ThinkFast: January 16, 2007
ThinkFast: January 16, 2007
“There is almost no scientific evidence to back up the U.S. intelligence community’s use of controversial interrogation techniques in the fight against terrorism, and experts believe some painful and coercive approaches could hinder the ability to get good information, according to a new report from an intelligence advisory group.”
“The U.S. military has sold forbidden equipment at least a half-dozen times to middlemen for countries — including Iran and China — who exploited security flaws in the Defense Department’s surplus auctions,” the AP reports.
A “much-anticipated” inspector general report to Congress will allege that Interior Department officials “covered up” a problem with oil and gas leases that cost the treasury up to $10 billion. The report “also has been investigating whether Johnnie Burton, head of the agency that collects royalties, might have been told about the problem earlier than she said in congressional testimony last fall.”
“Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, said in an interview that Taliban attacks surged by 200 percent in December, and a U.S. military intelligence officer said that since the peace deal went into effect Sept. 5 the number of attacks in the border area has grown by 300 percent.”
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice “conveniently ignored Egypt’s internal problems during her visit, which include charges of corruption and torture, to name a few. Rice basically thanked Egypt for its cooperation in the region making it clear that, for the United States, ‘stability, not democracy‘ is the priority.”
NASA’s earth science budget has declined 30 percent since 2000, and the cuts have hindered the “government’s ability to understand and predict hurricanes, drought and climate changes of all kinds.”
34,452: Number of Iraqi civilians killed in 2006, according to the United Nations. More than 36,000 Iraqi civilians were wounded last year.
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and ten other senators today plan to introduce the Global Warming Pollution Reduction Act. The bill “would reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 1990 levels by 2020 and by 2050 require an 80 percent reduction in greenhouse gases over the 1990 level.”
Rebellion is brewing among conservatives over President’s Bush’s attempt to “impose” Sen. Mel Martinez (R-FL) as “general chairman” of his political party due to Martinez’s support for “amnesty” for illegal aliens.
Under an ethics reform proposal the House is likely to take up and pass this week, “lawmakers who commit crimes in office may no longer be able to rely on a federal pension to pad their fall from grace.”
Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and others argue the Bush administration is “using a little-noticed clause in the Patriot Act to circumvent Senate confirmation” of federal U.S. attorneys. Senators are working to overturn the provision, which “for the first time gave the attorney general, rather than local federal courts, authority to appoint interim U.S. attorneys.”
And finally: The Decider still really likes making decisions. In his interview with 60 minutes, President Bush said “decision” twenty-four times in nine minutes. The chart here “shows how often he said the word during each of the interview’s nine minutes, including two times when he practically shouted it.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
What did we miss?
Well, there is that insignificant story about Scooter’s trial!
January 16th, 2007 at 9:05 amFrom Firedog Lake
Or, how about this story?
Major investment bank issues warning on strike against Iran.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:08 amBUSH STILL AFTER OIL – Iraqis will never accept this sellout to the oil corporations
January 16th, 2007 at 9:09 amBritish troops may leave within a year, says Iraqi Vice-President
British troops could withdraw from Iraq within a year provided the Iraqi armed forces are reformed, says the country’s Vice President.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:09 am“There is almost no scientific evidence to back up the U.S. intelligence community’s use of controversial interrogation techniques…”
January 16th, 2007 at 9:13 amBut it’s Sooooooo politically Sexy, right GW?
If you need any more proof that the BBC is part of the MSM this morning on the news hour show during a story about irving scooter libby’s perjury trial BBC correspondent james kumarasami used the phrase “distinguished journalist” to describe the republican hack and traitor robert novack. Two sentences later he flogged the gop myth that richard armitage let Valerie Plame’s name slip as part of some aw shucks DC gossiping.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:22 am34,452: Number of Iraqi civilians killed in 2006, according to the United Nations. More than 36,000 Iraqi civilians were wounded last year.
So, if last year was the bloodiest year in Iraq and 34,452 civilians were killed, then using that number as a baseline for each year that comes to a total of 137,808. While that is too many, it is a far cry from 650,000.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:24 amOFF TOPIC:
During last night’s Golden Globes telecast during Peter Morgan’s acceptance speech (screenwriting award for “The Queen”) he started to talk about how as citizens we must protest our leaders and stand up for what is right — and suddenly he was told from offstage to cut his speech short. Does Chimpie wield that much power in this country that when someone gets the least bit critical of our gov’t — he is whisked off the stage.
Peter Morgan initially started to talk about how the people of England protested together to get The Queen to make a speech about Diana’s death. And before Peter was cut short — he started to make refernce to this country and what’s happening today.
Did anyone else notice this also from last night. All the other speeches seemed lengthy and not prompted to cease.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:28 amKay,
January 16th, 2007 at 9:30 amI recorded it to watch today.
I’ll certainly be on the look-out.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice “conveniently ignored Egypt’s internal problems during her visit, which include charges of corruption and torture, to name a few.
How could she hold another country accountable to these transgressions when this administration has done and continues to do these same acts. To her they probably seem like a blossoming New American Democracy.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:35 am34,452: Number of Iraqi civilians killed in 2006, according to the United Nations. More than 36,000 Iraqi civilians were wounded last year.
This figure is from the Morgues in Baghdad
This does not include people who just bury their dead straight away unnoficailly
Or does it include hospital patience dying because American soldiers have thrown a grenade in the drug unit , denying patients of the most basic drug like Asthma pumps etc etc etc
Nor does it include American Tanks deliberately Attacking chemist shops in the high streets and destroying simple presecription drugs
Nor does it include Babies dying in Incubators that have been smashed up by American troops
The Americans are deliberately making life hard for iraqis trying to get them to sign oil contracts
January 16th, 2007 at 9:38 amO.T.
Has anyone else seen this?
Dead Elephants
It’s a huffpo site that you can print bumperstickers.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:43 amSecretary of State Condoleezza Rice “conveniently ignored Egypt’s internal problems during her visit to Egypt…”
Was she able to buy any fancy Egyptian shoes? That’s the real question here. The stress of being Secretary of Shoes must be unbearable. OMG, all those meetings, travel, Stately functions must be grueling and one must have the proper shoes to at least appear to be a Diplomat. Screw the real issues, get me some new pumps!
January 16th, 2007 at 9:44 am“There is almost no scientific evidence to back up the U.S. intelligence community’s use of controversial interrogation techniques in the fight against terrorism, and experts believe some painful and coercive approaches could hinder the ability to get good information, according to a new report from an intelligence advisory group.â€
This is nothing new. Physical torture has never been a reliable means of extracting information. It is, however, a very reliable means of instilling terror.
That’s what all this torture is all about…to drive home the point, both to the rest of the world, and to us right here in the USA, that this administration can – and will – do whatever it likes, without restraint or consequence, and you can either suck up to them, or try to stay out of their way. Opposition will not be tolerated.
Hitler would be envious at what this administration has managed to accomplish in such a short time.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:47 amBlair is a MASS Murderer,
I am glad you know, for a fact, what American troops are doing over there and their reasons for doing it. When was the last time you were there? When was the last time you talked to someone serving over there? When was the last time you backed up these claims with substantiated facts and not anecdotal evidence?
January 16th, 2007 at 9:48 am“There is almost no scientific evidence to back up the U.S. intelligence community’s use of controversial interrogation techniques in the fight against terrorism, and experts believe some painful and coercive approaches could hinder the ability to get good information, according to a new report from an intelligence advisory group.â€
A new report? Gods. As if it were an unknown fact until now.
“The U.S. military has sold forbidden equipment at least a half-dozen times to middlemen for countries — including Iran and China — who exploited security flaws in the Defense Department’s surplus auctions,†the AP reports.
Corporate greed and military corruption are now called “security flaws” in neospeak?
NASA’s earth science budget has declined 30 percent since 2000, and the cuts have hindered the “government’s ability to understand and predict hurricanes, drought and climate changes of all kinds.â€
There is part of the plan “No Hurricane Left Out Of Our Shores”. There is also a report of the PNAC showing that a correctly managed (by Haliburton, in a no bid contract) tropical hurricane can clear the brush from Mexico City to Montreal to facilitate the construcion of the panamerican highway.
January 16th, 2007 at 9:52 amRobert theres plenty eveidence I have posted in the post
American troops asking pupils to leave a classroom so it can be used as an observation point the techer refused so American troops threw a grenade in the classroom killing two teachers and 7 children
This is the reason the insurgency started
There have been many claims of Americans destroying vital drugs in hospitals and drug stores thoughtout the country AS SEEN ON TELE on despatches in the UK
January 16th, 2007 at 9:55 am*bush, not brush
January 16th, 2007 at 9:56 amBlair is a MASS Murderer:
Could you please post a few links corroborating these claims?
TIA,
TMM
January 16th, 2007 at 9:58 amBut of course Robert you know this as your a recruiter for the army and now your consience is tearing your heart out and no matter how you look at things in your tiny mind – YOU ARE GUILTY OF AID AND ABETTING IN THE MURDER OF IRAQI AND AMERICANS ALL FOR A SMALL BONUS IN BLOOD MONEY
January 16th, 2007 at 9:58 amROBERT,
Where’s your facts to back up your OPINION?
I do have friends serving in Iraq, how bout you?
They more or less feel the same as Blair is a MASS Murderer:
Their goals aren’t clear, there is a lack of attention, lack of seriousness, and basically, they mostly feel like THEY ARE JUST THERE TO PISS OF THE IRAQIS.
Go back to your Neocon Fieldguide for Dummies…
January 16th, 2007 at 9:59 amOr does it include hospital patience dying because American soldiers have thrown a grenade in the drug unit , denying patients of the most basic drug like Asthma pumps etc etc etc
Nor does it include American Tanks deliberately Attacking chemist shops in the high streets and destroying simple presecription drugs
Nor does it include Babies dying in Incubators that have been smashed up by American troops
—
Robert theres plenty eveidence I have posted in the post
Comment by Blair is a MASS Murderer
Forgive me, but mere statements are not evidence. Can you provide links to reputable news sources that can confirm these stories? One reason I want verification is because I heard similar stories more than fifteen years ago, before the first Gulf War. There were reports that Iraqi soldiers were killing babies in their incubators (sound familiar)? Turns out it wasn’t true. It also turned out that the alleged witness was actually the daughter of a diplomat, she had not witnessed anything, and she was hired to testify by a PR firm trying to build public support in America for military action. The lies worked.
Can you provide links to reputable sources to back up your statements? If not, please don’t post comments like that. Thank you.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:02 amWATCH THESE CLIPS OF BLAIR ON TRIAL ON TV TONIGHT UK
The Trial of Tony Blair
http://www.channel4.com/more4/drama/t/trial_tony/index.html
January 16th, 2007 at 10:03 amSo it’s official. We are not trying to set up a democracy. At least according to our Sec. of State.
I don’t agree with robert’s angle on the total number of deaths (as if the lesser number should be grieved for less) but these postings about US soldiers wanting to disrupt the transference of medicine to control the oil thing. You are going to have to do better than that.
Blair is a……., send some links to back up your statement. I’ve seen strange shit on the tele also but wouldn’t bring it here to use as fact.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:04 amRobert,
I was there, there for the invasion, there for the seizure of Baghdad. Did you know, that when we first invaded, the name given was Operation Iraqi Liberation? Till some genius realized the acronym was not the best and it was changed to Operation Iraqi Freedom.
I was there when we seized the crossed sabers parade ground, and went into the surrounding hospitals and raided all their medical supplies.
I was there when stacks of cash were found in the palaces.
I was there when the Iraqis that we had brought back to work refused to work another day till we paid them.
I was there when my friends died….
Where were you?
January 16th, 2007 at 10:06 amThe Fourth Geneva Convention lays down specific provisions on delivery of healthcare services.. “The occupying power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate,” Article 55 states.
Article 56 says: “The occupying power has the duty of ensuring and maintaining, with the cooperation of national and local authorities, the medical and hospital establishments and services, public health and hygiene in the occupied territory, with particular reference to the adoption and application of the prophylactic and preventive measures necessary to combat the spread of contagious diseases and epidemics. Medical personnel of all categories shall be allowed to carry out their duties.”
But the U.S. forces continue to target hospitals regardless. Dr. Qasim, who had come from al-Qa’im hospital to the Ramadi General Hospital to obtain medical supplies told IPS that the main hospital in al-Qa’im was targeted by occupation forces Nov. 7.
“On that day 40 percent of our hospital was wrecked and the doctors’ residency was completely smashed,” he said. “Then on the next day they continued with the other 60 percent of the hospital, including the emergency room and staff residency.”
January 16th, 2007 at 10:08 amLet’s get to the bottom of Johnnie Burton’s perjury and role in the loss of this 10 billion, huh?
Re: CondiCandi being in Egypt and speaking against corruption and torture – isn’t that truly a case of the pot calling the kettle black? She has zippo credibility to be Secretary of State, has no respect of world leaders who laugh at her right in her face, and will soon be a liability to this administration just like the rest of them. Whackos, illiterates, and crooks!
January 16th, 2007 at 10:09 amJanuary 15, 2007, 1:30 pm
Grumbling in the Ranks
Vocal opposition to President’s Bush’s strategy of sending more than 20,000 additional troops to help secure Iraq has grown to include some of the troops themselves.
A group of more than 50 active-duty military officers will deliver a petition to Congress on Tuesday signed by about 1,000 troops calling for an end to the U.S. occupation of Iraq. “Any troop increase over here will just produce more sitting ducks, more targets,†said Sergeant Ronn Cantu, who is serving in Iraq.
Under the 1988 Military Whistleblower Protection Act, active duty military, National Guard, and Reservists may communicate with any member of Congress without fear of reprisal, even if copies of the communication are sent to others.
Permalink | Trackback URL: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/01/15/grumbling-in-the-ranks/trackback/
January 16th, 2007 at 10:12 amBut of course Robert you know this as your a recruiter for the army and now your consience is tearing your heart out and no matter how you look at things in your tiny mind – YOU ARE GUILTY OF AID AND ABETTING IN THE MURDER OF IRAQI AND AMERICANS ALL FOR A SMALL BONUS IN BLOOD MONEY
Comment by Blair is a MASS Murderer
Actually I am an Active Duty Marine. I was a Recruiter until Feb 03, PCS to Camp Lejeune then deployed to Iraq shortly after.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:13 amGo back to your Neocon Fieldguide for Dummies…
January 16th, 2007 at 10:14 amComment by DieNowForPeace
robert has already make up his mind.
He thinks american soldiers are all over the world spreading democracy, freedom and hot dogs to poor kids. The history of this world after WWII (even before in Central America) says that there hasnt been a biggest threat to freedom than the US and there are huge amounts of evidence. Robert has not answered me about the claims made by the same generals and free trade thinkers that the reason the US has so many military bases overseas is to protect american corporation interests. He wont answer that cuz he knows it is the truth. Im not celebrating any stupid little victory in this debate. I am as sad as anyone with some common sense.
Can you provide links to reputable sources to back up your statements? If not, please don’t post comments like that. Thank you.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Sorry to butt in, but if anyone posts links, that is Tobey.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:15 amROBERT,
Where’s your facts to back up your OPINION?
I do have friends serving in Iraq, how bout you?
I have served 2 tours over there. My best friend is there now, as are many others that I know. My base is currently deploying units over there. People from my work section are going over soon. So, in answer to your question, Yes.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:16 amRobert,
I am glad that you serve. I wish that more of those that share you opinion did.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:17 amBlair is a MASS Murderer:
Not that I’m doubting, you , but we really do need to see those links….
January 16th, 2007 at 10:18 amWe don’t torture because it works. We torture because Dick and George get off on it.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:20 amRobert,
I was there, there for the invasion, there for the seizure of Baghdad. Did you know, that when we first invaded, the name given was Operation Iraqi Liberation? Till some genius realized the acronym was not the best and it was changed to Operation Iraqi Freedom.
I was there shortly after the Invasion. Got there late. Joined up with TF Pegasus. I stayed through the first retrograde.
I was there when we seized the crossed sabers parade ground, and went into the surrounding hospitals and raided all their medical supplies.
Did you deny anyone medical treatment? If so, you are a war criminal.
I was there when stacks of cash were found in the palaces.
I was there when the Iraqis that we had brought back to work refused to work another day till we paid them.
I dealt with things like that too, and not just Iraqis, but all the TCNs.
I was there when my friends died….
As was I.
Where were you?
Hauling your 3 Bs (beans, bullets, and bandaids) for you. Then working in the COC during retrograde. I never once saw an order issued to harm civilians.
Comment by 19KVet
Thanks for your service.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:23 am#22 Good morning, Wayne…And good for you in demanding some — ANY — evidence of these absurd claims made by the oh-so-cleverly-named “Blair is a MASS Murderer.” It is nice to see that not every “progressive” automatically and reflexively accepts the tired old liberal stereotype that portrays the American military as murderers, rapists, and human rights abusers.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:25 amSo everyone is upset with robert, but Blair is a mass murderer makes spurious claims about US troops and all anyone says is, please provide links? That’s just shameful.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:28 amI fully expect the Bush administration (aka unitary executive) to claim that it is impossible to fix the oil royalties loophole that it deliberately created. Bush can wage war without provocation, open secret prisons, torture whomever he likes, imprison people without charges or evidence, and spy on Americans without warrant or court supervision, but he couldn’t order the removal of the “mission accomplished” banner and he can’t stop the oil companies from taking all the free oil they want.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:28 amExley, do you really put much emphasis on stereotypes?
January 16th, 2007 at 10:30 amI’m not upset with Robert! :)
I’m sure the Iraqi death toll is higher then reported, but I would like to see Blair is a Mass Murderer’s links. Thanks.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:32 amRice basically thanked Egypt for its cooperation in the region making it clear that, for the United States, ‘stability, not democracy‘ is the priority.â€
Can you buy nice shoes in Egypt?
Bitch.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:34 amFor the record, I have never denied that SOME in the US military do commit atrocities, but it is not the cultural norm.
The overwhelming majority of those that serve are doing so honorably. The overwhelming majority are disgusted by the extreme minority that commit these acts. But to paint the entire military with a broad brush because of the minority is irresponsible.
Juan C, Yes, we have so many bases overseas in order to protect US corporate interests, which in turn protect US financial interests, which in turn protects the US economy, which protects US jobs, which enable US citizens to be the most charitable in the world.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:34 amVideo footage shot by doctors shows a badly damage medical store in the Haditha hospital and damaged surgical theatres. The medical store contained medicine and equipment for all hospitals and medical centers in the west of Iraq. Staff and patients say the damage was carried out by “by violent and barbaric US soldiers.â€
January 16th, 2007 at 10:34 amDr. Ahmed, who also asked that only his first name be used because he feared US military reprisals, said: “The Americans shot out the lights in the front of our hospital. They prevented doctors from reaching the emergency unit at the hospital, and we quickly began to run out of supplies and much needed medications.â€[35] He also stated that several times Marines kept the physicians in the residence building, thereby intentionally prohibiting them from entering the hospital to treat patients.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:35 amHellinabucket….No. Personally, I don’t. But it does irritate me when I see so many (not all) posters here derogate our troops and label them war criminals and murderers.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:36 amWilco do you read? Blair……, was questioned right away about where are the links. What’s shameful is your selective ignorance.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:36 amExley, I agree with you. The soldiers have been given orders. Good ones, bad ones, ugly ones, acceptable and unacceptable ones. I don’t envy them. I question where those orders came from and the logic behind them. A soldier is told what to do. I’m after the ones giving the orders.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:39 am#43 “For the record, I have never denied that SOME in the US military do commit atrocities, but it is not the cultural norm.”
Well said, Robert. You could also point to the fact that those in the U.S. military who do conduct such illegal acts are arrested, prosecuted, and, if convicted, punished in accordance with the law of war and the Code of Military Justice.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:40 amNow that Bush has received his “mandate†from the American people (or the 60% that bothered to vote), we can expect more war crimes. Bombing hospitals, more than likely with patients and staff, will now become routine as Bush “stays the course,†that is attempts to defeat the indigenous Iraqi resistance called “terrorists†by the Bush Ministry of Disinformation.
Americans should be ashamed of these war crimes. But the fact is most people are hardly even aware they occur. Of course, this is no excuse, for as Nuremberg Trials demonstrated the German people were responsible for allowing their leaders to engage in war crimes and crimes against humanity. As Telford Taylor said in the opening statement of the Trials of War Criminals before the Nuremberg Military Tribunals under Control Council Law No.10 in 1946,
January 16th, 2007 at 10:42 amBlair and Juan C,
So, let me get your POV straight here,
If Something GOOD about US forces is said, it is propaganda, if something BAD is said, it is the truth?
Talk about skewing reality.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:42 amAmerican Peace Activists Confirm Iraqi Hospital Bombed
by Charles Hanley
AMMAN, Jordan – Bruised and bleeding, in need of medical care, the Americans stranded in Iraq’s western desert approached the mud-brick town and found the hospital destroyed by bombs.
“Why? Why?” a doctor demanded of them. “Why did you Americans bomb our children’s hospital?” Scores of Iraqi townspeople crowded around.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:43 amJuan C, Yes, we have so many bases overseas in order to protect US corporate interests, which in turn protect US financial interests, which in turn protects the US economy, which protects US jobs, which enable US citizens to be the most charitable in the world.
Comment by robert
What a load of BS. Tell that to all the people that have died due to your magnificent charity.
And Exley, still waiting for a non-Kissinger-speech proof that Contras were freedom fighters. Is incredible how you and robert, can claim moral superiority to decide when a country must be democratic and when it must not after all the wrong doings of your government.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:43 amBlair, sounds like you could have something. But nobody here will believe you until you provide links. Even after that many won’t believe you but the evidnece can be debated. Until then it’s just you telling a story.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:43 amNeed I mention Fallujah – war crimes and soldiers in the same sentence
January 16th, 2007 at 10:45 amJuan’s got a point. We tend to whip democracy where we want regardless of the people’s will.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:47 amSince the US military invasion and occupation of Iraq, Iraq’s health care system has deteriorated as a result of deliberate destruction by the US administration. The most vulnerable victims of this destruction are the Iraqi children, particularly children under the age of five.
Read this article Robert and this will easily make you understand the 650,000 murdered Iraqis
January 16th, 2007 at 10:51 amIs incredible how you and robert, can claim moral superiority to decide when a country must be democratic and when it must not after all the wrong doings of your government.
Comment by Juan C
To be fair, Juan, Robert is not in on the decision-making process as to whether or not a country ought to be a democracy.
Exley….whatever…
January 16th, 2007 at 10:51 amA conservative on this sight writes something disagreeable, everyone jumps down his/her throat. A “progressive” writes something similar, and it’s too often, “hey how about providing the link?” This does not help the prevaling belief that the left is anti-military. Blair accused our troops of killing children because they wouldn’t leave their classroom. That is an appalling accusation!
January 16th, 2007 at 10:52 amHellinaBucket, We agree… But what do you mean when you say you “are after the one giving the orders?” Does that mean you believe that U.S. commanders on the ground — platoon leaders, colonels, generals — are actually giving orders for troops “throw a grenade in the drug unit” for the direct purpose of denying patients of the most basic drug like Asthma pumps or for “American Tanks deliberately atacking chemist shops in the high streets and destroying simple presecription drugs” or for American troops to “smash up” baby incubators, as alleged by “Blair is a MASS Murderer?”
I am not accusing you (Personally, I doubt you believe that). I am just trying to clarify your position.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:52 amBlair,
Again, do I deny that these things happen? No, I do not. But it is not the US Military cultural norm.
Sometime, people do the wrong thing. Sometimes people do act criminally. There is no question about that. But guess what, sometimes, try as we might, something just goes wrong. A bomb goes astray, an innocent gets caught in a cross fire.
Juan C,
I personally do not care which country is a democracy. All I care about is that MY country remains a democratic republic. So you can take your moral superiority can shove it.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:53 amBlair, thanks for the 3 year old article with no supporting links.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:55 amTalk about skewing reality.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:56 amComment by robert
Ok, robert, whatever you say. You keep holding to your GI Joe toys and telling yourself that you are a charitable country NO MATTER the huge amount of evidence that it is not. And your forces, yeah, all of them follow the instruction of a corporate government since you took over the indians land. So, you are probably a nice guy who takes care of his family, but you work for a government whose only interest is to plunder the resources of other countries and isolate other powerful countries by putting puppet governments in key countries. I didnt invent this, Im not saying this so that you feel bad, Im saying this because it is true but if you want to live happily in your mediatic bubble, that is your choice. Again, US has the strongest, well-aware middle class in the world, yet it is the most misled and disinformed in the whole world…just look at Fox News and Exley´s opinion about Nicaragua and Chile, for example. Your media has convinced you that war is a sometimes a good thing: Kosovo and Iraq. The economy of the US is war based, therefore it has to find support from its people.
Juan C,
“Contras?” What the heck brought that up? Are we discussing Nicaragua? Well, in any case, the very fact that anti-communist/Sandinista candidate Violetta Chamorro was elected president of Nicaragua in 1990 in a free and fair election after the contras pressured the communist Ortega government into holding elections is evidence that the contras were indeed freedom fighters. It is really quite simple Juan. Nicaragua was a dictatorship under the communist Sandinistas. The people rebelled against this dictatorship, with some of them taking up arms against the dictators. The Sandinistas, armed by the USSR, tried to quell the rebellion, but were unable to. The result was that the contras were able to bring about free and fair elections that saw the Sandinistas tossed from power and Chamorro elected president.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:59 amTripmaster:
My response to your request awaits you on last evenings thread
January 16th, 2007 at 11:00 amRobert. I have a good friend who has been over there, he liked being there and wants desperately to go back. He said things are not as bad as the media presents them, but he was there in 2004. Also when he said things are not as bad as the media presents them he will with his next sentence discuss how he was ambushed or attacked at least once a day. He said their response to any ambush was to have the whole platoon open up on whatever buildings they suspected the fire came from. He said they killed a lot of people too. He also said that the only people who smile at them or seem to like them, and this was 2004, were the children because they handed out toys and candy to them. I had another friend who was there, but I can’t get him to tell me what he thinks because he was killed in March 2003. The same day as the Jessica Lynch ambush. He was listed as MIA for over a month, even though he and his whole squad were killed behind US lines. So there are my two personal experiences. In my small town there have been 60+ people sent to Iraq over the last few years. That is quite a few when you consider the population (4,000).
Of course one does not need to have any personal experiences in order to have an opinion on Iraq. Do you look at War supporters and ask them to back up their opinions with personal experience? If not, why the double standard? Or are you simply following the party line?
January 16th, 2007 at 11:01 amRobert. I have a good friend who has been over there, he liked being there and wants desperately to go back. He said things are not as bad as the media presents them, but he was there in 2004. Also when he said things are not as bad as the media presents them he will with his next sentence discuss how he was ambushed or attacked at least once a day. He said their response to any ambush was to have the whole platoon open up on whatever buildings they suspected the fire came from. He said they killed a lot of people too. He also said that the only people who smile at them or seem to like them, and this was 2004, were the children because they handed out toys and candy to them. I had another friend who was there, but I can’t get him to tell me what he thinks because he was killed in March 2003. The same day as the Jessica Lynch ambush. He was listed as MIA for over a month, even though he and his whole squad were killed behind US lines. So there are my two personal experiences. In my small town there have been 60+ people sent to Iraq over the last few years. That is quite a few when you consider the population (4,000).
Of course one does not need to have any personal experiences in order to have an opinion on Iraq. Do you look at War supporters and ask them to back up their opinions with personal experience? If not, why the double standard? Or are you simply following the party line?
January 16th, 2007 at 11:01 amBlair is a MASS Murderer,
The children that are suffering I do feel for. I hate the loss of every innocent life.
As I said, tragedies happen.
Here is a question. The Insurgents, are they guilty of war crimes too? After all, I thought that video taping and publishing photos of captured and beheaded civilians was against the Geneva Conventions as well. Or does that not apply to them. What about the Iraqis that they kill? What about the medical aid that they deny to Iraqi civilians? Good luck getting them in a court of law.
It is funny that Blair would like to go on and on about the US, but never once mention the other side.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:02 amBlair, thanks for the article. It’s damning if true. But it’s heavily biased. Seriously, worse than Fox. Please provide one more “mainstream.”
January 16th, 2007 at 11:02 amJuan C, Yes, we have so many bases overseas in order to protect US corporate interests, which in turn protect US financial interests, which in turn protects the US economy, which protects US jobs, which enable US citizens to be the most charitable in the world.
Comment by robert
Follow the logic trail. The US has bases to exploit a country and then the US gives the poor and expolited charity. Um, why do that. Isn’t that like welfare. Steal from the poor to give back a little to the poor. Please explain how you came to the conclusion that aiding American corporate interests to locate their factories in third world countries protects the US economy and american jobs.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:04 amTo be fair, Juan, Robert is not in on the decision-making process as to whether or not a country ought to be a democracy.
Comment by Zooey
I know, Zoo. Probably Im being unfair with him.
I apologize, robert.
All I care about is that MY country remains a democratic republic.
Comment by robert
But it is no longer a democratic republic, have you noticed that? You have as a president a person who is supported by barely 1/3 of your population. How does that fit into a democracy?
You can blame My Lai on half-educated, poor G.I.s out in a field not knowing who is going to shoot at them next. Then not knowing where they are, and so on. Yeah, okay, they can commit a massacre, so we can talk about how awful they are; what we can’t talk about is the guy sitting in the airconditioned offices who were plotting B-52 raids on villages and sending them out to carry these massacres, because
January 16th, 2007 at 11:08 amthose are nice folks like us. So that part is not discussed. This is pretty typical. Actually, Abu Ghraib is not so different. It was horrible, but look who they’re going after: people who are part of what amounts to a mercenary army that is disadvantaged. Yeah, they were sent out there. They were brainwashed into thinking they’re getting revenge for 9/11 or something, and they did some pretty horrible things. But the people who are organizing and carrying out the atrocities, they’re immune. I mean, there are principles here. There was a Nuremburg Tribunal, which established very explicitly that the supreme crime is aggression, and that crime includes all of the evil that is contained in it as a consequence, no matter who it’s done by.
In Blair’s defense goto Iraqslogger.com and look up: Killer Errors: Iraqi Healthcare Fiasco. Instead of a 3 year old report this was made 8 days ago and is extensive.
Robert, the level at which corruption is going on is at a massive scale. No tax payer should allow this.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:13 amThe Insurgents, are they guilty of war crimes too?
January 16th, 2007 at 11:15 amComment by robert
Of course, they are if they kill civilians and commit other crimes, which they are doing. But the question is: would some of your soldiers and those insurgents be doing atrocities if there wasnt a war in Iraq? WE can talk about consequences, but the issues that matter is the causes.
Hello Exley, I am after the decision makers who actually thought this invasion was a good idea. Orders at troop level have a different dynamic than the ones that were thought out at Camp David or in Crawford. Militarily speaking this was not thought out well.
Who pushed the idea(s) that under 200,000 troops would be needed?
Who sold us on the oil revenues would pay for this?
who whipped us all into a frenzy over WMD’s (mushroom clouds)
and on and on and on…
The soldiers execute orders. They don’t create them.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:19 amBut it is no longer a democratic republic, have you noticed that? You have as a president a person who is supported by barely 1/3 of your population. How does that fit into a democracy?
The people spoke on Nov 7th. They put faith in the people they elected to do something. If they don’t, then they will go bye bye as well. That is the big misconception. The US is NOT a democracy, it is a Representative Republic. We have to count on our representatives to do something.
BTW, no apologies necessary.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:19 amI’ll also add this Exley, I do question brigade and higher military authorities.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:19 amOf course, they are if they kill civilians and commit other crimes, which they are doing. But the question is: would some of your soldiers and those insurgents be doing atrocities if there wasnt a war in Iraq? WE can talk about consequences, but the issues that matter is the causes.
So, it is the ADMINISTRATION that sent the soldiers to war and that created the insurgency that you need to go after, not the Military as a whole. Again, I am against anyone commiting war crimes. Any one found guilty of such should face the maximum punishment available.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:23 amRobert, the level at which corruption is going on is at a massive scale. No tax payer should allow this.
Comment by hellinabucket
That, I agree with. Talk to your Representatives and Senators.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:24 amComment by Exley
January 16th, 2007 at 11:27 amSorry for my off topic. If you think that that happened, ok. Negroponte is a good guy that financed Contras with the drug smuggled from Columbia and sold in the black slums of US cities. Contras didnt kill nuns, teachers and children. Those were sandinistas who wanted a communist dictatorship and hated religion. They, and not Contras who were educated folks trained by argentinian military men, placed the heads of civilians along the roadside to warn the general population. Right.
ace,
I have responded to your response.
Thanks.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:31 amRobert, yes the insurgents are guilty of crimes, however we should never measure our behavior based on not being quite as bad as our opposition. When we start to do that we lose a little bit more of what used to make us America.
Are the crimes committed by US troops relatively few and far between? Yes they are, but we are supposed to be the good guys who don’t do those things, that’s why they get magnified so much when they occur. Airplane crashes are few and far between, but we focus on them when they occur, we tend to ignore the hundreds of thousands of flights that take off and land safely each day. But when we focus on the crash we can sometimes blanket a whole airline as being unsafe as a result of one crash. Why? Because through the process of investigation we find that procedures have laid the ground work for more potential crashes. The atrocities also get magnified when there occasionally appears to be an element of cover-up involved, again it is not supposed to be in our national character. But then again torture is not supposed to be in our national character either, yet we have an administration that refuses to define torture and a president who simply says when we do it it is not illegal. Somehow these things seep into our national character. You and others claim that there are atrocities committed, have you called a spade a spade in the past? Or have you desperately defended the troops from all comers?
Wilco, you are bemoaning the response to Blair… I interpret the show me the links the same as I interpret the Show me the links when a right winger posts some far out “factoidal” information here. The ones who get ganged up on are the ones who toss out “factoids” then never back them up, or who produce information that has been proven false, yet stand by it till the death.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:37 amRobert, I have been contacting them and will continue to do so. You made a strong point in #77. It is the administration I have the issues with.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:39 am“Blair is a MASS Murderer”, EVIDENCE would be nice…
NOTE: I’m not a support of the war, only the troops.
US troops aren’t the homicidal maniacs you point them out to be. Your comments are Propaganda, nothing else. It’s extremism like yours that needs to be avoided.
January 16th, 2007 at 11:44 amRobert, #75 we the people, do depend on our representatives to do something, but we the people, also expect our president and his administration to be somewhat responsive to what we think. When 70% of the country is against something and the leadership ignores their opinions and continues to follow the recommendations of a think tank that has been proven wrong time and time again we are no longer being represented in accordance to our wishes.
January 16th, 2007 at 12:18 pmTP, can you do something about this stalker that calls themself “rachel and angies friend”
January 16th, 2007 at 12:39 pmBlair is a MASS Murderer
I’m no more inclined to dismiss your charges out of hand than I am to accept them out of hand. There’s enough hard evidence of murder and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, the atrocities at Haditha and other locations, contractors shooting at civilians just for fun, etc. The reality is bad enough. The article you cited http://www.counterpunch.org/hassan12012004.html doesn’t say anything about troops deliberately destroying drugs or baby incubators. Half of it is about the UN sanctions and the damage they did and much of the rest is about Fallujah, which was a case of indiscriminate destruction without regard for civilian casualties. Fallujah, by itself, might be what gets Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld a trip to the Hague. But, there’s a difference between the sort of negligent homicide that occurred there and the actual targeting of vulnerable civilians.
Don’t be so careless with your wording. When you start calling the troops baby-killers, you’re going to lose a lot of the support you have right now for getting them out of there.
January 16th, 2007 at 12:43 pmOK, everyone that believes post #87, please stand on your head.
RAABF, If I could delete posts, you would be gone by now.
January 16th, 2007 at 12:44 pmLooks like you have a stalker robert, not sure what to say. I would hope TP would ban the IP addresss. especially after the abuse on the threads yesterday from the same person.
January 16th, 2007 at 12:48 pmTP, Fellow commentors,
I am gone until TP gets some control of their site.
It’s been real and it’s been educational.
PEACE
January 16th, 2007 at 12:48 pmRache, P-U-T D-O-W-N T-H-E P-I-P-E, give it a rest!
Paranoia often?
January 16th, 2007 at 12:49 pmThe US is NOT a democracy, it is a Representative Republic.
Comment by robert
Glad to see you corrected yourself there, Robert. Many people are under the impression that we live in a democracy but you are right, we don’t. We live in a republic, and a republican form of government is all that our constitution guarantees us. Representatives were the only ones picked directly by the people in the beginning. (Senators were chosen by the states, and the president is chosen by the electoral college, not popular vote). When Ben Franklin was asked what kind of government their historic convention came up with, he answered, “A republic, if you can keep it.”
January 16th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Good Morning all,…Been watching on C-Span a rerun of George Mcgovern and Polk on a book they wrote . Out of Iraq, I think is the title..The press club is asking the questions….The Mcgovern councel of elders has a lot to say and none of it good for bull shit bush…..Well Yah! Terrible for me to say I thought all these old duff’s like me were dead…..Nope we are not and we are speaking out…..Have you all written and phoned your representatives.? If not why not.? Please do, now and often…
On another note, noticed we had sold many weapons to other countries like China and Iran…No big suprise there either and let us not forget the little fun game bull shit did exchanging the uranium for mangos and shunning other countries, in effect doing his usual dumbass stunt to piss the world off…..From an adult prospective, never show favoratism to one child over another…But then we all know bush is not an adult, he’s insane.
Why aren’t we dismanteling the war machines here and over there.? That would be the good thing to accomplish Peace in the world….I know the answer, it is not profitable in a warmonging administration……Here’s my main thought, while we are still working on removing this dreadful administration, how likely is it one of the supplied bomb’s we sent to China or Iran with our own name stamped on it is going to land in our lap because of the insane polacies bull shit bush is forcing on the world?.. My answer, very likely….Remove the evil with in our own country, stop the war’s and bring our troop’s home now….Blessings
January 16th, 2007 at 12:57 pmINTERESTING,
January 16th, 2007 at 1:06 pmUpon further review, Rachel might be onto something. Robert SURE DID LEAVE suddenly when outed. Hmmm. And while he may not have been successful in hacking the site, he sure could be guilty of trying to.
Ouch. I hope it was worth it, Robert (another dumbass in the military is NOT WHAT WE NEED).
Links to only a few of the many trigger happy incidents in Iraq:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0616-02.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A55903-2003May29?language=printer
http://electroniciraq.net/news/1355.shtml
An interesting link about the start point of the insurgence (excesive deadly force against demonstrations done by USA troops?):
http://hrw.org/reports/2003/iraqfalluja/
January 16th, 2007 at 1:06 pmAccording to the Borgen Project putting an end to world hunger and malnutrition would only cost us $19 billion annually. Compared to the over $300 billion spent in Iraq so far that’s nothing. It’s time we got back to those issues that really matter and accomplish the Millennium Development Goals.
January 16th, 2007 at 1:47 pmhttp://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0616-02.htm
Did the teacher in this article notice the little sign on the back of all military convoys that warn people to stay at least 100 meters behind the convoy?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ ac2/ wp-dyn/ A55903-2003May29?language=printer
In this article US forces were insensitive
http://electroniciraq.net/news/1355.shtml
Story about wrong place, wrong time
http://hrw.org/reports/2003/iraqfalluja/
Inconclusive investigation.
Gees, If you want to hang someone out to dry, you need more than hurt feelings and hear say.
January 16th, 2007 at 2:00 pmwoah woah woah one minute here! I just read this:
No. Personally, I don’t. But it does irritate me when I see so many (not all) posters here derogate our troops and label them war criminals and murderers.
Comment by Exley
Who here has ever….EVER labeled our troops as war criminals and murderers? I’ll be the first to whips some ass, if that were true. You need to provide proof there, Exley boy, before making such remarks.
and please, the idiots that savagely raped and murdered that 14 year old girl, as well as her family, are not comparitive to our troops.
Link please, Exley, and names of who declared our brave men and women, war criminals and murderers!
otherwise your statement has no merit.
Oh, and one more thing…. sorry ’bout them Jets! I was in the Caribbean when they got their arse handed to them
January 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pmtest
January 16th, 2007 at 3:54 pm#95, Seeing how I do not appear to be banned and TP has removed the post that accused me of hacking their site, I guess that clears things up a little.
DNFP, Notice this. Recognize that anyone can level an acusation, but when given a chance the Admin at TP will try to do the right thing. To instantly jump on an acusation whitout proof is foolish.
TP Admin. Thank you for removing those remarks.
January 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pmDRxJ,
Just take a look at the postings of “Blair is a Mass Murderer” (subtle, eh?) above. That’s one example….
As for the Jets, thanks, but I really had no faith they were going to win that game anyway.
Caribbean, eh? I’m envious….
January 16th, 2007 at 4:44 pmEr, Robert, you’re GONE, remember? You ran out of here like a scared 3rd grader!
Why come back to defend yourself? Unless YOU ARE GUILTY.
Adios, mo-fo.
January 16th, 2007 at 5:11 pmNote how conspicuosly quiet Zooey and unbelievable are on this subject
Also note how Robert keeps posting a *test*
Why would a person who is on the up and up need to keep doing that ?
Unless they were banned and hacked their way back in ?
Comment by DNFP makes sense
Gee, Zooey is in SCHOOL.
Unbe TEACHES school and can’t hang around here all day, like you can by changing your name yet again!
Leave them alone. You seem to thrive on creating drama and chaos.
January 16th, 2007 at 5:31 pmWe don’t need it here. There is enough in the world already.
Oh, and one more thing…. sorry ’bout them Jets! I was in the Caribbean when they got their arse handed to them
Comment by DRxJ — January 16, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
Doc, I wish that I had been in the Caribbean when the Jets got their arse handed to them!
Exley, should i change my name so that my initials don’t spell J-E-T-S?
January 16th, 2007 at 5:35 pmDNFP makes sense,
What the hell are you talking about?
January 16th, 2007 at 6:32 pmSorry, rachel.
I should have told you earlier that I will never allow you past the spamblocker on my email address.
You see, I find you certifiable.
That’s just the way it is.
robert? No, dearie. I talk to him on TP only.
I have been bold enough (some think foolish) to post my email address, but it is because I want to talk to them.
We have created our own “bitch session” about problems like YOU being able to post unchecked.
We want to make things better. That is why you were not included. You make everything worse.
That’s all there is. There ain’t no more.
January 16th, 2007 at 7:42 pmtry again.
Better yet, take your anti-pyschotic meds and take a nap.
Thank you.
BRAVO, trueblue!!
January 16th, 2007 at 7:54 pmWhy, thank you, Zooey.
It was tough love, well, tough truth is more like it….
I do feel badly, though.
It’s not like we have a secret club or anything.
January 16th, 2007 at 8:00 pmThe only requirement is sanity. (or semblance thereof…)
OK, so now we know that Tuesday is the day the psych patients get computer time. (Sorry, that was insulting to psych patients)
Rachel, Booby, before you call or e-mail anyone, you better have proof! There are these things called slander, libel and some stalking laws that may apply.
Leave it alone, or better yet, just leave.
Zooey, trueblue, where does one get in on the bitch session?
January 16th, 2007 at 8:35 pmWell, rant on,
first I kinda need to know who you are.
No offense intended, but one does have to be careful on the Internet.
January 16th, 2007 at 8:45 pmAre you a regular poster?
Would I know you?
You can feel free to use the address rachel has already posted, but I cannot add you until I know who you are here. Is that OK with you?
INTERESTING,
Upon further review, Rachel might be onto something. Robert SURE DID LEAVE suddenly when outed. Hmmm. And while he may not have been successful in hacking the site, he sure could be guilty of trying to.
Ouch. I hope it was worth it, Robert (another dumbass in the military is NOT WHAT WE NEED).
Comment by DieNowForPeace
Don’t be so quick to buy into troll crap. I can’t believe you believe that crazy troll over Robert. You’re smarter than that.
January 16th, 2007 at 8:57 pmComment by careful now
Unlike you, Robert is not a coward who needs to keep changing his name. Believe me, if I needed to hide something from you, it would be hidden. You don’t matter enough for me to hide something from you.
Just run along and be crazy…
January 16th, 2007 at 9:38 pmComment by careful now
Comment by Jewish Liberator
Comment by Jews are Gods chosen people —
Rachel . . .
You must get awfully tired doing all that cutting and pasting. What are you really, a trust-fund baby? ‘Cause we all work, yet you can be found posting here under any one of, what? thirty names, not counting the ones you steal, any time day or night. For what? Do you think this is going to drive us away? I’ve been here for over three years, and have seen many trolls come and go. I’ll still be here, after you’ve decided on some more important target, and so will the others. We have the patience to wait you out. We waited for six years to resume control, and we’ve got a mission to restore this country to the America we once knew and still love.
And I’m still Barfly.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:11 amIt is nice to see that not every “progressive†automatically and reflexively accepts the tired old liberal stereotype that portrays the American military as murderers, rapists, and human rights abusers.
Comment by Exley
First of all, I was in the military.
Second, it is a tired old conservative myth that all liberals stereotype the American military as murderers, rapists, and human rights abusers.
Third, what we object to is the covering up of such crimes in the RARE cases that they do occur.
Last, I’ve learned not to portray ALL conservatives in the same light, so you shouldn’t portray all liberals that way. Many liberals are, like me, libertarian in their views as opposed to the significant proportion of conservatives who are quite authoritarian. I have no problem accepting life under competent authority, but not under incompetent authority such as we have now in the White House, and certainly not under hypocritical, dishonest and criminal authority, which also describes the White House.
January 17th, 2007 at 8:04 am….
January 25th, 2007 at 5:57 am……
January 25th, 2007 at 6:35 amFountain Lover
Why would you say that, when you can see that what you sy is not correct.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:47 amCaribbean Deal
I can’t wait to get back to Grand Cayman for my next vacation but I don’t think the current dollar exchange rate will hold up for long.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:12 ampuppet toys
Additionally, users cannot type, but can choose phrases to say from
March 24th, 2008 at 2:09 pmFinancial Investment Advisory Services
It is a quite interesting post but quite difficult to understand for me -
March 27th, 2008 at 9:11 pmCollege Financial Aid Application
Interesting – because that is the same thing I found out last Thursday.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:26 amBankruptcy Laws In Vt
I have to say, that I could not agree with you in 100%, but it’s just my opinion, which could be wrong.
April 1st, 2008 at 12:49 pmJanina
Miracles occur naturally as expressions of love. The real miracle is the love that inspires them. In this sense everything that comes from love is a miracle.
April 3rd, 2008 at 6:20 pmAction Reduce Greenhouse Gas Community
Interesting – because that is the same thing I found out last Thursday.
April 4th, 2008 at 12:05 pmAccounting Financial Financial Success
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 4th, 2008 at 10:05 pmPee Female Pee Pee Hole
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 4th, 2008 at 10:53 pmmedical liability
Good post. I am looking into these issues on my blog.
April 5th, 2008 at 6:06 amCristina
Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your mind looks at what happens.
April 5th, 2008 at 6:21 amDistance Learning Teachers Having Sex With Students Very Hot School Girls
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 6th, 2008 at 2:55 amAdult Babies
Thanks for creating this blog. I thought it was a very interesting read. It is so interesting reading other peoples personal take on a subject.
April 9th, 2008 at 5:37 amProm Dresses Hat Hollister Clothing
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 9th, 2008 at 12:46 pm