McCain Claims He Knew Iraq War Would Be ‘Long And Hard And Tough,’ Contradicting Pre-War Statements
McCain Claims He Knew Iraq War Would Be ‘Long And Hard And Tough,’ Contradicting Pre-War Statements
Today on MSNBC, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) claimed that he knew the Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough,” and that he was “sorry” for those who voted for the war believing it would be “some kind of an easy task.” “Maybe they didn’t know what they were voting for,” McCain said. Watch it:
In fact, during the run-up to war in 2002 and 2003, McCain repeatedly described the prospects of war in the rosiest terms, declaring the U.S. would “win easily”:
“Because I know that as successful as I believe we will be, and I believe that the success will be fairly easy, we will still lose some American young men or women.” [CNN, 9/24/02]
“We’re not going to get into house-to-house fighting in Baghdad. We may have to take out buildings, but we’re not going to have a bloodletting of trading American bodies for Iraqi bodies.” [CNN, 9/29/02]
“But the point is that, one, we will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” [MSNBC, 1/22/03]
Full transcript:
We’ve made mistakes in Iraq, we all know that we have. The result of our withdrawal will be chaos. Do we have to do a lot better? Yes. Does the Iraqi government have to be better and the economy better? Yes. But unless you establish security, you cannot have political and economic development. That’s a lesson of history that’s — there are abundant examples. And so, I believe we need to win this. When I voted to support this war, I knew it was probably going to be long and hard and tough, and those that voted for it and thought that somehow it was going to be some kind of an easy task, then I’m sorry they were mistaken. Maybe they didn’t know what they were voting for.
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McCain makes Kerry look like the model of consistency.
January 4th, 2007 at 3:58 pmugh
January 4th, 2007 at 4:00 pmCan we have the real John McCain back? The one who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and knows how bad of an idea this all is.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:00 pmI thought McFlipFlop said he was going to commit suicide if the Dems took the house.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:03 pmSo McCranefly is a lying bag O’crap!
January 4th, 2007 at 4:04 pmI think St. John McCain is losing his marbles.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:08 pmGood point Wayne.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:08 pmMaybe someone will remind him while extending their hand
containing a fresh, but disposable, razor.
Luckily the Dems now control Congress. We can only assume that they will be voting on a resolution demanding that we bring the troops home first thing. They campaigned on Iraq as the biggest issue so it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that they will obviously be confronting the Iraq issue first. While I ain’t a Dem, I am happy that they will focus on fixing the Iraq problem FIRST and figuring out how to get out of Iraq as there FIRST ISSUE.
Only Repugs would be heartless enough to discuss petty issues like Lobby Reform and Ethic Reform when a War is going on that is killing Americans.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:09 pmSure John…can’t believe they way you suck up to just about anything in hopes of the big chair. Good luck with whatever remains of your soul.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:11 pmChicken little the sky is falling. Look McCain will say anything to cover his ass. Notice he lies just as well as Bush. Oh that Harry Potter wand isn’t working. What’s a shame is McCain was a POW and knows exactly what was going to happen but sit back and just watch and support the biggest Axis of Evil ever. Now he’s talking like he wasn’t involved and had nothing to do with it. Let’s not forget his support for the criminal torture bill as he turned coat and supported the President. All we have to do is go to the video tape and see what lies McCain is taking on today. He got caught using the religious groups now he’s trying to fool Americans. We’ve had enough of lying elected officials. Time for McCain to retired.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:12 pmRoger,
why are you posting the exact same thing in every thread. If I didn’t know better, I would say you are trying to bait people.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:13 pmliar.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:14 pmWe really need to look out for this guy in 2008. He is now showing that “straight-talk” is not his true outlook. He will do, say, or orally pleasure anthing to get elected President. And he may just get away with it…
http://www.getsomejosh.com
January 4th, 2007 at 4:14 pmMaybe they didn’t know what they were voting for.
Well, given the fact that Bush didn’t share all of the pre-war intelligence with Congress, I’d say odds are they didn’t.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:15 pmWasn’t their a poster here a while ago who said they would do all kinds of things if the Dems took the House? Like shove a flare gun up his butt or something.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:17 pm#11
Maybe because it applies to most of these threads. If TP wants to start a conversation about the new congress or congress in general, nothing is more important. If TP wants to discuss Pelosi, what could be more important then how and when she will handle the Iraq issue? When TP discuss’ how Mcain and other Repugs lied about Iraq, it is very important to discuss whether the new Dem congress lied about Iraq to get elected or whether they will actually get the troops home. It is all relavent.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:19 pmLike shove a flare gun up his butt or something.
Comment by ForTruth — January 4, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Probably Jason M. Hendler, but since I haven’t seen him post for a while, I am guessing he did.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:20 pmno!! they didn’t know what they were voteing for, BECAUSE THEY(congress) WERE LIED TO!!!!
January 4th, 2007 at 4:23 pmIf you look at Rogers earliest posts and then now, he has become more moderate. Are we having an effect on him?
January 4th, 2007 at 4:24 pmRoger,
why are you posting the exact same thing in every thread. If I didn’t know better, I would say you are trying to bait people.
Comment by Krazny
Frankly K, I noticed Rx2 having a much more ‘balanced’ approach to his comments and POV. I have read some of his past posts and they were a little harsh towards progs. Now Rx2’s posts seem to be a little more informative - rather than shrill. I think that shows we all can learn a little from each other - regardless of political affiliation.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pmLike his compatriot, Dubya, he makes it up as he goes. Not my country.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:26 pmreality sez huh?
January 4th, 2007 at 4:27 pmChrist what an idiot McCain has become
Thank you for posting McCain’s contradictory statements from the past. If only this kind of reporting were MSM where the zombies can see it.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:30 pmTom,
I still enjoy being “shrill” but this issue is incredibly important and it floors me that the progs are so excited to have the pwoer again, they are cool with looking the other way when it comes to Iraq. I simply don’t understand. This was the major issue for the last 2+ years for the Dems. They get elected on the Iraq issue and they now come to power and say they are doing a “100 hour” blitz to fix issues like minimum wage, ethics reform, and lobby reform? Where the F is Iraq on this list? Most the country hates this war and most want our troops home. Most voted for the Dems because of this. Now these losers come to power and shrug off the most important issue of our time? This blog should be on fire. I expected everyone here to be asking for Pelosi’s head if she didn’t address Iraq first. This is all you folks talked about for the last 1+ years. How you can shrug it off now is scary. Is this simply all just about power and politcs to you?
January 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pmThe flare gun - it was brain dead troll Gary Ruppert on Scooter Libby’s indictment or anyone else in Plamegate. March 2006. And yes I think he did.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pmI would say you are trying to bait people.
Comment by Krazny —
Would you consider R2 to be a master baiter?
January 4th, 2007 at 4:36 pmThanks Terry,
I knew someone was out there in the hospital with a “flared up” rectum.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:37 pmUnmitigated lying has become simply part of the landscape. It’s a repulsive situation.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:38 pmRoger hasn’t moderated, he’s posting strawdude after strawdude to get a rise.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:41 pmThe dems have been in power, let’s see. 1 day and counting.
And he’s all up the gunnells about they haven’t ended the war
Ruck you Foger2
#24 - “This is all you folks talked about for the last 1+ years. How you can shrug it off now is scary. Is this simply all just about power and politcs to you? ” - Comment by Roger_Roger — January 4, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
Naw, that’s the Republican way of doing things! Remember the Contract on America and how the top items took longer then three seconds to pass?
How many Reps did you hear calling for the Speakers head when they didn’t pass the entire Contract on america in three seconds flat? Hmm?!?!?
Iraq is a screw up of Presidential proportions, and it’s going to take longer than three seconds to address. In fact, it’s going to take true bipartisan support to fix! How fast do you see the Reps & Dems getting along to fix the screw-up that Pres. Bush gave us in Iraq? Screw-ups of that size take more than “Bring them home!” as a solution. Or do you want to see even more soldiers die as they begins to pack up, is that what you want?
I can see why you’re upset, but when you demand a solution in three seconds for a mistake that’s been going on for three-plus years, you’re being beyond unrealistic. You’re being Vice-Presidential! ;-)
Oh, by the way, happy new year all!
January 4th, 2007 at 4:43 pmMcCain = turd (a.k.a. LYING PIECE OF SH*T)
January 4th, 2007 at 4:44 pmHow you can shrug it off now is scary. Is this simply all just about power and politcs to you?
Comment by Roger_Roger
Not to me, sir but I am not a politician. I agree with you about Iraq being our number 1 priority. Why dems don’t laser focus on that issue is confusing to me. I will say that they have been in power about 6-7 hours and I would hope we would allow them time to ’settle in’. And I’m not so sure the topic was shrugged off. Please remember that while the repubs were in power, dems were constantly and consistently ignored, rebuffed, and minimized by the likes Hastert, Frist, Santorum, etc.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:46 pm#29,
I am simply calling a spade a spade. It isn’t that they haven’t done enough in 1 day, it is the fact that they have announced what they are going to be working on first and Iraq isn’t even on the list. Doesn’t that strike you as “off” seeing as though they were elected on the Iraq issue and Americans are dying because of this issue?
January 4th, 2007 at 4:47 pmWould you consider R2 to be a master baiter?
Comment by RUCerious
After years and years of practice, gallons of lotion and crates of tissues he has finally achieved every pillow biters dream.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:47 pmWould you consider R2 to be a master baiter?
Comment by RUCerious
And we have today’s winner…. Good job!
January 4th, 2007 at 4:48 pmDem Soldier I completely agree it won’t take 3 seconds but for the Iraq issue to not even be on there “things to do first” list once in power is shameful. How can you not agree? I can even see Iraq is a mess. Lobby Reform and Ethic reform can wait. They aren’t killing people after-all!!!
January 4th, 2007 at 4:49 pmI have no comment concerning master baiting. Heheh hehehe hehehe hehehehe
January 4th, 2007 at 4:51 pmNow Roger hates black people too. Jeez.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:52 pmRoger, I don’t recall you ever even mentioning, much less being so adamant, about the issue of congress discussing the war in Iraq. What happened? Is this kind of like how Repubs are now suddenly interested in “minority rights?”
January 4th, 2007 at 4:53 pmGallons of lotion, crates of tissues, ew.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:53 pmMcCain lies more and more to cover up all of his previous lies. I didn’t think it was possible for him to lose more credibility than he has, since he has already lost it all, but he has managed to pull it off.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:53 pmReform and Ethic reform can wait. They aren’t killing people after-all!!!
Comment by Roger_Roger
Tell that to the sweat shop workers in the Marianas.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:54 pmMcCain was wrong then and he is wrong now. Saying “we’re not going to get into house-to-house fighting in Baghdad” could not have been more wrong. House-to-house fighting, especially in Sadr City, is the primary purpose for the “surge” he so strongly supports today.
Mr. “Straight Talk Express” isn’t talking so straight; not then and not now.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:55 pmRoger: “I am simply calling a spade a spade.”
I’m going to call a cracker a cracker. Roger, you are a monumental hypocrite.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:55 pmIt’s interesting to me, when reading comments by Roger_Roger and others of his ilk, that the basis of his statements is that he’s looking forward to seeing how the new congress will address the problems of Iraq. Of course, it’s the Repubs who have dug us deep into this quagmire and who refuse to make any changes because that would be admitting defeat. There was no plan for post-invasion Iraq; there has been no real strategy from Day 1, and Bush claims to “listen to his generals” or “listen to the troops on the ground” until those folks say something out of line with his current, pig-headed mindset. In a nutshell, Roger_Roger and the rest are waiting for the Dems — who swept into power through a huge groundswell of support — to take any action regarding Iraq so the weak-kneed Republicans can point fingers and claim Iraq is somehow the Dems fault and theirs to clean up. Typical Republican finger pointing. Well, we got them out of Reagan’s record deficits — at least we’ll do our best to get them out of their current debacle.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:55 pmThis is going to be a new test for the media. Their script is that McCaine is a “straight talker,” but google on “McCaine” and “flip-flop” and your computer starts to smoke.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:57 pmshrill –adjective
1. high-pitched and piercing in sound quality: a shrill cry.
2. producing such a sound.
shill –noun
2. a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.
which is it, rrooggeerr ? …
January 4th, 2007 at 4:57 pmi say it’s S H I L L … get it straight…
“Maybe they didn’t know what they were voting for,†McCain said.
Evidently, neither did McCain.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:59 pm#39,
Oh I aint interested in minority rights. Hell, give them the same rights everyone has and call it good. Iraq is THE issue of our time. It has been for the many years now. It isn’t that Iraq is all of a sudden something I am more interested in. Rather it interests me that you, the Dem base don’t seem to mind that your leaders are working on petty issues while your country men/women die in a war you find illegal. That is the big story. The dem base simply cares about regaining power and Iraq was a phantom issue that the Dems actually didn’t care about. Politics as usual. The repugs do the exact same thing and it is sad.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:01 pm#45,
It isn’t that I am saying Iraq is the Dems fault, I am simply stunned that the Dems ran on the Iraq issue and now back away from doing anything about it. This isn’t a hard issue either. If they truly want to end the war and bring the troops home, it is simple. You cut the funding for Iraq and it brings the troops home ASAP. Currently, you Dem leaders are the ones voting YES to the funding that drives this war. Shocking since these are the people that publicly act like they are against this war.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:06 pmWhat a pitiful, failed, shell of a man Saddam McLaden has become.
Oops! I meant ‘John McCain”.
Funny how those typos just crop up, isn’t it…
January 4th, 2007 at 5:06 pmOh I aint interested in minority rights. Hell, give them the same rights everyone has and call it good.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Wow. Rogerx2 openly endorses gay marriage. Dem controlled House and Senate and now this. I better go to sleep before Hendler comes here saying Global Climate Change is real.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:06 pmRoger_Roger, ask yourself a simple question:
IF they were to address Iraq the very first thing, and ignore everything else, up to and including the spending bills that the Reps ignored last year, how long do you think it’ll take to straighten the mess out?
One minute?
One hour?
One day?
One week?
One month?
One year?
All during that time, nothing else is ever done at all. Federal government comes to a screeching halt and all the federal employees don’t get paid. Not a single one. Now the legislaters have to get their own water and answer their own phones and do all the erands they had other people do.
All during this time, ethics are still left hanging in the wind.
All during this time, lobbyists still wrap their fingers around the throats of the congress.
All during this time, nothing else is accomplished except bickering about the war in Iraq that has been going on for three-plus years with no complaints from you except for the past few months, and just about every post you made today.
You didn’t seem very upset over our soldiers dying in 2004, but you sure seem upset now. Why the sudden desire to hold Dems accountable when you didn’t give one single crap about the Reps?
Now, look at it this way: 100 hours to get the small stuff out of the way while you talk with the minority party to get the votes on your side when you DO concentrate on Iraq on the 101st hour. Now, you’ve got the people you know who are going to support you, and you don’t have to wrangle votes and take forever.
Now, just suppose, that on the 102nd hour, you’ve got the legislation put together for addressing Iraq-mire. Now you’ve got the debates, and on the 110th hour, you close the talking and you get people to vote.
Compare months of bickering with nothing else being done to getting small stuff done then hitting your first major hurdle in 110 hours.
Why do you seem so eager to hit the Dem majority over the head when you were complacent over the Rep majority same-old-same-old for the past 3-plus years?
January 4th, 2007 at 5:06 pmdid anyone, particularly you rrooggeerr, even hear pelosi’s speech today?
in part:
“The election of 2006 was a call to change — not merely to change the control of Congress, but for a new direction for our country. Nowhere were the American people more clear about the need for a new direction than in the war in Iraq.
“The American people rejected an open-ended obligation to a war without end. Shortly, President Bush will address the nation on the subject of Iraq. It is the responsibility of the president to articulate a new plan for Iraq that makes it clear to the Iraqis that they must defend their own streets and their own security, a plan that promotes stability in the region, and a plan that allows us to responsibly redeploy our troops.
“Let us work together to be the Congress that rebuilds our military to meet the national security challenges of the 21st century.
“Let us be the Congress that strongly honors our responsibility to protect the American people from terrorism.
“Let us be the Congress that never forgets our commitment to our veterans and our first responders, always honoring them as the heroes that they are.
http://sfgate.com/ cgi-bin/ article.cgi?f=/ c/ a/ 2007/ 01/ 04/ BAG5ANCTQ27.DTL
she talked about the FIRST 100 HOURS before the election… these are things that have been needlessly put off for years by the repugs…
January 4th, 2007 at 5:07 pmshe has not and will not forget about iraq… stoopid shill…
Roger,
Funny how you morons defended the GOP when their most important issues were gay marriage, and flag burning. Are you writing and calling your elected officials, D or R and demanding something be done about Iraq? Doubt it, you would rather just be a troll and say “Dem’s aren’t doing a thing about the biggest issue of our time”. Playing the typical GOP blame game. Your GOP spent 6 years getting us into this huge mess in Iraq, as well as the sucky economy here, and don’t quote me some ~4% unemployment without also realizing those numbers do not include numbers of people no longer eligble, wages are down, savings are down, but coproate profits are at an all time high.
So keep playing the blame game, when YOU have only YOURSELF to blame for Iraq.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:20 pm#50: The Dems will address the Iraq quagmire. Unfortunately, the moronic Republican leaders have created a lot of other awful issues they must also deal with. The Dems can’t fix all your screw-ups at once — it took you guys a lot longer than one day to destroy the economy, our internation reputation, and the U.S. Constitution.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:24 pmI think the Democrats have a couple of choices; One, give the GOP the White House with whomever the GOP nominates and let them accept full blame for the administration of the final chapters of the debacle, thus ensuring future Democratic Presidencies OR, Two, try to get someone elected and hand them the family car after Toonces has driven off the cliff and then get blamed because they didn’t have a plan for victory. Seems like a no brainer to me. They made the mess and let Toonces drive, make them clean it up, unless of course the GOP nominee is Richard Cheney.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:33 pmAw, I miss Toonces…
January 4th, 2007 at 5:37 pmToonces the driving cat. Loved that skit.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:37 pm#55
The difference is that Repugs felt/feel that being in Iraq is a good thing, thus it wasn’t an issue. Now if you feel that the war is illegal and we shouldn’t be there, it becomes the #1 issue as it has to be since people are dying in something you feel is “wrong”. There is no other “wrong” that trumps a wrong that causes death. Now if you don’t think Iraq is wrong, then it isn’t an issue. My point is that this crowd (the dem base) has consistently said that the war is wrong, thus it has to be the #1 issue. It is a shocker that your leaders don’t see it that way.
As to how long I would wait? If I wanted the war to end and I was pelosi, it would start its death today. Simply make a votes that ends all funding for the war. Pass the vote and the war is dead within weeks. Simple and then you can move on to more petty issues.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:38 pmIs boot-licking a right-wing fetish?
January 4th, 2007 at 5:41 pm[…] I used to like John McCain. He used to be the Republican I was most likely to vote for. That is, until he made a 180 on his opinions of the extreme Christian right by embracing Jerry Falwell last year. Now, there’s another nail in his coffin. Today, on MSNBC, Senator McCain said the following about the Iraq war: “When I voted to support this war, I knew it was probably going to be long and hard and tough, and those that voted for it and thought that somehow it was going to be some kind of an easy task, then I’m sorry they were mistaken. Maybe they didn’t know what they were voting for.” [1] Hmm. Maybe they didn’t. After all, there is no shortage of testimony from notable leaders explaining how easy our adventure in Iraq was going to be. Unfortunately for McCain, however, he was one of them: “‘Because I know that as successful as I believe we will be, and I believe that the success will be fairly easy, we will still lose some American young men or women.’ [CNN, 9/24/02] ‘We’re not going to get into house-to-house fighting in Baghdad. We may have to take out buildings, but we’re not going to have a bloodletting of trading American bodies for Iraqi bodies.’ [CNN, 9/29/02]” [1] [1] http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/04/mccain-iraq-easy/ […]
January 4th, 2007 at 5:44 pmHe’s toast.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:47 pmHe has flip-flopped so many times, he is like a fish on the pier, and just as brainless.
#60 - Roger_Roger,
I think the issue is your statement “My point is that this crowd (the dem base) has consistently said that the war is wrong, thus it has to be the #1 issue.”
I agree that this is something that should be a major issue. I’m assuming that Speaker Pelosi didn’t include the Iraq war in the “First 100 hour Agenda” because she know’s it’s going to take more than 100 hours to address.
Rather than try to fix Iraq-mire in 100 hours and fail, I’m thinking Speaker Pelosi will give Iraq-mire the time it needs by all representatives and deliberations with the (intractable) White House.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:47 pmEVERY single administration official said the war would be long and tough. Progs hate to admit such statements were made. McCain was correct about the “war”…. but I don’t think anybody could have known the level of terror that we have seen in the aftermath……unless we pulled a Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
A question for Progs….How about that Cindy Sheehan interrupting one of the architects of the Dem Victory, Rahm Emmanuel? What barn did that boorish pig grow up in? I’m curious which party “never-happy progs” will support when Dems don’t go as far to the Left as you would like?
January 4th, 2007 at 5:48 pmmccain wishes to say as little as possible because he and leiberman in concert with the rest of the neo-conservatives(including the white house) plan to link up with israel in a full scale assault in lebanon and syria. they think no one can figure this out (the american people are stupid, right?). but then why play all the cards in your hand now. a full blown and most likely world war is in offing if he or leiberman attain the white house. but this must not happen.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:52 pmRogerX2 in post 60 proves that he is only using the war in Iraq issue to try to bloody our noses.
Now if you feel that the war is illegal
this crowd (the dem base)
your leaders
If I wanted the war to end
RogerX2 just wants to call Speaker Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats “petty” and irresponsible. Sour grapes make great whine!
January 4th, 2007 at 5:53 pmEVERY single administration official said the war would be long and tough.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Hey Hagette, how’s it going? A little tense? Good.
Um, can you put up a link or two showing those quotes? Thanks, babe.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:54 pmAh, a mighty wind blows through TP land!
January 4th, 2007 at 5:55 pmEVERY single administration official said the war would be long and tough.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Uh, after we were well into it they all started saying this.
Ok I primed the pump. Others please chime in on how this thing was supposed to be when the Admin wanted to sell the idea to the people.
January 4th, 2007 at 5:56 pmTHAT’S an outright lie MA…
(links forthcoming)
January 4th, 2007 at 5:57 pm“It could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.”
Donald Rumsfeld, 2-7-03
“My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.”
Dick Cheney, 3-16-03
“Iraq will not require sustained aid.”
OMB Director Mitch Daniels, 3-38-03
“I believe demolishing Hussein’s military power and liberating iraq would be a cakewalk.”
Defense Policy Board Member Ken Adelman, 2-13-02
January 4th, 2007 at 5:57 pmDemocrat Soldier
Since you are a vet (if I correctly recall), perhaps you can help me understand something. Is “aftermath” of a war still a war or an occupation or a consequence of the war?
January 4th, 2007 at 5:58 pmWhat alternative reality does MA live in? I think she knew damn well that comment would get a rash of shit.
January 4th, 2007 at 6:00 pmBluedog49,
I wanted Hagette to find those quotes itself!
**eyes rolling**
January 4th, 2007 at 6:01 pmFlip-flopper double-talker McCain simply is another common hypocrite! He certainly has zero credibility in running for President. He should save his money instead of blowing it on a fruitless campaign. Anyone who voted “yes” to give this fool the power to engage this country in a criminal, illegal war should also not be given the vote of the people to become President and that includes Hillary, Edwards, and Biden - of course Lieberman and McCain as well. Let’s be tough on these guys - if the majority of the people in this country knew it was a “bogus idea” and the rest of the world sharply “criticized our judgment” back when these idiots were voting to give a maniac power, then every one of us who was enlightened beyond these politicians who voted for it (Rep and Dem alike) deserves to be a candidate.
Let’s show these politicos who took the representation of the american people so lightly that they knuckled under and voted “yes” for this ridiculous, inhumane war that we do not feel they are competent enough to run this country. Why didn’t they do their homework before they voted?
Come on here…..it was a “no brainer” and we all knew it - Let’s make this vote “haunt and taunt” every last one of them by not supporting their candidacy. Perhaps this will send a clear signal that they need to take their vote seriously when they represent the people. At this point, the voting on bills is sheer chicanery anyway…bundling bills - you’ve got to be kidding - how ludicrous!
January 4th, 2007 at 6:01 pmYour dumbass, dear Rummy:
“It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.â€
Uh, look up, McCain’s quote:
“We will win it easily.”
Then, there was the stupid senator ???? who said no longer than 6 months AT NO COST TO THE TAXPAYER.
How big a shovel do you use to swallow so much bullsh*t?
January 4th, 2007 at 6:01 pmThe news orgs could end McCain anytime they want just by playing his own words back to him on all his interviews. Is there some moral reason I am unaware of in our society that would prevent any news organization from doing this? Isnt it fair game? Isnt it even the responsible thing to do since we are talking about peoples lives here?
January 4th, 2007 at 6:27 pmI don’t think anybody could have known
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Are you kidding? Dont you remember seeing the Bush admin being made fun of for “no one being able to envision” planes being used as weapons against buildings even though they were specifically warned of this and the military was conducting training for just such a scenario? Or like they said no one could have forseen Katrina even though they were shown on tape being warned of it days before and the people they paid to do a study years before warned of exactly the outcome we all saw in New Orleans? And all these people all over the Internet and even on TV like on the Donahue show saying that when people get invaded they fight back? What a lame lame excuse you are using to convince yourself that you were always right no matter what the position.
January 4th, 2007 at 6:36 pmDear Blue Pup - Thank you for your quotes - they seem a bit incomplete and cut but I trust you visited supposedly reliable sites.I have been searching for the quote I referenced by GWB on the day Iraq was attacked - I will keep searching and get back. Unfortunately, too many of the sites are rabidly anti-Bush and seem to concentrate on his poor grammar skills. NOBODY knew how much influence the foreign fighters would have - not even you! I am sure you recall the jubilation when Saddam was pulled from the rabbit hole….that was the thrill of it all.
But from my reading of the new majority in the Congress and here at TP, Dems will be too timid to ever defend our nation as they are afraid of not knowing the results BEFORE they happen…..
January 4th, 2007 at 6:52 pm“I am sure you recall the jubilation when Saddam was pulled from the rabbit hole….that was the thrill of it all.”
Was this thrill worth 3000 American and 200,000 Iraqi lives? Was it worth 25 thousand amputees? Was it worth a half a trillion dollars and the destruction of our “good will’ around the world? I don’t think so.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:04 pm“NOBODY knew how much influence the foreign fighters would have - not even you!”
No, the truth is that a number of people predicted this. Juan Cole and Scott Ritter to name two right off the top of my head.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:05 pmGerald - go shovel some Hoosier snow….oh, that’s right, my big car is ruining your winter. You are the perfect person to address my concluding paragraph to BluePup, “But from my reading of the new majority in the Congress and here at TP, Dems will be too timid to ever defend our nation as they are afraid of not knowing the results BEFORE they happen…..” You wimp…..
January 4th, 2007 at 7:08 pmThe DC-based mainstream think-tank Center for Strategic International Studies (CSIS) estimates that only 4 to 10 percent of Iraq’s 30,000 insurgents are “foreign fighters.” They and our own CIA and State Department have stated clearly that foreign fighters in Iraq are not a major force.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:16 pmAgain Blue Pup - Please be thankful your grandad’s generation were not in charge of Iraq. They may have said to the Iraqi population what the “occupiers” said to German insurgents after Germany srrendered.. “Attention - You have one week to turn in your weapons. Anyone seen with a gun will be shot on sight.” Sounds good to me….
January 4th, 2007 at 7:20 pmBluePup - Since when is US intelligence reliable??
January 4th, 2007 at 7:21 pmThere were no German insurgents. No American soldier was wounded or killed by an insurgent. And, US intelligence is not the problem. It is the political manipulation of intelligence which is the problem (and, incidentally, an impeachable offense.)
January 4th, 2007 at 7:26 pmJeebus….
Hagette is scared spitless…..bless her heart.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:28 pmBluedog49
You’re wasting your breath on a foul wind.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:30 pmPLC, you’re probably right, but she did seem to be acting rather polite, so I thought I’d give her the benefit of the doubt.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:33 pm“Dems will be too timid to ever defend our nation as they are afraid of not knowing the results BEFORE they happen…”
Jeez, I would have thought that all contemporary conservatives have read “The Art of War,” but maybe I’m giving them too much credit.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:35 pmBluedog49
I don’t think I go as far as to say “polite”, maybe “less rude”. Don’t think I’m telling you or even suggesting that you stop responding, though. I’m just doing my own little on-the-side commentary, I guess.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:38 pmPLC - If you’d stand down-wind from your flatulence you might be surrounded by a nicer aroma….
January 4th, 2007 at 7:38 pmGood job tonight with the MA folks, particularly Zooey, good job.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:40 pmI’m going to stand down-wind, when the Iraqis stand up-wind! Stay the curse.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:46 pmI like the smell of my own Brand Mighty A.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:48 pmEspecially after Del Taco.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:48 pmOK, four or five flatulence jokes is one or two too many for me. Out!
January 4th, 2007 at 7:54 pm“There were no German insurgents. No American soldier was wounded or killed by an insurgent.” - Comment by Bluedog
*****Really??? You’re incorrect - but I’m certain you apprecite the info. I won’t tell families of the 135 servicemen killed in 1946 that they are just on vaca….There are too many sites to name - but if you Google “German insurgents post WWII” you will see pages of references, though the majority are bloggers.
“And, US intelligence is not the problem.” - Bluedog
******I disagree. I think US intelligence capabilities are at an all time low. The Church Commission, with the approval of Mr Jimmeh, changed the requirements for informants and operatives. Both these naive pols wanted a kinder, gentler intelligence after Watergate, not realizing that SOMETIMES bad people associate with BAD people. We do not have enough Arabic speakers or International Relations majors on-board….
Funny, I always thought Bill Clinton did the best job he could with the info he had - same semi-good info……but his problem was viewing the WTC1 as a law enforcement issue. He showed lots of gum and not enough teeth…..
January 4th, 2007 at 7:54 pm“Attention - You have one week to turn in your weapons. Anyone seen with a gun will be shot on sight.†Sounds good to me….
makes a lot more sense than saying, “you, in the army, you’re all fired…
January 4th, 2007 at 7:56 pmnow git! … and take your weapons with you”…
Truth,
TMI.
Oy.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:57 pmMaybe they didn’t know what they were voting for.
Damn right, they didn’t know. And the reason why they didn’t know is because of warmongers like you, Mr. McCain, who chose mislead, deceive, and hoodwink in order to sell the invasion of Iraq, instead of giving your constituents some of that “straight talk” you are supposedly so famous for and that the American people so sorely needed. And deserved.
Now you tell us you always knew the war would be long and hard. How did you think people would understand your “we’re not going to get into house-to-house fighting in Baghdad.”? Weren’t you saying the war would be faily easy to win? It seems to me you have made a 180 degree turn. Or, as your Dear (mis)Leader would put it: You flip-flopped.
You ought to know better than to send young people to kill and die in a war of choice that shouldn’t have been. You were there once. Have you forgotten?
January 4th, 2007 at 8:28 pmwhat a twat
January 4th, 2007 at 8:37 pmTwat. Where did that word come from?
January 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pmThere are too many sites to name - but if you Google “German insurgents post WWII†you will see pages of references, though the majority are bloggers.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 4, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
And there is a good reason why that is so, you ignorant slut.
The reason is that no self-respecting historian would ever endorse the idea that Germany’s post-WWII Werewolves were anything remotely similar to what we are seeing now in Iraq. Not a single respected historian backs up the notion that the Werewolves mounted an effective resistance after the end of the war.
Those bloggers you mention are disinformed, ignorant fools, prone to wishful thinking and self-delusion -much like yourself. You have been debunked over, and over again. It is time you let go of this childish fantasy of yours.
Better check the wikipedia (I am providing the link -once more- for the benefit to others not you, since you are impervious to facts), or Media Matters for a good explanation on why this is bunkum.
January 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm*****Really??? You’re incorrect - but I’m certain you apprecite the info. I won’t tell families of the 135 servicemen killed in 1946 that they are just on vaca….There are too many sites to name - but if you Google “German insurgents post WWII†you will see pages of references, though the majority are bloggers. Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 4, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
Ann, didn’t you learn your lesson from the last time you didn’t know this answer? Is your middle name duh? You really believe conservative bloggers post facts? Self reflection should quickly inform you of the folly of this reliance.
January 4th, 2007 at 8:53 pmDems will be too timid to ever defend our nation as they are afraid of not knowing the results BEFORE they happen…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 4, 2007 @ 6:52 pm
Maybe you can enlighten us by telling us what party was in power during WWII and the Korean conflict.
January 4th, 2007 at 9:42 pmJoeFriday - The Dems were in power - and they were the “old-style” Dems. They were actually patriotic and loved this country. They HATED Communism. Those were the years before the Progressive Dems of America infiltrated the Party. I don’t think there has been a decent defense minded Dem since JFK. FYI, he wouldn’t recognize the Dem Party today - he would probably have to wrestle his brother over tax cuts AND defense.
January 4th, 2007 at 10:06 pmThose were the years before the Progressive Dems of America infiltrated the Party.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 4, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
“Infiltrated the Party”? More historical idiocy from Mitey Coprolite. Talk about a paranoid, foolish ass.
Did you get this information from the same place you got this other gem?
Thank goodness our friends and allies did not desert us during our Civil War!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 3, 2006 @ 3:22 pm
Yes, please, continue to dazzle us with your profound knowledge of historical facts…
January 4th, 2007 at 11:13 pmGrgrrrrr - Please relay the delight of contemporary Progs re:
a.) FDR’s all out response to Hitler and Tojo
b.) The internment of Japanese Americans
c.) The dropping of nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
d.) The prosecution and execution of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
e.) The Korean War escalation by President Truman
f.) The confrontation of JFK and Kruschev
g.) The Bay of Pigs
h.) The Cuban Missile crisis
i.) the insertion of of advisors in Viet Nam by JFK
j.) the federal tax cuts and promotion of business by JFK
As for “this other gem”: you may enjoy the following by a fave philosopher of the Left. In 1861, Karl Marx notes the split in England to support the North or the South. (Several prominent radicals sought Englands entrance into a full-scale war with the US as a real blow to the most capitalized society, the US.) Manufacturers seeking raw materials did indeed circumvent the blockades imposed by the North.
http://www.marxists.org/ archive/ marx/ works/ 1861/ 12/ 25.html.
And from Wikipedia, Although the colony of Canada was officially neutral, “Many Canadian-born men are believed to have fought in the Civil War. There are no exact figures, but estimates have ranged from 40,000 to 100,000 men, although the late Yale historian, Robin Winks, has shown that there is no basis to these estimates. But it is very certain that several thousand definitely did serve in the war. The largest group were those who had immigrated to the United States sometime before the conflict and had been in the United States for some time. A significant number of Canadians seeking employment and adventure did join the conflict from Canada, mostly enlisting with the Northern side.”
night……
January 5th, 2007 at 12:34 amon olberman…
“Senator John McCain - both of ‘em - today’s WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD”
for these statements… heh
pretty bad when you beat out olielly…
January 5th, 2007 at 12:54 amMitey Coprolite,
Your post is as long as it is irrelevant. Did you think I wasn’t aware that European countries were itching to help one side against the other?
Your little list of events “progs” are supposedly delighted about, has both good and bad. Or maybe in your deluded mind The Bay of Pigs was a spectacularly successful invasion.
Your explanation that the some defied the blockades imposed by the North puts to rest your contention that those friends and allies did not abandon “us” -unless, that is, you are rooting for the Confederacy. At any rate, all European nations officially declared their neutrality in the conflict -which would mean they stood by the Union. You have to pick a side.
As for your Canadian factor, please note Canada was officially neutral, while Canadians enlisted to fight on both sides. Again, you have to pick a side if you are to say that those friends and allies did not desert “us”. There was no “us” at the time; but an “us” vs “them”.
Finally, and true to form, your link is broken. It leads to a “The file you are looking for is not here” page. You should double-check your links and your “facts” before you post more nonsense.
January 5th, 2007 at 1:28 amOnly Repugs would be heartless enough to discuss petty issues like Lobby Reform and Ethic Reform when a War is going on that is killing Americans. -Comment by Roger_Roger
ah here’s Roger again, waging a one man war of stupidity on multiple fronts. Roger, your preznit ignores LAWS for christsakes, do you really think a mere resolution is going to have any effect on his behaviour? come on, get realistic, if your trolling, at least come up with a better line. and we can see the saracasm in your voice… of COURSE rethugs spend valuable congressional time when american soldiers are dying only on important things like flag burning, gay marriage, tax breaks for millionaires, and making blatantly unconsitutional laws solely for the purpose of keeping a total brain dead vegetable fed and watered against the wishes of her husband and legal guardian. while our boys are dying because they have to buy thier own bulletproof vests, your heroes were busy protecting us from homosexuals who wanted to be husbands, and from straight husbands whose healthcare decisions for thier wives didnt fit with the “sanctity of marriage” crowds usual agenda of “white life, at any cost”.
January 5th, 2007 at 6:35 am. If they truly want to end the war and bring the troops home, it is simple. You cut the funding for Iraq and it brings the troops home ASAP. -rodger
1) Congress has no power to control the military’s actions, only the funding.
2) Now Rodger, use what little bit of a homo sapien intellect you have to ask yourself one question: How do you think that that the mean, unethical, “do anything to win” swiftboat/purpleheart band-aid crowd that you support is going to react if the dems try to cut funding for the war? Do you think they wouldnt immediately unleash a viscious barrage of attacks along the lines of “Dems hate our troops” and “Dems are taking body armor and bullets away from our troops” and similar viscious lies? Heck, the highlight of your pathethic Rethugs national convention was some democratic Klansman turned republican screaming an incoherent list various weapons systems Kerry had “voted to eliminate” simply becase he was one of many senators trying to balance a budget one year.
The way I see it, the democrats would rather focus on making sure your scumbag senators can’t sell thier votes to the highest bidder than subject themselves to more partisan warfare by trying to stop the war by cutting funding. I don’t blame them. The way they probably see it, they are giving Bush enough rope to hang himself with. You guys LOVE to blame other people for problems you’ve created.. well.. it looks like the dems are letting you have your way, so you won’t be able to blame them when this whole mess devolves into the total clusterfu3k it will inevitably be.
Oh, and Mighty Hermaphrodite, your comparison between Nazi Germany and Iraq is an assanine and illogical one. About the only similarity between Nazi Germany and Saddam Hussiens Iraq is that Bush family cronies armed both of them. Germany was launching a world war and had a powerful military machine. Saddam was neutered, kneecapped, and contained. One of the only two countries Saddam ever invaded was done so with our blessing and logisitcal assistance. Post WWII Nazi germany was not a country with a long history of sectarian strife and religious fundamentalism. The dissimilarities go on and on, but you idiots love to compare apples and oranges and tell us how you have the magic recipe to make orange juice out of apples.
January 5th, 2007 at 7:03 amWe do not have enough Arabic speakers or International Relations majors on-board….
Comment by Mighty Hypocrite
Do you perhaps mean not enough Arabic speakers on board in the various US intelligence agencies, or in the US Embassy in Bagdhad, where only 6 out of of 1000 employees are fluent in the language?
January 5th, 2007 at 9:00 amThe Iraq War has now lasted longer than the US involvement in WWII, yet the Bush administration still hasn’t gotten around to training more intelligence agents and diplomats to be competent in Arabic. By considerable contrast, the FDR administration set up intensive Japanese-language schools–mostly within military facilities–shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Although Japanese is a difficult language and, like Arabic, uses a different writing system, the best of the students became not only fluent but also good enough to crack military codes within a few years.
Your beloved preznit is a bungler in almost every respect possible.
everybody is SO WORRIED about Iraq..
look guys, The Project for a New American Century, Council on Foreign Relations, and KBR, have everything well in hand..
This is all why we created the Mujahadeen (talliban) in the 80’s!!
Don’t Worry, we have the greatest generation of War-Profiteers, Contractors, and embezzlers the world has ever seen..
Carlyle overcharged the taxpayer..yet again..
January 5th, 2007 at 9:02 amThis is a bit off-thread, but I received a spam today, whose IP number traces back to Halliburton. I would think Halliburton has been earning enough $$ by overbilling the US government–and taxpayers–for just about everything that they wouldn’t need the money from spamming.
January 5th, 2007 at 9:12 am[…] McCain: is he lying, or does he have Iraq-zheimer’s disease? Jump to Comments [crossposted at dailykos] St. John McCain, the little old general and resident maverick turnedbutt-kissing winger-for-president, told a little whopper, no, a BIG WHOPPER yesteday. In fact, it was so much of a whopper that he might want to get somebody to do a mental status exam on him. After all, when these elderly guys run for president, well…you know… Anyway, here is the lie, from ThinkProgress: Today on MSNBC, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) claimed that he knew the Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough,†and that he was “sorry†for those who voted for the war believing it would be “some kind of an easy task.†“Maybe they didn’t know what they were voting for,” McCain said. […]
January 5th, 2007 at 2:41 pmSee the superb VanityFair interview/article by a writer travelling with McCain showing what a zori (what the Japanese called flip flops when I was there in ‘55) McCain really is. This is just more whipped cream icing melting down where someone left the cake out in the rain. Shades of McCain Park. http://www.vanityfair.com/ politics/ features/ 2007/ 02/ mccain200702
January 5th, 2007 at 3:55 pmWe have been in a war against terrorism weather we like it or not for at least the last 20 years or longer. And guess what. Like Korea you can appease a terrorist by giving it the gun to kill you and get it to be an ally in the Demoncrat war against America. But this only last for a short while. we will still be in the war against terrorism for the next 100 years.
Remember the “In for the long haul” speech after 911?
We knew this up front and said as much.
The only surprise is how quick the Demoncrats lost their bearing and decided to take the “work with the terrorist for greatest damage to the country the media will spin this into what will work as a Demoncrat boondoggle” approach.
January 6th, 2007 at 11:04 am” terrorism weather ”
comment by joesillogic
What is “terrorism weather”? Thunderstorms, tornadoes, or Katrina-class hurricanes perhaps?
January 6th, 2007 at 6:02 pmDean is just constantly contradiciting himself to try to get votes for himself in ‘08.
January 8th, 2007 at 6:09 pmHe’s like Bush and Frist and others who never said, “stay the course” or they didn’t care about Osama where abouts or leeves breaking.
[…] Today on MSNBC, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) defended his statement from Oct. 2002 when he claimed, “I believe that the success [in Iraq] will be fairly easy.” McCain told Tim Russert, “It was easy, it was easy. I said the military operation would be easy.” Watch it. var flvmccaineasy3202409569 = new SWFObject(’/wp-content/plugins/flvplayer.swf?file=http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/flv/2007/01/mccaineasy.320.240.flv&autoStart=false’, ‘em-flvmccaineasy3202409569′, ‘320′, ‘260′, ‘6′, ‘#ffffff’); flvmccaineasy3202409569.addParam(’quality’, ‘high’); flvmccaineasy3202409569.addParam(’wmode’, ‘transparent’); flvmccaineasy3202409569.write(’flvmccaineasy3202409569′); […]
January 10th, 2007 at 3:41 pmPlease pay attention the construction of your sentences, as well as the choices that you make grammatically if you want anyone to believe that you have a credible opinion. Many of your arguments are also presented as mere rants, having little or no base for your assumptions.
Most of your posts are painful to read, and as a consequence, I will most likely never read from this page again. I tell you this because it is obviously important to most of you as you’ve spend quite a bit of time discussing it. If it is indeed significant then I can not see why you wouldn’t spend more time revising your posts before you send them.
Roger_Roger’s first comment would be a fine example of my aforementioned accusation pertaining to the lack of information to back wildly made assumptions:
Luckily the Dems now control Congress. We can only assume that they will be voting on a resolution demanding that we bring the troops home first thing. They campaigned on Iraq as the biggest issue so it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that they will obviously be confronting the Iraq issue first. While I ain’t a Dem, I am happy that they will focus on fixing the Iraq problem FIRST and figuring out how to get out of Iraq as there FIRST ISSUE.
Only Repugs would be heartless enough to discuss petty issues like Lobby Reform and Ethic Reform when a War is going on that is killing Americans.
The first thing on the agenda for the new “Dems” congress however has been that exact petty issue of “Lobby Reform” and “Ethic Reform”.
January 10th, 2007 at 10:16 pmTo appropriately back my claim, I am citing the San Francisco Chronicle: (01-09) 04:00 PST Washington — Senate Democrats plan to push through as their first piece of legislation a broad package of ethics reforms that seek to reduce the influence of lobbyists and signal a clean break with the previous Congress, which was plagued by corruption scandals.
http://www.sfgate.com/ cgi-bin/ article.cgi?f=/ c/ a/ 2007/ 01/ 09/ MNGBCNF3EL1.DTL&feed=rss.news
January 10th, 2007 at 10:28 pm[…] As the Carpetbagger Report noted, today on MSNBC, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) defended his statement from Oct. 2002 when he claimed, “I believe that the success [in Iraq] will be fairly easy.†McCain told Tim Russert, “It was easy, it was easy. I said the military operation would be easy.†Watch it: […]
January 11th, 2007 at 1:17 pmDear Senator McCain,
The war in Iraq will probably never blow over any time soon. In probability, many more young soldiers will have to die in order to protect the lives of our families around the world. Soldiers take an oath to serve their country and the war is the ultimate challange to that oath. I feel strongly about staying in the fight. I commend you, Our President and above all the courage of our soldiers in the battlefeild. May God look kindly upon our efforts to bring all the terrorists to their knees.
Thank you Senator,
James Lee Merkousko
February 24th, 2007 at 7:29 am[…] Today, on MSNBC, Senator McCain said the following about the Iraq war: “When I voted to support this war, I knew it was probably going to be long and hard and tough, and those that voted for it and thought that somehow it was going to be some kind of an easy task, then I’m sorry they were mistaken. Maybe they didn’t know what they were voting for.” [1] […]
April 11th, 2007 at 6:42 am[…] having led people to believe that winning in Iraq would be easy, despite having repeatedly said the same thing himself before the war. The press has barely taken note of the […]
March 19th, 2008 at 11:36 am[…] as a critical test of the Baghdad government’s ability to control its own country.www.guardian.co.ukMcCain Lies About His Pre-War PositionMcCain on Iraq: "The point is that, one, we will win this conflict. We will win it easily.??? […]
March 27th, 2008 at 3:48 am[…] Point is: "McCain makes Kerry look like the model of consistency". Watch it: Think Progress ? Blog Archive ? McCain Claims He Knew Iraq War Would Be ?Long And Hard And Tough,? C… __________________ AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE–BECAUSE OF OUR […]
April 1st, 2008 at 9:17 pm