‘Anti-Escalation’ Senators Vote For Escalation
Last night, Senate conservatives successfully blocked debate on a bipartisan anti-escalation resolution.
At least eight senators who claim to oppose sending more U.S. troops to Iraq voted the wrong way, supporting the conservative filibuster. They include Sen. John Warner (R-VA) — who actually introduced the anti-escalation resolution in question — and Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) — who has aggressively demanded that every U.S. senator take a position on Iraq.
Here’s a full list of the senators who voted to protect President Bush and block debate on Iraq, along with their public disapprovals of Bush’s escalation plan:
– Sen. John Warner (R-VA): “Sen. John Warner (R-VA) will introduce a resolution today ‘making clear that he does not support the President on increasing the troop levels in Iraq’ and calling escalation ‘a mistake,’.”
– Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE): “It’s Alice in Wonderland. … I’m absolutely opposed to sending any more troops to Iraq. It is folly.” (Cosponsored Warner resolution.)
– Sen. Gordon Smith (R-OR): “This is the president’s Hail Mary pass. … We are extending an ineffective tactic to further the status quo.” (Cosponsored Warner resolution.)
– Sen. John Sununu (R-NH): “Sen. John Sununu told CNN Tuesday he will not support President Bush’s plan to send an additional 21,000 U.S. troops to Iraq, although he hasn’t yet decided whether to back a Democratic resolution opposing the move.”
– Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME): “We should not place more American servicemen and women in harm’s way to instill a peace that the Iraqis are not willing to seek for themselves.” (Cosponsored Warner resolution.)
– Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS): “I do not believe that sending more troops to Iraq is the answer. … Iraq requires a political rather than a military solution.”
– Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA): “We’re all looking for a plan that will work. … The current plan is not working, and 21,500 additional troops — it’s a snowball in July. It’s not going to work.“
Notably, Sens. Norm Coleman (R-MN) and Susan Collins (R-ME), who say they oppose escalation, resisted partisan pressure and voted against the conservative filibuster.
As for Sen. Hagel, who said recently, “We need to put the Congress on record here” — he is now “on record,” in support of Bush’s escalation.
UPDATE: Commenters have noticed that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is listed as having opposed debate on Iraq. In fact, Reid changed his vote to “no” at the end of the vote simply as a procedural move so he could later move to reconsider the motion (i.e., revote) — a right reserved only for those voting with the majority.
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I told y’all about Hagel. Warner blocking his own bill?
Can someone explain this?
February 6th, 2007 at 12:21 pmIt really makes me wonder, what naked pictures does Karl Rove have of these people?
February 6th, 2007 at 12:22 pmF*ck ‘em all but 6.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:22 pmWe’ll use them as pallbearers for the Impeachment.
Add to your list Harry Reid, who according to the link also voted against closure. What is he thinking?
February 6th, 2007 at 12:23 pmHagel, Snowe, Smith and Warner: pure bullshit. Smith and Snowe run in blue states. They deserve a good whippin.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:23 pmWhy did Harry Reid vote Nay?
February 6th, 2007 at 12:24 pmyep - these people are too tied to their “base” (whatever that is)…
February 6th, 2007 at 12:26 pmand/or the blackmail evidence is really juicy… it boggles the mind…
…
Republican true colors. They still cling to that minute hope that Iraq will turn out dandy for them. They know they’ve tied themselves to the loser Bush and the war will be their downfall. They are only digging their hole deeper and waylaying the inevitable. THe problem is how many more will die while the Repub. try to save face?
February 6th, 2007 at 12:27 pmReid changed his vote to “no” at the end as a procedural move so he could later move to reconsider the motion (i.e., revote), which only those voting with the majority can do.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:28 pmIt sounds like Hagel, Warner, and the rest of the Repukes that ostensibly supported this resolution, only to vote it down, are just engaging in the typical Repuke grandstanding.
They can now point back and say “Of course I thought the war was a bad idea! Don’t you remember me pontificating on it back in 2007?”, secure in the knowledge that voters will pay more attention to their hot air than their actual voting record.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:28 pmi think it would be a good idea for TP to state the reason that REID voted NAY - it was explained to me last evening:
it was part of the rules, to be able to bring this back up…
someone, spell it out!
February 6th, 2007 at 12:29 pmBY VOTING AGAINST AN IRAQ DEBATE, SENATE REPUBLICANS VOTE IN FAVOR OF ESCALATION
On 2/5/07 only Sen. ME. Susan Collins* and Sen. MN Norm Coleman* Voted for Debate. The Rest of the 2008 R Senate Slate basically voted in favor of escalation by not allowing a DEBATE on a NON-BINDING ANTI-SURGE proposal.
AK Ted Stevens R Sr 2008
AL Jefferson Sessions R Jr 2008
CO Wayne Allard R Sr 2008
GA C. Saxby Chambliss R Sr 2008
ID Larry Craig R Sr 2008
KS Pat Roberts R Jr 2008
KY Mitch McConnell R Sr 2008
ME Susan Collins* R Jr 2008 Voted For Debate
MN Norm Coleman* R Jr 2008 Voted For Debate
MS Thad Cochran R Sr 2008
NC Elizabeth Dole R Sr 2008
NE Charles Hagel R Sr 2008
NH John Sununu R Jr 2008
NM Pete Domenici R Sr 2008
OK James Inhofe R Sr 2008
OR Gordon Harold Smith R Jr 2008
SC Lindsey Graham R Sr 2008
TN Lamar Alexander R Jr 2008
TX John Cornyn R Jr 2008
VA John Warner R Sr 2008
WY Michael Enzi R Jr 2008
The complete Senate vote on the Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Motion to Proceed to S. 470; A bill to express the sense of Congress on Iraq. can be found at this link
http://www.senate.gov/ legislative/ LIS/ roll_call_lists/ roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00044
To contact your Senator You may phone the U.S. Capitol Switchboard at (202) 224-3121. A switchboard operator will connect you directly with the Senate office you request
February 6th, 2007 at 12:30 pmhttp://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012302.php
has more
February 6th, 2007 at 12:30 pmok - thanks, nico
how about you add that to the thread copy above!
in BOLD print…
to repeat:
Reid changed his vote to “no†at the end as a procedural move so he could later move to reconsider the motion (i.e., revote), which only those voting with the majority can do.
Comment by Nico — February 6, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
February 6th, 2007 at 12:31 pm…
What’s in this friggin bill?? Americans are so fuc*&^% stupid. Of course in “08″ we’ll have long forgotten this and the repukes will be saying that the democrats didn’t support the troops in the field. And guess, people will say “yeah that’s right am voting for the repukes.” Dumb fuc*&^% voters.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:31 pmThink Progress, unfortunately, did a less than full retelling of the circumstances involving this vote. They are arguing over four amendments, and whether or not to have open debate on all four. One of the amendments, the Grigg Amendment, states that Congress has a responsibility to fund and support the President in any military action he wants to take, and will not be allowed to take action to stop him. Check out the Washington Post’s coverage, as well as Josh Marshall over at talkingpointsmemo.com for more balanced coverage of this situation.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:32 pmLieing bastards, all. But what did you expect, they are repuglicans–thy were born to lie.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:32 pmJust unbelievable, I am amazed by these people. What was said behind closed doors to bring this change on a vote where they have all been against escalation? I can’t wait to see what Olberman has to say. People, what is going on ? I am so perplexed by this that it makes u think there really is no choice in washington, and subsequently we have no choice.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:35 pmAmazing
TRY THESE TOLL FREE SWITCHBOARDD NUMBERS:
800.828-0498
800.459.1887
800.614.2803
866.340.2981
the operator will ask which office/member you want… be POLITE…
February 6th, 2007 at 12:35 pmI am disgusted beyond words. At this point, I personally think that anarchy is not a bad idea. The more time that goes by, the stronger I feel.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:36 pmOh yeah, the republican rubber-stampers not walking their talk. Another blood bath will be needed in 08.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:38 pmJust unbelievable, I am amazed by these people. What was said behind closed doors to bring this change on a vote where they have all been against escalation? I can’t wait to see what Olberman has to say. People, what is going on ? I am so perplexed by this that it makes u think there really is no choice in washington, and subsequently we have no choice.
Amazing
Comment by swede
Uh, I have said it before. There really is no difference between the two parties, neither seems to answer to the will of the people. Rather, they answer to the will of corporations and power. If we throw them all out, it will be only a matter of time before the corporations get to them too.
We have a broken system here folks. Days like today make me want to just arm up and fortify. What else can we do?
February 6th, 2007 at 12:41 pmTP:
Your article fails to mention that Sen Reid D-NV (Majority Leader) also voted for escalation.
It seems we democrats are following in the O’Reily footsteps point out the other guy and forget our own
February 6th, 2007 at 12:43 pmThere really is no difference between the two parties…
Comment by ForTruth — February 6, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
how can you really say and think this???
February 6th, 2007 at 12:46 pmlook at the votes! … party lines, mostly… how can you say that?!?
stop pushing right wing bullshit!
Do these Senators think the 2006 election was a fluke? It was a referendum on the war, IE ending it! I really hope these Senators don’t get too cozy in their plush offices, I have the strong feeling they’ll all be looking for new jobs in 2008, because last years tsunami will look like a small wave when measured against the one that will come next.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:47 pmThe few voices of reason will be squashed out by any means. The majority party of corporatism rules.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:47 pmKaty,
I am grinning at your response. I certainly am not trying to push anything. I have believed when push comes to shove, whats the real difference in the end result? Sure there are lots of good “talk”. But WTF are the Dems doing about all this, besides talking?
I do believe both parties are influences by the same stuff, power and wealth.
I was not trying to upset any tummys.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:50 pmrebel - see #s 9, 11, 14…
February 6th, 2007 at 12:50 pmpay attention…
Hey, Hagel: Can I interest you in an Italian loafer? Typical pandering bullshit….
February 6th, 2007 at 12:51 pmPlease read #16. I don’t know why this story was posted here the way it was. There is an explanation that TP isn’t providing. Stop jumping to conclusions and read the whole story over at talkingpointsmemo.com
February 6th, 2007 at 12:51 pmKaty and For truth
good to see the debate, people need to talk about this , left wing right wing whatever, but For truth has got to get you thinking, it has with me, the proof is in Mr Warner, out front for over 10 days against this and voted with his party, I know u said its Party lines, but is it really?
February 6th, 2007 at 12:52 pmtreason, multiple counts.
war profiteering, multiple counts
great our senate is so corrupt, eh? this is embarrassing how they flaunt their lack of concern for the people, the troops, the inhabitants of the countries they want to take over and rule with an iron democratic hand
joe stalin would be proud of everyone but Russ Feingold and Ron Wyden. But ole’ Joe was a fascist in red clothing
February 6th, 2007 at 12:52 pmSphincter Spector and Warrior Warner have been two of the biggest hypocrites since entering public service! They are the original “blues brothers” and act in tandem to actually obstruct the things they purport to encourage….case in point right here. They’re a sham and when one of them posture as though they have a conscience, the people had better be wary…..be very wary.
Sphincter Spector and Pretty Boy-cum-Warrior Warner are two of the biggest charlatans in Congress. And they go waaaaay back to JFK days - along with Bush #41 who was head of the CIA….the convenient coverup, etc. They’re part of the original Bush Crime Family Gang of Thugs.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:52 pmHere’s Warrior Warner’s commentary….”well….first I was for my own resolution/before I was against my own resolution…..and now that I’ve voted against myself, I am wondering who I really am????” Who’s on first, Warner?
February 6th, 2007 at 12:54 pmHere, I’ll post it for your so you don’t have to go to talkingpointsmemo.com http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012302.php:
The Republicans main aim here was to prevent a no-confidence vote in the senate on the president’s war policy. They threatened a filibuster for a while until they finally came up with a rationale for the filibuster. And what they came up with was this …
There were three resolutions in play today. The Warner-Levin anti-surge resolution. The McCain-Graham-Lieberman pro-surge resolution. Then there was a third resolution offered by Sen. Judd Gregg. The key is the Gregg resolution. All the Gregg resolution really said was that it’s the Commander-in-Chief’s duty to assign military missions and the Congress’s duty to fund them. (Constitutionally, it’s a ridiculous claim. But let’s set that aside for the moment.)
Now, here’s the rub. The Democrats wanted them all to go to a simple majority vote. The Republicans wanted each to go to a 60+ filibuster-breaking vote.
How do the two thresholds shape the debate?
If each goes to a simple majority vote, the anti-surge resolution wins, the pro-surge resolution loses and the Gregg amendment probably wins too. But the headline is the repudiation of the president. The Gregg amendment is an afterthought.
However, if each resolution goes to a 60 vote test, the thinking was that both surge resolutions (pro and con) would fail. And only the Gregg amendment would win.
So opposition to the president would lose and the only winning amendment would be one that gets the senate on the record saying that Congress is obligated to fund whatever missions the president chooses.
That’s what happened.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:59 pmSorry folks. I do have my days where I don’t think there is a damn bit of difference between the parties. And today is one of those days. Hey I will always support the Dems, but its in the back of my mind that all these suits answer to things that are not in the interest of the general population. I mean friken Kerry’s bloodline intersects with Bush’s if you look back far enough. They all come from the same bloodline, they are the American version of royalty. They will keep it in the “family”. Look at Clinton and GHWB, WTF is that about? They all have hands in the World Bank, which relys on the same bullshit to keep the wealthy, well, wealthy. All presidents except 2 have come from the same bloodline. Do the reasearch, its true.
Dem or Repub, is like asking how you like to take it up the butt. Repubs don’t use lube and usually don’t warn you. Dems use lube, tell you its coming, and then expect you to enjoy it.
I have a lovely attitude towards politics today.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:04 pmThe truth is, that ultimately if both parties are broken it is up to the American people to vote them both out. Sorry, you cannot, if you are a rightwinger, get away with saying “The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans” and then vote Republican, anymore then a leftwinger can get away with saying “The Republicans are just as bad as the Dmeocrats” and vote Democrat.
A time must come when you kick both parties out and start afresh with the little guys.
That said, the Democrats have two years to prove their doubters wrong, they have two years to turn Congress around and show what they can do. If they can achieve a good, clean government, then they deserve your vote. If not, then its time to think independent.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:05 pmLet them explain themselves to the voters in 18-20 months.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:06 pmThe Philadephia Enquire ran a full front page article of How Arlen Specter was upholding the US Constituion, providing oversight and saying the Decider was wrong that Congress and the President were equal.
Now that he rubber-stamped the President’s decision by voting to filibuster a debate in the Senate, the major newspaper is silent on his betrayal.
Americans please watch these charlatans, what they say and more importantly how they vote. Throw them out in 08.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:06 pm#24 Katy
Sorry, but your reaction seems to be way off. Fortruth is unfortunately as right on the issue as one can be. Please read this article. It is as long as the list of lies that come/came from ‘both’ parties.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:07 pmhttp://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/ home/ Frontpage/ 2007/ 01/ 30/ 01344.html
And by the way, I was always amused about the two party system in the first place. Two parties to govern a nation? Like one party in the former USSR or democracy in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt?
Democracy does not work. It is rather the self service institution of a few over the masses. As long as we don’t change the system, the trough will always be the same. Only the pigs change.
Now lets talk about Lisa Nowak, and the astronaut love triangle. It appears Lisa was planning to kill the other one. How can an accomplished astronaut, with a master’s in aerospace engineering, and a test pilot with a successful mission into space behave like this? And for some sick reason I find this really interesting. Talk about devotion.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:07 pmGonna be a black rain cloud. When you look at the vote (glad for the link–49 Yes and 47 No and 4 No Votes), it needed 60 to pass. Counting Reid and the “turncoat” Republican escalation critics, the vote would have had 8 additional “Yes” votes. That still would have only been 57. Any of these Republican voters could have chosen to vote No for the same reason Reid did. All see a political opportunity to look good and/or a chance to save the resolution. A good question is: Where is McCain?
February 6th, 2007 at 1:09 pmWell, THAT should be the last of the HAGEL, WARNER, COLLINS, SPECTER, and other REPUBLICANS grandstanding!!!
NOW AMERICA KNOWS that these MEN are COWARDS when it comes to voting their convictions!!!
Right or Left, Up or Down, they hide behind procedures instead of making a stand on whet they believe!!!
February 6th, 2007 at 1:10 pmIs the Philidelphia Enquirer going to do a follow up on how Sphincter was full of shit? I think the liberty bell just busted a new crack.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:11 pm2 party system my ass. It’s all about the dead presidents.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:14 pmThe Dems are cowards, and are now retreating from retreating. If you don’t play to win, you lose.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:15 pmOK, maybe you can understand this one then: http://www.rawstory.com/ news/ 2007/ Fox_reports_Dems_failed_to_end_0206.html
Though Democrats have only a one-vote majority in the Senate, and do not enjoy the support of Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT), passing the actual measure requires a simple majority of the Senate, and is feasible thanks to the support of a handful of vocal Republican.
But bringing Warner-Levin to the floor in the first place requires ending the debate over its terms—a procedural matter called cloture—which itself requires a 60-vote majority. On that issue, the Times reported, “Democrats refused a proposal by Senator Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, that would have cleared the way for a floor fight on the Warner resolution in return for votes on two competing Republican alternatives that were more supportive of the president.â€
One of those proposals, floated by Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH), would have inserted language that discouraged Congress from ending funding of the war. Gregg’s terms are largely voiced in the Warner-Levin resolution, though his alternate proposal doesn’t say a word about the troop escalation per se.
The other was a request by McConnell that Warner-Levin pass with no fewer than 60 votes.
Democrats became concerned that the substance of the Republican measures left open the possibility that the Senate might approve Gregg’s position, but vote down the Warner-Levin compromise—leaving the impression that Congress opposes funding changes, but does not ultimately oppose the “surge†itself.
Democratic efforts to forestall Gregg and McConnell’s requests resulted in a nearly bipartisan vote against ending debate and moving the entire resolution to the floor.
Republican Senators Olympia Snowe of Maine and Norm Coleman of Minnesota voted with Democrats. Lieberman voted against bringing the bill to the floor as did Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV). Reid’s vote was part of a procedural tactic that will allow him to bring the issue before the Senate again at a later date, though he has not yet announced whether he plans to move forward with the same resolution.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:18 pmFor Truth and Katy
I back on For Truth concerning this. The spectrum of debate is very narrow between Republicans and Democrats. When it comes to foreign policy “reasonable positions” are even narrower in terms of difference.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:18 pmIt is not all that hidden how both Dems and Reps are beholden to corporate and military interests.
I feel like I repeat this on every thread; but I’m glad to see it brought up by others.
TP is not really a progressive blog, it is a dem. blog. A progressive blog would have us hearing from true progressive voices, would flow more along the lines of what you hear democracy now! or read in “z” or even the Nation. If one is really lazy you can watch films like: The Corporation, Why We Fight, the Fog of War, as a start. Or pick up just about any Noam CHomsky book
Some here have suggested that public funding of elections is a way to wrest control from corporate candidates (from both business parties). We are lucky in the U.S. that some semblance of freedom of speech, transperancy in govt and elected officials being “civil servants” has to be preserved.
It is not a difficult argument to make that Dems. form part of the business party in conjuction with Reps.
I read the rebuttal and rational, but… why in the hell does it have to be so damned complicated? I just don’t believe that it needs to be “either/or”. A simple “this way” should suffice and alleviate a lot of the undercurrent of having it both ways. What a bunch of crap!
February 6th, 2007 at 1:18 pmyou want independant parties? then get rid of the electoral collage … won’t happen till then… so it probably won’t happen…
you want corporations out of politics? me too… push for PUBLIC FINANCED elections…
but don’t bring up that “dems are the same as repugs” meme, when it’s obvious as the nose on your faces that they aren’t… what we’ve been through since ‘98 was not brought on by dems.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:22 pm.
Hagel, Warner, Specter are not Senators, they’re ACTORS. They’re under orders to get on t.v. with blustery anti-Bush rhetoric once a month. But don’t believe a word these three stooges SAY. Watch what they DO. Their actions never align with their words. They’re successfully playing the public like fools. Get the word out!
February 6th, 2007 at 1:23 pm#49 Liberal in New Mexico
why in the hell does it have to be so damned complicated? I just don’t believe that it needs to be “either/orâ€. A simple “this way†should suffice and alleviate a lot of the undercurrent of having it both ways. What a bunch of crap!
It’s parliamentary procedure and Senate rules. I agree that it’s ridiculous and contrived and convoluted, but it’s what they’re operating under right now and there isn’t an awful lot they can do to get around it. Harry Reid said that the resolution isn’t going away and that the Republicans are going to have to deal with it sooner or later, but right now it’s being held off by a filibuster.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:24 pmJason,
both parties are filled with cowards, they both have proven their cowardess time and time again.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:25 pmNot to be too demanding… ;-)
February 6th, 2007 at 1:26 pmBut I already published and posted the only solution to break the corporate rule in government.
A system of ‘parliamentary duty’ as in ‘jury duty’. No more elections. Elections are the reason why we are in deep shit in the first place. All the misery in the world comes from elections. Historically proven. People get lied to and we all know, they even go to war and massacre a whole nation based on lies. There are lies as far as the sore eye can see. Now with a parliament that constitutes itself out of the people, instead of out of a political power elite and their corporate enablers, things wouldn’t be that bad. I trust John and Jane Doe generally more than any politician. Look at Lie-berman for instance. The guy needs to be dragged out of the senate by Connecticutians and slapped into meaninglessness. And that’s just one of them.
#50 katy
Thanks, katy. The Dems have plenty of faults and some of them are beholden to the same corporate interests as Republicans (cough…Feinstein…cough), but the two parties aren’t even close.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:27 pmGood point Katy,
I think the whole BJ Clinton thing was a way to get Bill in line with the real party of Corporatism. Now Bill hangs with GHWB?
There are some differences, like the hot button issues, but other than those fake ass drum up the base issues, whats the difference?
February 6th, 2007 at 1:28 pmfrom the late, great comedian Bill Hicks:
I’ll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here. “I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.” “I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.” “Hey, wait a minute, there’s one guy holding out both puppets!”
February 6th, 2007 at 1:31 pmThis was genius of Reed! Good for him to pull a smooth move on these hypocrites!
February 6th, 2007 at 1:31 pmThere will be justice in this country…
…I’m sure of it…
…one sweet day…
February 6th, 2007 at 1:33 pm#35 - I follow what you’re saying completely and although it looks like one thing “for the record”, the american people know precisely what’s going on and there is still an overwhelming “vote of no confidence” registered with the american people. If, however, one of the true shapeshifters believes that they’ve pulled one over on the people, they’re sadly mistaken. It looks like McCain and Lieberman are not “boxed into a corner” when/if it comes back up for a vote….I’d say they’re “hoist on their own pitard” and will seal their own campaign coffins right then.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:34 pm# 36 Comment by ForTruth
Great post, ForTruth. Im with you. I get sick by all parties in every government.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:40 pmThank you Juan,
I think I had a good post as well. I’ll back it up any day.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:42 pmDems are the “no trans-fat” version of Repubs.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:43 pmMy favorite source of truth:
February 6th, 2007 at 1:45 pmhttp://dissidentnews.wordpress.com/
Might not be rewarding for the stomach but nevertheless it soothes to realize that there are people out there who can articulate what’s going on right now.
BTW, Hawaii has record LOWS. This morning my thermometer showed wimpy 58F. That’s a first for me. Shiver.
Here’s some bloodline info about our presidents. All of them are bastards.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:46 pmCongress’ collegiality…
…is going to kill…
…hundreds of thousands more human beings…
…and bankrupt our country…
February 6th, 2007 at 1:47 pmYou can understand why Big Papa calls them inbred. There is truth to that. They want to keep it in the family. Like royalty.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:49 pmComment by ForTruth #s 65, & 67
No doubt TRUTH!
February 6th, 2007 at 1:57 pmTP is not really a progressive blog, it is a dem. blog. A progressive blog would have us hearing from true progressive voices, would flow more along the lines of what you hear democracy now! or read in “z†or even the Nation.
Comment by CarlX
I agree.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:57 pmFor some good reasons I believe planetary changes will kick in very soon and take care of many things. With no National Guard handy it will get nasty. Politicians of both parties have betrayed the public. Way too long there has been done nothing to achieve justice. Earth is changing very quickly and will render elections and traditional governments as useless and obsolete. We are in for the ride of mankind. Everybody has his/her share on this one.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:57 pmMaybe not Tibet.
It really makes me wonder, what naked pictures does Karl Rove have of these people?
Comment by nffcnn
The real purpose of the domestic spying program should now be clear to all.
Someone who successfully bugged the individual members of the United Nations Security Council would certainly have no qualms about using similar techniques to keep Congress goose stepping.
February 6th, 2007 at 1:58 pmBTW, Hawaii has record LOWS. This morning my thermometer showed wimpy 58F. That’s a first for me. Shiver.
Comment by ItsJustKarma #64
DAMN!
I hate you Karma…
February 6th, 2007 at 2:00 pmDon’t You love the scene in ‘V-For Vendetta’ where the House of Parliaments blows up in a firework?
February 6th, 2007 at 2:00 pmFor Truth
that’s a new site for me, I like it, there is a nice article on the permanent military industrial complex (of which democrats are a fixture i might add)
http://dissidentnews.wordpress.com/
katy, all I suppose, i’m glad to see this in debate: how dedicated our dems to qualitative progressive change, are they the other business party? etc.
I find this much more interesting and productive than discussing why republicans are idiots, or the ludicrous subject ( a favorite of pompous *sses like sexion) of “is global warming caused by humans”
February 6th, 2007 at 2:03 pmWhy, Big Papa, are You telling me You got it even colder than that? I have an intolerance for cold… Sorry if You are freezing more than me! ;-(
February 6th, 2007 at 2:04 pmboston: some degrees below freezing! and i was born and raised in the perfect weather of oakland california, not sure how much longer i can take this
February 6th, 2007 at 2:07 pm‘Below freezing’ entitles You for some real sympathy on my behalf. I am sorry to hear that. As I am sorry for anybody out there that suffers from unusual cold or heat. But I know it will get way worse.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:11 pm“Corporations are treated as individuals under the US Constitution, based on years of court decisions — the first of which, the 1886 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Santa Clara v. Union Pacific, granted corporations the same free speech and privacy rights as individual Americans. This allowed corporations to use their vast resources to take over the airwaves and the presses and to petition lawmakers, while also shielding their activities from the prying eyes of the public.
“The Supreme Court ruling was built around the 14th Amendment,” said Jim Mohn, one of the volunteers. “Corporations were declared to have personhood and to have the various right protected by the Bill of Rights but non of the responsibilities that go with it.”
At the same time, however, the courts cast corporate profits as property, preventing the public from interfering in matters that ultimately might affect the bottom line. Richard L. Grossman and Frank T. Adams put it this way in a pamphlet called “Taking Care of Business: Citizenship and the Charter of Incorporation” (published in 1993 by Charter, Ink. and the Program on Corporations, Law & Democracy):â€
February 6th, 2007 at 2:47 pmGood ol’ Honest Abe derailed us w/ his John Hancock on the whole idea. So now that business runs the show what does that imply for “OUR†futures? Central corporate control (FED) organizes and manages 50 smaller corporate entities (states) made up of businesses (mob) who are ultimately slave holders issuing credits to the POOR that toil and work for them.
Government has gone full circle, the names and costumes have changed but corporation is just another word for vassal while poor, worker and surf are all interchangeable. Don’t you ever wonder exactly why we are in Iraq? The survival of mankind depends on our ability to reason facts and not make choices based on emotion. So many were reeling after 9-11 that if attacking squirrels and chipmunks for payback was called we would have all done it.
For those that would argue that a corporation is nothing more than a collective of people misses the point that the office manager on the bottom is not part of the corporate elite. All of the politicians we see today are from corporate wealth that long ago was to be forbidden. Abe Lincoln changed that (he was a railroad lawyer) and the country was changed for all time at that moment. This is why slavery was abolished. Slaves were all of those not in the ruling class. Transferring paper wealth to surfs and peasants allows for an invisible control mechanism and keeps the gold flowing to the wealthy.
Our current leadership controls the US Army, US Marines, US Air Force, etc; since that is the truth his duty lies in the corporate world that he is part of. Individuals have no true right except to know suffering should he or she choose a different path. In the bigger picture the world (humans) lacks direction. We are doomed to repeat history and we seem to have egos that are not realistic.
I don’t like this yet outside of a bloody revolt making war on (insert race, religion, etc. here) is better than destroying my own country. After we kill them all then there shall be true peace and a bigger slice of the corporate pie for the survivors. True life is about the concept of “KILL OR BE KILLEDâ€. An overpopulated, overheated, violent and painful world needs cleansing with fire every now and again. It’s nature at work!
Right on folks, we have a discussion. Yup we could go off all day about how dumb Seixon is, but who cares. I think the royalty wants all us little serfs to argue over “party issues”. They got it all wrapped up nicely.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:51 pmDirk we are getting to the heart of all the issues. Forget squabbling over the issues. They will never be fully addressed as long as the current system is in place.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:55 pmYou can employee many excuses for going to war yet from my point of view I hope I’m on the side that survives. People don’t want to be honest about anything. None among us are actually innocent and more then that none of will live forever. We are getting more and more crowded into smaller boxes and soon it will blow up. War is one of many methods of removing excess population. You must harness your killer instincts in order to survive.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:23 pmI will put out an example: OIL
It appears that the human population is using more oil than it has the ability to pump from the ground. Faced with all of the possibilities in the realization that the US is more than depends on the gravy our leaders face choices. We don’t have to steal the oil we just have to surround the oil and keep others (Chinese, Indians, etc.) away from it. Imagine how it gets when we have less of the gravy? It hurts since our crops depend on ammonia from NG. Food needs trucks, rail, ships and refrigeration.
We will soon see how our survival skills work as things run down. The government will preserve itself no matter what becomes of the population. I’m sure that the FED boys realize that you can’t kill enough people fast enough no matter how you do it. There are more methods but all are employed for the same reason. Thinning out the heard and redistributing the resources. I need 3 gallons of oil a day and if I take a cup of yours then F U I WIN.
#33
Dan Akroyd, John Belushi and John Goodman all deserve apologies for that low-blow.
They weren’t this bad!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:39 pmImpeach the republican party!!! These friggin cawards. Gutless bastard are going to let more troops die and for what??? What the hell is in the Iraq war for America as a whole??
February 6th, 2007 at 4:02 pmHey, this resolution was debated and passed:
Washington, D.C. – U.S. Sen. Wayne Allard (R-Colo.) announced today that the U.S. Senate passed a bipartisan resolution honoring our nation’s 40th president, Ronald Reagan, by officially declaring February 6, 2007, “Ronald Reagan Day.†U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) co-sponsored the resolution.
“Today, on what would have been his 96th birthday, we praise the life and accomplishments of the Great Communicator,†said Allard. “President Ronald Reagan was a man who meant so much to so many through his noble efforts to spread the ideals of democracy around the world.â€
“Ronald Reagan dared to do the impossible, not because it was easy but because it had to be done,†said Allard. “His is a legacy that we will always cherish. I remain firm in my admiration of this great leader whose integrity was always unquestioned.â€
February 6th, 2007 at 4:23 pmoff topic, excuse…
FOR TRUTH - if you are not now listening to randi rhodes today, i recommend that you download the pod cast and get a good earful!
ralph nader - heeeeee’s baaa-ack - is a phony spoiler! go randi!
she knows what you need to get independant third parties - he doesn’t!
now, back to the topic…
February 6th, 2007 at 5:33 pmTHanks Katy,
I’ll have to download the podcast.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:02 pm#83 - OIL or the control of the amount that gets to the USA. Control of the Persian Gulf to insure the oil flows (each naval battle group consumes 6 million barrels of oil per day). Dominance through resource control!
February 6th, 2007 at 7:26 pmWow, you know your a moron when you vote against your own proposal.
Just… wow.
February 6th, 2007 at 8:42 pmI find it amazing the sqaaubble over the two party system, leaning one way or the other (by so little). Never the less so effective, much is their way with the war. Divide and conquer, and the truth, most people can’t handel the truth or acknowledge it. It would be to painful, easier to haggle while they proceed with their methods to their madness, at the expense of THEIR WORKING SLAVES, most of white coller america and all of the blue and the poor. White collar like to think some how they are not that low as the blue because of their salarys vs blues wages that they have to gravel for with corrupt unions. The elite and their top workers in hiarchy, politicians (scape goats), who ultimately keep the publics eyes from searchign out the true culprits. While we seem to not have learned from our history of other wars and the lies that took us there. The elite with their greed and arrogance have not learned either, in fact spoiled by american gluttony. The wide disparity of classes and disregaurd for human life that they have and are continuing to perpetuate, will come back to bite them in the ass. Through out history these very same conditions with wars thrown in have laid the foundations for revolt. The Bush proposal calls to keep (SOTU) the volunteers here in the U.S. I have not seen a word on this, it was at the end of his speech. He mentions 98000 troops with the volunteers to be kept here at home, there is a reason for this. These men and women are tagged as likely to be behind his (THEIR goals ) , thus more likely to put down their own people. Hello the draft. Minoritys will start first, ect. I have to say I agree with Dirk Shreaders two posts above. In addition I consider Chomsky a traitaor to his own cause and Michael Moore the same ( The Corporation). Yes much truth, which they turn on to support the carrot stick party the Democrates, who also are for taking this to Iran, just in differant words but still written in blood bath- Genocide for oil. 2 party corrupt system, needs at least a third MAJOR contending to help keep them honest, full overhaul also. No matter which party, the end result the same . This assault on our democracy, by facism and theocracy has grown an ugly face. Clinton, Bushes father and Grandfather, back to >>> And the proposals of Wolfowitz in Regan, yet still goes back to Eisenhour and WWII. I must repeat Wolfowitz published propasals. Oh, the conspiracy thing? Had Rosevelts new deal not been done a revolt would have happened. We are close to a financial ruin; from our own complacency and continual persuit of the carrot. They want us to pay for what they gave us even more now. So they can compete as the leaders on the world market. We must help them get control of the oil, or the emerging powers will get it . While their B.S. continues the methods to their maddness also. These war plan blunderings are very well planned, maddness to achieve their goals for control and escalation, connect the dots. This war will escalate, with planned caos to make so. Clintons speach to AIPC published in Heertz says in her own words, support to stop Iran. The publics only hope is to organize and push long and hard NOW to LOL possibly intimidate them. Stalling B.S. in D.C. and we bicker ignoreing what is in front of us, (the truth, thats simple), standing up for it is another. Go ahead keep trusting them to get something done (the voters have spoken), say it again one more time.
February 9th, 2007 at 6:09 pmSimply, just GENOCIDE for OIL . Follow the Shiete Oil wells. With Sunni minority and massacre, in come Sunni Saudis, Egypt, Jordan, and partnered Israel coalition. Probably signed into with Cheneys and Bushes recient visits. So much for democracy, as the dictators we lay with and invasive occupiers we support, band together waiting to be born. Please seack out adn read the true translation of Ahmadinejad speach , were he dose not call out for the destrutuction of Israel or deny teh holocaust. Publishers clearing house has it I believe.
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