Leaked Letter Reveals Conservative Strategy For Iraq Debate: Don’t Talk About Iraq
Leaked Letter Reveals Conservative Strategy For Iraq Debate: Don’t Talk About Iraq
This week, the House of Representatives is debating a resolution opposing President Bush’s Iraq escalation. The resolution is just 58 words long, and has only one purpose: “Disapproving of the decision of the President announced on January 10, 2007, to deploy more than 20,000 additional United States combat troops to Iraq.”
But a leaked letter obtained today by Majority Leader Steny Hoyer’s (D-MD) office reveals that conservatives have formulated a strategy to avoid talking about the central question of the debate.
In the letter, leading conservative Reps. John Shadegg (R-AZ) and Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) inform their allies: “The debate should not be about the surge or its details. This debate should not even be about the Iraq war to date, mistakes that have been made, or whether we can, or cannot, win militarily.” Shadegg and Hoekstra warn, if conservatives are forced to debate “the surge or the current situation in Iraq, we lose.”
Instead, they write, “the debate must be about the global threat of the radical Islamic movement.” The problem is they lose that debate too.
UPDATE: Greg Sargent has more.
UPDATE II: A text version of the letter is HERE.
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Now they want to scare the opposition into cowering from a debate.
Thats like saying "if we keep using the Constitution, it will embolden the enemies"
February 13th, 2007 at 6:06 pmPoor little whiney Republicans aren't used to have to debate stuff, and even forced to do stuff, whaaaaa.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:06 pmNovember 7, 2006
They lost. Period.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:07 pmShadegg, another a-hole from AZ. Pffft.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:09 pmJust call your debate opponent a traitor and run like hell...
February 13th, 2007 at 6:10 pmThat's some strategy!
Hah, at least they know they have lost that debate.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:10 pmOBL TELEGRAM TO W; THANK YOU THANK YOU
Dear Georgie,
THANK YOU for letting up on the hunt for me.
THANK YOU for creating new orphans and Jihadists everyday.
THANK YOU for supporting my family and whitewashing the 9/11 investigation (guess we both were dirty)
THANK YOU for invading Iraq for that I will always be thankful.
THANK YOU for spending all your resources and children to die in the optional war of Iraq .
THANK YOU FOR LEAVING OFFICE WITHOUT GETTING ME.
AS A GESTURE OF MY APPRECIATION I WILL OR AL-ZAWAHARI WILL PUT OUT TAPES FROM TIME TO TIME TO HELP YOUR POLL NUMBERS LIKE WE HELPED YOU GET ELECTED IN 2004
HUGS AND KISSES,
Osama Bin Forgotten
OBL FREE = HISTORICAL COLLASSAL FAILURE
February 13th, 2007 at 6:11 pmSigh...
They're so worried about perception, be damned real world situations.
"Please don't let us have to defend our defenseless position."
February 13th, 2007 at 6:11 pmThe debate should be about....the color of Pelosi's pant suit....the length of her plane.....the lessons for the Post 9-11 Republican to be taken from Governor LePetomaine's management style in "Blazing Saddles".
February 13th, 2007 at 6:14 pmInstead, they write, “the debate must be about the global threat of the radical Islamic movement.†The problem is they lose that debate too.
Because most Republicans do not understand the difference between debate and inuendo.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:15 pmTo debate you actually have to know facts based in reality.
If you listened to the speakers thus far they have all read the memo. Failed Rape-Public-Cans trying to give us a skewed lesson in history. Ver drole, sanctimonious and laden with empty rhetoric.
Do they really want to discuss the failed Colonialist foreign policy f*ckup agenda? Premptive War on a soverign Nation? Great examples.
Sadly we are 2 generations from even being able to discuss the self destructive corporate hegomy, manifest destiny, imperialist traps, because by then we will cease to be.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:15 pmWhat a spineless bunch of yellow-bellied losers. Congress had better put these pundits out of our misery and quick. They make me puke in my own mouth and if I had a chance to save one of them or a disgusting cockroach, I'd choose the latter. Even a frigging insect has more class than these creeps. You can't even debate them- they're so F* obtuse.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:16 pmYour Conscience sez:
Don't be too hard on Chimpy...it's hard to capture a person who's been dead for years.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:17 pmYeah, Chimpin' ain't easy ya know.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:20 pmGood thing these 2 morons won't get what they want.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:22 pmDear leading conservative reps;
Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England,
nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders
of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament,
or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought
to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country.
-Herman Goering, Nazi. Second in Command of the Third Reich
February 13th, 2007 at 6:24 pmHe was also Commander-in-Chief of Forschungsamt (“FAâ€), the Nazi underground
monitoring services for telephone and radio communications.
To: American liberals
Thank you for uncovering phony torture in Abu Grhaib
Thank you for revealing your governments intelligence gathering methods
Thank you for inciting by fellow arabs by accusing your troops of flushing the koran down the toilet
Thank you for accusing your troops of terrorizing women and children in the middle of the night
Thank you for comparing your troops to Nazis
Thank you forging military records of your President. You have no idea what a laugh the arab world got from that!
Thank you for all the protests you continue to have supporting our cause!
Thank you for revealing your governments secret prisons. We are putting a plan together to free our oppressed brothers and kill all the guards!
Thank you for pressuring your government to cut and run. Controlling that region's oil flow will be a pain in the butt with Americans in the way!
In closing, we know we can continue to rely on the full support from our friends on the left and as my thanks I will promise you that when I give the order to attack by our planted American cells we will slit your throats last!
OBL
February 13th, 2007 at 6:29 pm#17 - Apparently michael knows where Osama bin Laden is, and receives correspondence from him. This calls for extraordinary rendition to a secret prison in Saudi Arabia. Commence waterboarding!
February 13th, 2007 at 6:36 pmphony torture? You know this michael? You KNOWthis? I won't point for point you but the truth hurts you. So much so that you deny it and get mad at who showed you what the truth is.
Thanks for brining up the phony military documents about GW's service. Wish we could see the real ones but nobody's been able to produce those. hmmmmm.
You're sick and missinformed. Try stepping outside of yourself and your opinions and objectively look at each one of your "thank you's".
The republics are avoiding the 800 pound gorilla in the room and you rant off about old, debunked talking points.
Revealing secret prisons is a bad thing? Please produce the actual military records of the president so we can put that whole he never served crap to bed. I'd love to see them.
Did you forget we are a free society? You voice, as asinine it is, has a right to speak out. Just as all who oppose this current administration.
thank you for remembering that.
OBL, that's funny. I haven't heard any republican in power mention his name in quiet some time. Is that also on a memo?
February 13th, 2007 at 6:40 pmHey, that memo looks like Vince P. wrote it!
Michael the seaman, what was your MOS?
February 13th, 2007 at 6:41 pmIn listening to some of these whiney, chicken Repugs on C-SPAN, they are following the directive but their argument holds no water. There was no link between Iraq and al-Qaida. No link between Iraq and 9-11. No WMDs, no nuclear program. All they are proving is that they are delusional and not fight to be in Congress.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:42 pmThank you for accusing your troops of terrorizing women and children in the middle of the night Comment by michael
Don't forget they used the same tactic in Vietnam....
February 13th, 2007 at 6:42 pmWall Street Journal Exclusive
Iran Threatening to invade Iraq
Shocking new satellite imagery seems to confirm the fears and suspicions of many at the pentagon and DoD that Iran intends to invade Iraq. With the recent revelations of Iranian government involvement in the supply of weapons and support to Iraqi MDK squads (Murder Death Kill), this news comes at a particularly poignant moment.
A high ranking official at the pentagon who asked that we not divulge his name because he is not authorized to speak to the media called this the “mushroom cloud of smoking guns.†When asked about the details of the satellite photos the high ranking official explained that recent satellite imagery clearly shows the Iranians massing at the Iraq border.
“The new pictures from space that we are receiving show startling and disturbing developments on the Iraq border†the official told us. He continued “…not only are the Iranians clearly displaying intent to discuss sending troops and equipment into Iraq, but in preparation for this massive military campaign they have actually moved the entire country right up to the Iraq border.â€
To confirm his claims the high ranking official showed to the WSJ staff members present some of the actual photos. The staff members confirm that the pictures do clearly display the country of Iran right at Iraq’s border. Because of the classified nature of the photos the WSJ was only able to view the photos but cannot print or publish them.
When asked whether this evidence was damning enough to warrant an immediate and sizable military response from the United State, the official conceded that it might not be enough for “(T)he liberal left who seem to be rooting for the terrorists to win.†The official then speculated that “…I would imagine that even the anti-freedom democrats would be convinced if another terrorist sponsor, say Syria for example, were to amass its country on the Iraq border as well.â€
Certainly time will tell.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:43 pmThank you for uncovering phony torture in Abu Grhaib
Comment by michael — February 13, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
"Phony torture". Right. The pictures were "doctored", the trials never happened, and the culprits were not convicted.
You may want to get new talking points. This one was operative about, hm, three years ago.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:43 pmThank you for uncovering phony torture in Abu Grhaib - OBL
Comment by michael — February 13, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
Thank you michael, for finally admitting you're an Islamic terrorist. The first step towards recovery, is admitting you're sick. Glad you admitted you're the spokesperson for OBL.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:44 pmAnna Quindlin hits the nail on the head in this weeks Newsweek. Her timetable... start bringing our troops home TOMORROW. Bush supporters want to give this SURGE a chance to work. What if it ends in disaster, like the Beirut Marine Barracks tragedy?? Our troops are referring to their base in the city of Baghdad as the "Alamo". Lets hope the insurgents just lay low and wait for us to leave, rather than dramatically demonstrate our Vulnerabilities to the whole world.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:44 pmShhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Maybe the taxpayer citizens won't notice.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:45 pmShhhhhhhh! Maybe the taxpayer citizens won't notice.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:46 pmHundreds of thousands of people murdered, more dying every day, billions looted from the treasury, and still they can only think of how to defeat their political enemies.
I'll say it again - no one with a soul can remain a member of the Republican party as it is today.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:47 pmZooey - Good one - your response to michael was too funny. That was way too easy. Just like any other neocon Republic... so easy to bait them. They step right into the trap and continue to make fools of themselves.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:47 pmSo Michael, what do you think about Republican Reps wanting to avoid the current situation in Iraq or the surge because they will lose?
Or are you following their example for the same reason?
February 13th, 2007 at 6:48 pmI want to debate with liberals:
Why do you love abortion?
Why do you think it's okay for two men to marry?
Why do you loathe the military?
Why won't you support your President in a time of war?
Why are your talking points the same as Osama bin Laden?
Why do you want all drugs to be legal?
Why do you care about privacy instead of security?
Why do you hate President Bush?
February 13th, 2007 at 6:48 pmsounds like treason. they want to kill vicariously.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:50 pmproud and noble little soldiers, aren't they?
Tuber, please send more. The fiction is masterful. full of suspense and mystery. Have you checked out what is really going on in Iran? Their Pres has about the same approval ratings as ours and he's also saber rattling. Seems like they read the same book in how to keep fear going.
Don't stop with the BS stories, you've had a wealth of similar stories coming from the White House for years.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:52 pmI want to debate with liberals:
Why do you love abortion?
Why do you think it’s okay for two men to marry?
Comment by firehead
Why do you bring religous values into American lawmaking.... I'm not even a liberal and I can debate many of these topics with you, if you like...
February 13th, 2007 at 6:52 pmOur troops referring to their base as "the Alamo"? That's not encouraging.
Thanks for brining up the phony military documents about GW’s service. Wish we could see the real ones but nobody’s been able to produce those. hmmmmm.
Since Cheney is the REAL president, what do you suppose Cheney has on Bush that keeps Bush from exposing Cheney? Could Cheney know something about Bush being AWOL?
February 13th, 2007 at 6:53 pmmichael —? firehead — ? Vince P. ?
February 13th, 2007 at 6:53 pmHere's more on the "Top 10 GOP Talking Points."
February 13th, 2007 at 6:54 pmbut, once again, will brian williams, or katie or, who is abc?,
February 13th, 2007 at 6:55 pmwill any of these fine "news" "reporters" inform their audience of this?
hmmmmm?
Wow. what a complete freak show this disaster has become. $400 billion gone. No "Public Enemy #1 (OBL)" ever caught. No WMds. Generals in the military saying there is no way we can "win". Pallets of cash missing. The majority of the American people and Congress want out, but W and Cheney turn their heads etc, etc, etc........
February 13th, 2007 at 6:58 pmMy question is - what doesn't the 27% see?
Ok, just this once, and only because I'm on a sweet Nyquil buzz....
I want to debate with liberals:
Why do you love abortion?
You know, once you have 4 or 5, you start to miss the days of cramping, bleeding, and hormone swings.
Why do you think it’s okay for two men to marry?
Well, the receptions are FAB-U-LOUS, for one thing. But frankly, it's none of my business. I bet you don't have a problem with lesbians, do ya firehead? A little extra fantasy action, huh....?
Why do you loathe the military?
I love the military! See my response to your abortion question.
Why won’t you support your President in a time of war?
Don't wanna.
Why are your talking points the same as Osama bin Laden?
I don't DO talking points, firehead. Why are your talking points the same as Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh?
Why do you want all drugs to be legal?
Because I hate the taste of frickin' Nyquil.
Why do you care about privacy instead of security?
I like a little privacy in my PRIVATE life, thanks. Why are you pissing your bed every night?
Why do you hate President Bush?
Comment by firehead
Because he's a liar and mass murderer.
Heh. That was fun. :)
February 13th, 2007 at 7:00 pmfirehead sez:
Straw man. Not worth a response.
Why don't you? How does two men marrying injure you?
Straw man. Not worth a response.
Because he used ginned-up intelligence to con the Legislature into supporting an illegal invasion and occupation...an impeachable offense.
Straw man. Not worth a response.
Straw man. Not worth a response.
Straw man. Not worth a response.
Because no one has done more to harm this country.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:01 pmwell now i know why "boner" was crying. his side is loaded with idiots.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:01 pmI want to debate with liberals:
Why do you love abortion?
Why do you think it’s okay for two men to marry?
Why do you loathe the military?
Why won’t you support your President in a time of war?
Why are your talking points the same as Osama bin Laden?
Why do you want all drugs to be legal?
Why do you care about privacy instead of security?
Why do you hate President Bush?
Comment by firehead — February 13, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
- Liberals don't love abortion... Liberals mind their own business.
- Liberals don't care who marries who as long as the couple is happy.... Liberals mind their own business.
- Liberals don't hate the military - I have liberal friends that are serving in the military.
- Liberals support the President in a time of war... say like WWII and not some drummed up phoney aggressive war for oil profits.
- I haven't seen any liberal talking points that mimic Osama bin Laden so please provide the EXACT words and links to the sources.
- Drugs should be legal so that we can collect taxes on these drugs to help pay for the deficit created by the NeoCons.
- There is no security without privacy. Once again, liberals mind their own business.
- Liberals don't hate President Bush. They hate his policies.
Hope that answers your questions.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:02 pmto micheal:
Thanks for proving you do not have any facts to back up your insane statementes by never providing links when asked
Thanks for not providing your MOS when challenged on your claim you are a vet, proving you are not a vet. ( MOS is no big secret bud and doesn't provide any of your personal info, btw )
Thanks for showing how moronic the 28 percenters are for the world to see.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:02 pmTo #33:
1. There is no more personal decision a woman can make than
February 13th, 2007 at 7:03 pmwhether or not to have a child - it is not government's business.
2. Why do you think it isn't okay for two people who love each other
to marry?
3. Not liberals who have broken the military over the last 5 years, but
your neo-con hero.
4. If the president lies about the reasons for war it is unpatriotic to
support both the war and the president
5. Sorry, but as I recall, there was a statement from some jihadist
that Bush being reelected was the best thing for them.
6. All drugs? So you are okay with all the drugs currently advertised
on television - you know the ones where the cozy baritone says,
"Ask your doctor about (fill in the blank)?" And I guess you're okay
with elderly Americans paying 3 to 4 times as much for those drugs
as folks in countries with sane health care policies.
7. Because as Benjamin Franklin (remember him?) said, those who
will give up liberty for security deserve neither.
8. Don't hate the man personally, just hate what he's done to my
country.
33. Here's a couple to chew on
Why do you loathe the military? Neve did and for you to assume that is asinine, childish, sophmoric and just plain dumb.
Why won’t you support your President in a time of war? First, it's not a war. Never has been. You believe a lie. Congress declares war and hasn't done so with this. Second, this president took his eye off the prize when we wrongly attacked Iraq. So if you really want to debate me, and I'm not talking for all liberals, you get your facts together about why we jumped into Iraq. If you think you can stand on them then bring it on (remember those words?).
Why are your talking points the same as Osama bin Laden?I don't think you know any of OBL's talking points. I'll give you one. He wants to financially bankrupt this country. He doesn't have to attack and our fear machine gets whipped into a frenzy. You know where the money goes? How about no bid contracts. Liberal talking points are no closer to OBL's as Bush is to a real fiscal conservative republican.
You're a hack that's blinded and can't come to the rationalization that you're/our president has missled us. Where's the money coming from and what positives have been made from this?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:05 pmFirehead got his responses so moving forward, as all progressives do.
Don't the Republics in Congress realize that "the memo" becomes obvious when they all stand in front of the House and say the same thing? Stupid is as stupid does.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:06 pm1. There is no more personal decision a woman can make than
whether or not to have a child - it is not government’s business.
Comment by powkat
See now I can debate both sides of this bad boy... Why do men get screwed when the woman makes her own personal choice to have the baby?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:07 pmHey i saw these questions and although, whoever above wrote them used hannitys talking points ill take a shot at the answers
I want to debate with liberals:
Why do you love abortion? I love abortion as much as you love the death penalty (they are both killing)
Why do you think it’s okay for two men to marry? Its progress and just look at the movements in this country (womens right to vote, abolition, etc.) civil rights movements always come to fruition
Why do you loathe the military? I was in the military 8 years in fact. A lot of us were. In fact 2 Dem senators (webb and johnson) have sons in IRAQ. The problem there is the question, just because you say we LOATHE the mlitary doesnt make it so. ALSO if W and Cheney love the military why did CHeney take 5 deferments and W take time off during the Vietnam war to work on a senate campaign in Alabama.
Why won’t you support your President in a time of war? There is no right by any president at anytime to expect support on any issue. The real question would be why SHOULD everyone support a president during the time of war. I always thought he was lying about IRAQ I figured he was doing it to move into SYRIA and IRAN, but he didnt have the tummy for it.
Why are your talking points the same as Osama bin Laden? I didnt know you were in contact with him, show me where our talking points are the same. If i used that logic, the conservatives have the same talking points as the KLAN, which i think i could finesse an arguement for but im sure you would disagree with. Or maybe you wouldnt?
Why do you want all drugs to be legal? I dont know anyone that is serious about that.
Why do you care about privacy instead of security? Because my rights are guarenteed in the constitution (read the federalist papers) and I wont abdicate them for anyone. Besides do use a line the right wing likes "if i give up my rights then the terrorists have won", pretty cool, huh?
Why do you hate President Bush,? I only hate him as much as YOU hate Clinton, so you tell me, do I hate Bush?
Good night now
February 13th, 2007 at 7:09 pmSpeaking of the House of Reps, we had a front page story in our local paper on Sunday of an interview with Rep. David Davis. He said that the Democrats were anti-business.
Also said they were arrogant and in previous interviews has whined that the Dems may not treat them fair, and wouldn't let them offer amendments or have time to debate legislation. I wonder...just where the hell was he during the last 12 years?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:09 pmWhy do you loathe the military? Neve did and for you to assume that is asinine, childish, sophmoric and just plain dumb.
Comment by hellinabucket
Leave Mrs. Campbell out of this!!!
February 13th, 2007 at 7:09 pmFirehead,
Quit crying like a weeping boner, and get that thing into a Dr. ASAP.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:10 pm#33-Farthead,
This should be fun. Here goes:
Why do you love abortion?
I don’t, but I believe in the rights of the individual to make their own choices regarding their own life and values.
Why do you think it’s okay for two men to marry?
I don’t, but I believe in the rights of the individual to make their own choices regarding their own life and values.
Why do you loathe the military?
I don’t. Which is why I volunteered to serve in the military and did so with honor. How about you?
Why won’t you support your President in a time of war?
There is no declared war. The president is wrong and has been proven to be so. People are being murdered, tortured, and terrorized as the result of an invasion that was based on lies. Any responsible citizen should be fighting this atrocity tooth and nail. Just as we all have wished that the German citizens would have.
Why are your talking points the same as Osama bin Laden?
There is not a single liberal “talking point†that I have heard OSB utter. Please cite specific examples with the proper supporting documentation. Otherwise you will just be talking out of you’re a$$ (which does explain your screen name).
Why do you want all drugs to be legal?
So that I can put up with morons such as yourself.
Why do you care about privacy instead of security?
Without privacy there can be no national security. Security without privacy is called “confinementâ€. A nation of the “confined†is called a Penal Colony. If that’s where you want to live, then go to one.
Why do you hate President Bush?
I do not “hate†Bush. I despise evil and I despise criminals and murderers. So I would say that I “despise†Bush.
Next…
February 13th, 2007 at 7:10 pmWhy does Firehead hate our Constitution?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:10 pmbetter yet - will pelosi or hoyer read this memo
February 13th, 2007 at 7:11 pmout loud on the floor tomorrow?
Wayne - folks must be getting smarter... the percentage of morons is shrinking. Used to be 34% and now, the last time I looked, it was down to 27%. Fits right in line with the philosophy of the story "Who moved the Cheese?"... there's always approximately 1/3 of any given population that will remain stupid no matter what happens to them.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:11 pmNo you don't.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:13 pmron, speaking of Hannity I went to Restate's website and you can get Hannity's, Coulter's and O'Rielly's books for a buck each. Can't even get a double QB with cheese meal for three bucks. Although they wouldn't be as filling.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:14 pmIt appears Firehead is whining and crying about how his Congress has taken some semblence of Democracy, and now there is the possibility of debate on the subject.
Don't worry little camper, in the end I don't think much will have changed except a lot of arguing has occurred. I don't think the Dems will do more than debate on it.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:14 pm[...] in GOP, Iraq War, Congress at 4:24 pm by LeisureGuy From ThinkProgress: This week, the House of Representatives is debating a resolution opposing President Bush’s Iraq [...]
February 13th, 2007 at 7:17 pmWC - wow, another whining Republic... waaa waaa waaa... they cry more than my newborn grandson when he's hungry. And when in the last 12 years did the Republics treat the Democrats fairly. I met with my Representative, a Democrat, and he told me that it was really tough during those 12 years. He said that the Democrats were pushed aside and silenced. The Democrats couldn't bring anything to the floor for debate. It was all the Republics "Contract ON America" agenda.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:17 pmkaty - that would be fun... Pelosi or Hoyer reading the memo. I'm working from home tomorrow so guess I'll have to have CSPAN on in the background. I'll be listening :)
February 13th, 2007 at 7:20 pmthis is great - worth another look:
Anthony Weiner Rips the "Republic Party"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqprEihjXg&eurl=
.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:26 pmWhy do men get screwed when the woman makes her own personal choice to have the baby?
Comment by joe mama
Reaching strawman
clarify, please.
And phrase it as a statement not a question
cite any evidence to back up your statement
new name again rachel?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:26 pmWhy do you care about privacy instead of security?
Comment by firehead — February 13, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
Hey buttwipe. Bush and the NSA do not need the phone records of tens of millions of Americans (adding up to a trillion or so calls) to track known or suspected terrorists. Remember, these are the types of people the NSA is supposedly targeting with warrantless wiretapping.
Given that complete strangers have access to your personal information, and given that there are cases where that personal info has been stolen and in some cases sold, you are an idiot for being so trusting. You trust the government, an organization that several decades ago plotted to attack its own people and then blame it on Cuba so that we could attack them? Google "Operation Northwoods."
Funny that Bush bitches and whines that we don't have time to go get a FISA warrant to listen to a known or suspected terrorist in America talk to another terrorists in, say, Pakistan. But he runs to FISA and says "no problem...I'll get a warrant" when it's a call from, say, Dallas to Los Angeles.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:30 pm[...] Think Progress » Leaked Letter Reveals Conservative Strategy For Iraq Debate: Don’t Talk About Ir... Explore posts in the same categories: daily [...]
February 13th, 2007 at 7:30 pm"...the Democratic Party and not the Republic Party..." Gotta love it.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:32 pm33. I want to debate with liberals:
No you don’t.
Comment by Roger A — February 13, 2007 @ 7:13 pm
much more accurate, and takes up way less space...
February 13th, 2007 at 7:32 pmGOP Strategy: Don't Talk About Iraq!...
"In the letter, leading conservative Reps. John Shadegg (R-AZ) and Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) inform their allies: 'The debate should not be about the surge or its details. This debate should not even be about the Iraq war to date, mistakes that have been...
February 13th, 2007 at 7:33 pmThe PR companies that work for the Republican'ts timed things very tightly again. There's a headline today about "AlQaeda's #2 Man saying mean things about dubbie"....
If the Republican'ts are so fired up about all that non-Iraqi terrorizin', WHERE'S OSAMA????
"Never mind Iraq" is going to be the "key" for the Republican'ts???? Doesn't it lead to Afghanistan? and Osama?, both of which are also GLARING FAILURES....
Those guys spend more time with their PR consultants than they do with National Security advisors...what brand of makeup do you suppose Boehner was wearing for his big sob-liloquy today?? Must be good stuff - didn't run at all.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:39 pmmichael (firehead or is it dickhead? too); supporting Bush is akin to supporting Hitler. No ifs, ands. or butts. Bush/Cheney et al are WAR CRIMINALS. period
February 13th, 2007 at 7:41 pmCrimes against peace-planing and waging a war of aggression(invasion/occupation of Iraq-which had absolutely NOTHING to do with 11 Sept. 2001). A violation of the Kellogg=Briand pact of 1928, the UN charter of 1945, and the Nuremberg rulings of 1946.
Crimes against Humanity. the abduction/imprisonment/torture of innocent civilians in other countries into secret prisons -some of which resulted in the death of said prisoners.
Not to mention the too-many-to-list breaking of domestic laws-secret wiretaps in violation of FISA law, monitoring e-mails/bank records, and regular 'snail mail' without any warrents.
You euncih trolls should squat lower when reading your bible-Mein Kampf.
Shadegg and Hoekstra are two of the VILEST repugnant-repubs(republicans) around--the hideous STENCH these two FILTHY, LYING SACKS OF HYENA-CRAP exude is horrendous enough to ward any True Patriotic American away with their COWARDLY, DEFEATIST INNUENDO and SMEAR-TACTIC JINGOSTIC FASCISM--may they be ROUNDLY DEFEATED in 2008 and GO WHIMPERING HOME TO THEIR FILTH-ENCRUSTED HOVELS WITH THEIR HYENA-TAILS BETWEEN THEIR LEGS AND THEIR EXCREMENT-COVERED HEADS HUNG LOW!!!!! WOE BE ONTO THEM, A GEAS IS NOW PLACED UPON THEM BOTH!
February 13th, 2007 at 7:42 pmmuch more accurate, and takes up way less space…
Comment by katy
But I had so much fun....
:)
February 13th, 2007 at 7:42 pmI want to debate with liberals:
Why do you love abortion?
Why do you insist on pulling insane accusations out of your ass?
I don't love abortion. Personally, I think it's wrong unless it's in the case of rape or incest, or if the health of the mother is at stake. But it's none of my business how other people make their choices.
My wife and I had a heart wrenching conversation about this over 6 years ago prior to the birth of our daughter. She said that if there were any complications during pregnancy and there was a choice between her life and the child's, save the baby and let her die. I said no, that I'd rather choose her life because we could always have another baby.
So in essence, firehead, it's none of your f*cking business regarding the choices I make regarding this issue.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:42 pm"phony torture? You know this michael? You KNOWthis?"
I know when I look at those dopey pictures the left uses to accuse our military of torture, I don't see any torture!
"Wish we could see the real ones but nobody’s been able to produce those. hmmmmm."
What are you looking for? Maybe a letter similar to the one kerry received 5 years after his separation suggesting that his original discharge was less than honorable?
"Revealing secret prisons is a bad thing?"
Yes! Especially when you are placing the lives of Americans in jeopardy, but I know that revealing these things to our enemies has never been a problem for you liberals, after all, they are just the military.
"Did you forget we are a free society?"
No I didn't forget but with continued traitorous acts from you liberals, how much longer can we claim that we are a free society?
"Just as all who oppose this current administration"
Still can't get over 2000 and 2004?
"I haven’t heard any republican in power mention his name in quiet some time."
While you liberals continue to be fixated with one individual our military continues to fight terrorists where ever they are so that people like you can continue to have the freedom to be stupid!
February 13th, 2007 at 7:44 pmDayumm Michael just admitted he's OBL!
You don't have much to worry about MOBL, George doesn't care where you are. BYW OBL was an arab from Saudi, not Iraq.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:44 pmthere’s always approximately 1/3 of any given population that will remain stupid no matter what happens to them.
Comment by CoffinsDrapedWithFlags
hehe
Yeah, you know the old saying:
You just can't fix stupid.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:45 pmYou euncih trolls should squat lower when reading your bible-Mein Kampf.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Don't start holding back now, Uncle Ho! Tell us how you really feel! :)
February 13th, 2007 at 7:45 pmWhy do you think it’s okay for two men to marry? -Firehead
Change the men to women and ask Dick Cheney.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:48 pm"“Phony tortureâ€. Right. The pictures were “doctoredâ€, the trials never happened, and the culprits were not convicted.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — February 13, 2007 @ 6:43 pm
Yes trials were held and some people were punished for bad taste! Point out just ONE of those photos that actually shows someone being tortured?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:49 pmDoes this taint Shadegg even more than he already is?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:50 pmWhile you liberals continue to be fixated with one individual our military continues to fight terrorists where ever they are so that people like you can continue to have the freedom to be stupid!
Comment by michael
Prove you know something about the military, since you claimed to be a vet.
Your MOS michael, simple request.
All other discussion with you is moot, till you prove and back up your claims michael.
Still waiting....
February 13th, 2007 at 7:51 pmWayne; stupid is as stupid does. heh.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:52 pm"Bush supporters want to give this SURGE a chance to work. What if it ends in disaster"
It's amazing you defeatists on the left give our military so little credit for what we have trained them to do.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:52 pmI hate to tell these deluded Republicans but they've lost all debates already! It's over for them, for their candidates in 08, and for this lameduck administration. The longer they ignore the debacle called Iraq, the worse the damage will be to their candidates in 08. The longer the people fume and become disgusted, the greater the Democratic victory in 08. If I were a Rethug (thank god I'm not cursed with their dementia) and were considering a run for public office these days, I think I'd blow my money on the horse races instead! At least I'd have half a chance of winning there! These guys (Guliani, McCain, et al) don't have a chance in hell unless/until the Iraq War is no longer in the "hearts and minds" of the american people.
Someone please whisper in the ears of these guys that "You guys lost the debate long ago in case you didn't notice."
February 13th, 2007 at 7:53 pm#83 ahahahahahahah! Are you serious? I do hope you're kidding or you will be the butt of incredible ridicule here on these threads. You'd better go and do your homework before Mommy catches you online, dude.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:54 pmComment by CoffinsDrapedWithFlags — February 13, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
Our local paper loves Davis. In at least two "news" articles about him, he has trashed the Democrats and the newspaper pastes him on the front page. Funny that in one of the first interviews, he claimed that he didn't know how he was going to vote for the bills offered up during Nancy's first 100 hours. Yeah, right. He ended up voting "no" on 5 of the 6 bills.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:55 pmI want to debate with liberals:
Comment by firehead — February 13, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
That was an hour and 15 minutes ago. Are you still researching your answers on the RNC website? Hell of a way to conduct a debate...
February 13th, 2007 at 7:55 pmI detect a definite similarity in response here.....psychotroll #22? Is it Michael or is it Rachel today? Guess it depends if you're wearing your Merle Norman foundation this eveing, eh?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:56 pmHiya Zooey! I've some trouble trying to register for that site. My e-mail comes via great lakes, not yahoo, etc.-plus a message popped up saying my javascript needs to be on, but when I went into tools, it said it was already enabled-any recommendations?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:56 pmBusted!
February 13th, 2007 at 7:56 pm#22 doesn't refer back to anyone's thread per se....it refers to the monikers of one infamously deluded troll who visits this site with a myriad of alter egos. very comical, indeed.
February 13th, 2007 at 7:56 pmt’s amazing you defeatists on the left give our military so little credit for what we have trained them to do.
Comment by michael
That makes no sense. Bush tried too use the troops for nation building, something HE PROMISED he would not do during his election speeches, and thats exactly what sent them to do.
YOU do remembet that lie don't you?
February 13th, 2007 at 7:58 pmWHy do you support someone that lies?
I went into tools, it said it was already enabled-any recommendations?
Comment by Uncle Ho
Oy, keep trying? Heh. I wish I knew something about how computers work. Is there an update for javascript? I don't think it's your email causing the problem -- I use my local email for that site, no problem.
I'll see if anyone knows what to do. :)
February 13th, 2007 at 8:02 pmIt’s amazing you defeatists on the left give our military so little credit for what we have trained them to do.
Comment by michael — February 13, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
It has nothing to do with the training of our military. It's just that we've had 130,000 to 150,000 troops fighting what our local paper describes as "several thousand insurgents" for almost 4 years and we are no closer to victory.
Bush telling the Iraqis that this 20,000 troop surge has to work "because I told them so" does not inspire much confidence in me. A surge in troops has been tried, what, 2 times before? What makes you think it will work this time, Bush's reason notwithstanding?
February 13th, 2007 at 8:06 pmmicheal & Jet Mech; food for thought here:
"I will lose 10 men for every one of yours, but even at those odds, I will win and you will lose."-Ho Chi Minhto the French in 1946
February 13th, 2007 at 8:07 pmI went into tools, it said it was already enabled-any recommendations?
Comment by Uncle Ho
Try enabling Java as well, if you enable Javascript you must reload the page, also try turning off your pop up blocker (if on) and allow the cookie(s) from that site.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:09 pmYOU do remembet that lie don’t you?
WHy do you support someone that lies?
Comment by Jet Mech — February 13, 2007 @ 7:58 pm
Don't forget that Bush also said that America wouldn't be the policemen of the world, which is exactly what he did when he sent our troops in to Iraq for reason #5: to save the Iraqis from an evil man.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:09 pmWhat a bunch of snakes.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:10 pmI will lose 10 men for every one of yours, but even at those odds, I will win and you will lose.â€-Ho Chi Minhto the French in 1946
Comment by Uncle Ho
Rummy sent way less than what was asked for as well.
Most of the Generals told him they would need 400-500K troops.
Shock and Awe they said, smart bombs and high tech!
Truth is Michael we had leaders that ignored the advice of the Generals.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:14 pmJet Mech; thanks for the tip, but do I really need to have cookies enabled? What a hassle.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:16 pmTry enabling Java as well, if you enable Javascript you must reload the page, also try turning off your pop up blocker (if on) and allow the cookie(s) from that site.
Comment by Jet Mech
Oh yeah, I forgot I had to turn off my pop up blocker. I don't get pop ups on that site, though.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:16 pmJet Mech; isn't 500K the current troop strength of the entire US Army?
February 13th, 2007 at 8:18 pmComment by michael #83
...rotten seeds...
...produce rotten fruit...
...Bush's presidency/war obviously has a lot in common with...
...your parents....
February 13th, 2007 at 8:29 pmWhy won’t you support your President in a time of war?
I do support this president in the war against the people who attacked my country on September 11, 2001. They are a terrorist orginization called Al Queda. They are harbored by the Taliban, in Afghanistan and Pakistan. If my president would only pour more resources into the effort to kill and destroy these people (or folks, as he sometimes refers to them), I would support him even more. However, he decided to use the wealth, equity, and sweat of our great nation to persecute a people that never attacked us. This I can never support.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:31 pmIt’s amazing you defeatists on the left give our military so little credit for what we have trained them to do.
Comment by michael
It is amazing that you demean our military by claiming to be a vet and don't even know your MOS. You are really a disgusting person.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:15 pmThe Republicans got us into an unwinable war that has destroyed an innocent country, has left thousands of American dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, has cost a bloody fortune, has been going on for 4 years with no end in sight AND THEY DON"T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT?
February 13th, 2007 at 9:21 pmAll Chickenshit Chickenhawk cowardly warmongers should enlist to serve in Iraq to allow those who have already served this stupid war, based on lies, to leave. Republicans are proving their ignorance and the reason they got us into a war that has nothing to do with our country. This war was dreamed up and started by a drunken AWOL coward, a five deferment coward and all the other cowards in the PNAC who never wore a uniform or served in battle. The Republican Party has gone down in history and will never recover from their past twelve years of failed policy and criminal actions.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:30 pmComment by rachel " the ricj jew " kinnardi
Get a life rachel
February 13th, 2007 at 9:30 pmStudy: Chimps may have used 'hammers' 4,300 years ago
POSTED: 5:17 p.m. EST, February 12, 2007
• Stone "hammers" dating back 4,300 years may have been used by chimps
• The hammers, about the size of cantaloupes, were found in West Africa
• Anthropologist skeptical of findings, calls for more evidence
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Chimpanzees may have been using stone "hammers" as long as 4,300 years ago, an international research team, led by archaeologist Julio Mercader of the University of Calgary, Canada, said Monday.
Apparently the Chimpya knew how to use tools a long time ago.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:49 pmComment by hwy61 — February 13, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
Well said!
February 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pmmuch more accurate, and takes up way less space…
Comment by katy
But I had so much fun….
:)
Comment by Zooey — February 13, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
oh, i know... it's hard to resist at times...
February 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pmi didn't mean to hurt your feelings, or spoil your fun...
.
I keep for getting michael. You're an idiot. Thanks for reminding me. You can't be shown anything. We've been down this road before. You didn't bother looking up any of your accusations did you?
michael, you don't debate. You lie.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:12 pm[...] example, you’ve got Shaddegg and Hoekstra’s strategy letter to Republicans on today’s Iraq debate saying that they must avoid debate on the surge, the [...]
February 13th, 2007 at 10:16 pm"Prove you know something about the military, since you claimed to be a vet."
I don't have to prove anything about my military background to you! I put in my 5 years honorably, unlike your last military hero kerry! How many years did you put in?
February 13th, 2007 at 10:41 pm"#
#83 ahahahahahahah! Are you serious? I do hope you’re kidding or you will be the butt of incredible ridicule here on these threads. You’d better go and do your homework before Mommy catches you online, dude.
Comment by veritas — February 13, 2007 @ 7:54 pm"
Do you realize that you just said NOTHING? You asked me if I was serious and of course I am otherwise I wouldn't have said it. So, what is it that you are disagreeing with me about and why?
February 13th, 2007 at 10:47 pmGot it?
Comment by rachel kinnardi
Rachel don't let the bovines bother you. Your wealthy, really. Now just sit down call room service, order you a nice dinner, a bottle of the best wine.
Enjoy the spacious hottub, pour a perfectly chilled glass of wine, enjoy the scenery. Relax. Have a drink, it's on the house.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:49 pmIt's simple. We have a (P)resident who is to timid to ride a horse, but who tries to take on an image of the couragous western hero akin to John Wayne's ilk. I have a six year-old granddaughter who does not hesitate to ride a dolphin, even submerged. Does anyone sense a difference here?
February 13th, 2007 at 10:52 pmCaptain \/\/. "Stay the course!"
SPOCKO, "With all due respect sir, what is"The Course?"
Captain \/\/."Stay THE course!!"
SPOCKO. "I cannot speak of it, Sir"
Captain \/\/, "Great! We are still on course!"
February 13th, 2007 at 10:58 pmI don’t have to prove anything about my military background to you! I put in my 5 years honorably, unlike your last military hero kerry! How many years did you put in?
Comment by michael
Assuming facts not in evidence. You can't imagine, or put. your opinion upon another person over the internet.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:08 pm"#
I detect a definite similarity in response here…..psychotroll #22? Is it Michael or is it Rachel today? Guess it depends if you’re wearing your Merle Norman foundation this eveing, eh?
Comment by veritas — February 13, 2007 @ 7:56 pm"
I notice that you had to resort to cuteness instead of intelligence?
February 13th, 2007 at 11:27 pm"I keep for getting michael. You’re an idiot."
"for getting"? Who's the idiot?
February 13th, 2007 at 11:29 pmArriving late into this discussion I find something troubling about the leaked letter.
All this time I thought the reason for a debate in this context was that both sides of the aisle could voice concerns, ideas, and concepts to ultimately come to the appropriate outcome.
This leaked memo suggests the Repugs are not as interested in the dialog as they are in the result. The exercise, I thought, was designed to determine what is best for America and our servicemen, all while respecting the process of transferring thoughts and ideas. I think it is called healthy dialog.
Oh, but just don't mention Iraq. Hello?
February 13th, 2007 at 11:32 pm"who never wore a uniform or served in battle"
Have you?
February 13th, 2007 at 11:33 pm"Assuming facts not in evidence. You can’t imagine, or put. your opinion upon another person over the internet.
Comment by Haw — February 13, 2007 @ 11:08 pm"
What are you trying to say?
February 13th, 2007 at 11:36 pm"Does anyone sense a difference here?"
Yes! Your grandchild is enjoying what talents he/she has, the Commander and Chief is trying to ensure that your grandchild continues to enjoy that freedom. Wake up?
February 13th, 2007 at 11:39 pmthe Commander and Chief is trying to ensure that your grandchild continues to enjoy that freedom. Wake up?
Comment by michael
No, he's trying to run out the clock, now that his legacy is tits up, and stinking like Laura's favorite flashlight.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:56 pmHave you? Comment by michael — February 13, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
Have you served in battle, or did you spend your term hugging a desk. Never mind, we all know the answer - bawk, bawk.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:57 pmWhat are you trying to say? Comment by michael — February 13, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
You should ask yourself that every time you post to avoid your constant waste of bandwidth.
February 13th, 2007 at 11:57 pmYes! Your grandchild is enjoying what talents he/she has, the Commander and Chief is trying to ensure that your grandchild continues to enjoy that freedom. Wake up? Comment by michael — February 13, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
The freedom to never serve in wars, send others to their desks, avoid all responsibilities, never work in a real job, and spend their entire adult life strung out and drunk, only to stumble through, fail as a president and cause the deaths of tens of thousands of people - because that's Bush's only legacy.
Your legacy is obviously avoiding serving in wartime combat, and defend your guilt by attacking those that point out your cowardice. You share a nice legacy, sport.
February 14th, 2007 at 12:00 amMichael asked:
"Why do you care about privacy instead of security?"
History tells (most of) us that one of the most oppressive regimes in the moden era, the Soviet Union, based its "security" on the complete abolition of personal privacy. The results were monstrous, and the Russian people along with their unfortunate neighbors are still suffering the personal, psychological and economic effects of that disastrous policy.
One of the major reasons some still defend this Administration is, I believe, the guilt those must feel who elected it, cheered it on, denigrated any who tried to oppose it, and now realize what a catastrophic blunder they have enabled.
February 14th, 2007 at 12:21 amI don’t have to prove anything about my military background to you! I put in my 5 years honorably, unlike your last military hero kerry! How many years did you put in?
Comment by michael
You are so full of it micheal
my MOS was 31b when I got out. All that means is I was military police when I got out.
Anyone who was in when you said you were would know their MOS.
MOS stands for Military Occupational Specialty
It is what you did when you were in, what your job was.
A fake veteran like you has no credibility to smear a real vet like Kerry.
you lost all credibility, and credibility once lost is never regained
Thanks for playing.
February 14th, 2007 at 12:25 amI notice that you had to resort to cuteness instead of intelligence?
Comment by michael
And i notice always evade and never give any real answer. You never ever back up even one of your claims
Evidence just from your posts show that you wouldn't know intellegence if it slapped you across the face with a 2x4.
As for honesty, I think my last post / answer to you showed I think you have ho honesty and no honor.
February 14th, 2007 at 1:04 am“Why do you care about privacy instead of security?†-- michael
I can't believe you even asked this, you are a real chickenhawk.
And you claim you served in the military.
totally unreal.
He who gives up liberty for security deserves neither.
February 14th, 2007 at 1:49 amYes trials were held and some people were punished for bad taste!
Comment by michael — February 13, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
This post would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. You are actually trying to debate reality: Soldiers were convicted for prisoner abuse, aka torture. It was reported at the time.
Start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse to get the basics. You can also see some of the pictures.
You are a true 30%er. Astounding.
February 14th, 2007 at 1:58 amWow! Did you see the list of terrorist attacks since 2002. Uh oh. Seems the Iraq illegal invasion/occupation hasn't made a lick of difference.
It's time to bring the troops home now!
February 14th, 2007 at 7:17 am"I put in my 5 years honorably"
I think your talking about high school here michael.
February 14th, 2007 at 7:30 amIf we remain free, it will embolden our enemies.
If we maintain a free, secular, liberal democracy, it will embolden our
enemies.
If we debate the fundamental problems of our times, it will embolden our enemies.
If we do not blindly follow our leaders, it will embolden our enemies.
Basically, if we do not become a totalitarian dictatorship, that cares nothing about human rights, civil liberties, secularism, or cultural liberalism, it will embolden our enemies.
February 14th, 2007 at 9:07 amThey know the escalation won't work and yet they STILL SUPPORT IT!!? They know the Iraq war is a fiasco and they won't vote to end it? Is politics all that matters to these ass hats? Sadly the Democrats are even worse- one expects this kind of mind numbingly stupid behavior from Republicans, but the Democrats were handed a mandate to end this war in the November elections and they're still dragging their feet. Self serving, mealy mouthed cowards.
February 14th, 2007 at 9:08 amI would imagine we means Republicans, not Americans. They just want to save their own nasty Republican hides. How many of them have actually seen battle?
"It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell."-
February 14th, 2007 at 9:45 am- William Tecumseh Sherman, Union General American Civil War
[...] [source] [...]
February 14th, 2007 at 9:54 am"Al Zawahiri said in the tape that Bush has been forced to admit his failure in Iraq after he was "stubborn" and repeated the "lie, which he became addicted to, that he is winning" in Iraq and Afghanistan...... The 41-minute audiotape could not be authenticated immediately but was seen by The Associated Press on a Web site commonly used by insurgent groups and carried the logo of the multimedia arm of Al Qaeda, as-Sahab."
- Associated Press, 02/14/07
Do enemy sypathizers in the US get their "talking points" from "Dead-Eye" AlZ,..... or is the other way around?
February 14th, 2007 at 10:44 amGOP House Strategy on Escalation: Don't Mention Iraq...
In the letter, leading conservative Reps. John Shadegg (R-AZ) and Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) inform their allies: “The debate should not be about the surge or its details. This debate should not even be about the Iraq war to date, mistakes that have been ...
February 14th, 2007 at 12:03 pmVV - is this a contest where the person that posts the greatest number of quotes from wackos wins? IF so, I'm going to pack my clipboard over to Stormfront, and we'll see what all the good, sane, white, christians are saying, and whether it's any less insane that the jibber-jabber of some mullah somewhere.
My point is it's point-less (and yes, i thought it would be necessary to point that out to you)
Take your fearmongering and hysteria somewhere that it stands a chance of succeeding - a retirement home, a second grade class, or some such.
February 14th, 2007 at 12:20 pmEither side of the aisle; it's just talk. Where's the cut 'em off at the bills (monetary and statutory) and Impeachment BEEF?!
February 14th, 2007 at 12:30 pmHillary talks out of both sides of her mouth
I saw Hillary Clinton’s DNC speech on C-span where she said if she was President we would have not gone to war in Iraq. Hillary and her husband had more information about why we shouldn’t have gone to war than any other Senator or Congressman.
Why did Clinton vote for a war she did not support? And if she voted for the war because of WMDs, had we found them, how would anything be any different in Iraq? If Hillary supports attacking Countries over WMDs, does she want to attack North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, Syria…?
February 14th, 2007 at 12:50 pmThis is a stupid article. Like a private conversation between two no-name Republicans is really a reflection on Bush's Iraq policy. Republicans are stupid, but Democrats even more so. God forbid we should succeed in Iraq, the Dems would be screwed!
February 14th, 2007 at 1:00 pm"It is amazing that you demean our military by claiming to be a vet and don’t even know your MOS. You are really a disgusting person.
Comment by Wayne — February 13, 2007 @ 9:15 pm"
First of all my MOS has nothing to do with this. When I was in the Navy I wasn't part of any occupation. Although if I was called on to do so, I would have used the skills the Navy trained me in to fulfill my duty. How about you? By the way, calling a person disgusting as a means of debating really doesn't make you look very intelligent to others. It actually makes you look pretty dumb!
February 14th, 2007 at 1:08 pmno one "voted for a war" per se. god i've gotten tired of hearing it debated that way! i don't defend Hilary, but jeeeee-zuss people - the vote was to authorize the use of force to disarm saddam of the fictitious wmd's.
let's try an analogy. your kid asks you to borrow the car to go to the next town. you say OK. the next day, you discover the car's engine and transmission are shot, and it's because the car has been driven at high speeds for hours. you ask the kid, who tells you he was going to the next town to race the car, and it didn't go so well. you're pissed, and then your wife says "well, honey, you told him he could take the car, so you must've wanted him to go race it." Now, what do you say to your wife??
February 14th, 2007 at 1:11 pm"The Republicans got us into an unwinable war that has destroyed an innocent country, has left thousands of American dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead"
Hundreds of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? kid, where did you get this figure? From the bankrupt Air America?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:12 pm"All Chickenshit Chickenhawk cowardly warmongers should enlist to serve in Iraq to allow those who have already served this stupid war, based on lies"
What lies? Be specific?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:13 pm"Have you served in battle, or did you spend your term hugging a desk. Never mind, we all know the answer - bawk, bawk.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — February 13, 2007 @ 11:57 pm"
And I repeat, did you?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:17 pm"You should ask yourself that every time you post to avoid your constant waste of bandwidth.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — February 13, 2007 @ 11:57 pm"
Really? Is this your way of challenging something that I said? Maybe you should learn how to debate intelligently. Tossing insults is NOT a substitution for an intelligent discussion but it's what I expect from dumb liberals!
February 14th, 2007 at 1:21 pm"Your legacy is obviously avoiding serving in wartime combat, and defend your guilt by attacking those that point out your cowardice. You share a nice legacy, sport.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — February 14, 2007 @ 12:00 am"
I didn't realize you knew so much about my military history. Did you get your hands on my DD214? And I believe I've asked you before, when and where did you serve?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:27 pmGo ahead then pull 'em out.... it's obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the Middle East who understands that our need for energy means you'll only have to put 'em back in sooner than later. Duh, talk about wasting tax payers dollars? Maybe by this time though the Dem's will have succesfully brought back the draft, destroyed the freedom loving all volunteer army and the unpatriotic ingrates will have to sacrafice as well.
February 14th, 2007 at 1:28 pmI have been watching the debate all day yesterday, and all
February 14th, 2007 at 1:29 pmday today. To watch the Republicans continue to Goose Step
in unison, and carry water for the Executive Branch is beyond
pathetic. Almost every Republican that has spoken, has been
quick to use one scare tactic after the other, and one cop out
after the other. They rubber stamped every failed strategy
after the other, for the past 4 years. Now that the writing is
on the wall, and the war of extermination against the Iraqi
people is becoming clear for all to see, they use every lie their
speech writers can concoct, to try to continue to hide the
simple truth, behind the Empire building strategy they have
supported. The simple truth: The Republicans are wading knee
deep in Iraqi blood. These Thugs will use any excuse to stay
in Iraq, and continue to kill, any Iraqi that dares to lift a finger,
against an army of occupation, that is in place at the behest
of Exxon/Mobile/Israel. The sickest excuse the Republicans
use against an end to this farce, "we are fighting them there,
so we don't have to fight them here". So lets understand that
for what it is. The Republicans have decided to fight the Islamist
in a country, that only has Islamist in it, because our army is
there. Sadam would never allow the bastards to gain a foothold
in Iraq, but now the Republicans admit, they are staying in Iraq
to use Iraq like a sponge,to draw the Islamist there. So Iraq is
being used as a surrogate battlefield, and thousands of Iraqi
innocent women and children are dieing there,, so we avoid a
fight with our enemies on our own soil? Rather a cannibalistic
way to fight your enemy. Let Iraqis die by the thousands, to
avoid any hint of danger at home. Who in the hell do the swine
think they are fooling. Obviously, only a fool, or a simpleton,
or a Beast would think such strategy acceptable. Why are
innocent Iraqi deaths so acceptable to these traitors? Perhaps
check their Swiss bank accounts for the answer. The 08 election
is coming. The decent American people of all faiths, need to send these ungodly creatures home, before they start yet another war, on the same pack of lies they used to start the current war of genocide for cash they support so fanatically.
"One of the major reasons some still defend this Administration is, I believe, the guilt those must feel who elected it, cheered it on, denigrated any who tried to oppose it, and now realize what a catastrophic blunder they have enabled.
Comment by Tom Carey — February 14, 2007 @ 12:21 am"
Guilt? Hardly! He was the best man for the job then and still is today. He came into office with a determination to fight terrorism. This is a war which should have begun when Americans were held hostage in Iran. He is the first president since FDR who won't stand for Americans being slaughtered by barbarians! Do you realize that in the 35 years that led up to 9/11 3,000 Americans were killed by terrorists around the world? I know you weaklings want to negotiate with these animals, Bush won't! Thank God!
February 14th, 2007 at 1:35 pm"you lost all credibility, and credibility once lost is never regained
Thanks for playing.
Comment by Wayne — February 14, 2007 @ 12:25 am"
In a debate, when one side claims that the other side has lost their credibility they are admitting to the audience that they have nothing left!
February 14th, 2007 at 1:38 pm"And i notice always evade and never give any real answer. You never ever back up even one of your claims"
First of all what I did in the Navy has NO relivence to this debate! I served for 5 years and I don't dwell on it. What claims don't I back up?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:41 pmSo Mike - creating lots more terrorists, then shipping them 9 billion dollars in cash is a successful fight against terrorism? Leaving Afghanistan to be run by opium kings and the taliban is success? Letting Osama go free is success? You keep the bar real low there, dontcha?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:41 pmSen. Clinton has just made a major speech on the Senate floor stating that Bush needs to remember that he does not have authorization to attack iran.
February 14th, 2007 at 1:42 pmWhere is the map that is mentioned in the letter? It claims to show hundreds of terrorist acts since 2002. Anybody got a copy?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:43 pm"You are a true 30%er. Astounding"
I've seen those pictures before and it doesn't depict anyone being tortured. The only person who seems uncomfortable is algore!
February 14th, 2007 at 1:48 pmFirst of all my MOS has nothing to do with this. When I was in the Navy I wasn’t part of any occupation -- micheal
every occupation in the service has a MOS, even if you played in the military band or were an intellegence officer, all the way down to the private who is an infantryman. everyone, einstein
February 14th, 2007 at 1:57 pmYAY!!!!! GO GO INTERNET GROUP-THINK!!!!
February 14th, 2007 at 2:30 pmMichael,
Do you really think you are gonna change anybodies' minds about Bush and his Iraqi folly?
You have to remember that before the Iraqi nonsense started only about 27% of Americans were against it. Now after nearly 4 years, America is done with it. Only 27% of Americans support the Iraqi folly. Do you really think spending more time money and lives in Iraq is gonna change anything?
You Rightards think we need "victory" in Iraq.
Please explain how you think victory can be achieved, and how long you will think it will take, and how many people need to die.
February 14th, 2007 at 2:36 pmWayne; you are 110 % correct. My MOS(since I was Navy-NEC(naval enlisted classification) was a corpman. I can't remember the # though, it's on my DD-214 which I haven't looked at in years. It was the ONLY MOS/NEC for a CO to be. Since I was effectively drafted, I figured the VC are not buildiing battleships, I went Navy. What I did not know at the time was that Navy corpsmen get to go out in the field with the Marines playing grunt. Too late.
February 14th, 2007 at 2:43 pmTossing insults is NOT a substitution for an intelligent discussion but it’s what I expect from dumb liberals!
Does anyone else see the irony in this statement?
February 14th, 2007 at 3:50 pmIt's nice to know things come and go, but politics never changes.
Wait a minute, that isn't nice to know!
February 14th, 2007 at 5:35 pmMichael, if your lame ass was in the Navy, you would know that it's not our MOS anyone is looking for, but your NEC. Personally, I think the closest you got to the navy was lip-syncing the Village People in your high school follies. Go back to posting on NeoPets you penis wrinkle.
Regards
February 14th, 2007 at 8:27 pm"When I was in the Navy I wasn’t part of any occupation. Although if I was called on to do so, I would have used the skills the Navy trained me in to fulfill my duty." Michael
Aw, Mikey, give yourself more credit. Being a latrine commander is a vital military occupation. No one makes a move without you.
February 14th, 2007 at 8:39 pmAfter so many years of lies, smears, fraud, and corruption anyone who remains a Republican is either a fascist or hatefull authoritarian fool. Neither deserves the respect of debate. They do deserve the be recognized for their threat to democracy.
February 14th, 2007 at 9:23 pmWhat a despicable group of human beings. How rotten, dishonest and putrid.
February 15th, 2007 at 1:34 amThe only person who seems uncomfortable is algore!
Comment by michael — February 14, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
Those pictures were enough to indict the culprits and to convict them.
Clearly more people than just "algore" were uncomfortable.
The fact that you didn't means you need professional help. Or perhaps you are beyond help...
February 15th, 2007 at 2:08 am[...] Think Progress » Leaked Letter Reveals Conservative Strategy For Iraq Debate: Don’t Talk About Ir... The first rule of IRAQ CLUB is don’t talk about IRAQ CLUB. (tags: intelligence media) [...]
February 15th, 2007 at 8:00 amI think all of this liberal/conservative talk is crazy. More than 80% of the American public are against the war in polls. These are Americans, not Democrats and Republicans! Quit trying to make it a left/right debate and realize that conservatives (whats left of us) oppose this war as well.
February 15th, 2007 at 9:27 am[...] Letter Reveals Conservative Strategy For Iraq Debate: Don’t Talk About Iraq http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/13/...vative-letter/ First and foremost, Im sorry to have to put political news in F4A but Ive been told we dont need a [...]
February 15th, 2007 at 11:46 am[...] “If we let Democrats force us into a debate on the surge or the current situation in Iraq, we ... [...]
February 15th, 2007 at 1:28 pmShouldn't the debate be about civilized vs uncivilized cultures? While peopel's problems with Republicans are self-evident (freedom-restricting prudes) the problem with democrats are just as big (money stealing narcissistic opportunists). Don't draw lines, they are all just looking out for their own retirement.
Some comedian once said:
I hate Democrats because I like to spend the money I earn, I hate Republicans because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and porn.
February 15th, 2007 at 1:59 pm[...] Strategy For House Iraq Debate Filed under: Uncategorized — recar @ 2:03 pm Leaked Letter Reveals Conservative Strategy For House Iraq Debate Reps. John Shadegg (R-AZ) and Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) write fellow Republicans: “The debate [...]
February 16th, 2007 at 9:11 am[...] Leaked memo: “Democrats want to force us to focus on defending the surge, making the case that it will work, and explaining why the President’s new Iraq policy is different from prior efforts and therefore justified. We urge you to instead broaden the debate to the threat posed to Americans, the world, and all ‘unbelievers’ by radical Islamists. We would further urge you to join us in educating the American people about the views of Radical Islamists and the consequences of not defeating radical Islam in Iraq. The debate should not be about the surge or its details. this debate should not even be about the Iraq war to date, mistakes that have been made, or whether we can, or cannot, win militarily. If we let Democrats force us into a debate on the surge or the current situation in Iraq, we lose.” [...]
February 16th, 2007 at 2:08 pmI appreciate comment number 179, which notes that opposition to the war is no longer a liberal issue. Conservatives have joined in.
I just hope that the next time we are in a similar situation, the conservatives consider the liberal position a little sooner before many lives are lost.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:18 pm[...] read more | digg story [...]
February 20th, 2007 at 7:11 pm[...] fall because “leading conservative Reps. John Shadegg (R-AZ) and Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) inform their allies: “The debate should not be about the surge or its details. This debate should not even be about [...]
March 31st, 2007 at 5:42 pmNiven
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March 20th, 2008 at 2:49 am