Gates and Pace Say Congressional Debate On Escalation Does Not Harm The Troops
Gates and Pace Say Congressional Debate On Escalation Does Not Harm The Troops
Conservatives have repeatedly tried to argue that opposition to President Bush’s escalation in Iraq undermines the troops. In January, Vice President Cheney said that a resolution opposing the Bush’s escalation would hurt the troops:
It won’t stop us, and it would be, I think, detrimental from the standpoint of the troops.
Rep. Duncan Hunter reiterated this talking point today, stating, “I do not think you can send a message that is going to raise the morale of the troops while at the same time sending a message that we don’t support the mission.” But in their testimony before the House Armed Services Committee today, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Peter Pace and Defense Secretary Robert Gates disputed these arguments.
Pace: As long as this Congress continues to do what it has done, which is to provide the resources for the mission, the dialogue will be the dialogue, and the troops will feel supported.
Gates: I think they’re [the troops are] sophisticated enough to understand that that’s what the debate’s really about.
Gates, apparently, has had a change of heart. On Jan. 26, he declared that any Iraq resolution opposing Bush’s escalation plan “certainly emboldens the enemy and our adversaries.”
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51 Responses to “Gates and Pace Say Congressional Debate On Escalation Does Not Harm The Troops”
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**snort**
February 7th, 2007 at 9:33 pmA mistrial was declared in the court-martial of Lt. Ehren Watada. link to msnbc.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:40 pmSo, six years into the Bush administration, five years after 9/11 and four years after the war started, the administration is still conducting on-the-job-training for its’ appointees. Fascinating… simply fascinating.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:42 pmare these guys gonna save us?… …uoy…
February 7th, 2007 at 9:47 pmvery good news for lt. watada… i asked TP for a thread yesterday…
February 7th, 2007 at 9:49 pmmaybe this amazing turn of events will warrent one…
No crap guys? Really. Glad to hear it.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:53 pmGee… I feel all warm and fuzzy inside, now. I had almost forgotten what it is like to feel safe, secure and morally uptight… I mean, upright. -heh-
February 7th, 2007 at 9:56 pmDon’t hold back, Clyde. :)
February 7th, 2007 at 10:22 pmclyde; ** snort** You should e-mail it to the white house, you can be on their shit-list just like me. I sent them one suggesting that the presidential seal be replace with the one of the flying chickenhawks-1st AWOL division.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:23 pmHey Uncle Ho, are you gonna sign up on facebook?
February 7th, 2007 at 10:30 pmSo their point is - as long as Congress keeps giving us the money, we don’t give a f’ck what they say.
Read ya loud and clear Generals.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:31 pmZooey; I don’t know, really hadn’t thought about it.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:31 pmThat’s not actually a change of heart (though I suppose it’s possible he HAS had a change of heart). The present question is “Will a resolution hurt the feelings of American troops?” and the prior question was (roughly, I had to translate “embolden” because I refuse to actually consider emboldenment a thing serious people should be talking about, it’s silly and lame) “Will a resolution provide psychological support for the insurgency?”
It’s entirely possible for something to help the morale of one side without affecting negatively the morale of the other side.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:36 pmUncle Ho, if you decide to sign up, let me know, ok?
February 7th, 2007 at 10:38 pmZooey; ok. one question though; any particular reason that I should?
February 7th, 2007 at 10:42 pmZooey; ok. one question though; any particular reason that I should?
Comment by Uncle_Ho
Did you see the thing a few threads below, saying TP has a page on facebook? Several of us have signed up, and it’s a way to communicate outside of TP. Clyde & ForTruth are on my friends list, so far.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:51 pmGot Elvis? please do not refer to Jackson as a geek, it is unfair to them.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:56 pmYours, Satori
Comment by Got Elvis?
Hilarious, roflmao
The current administration…..
Not funny at all.
We need to get the Democrats to start taking down this criminal administration, yesterday. Bush is already waaaay past Nixon’s list of crimes. WTF?? Are the Democrats going to ignore rule of law?
Laws have been broken by the Bush Administration!! Torturing people. They have admitted wiretaps without a warrant, and open ended wide sweeping open taps on the phones, internet connections and probably your bathrooms in the future at the rate its going.
Gonzales stating in front of congress, that habeus corpus does not apply to all citizens of the US. They let him walk out of congress with no repercussions? WTF?
It is sick that we as Americans are even accepting this at all.
Sick.
Do I think I need the approval of Gates to ok debate on the war ? ( actually he only said it was ok in Congress)
Hell, no.
Do something Congress, NOW, because you too can be replaced next election.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:10 pmWow: thoughtful dialogue isn’t fatal? Who knew?!?
February 7th, 2007 at 11:16 pmI’ve been re-reading Churchill’s Their Finest Hour recently and I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around the way democracy’s “leaders” have gone from being truly great men (FDR, Churchill) to what we have today: little men who stifle dissent under the guise of “democracy.”
After a few hours reading Churchill & looking at some contemporaneous reporting of that era, looking at “hard news” web sites & (mostly right-wing) political blogs, I am forcibly struck by the total witlessness of the “debates” we have these days.
I don’t think we have much of a chance at this point. I don’t mean in Iraq, I believe that sorry & lethal exercise in extreme hubris was lost in its very conception (war should be a last resort, and only in just cause — Iraq was neither). I mean — I fear that in my lifetime, I will see the end of a once-great country, ruined by the greed and stupidity of politicians and large corporations.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:58 pmAnd Bush is supporting the troops by sending more of them to Iraq without properly equipping them? Yeah, right.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:02 am#8 seems a bit timid for rachel. It knows its days are numbered here.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:03 am*start crying*
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Sorry! You just look so shifty in your picture. :)
YOU can invite me to be on your friends list, ya know.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:05 amAhh, FaceBook.
A hackers paradise.
Now I will know all that is P*E*R*S*O*N*A*L about my friends here at TP
I think I have written a few programs to reveal all on that site….ah, yes, here they are.
nyuk
nyuk
nyuk
Don`t go anywhere I wouldn`t. I will own your computer as I already do most TP posters.
Free access to all computers that you posters operate is my lifes goal.
Happy surfing!
Bwahahaha!!
February 8th, 2007 at 12:22 amDid anyone catch the Iraq reconstruction hearings today on C-SPAN? If you can find the video or catch the replay, you’ve got to see the performance by our favorite turd, Rep. Patrick McHenry. I guess he was upset that somebody dared to ask questions of the contractors and to try to find out where our money’s been going. He had an absolute hissy fit, batting his microphone around. The guy is nuts. Waxman handled it well, but he told McHenry that the only person in the room that was making the hearing into a partisan matter was McHenry and that there’s nothing partisan about holding contractors accountable for the money we pay them and the lives of the people they employ.
A few years ago, McHenry described being in Congress as similar to junior high school. I think he really believes he’s back in junior high, because he always seems to be acting like it. It’s time for that little f*ck to grow up.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:23 amRep. Patrick McHenry……..I guess he was upset that somebody dared to ask questions of the contractors and to try to find out where our money’s been going. He had an absolute hissy fit, batting his microphone around…. — chimpeach
me thinks he protests too much.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:33 amMake you wonder how much he has to hide…..
Comment Deleted.
February 8th, 2007 at 2:11 amI think its the generals job to keep the troops morale high and no troop should be cowered down by political rhetoric.
February 8th, 2007 at 2:14 amI think its the generals job to keep the troops morale high and no troop should be cowered down by political rhetoric.
Ah but is not that part of the game?
February 8th, 2007 at 2:24 amTell me from whence you hail Rajeev and of your desire.
February 8th, 2007 at 2:26 amEnough is enough! Supporting the troops means to save their lives and bring them back home to their families in one piece. Those who claim that supporting the troops is keeping them in Iraq to die, or to be maimed, are hypocrites and criminal bastards.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:55 amI see that SEIXON is back on TP threads again. I guess Karl Rove is getting desperate to have hired the Norwegian again > lol.
February 8th, 2007 at 4:13 amSay what you will. Gates is a breath of fresh air,
February 8th, 2007 at 4:35 amcompared to the former holder of his office. The
man actually pushed back on Lindsey Grahams
play on words in the hearings just held. So much
so it came as a shock. He certainly refused to
have words put in his mouth at any and every turn.
Give the man credit when its due. He isn’t painting
any false picture for anyone in the hearings, and
its clear he has his doubts about the direction
things are moving in Iraq, and the Middle East in
general. Very different from the total Lockstep
we have been fed up till now.
Comment by rachel ” the saint ” santo patricia halbert Got Elvis?
> Don`t go anywhere I wouldn`t. I will own your computer as I already do most TP posters.
> Free access to all computers that you posters operate is my lifes goal.
Either “6-year old clueless in need of spanking” or else “grown-up clueless with an inferiority complex”. Tiresome.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:01 amComment Deleted
February 8th, 2007 at 6:03 amclyde; ** snort** You should e-mail it to the white house, you can be on their shit-list just like me. I sent them one suggesting that the presidential seal be replace with the one of the flying chickenhawks-1st AWOL division.
Comment by Uncle_Ho
Where can I download that?
February 8th, 2007 at 6:07 amfirst of all, we DO support troops, MUCH more then the administration or ANYONE who thinks going against the generals advices and bringing escalation is a good idea
and second of all, WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE MISSION, becuase the mission changes every 20 minutes
our troops COMPLETED the mission A LONG TIME AGO, were sent to depose saddam, they were sent to find out if therer were wmd’s, AND THAT IS IT
they are NOYT a free Iraqi police force, they are NOT espcrts, they are NOT builders of schools, they are NOT an occupying force
what’s left is POLITICAL, it is NOT military
and ANYONE that thinks keeping our troops doing politician’s work are the people that are not supporting our troops
February 8th, 2007 at 7:15 amEl T.; I would post it here if I could, but my computer skills are limited. I had go back to my pictures where I have it downloaded myself, cuz I forgot where I found it originally, but I can tell you where to find what you are looking for. Google Texas chickenhawks AWOL division-it will take you to tribes and it’s right there in front of you. And I really did send a pic of it to the white house by e-mail suggesting that it replace the traditional presidential seal. So, I’m sure that I’m on the Bush/Cheney enemies list, and being watched by the FBI, CIA, NSA, ONI, SS, Pentagon, etc for my taunts, insults antiwar activities/protests, etc. to which I quote “BRING IT ON!!!!”
February 8th, 2007 at 7:29 amDiscussing the futility of a failed strategy and the support of our troops are two mutually exclusive concepts.
Why is that so difficult for people to understand?
February 8th, 2007 at 7:34 amMy take on this is that Gates and Pace were sent out there to assuage congress with their comments, this prolonging the debate. If the debate continues, nothing is mandated and the WH will continue to move troops and carriers into harms way.
These people are so evil. They must be stopped before it is to late for you and me. George Bush is much more dangerous to the security of Americans and our nation than all of the terrorists combined.
February 8th, 2007 at 8:17 amthere was no debate.
February 8th, 2007 at 8:44 amMANDATORY RENEWABLE ENERGY – THE ENERGY EVOLUTION –R11
In order to insure energy and economic independence as well as better economic growth without being blackmailed by foreign countries, our country, the United States of America’s Utilization of Energy sources must change.
“Energy drives our entire economy.” We must protect it. “Let’s face it, without energy the whole economy and economic society we have set up would come to a halt. So you want to have control over such an important resource that you need for your society and your economy.” The American way of life is not negotiable.
Our continued dependence on fossil fuels could and will lead to catastrophic consequences.
The federal, state and local government should implement a mandatory renewable energy installation program for residential and commercial property on new construction and remodeling projects with the use of energy efficient material, mechanical systems, appliances, lighting, etc. The source of energy must by renewable energy such as Solar-Photovoltaic, Geothermal, Wind, Biofuels, Ocean-Tidal, etc. including utilizing water from lakes, rivers and oceans to circulate in cooling towers to produce air conditioning and the utilization of proper landscaping to reduce energy consumption. (Sales tax on renewable energy products should be reduced or eliminated)
The implementation of mandatory renewable energy could be done on a gradual scale over the next 10 years. At the end of the 10 year period all construction and energy use in the structures throughout the United States must be 100% powered by renewable energy. (This can be done by amending building code)
In addition, the governments must impose laws, rules and regulations whereby the utility companies must comply with a fair “NET METERING†(the buying of excess generation from the consumer at market price), including the promotion of research and production of “renewable energy technology†with various long term incentives and grants. The various foundations in existence should be used to contribute to this cause.
A mandatory time table should also be established for the automobile industry to gradually produce an automobile powered by renewable energy. The American automobile industry is surely capable of accomplishing this task. As an inducement to buy hybrid automobiles (sales tax should be reduced or eliminated on American manufactured automobiles).
This is a way to expedite our energy independence and economic growth. (This will also create a substantial amount of new jobs). It will take maximum effort and a relentless pursuit of the private, commercial and industrial government sectors commitment to renewable energy – energy generation (wind, solar, hydro, biofuels, geothermal, energy storage (fuel cells, advance batteries), energy infrastructure (management, transmission) and energy efficiency (lighting, sensors, automation, conservation) (rainwater harvesting, water conservation) (energy and natural resources conservation) in order to achieve our energy independence.
“To succeed, you have to believe in something with such a passion that it becomes a reality.”
Jay Draiman, Energy Consultant
Northridge, CA. 91325
Feb. 8, 2007
P.S. I have a very deep belief in America’s capabilities. Within the next 10 years we can accomplish our energy independence, if we as a nation truly set our goals to accomplish this.
I happen to believe that we can do it. In another crisis–the one in 1942–President Franklin D. Roosevelt said this country would build 60,000 [50,000] military aircraft. By 1943, production in that program had reached 125,000 aircraft annually. They did it then. We can do it now.
The American people resilience and determination to retain the way of life is unconquerable and we as a nation will succeed in this endeavor of Energy Independence.
Solar energy is the source of all energy on the earth (excepting volcanic geothermal). Wind, wave and fossil fuels all get their energy from the sun. Fossil fuels are only a battery which will eventually run out. The sooner we can exploit all forms of Solar energy (cost effectively or not against dubiously cheap FFs) the better off we will all be. If the battery runs out first, the survivors will all be living like in the 18th century again.
Every new home built should come with a solar package. A 1.5 kW per bedroom is a good rule of thumb. The formula 1.5 X’s 5 hrs per day X’s 30 days will produce about 225 kWh per bedroom monthly. This peak production period will offset 17 to 2
4 cents per kWh with a potential of $160 per month or about $60,000 over the 30-year mortgage period for a three-bedroom home. It is economically feasible at the current energy price and the interest portion of the loan is deductible. Why not?
Title 24 has been mandated forcing developers to build energy efficient homes. Their bull-headedness put them in that position and now they see that Title 24 works with little added cost. Solar should also be mandated and if the developer designs a home that solar is impossible to do then they should pay an equivalent mitigation fee allowing others to put solar on in place of their negligence. (Installation should be paid “performance basedâ€)
Installation of renewable energy and its performance should be paid to the installer and manufacturer based on “performance based” (that means they are held accountable for the performance of the product - that includes the automobile industry). This will gain the trust and confidence of the end-user to proceed with such a project; it will also prove to the public that it is a viable avenue of energy conservation.
Installing renewable energy system on your home or business increases the value of the property and provides a marketing advantage.
Nations of the world should unite and join together in a cohesive effort to develop and implement MANDATORY RENEWABLE ENERGY for the sake of humankind and future generations.
Jay Draiman
February 8th, 2007 at 8:50 amNorthridge, CA 91325
Email: renewableenergy2@msn.com
A mistrial was declared in the court-martial of Lt. Ehren Watada. link to msnbc.
Comment by Uncle_Ho — February 7, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
Yes, a mistrial was declared, but a new trial is set to begin mid-March (tentatively).
Grounds for mistrial in this case are that the Lt did not realize he was signing a confession when he admitted to choosing not to deploy with his unit.
From the article.
Under questioning from Head, Watada said that he did not believe the agreement he had signed — in which he acknowledged that he had chosen not to follow orders and deploy with his unit to Iraq — was an admission of guilt. Indeed, Watada explained, he felt he had a right to argue in his defense that the war is illegal and that serving in it would cause him to participate in war crimes.
This guy can try to interpret the legality of a war, the legality of orders, and try to Interpret the Constitution and the Geneva Conventions, but does not realize he is signing a confession?
Please, give me a break.
February 8th, 2007 at 9:13 amThough just watch the line “…to provide the resources for the mission…” be hailed by Republican trash as reason to NOT stop funding the troops - even the new ones going in. Will Dems have the spine to fight back?
February 8th, 2007 at 9:51 amhacker bob, you seem to be confused.
Lt. Watada isn’t disputing that he refused follow orders to deploy. He’s disputing the legality of those orders. Therefore, he is correct when he maintains that the agreement he signed is not a ‘confession’.
The court-martial was doomed to be a mistrial anyway, with military judge Lt. Col. John Head refusing to allow almost all defense witnesses to take the stand, and ruling that Watada’s attorney, Eric Seitz, could not debate the legality of the Iraq war in court. The legality or illegality of the war is at the very heart of this case…the reason Lt. Watada refused to deploy in the first place. Disallowing any debate regarding the legality of the war completely obviates the point of having a trial.
February 8th, 2007 at 9:54 amGee willakers what a couple-o-champs.
February 8th, 2007 at 10:01 amtake that, President Bush! we’re tired of you trying to gain political points by bashing war opponents…
February 8th, 2007 at 11:23 amThis guy can try to interpret the legality of a war, the legality of orders, and try to Interpret the Constitution and the Geneva Conventions, but does not realize he is signing a confession?
Please, give me a break. Comment by hacker bob — February 8, 2007 @ 9:13 am
Actually that’s exactly what soldiers are supposed to do. As the Nuremberg trials laid out.
The legality of the war is in question, by minds much rational than yours.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:05 pmOf course it dosen’t but the republicans saying that the Democrats want “cut and run” hurts the troops because there are thousands of men and women over there who are Democrats. Maybe these no good republican chicken hawk should give that some thought.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:27 pmIf MASTER-Gates and PETTY-Pace think the surge won’t harm our troops, then I am Napoleon and I want to LICK THE HOLE OF FRANCE! What a pair of maroons…but then, they are the Charlie McCarthy and Mortimer Snerd of CHIMPya and Torticola Cheney, so why am I NOT surprised at their utter disregard of the American Fighting Men and Women who WILL DIE MISERABLY because of their FALSE PRIDE and MANIAC IDIOCY?
February 8th, 2007 at 4:20 pmI’ve noticed stirrings in the anti war community of a us tax boycott, and I wonder what kind of impact that would have.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:29 am