Coburn: Minimum wage increase will hurt workers.
By on Feb 2nd, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Coburn: Minimum wage increase will hurt workers.
An increase in the minimum wage is “unfair to workers and, in many cases, it will be harmful to the very people it is supposedly designed to help,” according to Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK). See the real facts here. (HT: Bob Geiger)
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Why not argue something similarly stupid like “lower taxes will hurt millionaires?”
February 2nd, 2007 at 3:55 pmsooooo, has senator coburn declined the pay increases that he and his cronies vote themselves.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:00 pmEating can make you hungry.
Doing exercise can make you gain weight.
Getting an education can make you stupid.
Falling into a swimming pool can cause you to be all dry.
See, I can say outrageously stupid sh!t also.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:00 pmAn increase in stupidity will be harmful to the Senator from OK. What an AssHat
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:01 pmThat’s not even the right Republican talking point. They’re supposed to add the bit about small businesses laying off workers. They’re off their game.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:04 pmI bet he didn’t say that about HIS attempted pay raise???
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:06 pmYeah, the last damn thing anyone needs, especially those waaay below the poverty line is more money.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:10 pmSo his argument is that it’s better to allow people to remain on the “dole,” rather than being in a position where they could perhaps begin to dig themselves out of a dependent position? As I recall, this is one of the Republicans that voted to cut these family assistance programs substantially.
So this huge raise of $2.00 (over a period of TWO years) necessitates 8.4 billion in tax breaks for “small business. Why isn’t he hollering about THAT?
Oh yes…it’s because these people’s ability to remain in power is based on the precept that poor people get poorer, while rich people get richer.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:12 pmSenator Coburn is right, wage increases hurt people, so we don’t want to hurt him by giving him a wage increase.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:20 pmI have always been of the opinion that congress, the senate, and the white house should get minimum wage. It might help encourage honest people to run.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:25 pmYeah, whenever I worked a crap job for minimum wage, when I first started out, I always hated it when I got extra money.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:30 pmPissed me off…
How did you get the extra money?
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:37 pmWhat about the numerous wage increases that you gave yourself these past few years? That, plus the very excellent healthcare package you posess make you one of the hightest paid whores in the public service profession, does it not?
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:42 pmYou are an elitist assh*le, so what do you care. You got yours, so fu*k everybody else.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:47 pmIf a puny minimum wage increase hurts workers, I can’t imagine how deadly a CEO’s $400k pension could be?
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:48 pmLOL like a programmed bot, Kevin shows up to bash the minimum wage. Kevin please for the love of god, read up on the labor movement.
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:49 pmHow did you get the extra money?
Comment by Kevin
I was being sarcastic, Kevin.
This is Idaho, I got extra money when the child support made it to the mailbox. And later, I gave up my two jobs and got a different job that paid a little more money. Then I could actually spend time with my children. Is that ok with you? Do I have the “Kevin Seal of Approval?”
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:54 pmYou are an elitist assh*le, so what do you care. You got yours, so fu*k everybody else.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — February 2, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Man, every time I get a pay check I pop a blood vessel. Why do my bosses keep hurting me like this? Why do they keep paying me a decent wage?
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:55 pmCoburn is the weirdo who cried at SCOTUS hearings, correct?
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:04 pmI’m sure you don’t need my approval. I just wanted to see if you needed the government to help you with that. You didn’t. Great. The system works.
Thanks for proving my point.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:07 pmI just wanted to see if you needed the government to help you with that. You didn’t. Great. The system works.
Thanks for proving my point.
Comment by Kevin
No Kevin, I did not prove your point. I was lucky, I’m not disabled, my mind works well, I had no addiction problems, I had family who were willing to help out with a nice dinner or two, and I had an ex who paid his child support pretty much on time. If any one of those things supports had been knocked out from under me, I would have needed govt help, and I would have accepted it gratefully because my children needed to eat and have a roof over their heads. I saw women everyday in very similar situations as me, who didn’t have the social support I did, and it was bad news. I haven’t forgotten those women.
The system does not work, Kevin. Get your nose out of the air, and take a look around, you might just notice someone who needs help.
I don’t know if you believe in the bible or not, I don’t, but there is great wisdom in some of those words. In Genesis, Cain asks god, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Everything I’ve read after that tells me the answer is YES.
Get over yourself.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:18 pmComment by Kevin — February 2, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
Ah, proof by example, the trap that every 10th grade geometry student falls into.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:19 pmThis issue is like a religion for conservatives. No amount of data will change their opinion. They react with the same outdated and discredited arguments every time this comes up. If they don’t have a cogent argument, they react with derision or by setting up strawmen. Kevin has always been a great example of this particular form of mental illness.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:21 pmZooey, I would bet money that Kevin does indeed beleive in the bible. It’s just that he has found ways to ignore some of its most important messages.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:22 pmWasn’t robert making this very same absurd argument yesterday?
If people getting more money is actually hurting them, then we really need to get relief to the super rich by taking away their loopholes, ending their tax breaks, and putting them in the 85% tax bracket!
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:43 pmWhat else can we expect from some braindead idiot from Oklahoma.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:47 pmAt long last Oklahoma, have you no shame.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:54 pmlook at that, another elitist.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:55 pmYeah right Coburn. Us hard working taxpayers are always against getting a pay raise you batty bastard.
Hmm…More money is always a bad, bad idea for a worker
Hmm…More money is always a good, good idea for an employer
Bullshit right off of the Oklahoma plains. Still steaming.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:00 pmOklahoma. It’s the New Kansas!
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:11 pmDo you know what an elitist is? look it up dumb fu*k.
While you think that teenagers can make more money just by squinting really hard and it magically appearing on their paycheck, I know that elitist business owners fu*k their employees on a daily basis and would pay them $1.00 a day given the chance, hence the need for a federally mandated minimum wage to keep the elitist assh*les like you from running this country into the ground.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:11 pm“They’re supposed to add the bit about small businesses laying off workers”
And you don’t think that this will happen?
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:22 pm“While you think that teenagers can make more money just by squinting really hard and it magically appearing on their paycheck”
No, he said by working hard and proving to their employer that they are worth it!
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:24 pm“At long last Oklahoma, have you no shame”
Possibly not but at least he has a brain and understands the very negative effects that raising the minimum wage could bring!
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:27 pmMicheal, you have had everything handed to you on a silver platter, private schools k-12, and an expensive college in Malibu. You know nothing about life beyond that. Please be silent on issues you know nothing about.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:32 pmWasn’t robert making this very same absurd argument yesterday?
Comment by unbelievable
No. Robert simply had a question as to whether or not the increase would affect their tax bracket.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:45 pm“Micheal, you have had everything handed to you on a silver platter”
You call growing up in Hell’s Kitchen, having everything handed to me on a silver platter?
“an expensive college in Malibu”
I attended Pepperdine University at night while I worked full time during the day. I did this after I got married and paid every penny MYSELF!
“Please be silent on issues you know nothing about”
As a matter of fact I paid very close attention to all the subjects discussed in all my economics classes and I can honestly tell you that it is you who lacks adequate knowledge on this subject!
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:46 pmSpudge…
Never DEBATE and IDIOT, because they have no meaningful comment that could be remotely plausible, and so they stick to the “I know I am, but what are you” game…
The fact is, an IDIOT made and IDIOTIC comment based on IGNORANT thoughts without any facts to the contrary!
For him to justify defending that, ONLY PROVES that they come from the same mole!!! Someone smell fertilizer?
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:47 pmMichael grew up in Hell’s Kitchen?
No wonder you worship a deciver and liar! Glad to see that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree!
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:49 pmLike I said, it’s like a religion for them. Michael, can you show me one example of raising minimum wages leading to more unemployment? Just one. No? But you still believe the dogma. It’s like religion.
Funny, but every time someone here writes that Bush lied, a Bush cultist rushes to his keyboard and quickly types, “evidence? links?” Ask the same cultist to come up with any evidence that raising the min. wage raises unemployment — nothing.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:51 pmMichael: “I attended Pepperdine University…”
OK, now I get it. You’re a brainwashed clone of Kenneth Starr. You’re dripping with right wing dogma. You can’t help yourself.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:52 pmUMM sure you did Micheal, sorta like how Bill O’Rielly grew up in some “working class” neighborhood. Please you already stated you went to private school, and I doubt if your parents lived in Hell’s Kitchen they could have afforded private school. You are a fool if you think I won’t remember what you said just a few days ago. You are woefully unprepared.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:56 pm“Never DEBATE and IDIOT, because they have no meaningful comment that could be remotely plausible, and so they stick to the “I know I am, but what are you†game…
The fact is, an IDIOT made and IDIOTIC comment based on IGNORANT thoughts without any facts to the contrary!
For him to justify defending that, ONLY PROVES that they come from the same mole!!! Someone smell fertilizer?”
Do you realize you just said NOTHING?
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:57 pmI’ve heard that a number of affluent small businesspeople have already died, and that another large number are on life support. The sky has already fallen on the East Coast, and by next week, America as we once knew it will have vanished forever. Hope all you communists are happy now!
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:58 pmO! Woe is us, waah wahh, etc…..
If you support suppressing the minimum wage (or obolishing it, like my silly Senator) in order to decrease unemployment, aren’t you proposing Government interference in the Free Market in order to boost employment of non-essential labor – JUST LIKE A LIBERAL?
“If the shoe fits, buy a pair in every color.”
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:00 pm“but every time someone here writes that Bush lied, a Bush cultist rushes to his keyboard and quickly types, “evidence? links?†Ask the same cultist to come up with any evidence that raising the min. wage raises unemployment”
I wouldn’t call it a Bush cultist; I would call it a truth seeker. If you don’t think that raising the minimum wage is going to result in the elimination of some entry level jobs then you need to go to some college (not Pepperdine, you’re not smart enough to get in) to enroll in Economics 101!
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:02 pmNo. Robert simply had a question as to whether or not the increase would affect their tax bracket.
Comment by Zooey — February 2, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
He might have phrased it as a question, but it was a passive lead into the same “giving them a raise will harm them” mentality.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:22 pmComment by michael — February 2, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
And don’t forget higher prices.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:22 pmMichael, I hate to break it to you, but Pepperdine is not that hard to get in to. Where I went to college is about 100 times harder to get in (hint: it’s about 500 miles north of Pepperdine.) And, I minored in economics so please, get over yourself.
But, back to my original challenge: can you show me any example in the long history of our minimum wage that raising it resulted in a loss of entry-level or any jobs whatsoever. You’re the Pepperdine guy. Didn’t you learn anything from Kenneth Starr? I’m sure you have the research skills to find any example which will support your dogma. Let’s have it. I’m not talking about chapter x in your micro text. I’m talking about the real world. You keep claiming something as if it’s gospel. If that something is so airtight, there must be an example. Does that make any sense to you at all?
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:22 pmOK, Kevin, same for you. Can you provide any example of prices rising as a result of a raise in the minimum wage? Let’s have it.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:23 pmIf you raise the cost of doing business, you have to make up that cost somehow. No need to send a link for that. It was in the economics 101.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:29 pmMichael, you think I should use the word “truth seeker” rather than “Bush cultist?”
So, you think the average Bush supporter is in search of truth? Yikes. That kind of cognitive dissonance must be painful, even for a Pepperdine grad. You have my sympathy.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:30 pmKevin: “No need to send a link for that. It was in the economics 101.”
OK, I’ll take that as an admission that you can’t find any real world examples of prices rising as a result of a raise in the min. wage. You do know that we’ve been keeping records on this kind of stuff since the 30’s right?
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:32 pmIf you’re going to drop a name, why in the hell would you choose Pepperdine? I mean yeah, its an ok school, but still, Pepperdine? Also, if you learned anything in Econ 101, please let it be how rarely economic theory holds true in the real world.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:32 pmOk. Please explain. If You own a business and you have to pay your employees more, you don’t cut any of them loose. You keep your prices the same. How do you maintain a profit?
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:37 pm“Michael, I hate to break it to you, but Pepperdine is not that hard to get in to”
Never said it was but I doubt you could make it.
“can you show me any example in the long history of our minimum wage that raising it resulted in a loss of entry-level or any jobs whatsoever”
Don’t keep track of eliminating jobs like stock boy’s dishwasher’s or cleaning lady’s by raising the minimum wage ,do you keep track of just the reverse? It’s pretty common sense but I’m sure you can show us something that you learned in that fabled school you attended 500 miles north of mine that will point out just the opposite?
“Didn’t you learn anything from Kenneth Starr”
First off I attended Pepperdine long before Starr. And I am very proud that he is there!
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:38 pmAnd don’t forget higher prices.
Comment by Kevin
Right Kevin, because prices certainly haven’t gone up since the last time minimum wages were raised.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:45 pmHe might have phrased it as a question, but it was a passive lead into the same “giving them a raise will harm them†mentality.
Comment by unbelievable
I didn’t get that impression.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:47 pmMichael, what I learned is that economic theory rarely works in the real world like it’s described in textbooks. But, let me help you out here. The last time the min. wage was raised in the mid-90’s, I would think that you would see a minimal rise in fast food prices. And, yes, our government keeps track of the reverse. The number of minimum wage jobs increased all through the 90’s in spite of two min. wage raises. You can find this data at the OMB government site.
But, really now. You are the one who made the original statement that raises in min. wage create more unemployment. Since you made the statement, shouldn’t you be the one who provides the evidence? And, just so you know. I remember reading that in my economic text as well. All I’m trying to say is that it never has happened in the real world.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:47 pmKevin, I’ve posted this to you before. Why do you pretend that you’ve never heard this. I DO run a business. It’s a small business. I have 8 employees, two of which work at minimum wage. That wage is more than the national anyway, but the last time it was raised, it had absolutely no effect on our business.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:49 pmExxon must be in extreme pain with all the record hurt
February 2nd, 2007 at 9:20 pmConservatives have no issue with bloated CEO salaries, golden parachutes, and ambiguous private contracts in Iraq and elsewhere. Yet, a $2 raise for the lowest paid workers seems to them as the end of the world.
Conservatives have no shame or decency.
February 2nd, 2007 at 9:29 pmOne reason to oppose the minimum wage increase is on principle. Fundamentally supply and demand determine wages and prices. By definition a minimum wage is interference in the market by the federal government, an entity not noted for its efficiency or good judgment. What basis is there for demanding they be paid at a rate higher than their employers willingly provide? There’s only one: charity. And while charity is good, the government is not good at it.
Another is personal responsibility. Every single American knows that a life lived at the minimum wage level is one on the very edge of poverty and/or disaster. Opportunities abound to be educated, formally or otherwise in this country. Yet too many people ignore their chances because they don’t care and aren’t willing to make short-term sacrifices for mid-term gains. Why should they try if there is no consequence for failure?
A third reason, and my personal favorite, for opposing the minumum wage is that it amounts to little more than an indirect tax. Businesses are not going to lower their profit margins to provide the higher wage. Neither will they increase their margins – competition will not allow this. Those businesses that can will charge you and I increased prices. Those that can’t will cut staff, resulting in increased public assistance.
As inarticulate as Coburn’s message was, he is correct, I think, to say, “Free markets, and the American ideals of entrepreneurship and hard work, are far better equipped at setting and raising wages than politicians in Washington…American families deserve an economy in which they can prosper, not more counterfeit compassion from Washingtonâ€.
Few things make for a robust economy like the government simply staying out of the way.
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:21 pmI am in favor of the minimum wage increase but there is a way that a limited few are hurt by the raise. When you get a $2.00 raise it sometimes does not make up for the lose of food stamps and medical assistance as your total income exceeds the qualifying income level of those two programs. If the ceilings on these types of programs is not raised at the same time as the raise it can eliminate any good that was meant to happen.
However, even knowing that I favor the raise because it helps more people than it hurts. There is also always the hope that someone will do something about a Universal health care program that is not connected to your income level.
I am sure this is not what the pug is thinking about though. Their kind do not care about my kind.
February 3rd, 2007 at 12:26 amThe troll distracts the thread about helping people now stuck at $5.15 an hour to proclaim a truth he didn’t mean to admit:
“Businesses are not going to lower their profit margins to provide the higher wage.”
Trnslated: those who run businesses and the troll care more about profits than they do people. BIG NEWS FLASH!
NOT!
That has been the way of it with businesses since the Depression, and it has only gotten worse. Those “businesses” have become multinational, unaccountable conglomerates, and the overpaid CEO’s are much more interested in profits than in people.
We the people, i.e. through our elected government, needed to intervene to say “no” to CEO greed. Looks like we will do that, but $7.25 in two years is not much better than $5.15 because the raise in the minimum has come so late. Sad.
February 3rd, 2007 at 2:41 amFew things make for a robust economy like the government simply staying out of the way.
Comment by marc — February 2, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
Yeah this type of wonderful idea led to the great depression. Please for God’s sake read up in the history of the labor movement, trickle down economics, and the great depression.
February 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 amSince an increase in the minimum wage will hurt workers, I propose a decrease in the minimum wage, thereby helping the workers. No need to thank me, just doing my corporate duty and watching out for the best interests of my chattel.
February 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 amWhich is why, after previous decades of raises in the minimum wage (before the Republicans protected us from them), there are no restaurants in the United States.
Whoever thought this one up probably also gave us the “ban smoking indoors and there won’t be any restaurants of bars” argument. Which is why there are no restaurants or bars in California.
February 3rd, 2007 at 10:21 amSo your customer didn’t mind the price going up? If you didn’t raise the price, then what did you do to maintain a profit?
February 3rd, 2007 at 11:21 amSo, a bunch of minimum wage workers will now have more money to spend.
February 3rd, 2007 at 4:55 pmI wonder how that will affect businesses?
Senator Coburn is evidently not the sharpest knife in the drawer and should probably resist speaking to the press unless one of his back office strategist operatives gives him something intelligent to say. Coburn is no stranger to making stupid remarks. Coburn, a family physician once said this to say as a proponent of…you guessed it – breast implants:
“If you have them, you’re healthier than if you don’t. That is what the ultimate science shows. … In fact, there’s no science that shows that silicone breast implants are detrimental and, in fact, they make you healthier.
To the nice folks in the state of Oklahoma…a majority of you clearly need to take your finger off the snooze button. This guy is an absolute and utter embarrassment.
February 4th, 2007 at 1:49 amThe minimum wage isn’t a spur to work longer if you don’t have time to work longer. The minimum wage isn’t a spur to get a better education if you don’t have time to get an education.
I realize that people who’re against the minimum wage increase don’t hold that position because they have something against people who make the minimum wage, but I have a sort of weird question I’d like to ask people who are against the increase:
What is the minimum obligation an employer owes one of his full time employees? If an employee who, because of his work, doesn’t have the time to make money outside of his job, why doesn’t the employer have a responsibility to give the employee enough to meet his most basic needs? You work full time to make enough money- if the worker’s meeting the employer’s needs by working full time, why should it be ok if the employer doesn’t meet the worker’s needs?
Maybe a more basic question should be, “Can people survive in the US on the current minimum wage?†and/or “Do people working full time on the minimum wage have time to get an education to get a better paying job?”
February 4th, 2007 at 11:14 amIt seems that, globally, the way that supporters of both arguments are divided is proof that the proposed increase in minimum wage would appreciably benefit those who need it.
put simply, the wealthy lash out against it while the impoverished defend it. If the minimum wage increase fulfills its intended purpose, then there should be something of a leveling of social classes, and we all know that the affluent thoroughly enjoy the status quo.
February 4th, 2007 at 12:52 pmGreed is indeed the key word. I do not believe that Sen. Coburn voted against the min. wage increase because he recalled the grim forecast from his econ. text as Kevin did. Get real folks, this is about greed and about not caring for folks who aren’t doing so well financially. Don’t judge them for not sacrificing and becoming educated so they can get higher-paying jobs; without the folks who DO that work and do it well, those businesses would FOLD. Ideally the costs of paying those workers more SHOULD come from the top, but since we all know it won’t, I think I am ok with paying an extra nickel for my burger and coke. If it will mean $2 more an hour for someone trying to make an honest living, I’m all for it. I’ll pay an extra quarter if they’ll raise it by $4…the CEOs will have to deal with judgment day on their own.
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April 11th, 2008 at 4:13 am