Everyone knows except Mitch McConnell.
By on Jan 27th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Everyone knows except Mitch McConnell.
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) “said benchmarks are the best way to determine if the Iraqis are holding up their end of the bargain but he stopped short of saying what the U.S. should do it the Iraqis fall short. ‘I think everyone knows what the consequences are,’ McConnell said without specifying what he thinks they are, even when pressed. ‘I’m not going to start playing out the scenarios,’ he added.”
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Sure Mitch won’t play out the scenarios because they’re all too horrific if he does. The fact is that this administration and the GOP have absolutely “NO CLUE” about what they are doing - never had a clue going in (All chickenhawks who never saw a day of combat themselves and therefore have no experience to qualify them in this bailywyck)….and never will have a clue when it’s all over and they are impeached. They live in a delusional reality and are so twisted and demented that they really believe that what they are doing is right - and, BTW, so did Adolph Hitler!
January 27th, 2007 at 11:33 amALMOST grew a set there, Senator.
January 27th, 2007 at 11:34 amTypical, right-wing non-response. I won’t even waste my time talking about this nobody, as he’s hardly worth the time or energy.
January 27th, 2007 at 11:45 amNow lets get one thing straight. Loose lips sink ships in wartime. You think the enemy doesn`t watch this shit on TV?
Think again.
McConnell isnt hiding a thing. He is merely telling the reporters this in essence:
” You are going to spin the story anyway, why would I want to make a comment to help embellish and give your article even the smallest little modicom of the truth, you folks do that perfectly fine on your own.
He isn`t “hiding” anything as some would suggest.
TP? Your story is misleading to the nth degreee.
Again.
January 27th, 2007 at 11:48 amI’ll tell you what the consequences are,and Mitch should know this;
Maliki loses his job (strings),and we install another puppet;and then we will be asked to give this ‘leader’ another 6 to 9 months to get things ‘right’.
See,it never ends;it never was intended to.
January 27th, 2007 at 11:54 am‘I think everyone knows what the consequences are,’ McConnell said without specifying what he thinks they are, even when pressed. ‘I’m not going to start playing out the scenarios,’ he added.â€
McConnell doesn’t know jack shit.
January 27th, 2007 at 11:57 amMM is one of those “fight em there so we don’t have to fight ‘em here” folks.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:04 pmHe puts Israel’s well being before yours and mine.
Jimmy Carter is right.
But there are also other consequences for the war party ..loosing big time in 2008 elections, and McConnel is on the list of 2008 politicians seeking re-election.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:09 pmI understand that there is a new retirement village instituted in D.C. especially for trolls and perverts and Bush staffers. Rush, McConnell, Snow, why- absolutely EVERYBODY who is ANYBODY is JUST DYING to get in! -Absolutely DYING! But, I don’t want to play out the scenarios. You’ll have to see for yourself.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:13 pmI decided to go looking around on the right leaning sites to read what I can and maybe learn something…
After crunching on that experience for a while something occurred to me…
The American soldiers have invested their own lives and the lives of those standing right next to them (which they would have thrown their own bodies in the way if they could be given the chance to have saved them) AND this means no matter what “PLAN” the democrats or republicans come up with it MUST provide a CLEAR and important part to be played by these people who have invested so much. If this could be done and the soldiers could see the good they would be doing… well… if the soldiers start talking to their families and they can see a way out that also allows their sacrifice to not go to waste… I think they would take it….
No matter who’s plan it originally was.
Turn the tide of opinion of the soldiers and this war is over.
And then we can get back to concentrating on Al Qeada.
What we need for Al Qeada is a death blow. What would give us that? A 100 year war? If I had to bet I would say that wont end well for any of us. BUT if we could get the ME peoples to change their minds about a few things Al Qeada would be hunted down by their own people.
That sure is a lot of people to affect though isn’t it? How could we get the attention of let alone change the minds of a billion or so people? The other day when Kerry was giving the first part of his “I am not running again” speech he said we cannot solve the Sunni/Shiite problem…
What if we could? Christianity had a Catholic/Protestant problem…
What would it take to get the religious leaders of the Sunnis/Shiites together and talk with people from the West that could impart their knowledge of the experiences of what the West had gone through? If these religious leaders from the Sunnis/Shiites were able to come to an agreement to disagree on their religion wouldn’t a vast majority of the billion Muslims listen to their own religious leaders and stop killing each other?
If they stooped killing each other couldn’t we then have the opportunity to try to reason with them on other important issues like Israel and Iraq? Wouldn’t THEY be able then to put tremendous pressure on the Palestinians to get their act together?
Maybe it is just easier convincing a few religious leaders with words than it is to convince a billion people with bombs.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:15 pmUh-oh- Now, you’ve done it-
January 27th, 2007 at 12:18 pmgerald - Turn the tide of opinion of the soldiers and this war is over.
one of the highlights of webb’s speech the other night was his pointing out that in past wars the soldiers KNEW that their government was behind them, and leading them, and would take care of them before, during and after…
January 27th, 2007 at 12:20 pmtoday’s troops are finding out the opposite…
and THAT really pisses me off…
#12- Absolutely.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:22 pmThe soldiers are simply following orders. One of the many titles that come with the Presidency is: Commander-In-Chief of the military. The Shiites and Sunnis have been fighting with each other for hundreds of years. A simple arbitration is not going to be any sort of quick fix, at all. What might be of some good, however, is to have certain people like Jimmy Carter and Bill Richardson in the middle of the fray, arbitrating and acting as goodwill ambassadors, offering peace and sincerity. Right now, there is no attempt at peace talk or ANY kind of talk, at all. It’s so sad- that no one is in charge of this fiasco and no truth being spoken.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:40 pmWell, it’s fairly obvious what at least many in one certain group of Americans will probably do if the Iraqis fall short. I’m referring, of course, to the the American troops stationed in Iraq — both those already there and those whose fate it will be to become part of the so-called “surge — and what many of them will probably do if the Iraqis fall short is DIE.
If the question pertains more to what the American government will do if the Iraqis fall short, that’s less certain. Bush is quite adamant in his refusal to bring the troops home until he believes that we’ve accomplished our objectives in Iraq (although it would be helpful to have an idea of what precisely those are) — but the difficulty with creating benchmarks is that they’re meaningless without some sort of negative consequence for failure on the part of the Iraqis to fulfill their obligations.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:48 pmAbout 40 people staged a counter-protest.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
40? Oy, that’s sad.
Hey Faiz, you put up a small thread about this yesterday — I would like to see a follow-up thread! With a nice picture of the crowd!
January 27th, 2007 at 12:51 pmCollossal minority minded idiot.
January 27th, 2007 at 1:11 pmRe: DC protest
January 27th, 2007 at 1:15 pmHuff-Po article
Talks about active duty military joining protest
Hell, even CNN covered the protest and they aren’t anywhere near progressive.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — January 27, 2007 @ 1:01 pm
It’s live on C-span right now.
January 27th, 2007 at 1:16 pmRaw Story’s account
January 27th, 2007 at 1:18 pm“Turn the tide of opinion of the soldiers and this war is over.”
The Military Times did a poll that showed that something like 70% of the soldiers they interviewed think we need to get out of Iraq. What good did it do? The Rethugs and the Bushies could care less what the military thinks. They will stay in Iraq forever since they need to do so to ensure that our country gets it’s “fair share” of Iraq’s oil (meaning the lions share).
The war was, is and always will be about oil. Hopefully the American public is finally getting it.
January 27th, 2007 at 1:18 pmAmericaBlog
January 27th, 2007 at 1:23 pmEditorial from a blogger who’s there.
> What we need for Al Qeada is a death blow.
Can’t death-blow that. It’s difficult enough to death-blow terrorist networks in your OWN culture. Basque ETA or Corsican Freedom Fighters (both with totally laughable goals) still exist and kill.
> What if we could? Christianity had a Catholic/Protestant problem…
But you know how _that one_ went. Massacres, deportations, pogroms during centuries, often due to fact that the schism was a convenient excuse to inflame the masses for quick political and territorial gain (30 years war and all that cr*p, whole regions depopulated and gone up in flames, man). Got you totally mofo crazy radicals fleeing to the newfound lands to the west etc. This thing hasn’t burnt itself out either, just check out Northern Ireland from time to time. You can’t reason about religious affiliation with people, flat-out impossible.
> What would it take to get the religious leaders of the Sunnis/Shiites together and talk
> with people from the West that could impart their knowledge of the experiences of
> what the West had gone through?
Remember that Europe and the Arab/Muslim world have been very close together for a long long time, sometimes well-integrated sometimes in bloody fights. Imparting knowledge isn’t the big problem, they have libraries too. The problem is that Iraq is a quite thoroughly messed-up place (has been since its creation), heaps of bad karma has accumulated over time and lots of Big Fat Cretins in seats of power see opportunities in promoting mayhem. Now what? Impossible to say. The chemicals are mixed now. You can only hope that vigorous cooling will keep the reaction down.
January 27th, 2007 at 1:25 pmItch McCornhole, another rightwing tool in the Bush/Rove box of tricksters.
-GSD
January 27th, 2007 at 1:34 pmIraq- Mesopotania-The “Cradle” of Civilization. It’s in the bible (if you believe it) and it was a hot-bed back then, too.
January 27th, 2007 at 1:36 pmDidn’t repugs used to call this ‘Pass the buck’ politics?
January 27th, 2007 at 1:51 pm“McConnell doesn’t know jack shit.”
And you do?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:02 pm“MM is one of those “fight em there so we don’t have to fight ‘em here†folks.”
And you would rather fight them here?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:03 pmComment by michael
McConnel knows what’s going on;he just chooses to lick Bush’s boots.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:06 pm“I decided to go looking around on the right leaning sites to read what I can and maybe learn something”
And so tell us just what right wing sites you used to LEARN something?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:06 pm“today’s troops are finding out the opposite”
Just WHAT are they finding out?????
January 27th, 2007 at 2:08 pm“he just chooses to lick Bush’s boots.”
Can you TRY to be more specific?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:09 pm“Turn the tide of opinion of the soldiers and this war is over.”
A bit traitorous?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:10 pm“Thousands of anti-war protesters demanded a withdrawal of U.S. troops in a demonstration in Washington today”
Yup! The white flag party!
January 27th, 2007 at 2:11 pm“The Military Times did a poll that showed that something like 70% of the soldiers they interviewed think we need to get out of Iraq.”
And just who were these soldiers?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:12 pmAnd just who were these soldiers?
Comment by michael
Not you.
I see Michael’s posting from his basement foxhole, again.
Bucking for a good conduct medal for coming in on your day off, private?
I guess we should have more respect for the Michaels of the Internet Brigade. It must be largely thankless work typing these hard-charging missives while humping along the Internet trenches with a full pack of Cheetos strapped to your back. Perhaps they’ll design an award just for your brave efforts: The Control Copy Medal of Freedom.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:27 pmYup! The white flag party!
Comment by michael
There’s no need to point out that yours is more yellow, than white.
But I will anyway.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:29 pm“I see Michael’s posting from his basement foxhole, again.”
Just the type of response I was expecting from you liberals. Couldn’t answer any of my questions? Huh?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:31 pm“McConnell doesn’t know jack shit.â€
And you do?
Comment by michael
I know you’re a pissed-soaked troll.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:33 pmThis week Lt. Gen. Odom’s spoke before a Congressional hearing with his analysis of the war and why it has been a failure.
His opinion is that once the U.S. begins a withdrawal of its forces, the rest of the world, who have an equal or greater stake in a stable Middle East, cannot sit on the sidelines but must participate in restoring order while Iraqis form a concensus government.
We can’t militarily win a civil war. This war has strengthened and supported the goals of Iran more than those of the U.S.
According to him our monumental disaster has been arrogance and unilateralism.
Great diary by “fly” posted at dKos this morning with link to full story- Must read. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/27/104450/152
January 27th, 2007 at 2:38 pm#40 Michael…you seem to know a lot about M. McConnel, can you tell us why his wife Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao does not use his last name,as conservative as he is…I know that when Elizabeth Dole was Secretary of Labor..she called herself Mrs. Dole….why Elaine isn’t called Mrs. Elaine McConnel?. just curious….!!
January 27th, 2007 at 2:44 pm“Turn the tide of opinion of the soldiers and this war is over.â€
A bit traitorous?
Comment by michael
I heard this exact thing in my head while I was writing it when I imagined what the right wing hacks would say….
If you cannot convince the people why we morally should be doing a war then you have betrayed us. If criminals have perverted our countries power we have every right to convince ALL our citizens including the ones in the military of a better way.
What the soldiers want is to make a difference for the better…not lick Bush balls.
The criminals in charge do not deserve loyalty but the soldiers have no one else offering a plan that spells out a primary goal of providing a role for the soldiers to have earned something great for their equally great sacrifice. The loyalty of our soldiers belong to the CONSTITUTION not the president. The president in America is not that important. The Congress is the one closest to the people. If the president is not capable of fullfilling his duties then it is the obligation of the Congress to direct the loyalties of the soldiers to the Constitution to bring about the will of the people.
After the American revolutionary war many people loved George Washington so much they offered him to be king. George said he didnt fight one king George to become another one… he declined. This country belongs to the people and it was made clear from the very beginning. The soldiers loyalty belongs to us… not a criminal president.
Give them glory and bring them home.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:45 pmI want to congratulate michael for the worst consecutive comments in any thread ever. Do you have any idea of your own or you are just going to be rethoric and all?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:46 pmPerhaps some of you aren’t old enough to remember Vietnam other than what spin you’ve read. The american people and then finally the government were NOT supporting them. Once again, this was a war of choice with no legitimate rationale, no plan for the war itself, and certainly no plan for the peace following the destruction of their country. Sounding a bit familiar?
The horror is that these patriots who went to fight this insane war for nothing to gain came home to find that the entire american public had turned their backs on them because of the ignorant, egomaniacal administration which later led to it’s own self-destruction ala resignation of Albert E. Neuman-Nixon (before impeachment).
Once again, it is history repeating itself…..the people want this war to be over not just because it’s insane and unfounded but because it is tanking this country economically and will result in the ultimate fall of our entire democracy. Bush in 6 years has undone what patriots have taken 200 years in this country to create - and continues to be enabled.
This war, unfortunately, has absolutely nothing to do with the brave souls who are being sacrificed so one man can attempt to save face and create that all-important “legacy” to which he so often is preoccupied with and referring to (Cheney did it last Sunday)….It should be crystal clear to anyone with more than a room temperature IQ and a modicum of morality that we are sacrificing life, limb, and future for the ego of one sadly demented man - a man who never grew up - a man who continues to live in the bubble of delusion - where his “reality” is a dual reality and clearly not the reality of our troops, the Iraqis, or the american people.
Impeach them both before they do further damage and irreparable harm to this country. They are the criminals - liars, thiefs, and charlatans. They will soon turn this war around to the point where our troops will come home to demonstrations and rebuke - just like Vietnam unless we do the moral thing and show some respect for them - they are ill-equipped, have no idea who the “enemy” is, and are caught in the middle of a civil war.
This is placing our troops in serious harm’s way and asking for them to be targets.
Where is our collective sense of morality? Isn’t it time that the american people say “No” to this demented egomaniac?
January 27th, 2007 at 2:47 pmCouldn’t answer any of my questions? Huh?
And just who were these soldiers?
Comment by michael
Not you.
Asked, and answered.
“Turn the tide of opinion of the soldiers and this war is over.â€
A bit traitorous? Comment by michael
No, just an opinion. Why do you seemingly hate the right to free speech?
These are your questions?
I thought you were talking to yourself again, and didn’t want to be rude, and interrupt.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:47 pmmichael’s here for the hugs!
January 27th, 2007 at 2:51 pmComment by El Tonno
You missed the point. Christianity had alot of bad things happen… we have been there and done that and got over it. That gives us perspective… no more holy wars in the west. We dont have burnings at the stake or beheadings anymore. There is a lesson to be learned from our history. Just because people have libraries does not make it up in their face where they are forced to confront the issues. People can decide to walk away from reason and declare holy war on each other… but that is the only out come unless you first TRY something else.
Religion is about the standardization of thoughts and opinions on a massive scale. This is exactly what we want to happen. We want many many people to deny the idea of killing in the name of god. To call it blasphemy and mean it. For the elders to condem the younger generations when they break this trust. Religion can pull this off where politics and war (short of genocide) cannot.
January 27th, 2007 at 2:52 pmThe war was, is and always will be about oil. Hopefully the American public is finally getting it.
Comment by Kate Henry
If the military families decide they want something else the republicans will all turn on Bush and then he and Chenney will be impeached…
January 27th, 2007 at 2:53 pmMichael, could you please enlighten us about when this war will end, I am sure you agree that no war lasts forever and there is no just thing as an infinte war. So,tell us what victory in Iraq should look like, in your mind? may be we are just an ignorant or misinformed people…may be the great knowledge you have can help us…so how do you describe victory in IRAQ…? you must have an idea….because nobdoy fights for nothing but idiots…,so what is victory to you? Tell us..we are waiting..
January 27th, 2007 at 2:59 pmTo call it blasphemy and mean it. For the elders to condem the younger generations when they break this trust. Religion can pull this off where politics and war (short of genocide) cannot.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr
Probably, but then you introduce the notion of dogma in the no-war argument. Somebody can ask: Hey, why it is a blasphemy to do wars? And then you go: Cuz God forbids it. Thats a dogma. Thats no reasoning, therefore you cant teach people why wars shouldnt be done.
In fact, wars shouldnt be done cuz a lot of people suffer, not becuz some god told us not to fight each other. Common sense can pull it off, not religions. In some way, fanatism brought us here. And fanatism is based on dogmas. And there goes the vice circle again. Teach people to think, to question, to criticize and to respect each other. No religion is necessary.
January 27th, 2007 at 3:00 pm51- Juan…Excellent points , well written.
January 27th, 2007 at 3:10 pmComment by Juan C
I am a basically software engineer. I am looking at the CONTEXT of the situation of a mass population that does not think with reason and logic as much as Americans do because their entire culture still has no concept of seperation of church and state. This means that to even communicate to them you must talk in THEIR language… which at this time is the language of religious dogma and loyalty to whatever the religious leaders say.
Jim Jones convinced alot of people to do illogical things. The popes of the past have convinced large numbers of people to go MURDER muslims in the holy land in the name of JESUS….. get my point… this dynamic system does not only have to be used for evil…. it can also be used for good… infact that is pretty much the whole point to organized religion…. now that power often leads to bad results and I would not normally recommend introducing people to religious edicts to get them to change however these people are already long past being introduced to religious dogma…. it is just a matter of changing the words of the Muslims clerics that are now preaching to kill Americans or Sunnis or Shiites or Jews to instead say different words and that will spread just like the hate was spread before.
Will it suddenly change the world? To some degree yes, but it must continue for a few generations before it gets bled out… just like prejudice is slowly being bled from the veins of America. Their children of today must grow up hearing new words from their leaders… and their current leaders they listen to are religious leaders… get them to change their hearts and the masses will follow them.
January 27th, 2007 at 3:12 pm#53…G.Gerald…you made your points well and clear….let me just add one more thing..I believe the war in Iraq among Shiate,Sunnis&Kurds, while it looks religious on the surface..it is reallya power grab game among these groups.Every group wants a bigger share or piece of the Iraqi Pie left after Saddam’s regime collapsed. Even the shiate themselves they have now war between major factions with regard who really represents the Shiate..between Al Hakeen and Al-Sader…If we begin to underdstand this we are closer to find a solution..but if just think it is just a religious war..we might not be able to solve the problem in Iraq….the closer we find a formula of power sharing..the faster the problems we have in Iraq will be solved…
January 27th, 2007 at 3:47 pmGerald Gibson.
I think I understand your point. Of course, Islam just as Catholic religions are taught as peace religions. If Christianity is taken as what Christ preached then all Christians would abhor war, no matter what. You and I see that that is not the case. In fact most of those that cheer when a cluster bombs explodes are called themselves christians. Sad.
I agree with you that people would somehow change their POV about this conflict if religious leaders started preaching peace. In fact, John Paul II was against the war, that didnt change Bush, of course. Everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. I agree with you, and I wasnt attacking your statement, but it seems to me that it falls short. Wars are not going to be over unless there is dignity, respect and the rights of money and investors dont thread over rights of people. The solution is not religion. The solution is distribution of wealth, strenghtening social services, health services, education, environment-friendly technology. Trolls like MA, Exley, michael, for example are not evil people, they are just afraid and misled on purpose by the people who make wars, who benefit from them.
My objection to your statement, although its a good idea and I share it cuz I cant make everyone an atheist like myself, is that the vast majority of people obeys religious dogmas so far they can stand it. If I am 17 and a girl opens her legs in front of me, it doesnt matter that religion tells me not to fornicate, the most probable thing is that I end up having sex. Religion is a mask, I think. Nobody really believes in religion deep inside.
January 27th, 2007 at 3:48 pmMaybe the people of the world can’t get along any better than some of the bloggers on this site. Everyone wants to be heard and offer thier wisdom- but, no one wants to listen or try to understand. -Too many cooks in the kitchen.
January 27th, 2007 at 3:57 pmMaybe the people of the world can’t get along any better than some of the bloggers on this site. Everyone wants to be heard and offer thier wisdom- but, no one wants to listen or try to understand. -Too many cooks in the kitchen.
Comment by Liberal in New Mexico
I disagree. Peoples memories in their brains are altered by reading this stuff. It has an effect whether they want it to or not. I know the effect of some things people have said on this site has changed my mind…both the regulars and even a troll or two… or at least lead me to go read more and that eventually changed my mind.
January 27th, 2007 at 4:15 pmor at least lead me to go read more and that eventually changed my mind.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr
Of course, thats the whole point of discussing. I dont know that kind of liberal is that liberal in New Mexico, becuz the whole point of a blog is to express your opinion and try to support them with facts about issues. At least, Im not “offering” anything to anyone. This is not some trade class. And I am sure that Im not wise.
January 27th, 2007 at 4:39 pmAnd I am sure that Im not wise.
Comment by Juan C — January 27, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
oh come on, now… you, me and everybody else here knows better…
butting in, i know, but had to say it…
January 27th, 2007 at 4:43 pmComment by Juan C
Agree about everything you listed as “the actual cures” (distribution of wealth, strenghtening social services, health services, education, environment-friendly technology). These are for sure what signifies a peaceful and stable society.
Try imagining yourself standing in front of a bunch or Amish people and trying to explain to them the virtues of your point of view (distribution of wealth, strenghtening social services, health services, education, environment-friendly technology)… They are inclined to immediately not take you very seriously at least until they get back to their homes and church meetings and talk about and hear from their leaders what they think. And if their religious leaders tell them that accepting these things is being bought off …. turning their backs on god for gold…. The Amish would tell you they dont want your strengthening social services…
It is not about religion… it is about language and the human mind. There is a wall that is up around the muslims sects. It is like the Berlin Wall. It is unneccessary as proven by todays Christianity…but it is very real none the less. This wall is the source of their prejudice and hatred for outside muslim sects, outside religions, and outsiders in general.
I just grew up in the christian right in this country and I think that to affect people like that with words instead of war you should “interface” with their existing system and influence it in their own “language”.
You can try to buy them off with a peaceful and modern society (distribution of wealth, strenghtening social services, health services, education, environment-friendly technology) but they wont accept it if there is a social stigma to doing so.
If this civil war in Iraq really is going to spread then I dont think distribution of wealth is going to stop it… it will end up being shiite and sunni… There is also a longer range effect as well because there are problems beyond Iraq. Iran in particular and their tensions with Saudi Arabia. Taking away peoples excuses for war should lead to less of it.
January 27th, 2007 at 4:45 pmAnd I am sure that Im not wise.
Comment by Juan C
**snort**
Juan, I agree with katy @ 59.
January 27th, 2007 at 4:51 pmMy point precisely: You’re disagreeing with my points and I’m agreeing with yours. You are quick to decide that I am being critical of you personally when what I am trying to say is that there are many, many viewpoints and everyone is so busy putting forth thier point that they miss the validity of the counterpoint. Sorry to interupt you-
January 27th, 2007 at 4:54 pmYup! The white flag party!
Comment by michael — January 27, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
Michael is from the white robe & hood party. He has revealed himself to be a racist- therefore a scum like that dose not even have the right to ask questions let alone expect answers.
January 27th, 2007 at 5:12 pm“why his wife Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao does not use his last name”
What does that have to do with anything?
January 27th, 2007 at 5:16 pmnew thread about the DC protests!
January 27th, 2007 at 5:22 pmYay!
Sorry to interupt you-
Comment by Liberal in New Mexico
Lib in NM, if you are responding to Gibson Jr @ 57, I think you’re both saying essentially the same thing, just from different viewpoints. It’s easy for misunderstandings to occur when dealing only with the written word.
January 27th, 2007 at 5:25 pm“If you cannot convince the people why we morally should be doing a war”
We don’t decide to fight a war based on morals we fight wars based on dangers to our peoples. Muslims have declared war on us 35 years ago. They have been killing American citizens for the same amount of time. But you people think that we can negotiate with them. It doesn’t work! If we pull our troops out now the oil fields of Iraq will be taken over and controlled by the radicals in Iran. Terrorists will use this against the West. If you think you see killings going on now, wait until that happens. I know it’s impossible for you liberals to be able to imagine what will happen if we listen to you. You are so much more interested in seeing this President fail than you are in defeating world wide terrorism. Shame!
January 27th, 2007 at 5:26 pmThanks, true!
January 27th, 2007 at 5:27 pmIf this civil war in Iraq really is going to spread then I dont think distribution of wealth is going to stop it… it will end up being shiite and sunni…
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr
I know that what I listed are not immediate solutions for the conflict between Shiites and Sunnis. They will bomb each other all the way up … unless their religious leaders come to realise that that, in the long time, wont make profits. Religious leaders are looking for power in Iraq, right now. They will use religion to put dynamite on young kids to achieve their terror goals. These religious leaders are using the younger, ignorant ones for their own benefit. Just like Bush and the national extremist US junta is using american kids to achieve their own goals. That is of no difference. What I am saying is that, no matter what, people will realise that following these leaders are not good for them: in the US and in Iraq. Palestinians and jewish kids were in Davos promoting actions for a long lasting piece. They are coming to realise that their leaders are doing nothing to benefit the people.
Your amish example is like the african natives. What if you want to spread your knowledge, technology, culture, etc to those people and they dont want anything from you? Well, leave them alone. Sometime a young one will start asking questions, thats human nature, about why are people doing that and they will embrace other culture, just like we do when we read something new or go to a new place. Maybe Im a little disperse. This should be discussed with a nice coffee or a beer. The keyboard doesnt help too much. :)
January 27th, 2007 at 5:35 pmWe don’t decide to fight a war based on morals we fight wars based on dangers to our peoples.
Comment by michael
So why are we in IRAQ?
Piss-soaked troll.
January 27th, 2007 at 5:35 pmZoo and katy:
you, me and everybody else here knows better…
Comment by katy
You both know better. For sure. You have more experience. You are wise. :)
January 27th, 2007 at 5:42 pmIn non-western cultures, elders (and, please, do not offend) are venerated for their wisdom. We have lost this veneration. I think its sad.
Thanks, Juan.
**bones creaking**
Heh. :-D
January 27th, 2007 at 5:44 pmHahahahahaha!
That’s funny, Juan!
January 27th, 2007 at 5:46 pmmichael, your fear and anger is pathetic. Calm down, take a deep breath and start arguing like a grown up. You are describing the world like a Play Station game.
January 27th, 2007 at 5:50 pm**bones creaking**
Comment by Zooey
I really dont believe that. Must be the old door or something. :)
That’s funny, Juan!
Comment by trueblue
Well, you are wiser than me, true. :)
No, seriously, this is another stigma against old people. In this society, once you pass 30, you are a museum collection. Why is that? Cuz you cant drive fast? Cuz you cant party with friends? What have we done to believe this crap about age? Ok, Im derailing this thread…again.
January 27th, 2007 at 5:54 pmComment by michael:
“you are so much more interested in seeing this pResident fail than you are in defeating world wide terrorism…”
Rather that we are weary of the failures of the current pResident to accomplish anything positive in our nation, or the world.
January 27th, 2007 at 5:58 pmHis perpetual failings have made the U.S. less secure, more broke, and morally suspect.
Terrorism can never be defeated by force of arms. It can only be eliminated by removing the exploitation, occupation, and brutality which gives rise to it.
Besides, the Iraq invasion was not about terrorism to begin with. It is about oil.
Juan, you’re the greatest guy EVER! You’re right, I shouldn’t say things like that, since my bones do not creak.
Just so you know, Juan. I drive REALLY fast. :)
January 27th, 2007 at 6:04 pmIt’s a side track I’m more than happy to veer off onto, Juan!
January 27th, 2007 at 6:05 pmJust came back today from the annual wildland firefighter sign up at the high school, I’m a geezer of 52 who runs around swatting sparks with 20 somethings, they snicker at me until about the second time I have to wait on the ridge top for them to catch up………..
Raven,
Well said, and so true.
It was ALL ABOUT THE OIL.
January 27th, 2007 at 6:05 pmJuan,
January 27th, 2007 at 6:14 pmYou know better.
true!!!
Accept the compliment! Oy….
January 27th, 2007 at 6:28 pmOk, too many compliments. (but thanks…)
January 27th, 2007 at 6:30 pmAccept the compliment! Oy….
Comment by Zooey
Yeah, I guess she got mad. :[
January 27th, 2007 at 6:31 pmYeah, I guess she got mad. :[
Comment by Juan C
I’ll kick her ass, if she did. :P
January 27th, 2007 at 6:34 pm“Just like Bush and the national extremist US junta is using american kids to achieve their own goals”
Juan, what goals might you be referring to?
January 27th, 2007 at 6:41 pm“So why are we in IRAQ?”
I expect questions like this from liberals! I explained to you above. Muslims have been killing Americans for decades. A lot of the dead were military. Maybe that explains why you don’t care. Until we find an alternative for oil, which will not happen in our lifetime, someone needs to protect the flow of oil to the rest of the world. I know this is hard for you to understand or maybe is it the blinders you are wearing?
January 27th, 2007 at 6:46 pm“scum like that dose not even have the right to ask questions”
A child’s way of admitting he can’t answer the question?
January 27th, 2007 at 6:50 pm“michael, your fear and anger is pathetic. Calm down, take a deep breath and start arguing like a grown up”
Pathetic? 6,000 Americans have been killed by these muslims before we set foot in Iraq! Do you really think they plan on stopping there? Russia is selling missiles to Iran! Iran want to blow Israel of the face of the earth. If they get control of the oil in the region then it will turn into a true global war! You liberals remind me of the Jews in Europe back in the 1930’s. Oh, it will never happen!
January 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pmI explained to you above. Muslims have been killing Americans for decades.
Comment by michael
Not Iraqi Muslims, michael. We don’t just get to say, “Well, I’m tired of us getting killed by the mean old Muslims, let’s attack…..oh, I don’t know……let’s attack Iraq! Saddam has them almost back to the stone age, they’ll love us for attacking. Yeah….”
January 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pmUm, michael, I just responded to you and your insanity. Let’s pretend it didn’t happen, ok?
Note to self: Never, I mean NEVER, respond to piss-soaked trolls.
January 27th, 2007 at 7:00 pmMuslims have been killing Americans for decades.
And vice-versa; what is your point?
A lot of the dead were military. Maybe that explains why you don’t care.
That would be that liberal Reagan’s fault, would’t it? he’s the one who got 230+ marines killed in Beiruit.
I know this is hard for you to understand or maybe is it the blinders you are wearing?
Comment by michael
No, it’s your two-dimensional worldview that keeps you from understanding that it is religious extremists, not muslims, who have been attacking us. By your logic, we should have invaded Kuwait, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and most of the African continent because they are muslims, and “muslims have been killing Americans for decades.”
January 27th, 2007 at 7:01 pm“Rather that we are weary of the failures of the current pResident”
You know you would garner much more credibility if you would back up your statements with some facts?
“His perpetual failings have made the U.S. less secure, more broke”
Again, how about a fact or two to back up that statement.
“It can only be eliminated by removing the exploitation, occupation, and brutality which gives rise to it.”
By whom?
“It is about oil.”
And you can explain that?
January 27th, 2007 at 7:03 pmYou liberals remind me of the Jews in Europe back in the 1930’s. Oh, it will never happen!
Comment by michael
And we have a winner in the “fastest WW2 analogy to fall flat on it’s face” category!
Visit your local enlistment board for your prize, an all expense-paid-trip to Iraq!
January 27th, 2007 at 7:06 pm“His perpetual failings have made the U.S. less secure, more brokeâ€
Again, how about a fact or two to back up that statement.
Katrina.
Iraq.
Osama Bin Forgotten.
The list is long . . .
January 27th, 2007 at 7:07 pmYeah, I guess she got mad. :[
Comment by Juan C
I’ll kick her ass, if she did. :P
Comment by Zooey — January 27, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
Ok, fine, I’m a freakin’ genius!
January 27th, 2007 at 7:11 pm:P
“Not Iraqi Muslims, michael. We don’t just get to say, “Well, I’m tired of us getting killed by the mean old Muslims, let’s attack…..oh, I don’t know……let’s attack Iraq!”
Iraq gave us the opening we needed it invade that part of the world. Didn’t they snub their noses at your beloved U.N. after how many resolutions? We can argue endlessly about weather we should have invaded Iraq. The fact is, we did and now we have to complete the mission and bring the troops home ONLY when we feel it’s safe to do so. I suspect we will have a major military presence there for the next half century!
January 27th, 2007 at 7:16 pm“Note to self: Never, I mean NEVER, respond to piss-soaked trolls.”
Another admission to not being able to intelligently respond. That’s ok zooey, but I will continue to point out to others some of your half baked comments!
January 27th, 2007 at 7:19 pmI will continue to point out to others some of your half baked comments!
Comment by michael
You do that, baby. We’ll see who comes out smelling like a rose. Heh.
January 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pmNewsflash from Louisville, KY: Mitch McConnell is just as despicable as all you people out there think he is. He runs the GOP in Ky like a corrupt political boss of days gone by. At long last, people are waking up to this god awful excuse for a Senator.
Yes–McConnell is a Bush lap dog who has never ever questioned any aspect of Bush’s illegal war against Iraq. But watch out. CNN reported yesterday that Mitch may have tempered his rhetoric a bit. He now says that the Iraqis have one last chanceor else. Or else what, we don’t know.
We do know that Mitch took a look at his calendar and noticed that 2008 is coming up. He’s worried. We are invigorated in Kentucky and we will work day and night to send him back home. All help will be appreciated. Thanks.
January 27th, 2007 at 8:15 pmIn non-western cultures, elders (and, please, do not offend) are venerated for their wisdom. …
Comment by Juan C — January 27, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
EHHHHH??? wha’s that? ’somebody say somethin’? eh???
January 27th, 2007 at 9:50 pmUntil we find an alternative for oil, which will not happen in our lifetime
Comment by michael — January 27, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
see, michael - that’s one of the things that pisses us liberals off …
that “alternative for oil” was called for over 30 years ago - way before you were even born… and you know why that alternative was quashed and discarded and basically forgotten??? because of the LIES and MANIPULATION by the corporate run government financed by the big oil thieves and war profiteering criminals…
now get real and get with it… there’s not much time to clean up this mess.
January 27th, 2007 at 10:03 pm…
“Visit your local enlistment board for your prize, an all expense-paid-trip to Iraq!”
Bar, I happen to be a veteran of the U.S. Navy. You?
January 27th, 2007 at 10:22 pmWell then Mickey, you should be eager to go kill some more, eh? What’s stopping YOU, PUSSY.
January 27th, 2007 at 10:26 pmBar, I happen to be a veteran of the U.S. Navy. You?
Comment by michael — January 27, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
A proud tax-paying citizen for the past forty years. Why? Asking for another “supplemental” military expenditure from my SSI?
January 27th, 2007 at 10:34 pmComment by michael
And I’m the grandfather of a current enlistee. Your point? I’m not the one advocating using our military like “the world’s policeman” for the next half century. How far the banner of conservatism has fallen in the last decade. Sad, really sad.
January 27th, 2007 at 10:38 pmHello!! This column is about Mitch; the DO NOTHING REPUBLICAN from KY. His stint in Congress consists of favors to donors and blind allegiance to Bu$h’s disastrous policies. Not to mention he hasn’t in all of his years of public service improved the state he represents.
January 27th, 2007 at 11:41 pm“How far the banner of conservatism has fallen in the last decade. Sad, really sad”
First of all, nobody is advocating war, but if one is necessary, we better be prepared to battle or lose our way of life. I joined the Navy knowing that there was a real threat of me seeing action. I didn’t. I was lucky. The point I’m making is WE joined knowing that we might have to step up to the plate and execute the training the military and the American people invested in us to do the dirty work.
““the world’s policeman†for the next half century”
Would you want to live in a world where there was no one willing to confront Facism, Nazism, Communism, or Terrorism? Should we be willing to follow the lead of France, Germany, Russia? The terrorists have tentacles across the globe. They can hit us anytime they want. They’ve already demonstrated that. Anywhere in the world! And it will happen again! And we don’t even know who they are. The liberals think that if we are nice to them this will all go away. It won’t, and your grandson knows this. I hope you are proud of him, because some of us are.
January 28th, 2007 at 12:09 am“scum like that dose not even have the right to ask questionsâ€
A child’s way of admitting he can’t answer the question?
Comment by michael — January 27, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
If you all want to converse with a racist go for it. Michael is a low life scum bag racist and should not be debated. It would be like talking to Hitler or David Duke. BTW michale by reading your posts I know that your a coward just like jason & IRI-big talk but $hit in your pants if confronted.
January 28th, 2007 at 12:26 amThe point I’m making is WE joined knowing that we might have to step up to the plate and execute the training the military and the American people invested in us to do the dirty work.
Comment by michael — January 28, 2007 @ 12:09 am
Here is a post by a real moron- just read it in his own words. He is a racist and a lying piece of $hit. TP has had some real low life trolls post here but this one takes the cake.
January 28th, 2007 at 12:57 amJoefriday, great debating skills did you attend public schools? If you disagree with something I said, say why? Are you so void of debating skills that you have to resort to name calling? Can’t wait for your response!
January 28th, 2007 at 12:58 am“He is a racist and a lying piece of $hit”
Joe, you keep digging a bigger hole, now show everybody how smart you are by backing up your claim that I am a racist and a lying piece of …..well you know what I mean?
“TP has had some real low life trolls post here but this one takes the cake.”
And maybe, with your public school education, you can explain why I am a low life troll? Can’t wait to hear your answer!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 28th, 2007 at 1:04 am“TP has had some real low life trolls post here but this one takes the cake.”
Want to go one on one with me so we all can see what a grip you have on current events?
January 28th, 2007 at 1:14 ammichael = dipshit
January 28th, 2007 at 3:05 amYes Citizen Pain #107, This post is about MITCH MCCONNELL. Save other comments for other posts. Watch everything Mitch says in the next few days because he is the top GOP Senator. If he begins to back off from his full support for Bush, this is VERY significant. I’ve already said that McConnell has no scruples and that he is one of the nastiest politicans ever, but he does own a calendar and he is looking at 2008. He wants to save his own skin.
January 28th, 2007 at 9:06 amWatch McConnell in the next few days for clues about what the GOP will do with Bush and his fiasco in Iraq.
“If you cannot convince the people why we morally should be doing a warâ€
We don’t decide to fight a war based on morals we fight wars based on dangers to our peoples. Muslims have declared war on us 35 years ago. They have been killing American citizens for the same amount of time. But you people think that we can negotiate with them. It doesn’t work! If we pull our troops out now the oil fields of Iraq will be taken over and controlled by the radicals in Iran. Terrorists will use this against the West. If you think you see killings going on now, wait until that happens. I know it’s impossible for you liberals to be able to imagine what will happen if we listen to you. You are so much more interested in seeing this President fail than you are in defeating world wide terrorism. Shame!
Comment by michael
Like most of your right wing members you are not very well read.
Go pick up a book called “The Art of War” or ask a military officer what “The Art of War” is and what it says. You are dead wrong. ALL wars are moral wars for the people. We do not go wage war on all of Africa because some African American joins a gang and kills someone. People have PERSPECTIVE and that means they weigh how much force to use and against whom. For The People to give up their lives they MORALLY must justify it in their heads. VERY rarely is a country about to be over run and so has no choice but to fight in out right self-defense. As The Art of War makes clear a leader that does not paint a moral picture for his people that they can believe in they will not support him. They will not offer up their lives and treasure for the cause.
Your ignorance defines you.
January 28th, 2007 at 2:00 pm