Conservative Senators Attempt To Abolish Federal Minimum Wage And Pass Tax Breaks For Businesses
Conservative Senators Attempt To Abolish Federal Minimum Wage And Pass Tax Breaks For Businesses
Yesterday, a minority group of conservative senators killed a clean minimum wage bill that would have raised the federal minimum wage to $7.25 an hour. Instead, the Senate will now be voting on a “compromise” bill that will pair a minimum wage increase with tax breaks for small businesses.
Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY) justified his opposition to the clean bill by stating, “We’re trying to make sure we don’t put mom-and-pop businesses and their employees out of work.” President Bush has also said that won’t support a wage increase without business tax breaks because he “punish the millions of small businesses that are creating most of the new jobs in our country.”
But their objections to a clean minimum wage increase are based on myths:
MYTH #1 — Raising the minimum wage will hurt businesses. A study by the Center for American Progress found that employment in small businesses, the number of small businesses, and inflation-adjusted small business payroll growth grew more in states with higher minimum wages than federal minimum wage states. Almost 300 large and small business owners across the country have signed on to Business for a Fair Minimum Wage, which is pushing Congress to raise the federal minimum wage. A recent Gallup poll found that “three out of four small businesses said that an increase in the minimum wage would have no effect on their company.”
MYTH #2 — Businesses can’t afford to give workers a wage increase. In the past 10 years, Congress has “showered corporations with $276 billion in tax breaks, plus another $36 billion aimed exclusively at small businesses.” Steven Pearlstein of the Washington Post adds that even though the Bush administration has gifted declining tax rates to small businesses over the past several years, “according to the Internal Revenue Service, small-business owners, sole proprietors and the self-employed are, as a group, the biggest tax cheats in America, responsible for $153 billion of the estimated $345 billion tax gap in 2001.”
Today, some conservative senators tried to go even further by completely abolishing the federal minimum wage. Amendments no. 158 by Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) and no. 116 by Sen. Wayne Allard (R-CO) would have allowed the states to set their own minimum wage levels.
Send a message to your senators voicing support for a clean minimum wage increase.
(Bob Geiger has more.)
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Kill the conservative measure. Do the right thing and pay a decent wage for a decent job performance. Businesses don’t need yet more tax breaks. This is insane and should not pass. Raise the frigging minimum wage.
January 25th, 2007 at 5:43 pmI contacted Senator Reid yesterday to encourage him to insist Repubs embark on a real non-stop filibuster to the clean minimum wage bill.
I don’t think many of them will hold their ground when it requires being on the floor of the Senate at 3:00 AM on Sunday morning and having to explain to their constituents why they felt someone making $5.15 an hour didn’t need a pay increase enough to embark on that non-stop filibuster to prevent it.
We should make them really filibuster rather than just allow them to threaten to do so.
January 25th, 2007 at 5:46 pmI wonder if those Senators who feel states should set their own minimum wages and there should be no federal minimum wage would be willing to work for the minimum wage in Washington, D.C. — and if D.C. doesn’t have their own, then would they work for $0?
January 25th, 2007 at 5:48 pmWe should make them really filibuster rather than just allow them to threaten to do so.
Comment by DS
Excellent idea =)
January 25th, 2007 at 5:52 pmMake them go one record as being the ones that filibustered and try to explain it to the voters at home.
If Ted Kennedy was any kind of a man at all he would take his name off of any minimum wage bill.
This is why the democrats will NEVER pass a federal minimum wage bill.
Because it has his name on it. They will never allow a Kennedy to take party credit for making that happen.
If Ted really cared about his voters and the party in general he would step up to the plate, admit it is his name that is keeping it from happening and let the little guys win for a change.
Republicans are more than welcome to this federal minimum wage bill, the only unspoken stipulation being that if Teds name was removed from any and all renditions of it, it would have passed with a majority vote on both sides of the aisle.
Ted Kennedy is holding up the country in his quest for his 15 minutes of ” mini stardom ” while he holds the minimum wage earners hostage.
January 25th, 2007 at 5:55 pmI agree a clean bill is best but if you don’t do a little horsetrading you don’t get anywhere - that’s the reality of the situation - if we have to give a few tax breaks to small business what’s the fuss?? Small business owners are people too. As long as the workers get the wage increase that’s fine with me. Keep your eye on the ball folks!
If the Dems were really serious about helping workers they could do some horsetrading of their own and in return for the tax breaks the Repubs are asking for insist on a bill that indexes the minimum wage to the CPI (with food and energy costs a part of the formula). That way we wouldn’t have to revisit this old saw every 5-10 years.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:03 pmOscar, that’s about the strangest bit of nonsense I’ve seen all day. Where in the world did you hear this interesting theory of yours? First of all, Ted Kennedy doesn’t need 15 minutes of fame. He’s been famous for over 40 years. Secondly, bills are numbered. When they come up for a vote the legislation is named by number. Third, other democrats have proposed raising the minimum wage many, many times. Russ Fiengold has proposed this before. Are you saying repubs have problems with Kennedy’s name AND Feingold’s name or did they reject Feingold’s proposal for other reasons?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:04 pmI never cease to be disgusted by the greedy pigs with tiny genitalia on the Right.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:05 pmDeMint and Allard should be awarded the Civics Congressional Medal of Honor for taking that stance. You people just wouldnt know greatness if it reached up and slapped you right across the face. Glory be! You democrats are insufferable moors.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pmIt’s simple economics. If overhead increases you have to compensate by raising prices or letting people go to cover the cost. You can pick up any economics book for that tid bit. And if prices go up, then raising the minimum wage would have done no good at all.
My problem is the government telling a business owner how much he has to pay someone to do a job. How much to pay someone to sweep a floor. It’s wrong. If a person does not want to sweep a floor for minimum wage, then he can negotiate with the business owner or he can look for a better job. If the business owner can’t find someone to sweep the floor for the minimum he will have to go up on the wage. Free market is wonderful.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pmHorsetrading???!!! What happened to the impassioned pleas for “up or down votes?” What about the horrors of attaching riders derailing meaningful legislation. I thought these issues were important to repubs. Why is a filibuster fine if a repub does it but a crime if a Democrat does it?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:07 pmBluedog49
And Ted Kennedy has been trying to get this passed for the last 6 years!
You are informing me of nothing new dear. I am informing you remember?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:08 pmKevin,
Try living in the real world with the rest of us. Theories don’t feed your family.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:09 pmHelen: “Glory be! You democrats are insufferable moors.”
Land o’goshen! You hayseed, shitheal christians are such insufferable idiots.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:10 pmoscar = rachel/angie/patricia
January 25th, 2007 at 6:11 pmThen inform me, oh wise Oscar. Why have repubs rejected minimum wage hikes proposed by people other than Kennedy? We await your razor-sharp reasoning.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:11 pmThe George Will suggestion of setting the minimum wage to zero? Yea right. I guess these conservatives forgot who won the election.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:12 pmMYTH #1 — Raising the minimum wage will hurt businesses. A study by the Center for American Progress found that employment in small businesses, the number of small businesses, and inflation-adjusted small business payroll growth grew more in states with higher minimum wages than federal minimum wage states. Almost 300 large and small business owners across the country have signed on to Business for a Fair Minimum Wage, which is pushing Congress to raise the federal minimum wage. A recent Gallup poll found that “three out of four small businesses said that an increase in the minimum wage would have no effect on their company.â€
What’s more, generally its the big corporations, not the small businesses, who are paying the lowest possible wages to the folks at the bottom of their operation. In a small business, the relationship is more personal and more typically leads to a fairer wage which, obviously, is higher than that sorry excuse for a minimum wage we have now. So, raising the minium wage will actually help small business. Because, by keeping the minium wage low, we make it harder for business who pay their workers a fairer wage (i.e. small business) to compete with those who pay only the current minimum (i.e. you know who).
January 25th, 2007 at 6:12 pmHorsetrading???!!! What happened to the impassioned pleas for “up or down votes?†What about the horrors of attaching riders derailing meaningful legislation. I thought these issues were important to repubs. Why is a filibuster fine if a repub does it but a crime if a Democrat does it?
Comment by Bluedog49
Excellent point, Bluedog49!
January 25th, 2007 at 6:13 pmWhat’s good for the goose…..
Let’s see, they’re not in favor of minimum wages, they don’t like the idea of unions… that’s todays conservatives — buttboys for corporate power.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:14 pmLand o’goshen! You hayseed, shitheal christians are such insufferable idiots.
Comment by Bluedog49 — January 25, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
Indeed…
Jesus would really be proud of this greedy lot.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:15 pmTotally off topic.
Bucking U.S., Afghanistan won’t spray heroin
Karzai reportedly would spray fields in 2008 if harvest doesn’t decline
Updated: 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
KABUL, Afghanistan - Rebuffing months of U.S. pressure, President Hamid Karzai has decided Afghanistan will not implement a Colombia-style program to spray the country’s heroin-producing poppies, bowing to pressure from top Cabinet members who feared a popular backlash, officials said Thursday.
WTF? He’s gonna wait for Bush to be gone before he sprays the poppy fields? I’m sure I’m just wearing a tinfoil hat, right?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:17 pmIf raising the minimum wage has disasterous consequences, how come we survived all the previous increases?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:19 pmAllard and DeMint thinks it’s best to race to the bottom of the wage scale. Gotta outdo China.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:20 pmAmendments no. 158 by Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) and no. 116 by Sen. Wayne Allard (R-CO) would have allowed the states to set their own minimum wage levels.
Appalling how those from states with troubled economies (CO) and high poverty (SC) only want to make it worse for their constituents…
January 25th, 2007 at 6:20 pmTed Kennedy blow his top today in the senate. TP should post the clip.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:20 pmComment by Helen Mondayle = Rachel
January 25th, 2007 at 6:21 pmI’m sure I’m just wearing a tinfoil hat, right?
Comment by ForTruth — January 25, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
And matching undies (I hear the waves used to read you brain can also make you sterile).
January 25th, 2007 at 6:22 pmFinally, the GOP is doing their job: STOPPING the anti-business, pro class warfare left. The economy is ROARING. Raising the minimum wage will hurt business and cause higher unemployment among the poor.
Amanda - your lies are saddening. How do you sleep at night?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:23 pmI agree a clean bill is best but if you don’t do a little horsetrading you don’t get anywhere - that’s the reality of the situation - if we have to give a few tax breaks to small business what’s the fuss?? Small business owners are people too. As long as the workers get the wage increase that’s fine with me. Keep your eye on the ball folks!
Comment by Frank - An American Patriot — January 25, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
The Democrats don’t have to horse-trade with anyone. They can accommodate these senators by offering two separate bills, one for the minimum wage and one for tax breaks. The Senate can then have an up or down vote on the separate bills. Whatever passes, goes to the president where he can either sign it into law or veto it.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:24 pmAnd matching undies (I hear the waves used to read you brain can also make you sterile).
Comment by unbelievable
No worries, I’ve been snipped already.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:26 pmJust got an email from Wayne Schneider.
Jane has pneumonia.
Wayne has a chest infection, it’s probably bronchitis right now.
They wanted everyone to know why they haven’t been around, and to say they should be back next week.
Let’s all send them good thoughts, OK?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:27 pmAmanda - your lies are saddening. How do you sleep at night?
Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists
I bet she could run circles around your Rachel-ass.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:27 pm“three out of four small businesses said that an increase in the minimum wage would have no effect on their company.â€
If 25% (one of four) of small businesses would be effected, that would have a substantial impact on our economy and the thousands of minimun wage workers that would be displaced or simply not hired due to that portion of small businesses that would have to make the cuts to remain profitable.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:29 pmMy problem is businesses not paying workers who actually create the profits, enough to make ends meet.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:31 pmAlmost 300 large and small business owners across the country have signed on to Business for a Fair Minimum Wage.
This is a very small number, compared to the millions of small business owners in the U.S.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:31 pmIn the past 10 years, Congress has “showered corporations with $276 billion in tax breaks.
When you give someone a tax break, you are not giving them money, you are taking less of their money. What does this have to do with small businesses ability to absorb the cost of being federally mandated to pay it’s workers more money?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:34 pmPaul at comment #38, read comment #18
January 25th, 2007 at 6:38 pmFinally, the GOP is doing their job: STOPPING the anti-business, pro class warfare left. The economy is ROARING. Raising the minimum wage will hurt business and cause higher unemployment among the poor.
Amanda - your lies are saddening. How do you sleep at night?
Comment by Liberals Heart Terrorists — January 25, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
The economy is roaring and yet Bush’s approval ratings on the economy are in low to mid 30s where they have been for much of his presidency.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:38 pmthe biggest tax cheats in America?
You could argue, respectfully, the biggest tax cheats are those who take the money that you have earned and either waste it (you can include the war in Iraq; if you think that is a waste) or treat it as a gift that they can give back to you.
The money you earn, is your money. It is not our money. Small, but very important point.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:40 pmIf 25% (one of four) of small businesses would be effected, that would have a substantial impact on our economy […]
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
Paul, Paul, Paul…. so 25% have a greater impact on the economy than the remaining 75%?
Please, think before you click “Post”.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:43 pmEskwaya. Thanks for pointing out your post. I read it the first time, but it didn’t sink in. I’m not sure if I am convinced about your argument, but after the second read, I must admit that it is a very interesting point. I will think about it.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:44 pmIt’s simple economics. If overhead increases you have to compensate by raising prices or letting people go to cover the cost. You can pick up any economics book for that tid bit. And if prices go up, then raising the minimum wage would have done no good at all.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
When you raise the minimum wage, lower income people (who usually spend 100 percent of their earnings) will have more spending power to buy products from these small businesses.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:47 pmForTruth: “If raising the minimum wage has disasterous consequences, how come we survived all the previous increases?”
Ah, yes, critical thinking. It’s so refreshing.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:54 pmNat: “When you raise the minimum wage, lower income people (who usually spend 100 percent of their earnings) will have more spending power to buy products from these small businesses.”
Absolutely! One of our most famous capitalists, Henry Ford, had an interesting idea: pay your workers enough to buy the product you make and you will sell more product.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:56 pmThis is a very small number, compared to the millions of small business owners in the U.S.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
One of the signatories is Costco’s CEO, another is Eileen Fisher’s CEO, and yet another is the CEO for the US Women’s Chamber of Commerce. From the USWCC’s website:
Representing the financial interests of more than 23 million small business owners and 450,000 members across the country, the U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce is working every day to open the doors to economic and leadership opportunities.
To be blunt, we don’t do luncheons for big corporate sponsors. Our goals are much larger. The USWCC provides strategic leadership aimed at creating real progress.
About the U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce (TM)
http://www.uswcc.org/html/uswcc-about-us.aspx
What were you saying about a “small number” again?
January 25th, 2007 at 6:57 pmGregor Samsa. I respect your opinion, but I don’t think you understand my point. Let me illustrate like this:
What if:
3 out of 4 Americans say they don’t have AIDS or lifestyles that make it likely that they will get AIDS. (Hence, it wouldn’t be significant if we just cut all funding for AIDS research.) I submit that it would be signicant for the 1 in 4 (of a large population) that either did have AIDS or lifestyles that increase their risk for the disease. In this case, the 1 in 4 doesn’t necessarily have greater impact than the 3 in 4, but the impact is significant, non-the-less.
January 25th, 2007 at 6:58 pmMy problem is the government telling a business owner how much he has to pay someone to do a job. How much to pay someone to sweep a floor. It’s wrong. If a person does not want to sweep a floor for minimum wage, then he can negotiate with the business owner or he can look for a better job. If the business owner can’t find someone to sweep the floor for the minimum he will have to go up on the wage. Free market is wonderful.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
It would be a quick race to the bottom if it were left up to the corporations alone.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:00 pmPaul, ForTruth expressed this simple fact above and I want to expand on it. The minimum wage has been raised scores of times over the decades since its inception. There is no example of this either causing more unemployment or reducing the number of minimum wage jobs in the market. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED. Yet, conservatives make the same argument every time someone suggests we raise it. Doesn’t that seem a little strange to you?
January 25th, 2007 at 7:03 pmso it would only cover the raise in price of the products. See how that works.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:04 pmAny tax consideration given small businesses in conjunction with an increase in the minimum wage is a crime and typical of the Repug’s protection of their Corporate Daddy’s. Look for a moment at the situation as it is: a small business pays wages and deducts those wages, among other expenses, from their gross income to determine their taxable income. Every increase in expenses results in a decrease in tax liability so the small business is not hurt. For the Pizza Palace offering free delivery in Bullhead City, Arizona the cost of gasoline far exceeds the cost of paying the delivery boy. The Repug thieves do not offer a tax break to the Pizza Palace when the cost of gasoline goes up. I wonder why!
January 25th, 2007 at 7:07 pmIf the business owner can’t find someone to sweep the floor for the minimum he will have to go up on the wage. Free market is wonderful.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
Or will hire an illegal alien to do it. No minimum wage. No benefits. No overtime compensation.
Free market is wonderful indeed.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:07 pmso it would only cover the raise in price of the products. See how that works.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
Prices will only rise by a few cents.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:10 pmKevin and Paul, in case you missed it, it was reported about 2 months ago and TP covered it, the most recent studies showed that states with higher minimum wages had better economies. In fact, Albequerque, New Mexico instituted a “living wage” I think two years ago and has experienced a huge upturn in their local economy. Here’s a thought: instead of adhering to your Heritage Foundation or Cato Insitute dogma, why not look at the real world and see how these things really work and what has happened in the past.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:11 pmThen close the boarder. I don’t have a problem going after business that hires illegal aliens. Have at it.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:12 pm“But if you ask for a rise
January 25th, 2007 at 7:12 pmthere’s no surprise
that they’re giving none away”
If pure conservatism was followed things would be fair, competitive, and operate with integrity.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:13 pmI respect your opinion, but I don’t think you understand my point.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
I do understand your point. You are arguing that the increase in the minimum wage will increase unemployment and create job loss.
Problem is, that is another myth that has already been debunked.
What I don’t understand is why you insist on arguing points that have been proven false. It’s like you enjoy been debunked even before you post. That would set a new speed record for conservative posters on ThinkProgress…
January 25th, 2007 at 7:15 pmI hope someone covers Senator Kennedy’s outburst this afternoon. It was spellbinding as he ripped up the republicans.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:17 pmThose damn Republics are always trying to shove some type of tax break into every bill that they can. Maybe the Democrats should have countered with eliminating and/or decreasing Social Security benefits to anyone with more that $2,000,000 worth of assets even if their children are worth that much. The bush/cheney cartel doesn’t need SS benefits. That’s why they want to take SS benefits away from everyone else.
3,064 coffins draped with flags and the number increases daily.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:18 pmSo in your “real world†you want the government to be able to force a business owner to pay a wage. You’re ok with giving the government that power. If you want to let the government control you like that, then there is no hope for you.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:18 pmThen close the boarder. I don’t have a problem going after business that hires illegal aliens. Have at it.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
No need to close the border. Just throw business owners in jail for one year for every illegal immigrant they hire. That will solve the problem.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:20 pmGreat line. I love Darkside of the moon. The thing is you don’t ask for a raise, you earn it. And if you need the government to force your boss to do it, you are a loser.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:21 pmSpudge: “Prices are gonna rise whether you raise minimum wage anyway.”
Good point! If Kevin’s grand theory were correct, prices shouldn’t have risen at all over the last 10 years since there has been no increase in the minimum wage.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:22 pmKevin: “If you want to let the government control you like that, then there is no hope for you.”
Kevin, you’re the one who wants the government to be able to force a woman to carry a baby to term against her will, so you’re on rather shaky ground there with that argument. I’m the one who wants government to stay true to what our founders intended: of the people, by the people and for the people. I’m the one who agrees with the words, “promote the general welfare.”
January 25th, 2007 at 7:25 pmRight on Kevin,
It’s nice to be able to start out with a little more. Yeah you can earn the raises, but if you start out higher, all the raises will be just that much better.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:25 pmAnd if you need the government to force your boss to do it, you are a loser.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
Do you actually live at the Magic Kingdom?
No one with so much as a minor grasp on reality actually supports your point-of-view. Because it’s completely devoid of facts or reality.
The rich have and are taking advantage of the working class. Go google ‘Bolshevik Revolution’, ‘French Revolution’, and ‘American Revolution’ to learn more…
January 25th, 2007 at 7:26 pmSo in your “real world†you want the government to be able to force a business owner to pay a wage.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
The government is not telling any business how much to pay. They are telling businesses what they cannot do: Business owners cannot pay their employees salaries under a certain threshold; anything above that, they are free to pay.
And if you need the government to force your boss to do it, you are a loser.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
So if you need the government to force your boss to stop workplace discrimination, sexual harrassment, you are a “loser”?
That is the task of the government -any government: To watch over the well-being of its citizens. Which includes setting a decent minimum wage level.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:27 pm9 out of 10 times the Congress is crying for and defending Businesses..This is the first time in almost 12 years that the Congress remembred the non powerful,non infuencial and almost forgotten worker. Had Republicans won in November, this subject will not be even under discussion. Every time the subject of helping the lowest on the pay scale surfaces, the same argument is used..’..it does not help businsesses …,based on such assumption, then the little worker will never ,ever see raise again. Most of these people work in food franchices..if the bosses at the top reaping good bonuses for so many years, then it is about time that the little guy is remembered… Senators and Congressm members got pay raise themselves ’several times…they have the power to raise themselves..It is about time ,and it is long over due to stand by the people at the bottom of the wage scale.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:27 pmYou really hate business owners. I would settle for $50,000 per alien. But we still need to close the boarder.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:28 pmGood point! If Kevin’s grand theory were correct, prices shouldn’t have risen at all over the last 10 years since there has been no increase in the minimum wage.
Comment by Bluedog49 — January 25, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
A business teacher at my school actually tried to make this argument. And this is a generally liberal woman who worked for a Fortune 500 company before getting into teaching… The conservative spin machine is strong…
January 25th, 2007 at 7:28 pmYou have never heard me say anything about abortion except that the government should never pay for it.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:30 pmKevin, if you RAISE the minimum wage it will stimulate the economy and put more money into the hands of the poorest in society so they can live a better life. That’s a win-win proposition.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:32 pmBut we still need to close the boarder.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
B-O-R-D-E-R
No such word as boarder.
East Germany closed their borders once… You might have heard about it in a Pink Floyd song?
January 25th, 2007 at 7:32 pmBluedog49. There is obviously more to economies than labor cost, but it is also obviously a factor. The logic that all you have to do to improve growth is to raise the minimum wage doesn’t really hold true when you consider that both the U.K. and France have minimum wages double that of the U.S. and economies that are less robust. (In the case of France, 10% unemployment compared to our 4% rate).
Also, I understand the Heritage Foundation and Cato Institute are conservative organizations. Are you are aware that the Center for American Progress (the source for the study you are sighting) is a liberal organization?
January 25th, 2007 at 7:32 pmYou really hate business owners.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
No Kevin. I believe in conservative parlance, it’s called being tough on crime.
I’d advocate a “three strikes, you’re out” approach to curbing the hiring of illegal immigrants by business owners.
::sarcastic grin::
January 25th, 2007 at 7:33 pmKevin’s weasly lament: “You really hate business owners.”
I AM a business owner, lamer. I have 8 employees, 2 of which work at minimum wage, which is already much higher than the federal minimum wage. But, if my state asks me to raise that wage again, I’ll do it and it will have NO effect. You see, I DO live in the real world.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:34 pmKevin may operate with integrity and honesty. That’s great. But Kevin the world doesn’t run that way. People do have to be forced to pay their employees fairly.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:34 pmKevin,
You like good music, but you have been smacked down. I agree the losers don’t deserve it, but not at the expense of the winners. We need the winners to get a leg up man.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:35 pm#61. Gregor Samsa. Okay, I’ve been debunked. France has double the minimum wage of the U.S. and also double the unemployment. If I have been debunked, someone should tell the French, so they can get all those people to work.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:36 pm(In the case of France, 10% unemployment compared to our 4% rate).
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Our unemployment is NOT 4%. That is only the number of people collecting a check from the government.
The Bush Regime altered the counting device to exclude those who were not on the dole…
The real number has been estimated to be closer to 10%.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:36 pm#76–D, you are right..that is the same argument that Bush used to in giving big tax breaks to the rich..exactly the same words..’put money in the hands of people to spend…to stimulate the economy’….if putting money in the hands of the rich stimulates the economy,why money then do not stimulate the economy when given to the poor?!!
January 25th, 2007 at 7:39 pmPaul, Paul Krugman estimates that the true unemployment rate in the U.S. may be as high as 8% today. Since Paul Krugman has proven to be correct about virtually everything he has written, I tend to give lots of weight to his opinion.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:40 pmIf I have been debunked, someone should tell the French, so they can get all those people to work.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
I sneeze a lot at work, therefore I must be allergic to work.
Nevermind that the building is 60 years old and desperately needs to have it’s HVAC system cleaned.
Same logic.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:40 pmunbelievable. Was that information from the Center for American Progress?
January 25th, 2007 at 7:41 pmSomeone wanna find some stress-level related information on the French vs. The United States. I would bet the French have a lower stress level, and less stress-related illness. Even if they are stinky.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:42 pmI’m allergic to work for sure.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:42 pmNow that we have adjusted our unemployment figure to 10%, we only have to adjust France’s rate down to 5% to validate the point that raising the minimum wage improves economies.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:43 pmYou really hate business owners. I would settle for $50,000 per alien. But we still need to close the boarder.
Comment by Kevin — January 25, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
I don’t like when Businesses screw American workers.
And there is no need to close the border.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:44 pmPaul, are you aware of the fact that the French get greater productivity per capita from their workers than we do here? Did you know that the French have a much higher voter turnout, much greater job satisfaction and much greater satisfaction with their government than we have here? Just thought you should know that. I think it’s relevant.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:44 pmI’m allergic to work for sure.
Comment by ForTruth
I avoid work at all costs.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:46 pmWas that information from the Center for American Progress?
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Nope. MIT.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:47 pmWhile the federal government has blocked help for 13 million working Americans (9.8% of the workforce) for a decade, many states have already moved forward with their own minimum wage hikes. And as you might imagine, few of them happened to vote for George W. Bush for president.
For the details, see:
January 25th, 2007 at 7:47 pm“The Minimum Wage in Red and Blue.”
Bluedog49. There is obviously more to economies than labor cost, but it is also obviously a factor. The logic that all you have to do to improve growth is to raise the minimum wage doesn’t really hold true when you consider that both the U.K. and France have minimum wages double that of the U.S. and economies that are less robust. (In the case of France, 10% unemployment compared to our 4% rate).
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
We calculate our unemployment numbers differently than France.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:47 pmJust thought you should know that. I think it’s relevant.
Comment by Bluedog49
I’m pretty sure Paul is not French, even though I can’t smell him from here.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:48 pmPaul: “Now that we have adjusted our unemployment figure to 10%, we only have to adjust France’s rate down to 5% to validate the point that raising the minimum wage improves economies.”
It has already been pointed out that the latest studies show states with higher minimum wage have better economies. Why do you continue to pretend that these facts don’t exist? The stats were published on this very site within the last 3 months.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:48 pmJust got an email from Wayne Schneider.
Jane has pneumonia.
Wayne has a chest infection, it’s probably bronchitis right now.
They wanted everyone to know why they haven’t been around, and to say they should be back next week.
Let’s all send them good thoughts, OK?
Comment by trueblue
Well I see Tps very own busy body secretary is on the prowl again and OFF TOPIC as ususal.
I am so glad katy made the job of moderator instead of the likes of
trueblue - too cliquey and opinionated
unbelievable- too inept and would probably end up the sole remaining poster on the blog because it is all about her we all know
ForTruth- The king of 7 word sentences and self aggrandizing thought.
Spuds McKenzie Boy- The job would probably kill him off with his silly blood pressure.
Great job TP on your new choice for moderator. You could not have made a better selection.
Congratulations katy! You earned it!
January 25th, 2007 at 7:49 pmIf I have been debunked, someone should tell the French, so they can get all those people to work.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
Wha!? You didn’t follow the link I provided, did you? It was a link to a ThinkProgress blog entry about studies done in several states across the US.
If you don’t like the Centre for American Progress because it’s “liberal”, then you can take your pick and decide between Princeton university Press, and the Wisconsin Department of Worforce Development.
No need to import French data. Or as you would call it, “Freedom data”.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:50 pm#78..Paul , In France,the government pays for health of its workers and unemployed benefits much higher than here. I agree with #84…(Unbelievable) that the calculations of unemployed figures do not realistically represent the true picture of unemplyoment..it represents people who receives unemployment checks…
January 25th, 2007 at 7:50 pmI’m allergic to work for sure.
Comment by ForTruth — January 25, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
I’m only allergic to my boss.
I love my students and co-workers.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:50 pmPIGS - ALL OF THEM! They should be ashamed of their level of greed! Maybe they shouldn’t ever get a raise or have their pay reduced instead? It figures that they’re Rethugs, doesn’t it? All swine!
January 25th, 2007 at 7:53 pmI’m allergic to work for sure.
Comment by ForTruth — January 25, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
I’m only allergic to my boss.
I love my students and co-workers.
Comment by unbelievable
Ohh so thats it. No discipline and guidance growing up and now we all have to suffer.
I thought as much
January 25th, 2007 at 7:55 pmNow that we have adjusted our unemployment figure to 10%, we only have to adjust France’s rate down to 5% to validate the point that raising the minimum wage improves economies.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
Classes are less rigid in both France and England. In those countries, if you’re born into poverty you have a better chance of moving up economic ladder than if you lived in the U.S.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:55 pmwe only have to adjust France’s rate down to 5% to validate the point that raising the minimum wage improves economies.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
I didn’t dispute France’s rate, though, if I googled it, I’d bet I’d learn that your number is an exaggeration…
What I don’t understand is how you can tolerate people being paid $5.15 an hour for an honest day’s work. These are the people who then have to turn to the government to get healthcare, which ultimately costs you more because of all the government red tape added to the cost. It would actually cost you less as a tax payer for these people to have enough money in their own hands… Think about it.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:56 pmGregor, I don’t think data means much to Paul or Kevin. Whenever anyone mentions the data, they pretend not to notice.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:59 pmPaul isn’t paid minimum wage, so he could give a flying f*ck for those who are. Kevin, too.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:59 pmRachel is back, venom and all.
January 25th, 2007 at 7:59 pmPlease ignore, everyone.
Just write TP.
They’ve promised to de-troll as soon as they know.
Joanie, I think you forgot to take your meds. Hissss, Meowww!
January 25th, 2007 at 8:00 pmPaul has admitted to being a pilot. They make three-figure salaries after a few years in the profession…
I’m guessing fromhis posts that Kevin is just one of those broom pushers who thinks he will someday be rich, so he defends the system that is raping him.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:02 pm(Bwaaaaaaaaaaa boo hoo hoo hoo)
January 25th, 2007 at 8:02 pmI didn’t make the Jonesing Doe list.
I didn’t make the Jonesing Doe list.
Comment by Raven — January 25, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
Do you also cry when your AIDS tests are negative? ; )
January 25th, 2007 at 8:04 pmBluedog. The argument that just because the information was posted here makes it true, only works for progressives. To think this is an unbiased sight with objective information, is like saying the same thing about the Rush Limbaugh show.
By the way, I love the French. Been to Paris a half dozen times. Beautiful city. The French obviously make different choices than we do. Whether their focus is better than ours, is open to debate. I just thought that conservatives are arguing that a raise in the minimum wage will hurt small business owners and effect their ability to hire or retain some of the very people most on this site are concerned about helping. Obviously, I am no expert. I just think the conservative view on this subject is better for most Americans.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:07 pmHow about this: if Paul is a pilot, how would he feel about his company paying the guys who do safety checks on his plane as little as possible. Just squeeze them. Hey, if they don’t like it, they can go find another job, right Paul?
January 25th, 2007 at 8:08 pmPaul,
One more thing: Making a one-on-one, direct comparison between French minimum wage, unemployment, and their American equivalents is misleading for several reasons.
The first has already been mentioned by other posters: The methodology the French government uses to tally unemployment figures is different to the one the US government employs.
Secondly, you cannot take cold currency figures and put them side by side without taking into consideration the purchasing power in both countries.
Last by not least, if your intention is to compare the two economies, there are other factors to take into consideration such as standard of living, access to health care, poverty rate, and income inequality. By these measures, France is ahead of the US.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:09 pmHey, if they don’t like it, they can go find another job, right Paul?
Comment by Bluedog49 — January 25, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
Touche’!
January 25th, 2007 at 8:11 pmMost of the working poor earn more than the minimum wage, and most of the 0.6 percent (479,000 in 2005) of America’s wage workers earning the minimum wage are not poor. Only one in five workers earning the federal minimum lives in families with earnings below the poverty line. Sixty percent work part time, and their average household income is well over $40,000. (The average and median household incomes are $63,344 and $46,326, respectively.)
Forty percent of American workers are salaried. Of the 75.6 million paid by the hour, 1.9 million earn the federal minimum or less, and of these, more than half are under 25 and more than a quarter are between ages 16 and 19. Many are students or other part-time workers. Sixty percent of those earning the federal minimum or less work in restaurants and bars and earn tips — often untaxed, perhaps — in addition to wages. Two-thirds of those earning the federal minimum today will, a year from now, have been promoted and be earning 10 percent more. Raising the minimum wage predictably makes work more attractive relative to school for some teenagers and raises the dropout rate. Two scholars report that in states that allow people to leave school before 18, a 10 percent increase in the state minimum wage caused teenage school enrollment to drop 2 percent.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 01/ 03/ AR2007010301619.html
January 25th, 2007 at 8:14 pmmuckdog,
Ever ventured out into the real world?
January 25th, 2007 at 8:21 pmEEEwwwwww.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:22 pmI’ll try using the sarc on/off phrase next time.
I just think the conservative view on this subject is better for most Americans.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
And what we keep telling you is that you are wrong -even providing links to make our point. Links you have repeatedly ignored.
It is not true that an increase in the minimum wage will generate job loss, it is not true that it will inevitably lead to inflation, it is not true that it would hurt businesses, etc.
I have heard the same canard since I was a small child. Everytime the minimum wage was up for an increase you’d think the world was coming to an end -the rightwing cried so loud. And everytime, without an exception, nothing happened. The minimum wage was raised, people didn’t lose their jobs.
Not to mention that, in real terms, the minimum wage has actually declined.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:23 pmHow about this: if Paul is a pilot, how would he feel about his company paying the guys who do safety checks on his plane as little as possible. Just squeeze them. Hey, if they don’t like it, they can go find another job, right Paul?
Comment by Bluedog49
This is why I got out of the aviation industry. The payscale is terribly out of sync with the responsibility level. I can make more working on your car than I can by working on a multimillion dollar jet. If your car breaks down who cares, if your plane breaks down, well, you can’t just pull over and call a wrecker.
I am surprised that anyone would want to work in such an insane upside down industry.
BTW I have a tool box for sale, tools included.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:24 pm#116. Bluedog49. I guess you haven’t been paying attention to the Airline industry over the past 5 years. I’m not complaining, but I’ve taken a 50% pay cut over the past two years and the ‘guys doing the safety checks’ have probably taken a similar hit. That is the marketplace. If we provide a service that the marketplace demands, we will survive and prosper. If we don’t, we will have to find other jobs. It is my choice to continue to do what I do. If I feel like I’m not making what I should, I’ll move on. I don’t believe that the government should mandate what my employer will pay me. (By the way, when I worked for a regional, my takehome pay was less than $900 a month after 4 years of college, some graduate school and 5 years of military experience; again I’m not complaining, that was my choice.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:28 pmZep Tepi. Sorry to hear you have left the industry, but I definitely understand why you would. Hope you found something better.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:31 pmZep Tepi. Sorry to hear you have left the industry, but I definitely understand why you would. Hope you found something better.
Comment by paul
Its cool. I sleep much better at nite, and it was a great learning experience.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:35 pm“Almost 300 large and small business owners across the country have signed on to Business for a Fair Minimum Wage”
300? Out of millions? This is what you use to support raising the minimum wage?
“A recent Gallup poll found that “three out of four small businesses said that an increase in the minimum wage would have no effect on their company”
Yes that’s what it says on Kennedy’s website but he doesn’t back it up with any proof.
“Today, some conservative senators tried to go even further by completely abolishing the federal minimum wage”
It should be abolished! Why should a small business in rural Arkansas pay the same amount that a small business in Manhattan pays their workers. The states should decide!
January 25th, 2007 at 8:37 pmGregor Samsa. I can only say that when Bush took office in 2001, there was news coverage of the threat of recession for about the first year or two. (remember, it was after the tech bubble burst and people lost alot in the stock market). The economy was also obviously effected by 9/11. Bush implemented tax cuts and, as many here have pointed out, the minimum wage hasn’t been raised for many, many years. If the economy has been so mismanaged why don’t we see reporting about recession, or at the very least recession fears? If raising the minimum wage improves the economy, wouldn’t restricting the rise in minimum wage, hurt the economy. Most economists (except Krugman) think the economy is performing wonderfully. Besides slanted statistics provided by the Center for American Progess, what am I missing?
January 25th, 2007 at 8:40 pmIt should be abolished! Why should a small business in rural Arkansas pay the same amount that a small business in Manhattan pays their workers. The states should decide!
Comment by michael
Why should a private physician in Arkansas make less than one in Manhattan?
January 25th, 2007 at 8:44 pmFrom Kennedy’s website:
“Productivity has increased by 29 percent since 1997, and corporate profits have increased by 45, yet minimum-wage workers have not received a raise”
Ha, ha, ha! As if a worker who started a job on minimum wage in 1997 was still receiving that same wage today! You libs love twisting facts but unfortunately there are “thinkers” like myself who won’t let you get away with it!
January 25th, 2007 at 8:45 pmIt should be abolished! Why should a small business in rural Arkansas pay the same amount that a small business in Manhattan pays their workers. The states should decide!
Comment by michael
Why I will never pay a lawyer more than min wage ever again cool!!
January 25th, 2007 at 8:45 pm#109. Zooey, come on. You know I care. I just disagree. That’s still okay, right? ;)
January 25th, 2007 at 8:46 pmHa, ha, ha! As if a worker who started a job on minimum wage in 1997 was still receiving that same wage today! You libs love twisting facts but unfortunately there are “thinkers†like myself who won’t let you get away with it!
Comment by michael
So Arkanasas becomes a poverty state?
January 25th, 2007 at 8:53 pm“Why should a private physician in Arkansas make less than one in Manhattan?”
I didn’t say they should. A person should make as much as the market will be willing to compensate them. I’m talking about entry level workers who are just entering the work force. Why should a small store owner in rural Arkansas pay a clerk $7/hr the same as a small store owner in Manhattan?
January 25th, 2007 at 8:54 pmZooey, come on. You know I care. I just disagree. That’s still okay, right? ;)
Comment by paul
Sorry paul, you’re not coming across as very caring.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:54 pmJust sayin’
I don’t believe that the government should mandate what my employer will pay me.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 8:28 pm
One more time: Minimum wage laws don’t “mandate” how much your boss will pay you, but what they cannot pay you. These laws determine your boss cannot pay you below a certain level. Anything above that is fair game. The sky is the limit.
Why, even farmers and growers have price support programs to ensure a minimum price will be payed for their products should market prices fall below that level. That is akin to a corporate minimum wage/welfare plan that we all subsidise.
Why shouldn’t the poor and downtrodden have access to a similar liferaft?
January 25th, 2007 at 8:55 pm“So Arkanasas becomes a poverty state?”
It already is!
January 25th, 2007 at 8:57 pmI didn’t say they should. A person should make as much as the market will be willing to compensate them. I’m talking about entry level workers who are just entering the work force. Why should a small store owner in rural Arkansas pay a clerk $7/hr the same as a small store owner in Manhattan?
Comment by michael
So you are saying that all aircraft mechanics, and pilots should hold you hostage for your hard earned dollars?
January 25th, 2007 at 8:58 pmHey Paul it’s free market time!! Lets make millions off these suckers!!
So Arkanasas becomes a poverty state?â€
It already is!
Comment by michael
So your hard thinking tax dollars solved what exactly?
January 25th, 2007 at 9:00 pmI’m talking about entry level workers who are just entering the work force.
So are you willing to work at Pilgrims Pride for 7$$ an hour?
I mean, we can’t all go to college and be managers now can we?
somebody has to work on the bus so it can make it over the cliff, right?
January 25th, 2007 at 9:02 pmSo your hard thinking tax dollars solved what exactly?
Comment by Zep Tepi
…and the steel-jawed trap clangs shut…
January 25th, 2007 at 9:02 pmSo your hard thinking tax dollars solved what exactly?
Comment by Zep Tepi
…and the steel-jawed trap clangs shut…
Comment by Zooey
Heh =)
January 25th, 2007 at 9:05 pmThe states should decide!
Comment by michael — January 25, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
They already do.
The minimum wage in New York is $7.15hr, while in Arkansas it is $6.25hr.
Here is the link to the US Department of Labor:
http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm
January 25th, 2007 at 9:07 pmSome of these senators are up for re-election in 2008 (Alexander, Sununu, Domenici, Chambliss, Dole). Let’s see these guys explain themselves in a year.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:10 pmThe states should decide!
Comment by michael
Yeah, like Idaho has decided: $5.15 per hour
January 25th, 2007 at 9:10 pmI just contacted my two Senators but I’m not very optimistic. I think they would have listened if I had been urging another tax cut for the rich. We need to clean out some more in 08. The way some of them are acting they will be vulnerable.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:10 pm*
The Conservative Nanny State
How the Wealthy Use the Government to Stay Rich and Get Richer
by Dean Baker, published May 2006
In his new book, economist Dean Baker debunks the myth that conservatives favor the market over government intervention. In fact, conservatives rely on a range of “nanny state†policies that ensure the rich get richer while leaving most Americans worse off. It’s time for the rules to change. Sound economic policy should harness the market in ways that produce desirable social outcomes – decent wages, good jobs and affordable health care.
http://www.conservativenannystate.org/
January 25th, 2007 at 9:19 pm*
*
The Great Wealth Transfer
It’s the biggest untold economic story of our time: more of the nation’s bounty held in fewer and fewer hands. And Bush’s tax cuts are only making the problem worse
http://www.rollingstone.com/ politics/ story/ 12699486/ paul_krugman_on_the_great_wealth_transfer
January 25th, 2007 at 9:21 pm*
I have emailed my senator , the scumbag Kit Bond of MO, twice to ask why he voted against minmum wage raise. So far no reply. He still voted no after the citizens of MO voted for raise in Nov. I told him to grow some balls and vote against the repuglican party line.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:21 pm“So are you willing to work at Pilgrims Pride for 7$$ an hour?”
Me personally? No! But people who begin a job earning the minimum wage don’t continue earning that wage long. As they learn skills and become more valuable to the market their earnings will increase. Come on, this is economics 101!
January 25th, 2007 at 9:23 pm“So you are saying that all aircraft mechanics, and pilots should hold you hostage for your hard earned dollars?”
You really need to try to respond intelligently?
January 25th, 2007 at 9:26 pm“They already do.
The minimum wage in New York is $7.15hr, while in Arkansas it is $6.25hr”
The point I tried to make is that it should NOT be determined by the Federal government.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:27 pmTwo scholars report that in states that allow people to leave school before 18, a 10 percent increase in the state minimum wage caused teenage school enrollment to drop 2 percent.
Comment by muckdog — January 25, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
Two scholars? Sure.
As a high school teacher I can tell you that the high school drop-out rate is a direct result of the fact that high school is largely irrelevent, boring and a large waste of time. It’s mostly a regurgitation of what the students already learned in middle school, and does nothing to prepare them for life.
If there’s any correlation between minimum wage rise and the drop-out rate, it is the fact that high school in this country is such a waste of time that an additional 50 cents an hour will entice a 16 year old to leave…
January 25th, 2007 at 9:28 pmPaul - why’d you ignore my post about the indirect costs of keeping the minimum wage at poverty level?
January 25th, 2007 at 9:29 pmYeah, like Idaho has decided: $5.15 per hour
Comment by Zooey
Talk about traps.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:30 pmPaul don’t ignore the post.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:31 pmPaul don’t ignore the post.
Comment by ForTruth — January 25, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
That’ll work ; )
January 25th, 2007 at 9:34 pmThe point I tried to make is that it should NOT be determined by the Federal government.
Comment by michael
I understand. Most states do pay above min wage, but we should be very careful before we tread these exploitative waters (my opinion) =)
January 25th, 2007 at 9:35 pmTalk about traps.
Comment by Zep Tepi
No kidding. It’s a painful sight — $10,712 per year.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:39 pmSorry,
Give me the post number. Bath time and book reading time and my wife is going to want to talk. I’ll look at it and try to reply when I can. Damn life responsibilities interferring with my time on the internet. :)
January 25th, 2007 at 9:42 pm#77 Unbelievable
I used to live in a house that provided a room and meals. They called me something other than Clyde.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:44 pmI used to live in a house that provided a room and meals. They called me something other than Clyde.
Comment by Clyde the Ripper
Let me guess — a boarder. :)
January 25th, 2007 at 9:46 pmZooey,
I was trying to be nice.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:50 pmLet’s see…
The Republicans in the 109th Congress tied a cut in the estate tax to their efforts last year to raise the minimum wage.
The Democrats promised to pass a clean minimum wage bill if elected.
We know who lost in the elections.
So what do the losers try to do now? Support a min. wage raise only if tax breaks are attached. Seems the public wants a clean bill. This is the Repubs big “f*ck you” to the American voters.
And this from an earlier ThinkFast, 11/3/06:
Come on, Kevin. Prove to us that this information is wrong. Prove that TP’s debunking of the 2 myths posted above are wrong. Read somewhere that after the min. wage was last raised under the Clinton administration, job growth went up, not down.
You are a tool. You’ve done nothing to support your position that having a minimum wage is bad; talking out of your ass doesn’t count. We want links. We want sources cited. You obviously don’t care about being a credible contributor to this forum.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:51 pmmy wife is going to want to talk.
Comment by paul — January 25, 2007 @ 9:42 pm
Wife?
Then what was with asking Raven if he/she