Bill Donohue’s guff is par for the Irish course. Quite recently the Irish Parliament , the nearest thing to a Vatican camp for fairies, decided to yoke the taxpayer with the expenses of the widespread clerical paedophilia promoted by the Irish Bishops.

And if you ask them why they would not help the poor Jews? Why they ratlined the Nazis? Why the Bishops lied about pedophilia? And why did the Irish State decided to pay for the clerical buggers? The answer is ever the same: a kind of Bill Donohoe joke and a sneer, secure that Opus Dei and the Knights of Columbanus or the Knights of Malta, or some other secret shower of old farts are running the country.

If all the secret members of Opus Dei were to declare their subvertion of the secular state and were asked to resign beccasue of it, there woiuldn’t be a Judge, a Minister, a Professor, a Police Chief or a Senior Civil Servant left in the land. Dan Brown doesn’t know the half of it…. but Bill Donohoe might!!!

Seamus Breathnach

www. irishcriminology.com

During the 2004 presidential campaign, George Bush’s Catholic outreach coordinator, 54-year-old Deal Hudson, was outed as a sexual predator for taking advantage of a drunken 18-year old while he was a professor….

Re: “Thou shalt not kill” / “Thou shalt not murder”. Kill is well established by tradition, but the original Hebrew does not agree. Indeed, without going into language, it should be enough to recognize that they had many crimes for which the penalty was death to show that they did not ban all killing.

But, to go into the language, Wikipedia says:

The Hebrew word for “kill” is “הרג” – “harog”, while the Hebrew word for “murder” is “רצח” – “retzach”, which is found in the Ten Commandments “לא תרצח” – “lo tirtzach”.

The Greek of the Septuagint has “ου φονεύσεις” (phoneuseis). (It looks like the smooth breathing sign over “ou” got lost — I hope the unicode characters don’t otherwise get too messed up.)

According to the Middle Liddell (via perseus.tufts.edu), phoneuseis is a form of phoneuw: to murder, kill, slay, which in turn is derived from phoneus: a murderer, slayer, homicide. They are related to the words phoneuths, phoneutria: murderer, murderess.

Someone upthread asked, isn’t it “kill”, and when had it been changed. The answer is, it was changed when the Hebrew word for murder was translated by the Septuagint (q.v.) into a Greek word which normally means murder, but can also simply mean kill or slay, and then when that Greek word was translated into Latin and into English.

For what it’s worth, I’m an atheist and don’t get my ethics out of the writings of the ancient Hebrews, but just because you’ve always heard “thou shalt not kill” that does not necessarily mean you should refuse to exchange your old mumpsimus for this new sumpsimus. Verbum sap.

Read posts 86 & 100

What are you 12? That is such a juvenile thing to say.

Besides, no it isn’t. And I didn’t call you any names. I only pointed out that you are not that bright. Sometimes truth hurts.

And you can keep crying about it like the pretend victim you think you are. But it won’t help your credibility, which is fastly approaching zero.

my views may denegrate myself, but why must you? i dont question ur intelligence b/c u believe what u believe, why must u? Intelligent people can disagree on many things.

I don’t denegrate you. I just am tired of people like you thinking you are better than others (don’t deny it), and therefore have the right to force your beliefs on them/us – so I am simply pointing out the gaping holes in your absurd belief system, so you will think twice before spouting your smug and patronizing rhetoric to others.

Jesus said keep it to yourself. So until you do – it’s fair game for dissection.

You don’t even know why you believe what you believe. I know exactly why I think what I think. Just having a conversation with me about religion, when you don’t know what you’re talking about makes you look like a fool.

Wanna stop looking like a fool? Stop making up crap and expecting a thinking person of logic and reason to buy it.

but u dont know really what we believe, or maybe u werent taught ur fatih correctly.

I get that your reading comprehension is lacking, but for the fifth time – I know more about what the Catholic church believes than you.

You can try tired cliches over and over thinking that repeating yourself somehow makes you honest. It doesn’t work here.

u claim to know what we believe. just scroll up and see what u have accused us of believing and then actually go and research and find out – u obviously wont believe me.

I don’t have to believe you. I expect proof. As you seem incapable of getting – I don’t do believe.

And I have proof – 35 years in the Catholic Church.

I know EXACTLY what you believe. I just reject it. It’s the fact that I get it and still reject it that you cannot accept. And so you keep trying to rationalize why I do not accept it. I’ve heard your inane postulates all before… So get this – I get it. I know 110% what you believe. I just reject it because it is NONSENSE.

“i am delusional” – that is a fact? now that kind of is unscientific.

Not at all. Your posts are hard facts that you are delusional. The fact that you can’t see it is further proof of your delusional state.

science – i did specify, but indeed i only said i accept what science proves. most of science is not theories. most of science invloves proofs.

No, you didn’t. It’s posted in black and white that you did not. Are you that forgetful or just a really bad liar?

You don’t even know what a theory is. LOL.

Seriously, how much of a fool do you wish to be?

scientific method. it may start with a theory, a hypothesis… but mostly science results with proofs, not unprovable theories.

LOL. You are cracking me up with your own bad definitions of theory. Ever hear of a dictionary? Or are you too lazy to open one?

Here:

theory

a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; “theories incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses”; “true in fact and theory”

but i can accept scientific theories as well… i’m not ignorant. i understand there can be much scientific basis for an unprovable theory to be viewed as true. but we would have to get specific when discussing which ones i accept.

You are ignorant (need a definition on that one also?). You can’t even type the word ‘you’. Yet you expect us to think you’re a phD student? Come on, you might be gullable, but I assure you, we aren’t.

exactly – science cannot explain why.

I didn’t say that. I said that Science does not waste itself with why, because there is NO WHY.

U have the right to deny God because science cannot prove its existence…

Again, I am not “denying” god(s). It would be like denying other things that don’t exist like flying invisible unicorns, talking dragons and other such biblical fabrications. That would be silly.

I don’t believe in any god. That’s different.

The fact that you do not comprehend is further explanation for why you believe in things that do not exist.

but i have faith in God, so the why is answered. Science has not extinguished God, and u can google any survey of scientists and belief in God to see the results.

You have faith in make-believe characters? That gives you a why? And you don’t get that you are delusional? LOL Everything you post is devoid of reality – that’s the very definition of delusional (www.dictionary.com).

Science has not extinguished herpes either… LOL

read, most recently – “Big Bang”, Singh.
not so recent… Darwin, Hawking, alot of unfication theory books/articles.
Comment by not an idiot — February 10, 2007 @ 12:02 pm

ROTFL. And I bet a million dollars you don’t even know why…

Okay, I’ll explain… ruin the joke… but there will be others… you can’t seem to help it.

You claimed to LOVE Science (no one rational LOVES Science like that), yet you’ve recently read just one elementary undergraduate level book on one aspect of Science by one author/entertainer. That is exactly contrary to Science!

You might be fooling yourself, but you DEFINITELY aren’t fooling me. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Most religious nuts don’t.

my views may denegrate myself, but why must you? i dont question ur intelligence b/c u believe what u believe, why must u? Intelligent people can disagree on many things.

but u dont know really what we believe, or maybe u werent taught ur fatih correctly. u claim to know what we believe. just scroll up and see what u have accused us of believing and then actually go and research and find out – u obviously wont believe me.

“i am delusional” – that is a fact? now that kind of is unscientific.

science – i did specify, but indeed i only said i accept what science proves. most of science is not theories. most of science invloves proofs. scientific method. it may start with a theory, a hypothesis… but mostly science results with proofs, not unprovable theories. but i can accept scientific theories as well… i’m not ignorant. i understand there can be much scientific basis for an unprovable theory to be viewed as true. but we would have to get specific when discussing which ones i accept.

exactly – science cannot explain why. U have the right to deny God because science cannot prove its existence… but i have faith in God, so the why is answered. Science has not extinguished God, and u can google any survey of scientists and belief in God to see the results.

read, most recently – “Big Bang”, Singh.
not so recent… Darwin, Hawking, alot of unfication theory books/articles.

What’s with the making crap up? I’ve not been hateful. Hateful is typing complete sentances in all caps and using exclamation points. If you’re assuming that, then well, you know what they say about ass-u-me…

This is such an obvious trick when you religious people have painted yourselves in a corner – throw yourselves into the fetal position and cry foul play like a coward. The only person insulting you is you.

Your views denegrate themselves. It’s part of being religious.

i am just telling u what we believe. u obviously do not know, and think that you do. here’s whats been posted thus far that is incorrrect.

I know exactly what you believe. Fairytales that go against reality. Again, you’ve only been Catholic for a few years. I was Catholic for about 35 years. I know more about it than you.

You are delusional. That’s not an insult, it is a fact. Facts aren’t always pleasant.

i could go on…

Why? You’re so far behind in this disccussion that you’ll never catch up. Better to quit while you’re just at “not credible” troll and before you become “raging lunatic” troll.

as for science… i said i accept proofs, not theories.

No, you didn’t specify. That’s my point. That you don’t know what you are talking about.

Most of Science is based on theories. You can’t accept Science if you reject Scientific theories (or even know what one is… which from your response proves you don’t).

science cannot explain why the universe was created and if did expel God, certainly many many scientists didnt get the memo.

Science accepts that their is NO WHY, and doesn’t waste its time with such nonsense. There is no prupose or reason, and the fact that you need one shows how fragile you are, and therefore why you need a sky daddy to placate your fear of reality.

since many, if not most, of them believe in God

That’s a blantant lie. Most of them do not believe in any god.

again u assume i dont read non-fiction science books. those are my favorite.
Comment by not an idiot — February 10, 2007 @ 10:56 am

Oh really… What have you read?

Iraq war- against catholic doctrine
Immaculate conception – a few times completely defined inaccurately
catholics take the bible literally
we dont accept science
murder and war are the same
many times words/phrases from the bible not understood – i.e. breath, murder/kill, Genesis
that we accept intelligent design and not evolution
i could go on…

as for science… i said i accept proofs, not theories. science cannot explain why the universe was created and if did expel God, certainly many many scientists didnt get the memo, since many, if not most, of them believe in God.

again u assume i dont read non-fiction science books. those are my favorite.

Just ‘moron’ works too :D

Either from a home-schooled university, or he/she is lying.

This person doesn’t possess the reasoning or logic skills to support him or her being accepted into a valid university system.

There is a difference. A BIG one.

You should say accept. But, then you have to be specific about what you are accepting, as there is not always one theory.

i leave science to the scientists, and accept what they prove – not blindly follow what they say. I dont blindly follow religion – i found myself in the Catholic Church only 4 years ago – looks like we did a switcharoo. How can i blindly follow when i was never lead. I found it myself.

Tripping over the curb is not the same as finding it.

So you switched from one absurd dogma to another. Big deal. It’s like changing from one big box grocery store to another. Doesn’t require much intellect…

You may say many things – but it doesn’t mean you act in accordance with your opinions. Because, frankly, you don’t walk your talk. And you cannot defend it either.

science cannot explain away creation – only when it happened and how we the universe evolved.

Yes it can. It’s why most scientifically minded people are Atheists and Agnostics. Because Science gives better explanations that don’t rely on suspending reality.

contradiction?? I said true, meaning truth presented allegorically, but not scientifically accurate. it is a creation story, not a scientific history of facts.

You’re still not getting this. Allegory is a poetic representation of the facts, not a complete fabrication of them. In no way is Genesis an allegory. It’s speculation that Science has disproven.

it was said i take all things in the bible literally. stories/mythology is not literal. the laws are literal. it is a mix.

It is a fairytale.

lesson: breathe, the hebrew definition of the noun = spririt, not air to breathe. man was given his soul at this moment, not air. when used to describe leaving no one the breathes means dead – for when u no longer breathe u die. U got what we get with breath, oxygen, from ur mother when u r in the womb. it has nothing to with breath (air).

You can make it up as you go, but I’m NOT falling for it. The problem with belief systems is that you can make stuff up. That is CONTRARY to Science where you have to offer proven facts that you cannot spin and twist to fit your pre-conceived mold.

Science starts with a blank slate and then, after examining the facts, draws a conclusion. Religion starts with a conclusion and then twists reality to support it. They are diametrically opposed.

i’ll pray for u to return to the church.

You are wasting your time. I’d sooner go back to the hypocritical, irrational and violent church than a free man would go back to the gulag.

Besides, free will (and reality) assure that your prayers cannot affect me. No more than my knowledge can affect your willful ignorance.

take care all. it has been fun.
Comment by not an idiot — February 9, 2007 @ 8:48 pm

Not really.

You have clearly not read all of my posts on this thread. Please review the thread and then comment again. Thank you.