Hagel On Escalation: ‘The Most Dangerous Foreign Policy Blunder in this Country Since Vietnam’
Hagel On Escalation: ‘The Most Dangerous Foreign Policy Blunder in this Country Since Vietnam’
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) passionately argued against President Bush’s escalation plan during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing today.
During questioning of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Hagel called the new strategy “morally wrong” and “tactically, strategically, militarily wrong,” and declared, “I have to say, Madam Secretary, that I think this speech given last night by this president represents the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam.” Audience members in the hearing room clapped as Hagel concluded, “I will resist it.” Watch it:
Transcript:
I think what the president said last night — and I listened carefully and read through it again this morning — is all about a broadened American involvement — escalation — in Iraq and the Middle East. I do not agree with that escalation.
And I would further note that when you say, as you have here this morning, that we need to address and help the Iraqis and pay attention to the fact that Iraqis are being killed, Madam Secretary, Iraqis are killing Iraqis. We are in a civil war. This is sectarian violence out of control; Iraqi on Iraqi.
Worst, it is inner-sectarian violence; Shia killing Shia.
To ask our young men and women to sacrifice their lives to be put in the middle of a civil war is wrong.
It’s, first of all, in my opinion, morally wrong. It’s tactically, strategically, militarily wrong.
[Snip]
When you were engaging Chairman Biden on this issue on the specific question of, Will our troops go into Iran or Syria in pursuit, based on what the president said last night?, you cannot sit here today — not because you’re dishonest or you don’t understand — but no one in our government can sit here today and tell Americans that we won’t engage the Iranians and the Syrians cross-border.
Some of us remember 1970, Madam Secretary. And that was Cambodia. And when our government lied to the American people and said, We didn’t cross the border going into Cambodia, in fact we did. I happen to know something about that, as do some on this committee.
So, Madam Secretary, when you set in motion the kind of policy that the president is talking about here, it’s very, very dangerous. As a matter of fact, I have to say, Madam Secretary, that I think this speech given last night by this president represents the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam — if it’s carried out.
I will resist it.
(APPLAUSE)
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134 Responses to “Hagel On Escalation: ‘The Most Dangerous Foreign Policy Blunder in this Country Since Vietnam’”
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Excellent. Unfortunately, it’s going to take Republicans to help stop the madness, so it’s good to see one who’s not inmeshed in it.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:13 pmWe have just committed an act of war on Iran by breaking into their embassy, arresting their personnel and taking their computers. Again, it looks as if Bush is just begging to be impeached.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:14 pmBush is the biggest blunder since Nixon.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:14 pmIraq just happens to be part of that blunder.
Now that’s how to publicly respond to this administration! BRAVO!!!! The rest of you Democrats pay attention!!
January 11th, 2007 at 2:14 pmThe generals, the soldiers, and most of the republican congress all say that escalation is a mistake. Bush and the trolls are the only ones defending this outrageous plan. Why is that?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:15 pmIf EVER I could bring myself to vote for a Repulsivescum…
…Hagel would be it…
…he’s been there from the beginning speaking truth to power…
…although he HAS stumbled some along the way…
January 11th, 2007 at 2:15 pmHagel knows what war is all about….he has been in one. Sadly people like Lieberman and most Senators didn’t. To them it is like reading a novel or watch a movie…until they lose a son or daughter….and that it is unlikely.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:17 pmAnd the applause. Show that tape to the prez a few times.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:17 pmWhy does Chuck Hagel hate America?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:19 pmWhat are you going to do about it Congress?
Yeah thats what we thought.
Americans need to invade DC by the millions, pick a date plaese, I will be there.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:19 pmhow about the most dangerous blunder since the founding of the republic?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:20 pmBlogging President Bush’s Iraq Address Like A Liberal Would The DNC Talking Points…
So I heard from a friend that Bush gave some sort of speech last night about Iraq. I busy doing something else, but I know I would have agreed with him because we both are Republicans….
January 11th, 2007 at 2:20 pmNo shit, Chuck.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:21 pmWas she under oath for this testimony? And if so, did they ask her why Novak says that people secretly tell him off the record that the State Department is “a mess”? Did they ask her why she loves all the Fox News boys?
Finally, under oath, can they please get her to say if she supports the president because she believes that what he is doing will actually work to bring about the changes they seek and make our country safer (in theory)? Or does she support him because she’s loyal to him?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:22 pmRepublicans are the biggest blunder since the Whigs.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:23 pmBush just happens to be part of that blunder.
It is about time someone in Congress has made Rice look uncomfortable. Now if only more members of Congress will make Bush uncomfortable by calling for an end to the funding and calling for the immediate withdrawal of those troops from that quagmire in Iraq. The Raw Story reports that the Pentagon estimates that an incredible 92,000 troops will be needed in Vietnam [better make that Iraq] over the course of the next five years. Has Congress finally awakened from its somnambulent state or will they continue to give carte blanche to whatever Bush desires, even if that means more soldiers killed and more of them returning to this country grievously wounded and maimed and crippled, for no legitimate reason whatsoever?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:26 pmI think this speech given last night by this president represents the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam.
I disagree.
This is not the most dangerous foreign policy blunder since Vietnam, but the second most dangerous since Vietnam.
The first one being, of course, the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Or would that make it the third most dangerous? And to think he still has two more years…
::shudder::
January 11th, 2007 at 2:27 pmI hate the fact that it is a REPUBLICAN who tells it like it is, and democrats have not yet begun a more agressive denunciation of Bush’s newest blunder.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:32 pmForgive my dimness, but “CES”? What’s that and, out of curiosity, what part of the country was it in?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:34 pmWas the U.S. attack on the Iranian consulate in northern Iraq, seizing personnel and computers, the beginning of the undeclared war against Iran? Isn’t attacking a diplomatic mission something that’s usually considered, um, an act of war? As another commenter said, Bush is begging to be impeached. Hope Hagel’s stand helps give the Democrats a spine transplant.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:35 pmIt is truly amazing that the polsters can find the 30%ers, because I sure as hell can’t.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — January 11, 2007 @ 2:29 pm
Oh, I can find them easily allright: My in-laws are fierce Bush backers. But I honestly thought they were the only ones -besides the Bush relatives and cronies.
It sort of makes you wonder when even Republican senators are now more inclined to oppose Pres Bush’s initiatives, and are also vocal about it. Like this escalation.
Welcome back, BTW.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:35 pmSpudge, I thought the same thing when I read Wayne’s post, I had to go back and re-read the article, too.
We’re fine, how’s about you? Besides your nonexistent voice?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:36 pmSpudge,
Check yesterdays Kennedy thread, or hell any thread about Kennedy for the 30%. They are getting more and more rabid. Glad to see Hagel saying something, I just wander if he will follow it up with a vote?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:36 pmThey’ll just write him off as another latte-drinking, Volvo-driving, sushi-eating liberal from Vermont. So what if he’s a Republican from Nebraska.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:38 pmI would vote for Ron Paul perhaps. You can read his stuff here.
http://www.house.gov/paul/
January 8, 2007: Totalization is a Bad Idea
Yes, Faux Trollips, I read Republican stuff as well. =)
January 11th, 2007 at 2:38 pm[…] Watch Video […]
January 11th, 2007 at 2:38 pmJeez, what’s with the expression on Rice’s mug?
Part contempt, part boredom, part just plain fugly.
Ya know, she’s got a PhD, couldn’t she have helped chimpie a little more with his speech? Like, constructing and defending an argument, and coming to a logical conclusion?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:39 pmThank you Sen. Hagel.
Hagel / Obama 08
January 11th, 2007 at 2:39 pmThey are getting more and more rabid. -Krazny
Then it shouldn’t be too long before they turn on Liberal Kennedy school of politics Oreally.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:40 pmFrom his various appearances on the Sunday political shows, I’ve found that Hagel seems to be one of the most moderate Republicans. I already respected him before this, and I’m glad that he is continuing to stick to his guns.
Did everyone catch Mike Huckabee on Jon Stewart last night? I wish Jon could have spent more time with him, he sounded pretty reasonable and pragmatic, too. Also had a sense of humor. For a Republican. :)
January 11th, 2007 at 2:43 pmFinally a Republican with a lick of common sense.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:44 pmThis is the show that all of the major technology companies launch all of the cool gadgets we use.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Like the Lady Tazer now in pink. ;)
Did you get to see/use the iPhone? Or better yet what made your jaw drop?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:45 pmOh please. Chuck Hagel?
It makes me laugh when you urban lefties embrace a flyover Repub. just because he happens to have one opinion that you agree with.
Where’s the red-state disdain guys?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pmThanks, Spudge. Now I get it. (The bulb just got brighter.) I’m surprised that such a heavily business-related show would be lacking for Bush supporters.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pmI love Chuck Hagel.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:48 pmMadame Secretary meet the woodshed.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI said it before and I’ll say it again. Nobody, not the troops, not the generals, not the republicans or the democrats … nobody supports sending more troops into this civil war.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI don’t get it….why are they even talking about this? Hasn’t Bush already deployed most of the units?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI liked Huckabee’s quote “I’m a conservative, I’m just not angry at everybody”.
So Cynicon, throwing Hagel under the bus already. Keep it up and you’ll have nobody left to drive the bus.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:52 pmCynicon,
We in the “Blue States” do not have nearly the disdain for “Red Staters” as they have for us. We like to see Republicans who do not parrot the Bish administration on everything. Frist should have just stayed home and let Cheney run the Senate for all the good it did to have a separate person in charge. Frist supported Bush on virtually everything (and the qualifier is just in case he disagreed with him on one or two things). At least Hagel is willing to say when he thinks the president is wrong. Most Republicans in Congress are loathe to do that, because they put loyalty to their party ahead of loyalty to their country. Hagel, at least occasionally, shows signs that he’s different. And I believe that’s why he’s liked.
But, hey, I’m just a New York liberal, so what do I know?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:52 pmann: “I don’t get it….why are they even talking about this? Hasn’t Bush already deployed most of the units?”
Are you suggesting that we all be good germans and shut up?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pmHoly cheet I have never witnessed a Republican standing up to the Buush administration like that! What’s next a return to inependent thinking?
January 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pmIt makes me laugh when you urban lefties embrace a flyover Repub. Comment by Cynicon Implant
I guess you haven’t been paying attention, I am not a democrat, I am sovereign, as your Lord, Jesus.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pm#
I don’t get it….why are they even talking about this? Hasn’t Bush already deployed most of the units?
Comment by ann — January 11, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Yes he has started - some from the 82nd Airborne and some of my friends from the 89th MP Brigade. However, troops cost money, and he still has to go through congress for that.
January 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pm#38 Cynicon Implant
Oh please. Chuck Hagel?
It makes me laugh when you urban lefties embrace a flyover Repub. just because he happens to have one opinion that you agree with.
Where’s the red-state disdain guys?
Hagel’s been pretty consistent with it.
From 6/20/05:
“Things aren’t getting better; they’re getting worse. The White House is completely disconnected from reality,” Hagel tells U.S. News. “It’s like they’re just making it up as they go along. The reality is that we’re losing in Iraq.”
I wonder if the Republicans would consider trading Hagel for Lieberman. It would be straight across, one-for-one. They get a blue state Republican, we get a red state Democrat.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:00 pmSpudge Boy, that’s refreshing to hear. Business drives so much of this country and if they have th blinders off will only help push this country back on track.
iphone way cool
January 11th, 2007 at 3:02 pmWhile Dumbya was busy getting drunk and chasing skirts as a Texas Air National Guardsman (Champagne Unit) ‘ol Chcuk Hagel was a grunt in Vietnam fighting for his country. I enjoy seeing cowardly non-fighters like Cheney and Dumbya getting bitch slapped by the likes of Rep. Murtha and Sen. Hagel. Time to let the grown ups start making some of the tough decisions.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:05 pmThe Repubs will Filibuster, and the Dems? *crickets chirping*
See Dems are too nice, and play too fairly to deal with the Rethugs.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:06 pmWayne,
That’s not true. We like to see Democrats do not reflexively attack the Bush administration on everything. At least Lieberman is willing to say when he thinks the president is correct. Most Democrats in Congress are loathe to do that, because they put loyalty to their party ahead of loyalty to their country. Lieberman, at least occasionally, shows signs that he’s different. And I believe that’s why he’s liked.
But, hey, I’m just a New York conservative, so what do I know?
January 11th, 2007 at 3:12 pmhttp://www.house.gov/
I find it’s better to look at the reps web pages and get a feel for what they are about than to rely on the overpaid, overly bearing, and obnoxious spin zens.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:14 pmI tend to think the day Bush was born was the biggest blunder of all.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:17 pmBut, hey, I’m just a New York conservative, so what do I know?
Comment by Exley
You wouldn’t be experiencing a “Northeast Dilemma” would you?
January 11th, 2007 at 3:20 pmHasn’t Bush already deployed most of the units?
Comment by ann #44
That’s what I’m wondering ann…
…I heard that the one way Bushiva could circumvent the Congressional opposition (cutting of funding)…
…would be to have the troops already in theater…
…that way Congress wouldn’t dare refuse to fund troops “already in harms way”… (there ARE some already in Kuwait)…
…I’ve also heard that there is already money in the pipeline that Bushiva got from previous appropriations…
…at any rate, you can bet HE’s going to PUSH…
…the TRILLION DOLLAR question is…
…will the Democrats STAND UP and PULL…
…for the people?…
January 11th, 2007 at 3:20 pmPut me down for, this is just more of the same blunder. But to tell the truth, the blunder was the millions of voters who not only put Bush in office, but voted for him again. Blame yourself Hagel.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:21 pmExley the reflexive attacks on the Bush admin is an adaptation, kinda like a spinal cord response to pain, it just happens as a survival mechanism.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pmTalk about oxymorons. A red stater living in a blue state. Why the freepers are going to group you by association, You Liberal-Con =)
(kidding)
January 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pm#57. Hah! Lieberman is a Republican lapdog. He could give a shit about anyone but him (good Republican attribute). Only senator mentioned in last nights address because he is one of the few (thankfully) lunatics that think Iraq is a success. Party loyalty ahead of public interest (loyalty…whatever). Hmmm. Remeber Tom Whatshisname? Sell out US to court favor with Jack Abramoff…Oh yeah, great Americans, really loyal to……no one but themselves. You can keep Lieberman, we have the votes to save this country without him.Thanks though.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:23 pm“Verloren ist nur, wer sich selbst aufgibt.”
You wouldn’t be experiencing a “Northeast Dilemma†would you?
Comment by ForTruth
Oh my!
January 11th, 2007 at 3:23 pmDavid Fox sez:
Bush was not put into office by the voters, in either 2000 or 2004.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:24 pmMaybe I’m wrong, but didn’t Hagel say he didn’t vote for Bush?
January 11th, 2007 at 3:25 pmExley, Liebermann is not a democrat and Bush was not speaking the truth. If he was lastnight, he wasn’t in his earlier speeches/statements to the country. Loyalty to party? are you f%cking serious? The republicans marched lock step with the admins ideas these past 6 years. And if the president was speaking the truth lastnight, he was lying before and the republican house and senate jumped and didn’t bother to say “how high?”.
Let’s ask the fine citizens of CT about their Senator and see how much he’s liked.
Show me a republican that isn’t being slandered today that thinks for himself and I’ll show you someone who’s not currently in office.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:26 pmBut Exley, Lieberman is wrong about the president being correct! And when is that, BTW (the president being correct?) Oh, sure, occasionally his ideological views happen to coincide with reality, but more often than that, his decision making is based on a fantasy view of the world. Unfortunately, his errors have been deadly for many people. I’m glad more Republicans are standing up to him.
I won’t dispute whether or not some Democrats put loyalty to their party ahead of loyalty to their country. But it happens to be true of A LOT of Republicans ovewr the past six years. If they were doing their jobs right in Congress, they would have denied this president a great deal of his agenda because it wasn’t in the interests of the entire country.
What is it now, about 4-6 weeks before pitchers and catchers report for spring training? Football is over as far as this New Yorker is concerned.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:28 pm…uh…
January 11th, 2007 at 3:31 pmnot sure if it’s been mentioned yet… but did dubya say that our troops will be under the command of an iraqi officer? …working out of the local police stations (that are routinely blown up)??? (via randi)
…eh?…
Lieberman is a DINO. Don’t use him as an example, because you lose credibility everytime you do it.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Exley ran out of credibility sometime in November I believe. He is taking loans out now.
As for Lieberman isn’t he an IINO?
January 11th, 2007 at 3:34 pmYes he has started - some from the 82nd Airborne and some of my friends from the 89th MP Brigade. However, troops cost money, and he still has to go through congress for that.
Comment by Chris
If I remember correctly, Rumsfeld has not spent quite a bit of money he had gotten.
(going to lunch and don’t have the time right now to look it up right now)
January 11th, 2007 at 3:36 pmAmazing, isn’t it? It was here on this board were the obvious was populated first. People here know where we are heading. Remember Hitler? “Wollt ihr den totalen Krieg?†- “Do You want total war?†The staged masses answered “Yes!â€
January 11th, 2007 at 3:39 pmThis time it is different. The masses don’t want total war, but they will get it anyway. Because there is a psychopathic mass murderer in the WH. The Iranian Embassy was raided. US troops went IN and ABDUCTED diplomatic personel. This is a blatant disregard of international law and in earlier times in history granted a reason to go to war.
Without getting too much into what the consequences will be,
let us contemplate about our possible reactions.
The most important factor for this administration is money. In whatever form it appears. Behind this administration are powers that want exactly that - money. It is all about money in good capitalist and imperialist tradition.
The only way to stop this administration is to dry out the funds that keep it going. I am not talking about Congress and its rather useless attempts to stop Bush. No, I am talking about the American people that have hearts and brains left, that love their children, their families and their friends.
Stop spending money period. Buy only what You need to barely survive. Don’t drive more than to work or the supermarket. Don’t go to the movies, don’t fly or go on vacations. Don’t spend any dollar anymore. If that seems to be too big of a sacrifice, well then make yourself familiar with the effects of a nuclear war that will not be limited to the Middle East. The World is already against the US. Nations will join the fight against the imperial USA of which you thought of as ‘allies’. It is in (Y)OUR hands to prevent the greatest
catastrophy humans have ever witnessed. If you think that is exaggerated, wait and see. There are recognizable patterns throughout history as of what results a specific action will show. Act now. Total consumer boycott now. Show them who is ‘The People’. Your voice can be ignored, your dollars will not. And with all due respect for people here that are talking about elections in 2008. Will You please wake up? There will be no more 2008 if we don’t act now.
You wouldn’t be experiencing a “Northeast Dilemma†would you?
Comment by ForTruth — January 11, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
No, not NED!? Aaaagghhh!
Hi, Exley! Hope all is well with you despite our common loss!
January 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pmand another thing - i did not know this, as i was tuned to MSNBC…
the regular networks did not cover the DEMOCRATIC REBUTTAL that followed dubya’s speech… had to get back to ‘deal or no deal’…
that LIBRUL MEDIA has got some ’splaining to do!
January 11th, 2007 at 3:44 pmYeah, Wayne…About six weeks to pitchers and catchers. Can’t wait…(By the way, just for the record, I am — at best — ambivalent about the proposed surge).
ForTruth, What is a “Northeast Dilemma?” A consvervative living in a liberal state?
January 11th, 2007 at 3:50 pmHi Jane…Yeah, I am fine…I really didn’t expect them to beat New England. But they gave it a good try for the first half….
What the heck is a Northeast Dilemma? Do I need to go use “The Google” to find out?
January 11th, 2007 at 3:52 pmExley, you weren’t around when we had this ‘guy’ whose comment name was NortheastDilemma, aka NeD, as one of the resident trolls. What an a-hole! He had his own website, and the picture of him looked like it was from the disco era.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:54 pmNow THAT’s a MAVERICK!!! Who is that distorted faced bafoon from AZ again?
THIS SENATOR HAS A CLUE about the REAL dangers in Iraq! I could support this guy “if” he is running!
January 11th, 2007 at 3:55 pmWhat the heck is a Northeast Dilemma? Do I need to go use “The Google†to find out?
Comment by Exley — January 11, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
He was a troll how who got banned for being inflammatory.
January 11th, 2007 at 3:57 pmUS Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said that Iraqi PM Nouri Maliki is living “on borrowed time”, but that she is confident he can give Iraq security.
So the democraticly elected PM of Iraq will be removed from his position by an occupying force. That should sit well with the Iraqis, huh? What were all those purple fingers for if the US will take out anyone that it does not like? So Bush says we are bringing democracy to Iraq by threatening to removing elected officials form office. And our men and women are dying for this?
January 11th, 2007 at 3:58 pmIt would help that the opposition is bipartisan if opposition matter to Heir Bush. He will do whatever he pleases regardless of what anyone else does or does not say.
The only hope is that we’ll get enough Republicans to vote for Impeachment…
January 11th, 2007 at 4:00 pmThanks for the clarification, Jane. Yeah, I wasn’t around when this “Northeast Dilemma” guy was posting.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:00 pmHey Wayne, sorry about the thrashing the Pats put on the Jets last weekend. Good season for you guys though — 10-6 is not too shabby. Mangini’s a good coach.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:01 pmWeren’t you at one point saying you lived in Sweden or something?
Anyway, your whole post is basically a load of kack born of your short memory, or more accurately, your selective memory. Whenever you want to make the Democrats look weak; you point out how they “Caved” and voted for something Bush wanted. Whenever you want to make them look unreasonable, you suddenly forget all about that.
Meanwhile what we remember is Kerry trying to say sorry for believing Bush and backing the invasion of Iraq in the first place. Indeed a lot of Democrats have since taken that line. What we remember is how Bill Clinton, on the scene of 9/11, said Americans must support the president. We recognise basically, that Democrats can be wrong too.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:02 pmSo the democraticly elected PM of Iraq will be removed from his position by an occupying force.
Comment by dlet — January 11, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
If we did it to them once, why wouldn’t we do it again?
With our country having a sour history of overthrowing sovereign leaders to install US-friendly dictators Maliki should be concerned. The American Empire will stop at nothing…
January 11th, 2007 at 4:02 pmwhat is going on with the Paulson-Wanta plan?
January 11th, 2007 at 4:05 pmAn important fact that TP didn’t point out was that in this poll, the results were:
70% Against Escalation
25% For Escalation
4% Not Sure
No need to refer to them as 30%ers anymore. THey are now the 25%ers.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
So Spudge, if I can quote a poll that shows 70% of the people are against unrestricted abortion, does that mean you will agree that more limits should be put on abortions?
January 11th, 2007 at 4:06 pmCynicon,
Jane and I are looking forward to next season, but now it’s time to start gearing up for the NY Mets! Football is over. May the best te…who cares?
January 11th, 2007 at 4:06 pmBruce…Nope. Never lived in Sweden. Never said I lived in Sweden. I think that was some poster who always wrote about global warming. I don’t remember his or her name.
I am a native New Yorker. I don’t live in NY anymore, but I am still in the Mid-Atlantic region.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:08 pmSo Spudge, if I can quote a poll that shows 70% of the people are against unrestricted abortion, does that mean you will agree that more limits should be put on abortions?
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Last time I checked there are limits on abortion. What’s your point again?
January 11th, 2007 at 4:09 pmWayne, you and Jane (and Exley)need to root for the Pats to win this weekend so we get to see Belichik get inside Payton’s head again!
January 11th, 2007 at 4:11 pm“But, hey, I’m just a New York liberal, so what do I know?” Wayne
“But, hey, I’m just a New York conservative, so what do I know?” Exley
Well shit, I know that you both are in New York and I’m jealous. My wife and I love New York City and one day would like to be able to retire there. Unfortunately it seems that we can only make short visits for now and need a big lotto win to actually move. (Okay you both didn’t say New York City but damn your alot closer than I am!)
January 11th, 2007 at 4:12 pm94 — dlet, my point is that quoting polls is silly when talking about certain subjects.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:13 pmWayne,
I live in Seattle, and the Seahawks were given a get out of jail free card in the last game. The cowboys snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. this card may not work in the upcoming bears game, but at least the season ain’t over yet.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:17 pm#88, Bruce, it was Siexon (sp?) that was supposedly from Sweden.
Krazny, I was rooting for the Seahawks to eliminate Dallas, good luck for the rest of the season.
Yikes, Wayne and I are about 50 miles north of NYC - close enough for me to drive to Shea Stadium, anyway!
Cynicon, I’m way ahead of you with the Pats–when the NY teams go down each year (as is their wont), I root for NE as a substitute.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:27 pmYikes, I understand what you are saying. NYC is the greatest city in the world. Was home visiting family for the holidays and realized how much I miss it.
Cynicon, I can’t do it. I just can’t root for Belechik (He screwed the Jets when he left us high and dry without a head coach. Those three Super Bowl championships belong to us!)….I have no real dog in the NFL hunt anymore. I kinda am rooting for Baltimore, San Diego, and Chicago to get as far as they can. But I am not real passionate about it. (I do hate Peyton Manning though)
Like Wayne said, we are just counting down the days until the Mets open spring training camp.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:27 pm“So Spudge, if I can quote a poll that shows 70% of the people are against unrestricted abortion, does that mean you will agree that more limits should be put on abortions? Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 11, 2007 @ 4:06 pm”
Considering we already have restrictions on abortions, for very late term - this makes sense. After all, who would agree to an abortion on an 8 month old fetus that can breathe, and function outside the womb. So a poll like this is both disingenuous, meaningless and ambiguous, much like your sexuality. So why don’t you do the world a favor, and stop burping out your a$$ from your head being stuck up there - and STFU you idiot.
You could also do everyone a favor, and take your *obsession* with *fetuses* and leave that for your internet porn fantasies you stupid freak. The topic is how you dumba$$e$ didn’t learn squat from vietnam. Considering how few of you idiots served there - it’s no doubt this comes from ignorance and stupidity. A dangerous cocktail for a *short-bus* idiot like yourself.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:30 pmI have concerns on the response to Bush’s speech last night, including Sen. Hagel’s line of questioning here.
All of the heat is focused on the troop increase number, 21,500, while the true story lies elsewhere.
Even with the increase in troops their number will still be below where it was a year ago. Did that stop the killing? Of course not.
More likely, these troops are there for support of moves against Iran and Syria in the next months. Deception is a tactic of war for as long as wars have been fought. And that deception in suckering the Iraq war critics into focusing on the wrong elements of the speech.
Let’s focus more closely on what Bush said in relation to Syria and especially Iran. We did today attack an Iranian facility in the Kurdish area of Iraq and take computers and other documentation. Most people would consider this an act of war. Is Bush trying to sucker Iran into a hot war?
January 11th, 2007 at 4:35 pm#101 Jane, and in two years you will be driving to Citi Field! (Although it will always be Shea to me).
January 11th, 2007 at 4:42 pmMaybe Hagel can lead the GOP delegation to the White House that introduces Bush to reality, a la Nixon.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:48 pm#105, you know, I wouldn’t mind it so much if it was City Field, but Citi? Yuch!
Everyone else, sorry about being off-topic for so long.
January 11th, 2007 at 4:49 pmThat reminds me of the fact that the most loyal Bush supporters are Nascar, football or baseball fans. Who cares about the world when there is a game on?
January 11th, 2007 at 4:53 pmSick, sick, sick.
Oh well, it’s still just bread and games.
Seixon claimed he was from Norway. He stopped posting after we continually pointed out that he must be pulling all-nighters with the time differrential…he claimed to have just gotten in from a movie with a friend..at what would have been 4 a.m. in Norway…
Back on topic…it is heartening to see a Republican speak out against the escalation. We need to keep our kids from dying in a war that never should have been started in the first place.
January 11th, 2007 at 5:06 pmNYC is the greatest city in the world.
January 11th, 2007 at 5:07 pmComment by Exley
Do you have a link to support that?
Juan,
http://www.nycisthegreatestcityintheworld.com
January 11th, 2007 at 5:13 pmThere You go:
January 11th, 2007 at 5:16 pmA quarter of a billion dollar for a soccer player.
People are starving, can’t afford healthcare.
Survival of the fittest, huh?
http://www.nycisthegreatestcityintheworld.com
Comment by Exley
Honestly, that was funny. :)
January 11th, 2007 at 5:28 pmBut as almost all of your claims about almost everything, they are all personal opinions, such as this one, not a goddamn fact.
#100 - Spudge_Boy,
January 11th, 2007 at 5:30 pmOne thing that has intrigued me since I was about seven years old is why, when I first view the word “hypocrite” my first reaction is it is misspelled. The ‘hypo’ part fits into the ‘hypodermic’ region of my mind - Mom was diabetic. By the bye, you dropped an ‘e’ in hypocrite.
#102 – Exley,
Amsterdam is the best city on Earth – nowhere else can you experience fresh green herring (in the spring – the flesh was still twitching).
Unlike Republicans, I don’t have an opinion on abortion, because as a male I don’t have a uterus. Comment by Spudge_Boy
January 11th, 2007 at 5:31 pmFantastic answer.
Cynicon: “So Spudge, if I can quote a poll that shows 70% of the people are against unrestricted abortion, does that mean you will agree that more limits should be put on abortions?”
Why don’t you try to find a poll that shows 70% of the people in favor of forcing women to carry a baby to term against their will.
January 11th, 2007 at 5:32 pmAmsterdam is the best city on Earth – nowhere else can you experience fresh green herring (in the spring –the flesh was still twitching).
January 11th, 2007 at 5:36 pmComment by WaltTheMan
I dont know much. But I would spend my days in a little beach called Nexpa in Michoacán.
Dear Mr. President: Send Even MORE Troops (and you go, too!) …from Michael Moore
1/10/07
Dear Mr. President,
Thanks for your address to the nation. It’s good to know you still want to talk to us after how we behaved in November.
Listen, can I be frank? Sending in 20,000 more troops just ain’t gonna do the job. That will only bring the troop level back up to what it was last year. And we were losing the war last year! We’ve already had over a million troops serve some time in Iraq since 2003. Another few thousand is simply not enough to find those weapons of mass destruction! Er, I mean… bringing those responsible for 9/11 to justice! Um, scratch that. Try this — BRING DEMOCRACY TO THE MIDDLE EAST! YES!!!
You’ve got to show some courage, dude! You’ve got to win this one! C’mon, you got Saddam! You hung ‘im high! I loved watching the video of that — just like the old wild west! The bad guy wore black! The hangmen were as crazy as the hangee! Lynch mobs rule!!!
Look, I have to admit I feel very sorry for the predicament you’re in. As Ricky Bobby said, “If you’re not first, you’re last.” And you being humiliated in front of the whole world does NONE of us Americans any good.
Sir, listen to me. You have to send in MILLIONS of troops to Iraq, not thousands! The only way to lick this thing now is to flood Iraq with millions of us! I know that you’re out of combat-ready soldiers — so you have to look elsewhere! The only way you are going to beat a nation of 27 million — Iraq — is to send in at least 28 million! Here’s how it would work:
The first 27 million Americans go in and kill one Iraqi each. That will quickly take care of any insurgency. The other one million of us will stay and rebuild the country. Simple.
Now, I know you’re saying, where will I find 28 million Americans to go to Iraq? Here are some suggestions:
1. More than 62,000,000 Americans voted for you in the last election (the one that took place a year and half into a war we already knew we were losing). I am confident that at least a third of them would want to put their body where there vote was and sign up to volunteer. I know many of these people and, while we may disagree politically, I know that they don’t believe someone else should have to go and fight their fight for them — while they hide here in America.
2. Start a “Kill an Iraqi” Meet-Up group in cities across the country. I know this idea is so early-21st century, but I once went to a Lou Dobbs Meet-Up and, I swear, some of the best ideas happen after the third mojito. I’m sure you’ll get another five million or so enlistees from this effort.
3. Send over all members of the mainstream media. After all, they were your collaborators in bringing us this war — and many of them are already trained from having been “embedded!” If that doesn’t bring the total to 28 million, then draft all viewers of the FOX News channel.
Mr. Bush, do not give up! Now is not the time to pull your punch! Don’t be a weenie by sending in a few over-tired troops. Get your people behind you and YOU lead them in like a true commander in chief! Leave no conservative behind! Full speed ahead!
We promise to write. Go get ‘em W!
Yours,
Michael Moore
January 11th, 2007 at 5:40 pmmmflint@aol.com
http://www.michaelmoore.com
Unlike Republicans, I do have an opinion on abortion. Barbara should have aborted about December 25, 1945. What a true Christmas gift for about three million people who would otherwise be alive or unmaimed today.
January 11th, 2007 at 5:43 pmWalt,
If it wasn’t George, it would have been Jeb, or Neil or one of the others who isn’t serving a prison term.
January 11th, 2007 at 5:45 pmAre you suggesting that we all be good germans and shut up?
Absofrigginlutely not. But the debate shouldn’t be over whether Bush should escalate the war at this point: he already HAS. The debate should be over whether he broke the law to escalate the war.
January 11th, 2007 at 5:46 pmFYI, #57: Lieberman’s not a Dem. He’s a neo-con disguised as an Independent. And the reason he’s liked in CT is because he brings home the bacon; not because of his Zionist, hawkish tendencies.
January 11th, 2007 at 5:49 pm#118
read that on his sight. sweeeet
January 11th, 2007 at 5:53 pmhey t.p. what happened to he post i sent before this one? why didn’t that make the thread
January 11th, 2007 at 5:55 pmJoshua Marshall pointed out Bush’s contradiction and a good reason to call bullshit on the guy (as if we needed another one):
According to Bush, defeat is not acceptable in Iraq. Okay, heard that before. We can’t leave before victory is achieved. Check.
But the logic of the ’surge’ is that we’re also cracking down on Maliki. We’re giving him one more chance to get it right. And if they won’t do their part, we’re outta there. Or in other words, we pull up stakes without acheiving victory.
But President Bush’s oft-restated promise to stay in Iraq forever sort of gives Maliki the wink-n-nod that it doesn’t really matter what he does. We’re staying regardless.
So the whole thing is silly and makes no sense in the the simplest logical terms.
So, are we staying forever or are we leaving at some point whether or not Maliki’s got it together? If we’re staying until Maliki’s ready to take over, we’re staying forever.
January 11th, 2007 at 6:05 pm[…] Chuck Hagel expressing what has been obvious to so many for so long. Story is here […]
January 11th, 2007 at 6:06 pmNeo-Con, another way of saying Israel’s interests outweigh my allegiance to America and our interests. Right Judd?
January 11th, 2007 at 6:33 pmChuck Hagel is the greatest!
January 11th, 2007 at 6:42 pmOkay, I wander off for a month or two and you’ve all gone soft on me - especially you New Yorkers. Football season isn’t over until George Halas says its over.
Or until they put another Bears’ defensive lineman under house arrest.
The thing is, of course Hagel is right, and of course it’s nice to know there are some folks who think independently, but isn’t it all a bit too late? Let’s face it, the “surge” is nothing more than a tacit admission that we’ve lost in Iraq. It’s Bush saying that we are losing the war now (hence the need for more troops), but we’re unwilling or unable to put in enough troops to win (hence the relatively small number of troops being added).
Not that putting 22,000 more Americans in harm’s way is a good thing - in fact, it’s an awful idea - but we all know that number will do nothing (other than, of course, add to the casualty figures). So, Bush is just giving up on the war he started?
I don’t want the guy impeached; I want him and Cheney to take a little responsibility for their mistakes and resign, like any employee with a conscience would.
Then, if the Justice Department wants to seek indictments against them … so be it.
But the least Bush and Cheney could do is acknowledge that they’ve screwed up horribly, that they have no ide how to fix the mess they’ve created, and there’s nothing else they can do but to resign.
Nothing short of that would be acceptable to me (not like you asked or anything … I’m just sayin’).
Oh, and GO BEARS!!!
January 11th, 2007 at 6:42 pmI think the Seahawks got jobbed in the Superbowl last year. I’d like to see them beat the Bears and go all the way, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. But, this year, I do think the Bears are over-rated. That QB is bad news.
January 11th, 2007 at 6:58 pmAt least one general isn’t afraid to speak his mind:
January 11th, 2007 at 8:31 pmhttp://www.mysanantonio.com/ specials/ battlefield/ stories/ MYSA011107.01A.looney.Iraq.3555464.html
Unlike Republicans, I do have an opinion on abortion. Barbara should have aborted about December 25, 1945. What a true Christmas gift for about three million people who would otherwise be alive or unmaimed today.
Comment by WaltTheMan — J
Last month I was sent by a visual by a friend who calls himself “somewhat conservative” but who isn’t fond of the current president. It was a photo of George Bush Sr. with his arm on Jr.’s shoulder, with the caption, “Son, you’re making the same mistake with Iraq that I did with your mother: not pulling out sooner.”
January 11th, 2007 at 10:04 pmIraq is not Vietnam, George Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam!!
January 11th, 2007 at 10:31 pmIraq is not Vietnam, George Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam!!
Comment by Doctor Lock
Another excellent one.
January 11th, 2007 at 11:21 pm#
Amsterdam is the best city on Earth – nowhere else can you experience fresh green herring (in the spring –the flesh was still twitching).
Comment by WaltTheMan
I dont know much. But I would spend my days in a little beach called Nexpa in Michoacán.
Comment by Juan C — January 11, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
I’ll take NOLA, beautiful French Quarter New Orleans…
January 11th, 2007 at 11:43 pmBTW Juan - quien parte de Mexico?
January 11th, 2007 at 11:44 pmErm, the iPhone wasn’t shown at CES. It was shown at the Macworld Expo. You have no credibility and you should be embarrassed.
January 12th, 2007 at 12:27 amIt’s time for a national march on Washington specifically to demand impeachment.
Go here for more info: http://marchtoimpeach.blogspot.com/
January 12th, 2007 at 1:08 amIt’s time for a national march on Washington to demand impeachment.
More info at http://marchtoimpeach.blogspot.com/.
January 12th, 2007 at 1:08 amAbolish the Federal Reserve Bank! The root of all evil.
Why do you think we have the Iraq war?
Oil… maybe…
Wars cost money lots of money.
Who prints $? Federal Reserve does.
Who charges interest on the printed $? Federal Reserve does.
Who pays this interest? We do, with our federal income tax.
Who owns the Federal Reserve Bank? Big PRIVATE banks who doesn’t give a crap about the American people!
Hello! Wakeup people!
January 12th, 2007 at 6:30 amYou know - the record of many third world countries post-independence hasn’t been great. Socially and economically, there’s been too many hoops to jump thru, and a deck of cards stacked mightily against them.
However, in all cases where they fought for independence they have ALWAYS won. The history of the 20th century shows that you can’t fight a people that doesn’t want to be occupied. Having fought the sunnis, you want to carry the war to the shites.
You’ve lost - but so have the British, French, Germans, Japanese in the past, so you’re in good company.
January 12th, 2007 at 10:54 am140
thank you. i’ve been screaming about the rothchilds,1913 federal reserve act, morgans , duponts, rockefellers since posting her. they all have there hands in the f. bank. it is owned by the rothchilds who own america and it’s money. along with the media.
folks are caught up on bush and it is bigger than he and the above players are the ones that need to be brought down. once the head of the octopus gets chopped off the rest of the players will graduall die.
January 12th, 2007 at 12:24 pmnot only do big banks own fed. reserve. but the post earlier will mention the players that own the handful of banks that than own the federal reserve. even though it’s not ‘really’ know who does but FOLLOW THE MONEY AND IT WILL LEAD THERE. the rothchilds must be brought down.
THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS NO MORE FEDERAL THAN THE FEDERAL EXPRESS.
INCOME TAX ON AMERICAS LABOR IS ILLEGAL FOLKS. THERE IS NO LAW IN TAX LAW OR CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS IT IS OK. IT WAS FOR TAXING THE GOODS THE CORPORATIONS SELL. FOLKS WHO DO YOU THINK RUNS THE CREDIT CARD BUSINESS? THOSE PRICKS DO NOT PAY INTEREST BECAUSE THEY OWN THE BANK AND MONEY. THE INTEREST YOU PAY, INCOME TAX IS GOING STRAIGHT INTO THEIR POCKETS. FOLKS THEY F. YOU WHILE YOU WERE LOOKING AT THEM AND STILL BENT OVER TO TAKE THE ABUSE.
WAKE UP AND START PUSHING FOR THE ABOLISHMENT OF THE 1913 FED. RESERVE ACT.
January 12th, 2007 at 12:30 pmIt’s about time the senate stand up for the truth. I wish they had this mindset before they authorized the war.
January 14th, 2007 at 1:16 amAfter searching for more extended transcripts of the Senate Foreign Relations committee 1/11/2007, and not finding a full set, I’ve started transcribing some. Look at
http://boborojoview.blogspot.com/
I’m new to blogging and am trying to publish, but have not seen them come up in the search engine yet so I’m really not sure if they are published or not. Check it out! So far: Rice answers the questions of Sen. Biden, Voinovich, and Nelson, still working on more.
boborojo.
January 17th, 2007 at 7:41 pmBUSH is a quack and needs to go away, far, far, away.
January 24th, 2007 at 9:04 pmI never thought I’d miss Nixon.
I hate BUSH.