O’Reilly And Beck Agree: We’re ‘Afraid’ To Have ‘A Lot Of African-American Friends’
O’Reilly And Beck Agree: We’re ‘Afraid’ To Have ‘A Lot Of African-American Friends’
Last night on Fox News, Bill O’Reilly led a discussion about Sen. Joe Biden’s (D-DE) racially-insensitive remarks toward Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL). But instead of exlusively focusing on why the remarks were condescending to African-Americans, he said blacks should “feel sorry for us white folks here, because I’m telling you now I’m afraid to say anything. … White Americans are terrified.” Watch it:
My Two Sense points out that CNN’s Glenn Beck hosted a similar discussion last night, during which he said, “I don’t have a lot of African-American friends, and I think part of it is because I’m afraid that I would be in an open conversation, and I would say something that somebody would take wrong, and then it would be a nightmare.” Watch it:
As The New York Times’s Lynette Clemetson notes, “When whites use the word [articulate] in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. … Such a subtext is inherently offensive because it suggests that the recipient of the ‘compliment’ is notably different from other black people.”
Transcripts below:
O’REILLY: Now you got to feel sorry for us white folks here, because I’m telling you now I’m afraid to say anything. You know, you’re an articulate guy, doctor, but I’m never going to say that. You’re a smart guy. Is that bad if I say you’re a smart guy? … Yes, absolutely, instead of black and white Americans coming together, white Americans are terrified. They’re terrified. Now we can’t even say you’re articulate? We can’t even give you guys compliments because they may be taken as condescension?
BECK: You know, Shelby, I don’t know if anybody else in the audience — oh, this is just going to be a blog nightmare over the next few days. But let me just be honest and play my cards face up on the table.
I was thinking about this just last week. I don’t have a lot of African-American friends, and I think part of it is because I’m afraid that I would be in an open conversation, and I would say something that somebody would take wrong, and then it would be a nightmare. Am I alone in feeling that?
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Why don’t they just come out and admit they’re members of the KKK.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:14 pmHow tone deaf do these people have to be? The insensitivity/stupidity is astounding.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:15 pmNow what self respecting African American man or woman would want to be anywhere near either of these contempable bozos?
February 6th, 2007 at 2:15 pmIt’s so considerate of O’Reilly and Beck – super-polite, really – to admit how racist they are. That way, there’s no misunderstanding, no shattered expectations, no one gets hurt — well not directly, anyway. Now back to their regularly scheduled hating.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:15 pmwe’re over in the anti escalation vote thread and tp posts us some tv crap from faux news; just when we were getting to how TP is not actaully a progressive site, but a dem site, we are given fox news as a topic? whatever
February 6th, 2007 at 2:16 pmAt least Beck knows his limitations… He would say something stupid. The only problem is he’s the one who misunderstands it’s meaning and impact – or he doesn’t care.
Racism is racism – whether by ignorance or choice.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:17 pmDid any of you watch the shows?
February 6th, 2007 at 2:19 pmnotice Beck says “this will be a blog nightmare”.
welcome to your nightmare. MUHAHAHAHA.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:19 pmWTF!!! ” I’m afraid to say anything!” What kind of argument is this.
No Bill/Glenn, you dont have Black freinds because your racist!
February 6th, 2007 at 2:21 pmIf O’Liely and Beck can’t trust themselves enough to speak then they should keep their foolish mouths closed! I suppose when one has bigotry so engrained, it is impossible to realize that your words may be inflammatory…..but then, all anchors on Faux News open mouth and insert foot. There’s nothing there between the ears and it’s becoming increasingly more apparent to viewers who are feeling sorry for the poor sots. Got a loofah, Bill??? whoops I dropped the soap….
February 6th, 2007 at 2:23 pmIDIOTS!!!
There are trailer park white folk down here in Texas who you might say are verbally challenged, (actually quite a few folks here are, I’m not as dad is from Ohio), folks that are educated and traveled, not so much. Expecting black folk from the hood, or those who are uneducated, or live in that type of enviroment to speak like Obama Barack or Colin Powell is unrealistic. What is our presidents excuse, he is a YALE graduate.
I don’t often agree with O’Liely but I respect his credentials and he is a GOOD speaker. Beck is a good speaker too, just hard to digest, unless he is doing the soft stuff like he did with Janice Dickenson as guest one night. That was a good show!
Glenn and Bill, you NEED some black friends, don’t know what you are missing…
February 6th, 2007 at 2:23 pm“I’m afraid to say anything”……the answer to that is quite simple: DON’T EVEN OPEN YOUR FOUL LITTLE TRAPS!
February 6th, 2007 at 2:24 pm#
Did any of you watch the shows?
Comment by Kevin — February 6, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
Only when I need a good laxative. Otherwise no. Did you watch Olbermann? or the Daily Show last night?
February 6th, 2007 at 2:25 pmDid you watch the shows, Kevin?
February 6th, 2007 at 2:25 pmis it racist to say that i wish all rap on tv had subtitles so that i could understand what they are saying? even m&m…
February 6th, 2007 at 2:26 pmis it?
Did the rightwing hacks mention that Bush made similar comments about Obama??!? ha!
February 6th, 2007 at 2:26 pmI watched O’Reilly. First of all, he was talking about the flack Bush (not Biden) has been getting for saying that Obama was articulate. That “articulate†is some sort of code word that is some sort of racial slur. But as you know, it depends on who said it. Biden get’s a free pass.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:28 pmNo Katy,
That means you are as old as I am… :)
February 6th, 2007 at 2:28 pmExpecting black folk from the hood, or those who are uneducated, or live in that type of enviroment to speak like Obama Barack or Colin Powell is unrealistic. What is our presidents excuse, he is a YALE graduate.
…
Comment by Texas Juice — February 6, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
i think that is an excellent point, and so obvious…
February 6th, 2007 at 2:29 pmwhite or black or blue or green – EDUCATION matters.
and again, obvious, the degree doesn’t.
Do these guys even get out and see America? Seriously, where have they been living. Republicans are so isolated, it’s not even funny. In their own little bubble, with a bunch of yes men.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:30 pmNo. But I’m not making rash statements about the show without watching it ether,
February 6th, 2007 at 2:31 pmKevin,
Biden doesn’t get a free pass.
Are you saying our president should???
February 6th, 2007 at 2:32 pmRacism is racism – whether by ignorance or choice.
Comment by Technodaoist — February 6, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
No. Ignorance only needs to be corrected. The choice (or willfull ignorance) needs to be mercilessly stepped on. Make sure exactly what you are arguing about before you open your mouth. If Biden is just ignorant, then this whole issue shouldn’t even have happened. There are plenty of reasons to hate Biden. I don’t need to make up one.
On the other hand, if he was motivated to be racially “indelicate” and just misplaced the line somewhere, then he should be kicked in the face several times. Either way, the discussion is pointless. We know what he said, and since he’s a politician, so we can’t trust what HE says about why he said it, so…. end of story, we can all not vote for him next time and go on about our business.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:32 pmSo Beck was afraid to say something in an open conversation but says that on national TV. Why don’t I believe him.
Excellent point Texas Juice. Wouldn’t you agree Kevin?
February 6th, 2007 at 2:34 pm#
No. But I’m not making rash statements about the show without watching it ether,
Comment by Kevin — February 6, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
Just pointing out the absurdity of your comments Kevin, jeez drop the chip on your shoulder. Face it watching the show, when these kind of statements are made is irrelevant. I realize that you need to fear something, but you have a wide range of choices, Blacks, Latinos, Muslims, Gays. Perhaps just pick one, be alot simpler at least.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:36 pmSo, we’ve returned to the late 60’s, early 70’s.
First off, we’ve recreated a horrific war in which hundreds of thousands of people are murdered through our direct actions or due to our creation and that no one can justify yet everyone is an expert on how to finish it so that we can retain our “honor”.
Next we are recreating the race issues. The only variance is that now the racist mantra is not “some of my best friends are nigg*rs”, but has been changed to “I can’t have nigg*rs as friends because it will probably expose my racism”.
And then instead of the ozone and pollution crisis, we now have the global warming and space pollution crisis.
Gee, all we have to do now is have the economy go to sh*t. Oh, wait…
February 6th, 2007 at 2:38 pmYes he did. If any conservative senator had said what Biden said, you all would have asked for his head and his resignation.
No, The President should not get a free pass. But calling a black man articulate is not a racial slur. It’s a complement.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:40 pmNo. Ignorance only needs to be corrected. The choice (or willfull ignorance) needs to be mercilessly stepped on.
Comment by swordsbane
You are speaking of methods of dealing with racism. I was not. Your own statements indicate there are different types and reasons for racism. That was all my stament said. Make sure exactly what you are arguing about before you open your mouth.
In order to clarify what we are discussing. Are your comments re: biden directed at me? I think you are reading several posts and responding to them all at once… but I’m not sure so I ask.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:40 pmThis is all too bad. I think Biden is the most qualified of the Dem candidates that I’ve seen so far (which isn’t saying much), but it appears that he’s been stopped before he even started.
I was told that CNN always refers to Obama with his middle name – Barak Hussein Obama – is that true?
I don’t care about his skin color, just his appearance as Del in the Crying Game.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:40 pmWere Sen. Biden’s remarks honestly racially insensitive? C’mon…get over it.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:43 pm“No. But I’m not making rash statements about the show without watching it ether”
sometimes really stupid comments don’t need a larger context for a closer examination, especially when the people making them have long records of saying things that are unquestionably stupid and offensive.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:44 pmThis has nothing to do with fear. It has to do with liberal/progressives calling anyone that does not agree with them a raciest.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:45 pmI don’t care about his skin color
February 6th, 2007 at 2:46 pmComment by Jason Misogynist Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Total Bull Crap from one of the biggest racist on this blog.
Again, Bull Crap!
you had me at “I think Biden is the most qualified of the Dem candidates.” idiot.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:48 pmAnyone notice how clean and articulate those Christians Beck and O’Rielly are?
February 6th, 2007 at 2:48 pmI don’t care about his skin color, just his appearance as Del in the Crying Game.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Racists don’t need skin color to hate… They rationalize it any way they can.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:49 pm#7 – No Kev, and I don’t do meth either, for much the same reason
What’s with the sudden storm of big, stinky Red Herring getting tossed around all over the place. It’s obviously the result of the rightpundits getting together with Tony Snow to construct a media gameplan to help out the President (for whom they all have latent homosexual cravings) There’s a war on the needs to be stopped, a band of wacked-out radicals controlling our Gov’t and Military, and a hell of lot higher priorities to deal with.
Losers like Beck and OReilly need to either keep treading water in the deep end, or get out of the pool –
Losers like Kev and Hendler can live on a diet of red herring all they want. Real Americans shouldn’t have to.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI am clean and articulate, and I am not even black.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:51 pmNo Katy,
That means you are as old as I am… :)
Comment by Technodaoist — February 6, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
whew! so glad to know that…
i’m really not racist… but my lily-white upbringing in my lily-white region of illinois has had an unfortunate affect on some of my initial reactions to many events and circumstances… i never really understood the racism that was just a fact of life around me – until i moved away and lived and worked among black and other races in a larger city… then i understood why there is racism… but i also then understood why it is so WRONG…
and my kids helped to further develop my sense of civil righteousness, as they grew up more tolerant and moved on to college (i didn’t) where racial diversity is just a given…
but, you know, i still have no idea what mick jagger is saying in parts of jumpin’ jack flash, among others… heh…
February 6th, 2007 at 2:55 pmI am clean and articulate, and I am not even black.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Once again – Jason M. Hendler becomes the Alan Smithee of TP…
It only illustrates the foolishness of his own statements all the better.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:56 pmO’stupid-o is just another tool of the wealthy, American royalty. And Bill is not invited to the Bilderbergs.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:56 pmHear that ladies, Jason says he’s well-groomed. Don’t fall all over yourselves getting to him.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:57 pmI am clean and articulate, and I am not even black. Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
At least that’s what my crazy momma says. You all know me to be a smelly, inarticulate, bigoted, homophobic and misogynistic prick. That’s why I keep making these hateful comments, and think you people are wrong for criticizing me! I’m a scrawny little Aspergers Cracker, that’s too stupid to know what a fool I am! Fear me, I am white!
February 6th, 2007 at 2:58 pmI don’t care about his skin color, just his appearance as Del in the Crying Game. Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Not to be confused with my appearance on Dateline’s to catch a predator!
February 6th, 2007 at 2:58 pm#42, For Truth,
Assuming you are a woman, I will shave if you do ;).
February 6th, 2007 at 3:01 pmOnly white guys with small weiners are afraid to have a black friend.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:03 pmAssuming you are a woman, I will shave if you do ;).
Comment by Jason Misogynist Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:01
Oh Geez! I think I just threw up in my mouth
February 6th, 2007 at 3:04 pmAssuming you are a woman, I will shave if you do ;). Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
But I’ll need to start with my palms, since I’m a Neanderthal sexist fool.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:05 pmKevin,
Missed your reply about Biden.
We apparently have differing definitions of “Free Pass”. It is kind of subjective, I suppose. Biden was criticized. Biden was mocked. Biden screwed up his candidacy the day he announced it. No one needed his head, because it was obvious he’d already lost it…
Sorry everybody for shifting the topic, but racism knows no skin color… It should be confronted in all its forms.
Beck and O’Reilly still suck.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:05 pmOnly white guys with small weiners are afraid to have a black friend. Comment by ForTruth — February 6, 2007 @ 3:03 pm
How did you know why I was still single, and hated women so much?
February 6th, 2007 at 3:05 pmJason I’m a man. I already shaved today. And you give me the creeps.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:07 pmOnly white guys with small weiners are afraid to have a black friend.
Comment by ForTruth
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
So THAT’s why I get along with everyone!!!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:07 pmWow, not only do you have a feminazi attempting to emasculate men, but you now have a strawman feeding you the responses you crave ….
February 6th, 2007 at 3:10 pmEveryone notice how Jason Ignores me, like most good conservatives? It’s easier to be a hate filled self righteous bigoted prick when you ignore your conscience!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:11 pm#51, ForTruth,
You are a man? Wow, your opinions, diction and tenor caused me to think you were female – my bad.
#52, Techno,
True or not, that is too much information.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:12 pm“I don’t have a lot of African-American friends…”
and they don’t even realize that it is not by THEIR choice.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:12 pmThe tragedy is that due to our society’s intolerance of Accidentally Externalized Racsim Syndrome, there are some perfectly lovely Negroes out there being deprived of the friendships of Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly.
Just further proof that the Liberal oppression of White Men also hurts those of less fortunate coloration.
I hope Bill and Glenn will bravely risk the personal comfort that is the God-given Right of Rich White Men — and reach out to some Persons of Color, whether they deserve it or not.
God bless you, Glenn and Bill.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:12 pmWow, not only do you have a feminazi attempting to emasculate men, but you now have a strawman feeding you the responses you crave …. Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
Only white men with little weiners and no girlfriends think a strong woman is a feminazi. Oh wait, that defines jason doesn’t it?
Just remember everyone, when you’re a depraved lunatic, it’s everyone else that’s wrong, and that’s why you’re single, miserable, and so full of bile! It’s not because you’re a crazed lunatic, with the social skills of noodle. It’s because everyone else is a feminazi!
See how easy that is!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:13 pmOh, and to all you ignorant racists out there, do you like apples?
You see, sometime in the next 5 to 10 years your “race” will become the minority. Yep, that means that the black, brown, yellow, and red folk will be in the majority and will assume power over EVERYTHING. Of course, I’m sure that they will be every bit as sensitive, inclusive, and understanding as you whities have been while you’ve been the “majority”.
So, how do you like them apples?
(h/t to Goodwill Hunting for the best set up ever)
February 6th, 2007 at 3:14 pmFor everyone that didn’t guess, what I crave is ‘Del from the Crying Game’. I know I’m screwed up, but that’s why I’m still single, and think hate is the new love!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:15 pmWow, not only do you have a feminazi attempting to emasculate men
Comment by Jason Misogynist Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
Care to back that up as to whom you are refering to?
you now have a strawman feeding you the responses you crave
February 6th, 2007 at 3:15 pmUhhhh, what?
Yup Jason I’ve been a male all my life.
When were you planning on becoming a man?
February 6th, 2007 at 3:16 pmHey, Urban Heat, I don’t care who you think is the best Democrat. I don’t remember you being elected or selected as a Democratic leader or consultant.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:16 pmfor truth – know that the ladies of TP have never had any doubt about your gender… must be just those who are confused about their own…
February 6th, 2007 at 3:18 pmLOL too funny Jason, I happen to like strong willed women, the sex is better.
hehe
February 6th, 2007 at 3:19 pmJason blames the feminism movement for his inability to get some trim.
Trust me Jasey, there are plenty of “traditional” women out there who want to fit the stereotypical role. Funny thing is Jasper, this is the last place you would find any.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:20 pmThanks Katy,
I feel secure now again. Phew.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:21 pm#63, PLC,
I remember Biden sitting on a Senate panel, asking Bank of America why they were charging their customers a fee everytime they withdrew money from and ATM, when the bank was holding and earning interest on that money through loans they were making. He made BofA look like the jerks they were. After that, I really liked him.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:24 pm#65, Krazny,
That is no surprise – they tell you to hold still while they do it right.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:24 pmSome of those Republicans are articulate -they only sleep with their siblings some of the time!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:26 pmYou are a man? Wow, your opinions, diction and tenor caused me to think you were female – my bad.
Really? You were confused about this:
Hear that ladies, Jason says he’s well-groomed. Don’t fall all over yourselves getting to him.
Comment by ForTruth — February 6, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
Wow, only a lonely male living vicariously through blogs on the internets could ascertain that ForTruth was a woman. Had he said, Let’s not fall all over ourselves getting to him, then you would have a case.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:27 pmDude, it’s gotta be the Ivy League Stanford Education!
That is no surprise – they tell you to hold still while they do it right.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
and you STILL didn’t figure it out??? …
February 6th, 2007 at 3:31 pmyou can’t even take a hint, let alone understand directions…
white Americans are terrified. They’re terrified. Now we can’t even say you’re articulate?
::sigh::
Yeah, those poor, poor, oppresed white men. There is no end to their suffering, is there?
On top of economic depravation, the humiliation of living in fear, terror of saying something bad about minorities. Unless they’re in front of a microphone. Then it’s ok.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:31 pmWhat black person in his or her right mind would want to be friends with people like Beck or O’Reilly?
February 6th, 2007 at 3:32 pmThat is no surprise – they tell you to hold still while they do it right.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
Can’t blame them though, when you’re a fumbling fool that can’t do anything right though. Wait, who do I know that acts that way. Just sayin’ it explains the hatred of women, doesn’t it? Or maybe it’s just the asperbers that makes me so stupid to basic social cues that I actually think everyone else is wrong. Fool that I am, how could I possibly come to grips with my complete and utter failure as a man. It’s the women’s fault that they think I’m a creepy serial rapist and child molester.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:32 pm#65, Krazny,
That is no surprise – they tell you to hold still while they do it right.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
If that is what you think sex ought to be, then there is a reason your not getting laid.
PS the Del thing from the crying game is old, and stale, if you check that would also mean Barack Obama played the sun god Ra in Stargate.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:32 pm“That is no surprise – they tell you to hold still while they do it right.”
is that from one of o’reilly’s “books”? or is it from one of his calls to his coworkers?
February 6th, 2007 at 3:33 pmYou are a man? Wow, your opinions, diction and tenor caused me to think you were female – my bad. Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Because I have poor diction, and a bitchy tenor, I assume that anyone that acts masculine is a woman. See how that works?
And people wonder why the whole world thinks I’m a gay man!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:34 pmFrightened little white men?
Wow, I’m surprised. Wait a minute, no I’m not.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:36 pm.
If that is what you think sex ought to be, then there is a reason your not getting laid. Comment by Krazny — February 6, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
The reason my boy Jason is not getting laid, is that he has a severe case of Aspergers, coupled with a bad case of parenting, resulting in a boy so Creepy and Wierd women think he’s either a stalker or a child molester. But don’t look on his computer, his kiddie porn collection has to be returned to Mark Foley soon!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:37 pmThat is no surprise – they tell you to hold still while they do it right.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
There really is such thing as a talking donkey. Damn.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:39 pmI think Jason is actually asking for help. I’ve educated him on some female topics before. I hope he learned something.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:40 pm#76, Krazny,
Good catch (no pun intended).
Not only does Barack look like that effeminate transvestite actor, but he resembles the carvings / glyphs of Akenhaten, the egyption pharoah suspected of being a hermaphrodite (now termed chimerism).
February 6th, 2007 at 3:40 pmOne would think my “dick-shun” would say it all.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:41 pmJason,
I was pointing out to you, that Barack Obama, did not play the characters in either movie. It was an actor named Jay something, you can look it up on imdb.com. I realize you want to make him appear effeminate, but truth is he doesn’t.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:43 pmThat is no surprise – they tell you to hold still while they do it right.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
Okay, my little virgin bud, the next time you’re with a woman, t……(smirk) te…..(bfffttt!)(smirk!)(bfffftttt!!!!)
Hold on 1 second……
Whew. I’m back.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:45 pm…tell her you just want to “hold still”. Yeah, women just adore it when you hold still during a heated, passionate round of horizontal.
You’ve so much to learn
oops, that’s spelled Akhenaten, who landed Nefertiti, second only to Helen of Troy for her famed beauty …
February 6th, 2007 at 3:49 pmNot only does Barack look like that effeminate transvestite actor, but he resembles the carvings / glyphs of Akenhaten, the egyption pharoah suspected of being a hermaphrodite (now termed chimerism).
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
Jason has a CRUSH on Obama – how cute! Only a closet gay man would think someone as manly as Obama looks like a potential mate!
Come out of the Closet Jason!!!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:50 pm“I don’t have a lot of African-American friends, and I think part of it is because I’m afraid that I would be in an open conversation, and I would say something that somebody would take wrong, and then it would be a nightmare.â€
So gated communities aren’t enough for these closet racists. They cordon off their circle of friends, just in case something offensive might slip out. Of course, there’s also the cluelessness in recognizing that when some (most?) white people hear something offensive said about black people, they’re often offended by it too. Good God, O’Reilly and Beck are such morons, even for Irishmen–oops! Sorry! Please don’t take that the wrong way!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:50 pmoops, that’s spelled Akhenaten, who landed Nefertiti, second only to Helen of Troy for her famed beauty … Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
Yet he got laid, and you can’t. How SAD for you!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:51 pmJason,
What is with your obsession with masculinity? Take this comment, for instance:
[...] not only do you have a feminazi attempting to emasculate men [...]
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
I don’t know exactly who you are talking about, but I assume by “you have” you mean to say “people in this blog”. If that is so -get a clue. It’s a blog. There is no possible way anyone can emasculate men here, on “the internets”.
You may want to stop using this line; it makes your masculinity (or rather, your own sense of it) sound a tad, well, frail.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:53 pmAfter some research on the term hermaphrodite on wikipedia, it is now known as chimerism, but the general term that covers all those conditions is intersex.
Barack Hussein Obama resembles individuals who portray, or are suspected of being, intersex.
February 6th, 2007 at 3:57 pmOh, and Jason,
It is most puzzling that you should try to associate Obama with “effeminate” -he is married (to a woman) and is a father of two (I think it’s two. Could be more, I am not sure).
February 6th, 2007 at 3:58 pmThe only people “afraid” to be around black people are bigotted a$$holes.
Who watches these guys??
February 6th, 2007 at 3:59 pmBarack Hussein Obama resembles individuals who portray, or are suspected of being, intersex.
Comment by Jason Misogynist Hendler — February 6, 2007
Only in your demented little world, Jason. Only in your demented… little… world.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:02 pmJason is very stereotypical when it comes to genders. He must have a narrow view of that sort of thing. He thinks articulate, compassionate men, who take a shower must be gay.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:03 pmWell, looks like they at least
have their talking points
synched up nice and sweet.
Strange, It never even occurred to
me to have to watch what I say to or
around any of my black friends! Well,
maybe that’s because I’m not a racist
or a bigot or a coward.
I guess when you actually HAVE
February 6th, 2007 at 4:03 pmblack friends, you realize they’re
not so different and scary after all!
I think saying a black person is “articulate” is a slur in that is ASSUMES that, because they’re black, they’re usually NOT articulate. Sort of how you have to say “Bob the Republican is an ok guy, very open minded.”
February 6th, 2007 at 4:05 pmO’Lielly and Beck the Fly-Speck typify the worst in American Society of the kind of tintype demagogue who fans the flames of race and class hatred and try to portray themselves as “just one of the guys” who
February 6th, 2007 at 4:07 pmwould want you to have a beer and chat with them at the local tavern–YEAH, WEARING THOUSAND PLUS DOLLAR JOSEPH ABBOUD(tm) SUITS AND A WARDROBE THAT COULD FEED STARVING PEOPLE IN AMERICA FOR A YEAR…SMACKS OF HYPER-HYPOCRISY TO ME…O’Lielly and Beck should be flushed down the toilet to join the other OFFAL like Ann Coulter-geist, Michelle Malkin, Victor Davis Hanson, Charles Krauthammer, Melanie Morgan, Tony Blankley, Pat Buchanan, Ed Rogers, Bill Kristol, other repugnant-repubs(republican)SCUM in the sewers of forgotten IDIOT-logues and Jingoistic Fascist EXCREMENT!
Barack Hussein Obama resembles individuals who portray, or are suspected of being, intersex. Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
Poor Jason, sees one movie about an intersexed man, and produces an entire stereotype and obsession with people that look like the ‘actor’ in the movie! The ‘assbergers’ really makes Jason quite the a** doesn’t it?
February 6th, 2007 at 4:08 pmThe only way Jason can reconcile finding Obama sexually appealing, is to categorize him as effeminate. It never dawned on Jason, that he might be the effeminate one! Poor thing!
February 6th, 2007 at 4:09 pm#98, KikiD,
Let me ask a simple question?
Is it possible, that in stating “Barack is articulate”, doesn’t imply that blacks generally can’t be articulate, but that blacks generally aren’t? and in so stating that, is that racist?
February 6th, 2007 at 4:11 pmMaybe they’ve been around the block too many times, been screwed too many times, and it just ain’t in thier “nay-cha”. I have black friends and rule-of-thumb is -and should always be- treat each other as equals. What’s so freaking hard about that? Unless, of course, you’re superficial and insincere. Then, it’s a real problem.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:12 pmNot to defend them, but I think their points are simply that it’s often a minefield when race enters the conversation. I mean, I’d like to think that I’m about as non-racist as possbile, but one of Obama’s biggest strengths is that he’s an extremely articulate guy, and he’s got amazing charisma.
Now, I don’t mean that in the “articulate for a black guy” sense, I mean “articulate for a human being”. I think it’s a perfectly apt description of Obama and one that has nothing whatsoever to do with his race.
However, according to Lynette Clemetson, if I happened to be a public figure and described him as articulate, I’d suddenly be racist and condescending. Even Biden’s comments of Obama being “clean” — what if he just meant in the political sense of being free from any baggage? There are plenty of white politicians that I wouldn’t describe as being clean, so that strikes me as a perfectly reasonable description of a relative newcomer to the political scene.
Again, not to defend those guys, but there does seem to be an inordinate number of “code words” that somehow mean that you’re racist, and since I’m pretty sure I’m not aware of every single one of them, it’s really like a minefield when discussions of race come up. If you were a political figure, would you risk discussing it? And if you wouldn’t, doesn’t the blogosphere’s desire to jump down anyone’s throat who even APPEARS to have said something that MIGHT be racially-insensitive actually hurt our ability to have a open, honest discussion on race in America?
February 6th, 2007 at 4:16 pm“Oh, he’s so articulate. He speaks so well. He talks so well. That’s what people say about retarded people!” – Chris Rock in reference to white folk speaking about Colin Powell circa 1996 (I think).
February 6th, 2007 at 4:24 pmWell, believe me when I say that Bush is INARTICULATE and looks like a pointy-eared, cross-eyed pink monkey. Now, that’s rude, but true.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:33 pmJason M. Hendler
How did you get to be such an expert on homosexuality throughout history.
Was that your major or minor, or just extra credit.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:36 pmI want Glennn and Billl to have Carlos Mencia on as a guest to discuss issues of race.
Other than that, I want the red herring cleared from the damned table. There is much work to be done, a President to impeach, and a BUNCH of republican’ts to forever marginalize, and the discussions that beck oreilly and limbaugh have started are NOTHING BUT SMOKE AND RED HERRING.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:40 pmYou see, sometime in the next 5 to 10 years your “race†will become the minority.
Comment by Tuber
In this planet, white people are a minority.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:41 pmIs it possible, that in stating “Barack is articulateâ€, doesn’t imply that blacks generally can’t be articulate, but that blacks generally aren’t? and in so stating that, is that racist? Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
You don’t know many black people do you? What a homophobic, racists and stupid bigot Jason is.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:43 pmI went skiing on Sunday at our local ski area. There were more non-English speaking people than English speaking people. (It wasn’t all Spanish either). I think we need to get real used to that. I don’t think it can be stopped. Their money is as green as anyone’s.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:57 pmIn Mexico and Argentina, personal experience, bumping into a black person is a strange, almost fascinating event. It is like looking a person from a far far land. People always stare at a black person with curiosity. Must be like Rwandan kids looking at the white doctor from Europe.
In Mexico, I dont think that anyone is racist against black people, I guess we are busy being racists with natives. In Argentina, women are crazy about black guys and men are crazy about black women. There are more black people in Argentina than in Mexico, because of brazilians and columbians. Negro is a common word to call black people and nobody see this as an insulting word, not even the black person. It is pretty much like calling one as fattie, skinnie, shortie, etc, which in spanish words are like tender words to describe that person, almost never used as an insult. This is an non-issue in these countries.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:58 pmIn Latin countries I am “Flaco”. Its a nice word.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:01 pmYou don’t know many black people do you? What a homophobic, racists and stupid bigot Jason is.
What’s so racist about noting that the portion of the American population that can be considered “articulate” is pretty substantially white? Is it racist to note that white kids have better test scores than black kids too?
Again, pointing out differences between races isn’t inherently racist, and calling people names when they do so just makes people want to avoid the subject entirely.
There’s a difference between saying that “Blacks are inherently less articulate than whites” and “Blacks in general are less articulate than whites”.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:05 pmAgain, pointing out differences between races isn’t inherently racist, and calling people names when they do so just makes people want to avoid the subject entirely. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
Actually it is, because it’s anecdotal, stereotyping, and in fact the very basis of racism and bigotry. The reason you avoid the subject in real life, is because you are a bigot, and you get called on it.
There’s a difference between saying that “Blacks are inherently less articulate than whites†and “Blacks in general are less articulate than whitesâ€. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
Yeah, one is eugenics, the other is good old fashioned cracker bigotry and ignorance.
Thanks for continuing to prove what a bunch of racist bigots you are.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:14 pmWhat’s so racist about noting that the portion of the American population that can be considered “articulate†is pretty substantially white? Is it racist to note that white kids have better test scores than black kids too?
Comment by EvilCornbread
Idiocy and a complete lack of social history sense.
Why do you think that jewish, germans, russians, english, scottish people have contributed so much to science, technology and culture since the Industrial Revolution for example? Becuz they have the opportunity to educate themselves in some way. Now, do you think that sub-saharan boys have the same opportunity to attend school or they just are lazy people who enjoy spending most of their time finding something to eat in the garbage?
Kids who dont have to worry about food, paying rent, transportation to school, books and tuition fees, probably will do better in SCHOOL, than those that do have to WORRY. What an idiot you are. BTW, do you know which country has the highest percentage of genius kids? India.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:14 pmI am caucasian. I talked to another caucasian guy from Tennessee the other day, and could not understand a word he said. He was, in fact, very inarticulate. I have also spoken to other Southern white folks who I couldn’t understand on the phone. There are those white folks in New England states who are very difficult to understand for a native midwesterner like me. Therefore, Cornbread, your argument is wrongheaded, because you’re looking selectively at only one piece of the picture, which does not surprise me, based on my understanding of troll culture.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:19 pmIdiocy and a complete lack of social history sense.
If you’d take a moment to stop and think before kneejerking and clicking submit, you’d realize that you’re just supporting my point.
There are all sorts of social and economical reasons why white kids, in general, have higher test scores than black kids. That doesn’t make it not true. And it doesn’t make me a racist for mentioning it. Likewise for “articulateness”, which I’m fairly confident correlates strongly with educational performance.
Hell, if you support affirmative action, aren’t you inherently acknowledging that there are clear and well-defined differences or inequalities between the status of different races?
Yeah, one is eugenics, the other is good old fashioned cracker bigotry and ignorance.
Wait, do you honestly believe that there are just as many people who would generally be considered “articulate” that are black as white? I have a very hard time believing that — not because of any inherent deficiency in black people, but simply because of historical and continuing inequalities of opportunity. If you actually believe that’s true, I think the “ignorant” moniker would fit you far more than it would fit me.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:37 pm“The insensitivity/stupidity is astounding”
It is? I don’t get it. Please explain?
February 6th, 2007 at 5:42 pm“It’s so considerate of O’Reilly and Beck – super-polite, really – to admit how racist they are”
I didn’t get that and I watched O’Reilly last night. Where was he displaying anything racist?
February 6th, 2007 at 5:44 pmLikewise for “articulatenessâ€, which I’m fairly confident correlates strongly with educational performance.
That’s your anecdotal bigotry and stereotyping again. Verbal skills are often a factor of the person’s innate skills. Many highly articulate people are completely or nearly illiterate.
Many literate people like yourself, are seemingly incompetent to think, reason or ‘articulate’ a rational argument. See how that works, cracker?
Wait, do you honestly believe that there are just as many people who would generally be considered “articulate†that are black as white? Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
Making suppositions based on your own anecdotal experience is the very definition of stereotyping and bigotry.
I have a very hard time believing that — not because of any inherent deficiency in black people, but simply because of historical and continuing inequalities of opportunity.
Economic and Educational Opportunities don’t constitute or even relate to articulate speech. I refer you to exhibit A., President Bush, a graduate of both Harvard and Yale. Educated, but utterly inarticulate. Obama went to the same university – and he’s articulate.
If you actually believe that’s true, I think the “ignorant†moniker would fit you far more than it would fit me. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
That’s what you get for falsely believing you’re thinking about the issue. It’s also why you’re a bigot.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:48 pm#117: Therefore, Cornbread, your argument is wrongheaded, because you’re looking selectively at only one piece of the picture, which does not surprise me, based on my understanding of troll culture.
In fact, you’ll note that I’ve always made assertions in the general case. I’ve intentionally NOT been selective in my assertions. You, however, have selectively chosen two examples in an attempt to “disprove” my point, which logically doesn’t make any sense (two counterexamples isn’t sufficient to disprove a generalized assertion).
Of course there are white people who are inarticulate. Most are, in fact. Articulateness isn’t exactly a common trait.
However, just to be clear, I’m making the following assertion:
1. Articulateness tends to correlate to the affluent due to it being a more desired attribute (note the distributions of things like high school debate clubs).
2. White people are, in general, more affluent than black people.
Neither of those statements are particularly controversial, at least IMO.
Therefore white people are more likely to value attributes like articulateness, and you’ll see more articulate white people than articulate black people.
Again, I’m not asserting that this is because of any inherent flaw in black people, but, much like test scores, is probably due to socio-economic-related differences in opportunity.
PS – why is it that anyone that disagrees with someone considered a troll? Unlike you, I’ve made no personal attacks, I’ve remained emotionless, and been factual and logical. Disagreement does not equate with “trollhood”.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:53 pm#120,
Time to go back to your trailer, I think Nancy Grace is about to come on and I think her guest is the “cured” Rev Haggard. You surely don’t want to miss that.
Oh, and be sure to say “hello” to you father and your cousin when you see him.
Bye.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:53 pmIt is? I don’t get it. Please explain? Comment by michael — February 6, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
If only you had the capacity to learn, this would be possible.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:01 pmI didn’t get that and I watched O’Reilly last night. Where was he displaying anything racist? Comment by michael — February 6, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
Thanks for confirming your bigotry yet again.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:02 pmVerbal skills are often a factor of the person’s innate skills. Many highly articulate people are completely or nearly illiterate.
So just so we’re crystal clear, you’re saying that verbal skills (ie articulateness) are innate and therefore evenly distributed among all racial and socio economical classes, regardless of education level or opportunities for public speaking training
I’m saying that certain socioeconomic classes — more specifically, the affluent — provide better education and training in things like vocabulary and speachcraft, and therefore will result in better verbal skills and a correlation with more articulate people.
Is that pretty much accurate? Because that’s what I’m getting out of this. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Given those two opposing statements, I think the latter is pretty obviously more likely to be true. The simple fact is that there are virtually NO traits whatsoever that are truly evenly distributed among all races and socioeconomic classes. You can say I lack reason or am believing something with no evidence all you want, but I think you’re asserting something that is far FAR less likely to be true than I am. All the folks reading this thread can come to their own conclusions.
Oh, and for everyone’s daily dose of irony, let me just quote two things you said in the very same post:
Making suppositions based on your own anecdotal experience is the very definition of stereotyping and bigotry.
I refer you to exhibit A., President Bush, a graduate of both Harvard and Yale. Educated, but utterly inarticulate. Obama went to the same university – and he’s articulate.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
(zomg was I just racist there?)
February 6th, 2007 at 6:02 pmBeing articulate requires a strong grasp of language. I could be wrong, but I don’t think a person who is nearly illiterate, could be that articulate. The overall breadth of vocabulary would not be present. They may enunciate very well, but articulation has a very different meaning.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:05 pm1. Articulateness tends to correlate to the affluent due to it being a more desired attribute (note the distributions of things like high school debate clubs). Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
This is your anecdotal opinion. I offer GW and Paris Hilton to refute your anecdote as exhibit A.
2. White people are, in general, more affluent than black people.
Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Money doesn’t produce intellect, nor does attending school creating intellect or critical thinking. For exhibit B, you prove that nicely.
Neither of those statements are particularly controversial, at least IMO. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Of course it’s your opinion – that’s what bigotry is always based on.
Therefore white people are more likely to value attributes like articulateness, and you’ll see more articulate white people than articulate black people. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Articulate is used to describe someone that can express themselves clearly and effectively. It doesn’t mean the person who knows latin. Many would argue that plain speech (including the bad at it GW) is more articulate than a more educated person that beats around the bush, and talks in circles like michael.
Again, I’m not asserting that this is because of any inherent flaw in black people, but, much like test scores, is probably due to socio-economic-related differences in opportunity. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Or it could just be your ignorance of what the word articulate means, and your inherent bigotry and biases.
PS – why is it that anyone that disagrees with someone considered a troll? Unlike you, I’ve made no personal attacks, I’ve remained emotionless, and been factual and logical. Disagreement does not equate with “trollhoodâ€. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
You haven’t been factual or logical. You’ve been anecdotal, bigoted and produced completely stupid and fallacious arguments. That’s the summary description of a troll.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:10 pm#122,
Gee, I’m articulate, clean, not “affluent”, and not “white”. So, I’m an anomaly? I’m an aberration in your universe?
Therein lay your problem. You see, you already have expectations and generalizations (stereotypes) that you assign to “races”. That is what is called racism. You cannot see it because you refuse to acknowledge the foundation of your argument is racist.
Think of it this way, all men are created equal. Skin tone, spiritual beliefs, choice of love interest, and physical attributes have nothing to do with anything. Otherwise, the statement that “all men are created equal” is false. If that statement is false, then so is our Constitution, the bible, the Quran, and the Torah, since they are all based upon that premise.
I hope that helped.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:16 pm…It is pretty much like calling one as fattie, skinnie, shortie, etc, which in spanish words are like tender words to describe that person, almost never used as an insult. This is an non-issue in these countries.
Comment by Juan C — February 6, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
that whole comment – what a nice lesson you presented to us…
February 6th, 2007 at 6:25 pmthank you…
Juan,
Seems American’s self esteem and ego’s are too sensitive. At least in this day and age. Poeple go back and shoot others over a child’s snowball fight. Ususally folks get that defensive when they know deep down they are inadequate.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:32 pmStop labeling people as black and gay in your mind and just say “a person” and you wont have this problem. When I get my check cashed it is by a bank teller… not a black bank teller… not a women bank teller… not a gay women bank teller…
Stop believing in the “choosen people” and then you can start believing in the U.S. Constitution … ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:33 pmWhat O’Reilly said is actually a very good reason to have a black friend, getting to know someone will help not only reduce your won prejudice, but also help them reduce theirs. Bill missed the boat terribly on this. Reach out to others, help reduce the racial divide, don’t enlarge it.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:38 pmThis is your anecdotal opinion. I offer GW and Paris Hilton to refute your anecdote as exhibit A.
Two examples do not refute a generalization. And I’m the one that you say is not being logical? You’re failing logic 101 with statements like these.
Money doesn’t produce intellect, nor does attending school creating intellect or critical thinking.
Money doesn’t produce intellect directly, but having money opens opportunities in developing intellect and critical thinking that aren’t available to the poor or those who are unable to attend school.
Of course it’s your opinion – that’s what bigotry is always based on.
Until someone starts posting links to scientific studies, it’s all opinion, including everything that you’ve posted. The whole idea of debate is deciding who’s opinion makes more sense and is better backed up by supporting information.
You haven’t been factual or logical.
Feel free to point out a place where I was factually wrong, or have a logical inconsistency. Be specific.
I’ve already done so for you — your assertion that that articulateness is perfectly evenly distributed among all races and socio economic classes is pretty obviously not true. I note you didn’t respond to that particular portion of my post.
Gee, I’m articulate, clean, not “affluentâ€, and not “whiteâ€. So, I’m an anomaly? I’m an aberration in your universe?
Well, anyone who is articulate is an anomaly — there just aren’t very many truly articulate people out there, in my experience.
But statistically, yes, in today’s America, an articulate black person is more anomalous than an articulate white person. Do you really believe that, statistically, that’s not true?
Would it be racist to note that, on average, the top scorer on a test is less likely to be a black student than a white student?
Again, I’m talking as a whole. Of course there are individual counterexamples, as there are for any generalization. But counterexamples don’t invalidate the general observation.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:41 pmtroll appellation withdrawn, Tuber, with apology. Nonetheless, I disagree with your premise re: articulacy, and the examples I gave show how and why.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:44 pmCornbread, rather. I understand you are not a troll.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:45 pmI wonder how articulate intersex people are, and if that makes Barack more or less unique ….
February 6th, 2007 at 6:48 pm#134,
Again, I’m talking as a whole. Of course there are individual counterexamples, as there are for any generalization. But counterexamples don’t invalidate the general observation.
Actually, yes they do. That’s the whole point my ignorant (by choice, it seems) friend. Also, show me the statistics (and be aware that I have education and substantial experience in such) that you reference when you say:
But statistically, yes, in today’s America, an articulate black person is more anomalous than an articulate white person. Do you really believe that, statistically, that’s not true?
I need to see this factual information because otherwise you would be making a claim based upon your own biases and “feelings” and stating them as fact. Which, of course, would be quite a despicable thing to do and very much an act of desperation due to a weak and devoid of facts argument.
I see now that you do not want help, you only seek someone to tell you that it is okay to be racist. It is not.
I suggest that you read Mein Kampf. Although penned by an extremist, it is based upon the same principles that you are promoting.
Keep in mind that you telling me that I am an anomaly and aberration simply just by “being” is akin to you telling me that I have been misspelling and mispronouncing my own name for my entire life. Just as absurd.
February 6th, 2007 at 7:01 pm#135,
Huh?
February 6th, 2007 at 7:02 pmI wonder how articulate intersex people are, and if that makes Barack more or less unique ….
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
Bigot.
It has nothing to do with his skin color? How do you not get that? Really? Sheesh!
February 6th, 2007 at 7:18 pmComment by NOT Gregor Samsa — February 6, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
Shoo fly!
February 6th, 2007 at 7:20 pmI wonder how articulate intersex people are, and if that makes Barack more or less unique …. Comment by Jason M. Hendler — February 6, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
I wonder how articulate those people that suffer from severe aspbergers are, and if your complete stupidity makes you more or less unique.
Stupid crackers.
February 6th, 2007 at 7:22 pmNobody’s saying Biden (or anyone else) is a blatant racist for referring to an educated black person as “articulate.” But it does sound condescending when he uses “articulate” to describe an educated black person, and doesn’t use it to describe members of any other racial groups. After all, articulate simply means you can speak in full sentences, not that you are exceptionally smart or gifted. Though it may not have been intentional racism on Biden’s part, it’s nonetheless insulting, and reaks of a more subtle, ingrained racism.
As far as O’Reilly and Beck go, they are simply bad entertainment who pander to the lowest elements in society. Make no mistake people — they thrive on this kind of publicity. Only someone extremely inarticulate would actually take them seriously. Yes, I wish they would get off the air because of the neanderthals out there who get validation from them, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon. All you can do is enlighten people with facts and informed commentary.
February 6th, 2007 at 7:26 pmTwo examples do not refute a generalization. And I’m the one that you say is not being logical? You’re failing logic 101 with statements like these. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
Ah, a glimmer of intellect, you get so close, then fail like most conservatives. My very point was that anecdotal evidence is just that – anecdotal. My argument was that you are being completely stupid in your assumptions, without facts or methodology – just as I posted. Because your personal experience and bigotry informs you, but nothing more.
You ironically applied the correct logic to my post, but not to your own. Sigh – the republicans prove once again that they are incapable of reason.
Money doesn’t produce intellect directly, but having money opens opportunities in developing intellect and critical thinking that aren’t available to the poor or those who are unable to attend school. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
Schools don’t teach critical thinking for the most part, so this is a fallacious argument. Once again you prove that you can’t think critically.
Your ‘argument’, also forgets that the ’street’, ‘life’, ‘work’ and the pressures of surviving can just as effectively if not more effectively create critical thinking. Those undereducated minorities can see right past the scams you self professed cons can’t. Anecdotally you lose again.
Until someone starts posting links to scientific studies, it’s all opinion, including everything that you’ve posted. The whole idea of debate is deciding who’s opinion makes more sense and is better backed up by supporting information. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
Ah, the crux of racism! Racism is exactly that, opinion based on race. Thanks for criticizing your ‘opinion’.
Feel free to point out a place where I was factually wrong, or have a logical inconsistency. Be specific. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
Everywhere. You don’t appear to know what the word articulate means, you judge anecdotally without any ‘facts’ other than your opinions. Your logic is entirely inconsistent, because it’s your own judgement that you yourself are articulate because you’re white and educated. Both are false premises.
I’ve already done so for you — your assertion that that articulateness is perfectly evenly distributed among all races and socio economic classes is pretty obviously not true. I note you didn’t respond to that particular portion of my post. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
You don’t know it isn’t. As I tried to demonstrate, all you have is your own anecdotal PREJUDICES, and nothing more.
Well, anyone who is articulate is an anomaly — there just aren’t very many truly articulate people out there, in my experience.Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
How would someone as inarticulate as yourself know or judge this?
But statistically, yes, in today’s America, an articulate black person is more anomalous than an articulate white person. Do you really believe that, statistically, that’s not true?Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
And a lying bigoted republican that relies on racism, and anecdotal stereotyping is as common as a republican.
Again, I’m talking as a whole. Of course there are individual counterexamples, as there are for any generalization. But counterexamples don’t invalidate the general observation. Comment by EvilCornbread — February 6, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
An unscientific ‘general observation’ is the definition of a prejudice. Too bad someone like yourself who ‘claims’ to be educated is unaware of this basic premise. It explains why you’re such a bigot though.
February 6th, 2007 at 7:32 pmI am clean and articulate, and I am not even black, but I am a hypocrite that drops my religion, and Jesus’ teachings, as it suits me.
February 6th, 2007 at 8:05 pmComment by Jason M. Hendler
BORe belongs on the front cover of the national enquirer with a alien falafel probe firmly wedged in his despicable derrier.
February 6th, 2007 at 8:32 pmWould either of these two windbags like to host a “chat” about slavery? No. Because they, like most Americans, don’t know a damned thing about it. But they seem to know all about tiptoeing around Black folks….They are part of the problem and too self-enamored (surprise!) to even realize it.
February 6th, 2007 at 8:39 pmmichaelsconscience, I don’t know why you keep providing me with proof of what I stated last night about some of you not responding to posters with anything intelligent! Here’s a good example:
It is? I don’t get it. Please explain? Comment by michael — February 6, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
If only you had the capacity to learn, this would be possible.
Comment by MichaelsConscience — February 6, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
I asked for an explaination of why it was so obvious that O’Reilley and Beck were racists and you provided a really stupid response! You display almost hourly you inability to carry on a intelligent debate.
February 6th, 2007 at 8:42 pmBut counterexamples don’t invalidate the general observation.
Actually, yes they do.
No, they don’t. Here’s a simple example. Most dinner plates are round. In general, dinner plates are round. The fact that you happen to be able to point at a couple square dinner plates doesn’t change the fact that dinner plates, in general, are round.
Seriously, this is like logic 101. It’s not hard to grasp.
I need to see this factual information because otherwise you would be making a claim based upon your own biases and “feelings†and stating them as fact. Which, of course, would be quite a despicable thing to do and very much an act of desperation due to a weak and devoid of facts argument.
We’re debating something that’s inherently unprovable — it’s not like there’s a quantifiable metric for “articulateness” that you can measure and compare across different groups. Therefore we’re ALL (that includes you) stating opinions and attempting to back them up with logical arguments. If I’m asserting something that you believe to not be true, please point out where you blieve I’m wrong, and we can dig into it.
But simply attacking the fact that I’m…debating…rather than attacking my arguments themselves shows that you don’t have a leg to stand on. Debate the content of my posts, not the fact that I’m posting.
Keep in mind that you telling me that I am an anomaly and aberration simply just by “being†is akin to you telling me that I have been misspelling and mispronouncing my own name for my entire life.
Oh please, that’s just absurd. I’m a anomaly because I know C++. I’m an anomaly because no one in my family is divorced. I’m an anomaly because my eyes are both green and hazel. Being anomolous isn’t necessarily BAD, it’s just being different, or outside the expected value, in some respect.
Schools don’t teach critical thinking for the most part, so this is a fallacious argument.
Well, that’s your opinion. I think one of the most important thing that schools teach is critical thinking skills. Furthermore, some schools train students specifically in things like speech skills (ie. debate clubs) and vocabulary, and those schools are typically catering to the more affluent.
Your ‘argument’, also forgets that the ’street’, ‘life’, ‘work’ and the pressures of surviving can just as effectively if not more effectively create critical thinking.
But then why do metrics of critical thinking, like test scores, indicate that the more affluent and educated are better at critical thinking.
You claim that ’street’, ‘life’, and ‘work’ build those skills just as well as ‘education’…but the best evidence we have, testing for those skills, doesn’t support that.
Everywhere
I’ll repeat — please be specific. Quote something that I’ve said that you can demonstrate is factually wrong.
You don’t know it isn’t.
True, I don’t know it isn’t. But can you point at any other attributes, especially those that are more easily measurable, that are equally distributed? I doubt you can, and if not, then why would this particular trait be different? The onus on you is to demonstrate why this unique trait has perfect distribution when no others do.
And again, please don’t act like you’re stating facts and I’m stating opinions. Your opinion that it’s evenly distributed is every bit as much an opinion as my opinion that it’s not evenly distributed. Only my opinion is more likely to be accurate, based on all other evidence.
And a lying bigoted republican that relies on racism, and anecdotal stereotyping is as common as a republican.
…that’s not even a sentence. I ask a yes or no question, and that’s your response? I’m not sure how much more direct I can be.
Also, why would you assume I’m a Republican? Though I happen to disagree with you on this point, I can assure you I’m not a Republican.
February 6th, 2007 at 8:44 pmI asked for an explaination of why it was so obvious that O’Reilley and Beck were racists and you provided a really stupid response! Comment by michael — February 6, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
No, your question, and you are stupid.
You display almost hourly you inability to carry on a intelligent debate. Comment by michael — February 6, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
You display a completely constant inability to carry on an intelligent, or even grammatically correct debate. So much for that private school of yours! Your parents should get their money back!
February 6th, 2007 at 8:53 pmBut then why do metrics of critical thinking, like test scores, indicate that the more affluent and educated are better at critical thinking.
Thats funny. Ican take a educated person who is affluent and supposedly a critical thinker hand them a wrench and tell them to go fix a problem on this Airliner, with a manual in hand, and they cannot do it.
We send those people to go work in management, lol, because they are not capable of critical thinking. They are only capable of taking written tests and opinionating endlessly. (as seen here by Michael and Evilcornbread)
Airplanes need facts, not opinions, to make them fly. Your argument here, is pure drivel.
February 6th, 2007 at 8:54 pmhttp://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Republican_Values
some more ammo to fight the ‘rachel’
February 6th, 2007 at 8:55 pmhttp://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm
Speaking of Articulate.
February 6th, 2007 at 8:56 pmIn the words of motorist Rodney King, ” Can’t we just smoke some more crack”? Sorry, I’m taking a class in trolling, and we have certain uncomfortable assignments that test our willingness to spew hatred and exhibit stupidity. Oh no, no, I meant “Can’t we just get along”? I don’t make a very good troll…. Easy now
February 6th, 2007 at 9:01 pmHas anyone ever seen Cornbread and Uranus together? Just wondering…
February 6th, 2007 at 10:59 pmFunny, not only would I be afraid to have any friends like O’Rielly and Beck, I be embrrassed too.
February 6th, 2007 at 11:59 pmMan, O’Lielly and all of his chickenhawk pals like Hannity, Coulter, Kondrake, Kristol, Barnes, and Cheney to name a few, are afraid of their own shadows!
February 7th, 2007 at 10:15 amYou aren’t really that stupid are you? People like you are just as much the problem. You have no knowledge of history–or reality– and throw around a horrifying word like ‘KKK’ to label people are just don’t see things the way you do, or, yes, don’t “get it”, but that it’s not funny at all to compare conservative, dorky or annoying pundits to a group of murderers.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:22 amI have given some thought to the problem of Bush’s language as the following illustrates:
Speaking in Tongues by Phil Linehan
All those who in the U.S. would reside
to learn the language they must decide.
They have to be able to use the lingo
so that they sound just like a native Gringo.
To avoid the risk of being perplexed
they must learn to read a simple text.
The test will not be too demanding
just enough to avoid misunderstanding.
There is a question that one must ask.
Will all be forced to meet this task?
Might not some of the native born and bred
be obliged their privileged state to shed?
What will happen to their proud WASP President
whose language disqualifies him as a resident?
Will he be accused of criminal offences
for what he does to English tenses?
When charged will he try to cop a plea
and thus hope to avoid the third degree?
He complains that they him “misunderestimateâ€
and swears he’s learning to conjugate.
He reminds us that he was at Yale
and of their remedial classes he can avail.
Because, he says, “this is historic timesâ€
we should not be so concerned with rhymes.
He brags he’s “a master of low expectationsâ€
February 7th, 2007 at 10:57 amand is sure he’ll be forgiven his idiomatic aberrations.
He may even avoid a deportation
and continue to confound a befuddled nation.
This is the first time I’ve ever agreed with either of them…but they are right…White’s in America have no idea what is appropriate or inappropriate to say to Black Americans so we usually default to saying nothing. We are afraid that whatever we say will not be politically correct or taken the wrong way and labled as racist. And that is sad…because it totally closes the dialogue between us. I’m sure by just saying what I did in this comment I’ll end up bearing the brunt of accusations of being a racist and/or and idiot etc etc. but nothing could be further from the truth. If anything I’d love to see a society where everyone could openly communicate with eachother without fear of inadvertantly saying something wrong. I think that’s a problem with modern society in general…it’s not just a Black/White problem, people are generally afraid to interact with anyone nowadays…and that is sad.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:58 am“I don’t have a lot of African-American friends, and I think part of it is because African-Americans have more sense than to hang around with a racist slime like me.” –Glenn Beck
There. Fix the typo.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:58 amO’Reilly and Beck know that in their deepest darkest minds they are bigots. Their fear is that this will slip out at an inopprtune moment. They know they will be disgraced if this happens in public.
Their fear is rooted in the hypocrisy that they are not who they claim to be.
If you think in a bigotted fashion but don’t articulate it, you will sooner or later show your true colors.
O’Reilly and Beck have shown repeatedly that they are scum. Why worry about them?
You learn prejudice from your family and your peers.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:00 amI am an African American that has plenty of white friend and trust me, we have no problem with speaking to me about anything. The problem is that O’Reilly and Beck live so far outside of us everyday people, that they don’t realize that african americans are not offended by what Bidden said. I don’t know of one member of my community that was upset by his words. It’s the media that has made this in issue….not the african american community. Bidden didn’t say anything inappropriate….whats so ever. It’s sad that this has been blown so far out of proportion.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:07 amWhat O’Reilly does not want to talk about is that 5 US helicopters were shot down in Iraq over the past few weeks. What Beck does not want to cover is that he has a problem with race….African americans are not that sensetive….we have been through so much in our history….we have been called much worse…..What Joe Bidden said was correct Obama is clean….he is sharp and he is a credit to our race…..the human race.
My Canadian cable company just replaced CNN Headline with BBC World and I am ecstatic! The despicable Nancy Grace can be funny but Glenn Beck makes me want to kick in my TV. Let’s not forget his similarly brain damaged friend George Noory, who likes to reiterate Beck’s xenophobic views to the overnight “Coast To Coast A.M.” tinfoil-hat brigade.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:14 amWow, Bill O, white people are TERRIFIED!!! Oh save them all Jesus!
Who was terrified about being enslaved, being linched, having been robbed of civil liberties, being torched by the KKK, etc..!
I find it amusing to see a terrified white person. White people have historically been abusive aggressors, they are the bullys in the social/historical context of world events. And now they’re terrified?
I will assume Bill O to represent the majority of white people, because in fact, that is his viewing audience. Ignorant homophobic inbred hillbillies who care more about enforcing discrimination against gays, then whether our country invades another country and kills 600,000 of its people for the president’s own personal power lust.
Bill O is a sick man to begin with, but oh no, now he’s a terrified white guy. Give me a freakin break; this guy’s a bully, he’s bullied everyone he’s ever opposed in his life, and this is the guy that if his daughter brings home a black guy, he would go KKK on his ass.
I’m terrified!
February 7th, 2007 at 11:21 amKevin, I’m afraid that you cannot provide context that would excuse Glenn or Bill for this kind of racist crap. In addition, any wisdom you might have will be instantly discounted if you admit to others that you watch Bill O’Reilly.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:31 amForget Bill o’Reilly, forget the punditry, forget the word articulate. This whole non-issue is starting to bore me. What are Obama’s positions on immigration, Iraq, the WOT, the budget deficit, ad infinitum.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:33 amLet Faux, the wingnut bloggoshpere and the corporate press have their little “fashion discussion”. I want to know what this guy stands for and that he isn’t another Kerry or Hillary.
#149,
Yes, your generalizations are absurd. Because of your “rationalization through non-fact based generalization” methodology, any claim can be substantiated. That is what makes it so blatantly false.
You are speaking to a statistics professional, my dolt friend, and trying to put forth arguments that even a 1st year mathematics student would laugh at because of their foolishness. So, non-einstein, do you want to make even more of a fool of yourself and explain to me your new rules for statistics? And you never did provide the factual information that you implied to be referencing. Are you still working on that or did you think that by ignoring it that it would just go away. By the way, the world is not flat and the sun does not revolve around the earth and Iraq did not have WMDs.
The only person you delude when you apply generalizations such as you do and present them as fact or respectable opinions is yourself. And it is quite pathetic. Go off to the KKK rally and dwell with your kindred spirits. When and if you decide to be enlightened, first and foremost cast aside your generalizations. You also better toss your current opinions that you have through delusion labeled as “facts” because you have succeeded in revealing that they are all based upon a foundation of profound ignorance.
Good luck to you on that.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:36 amYou cannot be Republican and arituculate – that’s an oxymoron!
February 7th, 2007 at 11:37 amOLielly & Speck, two ignorant racists. Must emphasize “ignorant”.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:38 amYeah….that’s why Glen Pecker doesn’t have many black friends. Right!
February 7th, 2007 at 11:39 amI’M TERRIFIED OF BLACK PEOPLE AND WHAT TO SAY AROUND THEM PROBABLY BECAUSE EVERYTHING I WANT TO SAY AROUND THEM IS RACIST AND INSENSITIVE AS WAS INGRAINED IN ME THROUGH MY FAMILY, SCHOOLING AND SATAN.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:42 amWhite, middle class men have been down so long they don’t hardly know what up is anymore. Thank the good lord these two guys… Ack, I can’t even get snarky without getting queasy.
Come on, these two “culture warriors” are only interested in reeling in all the White Privilege slack let out over the last several decades. And thier appeal in this respect in strictly limited to likeminded little Napoleons. Maybe think of it as courting the Klan vote.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:55 amI sure hope that the African Americans posting on this website take notice of the fact that there are absolutely NO African Americans on the STAFF of this website. Interesting, huh? What’s wrong? Couldn’t they even find ONE who was articulate enough?
February 7th, 2007 at 11:56 amMy sole criteria for judging an African-American to be articulate or not is; Do they say, “I’m axing you a question or I’m asking you a question.”
Obama, who I’m not only going to vote for, I’m going to work on his campaign, will never say ‘axing’. Therefore: He’s articulate.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:19 pmMost white people I have encountered are not what I’d call “articulate.” As a person of color living and excelling in the dominant culture, I rarely encounter whites possessing the ability to write or speak at a commensurate level of my friends of color—when controlling for class and education. Here in the Midwest, almost every white I meet says “alls” as in “alls I’m saying,” regardless of their income or educational attainment. Rarely noticed or commented upon is this lack of mastery of their native tongue in educated white populations. These types of verbal gaffes are just absorbed as colloquialisms. As witnessed by the acceptance of Bush’s appallingly poor ability to present verbal repartee, absence of fluency and coherency are attributed to folksy accessibility. However, for a black to garner the same level of success, we are invariably required to demonstrate inordinate communications acumen, whether that is part of the soft skill set required professionally. For a black to be deemed worthy of sinecure must demonstrate articulateness, when whites rarely are held to the same standard.
Additionally, as a population with a strong oral tradition, fluently and coherently is just how many black folk talk. I would posit that when a white says a black person is “articulate,†that they are not really saying that we are able to speak with fluency and coherency—because many of us in the community far exceed that standard. When a white person demonstrating a fraction of my oral or writing chops proclaims “you’re so articulate†in wonder, I resent it. My reaction is not one of over sensitivity but because the person declaiming my skill is frequently inarticulate him or herself and feels entitled to judge my skills. Biden is evidence of that . . . he says the American people likes Obama for being “mainstream†and “articulate,†while muddling his point. And no one says “How ironic you aren’t articulate, maybe you aren’t qualified to be a candidate.†Someone who says “clean†to mean “free of baggage†is certainly obscuring his coherency.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:19 pmThere’s an unconscious cultural double standard that appears in every discussion like this. It’s based on a false assumption that all whites are racist, and a hyper-sensitivity to what they say about blacks, with a tendency to jump to the “racist” conclusion. Even a compliment is interpreted as racist, assuming it implies that other blacks are not so.
Try reversing the roles in the transcripts, where a black man says “he is terrified of saying the wrong thing.” None of the remarks then seem racist.
I must add one point that is never publicly spoken of, and that is the great racism that exists on the part of blacks. Yes, blacks are as racist as anybody. I grew up in a predominately black area, and as a white, was regularly verbally and physically assaulted for the crime of being a “honkey, cracker, etc.”
The anger in the responses of these comments seems to reflect an assumption by (blacks?) that all white people are racist, even if they are unconscious of it!
It seems to me that viewing a whole people as being the same is the very definition of racism. Seeing all white people as racist is racist!
The anger and blame black people hold toward white society is never spoken of, yet obvious even in public discourse. Perhaps it is this anger and hyper-sesitivity that makes whites uneasy in having open discussions with blacks.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:21 pmSo let me get this straight–O’Reilly and Beck are saying its not their fault that they are ignorant and insensitive, and it’s somehow the duty of Blacks to tolerate and sympathize with their lack of knowlege, experience, and sensitivity? This is textbook White Privilege.
I challenge Bill and Glenn to hire Hollywood’s best makeup artists to make them up as African Americans, and force them to live for a week IN THE SOUTH and then get back to us about being “terrified.” Have them go apply for a job, fill out a loan application, etc. There’s a reality show I’d watch.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:24 pm174
Yeah i thought the same about Michael Moore, Howard Dean, John Kerry,
But I have no doubts Mr. Two Americas John Edwards will have outstandingly diverse employment with his new 6 million dollar home… I surely hope they are union like Ms. Pelosi’s hotel staff.. oops they aren’t… i just checked.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:29 pmYes, I feel they are alone in their stupidity. You can say something stupid to your white friends and stick your foot in your mouth just as easily. This is a copout.
But, I feel that here lies the real problem. If more of us had black friends, we would understand their struggles more and not say such idiotic things nor would we want too.
I grew up in a primarily in white neighborhoods and schools. I made many black friends when I was in the military, but since then–I’ve rarely encountered blacks in my life except for one friend.
Most schools and neighborhoods now are multi-cultural. Where do these guys live and work under a rock?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:30 pmThe anger and blame black people hold toward white society is never spoken of, yet obvious even in public discourse. Perhaps it is this anger and hyper-sesitivity that makes whites uneasy in having open discussions with blacks.
Comment by Bob — February 7, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
–
No, Bob. It’s that you and many other white people are bigots.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:31 pmReading about 80% of this just proves Shelby Steele, John McWhorter, Thomas Sowell, and Juan Williams are absolutley right. Liberalism has literally established “white guilt” as a cross to bare for anyone of the caucasian persuasion. If you are a white heterosexual male and you have anything to say about society that can be deemed negative or what you think about certain societal dynamics, you are a racist, bigot, and or homophobe… It’s pathetic… the poles have flipped to where no you can use your “feelings” as being a “victim” as a power play to control thought and speech…
for a bunch of people who claim to want to “erase” racism, you all spend alot of time pointing it out in every situation and at the same time shut down any dialouge about it unless you agree with it… by dismissing with these shallow cliche mantras… One thing is for sure since it is “black” history month (thanks Jesse), I’d like to quote to figures in our history…
I am a Republican, a black, dyed in the wool Republican, and I never intend to belong to any other party than the party of freedom and progress.
Frederick Douglass
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.
Frederick Douglass
If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today.
Thomas Sowell
I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:36 pmHarriet Tubman
The anger and blame black people hold toward white society is never spoken of, yet obvious even in public discourse. Perhaps it is this anger and hyper-sesitivity that makes whites uneasy in having open discussions with blacks.
Comment by Bob — February 7, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
—-
Bob, that’s a very good discussion topic for you to have with all of your many, many black friends.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:36 pmSo in essense they’re saying black people are overly sensitive?
Either that they are saying they are overly INsensitive.
It’s a shame these people are exposed more to other cultures in America….its a damn shame
February 7th, 2007 at 12:37 pmThey’re just afraid of being exposed as the racists pig asses that they are. Add that to O’Lielly’s curriculum vitae of felafel-engendered sexual harrasment, yellow dog journalism and lack of integrity. Had you actually spent 5 minutes with an African American- be they on the street or in a university, YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING. O’reilly and co. are really Democrats because they are 100% JackAsses! ( apologies to the equine world )
February 7th, 2007 at 12:39 pmI’ve enjoyed this, people mainly from the U.S. arguing about others being articulate.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:40 pmWhat’s the word for that? Ironic?
If you are a white heterosexual male and you have anything to say about society that can be deemed negative or what you think about certain societal dynamics, you are a racist, bigot, and or homophobe… It’s pathetic…
— Joneser.
—
I agree, Joneser. Throughout history, heterosexual white males have always got the short end of the stock. Can’t vote. Kept as slaves. Lynched. Not allowed to play major league baseball. Forced to sit at the front of the bus. Forced to be CEOs and millionaires and Senators and Presidents of the United States.
What a litany of human rights violations. I’m shocked. Shocked
February 7th, 2007 at 12:43 pmThe GOPs Southern Strategy is a reason why a lot of blacks dont vote reThuglican. I also believe it’s a reason why the GOP is so intolerant and attracks bigoted people like Beck and OWrongly.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:47 pmUm….I’m pretty sure there might be other reasons why Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly don’t have “African American friends,” despite their implication that they’re turning away dozens of the non-lily-white every day who are just clamoring for their friendship.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:50 pmI agree, we should be pitied, because we’re such awkward morons. O’Reilly there is probably a pretty good representation of even the most well-intentioned out-of-touch white guys in the US.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:53 pmNo Mr. Watts…
February 7th, 2007 at 12:54 pmThat’s not what I am speaking upon… and to grab hold of something in terms of “two wrongs makes a right” makes no since. I didn’t know O’Reilly and Beck were over 400 years old?! Or maybe we keep acting like its 400 years ago.. who knows…
I guess i will look for my reperations now from the biggest perveyor of slavery… the Democrat party, the Arabs, and all those tribes that sold each other out.
Forget about that content of character thing Dr. King was talking about… how about my skin people!
Bob: I recommend that you read “The Rage of the Privileged Class,” by Ellis Cose. Or, Two Nations by Andrew Hacker. Or, Whitewashing Race: The Myth of a Colorblind Society” you may discover why blacks are angry and blame white society. As my white husband said recently, “I had no idea honey. I was always a liberal, but I really had no idea what you live with all the time.”
Diane, according to most recent census data, our neighborhoods and schools are increasingly more segregated with schools with the least kids of color getting the most money. In fact, NCLB was designed to exacerbate this problem, as schools that perform the best receive extra bonuses and schools that perform the worst are punished severely. Here in MN, kids at schools that don’t make annual yearly progress, the kids don’t get field trips and lose money for enrichment curriculum. The very populations who need the extra-engagement and enrichment are denied the extra support because of their deep poverty.
Maybe we aren’t “hyper sensitive,” but more able to see the inequality and disparities that we live with every day. And, maybe we are just finally really, really, really justifiably angry at the lie that America is a meritocracy.
In the black community, the rage we feel is frequently spoken of . . . what is not frequently spoken of in the white community are the policies and decisions made relative to urban redevelopment, hiring practices, standards, etc. In my social sphere, it is well known that to receive recognition as equal or valuable to the dominant culture community blacks have to demonstrate about double the expertise and intellectual ability of our white counterparts to get the same level of pay and recognition. I worry constantly about blacks who aren’t exceptional, because very often, unless you are willing to sell out, if you are mediocre you are pretty much screwed.
My son goes to an online school with a huge number of white fundamentalist children. Their parents don’t require them to learn science. Just don’t believe in it. Yet, continually, we hear about the achievement gap for kids of color. Do you hear about generations of white kids who are falling behind in science because of their parent’s religious beliefs? Why isn’t that viewed with the same alarm?
Because we have a two-standard society.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:01 pmI know exactly what they are talking about. When you spend most of your time at the country club telling black jokes, you worry that you’ll slip up in front of the “wrong type” and you know how prickly THEY can be.
If O’Really and Peck could stop THINKING like racists they wouldn’t be so afraid of talking like them.
Rocco!
February 7th, 2007 at 1:11 pmI think Glenn Beck doesnt have a lot of African-American friends, because he is a ignorant, arrogant buffoon.
O’Reilly isnt even worth commenting on.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:20 pmMaybe someday we’ll evolve into more enlightened beings whose eyeballs will not distinguish differences in skin melanin, but until that time we should focus on racism that is overt in the most active sense, not the casual, unintentional slights that are passive in nature.
To my fellow anxiety stricken white heterosexual males out there, it’s not about calling someone articulate. It’s about 30% of African American males being locked up at one time in their lives for mostly victimless crimes. It’s about racial profiling in airports and traffic stops. It’s about an unemployment rate THREE TIME the national average. It’s about crumbling schools and urban infrastructure, about the attack on government programs from affirmative action to small business loans to equal housing opportunities to the GI Bill.
One way to make amends is to let African Americans lynch, bomb, torture, enslave and discriminate against as many of us ‘honkies’ as we have them in the course of our history. They can start with David Duke and his ilk, the work their way up to the more benignly rascist such as Pat Buchanan. Perhaps then the score would be even and we can get down to the important stuff of discussing how we as a society live and address the very real inequalities suffered by those with higher melanin concentrations.
The battle over words like ‘articulate’ does nothing to address, and even diminishes, the efforts needed to achieve lasting equality and opportunity for all humans under the law.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:21 pmHey Artis: I’m black and I was offended for the reasons as stated above. I recognize that the black community is not monolithic so cannot speak for anyone else’s feelings on the subject.
It is also true that we frequently respond/react to instances like this based upon our own experiences.
Glad that this isn’t one of your pet peeves.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:23 pm192.
We set two standards for people with affirmative action everyday… and where has it helped us as blacks… we get placed accepted in a school in which we had no tools to learn in… and we fail… you now have a backlash from those who promoted it… case in point asians… it is coming to the point that they are becomeing “exceptions” why? aren’t they “victims” of descriminaiton as well… alot of times 1st generation or 2nd genration immigrants? The problem is deeper.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:31 pmIf standards are set by money explain washington D.C. a 60% black population.. which spends more per student than any education student (i believe about 12k per student) yet it has the worse rates?
And urban development? Its these same policies which “drive” us out by those who think the mean well… what is the majority of your property tax bill dedicated to? Government subsidized over priced education and other progrmas and facilities that are poorely accounted for or used… I live in Chicago.. my fiancee is a cop… she works in one of the worse neighborhoods…. they have all these state of the art facilities in the park district their, yet it is either vandalized and or under used… yet in her own neighborhood her own kids have these lousy facilities, that they use all the time…
The problem starts and mentality and accountability, black education was on the rise and illagitimacy was all time low before the 1960’s… what changed? We added all these “feel-good” “do something” policies… that to this day have improved nothing, yet they get more money… could you imagine running a business the way government runs things?
OK…THAT’S IT.
BECK – YOU ARE ONE SORRY-ASSED EXCUSE OF A HUMAN BEING.
O’REILLY – DITTO, DUDE.
STOP IT WITH THE PROFESSIONAL VICTIM CRAP, ALREADY…..WE GOT YOUR ‘NUMBER’.
Whoosy WhiteGuy Wimps = the professional ORGAN of the KKK.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:37 pmLooks like a mass media tactic to make us all scared of African Americans befor the presidencial race heats up. We are too scared cause we might be racist!?!
February 7th, 2007 at 1:39 pmSteve the Tuna: You rock! (Although I don’t advocate lynching anyone no matter how heinous. That is completely antithetical to my values)! And, you are correct in pointing out the issue of active racism, just as another poster above astutely pointed out that we shouldn’t be so concerned with the word “articulate,” but rather with the values, plans and policies Obama is articulating and how effective those ideas will be.
However, the whole “articulate” thing is tied to the incredible rates of unemployment, etc. I think that’s why it hits a nerve for so many of my highly accomplished black associates. We just get tired of having to jump so high all the time. We know that very often it is who you know and not what you know, unless you are melanin enhanced. And then, you have to know extensively more and demonstrate it, but also be humble too!
It just gets exhausting and infuriating to have to be so resilient and gracious.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:42 pm#197,
I can’t even understand what you are trying to say. You are a farce, obviously, as your intentional butchering of the English language indicates quite clearly.
So, you are appalled by affirmative action? Here’s the kicker there sporto, you don’t have to accept it. Your intent is to keep the black man down, that is obvious. It’s not going to work, though, since us “non-whites” are already rising way above you.
Dwell in your own ignorance and self loathing, but the rest of us choose not to visit that gutter so you will not be enjoying our company.
Bye now.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:45 pmStuCop wrote:
Here’s a hint, what would you say to an American?
Is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear Christopher Hitchens speak is that he is articulate? I have issues with Hitchens’ positions but I admire his verbal dexterity. So when you hear a similarly gifted person of color use language in an admirable manner, stop and think whether you would congratulate them on their skill if they were white. In fact, if you can find it listen to the rest of the O’Reilly interview where his guest (Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, Temple University) points out that given his credentials (professor of education, PhD from an Ivy League institution) you should expect him to be able to express himself well with language.
When the first thing someone can say in response to a person’s argument is how well stated the argument is, that’s an insult to the speaker because it expresses surprise at the ability to form an argument and leaves open the question whether one listened to the content of the argument at all. So to avoid confusion just apply the golden rule, if you wouldn’t do it to yourself, don’t do it to others either.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:51 pmLook they have the Congressional KKK installed and the Grand Dragon in place, so what are these IDIOTS on Fox and CNN babbling about?
Aren’t these the same Morons that attack the Good Congressioal Leader because he is a Muuslim aren’t these the same COWARDS that refused to go after the Clowns in West Virginia and Virginia, give me a break, these Racist Pigs have only one agenda divide confuse and keep dividing.
Anyone that real does socialize at a REAL American level interacts with blacks asians and spanish eastern europeans europeans etc….
These uneducated closested bigot are caught with their pants down talking through their butts as usual and now are trying to raise the fear agenda again, these pukes just never quit.
Remember way back when ,when the Leader of Ignorance is Bliss and I wholy in its Glory (o’rielly) stated he doesn’t have to report the news as he is a entertainer, guess what FOOL you don’t even to that and your Nimbasylic friend on CNN is just as bad offer confusion rather then truth slant to to your favor rather then report it as a disinterested party. Clowns, Goofs Morons one and all.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:52 pmHey Tuber?!
February 7th, 2007 at 2:00 pmspare the insults and try speaking to the argument… oh and FYI, I am black… oops… or am i to assume you just (gasp) stereotyped. But being that your attention span stopped at obsession of my “articulation,” thank you for disavowing what I wrote without reading what wrote. Now is that to say more about you or me? (wow) where again did i disrespect you? I hate when they make free speech a two way street cause it means someone like you has to look both ways before crossing.
197. I had the honor of sitting on Chancellor Young’s committee to examine affirmative action in the University of California system in the run-up to Prop 209. As a person of color, who did not use affirmative action to get into the honor’s program at UCLA, I was stunned at how mis-informed I was about affirmative action, as well as the importance and benefit to the whole community it served.
That the average white student in the UC system had access to far better services and materials than the average black. To whit, most white kids took a $2,000+ SAT Helper class, most didn’t have to work while going to school, most had their own computers, most went to schools that had on average 30 to 40 Advanced Academic Placements Classes where blacks in their cohort going to schools in the hood maybe had one and AAP classes give a substantial bump to your grade point average. I walked into the work believing that affirmative action was a huge negative. But then I actually looked at the tax policy, that in LA, with a 10% black population, we were helping to pay for the state university but were denied access. Meanwhile, there was no outcry about legacy kids who were admitted with lower scores, etc. and didn’t have the hardships. Or, kids from the country, or kids from the east coast. There are all sorts of lowering of standards to recruit a diverse population into the student body. When talking to professors, we learned about peer-to-peer engagement.
I walked instead of viewing affirmative action as this great leg up that was given blacks to a much different understanding. Every wonder why there is such a huge healthcare disparity? Part of it has to do with the lack of contact that many students have in medical school to other cultures, etc.
Also, that many lawfirms (I put may way through college as a systems administrator at a major law firm), medical practices, wouldn’t even look at interns, that didn’t come from what they called a top 5 or top 10 or top 20 school. Moreover, that an individual of color was (and I can’t remember the actual data on this) substantially more likely to go back into the community and serve that community than was their white counterpart, who most often sought the most financially rewarding outcome without thought to community benefit.
As a state institution it was the job of UCLA to help educate “the leaders of tomorrow.” And, it is in the best interest of the community to have a wide range of qualified professionals to serve all communities.
After getting rid of affirmative action, there was a large movement, barely covered in the media to ensure that so many asians weren’t accepted on campus, in the name of community parity, meaning that whites after helping to oust affirmative action, then went on to say that Asians were over-represented in the system. It was truly stunning.
I also believe you are right to point out that blacks were much more engaged in education, etc. until after the civil rights movement. But, then I think many just got tired of beating their heads against the wall. That again, unless you were truly exceptional you really weren’t ever to get over. I think a mass hopelessness set in. I fight against it every day, but it exhausts me too.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:06 pmI’ll make a confession. When I saw black women on TV, I couldn’t understand their beauty. Black men scared me.
In 1960, when I was 16 years old, and blacks were just becoming visible in the culture, when there was Diahann Carroll and Bill Cosby on TV, and blacks just played hipsters and dope dealers.
If it weren’t for the people who deliberately stir up this primitive fear among whites, it would be pretty much gone by now.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:12 pm#204,
Once again, you speak in the nonsensical. Your comment at #197 was an illogical rant that made no sense. My suspicion is that you are intentionally speaking poorly and unintelligently. Quite frankly, one who has such a lack of speaking and writing skills as you present yourself to have would probably not be able to operate a computer, let alone read the content of this site.
However, if you are in fact genuine, I will gladly offer my assistance in helping you to improve your grammatical and communication skills. Speaking clearly is not something to do to impress people, but rather it is the surest way to communicate your thoughts and ideas to others. And that, my friend, is what raises a community as well as the individual.
Being non-white, I have spent my entire life shattering the bigotry of low expectations. If you are not the farce that I believe you to be, then your low expectations of yourself are the greatest bigotry that you need to face.
Onward.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:14 pmAmerica is gone!
We are in AmeriKKKa!
February 7th, 2007 at 2:16 pmWell, women are also very sensitive to a lot of comments. I wonder if Bill O’Reilly is ‘terrified’ about talking to women also.
And those religious fundamentalists are even more sensitive about a great number of things. How the heck did Bill O’Reilly ever talk to those people?
February 7th, 2007 at 2:23 pmthanks thanks tuber for your help?!
intentional? lol ok… i’m on a blog… please send me my grade after your review. (amazing)
m!
205) your background is very interesting, though some of our experiences and backgrounds are different, I’m glad to know we care abou tthe same issue and want the same solution, just different approaches…i noticed you pointing to some interesting reading to another blogger…
have you ever read Thomas Sowell’s work or John McWhorter?
February 7th, 2007 at 2:30 pmSo, they’re upset they don’t get to make fun of black people without getting their asses kicked. Yes, this is the party of real men.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:40 pm206 . . . “If it weren’t for the people who deliberately stir up this primitive fear among whites, it would be pretty much be gone by now.”
Shame on us for stirring up primitive fear among whites. I mean it is so hard to tell what will do that. Is it walking down the alley at 9:00 p.m. in a neighborhood where we “don’t belong.” Is it speaking too poorly or speaking too well?
I’m with Tuber . . . we spend all of our lives striving for and living excellence and then I sit here and read someone say it’s my fault for stirring up fear among whites. And, there are so many things for which I might incite this fear . . . being too articulate, not being articulate enough, not living up to expectations, exceeding expectations, being in a neighborhood you believe I don’t belong, you unexpectedly encountering me in “my neighborhood,” me just walking down the street, breathing in and out, enjoying the day in my melanin enhanced skin.
Whites (I know that ALL whites don’t think, feel or act in any particular way) but am responding to the comment that somehow blacks are responsible for “white’s primitive fears.”
I think that those who hold primitive fears are those responsible for overcoming them. If they are indeed “primitive fears,” it means they don’t come from rational frontal lobe thoughts but most typically from your hypothalamus (the area in your brain responsible for the four “Fs” fleeing, feeding, fighting and reproduction). And, just as we may start when we hear a loud sound, once we can process the sound as not coming from a danger, car backfiring instead of a gunshot, our frontal lobe kicks in and slows down our heart, etc. If we become acquainted with things that are not dangerous, but that we fear in the primitive sense, then it is our obligation to retrain our responses to accurately reflect the actual threat level without placing the onus on me, who has no idea why you may or may not be afraid of my skin color.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:46 pmI’m surprised that you folks even know or care about O’Reilly and Beck or what they have to say on TV.
People actually WATCH them on tv?
Time washing dishes in an American soup kitchen would be a better use of your time!
Oh, that’s my not so humble opinion.
TV? O’Reilly and Beck? ugh…. Get off the sofa and go LIVE!
uh, pass me that stack of dirty dishes please
February 7th, 2007 at 2:49 pmNever in a million years would I have thought I’d be defending the likes of Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck but the discussions that took place on their programs are exactly the kinds of discussions, as squirm-inducing as they are, that need to happen if we ever hope to move beyond the race issue. For some reason, we cannot or just do not talk about race in America. And when someone finally does, they’re called racist. And sure, O’Reilly and Beck did sound kind of ignorant but I also think they spoke for a lot of frustrated white people who are genuinely uncomfortable trying to communicate with people who don’t look or sound like them. These conversations are never easy or necessarily pleasant but they are necessary.
BTW, I am an African American saying this.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:50 pmYes MJ,
February 7th, 2007 at 3:01 pmI agree, the truth is insensitive, even our own personal ones.
I’m sure O’Really’s favorite straw man Ludacris would let Bill hang with him sometime. Consume some Cristal, smoke a blunt. Show B. how to “get down” and “roll with it”.
February 7th, 2007 at 3:02 pmMJ, why do you suppose white people are uncomfortable talking to blacks? Here’s the thing: If white’s- most, some, many- would drop their “whiteness”, i.e. air of privledge, entitlement, superiority, and just some correct, there wouldn’t be a basis for being uncomfortable.
“As a historically constructed social formation, the notion of a “white race” appears as ideology, mirage, hoax, con-game, racket, swindle: an altogether malevolent piece of duplicity and horror. But for those who buy it and sell it, whiteness is what Richard Wright once called a powerful “psychological reality,” a commodity fetishized into a pattern of belief, custom, law’n'order. Millions of those who are deceived into thinking they are white are unhappy about it, but don’t quite know how to divest themselves of this debilitating delusion. How to quit being white—how to release the latent but repressed yearning to abandon the absurdity of whiteness and to become truly human at last—is one of the burning questions of the age.”
From the introduction to Surrealism: Revolution Against Whiteness. A special issue of Race Traitor.
February 7th, 2007 at 3:11 pmI’ve read both and happen to believe that their reasoning is falacious.
Also, you may want to read recent writings by Glenn Loury who was long a conservative and has recently rethought his positions. I happen to be a fan of Claude Steele, Shelby’s Twin brother.
If you are interested in some of the work I do in the world go to marnitastable.org. If you are ever in the twin cities (any of you on this blog) come to the table for a conversation. There is nothing so humanizing as breaking bread together.
I agree that most of us want the same things, healthy communities, etc., but that we frequently don’t agree on the route to get to this shared vision.
For instance, I find it deeply troubling that the very same people who are so concerned about affirmative action are in no way concerned by legacy and cronyism. So, you have people arguing for “meritocracy” (much like you have people arguing for unregulated markets) while at the same time blatantly rewarding of the unqualified is occurring. It only seems to draw great ire when it is blacks getting a few crumbs of the pie.
I’m being factual when I state that our current sitting president has been arrested three times for DWI, once with this 15 year old sister in the car, he has run two companies into bankruptcy, and was never a stellar student, yet there is little concern about his articulateness or his merit for the position he holds. He proudly declares himself anti-intellectual and this does not disqualify him from holding the most powerful position in the world.
This is true throughout our society, that who we know is way more important (that’s why my expertise is building social capital for under-resourced communities).
How do you quantify the difference between a student who had to work full time and got Bs, with a student who didn’t and gets As? Or the student whose parent works three full time minimum wage jobs and doesn’t have homework help with the student whose parent is a stay at home mom and does nothing but support the student?
Universities are allowed to look at life history of its student applicants. According to a recent peer-reviewed Wisconsin study, a black college grad applicant is less likely to get a job than a white highschool graduate with a drug conviction. And, according to a recently Illinois study of 200 businesses that resumes with black sounding names are 50% less likely to get an interview than a candidate with a white sounding name.
Because you seem interested in these topics I would recommend that you particularly read Whitewashing Race: The Myth of a Colorblind society.
Even our highway policy was designed to create loser’s and winners largely along racial lines.
February 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pmThanks
February 7th, 2007 at 3:21 pmM!
I will keep those views in mind.
that and the individuals you spoke of
February 7th, 2007 at 3:22 pmThis is just insane.
http://r2000.blogspot.com
February 7th, 2007 at 3:28 pmBeing involved in tha arts its been my great pleasure to meet and associate with many white people who have moved on beyond the stultifying construct of “being white”. No, I don’t mean they are as many white Liberals are in that, while well-meaning, they try to hard to “relate”. I am aware of Whitewashing Race, but haven’t read it. I’ll get there…
I recall the bit by Dave Chappell where he talks about being offered $50 million for his talents, and how when one is offered that kind of money they allow you to peek behind the curtain and see the real white people. To the many whites in his audience at that moment, he then said, you people out here, you just think you’re white.
February 7th, 2007 at 3:28 pmDon’t be shy fellas…..truth is you don’t have ANY friends.
February 7th, 2007 at 3:37 pmAs a european-american, i feel like we are the minority now, and are expected to behave in a different way compared to the the supposed “minorities”. Saying bad things about caucasians is okay, but don’t you dare say anything about any other race!
February 7th, 2007 at 3:40 pmComment by MJ — February 7, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
—————–
discussion is not the word appropriate to oLIElly or Dreck!
that is racial provocation and fearmongering. what happens in this forum is a better example of what you speak of.
rewind beck back to the beck confrontation with Ellison over the use of the Ku’ran. you’ll get a better example of the type of bigotry you seem to refer to a dialogue.
BTW, I’m black, too! Happy Black History Month!
February 7th, 2007 at 3:57 pmI will say that the world has become politically correct to the point that some people are afraid for fear of insensitivity.
February 7th, 2007 at 4:05 pmFor instance, employers never, ever want to be accused of firing someone for racial purposes. But there are many legal cases out there where employers are being sued for just this reason.
So I think O’Reilly and Beck [whom I don't like a bit] are speaking for some Americans who are afraid to offend people.
Some like Biden have already done that.
The second or third commenter (Anne) has it, folks. O’reilly and others are simply tone deaf, just like Biden is. What brains or sensitivity do you all have? Nothing! golly . . . . Denton
February 7th, 2007 at 4:35 pmIntrestingly enough, when Condi Rice came to speak at the UW Kane hall several years back, the local news, of course, covered the story. When interviewing students leaving the Hall after the lecture, 90% of the students asked, replied “she was articulate”.
February 7th, 2007 at 4:39 pmSo, what kind of white friends does beck and o’really have. Their statements says a lot about them.
February 7th, 2007 at 4:48 pmThe Blacks who made a big deal over Joe Biden’s comments are the ones to blame. Biden was only paying a compliment to Obama and if they don’t understand that then it is their problem ,nobody else’s. Geez call a guy clean and some think its a insult. Say he’s articulate and again some think it’s a insult. Give us a break ! If I insult you ,you will know it. I will use words that will definitely offend you because that’s exactly what I intended to do.
February 7th, 2007 at 5:14 pmThat’s typical O’reilly. Also, Glen Beck is a disgrace to a reputed news institution like CNN. It’s because of people like Glen Beck, Nancy Grace, and et.al. that I stopped watching the CNN(the American edition anyway). I still watch the CNN international editions that are broadcast from Asia. The American CNN is polluted by bigots and ignorants.
February 7th, 2007 at 5:28 pmENS: I know this is difficult to believe, but those of us offended have a valid and reasonable reason for being offended. Do you frequently refer to white leaders as “clean” and “articulate,” or do you expect those qualities to be part of your “leadership toolkit,” and set the bar higher (disregard the whole articulate thing if you voted for Bush)
Of course, I know it is also difficult to open your mind as to why it was an insult. Because the entitlement of judgment is so deep, it doesn’t even scratch your consciousness to realize that it is an insult.
I mean really . . . I’d hope that any candidate running for the presidency was articulate and clean. That seems the bare minimum you’d want in a person worthy of national leadership.
Whenever whites say that to me, I find it to be offensive. Just like when whites say “I don’t think of you as black,” and list out all the traits that have more to do with education and class than anything to do with my melanin content.
So, now you know. It’s an insult. If you continue to believe it is a compliment in direct opposition to qualified opinions, then you are intentionally being offensive.
Again, some do and some don’t view it as an insult. As a very articulate human, I can tell the difference between a genuine compliment and an insult. Biden’s was a total insult . . . just like his 7/11 comment relative to Indians a few years back. He is an inarticulate, entitled white guy, that when called upon his entitlement feigns shock and dismay. Speak coherently and we won’t confuse what you’ve got to say.
You could learn some cross-cultural competency, if you were open to it, by actually trying to understand why it’s so offensive. If you say something that is interpreted to be offensive unintentionally, then the proper response if it wasn’t intended to be offensive is . . . “wow, I never realized how offensive that was . . . I will stop engaging in said behavior, instead of “that’s their problem.”
February 7th, 2007 at 5:40 pmAfrican Americans need to get over slavery. It is time to assimilate into America. Stop trying to be different, just be Americans, nothing more, nothing less. I am a white person, and have been subjected to racism by black people. There is a double standard in America, and it is sickening.
February 7th, 2007 at 6:02 pmwhen will be all just start being members of the “human race”? God bless diversity!
February 7th, 2007 at 6:19 pm“African Americans need to get over slavery.”
I have not seen a reference on this thread to slavery, merely to bigoted behavior. What I have seen are numerous references and conversations about the difficulty communicating across race (class and culture).
It is time to assimilate into America. Stop trying to be different, just be Americans, nothing more, nothing less
Yikes . . . okay, my bigot bells are going off . . . in what post on this thread did anyone allude to “being different?” Who gets to set the standard for what it means to be an American? I believe I am entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not to be placed within a box for your comfort. We get to be diverse here in America. It is one of our definitional benefits. And, who isn’t “assimilating” into America . . . What does that have to do with anything we are discussing?
“I am a white person, and have been subjected to racism by black people.” So you clearly understand the pain and hurt racism causes. For some it makes them mean and closed to the “other,” for others more empathetic and able to walk a mile in another’s shoes.
“There is a double standard in America, and it is sickening.”
I’ve heard over and over on this thread about how victimized whites are by blacks and the double standard. I live in an almost white world and this entitlement and victimhood is carefully nutured by people like Glen Beck and Fox.
When I read comments like yours I get deeply hurt and I want to hate you, but that isn’t how I operate in the world. It is my job to educate and bring disparate people together. But, all parties have to want to be reciprocal in the exchange.
Get over it . . .is not about exchange and reciprocity, it is about shutting down the dialogue about very real issues that blacks faced not in some distant past, but are still confronting us today.
I’m over slavery, but I’m not over someone who says, I’m responsible for the primitive fear I inspire in a white person. Or someone who says “I need to assimilate,” because I found Beck’s and O’Reilly’s comments to be offensive (as I did Bidens).
February 7th, 2007 at 6:20 pmBill and Glenn don’t have many African Americans friends because the white pillow case hoods scare them off. Some African Americans, Mexican Americans, and (fill in the blank) Americans are too hyper-sensitive about white people’s comments. I say this as a Mexican-American.
But when people talk about other races you can tell in what context it is intended, especially the Neo-cons like Glenn, Bill and Rush. They make off hand remarks and then blame the liberals for being too politically correct when, at least to me, the intent is clear. If they were such “christians” like they like to profess they would avoid such comments all together. I think they should read their Bibles and stop thumping them so much.
February 7th, 2007 at 6:23 pmLet’s slow down a minute, Bill does have a point. I too feel sorry for the ’situation’ White Americans have gotten themselves (and every one else) into. This conundrum is solely the fault of a psycho-social economic construct created by the American White Race and all American Races suffer from its inherent fallacies. Unfortunately, Mr. O’reilly’s late recognition of the ‘problem’ and his pronounced ‘discomfort’ (with those of the darker race who have succeeded in spite of the fraudulent construct) generates more heat than it sheds light.
Perhaps he might do America a great service by using his media platform to generate a serious high caliber discussion that moves our country forward to solving this rift in our country. After all, our current plethora of candidates seem less than capable, and sound bites won’t do.
“O’REILLY: Now you got to feel sorry for us white folks here, because I’m telling you now I’m afraid to say anything. You know, you’re an articulate guy, doctor, but I’m never going to say that. You’re a smart guy. Is that bad if I say you’re a smart guy? … Yes, absolutely, instead of black and white Americans coming together, white Americans are terrified. They’re terrified. Now we can’t even say you’re articulate? We can’t even give you guys compliments because they may be taken as condescension?”
Snide double entendre aside, Mr. O’rielly might yet do some good in spite of himself. I’m counting on him. After all, it is a White Problem!
February 7th, 2007 at 7:09 pmwell, I usually hate the guy, but this time I agree
February 7th, 2007 at 7:32 pmwell, there it is folks, you can take it from o’reilly himself: it sucks to be white!
February 7th, 2007 at 8:28 pmThey offend millions of sensible white people just about every time they open their mouths… why should they suddenly care if they offend blacks too?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:54 pmThe only way to understand how these two guys minds work (Bill & Glenn) is to study proctology.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:01 amThe most pathetic factor in this story, is that
February 8th, 2007 at 1:32 amgrown so called intelligent human beings
even listen to the Hate Speak these mental
and spiritual degenerates spew on a daily
basis. It just proves that there are millions
of Americans that are beyond any redemption
of any kind. I for one have never watched
“Beck” the 1st time, and haven’t polluted
my brain with the LufaBoy, since the day we
invaded Iraq. One doesn’t need to drink
poison to know its lethal.
Wow. I never knew that it sucked so much to be a racist. Apparently Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck only worry about the consequences of their racism and not the fact that they are racist. Am I suppose to sympathize with that?
February 8th, 2007 at 2:24 amI must be a friggin’ genius for being able to speak with my wife, whose skin color is substantially darker than mine, eventhough I am a graduate with honors from the George Hamilton School of Tanning. The wife knows she is smart and articulate and she sure doesn’t need me to remind her. We certainly don’t let political correctness get in the way of a lively debate, either. But, if she ever calls me old again, the divorce is on!
February 8th, 2007 at 8:30 amWow, this thread has staying power. Group hug.
February 8th, 2007 at 9:50 amSticks and Stones may break my bones
but words will never hurt me….hmmmm
I think Politician’s should be made of tougher stuff (thick skin of any colour), Obama should do the correct thing to diffuse this situation and consider it a compliment, I mean lets consider the source of who said that word “articulate”…..:-)
Your politician’s are crybaby’s,sheesh you people should watch some Cspan or watch what takes place in the Houses of Parliament, you think throwing a word around like”articulate” is insulting…….grow up all of you…
February 8th, 2007 at 11:34 amAs a moderate conservative, many times I am in agreement with Beck and O’Reilly, but on this issue they are WAY off base. The premise is that they do not (or can not) have Black friends is based on a faulty perception. Establishing friendships and liaisons is difficult on many levels, notwithstanding race. Not all people of color look, act or think a like but if you look at Blacks as some kind of CLUB then your thought process is flawed. As a man of color, I may not associate with other Blacks for a whole host of reasons but there are some African-Americans that I CAN relate to…..Again, it says more about Beck and O’Reilly that they are fearful of saying something inappropriate so easily…..That is what is TRULY disturbing.
http://www.afronerd.com
February 8th, 2007 at 11:56 amConservatives Are Terrified!…
Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck are both terrified–terrified! But its not terrorists who are making them so anxious….
February 8th, 2007 at 2:03 pmHeh. Its a shame that more people don’t watch it, but this was already covered in the premiere episode of The Boondocks cartoon on [adult swim] when Huey was getting angry because the people at the Garden Party kept telling him how well he spoke.
^Quoted for truth.
Exactly. Its the difference between someone saying, “Blacks are generally better athletes than whites” and saying, “Whites are inherently poor athletes”.
Didn’t seem racist to me. *shrug*
February 8th, 2007 at 7:23 pmGeez!
February 9th, 2007 at 7:01 pmI hate O’Reilly, but…
When the Chicago Bears won the NFC championship, Byron Harlan, a black Chicago newscaster, stood outside Soldier Field asking people if they “love the black man”!!! (Black man being Lovie Smith). I bet if a white newscaster would have done it it would be considered RACISM! There are double standards here. A black man can say another black man is intelligent and articulate, but if you are white and say it — racist!
Come on people, Bush wasn’t suprised that O’Bama is black and articulate. He was suprised that O’Bama is a politician and articulate. As we know, the majority of them are not.
The fundamental truth is that Blacks in generalhave far less mental and physical capacity than Whites. This fact has not only been proven by lots of scientific studies but, what is even more convincing, backed up by the whole history of black people.
Indeed, Blacks have never distinguished themselves in what Western – in fact White! – civilization is all about: physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology, engineering (Blacks couldn’t even invent a wheel), etc. Also, unlike white people and, say, Hispanics, Blacks in general have less endurance due to certain genetic and physiological differences.
So there is a natural intellectual and physical wall between Blacks and Whites. And neither the “affirmative action,” nor any other preferential treatment will ever be able to raze this wall.
Black people sense the wall and many of them realize it is insurmountable (look, for example, at Africa!). What is then their usual reaction? Envy and hatred of Whites. All too often these feelings transform into escalating criminal activities and violent actions against white people, especially in such “liberal” countries as the USA which is weakened by never-ending concessions to Blacks.
What do these destructive actions against Whites demonstrate? The answer is clear: They demonstrate none other than brazen black racism!
What then should be the anticipated reaction of Whites? Of course hatred! Hatred for Blacks. In the past, the hatred did sometimes turn into kinds of decisive measures against Blacks. These days such actions are punishable so that the extreme dislike may only come out as some “offensive” but harmless words. But even such a mild response is labeled as “white racism” by the real Black racists.
We thus are witnessing a ridiculous situation.
There is no white racism. Nonetheless, almost all Black “activists” are furiously talking about it day in, day out and oftentimes are sinking to the name-calling of any prominent white person they happen to dislike, bar none.
On the other hand, there is dangerously growing black racism. Yet nobody on the “white” side is allowed to allude to this bigotry, let alone point the finger at it.
No wonder that, for instance, both Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly are afraid of discussing any black person and even mumbling a word of his appreciation (not disapproval!) since, as you might expect, it will be intentionally misinterpreted and spread all over the globe by the Black “activists” as continued “white racism” in America
Poor liberal America!
February 13th, 2007 at 7:23 amI was watching you last night regarding the blogs that Edwards has hired.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:27 amI was shocked that such language about Catholics is allowed even under free speech. It is discusting. What is this world coming to. They will give an account one day to God. Enjoy your show Bill, keep up the good work.
ps. is this was about Muslims you would hear a shout around the world.
Don’t we see that things are going from bad to worse? Of course we do! Next question: what should we do? There are two alternatives:
1. The choice we made several decades ago by taking a back seat and humbly waiting the “inevitable” of being thrown into the gutter by the fast-growing non-White population UNLESS
2. We wake up and stem the tide!
There are many ways to stand firm. So let’s discuss this problem of our survival and do whatever it takes and pay no heed at “political correctness.” Let’s keep in mind that our opponents fell strong only because they feel we are weak. So let’s get rid of all the chains in which we voluntarily entangled ourselves!
February 14th, 2007 at 6:49 pmBill and Glen the ignorant. Bill is afraid to give a person of color a compliment? WTF? Billy, African-Americans are offended when you call them articulate for the same reason you would be offended if someone complimented you for not pissing your pants. Figure it out.
Glen, Your afraid you might offend people of color if you hang around them? Why would that be? Figure it out.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:42 pmThat’s it! Ignore the issues and attack these guys instead. The problem is that you lefties get so buried into the political games that you’ll blindly support a bunch of flip-flopping vote chasers who have no convictions, no morals, no purpose other than their own; and in the process, you LOSE all credibility by supporting them. The same can be said for a lot of nuts on the right too. So to both of you, please continue to take shots at Bill and Glenn, whenever possible, because it only helps to showcase who actually is thinking about the issues our country faces and who are the cheapshot artists looking to entertain themselves.
February 24th, 2007 at 7:52 amYes, racism is racism. After exploring the blogs on this site, I see very little constructive, but rather numerous examples of people’s own unacknowledged bigotry. There are words of intolerance from the “religious” right, but then there’s the fact that two pundits can’t voice that they feel whites walk on egg shells without numerous bloggers calling them racist… or “idiots.” This simply proves their point.
Yes, Bill and Beck may surely have their own inner fears about their own racism. We all have, no matter what our race, because we are human and a product of our immediate culture that tends to circulate unfounded beliefs until they are exposed. If you are black and grew up in a predominately black neighborhood, think about what was said about whites to you. And the same goes for white communities, Hispanic communities, etc.
We need to rise above our racism by first acknowledging each other’s feelings and then addressing those feelings without letting our egos and defenses get in the way. Those name-callers who try to shut down the debate with cheap shots and intimidation rather than addressing the issue need to evaluate their own souls.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:08 pm