179:
By on Jan 26th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
179:
Number of amendments offered by conservatives to the minimum wage bill, including multiple amendments to abolish the federal minimum wage. In a dramatic floor speech (go to 4:30), Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA) said today that conservative senators appear to be waging a “filibuster by amendment.” The next vote on the bill will be on Tuesday. (Show your support for a minimum wage increase here.)
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Biting correct!
January 26th, 2007 at 7:25 pmFillibuster by amendment is another means to hold up and obstruct serious consideration of bill introduction. Wasn’t it a short time ago Repubs were going to make it virtually impossible for Dems to fillibuster measures that they (Repubs) were wanting to push? They have short memory spans, don’t they- and such hypocritical ethic.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:26 pmI believe that Republicans are resisting to raising the minimum wage without some tax relief for small businesses, because the are concerned that hindering small businesses ability to hire or retain lower paid workers will hurt the very ones that progressives like Kennedy believe they are trying to help.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:29 pm“What IS IT about raising the minimum wage 2.15 that drives you Republicans crazy?”
Sen Kennedy, you ‘da man!
(only time I’m happy to say I live in the same town as the man.)
January 26th, 2007 at 7:31 pmDid anyone propose any legislation to restore slavery?
How about an ammendment to cut Congress’ pay?
Check out my award winning short about economic injustice. It’s called “The Center for Downward Mobility”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XmOPHEL_3Q
January 26th, 2007 at 7:33 pmpaul,
businesses have had tax breaks up the wazoo for the past ten years.
It’s time to bring these poor people up to a not-so-liveable wage, as opposed to the horrific wage they make now.
Let’s see you live off min wage for one month.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:34 pmOne month. You’d be screaming for an increase.
Paul, you know damn good and well that this “hurts small businessess” argument is a red herring. The minimum wage has been raised scores of times and it has never hurt small business growth or profit. Do you really think repubs in congress are looking out for small businesses? Please. The greatest single thing that could happen for small businesses would be a national single-payer health plan. You give me a single-payer plan and I can give every one of my 8 employees a raise on the spot.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:38 pmWasn’t it a short time ago Repubs were going to make it virtually impossible for Dems to fillibuster measures that they (Repubs) were wanting to push?
Those were for judicial filibusters only.
Fillibuster by amendment is another means to hold up and obstruct serious consideration of bill introduction
Not according to John Kerry. It’s a “right an responsibility to oppose [Sam Alito] and to fight” by filibustering his nomination. Perhaps he does not recognize that same right and responsibility of debate these days. But he is the sole arbiter of truth and righteousness, my bad.
Not everything is so one-sided as you may think. Democrats strenuously opposing filibusters may have come back to bite them in the ass. Both sides had a horse in this race, and to act like it’s so one-sided is ridiculous. Vice versa, and ditto for Repubs.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:41 pmKennedy talks like if Republican’s won’t agree to a hike in the minimum wage, they are condemning people to making $5.15 for the rest of their lives. Are Republican’s somehow restricting people from getting the skills and experience to find a better paying job? If you listen to Kennedy, you might think so. I believe that the minimum wage is generally paid to entry level positions filled mostly by students and younger people. Not generally, for people that are supporting families. I could be wrong on this and am willing to those of you that have a different opinion.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:42 pmI’m amazed that republicans keep hammering more nails into their coffin. Telling voters that they are voting against a Democratic sponsored bill because Democrats hate America and it will only end up helping terrorists doesn’t work anymore.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:46 pmIt’s one thing to filibuster a judicial nomination when you know a huge majority of Americans don’t want this kind of guy on the court. It’s another to filibuster legislation knowing full well that the vast majority of Americans want the legislation. One filibuster is in behalf of the people – the other is giving the people the middle finger. And, if you don’t think our reps should be thinking about what the people want, you have very little faith in our system of government. Our reps are supposed to represent our values.
In two years, 21 repub senators and 9 Dem senators will be up for reelection. By arrogantly disregarding the wants of the electorate, Repubs are sealing their fate. If the electorate is still as mad at them as they were in 2006, we’re going to see a veto and filibuster proof Senate for a long time.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:47 pmSmall business owners are constituents of the Republican party. Combined they are a huge part of our economy. Small business owners believe that raising the minimum wage will make it more difficult for them to be profitable. I believe that Republicans want to support Small business owners and also feel that if small business owners are effected negatively by the raise in wages, that the economy would also suffer. But I have to give you alot of deference. I don’t own a small business. I am interested in your situation. What impact would raising the minimum wage to $7.25 have on your situation?
January 26th, 2007 at 7:48 pm#9…Paul, you have been called on this many times by people citing government statistics that state that students and younger people make up a very small percentage of people making minimum wage. And why do think students and younger people shouldn’t make a decent wage? Give it up.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:48 pmPaul, you just keep adhereing to your Cato Institute dogma. I’m sure your repub friends in the Senate will too. In a couple years, we’ll see the result of giving the electorate the middle finger.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:49 pmted kennedy is one of the best things about this country.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:50 pmThe minimum wage affects only large corporations (Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc…) and not so much from it being a paid wage but more from the standpoint that it is the basis from which wage calculations are done (ie; after 10 years of employment your wage is minimum wage+10).
No small business pays minumum wage or utilizes it for their wage calculations.
Gee, I wonder what happens when a society exploits its labor force? If only history could give us some insight.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:52 pmrob. you make a good point. Kennedy seems frustrated (understatement) by being challenged by Republicans. What did he think was going to happen. To be honest, I’m less and less disappointed with the Democratic victory in November. First, Pelosi is much better looking that Hastert and secondly, maybe the best government is less government. Perhaps bickering politicians will spend less money.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:54 pmPaul… if you only “believe” that, why don’t you research and find out for sure? As I can tell you… minimum wage workers have NOT chosen those paying jobs. They come from poor families that couldn’t afford to send them to better schools. They come from areas all but ignored by people who could actually help them.
No one WANTS to work hard for the least amount of money possible.
So to answer your question, “re Republican’s somehow restricting people from getting the skills and experience to find a better paying job?” Well, let’s look at Katrina. Republicans haven’t done a thing to help rebuild the cities. What are the working people of the city supposed to do now? Owners of business can’t just hop into a high paying job somewhere else. There are people that have to start all over again.
And as or #8, rob…. filibustering someone who is not right for the job is not the same as filibustering a bill by putting in amendments that have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! IF the Republicans oppose the bill, they should speak out about it, debate it. Not throw in crap amendments simply because they personally have some sort of hatred towards minimum wage workers.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:55 pmBS on the hurting small business garbage. I heard someone on talk radio remark that if you own a small business and are not able to survive unless you pay slave wages, you don’t have a strong business anyway–and I have to agree.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:55 pmWhat I’d like to see is a published list of these amendments, and the names of the Senators responsible. This is sick.
Ted Kennedy ROCKS!
In my area, the minimum wage was raised to about that level some time ago. I have two workers on minimum wage. It had no effect on our business. And, I must tell you. The idea that repubs support small business has never had much to do with reality. Repubs (and many Dems) support large corporations, period.
The Chamber of Commerce certainly doesn’t support small businesses either. It’s a front organization for large corporate power. I could go on and on, Paul. But, as I said before, the best possible thing that could happen to small businesses in America would be single-payer universal healthcare and repubs aren’t about to get behind that.
January 26th, 2007 at 7:57 pmDrunk murderers?
January 26th, 2007 at 7:58 pmMake no mistake about it, if the Republicans continue their hellbent effort, as of 5:25 EST(or is it EDT?) the GOP stands for GREEDY OPPORTUNIST POLITICIANS. Well, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I say get the greedy bastards who shit upon our bodypolik with such disdain for the underdog. Such unAmerican sentiment these GOPs project, so I say we should reject them as soon as we can! -Kevo
January 26th, 2007 at 7:58 pm20. Bluedog. Thanks. I am also curious. I have the impression that most small business owners are republican. It that is not the case, my impression is wrong. If it is the case, why would small business owners (who are a huge part of economy) support republicans, if republicans don’t support them? Are you the exception or the rule?
January 26th, 2007 at 8:03 pmKennedy, I’m behind you, and nearly every other American is behind you. Your words in the above speech are to be commended and reprinted, and distributed to all Americans so they know what is happening.
You have a franking privilege – use it! Send out letters, let people know why their wages aren’t going up. It isn’t because your majority doesn’t want it – it’s the whiny republican minority that doesn’t want it.
Tell them all, Mr. Kennedy.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:06 pmDrunk murderers?
Comment by fred — January 26, 2007 @ 7:58 pm
No, that would be Bush.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:11 pmPaul, it depends on the area of the country. Where I live, it’s about 50-50 with business owners and mostly democrat among the general population. I think you are correct in your perceptions though. My own opinion is that many, many americans support politicians and movements which are not really in their own best interests. And, I suspect you are right that in most areas, most business owners are republicans. Gotta go. Have a good weekend!
January 26th, 2007 at 8:11 pmThey could alter the matching rate, I suppose, and allow the employee to make more without harming small business and at the same time benefitting the community perhaps.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:12 pmHere is a painfully simplistic example, but it reflects my concern about raising the minimum wage.
Let’s say you pay your sitter $5.15 per hour. You go to dinner and a movie and it takes 5 hours. You get home and pay the sitter $25.75.
Now let’s say the government mandates you pay $7.25 per hour. The same 5 hours now costs you $36.25.
At some point, does the cost of the sitter influence your decision to either go out at all or at least go out less often.
If it does, doesn’t that have implications for the sitter and even broader implications for the economy?
I believe it does.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:14 pmAre Republican’s somehow restricting people from getting the skills and experience to find a better paying job?
If you’re working yourself to death on 2 or more minimum wage jobs, exactly when are you supposed to go to the job fair? What kind of skills might they be getting on a minimum wage job? How are you supposed to pay for school are training for a better job?
If you listen to Kennedy, you might think so. I believe that the minimum wage is generally paid to entry level positions filled mostly by students and younger people. Not generally, for people that are supporting families. I could be wrong on this and am willing to those of you that have a different opinion.
Comment by paul
Listen paul, I live in Idaho, and the minimum wage here is $5.15 per hour. Employers, especially those in the smaller towns, don’t pay any more than that. If you want a raise, hit the road. I see families trying to survive on the jobs they can get where they live. It’s heartbreaking.
No way on earth are those employers going to raise the amount they pay unless they are made to do it. Tax breaks for small businesses? It’s called — take half the cash out of the till before closing out at the end of the day.
Try living in the real world.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:14 pmI dont think abolishing the federal min wage is a solution however because those states that create a low min wage would see people moving to higher wage states. I know I would.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:15 pm20. Bluedog. Thanks. I am also curious. I have the impression that most small business owners are republican. It that is not the case, my impression is wrong. If it is the case, why would small business owners (who are a huge part of economy) support republicans, if republicans don’t support them? Are you the exception or the rule?
Comment by paul — January 26, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Small businesses are being wiped out by conservative economics. I doubt small business owners support republicans.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:15 pmZep,
I live in Washington State, it has a minimum wage of $7.25 I think next door Idaho is still on the federal minimum. The border towns have trouble finding workers, because people who live in Idaho are more then willing to drive a little farther for the extra $2.00.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:17 pmI believe it =)
January 26th, 2007 at 8:22 pm… w o w … …that was powerful…
more like that, dems… lots more…
January 26th, 2007 at 8:25 pmKrazny,
I live in a border town now, and the some of the businesses here are paying the WA minimum wage, simply so they will get the workers. Not so in the smaller towns. They don’t have to, do they?
January 26th, 2007 at 8:26 pmPaul, not all small business owners are republicans. Far from it. Tax breaks and a low minimum wage are not the best answers for growing businesses and healthy economies. Affordable health care, education, sustainable business practices and a genuine concern for futhering the conditions of the bottom half are far more important.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:26 pmIf you raise the minimum wage, you have a reason to pay more to all the illegals you hire. It’s that simple. Repugs want to keep wages low, so the profit margins of their right-wing small business base stay fat–when one hires illegals, one does not have to pay FICA, workers comp insurance, etc. Undocumented workers who get paid pennies “under the table” are what they’re trying to protect. They’re used to fat profits on the backs of illegals. Call a spade a spade, people.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:28 pmpaul,
let’s take your babysitter example.
10 years ago, she had no problem driving the 20 miles to get to your house to mind Jr. Heck, gas was $1./gal.
She even brought snacks for Jr.
10 years later. You’re still paying her the same. Gas is $2.40/gal. Price of food has gone up. Her rent has skyrocketed.
She’s the one who wouldn’t take your job anymore.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:28 pmBut what if you, the parent, got a raise from 5.15 to 7.25?
January 26th, 2007 at 8:28 pmThe video finally finished downloading and I watched it.
katy is right, it was quite powerful. I’ve never seen Ted Kennedy so impassioned — or shouting like that! Good for him. The Repubs ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Raise the f*cking wage.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:29 pmtesting
January 26th, 2007 at 8:30 pmSmall business owners believe that raising the minimum wage will make it more difficult for them to be profitable.
Comment by paul — January 26, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
We already went over this in yesterday’s thread: 75% of small business owners do not think a hike in the minimum wage will hurt their business.
You seem to have selective memory.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:30 pmOy prick — Jason.
Shut your stupid pie hole, and get on topic. Ya got nothin’.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:31 pmComment by Jason M. Hendler — January 26, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
As I stated on a previous thread,
It’s Think Progress’ own Dwight Shrute!
Please, feel free to refer to him as such every time you see him here.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:31 pmOk, I never paid a babysitter in my life, since I traded sitting with other moms.
Question: Babysitters get $5.15 per hour?
January 26th, 2007 at 8:36 pmSo lets talk about MAF. He attacked those pages because they were easy and he was hard. Those child predators on TV get thrown to the ground and jailed. Why didn’t MAF?
January 26th, 2007 at 8:37 pmJMH you are sick. Ruining threads again, bushbot? Yeah. This is about the federal minimum wage, not Ted Kennedy and a 40 year old story.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:39 pm#48, Zep,
As far as we know, Foley never touched any under age boys/young men, just passed sexually inappropriate notes.
The Kennedy’s, who were later emulated by Bubba Clinton, are well known for groping and attacking women. Chris Dodd and Ted Kennedy even sandwiched a waitress – picture that.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:41 pmQuestion: Babysitters get $5.15 per hour?
Comment by Zooey — January 26, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
yep… most are young high schoolers… minimum $5 per kid…
most offer a break for second and more kids…
so, that’s great money, considering it is “tax exempt”…
and that was 10 years ago…
January 26th, 2007 at 8:42 pm#39. trueblue. exactly. It would be the babysitter’s choice to not take the job, but at least she has the opportunity to refuse it. If you allow the marketplace to work, I have more choice to employ the babysitter and the babysitter has the choice to work for me or not. If you mandate that choice away, we both lose.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:43 pmhey, spudge… if you put it that way…
January 26th, 2007 at 8:44 pmkinda shames the pricks, don’t it…
#50, freebird,
Ted Kennedy is in the image in the video clip above, n’est pas? Ted Kennedy was responsible for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, with the only question being, was she dead before or after Ted put the car in the water?
But that is all OK as long as he acts indignant about the minimum wage in front of the cameras.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:45 pmNor did the predators on teebee. Just chatting online to someone who wasn’t even a child.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:46 pm#53, Paul,
… that makes way too much sense for a liberal to accept …
… that sort of thing makes them angry …
January 26th, 2007 at 8:46 pmSpudge_Boy,
January 26th, 2007 at 8:46 pmThat’d be giving them $1.10 increase per year.
Just tossing the person ONE dollar more a year.
I believe it does.
Comment by paul — January 26, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
One thing is belief and it’s different from reality.
We also went over this in yesterday’s thread.
Oregon’s economy was not harmed by the increase in its minimum wage.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:49 pmOh, plus what Spudge_Boy said…
January 26th, 2007 at 8:50 pmso, that’s great money, considering it is “tax exemptâ€â€¦
and that was 10 years ago…
Comment by katy
I had no idea. Of course, if they do a good job with your kids, that’s great. But if they’re a babysitter like I was a babysitter — the kids are doomed. :)
January 26th, 2007 at 8:50 pmpaul,
you don’t understand.
Prices go up. Cost of living goes up.
You cannot expect to pay anyone what you paid 10 years ago. Whether it’s to the same person or a different person. It’s not doable.
Let’s see you live off of what you made 10 years ago.
My first full time job was ~ $5.00/hr. That was Sept. of 1984.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:50 pmI think maybe you want to be a waitress.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:53 pmLet’s say you pay your sitter $5.15 per hour. You go to dinner and a movie and it takes 5 hours.
People making $ 5.15 per hour shouldn`t be able to afford to go out to dinner and a movie anyway you asswipe. They should be concerned about OTHER things to pay first.
Your whole strawman argument just went up in flames!
And I supplied the gasoline and a match.
Next!
January 26th, 2007 at 8:54 pmWe’re wasting our time here.
Paul is King Yeah But.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:55 pmthat makes way too much sense for a liberal to accept …
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — January 26, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
Mr. “Standford is Ivy League” Hendler, you are not even remotely qualified to determine what makes sense and what doesn’t.
I still haven’t forgotten your prattle about the “massive” Asian immigration to East Africa, and how Indians and Chinese would soon displace Africans in those countries -a hypothesis so absolutely out of touch with reality, it is bizarre you would even devote time to it.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:56 pmCaption should read:
(hiccup) If Mary Jo Kopechne (hiccup), were a better swimmer, (hiccup) she confirm what my dear brother Jack once said …
“I didn’t attack those women, because they were easy – I attacked them, because I was hard.â€
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — January 26, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
If the people of New Orleans were better swimmer it wouldn’t have matter that Bush stayed in vacation while New Orleans was facing cataclysmic damage.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:57 pmSpudge_Boy. If you don’t mind a middle aged republican man watching you kids, call me up the next time you need a night out. $50 would operate my Honduran sweetshop for a week! (of course, it’s a joke.) Gotta go. Peace and Love, my progressive friends.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:58 pmYour whole strawman argument just went up in flames!
And I supplied the gasoline and a match.
Next!
Comment by Joanie Doe
sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the 5.15/hr is what somone would pay the sitter so they could go out to the movies.
January 26th, 2007 at 8:59 pmReading Comprehension is a good thing.
Bye, King Yeah But
January 26th, 2007 at 8:59 pm#39. trueblue. exactly. It would be the babysitter’s choice to not take the job, but at least she has the opportunity to refuse it. If you allow the marketplace to work, I have more choice to employ the babysitter and the babysitter has the choice to work for me or not. If you mandate that choice away, we both lose.
Comment by paul — January 26, 2007 @ 8:43 pm
You’re arguing for slave labor.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:00 pmOT — Rove and Bartlet are being subpoenaed by the defense. Rove will be in a tricky position — plus they are then subject to cross examination.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:01 pm#67, Gregor,
I spoke with an Indian expatriot of Kenya who confirmed those trends, and even debated the point on a conservative site with an African who also confirmed those trends. Now, the numbers probably won’t be significant for 20 years or more, but once it tips, it’s over. I truly believe that we will see exhibits of tribal African culture alongside the Neanderthal in our natural science museums in a couple hundred years.
#68, Nat,
so true, so true …
see my point above …
January 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmI would pay the babysitter fairly. People like Jason here would hire an illegal alien (like many have) and then be proud of how they screwed someone out of a few measly bucks for their own benefit.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmI just watched the video of Sen Kennedy. all I can say is WOW!!! Thats why I still to this day have so much respect for the man. Tells it like it is and with genuine heart and Passion. Give ‘em hell Ted!! Keep it up!!
January 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmLOL, Spudge.
If I wasn’t on the other side of the country, I’d do it just because you are so darned nice.
(Everyone: 3, 2, 1, “Awwwwwwww!”)
January 26th, 2007 at 9:05 pm;)
A little data for the discussion:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/August/MinimumWage.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/18/magazines/fsb/whos_afraid_minimumwage.fsb/index.htm
January 26th, 2007 at 9:06 pm#68, Nat,
so true, so true …
see my point above …
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — January 26, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
You had no point; I did.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:12 pm#76, Zep,
Let me be perfectly clear, because you don’t know me, you POS. Every direct report employee that I’ve had, have received generous raises and promotions, because of the training, advice and opportunities that I’ve provided for them. They EARNED them, because they followed through on the training, advice and opportunities – nothing was given. After a brief period of minimal overtime to right the ship, my employees and subcontractors SELDOM had to work overtime to succeed. Moreover, all were well paid.
You can try to generalize about Republicans all you want, but you can’t legitimately say those kinds of things about me.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:12 pmWow. People who make 5.15 an hour should suffer eternally because they make 5.15 an hour? Not very compassionate of you.
BTW Jason, aren’t you a compassionate conservative?
That makes far too much sense for a compassionate conservative to accept.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:13 pm#81, spudge,
You are right, the tribal African cultures will probably be reduced to reservations, as they were in the United States. (If you go to the reservations, they shop at walmart and live in homes or trailers, not teepees, so, in a sense, to see native American tribal culture, you have to go to a museum of natural history as well.)
January 26th, 2007 at 9:15 pmYour joking right? Thats all you do is generalize and group by association. I didn’t say it was legitimate but it is odd how you hate to be generalized while generalizing others. I do what you do and you get all bent out of shape. Why is that?
I’m glad to here that you ‘train’ others. But you still need to drop that holier than thou crap. You have not taught me a thing and I OWE you nothing, don’t act like I do.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:18 pmI got your goat huh JMH?
Me a stupid little mechanic =)
January 26th, 2007 at 9:19 pmYou can try to generalize about Republicans all you want, but you can’t legitimately say those kinds of things about me.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Nanner nanner boo boo.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:20 pm#87, Spudge,
I too have native American blood in my veins, so don’t get on your high horse. Most native Americans do NOT live the way their tribes did 500 years ago when explorers came to North America from Europe. They may spend a weekend or more re-enacting those traditions, but most don’t sustain themselves that way.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:26 pmEleven god damn dollars? What the fu*k is wrong with you cheap mother fu*kers. Most republicans are rich or think they are or want to be rich.
I do not consider myself rich at all and I would pay somebody $50 if they were to watch my kid for 5 friggin hours. You cheap bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Absolutely! The more liberal leaning people I know and I often say this about the repubicans we know… they got plenty of money and they will treat a waitress like trash and then tip her a buck…. and then wait for a thank you…. christ….
I tip my pizza delivery people at least 10 dollars. They thought I was crazy at first (now they always bring extra stuff and are extra nice) …. I had to explain to them I am no longer a church person but I still believe there is something important about being generous ESPECIALLY at my own expense. I can handle putting out an extra 20 bucks a month for some poor bastard that has to deliver me my pizza. And no, most are not kids either.
Vain and greedy…what a society.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:29 pmand then be proud of how they screwed someone out of a few measly bucks for their own benefit.
Comment by Zep Tepi — January 26, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
reminds of that pizza hut commercial… annoys the hell outta me…
January 26th, 2007 at 9:32 pm“honey, i screwed the pizza guy!”
JMH (aka Dwight from “The Office”) isn’t worth it.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:34 pmHe’s just a grandiose narcissist.
Not worth our time or energy.
… You are a racist jerk, religious and an elitist a$$hole.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — January 26, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
don’t forget mysoginistic and chauvenistic…
January 26th, 2007 at 9:36 pmkopechne…..ugh.
when wingnuts do it it’s an tragic accident, when dems do it it’s murder.
Shut off the Limbaugh/hannity brainwash and come back to reality you trolly creep.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:36 pmYour whole strawman argument just went up in flames!
And I supplied the gasoline and a match.
Next!
Comment by Joanie Doe
sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the 5.15/hr is what somone would pay the sitter so they could go out to the movies.
Reading Comprehension is a good thing.
Comment by trueblue
>
January 26th, 2007 at 9:36 pm#94, spudge,
… so I take it that you are agreeing with me, that the Chinese / Indian / (also add muslim in the north) “Manifest Destiny” in Africa will eliminate the tribal African cultures, and similarly reduce their numbers and drive the few remaining onto reservations …
… when you listen and think, you learn …
January 26th, 2007 at 9:38 pmGerald,
You remind me of those Jesus chastized for making a big show of their “charity”, while a poor woman gave all she had.
TRUE charity is a private personal mission, not something you hold up for everyone to see.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:43 pmTwo of the most wealthy and influential families in America are the Bush and Kennedy families. They rival one another.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:45 pmJust note the charitable work for America that has been done with some of the Kennedy fortune, and the impassioned words backed up by hard work for the welfare of all Americans.
Then note what has been wrought for the general good with the Bush fortunes if you can find anything. Their fortune is for them, andtheir interests only.
Even the “generous” gift of $50,000 to New Orleans schools from Barbara Bush was given with the caveat that the money MUST be used solely to purchase son, Neal’s, computer program. This to schools that had been wiped out — generous, no?
Joanie that was, all in all, pretty lame.
How old are you anyway?
I get the feeling that you are a teenage girl who has never worked.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:46 pmDude scroll back and read your previous screed
January 26th, 2007 at 9:49 pm#107, Marie,
The Bush family chooses to teach people to fish, and create an environment in which they will succeed. The Kennedy’s give out fish, making people dependent upon their fish, while getting their picture taken (and groping / assaulting women).
Who, then, is more charitable?
January 26th, 2007 at 9:49 pmIf people are paid more they spend more thus bettering the economy for all. Rich folks do not spend more when they are given excessive tax breaks. They are not waiting and saving to buy a refrigerator, washer, dryer, car, etc. Rich folks can buy whenever they want something. Raising the minimum wage boosts the economy. Repugs are worried they may have to pay their illegal help more , too.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:50 pm#107- Yes- you’re right. Also, that same computer software business run/owned by George’s brother was financed by a Dubai company- Saudi money. They (the familes) have been in bed together for a long, long time.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:50 pmWho, then, is more charitable?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Neither one sir for they both have hidden motives.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:53 pmlet’s not forget Prescott Bush……
January 26th, 2007 at 9:55 pmI meant #106- DUH! I need to go to bed!
January 26th, 2007 at 9:55 pmGerald,
You remind me of those Jesus chastized for making a big show of their “charityâ€, while a poor woman gave all she had.
TRUE charity is a private personal mission, not something you hold up for everyone to see.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
This isnt a private forum now is it?
And a preacher doesnt keep his opinions private either now does he?
Did Jesus keep his opinions to himself?! No he refused to shut his mouth until they ended him.
I hope you republicans remember that and feel guilty for your unjust ways and change. And those that are normally not like the republicans but still complacent to think about those others around you that normally go unnoticed. I am not rich. There is no bragging. Lead by example. Not by propaganda and deceit. If anything bad really does happen to our country or to our world we will all be forced to learn that lesson…. it shouldnt take something like that for people to take action. I am normally an ass … I am sure no feely touchy hugger… but if you cant stand up for those that are less fortunate you are just a petty animal.
January 26th, 2007 at 9:58 pmSometimes the filter fairy deletes posts and the numerical order changes.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:05 pmSpudge_Boy,
He has Asperger’s, remember?
January 26th, 2007 at 10:09 pmHe doesn’t really feel anything for anyone else.
Jason I am curious as to your type of work. if I recall it was to do with IT?
January 26th, 2007 at 10:09 pmSpudge,
Jason “suspends his christianity” when it’s convenient for him.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:09 pmThose are his own words.
The Bush family chooses to teach people to fish, and create an environment in which they will succeed.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — January 26, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
Everyone would starve to death if we had to rely on them.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:12 pm#107, Marie,
The Bush family chooses to teach people to fish, and create an environment in which they will succeed. The Kennedy’s give out fish, making people dependent upon their fish, while getting their picture taken (and groping / assaulting women).
Who, then, is more charitable?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — January 26, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
Isn’t that just the steamiest pile of sh*t dropped on
January 26th, 2007 at 10:14 pmthese threads in a while. Way to go Hendler. You’re the champion.
HEY!!! Get with the program!!! Don’t you realize that, except for working at WalMart and fast food chains, the rest of your “jobs” can be sent overseas???
Why should CORPORATIONS pay any more than they have to for LABOR? Their SOLE PURPOSE is to PAY DIVIDENDS to their SHAREHOLDERS. If they can turn a GREATER PROFIT by shipping jobs overseas, THAT IS THEIR DUTY TO THEIR SHAREHOLDERS!!!
Minimum wage? You’re competing with sweatshops in China!!! The more FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS we get, the GREATER THE PROFITS!!!
So, all you COLLEGE GRADUATES out there…those of you who survive NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND and can still think….you have to compete with THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES for a job…AND THEY DON’T PAY MINIMUM WAGE!!!
January 26th, 2007 at 10:16 pmHe has Asperger’s, remember?
He doesn’t really feel anything for anyone else.
Comment by trueblue
That’s not really true of Aspergers. People with Aspergers are perceived as more “eccentric” than anything else. Here’s a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
January 26th, 2007 at 10:17 pmThe Bush family chooses to teach people to fish, and create an environment in which they will succeed.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — January 26, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
OH COME ON!!! Bush doesn’t waste time teaching people how to fish!!! HE JUST TOSSES FISH to those who already know how to catch them!!!
January 26th, 2007 at 10:20 pmoops.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:21 pmSorry, Zooey.
“little professors” is how children with Asperger’s are sometimes described.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:26 pmJust looked it up.
Sorry to Jason and anyone else I may have offended.
No worries, true.
Jason is a prick because he likes it that way — not because of his Aspergers.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:28 pmThe Bush family chooses to teach people to fish, and create an environment in which they will succeed. The Kennedy’s give out fish, making people dependent upon their fish, while getting their picture taken (and groping / assaulting women).
Who, then, is more charitable?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Oh man that’s a good one. Jason would you like to grope a woman?
January 26th, 2007 at 10:29 pmWhy should they pay you for your labor when they can hire someone cheaper?
January 26th, 2007 at 10:32 pmA point that throws out all neocon/conservative arguments against minimum wage is inflation. Costs change and thus prices overall increase. Therefore no matter what kind of business, small or huge corporation, will raise prices to keep up with inflation and thus still be able to make a profit. Not raising minimum does not raise that profit margin, why? because if people cannot afford something, why would they buy it? Thus, raising minimum wage not only helps those who earn minimum wage, but all businesses since consumers have more money to spend.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:34 pmWe Are Liberal
Tune: I Feel Pretty by Leonard Bernstein & Stephen Sondheim
We are liberal, oh so liberal
So we don’t know what’s right from what’s wrong
With our protests keep America from being strong la la la la la la la la la la
We are whiners and complainers
And we just hate our country it’s true
Raise our children
To grow up and hate their country too nye nye nye nye nye nye nye nye nye nye nye nye nye
If you’ve got a solid marriage husband and wife
We’ll destroy it if we can run for your life
Every woman must be with a
Woman every man must be
With a man
Yes we have a
Big agenda
That will crumble our society
In this land of the brave and this home of the free
Anne Coulter, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh
With their balanced reporting of facts
Will give you the low-down on liberals
Both our wimpiness and our unspeakable acts.
We think we want accountability
But we just hate freedom, obviously.
We think we want truth and integrity
But we’re all just nuts for conspiracy.
Keep away from us. You should all run.
We are dangerous to your children.
We’ll give them facts about condoms and sex
So clearly our minds should be rated “x”
I am liberal, oh so liberal
So the media is biased towards me
They loved Clinton
But poor Bush they will not let him be wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah
I love foreigners
I love immigrants
I love anyone not Christian or white
But our country we refuse to see is always right La La La La La La La La La La La La La
With our liberal philosophy what can it be?
Trying to protect the poor goodness what for?
And the bill of rights
Trying to unite
Trying not to fight a worthless war
It is clear we
January 26th, 2007 at 10:36 pmAre extremists
And a threat to your security
In this land of the brave and this home of the free.
Canada compensates man U.S. deported to Syria
THANK GOODNESS OUR country hasn’t paid this man a DIME!!! He’s still on the TERRORIST WATCH LIST. And well she should be…HE KNOWS TOO MUCH!!! He knows how AMERICA sends people off to BLACK SITES around the world!!! HE SHOULD BE SILENCED before he gets a chance to go public and expose exactly how INEFFECTIVE our ANTI-TERRORIST MEASURES really are!!!
Thank BUSH and CHENEY that CORPORATE MEDIA aren’t reporting more on this guy’s story…it could undermine the whole ANTI-TERROR EFFORT!!!
January 26th, 2007 at 10:38 pm(think Lawrence Welk)
“Tank you, Joanie, A-Tank you. Now, Myron Floren…”
January 26th, 2007 at 10:41 pmI spoke with an Indian expatriot of Kenya who confirmed those trends, and even debated the point on a conservative site with an African who also confirmed those trends.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — January 26, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
You spoke with two people who agreed with you and that for you is a confirmation of a continental trend!? But then, you are the man who thought you were a climate expert after watching a documentary on the Discovery Channel.
You are delusional, and well beyond help.
For the benefit of other posters, the number of Chinese in Africa and the MiddleEast is roughly 0.2% -that is statistically insignificant.
The country with the largest Chinese and Indian minorities in Africa is South Africa and they only make up about 2% of its total population. The other East African countries have 1% or less.
Moreover, not only are these insignificant and do not constitute evidence of a demographic replacement, they have been at that level for at least a decade -bucking the notion that it is a growing trend, as Mr. Hendler so delusionally asserts.
Now, the numbers probably won’t be significant for 20 years or more, but once it tips, it’s over.
Once more, for the benefit of other posters:
The numbers do not add up. A small group that is 2% of the total population cannot balloon to be over 50% by simple demographic growth in two decades. I know Mr. Hendler thinks women should be barefoot and pregnant, but not even in his wildest meth-fueled scenario that is a remote possibility.
And, as I already said, the migration from Asian countries to East Africa at its current levels is not enough to cause a demographic replacement. It would need to be a massive migration -by the millions- for his scenario to come true in two decades.
Why, after several decades of sustained migration and healthy demographic growth, the Hispanic population in the US is not even close to being 50%.
I truly believe that we will see exhibits of tribal African culture alongside the Neanderthal in our natural science museums in a couple hundred years.
I bet you would love that…
January 26th, 2007 at 10:41 pmIn case you didn’t notice Joanie/Rachel you can be replaced by a Chinese for profit. Feel the love yet?
January 26th, 2007 at 10:41 pmWhy should they pay you for your labor when they can hire someone cheaper?
Comment by Zep Tepi — January 26, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
EXACTLY!!! And under NAFTA, which was approved by CLINTON, Corporations can export JOBS OVERSEAS!
You’re competing with kids in China who will work for 12 cents an hour. Take THAT to your Union Boss!!!
January 26th, 2007 at 10:41 pmI would be afraid to look a stranger in the eye walking down the public street if I were a democrat.
That must be a very heavy yoke to bare.
Being a democrat.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:43 pmComment by Joanie Doe — January 26, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
BRILLIANT!!!
January 26th, 2007 at 10:44 pmWhy Bushrovians hate science:
Subject: The densest element
A major research institution has just announced the
discovery of the densest element yet known to science.
The new element has been named “Bushcronium.” Bushcronium
has one neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons,
and 224 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass
of 311.
These particles are held together by dark forces called
morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of
lepton-like particles called peons. The symbol for
Bushcronium is “W”. Bushcronium’s mass actually increases
over time, as morons randomly interact with various elements
in the atmosphere and become assistant deputy neutrons in a
Bushcronium molecule, forming isodopes.
This characteristic of moron-promotion leads some scientists
to believe that Bushcronium is formed whenever morons reach
a certain quantity in concentration. This hypothetical
quantity is referred to as “Critical Morass”.
When catalyzed with money, Bushcronium activates Foxnewsium,
January 26th, 2007 at 10:48 pman element that radiates orders of magnitude more energy,
albeit as incoherent noise, since it has 1/2 as many peons
but twice as many morons.
By: Thalia on January 14, 2007 at 03:36pm
And you aren’t? You speak in convoluted circles. I should work for 12 cents an hour because some greedy pig would sell out his own countrymen?
Whose side are you on?
January 26th, 2007 at 10:49 pmYawn.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:53 pmJoanie Doe, your funny. You make songs.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:55 pmpaul > since when does anybody pay the required minimum wage for a babysitter? You do not do withholding payroll taxes for that either. The babysitter usually says she/he will watch the kids for an agreed amount. Like for example $20 cash for 3 hours, so that would be almost 7 bucks an hour. Giving a teenager $15.45 for the 3 hours would be weird.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:58 pmI dunno about Joanie Doe, but I am an American for Americans, not an American for cheap chinese labor which she/he/it seems to be advocating.
January 26th, 2007 at 10:58 pmI love the irony in the republicans new found need for the fillibuster. Wonder what would have happened if they got there way. And if they did get the abolition of the fillibuster and it now bit them in the ass would they have been wrong then? Or now?
Joanie, maybe you could write a song about it. They’re silly.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:02 pmNat – I wonder if you have heard of a discovery which ante-dates “Bushcronium.†It’s “Liberalite.” It consists only of Neutrons, which circle each other incessantly and never change their position relative to each other.
Being comprised of neutrons, Liberalite has no effect whatsoever on surrounding matter, other than to make it more dense. But that effect is transitory, as Liberalite moves from matter to matter undisurbed by surrounding events.
Liberalite is subject to fusion reactions, which are usually quite volitile, as mixing Liberalite with any other substance causes a negative reaction, whereby positrons and negrotrons work to cancel each other out.
Liberalite is most frequently found in industrial states, which means it has a close relationship with industrial pollution, which may account for its instability under the glare of hot lights.
If ingested, Liberalite will cause vomiting and diarreaha, followed by incoherant posting on Liberalite self-help groups known as “blogs.”
The only known cure against the toxic affects of Liberalite is to listen to the entire collected works of Rush Limpbaugh, Sean Hannity, Dick Cheney and his Wife, and George W. Bush.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:04 pmI am done with discussing things with Joanie Does and Jason Hendlers.
You want your clash of civilizations and your wars and your cheap labor?
Then ye shall have it. I wash my hands of you.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:04 pmJoanie Doe, your funny. You make songs.
Comment by hellinabucket — January 26, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Joanie is Carrie Koehnline.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:05 pmI should work for 12 cents an hour because some greedy pig would sell out his own countrymen?
Comment by Zep Tepi — January 26, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
The “greedy pig” as you put it, is LIVING UP TO HIS DUTY of providing MAXIMUM PROFITS to his SHAREHOLDERS!!!
Whose side are you on?
For that, you will have to look beyond the mirror…and TP filters….
January 26th, 2007 at 11:06 pmNat – I wonder if you have heard of a discovery which ante-dates “Bushcronium.†It’s “Liberalite.†It consists only of Neutrons, which circle each other incessantly and never change their position relative to each other.
Comment by The Ghost of NineJuanJuan — January 26, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
You’re confused. That’s a symptom of “Bushcronium”.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:08 pmGhost, that’s just down right scary. If you listened to nothing but the vapid group you listed there would be no room for facts or morals or individual thoughts.
You are a scary ghost. You should try writing funny songs instead. Joanie can. Give it a try Casper.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:08 pmFor that, you will have to look beyond the mirror…and TP filters….
Comment by The Ghost of NineJuanJuan
Heh.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:10 pmLiberalite is most frequently found in industrial states, which means it has a close relationship with industrial pollution, which may account for its instability under the glare of hot lights.
Comment by The Ghost of NineJuanJuan — January 26, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
You all mixed up today. What you described is “Bushcronium†which is found in former slave states.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:12 pmWhere’s the discussion of the non-binding resolution against surge.
Instead TP is wading around in the shallows of Toby Keith and Robert Gates. Not that Gates is shallow. He’s deep, as in deep cover.
Could the Democrats just get their act together, take it on the road, and do something for this country. It’s pathetic. Our country is crumbling under the weight of a 3 trillion dollar war that has no rhyme or reason, and what is TP discussing?
Writing to Sean Hannity and condemning Toby Keith. I mean please.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:16 pmI have traveled the other side of the looking-glass,
Down the rabbit’s hole,
Past the March-hare’s madness,
And drank from the Devil’s bowl.
Below the depths of Wonderland,
The lonely darkness calls,
And beckons my soul to dwell therein,
In labyrinthical halls.
You are a scary ghost. You should try writing funny songs instead. Joanie can. Give it a try Casper.
Comment by hellinabucket — January 26, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
You think I AM SCARY??? YOU HAVE NO CLUE!!!
I give you this…set it to a tune if it pleases you:
I have traveled the other side of the looking-glass,
Down the rabbit’s hole,
Past the March-hare’s madness,
And drank from the Devil’s bowl.
Below the depths of Wonderland,
The lonely darkness calls,
And beckons my soul to dwell therein,
In labyrinthical halls.
I long to return to the darkness,
The Never-Never Land of night;
To leave behind the looking-glass,
Forever banished from its sight.
But the chess game moves ever onward,
January 26th, 2007 at 11:22 pmAnd I, a lowly pawn,
Have slain the Black Knight with a double-edged sword,
And condemned myself to the dawn.
“I long to return to the darkness
THe Never-Never Land of night”
Is that you Michael?
January 26th, 2007 at 11:25 pm155 – You have seen the other side of the mirror?
January 26th, 2007 at 11:26 pmlong to return to the darkness,
The Never-Never Land of night;
Is that you Michael, the gloved one?
January 26th, 2007 at 11:27 pmChildrenofLir — January 26, 2007 @ 11:27 pm
YOU have not been to the other side of the mirror! YOU know not who I AM.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:31 pmYou have seen the other side of the mirror?
Comment by The Ghost of NineJuanJuan
If that means I know who you are, then yes I have.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:32 pm#110 JMH
January 26th, 2007 at 11:33 pmYou make me laugh!!
I sold my car for gas money.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:34 pmWho is he Zooey?
January 26th, 2007 at 11:35 pm163 – But do you know who YOU are???
January 26th, 2007 at 11:35 pmBut do you know who YOU are???
Comment by The Ghost of NineJuanJuan
Its like Steve Carrell in 40 y/o virgin when he was told to just ask questions to pick up a girl.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:43 pmWho is he Zooey?
Comment by ForTruth — January 26, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
For that, you must look to the other side of the mirror for yourself!!!
January 26th, 2007 at 11:43 pmBut do you know who YOU are???
Comment by The Ghost of NineJuanJuan
Last time I looked, I was a person who has been to the other side of the mirror.
Why the mask?
January 26th, 2007 at 11:43 pmMirror mirror on the wall
The ghost of ninejuanjuan doth call
Who are you?
I am the gloved one
January 26th, 2007 at 11:55 pmI yam what I yam and that’s all that i am
January 26th, 2007 at 11:57 pmJanuary 27th, 2007 at 12:01 am
About Ted Kennedy, I think it was OK, I liked his decisiveness and passion in his speech…but as any other politician its kind of ridiculous when you see that those guys, every single one of them, make profits with their variety of companies they formed when they were in power.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:03 amWaking thoughts invade my dreams and weigh me down from flying
‘till I wake shivering in pools of night-terror sweat.
‘Tis no demon of slumber I fear, but Life!
Life! itself fills me with dread.
To live and walk and breathe in isoulation;
a shadow, a phantom, unseen
and unmarked by mindless minions
who follow lockstep through the shopping malls
and government halls,
chanting their mantras:
me!
me!
me!
What capital crime did I commit
to be condemned to live this life?
To be sent here by some karmic debt,
born an unaborted fetus to care-less parents,
a ward of the State, which is,
thereforce,
a ward of all;
a ward of none.
Condemned to Love
in a love-less world,
my heart reaches out.
I am the last whale in a desert ocean,
singing a song which no one hears.
Diogenes’ lamp extinguished:
truth hides in its dying wisp.
The desert drinks the rainbow dry
and thirsts for more:
my Love is given,
even the last drop.
I am used up and abandoned,
a pit mine where valuable ore
has been removed and consumed,
a toxic scar remaining,
too costly to reclaim.
Yet I am here.
An ugly boil on humanity’s arse.
Manunkind would lance me, if it could.
For manunkind is beautiful.
It survives by The Illusion.
The Illusion of beauty.
The Illusion of kindness.
The Illusion of reverence.
The Illusion of caring.
The Illusion of Love.
Love left long ago.
Only The Illusion remains.
Carnival mirrors distorting images
of who we want to be.
Power!
Force!
Mind!
Control!
The Illusions hold sway the masses
in their dis-beliefs.
This night the veil grows thin.
This night, I will rise up again:
The pain of countless children starving to death;
The anguish of mothers and daughters raped;
Millions upon millions of innocent voices
silenced by war and hatred-sparked violence.
Five thousand generation’s of ancestors rise with me and walk with me this night.
Waking thoughts invade my dreams and weigh me down from flying.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:03 am“…reveal my true nature to man…”
Now just hold on one gosh darn minute. There’ll be no exposing of private expartes in this here neck of the woods.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:04 amAn ugly boil on humanity’s arse.
Now you’ve said a mouthful
January 27th, 2007 at 12:05 amComment by The Ghost of NineJuanJuan
Wow. That would suck. I love flying. Sometimes they just hitch a ride, but don’t weigh me down.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:06 amweigh me down from flying.
No No. Fly away please
January 27th, 2007 at 12:07 amSee Casper, that’s part of your problem. Your living on the “other side” of the mirror. You are just a reflection and not real. I walk away from the mirror and go out to the real world and your stuck in a mirror. Kind of like a
“Rat in a drain ditch, caught on a limb”
January 27th, 2007 at 12:07 amGhost could use some Existential therapy.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:07 amCopied this from FDL:
Here’s a scary list: 28 senators who on Wednesday voted “yea†to a Wayne Allard amendment that would have eliminated the federal minimum wage. Note that the list includes no less than TWO Republican presidential contenders…one of them John “‘Common Sense Conservative’ Means I Play to Lose†McCain.
Alexander (R-TN)
January 27th, 2007 at 12:08 amAllard (R-CO)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thomas (R-WY)
“the nearer your destination, the more you keep slip sliding away”
this is fun Casper.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:09 amNineJuanJuan could use some poetry courses.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:10 amI like those lists TrueBlue.
The ones who are bought it seems.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:12 amOr maybe Casper is more like
“how can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat”
January 27th, 2007 at 12:14 amComment by ChildrenofLir — January 27, 2007 @ 12:07 am
Comment by hellinabucket — January 27, 2007 @ 12:07 am
Comment by ForTruth — January 27, 2007 @ 12:07 am
When faced with an uncomfortable truth, you turn to mocking.
Zooey knows. and She is wise to keep silent, for you must learn the lessons yourselves.
And, for now, I bid you goodKnight.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:14 ami know too…
January 27th, 2007 at 12:17 amI know who you are, Ghost. Peace.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:17 amGhost
Mocking! I was deadly serious.
Aren’t you the gloved one?
January 27th, 2007 at 12:18 amDamn Rachel.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:38 amZooey knows. and She is wise to keep silent, for you must learn the lessons yourselves.
And, for now, I bid you goodKnight.
Comment by The Ghost of NineJuanJuan
Heh. I’m good.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:39 amI would rather not have anything shoved up there. It’s a one way street, and that’s the wrong way.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:40 amThat’s funny, I was thinking about BNF and where he has been lately.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:43 amRachel.
I watched a program on elderly suicide today. The ones who recieved good treatment, for extended periods, were in Canada and the UK.
January 27th, 2007 at 1:54 amThat’s funny, I was thinking about BNF and where he has been lately.
Comment by ForTruth — January 27, 2007 @ 12:43 am
See the Grey thread from yesterday about Judd departing-to see why Bris. has ceased to post.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:27 amHe might be serious this time.
Post 191 is an imposter troll who has hijacked my name to post vulgar crap on TP threads. The person has been reported to TP Staff and I have asked TP to delete them.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:39 amYea Jay, that’s PAT/rachel/Joanie Doe.
January 27th, 2007 at 3:09 amTo all TP women. Trannies not included.
Liberated But Alone…
Okay, so you burned your bras and now you are liberated. Yes, you’ve gained many freedoms that were previously not acceptable for women.
You can ask a man for a date and even be the one who proposes if you decide to do so.
You can pursue your own careers and many of you have proven that you are quite capable of leading as well as following.
You can drink beer straight from the bottle, go to male stripper shows, smoke cigars, and use any choice cuss word that you want; whereever you want.
You are indeed liberated.
You’ve worked hard for it, you’ve earned it, and no one should deny you what countless generations of your gender have struggled and sacrificed to accomplish.
However, none of this makes you necessarily attractive, desired, wanted, or pursued.
In fact, should you be one of those women who is caught up in the current trend to act and be “bitchy,” doing so actually makes you very unattractive in the eyes of most men. Yes, you say that you can live without men who will not readily accept you should you have a bitchy attitude? Fine. Just realize that you’ve narrowed the field of men down to a very small minority. Furthermore, any willingness on their part to give in to a woman who feigns equality when really exercising control may be more out of their desparation than any kind of true acceptance.
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Independent is Good, But…
Before you dismiss the rest of this article, please read on. It could very well be that the point being made here will help any female reader gain some needed insight into the workings of the male mind and visa-versa.
You see, few males would ever demean a woman who has done well in her chosen career. Most of us enjoy a gal with some spunk.
One of this writer’s favorite movie scenes is from “Overboard,” starring Goldie Hawne and Kirk Russell. Her character joins him for a beer at a redneck bar. When she reaches for her drink, Russell’s character states that, “I’ve always been attracted to women who drink their beer straight from the bottle.” The point is that we men enjoy our women in all shapes and sizes and with all of your liberties as well, but we are absolutely turned off and disgusted when you feel that you can only relate to us with an “attitude.”
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Understand How Men See You…
Much like the gay male who overdoes his femininity with flamboyance, we view a female who is overly aggressive, manipulative, demeaning, and indignate in much the same way. There will never be any substitute for the expression true humanity, whether it is demonstrated by a man or a woman. Nothing is more attractive to a male than a liberated woman with a balanced attitude that is genuine and considerate.
I happen to work in an environment filled with young adults. Not only that, but I have two grown sons. If overly aggressive women could but hear the disgust for them as these young fellows talk, they would have to reconsider their self-deluded arrogance that demands they portray themselves as bitchy women. Except for whimps, there are few real men who really want anything to do with women who are self-gradiozed and demeaning toward men.
These are the same women who revel in denigrating men for their supposed cluelessness. In truth, this issue has less to do with any difference between the sexes and much more to do with whether or not one is going to be a decent human being.
I’ve had the experience of dating a woman who, although she was physically gorgeous, portrayed a superior attitude in all that she said and did. Her response to our four dates together resulted in an e-mail message stating that I was very “basic and simple” and that she was really looking for her “equal.” Even if I am basic and simple, the point is that she has obviously taken this attitude toward all men because that was most of the content of our conversations–her thirteen years of dating one “jerk” after another. However, I do think that she deserves her “equal.” After all, bitchy guys do exist as well.
Like my four-date-nightmare, there are too many women who complain about men not being romantic. The truth is that we guys are very capable of being romantic. It’s just that a woman with a self-centered attitude isn’t worth the effort on our part. Oh, we’ll go to bed with her as long as we can tolerate her barbs, griping, and whining but don’t think for one minute that we are going to ever get down on one knee and ask if she would like to wear our engagement ring.
No, that request will be saved for a truly liberated woman–the one who is liberated from herself.
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January 27th, 2007 at 3:58 amAggressiveness vs. Attraction…
In a perfect world, liberated women would be less aggressive and good men would be much more understanding regarding how to treat a woman more as a person than prey. Those couples who are enjoying a truly mutually fulfilling relationship are doing so because they have worked at developing balance, understanding each other, and relearning the simple truth that all of us need to be treated as valued human beings if we are to love truly and feel genuinely loved in return.
The world isn’t perfect but, then again, each of us has the ability to readjust our thinking so that we can bring both maturity and understanding to our own primary relationships.
Either that or we’ll just have to adapt to being unhappy and very much alone.
May every woman experience nothing but the right to be free in every way and do well in whatever they attempt to do with no man-made obstacles to have to confront along the way. That is your right and that is what your fore-mothers worked so hard to accomplish for you.
All I am saying here is that some of you are obviously making the mistake of becoming exactly what you have historically hated in men.
Don’t be a bitch and if you are one, don’t blame it on men. Take responsibility for yourselves and be our friends, companions, counterparts, equals, lovers, and partners.
Go to town Senator. Lay it out, loud and proud.
Republicans at this point need to just stfu and let the grown ups run the country for a while. They’ve screwed up the military, the economy, and the technology curve — the three major building blocks of global influence — and by doing so have absolutly shot America in the back. Yep, sent us to war and shot us in the back as we marched out to fight.
Republicans, you are evil by nature of the actions of your party and your membership in support of it. Evil. This is the kind of stuff that damns your soul to hell, if you believe in that sort of thing.
It is a deep and wide pit of failure that your party has dug, big enough to drag the whole country down and bury it. By the grace of God, we will protect America and hold it fast. The Democrats stand between you and the country, and we will not let American freedom and prosperity be sacrificed for your greed and vanity.
Die a thousand political deaths!
January 27th, 2007 at 4:32 amHEAR HEAR DM!! Good post!!
January 27th, 2007 at 8:41 amSo Paul,
You believe that students and young people don’t deserve to get paid a higher wage. Even though college tuition and costs are rising, students don’t deserve to get paid a higher wage. Aren’t you an elistist. Go eat cake, Paul.
January 27th, 2007 at 9:46 amDM – good post… you are right… it is time for the grown ups to take control. Now we have to get rid of the child in the White House along with the delusional lunatic in the VP position.
January 27th, 2007 at 9:50 amIt is a deep and wide pit of failure that your party has dug, big enough to drag the whole country down and bury it.
Comment by DM
That is exactly PNACs mission. It is designed to break America financially, break her spirit and divide the masses. The rest is smooth sailing for them.
They know that a nation that is broken, and I mean broken in every sense of the word, they know it is easy prey and easy pickings for them to fulfill their mission. A new world order.
With the least amount of resistance and casualties.
Can you imagine a conversation by these jerks at PNAC that got overheard by you?
” All is going very well and no resistance! No resistance! Our planning called for a long list of contingency plans should resistance be felt. But so far their is none. What is wrong with these stupid sheep where they won`t even demonstrate for what they say they believe in. ”
I wonder what the ” contingency ” plan would entail from PNACs end should massive nationwide resistance ensue and the demonstrations never cease?
January 27th, 2007 at 11:32 am#138, Gregor,
The numbers you leave out are the predicted escalation of sub-Saharan Africans with AIDS going from 20 million to 100 million in a generation or two, as predicted. AIDS, genocide and a wildly distorted population vs. age graph shows the imminent collapse of African tribal culture – ignore if you like.
With China and India emerging as economic super powers, which crave natural resources, as the US did after it emerged as an economic power, it simply follows the same pattern that they will look to Africa – rich in resources and collapsing in population.
January 27th, 2007 at 1:26 pmThere was a demonstration of 400k+ a little while back that Fox News didn’t report on. They don’t cover anything liberal or progressive on Fox News. Just because you didn’t see it, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
I dont watch FoxNews.
January 27th, 2007 at 1:56 pmSo in a nutshell Pud in the Ass Boy,
Don`t address me unless I address you first.
You don`t ask questions me.
You answer them.
Got it?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:00 pmThis is a great speech, make no mistake about it.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:06 pmNow I know why the cons hate the Kennedys so much…the Kennedys have more moral fiber in their fingers than the entire GOP put together. Cons are just cowards, crooks. and liars…nuff said.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:49 pmDie. Die. Die.
Just pass the damn thing you morons.
Oh, and unless you want to see the 1800s creep back on us with dirt-poor wages (and the middle class vanish), I strongly suggest not abolishing it.
January 27th, 2007 at 4:14 pmOh, and unless you want to see the 1800s creep back on us with dirt-poor wages (and the middle class vanish), I strongly suggest not abolishing it.
Comment by jake3988 — January 27, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
BUT THAT IS THE GOAL!!! Since it is the Middle Class which spawns revolution and prods the lower class to overthrow the ruling Party, the Party must eliminate the Middle Class.
As long as the poor are kept POOR AND IGNORANT, the RULING CLASS WILL RULE FOREVER!!!
January 27th, 2007 at 9:11 pmPaul,
As a small business owner, my lowest paid employee is making $10.50 an hour and I pay for insurance to boot. This is called being responsible for my employees well being. Since developing skills and getting an education cost MONEY!!! I feel that I can best serve my employees by paying them a good wage and take some of the burden of the other costs of living off of their hands. Is my goal to make money? Yes it is. But I have a responsibility to my employees as well. If my employees think that I don’t care for them, they won’t care for my company and my clients will suffer
January 27th, 2007 at 9:46 pm[...]it simply follows the same pattern that they will look to Africa – rich in resources and collapsing in population.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — January 27, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
Once more, I am replying for the benefit of others -since you are allergic to facts or evidence.
You haven’t provided a single -not one- source to back up any of the pipe-dreams you have posited here. You are peddling your crackpot alternate version of reality, as usual.
You still have to name one, just one, source (a demographic studies center, a statistics agency, an international population studies organisation, etc.) that has alerted of a serious, sustained population decline throughout East Africa.
Not to mention that the massive migration from Asia to Africa that you like to trot out, is only happening in your head. And no, it doesn’t “follow” that the Chinese will migrate en masse to Africa, no matter how much you would like that to be true.
In brief, your opinion is not supported by reality. You are a quack.
January 28th, 2007 at 12:15 am#212, Mark,
How about you pay for your employees training / education, so that they can find better work / pay than you can offer?
By merely paying them a higher wage than you can be justified, by either their market value, or their contribution, then you are just giving them a fish, and not teaching them to fish. By interferring with market forces, you are not driving them to migrate to more profitable endevours, further weakening them, and our economy., but that isn’t important to a liberal – looking good to their peers above all, and, of course, feeling good, comes way before actually doing good.
January 28th, 2007 at 12:45 amI think they should abolish the mininmum wage.
January 28th, 2007 at 6:28 amI don’t think it would take long to “work things out” with corporate america after that….
I discuss this on a recent post at my blog (shameless plug).
An article by article by Egan of the NY Times (free registration required) puts to bed once and for all the myth that minimum wage hurts business:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/us/11minimum.html?
January 28th, 2007 at 8:00 amPaul,
I give my employes time off to attend school. I have arranged my schedule to allow them an opportunity to attend during the day if that is required. I also push them not to be satisfied with working at my company and that education is the only way they will move on. They wouldn’t be able to attend any higher education if I paid minimum wage
January 28th, 2007 at 8:35 amGregor Samsa. I wanted to let you know that I wasn’t ignoring your link to the WSJ article about the growth in Portland. I had some reservations about the argument, but to be honest I couldn’t figure out how to explain it. First, I believe that the article is objective and a strong point in the argument to convince nay-sayers the economy won’t collapse by raising the minimum wage.
However, as you look down the article, the author points out that, although the local economy has grown, some have suffered directly from the raise in minimum wage (i.e. agriculture, others). There were the quotes from some small businessmen about how the raise has had a negative impact on their particular business.
From the article: “Some employers are being squeezed, for sure, and their experiences will become ammunition for those who will fight any increase in the federal minimum wage.”
And there were the studies referenced in the middle of the article:
“more than 90 studies in more than 15 countries since the early 1990s shows nearly two-thirds of the studies find a “consistent” though not always statistically significant negative impact on employment.”
The unease I had is, however, with the logic: If a raise in the minimum wage is bad for the economy, there will be no growth.
A simplist example to explain why I don’t understand the logic: 18th century ship sails from America to England. Enroute the crew realizes that they somehow forgot to scrape the barnacles from the bottom of the ship (per procedure, before every departure) to reduce the drag and increase performance. Enroute they enjoy stronger than normal tailwinds and currents and arrive in England 1 day ahead of schedule. Before the return trip, the crew approaches the captain and says, “Why should we scrape off the barnacles. The work is difficult and demeaning and besides, we didn’t scrape of the barnacles on the last journey and it didn’t hurt our progress, it actually improved it!”
I think this article is a strong point in your argument to raise the minimum wage, but it is by no means conclusive.
January 28th, 2007 at 9:23 amMark. I appreciate your points. I’m curious about a few things; would you consider your employees entry level? If you weren’t their employer, what would their skills be worth to the next best employer? Would you be concerned that if the minimum wage were raised, the premium pay and benefits that you pay, (that I assume attracts premium applicants) would have to be increased to retain its relative premium? Does raising your labor costs at some point effect your ability to profit and remain viable as an entity that employees people.
By the way, you sound like a great guy to work for.
January 28th, 2007 at 9:31 amPaul,
I do not consider my full time employees entry level. I have several part-time employees who work for me on the week-ends. My company provides court appointed misdeamor classes. My part time employees have regular jobs during the week and facilitate classes for my company on the week-ends
Two of my full time employees have worked for me 3 and 1 year respectively. They are not highly educated, but are enrolled in college programs at local schools
As far as the minimum wage issue, the lowest paid employee ismaking $10.50/hour the the wage increase will not affect my operating costs. My operating costs are affected by facility fees, such as rent; materials fees, such as workbooks, handouts. I also raised the pay of all of my facilitators. I have had to raise the fees I charge for my classes to compensate for all of those associated increases in operating costs. I have also had to require my full time employees to pay a larger co-pay for the insurance we provide. The increase was from $20 to $30 so that I keep providing insurance for them. I hope this answers your questions
bythe way, I am always looking for good people to teach for me
January 28th, 2007 at 11:37 amI think this article is a strong point in your argument to raise the minimum wage, but it is by no means conclusive.
Comment by paul — January 28, 2007 @ 9:23 am
If not a conclusive argument in favor of raising the minimum wage, it should put to rest the notion that a hike would be detrimental to the economy.
Of course, change will affect a few. BUt again, it will not spell economic disaster -as history shows. Which is the point I was making.
January 28th, 2007 at 2:47 pmMark. Thank you.
January 28th, 2007 at 3:13 pmThe government’s job is to strike a healthy balance between a strong capitalistic economy and protecting the workers in that economy from abuse from businesses.
In the past, there were no fair employment practices and we saw countless examples of how businesses, given the chance, abused the US worker. On the other hand, some unions, once given a large degree of influence over the market, became corrupted by organized crime and other influences, they lost their moral advantage on many employment issues.
In the recent past, you could look at the difference in pay between an average worker in a company and their CEO. These CEO’s averaged a 20 times higher salary…..today it is now 400 times higher.
In the past, the federal government has acknowledged the fundamental unfairness to US workers. That is why there is fair employment practices to prevent discrimination, abuse, etc of the US worker. The government has also acted to help businesses to recover from financial crisis by giving low cost loans, tax breaks, etc.
You cannot make the case these workers should only be paid what the market should judge them to make. The reason is because the government has acted repeatedly to save businesses from going bankrupt to this day. If you say the market should decide, then let these weak businesses going under. But, because that is not the practice today, the feds must impose the higher minimum wage to protect these workers from abuse.
January 28th, 2007 at 6:50 pmEcon 101 -
You’re a business owner, the price of the widgets that you sell goes up, you then charge a higher price for the widgets to recover the % profit you need to earn. Labor is no different than widgets. Labor is just another cost of doing business. With a federal law, all businesses are affected the same way (larger corps don’t get discounts due to their buying power). There will be no advantage, all businesses that are paying minumum wage will all be paying the same minimum wage.
States that have already raised the minimum wage did not suffer any job losses or business closures that were statistically significant related to the raise in the minimum wage.
This is really about class warfare but the repugnicans are too chicken to say it out loud. Day of reckoning in 2008!
January 29th, 2007 at 4:07 pmTake “teresa” for example: She left high school after pregnant. Daddy went on to college. She works for $5.15. Her car has bald tires. Her brother keeps it going. She pays for expensive gas goimg to get her GED. She tries to be a good single mom, but is strangled by poverty. Tell her that getting 7.25 hurts our economy. What she sees is a gross of( $2.10 times 40 = $84.00) That is a new used tire/or diapers or a night out or rent or gas.Is she hurting your business? Shame on us if we are meanspirited to our most vulnerable people. Is this america or an international corp.? Be decent for a change. George has NO idea of her existence. I do.
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