War could last years, commander says.
The new American operational commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, “said Sunday that even with the additional American troops likely to be deployed in Baghdad under President Bush’s new war strategy it might take another ‘two or three years’ for American and Iraqi forces to gain the upper hand in the war.”
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it might take another ‘two or three years’ for American and Iraqi forces to gain the upper hand in the war.
Assuming they ever do.
I wish we could all stop discussing how it was the execution of the war that was wrong, when in reality the invasion was wrong from the beginning. The more we focus on talking about the “corrections” that are required to “win” this war, the more we lose from site how immoral and illegal this occupation is.
All this talk is only a way to help the rightwingers delude themselves into thinking they will get it right next time. You know there will be a next time; Iran already is on the Bush administration’s sights.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:07 amoh yah they serve the people all right …..
the american people want out of the
bush war lord games NOW.
what gives this totally corrupted
so called public servant a open
checkbook to put us trillions of
dollars into debt for the next 100
years for his war… the american
people DONOT want his war games
i thought only congress could declare
war? instead a totally corrupted congress
earmarks every request to raid social security
funds so george can continue his war.
ENOUGH TO MAKE….. i know, just call it for what
January 8th, 2007 at 12:12 amit is…… TOTALLY CORRUPT!!!!!!!
Impeach … the ONLY solution.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:16 amoh and i fogot, while we are on the subject of the myth of scarity,
lets talk about the reality of scarity.
for all the wonderful services the government provides to us, so earn $1
and you get 1/2 and we get 1/2
our so called wonderful services, bet we don’t get 5 cents out of a dollar.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:23 amat that kind of cost healthcare should be thrown in… instead what is
reality… the highest cost and you get better service/quality from mcdonalds
than from the medical professionals, it’s all about profits not a absolutely
essential service as important as so called healthcare… almost 25% don’t
have healthcare… all for bush’s & his buddies wargames… great isn’t it
jimbo,
Then you must LOVE what the Govern-ator is doing in California. Free child care to all children in the state, no matter their legal status as citizens.
If they are legal I have no beef with that. If they are ILLEGAL, treat them then send them back to where ever they came from.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:31 amChildren are never “illegal”.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:40 amChildren are never “illegalâ€.
Comment by Selina
Absolutely.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:49 amall i know is i was led to believe the government serve the people,
supposely with so many services we all desperately need.
but instead bush slashes education, slashes all these wonderful
services, cruises throughout the country to sell out our social
security and for what?
i really think the american people has been ruled by this most
corrupt administration now for 6 years… should have been
impeached a long long time ago. instead what happens, he
wins the 2004 election and corrupts the judicial system just
like all the arm twisting at the dracula votes in the wee hours
of the morning.
i believe every american would support this war if it served a
January 8th, 2007 at 12:55 ammeaningful purpose, instead what do we get for paying our
trusted servants — give you a hint a lot better service at
mcdonalds and alot cheaper too :)
hey, stick with the topic of the thread!
This time the military has a plan, and it’s a damn good one! Clean sweeps of the neighborhoods and station U.S. soldiers behind to make sure the insurgents don’t show their ugly faces again!
Read the damn article before you ridicule Bush. He’s gonna keep the soldiers over there until they do the job right. So what if their tour of duty is extended until McCain becomes President. This is all about US winning and the Terrorists losing!
January 8th, 2007 at 1:10 amI will rephrase that to “if their parents brought them to this country ILLEGALLY,”
Does that fit better? Before anyone screams racist, I do not care if they are from Germany, Poland, or Mexico.
Equal treatment under the law.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:13 amTwo or three years?
Why;that’s 5 or 6 Friedman’s !
January 8th, 2007 at 1:16 amSo what if their tour of duty is extended until McCain becomes President. This is all about US winning and the Terrorists losing!
Comment by truth fairy
Do a tour over there, then ask that question.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:16 amAnd that’s also 11 or 12 Warner’s !
January 8th, 2007 at 1:18 amChildren are never “illegalâ€.
Oh, I suppose entering the US without a visa or passport is perfectly legal, as long as youre under 18?
robert’s right, to hell with the 14th Amendment. Anyone who aint a citizen should be treated as an enemy combatnat and haul their ass to Gitmo!
January 8th, 2007 at 1:19 amI will rephrase that to “if their parents brought them to this country ILLEGALLY,â€
Equal treatment under the law.
Comment by robert
What if their parents are illegal, but the children are legal citizens?
How do you make that equal?
January 8th, 2007 at 1:20 amDo a tour over there, then ask that question.
They volunteered, dip$hit. If Bush want’s to keep them there until hell freezes over, it’s his right. Bush is the commander in chief, not you!
January 8th, 2007 at 1:21 am“Equal treatment under the law.”
Hell Yes! That’s why we gotta have one more vote on teh Supreme Court…keep those activist liberal judges from saying the Constitution applies to everybody. Its us CITIZENS who got all the rights, everyone else can just go to hell!
January 8th, 2007 at 1:24 amThey volunteered, dip$hit. If Bush want’s to keep them there until hell freezes over, it’s his right. Bush is the commander in chief, not you!
Comment by truth fairy
No, I am not the C-in-C, I am one of the commanded, or in your mind, another piece on the chessboard.
I do what the C-in-C says to do (so long as it is legal)as that is my job that I volunteered for. But some pompous ass like you saying “So what if their tour of duty is extended..” does not know what he is talking about. You are talking about lives and everthing is not as clear cut as you see it in Hollywood.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:28 amWhat if their parents are illegal, but the children are legal citizens?
How do you make that equal?
Simple, either make it so kids born of illegal parents arent legal, or ship the parents back to whatever 3rd world hell hole they came from and put the kids in an orphanage. do that enough times and it will cut down on preganant bitches crossing our boarders just so they cna have a “legal” kid!
January 8th, 2007 at 1:31 amWhat if their parents are illegal, but the children are legal citizens?
How do you make that equal?
The child leaves with the parent or can be put into care with someone that is here legally until the parents can come to this country legally. Who is ultimately responsable for the child? The parents or the government?
January 8th, 2007 at 1:31 amYou are talking about lives
If we were so worried about lives on D-Day Hitler would still be running Europe. Youre in the Army? Then your job is to kill people. oh, and you might get the opportunity to give your life for your country. Winning the War on Terror is more importnat than the lives of a few soldiers. If you guys chicken out now, we’ll be fighting Terrorists right here on the home turf!
If Bush extends your tour of duty, tough shit. suck it up and do your duty. thats what your there for, soldier boy.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:36 amHow do you make that equal?
see! robert and me agree!
January 8th, 2007 at 1:38 amThe child leaves with the parent or can be put into care with someone that is here legally until the parents can come to this country legally. Who is ultimately responsable for the child? The parents or the government?
Comment by robert
You have got to be kidding me. Put yourself in that situation.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:38 amsee! robert and me agree!
Comment by truth fairy
Shut up.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:40 amThis is perfect fodder for the nazi left. The nazi left wants the war to continue and for their islamo-fascist allies to gain a stronghold in Iraq.
Remember, the nazi left didn’t like us going into Afghanistan.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:41 amThey volunteered, dip$hit.
Comment by truth fairy — January 8, 2007 @ 1:21 am
To what Robert said I would like to add that the servicemembers did not volunteer to be part of an invasion launched under false pretenses, or be part occupation force that would stay in Iraq for the foreseeable future, or to place themselves to danger so the Great (mis)Leader can save face -instead of withdrawing them after the WMD were not found.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:41 amrobert, zooey, relax. I was proving a point, I hope. I can post vulgarity and insulting comments which totally violate the “Terms of Use” and TP lets those posts show up. But if I post something that hits a little to close to home against the Bush Administration, that post gets deleted, or becomes one of those mysterious apearing/disappearing posts.
Peace, robert. You know I do support our women and men in uniform.
Briseadh na Faire
January 8th, 2007 at 1:43 amtruth fairy
1) I am not in the Army. I am a Marine.
2) Your speach about the glory of dieing for your country belongs 2 places.
a) Kamakazi pilots of WWII.
b)Cheesy action movies.
You speak like all those woulda’-coulda’ heros. (I woulda’ joined but.., I coulda’ done that but..)
So I offer you a challenge. Either
a)Shut up.
b)Offer up a real opinion and offer something constructive.
c) Sign a contract, grab a rifle, and spend a few months in the IZ.
AS I feel you would not do any of the above, I dismiss you. You are a waste of my time.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:45 am**eyes rolling**
January 8th, 2007 at 1:46 amZooey, remember what I said about BnF earlier? Cancel it.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:47 amSupport takes more than a bumper sticker.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:47 amSupporting them when they come home tired, wounded, without a job perspective would be more of a challenge.
robert, for you…something on the goldstarfamiliesforpeace site:
Deadly Wait
by Ken Mackie
People put in power
play their deadly game
Searching, vainly searching,
for someone else to blame.
(Soldiers die,
mothers cry;
Omni-impotent fathers wonder why.)
As long as there’s a profit,
We’ll wait another day,
While children of the wealthy
“round the rosie†play.
“Asses ashes all fall downâ€
When the prophet comes to town.
Wonder who the rich will pay
to keep their children safe that day?
When babies in their cradle
Are gently rocked to sleep
By cluster bombs and bloody palms,
Ne’er their souls to keep.
(Soldiers die,
mothers cry)
While the politicians lie.
And people in their bomb shelters
January 8th, 2007 at 1:47 amplay their deadly game:
Searching, vainly searching,
for someone else to blame.
You have got to be kidding me. Put yourself in that situation.
Comment by Zooey
Here is the thing, I wouldn’t put myself in theat position.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:49 amZooey, remember what I said about BnF earlier? Cancel it.
Comment by robert
Yep. Done.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:49 amHere is the thing, I wouldn’t put myself in theat position.
Comment by robert
As soon as I hit “Post - I agree” I knew you would say that.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:51 amTry anyway.
Idiotic fairies who cannot tell the difference between a war against a tangible and identifiable enemy v/s an invisible and unidentifiable enemy are opining about wars and jerking off to WWII while blocking out memories of Vietnam.
No wonder the world’s only super power is getting its ass handed to it by a few unarmed civilians dressed in nightgowns.
Pathetic.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:55 amAbby,
That idiotic fairy was a parody. *sigh*
January 8th, 2007 at 1:56 amZooey, I agree it is a crappy position to be put in. No doubt about it. But who made that choice? Life is made up of choices and consequences. If you do not like the price…
January 8th, 2007 at 1:56 amoh, and for what it’s worth, robert, the 14th Amendment applies to all “persons” not just citizens. That’s why efforts to keep non citizens from the benefits of public programs are unconstitutional.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:58 amBriseadh na Faire, HAven’t we peeled the onion on the 14th before? That is why deportation of illegals is the right thing to do. It is legal and Constiutional.
I have no issue with someone that wants to be here legally.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:02 amBut who made that choice? Life is made up of choices and consequences. If you do not like the price…
Comment by robert
Not the child. The child did not make any choices, but accepts all the consequences.
What Briseadh na Faire said, if you’re still reading his stuff….
January 8th, 2007 at 2:03 amThe parents made the choice. If I sell crack out of my house and the police arrest me and take my kids away from me, they are paying the price for my crime, right?
Before you say “well, a good parent wouldn’t do that and they deserve to have their kids taken away.” Remember, Illegal immagrants are doing the same thing. Commiting a crime in the presence of their children.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:07 amWhat everyone is ignoring is that we won this war three months after it started. We have achieved US goals and have a “regime change.” So, why are we still there? There were no WMD. Saddam has been tried and executed. They have a new constitution, government, and military. We are done. Mission accomplished. So, why are we still there??????
January 8th, 2007 at 2:09 am#37 oops. Maybe I’ll be able to comprehend what I read better after I get some sleep.
G’nite and take care, all.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:10 amBefore you say “well, a good parent wouldn’t do that and they deserve to have their kids taken away.†Remember, Illegal immagrants are doing the same thing. Commiting a crime in the presence of their children.
Comment by robert
I don’t say that kind of stuff, you do!
Oy. I’m sorry, Robert I have to go to bed. Death threats and weird-assed friends have taken their toll. I’m fried. Thanks for all you do. Goodnight.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:12 amCarole
I don’t know, ask the new manditory 5 days a week, 4 day a week Congress.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:15 amZooey, have a good one and thanks for keeping me entertained.
BnF, if you are there :P
January 8th, 2007 at 2:16 amI don’t know, ask the new manditory 5 days a week, 4 day a week Congress.
Comment by robert
And will it also be a four day work week next week?
Or is this a one-time thing?
January 8th, 2007 at 2:28 amSo, why are we still there??????
Comment by Carole
Iran.
Even before deposing Saddam, we identified them as part of the Axis of Evil, and Bush thinks by provoking a confrontation, we’ll stir up the Sunni/Shi’a hatreds to such a point they’ll explode, and further frationate would-be terrorist coalitions. And then we’ll play one side off against the other, just like Reagan and Bush 1 did. It’ll be a humanitarian nightmare of such magnitude, the Iraq war will look like a May Day parade by comparison. But by then Bush will be safely out of office - taking another page from his father’s final days in office.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:31 amOh, and while we’re doing it, publicly, Bush will be offering his condolences, and decrying the brutality on both sides, just like Reagan.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:36 amBarfly, They reconvine on Tuesday.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:36 amThey reconvine on Tuesday.
Comment by robert
This week. What about next week?
January 8th, 2007 at 2:38 amRobert:
http://majorityleader.house.gov/docUploads/2007-CALENDAR.pdf
That four-day week is baloney. Next Monday is MLK’s b’day, but there are votes scheduled for Monday the week after. Where did you get your info?
January 8th, 2007 at 2:58 amwe need a wall down south to keep the mexicans out and a wall up north to keep the national healthcare system out!
January 8th, 2007 at 3:52 amPity all the oil cant be pumped out in that time (2-3 years) and added to the Strateigc Reserve (Halliburton and Friends Retirement Fund)
January 8th, 2007 at 4:24 amWhow. Bushs numbers suddenly turn really shitty. 17000 dead in half a year
January 8th, 2007 at 7:08 amPaul Krugman talks about Iraq being “the quagmire of the vanities.” A must-read.
January 8th, 2007 at 7:27 amAlternet has a compelling article today concerning oil companies and the fact that they are about to cut a deal with the Iraq powers-that-be. It sheds some light onto why Bush is “surging.”
January 8th, 2007 at 7:41 amAnother 3 years…then Bush will be out..and Republicans will say..it is not Bush’s fault losing this war…By then, every penny in the budget is gone, sucked by this war in Iraq,beside the large number of killed,injured for life soldiers and Iraqis…
January 8th, 2007 at 7:44 amJUST GET OUT YOU ARE THE ONES CAUSING THE TROUBLE
January 8th, 2007 at 7:51 amIt is a pity that your military have to die for oil. The three big oil companies are getting a contract for 30 years to pump Iraqi oil. I am so out raged about this. The Iraq government has to vote on this. I hope they vote aganist this.
January 8th, 2007 at 7:55 amJust as long as the oil fields are safe. This hasn’t made cnn yet (will it ever), but the timing of the troop surge and this news coming out is probably not a coincidence:
link
January 8th, 2007 at 8:46 am[http://aydin.net/blog/2007/01/08/operation-iraqi-freedom-the-real-invasion-begins/]
OK… tooth fairy is not for real. He’s just getting people angry. I can’t believe people get fished in reading TF’s obviously inflammatory stuff. He’s an Ann Coulter wanna-be. Ignore…
Moving along…
“We’re gonna keep the war going until… let’s see… the next president. Then we can call him a coward for giving up” - whatever puppet General CNN quotes lately.
January 8th, 2007 at 8:47 amThat four-day week is baloney. Next Monday is MLK’s b’day, but there are votes scheduled for Monday the week after. Where did you get your info?
Comment by Barfly
You are right, they HAD to take today off for a football game. Priorities, you know.
January 8th, 2007 at 9:14 amThey’ll never get the upper hand b/c they were never willing, and now not able, to put 400,000 troops on the ground. They had a window of opportunity 2-3 years ago, but it is closed now. We need to bring our boys home.
January 8th, 2007 at 9:15 amWhose favor did Odierno earn to warrant his placement in this position and how did he earn it? I am extremely skeptical of everyone whose name surfaces these days - it seems like Bush is simply appointing people who have expressed willingness to agree with whatever he says, because I think his mind is made up and he is just looking to build the facade of military agreement.
January 8th, 2007 at 9:24 amIs Odierno going to tell us in 6 months that the “surge” needs another 6 months and then another because he has already declared this will take years? When will they admit that the “surge” is simply escalation? Didn’t anyone learn anything 35 years ago?
Drudge is the self-appointed hallway monitor of Congress.
January 8th, 2007 at 9:25 amYeah, maybe.
January 8th, 2007 at 9:46 amOr maybe we could just declare this to be the “never ending war”
and be done with it.
Kristol, Kagan and Satan would be thrilled.
Carol.
January 8th, 2007 at 9:50 amOil.
Oderino is a very bad choice as second in command in Iraq..the guy who will be in charge of day to day operations there. Here’s a very interesting article about him and the Fourth Infantry division he led during his tour in Iraq. For more indepth information, read the book “Fiasco.” Putting this guy in such a powerful position over there will be one more diaster.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2006/ 07/ 23/ AR2006072300495.html
January 8th, 2007 at 10:16 amFirst let me say that I never believed that Bush provided adequated justification for pre-emptive war against Iraq. Once the first mistake was made I felt the Powell pottery barn argument of you break it you own it was in play.
When the widespread looting took place following the fall of Baghdad, and even worse, the scores of unprotected ammo dumps being looted showed that the pottery barn argument was not being followed. Accordingly, I immediately called for another 100,000 troops be sent to quickly bring order to what was already a mess. Rather than that the Bush administration disbanded the former Iraqi military and police, thus assuring failure. But there was still time to reverse course and probably turn things around. That window was slammed shut with the decision not to hold Fallujah and let it become a stronghold for insurgents.
Since the Bush administration steadfastly refused to abide by the pottery barn principle I started calling for the immediate, phased withdrawl of
American military forces. Staying only meant we were breaking more pottery and that has been proven over and over again. Escelation, or surging, only means that the pottery can be broken faster.
I still feel that we owe Iraq a lot in the area of reconstruction. But it is time to let the Iraqi’s settle their political differences and bring an end to the widespread violence going on daily. There is no doubt that there would be a spike from the already high level of killing going on in Iraq today. Once that dust settles then we need to provide resources for reconstruction. At that point in time it may be necessary to funnel those funds through UN relief agencies.
Will this bring about a good outcome? Absolutely not. But it will be less bad than “surging” and causing more destruction. We are way past the time where a rescue mission can be mounted. It is time to scale way back and start a recovery mission when conditions permit.
January 8th, 2007 at 10:17 amRe#16 truth fairy
Why should the fact that the military is volunteer matter?
Are you saying the standards for going to war, should be lower for those who volunteer versus those who are drafted?
Should you not only go to war only when ABSOLUTELY necessary?
Don’t soldiers give an oath to the United States and not to George W Bush, and don’t they have a duty to ignore their illegal orders, just like the Nazi soldiers had a duty to ignore their villegal orders?
January 8th, 2007 at 11:17 amsigh - criticalthinker that was a “joke”, someone trying to make a point. A very smart, pissed-off someone.
people are snapping all over the place.
January 8th, 2007 at 11:40 amAt this point, I think Bush is trying to prolong the war until the oil companies can cut their deals. It was only about a week ago that Bush mentioned oil interests, I think. This war may or may not have been started because of oil, but I do think that oil is what it is about now. They want 75% of the revenues for the first x number of years. This is the most sickening, downright callous business deal. Maybe Cafferty or Olbermann will bring it up today.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:03 pmRemember, Illegal immagrants are doing the same thing. Commiting a crime in the presence of their children.
Comment by robert #42
robert,
…what “WOULDN’T” you do…
…to feed your family…
…and give your children a decent chance at life?
January 8th, 2007 at 12:27 pmYou are right, they HAD to take today off for a football game. Priorities, you know.
Comment by robert
How about orientation? Geeze, they were only sworn in last Thursday, and there are a lot of new members. Thanks for confirming that your “four day work week” was just baloney.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:50 pmAnd Robert, the latest is the republicans asked for the postponement! But don’t let me stop you from bashing the dems, regardless of reality . . .
January 8th, 2007 at 3:13 pmYou are right, they HAD to take today off for a football game. Priorities, you know.
January 8th, 2007 at 3:25 pmComment by robert
Of course, you know that the request came from Boehner (R-OH) and was granted by Pelosi in the spirit of good will.
It’s hard for the once all powerful majority to give up all their goodies in one fell swoop.
Remember, Illegal immagrants are doing the same thing. Commiting a crime in the presence of their children.
Comment by robert
So working without papers to feed their families is a crime? And your opinion about your president who directly and indirectly is killing thousands of iraqis and your soldiers is …
I would encourage you to go to Zacatecas, Guerrero, Oaxaca and Chiapas…the poorest states in Mexico where there are no men because most of them are working in the US or dying in the attempt. When you see the misery that they live in, Im sure you will change your POV about immigrants.
January 8th, 2007 at 5:16 pm