Webb ‘Very Worried’ Bush’s Iran Provocations ‘Might Set Something Off In There’
Webb ‘Very Worried’ Bush’s Iran Provocations ‘Might Set Something Off In There’
President Bush has ratcheted up military pressure on Iran in recent months, most notably by dispatching two naval carrier groups to the Persian Gulf, “the largest concentration of naval power projection in that region” since the start of the Iraq war. Vice President Cheney explained that sending the carriers “sends a very strong signal to everybody in the region” that “we clearly have significant capabilities…to deal with the Iranian threat.”
Tonight on Hardball, Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) said that during his time as Navy Secretary under President Reagan — and “until very recently” — the U.S. “never operated” aircraft carriers within the Gulf because it risked confrontation. “The chance of accidentally bumping into something that would start a diplomatic situation was pretty high,” Webb explained. “With the tensions as high as they are, I’m very worried that we might accidentally set something off in there and we need, as a Congress, to get ahead of the ballgame here.”
Watch it:
Transcript:
And you know, one thing, if you look at where we are in the Persian Gulf right now, when I was Secretary of the Navy and until very recently, we never operated carrier — aircraft carriers inside the Persian Gulf because, number one, the turning radius is pretty close, and number two, the chance of accidentally bumping into something that would start a diplomatic situation was pretty high. We now have been doing that, and with the tensions as high as they are, I’m very worried that we might accidentally set something off in there and we need, as a Congress, to get ahead of the ballgame here.
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Amazing. This is about the zillionth post in a month about an incoming attack on Iran by Think Progress. Obsess much?
What’s funny is that the only thing Bush has talked about is the FACT (read the recent NIE) that Iranians are meddling in Iraq. That’s it.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:08 pmIf a nuclear strike is made on Iran, the resulting calamity will very likely cause gasoline prices to soar as high as $10 per gallon, it has been suggested. If that happens, I cannot see how the economy will be able to sustain itself.
I certainly would not be able to even afford the 70 mile round trip drive to my place of work.
What will we do? It’s occurring to me that we are facing a disaster far beyond the Iraq situation, which is bad enough.
It’s also occurring to me that people are unable to fathom that what is about to happen is even real.
It’s as if the country is drifting into a dream world, or a nightmare world.
I find it hard to believe that after all these years of speaking out and activism, we have still come to this point. After all we have learned about our government, and how to avoid such problems, we are about to reach the edge of the abyss.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:08 pmWow what a genius.. an attack might happen in the middle of a war.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:09 pmSeizon: Well it’s the Progressive thing nowadays to root for your avowed barbaric Klingonesque enemies.
Some guy in HuffPuff called it Patriotic Terrorism.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:10 pmSeixon
You think it’s funny? Funny that Bush is planning to do a major nuclear strike.
You know damn well there is plenty of evidence of this. It’s coming in from all over.
You just choose to close your eyes.
How stupid are you? You will look pretty stupid when you’re standing in your front yard without a pot to piss in, or a job to go to.
Now that might be funny.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:11 pmReports suggest that Russia hassold 29 anti-aircraft missiles to Iran, despite U.S. protests…
…I’d venture to guess that there will be a number of sophisticated weapons sales from China and russia to Iran before this is over…
…Bushiva and L’il Dick may well get what they’ve been selling wolf tickets about…
…evil al Crackkker criminals that they are, they think the country will rally around them and forget about Iraq…
…I pray they get what they’ve got coming to them…
…their brand of habaeus corpus…
February 7th, 2007 at 8:11 pmChildren : what are you nervous about? Why would the US nuke Iran in order to prevent them from using non-Fossil Fuel -based electricity. I think you’re being paranoid. Iran is not a threat. They just want to generate green energy like all other peace loving theocracies.
:/sarcasm:
February 7th, 2007 at 8:16 pmVinceP
I wish I was being paranoid. Unfortunately this is real.
The Country and Congress are in deep denial.
Walking about in a dream, or the fog of war.
Unable to wake up and realize what is about to happen.
Like watching a car accident, you want to stop it but you can’t even scream out.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:20 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401907_pf.html
Meanwhile, Air Force planners have modeled attacks against existing Iranian air defenses and targets, while Navy planners have evaluated coastal defenses and drawn up scenarios for keeping control of the Strait of Hormuz at the base of the Persian Gulf.
A follow-on TIRANNT Campaign Analysis, which began in October 2003, calculated the results of different scenarios for action against Iran to provide options for analyzing courses of action in an updated Iran war plan. According to military sources close to the planning process, this task was given to Army Gen. John P. Abizaid, now commander of CENTCOM, in 2002.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:21 pmWhen it happens it won’t be an accident. The Republican party is dead. They’ve been exposed as the radical weirdos on the same level as sandal wearing madrasa bots.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:21 pmAbizaid. Wasn’t he responsible for Abu Graib? Jeez. It’s not enough to just torture people, now he’s going to start WWIII.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:23 pmAmazing. This is about the zillionth post in a month about an incoming attack on Iran by Think Progress. Obsess much?
I guess now your gonna say the Pentagon Obsesses much?
The two carriers are there likely to keep control of the Strait of Hormuz
February 7th, 2007 at 8:24 pmChildren: I keep getting told by Progressives that Iran isn’t a threat. so even if we were to attack them what exactly are you worried about?
February 7th, 2007 at 8:26 pmAw Cmon TP, that was a good post.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:26 pmSeixon is clearly a troll and disengeniune as no one is truly that retarded. From Hersh’s articles with sources in the Pentagon to Pentagons war games to Generals revolt last summer about Nuclear attack plans rejected. Do yourself a favor and read Vanity Fair’s march issue and get back to us.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/03/whitehouse200703?printable=true¤tPage=all
Given the Failure in Chiefs HISTORICAL COLLOSSAL track record why do you remain in denial? When did you personally stop defending the failure and what flavor is their paste today?
February 7th, 2007 at 8:27 pmLir,
You think it’s funny? Funny that Bush is planning to do a major nuclear strike.
I think it’s funny that you make things up out of thin air, like you did here, yes.
You know damn well there is plenty of evidence of this. It’s coming in from all over.
What I do know is that Patrick Lang, Sam Gardiner, and other members of VIPS have been the primary sources for every single big story claiming the Bush administration is planning to attack Iran. So characterizing this as “from all over” is a bit fanciful, don’t you think?
You just choose to close your eyes.
Well, I will when I go to sleep in a sec, but I suggest you open your eyes and READ something instead of just making things up in your head.
How stupid are you? You will look pretty stupid when you’re standing in your front yard without a pot to piss in, or a job to go to.
Huh? Was that even meant to make sense? Bush attacks Iran and then I’m out of a job? Sorry, I don’t follow you. As for who is stupid, these guys have been claiming this Iran attack stuff for 2 years. Two years. It hasn’t happened yet. When’s it going to happen??
Now that might be funny.
I would never wish for you to be homeless and unemployed, regardless of what you believe. Apparently you’re not as compassionate….
Night.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:29 pmVInceP
Iran is not interested in attacking US. But Iran is capable of inflicting significant damage on our economy if we attack them.
It’s not a difficult concept.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:32 pmSeixon
February 7th, 2007 at 8:33 pmYou are ignorant, in the sense of word – you ignore the facts to suit your prejudices and assumptions.
Abizaid is retiring. He is being replaced as Commander of Central Command by Navy Adm. William J. Fallon
February 7th, 2007 at 8:33 pmAmazing. This is about the zillionth post in a month about an incoming attack on Iran by Think Progress. Obsess much? Comment by Seixon — February 7, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
That wouldn’t be so funny, if virtually every post on your blog wasn’t a smack at TP, Plame or Global Warming. Hypocrisy much?
What’s funny is that the only thing Bush has talked about is the FACT (read the recent NIE) that Iranians are meddling in Iraq. That’s it.
Comment by Seixon — February 7, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
But he isn’t talking about the Saudis meddling, and sending weapons that are downing our helicopters. Wonder why that is?
February 7th, 2007 at 8:33 pmSeixon
February 7th, 2007 at 8:34 pmI said it ‘might’ be funny if you hadn’t a job – might be funny because you are like the child whistling past the graveyard. You are too scared to face the truth.
Children: Iran attacked soverign US terrority in 1979. Iran has attacked the US Marines in Beirut via its proxy. Iran attacked US barracks at Khobar Towers via proxy. Iran funds Hezbellah, which was the #1 Islamic killer of Americans pre- 9/11.
Iran has been attacking us relentlessly.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:35 pmHuh? Was that even meant to make sense? Bush attacks Iran and then I’m out of a job? Sorry, I don’t follow you. As for who is stupid, these guys have been claiming this Iran attack stuff for 2 years. Two years. It hasn’t happened yet. When’s it going to happen??
That wouldn’t be so funny, if the neocons hadn’t been working up to attacking Iraq for almost 10 years.
You’re right, you don’t follow anything, especially a rational train of thought, or sequence of events. You completely fix the facts to avoid reality – as most cultists do.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:35 pmI would believe Jim Webb before anyone in this administration — and Seixon & Vinnie.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:37 pmVinceP
The US overthrew the democratically elected IRan government in 1954 because the democratically elected President Mossadegh was going to nationalize the oil industry. So the CIA sent in Kermit Roosevelt, grandson of Theodore, and a CIA agent, to fund and bribe people to overthrow Mossadegh. Then we installed the SHAH. The Shah was more ruthless and brutal than Saddam. The IRanian people, who had elected a President, were now faced with a brutal dictator, thanks to the US. HEnce, they hated us and eventually took hostages in order to get RID OF THE SHAH.
And so here we are today. Again threatening to destroy Iran. And blowback is a b.t.ch
February 7th, 2007 at 8:41 pmZooey: you should believe the Iranians at least. Or are they liars too?
Is anyone who pops your increasingly obsolete world view a liar?
These peopel are liars too:
“Commandant of Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi, said on state television. “God willing, the 21st century will see the defeat of the U.S. and the Zionists, and the victory of freedom-seeking nations of the world. The final goal of the [1979] revolution is to create global Islamic rule and a regime of law to be led by the Imam Mahdiâ€.
“The [Iranians] President’s chief strategist, Hassan Abbassi, has come up with a war plan based on the premise that “Britain is the mother of all evils†– the evils being America, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, the Gulf states and even Canada, all of whom are the malign progeny of the British Empire. “We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization,†says Mr Abbassi. “There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them… Once we have defeated the Anglo-Saxons the rest will run for cover.â€
“The IRGC chief warned that Iran was seeing through “critical days†and “fate-determining yearsâ€. He described the purpose of Iran’s 1979 Islamic revolution as the “Salvation of Muslims†from the hands of the “oppressive U.S. and Israelâ€.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:45 pmVince, stop embarrassing yourself. This isn’t HANNITY chat where you can spew biased drivel and see if it sticks. You cannot make those assertions and historical contextual assertions by ommitting CIA coup and installing the Shah, Arming Saddam, providing logistics of Iran troops, satelite images, attacking their Navy, and internal espionage. Silly child TP is for adults. We have been attacking and subverting their soverignty since the 40’s!!!!!!!!! Shees, what a chump.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:45 pmChildrenofLir : Yes, I heard that story about 1023085934690 times now.
Guess what.. Iran wants to nuke your ass.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:46 pmI’d pay top dollar to see Webb beat the shit out of W.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:48 pmyou’re hysterical with fear Vince. Ask your Dr. about Ambien.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:49 pmVinceP
February 7th, 2007 at 8:49 pmYOu can’t handle the truth.
This is how much the Mullahs in Iran care about the political entity called iran (not at all). Mullahs aren’t Communists , they dont care about your anti-Americanism,, they care about your Kuffarness.
We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [Iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:49 pm- Khomeni – Qom 1980
Comment by Vince P
Vince,
Go on and continue to procreate with your mother, sisters and daughters…
…you inbred imbecile…
Sorry ALL…
…couldn’t resist…
February 7th, 2007 at 8:50 pmYour Consciene: There are few adults who I know in the real world who talk as childish and immature and spiteful/hateful/mean as the “Progressives” here.
you’re an adult? um ok.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:50 pmThe more I’m called names the more you prove the emptiness of your positions and the bankruptacy of your objectivity.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:52 pmVinceP
I’d think the US and UK were the mothers of all evil too if I were Iranian. After what the US and UK have done to the Middle East for 100 years in the name of oil, I’m starting to agree with the Iranians.
ANd VinceP, YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:52 pmWhat “Progressives” progress…
http://switch5.castup.net/ frames/ 20041020_MemriTV_Popup/ video_480×360.asp?ai=214&ar=805wmv&ak=null
Transcript here
http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=805
It is the Chief Iranian Nuclear negiotator on Iranian TV blantantly stating that they used the years of talks with Europe as cover to continue its work on getting fuel cycle.
These people can’t be talked to, they are deceitful and count on Western wishful thinking so they can take advantage of it.
Some quotes:
Those (in Iran) who criticize us and claim that we should have only worked with the IAEA do not know that at that stage – that is, in August 2003 – we needed another year to complete the Esfahan (UCF) project, so it could be operational.
The regime adopted a twofold policy here: It worked intensively with the IAEA, and it also conducted negotiations on international and political levels. The IAEA gave us a 50-day extension to suspend the enrichment and all related activities. But thanks to the negotiations with Europe we gained another year, in which we completed (the UCF) in Esfahan.
Esfahan’s (UCF) was completed during that year. Even in Natanz, we needed six to twelve months to complete the work on the centrifuges. Within that year, the Natanz project reached a stage where the small number of centrifuges required for the preliminary stage, could operate. In Esfahan, we have reached UF4 and UF6 production stages.
We suspended the UCF in Esfahan in October 2004, although we were required to do so in October 2003. If we had suspended it then, (the UCF) in Esfahan would have never been completed. Today we are in a position of power: (The UCF) in Esfahan is complete and UF4 and UF6 gasses are being produced. We have a stockpile of products, and during this period, we have managed to convert 36 tons of Yellow Cake into gas and store it. In Natanz, much of the work has been completed
Thanks to our dealings with Europe, even when we got a 50-day ultimatum, we managed to continue the work for two years. This way we completed (the UCF) in Esfahan. This way we carried out the work to complete Natanz, and on top of that, we even gained benefits
Host: Mr. Musavian, there is a point that our viewers might find interesting – the comparison between Iran’s nuclear activity dossier and North Korea’s.
There is a belief that if we adopted the North Korean model, we could have stood much stronger against the excessive demands of America and Europe.
Musavian: During these two years of negotiations, we managed to make far greater progress than North Korea. North Korea’s most important achievement had to do with security guarantees. We achieved the same thing a year ago in the negotiations with the Europeans. They agreed to give us international guarantees for Iran’s security, its national rule, its independence, non-intervention in its internal affairs, its national security, and not invading it.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:54 pmVinceP
THe US is the cause of the mullahs coming to power. When we installed the Shah as our puppet dictator, and he ravaged the country, the extremists rose to power to fight the Shah. It is the normal flow of things.
When some outsider comes and destroys your home, you turn to the neighborhood thugs to protect you.
Anyone with even a partial brain would understand this.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:54 pmChildrenofLir : The Iranian people are among the most Pro-American in the Middle east. Wrong again.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:55 pmVinceP
You’re the one throwing insults about how the Iranians are going to nuke my ass.
Now you’re losing and you just can’t take it.
It’s simple.
You don’t have a leg to stand on, or an argument that you can defend.
You just have prejudices and inanities poured into your brain by FOX news and the PResident and you buy it all.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:56 pmVinceP
February 7th, 2007 at 8:57 pmYou contradict yourself at every turn. You are no longer worth responding to.
Children: you’re the one who can’t the truth. This isn’t the words of someone who is handling the truth
“I find it hard to believe that after all these years of speaking out and activism, we have still come to this point. After all we have learned about our government, and how to avoid such problems, we are about to reach the edge of the abyss.”
I don’t know how many times Leftists need to learn the lesson that their natural inclination to suckle at the teat of America’s enemies results in the bolstering of the forces of totalitarianism.
WHERE ARE THE HUMAN SHIELDS OF 2003 TO PROTECT THE IRAQI PEOPLE NOW?
February 7th, 2007 at 8:59 pmChildrenofLir : Yes, I heard that story about 1023085934690 times now.
Guess what.. Iran wants to nuke your ass.
Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
That’s not true. Iran wants to nuke Israel’s ass, and the feeling is mutual I’m sure.
The US is just a meddler as far as they’re concerned. You can try again with another talking point.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:00 pmChildren: obviously you have trouble keeping compartmentalized the Iranian Theocratic Regime and the population held captive to it.
Who can’t handle the truth? hmm.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:00 pmValian: Israel is the Little Satan. The US is the Great Satan. Don’t be misled by pragmatism.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:00 pmVince – you are wrong, and you’re hysterical, and even John Wayne himself would slap you right about now.
Go hang out at Free Republic, or Stormfront, or wherever the mouthbreathers hang out nowadays.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:01 pmI don’t know how many times Leftists need to learn the lesson that their natural inclination to suckle at the teat of America’s enemies results in the bolstering of the forces of totalitarianism.Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
I wasn’t aware that Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford were Leftists when he support the totalitarian shah!
I wasn’t aware that Reagan and Bush the first were Leftists when they were supporting the totalitarian Taliban and Al Qaeda!
WHERE ARE THE HUMAN SHIELDS OF 2003 TO PROTECT THE IRAQI PEOPLE NOW? Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
Probably receiving ‘ghost salaries’ and ‘bribes’ from the inept republican leadership.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:02 pmValian: Israel is the Little Satan. The US is the Great Satan. Don’t be misled by pragmatism. Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
That would have been great advice for Nixon, Ford and Reagan, when he was supporting fanatical religious leaders to fight the ‘commies’. That pragmatism is what gave you the Shah, the mullahs, Al Qaeda and Saddam. So, before lecturing others on the dangers of ‘pragmatism’, look no further than the decades of your side screwing up.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:05 pmVince P
What would be the point of attacking Iran? We would be much better served negotiating than entering into a war with them. Attacking Iran it seems is the only solution this administration has to overcoming the failure of its misconceived Iraq policy. Attacking Iran may solve the problem of losing face in the short term, but in the long term we’ll just get our butt kicked. Tactically, we do not have the capacity to invade and occupy Iran. That leaves us with the choice of bombing. Over the short term, this will destroy their limited development of nuclear capabilities. Over the long, however, it could destroy us.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:05 pmFirst it will make Iran a permanent enemy …. right now there is the possibility of negotiation, peace and friendship. If we attack though, it will cause generations of enmity.
Second, and most importantly, Russian and China are Iran’s big buddies. Do we really want to have a conflict with them, militarily or economically? Do we really want another Cold War that will be worse than the last, or World War III?
Thirdly, attacking Iran encourages other ‘rogue’ nations to believe in the fact that developing nuclear capability is the only way to stave off an invasion by the Imperial US military. Also, since our capabilities will be even more occupied, will encourage these nations to commit acts they would not do if we were able to effectively counter them.
Thinking pragmatically about this situation and the consequences is more ballsy, I think, than going in guns blazing without asking any questions. If one thinks they will look weak by negotiating and not attacking then they have serious issues of insecurity, and this goes for nations as well as individuals.
>the inept republican leadership.
Well there… see there is something we agree on.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:05 pmValiant
VinceP is like the PResident, he’ll say anything, at any moment, contradict himself at every turn, cause he can’t handle the truth.
Ignore VinceP and he will go away.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:06 pmChirac was speaking truth in his ‘gaffe’ this week (Chirac is a wily bastard). There is no reason to suspect that for all the bluster Iran will use any nuke they have – Mutually Assured Destruction worked for US and USSR, no reason why Iran and Israel can’t figure it out. Do I support an Iranian bomb – no. Can anyone stop it short of using nukes themselves? No.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:06 pmAshen: I haven’t advocated attacking Iran.
I just scoff at this hysteria that simulataneously holds
1) Iran would just rather mind its own business, thank you.
and
2) The US is going to destroy Iran just for the hell of it, and in retaliation there will be massive pain inflicted on the US by the nation that is harmless.
I hold onto these three positions
1 – Acknoweldge thier ongoing war against the US and dont pretend its not happen
2 – Actively deny them the ability to carry out their deliberate destablization of Iraq
3 – Deny them nuclear capability.
The prefered solution is for the people of Iran to rise up and get rid of the cavemen.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:08 pmI still remember when Bush first started talking about attacking Iraq six months before he did it. At that time, attacking Iraq sounded completely ludicrous and out of the question, just like attacking Iran does now.
Trolls, stories keep being posted about Bush attacking Iran because we now know what Bush is capable of doing, and because we know he’s insane and because we know he doesn’t give a shit about humanity.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:09 pm“Ignore VinceP and he will go away”
That’s how you handle anything that doesn’t compute in your social paradise of 1968 isn’t it?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:10 pmCan anyone stop it short of using nukes themselves? No.
Sorry Terry but that’s the talk of very stupid people. It is extreme cowardice, in my opinion, to say there’s nothing that can be done short of using nuclear weapons.
That’s just laziness and cowardice.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:10 pmWilly: and the Iranians care?
ARe you seriously making the case that Bush is worse than that regime. well of course you are, cuz you’re a “Progressive” and reality doesn’t pertain.
But Jesus people.. the extent of your BDS is frightening.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:12 pmWilly
February 7th, 2007 at 9:13 pmI remember too, back in 2002, in the summer, the faux news channels starting talking up an attack on Iraq. I couldn’t believe at the time that we would do that. But as the Fall progressed, it became clearer that in fact Bush was hell bent on doing just that. ANd we watched in horror as the insanity unfolded.
55: And who are they?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:13 pmWill someone dig up the article ( try Informatuon Clearing House) which lists the likely outcome of an Israeli-US air strike on Iran?
1. Maybe irans program is slowed 3-5 years.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:14 pm2. Iran unleasehes merry hell across the Gulf – oil price soars.
3. Iranian people forget about how idiotic the mullahs are as a government and respond with fierce nationalism.
4. Iran sets Iraq on fire with 100ks of soldiers
5. Saudi Arabia joins the war in Iraq.
6. Jesus returns to earth and blows the whistle…
That’s how you handle anything that doesn’t compute in your social paradise of 1968 isn’t it? Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
Spoken like someone hiding under their desk, waiting for the commies to launch first strike.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:14 pmARe you seriously making the case that Bush is worse than that regime. well of course you are, cuz you’re a “Progressive†and reality doesn’t pertain.
But Jesus people.. the extent of your BDS is frightening.
Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
So far, Iran hasn’t invaded its neighbor based on a lie, and killed over 600,000 people. How exactly do ‘you’ measure worse? What you ‘believe’ someone is capable of, or based on what someone has actually done?
Accusing people of BDS, while being a bush cultist and islamophobe, is the height of irony. I can see we have another lame old warhorse still living out their fear of commies.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:16 pm5. Saudi Arabia joins the war in Iraq.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — February 7, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
It’s already happened. The 5 downed copters were the work of saudi financed sunni warriors, not Iranians. While Bush’s brownshirts like Vince are fixated on Iran, the Saudis are stabbing us in the back.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:17 pmThat was fantastic logic Vince. You must be a genius at critical thinking. They are not a threat when not provoked therefore they cannot possibly be a threat after attacked. You had better go hit the books or you’ll get kicked out of “Your Crap Town City College”.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:18 pmAd hominem attack Children , are you calling me stupid and cowardly?
Let me clarify my point and give you the chance to apologize:
Can anyone stop Iran developing a nuclear device without themselves using a nuclear weapon? Practically no – unless the Iranians choose not to. In this environent, where Kim I’ll Sung proves my point, the answer is no.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:18 pmLet me see if I have your argument straight Vince:
1. You’re tired of hearing about the possible U.S. strike against Iran because this will never happen
2. Iran is already at war with us so we should attack them
3. Do not attack but contain them.
Seems pretty consistent and well thought out to me.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:18 pm#50 Vince P
The Iranian people won’t rise up against their government en mass until the Iranian government is their only enemy. Right now, we provide the rhetoric against Iran that allows to point the finger at us and give enough of the people a scapegoat to blame all their problems on. Bush has done it from the beginning, not giving Iran a chance, thats been his policy. His policy also caused a liberalize Iran to do an about face and go conservative again. Bush created this ‘enemy’.
The only instance Iran is fighting the US is for influence in Iraq. That would not be a problem if we had not invaded and created that political vacuum. We had a nice policy of allowing them to go at each other thus keeping either from being a threat. As for Iran’s involvement in the violence in Iraq, it is minimal. We are doing a good enough job a destabilizing Iraq on our own.
There is a lot more good will for America from the Iranian people than is portrayed in American media. If we bomb them, you can say good bye to that good will.
Why should they not be allowed nuclear capability? They will get it one way or another. Heck, why the hell did Bush trade secret nuclear technology to India for mangos?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:18 pmValiant
February 7th, 2007 at 9:19 pm“Social paradise of 1968″ VinceP is so lame. He’s probably all of 20 something and has no clue what it was like in 1968. It tweren’t no paradise that’s for sure.
Children: Why do you watch Fox?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:19 pmValiant
February 7th, 2007 at 9:20 pmIt’s great isn’t it. Our army fights Saudi Arabia’s war against IRan, and Saudi Arabia kills our soldiers. “Through a glass darkly” we go.
> and killed over 600,000 people
LOL, I love this one. So you’re saying 540 people died every single day for the past three years?
Are we talking about Iraq or Detroit?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:21 pmWebb is a smart man. At the very least, the posturing is meant to antagonize and intimidate. As should be readily apparent however, the Middle Easterners are a hard lot to impress with show of force and it only serves to piss ‘em off. We need to get rid of Bush, to get some diplomacy back into politics so that our brand of freedom isn’t defined by how pushy we can be in the schoolyard. That sort of behavior doesn’t win friends, it only makes the opposition want to mimic that same behavior. The repetition becomes laborious and self-defeating, George Bush, just like you.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:21 pmChildren: Why do you watch Fox?
Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Why are you a bush cultist?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:21 pmValiant “Social paradise of 1968″ VinceP is so lame. He’s probably all of 20 something and has no clue what it was like in 1968. It tweren’t no paradise that’s for sure. Comment by ChildrenofLir — February 7, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Yeah, either 20, or 60+ like Cheney and the rest of those draft dodging cowardly right wingnuts.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:22 pmLOL, I love this one. So you’re saying 540 people died every single day for the past three years?
Are we talking about Iraq or Detroit?
Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
How do we know we have a right wingnut cultist? They compare violence in Iraq with Detroit. The height of stupidity folks, here you go.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:23 pmValiant
It’s great isn’t it. Our army fights Saudi Arabia’s war against IRan, and Saudi Arabia kills our soldiers. “Through a glass darkly†we go.
Comment by ChildrenofLir — February 7, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
Yep, and there’s always some stupid duped wingnut like Vince that’s too clueless to get it.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:24 pmAshen: I’m well aware that the people aren’t going to be able to topple the regime. I was just giving up some words to wishful thinking. And I know that they aren’t going to overthrow their govt in the midst of a war.
This regime’s days are numbered, for a multitude of reasons. If they weren’t pursuing a eschatological nuclear program there wouldn’t be so much risk at letting them continue with thier nuclear work.
But now there’s a race, with two finish lines that are of an indeterminate date… does Iran get the bomb they need in order to fullfil thier religious mission, or do thier people overthrow them for the poverty striken hell the country has become.
It’s obvious why they shouldnt be allowed to have such a weapon. If you’re as knoweldgable about the place as you purport then you would know that answer.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:25 pmTP? Could you do something with this posters name? It is mischaracterizing someone elses name in a bad light.
Your attention to this matter is greatly appreciated.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:26 pmValiant: It’s called hyperbole. What you did is called “lie”.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:26 pmTP? Could you do something with this posters name?
ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
It is mischaracterizing someone elses name in a bad light.
Your attention to this matter is greatly appreciated.
ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus needs to be BANNED!
February 7th, 2007 at 9:28 pm“Our brand of freedom”
Which brand is that?
THis brand of freedom
Texas Requires Anti-Cancer Vaccine for Girls
http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/texas-requires-anti-cancer-vaccine-for/20070202172109990001
or this one
Initiative would require married couples to have kids
February 7th, 2007 at 9:28 pmOLYMPIA, Wash. — An initiative filed by proponents of same-sex marriage would require heterosexual couples to have kids within three years or else have their marriage annulled. `
http://www.krem.com/topstories/stories/krem2_020507_initiative957.54270de4.html
I want to clarify one thing I said:
> I’m well aware that the people aren’t going to be able to topple the regime
I meant for this to be in the context of the short-to-mid-term
>This regime’s days are numbered
I meant this in the long-term.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:31 pmValiant: It’s called hyperbole. What you did is called “lieâ€.
Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
And this post is called hypocrisy and double standards. The traits we can always count on from you ‘fellers’.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:32 pmIt is mischaracterizing someone elses name in a bad light.
Your attention to this matter is greatly appreciated.
ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus needs to be BANNED!
Comment by Molly Ivins — February 7, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
I suggest you read Roman Mythology. Venus did in fact grow from the God Uranus. Why must you have such a dirty mind mighty aphrodite?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:32 pmAshen
I think it’s so great (sarcasm) when Americans discuss whether or not another country’s government should be toppled.
We can’t even control our own government. Yet we think we’re in a position to intelligently and coolly discuss what the IRanians people should do. It’s the height of arrogance.
Maybe they could get the Shah’s son back. He’s roaming around looking for a dictatorship to fill.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:33 pmChildren: Iran attacked soverign US terrority in 1979. Iran has attacked the US Marines in Beirut via its proxy. Iran attacked US barracks at Khobar Towers via proxy. Iran funds Hezbellah, which was the #1 Islamic killer of Americans pre- 9/11.
Iran has been attacking us relentlessly.
Comment by Vince P
And that is eactly what we would do if Iran had a bunch of soldiers in Mexico, Canada, and Cuba.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:33 pmBut now there’s a race, with two finish lines that are of an indeterminate date… does Iran get the bomb they need in order to fullfil thier religious mission, or do thier people overthrow them for the poverty striken hell the country has become. Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
Destroying Islamic holy sites in Israel, and violating one of the core tenets of Islam you feel is a religious mission? Wow, for who, the Israelis?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:34 pmTime to go, my bf is coming over.
Thanks for the exchange of ideas.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:35 pm#76 Vince P.
I may not have been clear enough, so let me clarify. If we would let Iran alone and not have started in the first place with all this rhetoric against them, then the government would have nothing to pin on us. The people wouldn’t have an outside enemy, they would have their own government to blame. They would be more focused on issues such as the restrictive religious laws which the majority are against, and would see that even though their current president promised economic change, nothing much has happened and they are still in poverty due to the radical conservative posturing of the regime. Then they would rise up, and their would be a more liberal government to take the place of the nutso conservative one their now.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:35 pmWhat is funny is that despite everything, Ahmadinejad lost an important local election recently, so the people in Iran are slowly coming around through a democratic process. We should not interfere with this.
Time to go, my bf is coming over.
Thanks for the exchange of ideas.
Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
An exchange is bidirectional, you’re welcome for our efforts to educate you. When you can contribute an idea that’s original, your own, accurate, or frankly even relevant – that would be fantastic!
February 7th, 2007 at 9:38 pmThanks for the exchange of ideas
More like a one-sided bs session by VinceP
February 7th, 2007 at 9:38 pmChildren: Iran attacked soverign US terrority in 1979. Iran has attacked the US Marines in Beirut via its proxy. Iran attacked US barracks at Khobar Towers via proxy. Iran funds Hezbellah, which was the #1 Islamic killer of Americans pre- 9/11. Iran has been attacking us relentlessly. Comment by Vince P
So that was ‘after’ we overthrow their democratically elected government, and helped install a dictator by force? Is that war, or were they simply defending themselves?
If you’re going to count ‘proxy’ wars, the the US is at war with virtually everyone on the planet, including Iran! What about those separatist groups in Iraq that we supported to produce acts of terrorism in Iran? I can’t imagine why they’d respond in kind – can you?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:40 pmValiant
February 7th, 2007 at 9:40 pmYeah. If Vince could even stick to the same argument, it would be good. One minute Iranians are agin’ us, the next they love us’.. all the while claiming that it’s us ‘lefties’ who are confused. I don’t think so.
Stop Him Before He Kills More:
There’s a serial killer living in the White House…..
February 7th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
>Destroying Islamic holy sites in Israel, and violating one of the core tenets of Islam you feel is a religious mission? Wow, for who, the Israelis?
Valiant: Please explain to me your understanding of iranian gov’t’s understanding of the end time, from thier point of view.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:41 pmGerald is on the ball – put yourself in the shoes of an average Iranian and then ask yourself what you would do if an apparently hostile power, one which supported an odious dictatorship (and the SAVAK were nasty people) was sendind its big guns and talking tough every chance it got. You’d want your government to have a really big stick to hold…. there are no good options besides accepting reality ( as supplied by AQ khan under Dick Cheney’s nose) and deal with it – by talking and sending the ships home.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:41 pmAttack Iran and Pakistans Gen. Musharraf is toast.
Bomb Iran, that all estimates say is 8-10 years away from obtaining the “bomb”, and risk destabilizing Pakistan, which currently possess a nuclear arsenal and a missle delivery system.
Pretzel logic at it’s finest; no less from a president (bush), that nearly chocked on a pretzel.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:44 pmValiant
February 7th, 2007 at 9:45 pmPlease don’t explain the IRanian view of the end time. Somehow Vince is going to use it to argue that although the Iranians love us, they are going to destroy us.
you’re an adult? um ok.
Comment by Vince P —
Thats the best you have? Why don’t you defend yur position? Where are your facts? You are too easy to swat, thanks for the laugh. What is the flavor of the paste today?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:46 pmValiant: Please explain to me your understanding of iranian gov’t’s understanding of the end time, from thier point of view.
Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
It doesn’t involve the use of WMDs, or destroying Jerusalem. Battle refers to fighting, not genocide – that’s more of a ‘christian’ view of apocalypse, and you’re probably colored by your belief in the ‘rapture’.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:50 pmChock:
This is what I think will happen. (not what I want to happen, but what I think will happen).
Israel will destroy the Iranian facilities with tactical nukes. At the same time we will attack North Korean facilities. Pakistan is the wildcard , I think we would be attacking them too at the same time.
I think some anti-American actor (person/group) somewhere will have nukes in their possesion alrady and then will counterstrike.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:53 pmnow i’m late… going for real. nite.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:53 pmNew “End-Times Rapture” Cola, Capture the Rapture…
February 7th, 2007 at 9:56 pmVinceP talks like a bully. Blames the victim, in this case Iran, and ‘lefties’ for all the things the right-wing US and UK imperialist thugs have done to the world.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:57 pmBush is like the auto mechanics in the controversial Snicker’s commercial. They’re insecure and they try to prove their “manhood” through violence. Heaven help us all.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:02 pmWilly
February 7th, 2007 at 10:06 pmPerhaps that is all we can do, Pray for an other worldly intervention. Certainly Congress is too cowardly to do anything except pretend with non-binding resolutions. They are selling us out for money and power.
More like a one-sided bs session by VinceP
Comment by ChildrenofLir — February 7, 2007 @ 9:38 pm
i was just scrolling through, thinking the same thing…
this should’ve been a rousing, fun and interesting thread,
but it turned into the vinnie show…
good on webb! more! more!!!
February 7th, 2007 at 10:08 pmChildrenofLur,
Perhaps I can introduce you to my subject of, “there’s really no difference between the Dems and Repubs.”?
I always get a response on that one.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:10 pm1968-interesting year. Let’s see, we had…..Laugh-In, Tet,LBJ throwin’ in the towel, MLK & RFK assassinated, race riots, police riot at the Democratic National Convention(compliments of Mayor Richard Daly-swell host), hippies, yippies, Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, the Chicago 8 trial, trickie Dick elected. Yup-lots of stuff going down then. I was there, I saw it on the radio( and tv).
February 7th, 2007 at 10:11 pmMolly, lolly, folly, lolly, polly, jolly, dolly, golly, nanny, nanny, pants.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:17 pmdid you listen to randi’s show, for truth?
February 7th, 2007 at 10:18 pmUncle Ho
February 7th, 2007 at 10:19 pmAnd don’t forget the lottery draft.
did you listen to randi’s show, for truth?
Comment by katy
No, I never got around to it. I gather it was about how there are, lets say, “similarities” between Dems and Repubs?
February 7th, 2007 at 10:26 pmchildrenoflir; ooops, you’re right, my bad, especially since I was drafted.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:28 pmAre they log cabin republicans?
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Vinnie P is a gay dude, and his boyfriend is coming over.
Pretty straight forward, I think.
I crack myself up….
February 7th, 2007 at 10:48 pmGot Elvis? ; funny that you brought that up……The King(Elvis) was spotted a couple of days ago in Detroit…..not in a KFC though, but at McDonald’s.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:50 pmZooey, you crack me up too. :D
February 7th, 2007 at 10:51 pmWTF? First rachel states that it is the “hottest tranny on the thread, then Vince P. shes it’s boyfriend is coming over. Wow, these folks are strange. Are they log cabin republicans?
Comment by Spudge_Boy
If you recall Tim Mcveigh and the Elohim group the crossdresser was accepted as long as it accepted their views. So no, I am not suprise at the hypocrisy of those two, or one, or three as the case may be.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:08 pmSeriously, Vinnie is a gay dude. He said so himself, and once posted a link to his 365gay page. It’s got nothing to do with rachel.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:10 pmWTF? First rachel states that it is the “hottest tranny on the thread, then Vince P. shes it’s boyfriend is coming over. Wow, these folks are strange. Are they log cabin republicans?
Comment by Spudge_Boy — February 7, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
Could be his -B- est -F- riend too.
Just sayin…
February 7th, 2007 at 11:25 pmI never know if I should bother trying to explain something to Vince P. I hate to interrupt the debate he’s having with the strawman. But then again, I guess it wouldn’t matter. He usually just keeps arguing with the strawman anyway.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:44 pmhttp://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2007_cr/hr770.html
February 7th, 2007 at 11:47 pm110th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 770
JM,
Cool. Thanks for the link. It’s about damned time.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:53 pmIsrael will destroy the Iranian facilities with tactical nukes. At the same time we will attack North Korean facilities. Pakistan is the wildcard , I think we would be attacking them too at the same time.
I think some anti-American actor (person/group) somewhere will have nukes in their possesion alrady and then will counterstrike.
Comment by Vince P — February 7, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
Then you better start working out and prepare to be drafted boy blunder.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:57 pmWebb is wrong. We routinely operate carriers in the Gulf. I have been on one there. I have been out of the military for 10 years now. (Thankfully). I agree with the fear though, it looks like we will be at war with Iran if the neocons get their way.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:57 pmJet Mech,
Are you gonna join TP’s facebook thing?
February 8th, 2007 at 12:00 amJM,
Cool. Thanks for the link. It’s about damned time.
Comment by Zooey
YW, I don’t expect it to get much, if any, media attention though.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:01 amYW, I don’t expect it to get much, if any, media attention though.
Comment by Jet Mech
It’s nice to know someone is trying to do something about that maniac.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:07 amjesus.
Let the fools like Vince P, MA/Rachel, and michael blather on with their delirious tripe.
Hey trolls, nobody strives to be a fool. No one.
The more you open your mouths, or flex your tap a tap fingers on the keyboard,
the more the majority of the population will try to find out just what the hell is really
going on. The deeper they dig, the closer they get to the truth, the less power
you idiots will have over them.
Your time is up. You had your chance to lower the collective bar to fit your
own personal agenda. It shows in your posts. Fools like you may know how
to type–and you do a lot of it–but you haven’t figured out how to convince.
Nobody sets out to be a sucker. When they find out they’ve been taken
for one… things can get pretty ugly.
Keep up the shoddy work. I, for one, can’t wait for you to get what you’ve earned.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:14 amJet Mech, Are you gonna join TP’s facebook thing?
Comment by Zooey
I support the facebook project, but I suck at internet relationships. (email etc) I will look into it however. =)
February 8th, 2007 at 12:15 amWebb is wrong. We routinely operate carriers in the Gulf. I have been on one there. I have been out of the military for 10 years now. (Thankfully). I agree with the fear though, it looks like we will be at war with Iran if the neocons get their way.
Comment by Rick
what can you tell us of the strait of Hormuz and its relationship to the passage of oil Rick?
February 8th, 2007 at 12:17 amI support the facebook project, but I suck at internet relationships. (email etc) I will look into it however. =)
Comment by Jet Mech
You mean you don’t want to go steady with me?
Kidding…. :)
February 8th, 2007 at 12:19 amYou mean you don’t want to go steady with me?
But I already had the bracelet made!! =)
February 8th, 2007 at 12:22 am*Note, so that someone snarky doesn’t say “ah ha! you pasted that!” no crap… so I’m stating the obvious,.. I’m pasting this from somewhere*
The Strait Of Hormuz is the world’s second busiest international strait. The key to the Central Command area is to maintain uninterrupted access to energy resources. The Persian Gulf region contains roughly 68% of the world’s known oil and natural gas reserves. Nearly 25% of the world’s oil supply flows through the Strait of Hormuz on a daily basis. Over 75% of Japan’s oil passes through the Strait of Hormuz. Oil flows through the Strait of Hormuz account for roughly two-fifths of all world traded oil. The Energy Information Administration projects that oil exports through the Strait of Hormuz will double from approximately 15 million barrels of oil in 2005 to 30-34 million barrels per day by 2020, suggesting that ensuring the free flow of oil through the Strait will continue to be an important mission.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:23 amAhh, FaceBook.
A hackers paradise.
Now I will know all that is P*E*R*S*O*N*A*L about my friends here at TP
I think I have written a few programs to reveal all on that site….ah, yes, here they are.
nyuk
nyuk
nyuk
Don`t go anywhere I wouldn`t. I will own your computer as I already do most TP posters.
Free access to all computers that you posters operate is my lifes goal.
Happy surfing!
Bwahahaha!!
February 8th, 2007 at 12:23 amRachel your the worst hack ever, you still think I am Barfly, and if you were a hack you would know that was wrong.
Ya lamer.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:25 amSo then Vince are the carriers there to secure the strait of Hormuz or to attack Iran?
February 8th, 2007 at 12:26 amBut I already had the bracelet made!! =)
Comment by Jet Mech
Oh my, such a fast mover. Heh.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:27 amDon`t go anywhere I wouldn`t. I will own your computer as I already do most TP posters.
Your eyes are turning brown your so full of S__t
February 8th, 2007 at 12:27 amNow I will know all that is P*E*R*S*O*N*A*L about my friends here at TP
Rache is Gladys Kravitz lol
February 8th, 2007 at 12:28 amYour eyes are turning brown your so full of S__t
Comment by Jet Mech
So that’s what causes brown eyes. Hmm. I’m pretty full of sh*t, but I guess I never topped eye level.
Heh.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:31 amhttp://www.harpiesbizarre.com/castaway/castaway%20gladys%20pearce.jpg
Heres a picture of Rachel Kravitz
February 8th, 2007 at 12:31 amJM,
Linkee no workee
February 8th, 2007 at 12:34 amVince, you didn’t answer my question from the other thread. Don’t worry, it is only multiple choice, so I am sure you can manage it:
Which do you recommend for Iran:
1. Massive sustained air strikes
2. Ground war
3. Tactical nukes
4. All of the above
And by the way, tell us a little bit about what sort of military service you are contributing to the cause.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:35 am>So then Vince are the carriers there to secure the strait of Hormuz or to attack Iran?
Yes
February 8th, 2007 at 12:38 amSo that’s what causes brown eyes. Hmm. I’m pretty full of sh*t, but I guess I never topped eye level.
Heh.
You Zooey have a great sense of humour.
Rachel thinks she is some kind of crush your skull psychotherapist hacker, but isn’t. Rachel thinks a font can ‘tack’ you.
Watch.
Yo Rachel what is my IP address?
February 8th, 2007 at 12:38 amJM,
Linkee no workee
Comment by Zooe
Yeh, stoopit google. lol.
Google images Gladys Kravitz
February 8th, 2007 at 12:39 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Kravitz
Better Yet.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:39 am146 see 52
February 8th, 2007 at 12:40 amSo then Vince are the carriers there to secure the strait of Hormuz or to attack Iran?
Yes
And how do you ‘know’ this?
February 8th, 2007 at 12:40 amYes Vince I read it.
Google TIRANNT
February 8th, 2007 at 12:43 amWhat else would a carrier be doing there other than to either attack someone or protect the surroundings?
February 8th, 2007 at 12:43 amYou Zooey have a great sense of humour.
Thank you, JM. I’d be in a rubber room without it. :)
Yo Rachel what is my IP address?
Comment by Jet Mech
Cool. Watching…..
February 8th, 2007 at 12:44 amGoogle images Gladys Kravitz
Comment by Jet Mech
Ok, now I remember who that is.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:46 amThat was every mom in every neighborhood I grew up in. Geez….
Yo Rachel what is my IP address?
Comment by Jet Mech
Cool. Watching…..
Comment by Zooey
Im gonna mix a white russian while waiting for the reply =)
February 8th, 2007 at 12:46 amWhat else would a carrier be doing there other than to either attack someone or protect the surroundings?
Comment by Vince P
Playing chicken maybe?
February 8th, 2007 at 12:47 amVince, your post #52 (now #51) is constructed of wall-to-wall misrepresentations, false dichotomies, and straw man arguments. Exactly what I would expect from you.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:48 amI just read some of the comments after I left..
I’m gay. I’m not a Republican. I’m a classical conservative . I’m not a social conservative. I’m 31. I’m Italian-American. I hate when women hit on me.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:50 am157: So be it. Thanks for all the specifics you used to show point by point how wrong I was. I’m pursuaded
February 8th, 2007 at 12:51 amOk, now I remember who that is.
That was every mom in every neighborhood I grew up in. Geez….
Comment by Zooey
Yeah a snoop like Rachel.
Why do people snoop on others? Cause they aint got no life of their own.
Right Rachel?
February 8th, 2007 at 12:52 am>Playing chicken maybe?
It takes two to play chicken.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:53 am157: So be it. Thanks for all the specifics you used to show point by point how wrong I was. I’m pursuaded
No, do not be persuaded think for yourself =)
February 8th, 2007 at 12:54 amI hate when women hit on me.
Comment by Vince P
Naturally.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:54 amVince,
The question isn’t whether Iran is a threat or not. The question is what to do about it. Your preferred neocon approach has proven a failure of historical proportions, but apparently you are incapable of recognizing that. So you favor more of the same from Bush: destroying our military, turning the entire world against us, committing war crimes, using torture, destroying the Constitution, etc.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:55 amWell, I’m off to bed, after a long day of hacking and wheezing.
Exhausting….
Goodnight!
February 8th, 2007 at 12:56 amWithout my C# compiler, my typing is insufferable.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:57 amPlaying chicken maybe?
It takes two to play chicken.
Comment by Vince P
Aye, but here is the clencher
February 8th, 2007 at 12:57 amIran Readies Plan to Close Strait of Hormuz
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/2/28/181730.shtml?s=lh
I’m 31.
Comment by Vince P — February 8, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Congratulations, Vince! 31 years old is prime recruiting age. Get down to your local recruiters office tomorrow morning and sign up to fight in Iran.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:57 amI hate when women hit on me.
Comment by Vince P
Naturally.
Comment by Zooey
OWWCHHH!!
February 8th, 2007 at 12:58 amWell, I’m off to bed, after a long day of hacking and wheezing.
Exhausting….
Goodnight!
Comment by Zooey
GN Zooey. Take care.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:59 am>The question isn’t whether Iran is a threat or not.
I’m not sure what you mean. Do you mean
1 – The question is irrelevent , or
2 – There is no question or doubt… Iran is a threat.
I can’t answer the question unless I understand it.
>The question is what to do about it.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:59 amhttp://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2007_hr/011107transcript.pdf
verbalkint is probably correct
February 8th, 2007 at 1:00 amVerbalKint : Congrats , you use stupid tactics to avoid addressing issues.. move to France.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:00 amVerbant, after you stupid “enlist” comment, I rescind my request for clarification. I’m done talking to you.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:02 amRemember when we shot down a CIVILIAN plane during the 80s killing scores of Iranians? We were safeguarding the straight (the two sides were mining it and attacking tankers etc during their war).
We shot it down because we thought it was a threat but the aircraft was not. The captain of the ship actually ended up getting a medal (they generally do that) and nothing really came of the incident except that 1. our identification/threat identification systems are flawed and 2. it’s bad PR when you kill over 100 Iranians (or any other civilians) in that kind of screwup.
It’s arguably worse now because the air defence systems are more automated than they were then (they were automated then but more time for human reaction before the defence system engaged). You have the mid/long range defences and then you have the short range system that is TOTALLY AUTOMATIC (no intervention) that consists of miniguns. It’s short range though so no real problems unless some boater came a bit to close etc.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:04 amI’m gay. I’m not a Republican. I’m a classical conservative . I’m not a social conservative. I’m 31. I’m Italian-American. I hate when women hit on me.
I doubt they were hitting on you, besides neo-cons are basically socialist democrats
February 8th, 2007 at 1:04 amGood post James. Food for thought.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:07 ambedtime. bi.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:11 amThe question isn’t whether Iran is a threat or not.
I’m not sure what you mean. Do you mean
1 – The question is irrelevent , or
2 – There is no question or doubt… Iran is a threat.
I can’t answer the question unless I understand it.
>The question is what to do about it.
Iran is a decade away from a nuke. The question is not irrelavent. Iran is a threat because oil is seen as national security, not neccessarily because of a nuke. The strait of Hormuz if mined threatens national security. (oil) And really there is no correct answer. =)
February 8th, 2007 at 1:12 amWithout my C# compiler, my typing is insufferable.
Comment by Vince P
what does a C++ compiler have to do with your typing? You can get the firefox browser and it will spell check as you type.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:17 amI’m using a RSS program I made myself that has an embedded COM IE component. I never looked into if FF is modularized like that.
Maybe I’ll work on a spell checker, i was running out of ideas.
And there is no correct answer, I agree with you. I’m too tired to talk about war now though.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:27 amOh regarding the compilier… in Visual Studio all I need to do is type the first few letters of a word and the rest of the word fills in without having to type it all… so when I have to type real words I’m still expecting taht to happen.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:28 amOh regarding the compilier… in Visual Studio all I need to do is type the first few letters of a word and the rest of the word fills in without having to type it all… so when I have to type real words I’m still expecting taht to happen.
Comment by Vince P
mozilla.org
February 8th, 2007 at 3:00 amAnd Rachel Vince you have been identified as a possible terrorist.
Good luck.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:09 amHow did you know I’m on the SSSS list?
February 8th, 2007 at 3:12 amJimmy is right.The neocons will sink two or three of their own aircraft carriers in order to start Iran’s invasion without congress authorization.
This b*stards did the same thing in Pearl Harbour.Not fiction, but reality.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:57 amWe need more Webbs and less Clintons.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:56 amAlso, since Congress is comatose and the neocons refuse to listen to anyone, we need to call for international sanctions against the US, including an embargo pending regime change and a return to civilized norms of behavior. As it is, the US poses a clear and present danger to world peace and the future of human existance.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:59 amWe need more Webbs and less Clintons.
Thats the 100% solution.
February 8th, 2007 at 7:04 amThis man reminds me of ” Old America” and he is a true American. Thank God he is in DC.
February 8th, 2007 at 7:34 amJet Mech:
Thanks for your idea about the spelling thing, I have my windows RSS program monitoring the webpage now and doing spell check on the fly.
screenshot
http://home.comcast.net/~vincep312/spell.jpg
February 8th, 2007 at 8:42 amI know one thing… I dont want any more Clintons or Bushes as President.
February 8th, 2007 at 8:43 amAfter much research , Into the engine driving this machine we call the Fedral Government into the abys, I have discovered that the White paper for the war in Iraq, Iran, Syria and the coming World War 3 was written in 1997 and theat was the “PNAC” Project For The New American Century, it stated in the “PNAC” that absent a cataclysmic event like a New Pearl Harbour the build up in the Gulf would be a gradual process absent a Cataclysmic event well people that event came 9/11. In addition on the House Floor last week congressman (R) Ron Paul warned of a New False Flag “Terrorist” event like a Gulf of Tonkin type incident to get the American people behind war with IRAN!! Wake UP AMERIKA!!
February 8th, 2007 at 10:13 am> Reports suggest that Russia hassold 29 anti-aircraft missiles to Iran,
> despite U.S. protests…
> …I’d venture to guess that there will be a number of sophisticated
> weapons sales from China and russia to Iran before this is over…
Testing times, then? Here’s hoping Iran wrecks at least one CVN.
> Attack Iran and Pakistans Gen. Musharraf is toast.
> Bomb Iran, that all estimates say is 8-10 years away from obtaining
> the “bombâ€, and risk destabilizing Pakistan, which currently possess
> a nuclear arsenal and a missle delivery system.
Quite so. Though the missile delivery system does not yet reach Amerika. So the bravery of staying out range can still be maintained somewhat.
February 8th, 2007 at 11:21 ambedtime. bi.
Comment by Vince P #179
…you can sleep?
…Oh yeah, that’s right…
…you’ve never been awake…
February 8th, 2007 at 12:05 pm…..hard to believe we are the same America that stared down the USSR for 30 years, while it bristled with real big piles of every kind of weapon on earth……
here we are in the “new century”, pissing our pants over ragtag bands of fourth rate, 3rd world kooks. f*cking shameful…..forced to be a nation cowardly pussies by a bunch of cowardly pussies who work in media and government – i’m sure our pioneering, war-fighting ancestors would be really proud….
February 8th, 2007 at 12:51 pmDoes anyone think that China’s destruction of one of their own satellites was not related to our carriers entering the Persian Gulf? China is at least 20% dependent on Iran’s fossil fuels. Iran has the greatest or one the greatest combined reserves of oil and natural gas in the world.
The CIA and the British intelligence overthrew the democratically elected President Mossadeq in 1952 because he wanted to nationalize Iran’s oil reserves. We installed the Shah in his place. What makes you think that criminals within our own government would not attempt do the same once more?
February 8th, 2007 at 1:07 pmi’m sure our pioneering, war-fighting ancestors would be really proud….
Comment by tom baker #198
tom,
…are there bullets whizzing past your head…
…and various ordnance exploding around you as you type?
…if not STFU and enlist… NOW!
…you miserable pc thumping coward…
February 8th, 2007 at 1:36 pmbig papa,
come get some you little puss bitch.
February 8th, 2007 at 2:57 pmWebb, like his predecessors *cough* John Kennedy will meet with a
” sudden invocation * Bwahahahahaha!!!
February 8th, 2007 at 2:59 pmBig Papa,
If you’re in the sh*t, I commend you and service, and I understand why you’d be offended…
But you need to WTFU, man. T.Baker isn’t talking about boots-on-the-ground, he’s talking about the Draft-Dodging Chairbornes in D.C. that keep sending Joes to die to test out their f-ing PolySci thesis. If you’re a temporary resident of the Green Zone there’s no doubt Iran is a threat to you, but to argue that Iran is a massive threat to the CONUS IS f-ing LUDICROUS, and it IS just PUSSY. The maggots who are shredding the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights that survived Lenin, Hitler, and Stalin for a mosquito like Saddam and a gnat like Ahmadinejad are the ones you should be calling miserable cowards.
And don’t bother telling me to enlist. I took my 214 in ‘06 and ran with the SOB. I’m no coward, and I’d be honored to haul ass downrange for the country I love, but I’ll be Gaddamned before I orphan my kids to pad Lee Raymond’s Stock Options or let my blood pave the way for the Rise of the House of Saud.
Oh, and if you happen to BE one of those Potomac Theater Rear Admirals, big papa…we’ll, if the shoe fits…
February 8th, 2007 at 3:11 pmBig Papa – I’m doing the right thing by fighting the real enemy here at home. You.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:23 pmAnyone on this thread who does not believe we are about to wage war against Iran is blind. Stop listening to what you are told on the news & read!
There is far to much evidence to support this. Find it.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:23 pmSlouch’
…we may have more in common than you think…
…tom baker sounded like a warmongering Bushite to me…
…I don’t want war with Iran, Iraq, afghanistan, Baluchistan, or New Jersey Stan…
…leave people the fu*k alone and I’m sure they’ll return the favor…
tom and Slouch read any of my posts…\
…then maybe you’ll realize where I stand…
February 8th, 2007 at 3:36 pmBTW slouch,
Congrats on your ETS…
…make plenty of copies of that 214…
…and pray they don’t call you back up…
February 8th, 2007 at 3:40 pmComment by TP Terrorist #201
hahahahaha!!!
How terrifying huh?
February 8th, 2007 at 3:41 pm206 – big P, i think you misunderestimated me there, and I you.
My point was that, judging them by their own warmongering, tough-guy standards, today’s hawks are cowardly pussies who should be slapped, shamed, and put in the dictionary under the definition of disgraceful.
I retract my reply to your invitation to enlist.
Let’s both continue to fight the real enemy here at home.
February 8th, 2007 at 4:33 pmDon’t worry so much. The Iranians warned that an attack on Iran would be met by actions against “American interests” worldwide. In a Corporate State, such as America, this threat trumps everything. I’m sure Halliburton et al. will soon be visiting the White House and telling their employee to cool it.
February 8th, 2007 at 4:43 pmSen. Webb’s fears are entirely founded…as a seasoned and knowledgeable professional, he has a grasp of this situation that the armchair neocon chessplayers could never fathom or reason out…get rid of these creeps running the show before they run it into the ground like they did Iraq!!!!!
February 8th, 2007 at 4:45 pmass meet hat
hat meet ass
eh big papa?
you are a fool!
February 8th, 2007 at 4:59 pmtom baker,
I likewise had a chance to read some of your posts on other threads…
…I apologize for jumping the gun as well…
…”friendly fire”…
…DAMN I hate it when that happens…
February 8th, 2007 at 8:54 pmTo those who support the war and think it’s a game, all I can say to you is God help you cause you’re gonna need it.
February 9th, 2007 at 2:42 amimpeachment
February 9th, 2007 at 10:41 pmThe Middle east is the last place that I would want to see nuclear weapons. The place is too volatile and there are too many long standing grievances between countries. The United Nations and the US must not allow nuclear weapons to be in the hands of mid-eastern nations.
February 10th, 2007 at 6:58 pmDand: It’s obvious you hate humankind and are no better than the staph bacterium.
/sarcasm
February 10th, 2007 at 8:44 pm“The United Nations and the US must not allow nuclear weapons to be in the hands of mid-eastern nations.”
February 10th, 2007 at 11:54 pmI agree, now lets get UN inspectors into Israel.
Why are we even talking about a hypothetical goal of nuclear weapons in a country that has allowed inspetions? When – Isreal Already has them, and has never allowed any country access or inspeection? Israel has misused weapons (cluster bombs), will nucs’ be next? Nucs out of the middle east – nucs out of Israel.
Propietus: The answer is simple:
Israel never signed the NPT, and Iran did.
Iran has made international committments and has a responsiblity to adhere to them , in addition, Iran signed the UN Charter which forbids expressions of Genocide, which the Pres of Iran has been doing.
Isreal has had nuclear weapons for a while and even has nuclear submarines.. Israel is a responsible human-life revering State. Iran is run by a Islamic death cult messianc clergy.
February 11th, 2007 at 12:19 am