Comments on: White House visitor records closed to the public. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:23:51 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: chimpeach http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1397978 chimpeach Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:26:11 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1397978 #171 paul <em>I like your hypothetical, I think your idea is good, but I started thinking. Would it limit the ability of the President to conduct confidential business? I can’t think of a great example, but I would guess there are dealings (legitimate, not criminal or unethical) that a President (R or D) would have that could only be accomplished with confidentiality. And free access to the logs would jeopardize the confidentiality.</em> Sorry for the delay. I was offline for a while. In the situation you describe, I think it's unlikely that there might be a personal visit from anyone to the White House that had to be kept secret for purposes of national security. Anyone whose identity needs to be kept secret from the entire country would have a difficult time being snuck into and out of the White House without anyone being able to see them. I can imagine a scenario where someone is flown in, taken off the plane inside a closed hangar, gotten into a limo with darkened windows, and then exits the limo and enters the White House with a black shroud over his or her head. But, if it's that big a secret, all of the White House staff needs to be dismissed and off the premises and nobody without adequate security clearance could remain. And then, why go to all that trouble when the president or his representative could probably meet the mystery person somewhere at a neutral site, perhaps a small island far away from the mainland. Finally, how many such meetings might take place that couldn't be dealt with in the records by a simple redaction or two? I have to come to the conclusion that the only reason for the hiding of these records is to avoid prosecution. Clinton could have used the same excuse to withhold records and he didn't. This is Bush and Cheney saying, "Yeah, we broke the law, but we're not going to let you see the evidence." #171 paul

I like your hypothetical, I think your idea is good, but I started thinking. Would it limit the ability of the President to conduct confidential business? I can’t think of a great example, but I would guess there are dealings (legitimate, not criminal or unethical) that a President (R or D) would have that could only be accomplished with confidentiality. And free access to the logs would jeopardize the confidentiality.

Sorry for the delay. I was offline for a while. In the situation you describe, I think it’s unlikely that there might be a personal visit from anyone to the White House that had to be kept secret for purposes of national security. Anyone whose identity needs to be kept secret from the entire country would have a difficult time being snuck into and out of the White House without anyone being able to see them.

I can imagine a scenario where someone is flown in, taken off the plane inside a closed hangar, gotten into a limo with darkened windows, and then exits the limo and enters the White House with a black shroud over his or her head. But, if it’s that big a secret, all of the White House staff needs to be dismissed and off the premises and nobody without adequate security clearance could remain. And then, why go to all that trouble when the president or his representative could probably meet the mystery person somewhere at a neutral site, perhaps a small island far away from the mainland.

Finally, how many such meetings might take place that couldn’t be dealt with in the records by a simple redaction or two? I have to come to the conclusion that the only reason for the hiding of these records is to avoid prosecution. Clinton could have used the same excuse to withhold records and he didn’t. This is Bush and Cheney saying, “Yeah, we broke the law, but we’re not going to let you see the evidence.”

]]> By: JosephW http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1397503 JosephW Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:44:10 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1397503 I agree with Vic's comment. But, I just have to wonder if or when Judicial Watch will start using the current administration's various outrageous actions in their mailouts. Any time that I see a JW mailing, I see Hillary and Bill Clinton mentioned quite prominently, even after 5 years of Bill not being the President. I've been to JW's website and THERE the group seems truly impartial, even highlighting their activities against many Bush/Cheney actions over the years (starting, I believe, with Cheney's Energy Policy meetings), but it seems rather clear that they seek donations only from "conservatives" who still fume over the fact that there was a Democrat in the White House (with a wife not satisfied to simply be a housewife with a title) for 8 years. I agree with Vic’s comment. But, I just have to wonder if or when Judicial Watch will start using the current administration’s various outrageous actions in their mailouts. Any time that I see a JW mailing, I see Hillary and Bill Clinton mentioned quite prominently, even after 5 years of Bill not being the President.
I’ve been to JW’s website and THERE the group seems truly impartial, even highlighting their activities against many Bush/Cheney actions over the years (starting, I believe, with Cheney’s Energy Policy meetings), but it seems rather clear that they seek donations only from “conservatives” who still fume over the fact that there was a Democrat in the White House (with a wife not satisfied to simply be a housewife with a title) for 8 years.

]]> By: Vic http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1397200 Vic Sat, 06 Jan 2007 17:32:58 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1397200 Just Imagine if the Clinton White House had done this, along with all the other secretive crap these hypocrites have pulled off, the freepers would've gone crazy and the right wing hate machine would've been churning out endless garbage. Bush and Cheney are lying scumbags and this is the beginning of the Executive Privilege fight that will go fro the next two years. They are going to fight every effort to expose their sleeze and crime. Just Imagine if the Clinton White House had done this, along with all the other secretive crap these hypocrites have pulled off, the freepers would’ve gone crazy and the right wing hate machine would’ve been churning out endless garbage. Bush and Cheney are lying scumbags and this is the beginning of the Executive Privilege fight that will go fro the next two years. They are going to fight every effort to expose their sleeze and crime.

]]> By: RUCerious http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1397152 RUCerious Sat, 06 Jan 2007 17:15:20 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1397152 There's no reason the logs cannot be made public. The conversations with the principles can certainly be held in confidence, but how would the mere presence of an individual be a private thing? There’s no reason the logs cannot be made public.
The conversations with the principles can certainly be held in confidence, but how would the mere presence of an individual be a private thing?

]]> By: the imbroglio » Blog Archive » White House visitor records closed to the public. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1396095 the imbroglio » Blog Archive » White House visitor records closed to the public. Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:24:14 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1396095 [...] “The White House and the Secret Service quietly signed an agreement last spring in the midst of the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal declaring that records identifying visitors to the White House are not open to the public.” Sounds like a gov’t of, by, and for the people to me. NOT. ⇒ Tags: bush administration , scandal , secrecy [...] [...] “The White House and the Secret Service quietly signed an agreement last spring in the midst of the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal declaring that records identifying visitors to the White House are not open to the public.” Sounds like a gov’t of, by, and for the people to me. NOT. ⇒ Tags: bush administration , scandal , secrecy [...]

]]> By: loretta http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1395588 loretta Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:57:50 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1395588 aren't these records public property, since we, the people, foot the bill? aren’t these records public property, since we, the people, foot the bill?

]]> By: paul http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1394981 paul Sat, 06 Jan 2007 07:09:21 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394981 #153. chimpeach. how's it going? I like your hypothetical, I think your idea is good, but I started thinking. Would it limit the ability of the President to conduct confidential business? I can't think of a great example, but I would guess there are dealings (legitimate, not criminal or unethical) that a President (R or D) would have that could only be accomplished with confidentiality. And free access to the logs would jeopardize the confidentiality. #153. chimpeach. how’s it going? I like your hypothetical, I think your idea is good, but I started thinking. Would it limit the ability of the President to conduct confidential business? I can’t think of a great example, but I would guess there are dealings (legitimate, not criminal or unethical) that a President (R or D) would have that could only be accomplished with confidentiality. And free access to the logs would jeopardize the confidentiality.

]]> By: erock http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1394884 erock Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:23:27 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394884 whoever it is he's pathetic and makes me sad for humanity. whoever it is he’s pathetic and makes me sad for humanity.

]]> By: Zooey http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1394877 Zooey Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:21:02 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394877 That's f*cking mandolin. The other day he made a point of saying he's just gotten back from eating some delicious chick fil a. That’s f*cking mandolin.

The other day he made a point of saying he’s just gotten back from eating some delicious chick fil a.

]]> By: ForTruth http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1394831 ForTruth Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:03:01 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394831 Wow, full on name calling. Cool. I'm a total asshole, and I should f4ck off. Wow, full on name calling. Cool.

I’m a total asshole, and I should f4ck off.

]]> By: hellinabucket http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1394829 hellinabucket Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:01:39 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394829 ....that chick is nucking futs ….that chick is nucking futs

]]> By: Lora http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1394824 Lora Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:59:38 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394824 ChildrenofLir , I hope your sister's breast cancer has been caught in an early stage. My mother has survived it for nearly 40 years. ChildrenofLir ,
I hope your sister’s breast cancer has been caught in an early stage. My mother has survived it for nearly 40 years.

]]> By: chimpeach http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-4/#comment-1394817 chimpeach Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:57:51 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394817 #158 <em>i have seen your posts</em> I've seen yours, too, Vinnie. Nice touch with the "...". At least it looks a little different from your usual stuff. <em>you are a freak</em> I'm going to take that as a compliment. #158

i have seen your posts

I’ve seen yours, too, Vinnie. Nice touch with the “…”. At least it looks a little different from your usual stuff.

you are a freak

I’m going to take that as a compliment.

]]> By: Zooey http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-3/#comment-1394815 Zooey Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:56:54 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394815 <em>Comment by chick fil a </em> F*ck, you are stupid. And crazy. Who let you out? Comment by chick fil a

F*ck, you are stupid. And crazy. Who let you out?

]]> By: erock http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-3/#comment-1394812 erock Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:55:18 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394812 <em>Comment by chick fil a — January 6, 2007 @ 12:52 am</em> damn you're stupid Comment by chick fil a — January 6, 2007 @ 12:52 am

damn you’re stupid

]]> By: chimpeach http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-3/#comment-1394811 chimpeach Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:55:16 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394811 #157 What a shock. Another make-believe character from dolt (Vinnie). #157

What a shock. Another make-believe character from dolt (Vinnie).

]]> By: Lora http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-3/#comment-1394807 Lora Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:54:09 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394807 I think #62 tried to use Japanese or Chinese fonts Zooey. Halbert ....reminds me of the days of I RIGHT I =) Comments by Zep Tepi — I am familiar with what happens when Japanese or Chinese fonts are sent to computers not geared to receive those languages, and the result does not look anything like #62. Halbert reminds me of I-WRONG-I, too. I think #62 tried to use Japanese or Chinese fonts Zooey.
Halbert ….reminds me of the days of I RIGHT I =)

Comments by Zep Tepi —

I am familiar with what happens when Japanese or Chinese fonts are sent to computers not geared to receive those languages, and the result does not look anything like #62.
Halbert reminds me of I-WRONG-I, too.

]]> By: erock http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-3/#comment-1394794 erock Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:50:38 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394794 i normally try to avoid this kind of thing but...chick fil a/A is an idiot. i normally try to avoid this kind of thing but…chick fil a/A is an idiot.

]]> By: chimpeach http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-3/#comment-1394791 chimpeach Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:49:08 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394791 #154 chick fil a <em>gibberish</em> Boy, sometimes you can slice the stupidity in here with a knife. Where do they come from? And who keeps letting them out? #154 chick fil a

gibberish

Boy, sometimes you can slice the stupidity in here with a knife. Where do they come from? And who keeps letting them out?

]]> By: chimpeach http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/comment-page-3/#comment-1394776 chimpeach Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:43:06 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/05/white-house-visitor-records-closed-to-the-public/#comment-1394776 Here's a hypothetical: If the president has a lobbyist coming into the White House dozens of times making deals, getting him campaign funds in return for favors to the lobbyist's clients, and then the president tells everyone that he's never met the lobbyist before and has never had any business dealings with him, we have a right to know whether or not that's true. The White House is Bush's workplace. We are his employer. We have a right to know who he's seeing and what he's doing on company time, especially when we have evidence that his seeings and doings are unethical or illegal. Do you follow? He works for us. He may live in the same building he works in, but that doesn't make it private property. That's OUR property. Here’s a hypothetical:

If the president has a lobbyist coming into the White House dozens of times making deals, getting him campaign funds in return for favors to the lobbyist’s clients, and then the president tells everyone that he’s never met the lobbyist before and has never had any business dealings with him, we have a right to know whether or not that’s true. The White House is Bush’s workplace. We are his employer. We have a right to know who he’s seeing and what he’s doing on company time, especially when we have evidence that his seeings and doings are unethical or illegal. Do you follow?

He works for us. He may live in the same building he works in, but that doesn’t make it private property. That’s OUR property.

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