Friedman Blasts Liberals, Claims They Believe Arabs Are ‘Incapable Of Democracy’
Friedman Blasts Liberals, Claims They Believe Arabs Are ‘Incapable Of Democracy’
New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman was one of media’s most vocal advocates for the invasion of Iraq. On Feb. 5, 2003, he said, “I think I get this war, and, on balance, I think it is a risk worth taking.” On March 9, 2003, he added, “Regime change in Iraq is the right choice for Iraq, for the Middle East and for the world. Mr. Bush is right about that.”
Yesterday on NPR’s On Point radio show, Friedman began attacking liberals when a caller asked him about his early support for the invasion of Iraq. He sarcastically said that next time, he’ll “be a better liberal” and “will view the prospect of Arabs forging a democracy as utterly impossible. They’re incapable of democracy.” Listen here:
Friedman’s attacks on war critics have always been misplaced. On Jan. 22, 2003, he attacked liberals for failing to recognize that “regime change in Iraq is not some distraction from the war on Al Qaeda,” and on June 4, 2003, he said that “the failure of the Bush team to produce any weapons of mass destruction” was not an issue with which the country should be concerned: “It was the wrong issue before the war, and it’s the wrong issue now.”
Transcript:
FRIEDMAN: Look, I understand people who opposed the war. Some opposed it for military reasons, because they’re against war, some opposed it because they hate George Bush, some opposed it because they didn’t believe Arabs are capable of democracy. I wasn’t in that group. I really believed that finding a different kind of politics in collaboration with people in that region was a really important project.
ASHBROOK: And do you really believe –
FRIEDMAN: I’m really sorry. Next time — Next time Ishwar [caller], I promise, I really promise, I’ll be a better liberal. I’ll not in any way support any effort to bring democracy to a country ruled by an oil-backed tyranny. I promise I will never do that again. I promise I’ll be a better liberal. I will view the prospect of Arabs forging a democracy as utterly impossible. They’re incapable of democracy. I agree with you on that now.
ASHBROOK: You’re going to sarcasm. We can feel you’ve taken your licks on this.
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New York Times should fire Friedman, because he is a proven liar and a GOP agent as well! Shame on him!
January 19th, 2007 at 3:59 pmAhhh good old 3-6 months man. What a smarmy loathesome revisionist. Tell you what Nostradomous, you can sit this one out.
Your worthless prognostications are as relevent and useful as Toilet Paper.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:04 pmno, i think we, well I, believe that arabs don’t WANT a western style democracy - not least at the point of a gun… jeesh…
really, how naive i was to think there might be a break after november…
January 19th, 2007 at 4:04 pmok… bring it on… never give up…
More fake opinions from fake people.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:10 pmPut the strawman away Tom. It’s not that they can’t have a democracy. The real question is do they want a democracy that we approve of? Right now, I’d say the Iraqis don’t want that.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:11 pmYah - riiiiight.
Personally, I believe it is possible and that the Iraqi people are capable. Its just that I would set reasonable goals and expectations… and work towards those goals with the Iraqis.
Unlike, say, someone who makes excuses for shortcomings and outrageous expectations every six months or so…
January 19th, 2007 at 4:11 pmThat’s the textbook response — when asked a direct, critical question, make fun of the questioner. If you can insinuate a non-existent charge that you can then refute, so much the better.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:12 pmIraq is a burgeoning Shiite fundamentalist republic which is pro-Hizbollah, pro-Hamas, Pro-Iranian, etc.
Is that what Friedman had in mind when he stenographed for the Bush admin?
An `oldie’ but a goodie….
Iraq: Bush’s Islamic Republic
By Peter W. Galbraith
NYRB, Volume 52, Number 13 · August 11, 2005
When President Bush spoke to the nation on June 28, he did not mention Iran’s rising influence with the Shiite-led government in Baghdad. He did not point out that the two leading parties in the Shiite coalition are pursuing an Islamic state in which the rights of women and religious minorities will be sharply curtailed, and that this kind of regime is already being put into place in parts of Iraq controlled by these parties.
[snip]
Instead, President Bush depicted the struggle in Iraq as a battle between the freedom-loving Iraqi people and terrorists. Without the sacrifices of the American servicemen and -women, and the largesse of the US taxpayer, the terrorists could win. As Bush put it, “The only way our enemies can succeed is if we forget the lessons of September 11—if we abandon the Iraqi people to men like Zarqawi.â€
[snip]
Real power in Shiite Iraq rests, however, with two religious parties: Abdel Aziz al-Hakim’s Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and the Dawa (â€Call,†in English) of Iraq’s Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari. Of the two, SCIRI is the more pro-Iranian. Both parties have military wings, and SCIRI’s Badr Corps has grown significantly from the five thousand fighters that harassed Saddam’s regime from Iran in the decades before the war; it now works closely with Iraq’s Shiite interior minister, until recently the corps’ commander, to provide security and fight Sunni Arab insurgents.
SCIRI and Dawa want Iraq to be an Islamic state. They propose to make Islam the principal source of law, which most immediately would affect the status of women. For Muslim women, religious law—rather than Iraq’s relatively progressive civil code—would govern personal status, including matters relating to marriage, divorce, property, and child custody. A Dawa draft for the Iraqi constitution would limit religious freedom for non-Muslims, and apparently deny such freedom altogether to peoples not “of the book,†such as the Yezidis (a significant minority in Kurdistan), Zoroastrians, and Bahais.
This program is not just theoretical. Since Saddam’s fall, Shiite religious parties have had de facto control over Iraq’s southern cities. There Iranian-style religious police enforce a conservative Islamic code, including dress codes and bans on alcohol and other non-Islamic behavior. In most cases, the religious authorities govern—and legislate—without authority from Baghdad, and certainly without any reference to the freedoms incorporated in Iraq’s American-written interim constitution—the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL).
Dawa and SCIRI are not just promoting an Iranian-style political system —they are also directly promoting Iran- ian interests. Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, the SCIRI leader, has advocated paying Iran billions in reparations for damage done in the Iran–Iraq war, even as the Bush administration has been working to win forgiveness for Iraq’s Saddam-era debt. Iraq’s Shiite oil minister is promoting construction of an export pipeline for petroleum from Basra to the Iranian port city of Abadan, creating an economic and strategic link between the two historic adversaries that would have been unthinkable until now. Iraq’s Shiite government has acknowledged Iraq’s responsibility for starting the Iran–Iraq war, and apologized. It is an acknowledgment probably justified by the historical record, but one that has infuriated Iraq’s Sunni Arabs.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:12 pmFunny, I didn’t even feel The Freidman Blast….ok, I’ll give it 3-6 months…
January 19th, 2007 at 4:12 pmListen to his whiney sarcasm. He actally said this ” I believe that finding a different kind of polotics in collaboration with people in that regvion was a really important project”
I could do a dissertation on this laughable delusion. Premptively invading a sogverign country and forcing Western style democracy at the barrell of a gun has such a great track record. One need only look to see why England is no longer the Brisitsh Empire.
In collaboration? Yeah right! thats why we crap our pants at a democratic outcome of Lebanon and Palestine but turn a blind eye to the brutal Dictators.
lastly note the choice of words “Project”. Only an intellectually and spiritually devoid beltway bubble boy would let slip the HISTORICAL COLLOSSAL FAILURE as a Project. Friedman, you are slipping and showing the world your true Staussian Neocon agenda
January 19th, 2007 at 4:15 pmZooey,
January 19th, 2007 at 4:17 pmI’ll up you by two Freidmans and a Cheney.
(3-6 months or ~)
Friedman is hiding in a bunker now because he’s been wrong all along, his hands are as bloodstained as bush’s, and he knows it. If he had any decency and any balls, he’d come clean, trust his rods and cones, and stop shilling for war criminals.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:17 pmI’ll up you by two Freidmans and a Cheney.
(3-6 months or ~)
Comment by Zimzone
I’ll give you the two Friedman’s, but you can go f*ck yourself on the Cheney. :-)
Heh.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:18 pmI don’t know why anyone gives a care about what Thomas “just 6 more months” Friedman has to say about ANYTHING any more. He is a waste of time.
He also has a moustache. I would say I typically disagree with 99 percent of what comes out of the mouths of men with moustaches. They’re too macho I guess.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:18 pm“I really believed that finding a different kind of politics in collaboration with people in that region was a really important project. “
And what ‘project’ was that? Does he have a dictionary? Apparently he believes that “finding” = “forcing militarily”, “collaboration” = “takeover”, and “project” = “war.”
January 19th, 2007 at 4:20 pmI believe Friedman is incapable of forging his own signature.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:21 pmIt took me one complete Friedman unit to wade through his lame flat-world book; oh how I could get a refund…the guy obviously didn’t write it - an idiot of his caliber could never write 400+ pages.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:21 pmZooey,
January 19th, 2007 at 4:23 pmDone. Heh.
That didn’t take long, but neither does Dick.
Good one, Zooey! They may be the most remembered words he ever spoke…& now Leahy’s in the big chair.
Yeah, just give him another 6 months — that’ll do it.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:23 pmHe’s another big-headed jerk that I used to read for information and insight, who turned out to be another egomaniac unable to admit he’s been wrong. We already have a White House full of people like that, we sure don’t need Friedman.
Someone needs to ask Friedman if American are capable of “democracy” and precisely what does a democracy mean in terms of civil rights, constitutional rights, etc. Evidently, we no longer have one so what the hell’s this fool yacking about?
January 19th, 2007 at 4:26 pmToo bad no one holds Friedman in as a high esteem as he does….egomaniac doesn’t even begin to describe this airbag!
January 19th, 2007 at 4:27 pmOh for Christ’s sake!
It’s not about Arabs being “incapable of democracy”.
It’s about warmongering Americans like Friedman Bush and Cheney being utterly incapable of imposing “democracy” on Arabs.
And a lot of the reason is that Arabs like most human beings don’t like stuff being imposed on them.
For Christ’s sake Friedman, PEOPLE DON”T LIKE BEING INVADED - get it?
January 19th, 2007 at 4:28 pmIn the strange world of corporate mainstream media, this man is known as a “liberal.” He’s been wrong about literally everything and his career is soaring. Pundits who were correct about the war are not doing so well. This is what our media has become: what Bob Somerby calls “rule by the wrong.”
January 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pmI was, Tom, “one of those liberals” who opposed it for strategic reasons (not to mention the obvious human and financial cost), and it turned out I was 100% right.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pmAccording to insurance claims on file at the Department of Labor, 770 civilian contractors have been killed in Iraq since the war began in March 2003 through Dec. 31 and 7,761 civilian contractors have been injured. The contractors include foreign workers.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:32 pmFrom what I’ve read he married an Heiress and lives like a King. He frequents the ultra-riche GOP parties and is a real horses-ass (as shown here today at NPR) and is total insider to The Decider and his BushCo Court. No doubt that GOP talking points are sent to him for distribution on a daily basis. He pretends to be a real Journalist though fair an balanced is not the rules he plays by. Only the GOP play book. pretty full of himself wouldn’t ya say? Nothing like be kept - with tons of money - telling all the rest of us not to worry while BushCo wrecks the country.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:37 pmThey may be the most remembered words he ever spoke…& now Leahy’s in the big chair.
Comment by Zimzone
Karma’s a bitch, ain’t she?
Heh.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:37 pmSince when were Conservatives optimistic about democracy breaking out (with our help) anywhere, let alone the Middle East? That kind of “social engineering” is exactly what Liberals are accused of trying to do in domestic affairs, and what the State Dept. is accused of doing in Foreign Affairs. Talk about your rose-tinted glasses!
January 19th, 2007 at 4:40 pmIraq: Iran wants understanding with U.S.
Jan. 19, 2007 at 9:43AM
The Iraqi president says Iranian leaders told him they are ready to reach an understanding with the United States over Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon.
The London-based al-Hayat, also printed in Beirut, Friday quoted President Jalal Talabani as saying during his recent visit to Tehran he discussed American-Iranian dialogue and they “expressed their readiness to meet with the Americans. But they also want the Americans to show readiness as well to discuss the security of Iraq and resolve other issues.”
I THINK AMERICA IS INCAPABLE OF DOING DIPLOMACY
January 19th, 2007 at 4:41 pmMaybe, just maybe, friedman could point us to one example of an arabic democracy? that would be refreshing for him to offer up some reasoning behind his beliefs.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:43 pmTommy must be feeling the heat. No doubt, he’s suddenly become aware that few of the folks who used to read his articles or buy his books do so anymore. That makes him much less attrative to the NYT. Hell, he might even find that his job has been outsourced to some Indian reporter/bloviator who would be willing to work for a tenth of what Tommy is demanding. This is especially true if his traditional market has abandoned him. The neocons still think he’s a liberal and the liberals know that he’s a liar, a turncoat and a fool.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:45 pmThe despair of the “war lovers” becomes more apparent every day. They forget that the original “reason” was to protect us from WMD which Iraq was sure to sell to terrorists who wanted to blow up main street, USA. Attempting to blame anyone but bushco and themselves for this disaster only increases the obvious….they screwed up big time. EVEN if a democracy began tomorrow in Iraq, with a puppet government in love with the USA, what affect would that have on the threat of terrorism?
The only thing a USA friendly government in Iraq (democracy or not) guarantees is oil for the oil producers; continued American dollars to support the permanent USA military bases and USA intrusion into regional political affairs.
That, my friends, is why we are in Iraq.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:46 pmNo Friedman, you can’t steal that new talking point from the Neocons.
That’s all Limpbag and O’Lielly AND KRISTOL complain about NOW, is that it’s IRAQ’s fault because they can’t handle democracy???????
INCOMPOTENT STUPID F*CKERS.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:48 pmHe is not a mind, he is a monkey. A bigot.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:53 pmI believe Arabs are capable of anything they want. And I believe they don’t want Democracy. They want Theocracy.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:54 pmIt has nothing to do with considering”the prospect of Arabs forging a democracy as utterly impossible. It’s the astounding lack of historical perspective on Friedman’s part. There has never been a case in recorded history of an invader successfully imposing “democracy” on a country that has never previously had it. The “means” defeats the ends.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:54 pmHe’s another big-headed jerk that I used to read for information and insight…
Comment by Marie — January 19, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
me too! … i never wanted to admit that till now…
what happened to him? …
there are several, don’t come to mind just now, but i’m always amazed at the turn around of what i thought they stood for…
live and learn…
January 19th, 2007 at 4:58 pmWhat the fu*k is it with conservatives that they view everything in infinites. All or none, black and white, good or evil. Is it the way they are raised or is it a birth defect?
January 19th, 2007 at 5:03 pmWatch/listen to Amy Goodman really get Tommy in a huff:
http://www.democracynow.org/ article.pl?sid=06/ 06/ 07/ 1420208
January 19th, 2007 at 5:03 pmIs it the way they are raised or is it a birth defect?
Comment by Spudge_Boy
I truly believe these people are hard-wired that way.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:06 pmAgent Friedman:
Speaking of DEMOCRACY, what do you have to say about your lack of coverage of this:
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=297
http://209.157.64.201/ focus/ f-bloggers/ 1607403/ posts
Latitude: 41.92
Longitude: -106.521944
http://www.truthout.org/ cgi-bin/ artman/ exec/ view.cgi/ 47/ 17936
Bush’s Mysterious ‘New Programs’
Hanna Coal Basin “RAG Shoshone 1†facility as having stopped
production of 1 million-plus tons of coal per year as of 2001:
http://72.14.209.104/ search?q=cache:gNcoT3lrnlsJ:www.wma-minelife.com/ coal/ coalfrm/ coaldat.htm+coal+shoshone+1&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4
Did the government close the mine only to TAKE it for their use?
http://www.fmshrc.gov/ decisions/ commission/ west199934202042004.html
Read this guy’s take:
http://tinyurl.com/y48vxo
January 19th, 2007 at 5:07 pmFriedman should have stuck to helping us understand the Middle Eastern mind set, and left the politics alone. He’d be more respected if he had.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:13 pmThe three largest Muslim, not arab, but muslim democracies, are Egypt, Pakistan, and Iran. Franky all three countries have terrible problems. they are often barely democracies.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:13 pmSelf-determination is an idea Friedman has a hard time getting his head around.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:13 pmAll or none, black and white, good or evil. Is it the way they are raised or is it a birth defect?
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Isn’t all or nothing thinking one of the hallmarks of Borderline Personality Disorder?
…. not that I would have personal knowledge of such things…..
January 19th, 2007 at 5:21 pm;)
He has been Cheney’s cheerleader and just as dead-wrong.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:23 pmIsn’t all or nothing thinking one of the hallmarks of Borderline Personality Disorder?
…. not that I would have personal knowledge of such things…..
;)
Comment by trueblue
Oh man, I hope you survived it. The most difficult people in the world are the ones with that disorder.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:27 pmNice straw-man Friedman, you must be very proud of your critical thinking skills.
What a douchebag.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:27 pmDSM - (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual)
Official DSM-IV Criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
2) a pattern of unstable & intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self
4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g. spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)
5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
7) chronic feelings of emptiness
8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
9) transient, stress related paranoia or severe dissociative symptoms
January 19th, 2007 at 5:29 pmMy favorite is the self-mutilation part. Threats of suicide to manipulate, and “I hate you don’t leave me”.
Freakin wonderful people.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:30 pmThe best one is when they get so flustered, they just check out - “dissasociate”.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:32 pmCaption contest
Therapist: “OK, Thomas, would you touch your finger to your behind?”
Friedman: “Sure, like this?”
January 19th, 2007 at 5:33 pmMy GOper mother in law has Borderline Personality, and Bi-Polar disorder.
Not all crazy people are conservatives, but all conservatives are crazy people.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:34 pmYou seem to know about this one. Do tell.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:36 pmBomb all the olive trees and airlift in a bunch of Lexuses! Stat!
Give every madrassa 10 Dell Laptops with Microsoft Vista and a wifi connection!
Tommy has a killa mid east peace infomercial in the works- catch it on the home shopping network.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:37 pmYa know, if the lead science writer of the Times wrote the sun revolves around the earth for three years, and asserted critics thought the earth was incapable of being the center of the universe, I have to think the editors would reassign him-like to Bergen county JV high school field hockey.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:38 pmWhile not a Tom Friedman fan or defender, I think he’s making a different point here, albeit indirectly. As Democrats regain power, including, likely, the presidency in 2008, the Iraq catastrophe will have to be addressed. Liberals will have to take responsibility for the conflict (remember, a large majority of the American population supported the conflict back in 2002, even if we did not, so this is an American conflict, not just a Republican or Bush one). It won’t be enough for liberals–especially those who flirted with neoconservatism back in 2002–to say that Iraq “isn’t going well”; “the Iraqis don’t want democracy, either at the point of a gun or otherwise”; “we need to redeploy troops to Afghanistan because it’s a more legitimate conflict”, “we can’t referee a civil war”; etc., etc.
I think Dem leaders, especially those who voted to authorize the use of force, will have to acknowledge the wholesale failure of not only the conflict in Iraq itself, but of the idea of preempitve war and benign despotism as a foreign policy. Liberals will have to be honest with themselves about this experience. Acknowledgment of responsibility (or complicity) for previous failures is a mark of leadership, is it not? Even Friedman, a supporter of the war, acknowledged in early 2003 that the war was not, nor was it ever, related to WMDs.
Similarly, we can’t say we were misled and lied to. Even though this is true, a large majority of the PLANET, the UN Security Council, plus ~40% of Americans NEVER believed a word Bush said and NEVER supported the war.
WE invaded a country for no reason and directly caused a bloodbath. WE torture, WE detain without charge, WE threaten other countries, WE prompted a new arms race and WE have (seemingly) little regard for the rule of law. While these are primarily Bush policies, Dems, as Americans, will have to acknowledge responsibility for the actions of the Bush Junta. I think Friedman is simply saying that liberals, especially those who supported the war in 2002, must take responsibility for what happened, not split hairs to find short-term, domestic political cover. We have lost our credibility altogether, and the only way to get it back is to acknowledge what happened during the previous 5+ years.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:38 pmThe three largest Muslim, not arab, but muslim democracies, are Egypt, Pakistan, and Iran.
Comment by Krazny — January 19, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
Pakistan is a democracy only in name: The real power is held by Pervez Musharraf who came to power by a coup d’etat in 1999.
On the other hand, you left out Turkey -also a non-Arab Muslim nation. Outside the MiddleEast, we have Malaysia and Indonesia; the latter being the most populous Muslim country in the world.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:39 pmFriedman’s a megalomaniac. All the awards and notority has gone to his head. He’s become a pompas ass, who appears to be using his clought and the war for his own personal gain/benefit.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:39 pmForTruth: They want Theocracy.
Absolutely!!
All one needs to do is look at whose power has exponentially increased in democratic elections in Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Egypt, etc.
People throughout the ME want Islamic fundamentalist rulers NOT democratic rulers.
Can Democracy Stop Terrorism?
January 19th, 2007 at 5:45 pmF. Gregory Gause III
From Foreign Affairs, September/October 2005
Summary: The Bush administration contends that the push for democracy in the Muslim world will improve U.S. security. But this premise is faulty: there is no evidence that democracy reduces terrorism. Indeed, a democratic Middle East would probably result in Islamist governments unwilling to cooperate with Washington.
Heritage Foundation = Rachel B.
She’s Baaaaaack.
TP please be informed of this.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:50 pmWho’s takin’ bets that Rachel b has Borderline personality disorder?
January 19th, 2007 at 5:51 pmWho’s takin’ bets that Rachel b has Borderline personality disorder?
Comment by ForTruth
Oh Yah.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:53 pmDefinately.
My ex-wife is borderline, I have survived it. But those kind of people are a terrible drain on everyone.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:53 pmDidn’t Friedman forget to mention one group who opposed the war: those who thought it was a dumb idea and undermined our interests?
Friedman seems awfully certain that level-headed, serious people could have been duped into supporting this war. Can’t he admit it’s possible for level-head, serious people to recognize this was bad policy?
January 19th, 2007 at 5:54 pmOf course many liberals don’t believe Muslims are capable of societal democratic institutions. The vast majority of TP Prog regulars would love to have Saddam’s railroads “running on time” and his brand of “law and order”. What do you care about WMD’s or mass graves….the answer: not alot. A Progi Human Rights Motto: “Human Rights Be Damned”.
Interestingly, a Prog friend of mine invited me to attend a lecture by, Patrick Drinan, PhD, a political scientist and International Relations Professor from the University of San Diego. (I enjoy visiting enemy territory in person from time to time - so amusing!) His topic was Religions and Politics. Of all the interesting things he said, what fascinated me most was his emphasis that “cosmopolitan Muslims such as AlQaida” are most interested in re-organizing the Caliphate by destroying the mornarchies and boundaries of the contemporary Middle East and beyond. Sounds like AlQaida doesn’t believe in democracies, either. Infamous company, some might say…..
Tooodles……..
January 19th, 2007 at 5:59 pmFor Truth, Kranzy,
Are they getting help for their problems?
January 19th, 2007 at 6:01 pmI don’t think it’s any Arab-related democratic incapability that Liberals are worked up about.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:06 pmNow, that’s media spin for ya. We need “media reform” more than anything. Level the field. We want a chance too!
January 19th, 2007 at 6:15 pmArab nations are generally ruled by the government they have, not the one they would have another country impose through invasion and conquest.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:16 pmHopefully, in another Friedman or so, the NYT will realize this clown is irrelevant and toss his ass out in the street.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:18 pmFrom the Reid thread:
Zooey,
wouldn’t you like to know…..
ha
Comment by trueblue — January 19, 2007 @ 11:31 am
I want to know too. ;)
On topic: This guy is a non-issue.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:18 pmOf course many liberals don’t believe Muslims are capable of societal democratic institutions.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 19, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
Mitey Coprolite,
Your post is nothing but a long laundry list of projections. As usual, your sorry opinions are not grounded on reality whatsoever. Funny for someone who claims to be a lawyer.
Also, your “liberal” friends you hang out with always sound very caricaturesque.
I suspect they are about as real as your family and career in the legal field; meaning not at all.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:19 pmFriedman is a snake. Always has been, and will be.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:22 pmTrueblue,
I don’t know if they are capable of getting help. it isn’t like some with manic depression. Borderline people have almost zero compassion for anyone else. they are very self centered, and often malicious. It isn’t a matter of stabilizing drugs I don’t think.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:23 pmThat’s sad, Krazny.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:26 pmArab nations are generally ruled by the government they have, not the one they would have another country impose through invasion and conquest.
Comment by RUCerious
Is what Ive been trying to say all this time (well, not quite, but sort of…)
To think that you must spread your social and political values (if the latter exist) is racist, cuz is demeaning on the people who you think cant live like yourself.
To give iraqis democracy (of course we all know that this war is not about that, but even the official propaganda is shameful) is to think they cant achieve them for themselves , if thats what they want. To colonize Africa and Oceania to spread your modern technology to the natives is racism. To think you need to HELP poor people instead of GIVING THEM their right to the same opportunities than wealthy people is ELITIST and DEMEANING.
We cant teach a 5,000 y/o civilization how to live their lives as a society. Period.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:27 pmGregor is one of the best posters here.
It is YOU who are the tool.
(btw: that word you used is vulgar slang. Shows what kind of person you really are.)
January 19th, 2007 at 6:28 pmRachel b/Angie from GA/Young Texan/etc, etc, etc is making the rounds again, trying hard to feel relevant -eliciting a response through insults.
Sad when someone cannot contribute to any rational discussion at all. I agree with the other posters here who suspect it must be some sort of a personality disorder.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:31 pmThanks trueblue ;-)
January 19th, 2007 at 6:32 pmYou deserve no less, Gregor.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pmActually, you deserve quite a bit more accolades.
If being a friend to someone who has been invaluable here, then I’m guilty.
Now will you own up to being a useless troll with no other agenda than spewing hate?
January 19th, 2007 at 6:57 pmMA: “Sounds like AlQaida doesn’t believe in democracies..”
Your friends at the Ayn Rand Institute don’t believe in democracy either. What’s your point?
January 19th, 2007 at 6:58 pmrachel/angie/whoknowswhatitsnextmonikerwill be is sure hard at work trying to scare up some response from anyone.
Baiting tactics are useless, even from a master baiter.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:01 pmFriedman, Liberman, Koch. Usually they are very liberal on most issues. I wonder why they support the war? I think I am a seeing a pattern here.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:03 pmTrueblue,
Please, let it go. Some people are not worth the time and effort. Specially if they are emotionally unstable.
I don’t want you to get into a flame war on my acount; it’s too draining. Nobody can gain anything from trading insults with certain trolls and it is beneath you.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:05 pmYou are right, Gregor.
I will repeat 20 times,
January 19th, 2007 at 7:10 pm“Do Not Feed The Trolls”…
Friedman proves, once and for all time and for all doubters, that he is a loser. He simply cannot admit that he was very, very wrong. What a pathetic egomaniacal little man he has become.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:11 pmIsn’t it odd how when we say “democracy” and righties (and pseudo-righties like Friedman) mean completely different things?
Their “democracies” look an awful lot like oligarchies employing limited-slate ballot elections to ensconce themselves in power and provide the illusion of legitimacy, ours are “rule by the people”.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:13 pmPeter, modern conservatives are very libertarian. The Ayn Rand Institute, which is the philosophical voice of libertarianism, doesn’t believe democracy is a good and effective way to run a society. I heard the director of their institute say that point blank on the Tom Hartman Show.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:23 pmThis guy is a very good typist. Paid by the word…Mr. Obvious
January 19th, 2007 at 7:27 pmUnbelievable, you don’t belong here, you deserve better, move your knowledge to Raw Story, better comments on the boards up to your level, exclusive news you wont find here at TP, don’t waste yourself in here move to a better blog. Ciao dear. Just read the comments above and you should know why it’s time to move.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:31 pm14 centuries of history proving just that might be why people believe democracy in the Middle East is a fantasy.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:38 pm(btw: that word you used is vulgar slang….
Comment by trueblue — January 19, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
i just gotta say - i made a comment about this on an old thread about geraldo/olberman… or tried…
i always thought the word pussy, when used in that context, meant “afraid”, as in pussy-cat versus lion, or weenie, or fraidy-cat…
so, i wouldn’t take it as a vulgarity, and sure wouldn’t get out of shape if an anonomous, slinking troll makes an accusation of my courage and/or nerve…
and, why even engage with such a one is curious… to me…
January 19th, 2007 at 7:39 pmjust sayin’…
Of course many liberals don’t believe Muslims are capable of societal democratic institutions.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 19, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
l think it is relevant to point out that this crap was written by the same serial fabricator who asserted that the Democratic party has embraced an anti-Semitic philosophy simply for not backing Rove/Lieberman.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:40 pmHere is a list of the people I will converse with on this site. Anyone else who responds to any of my posts will be ignored without question.
If you are on my ” no fly list ” any attempt to communicate with me will be wasted keystrokes on your part.
The reasons for those who are included in my list are as follows.
The short list: Reasons Why
1) You are not up to speed with my intellect and political ability.
2) You 9 times out of 10 add zero to the debate.
3) When faced with bare facts you cannot defend, you resort to slanderous accusations.
4) Your lack of viewing the ” Big Picture ” in politics is astounding to me and the public majority.
5) I question your ability and motives at this thinktank and in life in general.
6) You speak out of turn when I am in a heated debate with a particular poster.
7) You come to the aid and comfort of the defenseless here with even more preposterous, nonfactual claims.
8) When things do not quite go your way in a debate, you scream bloody murder for Judd and cry ” foul ”
9) You defend policies the Democrats believe in because it is in ” vogue ” and is ” fashionable ” knowing full well it is not what is in your heart.
10) You will twist facts, slander other posters with opposing ideas and ideals and generally engage in some form of ” group lynching ” if all does not go well for you.
The ” no fly ” list:
Note: Names on my ” no fly ” list are not to be construed in any particluar order.
Note: I will append my list from time to time as the need arises.
Here are the opening winners.
I give you the ” Dirty Dozen ”
1) Sy Bil
2) ForTruth
3) Trueblue
4) Barfly
5) Unbelievable
6) Briseadh de faire
7) VerbalKnit
8) John Gilpins
9) Krazny
10) Robert
11) Chimpeach
12) DieNowForPeace
I am open to any meaningful and thoughtful debate on any topic on this blog with anyone else with the exception of the above aforementioned.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:41 pmrachel kinnardi,
Please add me to your list.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:50 pmRachel I can’t figure out if I’m someone you’ll talk to, or not.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:54 pmrachel kinnardi what I told Unbelievable is for you too,move!
January 19th, 2007 at 7:54 pmYES!!!! I MADE THE LIST!!!!
All is bliss. All is bliss.
Next time, though, try spelling my name “Kint” not “Knit”.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:08 pmrachel kinnardi, I want to thank for the funniest post I have seen here in quite a well. It’s a real doozy.
To the rest of you, I propose that we offer nominations to what hereafter shall be called The List. I nominate TripMasterMonkey.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:12 pmI knew rachel had the borderline personality.
Now shes cuttin’ and pasting shit.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:17 pmBy the way, although rachel kinnardi starts out by describing a list of people she WILL talk to, it seems clear that her list is of people she WON’T talk to. I note with some interest that she has chosen to call it the “no fly” list; could this be in honor of the utterly phony list used by TSA to harass liberal politicians and anti-war protestors?
January 19th, 2007 at 8:22 pmThanks for the nomination, VerbalKint.
In return, I’d like to nominate you. With any luck, rachel will recuse herself from contact with any of the serious contributors here, and the environment will benefit greatly from it.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:22 pmThanks, Trip.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:26 pmHey!
I want to be added to The List (TM) too!
What do I have to do? Make a factual rebuttal to an asinine, pointless post by rachel b/rachel kinnardi/Angie from GA/Young Texans/etc etc ?
Is that all it takes?
January 19th, 2007 at 8:27 pm9) You defend policies the Democrats believe in because it is in †vogue †and is †fashionable †knowing full well it is not what is in your heart.
Some things just scream projection, and this is one of them.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:28 pmI hereby nominate Gregor Samsa to The List!
By the way, how do you add the cool TM superscript?
January 19th, 2007 at 8:32 pm[…] people whose political skill and prose does not †fly †in the face of true competition (me)
Comment by rachel kinnardi — January 19, 2007 @ 8:32 pm
LOL LOL LOL
This is the best joke so far!
Gregor Samsa, no you get to stay.
No, please -add me to The List (TM). Seriously.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:37 pmVerbalkint,
Use parenthesis to enclose the text you want to superscript…. like (this)
January 19th, 2007 at 8:38 pmGregor Samsa, no you get to stay.
Comment by rachel kinnardi — January 19, 2007 @ 8:32 pm
Gregor, you have my deepest sympathies. I would offer you my spot on The List, but it doesn’t work that way. A place on The List must be earned. You will just have to suffer this vicissitude of fortune. Unless you are willing to get, ahem, dirty, which apparently is a prima facie requirement.
rachel, stop reading my posts
January 19th, 2007 at 8:40 pmThe List(TM)
January 19th, 2007 at 8:40 pmThe ListTM
January 19th, 2007 at 8:44 pmThe List (TM)
Space between “The List” and the first “(”…
January 19th, 2007 at 8:47 pm“…What’s your point?” = Comment by Bluedog49
******Dear BluePuP - I apologize….i gave you too much credit for intelligence in the past. I will type more slowly, so you can understand a bit more easily. AlQaida,as well as many liberals do not believe in democracy for Middle Eastern nation-states. Granted, each group has a different reason - but politics DOES make STRANGE bedfellows……
January 19th, 2007 at 8:50 pmThe List (TM)
January 19th, 2007 at 8:54 pm@ 8:09 pm:
Boing Boing: William Gibson on NSA wiretapping
The interesting thing about meta-projects in the sense in which I used them [in the NYT editorial] is that I don’t think species know what they’re about. …
http://www.boingboing.net/ 2006/ 05/ 12/ william_gibson_on_ns.html - 31k -
http://www.google.com/ search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=%22The+interesting+thing+about+meta-projects%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
January 19th, 2007 at 9:04 pmFriedman has no credibility and his attack is a smokescreen to deflect his huge mistake when he advocated that the war in Iraq was in the best interest of the US. Now he won’t accept that he was 100 percent wrong. Although is true that Bush’s war policies made a bad situation worse, the fact is that there is no way to attack a country, occupy it, and be victorious. As long as foreign forces occupy a country, the mission will fail.
The purpose of the invasion was to occupy Iraq for the long term. That’s why Bush had no exit strategy and built huge bases for the troops. The Iraqi people are not stupid and understood the game from the get-go. Right now the Sunnis are fighting the US troops and the Shiites, but the Shiites are mostly fighting the Sunnis. I’m afraid that if the US does not get out of Iraq, the Sunnis and the Shiites will turn against the US.
January 19th, 2007 at 9:20 pmI am trying to be civil here people.
Do not push it.
Comment by rachel kinnardi — January 19, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
Or what? You’ll take us off The List (TM)? Bring it on, baby! We don’t need no stinkin’ list!
January 19th, 2007 at 9:22 pmBarfly pointed out to me that he thought this rachel troll was another Santo incarnation.
I have anectodal evidence that supports Barfly’s thesis.
Notice who is not on the list………….
January 19th, 2007 at 9:41 pmComment by trueblue
Oh crap!
January 19th, 2007 at 9:43 pmA Friedman ain’t what it use to be, what with inflation. I think General Casey bet one, maybe it was two, on the surge. I don’t know whats worse, betting on a sure loser or being afraid to call. Heres hoping the Dems can get past voting on toothless resolutions and will introduce some sure nuff legislation to bring the troops home.
January 19th, 2007 at 9:59 pmNotice who is not on the list………….
Comment by trueblue — January 19, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
i see that i didn’t make it…
January 19th, 2007 at 10:03 pmcan you share this anecdotal evidence?
Hes right, theres not enough time on this planet for there to be peace in the middle east. Fighting for holy land, if u cant understand that, then you cant understand Arabs.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:22 pmI find it strange that so many leaders or people in position to speak about war claim it is “worth the risk” or “we must sacrifice” and yet we don’t see them risking, or sacrificing ANYTHING.
If they really believed the crap that comes flowing out of their mouths, they would be doing something. If I believed it was a good cause and that it was protecting our freedoms, i would join the fight today. Because I do believe in freedom. I do not believe in the war in Iraq and wish these rich, powerful men and women would learn the meaning of sacrifice and risk and see the young men and women that have died becasue of their belief in sacrifice.
I noticed a show the other day that had several military/soldiers which were interviewed. they all mentioned they are fighting for our freedom…our american freedom. They are still brainwashed into believing this is about our freedom. the remaining supporters of bush seem to think this is about our freedom. Iraq had nothing to do with attacking our freedoms. Now we push our view of freedom onto them.
A christian country pushing their ideas on a muslim country. Does anyone understand the problem there? this is a sure way to strengthen the muslims that are not currently together, cause them to come together and put america into more danger. Bush, wake up. Bush, you are such an idiot and we see this behavior in most people that claim to follow some One True God. The closer their relationship to a god the more likely they are to behave like Bush…like idiots…like thier gods of war.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:47 pm#73 - “Also, your “liberal†friends you hang out with always sound very caricaturesque.
I suspect they are about as real as your family and career in the legal field; meaning not at all.” Comment by Gregor Samsa
******Grgrrrr - Wrong again. My friend is quite a character - not a caricature. She is smart and occasionally humourous. (Her “liberal” friends can’t believe I am “so nice, yet so misguided.”) But you Grgrrrr, don’t disappoint - as usual, the BEST you can do is NOT address my point made in #66….psssst….purely ad hominem attacks show you have NO argument. Checkmate…..
January 19th, 2007 at 11:00 pm#126 - “The purpose of the invasion was to occupy Iraq for the long term.”
Comment by Prabhata
******Did you think this up all by yourself or did you simply cut-and-paste from the DNC website?? AlQaida wants to occupy Iraq and the rest of the Caliphate…….but the Ottoman Empire deserved to die a fairly quick death with their allegiance firmly in the camp of Germany. It’s called the spoils of war……. To set you straight - the purpose of the invasion was to get rid of Saddam Hussein. This plan was hatched by Bill Clinton and with good reason - his development of WMD’s and his refusal to comply with UN Resolution 647 from April 1991 (AKA as a “cease fire”) Ask unbelievable what it means…..she’s still learning the concept…………
January 19th, 2007 at 11:14 pmYes indeed–Friedman’s reputation is totally shot. He was once a respected columnist for the once respected New York Times.
Friedman’s relentless cheerleading for Bush’s run-up to WAR in 2002 and 2003 provided cover for Bush / Cheney / Rumsfeld / Rice / Wolfowitz / Perl. His actions fueled the War that led to hellhole that is Iraq today.
Bush says, “Nice job, Tommie.”
January 19th, 2007 at 11:40 pmAnd our socially limited friend, Sponge Cake ! (not much doing in Orange County, huh?) Well, I didn’t think you’d address the assertion that many liberals DON’T believe Muslims have the capability to live in a democracy….Thanks for not allowing me to over-estimate you
#144 - Dear Outraged, It’s been awhile since the New York Times was highly respected…..so I guess your point is predictably meaningless…..
Tooooodles…….
January 19th, 2007 at 11:57 pmmighty a–
If you love Bush and his War, there’s a batallion heading to Baghdad with a spot for you.
Your clever smart ass comments will be come in very handy, as you fight the War that you think is a big joke.
January 20th, 2007 at 12:12 amCapitalism is incapable of democracy, just like how mighty aphordite is incapable of having a conscious.
Oh yes!! Everyone can just open a business and make a great amount of money, if only we didn’t have any taxes……….
January 20th, 2007 at 12:39 amreally, how naive i was to think there might be a break after november…
ok… bring it on… never give up…
Comment by katy #3
katy,
…many people marched against the war and detested Bushiva and L’il Dick from the very start…
…because we knew these basta*ds were a cancer…
…America has cancer, and you don’t beat cancer with a defeatist attitude (not saying you have one, you just seem understandably “overwhelmed”)…
…we have to keep up the good fight everyday…
… our country (the majority of its people), our government, our way of life and the promise of our ancestors…
…are worth it…
…no way we allow these right wing fascist corporate criminal TREASONOUS mofos to beat us girl!
January 20th, 2007 at 1:01 amWhat a shmuck.
January 20th, 2007 at 1:20 amI’ like to piss on his leg.
Friedman is a paid political hack and zionist Bushite who*e…
…like all of the media “face time” who*es spouting their right wing talking points…
…ANY talk about Muslims and democracy is pure right wing neo-conned’self-servative bullsh*t…
…notice in their screeds they NEVER mention the foundation of Islamic law…
…Shari’ah…
…because they want us to believe that Muslims are “uncivilized”, without established legal principles, feral children in need of a paternal benevolent WHITE MAN to lead them out of the “darkness”…
…Friedman, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Mighty Aphrodite and all of their kind are soulless demons (truly)…
…their god, their rule of law, their moral compass…
…all revolve around money, power, and superiority…
…why do you think the media is doing everything it can to make you HATE Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Ahmadinejad, L’il Kim, poor Mexicans, Syrians, people who have really done no personal harm to you…
…while ignoring Saudis (15 of whom supposedly killed a little under 3,000 people in NYC, D.C. and PA on 9/11) ?
…because the Chavezs, Ahmadinejads, and Castros no longer allow their countries to be raped and pillaged by U.S. al Crackker corporate pirates, who subverted their countries’ TRAITORS to do the pirates’ dirty work…
…Lou Dobbs tonight called Hugo Chavez a dictator…
…funny given the fact that Chavez won 63% of his people’s vote, takes care of his country’s poor, and even provides this HOSTILE nation’s poor with discounted fuel…
…and Bushiva STOLE TWO elections, ignores this country’s poor and gives tax breaks to the already profit-bloated oil and natural gas thugs…
…and who’s the dictator?
…sh*t these al Crackker corporate TRAITORS are playing us ALL like Stradivarius fiddles…
…THINK!
…but then again, ignorance really is bliss…
January 20th, 2007 at 1:38 amas usual, the BEST you can do is NOT address my point made in #66….psssst….purely ad hominem attacks show you have NO argument. Checkmate…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 19, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
What point did you make? Did you have one to begin with?
If you are talking about your opinions on liberals, well, those are just that -opinions. Wrong and misguided as usual, but opinions nonetheless.
And it’s rich you should recognise ad hominem attacks mean the opponent has no argument, because that is exactly what your comments always are: Ad hominem attacks. Your posts in this thread are no exception.
Your chess skills are sorely wanting. Better luck next time.
January 20th, 2007 at 2:12 amNotice how Friedman reflexively invokes “liberal” in the pejorative. He broad-brushes all liberals as anti-democracy while (1) failing to acknowledge it was more than just “liberals” who had a problem with his experiment in privatizing a country, and (2) failing to distinguish true democracy that evolves via the will of the people from a shallow, propagandized version of it he wanted to shove down their throats.
He employs some of the Bush regime’s favorite tactics by erecting the straw man of “liberals” viewing Arab democracy as utterly impossible while ignoring one of the choices with which some of us “liberals” may not have a problem: democracy being spread the old-fashioned way using diplomacy and patience. His reference to the invasion and occupation of another country as a “project”, as if it were merely some business venture to him, betrays his arrogance and utter disregard for the human tragedy of this.
And this simpleton reasoning that some opposed the war only because Bush was for it is yet another example of the two sides, left-right banality that permeates his thought process and that of the rest of the MSM.
January 20th, 2007 at 2:13 amWell, I didn’t think you’d address the assertion that many liberals DON’T believe Muslims have the capability to live in a democracy….
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 19, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
Oh, I will address it for Spudge_Boy. Opinions are like rear ends: Everybody has one.
Your “assertion” has no basis in reality. Until you can provide evidence of the babble you spew here at ThinkProgress, your opinion remains only that. Even a faux lawyer like you should be aware of that fact.
And by evidence I mean, oh, say, working links, you know, the kind that actually takes to a page with relevant information in it -unlike the links you usually provide that are either unformatted, broken, old, or have no relevant information whatsoever.
January 20th, 2007 at 2:24 amDear Tp Staff,
Is their anything more that can be done by you and your posters to make me more comfortable in my stay here at TP?
They seem to be full of vitriol and hatred for one another and the fervor is at a fever pitch and well, to be honest, some are just down right rude and nasty here at TP.
I dont feel like I am getting my moneys worth as a taxpaying United States citizen.
I hope you will look into this slight at your earliest convenience.
I paid for this and I am not getting my moneys worth.
I demand recompense.
Somehow until then I will manage to muddle through, but this blogging hobby is starting to become a burden and well you know, I just think you could try harder to make me more comfortable here since after all,it is my hard earned tax dollars funding this site. I just dont feel you are doing enough to make my stay here amiable and pleasurable like your ad stated on the box. Truth in advertising is the law.
I will forgive this mishap this time, but in the future please look into and perhaps sponsor starter academic programs for a select few posters here, perhaps offer simple courses like:
Note - 1 semester equals 6 months
1) People Skills 101 - 1 semester
2) How to Debate and Win! - I II III IV - 4 semesters
3) Know When to Say When - I II III IV - 4 semesters
4) The Basics of Ebb and Flow - I II III IV - 4 semesters
5) Priciples of Sharing - I II III IV - 4 semesters
6) Gift of Knowledge - I II III IV - 4 semesters
7) Communications for the Masses -I II III IV - 4 semesters
I will look forward to your reply in a memo here.
January 20th, 2007 at 6:25 amI have saved money on Friedman. I never bought any of his books. When he was gazing into his crystal ball every six months waiting for the happy hours and the glowing sunsets he forsaw with Kristol, Krauthammer, Will and their inspired colleagues, while they let fall from the lofty heights of their always so right, “beliefs,” I discovered there are thinking people left in this world.
January 20th, 2007 at 8:34 amThey survived, alone in the forest of rejection, never appearing on the flat screens, suffered ink rationing, scribbled on almost underground news sheets.
However, now that the brillant analysis of our enlightened elite have proved to be ribald jokes they continue to drool their inane “beliefs” on the working poor. Fortunately some of the latter have retained a few functioning brain cells, capting through the static of the MSM information based on facts.
Our great editorialists should not despair. Bill O’OReilly will offer up a re-heated “War on Xmas” again this year, something they can get their teeth into. We could send them camoflage suits to really get the “war” spirit.
It has nothing to do with religion - it’s about region.
I don’t think you can make the Middle East American Democratic. But that has everything to do with the fact that they are not Americans, their culture is hierarchical and not lateral (which is what a true Democracy is…. Not that we are even one ourselves…), and that they have a more highly dense population competing over fewer natural resources, therefore rendering them highly competitive to the point at which they are… Not us. Sheesh.
This argument has NOTHING to do with Muslims. Nothing.
January 20th, 2007 at 8:41 amUnbelievable ,what don’t you like about Raw Story? Join us.
January 20th, 2007 at 9:31 amUnbelievable, you don’t belong here, you deserve better, move your knowledge to Raw Story, better comments on the boards up to your level, exclusive news you wont find here at TP, don’t waste yourself in here move to a better blog. Ciao dear. Just read the comments above and you should know why it’s time to move.
Appears that Rachel needs a hug. Someone give Oprah a call.
January 20th, 2007 at 9:44 amFriedman Blasts Liberals, Claims They Believe Arabs Are ‘Incapable Of Democracy’ »
No, its that arabs are simply incapable of a democracy we approve of. There is democracy in palestine, its just not the type of democracy we like.
The vast majority of TP Prog regulars would love to have Saddam’s railroads “running on time†and his brand of “law and orderâ€. What do you care about WMD’s or mass graves….the answer: not alot. A Progi Human Rights Motto: “Human Rights Be Damnedâ€. -aphrodite
Uhm, there were no WMD’s. They are highly ineffective weapons, more a tool of psychological fear than actual logistical effectiveness. Saddam would have been a fool to keep them with the consequences for being caught with them being so high… Say what you want about Saddam, someone who was born a shepard and ends up taking over a country isnt a fool..
Hey you delusional Afromite troll, read #8.
Saddam was “the lesser of two evils” , if you had any higher reasoning you could understand that.
Is there any amount of Iraqis or Americans that will die in this conflict before you will concede that this war took more life than saddam did?
Oh, and how many of those “mass graves” did Us weapons help fill?
If saddam was such a hitleresque dictator, why wasnt he held accountable for more than 148 deaths? Is it because the real prosecution (the Us government) was complicit in many of the crimes? Yes it was.
In Saddam’s Iraq, if you didnt get involved in politics, chances are, you would be ok. No paradise, but at least things were functioning decently, and you had a pretty good idea of what it took to avoid trouble. Now, anyone and everyone in Iraq not safely tucked in the green Spin ZOne could be killed at any time, simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or having the wrong last name.
Which do you prefer, Saddam or an islamic theocracy run by the parties poster # 8 mentioned? Do you really and truly think “Human Rights” are being respected in Iraq now? Men are being killed for WEARING SHORTS and SHAVING BEARDS. Christian churches are being firebombed. Women are being visciously attacked for not wearing veils. And the people violating these human rights are part of the DEMOCRACTICALLY elected government of iraq.
Honestly, please tell me how exactly it is that you forsee Iraq becoming a shining beacon for human rights? And why Iraq? Why arent you worried so much about human rights in Darfur? Can you name all the places in the world that genocide is currently occuring that far eclipses whatever killing saddam did?
The ironic thing is, your and saddam’s thinking about “koranimals” is pretty similar… kill em al and let god/allah sort em out…
January 20th, 2007 at 10:39 am…no way we allow these right wing fascist corporate criminal TREASONOUS mofos to beat us girl!
Comment by big papa — January 20, 2007 @ 1:01 am
thank you, big papa, for your kind words and encouragement…
January 20th, 2007 at 12:06 pmi’m with you - NO WAY!
5) Unbelievable
Comment by rachel kinnardi — January 19, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
It’s not capitalized.
January 20th, 2007 at 12:31 pmrachel kinnardi what I told Unbelievable is for you too,move!
Comment by Blog Veteran — January 19, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
Who are you?
Move? Nope.
January 20th, 2007 at 12:32 pmSen. Ted #155,
I see you’re up bright and early this Saturday morning. I hope you are using this morning to read the bipartisan Senate Resolution by Hagel & Biden, which addresses the folly of escalating Bush’s fiasco in Iraq. Read every word. Then you must join the growing overwhelming opposition in Congress–on both sides of the aisle–to Bush’s immoral plan to expand his War.
You need to join your Republican colleague from Alaska–Sen. Lisa Murkowski. She now opposes Bush’s War and said so in the Senate Foreign Relations Comm hearing. Time to get with the program, Sen. Ted.
January 20th, 2007 at 12:41 pmJust read the comments above and you should know why it’s time to move.
Comment by Blog Veteran — January 20, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Thanks for the compliment.
I understand you’re frustration. I’ve just gotten good at scrolling past the nonsense, I suppose.
I did read the above comments as you suggested. Sounds like rachel/angie/patricia/et al is desperate for control. Sad.
I’m willing to give Judd the benefit of the doubt. It’s what I would want if I were in his shoes and the 20%ers were trying to scare everyone away.
I’d rather stay and support TP by continuing to post comments that upset the trolls, and support the liberal cause for change. But thanks. I do appreciate the invitation.
January 20th, 2007 at 12:41 pmFriedman should be canned, what an ASS.
January 20th, 2007 at 12:46 pmGot to admit Friedman is consistent.
Wrong each and every time!
January 20th, 2007 at 12:51 pmI think Friedman forgot to mention another reason people opposed the war: they were clear-eyed enough to see it was a dumb idea that drew attention away from terrorists to pursue an unneccessary war that hemorraged blood and treasure to make us less safe, and possibly Middle East instability and to civil war.
Friedman recognized all these things, too. He was just, as he himself admitted, was taken by Bush’s confident, Clint Eastwood swagger, that he got cha