had better plans in place before this started instead of going in half-assed for one…
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:42 pmwell little pissed on pete quit attacking your secretary first off. Second, start showing how anyone has the authority to take people off the streets of another country (add what other countries these people are taken out of) subject them to the treatement mentioned above and not charge them with any crime.
You want this to be done in your name, then keep living in your fantasy land of sexual conquests with imaginary servants.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:53 pmThere are so many trolls on this blog it’s like trying to step over dog sh*t. I think some trolls are using different names to make it seem like there is a lot of them. Same old trolls, different names.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:01 pmThe more I think about it, the more full of republodung you are pissy little petey. We are a nation of laws and that is what makes us strong. We have rights and we demand our laws to be followed by all. That includes our govt.
You have a right to say what you want. This country and the laws in which we abide allow you that. I have a right (and a duty) to point out what a narrow minded miscreant you are.
I don’t care to win an argument with you. You don’t bring anything to the table.
Now get back to banging your inflatomate.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:01 pmI think some trolls are using different names to make it seem like there is a lot of them. Same old trolls, different names.
Comment by Republicans are the fear and smear party
There you go. If you think it, it must be true–that seems to be the substance of most of the arguments here.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:13 pmdlet, remind me again where it says we are required to treat prisoners of war as if they were U.S. citizens?
News flash — we don’t have to and we shouldn’t.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
So the people they are letting go after some years are actual prisoners of war? Why are we doing that? Why would we let prisoners of war go scot free? They aren’t being treated according to the Geneva Convention, the RedCross can’t even see them, our own legisltors can’t see them and they were deemed prisoners or war solely because the president says so. And you accept this. Why do you hate the American ideals of being the one that shows how a proper nation should treat others and be a beacon of freedom and justice to those accused. These people are accused and then away. No hearings, no recourse to defend themselves. And you are okay with this. Sad.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:20 pm99. Is that worthy of an argument? Let’s see my substance is there is no declaration of war, there are no charges brought against these detainees, there is no oversight and no accountability.
Go ahead refute these. If you have an intelligent argument then I’ll listen. If you don’t you’ll be a carbon copy of pissed on pete.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:22 pm20wordsorless sez:
You’ve got some serious projection issues, 20wordsorless.
Your opponents (myself included) back up our arguments with facts…which are anathema to your ilk. All we see from your kind is lies and insults, in equal measure.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:26 pmhellinabucket sez:
You’re wasting your breath, hellinabucket. 20wordsorless is incapable of participating in an argument of any substance. Lies and insults are all he can manage, which makes him a perfect cats-paw for the neocons.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:30 pm103. I know that. I’ve said it before in these posts. My response isn’t so much for them as it is for me and any like minded person. Other’s here have some great insight and express themselves so well. I’ll tend to stay on an issue. If someone can stand on their opinion and back it up with facts then I will listen and respect them if not the opinion.
There is no argument with them. Only MA because she attempts to show her side but will fall back on talking points.
These pissants just give me a chance to express the disgust with this current administration.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:42 pmFacts are wasted on you Monkey boy.
Your mind is closed. You automatically reject opposing statements, and you reject every proof provided. That is why I for one, don’t bother providing proof anymore–it’s a total waste of time. You deny the message, you ridicule opposing ideas, and you condemn the sources. It would be great if you would apply those same methods to your own position, but that would require some integrity as well as some intellectual honesty–qualities that you are sorely lacking. After the futile exercise of providing you with facts, continuedinteraction always results in this pointless bantering anyway. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. You’re still stuck on doing the same thing–insane!
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pmYou automatically reject opposing statements, and you reject every proof provided. That is why I for one, don’t bother providing proof anymore–it’s a total waste of time.
Comment by 20wordsorless
Best laugh of the day so far.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:51 pmThese pissants just give me a chance to express the disgust with this current administration.
Comment by hellinabucket
Thanks for your honesty. I appreciate it–really I do. Keep in mind though that just because you see some opposing views doesn’t mean that we’re not frustrated with this administration too.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:57 pmLooks like a lot more the 20 words to say nothing. Well sez you. I honestly don’t remember you showing any facts. If you have some, show them. Or not and believe what you want.
better change your moniker though.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:59 pm20wordsorless sez:
Oh, this oughtta be good…
This coming from the person who believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Riiiight.
Not automatically…only after proving them wrong.
You’ve not provided any sort of proof at all for your ridiculous statements…only overblown hyperbole and strained indignation.
I call BULLSHIT. You’ve never provided anything even approaching proof, you liar, and you know it. Your arguments are nothing more than a bag of hot air, and you’re pissed at me because I showed up with a sharp needle of rational though and ruined your day.
Because the message is false…
Because they’re ridiculous…
Because they aren’t ’sources’ at all (hint: you can’t use the Bible as a ’source’ when you’re trying to argue the accuracy of the Bible…that’s what we in the trade call a circular argument).
That’s good, because I do.
Why thank you.
HA! Put up or shut up, jackass. Point out an instance….just one, in which I failed to apply the same light of reason to my own arguments that I do to my opponents’. Until then, don’t aspire to impugn my integrity, junior….you haven’t got the legs.
(Which has never actually happened…)
Yes, it does, doesn’t it. It would be nice if you could actually finish an argument you started (and be man enough to admit your errors), but I guess that’s expecting too much of you.
In this, I must agree. I consistently challenge you to back up your assertions with sound, rational argument, and you consistently disappoint me. Oh well…
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:31 pmLooks like a lot more the 20 words to say nothing. Well sez you. I honestly don’t remember you showing any facts. If you have some, show them. Or not and believe what you want.
better change your moniker though.
Comment by hellinabucket
I used to post comments under another name, but I stopped about a year ago for the reasons I stated in #105. I tried hard to have some meaningful dialogue with the regulars here. I respectfully shared my thoughts and feelings, and I provided lots of facts to back up my arguements. To be honest, I was shocked by the level of criticism and ridicule that I received . The facts that I worked hard to provide were only jammed up my ass. I learned that my presence only made me a representation of everything you guys hated, and you took it out on me and others like me. That was what everyone seemed most interested in anyway, certainly not in truly understanding my position, let alone respecting it. Then someone started posting comments with the same name I was using, so I left.
Why am I here now? Sheer boredom. It got really slow at work towards the end of 2006, and it’s still slow. I used the handle 20wordsorless with the intention of living up to my namesake. I started out ok, but I’m a sucker for giving expanations, and you know the rest of the story. Things will be picking up soon on the job, and then you’ll see less and less of me. In fact I’ve grown pretty weary of this type of interaction. It’s out of character for me to be rude and insulting, and I’m starting to feel bad about my conduct. So I might be out of here sooner than expected.
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:32 pmTripMaster,
Read my comment in #110 and perhaps you’ll have a better understanding.
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:44 pmYou are correct, I never provided facts for you. I intentionally avoided doing that. Yes my comment in #105 was directed to you, but I was actually thinking of my prior experiences here. My apologies. I took my collective experiences and aimed them at you personally. I was wrong for doing so.
20, I’m all for hearing a different view point. Hell, how else do you know what you believe in is true if you don’t subject it to opposition. Blogs aren’t the best place to carry on debates that should be structured around facts. it’s all too easy to throw insults.
I don’t speak for everyone here but never claimed I did. If you have an idea then you should beat it up, kick it around and subject it to the opposition. If it holds up (and I mean truly holds up) then you have a solid belief. If you can’t support it, or it gets shot down with stronger, more supportive ideas then you have an opinion that’s not too stable.
I’ll discuss as easily as I throw the insults. It’s all depending on what comes first. An idea with facts or an opinion with attitude.
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