Exclusive: SEIU, CAP, Wal-Mart, AT&T Form Coalition To Tackle Health Care Crisis
Exclusive: SEIU, CAP, Wal-Mart, AT&T Form Coalition To Tackle Health Care Crisis
Nearly 47 million Americans lack health insurance. Health care premiums have jumped 87 percent over the last five years. As Americans struggle to afford coverage and companies reel at its costs, the need for guaranteed affordable health care for all is clear.
This morning, AT&T, Wal-Mart, the Service Employees International Union, the Center for American Progress, and a host of other businesses and non-profit organizations will announce a new campaign to tackle this health care crisis.
The unusual partnership, called “Better Health Care Together,” is motivated around four organizing principles:
1) We believe every person in America must have quality, affordable health insurance coverage;
2) We believe individuals have a responsibility to maintain and protect their health;
3) We believe that America must dramatically improve the value it receives for every health care dollar; and
4) We believe that businesses, governments, and individuals all should contribute to managing and financing a new American health care system.
Better Health Care Together plans to recruit business, labor and civic leaders committed to making health care reform a reality; enlist support for the principles from national, state and local elected officials, policymakers, candidates and opinion leaders; and persuade workers and customers that the current health care system needs to be reformed.
Wal-Mart CEO Lee Scott said, “By following this campaign’s common sense principles, we believe America can have high quality, affordable and accessible health care by 2012.” SEIU’s Andy Stern added, “We need fundamental change, and it is going to take new thinking, leadership, new partnerships, some risk taking, and compromising to make it happen.”
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Without a move to single payer health insurance, whatever they try will probably fail.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:47 amVerbalkint,
Correct. As long as health care is delivered under a for-profit system, it will be a crapper. Greed needs to be taken out of the healthcare equation.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:50 amExactly, why wait for the GOP to kick the can down K street?
February 7th, 2007 at 10:50 amTalk about sleeping with the enemy.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:53 amIf Wal Mart is involved you can bet there will be some screwing of the average worker. Wal Mart is the poster child for greedy, crooked, unpatriotic corporate whores. As a former Wal Mart employee I can testify from personal experience about how they treat their employees, ah excuse me, associates. Wal Mart sucks.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:54 amwhat a load of crap
we, the people, demand universal health care for all citizens, free of charge
screw anyone that says otherwise, because they are profiting by others misery. This is shameful that you would bring it up when the people of this country are ready to vote for free universal care.
unbelievable, absolutely unreal that you would suggest otherwise
February 7th, 2007 at 10:54 amEver been to a hospital in England? How long would you be willing to wait for heart surgery in Canada? Hmmmm……I didn’t think so. Here’s a suggestion: People in the US could volunteer to pay the insurance premiums for the uninsured. The sweeping numbers of progressives and the huge numbers of the compassionate might be able to effect a health care breakthrough.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:56 amAin’t grassroots pressure grand!
February 7th, 2007 at 10:56 amOnce again Walmart proves to be one of the most caring and sensitive business’ in America. Good for them once again. Nothing like seeing the Lefties decide to work with Walmart instead of protest.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:57 amComment by valiant venus
Hopfully you will be able to afford your hospital stay when your insides rot from that crank, and lack of food.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:58 amThe sweeping numbers of progressives and the huge numbers of the compassionate might be able to effect a health care breakthrough.
Comment by valiant venus
Have a cookie, Hagette.
You can throw it up later.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:58 amI’m all for better health care, provided that they don’t raise my taxes one cent.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:01 am“Correct. As long as health care is delivered under a for-profit system, it will be a crapper. Greed needs to be taken out of the healthcare equation.”
yes.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:01 amThis must be unprecedented, how much the Bush government is letting down the country. First major corporations enact their own major green projects without government pressure because they realize the seriousness of climate change, now they are a major part of trying to fix health care in the US (likely because they see a reduction in profits with greater employee absenteeism). Wow.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:02 amI will gladly pay, through my taxes, the insurance premiums for everyone in the United States.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:03 amIn exchange, I wish to be allowed to refuse to pay, through my taxes, for unarmed drone aircraft, cruise missiles, depleted uranium ordnance, and hunting and fishing vacations for Dick Chainee.
#5 Walmart is also all about externalizing costs. Companies and unions who aren’t in the insurance business would do well to look at single-payer, because right now, companies choose to bear exaggerated health-care costs for their workers, or externalize them on society.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:04 amEver been to a hospital in England?
Comment by valiant mighty venus aphrodite — February 7, 2007 @ 10:56 am
No. Have you? Severe dehydration due to anorexia, p’haps?
People in the US could volunteer to pay the insurance premiums for the uninsured.
Yes, it’s called charity. Some of us donate a portion of our paycheck to certain charities that help the poor (the uninsured). Try it some time, if your pseudo-christianity can allow it.
The sweeping numbers of progressives and the huge numbers of the compassionate might be able to effect a health care breakthrough.
Yes, I think that will be a nice, pleasent surprise come 2008
Mighty, isn’t a tad bit early on the west coast to be posting? don’t you have job?
February 7th, 2007 at 11:07 am22 years and lonely. How sad.
Wait, there’s a certain 39 year old Floridian who’s just dying to meetcha.
Maybe you could hook up on MySpace!
#14 Actually, This is how conservatism works. Let the free market decide how important an issue really is. Bush didn’t/doesn’t need to enact all these BS laws because we the people are doing it for ourselves. This is how it should be!
February 7th, 2007 at 11:08 amOkay, time to start teaching V.V. a lesson. Per capita spending on health care in the UK is only 40% of what is spent in the U.S. Furthermore, the long hospital waits there are comparable to what happens in many urban hospitals in the U.S.
Now listen up, ignoramus: it is a FACT that the rest of the developing world spends on average only half what we spend in the U.S. per capita on health care. It is also a FACT that we deliver quantifiably worse health care in the U.S. by almost any measure.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:09 amIs there a web site for this partnership with more information? I’d like to get involved with what looks like a good first step toward better health care in this country. No its not going to be perfect, but its at least more of an effort than we can certainly expect from this administration.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:11 amWal-Mart is part of the problem, so this is just a PR stunt!
February 7th, 2007 at 11:11 amFor Truth and Zoooey, Thank you! No substantive argument? Why am I not surprised. You both demonstrate the intellectual incapability of too many progressives. Thanks for playing!
February 7th, 2007 at 11:11 amYes! Me too! I would rather pay to heal than to destroy.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:13 amLet the free market decide how important an issue really is.
The market is a tool, not a god. The right’s worship of it is exceedingly unseemly – especially when it’s demonstrable that the market 1) is a creation of government in the first place, and 2) often falls apart.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:14 amConsidering that one of the reasons why Wal-Mart tends to employ people part-time rather than full-time is so that they aren’t obligated to provide health insurance, this involvement on their part seems at least a little hypocritical…
February 7th, 2007 at 11:16 amI am surprised that U.S. corporations haven’t demanded a European-style single payer system. European corporations love their system, and would never give it up for our system. It gives them a competitive advantage that offsets some of the competitive disadvantages they face (stronger unions, safer workplaces, etc.). And their workers are healthier and happier for it, which might explain why France, for example, has the most productive workers in the world. There are a myriad of benefits from separating health insurance from employment. Here in the U.S., companies try to keep the head count as low as possible because the costs of benefits per employee are largely fixed. When business is up, companies do everything possible to avoid hiring more workers, instead forcing the current employees to work large amounts of overtime. Few workers like this one bit.
My only supposition for why U.S. corporations aren’t clamoring for a single payer system is that many of our corporate leaders are blinded by their capitalist ideology, or belong to the health care industry where they can thieve away to their heart’s content.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:17 am“How long would you be willing to wait for heart surgery in Canada?”
Well, it depends on the urgency. If you have a heart attack and are taken to a hospital, any hospital in Canada, you will have immediate care – no waiting. Try that in the US without insurance. I would say valiant try but alas Venus must have her own insurance.
I had problem a while back were I had a growth in an awkward location. I went to my family doctor monday morning at 9 am. She sent me to emergency with a note. At 10 am I had a surgeon have a look – he was astonished that I wasn’t in great pain. At noon I was off to surgery. At 7 pm I woke up to see my wife. At 9 am the next day I was off to home and a couple of days of – “Wow, what just happened.” IMMEDIATE CARE WHEN TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. NO WAITING. NO PAYMENTS AFTERWARDS. NO ONE CARED WHO I WAS, WHAT INSURANCE I HAD OR HOW POOR I WAS. UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE ROCKS!
February 7th, 2007 at 11:19 amThis is how conservatism works. Let the free market decide how important an issue really is.
Comment by Roger_Roger — February 7, 2007 @ 11:08 am
RR, please read my post #19, then tell me why it is good that the U.S. spending is double that in the rest of the developed world, yet produces demonstrably worse health care delivery to its population.
You know, Roger, if you think about it, your observation and mine together make a pretty damning case against capitalism, wouldn’t you say?
February 7th, 2007 at 11:20 amWhy does Wal-Mart use the date 2012 like Sen. Edwards has been advocating? Sounds suspicious to me. Could it be they use that date to try to placate Americans, then when that year arrives we are given nothing?! Universal Healthcare must begin after Bush is removed from the presidency. Screw the big corporations like Wal-Mart.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:21 amDear Verbal – Maybe the UK should spend a bit more on disinfectant. While visiting an insured US friend hospitalized in one of their “better” hospitals, I was apalled. I do not want you, or anyone else determining my health care access.
As for long waits in urban hospitals – you want EVERYONE to “share” the same misery, right? BTW, which political mindset has been running, and ruining, most large urban areas in the US for decades?
It’s been fun.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:22 amEver been to a hospital in England?
Comment by valiant mighty venus aphrodite — February 7, 2007 @ 10:56 am
No, but I’ve been to a doctor while visiting there. I waited for less time than I’ve waited in most offices here at home. And it didn’t cost me anything.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:23 amDear Yikes, Good for you!! Hope your “awkward location” is healing. My great aunt in Victoria BC said it started out as a GREAT idea – and now the system SUCKS.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:24 am#6 Oldtree,
Please elaborate on your definition of “free”. Other than the air we breathe, sunshine, and the cold I’m getting over; not very much in this world is “free”. Someone has to pay for goods and services whether it is you or someone else.
Also please answer the following.
Who or what entity do you believe should pay for your healthcare?
February 7th, 2007 at 11:25 amWhy do you deserve “free” healthcare?
What will your contribution be to society to warrant this expensive governmental largesse?
We talked about this in my law class. It’s Wal-Mart’s attempt to raise the cost for their competitors (read: mom and pop stores). Wal-Mart will be able to saddle the burden, but the mom and pops wont, cutting into their profits and putting them out of business even quicker.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:28 amThis is a Trojan Horse. It’s all about privatizing Health Care….making that more palatable to Americans. I don’t buy it. Next it’s bye bye to Social Security.
If we take them up on their “offer” we give away our power. Health Care should NOT be “solved” by the private sector. It is not trustworthy……..we’ve seen what the private sector ultimately does time and time again.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:30 amWhy is Walm-Mart getting involved in this? Haven’t they done enough damage?
February 7th, 2007 at 11:31 amMore of the same Corporate BS – Wal Mart has taxpayers foot the bill for their employees coverage. Shame on CAP!
February 7th, 2007 at 11:31 amMaybe the UK should spend a bit more on disinfectant. While visiting an insured US friend hospitalized in one of their “better†hospitals, I was apalled.
Comment by valiant aphrodite & mighty venus — February 7, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Yeahhh, like that actually happened. Your track record has been proven to be lacking in truths (facts), right mighty lawyeress?
February 7th, 2007 at 11:32 amrun along, little one, and please, for the luv of gawd, get a value meal at Wendys…ASAP!
For Truth and Zoooey, Thank you! No substantive argument? Why am I not surprised. You both demonstrate the intellectual incapability of too many progressives. Thanks for playing!
Comment by valiant venus
That was an argument you put up at #7? No dear, that was an attempt to derail the thread with your pathetic inane rantings. Please try to learn the difference.
Have another cigarette…
February 7th, 2007 at 11:37 amIt is really creepy that you guys keep demanding S o c i a l i s m.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:41 amMighty, isn’t a tad bit early on the west coast to be posting?
Comment by DRxJ — February 7, 2007 @ 11:07 am
Actually, she was out trolling the bars until closing last night, and hasn’t dragged her corpse to bed yet.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:41 amvenus and roger’s handlers must be really concerned about this issue, to have them here flailing away with their false choices and strawmen
February 7th, 2007 at 11:42 am“Dear Yikes, Good for you!! Hope your “awkward location†is healing. My great aunt in Victoria BC said it started out as a GREAT idea – and now the system SUCKS.”
Valiant, I think the key point here is that if you have any life threatening condition, you are going to get the care you need regardless of who you are and you are not going to have to mortgage your house to pay for it. No doubt that there are problems with our system but I’d rather have our problems than those in the US. I know part of the problem is the cost of equipment keeps going up and also bureaucracy eats up a lot of cash.
My ‘awkward location’ will be susceptible to reoccurance, but with proper care it will be fine, thanks.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:44 amIf I’ve learned anything the past 6 years, it’s to recognize a pre-emptive strike when I see one.
If I am reading my latest AARP Bulletin correctly, that organization is part of this coalition. Quoting from the Bulletin: “The over-50 voters form the battleground in the looming 2008 national election because they cast the majority of votes in the last election. They are impatient—and independent. No group of voters shifted their political support from Repubs to Dems more sharply last Nov than did the 50-plus voters. That means that candidates will be forced to deal with their concerns…”
Further on in the Bulletin is a poll: OPTIONS FOR EXPANDING HEALTH CARE COVERAGE: (which do you strongly favor?)
1. Individual tax break for insurance expenses….56%
2. Business tax breaks for covering employees’ health costs…48%
3. Mandated business coverage for employees…46%
4. Expansion of Medicare/Medicaid to cover everyone….44%
5. Individual option to subscribe to existing govt employee plan.40%
6. Individual option to subscribe to Medicare/Medicaid program..38%
7. Mandatory enrollment of ALL citizens…36%
Poll completed by over-50 voters.
Well.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:45 amA couple of years ago my wife, aunt and I were on a trip to Paris and London.
While in Paris, my aunt ended up with a ruptured eardrum. All of the care that she received was as good as, if not better than, the care she would have gotten in the US. Waits were non-existant. One doctor actually came to our hotel to check her out! Costs were $200.00 total, to see two different doctors. Her medications came out to $40.00. My guess is that they would have been over $200.00 here in the United States. (That’s where I saw the biggest difference.)
As far as hospitals go, does anyone really think that ALL hospitals in the US are equal in terms of quality and cleanliness? Try going to a county hospital some time and then talk to me about how bad it is elsewhere.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:46 amI lived in Italy where health care is provided to any one who walks in the door, the wait does tend to be a little longer (than the shitty for profit health care in the U.S.), but you get what you need. They have private health care providers as well (that the filthy rich tend to go to).
I don’t understand how someone could argue in favor of the current health care situation in the U.S., it just baffles me; you so many people actaully listening to republicans with their ridiculous talking points “more taxes” ” less govt” “the individual would have no choices”, bla bla bla. sad.
the idea of funding national not for profit health care system is not hard; unless of course you think spending half a trillion dollars (per year) on the war machine is sane
(and by the way V.V., zooey went to work; where are you sad old woman?)
February 7th, 2007 at 11:49 amThese people aren’t doing this because they’re caring, humanistic corporations. They have a greedy little whazzit up thier sleeve; otherwise, they would have done this already with no prompting.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:49 amtest
February 7th, 2007 at 11:57 amsorry about the repeat posting, there is something funny going on with the thread
February 7th, 2007 at 12:00 pmi’m a member of SEIU; it is a sad excuse for a union. Our union contract actually states that the union has to step in to end a strike; it’s called a no strike clause; pitiful. ANd seeing this posting with SEIU sholder to shoulder with Walmart is not suprising, disgusting, but not suprising.
is TP actually billing this as a “god thing”?
is there any momentum for expanding medicaire to cover all?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:02 pmIts hard to believe anything Mighty says, now that she’s been fully outed.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:02 pmwoops I meant: is TP billing this as a GOOD thing?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:05 pmOne question: How many millions is Wal-Mart is going to make out of this?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:08 pmEver been to a hospital in England?
Comment by valiant venus
No, but I’ve been to the hospitals in Australia (basically the same system). As an expatriot, I took an ambulance to the hospital after a bike accident, was seen by a physican within about 10 minutes. Had to be referred to a plastic surgeon for stitches. Was in the plastic surgeon’s office and stitched up about 45 minutes later. Total cost to me: $5.00.
What’s your experience?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:09 pmMy cardiologist told me that Australia has excellent health care, some of the best in the world, and that I should feel perfectly comfortable using any medical facility if needed while traveling there.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:11 pmI have a medium sized business. I have never paid for health care for the employees. I pay for insurance. I believe there are a lot of corporations and individuals more interested in preserving the position of the insurance middle-man, than in providing health care.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:11 pmIn any case, I think it is clear that Valiant knows little or nothing about our health care system, or any other health care system. Just another ignorant Bush-bot without a functioning brain.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:12 pmHow touching, this sudden “surge†of social conscience: WalMart just wants to FRAME (or buy) the debate. Who let the dogs in? Maybe WalMart the megabank wants a piece of the insurance pie. WalMart is beginning to realize that you can’t fool all the people and the people are refusing to let them expand. Also, the poor CEO’s would starve without their “bonuses†if they couldn’t screw over their employees before dumping them on the taxpayers. And as for their taxes…what taxes? A stunning reversal is required: He who gives the most rises highest, instead of he who takes the most or makes the most. This is obvious to the bottom 99% who are indentured to the indemnified 1% at the top of the heap. But nothing is going to change until that 99% say ENOUGH and take it to the streets. And vote the bums out.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:13 pmHere is a suggestion on how to look at walmart. Walmart comes out and says it’s better to conserve electricity by the handful by using CF bulbs. Let’s say a boat load of people follow their advice. Now those people have extra money, where do suppose they are going to spend it? The only danger of shopping exclusively at walmart is they can one day raise their prices without adequate competition. As Judge Bork says you need 3 sources to fend of monopolies.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:20 pmhave a look around you, all you health-care-should-be-free dreamers, there are actually other countries on the face of the earth.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:24 pmeveryone should have the ability to buy health insurance, and be supported by government if he can’t earn enough. I’m even in favor of making that mandatory as soon as such a system is in place.
but stop this socialized medicine or “single payer health insurance” bullshit.
it. does. not. work.
Are we the only developed nation without national health care?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:25 pmMighty Caligula? Can you answer. Are we the only developed nation without national health care?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:27 pmit. does. not. work. — Comment by Stefan
Actually, there is a lot of evidence that shows it works and it works far better than the current system we have in the U.S. One can look to infant mortality rates, elder care, longevity, numbers of uninsured, . . . on and on, and the U.S. ranks below pretty much all other developed countries.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:32 pm@63, big surprise, a very bad system works better than no system at all.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:33 pmnot much of an argument to install that system.
Mighty Caligula? Can you answer. Are we the only developed nation without national health care?
Comment by ForTruth — February 7, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
Methinks Mighty Valiant Aphroditic Venus is having a smoke break over at some right wing blog, getting talking points for future rebuttals!
that, or she’s taking a well deserved nap!
February 7th, 2007 at 12:36 pmI thought MA. was right cute in her My Space profile.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:36 pm#64. Are you saying the U.S. has no health care system? I wonder what all those doctors do all day long?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:36 pmMy great aunt in Victoria BC said it started out as a GREAT idea – and now the system SUCKS.
Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 11:24 am
MA, is this a real aunt or one that resides in that fantasy land where you’re a successful lawyer with 4 kids? BTW, have you had breakfast yet?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:37 pmI thought MA. was right cute in her My Space profile.
Comment by no fat chicks
So you agree that MA has been outed? Its really her?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:42 pmThat photo of her, MA, she looked tired, and wired. Some call it “gacking”.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:43 pmMA would be attractive if she got a brain transplant.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:44 pmThis is all very cute…especially in the face of a potential class-action lawsuit that could cost Wal-Mart billions. What a sham.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:46 pmstefan, why exactly do you say “it does not work”
i’ve lived in france, italy and spain , and found the health care to be better than in the u.s. (not to mention afordable)
February 7th, 2007 at 12:46 pm#70 Bwahahahahaha For Truth! ‘gacking’ is a beautiful descriptor of what she does here. Tired and wired indeed. You gotta give her this, she’s got a big set to put some of those pics up no?
February 7th, 2007 at 12:47 pmSo you agree that MA has been outed? Its really her?
Comment by ForTruth
I think it is her. I’ve been calling her Hagette, and she knew I was referring to her. Such a sad speciman.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:50 pmSo you agree that MA has been outed? Its really her?
Comment by ForTruth
The profile,to me anyway,had enough similarities to be her.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:53 pmIf so,it proves she lies;but she is definitively doable.
You gotta give her this, she’s got a big set to put some of those pics up no?
Comment by Quadrajet
Or lacking in basic common sense.
February 7th, 2007 at 12:53 pmI’m an employee at one of the companies in the coalition. I have good benefits options, though for several years running the employee-paid component has gone up while benefits coverage has gone down. That trend is sure to continue. I have 20+ years with the company but cannot retire with benefits for another 5 to 10 years. It doesn’t make a lot of financial sense to move to another company and start over. I’m sort of locked in, hoping I survive the staff cutbacks that happen once or twice every year.
It may be that in another 5 or 10 years my company may not be offering medical benefits anyway. But if we have a universal system, I can live with that. It may not be everything I have today, but it would provide people like me career opportunities that don’t exist because we feel locked in to working for one company, subject to its policies.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:25 pmMy post #51 just disappeared, and a previous post like it has also disappeared. The first of these posts also took a strangely long time to appear. There was nothing profane in these posts, mostly the observation that infection rates are high in U.S. hospitals, and that Valiant was using an uninformed anecdote to argue a point.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:26 pmNow another post of mine is not appearing, in which I refuted troll Stefan’s bogus claim that single payer health insurance doesn’t work. So I will try one more time:
The evidence is overwhelming that single payer systems vastly outperform our employer-based system.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:30 pmIn typical Mitey Coprolite fashion, she posts this:
No substantive argument? Why am I not surprised. You both demonstrate the intellectual incapability of too many progressives.
Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Followed by this:
Maybe the UK should spend a bit more on disinfectant. While visiting an insured US friend hospitalized in one of their “better†hospitals, I was apalled.
Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Obviously Mitey Coprolite has not been to the UK and, given her track record with truthiness, I doubt she has a relative in Canada. Or ever been out of the contiguous states of the US, for that matter.
For the benefit of the rest of the posters here (minus Roger*2 and the other assorted blind Bush cult followers):
The US has the most expensive health care system in the world, and is the only developed nation that does not provide health care for all of its citizens. Check this 2001 report by the University of Maine. That report provides a good argument in favor of a single payer health insurance. Among its findings: “[...] recent studies have shown that a single payer plan would not only be economically feasible, but would be an enourmous improvement over what we have.”
Last year, the US was reported to have the second highest new-born mortality rate in the developed world, with a mortality rate equal to 2.5 times of Finland’s.
Obviously people like Roger*2 and Mitey Coprolite do not argue based on facts or reality, but on how they “feel” about this or that issue.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:34 pmComment by Gregor Samsa
Thank you Gregor.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:45 pmNow my posts are back! Weird.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:45 pmI don’t trust Walmart as far as I could throw a bull by the tail.
I just don’t think anything good can come from any association with Walmart. Ever.
I never have and never will buy anything from Walmart.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:08 pmHow long would you be willing to wait for heart surgery in Canada? Hmmmm……I didn’t think so. Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 10:56 am
You wouldn’t wait, if it was life threatening. There are no wait lines for life threatening surgeries in Canada.
As a disciple of Ann Coulter, no wonder you think there’s a long wait. All of Canada has an elective heart surgery waiting list of less than 100 people.
Here’s your homework assignment twigey.
First eat a tictac, then go research how many americans are waiting on their insurance companies to approve their ‘elective’ surgeries.
Second, go find out how americans were bankrupted paying for elective and non-elective surgeries.
Third go find out how many americans died because they didn’t receive life threatening medical care due to lack of insurance.
Fourth go find out how many americans are waiting for non-elective surgeries because they can’t pay for them.
If you finish your assignment, maybe them people won’t find you – what’s the word – ignorant? ‘Kay?
February 7th, 2007 at 2:09 pmIf you finish your assignment, maybe them people won’t find you – what’s the word – ignorant? ‘Kay?
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — February 7, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
Well….that should get her… to….Be Truthful ;-)
February 7th, 2007 at 2:14 pmWell….that should get her… to….Be Truthful ;-) Comment by DRxJ — February 7, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
We must remember her origins, it’s unlikely she has the capacity to Be Truthful ;)
February 7th, 2007 at 2:18 pmSo you agree that MA has been outed? Its really her? Comment by ForTruth
I checked out the MySpace profile and have to agree that there was enough there to suspect that she is, indeed, our own MA. Add to this the fact that MA’s post disappeared and “valiant venus” has appeared with very similar content but somewhat different style (no *, for example). Finally, our own troll MA sure came across as a very immature, lying individual. I vote busted.
Cute? Not so much. Anorexia and wingnutitis are turn-offs for me.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:24 pmAnd while we’re on Canada (wait list) as the not so valiant propagandist refers to, lets look to see how many people are dying in the two countries. We all know that our young anorexic is too lazy to do her own homework, so lets help her out while she goes and takes her hit of meth with some cardiovascular death rates:
Imagine that, with all of those ‘wait-lines’, and a medical system that costs 1/2 of America’s, and covers every citizen and tourist that visits, Canada is still able to save more lives per capita than the US.
The dear misguided little girl should be happy her great aunt lives in Canada. She’ll be much more likely to live a very long life because of it! That assumes of course that this aunt isn’t a figment of her imagination like the husband and dead/alive children were!
February 7th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI vote busted.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — February 7, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
That’s how I vote too. Check out VV’s post:
Krazny – An individuals rights are limited everyday. Prostitution, speeding, incitement to violence, littering, transfats, IRS, etc. limit the behaviour of individuals.
Comment by valiant venus — February 1, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
VV is repeating MA’s faux British spelling. She has also used similar phraseology.
She’s baaaaack…..
February 7th, 2007 at 2:50 pmWal-mart’s multiple PR firms are working overtime to pull their shite image out of the toilet. It won’t work, they are shite and always will be shite.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:52 pmWork is the mother of all prosperity and genius. Those of you who have such distaste for “profit this” and “corporate that” might want to remember that the equipment and instruments relied on were thought up by someone, invested in by someone and someone should receive compensation for their hard work.
And for all the whiners who beg government to run the show in health care insurance, why not reform MedicAid. Our tax dollars go to those “fine” ideas to assist the poor – - but you never seem to recall that fact.
I wasn’t aware there was only one MA in the whole wide world – but as MA didn’t graduate from UCLA, do you think there could be more than one MA out there? (A few blocks away there is a whole church filled with “patriotic”liberalchristians – they fall under the heading, “united church of christ”.)
February 7th, 2007 at 3:25 pmWork is the mother of all prosperity and genius. Those of you who have such distaste for “profit this†and “corporate that†might want to remember that the equipment and instruments relied on were thought up by someone, invested in by someone and someone should receive compensation for their hard work. Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
How many billions warrant compensation? While we’re on distaste, why do you have so much distaste for people that simply want affordable health care?
And for all the whiners who beg government to run the show in health care insurance, why not reform MedicAid. Our tax dollars go to those “fine†ideas to assist the poor – - but you never seem to recall that fact. Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Reform, or expand? The Medicare system is significantly more efficient than public insurance. So for all of the whiners who beg government to stay out of insurance, what do you have against efficiency and saving money?
I wasn’t aware there was only one MA in the whole wide world – but as MA didn’t graduate from UCLA, do you think there could be more than one MA out there? (A few blocks away there is a whole church filled with “patrioticâ€liberalchristians – they fall under the heading, “united church of christâ€.)Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Too funny! You try now to pretend to be a different person? So far there’s more proof that there’s only one MA, than there is that there are different MAs. Funny how you talk about yourself in the 3rd person as MA – when was the last time you had a mental checkup twiggy? You do know Anorexia can be a symptom of a more serious mental illness, right?
February 7th, 2007 at 3:40 pmbut as MA didn’t graduate from UCLA, do you think there could be more than one MA out there?
Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Obvious questions: How do you know where MA graduated from? Does your statement mean you did?
February 7th, 2007 at 3:41 pmVV is repeating MA’s faux British spelling.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Good catch. I did not see that post.
(A few blocks away there is a whole church filled with “patrioticâ€liberalchristians – they fall under the heading, “united church of christâ€.)
Comment by valiant venus
Is there a point here, Goddess Wannabe?
February 7th, 2007 at 3:42 pm#95 – Th obvious point, if there may be more than one or two people in the entire world who claim the screen name, PLC – wherever they are. But back to the topic:
I would like to ask progressives what they think the tax rates should be to pay for all the entitlement programs they envision?
The following quote applies to those who enjoy discussing public policy,
February 7th, 2007 at 6:55 pm“Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.” – Eleanor Roosevelt
I would like to ask progressives what they think the tax rates should be to pay for all the entitlement programs they envision? Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
If the rest of the world is any example, far less than we’re having to pay for premiums now! Heck, even those ‘evil corporations’ would get a break!
So now the question to you, how much more should we have to pay in health care costs, because corporations want to make a profit? And how many more people should be allowed to die, and suffer, because you don’t want them to have health care?
The following quote applies to those who enjoy discussing public policy, “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.†– Eleanor Roosevelt Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
We’ll remember that the next time you bring up Ted Kennedy, midget mind :)
A skinny girl like you must not eat much, instead of worrying about saving your money, why don’t you give some of your tic-tac money to the poor for health care?
February 7th, 2007 at 7:02 pmSo valiant venus, when can we expect you to correct your previous claims that there’s a huge problem with Canadians waiting for heart surgery?
I hope you were better at your homework in college. Here you get a failing grade! Maybe you need to resume your ’small-mind’ habit of simply attacking liberals with slurs, name calling, and political smears. Mrs. Roosevelt I’m sure knew people like you intimately!
February 7th, 2007 at 7:08 pmSmall minds discuss people.†– Eleanor Roosevelt
Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
Even smaller minds hide behind changing screen names, and packs of lies about themselves. Did it really take you this long to come up with that quote?
You are so lame. And so busted, MA.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:16 pm#97 – Jason, Thank you for demonstrating your incapacity to answer the question about tax rates. Percentages would have been fine.
In the the narrow world of progressives, the most vulgar word known to collective comrades is PROFIT. Honorable progressive employment is often found working for non-profit organizations, unions, and assorted government bureaucracies. But the one thing NEVER mentioned – all of those entities would DRY up without PROFITS. PROFITS to be taxed – PROFITS for grants and donations, etc.
Universal health coverage means rationed health care – Period. The wait might be down as many of those on lists come to Detroit through Windsor and Seattle and Portland via BC.
“A July 2004 study by the Vancouver-based Fraser Institute, Paying, More, Getting Less, concluded that after years of government control, the Canadian medical system is badly injured and bleeding citizens’ hard-earned tax dollars. The institute compared health care systems in the industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and found Canada currently spends the most, yet ranks among the lowest on such indicators as access to physicians, quality of medical equipment, and key health outcomes.
One of the major reasons for this discrepancy is that, unlike the countries in the study that outperformed Canada–Sweden, Japan, Australia, and France, for example–Canada outlaws most private health care.
If the Canadian government says it provides a particular medical service, it is illegal for a Canadian citizen to pay for and obtain that service privately. At the same time, the Canadian government bureaucracy rations medical services. According to another Fraser Institute survey, Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada (13th edition, October 2003), a Canadian health care patient, on average, must wait 17.7 weeks for hospital treatment. Those who live in Saskatchewan waited an average of 30 weeks, those in Ontario a relatively expeditious 14 weeks.”
February 7th, 2007 at 7:37 pmRober Chiak, MD, July 2004, Healthcare News
Gregor Samsa, small mind.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:39 pmGregor Samsa, small mind. Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 7:39 pm
I so enjoy your self reflection, even when it’s unintentional!
February 7th, 2007 at 7:45 pm#97 – Jason, Thank you for demonstrating your incapacity to answer the question about tax rates. Percentages would have been fine. Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Thanks for demonstrating your incapacity to answer the question about health care.
You’ve once again given statistics on ‘elective’ care. And I know you aren’t very worldly, so stating the Saskatechwan wait times is like referring to health care access living in the Yukon of Alaska! Would you care to guess how much time someone from there might have to wait to see a doctor – assuming there even is one in their area?
Besides, quoting the Fraser institute on health care issues, is like quoting Ted Haggard on Homosexuality. Sorry little miss sunshine, but you really show your ignorance when you use them as a resource. Might I suggest you go to the Canadian statistics websites? They have the unfiltered statistics, that don’t include the most rare, remote and isolated of countries!
February 7th, 2007 at 7:49 pmOh, and valiant venus, the little boys at Fraser, are big global warming critics, and receive lots of Exxon funding as well. To describe them as far right, and known for their complete political bias, would be ‘kind’. It would be like calling you Anorexic. :)
February 7th, 2007 at 7:52 pmGregor Samsa, small mind.
Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 7:39 pm
And yet -here you are, discussing me.
Welcome back, MA.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:56 pmAnd yet -here you are, discussing me. Welcome back, MA.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — February 7, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
Isn’t conservative hypocrisy just a crackup?
It’s almost as funny as quoting the Fraser Institute as a ’source’!!!!!!
February 7th, 2007 at 8:09 pmThe institute compared health care systems in the industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and found Canada currently spends the most, yet ranks among the lowest on such indicators as access to physicians, quality of medical equipment, and key health outcomes. Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
This is one of my favorite big lies! It’s actually the US that spends the most in the OECD, not Canada.
Canada isn’t even near the top, but as is often the case among right wingnuts, they can’t get a simple fact straight. Here’s the 2006 data:
http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
And dear mizz tic-tac, if you really want health statistics, why don’t you do yourself a favor and use the ones from the canadian government.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/qual/acces/wait-attente/index_e.html
Or the OECD statistics:
http://www.oecd.org/document/16/0,2340,en_2649_37407_2085200_1_1_1_37407,00.html
Although I’m sure you prefer just to pre-form your opinion, and ignore the abundant information that disproves your preconceptions.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:29 pmTP? Could you do something with this posters name?
ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
It is mischaracterizing someone elses name in a bad light.
Your attention to this matter is greatly appreciated.
ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus needs to be BANNED!
February 7th, 2007 at 9:36 pm#103 – Jason, So let’s see if I get this straight – According to you, folks in Saskatechwan DO NOT have the same access to quality health care as someone in Motreal or Toronto. And it’s illegal for Canadians to buy private health coverage? I’m starting to see “equity and social justice’ everytime I ponder such a system. The only benefit I see is the $161B in savings from paper pusher to paper pusher.
While you may not like the answer I provided, I answered your question. I am waiting for your response to my question regarding tax rates acceptable to you. Another question in response will not suffice.
Note to Molly: I appreciate your note to TP. Realize that poor Jason is not very imaginative. However, I am not interested in having anyone censored, unlike the number of progressives here who rallied to eliminate anti Semitic plunger, lefties Susan the debtonator, btruthful, Ryan Neat, and right wingers, IRI, etc. An assortment of ideas, whether legitimate debate or intellectual reflux, demonstrate the First Amendment amid the consorous claptrap of political correctness.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:03 pmJason cites the Canadian government, which notes ” The 10 Year Plan outlines strategic investments directed toward reducing waiting times for access to care, especially for cancer, heart, diagnostic imaging, joint replacement and sight restoration services. To support the reduction of wait times, the Federal Government committed to investing $4.5 billion over the next six years, beginning in 2004-05, in the Wait Times Reduction Fund.”
Whew! It’s good to see there’s always room for improvment – I’m just surprised anyimprovement is necessary given the glowing reviews by proressives. (10 years to fine tune an already “fabulous” system? How surprising? I wonder how a population 8.5 times larger than Canada will manage wait times. Hmmmm…….
February 7th, 2007 at 10:11 pmWhew! It’s good to see there’s always room for improvment – I’m just surprised anyimprovement is necessary given the glowing reviews by proressives. Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Still waiting for you to compare how this system is ‘worse’ than our current one. What ‘wait times’ do we already have for all of those Americans that get zero health care?
(10 years to fine tune an already “fabulous†system? How surprising? I wonder how a population 8.5 times larger than Canada will manage wait times. Hmmmm……. Comment by valiant venus — February 7, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Are you suggesting that health care plans don’t ’scale’? What basis do you have to assume that? Why do you believe it would be worse than the 50 million Americans that get little or no healthcare, while our country spends twice as much as Canada?
Dear twiggy, please don’t confuse our correcting your disinformation with a glowing analysis of Canada. It’s woefully underfunded, yet Canadians nationally experience better health care than americans.
You also have yet to demonstrate that there’s a waiting list for life threatening illness.
Who’s Jason, there’s no post by Jason on this thread. Is that maybe you posting to yourself, but getting removed in the filter? You’re way to Anorexic to afford a split personality little Mizz Sunshine.
When you get done posting disinformation, and smears against Canada, would please do your homework and explain how 50 million people without health care is better than this horrible Canadian system? Or is your sole complaint that rich people can’t buy better healthcare? How tiresome…
February 7th, 2007 at 11:39 pmSEIU is sleeping with the Devil.
February 8th, 2007 at 11:03 pmNot one of you really know what is going on! Wal-Mart and friends are just trying to ease the load in their pockets! If the American Citizens pay for the health care of the uninsured then they don’t have to, do they? Now lets talk about Universal Healthcare! How about waiting your turn in line behind about 500-1000 others? How about doctors that have their income decline so that they either don’t care if you get health care, or quit! How about nurses that won’t get a fair paycheck? They will quit too! Then there are the researchers that develop new drugs to fight disease – why bother they won’t get anything for their trouble and years of research so there won’t be any new drugs developed at all. Hospitals will decline in care because they won’t be funded for the state of the art equipment so less health care there too. Now then comes big brother to tell you that you can’t drink, smoke, eat the wrong foods, have unprotected sex, risky behavior will not be covered. Child-birth will not be funded. (sad story for the Mexicans) that will have to come out of the individuals own pocket. How about checking it out at this web site to get a real picture of what Universal Healthcare is like and maybe if you’re lucky it will turn into Socialized medicine then you will really feel lucky! The web site is …………….
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html/
Just read through that web site and see what this country will head for if this is carried through. By the way the Bush administration is probably pushing these companies to get this through making it look like it is their agenda. People are so dumb! I know, just send the 20 – 30 million Mexicans back to their country! That would be 20 to 30 million less Mexicans to take care of, then send back all the Other Than Mexicans, perhaps another 10 million and bingo! That’s more than enough to cover the uninsured. Problem solved! The only ones left will be the American Citizens and I don’t think the American Citizens would mind picking up the tab for the Citizens the U.S. Note: While we debate this Mexico is in the process of setting up Universal Health care in their country. Now when the Mexicans go home they can get all the free health care they need! Do you really think that Mexico and the U.S. trying to push this through at the same time is a coincidence? NOT!!!!
February 9th, 2007 at 12:45 amYES! Beware, coalition rhetoric comes cheap!! Heaven help us, I hope the “progressives” in this coalition know what they’re doing and are not betraying progressive ideals, and the American people.
FYI the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine (IOM) Report Called for Universal Health Coverage by 2010 from Press Release Jan 14, 2004 (and things are finally ramping up now…in Feb. 2007)
The IOM Report and its “5 Priniciples to Judge, Compare Proposed Solutions for Universal Health Care” might be of interest and of use to folks who are following (and maybe even participating actively in) health reform on the state and/or national levels.
Offers 5 Guiding Principles to Judge, Compare Proposed Solutions:
1. Health care coverage should be universal.
2. Health care coverage should be continuous.
3. Health care coverage should be affordable to individuals and families.
4. The health insurance strategy should be affordable and sustainable to society.
5. Health care coverage should enhance health and well-being by promoting access to high-quality care that is effective, efficient, safe, timely, patient-centered, and equitable.
(side note: when these priniciples were announced in 2004 they were celebrated but it did seem to many advocates that Principle #5 cheats somewhat, in that is tries to wrap quite a few principles into one). MassCare has been using the IOM Principles in their work as have many other groups in MA and across the country.
The full IOM Report is very good and well worth a look at this link
February 9th, 2007 at 12:38 pmUniversal Health coverage is rationed health care. Period.
February 10th, 2007 at 3:43 pmRe: comment #115. You must know that all health care is “rationed”. What do you mean by your comment?
With Universal HC (and beware, there’s not one accepted working definition), at least it would be rational rationing, based on clinical need and not by “wallet biopsy” as is the case now in the U.S..
If we had Improved Medicare for All (or something to that effect) we could collectively decide as a civilized society what services would be covered FOR ALL.
Let’s get with the program!! Every other industrialized country in the world spends FAR LESS MONEY, GETS BETTER QUALITY CARE AND BETTER OUTCOMES and COVERS EVERYONE with some version of guaranteed universal coverage with comprehensive benefits for all residents.
Check out the national organizing project called HealthCare-Now.org to learn more about this reform and to help make it happen. Thank you.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:46 pmFolks we once HAD good SINGLE PAYER healthcare, it was called Medicare Medicaid and having once experienced that system for my spouse who had cancer while unemployed I can assure you that all the horror stories are just that, stories. Unfortunately the GOVERNMENT FUNDED SINGLE PAYER systems of Medicare and Medicaid have been intentionally underfunded and limited to only the very young, very old, and the adult disabled indigent, leaving out the majority of Americans. The monstrous cuts made by the Bush junta and insulting Part D so-called benefit have only succeeded in making decent efficient healthcare for all in the USA just a joke.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:24 pmSusan
I always enjoy coming to this site because you offer great tips and advice for people like me who can always use a few good pointers. I will be getting my friends to pop around fairly soon.
March 16th, 2008 at 3:53 pm