‘It would be nice to have a secret government.’
By on Feb 12th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
‘It would be nice to have a secret government.’
The New Yorker profiles “24″ creator Joel Surnow, whose show has become a foreign policy guide for the right: “Every American wishes we had someone out there quietly taking care of business,” [Surnow] said. “It’s a deep, dark ugly world out there. Maybe this is what Ollie North was trying to do. It would be nice to have a secret government that can get the answers and take care of business — even kill people.“
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Its my guess we already do. Just sayin'.
February 12th, 2007 at 1:50 pmAhhh... the good old days of Stalin! I miss them too.
February 12th, 2007 at 1:51 pmOh come on, even Ollie North is against the current crop of criminals!
Nice to have a secret government until the break down your door in the middle of the night and put you away in a secret prison.
Only short-sighted cowards think this is a good idea.
February 12th, 2007 at 1:53 pmIt would be nice to have a secret government that can get the answers and take care of business — even kill people.
Let me correct that statement:
It would be nice to have a secret government that can get the answers and take care of business — even kill people, while remaining uncorrupted by the nearly limitless power they would wield.
Unfortunately, power tends to corrupt us mere mortals. One need look no further than this administration to see that.
Chimpy's administration will forever be a cautionary tale against those who would trust blindly in their leaders for salvation.
In fact, this is the very principle upon which this country was founded. A government of laws, rather than people, because the Founding Fathers knew from bitter experience that people simply cannot be trusted with that sort of power.
The sort of power that Chimpy & Co. are now claiming as their own.
Are you angry yet? If you're not, you're not paying attention!
February 12th, 2007 at 1:55 pmSurnow, inadvertently reveals something very basic about the conservative mind. Their minds are full of horrible stuff and they have to believe that everyone else is thinking the same thing or else they might arrive at the conclusion that they have sick minds.
February 12th, 2007 at 1:57 pmi think the NSA fits the bill
February 12th, 2007 at 1:58 pmAuthoritarian dictatorships that kidnap, torture, murder and wage pre-emtive war for profit and empire are cool.
February 12th, 2007 at 1:59 pmWhat planet is this Hollywood fool from? The Secret Government has been with us for a while now.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iaGCJmCAJ40
February 12th, 2007 at 2:01 pmYou wouldn't need a covert solution if the Congress and American public followed through on war plans. Maintaining security while a fledgling democracy takes hold is never pleasant (West Germany, Japan, S. Korea), but the benefits decades later are immeasureable.
Could you imagine a world in which Germany, Japan and S. Korea weren't democratic? Pre-WWII, and that was not a pretty time.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:03 pmWhere fantasy meets fiction is where "24" belongs. Not in the real world. Geez, guys, there's a thing called a Constitution, and it's not an old warship!
February 12th, 2007 at 2:04 pmSurnow, inadvertently reveals something very basic about the conservative mind.
Bluedog49, he reveals something else as well. To the conservative mind "good" and "evil" are sides in a great cosmological game, not ways of living. Their methods are essentially indistinguishable.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:05 pmIt's not just conservatives. Come on people, who doesn't want everything to run smoothly, for all the problems to get solved, all the morals to be upheld? If our enemies just suddenly vanished during the night no one would say boo, as long as we the people were left alone and not forced to do anything we weren't morally against, we wouldn't even care if we had elections, as long as everything worked the way we thought it should. No one in their right mind would be against that.
The problem is that no one can be trusted with that kind of power. They always mess up somewhere along the way. Usually in a BIG way, like being suspicious of everyone, turning the country into a police state, guilty until proven innocent.... little things like that tend to bug the public.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pmOh simpleton,
February 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pmCovert actions are the tail which invariably wags the dog, not the other way around.
Funny how well we've managed for a couple hundred years without it.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:10 pmJMH - you've almost got an argument there, except the part where you can't compare Iraq (or Afghanistan) to Germany Japan and S. Korea, before or after WWII.
As your History Prof., I'd have to give you some credit, but I think that would leave you at C-. Not for ideological reasons, but for technical, academic reasons.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:11 pmOh, and Jason Hendler, I thought it was your position that those "hollywood types" should just shut up and make movies. Are you altering your position?
February 12th, 2007 at 2:13 pmYa the nazis loved their secret governments... they had two or three running at once up until all opposition was dead and the Nazis took over.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:17 pmWhat's that? A secret shadow government? I hadn't noticed, I was too distracted by all the bread and circuses.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:19 pmActually, Jason, pre-WWII Germany was democratic until the Nazis set up a shadow government to quietly "take care of business."
February 12th, 2007 at 2:21 pmHere's an idea for the RNC: Surnow/Robertson '08! I think it'd be a really hot ticket for them. Think about the possibilities!! Pat could make out the hit list, and Joel and Kiefer could roam the globe in AF1, grabbing likely suspects and givin'em what-fer...
February 12th, 2007 at 2:23 pmThe right wing continually brings up WWII. there is no paralell between Iraq and WWII, none, zip nadda. For one thing, Mr Hendler, all three countries you mention are pretty homogennous so after WWII there was no infighting. Secondly Japan and Germany were bled dry by the war physically, mentally and financially. Third we had upwards of 1,000,000 or more military personell in each country. Add to that the millions of Soviet Troops, The hundreds of thousands of Brits, Aussies, Indian troops etc... In other words these countries were locked down tight by our military presence which was in sufficient numbers to maintain civil control. None of these conditions exiist in Iraq today or ever.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:27 pmTom,
I am happy to accept your partial credit on my work.
Bluedog,
NO, Fatalie can say whatever she wants. I just think her grammy's are completely undeserved, when Gnarl's Barkely's work was far more ground-breaking than the same album I've heard from the Chicks w/ Dicks twice before.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:34 pmAgain, Jason. You've posted before that "hollywood types" should just shut up about politics and make movies. You don't seem to have that problem with Surnow. Are you flip-flopping on this issue? Do you think Surnow should just shut up?
February 12th, 2007 at 2:38 pmFurther proof that the Reich Wingnuts are evil criminals who want the US government to torture and murder people. And they call themselves Christians? Disgusting.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:40 pmOnly an idiot with a grade-school education would attempt to equate Iraq or Iran with the Axis powers in WW2. Stupid stupid stupid.
February 12th, 2007 at 2:42 pmIf everybody...
...kills one another...
...who's going to clean up the blood?
February 12th, 2007 at 2:51 pmComment by Jason M. Hendler
Come on, I am no fan of the Dixie Chicks (Gnarl’s Barkely), but lets keep it clean. There is no need to call them Chicks w/ Dicks.
So, is it their music or their politics you don't like?
February 12th, 2007 at 2:54 pmSo, is it their music or their politics you don’t like?
Comment by hacker bob #28
...actually it's their d*cks...
...Jason's upset that they've got 'em...
...and he don't (sic)...
February 12th, 2007 at 3:05 pmIt's not music or politics that Jason is scared of; it's women.
Jason, come out of the closet. You'll breathe easier & people may actually like you.
Chicks w/Dicks would be Liz & Mary Cheney...how's that working for you?
February 12th, 2007 at 3:07 pmhahahahahahahaha!
...I kid Jason...
...listen if there's anybody here who knows Jason personally...
...give him a pair of eyes...
...right in the middle of his forehead...
...for me...
February 12th, 2007 at 3:10 pmIt’s not music or politics that Jason is scared of; it’s women.
Comment by Zimzone
That explains the 39 year old virgin thing.
February 12th, 2007 at 3:15 pmbob,
February 12th, 2007 at 3:19 pmare you careful to say/write/blog nothing directly negative about bush or the war in iraq when at work/in uniform?
karlx sez:
Of course he is...if he is indeed in uniform (no insinuation, bob...it's just impossible to verify anything online), then he walks the razor's edge every time he posts here. I, for one, don't envy him.
February 12th, 2007 at 3:23 pmare you careful to say/write/blog nothing directly negative about bush or the war in iraq when at work/in uniform?
Comment by karlX
I try to be careful, but at times I may push it a bit. Thanks for the concern.
Of course he is…if he is indeed in uniform (no insinuation, bob…it’s just impossible to verify anything online), then he walks the razor’s edge every time he posts here. I, for one, don’t envy him.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
I am glad you can see the balancing act I perform. As for varifying my status, I understand speculation. Feel free to look me up on "Facebook" in the TP group. I am not calling you out, just inviting you.
February 12th, 2007 at 3:31 pm#
karlx sez:
bob,
are you careful to say/write/blog nothing directly negative about bush or the war in iraq when at work/in uniform?
Of course he is…if he is indeed in uniform (no insinuation, bob…it’s just impossible to verify anything online), then he walks the razor’s edge every time he posts here. I, for one, don’t envy him.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — February 12, 2007 @ 3:23 pm
yeah, it seems quite bold of him, i'm intrigued, hence my constant focus on him, our Progressive Conservative Bob; but i would like to hear his candid response to the query.
February 12th, 2007 at 3:34 pmwoops, there's the response; cool
February 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pmO, please! the U.S. has ALWAYS had a secret government!
February 12th, 2007 at 3:47 pmI am glad you can see the balancing act I perform. --- hacker bob
I understand it and know you have to watch what you say.
It's really too bad that someone serving to protect our free speech has theirs curtailed by the same government. imho.
February 12th, 2007 at 4:10 pmComment by Wayne
Ironic, ain't it?
February 12th, 2007 at 4:18 pmForget 24. I'm starting to.
Instead, watch "Heroes". It comes on the same time as 24 tonight. And it stars Adrian Pasdar, husband of Natalie Maines, lead singer of the Grammy-award winning Dixie Chicks.
Watch "Heroes" AND HELP KICK JACK BAUER'S ASS.
February 12th, 2007 at 4:31 pmGnarl’s Barkely’s work was far more ground-breaking than the same album I’ve heard from the Chicks w/ Dicks twice before.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Jason inadvertently admits what he's into.
February 12th, 2007 at 4:37 pmGnarl’s Barkely’s work was far more ground-breaking than the same album I’ve heard from the Chicks w/ Dicks twice before.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Jason inadvertently admits what he’s into.
Comment by ForTruth
Yeah he always seems to have those Freudian slips. From an earlier post today he seems to be obsessed with flaccid things as well.
Time to come out of the closet Jason....
February 12th, 2007 at 4:54 pmLess than a week after ThinkProgress justifiably criticized the mainstream news media for devoting so much time and effort to the Anna Nicole Smith story, the site devotes threads to the Dixie Chicks and "24."
Okay.
February 12th, 2007 at 4:55 pmHey everyone! The thead's "OK" with Exley. Whew. I'm sure glad about that. We can move on now.
February 12th, 2007 at 5:07 pmThis discussion of Hendler brings up an obvious question. Why is the neocon movement so gay?
February 12th, 2007 at 5:29 pmThis discussion of Hendler brings up an obvious question. Why is the neocon movement so gay?
Comment by Bluedog49
Because they liken themselves to Roman Gladiators out on a mission. No one else is good enough except themselves. They "love" only each other.
February 12th, 2007 at 5:38 pmIt would be nice to have a secret government that can get the answers and take care of business—even kill people.
Right. Every American dreams of a secret government that is above the law, can mistreat prisoners, and kill people at will without ever having be held accountable to its citizens. Right, sure.
::rolling my eyes::
I believe that dreams has a name, Mr. Surnow: Fascism. Your "every American wishes" dictum is nothing but a projection. And no, it would not be nice.
February 12th, 2007 at 6:17 pmyeah, that would be nice. if only...
February 12th, 2007 at 6:22 pmIf this guy Surnow keeps flapping his idiotic blowhole, I may be forced to stop watching the show. Incidentally, he's one of the fools trying to produce a funny alternative to The Daily Show for FOX. I've read that it's not going so well.
February 12th, 2007 at 6:36 pmWasn't that the KGB?
February 12th, 2007 at 7:00 pmI'm sure we have an ASSASSINATION BUREAU(tm) that "takes care" of political and other enemies like they do in Russia, China, North Korea, Cuba, ANY OTHER COUNTRY THAT HAS POLITICAL AND OTHER PEOPLE THEY REGARD AS ENEMIES OF THE STATE THAT MUST BE LIQUIDATED! It's too bad that these bureaus usually are CONTROLLED BY THE WRONG PEOPLE, like Surnow--in other words, "We have met the enemy, and we are IT!" Surnow and other right-wing, Fascist, Communist, Totalitarian, or Despotic Dictatorial Regimes--GO SHOOT YOURSELVES IN THE MOUTH AND AIM CORRECTLY OR SUFFER LIKE HITLER DID BEFORE HE DIED!!!!
February 12th, 2007 at 8:22 pmPhysician, Heal Thyself! Surnow and like-minded CREEPS, OFF YOURSELVES--OR SHALL WE HAVE THAT PLEASURE?
‘It would be nice to have a secret government.’
Yeah, it would be so cool to live in East Germany back in the 70s. Who wouldn't enjoy that?
February 12th, 2007 at 9:35 pmReading assignment: Conservatives without Conscience, John W. Dean.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:30 pm[...] Keep this in mind when you're watching tonights 2-hour 24 (from Thinkprogress): The New Yorker profiles “24″ creator Joel Surnow, whose show has become a foreign policy guide for the right: “Every American wishes we had someone out there quietly taking care of business,” [Surnow] said. “It’s a deep, dark ugly world out there. Maybe this is what Ollie North was trying to do. It would be nice to have a secret government that can get the answers and take care of business — even kill people.“ [...]
February 13th, 2007 at 8:10 amNo I don't.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:44 amI think "deep, dark, and ugly" better describes Surnow's prurient imagination. Isn't he one of Rush's Dominican sex-junket buddies???
Robertson/Surnow '08 - come on RNC - Run these bad boys!!!!!!
February 13th, 2007 at 12:28 pmYou gotta love how on the one hand they want everybody to be ultra-right-leaning Christian zombies, and on the other hand they get turned on by the thought of killing people for their cause.
How do they get away with this crap? Are the followers on the right just completely brainwashed? I mean REALLY brainwashed, not just a metaphorical term.
And for the record, NO, I do not want there to be a "secret government" with the authority to torture and kill. That's just gross. It makes me sick to my stomach.
"Dark dirty world" -- fascists always have to have "the other" that we are against to make their arguments work. Without that persistent enemy, their arguments make no sense.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:43 pmbrainwashing - it's not just for mad scientists anymore!!
February 13th, 2007 at 1:07 pm