McCain To Deliver Keynote Speech For Creationists
McCain To Deliver Keynote Speech For Creationists
Today is Darwin Day, commemorating the anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth and of the publishing of On the Origin of Species. The National Academy of Sciences, “the nation’s most prestigious scientific organization,” declares evolution “one of the strongest and most useful scientific theories we have.” President Bush’s science adviser John Marburger calls it “the cornerstone of modern biology.”
Yet, on February 23, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will be the keynote speaker for the most prominent creationism advocacy group in the country. The Discovery Institute, a religious right think-tank, is well-known for its strong opposition to evolutionary biology and its advocacy for “intelligent design.” The institute’s main financial backer, savings and loan heir Howard Ahmanson, spent 20 years on the board of the Chalcedon Foundation, “a theocratic outfit that advocates the replacement of American civil law with biblical law.”
McCain has an ambiguous record on whether he supports intelligent design in the science curriculum. In 2005, he said it should be taught:
Daily Star: Should intelligent design be taught in schools?
McCain: I think that there has to be all points of view presented. But they’ve got to be thoroughly presented. So to say that you can only teach one line of thinking I don’t think is - or one belief on how people and the world was created - I think there’s nothing wrong with teaching different schools of thought.
Daily Star: Does it belong in science?
McCain: There’s enough scientists that believe it does. I’m not a scientist. This is something that I think all points of view should be presented.
But last year, he said the intelligent design theory should not be taught in the science classroom:
“I think Americans should be exposed to every point of view,” he said. “I happen to believe in evolution…I respect those who think the world was created in seven days. Should it be taught as a science class? Probably not.“
As McCain continues his lurch to the right, where will he come down on intelligent design in the science classroom? We’ll be watching.
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Flipper McCain’s affiliation with this group is sure to doom his campaign! Besides, in the polls his numbers are waning - next to Guliani and, believe it or not, Al Gore (who hasn’t even announced his candidacy!). Guess McCain’s hoping to get some religion before he passes away - he’s looking like a ghost of his former self these days and experts suspect that he’s pretty sick. I doubt that his health will even tolerate a full campaign.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:20 pmPASTY-FACED, YELLOW-BELLIED WHITE MAN SPEAK WITH TOTALLY F*ED-UP TONGUE.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:22 pmSo, now I’m convinced that McCain was not a product of intelligent design.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:23 pmIntelligent Design is complete hocus pocus bullsh!t.
To quote from Wikipedia:
“In Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District (2005), a United States federal court ruled that a public school district requirement for science classes to teach that intelligent design is an alternative to evolution was a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. United States District Judge John E. Jones III ruled that intelligent design is not science and is essentially religious in nature.”
Read more about this anti-science crap at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Design
February 12th, 2007 at 7:24 pmExcellent timing.
Nature had just called. A thought arrived. Where did DNA come from? DNA, its the key to all living things as we know it. Would life be possible without it? Did DNA arrive from an external location, and intermingle with the Earth’s primordial “ooze”?
Effin’ McCain never thought he would have been entertaining this load of tripe, what a weenie sellout.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:31 pmOnly christians would be willing to completely disregard mounds of evidence for something with none.
If you want to live in fantasy-land, fine. Do it on your own time in your sunday school classes. Keep science in science classrooms and religion in religious classrooms.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:33 pmForTruth - I love it! Effin Flipflop McCain
February 12th, 2007 at 7:34 pmOh, why not? Religion is science, war is peace, selling weapons is trade, humans are numbers and commas, christianity is killing, etc…
February 12th, 2007 at 7:35 pmFundamentalist Christianity is not just good for dealing with the science of evolution, it can also be useful for dealing with the science of climate change.
For example, if you are by some chance sensing a fossil fuel driven spending down of the global natural trust fund, or in other words, a destruction of our natural capital–the provider of fish, food, fresh water, clean air, fiber, stable weather, etc, all the things that make the Earth a perfect home for humans–and it is beginning to cause you to have issues, you may see a shrink about it for a couple hundred bucks an hour. He or she can try and talk you out of “your exaggerated concern,” and if that fails, medicate you.
Another option is to become a fundamentalist Christian. In this case, you need not concern yourself with any responsibility for the future of this evolving dystopia because Armageddon is at hand. The other advantages of this route out of your anxiety and paralysis are that your pastor will explain everything to you in simple terms that you can understand, tell you which Republican to vote for (not that voting for Dems is going to help one damn bit), and then you are good to go. ..
jon
For the rest of this relevant irreverent piece, see:
February 12th, 2007 at 7:36 pmhttp://EcosystemCollapse.com/ellen.html
#6: Only [C]hristians would be willing to completely disregard mounds of evidence for something with none.
I disagree. I think religious and ideological zealots of all stripes can be persuaded to believe all sorts of absurd and things that have no basis in fact. I’m sure there are atheist and agnostic Republicans who still believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction during the lead-up to war in 2003.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:39 pmNow that’s over the top… is he serious? Is he really running for president? I think he sustained some brain damage during his POW days and it’s beginning to take its toll.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:45 pmFor what it’s worth, evolution is not in opposition to Christianity. In fact, a large and growing contingent of Christian congregations have organized “Evolution Sunday” events to celebrate evolution science. More here.
– Nico
February 12th, 2007 at 7:46 pmBefore long McCain will look about as credible as Charleton Heston at an NRA convention, tottering up to the podium with a gun in his hand to screech: “..from my cold dead fingers…”
February 12th, 2007 at 7:47 pmCaption:
OOOH OOOOH AAAH AAAHH
(scratch scratch sniff sniff)
February 12th, 2007 at 7:51 pmThat pasty-faced, flip-flopping madman McCain is not intelligent, but he has designs on the white house. His nefarious, two-faced lack of scruple and ethics puts him squarely in the worst thick of repugnant-repubs(republican) IDIOT-ology(not to be confused with common-sense ideology) and on mealy-mouthed HYPOCRISY, which McCain and Rudy Giuliani share equal blame! Most of the American Public see McCain for what he is–a lying, no-good, sidewinding VARMINT who has sold his soul to the radical right wing of the repugnant-repubs for the sake of his own political ends. A shame that someone who started out good turned BAD, ROTTEN TO THE CORE, and STINKS TO HIGH HELL WITH THE STENCH OF POLITICAL CORRUPTION!!!!!
February 12th, 2007 at 7:55 pmRIPON, Calif. — For nearly a decade, members of Ripon’s First Congregational Church bared their souls to Pastor Randall Radic. But clearly it didn’t work both ways. There were certain things he wasn’t telling them.
That became obvious a year ago, when Radic pleaded guilty to betraying his flock and secretly selling the church and its rectory out from under them. He used the money to buy himself a brand-new black BMW and a laptop
I have to disagree Jon eden. The reason Churches are tax free is because they are not politically oriented nor should they advise their followers who to vote for. Falwell, to me, is interested in using the government to proselytize thru law. America is a free country and people are free to practice the religion of their choice, not what one form or relgion wishes to put upon another form of religion.
Yes, the United States is primarily Chrtistian, but even then there are many groups within Christianity and would end up as a big brouhaha over different interpretations of the Bible.
The Geneva Bible was the one the pilgrims came to America with, and not the King James version. You can see the underlying problem already.
Now as for fundamentalist Christians being more moral than others that is a myth. The promise keepers poll found some 75% of their male members had/have pornographic addictions. And then we have the Bakers, the Haggards, the Falwells and guys like this above.
And yes, I am Religious.
Another option is to become a fundamentalist Christian. In this case, you need not concern yourself with any responsibility for the future of this evolving dystopia because Armageddon is at hand.
I am confused at this, you don’t want Democrats (who are as equally Christian as the Republicans) or ‘liberals’, who are for saving the environment, in charge because they would destroy what is going to be destroyed anyway. Hmmm.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:55 pmall aboard the ‘zero dignity express’!
February 12th, 2007 at 7:58 pmhttp://www.americanprogressaction.org
Linkie no workie Nico.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:58 pm*groan*….I thought we were done with all the “Intelligent Design” hokum.
The longest two weeks of my life was when our church started presenting it in Sunday School as an ‘alternative’ to evolution…and I had to spend my Sunday afternoons deprogramming my wife and her family.
People should be able to sue proponents of Intelligent Design for permanent harm done to their ability to think critically.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:00 pmMcCain is a walking testimony that man did indeed evolve from the ape. Scientists are blessed by evolutionary throwbacks and they couldn’t have found a better example than this dinosaur named John.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:01 pmQ: Why is former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney officially announcing in Michigan on Tuesday he is running for President?
A: Because he is trying to run away – far, far away – from Massachusetts before the GOP primaries.
For the story, see:
February 12th, 2007 at 8:03 pm“Romney Runs – Away.”
For what it’s worth, evolution is not in opposition to Christianity.
– Nico
Comment by Admin — February 12, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
That’s true.
However, a small group inside the Christian movement believe that it is!
And this is a problem.
These people read the book of Genesis as if it’s a factual time-line history of the beginning of the earth rather than taking an interpretive look at it possibly being the beginning of the human soul. This former view is held by mostly less educated and easily duped believers. The majority of Christians can reconcile the book of Genesis with the theory of evolution without fear of burning in hell.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:03 pmWhat is really disturbing about US politics is that even something as basic as science is politicised, and people like McCain can pander to people by questioning a sound scientific theory.
Can you imagine a politician arguing that sound doesn’t exist because acoustics are “just a theory”? What’s worse, getting votes because of it?
IDers seem to think there is such thing as a “liberal science” one can believe in. But then again their vision of the world is one big belief, so I guess it makes sense to them.
My only fear is that they should eventually succeed in pushing the US back to the MiddleAges -only with the biggest nuclear weapons arsenal on the planet. What a scary thought.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:04 pmFor what it’s worth, evolution is not in opposition to Christianity.
Comment by Admin — February 12, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
Agreed.
It’s really only a minority of Bible fundamentalists that are opposed to the teaching of the Theory of Evolution.
Catholics -the largest Christian denomination- do not read the Bible literally, and so have no problems with the idea of a 6.5billion year old Earth or humans evolving through time.
It is the fundamentalists -the same people this White House caters to- that are bent on pushing their interpretation of the scriptures on everyone else.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:08 pmI’m confused: So McCain actually believed in evoloution before he decided against it?
February 12th, 2007 at 8:11 pmComment by Gregor Samsa — February 12, 2007 @ 8:04 pm
And gravity is just a theory too, right?
/sarcasm on
So, why is gravity always pulling us toward hell? Gravity is the work of the devil and an enemy of the Rapture. How can we float to heaven with gravity ph*cking up everything? Where is my God now?
/sarcam off
February 12th, 2007 at 8:13 pmShorter McCain: “I believe that the Christian right political base has to have their asses kissed.”
February 12th, 2007 at 8:17 pmthis is eerie… was just talking to my son about him last night…
February 12th, 2007 at 8:18 pmi believe i’ve talked him out of his appreciation of maccave…
i’ve sent this story to seal the deal - my son is a scientist…
Man, maybe the Bush 2000 smear campaign about McCain being nuts was right….
-
February 12th, 2007 at 8:20 pmIs selling one’s soul to the devil and practiving the black arts also a science or just a misguided lifestyle? Mr. Cheney, would you care to enlighten us with your chosen life’s interest?
February 12th, 2007 at 8:26 pmCNN just had a segment on Atheists in America.
I was surprised they actually covered it. Though not surprised by the bigoted preacher who called us immoral on their guest panel.
The reality is that the more outrageous the drooling Christians are, the more they will push people away from them. They are their own worst enemies. And embracing “Intelligent” Design only weakens their case and credibility.
And to whatever insane troll is about to challenge me - explain the intelligence in male nipples, pseudogenes, the coccyx, the backward eye, the appendix…
February 12th, 2007 at 8:29 pmFor what it’s worth, evolution is not in opposition to Christianity.
But it is.
Traditional Christianity is about Creationism. Creationism by a perfect omnipotent being.
Evolution is about a self-contained system with flaws.
The two really are not compatable. Not without modifying one of the two. And since facts cannot be adjusted to fit a conclusion, then the Christians who embrace Evolution are rejecting aspects of their religion… making them something else.
Kind of ironic… Christianity itself is evolving…
In fact, a large and growing contingent of Christian congregations have organized “Evolution Sunday†events to celebrate evolution science. More here.
Comment by Admin — February 12, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
Empty Pew Syndrome… If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pmthe religious right is proof positive that the design is NOT intelligent.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:37 pm.
You think he’ll even have much of a face left by 2008? Well, that French woman who got hers chewed off by a dog seems to be doing well.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:40 pmMcCain is trying to get he evangelical vote, and the only way he can do that, is by agreeing with them. It is largely a political move, and shows he is willing to change ideas to court a vote. Pretty funny, when you consider, this is the behavior the republicans allway screech the loudest about when democrats do it.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:43 pmExcuse me, but …
Why is the CityClub of Seattle and the Seattle World Affairs Council (are these legit community organizations?) joining with the Discovery Institute?
I thought that Seattle had more sensible people than that. What gives?
February 12th, 2007 at 8:46 pmAnd to whatever insane troll is about to challenge me - explain the intelligence in male nipples, pseudogenes, the coccyx, the backward eye, the appendix…
Comment by unbelievable — February 12, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
unb,
You’re gonna get reply’s like “it’s god’s will” or “to test our faith” and other bullsh!t!!
Here’s a paradox, in their own world, that they cannot answer. I ask them if they believe god answers prayers and they agree. Then I remind them millions of people in every religion on earth pray for world peace every day and have been doing so since the beginning of man. Then I point our that not a single one of those prayers for world peace have been closely addressed much less answered!!
Then all hell breaks loose and the discussion is over. Try it! It’s beats arguing science with them.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:48 pmTo the commenter above who wrote this - Sorry, but you have been given a false impression. I know that there are some who call themselves “Christian”, or “religious” who would give you that impression.
But, religious belief and awe at how the universe works, are not incompatible.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:49 pmPosted by Satyam at 7:16 pm
Do you guys have a new colleague?
Welcome Satyam.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:49 pmthe religious right is proof positive that the design is NOT intelligent.
.
Comment by pluege — February 12, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
Now that, that right thar is funny!!!
February 12th, 2007 at 8:50 pmYou’re gonna get reply’s like “it’s god’s will†or “to test our faith†and other bullsh!t!!
I’m sure you’re right - the standard cop-out replies… They are incapble of anything else. It’s what faith is…
I don’t know how a god can be both omniscient and insecure at the same time… It’s an oxymoron
Here’s a paradox, in their own world, that they cannot answer. I ask them if they believe god answers prayers and they agree. Then I remind them millions of people in every religion on earth pray for world peace every day and have been doing so since the beginning of man. Then I point our that not a single one of those prayers for world peace have been closely addressed much less answered!!
There you go thinking again… ;D
You’re right again. Prayer is pointless. It does nothing. In fact, if people took all the time that they pray for peace and instead act peacefully - this world would be a peaceful place. Actions are the key…
Then all hell breaks loose and the discussion is over. Try it! It’s beats arguing science with them.
Comment by dixie blood — February 12, 2007 @ 8:48 pm
Thanks, I will.
Though the anatomy question is a pretty good conversation deterent as well : )
February 12th, 2007 at 8:59 pmSo, then does John McCain think that the Flying Spagetti Monster should get equal time? There is just as much scientific fact in the belief of the FSM as there is in creationism.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — February 12, 2007 @ 8:22 pm
Looks like Bobby Henderson needs to write some new letters… This time to conservative politicians. :)
February 12th, 2007 at 9:00 pmDo you guys have a new colleague?
Welcome Satyam.
Comment by unbelievable
She introduced herself on facebook. Very nice.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:00 pmHail, Satan.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:06 pmThe Republican Party requests your presense at one of thier Intelligent Design fund-raising lectures. Host, key-note speaker will be your good friend and ours, John McCain.
BYOFF (Bring your own flip-flops.)
Sincerely,
Your devoted followers, the Republican Party neo-cons.
Though the anatomy question is a pretty good conversation deterent as well : )
Comment by unbelievable — February 12, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
That’s very true. It shuts them up without the fight my rhetoric provokes. They usually slink away when faced with your anatomy questions.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:07 pmTo the commenter above who wrote this - Sorry, but you have been given a false impression.
No, I haven’t. I was raised Christian. I know what the religion belives. My impression is accurate.
I realize you cannot understand how someone could understand your religion and still reject it, but many of us do. In fact, those who understand it the best usually do.
I know that there are some who call themselves “Christianâ€, or “religious†who would give you that impression.
It’s not about what a handful of people do. It is what the religion promotes itself as. Creationism.
But, religious belief and awe at how the universe works, are not incompatible.
Comment by Cautious Man — February 12, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
Awe? No.
Acceptance of it? Yes.
Evolution and Christianity are not compatable. Evolution and god-belief are compatable. The difference is written in the Bible. You can rationalize it - but that isn’t faith, the fundamental requirement of being a Christian.
Besides, those who accept Evolution, the finite, and the universe as it is don’t need a Saviour… Making it incompatable with Christianity.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:08 pmShe introduced herself on facebook. Very nice.
Comment by Zooey — February 12, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
I haven’t been to facebook.
Who is the new “Judd”? Just so the insane trolls know who to curse… :D
February 12th, 2007 at 9:11 pmBut, religious belief and awe at how the universe works, are not incompatible.
Comment by Cautious Man
Well said.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:12 pmThey usually slink away when faced with your anatomy questions.
Comment by dixie blood — February 12, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
IRI tried to answer the male nipple part once…
Ready?
He said that god, knowing he would make eve out of adam’s rib, put them there.
When I inquired about where his tiny uterus and vagina was located, I think he made some derogatory comment about my anatomy instead. You know by “intelligent” design… LOL
February 12th, 2007 at 9:15 pmMcCain: There’s enough scientists that believe it does. I’m not a scientist.
This just in from Captain Obvious:
Yup, John, you said it.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:16 pmWho is the new “Judd� Just so the insane trolls know who to curse… :D
Comment by unbelievable
Faiz is the Editor, but no one could replace Judd. Heh.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:19 pmMaking it incompatable with Christianity.
Comment by unbelievable — February 12, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
This is true due to the concept of “original sin.” Under Chrisitanity you are born with a “debt due” which is really what “original sin” is in banking terms. Now you are a slave! You must work the rest of your days paying a debt. And some believe that the debt must be paid with the blood of others (non-believers).
The opposite view is that you are born with the power of those who came before, “debt free” and now are encoraged and challenged to build for the next generation.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:24 pmFaiz is the Editor, but no one could replace Judd. Heh.
Comment by Zooey — February 12, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Did they rock, paper, scissors for it?
(Just kidding Faiz… Congrats on your promotionto Editor! Hopefully Rachel won’t make you regret it : )
February 12th, 2007 at 9:24 pmI think if you believe that the bible is a historically accurate book, then no evolution, is not compatible. I tend to view the bible as something that has been passed down through oral tradition for a few thousand years, before being written down, at least the old testament. The new testament has been translated, pared down, and decision on what to include, and destroy. I have to take the whole thing with a very large grain of salt.
So no I don’t see a problem with belief in God, and science, but I also don’t view the bible as a historically accurate text.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:27 pmfrom his bush hugs to his religious right pandering, I can’t think of a more pathetic suck-up than chief republican loon mccain.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:33 pm.
This is true due to the concept of “original sin.â€
I wish the evolved cafeteria Christians would stand up to the traditional Christians. I get tired of we non-religious folks being labeled as contentious just because are the only ones who do.
I also get weary from explaining their religion to them… (though, frankly, when I was a Christian, I didn’t know exactly what I believed in either)…
Under Chrisitanity you are born with a “debt due†which is really what “original sin†is in banking terms. Now you are a slave! You must work the rest of your days paying a debt. And some believe that the debt must be paid with the blood of others (non-believers).
Just because a couple of naked people ate an apple…
The opposite view is that you are born with the power of those who came before, “debt free†and now are encoraged and challenged to build for the next generation.
Comment by dixie blood — February 12, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
Excellent points. By this mindset, a Saviour becomes unnecessary, and Jesus is demoted to a philosopher.
I think that if the new Christians dropped the Old Testament, and stopped worshipping Jesus - as he wanted - but instead lived by his words of peace, love and harmony, as a Philosophy rather than a religion - these conversations wouldn’t exist… And religion wouldn’t be such a problematic issue…
February 12th, 2007 at 9:35 pmUnbelievable - the book of Genesis, which contains the creation story, is in the Old Testament and predates Christianity. You said you were raised in the Christian church, and it sounds as if it was a fundamentalist (or Pentacostal?) church. Or even Southern Baptist (which I was raised in). There’s no doubt that Fundamentalism is incompatible with evolution (and geology, etc.). But the great majority of Christians are NOT fundamentalists, and do not have a problem with scientific fact and/or theory. It’s kinda like this:
“When I was a child, I spake as a child,
I understood as a child, I thought as a child:
but when I became a man, I put away
childish things. For now we see through a
glass, darkly; but then face to face: now
I know in part; but then shall I know even
as also I am known.”
First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (Bible, 1 Corinthians 13, verse 11)
February 12th, 2007 at 9:41 pmMy only hope left for America is this. If gays and lesbians get the right to have their own children, my only hope is that they should draw a God fearing CONSERVATIVE judge to hear their case. Conservatives are trying to BUILD UP this country while you Democrats are intent on tearing it apart from within.
This is a treasonous act.
To the rest of you I bid blah blah blah.
Fear not, a conservative President is on the way in 2008.
America will stand strong and WILL NOT be broken.
That is all worms, that is all.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:42 pmHere I am and here I go:
Let me suspend my Christianity for a moment while I call you all atheist bastards..
Christianity turned back on..
February 12th, 2007 at 9:43 pmI think if you believe that the bible is a historically accurate book, then no evolution, is not compatible.
It’s more than that. It’s about - as dixie blood pointed out - original sin. About a savior. About Creationism.
You cannot reject those principals and still be Christian in the traditional sense. If people want to reject those aspects of the religion, they are and should call themselves something else.
I have to take the whole thing with a very large grain of salt.
But according to the Christian religion, that is not your call. The faith is to accept it - without question.
When I was Catholic, I was pro-choice. I had friends that told me that I was not Catholic. At first, it hurt my feelings… but as I had time to think about it, I realized that they were right. In order to claim an ideology of faith that someone else founded, you cannot pick and choose. You have a Portestant Reformation and call yourselves Protestants, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, and so on…
So no I don’t see a problem with belief in God, and science, but I also don’t view the bible as a historically accurate text.
Comment by Krazny — February 12, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
It’s not scientifically accurate either :)
February 12th, 2007 at 9:44 pmI wish the evolved cafeteria Christians would stand up to the traditional Christians.
Comment by unbelievable — February 12, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
Me too!
Also, isn’t this the same thing “traditional Christians” are asking of “evolved cafeteria” (read moderate) Muslims?
February 12th, 2007 at 9:48 pmAs someone who has been an active participant against the ID movement, I just want to take a bit of issue with the OP.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:48 pmThe Discovery Institute has many parts, most of which are rightwing-economics oriented - George Gilder and that crowd. It’s their Center for (formerly “…the Renewal of…”) Science and Culture which does the ID schtick. The Intartubes have abandoned the distinction between the part and the whole.
It sounds to me from that press release that’s it’s a desire to pay homage to the libertarian economic crowd that’s behind McCain’s staff’s scheduling of this.
He’s still the Doubletalk Express, but I don’t think this implies McCain’s endorsement of ID. I doubt he knows much about it.
the book of Genesis, which contains the creation story, is in the Old Testament and predates Christianity.
This is frustrating, because we already had this discussion.
If you don’tlike Genesis, then take it out of your Bible. I didn’t put it there.
You said you were raised in the Christian church, and it sounds as if it was a fundamentalist (or Pentacostal?) church. Or even Southern Baptist (which I was raised in).
Nope. I was raised Catholic - though my mother took us to other churches and I habitually went to other churches trying to answer my questions to the religion.
There’s no doubt that Fundamentalism is incompatible with evolution (and geology, etc.). But the great majority of Christians are NOT fundamentalists, and do not have a problem with scientific fact and/or theory.
The take back your religion and redefine it.
Also long as you let the Evangelicals speak for you and define what you are, you are that.
Unbelievable - the book of Genesis, which contains the creation story, is in the Old Testament and predates Christianity. You said you were raised in the Christian church, and it sounds as if it was a fundamentalist (or Pentacostal?) church. Or even Southern Baptist (which I was raised in). There’s no doubt that Fundamentalism is incompatible with evolution (and geology, etc.). But the great majority of Christians are NOT fundamentalists, and do not have a problem with scientific fact and/or theory.
First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (Bible, 1 Corinthians 13, verse 11)
Comment by inpeachcheneythenbush — February 12, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
I feel that describes why I became an Atheist… Took off the blinders and stopped letting fear control me… No need for a Saviour, a god, or an afterlife…
Alright, as much as I enjoy this subject (sarcasm), I need to go…
Good night all!
February 12th, 2007 at 9:51 pmI wish the evolved cafeteria Christians would stand up to the traditional Christians. I get tired of we non-religious folks being labeled as contentious just because are the only ones who do.
There are many, including the World Council of Churches. And Sojourners. I’ve provided two links. There are many Christians who fight against injustice, and are vocal in warning about the Christian Right.
http://www.sojo.net/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2728793.stm
February 12th, 2007 at 9:51 pmUb,
I was raised, and still am Lutheran. I don’t recall them ever introducing the concept of original sin. From what I recall, and know, it has always more been about accepting Christ as your savior. So I guess what I am getting at, is as a lutheran, I don’t see the original sin argument working, at least not for me. I think that it does encourage you to live a good life. The very idea of a Christian, literal translation is a follower of Christ. I think alot of the guilt, and angst placed on catholics, has been a means to control catholics, and not so much a belief in Christ, or in Christ’s teachings.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:53 pmSo Doubletalk is the standard. I get it. He knows he’s a flip-floppin’ flam-o-rama. McCain knows he’s just speaking to “crowds”. Only some little Macaca would follow him around and check everything.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:54 pm“… I think all points of view should be presented.”
Yeah, like the Earth is flat.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:59 pmThe Sun and all the planets revolve around the Earth.
Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real.
There really is a tooth fairy.
Someone who’s been dead for three days can suddenly walk again.
All of you Athe-Cysts need to stop using the Bible as a mere reference book to make an argument for your shortsighted cause.
This book known as the Bible carries a special brand of judgement for people who use it, The Bible, to REFUTE its contents.
You hacks do not even know where to begin to dissect the Bible without it turning right smack back around and biting you in the ass.
It is comical as all get out actually. It is God himself turning your venomous words, that you cite from the Bible to refute the Bible itself, right back around and using them AGAINST YOU.
Do you people project much?
You people call Jason a fact mangler. Jason speaks truth. As does Michael and Vince P.
Lord forgive the posters at Think Progress. They know not what they do.
And remember: ” Inside every Muslim, there is an American, screaming and clawing to get out “
February 12th, 2007 at 10:03 pm3rd try commenting:
This doesn’t have to be a black & white issue. I know plenty of christians who think for themselves, believe in evolution, and think fundies are nuts.
We don’t have to agree with the reasons someone feels a certain way, but it’s not hard to respect their choice.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:05 pmOK, McCain is toast. He’s totally incredible. Even a home-schooled, Bible-thumping, science-denying, creationist should know better than to believe this man who has changes his mind as often as he changes underwear.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:08 pm#70 Well that’s my childhood crush destroyed for ever. Who ever thought that beautiful Penny was a crazed fundy….
February 12th, 2007 at 10:09 pmMarie,
Please don’t! Don’t make me think about McCain’s saggy grey underpants.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:11 pmWe don’t have to agree with the reasons someone feels a certain way, but it’s not hard to respect their choice.
Comment by Zooey — February 12, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
I do not disrepect their religious views. It’s the politics that they stir in with the mix the ph*cks up the whole world!!
And that goes for every religion on earth!!!
February 12th, 2007 at 10:11 pmThere’s not as many athiests here as you think Rachel.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:13 pmThe Bible was written over centuries, in different languages, frequently edited over time, with certain entire books omitted; written by men for illiterate and superstitious people. Anyone who believes it is an accurate and historical account of events over thousands of years is simply unreachable by reason. McCain would have to join those extremists in order to embrace them and therefore he would lose all claim to reasonable thought.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:14 pmI think alot of the guilt, and angst placed on catholics, has been a means to control catholics, and not so much a belief in Christ, or in Christ’s teachings.
Comment by Krazny — February 12, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
Exactly. When you look at the history of the (Holy Roman) Catholic Church, and their political power, we see the first and most fatal corruption of Christianity. Emperor Constantine (later known as Saint Constantine), declared the Edict of Milan in 313 A.D.. This act prepared the legal recognition of Christianity becoming the religion of the Roman Empire. The next step was the The First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. which attempted to reach a concensus view of the nature of Christ, etc. and wound up throwing out a great deal of scriptures (such as the Gnostic books). Not only was much wisdom lost, but by convoking and presiding over the council, Constantine signaled a measure of imperial control over the church.
Hmmm..sound familiar?
February 12th, 2007 at 10:17 pm#78, you and krazny
February 12th, 2007 at 10:29 pmare correct IMHO.
The Bible has always been a political tool.
Constantines motivation was more to create a singular religion to keep the Roman empire together. He clearly saw a fragmented Christian religion would destroy the empire. He did succeed to a certian extent, but I believe he was responsible for the move of the capitol of Rome from Rome to Byzantium. This eventually led to the formation of the Greek Orthodox church, when the Roman pope decided he did not want to go to Byzantium/Constantinople, and did not want to surrender his power as pope.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:30 pmdid not want to surrender his power as pope.
Comment by Krazny — February 12, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
Yes…and this is the corrupting of Christianity…the desire for worldly power. Guess they forgot that story about Jesus being shown all of the kingdoms of the world by Satan (during his 40 days in the wilderness), and Jesus told Satan to go take a hike.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:35 pmKrazny is right on: after the reign of Constantine, Christianity ceased to the religion of Jesus. The Christians took their places in the stands of the Colusseum and started putting other heretics in the ring to go three falls or a submission with the lions.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:39 pmWe don’t have to agree with the reasons someone feels a certain way, but it’s not hard to respect their choice.
Comment by Zooey — February 12, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
well said…
it shouldn’t be hard to respect others choices, but it sure seems to be…
and all this time un’s been saying she was raised “christian”, turns out it was “catholic”… sheds whole nuther new light on that one…
February 12th, 2007 at 10:49 pmwhile it’s true that catholics are in fact christian, it’s uncommon for a catholic to claim being a christian, and the christians don’t seem to want to claim the catholics… heh…
…
By speaking on behalf of the Discovery Institute, we know where stands on ID and evolution. Snake.
February 12th, 2007 at 11:07 pmI love how dixie and unbeliever set up straw men to knock down then high-five each other when they do. Bravo! Good show! You two operate very much the extremists among right-wing Christianists.
February 12th, 2007 at 11:21 pmi had a conversation with my son, the scientist, a chemist, while he was home at christmas time… i asked him if he believes in God… he said no…
and i wasn’t surprised… even though he’d been going to lutheran church with his dad for years, until he started college…
( i am not a church goer… and i left that up to my kid’s decision when they got older… they’ve handled it well, on their own… )
but he also expressed his annoyance at those who would judge and demean others because of their chosen beliefs and religious preferences or lack thereof… he has many friends of many persuasions, as do my daughter and i… any religious belief is personal and private and there is no conflict with science, unless that is one’s preference…
February 12th, 2007 at 11:25 pm.
so will churches open up their Sunday Schools and allow scientists in to speak? after all, they favor all views being presented, don’t they?
February 12th, 2007 at 11:28 pmany religious belief is personal and private and there is no conflict with science, unless that is one’s preference…
Comment by katy
In my experience in a thermofluids lab, all scientists and engineers dont say a word about god. Its not an issue whether one believes in it or no. I agree with you, it´s a personal and private opinion the idea of some entity or substance creating the universe…but my description of god is exactly like the one for nature…
February 12th, 2007 at 11:59 pm[…] Seriously, the Straight Talk Express goes to the central repository for intelligent design. […]
February 13th, 2007 at 12:00 amMcCain is the missing link to the cavemen > lol.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:04 amjuan, you and my son would have some interesting conversations!
February 13th, 2007 at 12:10 ami can tell :-)
Traditional Christianity is about Creationism. Creationism by a perfect omnipotent being.
Comment by unbelievable — February 12, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
I realise you will probably not read this message tonight but here I go nonetheless.
I am not sure what you mean by “traditional” Christianity, although I get the impression that you equate it with Bible literalism.
As I mentioned before, the Catholic Church does not abide by the literal reading of the Bible; they learnt a lesson after the Galileo trial fiasco, and know better than to hold the Bible as the literal, inerrant word of God -sure, it only took 350 years for Galileo to be finally rehabilitated, but fact remains the Catholic Church reversed its original judgement.
Regarding the Theory of Evolution, the Catholic Church’s official position is that the teaching of science (including Evolution) and Catholicism are wholly compatible. They make the distinction between sound science and sound theology: Their stance is that a scientific theory should be accepted or rejected on scientific grounds, not theological or philosophical ones.
Other denominations have taken the same approach, and view the Bible as a collection of metaphors and allegories that need to be interpreted -never taken literally. They are trying to separate science from theology, and the physical from the metaphysical.
The final goal of all this theological hand-wringing is to find a way to accept scientific facts while remaining true to their faith, without having to reject any aspect of it. In a way, their beliefs are -yes- evolving. But then that is not new, Christian interpretations of the scriptures are always changing.
It is only the Christian fundamentalists (those fools of biblical proportions, pun intended) who cannot fathom that god could have created life with capacity to evolve.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:12 am[…] Seriously, the Straight Talk Express goes to the central repository for intelligent design. […]
February 13th, 2007 at 12:53 amGregor,
You are correct. Catholicism and acceptance of the theory of evolutiom are not mutually exclusive. As you correctly pointed out, the Church does not disregard evolution as inconsistent with the teachings pf the Church.
And, Katy, while, obviously, I know nothing of your religious upbringing, I would like to point out to you that Catholics most certainly are and consider themselves “Christians.”
Not all Christians are Catholics, but all Catholics are Christians.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:02 amThe debate over whether a Christian can believe in evolution is a waste of time. There are endless definitions of what it means to be a Christian (as with any other religion). Clearly, some people who consider themselves Christian have a selection of religious beliefs that let them reconcile those beliefs with scientific reality. Others do not and cannot. How futile to argue about which are the more “real” Christians.
The discussion should be simpler than that. Those who reject solid science such as evolution on the basis of religious precept are deluded, regardless of whether they consider themselves Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Druid, or whatever.
Further, there are those who confuse a particular religion flavor, such as Christianity, with the more ambiguous “belief in God” (see post #55). Clearly one can believe in God in some sense while having no conflict with scientific reality.
This is similar discussions I’ve had with certain rabid Christians: “Are you a Christian?” “No.” “How can you not believe in God? Why do you hate God?”
Or, those who ask if I’m an atheist. Depends on definitions. I’m certainly atheistic with respect to any particular human-generated religion. Having that position requires little more beyond reading, with an open mind, the first few chapters of any given holy book. This is an exercise apparently skipped by a great many “true believers”, but that’s their problem.
Regarding the more ambiguous God question, I’d have to say I’m agnostic. The question cannot be answered without first having an understanding of the definition of God. When I ask religious people to give me such a definition, I usually get a blank, uncomprehending stare.
Rachel, see Einstein, Spinoza, et al, for further enlightenment on this subject.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:07 amFor what it’s worth—I believe (there’s that word again) that in the very first sentence of Origin of the Species, Darwin says “this is how God did it” (or words to that effect). And our previous pope (not the ex-Nazi) said evolution and Catholicism were compatible.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:55 amIf every different version of the creation gets a mention in our public schools’ science class, exactly how many different versions of creation are there—ten thousand, fifteen thousand, twenty thousand? Our children are going to get awfully confused. I got confused when I saw a movie with people battling a dinosaur—because my encyclopedia told me they died off many millions of years ago. Now we got a museum in Kentucky that says dinosaurs were created with and lived with humans!!!
What if your school board gets taken over by the Hare Krishna-like cult that nearly succeeded in Oregon years ago. They tried to rig the elections by poisioning the town’s salad bars (don’t tell Karl Rove). Anyway, then your kids would be taught that cult’s version of creation.
Well, you can believe that if you like, but you’d be wrong.
http://www.literature.org/ authors/ darwin-charles/ the-origin-of-species/
February 13th, 2007 at 2:22 amCNN:Armitage-Woodward tape
February 13th, 2007 at 2:39 amFerruge,
February 13th, 2007 at 3:16 amI totally do not remember where I read what I said above, but my sources are normally secular and quite good. I was able to get the quote below from the next to last paragragh of Origin of the Species (The Conclusion). Do you think it shows what I said? He is saying “the Creator”.
—————————
“Authors of the highest eminence seem to be fully satisfied with the view that each species has been independently created. To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determining the birth and death of the individual. When I view all beings not as special creations, but as the lineal descendants of some few beings which lived long before the first bed of the Silurian system was deposited, they seem to me to become ennobled.”
sorry it took me nearly an hour. It’s not an easy book.
February 13th, 2007 at 3:22 am>>sigh
February 13th, 2007 at 5:44 amMcCain the stain on American politics—Who as gone futher over the edge–Chaney,,,Bush,,,Rice,,,Lieberman,,,Rumsfeld,,,”McCain,,,Bolton,Brownback,,,Feith,,,Wolfawitz,,,,,Rove,,,Snow,,,O’Reilly…Hannity,,,Coulter,,,Pat Robertson,,,Dobson,,,Falwell,,,Cunningham,,,Abramoff,,,Frist,,,Delay,,,Hastert,,,Foley,,,Laura Ingram,,,Drudge,,,Russert,,,Woodward,,,Judith Miller,,,Novak,,,General Pace,,,Sen. Roberts,,,Trump,,,Carbone,,the next generation has their work cut out for them with the likes of the above mentioned group to contend with…………………………………………………………………………..Charles Belenchia
February 13th, 2007 at 5:48 amThere are prostitutes and there are pretzels. McCain’s twists and turns qualifies him for pretzitute.
And, correction: The Discovery Institute may me a tank, but it does not think.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:21 am[…] Tuesday, February 13th, 2007 in Uncategorized McCain To Deliver Keynote Speech For Creationists […]
February 13th, 2007 at 9:37 am[…] Think Progress » McCain To Deliver Keynote Speech For Creationists […]
February 13th, 2007 at 9:42 amthis should’ve been posted last night… a good, short must read:
Happy Birthday Mr. Darwin
[…]
Despite the mountains of evidence for common descent, to this day many people reject Darwin’s ideas, usually on religious grounds. Entire ideological industries, mostly fueled by the ultra conservative wing of the Republican Party, feeds on that manufactured conflict. And the crux of that denial hinges on the glaring paradox that the intricate universe science reveals somehow challenges the existence of the Creator who crafted it.
Even as a skeptic, I cannot imagine greater testimony to the brilliance of a Creator than a myriad of dazzling, complex processes unfolding over vast oceans of space and time in exquisite order, spanning the entire cosmos.
[…]
http://www.dailykos.com/ storyonly/ 2007/ 2/ 12/ 5416/ 25274
the last paragraph sums up my own feelings about it all…
February 13th, 2007 at 9:50 am.
If you liked “W” in the Whitehouse, I am sure that you will love “McW”…
February 13th, 2007 at 9:57 amI have to disagree with everyone who says that evolution is compatible with religion.
If a person doesn’t believe the whole bible, and instead picks and chooses which parts they want to belief then the whole jesus story can be an allegory as well. It is intellectually lazy to believe in a Christian (muslim, jewish) god and also to disregard the obvious errors in texts that they are based upon.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:02 amNothing wrong with teaching different schools of thought, is just what to expect from someone that is sucking up to get votes.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:05 amIn science, there is only one thought for us to learn and it is backed by physical proof and years of study by men who’s brains most people will never have.
Science and knowledge is our only hope for a peaceful world.
McCain’s “Forked-Tongue Express” continues to roll along.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:22 amWhile the depths of Bush’s depravity are an aberration, John McCain truly represents the worst stereotype of the American politician. I don’t agree with Dobson very often, but I do this time: Under no circumstances will I vote for McCain.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:03 am#108 Bob
certainly someone can be a person of “faith”, and believe in the value of science and scientific theory as well
February 13th, 2007 at 11:05 amAs secular humanist and evolutionist I can say only one thing, you people are idiots. McCain is not to be the keynote speaker at the Discovery Institute on February the 23rd but rather the speaker at the World Affairs Council luncheon. There are a number of organizations affiliated with the luncheon (whose topic is International Affairs not Creationism) including the University of Washington Jackson School of International Studies and yes, the Discovery Institute, an organization I loath. All this information can be discovered with no more than three clicks of the mouse. Have any of you taken the time to research the facts? Do you always believe whatever you read? How ironic that a group of individuals who purport to be supporters of science lack the most fundamental prerequisite of the scientific mind, skepticism.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:15 amAll of you Athe-Cysts need to stop using the Bible as a mere reference book to make an argument for your shortsighted cause.
This book known as the Bible carries a special brand of judgement for people who use it, The Bible, to REFUTE its contents.
You hacks do not even know where to begin to dissect the Bible without it turning right smack back around and biting you in the ass.
It is comical as all get out actually. It is God himself turning your venomous words, that you cite from the Bible to refute the Bible itself, right back around and using them AGAINST YOU.
Do you people project much?
Proof positive that not all drug companies are evil, greedy profit-whores, but rather, there is a serious need for some of their strongest anti-psychotics and other mental health drugs.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:15 amMcCain is losing it. He is aligning himself with the right which is wrong. Faith is Faith and not science and their for should not be taught. Even the Catholic Church believes that evolution is not contradictory to Christianity.
The Republicans will find out come the Presidential election that the electorate is tired of this Religious right and their wanting to teach it to our children.
Why do these Christians hang on to the old testament ?
February 13th, 2007 at 11:27 amHm. Had my message deleted for calling McCain a political slut.
Well, he is. He changes direction more than Barry Sanders.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:48 amJust as an aside, it would be great if presidential candidates would use correct grammar once in a while. Its embarassing enough to have an illiterate president, currently. The rest of the world is laughing at us. Lets not elect another dope.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:48 am#112
certainly someone can be a person of “faithâ€, and believe in the value of science and scientific theory as well
Comment by karlX
What do you mean by “faith”?
Any religion with a written history has to be taken literally, or it can’t be trusted at all when it discusses “miracles” and events. If a reference book says the whole world was flooded, then either it was or the book is wrong. Picking and choosing which parts of a holy reference one wants to believe based on real data is being dishonest and wishy-washy. One might as well believe in Harry Potter.
With a bible, torah, or koran how does one know what they have “faith” about?
February 13th, 2007 at 12:20 pmHe’s just an effing whore like 99% of the rest of the politicians in D.C., for sale to the highest bidder. Why is anyone surprised? Money talks, the voters can take a walk; we get what we deserve. More than 50% of the populace do not believe in evolution, so he’s aligning himself with the majority, I guess: the same people who teach their kids that dinosaurs pulled wagons for humans 6,000 years ago–The Flintstones as fact, for chrissake!
February 13th, 2007 at 12:21 pmI have given up arguing about evolution with Christian Fundamentalists- they are more likely to agree that dinosaur fossils are evidence of the historic basis of the Alien movies, than budge on the idea that the world is possibly more that 6, 000 years old. Their obsession with the Book of Revelations, written by John of Patmos a couple of hundred years after Christ, rather than with the Gospels is a pretty good indication to me of the sincerety of their beliefs in Jesus Christ.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:29 pm[…] It seems that Senator John McCain “will be the keynote speakere for the most prominent creationism advocacy group” in the United States. Satyam, writing for Think Progress, points out: The Discovery Institute, a religious right think-tank, is well-known for its strong opposition to evolutionary biology and its advocacy for “intelligent design.†The institute’s main financial backer, savings and loan heir Howard Ahmanson, spent 20 years on the board of the Chalcedon Foundation, “a theocratic outfit that advocates the replacement of American civil law with biblical law.†[…]
February 13th, 2007 at 12:33 pmpoor ol’johnny mcmaverick…..been reduced to a political crack-ho - just show him the money and point him at the tool that needs serviced….he’s degraded himself further in the service of the Republican’ts than the VC ever could.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:34 pmIf a reference book says the whole world was flooded, then either it was or the book is wrong.
Comment by Bob — February 13, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
That is only true if you want to adhere to a literal interpretation of the Bible.
Most denominations do not read Noah’s story that way, but rather as an allegory of how the total submisson and obedience to god can save you.
Picking and choosing which parts of a holy reference one wants to believe based on real data is being dishonest and wishy-washy.
Again, most denominations are stepping away from the idea that the Bible is literally true. Their view now is that, since the Bible is not a scientific reference book, it’s bound to have factual errors. Although they insist it is theologically sound, in that is meant to convey a message of salvation through faith in Abraham’s god.
The ones who pick and choose are the literalists. For the majority of Christians (and most of those I’ve discussed science with), the idea that man evolved from another life form is no threat to their belief in a creator.
February 13th, 2007 at 12:48 pm[…] 13, 2007 at 6:24 pm · Filed under Uncategorized Sen. McCain To Deliver Keynote Speech For Creationists (Discovery Institute On February 23, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will be the keynote speaker for the most prominent […]
February 13th, 2007 at 1:19 pm[…] Think Progress shows how McCain has flip flopped on evolution: In 2005, he said it should be taught: Daily Star: […]
February 13th, 2007 at 1:28 pmWhat Todd said is right. This is from the Discovery Institute’s website. Not a word about creationism or intelligent design.
February 23, 2007
U.S. Senator John McCain in Seattle, WA
His Vision for the United States’ Role in the World
Discovery Institute is pleased to co-present with CityClub of Seattle and the Seattle World Affairs Council a luncheon featuring U.S. Senator John McCain.
What is the role of the U.S. in the global community? How should the U.S. position itself over the next decade? What are the challenges, and how should they be addressed? What are the future global impacts on Washington State? United States Senator John McCain will address these topics of global relevance and their relation to the Puget Sound region at the Westin Hotel in Seattle on Friday, February 23 from 12:00 to 1:30 p.m.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:46 pmCatholics believe in the virgin birth, that Mary was holy and that the Pope is incapable of making a mistake-explain to me how that fits with a belief in science. (P.S. the birth-control pill was invented by a catholic.)
February 13th, 2007 at 1:50 pmI wonder what McCain sees when he looks at himself in the mirror. One of life’s mysteries.
In any case, Cheney will resign due to “poor” health, and McCain will be selected to fil his VP slot. Thus, he is assured a place in the run for the presidency.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:11 pm#9: Another option is to become a fundamentalist Christian. In this case, you need not concern yourself with any responsibility for the future of this evolving dystopia because Armageddon is at hand. The Bible is the final authority for Christian conduct (especially if you are a fundamentalist Christian). Let’s see what the author and the finisher of the faith, Jesus Christ Himself, has to say on this sort of thing:
“And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.” (Luke 19:13, King James Version)
Occupy, i.e. stay busy, stay involved, until I come back to earth; in other words, don’t say, “Well, since Jesus is coming back, I don’t need to take care of the earth, I don’t need to eat or drink, I just need to stay in some hermitage and not give a hoot about what is happening to the rest of humanity, of which I am a part…after all, He’s coming back to take me to heaven.”
More proof:
“And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:28, KJV)
Be fruitful, multiply, and REPLENISH the earth, not destroy it, or let it come to ruin. Some people would interpret the next part of that verse, the part that says “Have dominion over…every living thing” to justify riding roughshod over nature. That would be wrong. God has given man stewardship over the earth, and one give you stewardship over something, you will eventually have to account for your stewardship. By this logic, therefore, a true Christian would recognize that, instead of despoiling the earth, he should take care of it until Jesus returns.
Of course, logic and fundamentalistic thinking, especially when it comes to the words of the Bible, too often nowadays seem to be at cross-purposes. Oh well.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:16 pm“I’d guess that if we were to see the hand of the designer anywhere, it would be in the fundamental principles, the final laws of nature, the book of rules that govern all natural phenomena. We don’t know the final laws yet, but as far as we have been able to see, they are utterly impersonal and quite without any special role for life. There is no life force. As Richard Feynman has said, when you look at the universe and understand its laws, ‘the theory that it is all arranged as a stage for God to watch man’s struggle for good and evil seems inadequate.’ ”
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. ”
February 13th, 2007 at 2:38 pm-Steven Weinberg
McCain is a “do ANYTHING to win & say ANYTHING to win” dangerous candidate.
A total disappointment as a person.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:38 pmOne of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:43 pmSo sad. I once respected John McCain. Now he is gradually turning himself into a yes-man politician for Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and the rest of their kind.
How amazing is it that in this 21st Century this remains a topic of discussion. But then I suppose it took thousands of years for people to finally realize the world wasn’t flat either, so I might be expecting too much from the religious folks.
I just thank “God” that my kids were not subjected to religious malarky disguised as science in their classrooms. When will people finally understand that God=Evolution.
February 13th, 2007 at 2:58 pmPerhaps candidate McCain would like ot speak at a Flying Spagetti Monster event.
February 13th, 2007 at 3:41 pmGood thing I never voted for this idiot, I am ashamed of the thoughts that come from my country and, in this case, my state. They are suffocating the advancement of global society.
February 13th, 2007 at 3:44 pmGood video shorts containing McCain’s flip-flops:
February 13th, 2007 at 3:44 pmhttp://therealmccain.com/
[…] Print This Post From ThinkProgress.org: McCain To Deliver Keynote Speech For Creationists […]
February 13th, 2007 at 3:47 pm[…] John McCain keynote speaker at Creationist meetin on Darwin Day […]
February 13th, 2007 at 3:59 pm“All points of view should be presented” is such a flaccid, wishy-washy defense of anything.
David Duke thinks black people should still sit in the back of the bus, and it’s okay to call Arabs “towelheads.” Should we allow his point of view to be presented in our classrooms?
February 13th, 2007 at 3:59 pmMcCain just lost any consideration from me. I will not even consider voting for him now. It’s one thing to suck up to right wing xtian loons, it’s another to promote creationism in public science class and show a complete disregard for a federal court ruling that intelligent design is religion and not science.
Also, the Discovery Institute is the most dishonest and full of s*** organization in north america. Wrong right wing xtian loony group to snuggle up with, mcCain. You blew it :-)
Boris
February 13th, 2007 at 4:27 pm[…] Think Progress » McCain To Deliver Keynote Speech For Creationists Today is Darwin Day, commemorating the anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth and of the publishing of On the Origin of Species. The National Academy of Sciences, “the nation’s most prestigious scientific organization,” declares evolution “one of the strongest and most useful scientific theories we have.” President Bush’s science adviser John Marburger calls it “the cornerstone of modern biology.” Yet, on February 23, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will be the keynote speaker for the most prominent creationism advocacy group in the cou