BREAKING: Bush to place warrantless spying under FISA.
The AP reports, “The Justice Department, easing a Bush administration policy, said Wednesday it has decided to give an independent body authority to monitor the government’s controversial domestic spying program.”
As a result of these orders, any electronic surveillance that was occurring as part of the Terrorist Surveillance Program will now be conducted subject to the approval of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court,” [Alberto] Gonzales wrote [in a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee], a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press.
“Accordingly, under these circumstances, the President has determined not to reauthorize the Terrorist Surveillance Program when the current authorization expires,” the attorney general wrote.
UPDATE: TPM Muckraker has the full letter.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
Of course they did, because they know it is illegal and will be investigated. The problem for them is that they already broke the law and the program will still be investigated.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:38 pmThey must be getting scared. It is the only explanation.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:41 pmThanks Spudge,
That’s the ticket.
Funny that the majority of this admin’s time and energy has always gone to covering thier asses. Now even more than ever.
The party is over, and time to shut it down boys.
I’m also waiting for trolls to tell us how this is impeding our security.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:42 pmThey’ve moved on to something more wicked and invasive, and more importantly, undisclosed.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:42 pmthe system has a way of balancing out. it was inevitable and im glad that it happened. perhaps the neocons will learn a lesson and not do bulls#$t like this again. but i agree with spudge_boy, the law has already been broken and that still needs to be rectified.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:43 pmYou mean he was for it before he was against it?
The law has already been broken, they can’t take that back. Besides, we don’t know if they’re lying on this. Can’t trust anything they say.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:45 pm“The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has put together its guidelines and its rules and those have met administration concerns about speed and agility when it comes to responding to bits of intelligence where we may to be able to save American lives,” White House press secretary Tony Snow said.”
Finally the FISA court has done what should have been done 6 years ago.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:45 pmThey are very worried. They should be.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:46 pmFunny how things change when the corrupt assholes lose their majority.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:48 pmIn a few months there will be a major terrorist attack and it will be blamed on the dems and the opponents of this program. Bush will nominate himself king and it will be the end of the US’ experiment with democracy.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:51 pmWhat about reading our mail without suspicion/consent?
And questionable detainee treatment?
and the patriot act provision that lets bush install US attorneys indefinitely at his whim?
etc, etc, etc.
hopefully the power shift roots out more of the myriad illegal activities our persident has been pushing. maybe it’s time for some decency in our gov’t??
January 17th, 2007 at 2:52 pmAnd when, does anyone know, does the current program expire?
January 17th, 2007 at 2:54 pmAnd when, does anyone know, does the current program expire?
Comment by RUCerious
My guess would be Jan. 2009.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:57 pmAnyone seen Robert around today ?
I mean Hacker Bob ?
Heh !
Comment by bill bixby
Gee I don’t know, is it part of the Zooey approved plan?
January 17th, 2007 at 3:00 pmRUCerious sez:
It doesn’t matter. After either Israel or our carrier in the Persian Gulf is attacked, either by the Iranians or as an elaborate false-flag operation calculated to implicate Iran, Chimpy and Co. will resume trampling all over our rights, ostensibly to ’save us from da terrah’.
Give it six weeks…eight at the outside.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:00 pmThey know its wrong so they back off of it. Does this mean that they can’t use the “Well I didn’t know if it was illegal” defense.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:01 pmWill the independent body also investigate the previous actions undertaken by the domestic spying program (such as ethnic profiling)? Or would that only take place if a full out investigation is called for by congress?
January 17th, 2007 at 3:02 pm‘bill bixby sez:
Yes, rachel, I have. He’s even appended ‘hacker bob’ to his nick as an homage to your vapid idiocy.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:02 pmBy all means:
INVESTIGATE
January 17th, 2007 at 3:03 pmIMPEACH
INCARCERATE
IMPOUND
Finally the FISA court has done what should have been done 6 years ago.
Comment by Tracy #7
…But in the meantime T’rashy
…Bushiva, L’il Dick and the boyz…
…have been breaking the law…
January 17th, 2007 at 3:05 pmSo, when is Shrub going to appoint cronies to FISA court to rubber stamp his spying?
January 17th, 2007 at 3:09 pmI know there were a couple of lawsuits about this.
My concern is that all of this gets dropped.
If Bush simply says that they’ve ended the program, can the lawsuits still proceed?
Biases aside, anyone know?
January 17th, 2007 at 3:10 pm#4 is correct. They’ve figured out a way around it.
Or at the very least, they can say that they’ve quit doing it–and continue to do it.
This is all window dressing.
Move along, citizen. Nothing to see here.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:10 pm“Finally the FISA court has done what should have been done 6 years ago. Comment by Tracy — January 17, 2007 @ 2:45 pm”
****Dear naive Tracy! How wonderful it is to see my fellow *cons* lap up the talking points from this administration! You know, without *holes* like yourself to *exit*, the diarrhea of propaganda would never have an exit!
Tell me Tracy, since FISA guidelines and practices are a matter of *law*, passed by *congress* - what exactly are you saying the FISA court has decided to *legislate* for itself? I hope dear boy you aren’t suggesting that the FISA court is being an *activist* court - because you know how we *cons* feel about that!
But I’m so glad to hear that you simply *accept* the words of Mr. Snow without *thinking* about their content! Blind followers like you are essential for the creation of the state of Zion, and the bringing of the *rapture*! Keep up the good work big boy!
January 17th, 2007 at 3:14 pmGee I don’t know, is it part of the Zooey approved plan?
Comment by ForTruth
Vvvrrroooom!!
Did anyone get the number of that bus….?
January 17th, 2007 at 3:15 pm‘bill bixby’ sez:
Starting to get to you, aren’t I, rachel?
It’ll only get worse…best to bow out now.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:18 pmYo, HULK-OF-A-RETARD.
Quit trashing the site, cut-and-paste freakin’ nutcase.
Go flog yourself in front of your autographed 8.5×11″ of Shrub that hangs above your bed while wearing your KKKarl Rove get-up.
That’s it, now your doing something worthwhile.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:19 pmWhat the hell — let’s stop all surveillance and throw open the borders. That way, nobody’s sensitivities get hurt.
Of course a lot of people’s bodies will get hurt when the terrorists run wild, but hey, what’s important is that we don’t run the risk of offending someone.
You guys are so off the deep end on this one it’s hilarious!
January 17th, 2007 at 3:19 pmI sent TP emails about this crazy-assed troll — again.
Everyone should do the same.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:20 pmCynicon Implant
Next time you get an implant, please ask for a brain.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pmI cannot understand why this went on for so long. It’s frightening to think what life would be like with republicans in charge for two more years. They are a sad bunch of scumbags. And yet, Christians don’t see it. Strange.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pmCynicon Implant sez:
The borders were never closed, genius.
You’re right, though. It would have made good sense to close the borders…so why didn’t Chimpy do it?
Looking forward to your answer…
January 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pmGonzo wants to put the surveillance under FISA because they already found out what they needed. And CYA…not that it should help.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pmZooey,
January 17th, 2007 at 3:24 pmI’ve been emailing them A LOT lately…
Gonzales, you’re smooth as butter, but you have just one teeny weeny problem…YOU DON’T MAKE THE LAWS!
January 17th, 2007 at 3:25 pmSuck on that, & when you’re done give it to Asscroft to chew on.
Zooey sez:
Why bother, Zooey? It’s obvious by now that the TP admins don’t care whether or not this mega-troll disrupts the threads or not.
It looks like the only way we’ll manage to get rid of them is if we convince them to post something about 9/11 Truth, AIPAC, or Zionism. THEN, you can be assured that the Powers That Be will take swift and terrible action. ^_^
January 17th, 2007 at 3:26 pm****Dear Cynicon Implant, I couldn’t agree more! We need to seal the borders, round up all of the *koranimals* in this country, and gas them to death and to help Israel take over the rest of the territory of Judea so the Messiah will come!
The president doesn’t need oversight from the pesky courts, congress or american people! He’s the *anointed* savior of mankind, and he will usher in the *rapture*! He is our King, and I agree with you, that he should have 100% power over the country as our King! We conservatives don’t believe in democracy or those *pesky* oversight courts like FISA! They don’t protect our *rights* from the abuse of power, they protect the *terrorists*, because *all* libruls are natural born terrorists! Just like when they tried to *prevent* us from supporting Al Qaeda against the Soviets! They were terrorists then, they are terrorists now - the *libruls* that is!
January 17th, 2007 at 3:28 pmWhy would the Prez. push so hard for this (Hell, it was in place before anyone knew it existed) but now he’s backing off. The laws haven’t changed have they? If they don’t push for it, are they admitting it was not well thought out? Or, as Zooey states, they already have the information they want.
Doubtful, They are attempting to lessen the blow when the doors are kicked in on this little party.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:29 pmWhy bother, Zooey? It’s obvious by now that the TP admins don’t care whether or not this mega-troll disrupts the threads or not.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Because I’m not just going to roll over for that f*cking troll. I cut and paste the troll’s entire comment and email it to admin. If everyone did that, maybe they’ll wake the f*ck up.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:32 pmYou’re right, though. It would have made good sense to close the borders…so why didn’t Chimpy do it?
Looking forward to your answer…
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
I wish he had. Deport all the illegal aliens while he’s at it. One of his greatest failures IMHO.
Your challenge to me evades the issue I was getting at, namely: fighting against surveillance enables and emboldens the terrorists. Thus an argmuent against surveillance is an argument for allowing more damage to us by terrorists.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:36 pmIf they are doing this in anticipation of investigations and lawsuits then they need to be reminded that discontinuation of an illegal activity does not excuse previous illegal activity. The laws were still being broken and need to be accounted for. But does this not go against the Bush admin notion that the president can do whatever he wants if he says it is in the interest of national security?
Also to those who think that this throws open the doors to terror coming into our country, you really need to re-think your position and get a grip. All this does is make a small step towards the US being a nation of laws were everyone ibis accountable to the same laws in the same measure, at least that is the theory. The administration never once showed that the violations of FISA were aiding in the war on terror. They never once showed that FISA was a hindrance. The only things they point to are things that could easily have been accounted for within the bounds of FISA. I.e. they have yet to prove that there was one ticking time bomb scenario where they needed to begin surveillance immediately and could not apply for the legal warrants within the allotted time. Yes you wrong wingers, they could always surveil within the law for a period of days and take the warrant request to courts after the fact. Also remember that these were very compliant courts who granted statistically 100% of all requests.
I’ve also heard from wrong wingers, or regressive that they had nothing to hide so therefore they have no problem with this sort of thing. They completely miss the point of our rights and the constitution, go figure. These rights are not ours to use only when we need them, they are not ours to grant to others only when we decide they need them. They are ours, they are our national character, without them we are no longer America. Simply having nothing to hide means you don’t need your rights today, but that is far from the truth. You need these rights today and always whether you feel you need them or not. As of this point in time the only assurances we have that the so called “terrorist surveillance program” only targeted terrorists and not ordinary citizens or political rivals of the president is the administrations word, and that is not good enough for me, there needs to be accountability and oversight. So stop selling them so cheaply for political expediency.
One last question for the resident regressive wrong wingers, time and time against the president and members of his administration have claimed that this program is necessary and valuable and that the old program was slow and cumbersome. If this is the case, why would they put the new program under the old one now? Were they lying before? Or are they not serious about protecting us today? The answer of course is that they were not being straight with us at all before.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:38 pmZooey/Trip re#42,
January 17th, 2007 at 3:38 pmThat’s EXACTLY what I do, then ask them if they enjoy paying for the extra bandwidth(for extra activity) for such tripe.
“Your challenge to me evades the issue I was getting at, namely: fighting against surveillance enables and emboldens the terrorists. Thus an argmuent against surveillance is an argument for allowing more damage to us by terrorists. Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 17, 2007 @ 3:36 pm”
****I agree! Those terrorists know that our surveillance courts aren’t going to allow suspected terrorists to be monitored, so they will act more boldly, and with less regard to their safety! You’re so right, I can see exactly how that could work! They’re all so sophisticated in their knowledge of how our internal courts work - that they *like you*, probably falsely believe that *libruls* are trying to stop legitimate surveillance! Isn’t it nice for you to know that you have *so-much* in common with the *koranimals*!
January 17th, 2007 at 3:41 pmWhy didn’t our attorney general know that this was illegal in the first place. Or, could it be that Gonzales was aiding and abetting Bush in criminal activities in the first place?
January 17th, 2007 at 3:41 pmOkay, mental midget, the ARGUMENT is for following the law, WHICH WAS CHANGED TO ALLOW 72 HOURS TO GET A WARRANT AFTER THE EAVESDROPPING HAS OCCURED.
It’s a simple matter of legality, not security. We’ll be secure as long as Dumbya follows the law, cause when he doesn’t, HE DOESN’T HAVE ANY LEGAL GROUNDS TO PROSECUTE, WHICH MEANS THEY GET SET FREE, DIPSHIT.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:41 pmFor the background on the dubious legality and dangerous politics of domestic spying for the Bush White House, see:
- “The Republicans’ Constitutional Crisis.”
For the latest news, legal documents and other essential materials, see:
January 17th, 2007 at 3:42 pm- “The NSA Domestic Spying Resource Center.”
“I wish he had. Deport all the illegal aliens while he’s at it. One of his greatest failures IMHO. Comment by Cynicon Implant — January 17, 2007 @ 3:36 pm”
****I agree! It’s just too bad that most acts of domestic terrorism have been just that - domestic! From people that live here legitimately! In fact, the 9/11 bombers were here on legitimate visas, and not *illegally* as you suggest. The biggest failure is that we *zionists* haven’t yet secured the territory of Judea, so the messiah can’t come yet! And those meddling islamist devil worshipers are trying to prevent us from making it happen! Dam them!
January 17th, 2007 at 3:43 pmCynicon Implant sez:
I call bullshit. You’re the one who said ‘open the borders’.
Now you’re evading my issue. I asked you a question. I’ll ask it again:
If Chimpy is so concerned about another terrorist attack, why didn’t he close the borders after 9/11?
(I can’t imaging anything more ‘emboldening’ than a wide open border…can you?)
Still looking forward to your answer.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:45 pm“The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has put together its guidelines and its rules and those have met administration concerns about speed and agility when it comes to responding to bits of intelligence where we may to be able to save American lives,†White House press secretary Tony Snow said.â€
Finally the FISA court has done what should have been done 6 years ago.
Comment by Tracy — January 17, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
Oh, bulls*it.
Bush bragged about how he would still go to the FISA court for domestic wiretapping, yet he specifically bypassed the court when one end of the call was “international.”
What this all boils down to ever since the disclosure of his illegal program and his lame attempt to defend it is this:
He “worried” about speed and agility on an international-domestic call, all in the name of saving us from an attack, yet didn’t give a damn about speed and agility on a domestic-domestic call.
He said that long-term monitoring was necessary for domestic-international calls, and the FISA process just didn’t work in those cases. So what about domestic-domestic calls? Are there no long-term monitoring situations with these???
January 17th, 2007 at 3:49 pmBecause I’m not just going to roll over for that f*cking troll.
Comment by Zooey — January 17, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Yeah, baby! Unfortunately, with this particular troll, one can almost feel sorry (key word:almost) for it. Using different names, posting at all hours of the day. Really must be a lonely, I mean LONELY person.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:52 pmHey, maybe Rachel aka too numerous names to print, could hook up with our own Jason Misogynist Hendler.
See? I can whack a troll AND play matchmaker! Heh
I wanna beat TripMaster Monkeys ass
I cant wait forever
Wanna meet ?
January 17th, 2007 at 3:52 pmIf Chimpy is so concerned about another terrorist attack, why didn’t he close the borders after 9/11?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — January 17, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
And why didn’t he demand that ALL cargo coming into this country be inspected?
Spare me the “it couldn’t be done” bullshit. We can send a man to the moon with 1950’s and 1960’s technology. We can find a way to monitor all cargo 50 years later.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:55 pmMaybe this troll knows how to change his IP, it is possible, its called IP spoofing.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:55 pmSee? I can whack a troll AND play matchmaker! Heh
Comment by DRxJ
I wish you good luck with that. :}
The huge post is gone — for now. That’s more response than we’ve had for a while.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:00 pmImplant, you’re building a straw man. No one is arguing that we shouldn’t be trying to listen in on suspected terrorists. It should be done within the framework of the law.
The American people, through the Congress, passed a law, FISA, governing this sort of activity. It was signed into law by the President. It was deemed sufficient throughout the rest of the Cold War. 9/11 didn’t change the law. Congress didn’t change this aspect of FISA when approving every change that the administration requested after 9/11. If this law was hindering efforts at stopping terrorism, the admin. had every opportunity to request a change. And most likely would have gotten it.
It is the law. It was broken, intentionally.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:00 pmI masturbate alot too
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — January 17, 2007 @ 3:56 pm
NOT TripMaster Monkey
Somebody else email TP…
January 17th, 2007 at 4:01 pmI masturbate alot too
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — January 17, 2007 @ 3:56 pm
ohhh dear lawd! Can’t debate, totally debunked, now resorting to name jacking.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:04 pmPathetic, just pathetic.
dammit, where’s Exley at, to, you know, actually debate an issue?
I don’t know who is channeling Mighty, but damn, it’s amusing! So much more fun to read than her usual drivel!
January 17th, 2007 at 4:05 pmDon’t forget the dead kid references, that will give it the stamp of authenticity…
I smell fear on the Bushies.Ain’t it sweet?
Given this odd development, why should we believe Bush at this point?
God spoke to him and told him he was wrong?
He decided that Alberto and his minions were wrong and that he should obey the law all of a sudden?
He’s afraid that Congress is going to impeach him?
Pardon me for being a cynic, but I just don’t buy into this sudden change of heart.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:13 pmStep two for them is Try to get any Lawsuits dismissed by saying:
“But we comply with the law!!!”
Wait for it…
January 17th, 2007 at 4:14 pmComment by Cynicon Implant — January 17, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
By all means, repeal the 4th Amendment! Institute total surveillance of all Americans, 24/7. Telescreens in every house. Big Brother is Watching!
Then, and only then, will Ms. Implants feel secure.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:21 pm….so they’re admitting that they were out of bounds all along (a premeditated, previously confessed to, and serially repeated crime), and haven’t, in all this time, been able to concoct a legal theory to support themselves.
why not just sit down and write us out a confession that we can read into the record at the impeachment hearings, fellas?
January 17th, 2007 at 4:22 pmIs it possible that the administration knows that they’re in trouble in a variety of cases and that they’re trying to circumvent rulings that they know will go against them?
They’ve already got one ruling on this issue where the judge has ruled what they are doing is unconstitutional. I know there are other cases in the system. My guess is that there are other cases that they want to bring to trial, but they know they’ll get thrown out based on the aforementioned unconstitutionality.
I find it hard to believe that they can be resolved of responsibility by saying that they’re obeying the law now.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:29 pmZoo, I went ahead and emailed TP about today’s troll(s). We’ll see how it goes. I’ll let you know what the response is.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:31 pmRachel and Implant:
Since you’ve STILL got your heads up your asses, look around and see if your brain is in there…
January 17th, 2007 at 4:33 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire — January 17, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
NOT BRISEADH NA FAIRE
January 17th, 2007 at 4:39 pmThanks, Jane.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:40 pmZoo, I went ahead and emailed TP about today’s troll(s). We’ll see how it goes. I’ll let you know what the response is.
Comment by JaneESchneider
One of the reasons I hardly post at TP any more. Trolls seem to be totally out of control, while my posts, which contain no curse words, etc constantly get deleted.
When TP can get these issues under controll I may come back.
Kinda frustrating to post a well thought out and researched post and have it deleted while the trolls run amuck and do what they want, namejacking, etc.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:43 pmTP,
When are you gonna block the person who is causing the trouble?
Are they spoofing their IP? are you unable to deal with it?
January 17th, 2007 at 4:45 pmMy name is Rachel b.
I am a lonely shut-in, I have all but dried up. Men tend to run when they see me. I pull nuggets out of my butt and call them talking points.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:47 pmGlad to see Rachel facing her own music.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:48 pmGuys, Faiz says they’re working on reforms which would help with the troll problem, to be annouced soon.
I hope it’s REAL soon, for our sakes.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:54 pmOne of the reasons I hardly post at TP any more. Trolls seem to be totally out of control, while my posts, which contain no curse words, etc constantly get deleted.
When TP can get these issues under controll I may come back.
Kinda frustrating to post a well thought out and researched post and have it deleted while the trolls run amuck and do what they want, namejacking, etc.
Comment by Wayne — January 17, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
Because you are stupid wayne and have no value here
TP,
When are you gonna block the person who is causing the trouble?
Are they spoofing their IP? are you unable to deal with it?
Comment by ForTruth — January 17, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
What are you gonna pull a Robert too ?
January 17th, 2007 at 4:54 pmGood way to get your ass kicked
Cynicon Implant, not to pile on, but No. 62 is right. How far do we go bending the law and compromising the constitution before we’ve gone too far? At what point do we stop destroying “our way of life” in order to stop the “terrorists” from “destroying our way of life”?
To some of us, at least, the phrase “our way of life” refers to basic, fundamental liberties, not the right to shop in expensive stores or to drive a gas-guzzling SUV. If we expect our soldiers and marines - not to mention Iraqi civilians - to risk life and limb to bring fundamental liberty to Iraq, shouldn’t we be willing to take some risks ourselves in the name of fundamental liberty? Why is it worth the cost to fight for liberty over there when we are so willing to give it up over here?
Conservatives like to say “freedom isn’t free”; well, that’s true. Freedom involves risks. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press mean people will advocate things we don’t like and encourage others to behave in ways we disapprove of. The Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments mean that sometimes, the bad guys will get away with it. Sometimes criminals “get off on a technicality” - and you know what? That’s one of the prices we pay for living in a free society.
It sucks, but what’s the alternative? The alternative is less freedom.
(By the way, University of Illinois law Prof. Wayne LaFave, who’s widely known as an expert in the Fourth Amendment, likes to say “You know what a ‘technicality’ is? It’s someone else’s constitutional rights.”)
So, my question is, how much freedom are you willing to give up to be safe from the bad guys?
And, if you’re willing to sacrifice essential liberty for security here, who’s to say the Iraqis shouldn’t have been able to make that same choice - for themselves - way back in March 2003? Maybe they preferred to live under a murdering dictator who at least kept the streets safe, rather than to have the right to elect their leaders but have seemingly endless chaos. Maybe not. But, of course, we never asked them what they wanted, did we?
Before we ask another American soldier or marine, or another Iraqi, to die in the name of “freedom,” we might want to decide just how much of the stuff we really want in our own country. ‘Cuz I’m not convinced we’re all that keen on that freedom thingy in the first place.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:55 pmI actually need an ass kicking because my lower back needs an adjustment. So bill bixby, tell me when and where.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:59 pmrachel,
Are you watching re-runs of the Incredible Hulk today? Gotta love that daytime tv, hurry I think Jerry Springer is coming on…
January 17th, 2007 at 5:00 pmrachel,
Apparently there are 25 million singles out there, and it’s ok to look.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:01 pm#7 Tracy
“The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has put together its guidelines and its rules and those have met administration concerns about speed and agility when it comes to responding to bits of intelligence where we may to be able to save American lives,†White House press secretary Tony Snow said.â€
Finally the FISA court has done what should have been done 6 years ago.
No, the Bush administration has finally done what they could have done 6 years ago. They had a complaint, but instead of voicing the complaint to the FISA court or Congress, they went off and started doing warrantless taps. And it was only a few months ago that Bush, Gonzales, and Snow were all saying they absolutely had to be free to tap without warrants, that it was impossible to make it work with court orders required. I guess they were just blowin’ smoke as usual.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:07 pm#74 Hi Jane…That’s good news….I guess technically I am a “troll.” But I visit to debate and discuss, not clog up threads with nonsensical, abusive, and childish rantings.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:09 pmrachel is busily typing up some long-winded crap, referencing different tp posters. Guess the threat of the whole “being watched by the government” thing didn’t work, so now it’s trying to intimidate us with gossip.
Rachel you wish people would flirt with you.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:10 pmThis will be better if only it is NOT a rubber stamp, and if the FISA court has some real teeth. Don’t hold your breath though. Alberto Gonzales, the highest law-enforcement official in the land said today the courts should defer to presidential authority and should have NO say in Bush’s kangaroo trials of terror suspects.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:14 pm*!
Some lawmakers and administration officials said permitting court oversight of the program may defuse tensions on Capitol Hill. Gonzales will testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee tomorrow.
“If it happens to be true, it solves most of our problems,” said Jay Rockefeller, a West Virginia Democrat and the new chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. The shift in policy suggests “a rather large inconsistency with what the administration said” months ago, he added.
http://www.bloomberg.com/ apps/ news?pid=20601087&sid=aayj7ys3CwQQ&refer=home
permitting court oversight??? permitting???
they HAD the courts!!!
someone said earlier that this news means charges will be dropped…
January 17th, 2007 at 5:29 pmseems some would prefer to forget the whole thing…
too messy… ugh…
AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGH!!!
The funny thing about this episode is watching Tony Snow try to argue that the timing of this has nothing to do with the fact that Alberto Gonzolves faces a major-league ass-kicking at the hands of the Senate Judiciary Committee tomorrow.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:31 pmRachel you wish.
I’ve had a vasectomy. No pregnancy would happen you twit.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:34 pmRachel,
I know all the bitches are hot for me. It’s a burden I must live with. Seems you are too?
January 17th, 2007 at 5:39 pm#81, Exley, you’re right, you don’t come here to spew venom or shout imbecilities, like some that we could name. You, at least, can agree to disagree on certain subjects.
Hey, tell your sister that they’re having a blood drive at Shea on 1/22, if she gives blood she’ll get two free tickets to an April game.
I’m not sticking around much longer tonight, so, if I don’t get back here, have a good night everyone. Stay warm!
January 17th, 2007 at 5:45 pmBlood for tickets, eh? That’s a new one!
January 17th, 2007 at 5:49 pmYeah, the Mets’ll do anything to get fans into the stadium! I’d do it myself if I wasn’t on meds.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:52 pmJane,
have you tried? some meds are ok.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:54 pmHey! Jane…Don’t knock the Orange and Blue…Even in jest!!!!!
January 17th, 2007 at 5:54 pmBack to the way the law was before Bush ignored then abolished everyone’s Fourth Amendment right protecting us from illegal search and seizure? Curious. Perhaps they know it would not stand the light of day in a Democratic House Judiciary Committee investigation.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:05 pmLike telling the judge, looking at my history of traffic violations, ‘I obey the speed limit now’.
#80
Why didn’t the FISA court step foward and work out the rules and guidelines with the Bush administration considering they were the ones who had a problem with what the president was doing? I think both the Bush administration and the FISA court should have met about this and not waited so long. Both are responsible for upholding the constitution.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:06 pmHey! Jane…Don’t knock the Orange and Blue…Even in jest!!!!!
Comment by Exley — January 17, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
Don’t knock the Florida Gators? Why not?
….and with that, I’m outta here
January 17th, 2007 at 6:07 pmCya’ll tomorrow
Thanks Tracy,
How about when you spout off about the “Commander in Cheif” stuff. Maybe FISA didn’t have the power to engage the President on this issue. You want him to have the power on one hand, but want others to have kept him in check. Makes no sense. Which is it?
January 17th, 2007 at 6:08 pmExley, Exley, Exley. Haven’t we had this discussion before. The “Orange and Blue” are my Fighting Illini, as in “Hail to the Orange, Hail to the Blue …”
Sigh.
Oh, and … go Bears!
January 17th, 2007 at 6:09 pmrachel b,
You f*cking dried-up old bitch. Now I know why you do this shit. It’s because no man on earth would touch you with a ten foot dick. You’re a smelly, dirty stupid skank and people just can’t stand to be around you. Get a f*cking life, loser.
#84 is not ZOOEY.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:09 pmTracy what happened to anyone who “stepped forward” and attempted to “work out the rules” with the Bush Admin.
You are naive.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:10 pmTracy
Bush is responsible for upholding the constitution? Really, since when? I mean, where is that written? You mean, he is supposed to be an executive, that is, execute policy made by the legislature and not make it himself? Wow, that’s news! You ought to be a commentator for FOX News.
/sarc-off
January 17th, 2007 at 6:11 pmDave Von Ebers, Haven’t seen you in a while…Yes, you are right, we have debated on who the rightful owner of the moniker “Orange and Blue” is….I will stand by Mets…But congrats to your Bears.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:15 pm#84 is not ZOOEY.
Not even close! Just another pathetic, parasitic, pis*-brained troll getting orgasmic over snatching someone else’s identity because it doesn’t have a worthy one of its own.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:17 pmHi, Dave, let me echo Ex’s congrats on the Bears. Our Jets let us down once again.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:20 pmZooey, There was no need for you to disavow that inane and childish posting. We all knew that wasn’t you. But I understand the frustration of name-jacking. You and I don’t always see eye-to-eye (to say the least!) but name-jacking is never an acceptable practice against anyone.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:21 pmOkay, I am going home…Have a great night, Jane. Say hi to Wayne.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:22 pm#24
“Tell me Tracy, since FISA guidelines and practices are a matter of *law*, passed by *congress* - what exactly are you saying the FISA court has decided to *legislate* for itself?”
The guidelines and rules were set by Congress? Congress wrote the law not the specific proceedures on how to execute the law. Right? The FISA court had not decided to “legislate” anything for itself.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16673270/
“The White House said it is satisfied with new guidelines the FISA court adopted on Jan. 10 to address administration officials’ concerns about national security.”
So are you saying the FISA doesn’t have the authority to write new guidelines? They just did.
BTW since TP wouldn’t let me responed to your post #380 in this thread…
http://thinkprogress.org/ 2007/ 01/ 12/ dod-dictionary-surge/ #comment-1438734
If you were to read the resolutions that were passed and in the process agreed (by the UN Security Council at least) upon before UN R687 was passed, you would see that under UN R678…
http://www.fas.org/ news/ un/ iraq/ sres/ sres0678.htm
“2. Authorizes Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait, unless Iraq on or before 15 January 1991 fully implements, as set forth in paragraph 1 above, the above-mentioned resolutions, to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area;”
…meaning that the U.S. had full authority to act on behalf of the Kuwaiti government and under Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter was under obligation to abide by the ceasefire adopted in UN R687 as did Iraq after signing the conditions of that ceasefire…
http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapter7.htm
http://www.kuwaitmission.com/sc_res.htm
“The Council declared that a formal cease-fire between Iraq, Kuwait and the countries cooperating with Kuwait would come into effect after official notification by Iraq of its acceptance of the provisions of the resolution.”
“Our role was as a *cooperating* state to end the war between Kuwait and Iraq. Since Iraq wasn’t attacking kuwait, the can’t have violated the cease fire - right?”
Uh, wrong, as I just pointed out.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:24 pmExley I respect that. Thanks.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:24 pm#97
“Maybe FISA didn’t have the power to engage the President on this issue.”
Maybe? Of course they did.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:26 pmProve it Tracy. I used maybe, so I have nothing to prove.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:28 pm#100
I just said that both the FISA court and the Bush administration should have stepped foward.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:28 pm‘Night, Exley, ‘night, all!
January 17th, 2007 at 6:34 pm#103 - PLC
Thanks, I appreciate it.
And Exley, too. Thanks.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:34 pm*gag*
Prove it Tracy. I used maybe, so I have nothing to prove.
Comment by ForTruth
Nice one.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:36 pm#110
They just did by writing new guidelines and rules. I guess better late than never…right? Are you saying that they didn’t have the power to engage the president at the time it was revealed that Bush was not using the FISA court to get wire taps?
January 17th, 2007 at 6:43 pmTracy,
That would be what I meant. You said why didn’t the FISA go and approach Bush so the Constitution could be upheld. I said, maybe they didn’t have that power to do so. Of course I meant at the time no-one was following the Constitution!
January 17th, 2007 at 6:47 pm“They just did by writing new guidelines and rules. I guess better late than never…right? Are you saying that they didn’t have the power to engage the president at the time it was revealed that Bush was not using the FISA court to get wire taps? Comment by Tracy — January 17, 2007 @ 6:43 pm”
****Dear Naive Tracy, can you tell us specifically what has *changed* in those guidelines? Because the FISA law already defines extensive *guidelines*. http://www.law.cornell.edu/ uscode/ html/ uscode50/ usc_sup_01_50_10_36.html
But I’m glad to see you’re such a loyal water carrier for the administration! People like you make us *unthinking* but *touchy-feely* cons very HAPPY!
January 17th, 2007 at 6:49 pmComment by Zooey — January 17, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
WHY IS POST #84 STILL THERE?????
Take it OFF, for crissake, TP!
What the Hell is wrong with you lately?
We are MAD as Hell and won’t take it ANYMORE!!!
January 17th, 2007 at 7:07 pm* feingold statement today:
“For more than five years, the President has conducted an illegal program, including more than a year during which he publicly asserted that this violation of the law was absolutely essential to protecting the public from terrorists. I am pleased that the President has been forced to return to the law and that this program has been terminated. I continue to have many questions about what the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has decided and intend to scrutinize carefully how the Court has interpreted the FISA statute. In addition, while I welcome the decision to stop conducting surveillance without judicial approval, the President now needs to respond fully to legitimate congressional questions about the complete history of this now-terminated illegal program.â€
January 17th, 2007 at 7:12 pmhttp://feingold.senate.gov/ ~feingold/ statements/ 07/ 01/ 20070117wiretapping.htm
.
We are MAD as Hell and won’t take it ANYMORE!!!
Comment by trueblue
Thanks, true. It’s been emailed to TP at least two times that I know of.
January 17th, 2007 at 7:25 pmI’m really sick of this.
#119 - katy
I loves me some Feingold. :)
January 17th, 2007 at 7:26 pmI’m really sick of this.
Comment by Zooey — January 17, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
Then leave before I gouge your eyes out you silly little cum catcher
January 17th, 2007 at 7:30 pmI’m really sick of this.
Comment by Zooey — January 17, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
Then leave before I gouge your eyes out you silly little cum catcher
January 17th, 2007 at 7:32 pmrachel b,
And you wonder why we don’t want you on our email list. You know what? You’re the only one not on the list! Everyone else is on it — even Sir Greg Nevins. Even Nevins thinks you’re crazy, and just between you and me, that’s pretty f*cking crazy!
Get lost, loser.
January 17th, 2007 at 7:37 pmOnce AGAIN,
TROLLS run the show, while slander and flagrant breaking of the terms of use run amok.
TP:
I Am Ashamed Of You!
Are you basking in your own glow that you can’t do what’s best for your site?
Upset that FDL got Press Credentials and you couldn’t?
January 17th, 2007 at 7:38 pmGet over it and get a grip on your SITE!!!
rachel sez:
Any blog that deletes perfectly valid, rational posts without warning or explanation, while allowing this sort of filth to continue unopposed, doesn’t deserve our patronage. Period.
Judd, you are beneath contempt.
January 17th, 2007 at 7:51 pmSee why we’re doing this?
OMFG!
January 17th, 2007 at 7:55 pmThe posts that are allowed to stay are inappropriate.
January 17th, 2007 at 8:55 pmWhy didn’t the FISA court step foward and work out the rules and guidelines with the Bush administration considering they were the ones who had a problem with what the president was doing? I think both the Bush administration and the FISA court should have met about this and not waited so long. Both are responsible for upholding the constitution.
Comment by Tracy — January 17, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
What makes you so sure that Bush would have followed any new rules that the FISA court would have made? Bush bypassed FISA with the weak argument that it would tie his hands on international calls (”don’t have time to go to FISA”). But he sure as hell wasn’t the least bit concerned with speed when it came to domestic wiretapping.
Besides…Bush is the one that decided on his own that FISA was an obstacle. He is the one that should have gone to FISA. But did he? No. He and his administration kept saying that it was legal, but short of a court challenge (which we eventually got) he refused to let anyone look into the program and as you recall, he personally blocked an investigation by an arm of the Justice Dept. for reasons of “national security.” You are also aware of Republicans’ refusal to provide any oversight.
Jay Rockefeller, one of the 8 senators advised of the program yet sworn to secrecy, did contact Cheney about concerns with the program and was met with silence. And Bush’s contention that Congress was in on the game is bullshit. Last I looked, Congress is comprised of more than a few select senators. Informing those members of your intentions is not the same as consulting with the members.
Suffice it to say, however, that had Repubs maintained control of Congress, Bush would not have given in this easily.
January 17th, 2007 at 9:42 pmThere’s only one way to stop people from hijacking other people’s name from the TP message boards as in Post #84 — and that’s to do what they’ve done on websites such as Media Matters, which is to make people register for an account with a user name and password if they want to post on the message boards. That way, trolls can’t commandeer other people’s handles because they don’t have the password. Frankly, considering that I gather this has been going on for a while now, I’m surprised — and rather disappointed — that the moderators and/or site owners haven’t done anything about this.
January 17th, 2007 at 10:00 pmI for one would like to thank Attorney General Goebbels and the Emporer for allowing the Constitution to work as intended. Hard to see really what security risk was in letting FISA do its job in the first place.
Please continue forward to allow all of the checks and balances in the Constitution to occur, including the clauses having to do with “high crimes and misdemeanors”.
January 17th, 2007 at 11:08 pmI’ve been a lurker here for a very long time. Although I post only occasionally, I do support the regular posters and appreciate the well thought out posts. If it helps at all, I have been emailing Judd regularly for several days, regarding the crazy one. Even when you only lurk and read, it’s very annoying to have to scroll through dozens of posts to avoid the contamination of those who dwell under the bridge. Isn’t it enough to have to dodge the daily contamination of the Bush Administration!
January 18th, 2007 at 2:22 am#114
Refer to what Katy posted in #116.
This says about the same thing in the NY Time link below….that we will have to wait to see what the FISA court changed. Maybe the changes in “guidelines and rules” being referred to are about how the court is changing how it is going to interpret the statute.
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2007/ 01/ 18/ washington/ 18intel.html?ei=5099&en=f2815a5ebcb686f7&ex=1169701200&partner=TOPIXNEWS&pagewanted=all
January 18th, 2007 at 12:58 pm#122
Just ignore those who are spewing the foul language.
January 18th, 2007 at 1:06 pm#126
“What makes you so sure that Bush would have followed any new rules that the FISA court would have made?”
If they helped speed up the process for obtaining warrants then Bush probably wouldn’t have had any reason to side step the FISA court.
“I looked, Congress is comprised of more than a few select senators.”
And those not on the Select Intellegence Committee are not required by law to be briefed about classified information.
January 18th, 2007 at 1:37 pmGee…how convenient that Bush would put his illegal wiretapping program under FISA’s control. Maybe he was deciding that he didn’t want to go to jail for it.
January 18th, 2007 at 1:40 pmrobb’s celebrities
I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:00 amAsian Asian Schoolgirl Asian Porn Stars
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 19th, 2008 at 12:22 amKing City Bankruptcy Lawyer
Hi - just wanted to say good design and blog -
March 23rd, 2008 at 1:51 amAsian Asian Hotties Asian School Girl
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 23rd, 2008 at 6:00 pmGay Sex Gay Ass Gay Ass
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 25th, 2008 at 6:21 pmCum Swallowing Cum Cum Eater
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 26th, 2008 at 4:20 pmCum Asian Cum Ass Cum
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 27th, 2008 at 12:03 pmPsychic Reading For Spouse
Please keep these excellent posts coming.
March 28th, 2008 at 8:55 pmflorida nursing background checks
Interesting read.. any more?
March 31st, 2008 at 4:20 amGregory
I found this on google.
April 1st, 2008 at 12:33 pmbus tickets
This form of airline ticket is rapidly replacing the old paper tickets. Online check-in is typically permitted up to twenty-four hours before
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:15 amSchoolgirl Asian Schoolgirl Porn Japanese Schoolgirl Masturbation
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:13 pmFree Porn Free Full Length Porn Movies Free Full Length Porn Movies
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 8th, 2008 at 12:25 pmshop boyz
Can I share some links?
April 8th, 2008 at 6:26 pm